The first true heavy metal song?
Andrew Krepela
Jason Sorens <jp...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote:
>I vote for either "Mr. Crowley" by Ozzy Osbourne or "Phantom of the Opera" by Iron Maiden.
>I don't think true heavy metal, as we know it today, existed until 1980.
>
><donning flamesuit>
Well, I don't think anyone will flame you. But There are many songs Ozzy
did with Sabbath in 1969, 1970, etc that were far heavier than "Mr
Crowley" which is more like a rock song. Songs like Supernaut, Syptom Of
The Universe, and Iron Man were all Heavy metal songs. Judas priest,
starting with their 2nd album, was heavy metal.
--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ |\ zZZZ ,,,---,,_ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@ Andrew /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ www.eskimo.com/~icebrkr @@
@@ Krepela |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' Enjoy Your Shoes! @@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ /---''(_/--' `-'\_) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Morgion666
Satticon
section, "Black Sabbath" would be the first.
"N.I.B." is a close second....
Satticon
>>I vote for either "Mr. Crowley" by Ozzy Osbourne or "Phantom of the Opera"
>by Iron Maiden.
>>I don't think true heavy metal, as we know it today, existed until 1980.
>>
>><donning flamesuit>
>
> Well, I don't think anyone will flame you. But There are many songs Ozzy
>did with Sabbath in 1969, 1970, etc that were far heavier than "Mr
>Crowley" which is more like a rock song. Songs like Supernaut, Syptom Of
>The Universe, and Iron Man were all Heavy metal songs. Judas priest,
>starting with their 2nd album, was heavy metal.
>--
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ |\ zZZZ ,,,---,,_ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>@@ Andrew /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ www.eskimo.com/~icebrkr @@
>@@ Krepela |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' Enjoy Your Shoes! @@
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ /---''(_/--' `-'\_) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jason Sorens
: In article <9fth4k$q8h$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu>,
: Jason Sorens <jp...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote:
: >I vote for either "Mr. Crowley" by Ozzy Osbourne or "Phantom of the Opera" by Iron Maiden.
: >I don't think true heavy metal, as we know it today, existed until 1980.
: >
: ><donning flamesuit>
:
: Well, I don't think anyone will flame you. But There are many songs Ozzy
: did with Sabbath in 1969, 1970, etc that were far heavier than "Mr
: Crowley" which is more like a rock song. Songs like Supernaut, Syptom Of
: The Universe, and Iron Man were all Heavy metal songs. Judas priest,
: starting with their 2nd album, was heavy metal.
Black Sabbath was really loud, and yes, I guess heavy, but so were the Ramones. We
wouldn't call them metal. The lead guitar work on Ozzy's first solo album really makes
that album metal to me. Same deal with Iron Maiden's debut.
________________________________________________________________________
Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@yale.edu---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35
http://bestofmetal.net - The best moments in heavy metal history!
Benedict
>The lead guitar work on Ozzy's first solo album really makes that album metal to me.
Yes, one particularly enjoys those metal staples....
...."Goodbye To Romance" & "Fluff".
--
Benedict
Music searches: http://bsc.gemm.com/
:)))))
Nick Soapdish Jr
>From: jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens)
>Date: 6/10/2001 10:23 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9g03dm$ckk$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu>
>
>Andrew Krepela (ice...@eskimo.com) wrote:
>: In article <9fth4k$q8h$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu>,
>: Jason Sorens <jp...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote:
>: >I vote for either "Mr. Crowley" by Ozzy Osbourne or "Phantom of the Opera"
>by Iron Maiden.
>: >I don't think true heavy metal, as we know it today, existed until 1980.
>: >
>: ><donning flamesuit>
>:
>: Well, I don't think anyone will flame you. But There are many songs Ozzy
>: did with Sabbath in 1969, 1970, etc that were far heavier than "Mr
>: Crowley" which is more like a rock song. Songs like Supernaut, Syptom Of
>: The Universe, and Iron Man were all Heavy metal songs. Judas priest,
>: starting with their 2nd album, was heavy metal.
>
>Black Sabbath was really loud, and yes, I guess heavy, but so were the
>Ramones. We
>wouldn't call them metal. The lead guitar work on Ozzy's first solo album
>really makes
>that album metal to me. Same deal with Iron Maiden's debut.
>
A critical distinction exists between the Ramones and Black Sabbath: the song
structures themselves. Black Sabbath used flatted 5ths, minor keys, and
melodic guitar leads. I don't think the Ramones did much of that. Fact: Black
Sabbath WAS HEAVY METAL. Riff-based music which had definite, distant roots in
blues, but incorporated a more baroque or classical sensibility, used
distortion and muting, and was played with some competency. To say that a band
like Rhapsody could lay more of a claim to the genre of Heavy Metal than
Sabbath, simply because of their virtuousic nature, would be just plain silly.
I think most people would agree.
Jim Gordon
"I've got a fever...and the only prescription...is more cowbell!"
-Christopher Walken
"If passion denies you, don't die on your knees...."
-Virgin Steele
Jason Sorens
: >Black Sabbath was really loud, and yes, I guess heavy, but so were the
: >Ramones. We
: >wouldn't call them metal. The lead guitar work on Ozzy's first solo album
: >really makes
: >that album metal to me. Same deal with Iron Maiden's debut.
: >
: A critical distinction exists between the Ramones and Black Sabbath: the song
: structures themselves. Black Sabbath used flatted 5ths, minor keys, and
: melodic guitar leads. I don't think the Ramones did much of that. Fact: Black
: Sabbath WAS HEAVY METAL. Riff-based music which had definite, distant roots in
: blues, but incorporated a more baroque or classical sensibility, used
: distortion and muting, and was played with some competency. To say that a band
: like Rhapsody could lay more of a claim to the genre of Heavy Metal than
: Sabbath, simply because of their virtuousic nature, would be just plain silly.
: I think most people would agree.
Sabbath had a baroque or classical sensibility?? Melodic leads?? OK, yes,
the solo in "Warpigs" is pretty awesome, but all in all Sabbath was about
deep, rumbling bass and floundering-wino vocals. Hm, kinda like grunge, come
to think of it.
Nick Soapdish Jr
>Message-id: <9g3kph$au4$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu>
>
>Nick Soapdish Jr (jgord...@aol.com1234) wrote:
>
>: >Black Sabbath was really loud, and yes, I guess heavy, but so were the
>: >Ramones. We
>: >wouldn't call them metal. The lead guitar work on Ozzy's first solo album
>: >really makes
>: >that album metal to me. Same deal with Iron Maiden's debut.
>: >
>
>: A critical distinction exists between the Ramones and Black Sabbath: the
>song
>: structures themselves. Black Sabbath used flatted 5ths, minor keys, and
>: melodic guitar leads. I don't think the Ramones did much of that. Fact:
>Black
>: Sabbath WAS HEAVY METAL. Riff-based music which had definite, distant
>roots in
>: blues, but incorporated a more baroque or classical sensibility, used
>: distortion and muting, and was played with some competency. To say that a
>band
>: like Rhapsody could lay more of a claim to the genre of Heavy Metal than
>: Sabbath, simply because of their virtuousic nature, would be just plain
>silly.
>: I think most people would agree.
>
>Sabbath had a baroque or classical sensibility?? Melodic leads?? OK, yes,
>the solo in "Warpigs" is pretty awesome, but all in all Sabbath was about
>deep, rumbling bass and floundering-wino vocals. Hm, kinda like grunge, come
>
>to think of it.
Ever listen to Laguna Sunrise? Embryo? The dramatic leads in NIB? How about
Spiral Architect? Supertzar? I'm wondering if you've heard any Sabbath aside
from the 3 or so songs heard on the radio......
As for the "deep rumbling bass", remember the term "heavy metal" uses the
word "HEAVY". I think the members of Iron Maiden would seriously disagree with
you about Sabbath not being metal......
As for grunge, some of it WAS more or less heavy metal. Dramatic, shifting
away from the I-iv-v pattern of blues. Also, not all metal is necessarily
classica in soundl; I'm talking more in terms of composition.
Russ Perry Jr
> jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens) wrote:
> >Andrew Krepela (ice...@eskimo.com) wrote:
> >: Jason Sorens <jp...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote:
> >: >I don't think true heavy metal, as we know it today, existed until
> >: >1980.
> >: Songs like Supernaut, Syptom Of The Universe, and Iron Man were all
> >: Heavy metal songs. Judas priest, starting with their 2nd album, was
> >: heavy metal.
> >Black Sabbath was really loud, and yes, I guess heavy, but so were the
> >Ramones. We wouldn't call them metal.
> A critical distinction exists between the Ramones and Black Sabbath: the
> song structures themselves. Black Sabbath used flatted 5ths, minor keys,
> and melodic guitar leads. I don't think the Ramones did much of that.
> Fact: Black Sabbath WAS HEAVY METAL.
This whole discussion feels a bit odd to me... Black Sabbath certainly
IS heavy metal, at least they have been all along. Suddenly, YEARS
later, we want to say they aren't?
Nuts to that; pick a new term for new bands. You want to call it
"true metal" instead, great. But Black Sabbath was metal all along.
> Riff-based music which had definite, distant roots in blues, but
> incorporated a more baroque or classical sensibility,
In some ways I think the emphasis of blues influence over classical
usually means "hard rock", and classical over blues means "heavy metal".
> used distortion and muting, and was played with some competency.
Sounds like a pretty good off the cuff definition of metal: distortion
& palm muting...
> To say that a band like Rhapsody could lay more of a claim to the genre
> of Heavy Metal than Sabbath, simply because of their virtuousic nature,
> would be just plain silly.
Perhaps it's time to roll out the old comic book labelling system:
Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden: golden age metal
80s metal: silver age metal
--
//*================================================================++
|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 ||
|| 847-952-9729 slap...@enteract.com VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! ||
++================================================================*//
Jason Sorens
: Ever listen to Laguna Sunrise? Embryo? The dramatic leads in NIB? How about
: Spiral Architect? Supertzar? I'm wondering if you've heard any Sabbath aside
: from the 3 or so songs heard on the radio......
I've heard all those except Spiral Architect. I don't know how you can describe the leads
in NIB as "dramatic"; it sounds like proto-Skynyrd honky-tonk to me. In addition, I used
to own "We Sold Our Souls for Rock'n'Roll," which sucked, and I do own "Heaven and Hell,"
which is pretty good but definitely not heavy metal.
: As for the "deep rumbling bass", remember the term "heavy metal" uses the
: word "HEAVY". I think the members of Iron Maiden would seriously disagree with
: you about Sabbath not being metal......
Probably, but Iron Maiden still seems to be stuck in 1983. Maybe BS was metal by the
definition of the term in 1983, but they bear little relation to bands like Dissection,
Nevermore, & Helloween, to take some random examples.
: As for grunge, some of it WAS more or less heavy metal. Dramatic, shifting
: away from the I-iv-v pattern of blues.
Grunge was derivative of punk; I wouldn't describe any of it as heavy metal, unless you
consider punk & hardcore to be types of heavy metal.
: Also, not all metal is necessarily
: classica in soundl; I'm talking more in terms of composition.
Of course! The vast majority of metal is not classical in *sound*.
blackd...@mindspring.com
friend of mine and I had this discussion awhile back, after seeing
VH1's The List (? i think that's te name) and them having bands that
were so totally NOT heavy metal, incl. Led Zep, IMO, that it wasn't
funny. But then again, there was Stephen Pearcy totally denying any
hint of metal in Ratt, too, so...? Anyway, tho I thought (think)
Black Sabbath are more a "proto-metal," a sort of forefathers of the
genre, I think they do indeed qualify as "heavy metal." But shit that
we called metal back in '88, people don't call metal anymore, so what
do I know? :)
Shaye
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"We are our own wicked gods, with little g's and big dicks,
Sadisitic, constantly inflicting a slow demise..."
-- "My Monkey," Marilyn Manson
Satticon
Eleven days 'til Slayer. This is gonna be so cool. Do you like Slayer, Shaye? I
noticed you mentioned an Overkill tattoo, I recently got into them thanks to
Slayer.
Satticon
Nick Soapdish Jr
>Message-id: <9g5bls$m4t$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu>
>
>Nick Soapdish Jr (jgord...@aol.com1234) wrote:
>
>: Ever listen to Laguna Sunrise? Embryo? The dramatic leads in NIB? How
>about
>: Spiral Architect? Supertzar? I'm wondering if you've heard any Sabbath
>aside
>: from the 3 or so songs heard on the radio......
>
>I've heard all those except Spiral Architect. I don't know how you can
>describe the leads
>in NIB as "dramatic"; it sounds like proto-Skynyrd honky-tonk to me. In
>addition, I used
>to own "We Sold Our Souls for Rock'n'Roll," which sucked, and I do own
>"Heaven and Hell,"
>which is pretty good but definitely not heavy metal.
>
"proto-Skynyrd Honky-Tonk"????? Of course, IIRC, you also claimed Slayer is
"hard rock", which is one of the most nonsensical statements ever. It sounds
to me like you are confusing power metal/symphonic metal/etc. with the larger
definition of heavy metal.
>: As for the "deep rumbling bass", remember the term "heavy metal" uses
>the
>: word "HEAVY". I think the members of Iron Maiden would seriously disagree
>with
>: you about Sabbath not being metal......
>
>Probably, but Iron Maiden still seems to be stuck in 1983. Maybe BS was
>metal by the
>definition of the term in 1983, but they bear little relation to bands like
>Dissection,
>Nevermore, & Helloween, to take some random examples.
Again, ALL HEAVY METAL DOES NOT EQUAL POWER OR EXTREME METAL. If you're going
to use shifting definitions based on the time of use, you might as well say
Static X is heavy metal, as that's what a lot of people nowadays think.
>
>: As for grunge, some of it WAS more or less heavy metal. Dramatic,
>shifting
>: away from the I-iv-v pattern of blues.
>
>Grunge was derivative of punk; I wouldn't describe any of it as heavy metal,
>unless you
>consider punk & hardcore to be types of heavy metal.
>
A lot of people consider grunge to be a mix between punk and metal. Iron
Maiden was considered to be such a mixture as well! Soundgarden and Alice in
Chains were very riff heavy, and more or less heavy metal at at least one point
in their careers.
Rob Halford said that he saw very little difference between the Ramones and
heavy metal. Gamma Ray, if you remove the guitar solos, often approaches a
punk sound.
In short, the concept of "metal purity" is complete BS. It's an attempt to put
constraining rules on a genre that touches on enough other genres to render
such rules contradictory. I'm not saying to do away with general labels;
however, when the labels are vague enough, and heavy metal is a somewhat vague
label, applying too specific a criteria is counterproductive.
blackd...@mindspring.com
>No, they call it 'thrash' and 'speed' and 'death' metal now....
>
>Eleven days 'til Slayer. This is gonna be so cool. Do you like Slayer, Shaye? I
>noticed you mentioned an Overkill tattoo, I recently got into them thanks to
>Slayer.
Haven't heard anything since Divine Intervention, which I thought was
okay, but i do dearly love their older stuff, like Reign in Blood,
South of Heaven, and Seasons. I've only seen them twice, tho. Who
are they touring with? (like they'll even come close to Atlanta...)
Satticon
>>Eleven days 'til Slayer. This is gonna be so cool. Do you like Slayer,
>Shaye? I
>>noticed you mentioned an Overkill tattoo, I recently got into them thanks to
>>Slayer.
>
>Haven't heard anything since Divine Intervention, which I thought was
>okay,
Ahhhh..... "Divine".... a Masterpiece! And yeah, it's okay, too!
but i do dearly love their older stuff, like Reign in Blood,
>South of Heaven, and Seasons.
Really! You really like that stuff, or are you just humoring me? Hmmm.... (eyes
narrow, paranoia kicks in...) Sorry, it's just that... noone ever agrees with
me about Slayer, except Demented, when he's drunk, and Gary, when he's high on
crank. Oh, and Crawdad, when he's setting me up for something.
....I just checked, the tour isn't going to Atlanta... but there are a couple
of warmup dates in clubs (cool!!!) in North and South Carolina (not a geography
expert but I think those places may be a long car ride for you?)...
I've only seen them twice, tho. Who
>are they touring with? (like they'll even come close to Atlanta...)
>
>
>Shaye
>
They are touring with Panterrible, Static X (whoever THAT is)... and someone
called "Skrape", and Morbid Angel. But I am only planning to catch some of MA,
rock to Slayer and LAUGH at Panterrible. I have a feeling it's going to be a
special night.
Of course, I will try to remember it all and post it here in ARRMO!!!!
Satticon
"I have been a practicing clown dom for over two years and am respectful of all
limits. Trust me, I'm a clown."
C_L_S
"Satticon" <satt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010612184530...@ng-xb1.aol.com...
> No, they call it 'thrash' and 'speed' and 'death' metal now....
......or just "buttmetal" for short :)
Crawdad
Satticon
King Diamond, certainly. But not Slayer.
Not that you were singling them out, I just wanted to clearly define my
position before you did.
Satticon
CLS wrote:
>> No, they call it 'thrash' and 'speed' and 'death' metal now....
>
>......or just "buttmetal" for short :)
>
>Crawdad
>
blackd...@mindspring.com
>Shaye wrote:
>but i do dearly love their older stuff, like Reign in Blood,
>>South of Heaven, and Seasons.
>
>Really! You really like that stuff, or are you just humoring me? Hmmm.... (eyes
>narrow, paranoia kicks in...) Sorry, it's just that... noone ever agrees with
>me about Slayer, except Demented, when he's drunk, and Gary, when he's high on
>crank. Oh, and Crawdad, when he's setting me up for something.
Um... yep. I used to love to listen to Reign in Blood in the car,
especially. I haven;t listened to much of it in quite a while, but,
go ahead, ask me a question. ;) Tom Araya was a respiratory therapist
in... was it Argentina? Is that convincing enough? ;)
>....I just checked, the tour isn't going to Atlanta... but there are a couple
>of warmup dates in clubs (cool!!!) in North and South Carolina (not a geography
>expert but I think those places may be a long car ride for you?)...
yep, looong ride. And I have weekends pretty much booked through at
least the end of July with archery, so... :(
>They are touring with Panterrible, Static X (whoever THAT is)... and someone
>called "Skrape", and Morbid Angel. But I am only planning to catch some of MA,
>rock to Slayer and LAUGH at Panterrible. I have a feeling it's going to be a
>special night.
lol, you laugh at Pantera (whom I also used to really like, and have
actually seen prolly more than any other band... Bryant was at my 1st
Pantera show with me, as a matter of fact!)... and _not_ laugh at
morbid Angel? That's a good one. ;) Serioualy, tho, never been big
into MA, but I did see them once. They're okay. :)
>Of course, I will try to remember it all and post it here in ARRMO!!!!
As, of course, you must. Good boy.
Homer Simpson
> Shaye wrote:
>
> >>Eleven days 'til Slayer. This is gonna be so cool. Do you like Slayer,
> >Shaye? I
> >>noticed you mentioned an Overkill tattoo, I recently got into them
thanks to
> >>Slayer.
> >
> >Haven't heard anything since Divine Intervention, which I thought was
> >okay,
>
> Ahhhh..... "Divine".... a Masterpiece! And yeah, it's okay, too!
>
> but i do dearly love their older stuff, like Reign in Blood,
> >South of Heaven, and Seasons.
>
> Really! You really like that stuff, or are you just humoring me? Hmmm....
(eyes
> narrow, paranoia kicks in...) Sorry, it's just that... noone ever agrees
with
> me about Slayer, except Demented, when he's drunk, and Gary, when he's
high on
> crank. Oh, and Crawdad, when he's setting me up for something.
Oh is that so ? If I rememnber correctly, I suggested you download some
songs from "Seasons in the Abyss." I was listening to Slayer well before you
had your 6 CD collection. >: Bad Satticon. THe Force is not with you my
son.
Bryant
Satticon
Bryant is correct, he did steer me towards the light early on in my Slayer
epiphany. Forgive me Bryant... it's this damn volatile memory of mine. In fact,
I believe you also told me to get Angel Of Death, but I'm not sure? Hey, I
know! Let's declare this "Slayer Month", and talk about nothing else!!!!
Satticon
>Oh is that so ? If I rememnber correctly, I suggested you download some
>songs from "Seasons in the Abyss." I was listening to Slayer well before you
>had your 6 CD collection. >: Bad Satticon. THe Force is not with you my
>son.
>
> Bryant
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jason Sorens
: "proto-Skynyrd Honky-Tonk"????? Of course, IIRC, you also claimed Slayer is
: "hard rock", which is one of the most nonsensical statements ever.
Ah no, I did not. Someone I was debating tried to twist my statement into that absurd
claim.
: It sounds
: to me like you are confusing power metal/symphonic metal/etc. with the larger
: definition of heavy metal.
That would be odd, as I listen to all kinds of metal and some non-metal.
: >Probably, but Iron Maiden still seems to be stuck in 1983. Maybe BS was
: >metal by the
: >definition of the term in 1983, but they bear little relation to bands like
: >Dissection,
: >Nevermore, & Helloween, to take some random examples.
: Again, ALL HEAVY METAL DOES NOT EQUAL POWER OR EXTREME METAL.
Mm-hm. Well, Black Sabbath's music also has little relation to the following bands:
Accept, After Forever, Amorphis, Anathema, Anacrusis, Angel Dust, Angra, Arch Enemy,
Armageddon, At the Gates, Believer, Blind Guardian, Borknagar, Carcass, Dream
Theater,...need I go on? So I guess you would say "all heavy metal does not equal power,
doom, progressive, death, black, or thrash metal"? Then I would simply have to disagree.
: If you're going
: to use shifting definitions based on the time of use, you might as well say
: Static X is heavy metal, as that's what a lot of people nowadays think.
Static X isn't trying to do the same thing as the bands I mentioned. We define &
categorize art on the basis of what it attempts to do. I define metal as melodic,
complex, atmospheric, and virtuosic, while also acerbic & dialectical, which distinguishes
it from classical music & progressive rock. My interlocutor gave a definition of metal
based on technique: distortion with palm muting. Proper art categorizations are not based
on technique alone but on what that technique is intended to accomplish. We might as well
say that anyone who paints using dots of oil on a canvas is an Impressionist, since that
was the technique associated with Impressionism. You can accomplish many different things
with the same technique. Static-X and Black Sabbath are aiming philosophically at
something different from what the bands I mentioned are aiming at. They are not trying to
build a bigger, better, more grandiose, and more awe-inspiring metal castle in the air.
: A lot of people consider grunge to be a mix between punk and metal.
It's definitely more of the former than the latter.
: Iron
: Maiden was considered to be such a mixture as well!
Some people are nitwits; they thought Iron Maiden was "punk-metal" because Paul Di'Anno
had short hair (!).
: Soundgarden and Alice in
: Chains were very riff heavy, and more or less heavy metal at at least one point
: in their careers.
Again, I wouldn't say that every riff-heavy band is heavy metal. Hatebreed is riff-heavy,
but they're clearly hardcore.
: Rob Halford said that he saw very little difference between the Ramones and
: heavy metal.
Well, Judas Priest wasn't metal for most of its career. >)
: Gamma Ray, if you remove the guitar solos, often approaches a
: punk sound.
That's a big if, and even so: no.
: In short, the concept of "metal purity" is complete BS. It's an attempt to put
: constraining rules on a genre that touches on enough other genres to render
: such rules contradictory. I'm not saying to do away with general labels;
: however, when the labels are vague enough, and heavy metal is a somewhat vague
: label, applying too specific a criteria is counterproductive.
I'm not trying to constrain anything; I'm trying to categorize simply for the purposes of
clarity. I'm not saying bands shouldn't mix metal with anything else. I'm not a metal
segregationist.
Homer Simpson
> Ewww.....
> Bryant is correct, he did steer me towards the light early on in my Slayer
> epiphany. Forgive me Bryant... it's this damn volatile memory of mine. In
fact,
> I believe you also told me to get Angel Of Death, but I'm not sure? Hey, I
> know! Let's declare this "Slayer Month", and talk about nothing else!!!!
>
> Satticon
Kerry King is a member of the 700 Club.
Bryant
blackd...@mindspring.com
>Mm-hm. Well, Black Sabbath's music also has little relation to the following bands:
>Accept, After Forever, Amorphis, Anathema, Anacrusis, Angel Dust, Angra, Arch Enemy,
>Armageddon, At the Gates, Believer, Blind Guardian, Borknagar, Carcass, Dream
>Theater,...need I go on? So I guess you would say "all heavy metal does not equal power,
>doom, progressive, death, black, or thrash metal"? Then I would simply have to disagree.
So if a band does not fit into one of those (very limiting, IMO)
categories, they're not "metal"? What would you label Iron Maiden,
then? Or Anthrax? How about Skid Row? Priest? Warlock? Suicidal?
prong? What about "glam metal"? Does it not count?
Shaye
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" There are no answers only bitter lies
The only voice I'm believing is the beckoning blade
Who can tell the torture of the soul?
Is it wrong- you tell me is it wrong...
To close your eyes... to sleep forever?"
--"All That Remains," Fear of God
blackd...@mindspring.com
Is Paul Bostaph still their drummer? i remember when he was with
Forbidden.
Satticon
>Is Paul Bostaph still their drummer? i remember when he was with
>Forbidden.
>
>
>Shaye
Yes, Paul is still with them and is an EXCELLENT drummer!
Satticon
Satticon
>Um... yep. I used to love to listen to Reign in Blood in the car,
>especially. I haven;t listened to much of it in quite a while, but,
>go ahead, ask me a question. ;)
Ok...
Which song is better for exceeding the speed limit late at night while blitzed
on Budweiser, "Raining Blood" or "Epidemic"?
>Tom Araya was a respiratory therapist
>in... was it Argentina? Is that convincing enough? ;)
You know your Slayer!
>(not a geography
>>expert but I think those places may be a long car ride for you?)...
>
>yep, looong ride. And I have weekends pretty much booked through at
>least the end of July with archery, so... :(
>
Is he your boyfriend?
>lol, you laugh at Pantera (whom I also used to really like, and have
>actually seen prolly more than any other band...
Well, as a Slayer fan, I'm supposed to! (pssst.... if Pantera plays "Yesterday
Don't Mean Shit", I might duck behind a fat guy and ROCK!!!)
Nick Soapdish Jr
>Message-id: <9g7sps$nd9$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu>
>
>Nick Soapdish Jr (jgord...@aol.com1234) wrote:
>
>: "proto-Skynyrd Honky-Tonk"????? Of course, IIRC, you also claimed Slayer
>is
>: "hard rock", which is one of the most nonsensical statements ever.
>
>Ah no, I did not. Someone I was debating tried to twist my statement into
>that absurd
>claim.
>
OK, I'll take your word on that. I do remember differently, but it was awhile
ago, so my memory probably fails me here.
>: It sounds
>: to me like you are confusing power metal/symphonic metal/etc. with the
>larger
>: definition of heavy metal.
>
>That would be odd, as I listen to all kinds of metal and some non-metal.
>
I'm not saying you refuse to listen to non-metal. I'm saying that your
restricted definition of metal is simply not held by most people, including
most people into metal. True, a lot of people (non-metal fans) classify Led
Zeppelin as a metal band. Most metalheads would say uh-uh. Zeppelin was a hard
rock band that occasionally played metal. Very occasionally. One or two songs,
perhaps.
>: >Probably, but Iron Maiden still seems to be stuck in 1983. Maybe BS was
>: >metal by the
>: >definition of the term in 1983, but they bear little relation to bands
>like
>: >Dissection,
>: >Nevermore, & Helloween, to take some random examples.
>
>: Again, ALL HEAVY METAL DOES NOT EQUAL POWER OR EXTREME METAL.
>
>Mm-hm. Well, Black Sabbath's music also has little relation to the following
>bands:
>Accept, After Forever, Amorphis, Anathema, Anacrusis, Angel Dust, Angra, Arch
>Enemy,
>Armageddon, At the Gates, Believer, Blind Guardian, Borknagar, Carcass, Dream
>
>Theater,...need I go on? So I guess you would say "all heavy metal does not
>equal power,
>doom, progressive, death, black, or thrash metal"? Then I would simply have
>to disagree.
Sabbath has nothing to do with doom metal????? Now _that_ is dead wrong! If I
recall, there was a tribute to Black Sabbath with plenty of doom metal bands on
it. Black Sabbath WAS doom metal. As for another of your examples, I listen
to Blind Guardian religiously.....Sabbath has plenty to do with their music.
Even if the harmonies are stripped away from BG, the riff structures, the
chromatic scales, general rhythm guitar feel and sound, etc. in a song like
"And The Story Ends" point back to Black Sabbath.
>
>: If you're going
>: to use shifting definitions based on the time of use, you might as well say
>: Static X is heavy metal, as that's what a lot of people nowadays think.
>
>Static X isn't trying to do the same thing >as the bands I mentioned. We
>define &
>categorize art on the basis of what it attempts to do. I define metal as
>melodic,
>complex, atmospheric, and virtuosic, while also acerbic & dialectical, which
>distinguishes
>it from classical music & progressive rock. My interlocutor gave a
>definition of metal
>based on technique: distortion with palm muting. Proper art categorizations
>are not based
>on technique alone but on what that technique is intended to accomplish.
So now you can read the minds of the artists, and want to project intent?
Again, your definition is the minority one for heavy metal. I play music
myself, and when I write a metal song, I don't have these grandiose objectives.
I want to write music that's good and heavy in some way, and if it happens to
be complex, it's because I feel like writing a complex song, not because it's a
metal song.
> We
>might as well
>say that anyone who paints using dots of oil on a canvas is an Impressionist,
>since that
>was the technique associated with >Impressionism.
I think most people would call the painting "Impressionist". It's a style and
that painter is using that style.
>You can accomplish many
>different things
>with the same technique. Static-X and Black Sabbath are aiming
>philosophically at
>something different from what the bands I mentioned are aiming at. They are
>not trying to
>build a bigger, better, more grandiose, and more awe-inspiring metal castle
>in the air.
Static X is trying to sell records with postured rebellion. But Sabbath, and
most bands worth a damn, don't aim for "being the most metal". They want to
write good music within the general confines of the genre. I have a Nocturnal
Rites album; they're trying to be "what a power metal band is supposed to be".
It sucks, pure and simple. I'm supposed to think Nocturnal Rites is more
"metal" than Black Sabbath? No way......
>
>: A lot of people consider grunge to be a mix between punk and metal.
>
>It's definitely more of the former than the latter.
>
>: Iron
>: Maiden was considered to be such a mixture as well!
>
>Some people are nitwits; they thought Iron Maiden was "punk-metal" because
>Paul Di'Anno
>had short hair (!).
The early material has a lot of the punk feel as well, but with more
complexity. Their music said "damn technique if it gets in the way! Let's
rock!", while at least trying to achieve some degree of listenability.
>
>: Soundgarden and Alice in
>: Chains were very riff heavy, and more or less heavy metal at at least one
>point
>: in their careers.
>
>Again, I wouldn't say that every riff-heavy band is heavy metal. Hatebreed
>is riff-heavy,
>but they're clearly hardcore.
>
Riff-heavy is only one component of heavy metal. Hard rock is riff heavy as
well. I was talking about the overall package as well.
>: Rob Halford said that he saw very little difference between the Ramones and
>: heavy metal.
>
>Well, Judas Priest wasn't metal for most of its career. >)
>
I remember hearing one person who also didn't think Sabbath was metal citing
Judas Priest as the first metal band. I'd say Priest was metal for most of its
career. They may have played some funkier or lighter material here and there,
but overall......
>: Gamma Ray, if you remove the guitar solos, often approaches a
>: punk sound.
>
>That's a big if, and even so: no.
>
Punk is often described as fast and hard, with an emphasis on melody. Sounds
like the album "Powerplant" to me. See also the German band Rage.......
>: In short, the concept of "metal purity" is complete BS. It's an attempt to
>put
>: constraining rules on a genre that touches on enough other genres to render
>: such rules contradictory. I'm not saying to do away with general labels;
>: however, when the labels are vague enough, and heavy metal is a somewhat
>vague
>: label, applying too specific a criteria is counterproductive.
>
>I'm not trying to constrain anything; I'm trying to categorize simply for the
>purposes of
>clarity. I'm not saying bands shouldn't mix metal with anything else. I'm
>not a metal
>segregationist.
>
Okeydoke.
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@yale.edu---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35
>
>http://bestofmetal.net - The best moments in heavy metal history!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Russ Perry Jr
> >: A lot of people consider grunge to be a mix between punk and metal.
> >It's definitely more of the former than the latter.
> >: Iron
> >: Maiden was considered to be such a mixture as well!
> >Some people are nitwits; they thought Iron Maiden was "punk-metal"
> >because Paul Di'Anno had short hair (!).
In case Iron Maiden isn't a good enough example of genre benders,
what about Motorhead? They had decent-sized followings in both the
punk AND metal communities, but is the band only hard rock? Looking
back maybe, but then, they were metal, or maybe punk metal.
> Punk is often described as fast and hard, with an emphasis on melody.
Emphasis on melody?? Isn't punk more about defying ordinary musical
conventions, and isn't melody one of said conventions? I'm not saying
there wasn't some melodic punk, but I don't think that was necessarily
the emphasis...
Jim Antares
Pat Robertson would just die for the opportunity to be on the same stage as
K.K., just needs to down some Jager first to work up some nerve.
-Jim M.
'Tis better to have a Hemi under the hood than to have one on the ass.
Jason Sorens
: jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens) wrote:
: >Mm-hm. Well, Black Sabbath's music also has little relation to the following bands:
: >Accept, After Forever, Amorphis, Anathema, Anacrusis, Angel Dust, Angra, Arch Enemy,
: >Armageddon, At the Gates, Believer, Blind Guardian, Borknagar, Carcass, Dream
: >Theater,...need I go on? So I guess you would say "all heavy metal does not equal power,
: >doom, progressive, death, black, or thrash metal"? Then I would simply have to disagree.
: So if a band does not fit into one of those (very limiting, IMO)
: categories, they're not "metal"? What would you label Iron Maiden,
: then? Or Anthrax? How about Skid Row? Priest? Warlock? Suicidal?
: prong? What about "glam metal"? Does it not count?
A lot of that doesn't count. I'm willing to let Iron Maiden, 80s Anthrax, and some Priest
slip into the fold, but the others are out.
Jason Sorens
: So now you can read the minds of the artists, and want to project intent?
: Again, your definition is the minority one for heavy metal. I play music
: myself, and when I write a metal song, I don't have these grandiose objectives.
: I want to write music that's good and heavy in some way, and if it happens to
: be complex, it's because I feel like writing a complex song, not because it's a
: metal song.
Artists typically don't really know the philosophical implications of what they're doing,
but I think many listeners do, somewhere in the back of their minds, even if they can't
express it correctly.
: > We
: >might as well
: >say that anyone who paints using dots of oil on a canvas is an Impressionist,
: >since that
: >was the technique associated with >Impressionism.
: I think most people would call the painting "Impressionist". It's a style and
: that painter is using that style.
Even if the dots are sprayed randomly on a canvas? That would be a modernist
deconstruction of Impressionism. Same thing with music: if "Amazing Grace" is played at
loud volume on an electric guitar, does that mean it's metal? Or "Johnny B. Goode"?
: Static X is trying to sell records with postured rebellion. But Sabbath, and
: most bands worth a damn, don't aim for "being the most metal". They want to
: write good music within the general confines of the genre. I have a Nocturnal
: Rites album; they're trying to be "what a power metal band is supposed to be".
: It sucks, pure and simple. I'm supposed to think Nocturnal Rites is more
: "metal" than Black Sabbath? No way......
I never said that artists should aim at "being metal." I agree; the best music is not
designed for any genre label or fan base. Within Temptation's "Mother Earth" album to me
is an excellent example of music for music's sake. (BTW, I think Nocturnal Rites' first 2
albums are actually pretty good, but their last one really sucks.)
: The early material has a lot of the punk feel as well, but with more
: complexity. Their music said "damn technique if it gets in the way! Let's
: rock!", while at least trying to achieve some degree of listenability.
Yes, the early material isn't 100% metal. "Drifter," for example, sounds almost like a
neo-swing song!
: I remember hearing one person who also didn't think Sabbath was metal citing
: Judas Priest as the first metal band. I'd say Priest was metal for most of its
: career. They may have played some funkier or lighter material here and there,
: but overall......
I think they came a little closer than Sabbath, because of the semi-virtuosic vocals. But
"Screaming for Vengeance" was probably their first majority-metal album, then they
gradually slipped into hard rock again, then "Painkiller" was without doubt a pure-burning
metal album.
: Punk is often described as fast and hard, with an emphasis on melody. Sounds
: like the album "Powerplant" to me. See also the German band Rage.......
Melody is not usually associated with punk. There can be a little melody in the vocals,
and some of the chord progressions can be "catchy," but any melody that exists is quite
simple. Usually punk relies on key changes more than actual melody lines. Also, bass is
virtually nonexistent, which definitely separates punk from power metal acts like Gamma
Ray and Rage. I won't deny that there are some similarities (everything in the universe
is related somehow after all), but I don't think they're fundamental.
Jason Sorens
: jgord...@aol.com1234 (Nick Soapdish Jr) wrote:
: > >Nick Soapdish Jr (jgord...@aol.com1234) wrote:
: > >: A lot of people consider grunge to be a mix between punk and metal.
: > >It's definitely more of the former than the latter.
: > >: Iron
: > >: Maiden was considered to be such a mixture as well!
: > >Some people are nitwits; they thought Iron Maiden was "punk-metal"
: > >because Paul Di'Anno had short hair (!).
: In case Iron Maiden isn't a good enough example of genre benders,
: what about Motorhead? They had decent-sized followings in both the
: punk AND metal communities, but is the band only hard rock? Looking
: back maybe, but then, they were metal, or maybe punk metal.
I really don't think Motorhead is metal at all, but I guess in the early 80s they were,
because 'metal' then referred to everything loud & heavy, because that was a relatively
new style. The various, differing directions that that sound could take weren't yet clear
then.
: > Punk is often described as fast and hard, with an emphasis on melody.
: Emphasis on melody?? Isn't punk more about defying ordinary musical
: conventions, and isn't melody one of said conventions? I'm not saying
: there wasn't some melodic punk, but I don't think that was necessarily
: the emphasis...
I think you're right. Bands like Green Day have some melody, but the original punk rock
bands were musical nihilists.
Metlhd3138
>original punk rock
>bands were musical nihilists.
The Ramones were EXTREMELY melodic,,as was Elvis Costello (he WAS considered
punk back in the 70s)
DEMENTED
Jason Sorens <jp...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote in message
news:9gabsh$cq8$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu...
> blackd...@mindspring.com wrote:
> : jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens) wrote:
>
>
> : >Mm-hm. Well, Black Sabbath's music also has little relation to the
following bands:
> : >Accept, After Forever, Amorphis, Anathema, Anacrusis, Angel Dust,
Angra, Arch Enemy,
> : >Armageddon, At the Gates, Believer, Blind Guardian, Borknagar, Carcass,
Dream
> : >Theater,...need I go on? So I guess you would say "all heavy metal
does not equal power,
> : >doom, progressive, death, black, or thrash metal"? Then I would simply
have to disagree.
>
> : So if a band does not fit into one of those (very limiting, IMO)
> : categories, they're not "metal"? What would you label Iron Maiden,
> : then? Or Anthrax? How about Skid Row? Priest? Warlock? Suicidal?
> : prong? What about "glam metal"? Does it not count?
>
> A lot of that doesn't count. I'm willing to let Iron Maiden, 80s Anthrax,
and some Priest
> slip into the fold, but the others are out.
DEMENTED
Nick Soapdish Jr
>Message-id: <9gacld$cq8$2...@news.ycc.yale.edu>
>
>Nick Soapdish Jr (jgord...@aol.com1234) wrote:
>
>: So now you can read the minds of the artists, and want to project intent?
>: Again, your definition is the minority one for heavy metal. I play music
>: myself, and when I write a metal song, I don't have these grandiose
>objectives.
>: I want to write music that's good and heavy in some way, and if it happens
>to
>: be complex, it's because I feel like writing a complex song, not because
>it's a
>: metal song.
>
>Artists typically don't really know the philosophical implications of what
>they're doing,
>but I think many listeners do, somewhere in the back of their minds, even if
>they can't
>express it correctly.
>
I really think the only "relevant" philosophy in metal, and music in general,
is to put forth the best effort you can. For a non-metal comparison, try
Radiohead vs. Coldplay. Coldplay is trying to be Radiohead.....but they suck,
because they're just going through the motions, and it shows in the music.
Shallow "alt-rock", which obviously was written without trying their best.
Just plain awful, with the "lead" distorted guitar played out of tune for no
reason at all, and only in straight quarter notes. Radiohead might not be
virtuosic, but you can tell that they put effort into their songs and playing.
>: > We
>: >might as well
>: >say that anyone who paints using dots of oil on a canvas is an
>Impressionist,
>: >since that
>: >was the technique associated with >Impressionism.
>
>: I think most people would call the painting "Impressionist". It's a style
>and
>: that painter is using that style.
>
>Even if the dots are sprayed randomly on a canvas? That would be a modernist
>
>deconstruction of Impressionism.
Depends on how you define impressionist technique. Perhaps I was too loose
there with my definition, but if it uses dots of paint that in whole sum up
some form of a scene......
Wrong. Competency is not a prerequisite (and in the case of the Sex Pistols
was nonexistent), but often punk was supposed to be melodic, in that the
emphasis was on a specific melody (often vocal), rather than riffs. Then
again, my definition might be considered too specific for punk, as that term
opened up in meaning in the early '80s to possibly include hardcore.
>There can be a little melody in
>the vocals,
>and some of the chord progressions can be "catchy," but any melody that
>exists is quite
>simple.
Again, melodic doesn't equal complex. I'd say after a point, music can get too
complex to be melodic. Much Arch-era Fates Warning falls in that category.
>Usually punk relies on key changes more than actual melody lines.
>Also, bass is
>virtually nonexistent, which definitely separates punk from power metal acts
>like Gamma
>Ray and Rage.
Actually the bass is often quite existent, from my limited knowledge. It just
supports the melody.....which is what Peavey's basslines usually do in Rage!
> I won't deny that there are some similarities (everything in
>the universe
>is related somehow after all), but I don't think they're fundamental.
Gay Christ Records
Dude Lemmy says Motorhead is a blues band
I dunno
> I really don't think Motorhead is metal at all, but I guess in the early 80s they were,
> because 'metal' then referred to everything loud & heavy, because that was a relatively
> new style. The various, differing directions that that sound could take weren't yet clear
> then.
>
> : > Punk is often described as fast and hard, with an emphasis on melody.
>
> : Emphasis on melody?? Isn't punk more about defying ordinary musical
> : conventions, and isn't melody one of said conventions? I'm not saying
> : there wasn't some melodic punk, but I don't think that was necessarily
> : the emphasis...
>
> I think you're right. Bands like Green Day have some melody, but the original punk rock
> bands were musical nihilists.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@yale.edu---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35
>
> http://bestofmetal.net - The best moments in heavy metal history!
>
--
-x- gAY cHRIST rECORDS -x-
www.hessian.org/sites/gaychristrecords/
-x- gayc...@hessian.org -x- Fuck eBay!
Homer Simpson
<blackd...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3b27d47b...@news.mindspring.com...
> "Homer Simpson" <bst...@phenixcable.net> wrote:
>
> Is Paul Bostaph still their drummer? i remember when he was with
> Forbidden.
>
>
> Shaye
Slayer is having a bit of a drummer crisis. As far as I know, Bostaph is
SLayer's drummer, but he was kicked out of Slayer for a brief time from what
I understand. Slayer seems to be a little secretive. When I was big into
Metal Church I had a real hard time keeping up with their goings on, as
well. If they weren't on the road or in the studio, nobody knew what was
going on with them.
Bryant
Homer Simpson
> blackdiamond wrote:
>
> >Is Paul Bostaph still their drummer? i remember when he was with
> >Forbidden.
> >
> >
> >Shaye
>
>
>
> Yes, Paul is still with them and is an EXCELLENT drummer!
>
> Satticon
Bostaph is an adequate drummer, but Slayer is not the same without
Lombardo.
Bryant
Homer Simpson
> blackdiamond wrote:
>
> Well, as a Slayer fan, I'm supposed to! (pssst.... if Pantera plays
"Yesterday
> Don't Mean Shit", I might duck behind a fat guy and ROCK!!!)
>
> Satticon
I think the problem with Pantera is that Phil blew out his voice.
"Cowboys From Hell" sounds quite a bit different than their other stuff. If
you give that CD a spin, I think you'll like it better than most of their
other stuff.
Bryant
Homer Simpson
"Jim Antares" <jean...@aol.comKillSpam> wrote in message
news:20010614022004.22893.00002301@ng-> > Kerry King is a member of the
700 Club.
>
> Pat Robertson would just die for the opportunity to be on the same stage
as
> K.K., just needs to down some Jager first to work up some nerve.
> -Jim M.
>
Can't say I am much of a Christian, but Pat Robertson is actually one
smart guy. For a Jesus Crispy (thanks for the term Shane) the guy is loaded
to the hilt with gray matter. I watch the show from time to time when
flipping channels and I catch it on.
Bryant
blackd...@mindspring.com
>blackd...@mindspring.com wrote:
>: jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens) wrote:
>: So if a band does not fit into one of those (very limiting, IMO)
>: categories, they're not "metal"? What would you label Iron Maiden,
>: then? Or Anthrax? How about Skid Row? Priest? Warlock? Suicidal?
>: prong? What about "glam metal"? Does it not count?
>
>A lot of that doesn't count. I'm willing to let Iron Maiden, 80s Anthrax, and some Priest
>slip into the fold, but the others are out.
Warlock, ST, and Prong are what, then, rock and roll? ANd SR's second
album, at the very least is no less metal than some others you
mentioned. And, btw, exactly which sub-category do IM, JP, and
Anthrax fit into?
blackd...@mindspring.com
>blackdiamond wrote:
>
>>Um... yep. I used to love to listen to Reign in Blood in the car,
>>especially. I haven;t listened to much of it in quite a while, but,
>>go ahead, ask me a question. ;)
>
>Ok...
>Which song is better for exceeding the speed limit late at night while blitzed
>on Budweiser, "Raining Blood" or "Epidemic"?
Raining Blood, far and away, ahead of anything else... God, the trip
driving down the road, screaming "raining blood... from a lacerated
sky!" There is just something about that song, in particular, that is
like, the best driving song. If you don't mind some road rage. ;)
But blitzed on Bud? I dunno about that.
> >Tom Araya was a respiratory therapist
>>in... was it Argentina? Is that convincing enough? ;)
>
>You know your Slayer!
>
>>(not a geography
>>>expert but I think those places may be a long car ride for you?)...
>>
>>yep, looong ride. And I have weekends pretty much booked through at
>>least the end of July with archery, so... :(
>>
>
>Is he your boyfriend?
lol, might as well be!
>>lol, you laugh at Pantera (whom I also used to really like, and have
>>actually seen prolly more than any other band...
>
>Well, as a Slayer fan, I'm supposed to! (pssst.... if Pantera plays "Yesterday
>Don't Mean Shit", I might duck behind a fat guy and ROCK!!!)
>
ah. that's a rule I was hitherto unaware of. But as a girl, I get to
break most of them anyway.
blackd...@mindspring.com
> I think the problem with Pantera is that Phil blew out his voice.
>"Cowboys From Hell" sounds quite a bit different than their other stuff. If
>you give that CD a spin, I think you'll like it better than most of their
>other stuff.
>
Vulgar Display is far and away their best album, I think, tho I do
like CFH. VDoP is certainly in my Top 20.
blackd...@mindspring.com
> Bostaph is an adequate drummer, but Slayer is not the same without
>Lombardo.
I thought Dave Lombardo wa sthe shit, but Paul was right up there in
my list of Top 10 drummers at that time. Then Dave was such a total
asshole to us, and then he started losing it, so... long live Paul! ;)
blackd...@mindspring.com
> For a Jesus Crispy (thanks for the term Shane) t
I used that term last night, and every time I go, people are like
'what??' Then I usually get a 'oh, heh heh...' Long live Shru!
Satticon
band? But he came back pretty quick, I believe... something about a better
backstage spread....
Satticon
> Slayer is having a bit of a drummer crisis. As far as I know, Bostaph is
>SLayer's drummer, but he was kicked out of Slayer for a brief time from what
>I understand. Slayer seems to be a little secretive. When I was big into
>Metal Church I had a real hard time keeping up with their goings on, as
>well. If they weren't on the road or in the studio, nobody knew what was
>going on with them.
>
> Bryant
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Satticon
>Lombardo.
>
> Bryant
VERY true. But I think Bostaph is more than adequate, despite the 'difference'
in styles.
Nobody beats Lombardo in Slayer.
Satticon
Satticon
parting ways with Slayer? Phenomenal!!!! He really gets a chance to stretch out
and show his skills... although I would have preferred that he remain stifled
and unfullfilled making noise with Slayer.... :(
Man only (gulp!) ten days until.....
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Satticon
>>>go ahead, ask me a question. ;)
>>
>>Ok...
>>Which song is better for exceeding the speed limit late at night while
>blitzed
>>on Budweiser, "Raining Blood" or "Epidemic"?
>
>Raining Blood, far and away, ahead of anything else... God, the trip
>driving down the road, screaming "raining blood... from a lacerated
>sky!" There is just something about that song, in particular, that is
>like, the best driving song. If you don't mind some road rage. ;)
I LOVE that song! A couple of nights ago, there was a spectacular New England
lightning storm in a raging downpour... I was immersed in a bottle of Jack
Daniels at the time, and I was out on my porch screaming those lyrics into the
face of the storm - it was the most fun I've had in quite awhile, outside of
sex! BTW, sex and Slayer do NOT mix! Much better to pull out a long, steamy
live version of Sabbra Cadabra... not that anyone asked...
>But blitzed on Bud? I dunno about that.
>
Political correctness is sort of off-limits in ARRMO, so I just let that one
fly! Man, this Morbid Angel I am listening to is REALLY cool! Sort of like
Mortiis with a fuzzbox!
>And I have weekends pretty much booked through at
>>>least the end of July with archery, so... :(
>>>
>>
>>Is he your boyfriend?
>
>lol, might as well be!
>
Sounds like a cool hobby... I'm into explosives myself. Also I have a huge
potato cannon that I fire at the usually vacant house next door. I have found
that "White Rain" hairspray is one of the most reliable and safe propellants of
choice for the art of potato launching.
>>Well, as a Slayer fan, I'm supposed to! (pssst.... if Pantera plays
>"Yesterday
>>Don't Mean Shit", I might duck behind a fat guy and ROCK!!!)
>>
>
>ah. that's a rule I was hitherto unaware of. But as a girl, I get to
>break most of them anyway.
>
>
>Shaye
>
Yes, that's usually how it works. But we get the TOYS.
Homer Simpson
<blackd...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3b29343f...@news.mindspring.com...
> "Homer Simpson" <bst...@phenixcable.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Bostaph is an adequate drummer, but Slayer is not the same without
> >Lombardo.
>
> I thought Dave Lombardo wa sthe shit, but Paul was right up there in
> my list of Top 10 drummers at that time. Then Dave was such a total
> asshole to us, and then he started losing it, so... long live Paul! ;)
>
>
> Shaye
Nothing against Paull, but asshole or not, Dave is a machine. Only Kirk
Arrington and Mark Zonder could really challenge Dave for drum God of all
time IMNSHO.
Bryant
blackd...@mindspring.com
>I LOVE that song! A couple of nights ago, there was a spectacular New England
>lightning storm in a raging downpour... I was immersed in a bottle of Jack
>Daniels at the time, and I was out on my porch screaming those lyrics into the
>face of the storm - it was the most fun I've had in quite awhile, outside of
>sex! BTW, sex and Slayer do NOT mix! Much better to pull out a long, steamy
>live version of Sabbra Cadabra... not that anyone asked...
Well, uh... one of my first *real* sexual experiences consisted of a
night of Master of reality on repeat, so... *blush*
>>But blitzed on Bud? I dunno about that.
>>
>
>Political correctness is sort of off-limits in ARRMO, so I just let that one
>fly! Man, this Morbid Angel I am listening to is REALLY cool! Sort of like
>Mortiis with a fuzzbox!
Well, I don't generally drive while blitzed. but that wasn't my point.
It was the Bud I was taking issue with. :)
>Sounds like a cool hobby... I'm into explosives myself. Also I have a huge
>potato cannon that I fire at the usually vacant house next door. I have found
>that "White Rain" hairspray is one of the most reliable and safe propellants of
>choice for the art of potato launching.
Oh my GOD!! A friend of mine, her hubby, and I used to do that! What
a trip!
> >>Well, as a Slayer fan, I'm supposed to! (pssst.... if Pantera plays
>>"Yesterday
>>>Don't Mean Shit", I might duck behind a fat guy and ROCK!!!)
>>>
>>
>>ah. that's a rule I was hitherto unaware of. But as a girl, I get to
>>break most of them anyway.
>>
>>
>>Shaye
>>
>
>Yes, that's usually how it works. But we get the TOYS.
>
And we get multiple orgasms, so there. :P
blackd...@mindspring.com
>Dave *losing it*? Have you heard any Grip Inc, the band Dave started up after
>parting ways with Slayer? Phenomenal!!!! He really gets a chance to stretch out
>and show his skills... although I would have preferred that he remain stifled
>and unfullfilled making noise with Slayer.... :(
Yep. I got the first one... The power of something or other... They
just didn't do it for me. But I didn't really think he could keep up
all that double bass anymore... I may be wrong, just my impression at
the time. :)
BrutalNoodle
>
> satt...@aol.com (Satticon) wrote:
>
> >Dave *losing it*? Have you heard any Grip Inc, the band Dave started up after
> >parting ways with Slayer? Phenomenal!!!! He really gets a chance to stretch out
> >and show his skills... although I would have preferred that he remain stifled
> >and unfullfilled making noise with Slayer.... :(
>
> Yep. I got the first one... The power of something or other...
'The Power of Inner Strength' & it rips as well their
2nd release 'Nemesis'. Their 3rd 'Solidify' is a bit
too groovy for me, not thrashy enough.
They
> just didn't do it for me.
hmmmmm Most Slayer fans really like 'TPoIS".
But I didn't really think he could keep up
> all that double bass anymore... I may be wrong, just my impression at
> the time. :)
Dave is still more than capable of slamming the dbl
bass. Have you heard Testament's 'The Gathering'? If
not, get it, immediately!!!!!
BrutalNoodle
But Gene 'The Machine' Hoglan owns them all!! :-)
Satticon
>Much better to pull out a long, steamy
>>live version of Sabbra Cadabra... not that anyone asked...
>
>Well, uh... one of my first *real* sexual experiences consisted of a
>night of Master of reality on repeat, so... >*blush*
WOW! Please, I have an overactive imagination... no more....
>
>>>But blitzed on Bud? I dunno about that.
>>>
>>
>>Political correctness is sort of off-limits in ARRMO, so I just let that one
>>fly! Man, this Morbid Angel I am listening to is REALLY cool! Sort of like
>>Mortiis with a fuzzbox!
>
>Well, I don't generally drive while blitzed. but that wasn't my point.
>It was the Bud I was taking issue with. :)
Oh no, not another Guiness nut!!!
>
>
>>Sounds like a cool hobby... I'm into explosives myself. Also I have a huge
>>potato cannon that I fire at the usually vacant house next door. I have
>found
>>that "White Rain" hairspray is one of the most reliable and safe propellants
>of
>>choice for the art of potato launching.
>
>Oh my GOD!! A friend of mine, her hubby, and I used to do that! What
>a trip!
Then you know the exhilaration of spud... hey!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!RAINING SPUDS!!!!!!!!!!!
..... from a lightly salted sky.....
needing it's ketchup.....
creating my beltline....
Now I shall RAIN SPUDS!!!!!
>
>> >>Well, as a Slayer fan, I'm supposed to! (pssst.... if Pantera plays
>>>"Yesterday
>>>>Don't Mean Shit", I might duck behind a fat guy and ROCK!!!)
>>>>
>>>
>>>ah. that's a rule I was hitherto unaware of. But as a girl, I get to
>>>break most of them anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>>Shaye
>>>
>>
>>Yes, that's usually how it works. But we get the TOYS.
>>
>
>And we get multiple orgasms, so there. :P
There goes my overactive imagination again! Excuse me, I have a sudden peculiar
craving for some Master Of Reality.... actually, I'm late for work!
Satticon OUT
>
>
>Shaye
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>* * * * * *
> "We are our own wicked gods, with little g's and big dicks,
> Sadisitic, constantly inflicting a slow demise..."
> -- "My Monkey," Marilyn
>Manson
>
>
>
>
>
>
DEMENTED
lyrics I was inside doing the nasty! Heheh. It was the most fun!
DEMENED
Satticon <satt...@aol.com> wrote in message news:;)
>
> I LOVE that song! A couple of nights ago, there was a spectacular New
England
> lightning storm in a raging downpour... I was immersed in a bottle of Jack
> Daniels at the time, and I was out on my porch screaming those lyrics into
the
> face of the storm - it was the most fun I've had in quite awhile, outside
of
> sex! BTW, sex and Slayer do NOT mix! Much better to pull out a long,
steamy
> live version of Sabbra Cadabra... not that anyone asked...
>
> >But blitzed on Bud? I dunno about that.
> >
DEMENTED
<blackd...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3b297a83...@news.mindspring.com...
> satt...@aol.com (Satticon) wrote:
>
Multiple orgasms eh ? Tell me more young maiden, and don't leave out the
details!
DEMENTED
Rocker95
> Oh no, not another Guiness nut!!!
Yer as bad as Demented... mind your "n's" young Salemite
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GUINNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
blackd...@mindspring.com
>
>But Gene 'The Machine' Hoglan owns them all!! :-)
Plus, Gene is ten times a nicer guy than Dave! :)
blackd...@mindspring.com
>blackdiamond wrote:
>>Well, I don't generally drive while blitzed. but that wasn't my point.
>>It was the Bud I was taking issue with. :)
>
>Oh no, not another Guiness nut!!!
>
Nope. Actually, i drink "girlie" beer when i drink beer' Two Dogs.
beyond that, it's liquor. I just can't drink more than 1 or 2 regular
beers or I get really full. ??
>>Oh my GOD!! A friend of mine, her hubby, and I used to do that! What
>>a trip!
>
>Then you know the exhilaration of spud... hey!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!RAINING SPUDS!!!!!!!!!!!
>..... from a lightly salted sky.....
>needing it's ketchup.....
>creating my beltline....
>Now I shall RAIN SPUDS!!!!!
>
That was a fucking riot!!! :)
As for your imaginiation, well, I can't do anything about that.
blackd...@mindspring.com
Satticon
>lyrics I was inside doing the nasty! Heheh. It was the most fun!
> DEMENED
>
Hahah it only takes a minute to sing "Raining Blood", Demented, I hope it took
you longer than that to 'do the nasty'!!! Did you hear me? I mean, I was
SCREAMING!
NightKeeper
flakes isn't cereal. The term heavy metal came from the industrial sections
of England where Sabbith was born. Because the music was reminiscent of the
sounds coming from the steal mills and such, the sounds of machinery,
hydraulics and pounding, air valves releasing pressure, screaching and
grinding of metal against metal. Black Sabbith is one of the founders of
metal. No disrespect intended, but sounds like someone is new to the metal
scene, fresh from maybe country or rap. And yes, Nervana and all grunge is a
form of metal, which is a form of rock, which is a form of blues.
"Jason Sorens" <jp...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote in message
news:9g5bls$m4t$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu...
> Nick Soapdish Jr (jgord...@aol.com1234) wrote:
>
> : Ever listen to Laguna Sunrise? Embryo? The dramatic leads in NIB? How
about
> : Spiral Architect? Supertzar? I'm wondering if you've heard any Sabbath
aside
> : from the 3 or so songs heard on the radio......
>
> I've heard all those except Spiral Architect. I don't know how you can
describe the leads
> in NIB as "dramatic"; it sounds like proto-Skynyrd honky-tonk to me. In
addition, I used
> to own "We Sold Our Souls for Rock'n'Roll," which sucked, and I do own
"Heaven and Hell,"
> which is pretty good but definitely not heavy metal.
>
> : As for the "deep rumbling bass", remember the term "heavy metal" uses
the
> : word "HEAVY". I think the members of Iron Maiden would seriously
disagree with
> : you about Sabbath not being metal......
>
> Probably, but Iron Maiden still seems to be stuck in 1983. Maybe BS was
metal by the
> definition of the term in 1983, but they bear little relation to bands
like Dissection,
> Nevermore, & Helloween, to take some random examples.
>
> : As for grunge, some of it WAS more or less heavy metal. Dramatic,
shifting
> : away from the I-iv-v pattern of blues.
>
> Grunge was derivative of punk; I wouldn't describe any of it as heavy meta
l, unless you
> consider punk & hardcore to be types of heavy metal.
>
> : Also, not all metal is necessarily
> : classica in soundl; I'm talking more in terms of composition.
>
> Of course! The vast majority of metal is not classical in *sound*.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@yale.edu---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35
>
> http://bestofmetal.net - The best moments in heavy metal history!
Taliban Funster
<captain...@home.com> wrote:
>If I may just be a dick here for one minute...
>(not a problem, I'm a trained professional!)
>
>I am fairly certain that John Kay of Steppenwolf coined the term
>"heavy metal" In the classic "Born to Be Wild" circa 1968 MCA records
>(written in 1967)
>
Doesn't the term have some literary origin? Or perhaps Lester Bangs
coined it?
The Taliban Funster
"It takes great hatred to make caricature and satire."
-Anais Nin
Jason Sorens
: How can you say Black Sabbith isn't haevy metal. That's like saying corn
: flakes isn't cereal. The term heavy metal came from the industrial sections
: of England where Sabbith was born. Because the music was reminiscent of the
: sounds coming from the steal mills and such, the sounds of machinery,
: hydraulics and pounding, air valves releasing pressure, screaching and
: grinding of metal against metal. Black Sabbith is one of the founders of
: metal. No disrespect intended, but sounds like someone is new to the metal
: scene, fresh from maybe country or rap. And yes, Nervana and all grunge is a
: form of metal, which is a form of rock, which is a form of blues.
You obviously know very little about me. ;) The term "heavy metal" obviously originated
before 1980, but in my original post I said that "metal as we know it today" didn't really
exist until about 1980. Black Sabbath may have been "heavy metal" once, but it bears
little relation to the bands that wear that name today. And as for your statements that
grunge is a form of metal, and metal a form of rock, I've dealt with these misconceptions
elsewhere. Sounds like you might be the person new to metal. You apparently think
Nirvana is metal. Are you also a Def Leppard fan?
Triple...@hotmail.com
> >I am fairly certain that John Kay of Steppenwolf coined the term
> >"heavy metal" In the classic "Born to Be Wild" circa 1968 MCA records
(written in 1967)
> >
> Doesn't the term have some literary origin? Or perhaps Lester Bangs
> coined it?
William Burroughs.
John
Taliban Funster
Yeah, is it from Naked Lunch? But who applied it to a sonority?
Triple...@hotmail.com
> >William Burroughs.
>
> Yeah, is it from Naked Lunch? But who applied it to a sonority?
I did a quick search on the WWW and found a few quotes:
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/sixties-l/0021.html
"Another possibility was that "Chas" was mis-attributing "Creem" magazine.
Biographers of the late Lester Bangs claim that he coined the phrase from
the William S. Burrough's story "The Heavy Metal Kid."
As for the first heavy metal song, most media people claim it was
Blue Cheer, but I'd personally go with Black Sabbath.
john
DEMENTED
demented
<Triple...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9gqndr$imb$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
blackd...@mindspring.com
> And as for your statements that
>grunge is a form of metal, and metal a form of rock, I've dealt with these misconceptions
>elsewhere.
So metal isn't a form of rock?
Jason Sorens
: jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens) wrote:
: > And as for your statements that
: >grunge is a form of metal, and metal a form of rock, I've dealt with these misconceptions
: >elsewhere.
: So metal isn't a form of rock?
Not at all. Most metal, as we understand it today, is based on structures
derived from classical music and, occasionally, jazz. In fact, that metal
which does include rock elements is particularly noticeable these days
precisely because it is rather rare.
Triple...@hotmail.com
news:3b30e5c0$0$1...@wodc7nh6.news.uu.net...
> Blue Cheer? their cover of"Summertime Blues"? Hmmmm...........
Yeah.... That's the typical "first metal song" listed by the media.
Sounds like bullshit to me. Again, I'm going with Sabbath as
being the innovators, the architects, etc.. :-)
John
Triple...@hotmail.com
??> : So metal isn't a form of rock?
>
> Not at all. Most metal, as we understand it today, is based on structures
derived from classical music and, occasionally, jazz. In fact, that metal
which does include rock elements is particularly noticeable these days
precisely because it is rather rare.
You're totally wrong. Metal is about the closest thing to "pure" rock
out. Its one of the few things that is true to pure rock out today.
Most of what is called "rock" today isn't "rock and roll" or "rock"
at all.
Classical music and Jazz have nothing to do with metal. Its more
blues with an electric guitar.
John
blackd...@mindspring.com
>blackd...@mindspring.com wrote:
>: jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens) wrote:
>
>: > And as for your statements that
>: >grunge is a form of metal, and metal a form of rock, I've dealt with these misconceptions
>: >elsewhere.
>
>: So metal isn't a form of rock?
>
>Not at all. Most metal, as we understand it today, is based on structures
>derived from classical music and, occasionally, jazz. In fact, that metal
>which does include rock elements is particularly noticeable these days
>precisely because it is rather rare.
>
Well, no offense, but I think that's not exactly accurate. give me an
example of today's "typical metal" having a structure derived from
classical music *or* jazz. Prog rock, maybe, but not "typical" metal,
even as you define it.
Metal has more in common with bloues and even country than classical,
usually.
Homer Simpson
<blackd...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3b30ff0...@news.mindspring.com...
> jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens) wrote:
>
> > And as for your statements that
> >grunge is a form of metal, and metal a form of rock, I've dealt with
these misconceptions
> >elsewhere.
>
> So metal isn't a form of rock?
>
>
> Shaye
Metal is usually an alloy, or a mineral element as we know it. It's basic
mineral form can be found in rock foundations and normally has to be
excavated then extracted in various ways. Therefore metal does come from
rock. Any questions ? >:P~~
Bryant
Homer Simpson
<blackd...@mindspring.com> >
> Metal has more in common with bloues and even country than classical,
> usually.
>
>
> Shaye
>
Are you high ? Your typemanship has much to be desired in this post. Been
straying away from RMAQ too long ? >:P~
Bryant
Taliban Funster
wrote:
>: So metal isn't a form of rock?
>
>Not at all. Most metal, as we understand it today, is based on structures
>derived from classical music and, occasionally, jazz. In fact, that metal
>which does include rock elements is particularly noticeable these days
>precisely because it is rather rare.
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@yale.edu---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35
Jason,
If anyone knows anything, it's that anyone from Yale is NOT to
be believed on cultural matters pertaining to the sonic. It is what
it is.
You have some great words there, but you're not putting them
in an order that belies any understanding. Are you a computer? Or a
Garth Brooks fan? Here, have some Scotch.
blackd...@mindspring.com
>
><blackd...@mindspring.com> >
>> Metal has more in common with bloues and even country than classical,
>> usually.
>>
>>
>> Shaye
>>
>
> Are you high ?
Not on 1 beer, I'm not.
>Your typemanship has much to be desired in this post. Been
>straying away from RMAQ too long ? >:P~
Heh, well, let;s just say my mind was elsewhere.
blackd...@mindspring.com
>
>> So metal isn't a form of rock?
>>
>>
>> Shaye
>
> Metal is usually an alloy, or a mineral element as we know it. It's basic
>mineral form can be found in rock foundations and normally has to be
>excavated then extracted in various ways. Therefore metal does come from
>rock. Any questions ? >:P~~
Well, aren't we just full of information tonight?
Guess who's going to be in your neck of the woods Saturday, btw...
Homer Simpson
<blackd...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3b315bd0...@news.mindspring.com...
> "Homer Simpson" <bst...@phenixcable.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >> So metal isn't a form of rock?
> >>
> >>
> >> Shaye
> >
> > Metal is usually an alloy, or a mineral element as we know it. It's
basic
> >mineral form can be found in rock foundations and normally has to be
> >excavated then extracted in various ways. Therefore metal does come from
> >rock. Any questions ? >:P~~
>
> Well, aren't we just full of information tonight?
>
> Guess who's going to be in your neck of the woods Saturday, btw...
>
>
> Shaye
Cool, I'm off this weekend.
Bryant
Jason Sorens
: Classical music and Jazz have nothing to do with metal. Its more
: blues with an electric guitar.
LOL!! The irony is, of course, that blues *is* actually played with an
electric guitar, sometimes with distortion.
Jason Sorens
: Well, no offense, but I think that's not exactly accurate. give me an
: example of today's "typical metal" having a structure derived from
: classical music *or* jazz. Prog rock, maybe, but not "typical" metal,
: even as you define it.
: Metal has more in common with bloues and even country than classical,
: usually.
Maybe once, but I'd say that's no longer true. Here are some 'newer' metal
bands that are fundamentally classical: After Forever, Amon Amarth (in their
soloing style), Angel Dust, Angra, Arcturus, Armageddon, Black Symphony, Blind
Guardian (also folk), Borknagar, Children of Bodom, Covenant (before they
became The Kovenant), Dark Moor, Dark Tranquillity, Daylight Dies, Dream
Theater (also jazz), Dreams of Sanity, Edguy, Even Song, EverEve, Falconer,
Freedom Call, Gamma Ray, Haggard,... I guess I'll stop there. Those metal
bands that still use a simple rock'n'roll groove are very distinctive because
of their rarity: late-period Carcass, Cathedral, Gorefest, maybe Hammerfall.
Cathedral's so far in that direction I hesitate to call them metal,
post-"Equilibrium."
Triple...@hotmail.com
> : Classical music and Jazz have nothing to do with metal. Its more
> : blues with an electric guitar.
>
> LOL!! The irony is, of course, that blues *is* actually played with an
> electric guitar, sometimes with distortion.
What are they teaching you at Yale?
John
blackd...@mindspring.com
>blackd...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
>: Well, no offense, but I think that's not exactly accurate. give me an
>: example of today's "typical metal" having a structure derived from
>: classical music *or* jazz. Prog rock, maybe, but not "typical" metal,
>: even as you define it.
>
>: Metal has more in common with bloues and even country than classical,
>: usually.
>
>Maybe once, but I'd say that's no longer true. Here are some 'newer' metal
>bands that are fundamentally classical: After Forever, Amon Amarth (in their
>soloing style), Angel Dust, Angra, Arcturus, Armageddon, Black Symphony, Blind
>Guardian (also folk), Borknagar, Children of Bodom, Covenant (before they
>became The Kovenant), Dark Moor, Dark Tranquillity, Daylight Dies, Dream
>Theater (also jazz), Dreams of Sanity, Edguy, Even Song, EverEve, Falconer,
>Freedom Call, Gamma Ray, Haggard,... I guess I'll stop there.
And all those (that I've heard anyway) belong in a sort of
sub-category (that I pointed out because i had a feeling these were
the types of bands you'd bring up), like 'proggy metal' or something.
They certainly do not define metal, or even "typical" metal.
>Those metal
>bands that still use a simple rock'n'roll groove are very distinctive because
>of their rarity: late-period Carcass, Cathedral, Gorefest, maybe Hammerfall.
>Cathedral's so far in that direction I hesitate to call them metal,
>post-"Equilibrium."
Hmmm, what I heard of carcass and Cathedral i would say isn't too far
removed from some of the aforementioned bands.
However, I think you do a great disservice to music in general by
trying to fit it into neat little boxes, as so much of it is really a
blending of styles, and really unique as to its own style.
blackd...@mindspring.com
>
>
> Cool, I'm off this weekend.
Doh! i got my shoots mixed up- I'll be down there in 2 weeks for the
state shoot, but i am up here this weekend. Sorry! How about then?
:)
Shaye
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
"Not all girls are sugar & spice & everything nice.
Some of us are whips & chains & things that bring pain."
-March '99 Playboy
Taliban Funster
Arrogance as a major, with a minor in general pomposity.
Homer Simpson
<blackd...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3b326ae3...@news.mindspring.com...
> "Homer Simpson" <bst...@phenixcable.net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
> > Cool, I'm off this weekend.
>
> Doh! i got my shoots mixed up- I'll be down there in 2 weeks for the
> state shoot, but i am up here this weekend. Sorry! How about then?
> :)
>
>
> Shaye
I work next weekend. That would be the 29th 30th and 1'st ?
Bryant
Triple...@hotmail.com
> >What are they teaching you at Yale?
> >
> Arrogance as a major, with a minor in general pomposity.
Ma and Pa are getting their money's worth then.
John
blackd...@mindspring.com
> I work next weekend. That would be the 29th 30th and 1'st ?
>
7th & 8th of july is when i will be down. the shoot's in valley, so
no getting up at the crack of dawn for me that weekend! Oh, and I'll
actually be down that friday... is that little metal club still open?
maybe we could go. if you're off and your wife wants to!
Gee, i guess this is more appropriate to e-mail eh? Oh, well, screw
y'all. :P
Jason Sorens
: >Maybe once, but I'd say that's no longer true. Here are some 'newer' metal
: >bands that are fundamentally classical: After Forever, Amon Amarth (in their
: >soloing style), Angel Dust, Angra, Arcturus, Armageddon, Black Symphony, Blind
: >Guardian (also folk), Borknagar, Children of Bodom, Covenant (before they
: >became The Kovenant), Dark Moor, Dark Tranquillity, Daylight Dies, Dream
: >Theater (also jazz), Dreams of Sanity, Edguy, Even Song, EverEve, Falconer,
: >Freedom Call, Gamma Ray, Haggard,... I guess I'll stop there.
: And all those (that I've heard anyway) belong in a sort of
: sub-category (that I pointed out because i had a feeling these were
: the types of bands you'd bring up), like 'proggy metal' or something.
: They certainly do not define metal, or even "typical" metal.
I wouldn't consider most of those to be prog, but I think most metal nowadays
is "sort of" progressive. What do you consider to be a "typical" metal band?
Slipknot? Kid Rock? Or bands like Scorpions and Def Leppard? :-P
: >Those metal
: >bands that still use a simple rock'n'roll groove are very distinctive because
: >of their rarity: late-period Carcass, Cathedral, Gorefest, maybe Hammerfall.
: >Cathedral's so far in that direction I hesitate to call them metal,
: >post-"Equilibrium."
: Hmmm, what I heard of carcass and Cathedral i would say isn't too far
: removed from some of the aforementioned bands.
I'm thinking of Carcass' "Swansong" album. Before that they were pretty
complex & riff-intensive.
: However, I think you do a great disservice to music in general by
: trying to fit it into neat little boxes, as so much of it is really a
: blending of styles, and really unique as to its own style.
: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
: "We are our own wicked gods, with little g's and big dicks,
: Sadisitic, constantly inflicting a slow demise..."
: -- "My Monkey," Marilyn Manson
Oh, I just noticed the Marilyn Manson quote. This explains everything.
Jason Sorens
: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:38:35 -0400, <Triple...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >Jason Sorens <jp...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote in message
: >
: >> : Classical music and Jazz have nothing to do with metal. Its more
: >> : blues with an electric guitar.
: >>
: >> LOL!! The irony is, of course, that blues *is* actually played with an
: >> electric guitar, sometimes with distortion.
: >
: >What are they teaching you at Yale?
: >
: >John
: >
: Arrogance as a major, with a minor in general pomposity.
Damn, those grapes are sour, ain't they?
Taliban Funster
wrote:
>
>Damn, those grapes are sour, ain't they?
>
You be nice, this is state-school country. Meet you on the tennis
courts, Buffy.
PS . You like butt metal. A lot. So not only do you drive a BMer,
you are a BMer. So there.
Homer Simpson
<blackd...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3b32bb23...@news.mindspring.com...
> "Homer Simpson" <bst...@phenixcable.net> wrote:
>
>
> > I work next weekend. That would be the 29th 30th and 1'st ?
> >
>
> 7th & 8th of july is when i will be down. the shoot's in valley, so
> no getting up at the crack of dawn for me that weekend! Oh, and I'll
> actually be down that friday... is that little metal club still open?
> maybe we could go. if you're off and your wife wants to!
>
> Gee, i guess this is more appropriate to e-mail eh? Oh, well, screw
> y'all. :P
>
>
> Shaye
I am off that weekend. In fact, I am off Friday Sat and Sun (as far as I
know.) The little club is dead. : ( I hear they are going to turn it into
some kind of dance club. >: Still there's cool places to go. I am sure
Columbus will be wide open on that weekend being around the Fourth and all.
There's a new Lesban club. You could bring D&L down. We actually went in
there once. The place looked pretty cool but the Techno music got under my
skin real quick. Anyway, I am sure we can find a cool place to kill some
brain cells.
Bryant
blackd...@mindspring.com
<snip>
>Oh, I just noticed the Marilyn Manson quote. This explains everything.
Ya know... I was trying to carry on a reasonable discussion, but your
inability to do so and subsequent reversion to ad hominem "arguments"
has taken away that desire of mine.
Suffice it to say you're wrong and an elitist bastard... at best. But
I suppose you have to make up for that 3 1/2 inch penis in some way,
eh?
Shaye
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
"In silence we walk through these shadows
Embracing the pleasures of pain, once again..." - 'Transmission,' TTP
Jason Sorens
: On 22 Jun 2001 12:40:30 GMT, jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens)
: wrote:
: >
: >Damn, those grapes are sour, ain't they?
: >
: You be nice, this is state-school country. Meet you on the tennis
: courts, Buffy.
: PS . You like butt metal. A lot. So not only do you drive a BMer,
: you are a BMer. So there.
Oh yes, I forgot, Cream and Iron Butterfly are "real metal," while everything made after
1970 is "butt metal." Or are the Beatles "real metal," while everything made after 1965
is "butt metal"? I keep getting it confused...
BTW, I'm a married grad student at Yale under my own resources. But don't let the facts
get in the way of your prejudices.
Jason Sorens
: jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens) wrote:
: <snip>
: >Oh, I just noticed the Marilyn Manson quote. This explains everything.
: Ya know... I was trying to carry on a reasonable discussion, but your
: inability to do so and subsequent reversion to ad hominem "arguments"
: has taken away that desire of mine.
: Suffice it to say you're wrong and an elitist bastard... at best. But
: I suppose you have to make up for that 3 1/2 inch penis in some way,
: eh?
Voici - the product of our "democratic" society. Here's some advice from the Latin:
DICTIUS TE NECARE.
C_L_S
>
> BTW, I'm a married grad student at Yale under my own resources. But don't
let the facts
> get in the way of your prejudices.
See, this is what gets me. You can always find the insecure wankers
slithering amongst us because they'll drop hints and names in order to
impress. I'll enjoy watching you try to justify engaging in such an
insanely stupid display of braggadocio, but you'll invariably fail. It was
so incredibly tangential to the subject of whether you are (and you
definitely are) or are not a buttmetal afficionado, that it's teetering
precariously on the precipice of being a nonsequitur ---- and a nonsequitur
that makes you look like a total and complete chump to boot!
Crawdad
Jason Sorens
C_L_S (thecr...@bigfoot.com) wrote:
: "Jason Sorens" <jp...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote in message
: news:9h0cap$6u5$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu...
If you had been following the thread, you would have known that a couple of fools jumped
in & gave voice to assumptions that I was some 18-year-old rich kid sent here by my
parents. That's what I call insecurity!
saffron's curse
However metal as we know it today (metal not nu-metal) came from the early
1980's thanks to Metallica. There were all these glam rock bands and
Metallica thought they would do something a little different and gave us all
that blessing in disguise known as thrash.
I do think that metal comes from rock, rock is closer to metal on the scale
of music than say dance, but the question is; does dance qualify as music?
Who knows? Who the hell cares? I think metal is a big combination of lots
of different styles of music.
Sidney
Nick Soapdish Jr
>From: jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens)
>Date: 6/22/2001 4:13 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9h0cdc$6u5$2...@news.ycc.yale.edu>
>
>blackd...@mindspring.com wrote:
>: jp...@pantheon.yale.edu (Jason Sorens) wrote:
>
>: <snip>
>
>: >Oh, I just noticed the Marilyn Manson quote. This explains everything.
>
>: Ya know... I was trying to carry on a reasonable discussion, but your
>: inability to do so and subsequent reversion to ad hominem "arguments"
>: has taken away that desire of mine.
>
>: Suffice it to say you're wrong and an elitist bastard... at best. But
>: I suppose you have to make up for that 3 1/2 inch penis in some way,
>: eh?
>
>Voici - the product of our "democratic" society. Here's some advice from the
>Latin:
>DICTIUS TE NECARE.
What do you expect, Mr. Sorens? You insulted the guy, and you expect him to
just take it without responding in kind? So he has a Marilyn Manson quote;
that's his perogative, and has no bearing on his arguments. I'm not sure why
you're so worked up about the association between rock and metal; it seems that
you might be trying to associate liking metal with intellectualism, which is as
pointless as that one guy's "butt-metal" comments.
Everybody just freakin' chill out. Claiming that metal is not the child of
old-fashioned rock 'n roll is not going to win any "culture points", and said
"culture points" are worthless as it is.
Jim Gordon
"I've got a fever...and the only prescription...is more cowbell!"
-Christopher Walken
"If passion denies you, don't die on your knees...."
-Virgin Steele