How Do I Become a "Pick-Up" Artist???
Richard Dubois
I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-up"
artist (If such a thing even exists). You see, I have to become one. This
is because I have no friends through which to meet women. But I don't care
about this because women are all I care about, not friends.
How good looking do you have to be to become a pick-up artist? Do you
have to look like a movie star, or just look nice?
How nice does one have to dress? Do you have to be a "flashy" sort of
person?
If you know anyone who is a pick-up artist or if you are one yourself,
please tell me about it. I need all the help I can get! Thanks!
James W. Swonger
In article <Pine.A41.3.95.970903...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu>,
This is all based mostly on observation with a little bit of experience
thrown in, so make of it what you will; no guarantee expressed or implied.
It's a surety that there exist "pick-up artists". You can see them in
action at any local meat market watering hole on a Friday evening. And
this is probably the first lesson - if you want to become one, go where
they go and see, then do what they do. You might think of them and their
quarry in terms of the hunt; observe the means whereby they select, bait
and snare their (usually willing) prey. I can't really distill it for
you, having never been too successful in that environment, but the clues
are there for you to reap.
The lack of friends is a twofold problem. First, you have nobody who
will "set you up", nor provide any verification to the women you might
be interested in that you're not a solitary perverted stalker who brings
his dates home in the trunk. Which may or may not be the case. The other
aspect is that you may well be friendless because you are aloof, prickly
and generally have no social skills or interests other than occasional
sex. If this is the case, you had better learn to fake it. To be a
succesful predator, you first have to master the approach. You must
either attract them to you, or at least get close enough without putting
them to flight. In more human terms, you ought to be able to hold a
conversation on something besides your angst and their physical attributes,
refrain from antisocial bodily functions, and appear healthy and relaxed.
As far as attraction, looks certainly do play a part. The most
successful guys I've observed out there are well groomed. Not any one "look";
long hair, short hair, shave, stubble - doesn't seem to matter. But be
clean, no ratty clothes (unless it's Grunge Night at Club Retro), and I
think the particular "look" needs to be consistent with your role model,
who you think you are. Don't come on like Cary Grant if you're done up
like some heavy metal madman after a week-long tequila binge in a country
where they don't sell soap. Whatever look and persona you select will
appeal to some section of femalekind (and if you're not careful, some
manly boys in shorts and hiking boots). But failure to maintain consistency
will probably repel the one segment you (hopefully) initially attract.
You must attract, then attract, and then attract some more until you
become part of -their- world.
If this is all not just a simple troll, hopefully this will stimulate
some effort and introspection on your part. Perhaps I have been remiss in
encouraging acquisition of skill in someone who appears to have a lack of
perspective and connectedness. It would be much better for you to make
friends - female ones, if you only like women - than to wander through
life like a lonely and frustrated penis with legs. Learning to have and
be a friend will improve you and your love life. My best recommendation
is to turn off your computer, think of something, anything that you
enjoy (or used to, prior to becoming a angstful undergraduate) that
other people (women, hopefully) are likely to also be having fun at
(fun is good; right frame of mind) and go do it, and be friendly and
available and interested meanwhile.
If your love life continues to reek, I'm sure we'll see you here again ;)
--
##########################################################################
#Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons #
#living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-#
#sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!#
Anonymous
"Hunny Pooh" <1no...@post1.com> wrote:
>You don't just pick people up like that.
Actually you can. Well, I can. Maybe you can't.
> If you think you're not handsome,
>don't depend on it.
Handsome is not enough for men. It helps but it is not enough.
> Friends doesn't prevent you from meeting women. You
>want women, make friends with them, but not like grabbing anyone from the
>streets and asking them if they are interested in "making friends" with
>you.
You don't ask outright 'Will you be my friend'
You strike up a conversation. You'd be amazed how simple it is.
> The cyberworld is a good place to look for one. Join clubs,
>activities, etc. The most important thing is not looks, it's your character
>and how you present yourself to others.
That last is true.
And part of your presentation and character is whether you have the guts to
walk right up to someone and introduce yourself.
Try it, you'll like it.
Jackie the Tokeman
Frits van Soldt
Richard Evans wrote:
>
> Richard Dubois (dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu) wrote:
> : I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-up"
> : artist (If such a thing even exists).
>
> I think it probably possable at least to an extent, and I would love
> to learn it myself.
>
> Well so far this is what I've figured out.
>
> It seems to me that most women will be unobtainable, but that is
> definatly not a reason to give up. Women are very selective, and
> even though most will not select you, the ones that do happen to
> select you could be easy to get. So the biggest problem to figure
> out is which women are worth going for. The best I've figured out
> so far is to look out for the signals, and compare the type of
> signals she gives you, to the type of signals she gives other
> guys. If she is more open and friendly with you, than most of
> the others, then that is one worth going for. I'm sure there
> are other things to look out for as well, but that's something
> I've jet to learn.
>
> Next point is when to you approach her. I'm starting to figure
> this one out, but I'm still learning. Women have different moods,
> sometimes they don't want to be bothered, sometimes they like
> company, and sometimes they feel sexey. Obviously the best
> approach depends on what mood she is in. I have heard recently
> times that there is a particular time of the month when women
> feel far more sexey than usual. Well I'm not sure how much truth
> there is in this, but it sounds very plausable. So how do you
> recognise this time. I havn't had a chance to try it yet, but
> I've noticed that a girl I know reasonably well seems to have
> very different moods at different times, and I intend to start
> looking for a pattern, to try and figure out how long her cycle
> is and at what point to start pushing things foward. I don't
> know whether this will work as I've only been thinking about it
> for about 3 weeks, which isn't long enough to see any patterns.
>
> Finally how to approach her. Well yet again I've still a lot to
> learn here, but I have found that if she is in a sexy mood she
> likes things like being gently stroked, or squeezed, or geltly
> rocked when you hug her. If she is not feeling that way, but is
> feeling friendly, then I'd go for either a friendly chat, or
> a friendly hug if you can get away with it.
>
> Well there are a few things I've figured out. I'm not saying
> I'm rite about all of this, so decide for yourself what which
> bits fit in with your own experiences.
>
> I'd better get back to work now.
>
> Byee...
>
> Richard.
This guy is a complete joke. He sounds like he is observing
some wildlife species. Don't listen to him. How about
just being yourself, try to be friends with a woman and see what comes
out of it but most important of all, treat her like a HUMAN BEING and
not some kind of animal.
Frits
Looking for patterns,
Etherman
Frits van Soldt <fso...@caiw.nl> wrote in article
<340F2A...@caiw.nl>...
> This guy is a complete joke. He sounds like he is observing
> some wildlife species. Don't listen to him. How about
> just being yourself, try to be friends with a woman and see what comes
> out of it but most important of all, treat her like a HUMAN BEING and
> not some kind of animal.
> Frits
>
> Looking for patterns,
This approach usually fails. Women want men who are "do-ers" not
"wait-ers." Don't wait for opportunities, make them. If you're not looking
for friendship don't accept it and hope that it later changes to what you
wanted in the first place.
--
Etherman
The Internet's sole purpose is to get porn and
bomb making plans into the hands of children.
Etherman
Richard Dubois <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.A41.3.95.970903...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu>...
> I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-up"
> artist (If such a thing even exists). You see, I have to become one. This
> is because I have no friends through which to meet women. But I don't
care
> about this because women are all I care about, not friends.
> How good looking do you have to be to become a pick-up artist? Do you
> have to look like a movie star, or just look nice?
> How nice does one have to dress? Do you have to be a "flashy" sort of
> person?
> If you know anyone who is a pick-up artist or if you are one yourself,
> please tell me about it. I need all the help I can get! Thanks!
I'm not a pick-up artist, but I can look at my past and know what not to
do.
Basically the key is attitude. You have to project confidence. If you
have confidence in yourself, so will others. If you don't have confidence
you need to figure out how to get some (I have no clue so don't ask me
how). Smile, but don't leer. Look into her eyes, but don't stare. I've
read
that when you're attracted to someone your pupils dilate (something that
can't be controlled). So watch out for that (probably difficult to see if
you're in a nightclub or bar). You want to invade her space, but not be in
her face. Make sure your body is relaxed. Learn to dance. It's a big
help if you have money. You want to look sharp (use your judgment here,
you'll probably come off as an idiot if you wear a tux to a bar). You also
have to have good verbal skills. If you can't hold a conversation you're
going to look like a loser. Speed Seduction will probably help to a certain
extent: http://www.seduction.com
Neil Koomen
Richard Dubois wrote:
>
> I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-up"
> artist (If such a thing even exists). You see, I have to become one.
Why? Will you get arrested if you don't? But seriously...
> This
> is because I have no friends through which to meet women. But I don't care
> about this because women are all I care about, not friends.
Friends of both sexes are often an excellent route to meeting women.
If you can't think of women as friends, too bad for you.
BTW, you might want to look a thread in alt.romance called "terminal
issues," in which the unattractiveness of friendless people was
discussed.
> How good looking do you have to be to become a pick-up artist? Do you
> have to look like a movie star, or just look nice?
> How nice does one have to dress? Do you have to be a "flashy" sort of
> person?
False to all of the above.
> If you know anyone who is a pick-up artist or if you are one yourself,
> please tell me about it. I need all the help I can get! Thanks!
I never thought of myself as a "pick-up artist," but I can tell you a
way that helped me meet a lot of friendly women:
When I was single, I eventually decided that there was no reason not to
try to meet people I thought were attractive.
So I'd often smile, walk up to a woman, and say something like, "I
thought you were an attractive woman, and I just wanted to come over and
say hello for a second, my name is (my name here) and you are... ?"
I didn't do this with every single woman, but pretty often. Met a lot of
very nice women. I was never brushed off a single time!
And I'm no movie star, I can assure you. The most important thing is to
just to be friendly, break the ice, and swap names. There's no magic
formula.
Within a few months, I got into a relationship; later, we married. Met
her at a church dinner for singles.
John Fereira
In article <01bcba20$05f6a020$0fd3...@etherman.mdc.net>,
"Etherman" <ethe...@mdc.net> wrote:
>
>
>Richard Dubois <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote in article
><Pine.A41.3.95.970903...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu>...
>> is because I have no friends through which to meet women. But I don't
>care
>> about this because women are all I care about, not friends.
>> have to look like a movie star, or just look nice?
>> How nice does one have to dress? Do you have to be a "flashy" sort of
>> person?
>> please tell me about it. I need all the help I can get! Thanks!
>
>do.
>Basically the key is attitude. You have to project confidence. If you
>have confidence in yourself, so will others. If you don't have confidence
>you need to figure out how to get some (I have no clue so don't ask me
>how).
Ironically, one of the best ways to achieve confidence is to
not attempt to pick up women but instead just focus on meeting
people and make friends. The chances that you're going to
pick up someone are generally much less then meeting and making
friends with someone. Change you goals and you won't fail nearly
as often and as a result your confidence will increase.
You want to invade her space, but not be in
>her face. Make sure your body is relaxed. Learn to dance.
Learning to dance might only help if you'rr meeting women in
dance clubs. There are lots of other places to meet women.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
I l y a
alyoung (aly...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: Richard Dubois <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
: > I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-up"
: >artist (If such a thing even exists). You see, I have to become one. This
: >is because I have no friends through which to meet women. But I don't care
: >about this because women are all I care about, not friends.
: > How good looking do you have to be to become a pick-up artist? Do you
: >have to look like a movie star, or just look nice?
: > How nice does one have to dress? Do you have to be a "flashy" sort of
: >person?
: > If you know anyone who is a pick-up artist or if you are one yourself,
: >please tell me about it. I need all the help I can get! Thanks!
: Here's what you do: get a bottle of hand lotion, and go to bed. Because
: with this attitude, that's what you're going to end up doing anyway.
:
: Here's a little clue (and you sound like you really need one): a "good
: woman" (ie intelligent, socially interactive, attractive, etc) tends to be
: looking for the same in a man. So develop a personality, make some
: friends, get a life... and worry about the women later.
That is an excellent advice you might consider yourself.
ILya
Jeffrey Haber
alyoung wrote:
>
> Here's what you do: get a bottle of hand lotion, and go to bed. Because
> with this attitude, that's what you're going to end up doing anyway.
>
> Here's a little clue (and you sound like you really need one): a "good
> woman" (ie intelligent, socially interactive, attractive, etc) tends to be
> looking for the same in a man. So develop a personality, make some
> friends, get a life... and worry about the women later.
>
> amy
And how would you like it if the situation were reversed?
What if young women were not in tremendous demand, did not have a great
many opportunities to have relationships with men, and could not satisfy
their sexual desires when they wanted to? What if you received no phone
calls asking you for dates, were never treated to dinner, etc?
How would you feel if someone said "don't try to attract men, just wait
until you are older and earning a good income, then the women will be
willing to exchange their sexuality for your income" ? It's quite
possible that this person's actual, non-internet personality is just
fine and no worse than that of the women his age whom he'd like to
attract.
Why should young "nice guys" sit around celibate until one day they get
lucky and a woman finds them attractive? Meanwhile, the women their age
get to have all the fun and gain all the relationship experience
regardless of whether or not they have good personalities, while the
"nice guys" sit home and masturbate.
Much better advice would be to tell him to work hard to learn what is
attractive to women--not what women say is attractive to them, but what
they actually respond to, and to then go out and attain those qualities.
Of course, he should develop a strong, virtuous character as well, but
he'll also need a knowledge of how to approach women as well.
Jeffrey Haber
http://www.sb.fsu.edu/~haber
Anonymous
merli...@aol.com (Merlin5559) wrote:
>In article <8e072b2bfbdce68d...@anon.efga.org>, Anonymous
><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:
>>Sad? That doesn't even make sense. Obvious? As in you obviously want to
>>meet the person you're introducing yourself to? Well duh!
>>Are you supposed to pretend not to be interested at all? Try that and guess
>>what - she'll assume you're not interested and lose interest!
>>
> Just relating my experience, how old are you son?
So am I.
If you find that introducing yourself to women doesn't work that is your
problem.
>>> Just give a little love to
>>>everyone you meet, it nearly always comes back.
>>
>>That's a different issue. If you introduce yourself to more people you have
>>even more opportunities.
>>Waiting to run into the right person by chance is strictly for losers.
>
> There is no such thing as chance.
If that's so figure out a perfect system for winning the lottery and get
back to me.
Jackie the Tokeman
I l y a
Jeffrey Haber (ha...@sb.fsu.edu) wrote:
: > This is all based mostly on observation with a little bit of experience
: > thrown in, so make of it what you will; no guarantee expressed or implied.
: >
: > It's a surety that there exist "pick-up artists". You can see them in
: > action at any local meat market watering hole on a Friday evening. And
: > this is probably the first lesson - if you want to become one, go where
: > they go and see, then do what they do. You might think of them and their
: > quarry in terms of the hunt; observe the means whereby they select, bait
: > and snare their (usually willing) prey. I can't really distill it for
: > you, having never been too successful in that environment, but the clues
: > are there for you to reap.
:
:
: I think that overall you've given him good advice.
:
:
: > The lack of friends is a twofold problem. First, you have nobody who
: > will "set you up", nor provide any verification to the women you might
: > be interested in that you're not a solitary perverted stalker who brings
: > his dates home in the trunk.
:
:
: Now hold on a second--the point of being a "pickup artist" is that you
: do not have to rely on your friends, family, or anyone to create a
: romantic opportunity for you; you create your own opportunities. That
: means approaching women you've never seen before in all kinds of
: situations, striking up conversations, and getting phone numbers.
Not only, that but the most essential part is making the relationship
last. You can strike up a successful conversation, get a phone number,
become an expert pick up artist but if it does not last, I see it as a
failure. As plain as that.
Ilya
Daniel Hatherland
Count Zero wrote:
> =
> Hi you out there
> =
> On Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:37:01 -0500, Richard Dubois
> <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> =
> > I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-=
up"
> >artist (If such a thing even exists). You see, I have to become one.
> =
> Come on guys..... you all know
> =
> either you are one....
> .. or not.
> =
> .... and that=B4s it.......
> =
> sorry, but I think anything else is a story
> IMHO
> =
> The Count
> =
> PS.:
> Women are ususally able to look behind this disguises...... cause they
> know very well how to disguise themselves ..... ?
> Or at least better than we do.......
Yo,
So you wanna be a pick-up artist? Yes, you have to be
semi-attractive--not necessarily like a movie star. First, join a gym
if you already haven't. Workout regularly until you get a body with
some muscles and tone. A good body is very important. Don't neglect
this area, because a pick-up involves a lot of "body language." Wear
clothes that look good on YOU--not necessarily clothes that are the
latest fad. When you pick-up on girls, always have an opener and a
closer--even if you get rejected. Remember, always get the last word
in. Be somewhat arrogant (confident), don't play the nice guy. Talk
like you have everything going for you--even if you don't. Girls don't
like losers or shyness. Don't hang around them to much, go in for the
kill and get out quickly (get their number and split). Be in CONTROL of
the situation, always. And most important, play the numbers game. Come
on to as many girls as you can. At one time in my life, i was hitting
on at least one chick a day (whether at work, school, etc). If you play
the numbers game consistently, you will be doing what investors refer to
as "hedging." That is, your losses will be offset by your gains.
Count Zero
Hi you out there
On Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:37:01 -0500, Richard Dubois
<dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-up"
>artist (If such a thing even exists). You see, I have to become one.
Come on guys..... you all know
either you are one....
.. or not.
.... and thatæ„€ it.......
sorry, but I think anything else is a story
IMHO
The Count
alyoung
In article <34119F...@sb.fsu.edu>, Jeffrey Haber <ha...@sb.fsu.edu> wrote:
>And how would you like it if the situation were reversed?
>
>What if young women were not in tremendous demand, did not have a great
>many opportunities to have relationships with men, and could not satisfy
>their sexual desires when they wanted to? What if you received no phone
>calls asking you for dates, were never treated to dinner, etc?
What planet are you living on?
Young men are in just as much demand as young women. The two sort of go
together, you know. The vast majority of relationships are between people
with less than 5 years age difference.
>How would you feel if someone said "don't try to attract men, just wait
>until you are older and earning a good income, then the women will be
>willing to exchange their sexuality for your income" ?
God, I never said that! Rather I said just the opposite; instead of
trying to put on some "flash" or find the best pickup line, the poster
should develop HIS LIFE. His interests, his friends, his personality, his
intellect... THESE are what women of like composition are interested in.
Yes, it's important to make the most of your looks (take a bath, learn to
come your hair, dress nicely) too, but if you want a person to *share a
relationship with you* then dropping the search for the one big
all true answer of HOW is the first step!
>possible that this person's actual, non-internet personality is just
>fine and no worse than that of the women his age whom he'd like to
>attract.
If that were so, he probably wouldn't be posting here, now would he?
The problem may very well be that this personal has no social skills, or
is looking for something that he isn't going to find. The latter occurs a
lot; men sit around and bitch that they can't find a "good" woman, when
that's not what they want at all. They want some Barbie wanna be with no
brains and huge tits to totter around behind them and worship their cock
and not talk back. Problem is... this kind of woman probably only wants
money. You want a whore, you gotta pay for one, it's pretty simple.
Men often bitch (to their single female friends, no less) that "all woman
want is assholes." What they really mean is, "All those pretty Barbie look
alike woman I see in bars and want to stick my dick in want are assholes."
For every man bitching about women wanting assholes, there is a woman
complaining that all a man wants is a pretty bitch.
When people (of both sexes) drop the stupid self pitying focus on the
negative (which really is a small slice of the population) and get on with
their lives and create themselves as an independent, happy, fulfilled,
interesting people is when they'll realize that hey... MANY people like
them (regardless of looks or money).
If you sit around at home going, "Geez I'm an ugly loser, who would want
to date me" then why on earth would anyone want to date you?
>Why should young "nice guys" sit around celibate until one day they get
>lucky and a woman finds them attractive? Meanwhile, the women their age
>get to have all the fun and gain all the relationship experience
>regardless of whether or not they have good personalities, while the
>"nice guys" sit home and masturbate.
Oh give me a fucking break. There are just as many women who are sitting
at home lonely, too, and many of them because so many men want a woman
that looks like a model. Well guess what, out of the few billion women in
the world, only a small handful look like models.
>Much better advice would be to tell him to work hard to learn what is
>attractive to women--not what women say is attractive to them, but what
>they actually respond to, and to then go out and attain those qualities.
>
>Of course, he should develop a strong, virtuous character as well, but
>he'll also need a knowledge of how to approach women as well.
I don't think building a formula of leisure suit colors and pick up lines
is going to do that!
My post, while rather flip and hot, basically said what women find
attractive: independent, creative men with their own minds and strong
personalities.
amy
--
amy young-leith http://php.indiana.edu/~alyoung
aly...@indiana.edu *Speaking only for myself*
Kevin S Douglas
> Richard Dubois wrote:
> >
> > I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-up"
> > is because I have no friends through which to meet women. But I don't care
> > about this because women are all I care about, not friends.
If you don't care about friends then you're desperate or a jackass or both.
Great friends are like gold. There is nothing else which can improve your
life in all areas, career, romance, etc. But that's not the question you
asked, I'll take my shot at yours:
1) the most important quality to being a pick up artist is being able to start
a conversation with someone you don't know. That's not really so hard, most
people like to talk, the trick is coming up with an angle so you can break
through. Practice, that's all I can suggest.
2) great looks do help because if she's attracted to you it doesn't really
matter much what you say, the chemistry is instantaneous and you'll figure
out whether it's going to work in the first five minutes. Pick up artists
are also good at cutting and running when they figure out it isn't going
to work.
3) you're really after a certain kind of woman, it's not the case that if
you develop these skills you can head to the supermarket and get any woman
you want. It's almost the opposite, in any public area there might be one
or two women who might interest you and are susceptable to this sort of thing.
Your task is to figure out who they are.
Which isn't really that hard. Is she single (you can usually figure that
out by the way she dresses). Has she "had it" in a while (you can even
figure that out by the way she responds to you). Is she suggestable (you
can find that out by the way she talks, suggestable people are usually
reactive).
If she's all three and attracted to you you're home free. Can you see
how important this part is? You're looking at a "pick up" as if you're
a salesman doing a cold call. That's not reallly how it works, you can
figure out if she's interested before it's going to work before you
ever get to the "pick up" part.
Then it's just a question of following up. Or rather leading her to where
she already wants to go. If you can finesse that part you've got it made.
Final question: are you sure this is a good investment of your time?
Aren't you better off making great friends? You'll get a better return.
PS. Wonder how many of the guys who are giving advice have actually
picked up women in the past couple of years. I've done it twice. They
make terrible relationships. The common denominator of "pick up artists",
by the way, is they're clingy and needy, the opposite of what they first
project. You're much better off developing your life to the point where
you're confident, then you really can have your pick of single woman
in a room (because you'll be exactly who you say you are and you'll have
the friends to back it up, that's the best position).
PPS. The question you should have asked, in my opinion, is, "How can I make
quality friends?" Funny how no one ever asks that one.
Etherman
alyoung <aly...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in article
<5v10qt$p4i$1...@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu>...
> Oh give me a fucking break. There are just as many women who are sitting
> at home lonely, too, and many of them because so many men want a woman
> that looks like a model. Well guess what, out of the few billion women in
> the world, only a small handful look like models.
That's funny. I've known plenty of women who were fat/ugly and none
of them have trouble getting dates. I've also known many men of varying
degrees of attractiveness who find it difficult to get dates.
Etherman
John Fereira <ja...@cornell.edu> wrote in article
<5uq8k0$h...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>...
> In article <01bcba20$05f6a020$0fd3...@etherman.mdc.net>,
> "Etherman" <ethe...@mdc.net> wrote:
> >I'm not a pick-up artist, but I can look at my past and know what not to
> >do.
> >Basically the key is attitude. You have to project confidence. If you
> >have confidence in yourself, so will others. If you don't have
confidence
> >you need to figure out how to get some (I have no clue so don't ask me
> >how).
>
> Ironically, one of the best ways to achieve confidence is to
> not attempt to pick up women but instead just focus on meeting
> people and make friends. The chances that you're going to
> pick up someone are generally much less then meeting and making
> friends with someone. Change you goals and you won't fail nearly
> as often and as a result your confidence will increase.
Every time I've met people and become friends I've killed any chance
for sex. And it hasn't helped my confidence any.
> > You want to invade her space, but not be in
> > her face. Make sure your body is relaxed. Learn to dance.
>
> Learning to dance might only help if you'rr meeting women in
> dance clubs. There are lots of other places to meet women.
I suspect that clubs is where he'll go even though in my experience
it's a terrible place to meet people.
alyoung
In article <01bcbcc6$07c92320$05d3...@etherman.mdc.net>,
Etherman <ethe...@mdc.net> wrote:
>
>That's funny. I've known plenty of women who were fat/ugly and none
>of them have trouble getting dates. I've also known many men of varying
>degrees of attractiveness who find it difficult to get dates.
I look around and see a little bit of each. Chances are you are
conveniently overlooking whatever classification doesn't mesh with your
theory.
Etherman
Anonymous <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in article
<3590aebff9f238a3...@anon.efga.org>...
> merli...@aol.com (Merlin5559) wrote:
> > There is no such thing as chance.
>
> If that's so figure out a perfect system for winning the lottery and get
> back to me.
> Jackie the Tokeman
I got one. Play every combination of numbers ;-)
Kevin S Douglas
Etherman wrote:
> Every time I've met people and become friends I've killed any chance
> for sex. And it hasn't helped my confidence any.
>
I agree. There's this weird window of opportunity (the time varies) where a guy
has to show he's interested in her sexually or she'll make it a friendship. Once
that happens it's not impossible to change but very difficult.
Gil G. Silberman
On 8 Sep 1997 14:07:25 GMT, aly...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (alyoung)
wrote:
>>What if you [a woman] received no phone
>>calls asking you for dates, were never treated to dinner, etc?
>What planet are you living on?
Last time I checked we were on Planet Funk.
>Young men are in just as much demand as young women. The two sort of go
>together, you know. The vast majority of relationships are between people
>with less than 5 years age difference.
This is the mothership calling. The female of the species is more
desirable than the male. Most guys know the lyrics to that one. If
you want the chord charts, I can give you a lesson or two in numbers.
>God, I never said that! Rather I said just the opposite; instead of
>trying to put on some "flash" or find the best pickup line, the poster
>should develop HIS LIFE.
Yes. Having a life is good. It's also a lot more work than some of
the easy, practical things one can do -- particularly if there is a
specific shortcoming like bad hygene. Many women who protest loudly
that money doesn't matter are the ones who are most fascinated by it.
If I could have a dime for every hippy chick who yells, hollers, and
giggles down skyline drive in a stranger's porsche, I'd havet, uh, at
least two dimes.
>>possible that this person's actual, non-internet personality is just
>>fine and no worse than that of the women his age whom he'd like to
>>attract.
>If that were so, he probably wouldn't be posting here, now would he?
What are you doing here Amy? What am I doing here? Perhaps we are
just bored.
>The problem may very well be that this personal has no social skills, or
>is looking for something that he isn't going to find. The latter occurs a
>lot; men sit around and bitch that they can't find a "good" woman, when
>that's not what they want at all. They want some Barbie wanna be with no
>brains and huge tits. . .
Stop right there! Women are more fascinated by having big tits than
men. Many women have a complex about their chest size, and then they
blame men for it. At least we men take responsibility for our own
obsession with body part size.
> to totter around behind them and worship their cock
>and not talk back. Problem is... this kind of woman probably only wants
>money. You want a whore, you gotta pay for one, it's pretty simple.
Your cynicism, however, is very sexy. . .
>Men often bitch (to their single female friends, no less) that "all woman
>want is assholes." What they really mean is, "All those pretty Barbie look
>alike woman I see in bars and want to stick my dick in want are assholes."
Ooh baby.
>For every man bitching about women wanting assholes, there is a woman
>complaining that all a man wants is a pretty bitch.
I love it when you whine about whining.
>Oh give me a fucking break. There are just as many women who are sitting
>at home lonely, too, and many of them because so many men want a woman
>that looks like a model. Well guess what, out of the few billion women in
>the world, only a small handful look like models.
You do have a point. There are many women who can't get dates. . . .
many beautiful women included. . . . And you are right on target that
male whining and female whining are both useless.
>My post, while rather flip and hot, basically said what women find
>attractive: independent, creative men with their own minds and strong
>personalities.
Yes. There is a practical side too. And then, what would you tell a
guy who is dependent, inhibited, mild? Give up on women? Or start
with a program? You can't run a marathon until you buy some running
shoes.
>amy
Gil G. Silberman
On Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:37:01 -0500, Richard Dubois
<dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-up"
>artist (If such a thing even exists). You see, I have to become one. This
>is because I have no friends through which to meet women. But I don't care
>about this because women are all I care about, not friends.
> How good looking do you have to be to become a pick-up artist? Do you
>have to look like a movie star, or just look nice?
> How nice does one have to dress? Do you have to be a "flashy" sort of
>person?
> If you know anyone who is a pick-up artist or if you are one yourself,
>please tell me about it. I need all the help I can get! Thanks!
What are you after?
You want to "meet women" but acknowledge that you have no friends.
What do you want to do with these women after you meet them? I'm
serious here. "Fucking" is not a good answer. I mean, that's part of
the picture, but what do you really want? A steady girlfriend?
Marriage? Companionship? Sex? Dates?
If you are using women as a surrogate for emptiness in other parts of
your life (eg no friends, no hobbies), I doubt that you will be
successful with women, and even if you are it will not make you happy.
You will disappoint a lot of women and make them too bitter to deal
with the next guy.
Okay, with that in mind, you asked how to pick up women. Think for a
minute, what makes a woman interesting to you? Pretend a woman has
just asked you how to pick up men, and you have to answer the question
in reverse. Is it her hair? Her personality? Her body? Her looks?
Her attitude? Or is it just being at the right place, in the right
mood, at the right time. You will probably find that there are as
many ways to create interest as there are people in the world. There
is no single answer.
I know a few "pick up artists." They are not necessarily great
looking. They tend to be smart and clever rather than rich. They are
interesting. If they were a movie, they would be a summer
blockbuster. Lots of fun, and not too heavy.
What else? The most important thing to keep in mind is that seduction
is a whole body experience. . . . Meaning, flashiness and brilliance
at one particular move, one aspect, doesn't do you a damn bit of good
unless you are reasonably competent at every stage of the game.
How many steps are there between the bar counter and the bed? You
have to get out of the house, go to the right places, talk to
strangers, make a good first impression, get or dispense phone
numbers, make people remember you, convince them to go out with you,
interest them, treat them well, create a romantic atmosphere, know
when they are ready for more, know how to seduce and respond to
seduction, be good in bed, and memorable the morning after.
That's just a few. Each of these is a big topic and takes lots of
experience, ability. . . you could talk until you're blue, for
instance, on the moment before a first kiss. If you fail at any point
along the way, it won't happen. There are plenty of aggressive men
who get lots of dates but are complete losers when they are out on a
date. There are guys who sleep around a lot but are selfish and lousy
in bed. There are great looking men who are too shy and boring.
Personally I could never be a pick up artist. I am too shy and
serious. The people I see around me who are good at meeting strangers
have an ability to play games they don't care about, to project an
intriguing detatchment that some call "cockiness," to say the corniest
come-on lines in a way that makes people think they're adorable. This
comes with a price. They end up spending long fake evenings with and
blowing money trying to impress women that they despise, and some of
them are so fake they don't even know they don't like the woman.
People like me -- most people -- find it easier to meet others through
friends, at small parties, dinners, through work. . . to like a person
before they become interested.
Okay. Here are a few practical pointers. Ready for a list?
1. Dress well, for the circumstance. Usually it is more
important to dress confidently than in any flashy trendy or expensive
way. You must feel good in your clothes and be proud of how you are,
even a bit cocky. There must be one or two shirts in your closet that
make you happy to wear. Also, good shoes and a good haircut -- good
sunglasses and watch if you are into it, a good jacket in cold weather
-- make you feel good. It is not the clothes but how you wear them.
2. Have confidence. You must think that you are the sort of
person that a woman would like. If not, go home and develop a life
until you are there.
3. Be straightforward, not sneaky. None of this sulking,
whiny, self-pitying behavior. No making women into madonnas or
objects of worship, obsequious praise, disdain, or anything weird.
That's all for later, once you are in one of those ridiculous
exercises in mutual insanity that people call a relationship. For now
you are out there having fun. Laugh with the jokes, but do not become
a clown. Be dignified without being dour. Do not put anyone down --
you, her, or other people -- for the sake of being cool.
4. Find some things you like and that you can talk about.
There must be interesting things about yourself that you can share.
5. Listen. Most women love it when you care about who they
are.
6. Take showers, wash your hair, try not to smell, take care
of your body, brush your teeth, and do not track mud into the room.
7. You cannot change your looks easily, but you can change
your attitude. 90% of looks is the expression you wear on your face,
and your body posture.
8. Learn body language. Be aware of your situation.
That's enough for now.
Heaven help the women if this works.
Paul Graham
Richard,
I assume you are a student and want to meet girls...
Use the 3 step method:
1. Take dance lessons - Ballroom, C&W and MWSD
2. Read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"
3. Read "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom"
How it works:
Step 1 will give you a really good reason for approaching your quary.
Just ask her to dance... If you're any good she'll want to dance
with you again. Other females will see you on the dance floor and
will be more than willing to dance with you.
Step 2 will teach you how to communicate with females.
Step 3 will teach you some very necessary skills. If you can learn how
to
drive a female up-the-walls and give her an orgasm that lasts for
20 minutes - she WILL be back for more and more and more...
ATTITUDE is of utmost importance...
You must be confident... A look of desperation will get you
no-where.
Be patient...
Don't rush... Most females will require 3 meetings with you to
decide whether they want to or not.
A couple more things...
Keep yourself in fairly good physical shape - a four hour stint
of lovemaking requires ENDURANCE...
Don't consume much alcohol when on a date... You can't perform
when you've had too much to drink...
Happy hunting,
Paul
MSA
Before this question can really be answered you must define your
intent.
If your intention is to have simple sex and not see the woman afterward
most likely you will be involved in a situation with drinking college
students, strippers, middle-age women, or ugly women at a bar. They
will go for looks and it is not difficult to get them. Just be
friendly and somewhat arrogant and touch them a lot and ask them over
to your place before the place closes. And remember to keep protection
with you since if you don't you will have a mindset against the
situation to begin with (remember it is best to be prepared).
If your intention is to have a relationship it is almost impossible to
do without an environment. You will need a group of friends or a
situation where you "run into" the woman constantly. With your
inexperience you will have to be brave and don't be afraid to touch her
even if the environment seems uncomfortable. It will be important to
remain focused and most of all do NOT masturbate.
If you have to ask, I wouldn't recommend that you try to just find
someone in a one shot unless you really are feeling attracted. That
sort of thing is best left to someone with a good feeling for chemistry
and requires much experience. Unless of course you are more qualified
than the woman (also there are instances when women can't find someone
at their level (this is rare and you could end up in a mental
institution if you play around with someone too high for you)).
To get experience you will have to go through many women. Try to win
their game (you won't win, but you will gain experience).
In <3414b989...@snews.zippo.com> big...@hooked.net (Gil G.
John Fereira
In article <01bcbcc6$c734bd00$05d3...@etherman.mdc.net>,
"Etherman" <ethe...@mdc.net> wrote:
>
>
>John Fereira <ja...@cornell.edu> wrote in article
><5uq8k0$h...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>...
>> In article <01bcba20$05f6a020$0fd3...@etherman.mdc.net>,
>> "Etherman" <ethe...@mdc.net> wrote:
>> >I'm not a pick-up artist, but I can look at my past and know what not to
>> >do.
>> >Basically the key is attitude. You have to project confidence. If you
>> >have confidence in yourself, so will others. If you don't have
>confidence
>> >you need to figure out how to get some (I have no clue so don't ask me
>> >how).
>>
>> Ironically, one of the best ways to achieve confidence is to
>> not attempt to pick up women but instead just focus on meeting
>> people and make friends. The chances that you're going to
>> pick up someone are generally much less then meeting and making
>> friends with someone. Change you goals and you won't fail nearly
>> as often and as a result your confidence will increase.
>
>for sex. And it hasn't helped my confidence any.
Was your goal just to meet people and make friends or was your
goal to get laid, but you thought you'd try to become friends
first? There's a difference.
>
>> > You want to invade her space, but not be in
>> > her face. Make sure your body is relaxed. Learn to dance.
>>
>> Learning to dance might only help if you'rr meeting women in
>> dance clubs. There are lots of other places to meet women.
>
>I suspect that clubs is where he'll go even though in my experience
>it's a terrible place to meet people.
Someone that meets people and makes friends easily can meet someone
just about anywhere. A night club with loud music and a meat market
atmosphere probably isn't the best place but there are many other
kinds of bars where socializing is more of a focus then picking up
each other. Those kinds of places are generally quite good for
meeting people.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
Etherman
John Fereira <ja...@cornell.edu> wrote in article
<5v3a8p$s...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>...
> In article <01bcbcc6$c734bd00$05d3...@etherman.mdc.net>,
> "Etherman" <ethe...@mdc.net> wrote:
> >Every time I've met people and become friends I've killed any chance
> >for sex. And it hasn't helped my confidence any.
>
> Was your goal just to meet people and make friends or was your
> goal to get laid, but you thought you'd try to become friends
> first? There's a difference.
Actually I don't really think in terms of goals. If I become friends
with someone it's not because I planned it. It either just happens
or it doesn't. I've never tried to get laid by being friends first. I
try to be honest so I wouldn't try such an underhanded trick. Besides,
given my track record, I have little faith in the theory that women want
to be friends first and then lovers.
Jeffrey Haber
Kevin S Douglas wrote:
> PS. Wonder how many of the guys who are giving advice have actually
> picked up women in the past couple of years. I've done it twice. They
> make terrible relationships. The common denominator of "pick up artists",
> by the way, is they're clingy and needy, the opposite of what they first
> project. You're much better off developing your life to the point where
> you're confident, then you really can have your pick of single woman
> in a room (because you'll be exactly who you say you are and you'll have
> the friends to back it up, that's the best position).
Hi Kevin,
It's great to see someone else out there who can give good advice whom
I might actually be able to learn something from.
Anyway, I've never really had a date from a "blind" pickup, but I've
had many from local printed personal ads I've placed (my way of "doing
business" in this market). I haven't had enough experience with
relationships formed from them to answer your question, though.
However, I do think that a good relationship is possible from that
venue; I met many women who were intelligent and to whom I was
attracted. So, I think it's possible. I've been out of the market for
two years since I'm now living with my girlfriend, whom I was set up
with; that's worked out pretty well.
Being able to pick someone up can help lead you to a good relationship
if you play the numbers game and select women who you want.
If nothing else, you could satisfy your sexual desires (if you knew what
do after you've picked them up) and gain experience with women (bad
relationships, etc.), so, it might not all be a waste, and it is
possible that a good relationship can form. I'm sure that hundreds of
thousands of couples can attest to that.
Jeffrey Haber
http://www.sb.fsu.edu/~haber
alyoung
In article <3414c1ff...@snews.zippo.com>,
Gil G. Silberman <big...@hooked.net> wrote:
[...]
>Yes. Having a life is good. It's also a lot more work than some of
>the easy, practical things one can do -- particularly if there is a
>specific shortcoming like bad hygene.
I sort of assumed what most people consider the obvious. Don't walk
around with gaping sores, lice, or two week old body odor. How's that for
advice? ;)
>Many women who protest loudly
>that money doesn't matter are the ones who are most fascinated by it.
>If I could have a dime for every hippy chick who yells, hollers, and
>giggles down skyline drive in a stranger's porsche, I'd havet, uh, at
>least two dimes.
Like most other traits, money does play a part. If I had for some odd
reason the choice of two men who were identical in desirable traits such
as intellect, sense of humor, compassion, etc and one was broke and one
was rich, I'd probably be drawn to the one that was rich. That's just
me... and I can further say I've never dated a man just for money, nor
could I ever see doing it.
Most men I know don't want a woman who is going to be a drain on their
wallet and little more. The same goes for women... I want a life
*partner*, not a large child I have to support. The men I talk to want the
same... it's not that hard to understand that some concerned can span both
sides of the fence.
>Stop right there! Women are more fascinated by having big tits than
>men. Many women have a complex about their chest size, and then they
>blame men for it. At least we men take responsibility for our own
>obsession with body part size.
While these situations can be chicken or egg spirals of questioning, you
surely cannot be suggesting that through time, the preference of "men" in
general has not been towards large breasted women? If not, then explain
why every woman in most skin magazines has breast implants.
>Your cynicism, however, is very sexy. . .
Thanks. It's far from my best quality.
>>For every man bitching about women wanting assholes, there is a woman
>>complaining that all a man wants is a pretty bitch.
>
>I love it when you whine about whining.
I'm not whining, I'm pointing out how rediculous most people and their
situations are. I've listened to more than one man bitch about how he
cannot find a "good woman" who then wanted to walk up and hug me and
commiserate... Um, excuse me, what was I? Oh, wait, that's right, I was a
"friend" and men don't want to date friends. I've heard male friends tell
other female friends how they wish they could find a woman "like you/her."
Geez.
Hey, wait a minute! That sounds like a "nice guy" story I heard on here
recently, just reverse the genders!
Point being the attempt to paint one sex or the other as the sad victim in
this cruel world is stupid.
>
>Yes. There is a practical side too. And then, what would you tell a
>guy who is dependent, inhibited, mild? Give up on women? Or start
>with a program? You can't run a marathon until you buy some running
>shoes.
You have to realize that to get certain things you have to go through the
prerequisites. They aren't always natural, or easy, or what not, but if
you want to get to point Z and the only way to get there is to go thorugh
points X and Y, quit bitching and start walking.
It's hard to met people, and thus meet potential mates, if you sit at home
playing Quake all night long, every night. Fact. You have to buckle down
and work hard to improve your social skills, develop a life (full of
interests, friends, etc) and then your chances will improve greatly.
Jeffrey Haber
Note--if you decide not to read my winded response, you might want to
read the advice and dating tactics book recommendations that I have for
those average-looking lonely women you mentioned, which is at the end of
my post. (If they follow some of the advice in those books, they might
not be lonely for too long.)
alyoung wrote:
>
> >And how would you like it if the situation were reversed?
> >
> >What if young women were not in tremendous demand, did not have a great
> >many opportunities to have relationships with men, and could not satisfy
> >their sexual desires when they wanted to? What if you received no phone
> >calls asking you for dates, were never treated to dinner, etc?
>
> Young men are in just as much demand as young women. The two sort of go
> together, you know. The vast majority of relationships are between people
> with less than 5 years age difference.
I think much of that depends on the demographics at the time.
Generally, women tend to desire men who are slightly older and men women
who are their own age or younger (for all kinds of sociological
reasons). Given that, assuming an equal number of men and women in each
age category, but different amounts of people in each age category, if
the population varies over time, then in some cases there will be a
shortage of younger women for men (decreasing population over time) and
of older men for women (increasing population over time). (To see this
graphically, take a curve of population vs. time, then shift it +3
years, you'll see that the two curves do not superimpose--indicating
shortages and oversupplies if people pair up along vertical lines.)
How many younger guy-older gal couples have you seen? Probably not the
majority of them or even near half.
Remember those comments about how a woman over 35 has a better chance of
being shot dead by a terrorist than getting married? Haven't heard that
for quite a few years...well...the age group of women that it applied to
were, I think, part of a population increase--more women aged 35 than
men aged, say, 38.
Some anecdotal evidence, I saw some population stats for the Twin Cities
two years ago, showing the numbers of males and females in various age
categories and how many were married. Guess what? About 26,000 women
in the 20-24 age category were married, but only 600 men were. (This
backs up the idea that women tend to get involved with men who are
slightly older.)
Also, men tend to outnumber women overall until about the mid-thirties,
at that time enough men have died off that the number of men and women
becomes equal.
The current demographics in the mid-late twenties age group shows a
population minimum which starts to increase in the late teens (good if
you're a male aged 20-22). For the rest of the twenties, you're on the
edge of the decrease.
Now, let's consider the implications of this for who is in demand.
Factoring in for a slight trend of decreasing population and the fact
that women in their twenties are at the age where they have the most
romantic market value and that older men will pursue them, let's say
that you have 120 men and 100 women (as I understand it, 106 males are
born for every 100 females)--these are the numbers of men pursuing women
in an age group, say 20-25, and of women in that group. If 80 of them
have paired off, how many available men and women are left? 40 men, 20
women, a ratio of 2 to 1.
So, assuming that what I've said approximates reality for the current
twentysomething age group, you can see how small differences in the
numbers of men and women, the change in population over time, and age
preferences can make it very difficult for men (and women in an
increase).
In my own experiences I have seen homely women who might have some
problems attracting men who can still do it and who were able to gain
much more romantic experience than men. Sure, there are lonely women
out there who watch TV at home with their other lonely women friends
wondering where the men are--but all they need do is to go out and make
themselves available, flirt, etc., and the men will come to them. The
same is not true for men in this age group.
If what you say is true--that women have as much trouble attracting men
as do women--in the context of the twentysomething age group, which is
the context in which I meant for my post to apply--then how come I have
observed that men tend to have the most frustration and problems in
these regards, but that it isn't such a problem for women? Sure, I've
seen some women who did have some problems, but if they wanted to and if
they knew what to do, they could go meet men. Men would have a much
harder time doing the converse (think about guys who actively try to
meet women--personal ads, bars, etc...how much success do they have and
with how much effort?)
> >How would you feel if someone said "don't try to attract men, just wait
> >until you are older and earning a good income, then the women will be
> >willing to exchange their sexuality for your income" ?
>
> God, I never said that!
I phrased that improperly. It should have read: "How would you feel if
someone said "don't try to attract men, just wait until you are older
and earning a good income, then the MEN will be willing to exchange
their sexuality for your income?"
(Of course, that' somewhat non-sensical since the tend is for women to
offer their sexuality in exchange for men's income (why women tend to
expect the man to pay on a date), but I couldn't think of a good
converse situation.)
> Rather I said just the opposite; instead of
> trying to put on some "flash" or find the best pickup line, the poster
> should develop HIS LIFE. His interests, his friends, his personality, his
> intellect... THESE are what women of like composition are interested in.
> Yes, it's important to make the most of your looks (take a bath, learn to
> come your hair, dress nicely) too, but if you want a person to *share a
> relationship with you* then dropping the search for the one big
> all true answer of HOW is the first step!
As I went on to say later, I agree that developing your personality is
crucially important and that ultimately it is most important.
I disagree that people should stop looking for answers. Knowing how you
are going to achieve your goals is a requirement of achieving them. You
wouldn't try to drive to California without any inkling of how to get
there, would you? Imagine making random turns, etc.
Back to the discussion at hand--there are reasons why men are attractive
to women, and vice-versa. Identifying those characteristics and aspects
of character which will make you attractive and then learning how to
attain them is a good, reasoned prerequisite to attaining them. Sure,
they might attain them by chance, but who wants to drive to California
without any idea of how to get there?
> >possible that this person's actual, non-internet personality is just
> >fine and no worse than that of the women his age whom he'd like to
> >attract.
>
> If that were so, he probably wouldn't be posting here, now would he?
I disagree, but for the reasons above. If women pursued men as equally
as men pursued women, and if the ratios of women seeking men in his age
group were 1:1, then I'd tend to agree with you.
> The problem may very well be that this personal has no social skills, or
> is looking for something that he isn't going to find.
The latter occurs a
> lot; men sit around and bitch that they can't find a "good" woman, when
> that's not what they want at all. They want some Barbie wanna be with no
> brains and huge tits to totter around behind them and worship their cock
> and not talk back.
There are some men who are like this, and I don't feel sorry for them
since I think that their having high standards for beauty is part of
their problem.
However, there are also a bunch of men who would be happy with average
looking women who have nice personalities who have the same, sometimes
better to offer who cannot attract even those women.
> Problem is... this kind of woman probably only wants
> money. You want a whore, you gotta pay for one, it's pretty simple.
Well...I think that those kinds of women know that they are in
tremendous demand, and since money is important to women, they can
afford to make that one of their requirements.
> When people (of both sexes) drop the stupid self pitying focus on the
> negative (which really is a small slice of the population) and get on with
> their lives and create themselves as an independent, happy, fulfilled,
> interesting people is when they'll realize that hey... MANY people like
> them (regardless of looks or money).
>
> If you sit around at home going, "Geez I'm an ugly loser, who would want
> to date me" then why on earth would anyone want to date you?
I never disputed that. I agree with you.
> >Why should young "nice guys" sit around celibate until one day they get
> >lucky and a woman finds them attractive? Meanwhile, the women their age
> >get to have all the fun and gain all the relationship experience
> >regardless of whether or not they have good personalities, while the
> >"nice guys" sit home and masturbate.
>
> Oh give me a fucking break. There are just as many women who are sitting
> at home lonely, too, and many of them because so many men want a woman
> that looks like a model. Well guess what, out of the few billion women in
> the world, only a small handful look like models.
Tell you what--perhaps you know some of those lonely women--you can HELP
them.
Basically, they need to learn how to make themselves available and
approachable to men so that the men will ask them out. This includes
striking up conversations with men, eye contact, flirting, going to
places where available men are likely to be, etc. If these women really
want to meet men--they can even go so far as to <gasp> take the
initiative themselves and ask men out. They should try placing local
printed personal ads; women in their twenties tend to get large numbers
of responses to choose from.
I recommend that these women go read these three books, which contain
great advice and knowledge which might help:
Guerilla Dating Tactcs by Sharyn Wolfe
How to Find a Lasting Romantic Relationship by Richard Gosse
Why Men Are the Way They Are by Warren Farrell
(Note, the Gosse book can be downloaded for free at
http://www.cupidnet.com on the "Single's Literature" page)
Hope those recommendations help someone you know.
Jeffrey Haber
http://www.sb.fsu.edu/~haber
Here is what you can do--tell them that they need to go make themselves
available to men--so that men can meet them. Tell them to
Etherman
alyoung <aly...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in article
<5v2kdm$ndg$1...@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu>...
> In article <01bcbcc6$07c92320$05d3...@etherman.mdc.net>,
> Etherman <ethe...@mdc.net> wrote:
> >
> >That's funny. I've known plenty of women who were fat/ugly and none
> >of them have trouble getting dates. I've also known many men of varying
> >degrees of attractiveness who find it difficult to get dates.
>
> I look around and see a little bit of each. Chances are you are
> conveniently overlooking whatever classification doesn't mesh with your
> theory.
>
> amy
Not really. It's just in my area there are many more single men than
women.
Etherman
Paul Graham <pa...@imaxx.net> wrote in article <341513...@imaxx.net>...
> Richard,
>
> I assume you are a student and want to meet girls...
>
> Use the 3 step method:
>
> 1. Take dance lessons - Ballroom, C&W and MWSD
>
> 2. Read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"
>
> 3. Read "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom"
These last two are a joke.
Gil G. Silberman
On 9 Sep 1997 23:36:26 GMT, aly...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (alyoung)
wrote:
>While these situations can be chicken or egg spirals of questioning, you
>surely cannot be suggesting that through time, the preference of "men" in
>general has not been towards large breasted women? If not, then explain
>why every woman in most skin magazines has breast implants.
Because the woman readership (of Cosmo, Mademoselle, Vogue, etc)
demands it.
>>Your cynicism, however, is very sexy. . .
>Thanks. It's far from my best quality.
No, it's cool. I'm sure you have plenty of charm in other ways too.
>I'm not whining, I'm pointing out how rediculous most people and their
>situations are.
To quote Lion King, you have noooo idea.
>I've listened to more than one man bitch about how he
>cannot find a "good woman" who then wanted to walk up and hug me and
>commiserate... Um, excuse me, what was I?
Chopped liver?
>Oh, wait, that's right, I was a "friend" and men don't want to date friends.
I do, and I've done it many times. I'm not sure you would like
that one either, though.
>I've heard male friends tell
>other female friends how they wish they could find a woman "like you/her."
>Geez.
I get that comment a lot. What's more common is when the parents tell
the daughter "now, why don't you date a good young man like Gil?"
>Point being the attempt to paint one sex or the other as the sad victim in
>this cruel world is stupid.
There are similarities and there are differences.
>It's hard to met people, and thus meet potential mates, if you sit at home
>playing Quake all night long, every night. Fact. You have to buckle down
>and work hard to improve your social skills, develop a life (full of
>interests, friends, etc) and then your chances will improve greatly.
It's amazing, considering how much people want love, companionship,
romance, sex, how little they actually do to get out of the house.
>amy
>--
>amy young-leith http://php.indiana.edu/~alyoung
>aly...@indiana.edu *Speaking only for myself*
Etherman
TheCauldron <ls...@cnsvax.albany.edu> wrote in article
<341600...@cnsvax.albany.edu>...
> Etherman wrote:
> [friends and lovers...]
>
> > Actually I don't really think in terms of goals. If I become friends
> > with someone it's not because I planned it. It either just happens
> > or it doesn't. I've never tried to get laid by being friends first. I
> > try to be honest so I wouldn't try such an underhanded trick. Besides,
> > given my track record, I have little faith in the theory that women
want
> > to be friends first and then lovers.
>
> Hey, you know, I'm quite impressed that you think becoming friends first
> is "an underhanded trick".
If your goal is for a romantic relationship why hide it?
> That tells me a whole lot about what you
> think concerning friendship. And probably about relationships as a
> whole. It tells me that you don't think of a woman as worthy of
> friendship and sexuality at the same time.
No, I just think it's dishonest to approach a woman for friendship when
you really want romance. If you just want to be friends then go for it.
> It's sort of like: "sex is
> ok, as long as there's no real emotion or connection involved". or: "Of
> course, I wouldn't have sex with someone I trust and know really well."
> Sheesh. Not very appealing if you ask me.
Romantic relationships usually include a friendship of sorts.
> You might want to re-think the emotional part of getting intimate with
> someone. After all, who really wants to fuck a stranger? Wouldn't you
> rather fuck someone who's into your head pretty good? Someone who cares
> about you and knows who you are and what you like?
It doesn't matter to me. To me, good sex doesn't require emotional
involvement.
> If you're afraid of the word "friend" then think up another word that
> means getting to know a person well enough so that you know you want to
> get intimate or not. Just because you have defined "friend" to mean "no
> sex" doesn't mean everyone else has.
I'd love to have sex with some of my friends. However it's been my
experience that women don't want to have sex, or romantic relationships,
with men who are their friends. Sure they want to be friends with the men
they have sex with. The difference is subtle but I hope you can see it.
Bill/Dar McCarthy
Kevin S Douglas wrote:
>
> > Richard Dubois wrote:
> > >
> > > I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a "pick-up"
> > > artist (If such a thing even exists). You see, I have to become one. This
> > > is because I have no friends through which to meet women. But I don't care
> > > about this because women are all I care about, not friends.
>
> PS. Wonder how many of the guys who are giving advice have actually
> picked up women in the past couple of years. I've done it twice. They
> make terrible relationships. The common denominator of "pick up artists",
> by the way, is they're clingy and needy, the opposite of what they first
> project. You're much better off developing your life to the point where
> you're confident, then you really can have your pick of single woman
> in a room (because you'll be exactly who you say you are and you'll have
> the friends to back it up, that's the best position).
>
> PPS. The question you should have asked, in my opinion, is, "How can I make
> quality friends?" Funny how no one ever asks that one.
Ding Ding! If you have the qualitys to make friends, women will follow.
If you have the quality that you don't need or want friends, what woman
will want you. In these modern times if your just looking for sex, I
suggest you jerk off its lots safer(although not as satisfing), and you
won't hurt(mentally) some nice girl. Get a real life.
Pete
alyoung wrote:
>
> Like most other traits, money does play a part. If I had for some
> odd reason the choice of two men who were identical in desirable
> traits such as intellect, sense of humor, compassion, etc and one
> was broke and one was rich, I'd probably be drawn to the one that
> was rich. That's just me... and I can further say I've never dated
> a man just for money, nor could I ever see doing it.
I've met many women who expect the man to buy them dinner, pay for the
movie, etc. And I'm not talking about just the first date. This is
essentially similar to dating just for money. I knew a woman who told
me that she would sleep with pretty much any guy who bought her dinner
at a nice restaurant, say $25-30 (in today's money) per person for the
entree. No, I didn't buy her dinner (I was a poor student then).
> Most men I know don't want a woman who is going to be a drain on
> their wallet and little more. The same goes for women... I want a
> life *partner*, not a large child I have to support. The men I talk
> to want the same... it's not that hard to understand that some
> concerned can span both sides of the fence.
Or even worse, marry someone who is so irresponsible that he/she uses
the credits cards to charge huge bills. I know quite a few men whose
wives did that, and then the guy got stuck with the bills by the
divorce court.
--
Pete
"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee
against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against a tyranny
which now appears remote in America, but which historically has
proved to be always possible."
Hubert H. Humphrey
Pete
TheCauldron wrote:
>
> You might want to re-think the emotional part of getting intimate
> with someone. After all, who really wants to fuck a stranger?
> Wouldn't you rather fuck someone who's into your head pretty good?
> Someone who cares about you and knows who you are and what you like?
BTW, what you describe happens all the time in singles bars. It's
called a one night stand. I happen to agree with you, but many people
seem to like screwing strangers.
Etherman
TheCauldron <ls...@cnsvax.albany.edu> wrote in article
<341743...@cnsvax.albany.edu>...
> Etherman wrote:
> >
> > TheCauldron <ls...@cnsvax.albany.edu> wrote in article
> > > Etherman wrote:
> > > [friends and lovers...]
> > >
> > > > Actually I don't really think in terms of goals. If I become
friends
> > > > with someone it's not because I planned it. It either just happens
> > > > or it doesn't. I've never tried to get laid by being friends
first. I
> > > > try to be honest so I wouldn't try such an underhanded trick.
Besides,
> > > > given my track record, I have little faith in the theory that women
> > want
> > > > to be friends first and then lovers.
> > >
> > > Hey, you know, I'm quite impressed that you think becoming friends
first
> > > is "an underhanded trick".
> >
> > If your goal is for a romantic relationship why hide it?
>
> I'm still puzzling about why you don't want to be friends with a person
> you want to have a "romantic" relationship with. Exactly what qualities
> of friendship are the ones that don't count in romance?
I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying friendship and romance
are mutually exclusive. Certainly there are people who you want to be
friends with but have no romantic feelings for. From now on I will call
these people "just friends." If you think that there is someone you want
to have a romantic relationship with then I think it is underhanded and
sneaky to approach him/her as if you wanted to be just friends. In
other words don't hide your sexual interest.
> > It doesn't matter to me. To me, good sex doesn't require emotional
> > involvement.
> >
>
> So now I really am puzzled about your definition of romance. Does
> romance require good sex, but not friendship? So, in other words, don't
> bother with the getting to know you part, just put out, and the romance
> is on, yes?
Depends on what you mean by romance. I can have sex with someone
I have no feelings for and enjoy it. I could have sex with someone I
don't like and enjoy it. I can have sex with someone I love and enjoy it.
Most people around here don't equate sex with romance. I think romance
without sex is empty. But sex is perfectly fine without romance.
> > I'd love to have sex with some of my friends. However it's been my
> > experience that women don't want to have sex, or romantic
relationships,
> > with men who are their friends.
>
> I'd like to understand this better. Have you actually asked your
> friends to have sex? Have you asked them to have romantic relationships
> with you? You seem to be switching from "my friends" to "women" in
> your sentence above. How many women have you actually surveyed about
> prefence for sexual partners? Are you sure you aren't making huge and
> unwarranted generalizations about all women based on a teensy bit of
> experience with your small group of friends?
Of course I'm generalizing. But it's based on my experiences, and
many of my male friends experiences. Not all women refuse to date
friends, but it does seem pretty rare. Just look around these newsgroups.
You'll see the same story over and over.
Woman: I think people should be friends before they are lovers. I wish
there were more guys like you.
Man: I'm like me. Would you care to have dinner with me Friday evening?
Woman: Uh, sorry, I don't date friends.
Or a reasonable facsimile thereof.
the tree by the river
alyoung <aly...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in article
<5v2kdm$ndg$1...@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu>...
> In article <01bcbcc6$07c92320$05d3...@etherman.mdc.net>,
> Etherman <ethe...@mdc.net> wrote:
> >
> >That's funny. I've known plenty of women who were fat/ugly and none
> >of them have trouble getting dates. I've also known many men of varying
> >degrees of attractiveness who find it difficult to get dates.
>
> I look around and see a little bit of each. Chances are you are
> conveniently overlooking whatever classification doesn't mesh with your
> theory.
It's kinda automatic. The traits that lead to a MOTAS being successful
at getting dates include those traits that would make you more likely to
notice them. Further, a few moments of quality time with a beginning
statistics book should be sufficient to verify that even a random
partitioning will result in members of both sexes tending to perceive
their sex as being overrepresented and the other as being in greater
demand and, for that matter, that popular people in general will tend
to be overrepresented in one's circles of friends and acquaintances.
Math can be cruel sometimes.
--
"An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage,
concludes that it will also make better soup." -- H.L. Mencken
Trygve Lode | 6529 Lakeside Circle, Littleton, CO 80125 | (303) 470-1011
Anonymous
Bill/Dar McCarthy <mac...@iosys.net> wrote:
>Kevin S Douglas wrote:
(snip)
>> PPS. The question you should have asked, in my opinion, is, "How can I make
>> quality friends?" Funny how no one ever asks that one.
>
>Ding Ding! If you have the qualitys to make friends, women will follow.
This is simply not true. Some men who can make friends can also find
lovers. Some men who can make friends cannot find lovers. I know too many
guys who are considered great friends who do terribly with women when it
comes to actually making love with them.
>If you have the quality that you don't need or want friends, what woman
>will want you.
You are confusing the issue. I want friends. But I want women as lovers
MORE than I want friends.
> In these modern times if your just looking for sex, I
>suggest you jerk off its lots safer(although not as satisfing), and you
>won't hurt(mentally) some nice girl. Get a real life.
This is an interesting subject. Why don't guys just jerk off if all they
want is sex? The answer is that even during the fastest one night stand
there's a lot more going on than just orgasm.
If it were otherwise the oldest profession would not exist.
Jackie the Tokeman
D.Hu
Bill/Dar McCarthy wrote:
> Ding Ding! If you have the qualitys to make friends, women will follow.
> If you have the quality that you don't need or want friends, what woman
> will want you. In these modern times if your just looking for sex, I
> suggest you jerk off its lots safer(although not as satisfing), and you
> won't hurt(mentally) some nice girl. Get a real life.
I beg to differ. Any gnome who can lick his own eyebrows can tell you
looks and personality have nothing to do with being a babe-magnet.
--
D HU
Vancouver, B.C.
Don't sweat the small stuff
Mark Gozlan
Lori
Oh how very true :)
Count Zero wrote:
> Hi you out there
>
> On Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:37:01 -0500, Richard Dubois
> <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
>
> > I am wondering if anyone out there can tell me how to become a
> "pick-up"
> >artist (If such a thing even exists). You see, I have to become one.
>
> Come on guys..... you all know
>
> either you are one....
> .. or not.
>
> .... and thatæ„€ it.......
>
> sorry, but I think anything else is a story
> IMHO
>
> The Count
>
> PS.:
> Women are ususally able to look behind this disguises...... cause they
>
> know very well how to disguise themselves ..... ?
> Or at least better than we do.......
Fidelio
ibel...@runet.edu (I l y a) writes:
>: Here's what you do: get a bottle of hand lotion, and go to bed. Because
>: with this attitude, that's what you're going to end up doing anyway.
> That is an excellent advice you might consider yourself.
Unfortunately he doesn't need that advice since I am sure he is already
jacking off many times a day thinking about the first time he'll make
love to a woman. I guess he'll have to visit a whore to accomplish that.
R
John Vo
In alt.love I l y a <ibel...@runet.edu> wrote:
: alyoung (aly...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: He has a great point. Woman are far more valuable for dating than men. It
: is not uncommon for men to get rejected 10-12 times in a row, whereas a
: normal looking woman could easily pick up almost anybody available in a
: bar. You really don't know what you are talking about and you have not
: lived 1 minutes of your life as a man. You are so misguided it is sad.
:
: Ilya
I agreed. It is the way of the social personal relationship
structure. Just have to live with with it. Being a man sucks. :)
-John V.
j...@nyx.net
I l y a
alyoung (aly...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: In article <34119F...@sb.fsu.edu>, Jeffrey Haber <ha...@sb.fsu.edu> wrote:
: >And how would you like it if the situation were reversed?
: >
: >What if young women were not in tremendous demand, did not have a great
: >many opportunities to have relationships with men, and could not satisfy
: >their sexual desires when they wanted to? What if you received no phone
: >calls asking you for dates, were never treated to dinner, etc?
: What planet are you living on?
David Richards
The "Barbie Song" has a ring of truth to it that I must say applies to
most college girls. The song if you haven't heard it, is about a modern
day "Barbie Doll"; a young female airhead who is only interested in
partying, driving around with her "ken", and always being with somebody.
It's a cute, humorous song that I believe is a description of most college
girls today.
I believe that most of the college aged male posters here, including
myself, who are having problems finding a girl are for the most part
serious, deep people. We aren't interested in going out and drinking our
lives away. We aren't interested in partying, acting like idiots, or being
in bars and dance clubs every other night. We're not sports adicts either.
And yet everything we are not seems to be what most modern day college
girls are looking for. They are looking for a bufoon. They, for some
mysterious reason, are attracted to these fools who try to be "bad" (they
really aren't though, just incredibly stupid). And when the fool finally
goes out with her, she feels like she's sharing a little bit of his
badness. She's happy for a while because she's no longer little Ms. Goodie
Two Shoes. But after a while the relationship will go awry (it always
does), and she will be left with a broken heart and the bufoon will go on
partying. She will be wondering what went wrong. But she'll probably never
understand that her mistake was passing people like you and me up. And
when she ends up broken hearted and crying, that is when I will laugh at
her.
Maybe nice guys will get the last laugh.
I have been looking for the right kind of girl recently. A girl who
respects intelligence, is at least slightly attractive (I know I am) and
isn't just out to be another superficial "Barbie". So far I haven't found
one. I haven't given up hope yet. I'm sure there is one out there. I'm
just having a hell of a time sifting through all these air-head barbies.
If you're having the same problems I'm having or if you have some advice
to give me, please post or E-Mail me. I'll be happy to hear from you.
Thanks!
Jeffrey Haber
Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> Ilya, you forgot to take into account the differences between the
> acceptable standards of social behavior for men and women, and typical
> objectives of men vs. women.
>
> A man trying to pick up women in a bar acts within these standards.
> While he may or may not become successful after a couple of attempts, he
> would not look strange. A woman trying to do the same -- actively meet
> men in a bar -- would make an impression of a hooker, and will be
> expected to be treated as such.
That's probably true, but a woman could also approach men she meets
outside of bars, just like men often approach women they meet outside
bars. If she wants to meet good men, she can hang out where the good
men hang out (science/engineering libraries, wherever) and initiate
with them.
> I have no doubt that she would get laid, on average, quicker than men
> would, but that brings us to the second point: many women want more than
> just getting laid quickly. They look for more stable relationships, and
> the men whom they would find that way are not likely to be good
> candidates.
You have a good point. I disagree with you that the kinds of men
that women could meet by initiating would not be good for stable
relationships. What about all those "nice guys" who are complaining
on here? They are all over the place if a woman knows where to look.
Jeffrey Haber
http://www.sb.fsu.edu/~haber
Stephen J. Karstensen
TheCauldron wrote:
>
> Etherman wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hey, you know, I'm quite impressed that you think becoming friends first
> > > is "an underhanded trick".
> >
> > If your goal is for a romantic relationship why hide it?
>
> I'm still puzzling about why you don't want to be friends with a person
> you want to have a "romantic" relationship with. Exactly what qualities
> of friendship are the ones that don't count in romance?
ever hear of LJBF? This is what E-Man is talking about and it stinks.
>
>
> Ok, so tell me why you insist that romance does not include friendship.
tell me why women don't date their friends.
and don't tell me they do, because I've got a good couple years of
personal experience that hammered otherwise into my head.
>
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
> I'd like to understand this better. Have you actually asked your
> friends to have sex? Have you asked them to have romantic relationships
> with you? You seem to be switching from "my friends" to "women" in
> your sentence above. How many women have you actually surveyed about
> prefence for sexual partners? Are you sure you aren't making huge and
> unwarranted generalizations about all women based on a teensy bit of
> experience with your small group of friends?
oh, like he's the only one. I can answer yes to all of the above
questions, and the general attitude is "Oh, we wish we could find a man
just like you. But not you."
>
> What I'm seeing is that you seem to be putting sex, friendship and love
> in little boxes with very thick walls. You also seem to have a hard
> time finding sex and romantic love, by your own admission. What I've
> seen on this group (soc.singles) over a number of years is that the guys
> who seem to be complaining about not getting enough sex/love tend to
> have these same solid little boxes for categorizing relationships. They
> put boxes around categories of emotions, and then they believe that
> those boxes are created by the world around them, and not by themselves.
> It looks like cases of sheer bloody-mindedness to me.
your experience is different, so you accuse him of not knowing what his
reality is.
That's bullshit.
>
> I've also noticed that guys who have a really difficult time getting
> love/sex relationships tend to have very rigid notions of what is the
> right way a woman should look. It's a nice way to filter out tons of
> possible wonderful women and stay unhappily single for a very long time.
not all of us. All I ask is that she's pretty.
>
> Perhaps if you changed perspective a little bit, in the way that John is
> suggesting, you'll learn a bit about love and manage to learn to get
> yourself some, maybe with some very nice sex attached.
>
> L
take your own advice. We're not all drifting in a fantasy world, here.
We have
our opinions because IT'S HAPPENED TO US.
--
========================================================
== Steve Karstensen === skar...@sprynet.com ==
========================================================
== Official Code-Monkey for Playful Minds Software: ==
== www.playfulminds.com ==
========================================================
* Street Fighter: The RPG Homepage
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/skarsten
Devyn D
David Richards <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote in part:
> I believe that most of the college aged male posters here, including
>myself, who are having problems finding a girl are for the most part
>serious, deep people.
To call yourself "deep", even if true, seems a bit arrogant to me. Not to say
I've never been guilty of it myself. : )
>We aren't interested in going out and drinking our
>lives away. We aren't interested in partying, acting like idiots, or being
>in bars and dance clubs every other night. We're not sports adicts either.
Some people "are" these things, as you know. There's no need, IMO, to insult
someone for the choice he/she makes. If someone wants to be a "party girl",
is that superficiality, or a choice? And just what is superficiality, anyway?
Any point of view that doesn't match our own? : )
>And yet everything we are not seems to be what most modern day college
>girls are looking for. They are looking for a bufoon. They, for some
>mysterious reason, are attracted to these fools who try to be "bad" (they
>really aren't though, just incredibly stupid).
Maybe so, but IMO there's no need for such bitterness. : ) Is this a mistake
on the girl's part, or a choice? If it's what she chooses, why insult her for
it?
>And when the fool finally goes out with her, she feels like she's sharing a
>little bit of his badness. She's happy for a while because she's no longer
>little Ms. GoodieTwo Shoes.
Again with the insults. : ) Maybe she finds such guys interesting (rather
than boring), or she likes something about these guys, etc., etc. Is it a
character flaw, or a choice?
>But after a while the relationship will go awry (it always does), and she
>will be left with a broken heart and the bufoon will go on partying. She will
>be wondering what went wrong.
"Bufoon" because he is or bufoon because he lives a different life than you
do?
>But she'll probably never understand that her mistake was passing people like
>you and me up.
More arrogance! : ) Hey, sometimes maybe I'd like to think you're right
about this. But what makes you think that guys like you and me are any good
for her either? What's to say she wouldn't be just as dissatisfied? Are we
such perfect people?
>And when she ends up broken hearted and crying, that is when I
>will laugh at her. Maybe nice guys will get the last laugh.
So the girl makes a choice, and it doesn't work out, and you decide to laugh
at her? How is that being a "nice" guy?
>I have been looking for the right kind of girl recently. A girl who
>respects intelligence, is at least slightly attractive (I know I am) and
>isn't just out to be another superficial "Barbie".
Respects intelligence? What do you mean by that? So you choose not to be a
"party guy", and that makes you something to be respected? : ) And if you're
"at least slightly attractive", why the problems finding someone? And what is
this "superficial 'Barbie'" stuff? Because she prefers another kind of guy,
she isn't "deep" and doesn't "respect intelligence"?
IMHO this is the wrong attitude. To know what you want is good. To look for
it is good. (Does *not* mean you will find it -- it's good if you do, but
you're not entitled to.) But to mercilessly insult those who don't fit your
plans strikes me as unnecessarily rude. What do you hope to accomplish by
insulting these women?
>I'm just having a hell of a time sifting through all these air-head barbies.
So you're "sifting through air-heads"? If they're interested in you, IMO
there's no need to be judgmental. If they're not interested, why worry about
it?
I apologize if this all seems rude to you. The point is that you seem to be
thinking that you are entitled to something here. It doesn't work that way.
If you get what you want, great! If not, don't be bitter. We don't always
get what we want; IMO you'll be better off if you accept that now and work
from there. It will do you no good, IMO, to be bitter about girls who are not
interested in you. There's not much you can do about that. And the hard
feelings will bring you down and probably make you a lot less appealing to
others as well. If you think you are living the life you'd prefer, be happy
about that. IOW don't be mad about what you don't get, be happy about what
you do get. And if you're lucky, you still have many years to go, so don't
give up so soon, eh?
John Fereira
It's an old cliche and has nothing to do with reality. The closest I've ever
seen anyone reach is the tip of their nose. I imagine that watching someone
making the attempt might be kinda hilarious though.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org)
Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
Matt
If you can't be a drunken idiot when your in college, when the hell can you
be? My god you just described most of my four years. And guess what? I
still graduated with decent grades, got a good job and now am successfull
owning my own business. But now, when I have to be serious, I have four
years of great memories. And what about the female friends of mine were a
dating guys like me? Trust me they weren't crying. They also are looking
back on fun memories.
So, acording to you, I was a bafoon. Well I probably was. Hell, maybe I
still am. But you know what, at least I enjoyed my college experience and
didn't spend four years wondering why I couldn't get a date. But then, as
you said, I'm incredibly stupid. If I were you you know what would really
piss me off? The fact that while you are a social loser who is whining
your life away, an incredibly stupid bafoon like me has the world by the
balls. That's what would piss me off if I were you.
And in defense of women I think you are on the wrong track. Why is it I
think everytime you guys say superficial you really mean attractive. Let
me tell you there are many, many beatiful women who are also intelligent,
witty and fun. And as I have said before they want the total package in
return. And why shouldn't they get it? Just because you're not man enough
to provide them with a well rounded person who can satisfy them on several
levels beyond just being "deep", doesn't make them shallow or insensitive!
Get a life.
David Richards <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.A41.3.95.970915...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu>...
> The "Barbie Song" has a ring of truth to it that I must say applies to
> most college girls. The song if you haven't heard it, is about a modern
> day "Barbie Doll"; a young female airhead who is only interested in
> partying, driving around with her "ken", and always being with somebody.
> It's a cute, humorous song that I believe is a description of most
college
> girls today.
> I believe that most of the college aged male posters here, including
> myself, who are having problems finding a girl are for the most part
> serious, deep people. We aren't interested in going out and drinking our
> lives away. We aren't interested in partying, acting like idiots, or
being
> in bars and dance clubs every other night. We're not sports adicts
either.
> And yet everything we are not seems to be what most modern day college
> girls are looking for. They are looking for a bufoon. They, for some
> mysterious reason, are attracted to these fools who try to be "bad" (they
> really aren't though, just incredibly stupid). And when the fool finally
> goes out with her, she feels like she's sharing a little bit of his
> badness. She's happy for a while because she's no longer little Ms.
Goodie
> Two Shoes. But after a while the relationship will go awry (it always
> does), and she will be left with a broken heart and the bufoon will go on
> partying. She will be wondering what went wrong. But she'll probably
never
> understand that her mistake was passing people like you and me up. And
> when she ends up broken hearted and crying, that is when I will laugh at
> her.
> Maybe nice guys will get the last laugh.
> I have been looking for the right kind of girl recently. A girl who
> respects intelligence, is at least slightly attractive (I know I am) and
> isn't just out to be another superficial "Barbie". So far I haven't found
> one. I haven't given up hope yet. I'm sure there is one out there. I'm
> just having a hell of a time sifting through all these air-head barbies.
Sherri Yurkowski
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David Richards wrote:
> The "Barbie Song" has a ring of truth to it that I must say applies to
> most college girls. The song if you haven't heard it, is about a modern
> day "Barbie Doll"; a young female airhead who is only interested in
> partying, driving around with her "ken", and always being with somebody.
> It's a cute, humorous song that I believe is a description of most college
> girls today.
I resent this...I myself am an university student in second year, and I do not
see myself as a "Barbie Doll". I realise that you are sayin MOST college
girls, but not all are like this. And in fact, i am very very happily involved
in a relationship with a so called "good guy". It's a sad indication of
today's society that most college girls are classed as this "Barbie Doll" -- I
have dated the Good Looking Asshole in the past, and got burned. I have to
honestly say that the nice guy is DEFINITELY the way to go. After all, real
life is so much better than fantasy.
--------------5294F510C265CDC199D8384F
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<HTML>
<P><I>David Richards wrote:</I>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I> The "Barbie Song" has a ring of truth to
it that I must say applies to</I>
<BR><I>most college girls. The song if you haven't heard it, is about a
modern</I>
<BR><I>day "Barbie Doll"; a young female airhead who is only interested
in</I>
<BR><I>partying, driving around with her "ken", and always being with somebody.</I>
<BR><I>It's a cute, humorous song that I believe is a description of most
college</I>
<BR><I>girls today.</I></BLOCKQUOTE>
I resent this...I myself am an university student in second year, and I
do not see myself as a "Barbie Doll". I realise that you are sayin MOST
college girls, but not all are like this. And in fact, i am very very happily
involved in a relationship with a so called "good guy". It's a sad indication
of today's society that most college girls are classed as this "Barbie
Doll" -- I have dated the Good Looking Asshole in the past, and got burned.
I have to honestly say that the nice guy is DEFINITELY the way to go. After
all, real life is so much better than fantasy.</HTML>
--------------5294F510C265CDC199D8384F--
Jez
Sherri Yurkowski wrote:
>
>
>
>
> David Richards wrote:
>
>> The "Barbie Song" has a ring of truth to it that I must say applies
>> to
>> most college girls. The song if you haven't heard it, is about a
>> modern
>> day "Barbie Doll"; a young female airhead who is only interested in
>> partying, driving around with her "ken", and always being with
>> somebody.
>> It's a cute, humorous song that I believe is a description of most
>> college
>> girls today.
>
> I resent this...I myself am an university student in second year, and
> I do not see myself as a "Barbie Doll". I realise that you are sayin
> MOST college girls, but not all are like this. And in fact, i am very
> very happily involved in a relationship with a so called "good guy".
> It's a sad indication of today's society that most college girls are
> classed as this "Barbie Doll" -- I have dated the Good Looking Asshole
> in the past, and got burned. I have to honestly say that the nice guy
> is DEFINITELY the way to go. After all, real life is so much better
> than fantasy.
So in conclusion, There are no good looking good-guys? Well you gotta
admit that there are some people like a Barbie girls who believes the
world revolves around themselves. Call them whores sluts collegegirls,
whatever....
Sherri Yurkowski
No, I DO think there are good looking good guys....I happen to be dating one
of the best of them. And yes, there are girls that think the world revolves
around them..but not all of the Beautiful college girls are airheads....
enialle
On 16 Sep 1997 21:33:15 GMT, "Matt" <Int...@ix.netcom.com> wrote with verve and vigor:
|
| If you can't be a drunken idiot when your in college, when the hell can you
| be? My god you just described most of my four years. And guess what? I
| still graduated with decent grades, got a good job and now am successfull
| owning my own business. But now, when I have to be serious, I have four
| years of great memories. And what about the female friends of mine were a
| dating guys like me? Trust me they weren't crying. They also are looking
| back on fun memories.
|
| So, acording to you, I was a bafoon. Well I probably was. Hell, maybe I
| still am. But you know what, at least I enjoyed my college experience and
| didn't spend four years wondering why I couldn't get a date. But then, as
| you said, I'm incredibly stupid. If I were you you know what would really
| piss me off? The fact that while you are a social loser who is whining
| your life away, an incredibly stupid bafoon like me has the world by the
| balls. That's what would piss me off if I were you.
|
| And in defense of women I think you are on the wrong track. Why is it I
| think everytime you guys say superficial you really mean attractive. Let
| me tell you there are many, many beatiful women who are also intelligent,
| witty and fun. And as I have said before they want the total package in
| return. And why shouldn't they get it? Just because you're not man enough
| to provide them with a well rounded person who can satisfy them on several
| levels beyond just being "deep", doesn't make them shallow or insensitive!
|
| Get a life.
I wished I had the life you had, but I had to work full time and attend college at the same time. I did spend just two
quarters away in college and I loved every minute of it. I worked hard, but I partied hard too. My grades didn't suffer
either. I think when you are young you have boundless energy to do everything and still make it just fine.
My ex husband had parents that could afford to send their son away to college. He was in a fraternity and did all the crazy
things college kids do. I missed that. My daughter won't however, she is going to have a great time in college.
enialle.
|
|
| David Richards <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote in article
| <Pine.A41.3.95.970915...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu>...
| > The "Barbie Song" has a ring of truth to it that I must say applies to
| > most college girls. The song if you haven't heard it, is about a modern
| > day "Barbie Doll"; a young female airhead who is only interested in
| > partying, driving around with her "ken", and always being with somebody.
| > It's a cute, humorous song that I believe is a description of most
| college
| > girls today.
I l y a
John Vo (j...@nyx.nyx.net) wrote:
: In alt.love I l y a <ibel...@runet.edu> wrote:
: : alyoung (aly...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: : He has a great point. Woman are far more valuable for dating than men. It
: : is not uncommon for men to get rejected 10-12 times in a row, whereas a
: : normal looking woman could easily pick up almost anybody available in a
: : bar. You really don't know what you are talking about and you have not
: : lived 1 minutes of your life as a man. You are so misguided it is sad.
: :
: : Ilya
:
: I agreed. It is the way of the social personal relationship
: structure. Just have to live with with it. Being a man sucks. :)
You _don't_ have to live with it. Do not accept traditional status quo
dating procedure and do not humiliate yourself beggin for dates, and thing
will change. I know they did for me, and I actually got way more dates
Ilya
I l y a
Igor Chudov @ home (ich...@algebra.com) wrote:
: >
: > He has a great point. Woman are far more valuable for dating than men. It
: > is not uncommon for men to get rejected 10-12 times in a row, whereas a
: > normal looking woman could easily pick up almost anybody available in a
: > bar. You really don't know what you are talking about and you have not
: > lived 1 minutes of your life as a man. You are so misguided it is sad.
:
: Ilya, you forgot to take into account the differences between the
: acceptable standards of social behavior for men and women, and typical
: objectives of men vs. women.
:
: A man trying to pick up women in a bar acts within these standards.
: While he may or may not become successful after a couple of attempts, he
: would not look strange. A woman trying to do the same -- actively meet
: men in a bar -- would make an impression of a hooker, and will be
: expected to be treated as such.
A bar was just an example. Dating anywhere is far simple for women than
for men. All they have to do is flirt and look pretty and men will
approach them, whereas a man has to really go out of his way to get a
date, and deal with rejections.
: I have no doubt that she would get laid, on average, quicker than men
: would, but that brings us to the second point: many women want more than
: just getting laid quickly. They look for more stable relationships, and
: the men whom they would find that way are not likely to be good
: candidates.
How do you know? How do you know that you can put men and women into those
little convenient categories? I am getting tired of this old endlessly
repeated stereotype that women want relationships, not just dates, and men
vice-versa.
Ilya
Erika
In article <Pine.A41.3.95.970915...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu>,
David Richards <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> I believe that most of the college aged male posters here, including
> myself, who are having problems finding a girl are for the most part
> serious, deep people.
Heheheheh! You're kidding, right?
E.
<=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=>
Erika Linden Green-Chicago,IL...egreen@interaccess.com
Social Security is:
Having a chilled bottle of Champagne in your refrigerator at all times.
<http://www.design.chi.il.us/konijn>
<=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=>
NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS: Pursuant to US Code,
Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, p.227, any and all
nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is
subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of
$500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
Sara
Was this post a joke? You seriously think all college girls are
airheaded whores? What college are you attending? I myself am a
graduating senior going to graduate school next year getting my PhD in
Neuropsychology. I have a drink maybe once a month with friends.
I've had the same boyfriend for almost 4 years who has a shitty 79
Toyota Celica....nothing I want to "cruise" around with.
And it's too bad you don't like sports. I love sports...go Cowboys!
Definitely not the typical girl, huh? You shouldn't classify all
college girls into the little "Barbie" sterotype. Maybe you also
shouldn't analyze songs the way you do. If i was to classify you from
your post...I'd assume you were a quiet, kinda boring, slightly less
than average looking man. Watching the whole college scene from afar
and afraid to get to close. Hey I may be wrong....but you shouldn't
say that most college girls are like that ridiculous song.
You're right that it's not the best place to meet people in clubs or
bars. Maybe you should hang out at the library after hours...or at a
coffee house next to campus. But here's a big hint....don't mention
to the next girl your driving in the car with when that song comes
on..."hey this reminds me of you women!"
Charlotte L. Blackmer
Follows set to soc.singles only.
In article <341E17...@sprynet.com>,
Stephen J. Karstensen <skar...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>TheCauldron wrote:
>> I'm still puzzling about why you don't want to be friends with a person
>> you want to have a "romantic" relationship with. Exactly what qualities
>> of friendship are the ones that don't count in romance?
>
>ever hear of LJBF? This is what E-Man is talking about and it stinks.
Huh? Since when is all being friends with MOTOS "LJBF"? I've experienced
both, and they are different, let me tell you.
>> Ok, so tell me why you insist that romance does not include friendship.
>
>tell me why women don't date their friends.
>and don't tell me they do, because I've got a good couple years of
>personal experience that hammered otherwise into my head.
Well, *I'VE* got a good couple years of experience in the OTHER DIRECTION.
So it means that your friends don't want to date you, not that "women
don't date their friends". BIG difference.
>your experience is different, so you accuse him of not knowing what his
>reality is.
>That's bullshit.
And this is exactly what I see you doing here. Sorry, I'm going to have
to close nominations for the soc.singles Pee-Wee Herman Award; the field
is getting too full.
>take your own advice. We're not all drifting in a fantasy world, here.
>We have our opinions because IT'S HAPPENED TO US.
So why are you being so hostile to people whose experience and opinions
are different, and in this case, who are offering constructive advice?
C(sheesh)LB
------------------------------------------------------
Charlotte L. Blackmer http://www.rahul.net/clb
Berkeley Farm and Pleasure Palace (under construction)
Junk (esp. commercial) email review rates: $250 US ea
D.Hu
Stephen J. Karstensen wrote:
>
> tell me why women don't date their friends.
> and don't tell me they do, because I've got a good couple years of
> personal experience that hammered otherwise into my head.
Some guys may make great friends but they just don't have the
pheramones to get the juices flowing.
> > I've also noticed that guys who have a really difficult time getting
> > love/sex relationships tend to have very rigid notions of what is the
> > right way a woman should look. It's a nice way to filter out tons of
> > possible wonderful women and stay unhappily single for a very long time.
>
> not all of us. All I ask is that she's pretty.
You just explained it to yourself. Some women only ask for a certain
look, or a certain height, or a certain way of talking, smiling,
whatever. When it doesn't click it doesn't click. What part of click
don't you understand?
John Fereira
In article <5vnce4$k...@newslink.runet.edu>, ibel...@runet.edu (I l y a) wrote:
>
>Igor Chudov @ home (ich...@algebra.com) wrote:
>: >
>: > He has a great point. Woman are far more valuable for dating than men. It
>: > is not uncommon for men to get rejected 10-12 times in a row, whereas a
>: > normal looking woman could easily pick up almost anybody available in a
>: > bar. You really don't know what you are talking about and you have not
>: > lived 1 minutes of your life as a man. You are so misguided it is sad.
>:
>: Ilya, you forgot to take into account the differences between the
>: acceptable standards of social behavior for men and women, and typical
>: objectives of men vs. women.
>:
>: A man trying to pick up women in a bar acts within these standards.
>: While he may or may not become successful after a couple of attempts, he
>: would not look strange. A woman trying to do the same -- actively meet
>: men in a bar -- would make an impression of a hooker, and will be
>: expected to be treated as such.
>
> A bar was just an example. Dating anywhere is far simple for women than
> for men. All they have to do is flirt and look pretty and men will
> approach them, whereas a man has to really go out of his way to get a
> date, and deal with rejections.
Suppose a woman is not pretty. Suppose she'd like to date and isn't she
in fact being rejected if no men, especially men that she might find
attractive approach her? How do you suggest she deal with rejection?
How do you suggest men deal with rejection? Do you think creating a men vs.
women, us vs. them scenario on usenet is a good way for men to deal with
rejection?
David Richards
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Sara wrote:
> Was this post a joke?
Yes. It was. To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke. Just a playground to
start shit on.
Thanks for your replies.
Sara
Well now we all know why you can't get a date. It's your sparkling,
optimistic personality. Have a happy life...all by yourself! :-)
Kevin S Douglas
Women face a whole different range of problems. Here's an obvious one,
how does she get a man to know she's intereted while simultaneously 1)
not scaring him off; 2) letting him know that she's not interested if
he's only out for a one-nighter. In a bar that's extremely difficult,
which is why most women stay away from them. But it's difficult in the
rest of life as well. I've written a few posts about how passive I
think most women are when it comes to indicating interest (and they are,
I think most women in this newsgroup vastly overstate the extent to
which women send clear signals and go after what they want, that's
particularly true in situations where there isn't a preexisting
relationship). I've come to appreciate there's another side to this,
though, what is a woman supposed to do when most of the cues in dating
involve her being the one who sets the pace of the relationship
(initiate and then slam on the breaks? easier said than done, most
women, let's face it, have been burned by guys who talked a good game
and then cut and ran, there are whole threads in this newsgroup devoted
to how guys can do this).
So what's the solution? Find the middle ground. Really directing
this at guys who might think the middle ground is, "I ask half of
the time and women ask the other half". No, I don't think it works
that way. Rather appreciate that women have their own interests
and agendas in dating and understand that they have a different
set of signals. I came up with a rule of thumb a couple of years
ago which works for me. If you have any reason to believe that
a woman is interested in you romanticly you can assume that she
is, you might not be able to read the signals she's trying to
send out (they might be ambiguous) but there's some part of that
which is showing through. Then, if you're interested, return that
ambiguous signal with a very clear one of your own. That's
basicly your job. It took me a while to figure this out. There
aren't enough women who come out and say, "you're a man, that's
what you're supposed to do", but I've come to realize this is
how most women think.
Which actually gives men a lot of power if they know how to
use this. They don't get pestered by unwanted attention, which
is another problem women face. They get their choice of who
to ask (which is something many women don't cultivate, the
passive men who complain that they don't date often enough
and envy the ease with which women do should look around and
consider all of the women who get into bad relationships
because they hooked up with the wrong guy, largely because
they never thought in terms of alternatives but just got
involved with the first guy who told a good story, consider
all of the single mothers in their early twenties out there
and you'll see this how this can go in the wrong
direction).
What usually stops guys from taking advantage of this, I
think, is just nerves or fear of rejection. That's real,
I don't make light of it at all. Suggest two things to
make more sense of this. First, the more importance one
places on any individual "yes" the more it's going to
hurt when she says "no". That's actually an argument
for asking out women more often and not taking the whole
thing too seriously. Second, there is a competitive
element to dating, no question, guys who ask women out
are putting themselves on the line (because when she
says no the first thing a guy is going to think about
is, "so I'm not good enough for her", even worse, in
a superficial sense that might be the real answer).
There's no magic pill which solves that problem, but
there are a few strategies and things to keep in mind:
1) the less serious the date sounds when you present
it the more likely she'll accept just because she
wants something to do (everyone eats, goes to movies,
one way to turn a no into a yes is just to say
something like, "What, you don't eat?" If it's just
lunch it's not that big a deal; 2) many women (and
this is another thing most women won't talk about)
get very insecure if they're not dating anyone or
haven't in a while because they lose their sense of
where they are in the "hierarchy", they know the same
thing rules to them as well, if no man is interested
they're afraid it means they're at the bottem, which
might sound irrational but I think most men would be
surprised how much this is true (it's a level of
fear most men never face).
The practical consequence: if a man can make a
woman feel attractive, show her that she has that
special appeal, she will always be grateful and
even rejections won't be that painful. There's
a subtlety to this which guys should pay attention
to. If a guy presents a date as some big event
which isn't based upon attraction (which,
interestingly, is what a lot of guys do, "let's
go to the U2 concert but that doesn't mean I
really like you") women will get defensive and
that's when you can get slammed down hard.
If you take the opposite tack ("You're funny,
want to get coffee after this is over?") it
never ends that badly (and that's when she
turns you down).
Anyway, just some thoughts.
David Richards
I think you internet nerds take this shit way, way too seriously...
David Richards
On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Hans wrote:
> David Richards <dri...@tiger4.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> > Yes. It was. To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke. Just a playground to
> >start shit on.
> > Thanks for your replies.
>
> Actually, some people fall in love with people they met on Usenet.
> So it's quite more than just a joke, eh?
No... I still think it's a joke. Any one who falls in love on Usenet is
likely to be a maladjusted freak w/no life, only a step above the average
talk show guest on "Ricki Lake" or "Jerry Springer".
Jeff Joseph
In article
<Pine.A41.3.95.970915...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu>, David
Richards <dri...@tiger3.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> The "Barbie Song" has a ring of truth to it that I must say applies to
>most college girls. The song if you haven't heard it, is about a modern
>day "Barbie Doll"; a young female airhead who is only interested in
>partying, driving around with her "ken", and always being with somebody.
>It's a cute, humorous song that I believe is a description of most college
>girls today.
Well, these days I don't think this is restricted to just within the
college period...
----------*------------*-------------*------------*-------------*----
Jeff Joseph. Stonecutter #118.
E-mail:jjo...@interlog.com
"A funeral service resembles a wedding except it's less serious
because the consequences of the ceremony are already known and
there's no danger of repetition." - P.J. O'Rourke
----------*------------*-------------*------------*-------------*----
Sara
To those couple people I got e=mails from telling me that I was mean
to this guy...who cares? He's just a little troll trying to get
attention. Boo hoo..can't get a date? So what? Move on with your life
and get a hobby. Volunteer your time for a worthy charity. Have
nothing better to do then start "shit" on Usenet? Then don't go
whining and crying to me when I didn't hand you a kleenex okay?
Sherri Yurkowski
Hans wrote:
> David Richards <dri...@tiger4.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> > Yes. It was. To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke. Just a playground to
> >start shit on.
> > Thanks for your replies.
>
> Actually, some people fall in love with people they met on Usenet.
> So it's quite more than just a joke, eh?
>
> --
> Hans Nelisse <hn...@xs4all.nl>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~hneel/
And its not just the USENET too...IRC, and other places have to put up with
idiots like Richard here who dont see the good to any side of the story.
Sherri Yurkowski
Well, I think that if you think that usenet and the WWW is just like writing on a
bathroom stall, I think you might as well give your computer away to someone who
can REALLY use it, unlike you you selfish bastard. There are TONS of ppl out there
who are less fortunate than you (yet none so pathetic). You need to get out and get
a life.....and experience what LIFE really is...instead of posting moronic messages
on the usenet. Hopefully you dont use IRC as well, because your ass would get
FRIED!
Sherri Yurkowski
David Richards wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Hans wrote:
>
> > David Richards <dri...@tiger4.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> > > Yes. It was. To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke. Just a playground to
> > >start shit on.
> > > Thanks for your replies.
> >
> > Actually, some people fall in love with people they met on Usenet.
> > So it's quite more than just a joke, eh?
>
> No... I still think it's a joke. Any one who falls in love on Usenet is
> likely to be a maladjusted freak w/no life, only a step above the average
> talk show guest on "Ricki Lake" or "Jerry Springer".
Talk show huh??? sounds to me like YOU"RE the one that should be on a talk
show...one on world's biggest assholes. You SERIOUSLY need to get a life....and
obviously need something more than that. I say give your computer away...you're
obviously not using it for anything good. And when you are lucky enough to find
true love, maybe you will stop scorning it. Mind you, I dont think that it will
ever happen.
John Fereira
In article <Pine.A41.3.95.970921...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu>,
David Richards <dri...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Hans wrote:
>
>> David Richards <dri...@tiger4.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
>> > Yes. It was. To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke. Just a playground to
>> >start shit on.
>> > Thanks for your replies.
>>
>> Actually, some people fall in love with people they met on Usenet.
>> So it's quite more than just a joke, eh?
>
> No... I still think it's a joke. Any one who falls in love on Usenet is
>likely to be a maladjusted freak w/no life, only a step above the average
>talk show guest on "Ricki Lake" or "Jerry Springer".
I guess it's fortunate for me that I fell in love with a woman with
a PhD. in clinical psychology then, and I met her through this
very newsgroup. That's just this group though. Through the
flyfishing newsgroup I found a used Sage flyrod. I used it this
morning to catch a 20" salmon. Over in rec.boats.paddle I found
a used sea kayak that I bought a few weeks ago. One of my friends,
someone I met in this newsgroup, drove six hours to deliver it
for me. For the past 12 years I have used Usenet almost daily as
a valuable technical resource. If I want a technical question
answered I can call the software vendor, get and try and get their
tech support to answer it, sometimes taken days for a response or
I can post my question to an appropriate newsgroup and get an
answer within hours. I have learned about more good new music
reading the various music newsgroups then I'd even hear about if
I only listened to the radio.
Usenet may be a joke to you but that may be only to your limited
ability in how to use it.
John Fereira
ja...@cornell.edu
Sara
On Sun, 21 Sep 1997 03:25:34 -0500, David Richards
<dri...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Hans wrote:
>
>> David Richards <dri...@tiger4.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
>> > Yes. It was. To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke. Just a playground to
>> >start shit on.
>> > Thanks for your replies.
>>
>> Actually, some people fall in love with people they met on Usenet.
>> So it's quite more than just a joke, eh?
>
> No... I still think it's a joke. Any one who falls in love on Usenet is
>likely to be a maladjusted freak w/no life, only a step above the average
>talk show guest on "Ricki Lake" or "Jerry Springer".
>
Well you must be in love....because you won't stop e-mailing me. Hey
buddy----I'm not interested. I like "Ken". Please go on to another
group...say alt.pathetic.ugly.confused.boys. Everyone--just ignore
this troll.
Stephen J. Karstensen
D.Hu wrote:
>
> Stephen J. Karstensen wrote:
> >
> > tell me why women don't date their friends.
> > and don't tell me they do, because I've got a good couple years of
> > personal experience that hammered otherwise into my head.
>
> Some guys may make great friends but they just don't have the
> pheramones to get the juices flowing.
that's fine. what I was trying to say was that this "friends first"
stuff is
90% baloney.
>
> You just explained it to yourself. Some women only ask for a certain
> look, or a certain height, or a certain way of talking, smiling,
> whatever. When it doesn't click it doesn't click. What part of click
> don't you understand?
>
> --
>
> D HU
> Vancouver, B.C.
> Don't sweat the small stuff
there's a difference between something not clicking and someone who
takes out the
tape measure every time he meets a new woman because he won't date
anyone with less than a 36DD bust. Insinuating that most of the
dateless men are tape-measure carriers is insulting.
--
========================================================
== Steve Karstensen === skar...@sprynet.com ==
========================================================
== Official Code-Monkey for Playful Minds Software: ==
== www.playfulminds.com ==
========================================================
* Street Fighter: The RPG Homepage
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/skarsten
Stephen J. Karstensen
John Fereira wrote:
>
> Suppose a woman is not pretty. Suppose she'd like to date and isn't she
> in fact being rejected if no men, especially men that she might find
> attractive approach her? How do you suggest she deal with rejection?
> How do you suggest men deal with rejection? Do you think creating a men vs.
> women, us vs. them scenario on usenet is a good way for men to deal with
> rejection?
>
> John Fereira
> ja...@cornell.edu
>
> Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org)
> Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
I do notice that not a single one of the women who post here saying that
they can't find
a date are made fun of, told it's their attitude, or ordered to "get
over it and get a life". Only the men. Funny, huh? Then again, I also
don't see many women posting that
they can't get a date. Either there aren't many or they just don't see
the need to complain.
David Richards
On 21 Sep 1997, alyoung wrote:
> In article <Pine.A41.3.95.970920...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu>,
> David Richards <dri...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> >On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Sara wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:10:50 -0500, David Richards
> >> <dri...@tiger4.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Sara wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Was this post a joke?
> >> >
> >> > Yes. It was. To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke. Just a playground to
> >> >start shit on.
> >> > Thanks for your replies.
> >> >
> > I think you internet nerds take this shit way, way too seriously...
>
> Ok, let's take a look at this:
>
> I don't have TIME to "visit a playground and start shit." Hell, I have a
> hard time getting all the meaningful things done in a day I'd like to... I
> wish I had the time to sit around wasting time being a prick and posting
> bullshit.
Well apparently you do or you wouldn't be here responding to my post.
But seriously, many of the examples you cited are positive aspects of the
internet. In fact, most of the internet (E-Mail, WWW, FTP, ...) can be
useful and helpful for many types of people.
But I fail to see what the relavence of Usenet is (especially on fucked
up groups like this one). Usenet is nothing more than an "electronic
bathroom stall" on which to scrible graffiti. I don't scribble graffiti on
real bathroom stalls 'cause I don't like defacing public property. So I
use usenet instead.
the tree by the river
In article <3425C4...@sprynet.com> skar...@sprynet.com writes:
>John Fereira wrote:
>
>> Suppose a woman is not pretty. Suppose she'd like to date and isn't she
>> in fact being rejected if no men, especially men that she might find
>> attractive approach her? How do you suggest she deal with rejection?
>> How do you suggest men deal with rejection? Do you think creating a men vs.
>> women, us vs. them scenario on usenet is a good way for men to deal with
>> rejection?
>
>they can't find
>a date are made fun of, told it's their attitude, or ordered to "get
>over it and get a life". Only the men.
Usually what happens is that a bunch of hostile self-proclaimed niceguys
attack her, claiming that all women really have it easy (presumably it's
just their imagination that they've had their own problems) and that the
only way she could possibly have any trouble is if she's incredibly fat
and ugly. So, the particular discounting and emotionally undermining
tactics do tend to be a bit different, but I'm not at all sure that
they're any kinder.
> Funny, huh? Then again, I also
>don't see many women posting that
>they can't get a date. Either there aren't many or they just don't see
>the need to complain.
I think it's less common to see such articles on this newsgroup (this
is not universal, however); there tend to be more male posters just in
general on the net and female writers may just tend to be a little
more cautious about making themselves emotionally vulnerable in a
medium that can be a bit rough at times.
--
"An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage,
concludes that it will also make better soup." -- H.L. Mencken
Trygve Lode | 6529 Lakeside Circle, Littleton, CO 80125 | (303) 470-1011
Pete
> Women face a whole different range of problems. Here's an obvious
> one, how does she get a man to know she's intereted while
> simultaneously 1) not scaring him off;
I don't understand why this is a problem. Only the most painfully shy
guy will be scared off by conversation with a women.
> 2) letting him know that she's not interested if he's only out for
> a one-nighter. In a bar that's extremely difficult, which is why
> most women stay away from them. But it's difficult in the rest of
> life as well.
Very simple. She can make a comment like, "So many guys are only
interested in a one-night stand. I'm not that kind of girl." sometime
during the conversation. He'll get the hint.
> I've written a few posts about how passive I think most women are
> when it comes to indicating interest (and they are, I think most
> women in this newsgroup vastly overstate the extent to which women
> send clear signals and go after what they want, that's particularly
> true in situations where there isn't a preexisting relationship).
What an understatement! Most women expect a man to read their mind.
Funny, I must have missed that class in school. Every week we get a
post from some bimbo who makes a comment like "If I like a guy, I send
him signals." Smoke signals? Whip out the Navy flags? Wink in Morse
code?
> I've come to appreciate there's another side to this, though, what
> is a woman supposed to do when most of the cues in dating involve
> her being the one who sets the pace of the relationship (initiate
> and then slam on the breaks? easier said than done, most woman,
> let's face it, have been burned by guys who talked a good game and
> then cut and ran, there are whole threads in this newsgroup devoted
> to how guys can do this).
Those who don't remember history are condemned to repeat it.
We used to have a solution to this: the woman didn't sleep with the
guy until she was reasonably sure he was serious. Sleeping with the
guy on the first or second date is not the solution. If I ever have
a daughter, I'll advise her to not sleep with a guy until at least
the third *real* date. Meeting at a basketball game is not a real
date. Ross-wannabees won't wait around this long.
--
Pete
"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee
against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against a tyranny
which now appears remote in America, but which historically has
proved to be always possible."
Hubert H. Humphrey
'Disco Pride' J. Mc Gee
On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, David Richards wrote:
> On 21 Sep 1997, alyoung wrote:
>
> > In article <Pine.A41.3.95.970920...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu>,
> > David Richards <dri...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> > >On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Sara wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:10:50 -0500, David Richards
> > >> <dri...@tiger4.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Sara wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Was this post a joke?
> > >> >
> > >> > Yes. It was. To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke. Just a playground to
> > >> >start shit on.
> > >> > Thanks for your replies.
> > >> >
> > > I think you internet nerds take this shit way, way too seriously...
> >
> > Ok, let's take a look at this:
> >
> > I don't have TIME to "visit a playground and start shit." Hell, I have a
> > hard time getting all the meaningful things done in a day I'd like to... I
> > wish I had the time to sit around wasting time being a prick and posting
> > bullshit.
>
> Well apparently you do or you wouldn't be here responding to my post.
> But seriously, many of the examples you cited are positive aspects of the
> internet. In fact, most of the internet (E-Mail, WWW, FTP, ...) can be
> useful and helpful for many types of people.
> But I fail to see what the relavence of Usenet is (especially on fucked
> up groups like this one).
Just so you know people, he is just starting more shit with that last
sentence so he can read all the angry replies and jerk off to his
computer. But I'll give him something to spank to...
I should not even bother to reply to your troll ass...but I just
cannot resist! You have to use a fucking computer to harass people because
your such a COWARD! What's wrong, you can't pick on someone in real life
becuase you'll get your wimp ass kicked?! You don't like defacing public
property, but you feel free to deface the public usenet, to deface my
computer screen with your shit! Oh you're such an anarchist...you sure
showed us...what a lifeless coward you are! So just becuse you can't see
the "relevence," of the usenet you piss on it. Oh I'm sorry, I forgot, the
world revolves what you think is relevant. You know we come to the usenet
to communicate just like you would use a phone, only to more people from
around the world and for a lot less money. We help one another, support
one another, share what we have in common, and celebrate our
differences. It's pretty damn sad you can't see what's relevant in that.
Here at alt.love I have made new friends and have received a lot of good
advice for my problems, and i actually care about the people on here, so
when you start shit with them, you start shit with me! Fuck off. Go hide
behind your little wall of a computer, coward...
To everyone else, I'm sorry you had to read that. "Nice guys," have a dark
side too...
> Usenet is nothing more than an "electronic
> bathroom stall" on which to scrible graffiti. I don't scribble graffiti on
> real bathroom stalls 'cause I don't like defacing public property. So I
> use usenet instead.
>
>
>
******************************************************
Quote of the month: Using all ways as way, having no
limitation as limitation-Bruce Lee(1940-1973)
Irish saying of the month: Sla/inte go saol agat,
Pa/iste gach bliadhan agat agus ba/s in Eirin
My quote: ska dancers are a bunch of FREAKS! pit wannabes
***********************26+6=1 Ireland*****************
John Mc Gee
Art Major(Interdisciplinary Visual Sciences)
University of Washington, Seattle USA
Mike Given
David Richards <dri...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
>alyoung wrote:
>>David Richards <dri...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Was this post a joke?
>>>>> Yes. It was.
No, it wasn't. The purpose of a joke is to be funny; this wasn't.
Its what we call a garden-variety troll. See 'em all the time. Typical
behavior in September when all the new little .edu boys get their new
little logon accounts and go out to play.
>>>>> To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke.
Like the one about your mom and the Polish aircraft carrier crew?
>>>>> Just a playground to start shit on.
And like Amy said, a playground on which you don't hafta show your
cowardly little face.
>>>>> Thanks for your replies.
Oh, you're welcome.
>>> I think you internet nerds take this shit way, way too seriously...
Oooh, he called us "nerds". He must be a rilly *tough* guy, that is,
when he's not giving tango lessons at the gay bar off campus.
>> Ok, let's take a look at this:
>> I don't have TIME to "visit a playground and start shit." Hell, I have a
>> hard time getting all the meaningful things done in a day I'd like to... I
>> wish I had the time to sit around wasting time being a prick and posting
>> bullshit.
> Well apparently you do or you wouldn't be here responding to my post.
I can't speak for Amy, but I have time for ya Dave. Tell me your
pain, your deepest fears, your big resentment of the world. Maybe we
can help you get laid. Then again, maybe not.
> But seriously, many of the examples you cited are positive aspects of the
>internet. In fact, most of the internet (E-Mail, WWW, FTP, ...) can be
>useful and helpful for many types of people.
>But I fail to see what the relavence of Usenet is (especially on fucked
>up groups like this one).
The *relevance* is that many people have learned how to employ Usenet
to socialize and discuss topics of reasonable interest.
Which isn't to say that every now and then we don't enjoy kicking poor
little bitter college boys that can't get a date.
>Usenet is nothing more than an "electronic bathroom stall" on which to
>scrible graffiti.
Which is about the caliber of your post(s), Dave. Some people can
create artistic murals on a bathroom wall, whereas you couldn't piss
your name in the snow.
>I don't scribble graffiti on real bathroom stalls 'cause I don't like
>defacing public property.
Hoo-hooo kiddies! Let's play "Spot-The-Irony"!
>So I use usenet instead.
You mean "abuse". HTH.
Mikey (ObGodwin: Hitler, Nazi, Hitler, Nazi.)
Daniel Richardson
On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, Sara wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Sep 1997 03:25:34 -0500, David Richards
> <dri...@tiger2.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Hans wrote:
> >
> >> David Richards <dri...@tiger4.ocs.lsu.edu> wrote:
> >> > Yes. It was. To me the whole of "Usenet" is a joke. Just a playground to
> >> >start shit on.
> >> > Thanks for your replies.
> >>
> >> Actually, some people fall in love with people they met on Usenet.
> >> So it's quite more than just a joke, eh?
> >
> > No... I still think it's a joke. Any one who falls in love on Usenet is
> >likely to be a maladjusted freak w/no life, only a step above the average
> >talk show guest on "Ricki Lake" or "Jerry Springer".
> >
> Well you must be in love....because you won't stop e-mailing me. Hey
> buddy----I'm not interested. I like "Ken". Please go on to another
> group...say alt.pathetic.ugly.confused.boys. Everyone--just ignore
> this troll.
I'm sorry but my server doesn't carry that group. I would join it if they
did. Plus that isn't exactly the right group for me. I would say I can be
pathetic, I know I'm confused... and I'm definately a boy. Oh well, 3 out
of 4 isn't bad.
Maybe if "ugly" was replaced with unattractive, that would be the group
for me. I don't know exactly what the opposite sex thinks of me. Girls
seem to smile at me if I pass them on the street. But they never flirt
with me and I end up feeling rejected.
By the way, I'm sorry about my behavior here the past couple of days.
Please see my newest post "I Apologise" if it has reached your server yet.
Thanks.
*******************************************************************************
Daniel Richardson
dri...@tiger.lsu.edu
*******************************************************************************
Sara
Why is your name changed??? I thought your name was DAVID? And
please...don't try to act nice now after you have decided to "start
shit" (your words). My first post gave you advice as to where to meet
nice, decent girls. You retorted to making fun of me for answering
you saying that I have no life. You know what? Maybe you are
right...because I am wasting it answering you. I read your apology
letter and I feel bad for you for being depressed and taking it out on
the group. But you know what? That's no excuse. Everyone has shitty
days or shitty months. HELL...1992 was a shitty year for me but I
didn't drag everyone else down with me.
You might have apologized...but don't expect any sympathy from me. I'm
exhausted with all of this grade-school crap. Take control of your
life. If it's shitty...FIX IT. Don't piss other people off in the
process...one day you might meet up with the wrong person who will
make YOUR life suck. Can I make a suggestion...prozac? I've done
research on it and it works...maybe you should talk to your physcian
about it.
WSmith327
>What usually stops guys from taking advantage of this, I
>think, is just nerves or fear of rejection. That's real,
>I don't make light of it at all.
(snip a little)
>There's no magic pill which solves that problem, but
>there are a few strategies and things to keep in mind:
(strategies snipped too)
I just had to say that there are good anti-anxiety medications out there
which, in conjunction with a good psychologist, can cure that shyness good.
So actually, there is a magic pill for THAT problem.
Kevin S Douglas
Pete wrote:
>
> > Women face a whole different range of problems. Here's an obvious
> > one, how does she get a man to know she's intereted while
> > simultaneously 1) not scaring him off;
>
> guy will be scared off by conversation with a women.
By a conversation where she asks him out? I don't think you're right.
I don't think men are literally "scared off" (as in put their tails
between their legs and run screaming for the hills), but I do think
most men do find something very unattractive about a woman who is
too direct about what she wants if she puts it the wrong way. I'm
not sure why this is, it's one of those mysteries, I'd have to think
more about it but I know it exists (as most women will have no
problem telling you).
> > 2) letting him know that she's not interested if he's only out for
> > a one-nighter. In a bar that's extremely difficult, which is why
> > most women stay away from them. But it's difficult in the rest of
> > life as well.
>
> Very simple. She can make a comment like, "So many guys are only
> interested in a one-night stand. I'm not that kind of girl." sometime
> during the conversation. He'll get the hint.
Hahaha. And if he is interested in a one-night stand what do you think
he's going to say? It's no trick for a woman to get a man to say ANYTHING
SHE WANTS when there's sex involved. The hard part is knowing when to
believe him.
> What an understatement! Most women expect a man to read their mind.
> Funny, I must have missed that class in school. Every week we get a
> post from some bimbo who makes a comment like "If I like a guy, I send
> him signals." Smoke signals? Whip out the Navy flags? Wink in Morse
> code?
I like flags. That would be great. I agree with you, it's very hard to
read women's signals. I can't count the number of times I've blown it
in both directions. The all time best happened a few months ago when a
woman friend of mine got angry because she expected to be my date at
my brother's wedding three thousand miles away, I didn't even know she
was interested in me romanticly, she said she'd been sending out signals
for months and (gasp) I'd been returning them). :0
>
> We used to have a solution to this: the woman didn't sleep with the
> guy until she was reasonably sure he was serious. Sleeping with the
> guy on the first or second date is not the solution. If I ever have
> a daughter, I'll advise her to not sleep with a guy until at least
> the third *real* date. Meeting at a basketball game is not a real
> date. Ross-wannabees won't wait around this long.
>
Third date? I might advise the third month. Can't put this into
practice in my own life, but I see the sense behind it. I've started
waiting longer (unless I think there's some other guy waiting in the
wings, then I go for it as soon as I can, solves that problem).
Kevin S Douglas
WSmith327 wrote:
>
> >What usually stops guys from taking advantage of this, I
> >think, is just nerves or fear of rejection. That's real,
> >I don't make light of it at all.
>
>
> >There's no magic pill which solves that problem, but
> >there are a few strategies and things to keep in mind:
>
>
> I just had to say that there are good anti-anxiety medications out there
> which, in conjunction with a good psychologist, can cure that shyness good.
> So actually, there is a magic pill for THAT problem.
I have no experience with that. Used to be painfully shy when it came
to asking out women, then got some practice and the shyness went away.
I think it is all about experience. When you've been turned down a
few times and the world doesn't come to an end you start to see that
it's not such a big deal. You aren't really losing anything (who wants
to date someone who doesn't want to date you? accept you want different
things and write it off).
This reminds me of something else I'm doing differently, though. When
I was in college I would often develop crushes on women and never ask
them out, or if I did wait for months while I gathered up the courage.
This made the whole thing very nerve wracking. Now if I'm interested
in someone I won't let it go longer than a week before asking her out.
If she says no I'm not invested, it's not a big deal.
Wonder if that might be the problem some guys have. In my case (and
this is the first time I've connected the dots) it was THE problem.
The way I got over my shyness, ironicly, was by deciding one day that
I would just ask out a lot of women I didn't have crushes on until
one said yes. The third one did. After I did that for a while it
became very easy to ask out the next woman I did get a crush on
(which is very much my personality, I can fall hard for a woman
in two seconds, happens every couple of years, it's almost like
I'm a character in some cartoon, thinking of that scene in "Mask"
where Jim Carry first sees the singer in that club).
But if pills work...go for it.
Richard Evans
: By a conversation where she asks him out? I don't think you're right.
: I don't think men are literally "scared off" (as in put their tails
: between their legs and run screaming for the hills), but I do think
: most men do find something very unattractive about a woman who is
: too direct about what she wants if she puts it the wrong way.
The only time I find it unatractive for a woman to ask me out, is
if I find the woman herself unattractive, or when I used to be much
more shy, and couldn't cope with the idea of dating.
( That was about 10-15 years ago ).
As for being scared off, 10 years ago I would have been
scared off by a woman asking me out, or being generally too
foward. However I don't think I've ever been scared of by a
woman just talking to me.
Richard.
Barbara Saunders
In article <slrn61vodq....@manifold.algebra.com>,
Igor Chudov @ home <ich...@algebra.com> wrote:
>On 17 Sep 1997 01:40:20 GMT, I l y a <ibel...@runet.edu> wrote:
>>Igor Chudov @ home (ich...@algebra.com) wrote:
>>
>>: I have no doubt that she would get laid, on average, quicker than men
>>: would, but that brings us to the second point: many women want more than
>>: just getting laid quickly. They look for more stable relationships, and
>>: the men whom they would find that way are not likely to be good
>>: candidates.
>>
>> How do you know? How do you know that you can put men and women into those
>> little convenient categories? I am getting tired of this old endlessly
>> repeated stereotype that women want relationships, not just dates, and men
>> vice-versa.
>>
>
>By surveying my ffemale friends.
>
>Of course these women like sex a lot, it is just that they would prefer
>to have someone more permanent around them. Maybe having a decent boyfriend
>is also important as a status symbol thing for them.
>
>igor
Also, "permanent" can mean something other than "boyfriend," that still
makes the 'pick-up-in-a-bar' an ineffective method.
Maybe the woman just wants a guy she can fool around with "casually" on
an ongoing, friendly/acquaintanceship basis, rather than "doing it" once
or twice while drunk, then being embarrassed to speak to one another again.
Barbara>
Jeffrey Haber
Kevin S Douglas wrote:
> By a conversation where she asks him out? I don't think you're right.
> I don't think men are literally "scared off" (as in put their tails
> between their legs and run screaming for the hills), but I do think
> most men do find something very unattractive about a woman who is
> too direct about what she wants if she puts it the wrong way. I'm
> not sure why this is, it's one of those mysteries, I'd have to think
> more about it but I know it exists (as most women will have no
> problem telling you).
I think that this is an interesting issue. I personally would have
been thrilled if a woman asked me out back when I was on the market.
The question that comes to my mind, is, what kinds of men are these
women asking out, and how old are these women? The ones who would be
most attractive to them, and presumably to other women (which is similar
to men asking out only the pretty women), or were the women asking out
average men. Were the women over 50, in which case there are much fewer
available older men (women live longer) than there are women, or were
they in their twenties? It would be helpful to know that before
carrying the discussion any further.
How do guys on this forum feel about it? (I realize that that's
not at all representative of what your average man might feel.)
Jeffrey Haber
http://www.sb.fsu.edu/~haber
Tracy Hornschuch
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Jeffrey Haber wrote:
> I think that this is an interesting issue. I personally would have
> been thrilled if a woman asked me out back when I was on the market.
I too am finding this to be interesting... So I will try to answer some of
your question below...
>
> The question that comes to my mind, is, what kinds of men are these
> women asking out, and how old are these women?
I've asked men out before. Currently I'm 31, but it was when I was in my
mid-twenties when I did the most *asking out*.
The kind of men that I've asked out are ones the are intellectually
stimulating. If I can have an intellegent conversation with him... forget
it. Therefore, for the most part... the men were educated.
> The ones who would be
> most attractive to them, and presumably to other women (which is similar
> to men asking out only the pretty women), or were the women asking out
> average men.
Looks have never been and never will be a big issue with me. I try not to
be shallow. I've been with men who have been as much as twenty-five
pounds over weight, no big deal. It was what was inside that counted
to me. If they acted like they had a soul and a heart. Do they care
about the homeless? Do they care about children? Children is a big issue
with me.
Also, another issue, which may sound strange... Do they like their mother?
How do they get along with their parents?
So I don't go after just the *pretty* men, or hunks (whatever you may want
to call them). Sure it would be nice, but overall I find them to be to
selfish. And they have a fit if you don't do the same. Can't gain five
pounds in the winter... have to maintain... Kinda of makes me feel like I
shouldn't grow old. I want to grow old with someone, not feel bad for who
I am or my age.
> Were the women over 50, in which case there are much fewer
> available older men (women live longer) than there are women, or were
> they in their twenties?
Can't answer this since I'm not 50+. Ask me in twenty years.
> It would be helpful to know that before
> carrying the discussion any further.
I hope this helps.
>
> How do guys on this forum feel about it? (I realize that that's
> not at all representative of what your average man might feel.)
True, but it's worth asking...
> Jeffrey Haber
> http://www.sb.fsu.edu/~haber
Thanks Jeffrey,
Tracy
bro...@engr.orst.edu | tra...@teleport.COM
http://www.engr.orst.edu/~browntr/ | http://www.teleport.com/~tracyh/
I would like to find a man who wants | Have you told your children
to be married and a father for life. | you love them today?
Frank Granum
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Richard Evans
I may have stumbled upon a way. Perhaps I'll let you all know once
I've tried it a few times.
Basically I often get girls comming over and flirting a bit, or
often dancing a bit. But they always used to dissapear after a
few minutes as quickly as they had appeared.
I began too look for ways to make them hang around for longer,
by trying to work out what sort of things they like. ( How to
touch them when you dance with them etc... ). Well after a
while I started to get the hang if that, and a few times I
ended up with the same girl for an hour or two, and got away
with quite a lot of things besides.
Then the other day I was reading about 'Foreplay', basically
what sort of things women like in foreplay, what to do and
what not to do. When I thaught about it I realised that I
had discovered a lot of the basic ideas on the dance floor.
The times when I was doing well and getting away with things
were the times when I was basically performing a sort of
foreplay. Usually sooner or later in my ignorance I would
do something a bit different, and it would all end, but now
I know more about it I wonder.
If I next time a girl starts flirting and dancing, if I apply
everything I have learned, to try and make her enjoy it, I
wonder how long ( If it happens ), before I end up getting
a girl sufficently turned on so that she will come home with
me.
I'm not sure if it will work, but I'm damm well going to give
it a try.
Richard.
Jeffrey Haber
Hey Tracy,
Thanks for your detailed response...but...how successful were you; how
often did you get yeses and how often were you rejected? That's what
we're wondering.
Jeffrey Haber
http://www.sb.fsu.edu/~haber
Tracy Hornschuch
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Jeffrey Haber wrote:
> Hey Tracy,
>
> Thanks for your detailed response...but...how successful were you; how
> often did you get yeses and how often were you rejected? That's what
> we're wondering.
Actually it really depended on the situation. If I was out with friends
drinking and dancing I wasn't ever rejected. There's only been one time
that I've been really rejected... Ouch!
So basically I've found that men don't mind being asked out, or if I'm out
dancing they don't mind it when a woman comes over and asks to dane.
My current track record (I'm not really counting here) is about 95% yeses.
I don't let the nos get to me. I figure it's their loss, and some other
man's gain :-)
Does this help?
Tracy
"Life is a terminal disease"... unknown
the tree by the river
In article <342849...@sb.fsu.edu> Jeffrey Haber <ha...@sb.fsu.edu> writes:
>
>I think that this is an interesting issue. I personally would have
>been thrilled if a woman asked me out back when I was on the market.
>
>women asking out,
Well, I can just speak of my experience and what I've seen and been
told by friends, but I'd say that a big common factor in the kind
of men who get asked out is simply approachability. Basically, it
comes down to projecting the impression that someone could come up
to you and kick off a conversation without great risk to the ego
and, to some extent, providing some sort of "hook" on which someone
could hang an opening remark.
The latter could be something like wearing an interesting t-shirt
or piece of jewelry, or otherwise just having something readily
visible that someone could ask about--it's a lot less scary to
wander up to an appealing stranger and say, "that's a really
unusual-looking watch, where did you get it?" than it would be
to step up to the same person and try to kick off a conversation
with, "hi. uh, er, well, I just thought you were cute and, well,
I thought I'd try to strike up a totally awkward conversation
with you without knowing anything about you."
> and how old are these women?
Speaking just for my own experience, I'd say they've ranged from
about 19 to late twenties. I suspect that if we looked at women
who've asked men out as a whole, we're probably talking about
some at pretty much any age; there may be a greater tendency
among younger women, but I couldn't say for sure.
> The ones who would be
>most attractive to them, and presumably to other women (which is similar
>to men asking out only the pretty women), or were the women asking out
>average men.
I'll probably never understand it myself; some of the guys who get
lots of attention are pretty darned good-looking by today's standards
and others strike me as looking more like something one had forgotten
in the back of the fridge long enough to become unrecognizable.
That's just one of those things about attraction--people's tastes
seem to vary all over the map.
> Were the women over 50, in which case there are much fewer
>available older men (women live longer) than there are women,
I bet it depends on one's social group; I don't generally meet
a lot of women over 50 (and most of them would probably be more
interested in someone a few decades older than I anyway).
> or were
>they in their twenties? It would be helpful to know that before
>carrying the discussion any further.
Mostly in their twenties, but that doesn't necessarily tell you
much really, because most of the women I know are in their
twenties.
>How do guys on this forum feel about it? (I realize that that's
>not at all representative of what your average man might feel.)
I think there's a lot to be said for working up the courage to
kick things off with someone you think might be interesting. Even
in cases where no romantic thing ensued (which is the overwhelming
majority anyway; just how many romances could one fit into one's
schedule?), I've met some good friends.
Unless you've got so many or so persistent offers that it interferes
with your ability to get work done, it seems perfectly fine to me.
I l y a
Tracy Hornschuch (bro...@engr.orst.edu) wrote:
| > Thanks for your detailed response...but...how successful were you; how
| > often did you get yeses and how often were you rejected? That's what
| > we're wondering.
|
| Actually it really depended on the situation. If I was out with friends
| drinking and dancing I wasn't ever rejected. There's only been one time
| that I've been really rejected... Ouch!
|
| So basically I've found that men don't mind being asked out, or if I'm out
| dancing they don't mind it when a woman comes over and asks to dane.
|
| My current track record (I'm not really counting here) is about 95% yeses.
| I don't let the nos get to me. I figure it's their loss, and some other
| man's gain :-)
|
| Does this help?
|
| Tracy
That is because you are female. Men automatically have higher rejection
rates than women.
What if young single, normal looking women were not the most romantically
desirable social group What if you got 90 percent rejection rate like me
and all of my friends. Before you imply that it is *my* problem it is
not. This is how life is for most 20-something males, which are the least
desirable segment of the population for dating. Because most
20-somethings have no money. Because most 20-something women date *up*,
date older, 30-something richer guys. It is a good thing that you ask
people out, but an overwhelming majority does not, and refuses to get off
their pedestal. I stopped asking people out 2 years ago because I
fundamentally refuse to play by the rules of dating. I will not humiliate
myself. I actually got many more dates than I would have otherwise. If you
project an imagine of a confident, well-balanced and adjusted person, you
will always have dates, but young normal looking - and I might add white -
girls will always have an advantage in this sex-crazed society.
Anyway, thanks for the nice, refreshing post.
Best regards.
==========================================================================
Ilya Email: ibel...@runet.edu
Public PGP key is available at http://www.cs.runet.edu/~ibelooze
==========================================================================
I l y a
Stephen J. Karstensen (skar...@sprynet.com) wrote:
| I do notice that not a single one of the women who post here saying that
| they can't find
| a date are made fun of, told it's their attitude, or ordered to "get
| don't see many women posting that
| they can't get a date. Either there aren't many or they just don't see
| the need to complain.
sounds like a double standard. You are right,sir.
I l y a
Kevin S Douglas (kev...@gte.net) wrote:
|
| > What an understatement! Most women expect a man to read their mind.
| > Funny, I must have missed that class in school. Every week we get a
| > post from some bimbo who makes a comment like "If I like a guy, I send
| > him signals." Smoke signals? Whip out the Navy flags? Wink in Morse
| > code?
What's up with this sending signals stuff?
How about: I really like you and your <____>, do you want to go out
tomorrow night?
fill in the blank - performance, speech, game, whatever relevant subject is.
Ilya