YOUR FEEDBACK IS IMPORTANT! Show your support for the new newsgroup. Or not.
Michael Zarlenga
As many of you are aware, Verizon has cut access to alt.*. AT&T and Time
Warner have decided to do the same. Other ISPs have indicated they will
soon follow suit.
The only certain Usenet access soon will be the "Big 8."
The process of petitioning for a "Big 8" group to replace
alt.rhode_island and provide a new online home to our merry, motley
community of Rhode Islanders and ex-Rhode Islander has begun.
One of the criteria that we need to meet is support (the following is
from news.groups.proposals):
> Given that some folks seem to be objecting to the rationale,
> I suggest the proponent or a supporter run a week-long
> poll on the alt group to see how many people oppose or
> support the proposal to create a Big-8 equivalent. Then
> report the results here.
PLEASE RESPOND HERE WITHIN ONE WEEK AND INDICATE WHETHER YOU OPPOSE OR
SUPPORT A NEW NEWSGROUP.
Also, please notify via e-mail as many other regular alt.rhode_islanders
who might not see this that we need their feedback ASAP.
We have only 1 week to show our support (or not) for the new newsgroup.
Thank you.
tom.re...@verizon.net
I already posted support for your proposal in the NG you cited in your
first post regarding this. I assumed it was the correct place to
voice endorsement of your proposal. I hope others do so too, but one
voice from the wilderness has posted an objection since he can't
understand why folks simply don't use his news reader or something
like than. The logic seems like "why have Fords when Chevies are
nice." I hope it works as I find the inconvenience (to me anyway)
causing me to drift away already
ctowers
Of course we object to what these ISP's are doing, they're killing this
group with their kindness, the idiots.
--
_ct_
rjdriver
"Michael Zarlenga" <mzar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:WPNhk.18337$Ri.1...@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
We seem to be going to a lot of trouble for nothing.
Maybe I missed it, but what was the objection to using aioe.org?
Bob
P
> PLEASE RESPOND HERE WITHIN ONE WEEK AND INDICATE WHETHER YOU
> OPPOSE OR
> SUPPORT A NEW NEWSGROUP.
>
> Also, please notify via e-mail as many other regular
> alt.rhode_islanders who might not see this that we need their
> feedback ASAP.
>
> We have only 1 week to show our support (or not) for the new
> newsgroup.
>
> Thank you.
I vote yea.
I'd also like to be compensated for my vote...say 3 dozen steamers?
Abridged Email
no peference provided te community finds ahome somewhere
Michael Zarlenga
If you want to debate the specifics, please start another thread and
then, when you decide, return here and vote.
P
> PEOPLE! Please ... yes/support or no/oppose.
yes/support
but I still want my steamers..
Fafar
>PLEASE RESPOND HERE WITHIN ONE WEEK AND INDICATE WHETHER YOU OPPOSE OR
>SUPPORT A NEW NEWSGROUP.
As a long time lurker and occasional poster I suppoort the proposal.
I'll follow the herd wherever they lead me.
Grrly Girl
news:g6ng84lp4ltg3i7na...@4ax.com...
YES - support
Breaking into singing mode "...I will follow him where ever he may go.
There ain't no mountain high enough..."
pla
> Maybe I missed it, but what was the objection to using aioe.org?
20+ major ISPs have now signed on to Cuomo's little scam. How well
do you think AIOE will hold up under 100x the load? It *already*
goes slow enough that you need to boost your timeout period if you
try to post something. Now extend that to even *reading* posts,
and you'll see the problem.
- pla
pla
> PEOPLE! Please ... yes/support or no/oppose.
I'll vote "yes", despite my commentary on the issue.
- pla
Laury
"pla" <myha...@stone.delete.tmok.remove.com> wrote in message
news:g6a0tp$9sc$3...@news.mixmin.net...
> Michael Zarlenga wrote:
> > PEOPLE! Please ... yes/support or no/oppose.
>
Yes! I seem to be missing Z's original post. Hmmm.
Laury
O
wrote:
I'm with pla. Yes. Let no one's post go uncounted.
-Owen
C.C.
I'll put a bookmark for the new site in my browser and in a few months
decide whether the old or new forum works for me. Don't want to have
to check 2 RI forums every day, so whichever one has most relevant and
interesting postings, wins.
C.C.
tom.re...@verizon.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
So, endorse it already! :)
bet...@gmail.com
YES! YES!! Keep us together whatever it takes.
Betz
Mary (RI)
YES!!! I support the new newsgroup! What else do you need me to do?
M.C.
Anonymous Remailer
> So, endorse it already! :)
And don't forget that replies which are not cross posted to the correct
group will not be seen by those who will make the decision.
C.C.
Nope. I'm happy with google access. Too bad for you fency-dency
newsreader provider subscribers. KISS (acronym)
C.c.
C.C.
Michael Zarlenga
> And don't forget that replies which are not cross posted to the correct
> group will not be seen by those who will make the decision.
The request was that we conduct the poll HERE. After one week I will
report back to news.groups.proposals with the results.
So just post here.
Michael Zarlenga
> Nope. I'm happy with google access. Too bad for you fency-dency
> newsreader provider subscribers. KISS (acronym)
You can still use Google access for the new group.
Pat_RI
"C.C." <carol...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:70d70135-98b9-4f5a...@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
ctowers
> On Jul 24, 4:59 pm, tom.reynol...@verizon.net wrote:
>>
>> So, endorse it already! :)
>
> Nope. I'm happy with google access. Too bad for you fency-dency
> newsreader provider subscribers. KISS (acronym)
>
What kind of logic is that? *Everyone* in the group will suffer because the
total group participation will fall.
--
_ct_
A
This doesn't affect me -- I pay $10 a year for the "German news server"
and get just about any newsgroup ever dreamed of -- but I am loath to lose
a single reader/poster of the current alt.r_i. Everyone contributes to the
mix in a unique way.
So: YES!
- Anne
ctowers
Huh? We're both saying "YES we object to what these ISP's are doing (i.e
cutting access to the alt* groups)". So what's the problem?
And it does affect everyone, including you. Not everyone is willing to pay
extra money just to access these groups. If fewer people can access them
then fewer people will be reading and replying to their content. Therefore
total group participation will fall and you'll be indirectly affected.
--
_ct_
P
"ctowers" <cto...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:g6bds4$ko0$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
I would think KISS is more applicable to those using their
newsreaders to access groups<S>
But that's just my fency-dency(I always thought it was
fancy-dancy?) opinion..
A
> Huh? We're both saying "YES we object to what these ISP's are doing (i.e
> cutting access to the alt* groups)". So what's the problem?
No problem!
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES! Want new newsgroup! Want full
participation! YES YES YES!
- A.
oy
pla
> What kind of logic is that? *Everyone* in the group will
> suffer because the total group participation will fall.
Not really... I'd call it a near-certainty that we will all
either migrate or stay here. The "real" question centers
around whether enough (ie, nearly all) of us can/will obtain
an alternate USENET feed to continue using the "alt" group.
If we can, then we have no need to move. If not, then those
who insist on staying in the alt group will get rather
lonely talking to themselves.
- pla
C.C.
And I don't know why all of the a.ri people can't simply bookmark the
google a.r.i. site on their browsers and just click on it. Or just
type in "alt.rhode_island" after logging onto "http://
groups.google.com". What's the difference in time and effort?
So I'll still check in on any new group once in a while -- I post so
rarely that it doesn't matter to the group -- but I don't want to be
blamed for the group not getting a new group that they seem to think
they need, so I will hereby endorse the founding of a new group. KISS
the old group goodbye, I guess.
C.C.
C.C.
> "ctowers" <ctow...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I was raised to pronounce it with a NY Yiddish accent.
C.C.
C.C.
So, if I can still use Google access for the new group, can't you all
use Google access for the old group?
C.C.
ctowers
Why do you need a car, can't you still use a bike? Same logic applies
(faster, easier, etc.) and it's difficult to explain to someone who's never
tried alternatives.
--
_ct_
C.C.
Well, WHY do I need an internet car, when my bike works just fine?
Please explain to me just how the new group will make access so much
faster, easier, and no more expensive (i.e., free). I really don't
know.
C.C.
Christopher Martin
> PLEASE RESPOND HERE WITHIN ONE WEEK AND INDICATE WHETHER YOU OPPOSE OR
> SUPPORT A NEW NEWSGROUP.
I don't oppose a new newsgroup, so you can take that as support if you
like.
I've been using NewsGuy for over a year now so it doesn't matter to me
what the NG is called or whether its part of the Big8 or not, so long as
I can continue to lurk and throw in my requisite bi-annual (or so) two
cents.
If that seems too noncommittal for some of you, take this: YES, YES,
YES! I SUPPORT THIS IDEA WITH EVERY FIBER, EVERY MOLECULE, EVERY ATOM,
EVERY FRIGGIN' ELECTRON OF MY BEING. I LOVE YOU ALL! I CAN'T LIVE
WITHOUT YOU! NO POSTER LEFT BEHIND! ATTICA! ATTICA!
Christopher
PS: Kim doesn't do UseNet, but I forward posts to her that I think
she'll be interested in. If it's reasonable to do so, you may put her
down as a 'yes', too.
-------------------------------------------------
Quahog.org: the definitive Rhode Island road trip
-------------------------------------------------
tom.re...@verizon.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yikes! Mary is here too :-)
tom.re...@verizon.net
I am not sure you get it. You will still be able to use google to
access. And we will be less likely to see new "members" without the
change. Folks like myself would never have discovered this RI
interest group using Google groups since we never useed it, rather
using Outlook express and similar software and going through our ISP.
In the future, such folks entering "Rhoide Island" in the search field
will find the group if it is in the "Big 8." Pla has laid it out well
in terms of gear heads vs the rest of the universe.
Michael Zarlenga
> So, if I can still use Google access for the new group, can't you all
> use Google access for the old group?
You're assuming that Google will not follow the ISPs and drop access to
groups outside the Big-8.
clams_casino
Google does nothing about spam (claiming it's free speech), what makes
you think they will do anything about newsgroups?
ctowers
The advantages are too numerous to detail and I don't have enough expertise
with the various OS's and ISP's to be able to address every situation.
Perhaps if you provided this group with the type of OS you're using (MS,
Apple, Linux) and the name of your ISP (AT&T, Verizon, Cox, etc.) someone
would be able to help you do a quick set-up on your computer. It wouldn't
hurt to ask.
Another possibility is to ask a friend, co-worker, librarian for a demo of
what they're using.
Whatever you decide, there would not be a monetary expense involved.
--
_ct_
Nappy-Headed Cuddle-Bitch
> And I don't know why all of the a.ri people can't simply bookmark the
> google a.r.i. site on their browsers and just click on it
Some of us simply do not wish to use Google Groups, for various reasons.
I have tried it when I've lost access to USENET via my regular ISP
(Comcast's outsourcing seems to be problematic at times) and I find it too
unwieldy.
Plus I'm not really sure I want Google collecting yet more information on my
surfing habits to resell to others.
C.C.
>
> The advantages are too numerous to detail and I don't have enough expertise
> with the various OS's and ISP's to be able to address every situation.
>
> Perhaps if you provided this group with the type of OS you're using (MS,
> Apple, Linux) and the name of your ISP (AT&T, Verizon, Cox, etc.) someone
> would be able to help you do a quick set-up on your computer. It wouldn't
> hurt to ask.
> _ct_
Okay, here goes: on weekdays I use my Apple G4 with OS X and it is
online via a "hi-speed"(hah) Verizon Online connection. My internet
browser is Safari 3.1.1.
On weekends (that's when I'm in RI) I use an old imac and recently
got a Cox Cable connection. The browser is Internet Explorer. I used
to just go to the local library there on Saturdays and use their
computer. But there's very little weekend activity on alt.r_i
anyway.
On both computers I bookmarked alt.r_i through Google Groups, so all I
have to do is click on it, on the bookmarks bar along the top of the
window.
I don't open every thread because I've heard enough about plummeting
real estate prices, corruption in the State House, and where to get
great stuffed clams (ugh) in west bay RI. But I've met some of these
nice people and like to know what they're opining about and doing.
C.C.
tom.re...@verizon.net
Again Carol, you will not see any difference once you add the new
group. Google groups will work exactly as it does now and you will do
everything the same. It is other folks who have already been
negatively affected will benefit from the change...*without any harm
to others.*
P
<tom.re...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:f8fc9fcd-1b5b-4690...@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
*********
And as mentioned, using Google groups is cumbersome compared with
your own newsreader. The speed at which posts and replies are
posted is much slower.
C.C.
>
> And as mentioned, using Google groups is cumbersome compared with
> your own newsreader. The speed at which posts and replies are
> posted is much slower.
I HEREBY SUPPORT THE FORMATION OF A NEW RHODE ISLAND NEWSGROUP. --
C.C.
Whether I read it or not.
tom.re...@verizon.net
Dats da ticket! :-)
Mark Kramer
bet...@gmail.com <bet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 24, 12:18 am, Michael Zarlenga <mzarle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> PEOPLE! Please ... yes/support or no/oppose.
>>
>> If you want to debate the specifics, please start another thread and
>> then, when you decide, return here and vote.
>
>YES! YES!! Keep us together whatever it takes.
>Betz
Please do not get the idea that simply creating a big 8 group will "keep
you together" with no action on your part.
You may find that it is infinitely harder to coerce your NSP into carrying
any new group in the big 8 than for you to simply find a free news server
and access the existing group that way. I've already seen one user mention
one free server, so I know the information on how to do it is within your
group.
You will also be hurting the people who come later, who find the
alt.rhode_island group and try to use it, without knowing that the
existing user base is no longer here to provide reasonable answers.
Mark Kramer
I'm glad I came over to read the "poll" results for myself. Support
in the name of supporting what other people want is not what I am looking
for. Support that says "I will use it, _I_ want this" is.
Anonymous Remailer
> C.C. <carol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >I HEREBY SUPPORT THE FORMATION OF A NEW RHODE ISLAND NEWSGROUP. --
> >C.C.
> >
> >Whether I read it or not.
>
> I'm glad I came over to read the "poll" results for myself. Support
> in the name of supporting what other people want is not what I am looking
> for. Support that says "I will use it, _I_ want this" is.
Silly Rhode Idiots. There they go shooting themselves in the foot again.
T
mzar...@gmail.com says...
> Ladies and gentlemen.
>
> As many of you are aware, Verizon has cut access to alt.*. AT&T and Time
> Warner have decided to do the same. Other ISPs have indicated they will
> soon follow suit.
>
> The only certain Usenet access soon will be the "Big 8."
>
> The process of petitioning for a "Big 8" group to replace
> alt.rhode_island and provide a new online home to our merry, motley
> community of Rhode Islanders and ex-Rhode Islander has begun.
>
> One of the criteria that we need to meet is support (the following is
> from news.groups.proposals):
> > Given that some folks seem to be objecting to the rationale,
> > I suggest the proponent or a supporter run a week-long
> > poll on the alt group to see how many people oppose or
> > support the proposal to create a Big-8 equivalent. Then
> > report the results here.
>
>
> SUPPORT A NEW NEWSGROUP.
>
> who might not see this that we need their feedback ASAP.
>
> We have only 1 week to show our support (or not) for the new newsgroup.
>
> Thank you.
>
That's ok, I tried to register my support and suprise, Cox (Limelight)
doesn't carry the announcement group.
I fully support a new group to replace alt.rhode_island.
P
"Anonymous Remailer" <mixm...@gpftor3.privacyfoundation.de> wrote
in message
news:5f3937e27741e1db...@gpftor3.privacyfoundation.de...
> c28...@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) wrote:
>
>> C.C. <carol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >I HEREBY SUPPORT THE FORMATION OF A NEW RHODE ISLAND
>> >C.C.
>> >
>> >Whether I read it or not.
>>
>> I'm glad I came over to read the "poll" results for myself.
>> Support
>> in the name of supporting what other people want is not what I
>> am looking
>> for. Support that says "I will use it, _I_ want this" is.
>
> Silly Rhode Idiots. There they go shooting themselves in the foot
> again.
>
Your participation is duly noted: almost nonexistent, only recent,
unimaginative, and wholly insulting adding little else.
P
"Mark Kramer" <c28...@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:g6db97$pmd$1...@pcls6.std.com...
> In article
> <5702b584-9d9d-4ed7...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> C.C. <carol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And as mentioned, using Google groups is cumbersome compared
>>> with
>>> your own newsreader. The speed at which posts and replies are
>>> posted is much slower.
>>
>>I HEREBY SUPPORT THE FORMATION OF A NEW RHODE ISLAND
>>C.C.
>>
>>Whether I read it or not.
>
> I'm glad I came over to read the "poll" results for myself.
> Support
> in the name of supporting what other people want is not what I am
> looking
> for. Support that says "I will use it, _I_ want this" is.
You should read from the original post by Mike Z, and see the speed
of response from regular posters. I'd also suggest you read the
Google description of this NG to gain an understanding of it's
topics and post history of the regulars...if they say they will
participate, they will participate.
What is unique about RI(and the participants in this group), is
that everyone seems to know everyone to a certain degree as a
result of our small geographic size. That follows wherever we end
up later; I have to(speaking personally) make a deliberate effort
*not* to bring my laptop with me when I travel for
leisure...otherwise I'd probably be checking in 5 or 6 times daily.
The fact that the votes to the affirmative lack the specifics "I
will use it, _I_ want this" is insignificant; Mike Z called for
clarity...a simple yes or no, and that's what was received. We are
all very familiar with each other, and this has already been
discussed prior to the submission of request to formulate the new
group.
You seem to be sampling one reply and projecting some sort of
reluctant consensus which(upon examination) doesn't exist.
P
"T" <nospa...@cox.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.22f41c69b...@news.east.cox.net...
But it seems despite your affirmative, you must(despite your
posting history amongst this group) state conclusively, that *You*
individually intend to participate in any new group created<S>
Laury
"Mark Kramer" <c28...@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:g6db97$pmd$1...@pcls6.std.com...
C.C. is an artist.. a real one, whose work resides in museums.
She is not an expert in IT. Nor am I, for that matter. Our understanding
of newsgroup protocols is sketchy at best. Now, if you'd like me
to explain how to clone DNA, THAT I can do. For IT matters I am
happy to rely on those within our happy little group who have such
expertise. I am not speaking for C.C. but I can see that she is trying
to understand why a change is necessary. But I think I can safely say
she wants to remain part of an intact group of alt-ri posters.
Laury
Mark Kramer
>You should read from the original post by Mike Z, and see the speed
>of response from regular posters.
I read the original post. I saw the "speed".
>if they say they will participate, they will participate.
People saying they will participate is not the problem.
>You seem to be sampling one reply and projecting some sort of
>reluctant consensus which(upon examination) doesn't exist.
Several. Read the entire discussion. When I say I read the entire
discussion, I read the entire discussion. Just like you lectured me
about when people say they will participate...
Mark Kramer
>I am not speaking for C.C. but I can see that she is trying
>to understand why a change is necessary.
And she has already said that a change, for her, is not necessary. She
has pointed out a simple solution to your NSP problem. As has at least
one other.
>But I think I can safely say
>she wants to remain part of an intact group of alt-ri posters.
The goal is not the question, it is the means that I am involved with.
I am perfectly happy to help you reach the goal. I've told you the best
way to do that. The way you've decided you must have isn't a solution that
I can support.
Michael Zarlenga
> The goal is not the question, it is the means that I am involved with.
> I am perfectly happy to help you reach the goal. I've told you the best
> way to do that. The way you've decided you must have isn't a solution that
> I can support.
Why is our solution unacceptable to you?
P
"Mark Kramer" <c28...@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
> In article <nYtik.241$wY7...@newsfe01.iad>, P <pr...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>>You should read from the original post by Mike Z, and see the
>>speed
>>of response from regular posters.
>
> I read the original post. I saw the "speed".
>
>>if they say they will participate, they will participate.
>
> People saying they will participate is not the problem.
But you said that was exactly the problem...what you said was that
people agreeing(yes or no) was not the same as saying they would
agree to participate in any new group. I pointed out that a simple
yes/no is exactly what had been called for...
>>You seem to be sampling one reply and projecting some sort of
>>reluctant consensus which(upon examination) doesn't exist.
>
> Several. Read the entire discussion. When I say I read the entire
> discussion, I read the entire discussion. Just like you lectured
> me
> about when people say they will participate...
Did so. I read 100% of what is posted here, except when discussions
become so prolonged and specific we ask an amendment to the
header..
And I didn't lecture anyone(that I know of). I simply requested you
expand your opinion beyond your post/response which was attached to
a late opinion by a reply coming 3 days after the thread began. And
you, not I, began to measure an assumed future participation based
upon(called upon, simple yes or no)responses by those you are
*completely* unfamiliar, as compared to my years-of-familiarity
with those same individuals.
It may sound pompous to say I can read their response better than
you, dismiss outright even minor complaints and argument(which
occur here all the time)...but then I'd have to dismiss my own
measure of experience(that measure being) and my own measure of
those posters personalities based on my own read and contact with,
over 12 years. My impression of this group is not similar to your
own snapshots', but albums upon albums of images.
I do however, welcome the fact you have taken the time to join our
group and observe for yourself the participants. That is worthy in
itself, and I hope it continues.
P
"Michael Zarlenga" <mzar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:DFwik.17299$jI5....@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
Gets me...especially considering our user base, volume and
consensus. They must not believe our resolve, which I guess is
understandable given the unfamiliarity of our little whole in the
wall.
Fritz Wuehler
>
> "Mark Kramer" <c28...@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
>
> > I'm glad I came over to read the "poll" results for myself. Support
> > in the name of supporting what other people want is not what I am looking
> > for. Support that says "I will use it, _I_ want this" is.
>
> C.C. is an artist.. a real one, whose work resides in museums.
> She is not an expert in IT. Nor am I, for that matter.
The problem is people not making even the smallest effort to understand
what is being explained to them repeatedly.
lcz
> Ladies and gentlemen.
>
> As many of you are aware, Verizon has cut access to alt.*. AT&T and Time
> Warner have decided to do the same. Other ISPs have indicated they will
> soon follow suit.
>
> The only certain Usenet access soon will be the "Big 8."
>
> The process of petitioning for a "Big 8" group to replace
> alt.rhode_island and provide a new online home to our merry, motley
> community of Rhode Islanders and ex-Rhode Islander has begun.
>
> One of the criteria that we need to meet is support (the following is
> from news.groups.proposals):
>
> > Given that some folks seem to be objecting to the rationale,
> > I suggest the proponent or a supporter run a week-long
> > poll on the alt group to see how many people oppose or
> > support the proposal to create a Big-8 equivalent. Then
> > report the results here.
>
> PLEASE RESPOND HERE WITHIN ONE WEEK AND INDICATE WHETHER YOU OPPOSE OR
> SUPPORT A NEW NEWSGROUP.
>
> Also, please notify via e-mail as many other regular alt.rhode_islanders
> who might not see this that we need their feedback ASAP.
>
> We have only 1 week to show our support (or not) for the new newsgroup.
>
> Thank you.
I support the idea of moving alt.rhode_island into the "Big 8" - my
vote is yes,
lcz
Steve Bonine
> The problem is people not making even the smallest effort to understand
> what is being explained to them repeatedly.
Are you talking about the participants of alt.rhode_island or the
news.groupies? <grin>
ctowers
We don't have an OS and ISP in common so I'm not able to give quick help,
sorry.
You could install Thunderbird and use Aioe, both are free and the combo will
be much better than what you're using.
Aioe does not need to be installed, just configure Thunderbird to use it.
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/
http://news.aioe.org/spip.php?rubrique4
--
_ct_
Mark Kramer
>
>"Mark Kramer" <c28...@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
>news:g6e3ve$i39$1...@pcls4.std.com...
>
>But you said that was exactly the problem...what you said was that
No, that is not what I said. I said that people making statements of
support that had nothing to do with participation, after arguing
that a new group is not necessary, are the problem.
>I pointed out that a simple
>yes/no is exactly what had been called for...
Yes, that is what the person campaigning for support asked for.
>And I didn't lecture anyone(that I know of).
You lectured me that when people say they will participate they mean they
will participate. I said nothing contrary to that.
>My impression of this group is not similar to your own snapshots',
I am not here to get an impression of this group. I am here to read the
messages of support directly, without any intermediate interpretation.
>I do however, welcome the fact you have taken the time to join our
>group and observe for yourself the participants. That is worthy in
>itself, and I hope it continues.
No, after this decision is made, I will not be here.
Mark Kramer
For all the reasons I've already explained to you.
You have a viable, working, propogated group. You have the means to
"get around" NSPs dropping alt groups at your disposal and knowledge of
how to do this within the group. Creating a new big8 group will cause
a duplication of content and split of the group. A duplicate group will
cause confusion to new users as they see two (at least) different places
for the same discussion.
Is that latter problem that makes this a problem for news as a whole. Were
you existing in a vacuum, I'd not worry so much. Further, if there were
no existing group already there for you to use, I might even say the
proposal is good and should pass.
It will be dissappointing to you when it does not reach sufficient
propogation in a short time, and you will need to do a lot more work
to get a sufficient mass of servers that propogation will not be an
issue. More work that simply changing NSPs now. The inclination to simply
go back to the old group will be strong, and we'd be left with an empty
useless big8 group. That latter problem is, once again, why I worry.
As a proponent, you are supposed to listen to comments, even if you don't
agree with them. The fact that you are asking me to repeat all of this
makes me feel you haven't been.
Michael Zarlenga
>>> The goal is not the question, it is the means that I am involved with.
>>> I am perfectly happy to help you reach the goal. I've told you the best
>>> way to do that. The way you've decided you must have isn't a solution that
>>> I can support.
>> Why is our solution unacceptable to you?
> For all the reasons I've already explained to you.
>
> You have a viable, working, propogated group. You have the means to
> "get around" NSPs dropping alt groups at your disposal and knowledge of
> how to do this within the group. Creating a new big8 group will cause
> a duplication of content and split of the group. A duplicate group will
> cause confusion to new users as they see two (at least) different places
> for the same discussion.
That's seems like *our* problem, not yours.
> Is that latter problem that makes this a problem for news as a whole. Were
> you existing in a vacuum, I'd not worry so much.
A problem for news as a whole? Are you serious?! There's already
tremendous duplication, redundancy and overlap and between alt.* and
Big-8. One more group is the straw that breaks the Big 8's back?
> It will be dissappointing to you when it does not reach sufficient
> propogation in a short time, and you will need to do a lot more work
> to get a sufficient mass of servers that propogation will not be an
> issue. More work that simply changing NSPs now. The inclination to simply
> go back to the old group will be strong, and we'd be left with an empty
> useless big8 group. That latter problem is, once again, why I worry.
You're making predictions you cannot possibly know for sure. And, again,
if this happens, isn't it *our* problem, not yours?
> As a proponent, you are supposed to listen to comments, even if you don't
> agree with them. The fact that you are asking me to repeat all of this
> makes me feel you haven't been.
I am listening, Mark.
"Why is our solution unacceptable to you?" was not a repetitive
question. You've offered many reasons for opposition, but never
explained which ones were the crucial reasons.
I'd hoped to be able to address a subset of your objections, the major
obstacles, but "For all the reasons I've already explained to you" makes
clear that every single reason - even the ones that fall under "Mark
knows what best for us" - is a showstopper.
Is there any way for me to change your mind?
Mark Kramer
How selfish is that? It is everyone's problem, including yours, when people
who want to talk about Rhode Island wind up in an unused group with nobody
to talk to. It is everyuone's problem when empty groups suck newbies into
wasted posting. "News is useless, let's go find a web page...".
>> Is that latter problem that makes this a problem for news as a whole. Were
>> you existing in a vacuum, I'd not worry so much.
>
>A problem for news as a whole? Are you serious?!
Yes.
>There's already
>tremendous duplication, redundancy and overlap and between alt.* and
>Big-8.
The old "bad things exist, so more bad things are ok" argument.
Unpersuasive. I cannot stop alt from creating dups; I can work to
prevent the big 8 from doing it.
>You're making predictions you cannot possibly know for sure. And, again,
>if this happens, isn't it *our* problem, not yours?
That's why they are called predictions and not facts. Yes, it will be,
for the most part, your problem. Should I not care about YOUR problem?
You want me to care about YOUR problem with getting news through one NSP,
but not the problem you create for yourself (and everyone else) with your
chosen solution?
>> As a proponent, you are supposed to listen to comments, even if you don't
>> agree with them. The fact that you are asking me to repeat all of this
>> makes me feel you haven't been.
>
>I am listening, Mark.
Had you been listening, you'd not be asking me to repeat the same things
over and over again.
>"Why is our solution unacceptable to you?" was not a repetitive
>question.
It is the first time you used the word "unacceptable", yes. But the
reasons have been repeated to you by more than one person. I've told
you all of this before. Others have told you.
>Is there any way for me to change your mind?
At this point, it is unlikely. But please, don't let anything I say stop
you from whatever you want to do. Far be it from me to say "cannot". I can
only make suggestions based on almost two decades of experience with a large
number of newsgroups.
Mark Kramer
Mark Kramer <c28...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>How selfish is that?
Please strike that sentence.
Steve Bonine
> In article <1ZRik.15503$xZ.1...@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> Michael Zarlenga <mzar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mark Kramer wrote:
>> That's seems like *our* problem, not yours.
>
> How selfish is that? It is everyone's problem, including yours, when people
> who want to talk about Rhode Island wind up in an unused group with nobody
> to talk to. It is everyuone's problem when empty groups suck newbies into
> wasted posting. "News is useless, let's go find a web page...".
This issue has been addressed by a plan to post a short article in
alt.rhode_island explaining to people who find it that the discussion
has moved.
>>> Is that latter problem that makes this a problem for news as a whole. Were
>>> you existing in a vacuum, I'd not worry so much.
>> A problem for news as a whole? Are you serious?!
>
> Yes.
>
>> There's already
>> tremendous duplication, redundancy and overlap and between alt.* and
>> Big-8.
>
> The old "bad things exist, so more bad things are ok" argument.
> Unpersuasive. I cannot stop alt from creating dups; I can work to
> prevent the big 8 from doing it.
If you're really concerned about redundancy, overlap, and dead
newsgroups, how about doing something about it? You're on the Big-8
board, but I've seen no action on this issue from the Board. There was
an RFD passed in October of 2007 to address this issue, but there has
been no action. It is difficult for me to take your complaint seriously
when you're in a position to address the issue, but have done nothing.
>> You're making predictions you cannot possibly know for sure. And, again,
>> if this happens, isn't it *our* problem, not yours?
>
> That's why they are called predictions and not facts. Yes, it will be,
> for the most part, your problem. Should I not care about YOUR problem?
> You want me to care about YOUR problem with getting news through one NSP,
> but not the problem you create for yourself (and everyone else) with your
> chosen solution?
You have expressed your opinion. The people affected have read what you
and others have written. Perhaps you've convinced alt.rhode_island
participants that the preferred solution is to find a new NSP, but I've
seen no indication of that.
As a member of the Big-8 Board, you are in a position to express your
opinion by voting against the proposed group. That's fine; that's why
you're there. Your objections are reasonable, but the people who are
requesting the group also have reasonable points on their side.
>>> As a proponent, you are supposed to listen to comments, even if you don't
>>> agree with them. The fact that you are asking me to repeat all of this
>>> makes me feel you haven't been.
>> I am listening, Mark.
>
> Had you been listening, you'd not be asking me to repeat the same things
> over and over again.
As a member of the Big-8 Board, you're supposed to listen too. The
proponents have acknowledged your objections and reacted to them. You
have not acknowledged the fact that changing news services is simply not
going to happen for some of the members of the group. You keep
preaching to them that this is the correct solution to the problem. In
your opinion, it is; in the opinion of many of the participants in
alt.rhode_island it's not.
>> "Why is our solution unacceptable to you?" was not a repetitive
>> question.
>
> It is the first time you used the word "unacceptable", yes. But the
> reasons have been repeated to you by more than one person. I've told
> you all of this before. Others have told you.
Yes, Usenet is the place where people strike the road with blunt
instruments at the location where once there was a horse.
>> Is there any way for me to change your mind?
>
> At this point, it is unlikely. But please, don't let anything I say stop
> you from whatever you want to do. Far be it from me to say "cannot". I can
> only make suggestions based on almost two decades of experience with a large
> number of newsgroups.
Your experience does not make your opinions into facts. It would seem
that the participants in alt.rhode_island have been fully informed
relative to the advantages and disadvantages of their proposal for a
newsgroup in the Big-8. I cannot imagine that any new information will
enter the debate at this point. This is the time to move forward based
on the consensus of participants in the group -- either abandon the idea
of a Big-8 group, or ask the Board to vote by submitting the LCC.
If nothing is done, some fraction of the participants in
alt.rhode_island won't participate because their current method of
accessing the group is gone. (Yes, there are other ways that they could
access the group, but that doesn't change the fact that some folks will
be lost.) If a group is created in the Big-8, some fraction of the
participants won't participate because their Usenet provider doesn't
carry the new group. What are the number of people affected in the two
scenarios? We can opine on that, but the only thing we know for sure is
that both numbers will be greater than zero.
P
> I am not here to get an impression of this group. I am here to read the
> messages of support directly, without any intermediate interpretation.
>
>>I do however, welcome the fact you have taken the time to join our
>>group and observe for yourself the participants. That is worthy in
>>itself, and I hope it continues.
>
> No, after this decision is made, I will not be here.
Whatta shame...I shall mourn your loss with chants remembering your name, 3
days of sweats. and fire offerings..
pla
> The problem is people not making even the smallest effort
> to understand what is being explained to them repeatedly.
Those of us most vocal in this matter *already* understand
the issue of propagation. We have chosen the route of going
B8 because, despite the up-front difficulties, we see it as
more likely to have a future than the "alt" hierarchy.
Yes, most ISP jumping on this bandwagon do so because they'd
love any excuse to drop USENET support entirely. That
doesn't, however, remove the underlying witch-hunt the
ISPs have used as their excuse. And after the easy prey,
do you really think Cuomo won't extend the hunt to the
dedicated NSPs, and then to every two-bit open NNTP server
on the planet?
I find it disturbing that we came to the B8 in good faith,
only to receive a barrage of rejection from people claiming
they have no power or relevance in the matter.
~Z~
> Whatta shame...I shall mourn your loss with chants remembering your
> name, 3 days of sweats. and fire offerings..
Careful there, "Sparky," as I recall ... the last time you did the "fire
offerings" ritual, the Fire Department had to respond.
:)
Nappy-Headed Cuddle-Bitch
> And after the easy prey,
> do you really think Cuomo won't extend the hunt to the
> dedicated NSPs, and then to every two-bit open NNTP server
> on the planet?
Having grown up and worked in law enforcement for a while, I'll tell you
exactly what will happen:
Those people who want their kiddie porn *will* take the necessary steps to
migrate to a different NSP once their local ISP cuts off newsgroup access as
part of the "services" the ISP provides.
Once the Cuomos of the world see that their "ban" didn't work (having zero
ability to comprehend the technical issues, and underlying human nature)
they will seek to expand the ban by having ISPs block all port 119 traffic.
Of course, ISPs will sugar coat this by claiming they are doing it to
"improve network performance" much the same way Comcast currently has their
nuts in a vice at the FCC by purposely injecting RST packets into the data
stream.
This may take some time... but it will eventually happen.
Adam H. Kerman
You don't find people who blow sunshine up your ass even more disturbing?
Aratzio
<a...@chinet.com> bloviated:
It tickles in a pleasurable way.
Charles
<myha...@stone.delete.tmok.remove.com> wrote:
> And after the easy prey, do you really think Cuomo won't extend the
> hunt to the dedicated NSPs, and then to every two-bit open NNTP
> server on the planet?
Those dedicated NSP's like Giganews would go out of business if they
dropped alt. and the binary groups. They are not making their profit
from the text group subscribers, they are making their revenue from
folks who download from the binary groups.
--
Charles
Brian Mailman
>
> I find it disturbing that we came to the B8 in good faith,
> only to receive a barrage of rejection from people claiming
> they have no power or relevance in the matter.
Well, there is a so-called moderated group you can discuss your plight
in, if you wish sunshine blown up your ass.
B/
Brian Mailman
>>
>> I find it disturbing that we came to the B8 in good faith, only to
>> receive a barrage of rejection from people claiming they have no
>> power or relevance in the matter.
>
> You don't find people who blow sunshine up your ass even more
> disturbing?
Day-yam. I hadn't seen you'd beaten me to it.
B/
Mark Kramer
Steve Bonine <s...@pobox.com> wrote:
>Mark Kramer wrote:
>> In article <1ZRik.15503$xZ.1...@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com>,
>alt.rhode_island explaining to people who find it that the discussion
>has moved.
Yes, people who are asking for a big 8 group because they cannot access
the alt group are going to post to the alt group.
>If you're really concerned about redundancy, overlap, and dead
>newsgroups, how about doing something about it?
I am. I can't eliminate existing ones, but I can help prevent more
of them.
>> Had you been listening, you'd not be asking me to repeat the same things
>> over and over again.
>
>As a member of the Big-8 Board, you're supposed to listen too.
I do, Steve. I'm not the one asking people why they want to do this over
and over again as if they never said it the first time. I know what
their reasons are and I've discussed them. Do not lecture me on my
responsibility to listen. You are just being insulting when you do that.
>The
>proponents have acknowledged your objections and reacted to them.
The proponent has kept asking me to repeat the reasons why I object to the
proposal. That is not "reacting". He "reacted" so well to the discussion
about the correct level of hierarchy and name, didn't he? He didn't even
listen to the strong suggestion to use a hyphen instead of an underline,
did he?
>You
>have not acknowledged the fact that changing news services is simply not
>going to happen for some of the members of the group.
It may be a "fact", but it is a fact only by their own choice.
>You keep
>preaching to them that this is the correct solution to the problem.
Keep your insulting tone to the moderation rejection messages you author
under the name "the moderator", please.
>Your experience does not make your opinions into facts.
Nor does it makes yours into facts.
>It would seem
>that the participants in alt.rhode_island have been fully informed
>relative to the advantages and disadvantages of their proposal for a
>newsgroup in the Big-8.
It would seem otherwise to me. When someone posts at length about how
they have a long term contract with their ISP and cannot afford the
termination fees just to find a free newsserver, I know they have not
been fully informed.
>I cannot imagine that any new information will
>enter the debate at this point.
So now you change gears to jumping down my throat. Typical.
>If nothing is done, some fraction of the participants in
>alt.rhode_island won't participate because their current method of
>accessing the group is gone.
And their choice to discontinue participation is their choice. Choices
have consequences. My job is to see that the consequences of MY choices
have little or no negative impact on Usenet. If their choices have
negative consequences for them, well, that's part of life. The fact is,
anyone who says "I can no longer access alt.rhode_island because Verizon
dropped alt" is simply incorrect.
>If a group is created in the Big-8, some fraction of the
>participants won't participate because their Usenet provider doesn't
>carry the new group.
Oh, what do we do, oh wise and masterful Sage, when we learn that the
same servers that have dropped alt.rhode_island have chosen not to carry
the big8 version of the same group?
>that both numbers will be greater than zero.
By the choice of the user.
Aratzio
<bmai...@sfo.invalid> bloviated:
A Conspiracy of Figgy Sunshiners.
Thomas Lee
<myha...@stone.delete.tmok.remove.com> writes
>I find it disturbing that we came to the B8 in good faith,
>only to receive a barrage of rejection from people claiming
>they have no power or relevance in the matter.
Ignore the 'antiboard'. Their agenda is to do whatever they can to,
well, be anti-B8MB. I'm only one member of the board, but am prepared to
help if I can. If there are enough users who want a big-8 group, and
that appears to be true, then let's do it.
--
Thomas Lee
(t...@psp.co.uk)
Adam H. Kerman
We need to log straight lines around here so someone calls the punch
line first.
Adam H. Kerman
>>I find it disturbing that we came to the B8 in good faith,
>>only to receive a barrage of rejection from people claiming
>>they have no power or relevance in the matter.
>Ignore the 'antiboard'. Their agenda is to do whatever they can to,
>well, be anti-B8MB. I'm only one member of the board, but am prepared to
>help if I can. If there are enough users who want a big-8 group, and
>that appears to be true, then let's do it.
Shouldn't you see someone about that paranoia?
Thank you Thomas "I'm going to do the wrong thing because someone
criticized me" Lee
O
Mailman <bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote:
My, how hip you are to be so negative! I didn't know condescension and
obnoxiousness could be this cool!
-Owen
Adam H. Kerman
>>>I find it disturbing that we came to the B8 in good faith,
>>>only to receive a barrage of rejection from people claiming
>>>they have no power or relevance in the matter.
>>Well, there is a so-called moderated group you can discuss your plight
>>in, if you wish sunshine blown up your ass.
>My, how hip you are to be so negative! I didn't know condescension and
>obnoxiousness could be this cool!
I believe Brian told pla where to find what he was seeking, since he
won't find it in news.groups. Looks like a helpful followup to me.
Aratzio
<a...@chinet.com> bloviated:
>O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
As near as I can tell, from the excuses made why they cannot use an
NSP, the Rhode Island posters would be required to be the stupidest
people on usenet.
Either that or the people claiming that it is too difficult to use an
NSP are wrong and are just being condescending dickweeds with respect
to the general ISP users in Rhode Island.
I personally think they are smart enough to be able to follow the
links below, sign up for a really cheap, non-expiring block account
and quite possibly reconfigure their newsreaders all in about 15
minutes.
www.usenet-news.net
www.news.astraweb.com
www.octanews.com
Those with troubles, come on back and I'll even point you to a news
group that will gleefully assist you in configuring your newsreader to
access your shiny new NSP block account.
Then you don't have to move, you don't have to play jump the hoops,
you don't have o wait for the group to propagate.
You just stay where you are, doing what you are doing now, discussing
what you are discussing now. No interuptions, just a quick sign-up,
$2-$10 bucks, quick change in the news reader set-up and back in
business.
Oh, did I mention that things like your IP address won't be there in
the headers for hackers and spammers to whack on?
Art Deco
Note that he chose to not include his usual "I'm not speaking for the
board" disclaimer, nor any recommendation to run away to the moderated
club house.
--
The famous .sig file quote that Wee Davie Tholen whines about at every
opportunity:
"Substantiation that you regard yourself as a God to be worhsipped [sic]
should be your concern, Deco."
-- David Tholen
Art Deco
Not to mention that whatever jurisdiction Cuomo might have ends at the
borders of the United States.
~Z~
> As near as I can tell, from the excuses made why they cannot use an
> NSP, the Rhode Island posters would be required to be the stupidest
> people on usenet.
That's not true.
We have acknowledged, several times now, that alternate NSPs are a
possible solution should this RFD be rejected.
But that doesn't address the problems existing today with Verizon:
namely, any Verizon customers who use their standard Verison NSP will
never even know alt.rhode_island exists.
Verizon is the 4th largest US ISP, with almost 10 million subscribers.
Aratzio
<nos...@nospam.com> got double secret probation for writing:
How nice, and of that 10,000,000 how many even know that usenet
exists?
Last time I heard it was under 5%. Which leaves 200,000.
So of those 200,000 Verizon users that even have heard of usenet, how
many actually post TO usenet? 5%? 10%? 20%? Say it is 10%. That leaves
20,000 people (1% of verizon users).
If that small percentage, how many would be posting to
alt.rhode_island?
You argument is that there is some very small number of people who
might know usenet exists, might eventually post to usenet and even of
less likelyhood might be interested in alt.rhode_island.
So on the slight possibility that some incredibly rare person comes
along that would fill all of the above requirement you feel it is
necessary to move all of the users from alt to a big-8 group.
Now we have the inverse scenario, you get your b8 group, some new user
on a server that does not auto-add b8 groups searches for "Rhode" and
comes up with alt.rhode_island. Subs the aforementioned newsgroup and
finds it empty with maybe a monthly message to join your shiny new b8
group. Except it is not on this imaginary users news server because it
was never auto-added.
Is that not exactly the same scenario you are trying to prevent?
--
A Number 1, Grade A, Prime USDA 'Ratz
Accept No Substitute
Fritz Wuehler
Cuomo doesn't care about who he puts out of business as long as he gets
attention for doing something to protect the children.
P
"~Z~" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:pXkjk.9076$L_....@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
That was wifey's closet, not my burnt offerings. See what years of shoddy
DIY'er wiring and a woman's large collection of clothes can do to disrupt
the kingdom<G>?
P
"Brian Mailman" <bmai...@sfo.invalid> wrote in message
news:NLOdnbSaDME3mBPV...@supernews.com...
B8 has a group for sunshine inflation peri-rectally? I think it unusual
you'd even know this...
pla
> the Rhode Island posters would be required to be the
> stupidest people on usenet.
And you claim *we* don't get it?
Get a grip, you arrogant pricks (who, thanks to Thomas, we
now understand DON'T speak for the B8MB, but rather as sort
of habitual trolls of the same groups they frequent). We
understand our situation just fine - YOU, apparently, can't
accept the fact that Cuomo effectively gave the alt hierarchy
a death sentence (if only by way of an excuse for the major
ISPs to drop something they've resented carrying for quite a
while now).
If you want to call us rats fleeing a ship, fine. But stupid?
*We* don't intend to whistle while the bridge burns.
> Those with troubles, come on back and I'll even point you to
> a news group that will gleefully assist you in configuring
> your newsreader to access your shiny new NSP block account.
We have at least four users of alt.RI who could easily
set up their own NNTP *server* and carry whatever groups
we want, whether alt or B8 or merely local. That solution
(politically, the easiest possible) *also* wouldn't solve
the underlying problem, however. Until you grasp *that*
problem, berating us for our stupidity won't accomplish
much.
The idea here goes back to Eric S's concerns... Although
we have a cohesive core group, we DON'T just want a private
little playground for our clique. We want a place where
anyone from (or merely interested in) RI can come to chat.
From anywhere in the world (yet another B8 requirement we
satisfy), INCLUDING (ironically enough, now that NO RI
broadband providers carry the group) Rhode Island itself.
> Oh, did I mention that things like your IP address won't be
> there in the headers for hackers and spammers to whack on?
Oh, did you notice we already have one of the lowest-spammed
active unmoderated groups in all of USENET? But thanks for
the advice.
- pla
pla
> Not to mention that whatever jurisdiction Cuomo might
> have ends at the borders of the United States.
Strangely enough, most participants in alt.RI reside...
Care to take a guess?
INSIDE the borders of the United States.
Thanks for playing, though.
- pla
pla
> How nice, and of that 10,000,000 how many even know
> that usenet exists? Last time I heard it was under 5%.
And yet again, you counter with proof of you own irrelevance.
Strange strategy...
To hear you describe it, I can only presume I must have
hallucinated all of you and this entire topic, since no
NSP admins ever add any new groups; no one reads USENET
anyway; and since ISPs don't count as NSPs and we all
seem like idiots, we couldn't possibly have done something
so complex as subscribe to NG/NGP and submit an RFD.
Taking that as the case, I have decided to rename you
Fuzzy Wumpkin, the magical pink pony from over the
rainbow. Please change your handle to that as soon as
possible, as I would feel bad if I stop imagining you
and you consequently cease to exist.
- pla
Aratzio
<myha...@stone.delete.tmok.remove.com> bloviated:
> Aratzio wrote:
> > the Rhode Island posters would be required to be the
> > stupidest people on usenet.
>
>And you claim *we* don't get it?
Nice contextual snip. Would you like the whole statement where I am
addressing a single person and their claims or would you like to stick
to yours that has no connection to my writing?
>
>Get a grip, you arrogant pricks (who, thanks to Thomas, we
>now understand DON'T speak for the B8MB, but rather as sort
>of habitual trolls of the same groups they frequent).
Yes, listen to the guy that was run out of the UK hierarchy configging
for being a gormless fuckwit. As long as he panders to you and
promises to *help* you in your quixotic desire to reinvent the wheel
you are just the happy little clam.
> We
>understand our situation just fine - YOU, apparently, can't
>accept the fact that Cuomo effectively gave the alt hierarchy
>a death sentence (if only by way of an excuse for the major
>ISPs to drop something they've resented carrying for quite a
>while now).
So you do not get it. That Cuomo only gave some ISPs the rationale to
drop binary usenet. Alt is not going anywhere, regardless how many
times you make the claim. Chicken Little was just as wrong. But don't
let logic get in the way of your hysterical whining.
Using your logic, since there are ISP completely dropping usenet, that
means that ALL of usenet will be going away, right? Or are you just
going to cherry pick your data points and claim that your logic is
irrefutable?
>
>If you want to call us rats fleeing a ship, fine. But stupid?
>*We* don't intend to whistle while the bridge burns.
:As near as I can tell, from the excuses made why they cannot use an
:NSP, the Rhode Island posters would be required to be the stupidest
:people on usenet.
See how a little context works? That your claim I called you stupid
is, well, err, stupid. However, in your case I may have to alter that
statement to include "while some of the rhode island posters are
hysterical whiners, most are not stupid"
>
>
>
> > Those with troubles, come on back and I'll even point you to
> > a news group that will gleefully assist you in configuring
> > your newsreader to access your shiny new NSP block account.
>
>We have at least four users of alt.RI who could easily
>set up their own NNTP *server* and carry whatever groups
>we want, whether alt or B8 or merely local. That solution
>(politically, the easiest possible) *also* wouldn't solve
>the underlying problem, however. Until you grasp *that*
>problem, berating us for our stupidity won't accomplish
>much.
So what if someone can set up a server. What does that have to do with
setting up a newsreader to access an NSP that will continue to provide
access to alt news groups? The NSP are not going away, no matter how
hysterical you get.
>
>The idea here goes back to Eric S's concerns... Although
>we have a cohesive core group, we DON'T just want a private
>little playground for our clique.
And that non sequitur has what to do with signing up with an NSP?
> We want a place where
>anyone from (or merely interested in) RI can come to chat.
> From anywhere in the world (yet another B8 requirement we
>satisfy), INCLUDING (ironically enough, now that NO RI
>broadband providers carry the group) Rhode Island itself.
What of those users that have completely lost usenet? Not just alt?
Will they be completely cut off? Or will they be signing up with NSP
that will continue to carry alt?
>
>
>
> > Oh, did I mention that things like your IP address won't be
> > there in the headers for hackers and spammers to whack on?
>
>Oh, did you notice we already have one of the lowest-spammed
>active unmoderated groups in all of USENET? But thanks for
>the advice.
>
Please do explain how the IP address for your access device is
connected to the level of spam in a newsgroup.
Aratzio
<myha...@stone.delete.tmok.remove.com> bloviated:
> Art Deco wrote:
Yes, folks it may be that there are Rhode Island posters that have
less clue than Richard Bullis.
What if the SERVER carrying alt.rhode_island is in Canada? Will your
ISP be blocking your access to the server because they have dropped
their news server?
pla
> What if the SERVER carrying alt.rhode_island is in Canada?
Aha! I FINALLY get it!
*You* have no technical clue of how USENET message
propagation actually works!
And all this time, I thought perhaps I really *didn't* get
some subtlety of your arguemnt (I'll readily admit I don't
have the best sense of "playing the game" politics).
Server? Newsgroups don't *HAVE* any concept of a "home"
server. Each and every server exists as nothing more than
a cache for the whole. If I run an NNTP server on my home
PC, I can "carry" alt.RI just as meaningfully as Verizon,
or a server in Canada, or GigaNews, or the *actual* "home"
server of alt.RI (which no longer exists as such), IDS.
- pla
Aratzio
<myha...@stone.delete.tmok.remove.com> bloviated:
> Aratzio wrote:
> > How nice, and of that 10,000,000 how many even know
> > that usenet exists? Last time I heard it was under 5%.
>
>And yet again, you counter with proof of you own irrelevance.
Do explain how facts are irrelevant? Explain how determination of
possible usage is a bad thing in the protocol of creating newsgroups.
>
>Strange strategy...
Yes, I am sure that facts and evidence would seem strange, to you.
>
>To hear you describe it, I can only presume I must have
>hallucinated all of you and this entire topic,
Pretty much, given things like somehow connecting your IP address to
spam in a newsgroup and the belief that a NY AG has the power to
control NSP and ISP around the world so that people from Rhode Island
won't be able to access ALT.
>since no NSP admins ever add any new groups;
Nice hallucination.
Hint: Some do not AUTO-ADD, as was written.
>no one reads USENET anyway;
Nice hallucination.
Small numbers of people do not equate to none, hysterical nancy.
>and since ISPs don't count as NSPs
*BOGGLE*
Changing from ISP news server access to NSP news server access is now
"ISPs don't count as NSPs".
Try to have your reading make sense, please.
>and we all seem like idiots,
Don't know about the rest of the Rhode Islanders, but so far you don't
just *seem* to be like an idiot.
>we couldn't possibly have done something
>so complex as subscribe to NG/NGP and submit an RFD.
Nice hysteria.
Here is the clue, there are 25 people from ALL of usenet posting to
alt.rhode_island. Extrapolate from there, cupcake.
>
>Taking that as the case, I have decided to rename you
>Fuzzy Wumpkin, the magical pink pony from over the
>rainbow. Please change your handle to that as soon as
>possible, as I would feel bad if I stop imagining you
>and you consequently cease to exist.
Do non sequiturs please you and make you feel like you have
accomplished something? That your arguments based solely upon your
ignorance and hysteria are in someway valid because you have imagined
the worst and you know that there is worse to come?