Why Men Cheat And What Nice Guys Need To Know
Outfoxing The Foxes
screwed over.
Women say they want a nice guy, when what they really want is to tame a
player. That takes sexual power to accomplish, and without the challenge
they won't have a reason to be sexy.
Beyond that, however, there are other factors at work:
Which man has an edge with a woman who is auditioning him: a man who has
no other options, or one who is already having sex with two other women?
The nice guy will pin all his hopes on the woman he wants (part of his
being nice will mean that he forgets other women because he wants to
prove his loyalty), while the player will simply mark time with the new
woman while still having sex with the others. This causes the nice guy
to appear eager and desperate, and the player to appear "confident." The
confidence is nothing more than his knowledge that if he acts that way,
he can be CONFIDENT that the woman will cave in, and because he has other
options, he need not rush the process. The woman misreads this as
patience.
Cheaters are more attractive to women because they avoid key mistakes
other men make: they don't have to pressure women to have sex because
they are already getting it, and they won't smother a woman either
because she's nothing more than a number to them. The women reward this
behavior by seeing it as a sign of desirability, and punish the men who
are most honest, most loyal, and most sincere by acting like something is
wrong with their true feelings.
It's up to women to change this reward system and men to exploit it until
such time arrives.
Outfoxing The Foxes: How To Seduce The Women Of Your Dreams
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html
"If A attacks B in defense of C, A is a scoundrel."
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Courageous
> no other options, or one who is already having sex with two other women?
> The nice guy will pin all his hopes on the woman he wants (part of his
> being nice will mean that he forgets other women because he wants to
> prove his loyalty), while the player will simply mark time with the new
> woman while still having sex with the others. This causes the nice guy
> to appear eager and desperate, and the player to appear "confident." The
> confidence is nothing more than his knowledge that if he acts that way,
> he can be CONFIDENT that the woman will cave in, and because he has other
> options, he need not rush the process. The woman misreads this as
> patience.
This analysis is exactly correct, for a large portion of women.
Even girls who state loudly they don't go for this type of guy
are, um, foolin' themselves. Although of course there are a small
minority of women who really are wise to the world and pick
correctly, but of course most of them are not available.......
I told a lady-friend of a friend of my last night in a round of
friendly insults that she'd have to get me drunk to get me to
sleep with her. She spent the entire rest of the night flirting
with me shamelessly. How many nice guys would look a girl and
say that kind of thing (playfully) to a girl's face?
And why does this shit work?
Go figure.
Gosh. Having my heart ripped out and fed to me on a silver
platter seems just the thing....
:)
C/
Dianne
This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like players.
I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved intimately.
It is not a power thing for women.
Fourth, there are no such things as "nice guys" and "confident guys"
as people in this group are defining them. Actually, no one has
defined a nice guy for me yet so I don't know what you are talking
about. People are people. Each person has good and bad
characteristics. No one is perfect.
Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
saying. Women do not want men like this. Men like this never have
long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All women
know to avoid these men and do so studiously. We also avoid whinging
losers who tell us that they are nice guys all the time.
A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
Someone who loves her and loves to make love to her. Someone who puts
her first above anything or anyone else so she can do the same for
him.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
>Women say they want a nice guy, when what they really want is to tame a
>player. That takes sexual power to accomplish, and without the challenge
>they won't have a reason to be sexy.
>Which man has an edge with a woman who is auditioning him: a man who has
>no other options, or one who is already having sex with two other women?
>The nice guy will pin all his hopes on the woman he wants (part of his
>being nice will mean that he forgets other women because he wants to
>prove his loyalty), while the player will simply mark time with the new
>woman while still having sex with the others. This causes the nice guy
>to appear eager and desperate, and the player to appear "confident." The
>confidence is nothing more than his knowledge that if he acts that way,
>he can be CONFIDENT that the woman will cave in, and because he has other
>options, he need not rush the process. The woman misreads this as
>patience.
>Cheaters are more attractive to women because they avoid key mistakes
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
>
> First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
Propaganda
>
> Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like players.
> I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
Propaganda
>
> Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved intimately.
> It is not a power thing for women.
Propaganda
>
> Fourth, there are no such things as "nice guys" and "confident guys"
> as people in this group are defining them. Actually, no one has
> defined a nice guy for me yet so I don't know what you are talking
> about. People are people. Each person has good and bad
> characteristics. No one is perfect.
Propaganda
>
> Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
> girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
> saying. Women do not want men like this.
But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
> Men like this never have
> long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All women
But you whore around with them anyways
> know to avoid these men and do so studiously. We also avoid whinging
> losers who tell us that they are nice guys all the time.
Propaganda
>
> A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
> ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
> her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
> not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
> Someone who loves her and loves to make love to her. Someone who puts
> her first above anything or anyone else so she can do the same for
> him.
Propaganda
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
Courageous
>
> This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
>
> First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
The guys who cheat aren't going to tell you, Dianne.
Rather their behavior changes in such a way as to make
them subtley more desireable to women in general. My
favorite technique: tell the girl you aren't looking
for a relationship. Suddenly she wants you.
ba-da-bing
> Second, I have no interest in taming a player.
This isn't about you, Dianne.
> Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
> girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
> saying. Women do not want men like this. Men like this never have
> long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All women
> know to avoid these men and do so studiously.
What a crock. My best friend is a player. Women fall all
over him. This is typical of players: women fall all over
them. And no, they don't want to "just use him for sex".
They fall in love, again and again, time after time, so
many times it's past hilarious and into deeply sick. There's
a reason players can play, Dianne: the women go for them.
Or maybe you just think players, um... play with themselves?
C/
nick...@my-deja.com
laughed out loud!
Of course, once again, you're on the money...
> Some chick lied:
> >
> > This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
> >
> > First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
> > girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time.
That
> > guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>
> Propaganda
>
> >
> > Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like
players.
> > I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
>
> Propaganda
>
> >
> > Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved
intimately.
> > It is not a power thing for women.
>
> Propaganda
>
> >
> > Fourth, there are no such things as "nice guys" and "confident guys"
> > as people in this group are defining them. Actually, no one has
> > defined a nice guy for me yet so I don't know what you are talking
> > about. People are people. Each person has good and bad
> > characteristics. No one is perfect.
>
> Propaganda
>
> >
> > Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
> > girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
> > saying. Women do not want men like this.
>
> But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
>
> > Men like this never
have
> > long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All
women
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Pete Turk
<aku...@alt.net> writes
>Propaganda
>Propaganda
>Propaganda
>Propaganda
>Propaganda
>Propaganda
When you use a word -- find out what it means.
Pete Turk <Pe...@ragtag.demon.co.uk> ICQ# 11981084
RFA Moonshadow
--
May your doorstep ever be dirty.
-- Romany blessing
Pete Turk
<jkra...@san.rr.com> writes
>
>This analysis is exactly correct, for a large portion of women.
Bilge. What proportion of the world's women
d'you claim you're speaking about?
Pete Turk
Outfoxing The Foxes <you__will...@juno.com> writes
>This is to all the "nice guys" out there who want to know why they get
>screwed over.
>
>player. That takes sexual power to accomplish, and without the challenge
>they won't have a reason to be sexy.
Bilge.
Pete Turk
<jkra...@san.rr.com> writes
>Dianne wrote:
>>
>> This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
>>
>> First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
>> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
>> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>
You think the word won't get around?
Doug M
Pete Turk <Pe...@ragtag.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:E0strGAP...@ragtag.demon.co.uk...
> In article <3850AFC7...@alt.net>, Aaron R. Kulkis
> <aku...@alt.net> writes
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
>
> When you use a word -- find out what it means.
I've read his posts before. He knows EXACTLY what he means. There is a vast
dichotomy between what a woman "wants" and what actually attracts her. If
the usual BS is what a woman actually wanted, I would be up to my armpits in
lovers.
Douglas
Doug M
I look at it this way. Why do women get "jerks" all the time. Well, Women
are willing to hurt "jerks" but not willing to hurt nice guys. So they screw
the jerks and leave the nice guys be. The irony is that the "jerks" get
rewarded for their behavior by what they want: sex. The nice guys get
punished for their behavior. Their reward is nothing.
Why do women not go out with nice guys? Because they don't want to see those
men turn into jerks once the relationship starts. The stupid thing is that
many, many women date nice guys last, only to learn that relationship with
them are actually for real and workable. They ask themselves, "Why did I
spend all that time with those other idiots? Ahhh!!" That is, nice guys
actually turn out to be great mates.
So women, if you don't want to hurt a nice guy, treat him like a jerk.
Outfoxing The Foxes <you__will...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:19991209.142200.-36483...@juno.com...
> This is to all the "nice guys" out there who want to know why they get
> screwed over.
>
> Women say they want a nice guy, when what they really want is to tame a
> player. That takes sexual power to accomplish, and without the challenge
> they won't have a reason to be sexy.
>
> Beyond that, however, there are other factors at work:
>
> Which man has an edge with a woman who is auditioning him: a man who has
> no other options, or one who is already having sex with two other women?
> The nice guy will pin all his hopes on the woman he wants (part of his
> being nice will mean that he forgets other women because he wants to
> prove his loyalty), while the player will simply mark time with the new
> woman while still having sex with the others. This causes the nice guy
> to appear eager and desperate, and the player to appear "confident." The
> confidence is nothing more than his knowledge that if he acts that way,
> he can be CONFIDENT that the woman will cave in, and because he has other
> options, he need not rush the process. The woman misreads this as
> patience.
>
> Cheaters are more attractive to women because they avoid key mistakes
> other men make: they don't have to pressure women to have sex because
> they are already getting it, and they won't smother a woman either
> because she's nothing more than a number to them. The women reward this
> behavior by seeing it as a sign of desirability, and punish the men who
> are most honest, most loyal, and most sincere by acting like something is
> wrong with their true feelings.
>
> It's up to women to change this reward system and men to exploit it until
> such time arrives.
>
>
Joe Dlhopolsky
<you__will...@juno.com> wrote:
>This is to all the "nice guys" out there who want to know why they get
>screwed over.
>
>Women say they want a nice guy,
This is true.
> when what they really want is to tame a
>player.
This is not true, as far as I can gather from talking to women and observing
their behavior. Women are instinctively drawn to the guy who has the best
promise of "killing the Mastodon." Back when men were the providers, the best
providers were bold, brash, daring, physically strong, and not daunted by
emotional expression. When you were hunting for food, it didn't help to be
reflective, sensitive, open to emotions, communicative, and honest. These
traits, we are told, are the best for sustaining a modern relationship. However,
women's instincts attract them to the hunter's traits, which, cruelly enough,
are the traits of the modern jerk, player, or Bad Boy. Women really do want a
man who is not a jerk. But they are drawn to jerks. The myth that women want to
tame a player grows from the lamentations of women who hook up with jerks and
wish that they were not jerks. If they could get beyond their instincts and give
the so-called nice guy a chance, they would be much happier. The jerks might
become a little more civilized if the well dries up.
>Which man has an edge with a woman who is auditioning him: a man who has
>no other options, or one who is already having sex with two other women?
>The nice guy will pin all his hopes on the woman he wants (part of his
>being nice will mean that he forgets other women because he wants to
>prove his loyalty), while the player will simply mark time with the new
>woman while still having sex with the others. This causes the nice guy
>to appear eager and desperate, and the player to appear "confident." The
>confidence is nothing more than his knowledge that if he acts that way,
>he can be CONFIDENT that the woman will cave in, and because he has other
>options, he need not rush the process. The woman misreads this as
>patience.
>
>Cheaters are more attractive to women because they avoid key mistakes
>other men make: they don't have to pressure women to have sex because
>they are already getting it, and they won't smother a woman either
>because she's nothing more than a number to them. The women reward this
>behavior by seeing it as a sign of desirability, and punish the men who
>are most honest, most loyal, and most sincere by acting like something is
>wrong with their true feelings.
In my opinion, this is 99.44% accurate.
Joe Dlhopolsky
joe...@yahoo.com
Joe Dlhopolsky
>This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
>
>First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
>girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
>guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
What makes you think that he would tell you? In most cases, he drops the news on
the woman after her emotions are already engaged and he's gotten what he wants
from her - sex.
.
>Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like players.
>I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
I agree with you here.
>Fourth, there are no such things as "nice guys" and "confident guys"
>as people in this group are defining them. Actually, no one has
>defined a nice guy for me yet so I don't know what you are talking
>about. People are people. Each person has good and bad
>characteristics. No one is perfect.
I think you're right here too. One person's nice guy is another person's jerk.
>Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
>girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
>saying. Women do not want men like this.
Their minds tell them that they don't want such a man, but their heart and
hormones speak otherwise.
> Men like this never have
>long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever.
True.
> All women
>know to avoid these men and do so studiously.
Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Wrong answer, Dianne. Sorry, you lose. But we have some
consolation prizes for you.
I am listed on a web page as a relationship advisor. Not a day goes by when I
don't get three or more letters from women who have hooked up with jerks who
abuse them in every way imaginable, asking me to tell them how to make the jerks
love them. I tell them that it ain't gonna happen.
> We also avoid whinging
>losers who tell us that they are nice guys all the time.
>A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
>ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
>her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
>not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
>Someone who loves her and loves to make love to her. Someone who puts
>her first above anything or anyone else so she can do the same for
>him.
That's your mind speaking. What really gets your hormones flowing is a bold,
brash, daring, slightly dangerous Mastodon killer. Too bad this type is not also
sensitive, reflective, attentive, kind, and communicative. The heart (instincts,
hormones) will always overrule the mind unless one makes a conscious decision to
fight it.
Joe Dlhopolsky
joe...@yahoo.com
JJT
>On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 03:48:44 GMT, adv...@hotmail.com (Dianne) wrote:
>> We also avoid whinging
>>losers who tell us that they are nice guys all the time.
Real 'nice guys' don't have to broadcast it, they prove it with every
breath, etc. Actions speak louder then blah, blah, blah..
>>A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
>>ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
>>her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
>>not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
A real 'nice guy' wants someone who has a brain, who can talk
her own opinions, and have a life before and after they meet..
Otherwise, get yourself a puppy, dude...
>>Someone who loves her and loves to make love to her. Someone who puts
>>her first above anything or anyone else so she can do the same for
>>him.
'Nice guys' want this too.. IF he is for real, his only desire is
for her alone, not her looks, wealth or whatever. When he finds that
person, he doesn't need to look elsewhere..for anything.. Simple?
Mind you, I am talking perfect situation here..
SHE is his fantasy, his everything..or as Richard Thompson
wrote "lover, mother, whore and wife"..
>That's your mind speaking. What really gets your hormones flowing is a bold,
>brash, daring, slightly dangerous Mastodon killer. Too bad this type is not also
>sensitive, reflective, attentive, kind, and communicative. The heart (instincts,
>hormones) will always overrule the mind unless one makes a conscious decision to
>fight it.
OH SO TRUE.. WHY do ladies always think they can 'save' the loser
from himself..no matter how many times he abuses her, steals, or he
cheats.."I can change him" is her battle-cry.. A real 'nice guy'
doesn't want anything to do with such a lady.. She wants control
of everything and when he revolts, she tries harder. EECCHHH!
Unless the two form a equal partnership, neither 'in charge' of
the other, it is all fish and vinegar.. Many a guy stays single
for a long time till he finds such a partnership, and all those women
who are his 'best friends' see that.. Look at how many women friends
(I mean friends, not former lovers) he has..and how real they are to
that friendship..that is a clue.. Those ladies trust him completely
with their secrets, and for good reason. Which is why many times
such people become lovers later in life..the guy has PROVEN
he doesn't just want sex or whatever.
Just my 2 cents..well, more like a dollar..hehehehehe
JJT
Yeah, remove the 'nospam' to reply...
Outfoxing The Foxes
This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
<-------This presumes that you KNOW he is this way. Many women wind up
fooled. Are you saying you're immune to being played?
Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like players.
I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
<-------This presumes that you would know he's a player. Part of being a
successful liar is convincing people you are not one.
Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved intimately.
It is not a power thing for women.
<-------But when a woman expects a man to appreciate her or want her and
he doesn't, they want to CHANGE that to where he does.
Fourth, there are no such things as "nice guys" and "confident guys"
as people in this group are defining them. Actually, no one has
defined a nice guy for me yet so I don't know what you are talking
about. People are people. Each person has good and bad
characteristics. No one is perfect.
Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
saying. Women do not want men like this. Men like this never have
long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All women
know to avoid these men and do so studiously. We also avoid whinging
losers who tell us that they are nice guys all the time.
<---------Again, you'd have to know he was cheating. You also said
something interesting, because the only men who would be "whining losers"
under your system are men who aren't getting laid. Men who are getting
laid will appear confident, which is what I said.
A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
Someone who loves her and loves to make love to her. Someone who puts
her first above anything or anyone else so she can do the same for
him.
<---------You forgot "tall and attractive, and earning a decent living."
That cuts your field down considerably.
NoLa
> I told a lady-friend of a friend of my last night in a round of
> friendly insults that she'd have to get me drunk to get me to
> sleep with her. She spent the entire rest of the night flirting
> with me shamelessly. How many nice guys would look a girl and
> say that kind of thing (playfully) to a girl's face?
>
> And why does this shit work?
>
I have no idea why it works, but it worked for me. :) A VERY sexy and
confindent man walked up to me last week at the bar and one of the
first things I said to him was,"if your looking for a quick lay, look
someplace else." And would you believe, he's taking me out on a date
tomorrrow night? ;)
NoLa
Courageous
> their behavior. Women are instinctively drawn to the guy who has the best
> promise of "killing the Mastodon." Back when men were the providers, the best
> providers were bold, brash, daring, physically strong, and not daunted by
> emotional expression. When you were hunting for food, it didn't help to be
> reflective, sensitive, open to emotions, communicative, and honest. These
> traits, we are told, are the best for sustaining a modern relationship. However,
> women's instincts attract them to the hunter's traits, which, cruelly enough,
> are the traits of the modern jerk, player, or Bad Boy. Women really do want a
> man who is not a jerk. But they are drawn to jerks. The myth that women want to
> tame a player grows from the lamentations of women who hook up with jerks and
> wish that they were not jerks. If they could get beyond their instincts and give
> the so-called nice guy a chance, they would be much happier. The jerks might
> become a little more civilized if the well dries up.
Actually, quite good insight.
C/
Dianne
Somehow I think that you misunderstand the meaning of "propaganda" but
no matter.
>> First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
>> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
>> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>Propaganda
>> Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like players.
>> I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
>Propaganda
>> Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved intimately.
>> It is not a power thing for women.
>Propaganda
>> Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
>> girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
>> saying. Women do not want men like this.
>But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
Who are they? They who? Who are you to tell anyone what sort of
romantic partner they should have?
>> Men like this never have
>> long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All women
>But you whore around with them anyways
Who do you know who I "whore" around with? What do you mean by
"whore" around?
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Dianne
>I look at it this way. Why do women get "jerks" all the time. Well, Women
>are willing to hurt "jerks" but not willing to hurt nice guys. So they screw
>the jerks and leave the nice guys be. The irony is that the "jerks" get
>rewarded for their behavior by what they want: sex. The nice guys get
>punished for their behavior. Their reward is nothing.
>Why do women not go out with nice guys? Because they don't want to see those
>men turn into jerks once the relationship starts. The stupid thing is that
>many, many women date nice guys last, only to learn that relationship with
>them are actually for real and workable. They ask themselves, "Why did I
>spend all that time with those other idiots? Ahhh!!" That is, nice guys
>actually turn out to be great mates.
>So women, if you don't want to hurt a nice guy, treat him like a jerk.
The reason that women get jerks often is because no one gets the
perfect mate the first try out. If that were so we'd all be marrying
our highschool sweethearts. Every person, man or woman, generally
tries on several people before settling down with the right person for
them. Sometimes they make a mistake then, men or women. Sometimes
they fix it, sometimes they don't.
The point is, you are usually with someone who is a jerk until you are
with the one person who is not a jerk.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Dianne
>>> This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
>>> First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
>>> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
>>> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>>The guys who cheat aren't going to tell you, Dianne.
> You think the word won't get around?
That's definitely right. Anyone with half a brain can figure out if
man is cheating on them. Several clues: they don't want you to meet
their friends, they don't want you to meet their families, they have
weak excuses for whispered cellphone calls, you find a berette in
between the seats of his car, he refuses to tell you where is going
one night after a casual question, etc, etc. Plus, you have friends
who know such things.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Dianne
>>A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
>>ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
>>her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
>>not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
>>Someone who loves her and loves to make love to her. Someone who puts
>>her first above anything or anyone else so she can do the same for
>>him.
>That's your mind speaking. What really gets your hormones flowing is a bold,
>brash, daring, slightly dangerous Mastodon killer. Too bad this type is not also
>sensitive, reflective, attentive, kind, and communicative. The heart (instincts,
>hormones) will always overrule the mind unless one makes a conscious decision to
>fight it.
Sorry, I don't want any "mastadon kiler". Guys who pose and brag
about their "violence abilities" turn me off completely.
I don't think it's not possible for a guy to be brash and daring as
well as kind and gentle. Slightly dangerous, no, but exciting yes.
I've met a couple really great guys like this in my life, but
unfortunately they were already taken.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Courageous
>
> Some Chick Writes:
>
> This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
> First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>
> fooled. Are you saying you're immune to being played?
She's overlooking two things: first, the kind of guy who's
a player is extraordinarily charming. He is a chamaeleon;
many of them fool even themselves. Second, it's not so much
the guy who is a cheater who fits this bill, but guys who
are quick-dumpers or holder-offers. "I'm not ready for a
relationship yet" is a magic phrase which burns into the
brain of the opposite sex, causing it to imprint on you
for the challenge. This applies to both sexes, of course.
I've been on the receiving end of that one... ouch.
> Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like players.
> I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
>
> <-------This presumes that you would know he's a player. Part of being a
> successful liar is convincing people you are not one.
Yep. And besides, we're not talking about declarative/intellectual
facts, but rather behavior.
> Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved intimately.
> It is not a power thing for women.
>
> <-------But when a woman expects a man to appreciate her or want her and
> he doesn't, they want to CHANGE that to where he does.
My theory is that we want an equal or better. Ergo, we are attracted
more intensely to those who are diffident about us. In this, men
and women are alike.
C/
JJT
>
>>>> This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
>
>>>> First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
>>>> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
>>>> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>
>>>The guys who cheat aren't going to tell you, Dianne.
>
>> You think the word won't get around?
Yes, it's like the old song:
"You'll meet a friend of a friend that you lied to more"
(band: The Shades, Boston MA)
Folks who lie about anything and/or cheat better
have good memories, because those who they hurt,
along with the friends who know about the hurt,
HAVE good memories. Word does get around..
Payback can be REAL nasty...
JJT
(remove the nospam)
ICQ#: 34439295
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> Pete Turk <Pe...@ragtag.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:E0strGAP...@ragtag.demon.co.uk...
> > In article <3850AFC7...@alt.net>, Aaron R. Kulkis
> > <aku...@alt.net> writes
> > >Propaganda
> > >Propaganda
> > >Propaganda
> > >Propaganda
> > >Propaganda
> > >Propaganda
> >
> > When you use a word -- find out what it means.
>
> I've read his posts before. He knows EXACTLY what he means. There is a vast
Thank you for the vote of confidence.
> dichotomy between what a woman "wants" and what actually attracts her. If
> the usual BS is what a woman actually wanted, I would be up to my armpits in
> lovers.
>
> Douglas
>
> >
> > Pete Turk <Pe...@ragtag.demon.co.uk> ICQ# 11981084
> > RFA Moonshadow
> > --
> > May your doorstep ever be dirty.
> > -- Romany blessing
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> In article <3850AFC7...@alt.net>, Aaron R. Kulkis
> <aku...@alt.net> writes
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
> >Propaganda
>
> When you use a word -- find out what it means.
Petey dear,
do you always have a brown tongue and baaaaad breath after posting USENET?
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> Somehow I think that you misunderstand the meaning of "propaganda" but
> no matter.
>
> >> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
> >> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>
>
> >> Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like players.
> >> I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
>
>
> >> Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved intimately.
> >> It is not a power thing for women.
>
>
> >> Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
> >> girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
> >> saying. Women do not want men like this.
>
> >But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
>
> Who are they? They who? Who are you to tell anyone what sort of
> romantic partner they should have?
Don't play dumb.
>
> >> Men like this never have
> >> long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All women
>
> >But you whore around with them anyways
>
> Who do you know who I "whore" around with? What do you mean by
> "whore" around?
You're still playing dumb.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Dianne
jdh...@ubsi.com
nick...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Aaron, thank you for a simply worded, yet *hilarious* post! I
actually
> laughed out loud!
>
> Of course, once again, you're on the money...
or is it just a spin, and not even very carefully done at that? Maybe
even a spin on Aaron by himself.
>
> > Some chick lied:
> > >
> > > This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
> > >
> > > First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
> > > girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time.
> That
> > > guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
> >
> > Propaganda
> >
> > >
> > > Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like
> players.
> > > I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
> >
> > Propaganda
> >
> > >
> > > Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved
> intimately.
> > > It is not a power thing for women.
> >
> > Propaganda
> >
> > >
> > > Fourth, there are no such things as "nice guys" and "confident
guys"
> > > as people in this group are defining them. Actually, no one has
> > > defined a nice guy for me yet so I don't know what you are talking
> > > about. People are people. Each person has good and bad
> > > characteristics. No one is perfect.
> >
> > Propaganda
> >
> > >
> > > Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
> > > girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
> > > saying. Women do not want men like this.
> >
> > But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
> >
> > > Men like this never
> have
> > > long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All
> women
> >
> > But you whore around with them anyways
> >
> > > know to avoid these men and do so studiously. We also avoid
> whinging
> > > losers who tell us that they are nice guys all the time.
> >
> > Propaganda
> >
> > >
> > > A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests
and
> > > ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who
respects
> > > her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with
> and
> > > not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
> > > Someone who loves her and loves to make love to her. Someone who
> puts
> > > her first above anything or anyone else so she can do the same for
> > > him.
> >
> > Propaganda
> >
> > >
> > > Yours sincerely,
> > >
> > > Dianne
> > >
> > > >Women say they want a nice guy, when what they really want is to
> tame a
> > > >player. That takes sexual power to accomplish, and without the
> challenge
> > > >they won't have a reason to be sexy.
> > >
> > > >It's up to women to change this reward system and men to exploit
it
> until
> > > >such time arrives.
> >
> > --
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > Unix Systems Engineer
> > ICQ # 3056642
> >
> > A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
> >
> > B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
> >
> > C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
> > sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
> > that she doesn't like.
> >
> > D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
> >
> > E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> > ...despite (D) above.
> >
> > F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
> > response until their behavior improves.
> >
> >
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
--
(this sig intentionally left blank)
jdh...@ubsi.com
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <aku...@alt.net> wrote:
> Dianne wrote:
> >
> > Somehow I think that you misunderstand the meaning of "propaganda"
but
> > no matter.
> >
> > >> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time.
That
> > >> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
> >
> > >Propaganda
> >
> > >> Second, I have no interest in taming a player. I don't like
players.
> > >> I don't know any woman who wants to tame a player.
> >
> > >Propaganda
> >
> > >> Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved
intimately.
> > >> It is not a power thing for women.
> >
> > >Propaganda
> >
> > >> girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
> > >> saying. Women do not want men like this.
> >
> > >But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
> >
> > romantic partner they should have?
>
> Don't play dumb.
>
> >
have
> > >> long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All
women
> >
> > >But you whore around with them anyways
> >
> > "whore" around?
>
> You're still playing dumb.
By what standard is that 'playing dumb', Aaron? Specifically, how are
you distinguishing between what she wrote and an honest inquiry?
Justin Hiltscher
>
> >
> > Yours sincerely,
> >
> > Dianne
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
>
> C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
> sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
> that she doesn't like.
>
> D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
>
> E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (D) above.
>
> F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
> response until their behavior improves.
>
--
Dianne
>This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
>girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
>guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
><-------This presumes that you KNOW he is this way. Many women wind up
>fooled. Are you saying you're immune to being played?
Women learn early on how to tell a player.
>Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved intimately.
>It is not a power thing for women.
><-------But when a woman expects a man to appreciate her or want her and
>he doesn't, they want to CHANGE that to where he does.
If a man doesn't appreciate me or want me then that is that. There
are billions of men out there and I'm not going to get upset if one
doesn't want me. I'm sure many don't.
><---------Again, you'd have to know he was cheating. You also said
>something interesting, because the only men who would be "whining losers"
>under your system are men who aren't getting laid. Men who are getting
>laid will appear confident, which is what I said.
My idea of a whinging loser has very little to do with how much sex he
is getting.
>A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
>ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
>her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
>not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
>Someone who loves her and loves to make love to her. Someone who puts
>her first above anything or anyone else so she can do the same for
>him.
><---------You forgot "tall and attractive, and earning a decent living."
>That cuts your field down considerably.
Probably because those items are not very important.
You sound to me like a very angry young man, Ray. I think you need to
take a step back and take stock.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Dianne
>> >> Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
>> >> girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
>> >> saying. Women do not want men like this.
>> >But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
>> Who are they? They who? Who are you to tell anyone what sort of
>> romantic partner they should have?
>Don't play dumb.
Looks like a cop-out. Sounds like a co-out. Could be a cop-out.
How come you won't answer?
>> >But you whore around with them anyways
>> Who do you know who I "whore" around with? What do you mean by
>> "whore" around?
>You're still playing dumb.
Another cop-out. This is getting bad, Aaron.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Courageous
> >fooled. Are you saying you're immune to being played?
>
> Women learn early on how to tell a player.
The players are remarkably adept at taking on the precise
personality of the "not a player type", Dianne. The best
ones are emotional chamaeleons. Totally charming.
> If a man doesn't appreciate me or want me then that is that. There
> are billions of men out there and I'm not going to get upset if one
> doesn't want me. I'm sure many don't.
This isn't about you, Dianne.
> You sound to me like a very angry young man, Ray. I think you need to
> take a step back and take stock.
This is probably true, but irrelevant as all ad-hominem is.
In the realm of reason, one does not attack a message on the
basis of the messenger. Ray's a big dickhead. Yeah, so? He
already knows this, and in all likelihood embraces it outright.
On particularly full moons, Ray probably lights black candles
and chants, "Sum ego dickheadus" in bizarre invocations to dark
gods.
C/
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> >> >> Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
> >> >> girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
> >> >> saying. Women do not want men like this.
>
> >> >But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
>
> >> Who are they? They who? Who are you to tell anyone what sort of
> >> romantic partner they should have?
>
> >Don't play dumb.
>
> Looks like a cop-out. Sounds like a co-out. Could be a cop-out.
You're still playing dumb.
Hint: Playing dumb is unbecomming.
>
> How come you won't answer?
>
> >> >But you whore around with them anyways
>
> >> Who do you know who I "whore" around with? What do you mean by
> >> "whore" around?
>
> >You're still playing dumb.
>
> Another cop-out. This is getting bad, Aaron.
As I said, it's VERY unbecoming.
>
> Yours sincerely,
Get real!
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> >This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
> >First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
> >girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
> >guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>
> >fooled. Are you saying you're immune to being played?
>
> Women learn early on how to tell a player.
More PROPAGANDA
That's why women keep complaining about how they get burned time
after time after time.
How, when I mention the concept of a "Great Guy" to many of them,
they say, "They don't exist".
That ONLY comes with going out with player after player after player.
>
> >Third, women feel sexy when they are appreciated and loved intimately.
> >It is not a power thing for women.
>
> ><-------But when a woman expects a man to appreciate her or want her and
> >he doesn't, they want to CHANGE that to where he does.
>
> If a man doesn't appreciate me or want me then that is that. There
> are billions of men out there and I'm not going to get upset if one
> doesn't want me. I'm sure many don't.
>
> ><---------Again, you'd have to know he was cheating. You also said
> >something interesting, because the only men who would be "whining losers"
> >under your system are men who aren't getting laid. Men who are getting
> >laid will appear confident, which is what I said.
>
> My idea of a whinging loser has very little to do with how much sex he
> is getting.
>
> >A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
> >ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
> >her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
> >not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
> >Someone who loves her and loves to make love to her. Someone who puts
> >her first above anything or anyone else so she can do the same for
> >him.
>
> ><---------You forgot "tall and attractive, and earning a decent living."
> >That cuts your field down considerably.
>
> Probably because those items are not very important.
>
> You sound to me like a very angry young man, Ray. I think you need to
> take a step back and take stock.
>
> Yours sincerely,
Dianne
>> >> >> Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
>> >> >> girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
>> >> >> saying. Women do not want men like this.
>> >> >But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
>> >> Who are they? They who? Who are you to tell anyone what sort of
>> >> romantic partner they should have?
>> >Don't play dumb.
>> Looks like a cop-out. Sounds like a co-out. Could be a cop-out.
>You're still playing dumb.
>Hint: Playing dumb is unbecomming.
Avoiding the question is also very unbecoming. I suggest either you
answer it or admit to being wrong.
>> How come you won't answer?
>> >> >But you whore around with them anyways
>> >> Who do you know who I "whore" around with? What do you mean by
>> >> "whore" around?
>> >You're still playing dumb.
>> Another cop-out. This is getting bad, Aaron.
>As I said, it's VERY unbecoming.
You specifically said I was whoring around with guys. How do you know
this?
I am certainly not the one playing dumb here.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Dianne
>> Women learn early on how to tell a player.
>The players are remarkably adept at taking on the precise
>personality of the "not a player type", Dianne. The best
>ones are emotional chamaeleons. Totally charming.
I get the idea here, not just from your post, but from the many posts
from the various men, that women aren't capable of choosing a good
mate and are unable of detecting a "player". I also get the feeling
that the men here know obiviously who a player is automatically.
Do you ever wonder why women get so irritated sometimes?
>> If a man doesn't appreciate me or want me then that is that. There
>> are billions of men out there and I'm not going to get upset if one
>> doesn't want me. I'm sure many don't.
>This isn't about you, Dianne.
The problem is that most women I know would not be upset about that
either. If they had been going with the guy for several months and he
suddenly said that he didn't want them I could understand them being
upset a bit, but they will get over it. However, if a man just met
doesn't want a woman the woman is not going to be floored by this.
>> You sound to me like a very angry young man, Ray. I think you need to
>> take a step back and take stock.
>This is probably true, but irrelevant as all ad-hominem is.
>In the realm of reason, one does not attack a message on the
>basis of the messenger. Ray's a big dickhead. Yeah, so? He
>already knows this, and in all likelihood embraces it outright.
>On particularly full moons, Ray probably lights black candles
>and chants, "Sum ego dickheadus" in bizarre invocations to dark
>gods.
I don't believe that he knows this at all. I like to remind him often
in hopes that he'll get some help.
Ray is very good at twisting a lot of lies around with a dash of truth
to make him look very good to people who want to place blame
somewhere.
I don't think that is right.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Courageous
> from the various men, that women aren't capable of choosing a good
> mate and are unable of detecting a "player". I also get the feeling
> that the men here know obiviously who a player is automatically.
> Do you ever wonder why women get so irritated sometimes?
The men tell eachother. Or get to observe the guy taking in
girl after girl, over time. Each girl, being new, is unsuspecting.
Without that, none of these men here would know, either.
About the only thing for a girl to do would be to avoid
charming men outright, and you and I both know that
wouldn't work. Besides, in all truth, most of the players
I know would make wonderful mates if they only settled down.
> The problem is that most women I know would not be upset about that
> either. If they had been going with the guy for several months and he
> suddenly said that he didn't want them I could understand them being
> upset a bit, but they will get over it. However, if a man just met
> doesn't want a woman the woman is not going to be floored by this.
It's not about being upset, it's about feeling a bit of a challenge
with a guy. This goes for both sexes with the opposite sex, I believe.
I've found the best way to get a girl to really go head over heels for
a man is for the man to start dating her, but at the very beginning
state "I'm not ready for a relationship yet; we need to take this
very slow." Same goes for women of men. Hard to get, but not impossible.
Unavailable, but available. Present, but out of reach. Perhaps it's
because when something is just out of reach, somehow it feels less
emotionally risky (when in fact just the opposite is true).
[re: Ray being a dickhead].
> I don't believe that he knows this at all. I like to remind him often
> in hopes that he'll get some help.
Sure he does [I know this for a fact]. He's well aware of the reaction
that he instills in other people. He merely doesn't care. I'm quite
sure that "Ray" is well aware of what many people think of his abrasive
personality. Using usenet as a forum to "try to get him to get help"
is a waste of literary investment.
C/
Aaron R. Kulkis
Did you marry, or do you intend to marry, the FIRST guy you ever dated?
If not, why not?
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> >> Women learn early on how to tell a player.
>
> >The players are remarkably adept at taking on the precise
> >personality of the "not a player type", Dianne. The best
> >ones are emotional chamaeleons. Totally charming.
>
> from the various men, that women aren't capable of choosing a good
> mate and are unable of detecting a "player". I also get the feeling
> that the men here know obiviously who a player is automatically.
>
> Do you ever wonder why women get so irritated sometimes?
Because you'er tooo fucking STUPID to listen to men...
You see...MEN DO NOT CONCEAL THEIR "PLAYER TRAITS" from other MEN...
Duuuuuuuh!
Just as gold-digger women don't conceal those traits from other WOMEN
Duhhhh
you really are naive, aren't you?????
>
> >> If a man doesn't appreciate me or want me then that is that. There
> >> are billions of men out there and I'm not going to get upset if one
> >> doesn't want me. I'm sure many don't.
>
> >This isn't about you, Dianne.
>
> The problem is that most women I know would not be upset about that
> either. If they had been going with the guy for several months and he
> suddenly said that he didn't want them I could understand them being
> upset a bit, but they will get over it. However, if a man just met
> doesn't want a woman the woman is not going to be floored by this.
>
> >> You sound to me like a very angry young man, Ray. I think you need to
> >> take a step back and take stock.
>
> >This is probably true, but irrelevant as all ad-hominem is.
> >In the realm of reason, one does not attack a message on the
> >basis of the messenger. Ray's a big dickhead. Yeah, so? He
> >already knows this, and in all likelihood embraces it outright.
> >On particularly full moons, Ray probably lights black candles
> >and chants, "Sum ego dickheadus" in bizarre invocations to dark
> >gods.
>
> I don't believe that he knows this at all. I like to remind him often
> in hopes that he'll get some help.
>
> Ray is very good at twisting a lot of lies around with a dash of truth
> to make him look very good to people who want to place blame
> somewhere.
>
> I don't think that is right.
>
Dianne
>> I get the idea here, not just from your post, but from the many posts
>> from the various men, that women aren't capable of choosing a good
>> mate and are unable of detecting a "player". I also get the feeling
>> that the men here know obiviously who a player is automatically.
>> Do you ever wonder why women get so irritated sometimes?
>The men tell eachother. Or get to observe the guy taking in
>girl after girl, over time. Each girl, being new, is unsuspecting.
>Without that, none of these men here would know, either.
>About the only thing for a girl to do would be to avoid
>charming men outright, and you and I both know that
>wouldn't work. Besides, in all truth, most of the players
>I know would make wonderful mates if they only settled down.
You don't really know women if you don't know that women are well
aware there are players out there just looking for sex. We know this
and are able to identify them. Of course, there are women out there
as well who either just want sex themselves or miss one or two clues
about the player. In the latter the woman rants about it for a bit
then gets over it. It's not going to ruin us for future dating
because one guy decided he just wanted to have sex with us and leave
it at that. We're all grown ups you know.
>> The problem is that most women I know would not be upset about that
>> either. If they had been going with the guy for several months and he
>> suddenly said that he didn't want them I could understand them being
>> upset a bit, but they will get over it. However, if a man just met
>> doesn't want a woman the woman is not going to be floored by this.
>It's not about being upset, it's about feeling a bit of a challenge
>with a guy. This goes for both sexes with the opposite sex, I believe.
>I've found the best way to get a girl to really go head over heels for
>a man is for the man to start dating her, but at the very beginning
>state "I'm not ready for a relationship yet; we need to take this
>very slow." Same goes for women of men. Hard to get, but not impossible.
>Unavailable, but available. Present, but out of reach. Perhaps it's
>because when something is just out of reach, somehow it feels less
>emotionally risky (when in fact just the opposite is true).
Sorry, but I start out all relationships slow and a bit unready for
them. I don't rush headlong into anything. I would think that this
is the sensible way of doing these sorts of things.
>[re: Ray being a dickhead].
>> I don't believe that he knows this at all. I like to remind him often
>> in hopes that he'll get some help.
>Sure he does [I know this for a fact]. He's well aware of the reaction
>that he instills in other people. He merely doesn't care. I'm quite
>sure that "Ray" is well aware of what many people think of his abrasive
>personality. Using usenet as a forum to "try to get him to get help"
>is a waste of literary investment.
If Ray is aware of the reaction that he instills and doesn't care why
do you care when I tell him to get help? It is just Usenet after all.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> >> I get the idea here, not just from your post, but from the many posts
> >> from the various men, that women aren't capable of choosing a good
> >> mate and are unable of detecting a "player". I also get the feeling
> >> that the men here know obiviously who a player is automatically.
> >> Do you ever wonder why women get so irritated sometimes?
>
> >The men tell eachother. Or get to observe the guy taking in
> >girl after girl, over time. Each girl, being new, is unsuspecting.
> >Without that, none of these men here would know, either.
> >About the only thing for a girl to do would be to avoid
> >charming men outright, and you and I both know that
> >wouldn't work. Besides, in all truth, most of the players
> >I know would make wonderful mates if they only settled down.
>
> You don't really know women if you don't know that women are well
> aware there are players out there just looking for sex. We know this
Then why are the players so successful?????
> and are able to identify them. Of course, there are women out there
After they dump you.
> as well who either just want sex themselves or miss one or two clues
> about the player. In the latter the woman rants about it for a bit
> then gets over it. It's not going to ruin us for future dating
> because one guy decided he just wanted to have sex with us and leave
> it at that. We're all grown ups you know.
in your fantasy land.
Most American women I've met are only "grown up" when they're getting
their own way. As soon as they have to deal with the fact that OTHER
people sometimes have needs/desires which conflict with theirs, then
they throw temper-tantrums that would make the average 3-year old
mighty proud. Yourself included.
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> >> You don't really know women if you don't know that women are well
> >> aware there are players out there just looking for sex. We know this
>
> >Then why are the players so successful?????
>
> different woman every night? A guy who has sex more then you? A guy
> who tells you he's having sex every night with a different woman?
A guy who dumps you because he's done using you.
> >> as well who either just want sex themselves or miss one or two clues
> >> about the player. In the latter the woman rants about it for a bit
> >> then gets over it. It's not going to ruin us for future dating
> >> because one guy decided he just wanted to have sex with us and leave
> >> it at that. We're all grown ups you know.
>
> >in your fantasy land.
>
> >Most American women I've met are only "grown up" when they're getting
> >their own way. As soon as they have to deal with the fact that OTHER
> >people sometimes have needs/desires which conflict with theirs, then
> >they throw temper-tantrums that would make the average 3-year old
> >mighty proud. Yourself included.
>
> First off, reminding you yet again...I'm not American. I don't speak
> for American women. I speak for women in general but not all women.
>
> Second, if you treat a woman like she is an idiot child you will get
> no place with her. No wonder you have so much trouble with women if
> you have this attitude.
Dianne
>> >> >> >But those ARE the men they usually CHOOSE
>> >> >> Who are they? They who? Who are you to tell anyone what sort of
>> >> >> romantic partner they should have?
>> >> >Don't play dumb.
>> >> Looks like a cop-out. Sounds like a co-out. Could be a cop-out.
>> >You're still playing dumb.
>> >Hint: Playing dumb is unbecomming.
>> Avoiding the question is also very unbecoming. I suggest either you
>> answer it or admit to being wrong.
You didn't answer this one.
>> >> >> >But you whore around with them anyways
>> >> >> Who do you know who I "whore" around with? What do you mean by
>> >> >> "whore" around?
>> >> >You're still playing dumb.
>> >> Another cop-out. This is getting bad, Aaron.
>> >As I said, it's VERY unbecoming.
>> You specifically said I was whoring around with guys. How do you know
>> this?
>> I am certainly not the one playing dumb here.
>Did you marry, or do you intend to marry, the FIRST guy you ever dated?
>If not, why not?
Hahahahaha! I nearly dropped my laptop when I broke up laughing
reading this.
Okay, because I didn't intend to marry the first guy I ever dated I
was whoring around with him! Were you whoring around with the first
girl you ever dated? Surely you didn't intend to marry her.
Every woman on the face of this earth who didn't intend to marry the
first guy she dated has now become a whore! You've turned the
majority of the female population of earth into whores in one simply
sentence.
You're too funny. Get a brain.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Dianne
>> You don't really know women if you don't know that women are well
>> aware there are players out there just looking for sex. We know this
>Then why are the players so successful?????
How do you define a successful player? A guy who has sex with a
different woman every night? A guy who has sex more then you? A guy
who tells you he's having sex every night with a different woman?
>> as well who either just want sex themselves or miss one or two clues
Courageous
> aware there are players out there just looking for sex. We know this
You need to take a literary cold shower; I never implied
anything of the kind.
> Sorry, but I start out all relationships slow and a bit unready for
> them.
You're probably a real heartbreaker, then. :)
> If Ray is aware of the reaction that he instills and doesn't care why
> do you care when I tell him to get help? It is just Usenet after all.
Not particularly, no.
C/
Wayne J. Rasmussen
: Dianne wrote:
:>
:> This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
:>
:> First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
:> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
:> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
: The guys who cheat aren't going to tell you, Dianne.
: Rather their behavior changes in such a way as to make
: them subtley more desireable to women in general. My
: favorite technique: tell the girl you aren't looking
: for a relationship. Suddenly she wants you.
: ba-da-bing
:> Second, I have no interest in taming a player.
: This isn't about you, Dianne.
:> Fifth, if a guy wants to have a girlfriend, a steady long term
:> girlfriend he'll have to do exactly the opposite to what you are
:> saying. Women do not want men like this. Men like this never have
:> long term rewarding relationships. Never, not once, ever. All women
:> know to avoid these men and do so studiously.
: What a crock. My best friend is a player. Women fall all
: over him. This is typical of players: women fall all over
: them. And no, they don't want to "just use him for sex".
: They fall in love, again and again, time after time, so
: many times it's past hilarious and into deeply sick. There's
: a reason players can play, Dianne: the women go for them.
They go for them over and over again. The players are obviously
using techniques that are successful at getting women to go out
with them. And who teaches them the good techniques to use? women.
Wayne J. Rasmussen
:>>> This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
:>>> First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
:>>> girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
:>>> guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
:>>The guys who cheat aren't going to tell you, Dianne.
:> You think the word won't get around?
: That's definitely right. Anyone with half a brain can figure out if
: man is cheating on them. Several clues:
: they don't want you to meet their friends
Yet, many gals don't want guys to show them off to his friends too
early. Better to keep a distance between friends and GF for a little
while.
: they don't want you to meet their families
Hell, I don't want to meet my family. This has to be one of the
weakest "tests" often touted as good advice. Perhaps there is a
damn good reason that someone doesn't want to meet with the families.
Examples: abusive households.
: they have weak excuses for whispered cellphone calls
Why the hell is it your business? Why are you listening
in?
: you find a berette in between the seats of his car
How long has it been there? Perhaps this is from a previous GF?
Or do you inspect and mark your territory?
: he refuses to tell you where is going one night after a casual question
I find it difficult to believe that it was a casual question. Sounds
more like a reaction to a third degree, or someone under the thumb of
a person who has low self-esteem questioning every little thing out of
fear.
Pete Turk
<w...@netcom4.netcom.com> writes
>
>They go for them over and over again. The players are obviously
>using techniques that are successful at getting women to go out
>with them. And who teaches them the good techniques to use? women.
>
The player simply won't see the women it won't work on
-- and why should he need to? -- or want to?
But that's not to say they don't exist.
Pete Turk
<w...@netcom4.netcom.com> writes
>Dianne <adv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>: That's definitely right. Anyone with half a brain can figure out if
>: man is cheating on them. Several clues:
>
>: they don't want you to meet their friends
>
>Yet, many gals don't want guys to show them off to his friends too
>early. Better to keep a distance between friends and GF for a little
>while.
>
>: they don't want you to meet their families
>
>Hell, I don't want to meet my family. This has to be one of the
>weakest "tests" often touted as good advice. Perhaps there is a
>damn good reason that someone doesn't want to meet with the families.
>Examples: abusive households.
see above.
>: they have weak excuses for whispered cellphone calls
>
>Why the hell is it your business? Why are you listening
>in?
see above,
>
>: you find a berette in between the seats of his car
>
>How long has it been there? Perhaps this is from a previous GF?
>Or do you inspect and mark your territory?
see above.
>
>: he refuses to tell you where is going one night after a casual question
>
>I find it difficult to believe that it was a casual question. Sounds
>more like a reaction to a third degree, or someone under the thumb of
>a person who has low self-esteem questioning every little thing out of
>fear.
So... you think the word won't get around?
Pete Turk
<aku...@alt.net> writes
>
>You see...MEN DO NOT CONCEAL THEIR "PLAYER TRAITS" from other MEN...
>
Only an idiot wouldn't conceal player-traits, gold-digger
traits, confidence-trickster traits or life-of-crime traits
from *everyone*, Aaron -- excepting perhaps people *just* like
them.
Or are you saying Detroit is populated by idiots? Or by just
one idiot?
>
>you really are naive, aren't you?????
You're projecting, Aaron.
Pete Turk
<aku...@alt.net> writes
>Dianne wrote:
>>
>> >This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
>> >First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
>> >girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
>> >guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>>
>> >fooled. Are you saying you're immune to being played?
>>
>
If you must use words you don't understand -- try a dictionary.
Pete Turk
<aku...@alt.net> writes
>Dianne wrote:
>>
>> >> You don't really know women if you don't know that women are well
>> >> aware there are players out there just looking for sex. We know this
>>
>>
>> How do you define a successful player? A guy who has sex with a
>> different woman every night? A guy who has sex more then you? A guy
>> who tells you he's having sex every night with a different woman?
>
Then any woman who dumped *you* Aaron because she's
done using *you* is a successful player, Aaron?
Doug M
are applying reasonable logic to an illogical situation. Dating and mating
are not logical.
Douglas
>
> I don't believe that he knows this at all. I like to remind him often
> in hopes that he'll get some help.
>
Pete Turk
spring.com> writes
>Dianne, I think that you are a very intelligent woman. Unfortunately, you
>are applying reasonable logic to an illogical situation. Dating and mating
>are not logical.
>
> Douglas
I don't understand how you see dating and mating as not
logical. In their own terms, they often make very good sense
indeed.
If dating and mating were not logical, then you'd be
dating someone who repelled you, someone who had nothing else to
offer -- but you'd refuse to date anyone you were really
attracted to -- for no good reason whatever!
Similarly with mating.
Do you find this happening as a rule? -- I don't.
Dianne
>>Dianne, I think that you are a very intelligent woman. Unfortunately, you
>>are applying reasonable logic to an illogical situation. Dating and mating
>>are not logical.
> I don't understand how you see dating and mating as not
> logical. In their own terms, they often make very good sense
> indeed.
> If dating and mating were not logical, then you'd be
> dating someone who repelled you, someone who had nothing else to
> offer -- but you'd refuse to date anyone you were really
> attracted to -- for no good reason whatever!
> Similarly with mating.
> Do you find this happening as a rule? -- I don't.
Actually, I think this man has a bit of a point. It's not very
logical the things that turn a person on. It's not very logical that
some people takes years to fall in love and others just one glance.
There is a bit of logic with it though. You wouldn't go out with
someone who is not attractive to you (at least not very long).
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Wayne J. Rasmussen
: In article <8325ve$85c$3...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, Wayne J. Rasmussen
: <w...@netcom4.netcom.com> writes
:>Dianne <adv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:>
:>: That's definitely right. Anyone with half a brain can figure out if
:>: man is cheating on them. Several clues:
:>
:>: they don't want you to meet their friends
:>
:>Yet, many gals don't want guys to show them off to his friends too
:>early. Better to keep a distance between friends and GF for a little
:>while.
: So... you think the word won't get around?
What word? A friend of mine took a gal on his first date with her
last spring. You know what he did, to brought her to a movie at a
time and place where he could see his guy friends just so he could
intorduce her as his girlfriend. You could see that she got annoyed
by this comment and she dumped him right after the movie.
I don't cheat. If I am dating around tell them I am dating around. If
they want to have a committed relationship, we can negotiate. If they
don't like it, they can leave. Where does it say that you are committed
after the first date? This isn't to be assumed, but, to be talked about
(at least if the people are adults).
:>
:>: they don't want you to meet their families
:>
:>Hell, I don't want to meet my family. This has to be one of the
:>weakest "tests" often touted as good advice. Perhaps there is a
:>damn good reason that someone doesn't want to meet with the families.
:>Examples: abusive households.
: see above.
:>: they have weak excuses for whispered cellphone calls
:>
:>Why the hell is it your business? Why are you listening
:>in?
: see above,
:>
:>: you find a berette in between the seats of his car
:>
:>How long has it been there? Perhaps this is from a previous GF?
:>Or do you inspect and mark your territory?
: see above.
:>
:>: he refuses to tell you where is going one night after a casual question
:>
:>I find it difficult to believe that it was a casual question. Sounds
:>more like a reaction to a third degree, or someone under the thumb of
:>a person who has low self-esteem questioning every little thing out of
:>fear.
: So... you think the word won't get around?
I guess word reached up your butt where you head is. :)
Wayne J. Rasmussen
: In article <8325dq$85c$2...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, Wayne J. Rasmussen
: <w...@netcom4.netcom.com> writes
:>
:>They go for them over and over again. The players are obviously
:>using techniques that are successful at getting women to go out
:>with them. And who teaches them the good techniques to use? women.
:>
: No Wayne -- only *some* women.
Pete, you are obviously an average intelligent guy. Where did I say
a quantity of women? I didn't say all women. All women are not implied.
If you want to imply a number, it would be the number of women to whom
this does apply. Or to say, that number of women to do the
aforementioned thing.
Wayne J. Rasmussen
: them. I don't rush headlong into anything. I would think that this
: is the sensible way of doing these sorts of things.
Dianne,
perhaps you could explain to me the following. Why is that when I find a
gal who "wants to take things slowly" they seem to be either the "User" type
of person or the "fear of intimacy" type of person?
To me, a relationship is hotest at the beginning. When the brakes are on
HARD, it makes me feel that she really isn't interested in me. Women can
say whatever they want and often do. The only thing that is valid is
the actions they do. The rest is just lip service.
Courageous
> gal who "wants to take things slowly" they seem to be either the "User" type
> of person or the "fear of intimacy" type of person?
If someone tells me that "they're not looking for a relationship,"
I simply take it for what it really means: they don't want a
relationship with *me*...
C/
Doug M
Pete Turk <Pe...@ragtag.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zgfgeGAG...@ragtag.demon.co.uk...
> >are applying reasonable logic to an illogical situation. Dating and
mating
> >are not logical.
> >
>
> I don't understand how you see dating and mating as not
> logical. In their own terms, they often make very good sense
> indeed.
>
> If dating and mating were not logical, then you'd be
> dating someone who repelled you, someone who had nothing else to
> offer -- but you'd refuse to date anyone you were really
> attracted to -- for no good reason whatever!
>
> Similarly with mating.
>
> Do you find this happening as a rule? -- I don't.
>
That's it!!!!
Dating and mating are biological. There is a biological logic, if you will,
but it does not always follow social logic. I firmly believe in pheremones.
That is, some people literally smell correct and your brain responds. I
believe in lust and love. I believe in the seduction of excitement. I
believe in the myths of social fashion. I believe in primal urges. All of
the above are not logical.
Douglas
Dianne
>:>: That's definitely right. Anyone with half a brain can figure out if
>:>: man is cheating on them. Several clues:
>:>: they don't want you to meet their friends
>:>Yet, many gals don't want guys to show them off to his friends too
>:>early. Better to keep a distance between friends and GF for a little
>:>while.
>: So... you think the word won't get around?
>What word? A friend of mine took a gal on his first date with her
>last spring. You know what he did, to brought her to a movie at a
>time and place where he could see his guy friends just so he could
>intorduce her as his girlfriend. You could see that she got annoyed
>by this comment and she dumped him right after the movie.
>I don't cheat. If I am dating around tell them I am dating around. If
>they want to have a committed relationship, we can negotiate. If they
>don't like it, they can leave. Where does it say that you are committed
>after the first date? This isn't to be assumed, but, to be talked about
>(at least if the people are adults).
We aren't talking about the first date, we're talking about having
gone out with someone for several months to the point of seriousness
(at least on one side)
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Dianne
>: Sorry, but I start out all relationships slow and a bit unready for
>: them. I don't rush headlong into anything. I would think that this
>: is the sensible way of doing these sorts of things.
>perhaps you could explain to me the following. Why is that when I find a
>gal who "wants to take things slowly" they seem to be either the "User" type
>of person or the "fear of intimacy" type of person?
>To me, a relationship is hotest at the beginning. When the brakes are on
>HARD, it makes me feel that she really isn't interested in me. Women can
>say whatever they want and often do. The only thing that is valid is
>the actions they do. The rest is just lip service.
Sure, a relationship can be hot in the beginning but don't expect the
emotional attachment a long term relationship has. I'm not ready to
give my mind over to someone straight off. They don't even get my
body straight off.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
t...@delphi.com
> When you use a word -- find out what it means.
Like your use of "bilge"?
DB
t...@delphi.com
>Why do women not go out with nice guys? Because they don't want to see those
>men turn into jerks once the relationship starts. The stupid thing is that
>many, many women date nice guys last, only to learn that relationship with
>them are actually for real and workable. They ask themselves, "Why did I
>spend all that time with those other idiots? Ahhh!!" That is, nice guys
>actually turn out to be great mates.
Unfortunately, by the time they reach this stage most women are
damaged goods. They're lucky that the decent men are desperate
enough to settle for women like them.
DB
t...@delphi.com
>
>>This is utter crap. Don't listen to what he is saying.
>>First, I would never ever go out with a guy who a) has a wife or
>>girlfriend, or b) is sleeping with other women at the same time. That
>>guy is a slimeball and I want nothing to do with him.
>
>><-------This presumes that you KNOW he is this way. Many women wind up
>>fooled. Are you saying you're immune to being played?
>
>Women learn early on how to tell a player.
That explains why there are so few damaged goods divorcees with other men's
kids in our society!
DB
t...@delphi.com
>>The players are remarkably adept at taking on the precise
>>personality of the "not a player type", Dianne. The best
>>ones are emotional chamaeleons. Totally charming.
>
>I get the idea here, not just from your post, but from the many posts
>from the various men, that women aren't capable of choosing a good
>mate and are unable of detecting a "player". I also get the feeling
>that the men here know obiviously who a player is automatically.
The first is confirmed by the number of bitter divorcees with kids around.
Had they chosen good mates they'd still be married.
And yes, many of us can spot the ConfidentExcitingAssholes a mile away,
like the slimy little weasel my cousin married and later (predictably)
divorced.
>Do you ever wonder why women get so irritated sometimes?
>>This is probably true, but irrelevant as all ad-hominem is.
>>In the realm of reason, one does not attack a message on the
>>basis of the messenger. Ray's a big dickhead. Yeah, so? He
>>already knows this, and in all likelihood embraces it outright.
>>On particularly full moons, Ray probably lights black candles
>>and chants, "Sum ego dickheadus" in bizarre invocations to dark
>>gods.
>
>I don't believe that he knows this at all. I like to remind him often
>in hopes that he'll get some help.
so to you, which is why you attack him so often.
DB
t...@delphi.com
> I don't understand how you see dating and mating as not
> logical. In their own terms, they often make very good sense
> indeed.
>
> If dating and mating were not logical, then you'd be
> dating someone who repelled you, someone who had nothing else to
> offer -- but you'd refuse to date anyone you were really
> attracted to -- for no good reason whatever!
> Similarly with mating.
>
> Do you find this happening as a rule? -- I don't.
proclaim they want nice guys while rewarding assholes with sex....
DB
ice99
original discussion. I am a nice guy and my girlfriend is
always asking me to talk to her. I talk a lot but when she
tells me to just talk to her I don't know what to say. I
love talking to her when something comes up. What can I do
to come up with some "good" conversation when she wants it.
She tells me when I ask her that she doesn't know what she
wants me to talk about. So it could be romantic or not. Do
you have any ideas. Please help.
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Dianne
>>I get the idea here, not just from your post, but from the many posts
>>from the various men, that women aren't capable of choosing a good
>>mate and are unable of detecting a "player". I also get the feeling
>>that the men here know obiviously who a player is automatically.
>Both statements are correct.
>The first is confirmed by the number of bitter divorcees with kids around.
>Had they chosen good mates they'd still be married.
Ah, so a grown woman is not capable of choosing a partner for herself?
Perhaps she should consult you first for approval on her dates?
>And yes, many of us can spot the ConfidentExcitingAssholes a mile away,
>like the slimy little weasel my cousin married and later (predictably)
>divorced.
So? Why do you care? It is her life. Let her live her life how she
wants. You live your life how you want. You don't need all this hate
and anger against other people. They don't care that you hate them,
it doesn't hurt them after all, only you.
>>I don't believe that he knows this at all. I like to remind him often
>>in hopes that he'll get some help.
>Help or not, his insights are quite amazing at times. No doubt disconcertingly
>so to you, which is why you attack him so often.
Actually, I make fun of him because he's hilarious when he starts to
threaten to sue me.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
User
> >>On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:05:40 GMT, joe...@yahoo.com (Joe Dlhopolsky) wrote:
> >On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 03:48:44 GMT, adv...@hotmail.com (Dianne) wrote:
> >> We also avoid whinging
> >>losers who tell us that they are nice guys all the time.
> Real 'nice guys' don't have to broadcast it, they prove it with every
> breath, etc. Actions speak louder then blah, blah, blah..
Thats exactly the behaviour I expect from bad guys. The good
guys tend to be shy for they respect women.
> >>A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
> >>ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
> >>her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
> >>not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
> A real 'nice guy' wants someone who has a brain, who can talk
> her own opinions, and have a life before and after they meet..
Hmm intelligent yes, but I'm again in problems with my bad english...
what does 'have a life before and after they meet' mean ?!?!?
If they fall in love with each other, and they stay together, there
is no 'life after they meet', isn't it ? I'm sorry, english isn't
my native language...
> 'Nice guys' want this too.. IF he is for real, his only desire is
> for her alone, not her looks, wealth or whatever. When he finds that
> person, he doesn't need to look elsewhere..for anything.. Simple?
> Mind you, I am talking perfect situation here..
Very idealized. _IF_ you are _TRUELY_ fallen in love, _THEN_ looks,
wealth etc. doesn't matter anymore, but _BEFORE_IT_ you always need
to be attracted _SOMEHOW_. So at the beginning, your statement is not
true. And even if you have a partner, you always will meet people
which you could fall in love again. And your partner does, as well.
> SHE is his fantasy, his everything..or as Richard Thompson
> wrote "lover, mother, whore and wife"..
Whores don't get any respect or love. If a man thinks of a woman as
being a whore, he thinks of her as a sex object. I really hate this
statement of Thompson.
> OH SO TRUE.. WHY do ladies always think they can 'save' the loser
> from himself..no matter how many times he abuses her, steals, or he
> cheats.."I can change him" is her battle-cry.. A real 'nice guy'
> doesn't want anything to do with such a lady.. She wants control
> of everything and when he revolts, she tries harder. EECCHHH!
Yep.
> Unless the two form a equal partnership, neither 'in charge' of
> the other, it is all fish and vinegar.. Many a guy stays single
> for a long time till he finds such a partnership, and all those women
> who are his 'best friends' see that.. Look at how many women friends
> (I mean friends, not former lovers) he has..and how real they are to
> that friendship..that is a clue.. Those ladies trust him completely
> with their secrets, and for good reason. Which is why many times
> such people become lovers later in life..the guy has PROVEN
> he doesn't just want sex or whatever.
User
> >Did you marry, or do you intend to marry, the FIRST guy you ever dated?
> >If not, why not?
>
> Hahahahaha! I nearly dropped my laptop when I broke up laughing
> reading this.
>
> Okay, because I didn't intend to marry the first guy I ever dated I
> was whoring around with him! Were you whoring around with the first
> girl you ever dated? Surely you didn't intend to marry her.
Maybe not yet. Intend, that is.
> Every woman on the face of this earth who didn't intend to marry the
> first guy she dated has now become a whore! You've turned the
> majority of the female population of earth into whores in one simply
> sentence.
Maybe he meant "having sex the first time" with "dating". Then his
strange statement is maybe understandable. Many people think its
unmoral to have any sex before marriage.
User
> A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
> ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
> her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with
> and not be told what her opinion should be on this or that
> Someone who puts her first above anything or anyone else so she
> can do the same for him.
The same is true for men. So where are the problems ?
User
> Ah, so a grown woman is not capable of choosing a partner for herself?
Not necessarily. The same is true for men. Just because you're
grown up on paper you don't necessarily know which partners
are right for you. You need much knowledge about life and
people to judge about that, more than you have in youth.
> Perhaps she should consult you first for approval on her dates?
Not him (neither me). But asking older people if they think
that your marriage would last is not a bad idea. They have
to know you and your partner, of course, and should be
friends. And not everyone is wiser just because he is older.
> So? Why do you care? It is her life. Let her live her life how she
> wants. You live your life how you want. You don't need all this hate
> and anger against other people. They don't care that you hate them,
> it doesn't hurt them after all, only you.
I can't understand your arguments here. If she said she
doesn't want a jerk, and everyone can see she's attracted to
a jerk, then she's surely not living the life she wants.
User
> Dianne <adv...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > > Are you saying you're immune to being played?
> > Women learn early on how to tell a player.
> kids in our society!
Wrong, that has nothing to do with players. If kids are attracted
to the wrong kind of person of the opposite sex, both might be
serious, but it simply doesn't work. What we call players here is
IMHO not the kind which likes to marry, and therefore doesn't
divorce either.
User
> > 'Nice guys' want this too.. IF he is for real, his only desire is
> > for her alone, not her looks, wealth or whatever. When he finds that
> > person, he doesn't need to look elsewhere..for anything.. Simple?
> > Mind you, I am talking perfect situation here..
>
> Very idealized. _IF_ you are _TRUELY_ fallen in love, _THEN_ looks,
> wealth etc. doesn't matter anymore, but _BEFORE_IT_ you always need
> to be attracted _SOMEHOW_. So at the beginning, your statement is not
> true. And even if you have a partner, you always will meet people
> which you could fall in love again. And your partner does, as well.
Oops I'm sorry I was not precise enough. I just wanted to state
you meet them. Not that you fall in love with them. You just
don't get blind if you're in a true partnership - but trust and
faith are two of the major virtues of love.
jjt
>JJT schrieb:
>> >>On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:05:40 GMT, joe...@yahoo.com (Joe Dlhopolsky) wrote:
>> >On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 03:48:44 GMT, adv...@hotmail.com (Dianne) wrote:
>> >> We also avoid whinging
>> >>losers who tell us that they are nice guys all the time.
>> Real 'nice guys' don't have to broadcast it, they prove it with every
>> breath, etc. Actions speak louder then blah, blah, blah..
>
>Thats exactly the behaviour I expect from bad guys. The good
>guys tend to be shy for they respect women.
That action also includes, nay is built on, not making a
big deal over their affection..it becomes a non-issue,
just everyday behaivor. Bad guys flaunt it so loud one
must wonder if it is only a act. RNG do it so one never
has to ask if it is real...
>
>> >>A woman wants a man who matches her. Who has similar interests and
>> >>ideas. Someone who is kind and gentle to her. Someone who respects
>> >>her boundaries and her person. Someone who she can converse with and
>> >>not be told what her opinion should be on this or that subject.
>> A real 'nice guy' wants someone who has a brain, who can talk
>> her own opinions, and have a life before and after they meet..
>
>Hmm intelligent yes, but I'm again in problems with my bad english...
>what does 'have a life before and after they meet' mean ?!?!?
>If they fall in love with each other, and they stay together, there
>is no 'life after they meet', isn't it ? I'm sorry, english isn't
>my native language...
No problem, act your understanding is very good. I ment,
when they 1st meet, the person has a life..family or friends
or whatever. After they meet, she still has that life outside
the other..then when they 'fall', the two lives join as one.
You can tell, if some guy has no friends, or doesn't want
you to meet them or his family, a red flag should jump
up.. If he has a 'life' you should be welcome into THAT
life.. BEFORE ya 'fall'.
>
>> 'Nice guys' want this too.. IF he is for real, his only desire is
>> for her alone, not her looks, wealth or whatever. When he finds that
>> person, he doesn't need to look elsewhere..for anything.. Simple?
>> Mind you, I am talking perfect situation here..
>
>Very idealized. _IF_ you are _TRUELY_ fallen in love, _THEN_ looks,
>wealth etc. doesn't matter anymore, but _BEFORE_IT_ you always need
>to be attracted _SOMEHOW_. So at the beginning, your statement is not
>true. And even if you have a partner, you always will meet people
>which you could fall in love again. And your partner does, as well.
true. I was speaking after falling in love.
>
>> SHE is his fantasy, his everything..or as Richard Thompson
>> wrote "lover, mother, whore and wife"..
>
>Whores don't get any respect or love. If a man thinks of a woman as
>being a whore, he thinks of her as a sex object. I really hate this
>statement of Thompson.
Well, it made good verse in the song...hehehe.. It ment she was
his everything.. Not that he should treat her as a whore.. More
that she was his sexual fantasy... Which, again in a ideal state,
one's lover IS the other's fantasy.. 'Whore' just was in keeping
of the time the story was written about. But again, loser men
every day go to whores, so they (I guess) have some 'need' to be
such idiots. RNG would'nt even think about such actions, as
it not only degrades women, but him too..he becomes a 'john',
in carny talk a 'rube'..in everyday talk, a 'loser with money'..
jdh...@ubsi.com
ice99 <jbjones2...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> I have a question for you. It has nothing to do with the
> original discussion. I am a nice guy and my girlfriend is
> always asking me to talk to her. I talk a lot but when she
> tells me to just talk to her I don't know what to say. I
> love talking to her when something comes up. What can I do
> to come up with some "good" conversation when she wants it.
> She tells me when I ask her that she doesn't know what she
> wants me to talk about. So it could be romantic or not. Do
> you have any ideas. Please help.
I have the same problem sometimes. Lady asks, 'what are you thinking?',
mind goes ... '', then *panic*, then 'what was I thinking??', then I say
"er... nothing! why?" (and the critic inside my head, who's seen WAY
too many sitcoms goes 'Oh, brother. That didn't sound like *hiding a
guilty secret*, or *I'm not open to talking*. Nahhh. Not at all!')
I've actually been on the other side of that one a few times, but mostly
by blind luck. Remembering to relax, and to breathe, helps. Say
something outrageously stupid. Then laugh at yourself. That sometimes
primes the well for me. Or singing. Hey, she said talk to you, and
didn't suggest a subject, which means she either is being controlling,
and wants you to decide, or she just doesn't care about the subject,
just wants conversation to feel close to you, in which case don't worry
about it, singing will do that pretty well. Good luck!
Justin Hiltscher
>
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is
Beautiful
>
--
(this sig intentionally left blank)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Doug M
Douglas - who had trouble following his own good advice
ice99 <jbjones2...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:179fdf81...@usw-ex0109-069.remarq.com...
> I have a question for you. It has nothing to do with the
> original discussion. I am a nice guy and my girlfriend is
> always asking me to talk to her. I talk a lot but when she
> tells me to just talk to her I don't know what to say. I
> love talking to her when something comes up. What can I do
> to come up with some "good" conversation when she wants it.
> She tells me when I ask her that she doesn't know what she
> wants me to talk about. So it could be romantic or not. Do
> you have any ideas. Please help.
>
>
User
> > > breath, etc. Actions speak louder then blah, blah, blah..
> >Thats exactly the behaviour I expect from bad guys. The good
> >guys tend to be shy for they respect women.
> That action also includes, nay is built on, not making a
> big deal over their affection..it becomes a non-issue,
> just everyday behaivor. Bad guys flaunt it so loud one
> must wonder if it is only a act. RNG do it so one never
> has to ask if it is real...
You cannot decide how deep feelings are, if you just look
at the outer behaviour. The man who cries out loud might
love you as much as the man staying silent. Or less or
more. One cannot know, there is no rule, it just depends
upon character, not on intensity or depth of feelings.
I, for example, am the admirer type. When I was fallen in
love, my love was the most beautiful girl in the world
for me (in fact, she still is). And I told her that. I
really loved it to make compliments to her. I really
loved it to open doors for her. I really really told her
so often that I really love her and that I will wait for
her and that I'll be in hell without her.
And so it was. I was in hell for seven years, then I met
her again and she laughed about that I was still in love
with her and then she said she never had thought she was
meant when I told her I love her. But it really hurts to
remember all that.
> > > A real 'nice guy' wants someone who has a brain, who can talk
> > > her own opinions, and have a life before and after they meet..
> > Hmm intelligent yes, but I'm again in problems with my bad english...
> > what does 'have a life before and after they meet' mean ?!?!?
> > If they fall in love with each other, and they stay together, there
> > is no 'life after they meet', isn't it ? I'm sorry, english isn't
> > my native language...
>
> No problem, act your understanding is very good. I ment,
> when they 1st meet, the person has a life..family or friends
> or whatever. After they meet, she still has that life outside
> the other..then when they 'fall', the two lives join as one.
Yes, I understand now better. I agree, she should have her
own life, too. I remember I've read recently something
about Marilyn, how she married Joe DiMaggio, and Mr.
DiMaggio wanted a housewife(!) while he's actually
marrying an actress. That marriage coudn't work, of
course !
> You can tell, if some guy has no friends, or doesn't want
> you to meet them or his family, a red flag should jump
> up.. If he has a 'life' you should be welcome into THAT
> life.. BEFORE ya 'fall'.
With falling in love I mean the chemistry that your brain
reacts if you meet someone in which you can fall in love.
The brain then starts to produce a certain hormon
(forgotten its name, but its also in chocolate) during a
period of three months, just to help you falling in love.
> >> SHE is his fantasy, his everything..or as Richard Thompson
> >> wrote "lover, mother, whore and wife"..
> >Whores don't get any respect or love. If a man thinks of a woman as
> >being a whore, he thinks of her as a sex object. I really hate this
> >statement of Thompson.
> Well, it made good verse in the song...hehehe.. It ment she was
> his everything..
Yes, okay.
> Not that he should treat her as a whore.. More
> that she was his sexual fantasy... Which, again in a ideal state,
> one's lover IS the other's fantasy..
Hehe, IMHO no need to idealize too much here :) The dream
of the lonely island... together with the beloved... well
know, isn't it ? ;-)
> 'Whore' just was in keeping
> of the time the story was written about. But again, loser men
> every day go to whores, so they (I guess) have some 'need' to be
> such idiots. RNG would'nt even think about such actions, as
> it not only degrades women, but him too..he becomes a 'john',
> in carny talk a 'rube'..in everyday talk, a 'loser with money'..
Well, I think one has to disrespect or even hate women to
go to whores.
User
> I have a question for you. It has nothing to do with the
> original discussion. I am a nice guy and my girlfriend is
> always asking me to talk to her. I talk a lot but when she
> tells me to just talk to her I don't know what to say. I
> love talking to her when something comes up. What can I do
> to come up with some "good" conversation when she wants it.
> She tells me when I ask her that she doesn't know what she
> wants me to talk about. So it could be romantic or not. Do
> you have any ideas. Please help.
She just wants you to do a monologue ? That can't work for
long !
Well I think you can talk about politics (how do you think
world will go on), arts (movies you've seen, music you have
heared, and so on, did you like them or not and why),
philosophy (do you believe in god or not and why, why do we
exist), ....
And of course about you two.
I think a funny game would be: "describe your ideal mate,
how you think it should be": each of you describe how they
think her mate should be. One really learns much about each
other with such games !! And I think that is really
important in marriage, to get closer every day. I've found
out one tells FAR more if you make some kind of questionary
about this kind of questions ;-)
t...@delphi.com
>>The first is confirmed by the number of bitter divorcees with kids around.
>>Had they chosen good mates they'd still be married.
>
part of that didn't you understand?
>>And yes, many of us can spot the ConfidentExcitingAssholes a mile away,
>>like the slimy little weasel my cousin married and later (predictably)
>>divorced.
>
>wants. You live your life how you want. You don't need all this hate
>and anger against other people. They don't care that you hate them,
>it doesn't hurt them after all, only you.
And it does matter to me, because I was willing to settle for damaged goods,
before turning to Asian women.
As Ray has stated so well, American women waste their best years on
assholes, because they can, reasonably sure that they can find sone
\desperate nice guy later in life.
If more men marry overseas, the damaged goods won't have that option any more,
and will spend their years alone. Hopefully younger girls will see this
and not act the same way.
Besides, if I can save just one man from settling for leftovers and damaged
goods, by making him aware of better choices overseas, it's all worth it.
>>Help or not, his insights are quite amazing at times. No doubt disconcertingly
>>so to you, which is why you attack him so often.
>
>Actually, I make fun of him because he's hilarious when he starts to
>threaten to sue me.
DB
t...@delphi.com
>> So? Why do you care? It is her life. Let her live her life how she
>> wants. You live your life how you want. You don't need all this hate
>> and anger against other people. They don't care that you hate them,
>> it doesn't hurt them after all, only you.
>
>doesn't want a jerk, and everyone can see she's attracted to
>a jerk, then she's surely not living the life she wants.
attack on me instead. This is typical for her.
DB
Joe Dlhopolsky
>original discussion. I am a nice guy and my girlfriend is
>always asking me to talk to her. I talk a lot but when she
>tells me to just talk to her I don't know what to say. I
>love talking to her when something comes up. What can I do
>to come up with some "good" conversation when she wants it.
>She tells me when I ask her that she doesn't know what she
>wants me to talk about. So it could be romantic or not. Do
>you have any ideas. Please help.
Talk about her. Ask her questions about herself, about her thoughrts and
feelings. Listen to the answers and follow up on them.
Joe Dlhopolsky
joe...@yahoo.com
Pete Turk
my nose -- long ago told me what bilge was.
Pete Turk <Pe...@ragtag.demon.co.uk> ICQ# 11981084
RFA Moonshadow
--
May your doorstep ever be dirty.
-- Romany blessing
t...@delphi.com
>>> When you use a word -- find out what it means.
>>
>>
>>Like your use of "bilge"?
>>
>>DB
>>
> My hands, fingers, feet and toes -- but especially
> my nose -- long ago told me what bilge was.
DB
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> >>I get the idea here, not just from your post, but from the many posts
> >>from the various men, that women aren't capable of choosing a good
> >>mate and are unable of detecting a "player". I also get the feeling
> >>that the men here know obiviously who a player is automatically.
>
> >Both statements are correct.
>
> >Had they chosen good mates they'd still be married.
>
> Ah, so a grown woman is not capable of choosing a partner for herself?
WHY IS SHE ****DIVORCED***** IF SHE IS SO ****CAPABLE******??????
Or is she just a scheming, gold-digging SLUT??????????
> Perhaps she should consult you first for approval on her dates?
Apparently, ANYTHING would be an improvement over her current method!
>
> >And yes, many of us can spot the ConfidentExcitingAssholes a mile away,
> >like the slimy little weasel my cousin married and later (predictably)
> >divorced.
>
> So? Why do you care? It is her life.
Except for MY TAX DOLLARS have to pay to clean up the messes caused
by HER MISTAKES.
Therefore, it IS MY BUSINESS.
> Let her live her life how she
> wants. You live your life how you want. You don't need all this hate
> and anger against other people. They don't care that you hate them,
> it doesn't hurt them after all, only you.
>
> >>I don't believe that he knows this at all. I like to remind him often
> >>in hopes that he'll get some help.
>
> >Help or not, his insights are quite amazing at times. No doubt disconcertingly
> >so to you, which is why you attack him so often.
>
> Actually, I make fun of him because he's hilarious when he starts to
> threaten to sue me.
>
> Yours sincerely,
"KILL the poor."
--Dead Kennedys
>
> Dianne
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
Dianne
>>> So? Why do you care? It is her life. Let her live her life how she
>>> wants. You live your life how you want. You don't need all this hate
>>> and anger against other people. They don't care that you hate them,
>>> it doesn't hurt them after all, only you.
>>I can't understand your arguments here. If she said she
>>doesn't want a jerk, and everyone can see she's attracted to
>>a jerk, then she's surely not living the life she wants.
>Dianne was incapable of refuting my point, so she launched a pathetic
>attack on me instead. This is typical for her.
It wasn't an attack but advice. I think you should give up
complaining and getting angry about how other people live their lives.
It's their lives. Live your own life how you want to live it but
don't interfere with anyone elses.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Pete Turk
santa loves you
<jbjones2...@hotmail.com.invalid>:
~I have a question for you. It has nothing to do with the
~original discussion. I am a nice guy and my girlfriend is
~always asking me to talk to her. I talk a lot but when she
~tells me to just talk to her I don't know what to say. I
~love talking to her when something comes up. What can I do
~to come up with some "good" conversation when she wants it.
~She tells me when I ask her that she doesn't know what she
~wants me to talk about. So it could be romantic or not. Do
~you have any ideas. Please help.
Get a fucking clue about women, you loser.
santa loves you
~
~Besides, if I can save just one man from settling for leftovers and
damaged
~goods, by making him aware of better choices overseas, it's all worth
it.
What if he doesn't like women with small tits?
santa loves you
<nospam.b...@mindspring.com>:
~Talk about your dreams and ambitions. Describe them.
What if he dreams about felching her ringpiece?
santa loves you
~Dianne was incapable of refuting my point, so she launched a pathetic
~attack on me instead. This is typical for her.
I think you want to fuck her, really.
t...@delphi.com
>It wasn't an attack but advice. I think you should give up
>complaining and getting angry about how other people live their lives.
>It's their lives. Live your own life how you want to live it but
>don't interfere with anyone elses.
of settling for lesser women than they can get. As such a woman you
obviously have a vested interest in the status quo, hence your bullshit
line about "interfering" (since when is advice interfering? When it
disagrees with WomanSpeak dogma, that's when).
DB
t...@delphi.com
;-)
DB
Pete Turk
>Dianne <adv...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>>It wasn't an attack but advice. I think you should give up
>>complaining and getting angry about how other people live their lives.
>>It's their lives. Live your own life how you want to live it but
>>don't interfere with anyone elses.
>
>
>I have a moral obligation to help other men not make the mistake
>of settling for lesser women than they can get.
You have "a *moral* obligation", DB??
Well, Hank W had the right thing to say to sniffy
prunts like you:
"Why don't you mind your own business?
Mind your own business!
Cuz ifn you mind your own business
You won't be mindin' mine" ...
t...@delphi.com
>>I have a moral obligation to help other men not make the mistake
>>of settling for lesser women than they can get.
>>DB
>
> You have "a *moral* obligation", DB??
>
> Well, Hank W had the right thing to say to sniffy
> prunts like you:
> "Why don't you mind your own business?
> Mind your own business!
choices than leftovers and damaged goods?
I understand Dianne's reason - as a Western woman she fears the
competition.
What's your excuse?
DB
Shawn T Pickrell
:
: Why does it bother you so much that I tell other men that they have better
: choices than leftovers and damaged goods?
:
: I understand Dianne's reason - as a Western woman she fears the
: competition.
:
: What's your excuse?
P'haps he disagrees with your figures.
==========================================================================
Shawn Pickrell: Randolph-Macon '97, George Mason '03
"Go take a 15 minute break or something." - R. Martray, my current
supervisor, in response to a request for more work
==========================================================================
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> Dianne <adv...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >It wasn't an attack but advice. I think you should give up
> >complaining and getting angry about how other people live their lives.
> >It's their lives. Live your own life how you want to live it but
> >don't interfere with anyone elses.
>
>
> obviously have a vested interest in the status quo, hence your bullshit
> line about "interfering" (since when is advice interfering? When it
> disagrees with WomanSpeak dogma, that's when).
She presents it as "interfering" with the guy's life, but actually,
it's TRULY interfering with the Ameriwhore's plans.
>
>
> DB
t...@delphi.com
>> I have a moral obligation to help other men not make the mistake
>> of settling for lesser women than they can get. As such a woman you
>> obviously have a vested interest in the status quo, hence your bullshit
>> line about "interfering" (since when is advice interfering? When it
>> disagrees with WomanSpeak dogma, that's when).
>
>She presents it as "interfering" with the guy's life, but actually,
>it's TRULY interfering with the Ameriwhore's plans.
She, like most of her sisters, wants to be able to play porn star with every
ConfidentExcitingAsshole she can find, and still be able to settle down
with, as someone put it, a jackass Beta later in life. But if those men marry
better women overseas, the Americows will be SOL.
Ain't competition grand!
DB
t...@delphi.com
>: Why does it bother you so much that I tell other men that they have better
>: choices than leftovers and damaged goods?
>:
>: I understand Dianne's reason - as a Western woman she fears the
>: competition.
>:
>: What's your excuse?
>
>P'haps he disagrees with your figures.
better choices overseas.
DB