Thats: McVay And His Nizkor Hate Site
C.Nay
OBC) wrote:
>In article <3A25A673...@nizkor.org>,
>Steven Mock <sm...@nizkor.org> wrote:
>>tom moran wrote:
>>
>>> No bodies, no Holocaust.
>>
>>I guess this is what they've been reduced to, now that we've
>>documented the holes.
>
>Alas, Mr. Tregenza and his archeological team have done a pretty
>thorough job with the bodies, too.
>
>+http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aktion.reinhard/belzec
>/Archeological_Report
The first thing the reader finds at this site is such unsubstantiated
assertions such as:
"A comparison of Figs. 7 and 8 confirm that during its first
phase Belzec was a temporary, experimental camp where
the procedures and logistics of mass extermination by gas
and the burial of corpses were tried and tested"
Considering there is absolutely no evidence that 'gas-chambers'
even existed it gives one pause when the author of that report
makes such an assertion. It tells the reader right away that the
report is biased at best and at worst, well, ...
McVay, I try to avoid hate sites such as yours but a piece of
advice - it takes away from your credibility when you attack
people personally and professionally on a site that you tout
as a 'holocau$t(tm)' information site.
HTH
- --
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Eugene Holman
> On 30 Nov 2000 01:31:23 GMT, kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay,
> OBC) wrote:
>
>
> The first thing the reader finds at this site is such unsubstantiated
> assertions such as:
>
> "A comparison of Figs. 7 and 8 confirm that during its first
> phase Belzec was a temporary, experimental camp where
> the procedures and logistics of mass extermination by gas
> and the burial of corpses were tried and tested"
>
> Considering there is absolutely no evidence that 'gas-chambers'
> even existed it gives one pause when the author of that report
> makes such an assertion. It tells the reader right away that the
> report is biased at best and at worst, well, ...
There is abundant historical evidence that Belzec was an extermination
camp within the Operation Reinhard network, just as there is that people
trained in the use of poison gas for mass killings, such as Christian
Wirth, the
inspector of the "Operation Reinhard" death camps (Treblinka,
Belzec, and Sobibor), contributed their expertise to make the facility
more functional and efficient. An estimated 600,000 people were killed at
Belzec, and mass graves containing the remains of many of them have been
located.
If there is "absolutely no evidence that 'gas-chambers' even existed", how
does one explain:
1. the fact that gassing expert Christian Wirth was involved with the camp
in a supervisory capacity,
2. that both the few surviving inmates and camp personnel not only testify
that Belzec had gas chambers, but that gassing was the sole function of
the camp,
3. how those thousands of cubic meters of human remains in the graves just
unearthed were produced.
4. why Adolf Eichmann, after having visited Belzec, wrote:
...at the turn of the year 1941/42, the chief of the
Security Police and SD Heydrich told me ... "I come from
the Reichsfuhrer; the Fuhrer has now ordered the physical
extermination of the Jews." He informed me further that
the Reichsfuhrer had instructed Globocnik, the SS and
Police Leader of Lublin, to use the Soviet antitank ditches
for the mass annihilation of the Jews. I myself should
travel there and submit to him a report about the
implementation of the operation.... I traveled in the
direction of Lublin; I don't know what the place is called.
A Hauptsturmfuhrer accompanied me. I met there a Hauptmann
of the Order Police [Wirth]. I expressed astonishment that
the small house, completely secluded, was built, and he
told me: "Here the Jews are being gassed now."
Source: "Ich, Adolf Eichmann, Ein Historischer Zeugenbericht" Leoni am
Starnberger See, 1980, pp. 178-179.
To (1): Evidence about top Nazis, their background, trainign, and careers
tells us that Wirth was involved in the Tiergarten 4 euthanasia program,
that he learned mass gassing techniques there, and that we was involved
with planning and management of all four of the dedicated death camps:
Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor, and Treblinka.
To (2): Evidence in the form of depositions at trials provides us with
evidence such as the following:
[Beginning in June, 1942] ...
"The old wooden building with its three gas chambers was dismantled,
and on the same site a bigger, more solid building was erected. The
new building was 24 meters long and 10 meters wide. It had six gas
chambers, each of them 4 x 8 meters. (According to other sources, the
size of the new gas chambers was 4 x 5 meters each.) Toward the middle
of July, the new gas chambers were operational." <1>
"Rudolf Reder, one of the two survivors of Belzec described the gas
chambers:
The building was low, long and wide. It was of grey concrete,
had a flat roof covered with pap, and above it a net covered
with green branches. Three steps without railings, 1 meter
wide, led into the building. In front of the building was a
big flower pot with colorful flowers and a clearly written
sign reading: 'Bade und Inhalationstraume' [Bath and
Inhalation Rooms]. The steps led to a dark, long, and empty
corridor, 1.5 meters wide. On the right and left of the
corridor were doors to the gas chambers. These were wooden
doors, 1 meter wide.... The corridor and the chambers were
lower than ordinary rooms, no higher than 2 meters. On the
opposite wall of each chamber was a removable door, 2 meters
wide, from which the gassed bodies were thrown out. Outside
the building was a shed, 2 x 2 meters, where the engine for
the gas was installed. The chambers were 1.5 meters above
ground level." <2>
<1> Yad Vashem Archives, TR-10/583, p. 1; Yad Vashem Archives,
TR-10/517, p.34
<2> YVA TR-10/517 (Belzec-Oberhauser), Band 8, p. 1514
Excerpted from....----------------------------------------------
BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death Camps
Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987. ISBN 0-253-3429-7
----------------------------------------------------------------
To (3) The mass graves that have been discovered serve as their own kind
of evidence:
I have recently returned from Belzec where I was part of an archaelogical
team led by Professor Mieczslaw Gora of the Torun University, Warsaw. We
carried out an extensive survey of the camp area drilling over 1700
bore-holes and examining soil samples to a depth of 6m. 33 mass graves
were found of various dimensions, the largest measuring 70m x 20m x 6m
deep. In the south east part of the camp five mass graves were
found, the largest measuring 36m x 18m x 6m deep. Two of the graves
contained unburnt, naked human corpses below a layer of water at 3-4m
below ground.
At varying depths was found burnt human ash, burnt wood, crushed pieces of
bone etc. At the extrermity of drilling in grave marked No,1, there were
several c.m. of burnt human fat. Three graves contained a mixture of ash,
carbonised wood and crushed bone. Near to the East boundary fence
a grave measuring 5m x 5m x 2m deep was located, spent and live rounds
of German and Russian ammunition was found. This may have been the
site of the `lazerat` (bogus Red Cross location) where the old, and
sick were taken for execution. With metal detectors and
excavations over 600 items of property were found and logged.
To (4): What purpose would Eichmann have served by writing information
about Belzec which is not only blatantly false, but which also
corroborates with information about Belzec derived from other sources, in
his personal papers?
You have no basis whatsoever to claim that there is "absolutely no
evidence that 'gas-chambers' even existed". Your problem is that you do
not want to accept the types of evidence historians normally use to
establish the factuality of an event or claim. That's your problem and
your choice, but it does not justify your claim of an absolute lack of
evidence.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
stev...@my-deja.com
C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2000 01:31:23 GMT, kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay,
> OBC) wrote:
>
> >Steven Mock <sm...@nizkor.org> wrote:
> >>tom moran wrote:
> >>
> >>> No bodies, no Holocaust.
> >>
> >>I guess this is what they've been reduced to, now that we've
> >>documented the holes.
> >
> >Alas, Mr. Tregenza and his archeological team have done a pretty
> >thorough job with the bodies, too.
> >
> >+http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aktion.reinhard/belzec
> >/Archeological_Report
>
> assertions such as:
>
> "A comparison of Figs. 7 and 8 confirm that during its first
> phase Belzec was a temporary, experimental camp where
> the procedures and logistics of mass extermination by gas
> and the burial of corpses were tried and tested"
>
> Considering there is absolutely no evidence that 'gas-chambers'
> even existed
What were you saying about "unsubstantiated assertions", Cheryl?
The fact that you reject the evidence we post proving the existence of
gas chambers, on the grounds that there is no evidence of gas chambers,
is all anyone needs to know about revisionist methodology.
Laughable, really.
> McVay, I try to avoid hate sites such as yours but a piece of
> advice - it takes away from your credibility when you attack
> people personally and professionally on a site that you tout
> as a 'holocau$t(tm)' information site.
All he did was post an URL to a report providing the very sort of
forensic evidence that revisionists always seem to be clamouring for.
The fact that you respond with off-topic personal attacks is all anyone
needs to know about revisionist tactics.
Steven Mock
C.Nay
Correction: Credible evidence.
Happy now?
>Laughable, really.
Indeed. Delousing chambers do not a 'holocau$t(tm)' make.
Unless some holohoax "scholar" constructed an 'authentic'
"gas-chamber" and I missed it. Or have you had one stashed
all these years waiting for just the right moment to spring
it on the world?
C.Nay
Holman) wrote:
>C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay, OBC) wrote:
>>
>>
>> The first thing the reader finds at this site is such
>> unsubstantiated assertions such as:
>>
>> "A comparison of Figs. 7 and 8 confirm that during
>> its first phase Belzec was a temporary, experimental
>> camp where the procedures and logistics of mass
>> extermination by gas and the burial of corpses were
>> tried and tested"
>>
>>Considering there is absolutely no evidence that
>>'gas-chambers' even existed it gives one pause
>>when the author of that report makes such an
>>assertion. It tells the reader right away that the
>>report is biased at best and at worst, well, ...
>
>There is abundant historical evidence that Belzec
>was an extermination camp within the Operation
>Reinhard network, just as there is that people
>trained in the use of poison gas for mass killings,
So you agree there is no evidence of "gas chambers"
used to murder vast numbers of jews. Thanks.
[ hundreds of lines admitting there is no evidence to
support the existence of "gas chambers" but Eugene
pleading for people to believe it anyway shitecanned ]
Eugene, is there some special reason that you post a few
hundred lines to say "no, there is no evidence to support
the existence of 'gas-chambers?'"
No wonder there is a shortage of bandwidth these days.
- --
Jeffrey G. Brown
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:14:45 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
> Holman) wrote:
> >C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >>kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay, OBC) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> The first thing the reader finds at this site is such
> >> unsubstantiated assertions such as:
> >>
> >> "A comparison of Figs. 7 and 8 confirm that during
> >> its first phase Belzec was a temporary, experimental
> >> camp where the procedures and logistics of mass
> >> extermination by gas and the burial of corpses were
> >> tried and tested"
> >>
> >>Considering there is absolutely no evidence that
> >>'gas-chambers' even existed it gives one pause
> >>when the author of that report makes such an
> >>assertion. It tells the reader right away that the
> >>report is biased at best and at worst, well, ...
> >
> >There is abundant historical evidence that Belzec
> >was an extermination camp within the Operation
> >Reinhard network, just as there is that people
> >trained in the use of poison gas for mass killings,
>
> So you agree there is no evidence of "gas chambers"
> used to murder vast numbers of jews. Thanks.
'C.Nay' is lying. Mr. Holman has made no such statement.
> [ hundreds of lines admitting there is no evidence to
> support the existence of "gas chambers" but Eugene
> pleading for people to believe it anyway shitecanned ]
'C.Nay' is lying. Mr. Holman has made no such admission. Here is what 'C.Nay'
snipped and lied about:
--- begin Mr. Holman's material ---
Source:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aktion.reinhard/belzec/ftp.py?camps/aktion.re
inhard/belzec//archaelogical-dig-description
--- end Mr. Holman's material ---
> Eugene, is there some special reason that you post a few
> hundred lines to say "no, there is no evidence to support
> the existence of 'gas-chambers?'"
'C.Nay' is lying. Mr. Holman has made no such statement.
> No wonder there is a shortage of bandwidth these days.
'C.Nay' is unable to deal honestly with the facts about the Holocuast. It
therefore chooses to lie about what others have said.
JGB
================================================================== =====
Jeffrey G. Brown jg_b...@my-deja.com
For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
Jeffrey G. Brown
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:19:35 GMT, stev...@my-deja.com wrote:
> [...deletia...]
> >The fact that you reject the evidence we post proving
> >the existence of gas chambers, on the grounds that
> >there is no evidence of gas chambers, is all anyone
> >needs to know about revisionist methodology.
>
> Correction: Credible evidence.
'C.Nay' has not actually read the material posted here regarding evidence for
the gas chambers. Its judgement, therefore, is based solely on its own ignorance.
Orac
G. Brown" <jg_b...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <90dita$vsh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com>
>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:19:35 GMT, stev...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> [...deletia...]
>
>> >The fact that you reject the evidence we post proving the existence
>> >of gas chambers, on the grounds that there is no evidence of gas
>> >chambers, is all anyone needs to know about revisionist
>> >methodology.
>>
>> Correction: Credible evidence.
>
>'C.Nay' has not actually read the material posted here regarding
>evidence for the gas chambers. Its judgement, therefore, is based
>solely on its own ignorance.
"Cheryl" wouldn't know "credible evidence" if it bit "her" on her behind.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"
C.Nay
<jg_b...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com> wrote:
[ some obsessive and very odd shite about
Chris Carpenter flushed ]
>> [ hundreds of lines admitting there is no evidence to
>> support the existence of "gas chambers" but Eugene
>> pleading for people to believe it anyway shitecanned ]
>
>'C.Nay' is lying. Mr. Holman has made no such admission.
>Here is what 'C.Nay' snipped and lied about:
>
>--- begin Mr. Holman's material ---
>
>I am babbling a lot of crap to draw attention away
>from the fact that there is no physical evidence
>that gas chambers used to murder vast numbers of
>jews ever existed. To the contrary fake ones were
>built at Auschwitz and the Holocaust Memorial Museum
>in D.C. and are touted today as 'authentic' because
>no real ones have ever been found.
Erm...thanks, Jeffybot. But that kinda works against
your claim.
>JGB
>
>================================================== ==
>Jeffrey G. Brown jg_b...@my-deja.com
>For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated
>what it means to be a holohugger. For me it means snipping
>and running from the facts I can't handle - which at this
>point is anything related to the holohoax.
> -- The Jeffybot, daily in AR, 2000
C.Nay
wrote:
[..]
>"Cheryl" wouldn't know "credible evidence" if it bit
>"her" on her behind.
Is this an indication that the grip Chris
Carpenter has on your soul is loosening?
Now, as for your claim, "Orac." You wouldn't know
if the evidence I or anyone else submits is credible
or not as you reject, out of hand, anything that
doesn't come from nizkor.
"Orac," becomes quite upset when I throw the facts
above in his face.
- --
Jeffrey G. Brown
> On Sun, 03 Dec 2000 11:17:51 -0500, "Jeffrey G. Brown"
> <jg_b...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> [...deletia...]
> >I am babbling a lot of crap to draw attention away
> >from the fact that there is no physical evidence
> >that gas chambers used to murder vast numbers of
> >jews ever existed. To the contrary fake ones were
> >built at Auschwitz and the Holocaust Memorial Museum
> >in D.C. and are touted today as 'authentic' because
> >no real ones have ever been found.
>
> Erm...thanks, Jeffybot. But that kinda works against
> your claim.
No, it works against your credibility, because you're lying again, bitch. Here's
the original post:
--- begin original post ---
Path: uni-berlin.de!cvg-65-27-170-12.cinci.rr.COM!not-for-mail
From: "Jeffrey G. Brown" <jg_b...@my-deja.com>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: More lies from 'C.Nay'
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 11:17:51 -0500
Organization: none
Lines: 186
Message-ID: <jg_brown-96F6B8...@news.cis.dfn.de>
References: <905hs6$sss$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
<holman-3011...@f24-134-2.pc.helsinki.fi> <90djpv$i5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cvg-65-27-170-12.cinci.rr.com (65.27.170.12)
X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 975860263 815939 65.27.170.12 (16 [54675])
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC)
Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.revisionism:942770
In article <90djpv$i5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:14:45 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
> Holman) wrote:
> >C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >>kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay, OBC) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> The first thing the reader finds at this site is such
> >> unsubstantiated assertions such as:
> >>
> >> "A comparison of Figs. 7 and 8 confirm that during
> >> its first phase Belzec was a temporary, experimental
> >> camp where the procedures and logistics of mass
> >> extermination by gas and the burial of corpses were
> >> tried and tested"
> >>
> >>Considering there is absolutely no evidence that
> >>'gas-chambers' even existed it gives one pause
> >>when the author of that report makes such an
> >>assertion. It tells the reader right away that the
> >>report is biased at best and at worst, well, ...
> >
> >There is abundant historical evidence that Belzec
> >was an extermination camp within the Operation
> >Reinhard network, just as there is that people
> >trained in the use of poison gas for mass killings,
>
> So you agree there is no evidence of "gas chambers"
> used to murder vast numbers of jews. Thanks.
'C.Nay' is lying. Mr. Holman has made no such statement.
> [ hundreds of lines admitting there is no evidence to
> support the existence of "gas chambers" but Eugene
> pleading for people to believe it anyway shitecanned ]
'C.Nay' is lying. Mr. Holman has made no such admission. Here is what 'C.Nay'
snipped and lied about:
--- begin Mr. Holman's material ---
There is abundant historical evidence that Belzec was an extermination
Source:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aktion.reinhard/belzec/ftp.py?camps/aktion.re
inhard/belzec//archaelogical-dig-description
JGB
--- end original post ---
Thanks for giving me the twofold opportunity, bitch: to repost Mr. Holman's
carefully researched article, and to expose you again for the lying cow you are.
JGB
================================================================== =====
Jeffrey G. Brown jg_b...@my-deja.com
For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
Orac
>On Sun, 03 Dec 2000 19:00:02 GMT, Gourd McFee <Or...@wlsfanmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>>"Cheryl" wouldn't know "credible evidence" if it bit
>>"her" on her behind.
>
>Is this an indication that the grip Chris
>Carpenter has on your soul is loosening?
What obsession?
>Now, as for your claim, "Orac." You wouldn't know
>if the evidence I or anyone else submits is credible
>or not as you reject, out of hand, anything that
>doesn't come from nizkor.
Please provide evidence that I ever rejected any evidence out of hand because it
didn't come from Nizkor.
>"Orac," becomes quite upset when I throw the facts
>above in his face.
No, more like quite amused at your tendency to repeat the same lie over and over
and your refusal to produce any evidence to back it up.
Eugene Holman
Brown" <jg_b...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <90kiho$g83$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
>
[DELETED]
>
> > Eugene, is there some special reason that you post a few
> > hundred lines to say "no, there is no evidence to support
> > the existence of 'gas-chambers?'"
>
> 'C.Nay' is lying. Mr. Holman has made no such statement.
Anybody with reading comprehension above that of a ten year old understands
that the purpose of the few hundred lines was to give evidence from a
variety of sources independently _supporting_ the independence of gas
chambers. But, then again, not everyone ever reaches such a lofty level of
intellectual acumen.
>
> > No wonder there is a shortage of bandwidth these days.
>
> 'C.Nay' is unable to deal honestly with the facts about the Holocuast. It
> therefore chooses to lie about what others have said.
>
> JGB
>
> --- end original post ---
>
> Thanks for giving me the twofold opportunity, bitch: to repost Mr. Holman's
> carefully researched article, and to expose you again for the lying cow
you are.
>
Thnaks and touché, Jeff, for giving such a brilliant demonstration of the
fundamental dishonesty of both C. Nay and the revisionist enterprise in
general. The intellectual adventure of the century, indeed.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
J-S...@nyc.rr.com
Her arguments which she, inferentially believes will convince people the
Holocaust never happened, routinely take the form of:
Other people don't believe her evidence.
On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 05:29:39 GMT, C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com>
<90kis0$gi2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> wrote:
...
Cheryl
>C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>Gourd McFee <Or...@wlsfanmail.com> wrote:
>>>Chrissy wouldn't know "credible evidence"
>>>if it bit "her" on her behind.
>>
>>Is this an indication that the grip Chris
>>Carpenter has on your soul is loosening?
>
>What obsession?
>
Ignoring it won't aid in your healing.
Orac\Gourd thought he could hide his obsession
with a little post edit but as is often the case
his dishonesty bit him on the arse.
>Please provide evidence that I ever rejected any
>evidence out of hand because it didn't come from
>Nizkor.
I have, in two other threads. Orac\Gourd, why
do you run from every thread by bringing up
subjects that you know are being addressed in
other threads? What are you so afraid of?
>>"Orac," becomes quite upset when I throw the
>>facts above in his face.
>
>No, more like quite amused at your tendency
>to repeat the same lie over and over and your
>refusal to produce any evidence to back it up.
See above, Orac\Gourd. You aren't fooling anyone.
Orac
<babbli...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 12:58:30 GMT, Orac <Or...@mac.com> wrote:
[Snip]
>>Please provide evidence that I ever rejected any
>>evidence out of hand because it didn't come from
>>Nizkor.
>
>I have, in two other threads. Orac\Gourd, why
>do you run from every thread by bringing up
>subjects that you know are being addressed in
>other threads? What are you so afraid of?
You proved no such thing. Please produce a quote or evidence that shows
I ever rejected out of hand any evidence simply because it did not come
from Nizkor. You can't, can you?
>>>"Orac," becomes quite upset when I throw the
>>>facts above in his face.
>>
>>No, more like quite amused at your tendency
>>to repeat the same lie over and over and your
>>refusal to produce any evidence to back it up.
>
>See above, Orac\Gourd. You aren't fooling anyone.
LOL! "Cheryl," or whatever your name really is, you really are pathetic,
you know.
tom moran
Oops, Orac's title is, "Repetition doesn't make it true, Cheryl".
Does that mean the truth of the Holocaust story is not contigent on
the number of times we see it on TV or in the newspapers and how many
museums there are?
Jeffrey G. Brown
moron) wrote:
That's right, moron. The truth of the history of the Holocaust isn't dependent
on who says it, nor on the number of times it is explained.
It's dependent upon the evidence for it. This evidence includes documents
created by the Nazis themselves, at the time that they were busy exterminating
the Jews of Europe. It includes the testimony of thousands of individuals --
Nazi functionaries, victims who survived, ordinary German citizens, and the
soldiers who liberated the camps and documented what they found there. It
includes the physical evidence left behind -- the equipment used in the T4
program, the extermination camps themselves, the remains of the gas chambers,
and the burial grounds where the bodies of the victims were disposed of.
In all of this, are there going to be inaccuracies, misrememberings,
contradictions, conundrums, and a few outright lies? Of course. The Holocaust
took place over a period of several years and over an entire continent. Not
everyone whose lives were touched by it were trained observers, nor were they
all paragons of honesty and integrity. But the fact that humans don't always
remember an event perfectly doesn't mean that the event never happened -
especially when so many people, backed up by so much documentary and physical
evidence, remember the same general events in the same way.
I suspect that neither you nor your parents could tell us with perfect accuracy
who attended your fourth birthday party, what you received as gifts, or how the
cake was decorated. If you mother says there was a clown on the cake and you
remember that it was a cowboy, does that mean you never had a fourth birthday
party, moron?
Keep misinterpreting the evidence, lying about what people have said, and making
claims that you never get around to backing up with evidence, moron. We'll go on
pointing out what all that evidence of your dishonesty means.
Cheryl
Holman) wrote:
>[DELETED]
Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
that the only evidence to support the existence
of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
didn't wish to comment on this.
- --
Philip Mathews
>Cheryl babbli...@my-deja.com wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:52:03 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>Holman) wrote:
>
>
>>[DELETED]
>
>Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>that the only evidence to support the existence
>of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>didn't wish to comment on this.
>
Since there is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz, and since you're hardly viewed
as a threat to Holocaust history with such inane posts as this, they probably
felt it safe to ignore you.
Try to come back with something a little more challenging next time.
--
Philip Mathews
"Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing
knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant
than would take even a little trouble to acquire it." Samuel Johnson
Buck Turgidson
Cheryl wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:52:03 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
> Holman) wrote:
>
> >[DELETED]
>
> Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
> that the only evidence to support the existence
> of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
> and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
> touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
> millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
> didn't wish to comment on this.
And as is obvious, "Cheryl" can't deal with being dressed down by Eugene
Holman, so he has to snip 'n' squeal. Brave little Denier!
-- Dep
"Always tell the truth. It's the § "Truth is just...truth. You can't
easiest thing to remember." § have opinions about truth."
--David Mamet --Peter Schickele
"It doesn't require much thought. One does not need 'facts' to
interpret."
--The Liar David E. Michael
Joseph Boegler
>
>On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:52:03 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>Holman) wrote:
>
>
>>[DELETED]
>
>Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>that the only evidence to support the existence
>of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>didn't wish to comment on this.
What "fake" gas chamber in Washington, DC are you
referring to? There is no full size reproduction of
a gas chamber at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum
in Washington, DC. There is, however, a scale model
of Krema II in the museum. The scale model is quite
small. Right next to the scale model display is a
casting of one of the doors to a gas chamber at
Majdanek. This is an exact reproduction of the gas
chamber door, made out of some kind of material
that looks like plastic. At the Museum of Tolerance
at the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles there
is a full sized reproduction of the reconstructed gas
chamber at the Auschwitz main camp. This is a large
room which visitors can walk through on the tour.
Doc Tavish
Good question! Watch them not answer!
Doc Tavish
tom moran
Jeffrey G. Brown
joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
> Cheryl babbli...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >
> >On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:52:03 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
> >Holman) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>[DELETED]
> >
> >Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
> >that the only evidence to support the existence
> >of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
> >and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
> >touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
> >millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
> >didn't wish to comment on this.
>
> What "fake" gas chamber in Washington, DC are you
> referring to?
Pretty sad when even another denier catches you in a lie, isn't it, 'C'?
Orac
(tom moran) wrote:
No, the truth of the Holocaust is contingent upon the massive amount of
evidence that it did, indeed, happen, no matter how many times deniers
like you try to repeat your denial.
Jeffrey G. Brown
Gord McFee
tom moran wrote:
That's right, Tom. The historicity of thre Holocaust is independent of
all those things.
Now, run off and count some trees.
--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time
Gord McFee
Doc Tavish wrote:
Oops. They answered, Scottie.
tom moran
"McFee" says:
>Oops. They answered, Scottie.
Who's "they"? In addition to that if there was a "they" "McFee"
wouldn't be one of them.
tom moran
"McFee" blabbers:
>That's right, Tom. The historicity of thre Holocaust is independent of
>all those things.
>
>Now, run off and count some trees.
When that's all you got, that's all you got. With "McFee" he has an
archive (rap sheet) a mile long on record in Deja News that documents
his limitations.
steve wolk
Poor little tommie moron. Everyone knows he's a
demented half-wit. Look what his "revisionist" cohort, David
E. Michael, wrote to him:
"I will gladly do so when you stop posting half-digested idiotic
crap to this newsgroup, making revisionism look idiotic and giving
your opponents a field day" (05/31/2000).
Steve
Gord McFee
tom moran wrote:
Go back to counting trees, Tom, you can't cut it in adult conversation.
Gord McFee
tom moran wrote:
Nice non sequitur, Tom, now get back to counting those trees.
steve wolk
Do you really expect him to count all 2 or 3 of them?
Steve
Buck Turgidson
Gord McFee wrote:
> tom moran wrote:
>
> > "McFee" blabbers:
> >
> >> That's right, Tom. The historicity of thre Holocaust is independent of
> >> all those things.
> >>
> >> Now, run off and count some trees.
> >
> > When that's all you got, that's all you got. With "McFee" he has an
> > archive (rap sheet) a mile long on record in Deja News that documents
> > his limitations.
>
> Nice non sequitur, Tom, now get back to counting those trees.
I've figured out how Li'l Tommy came up with the number of trees in Israel:
he counted as high as he could and kept going. "One, two, three, three,
three, three, three, three..."
steve wolk
Buck Turgidson wrote:
>
> Gord McFee wrote:
>
> > tom moran wrote:
> >
> > > "McFee" blabbers:
> > >
> > >> That's right, Tom. The historicity of thre Holocaust is independent of
> > >> all those things.
> > >>
> > >> Now, run off and count some trees.
> > >
> > > When that's all you got, that's all you got. With "McFee" he has an
> > > archive (rap sheet) a mile long on record in Deja News that documents
> > > his limitations.
> >
> > Nice non sequitur, Tom, now get back to counting those trees.
>
> I've figured out how Li'l Tommy came up with the number of trees in Israel:
> he counted as high as he could and kept going. "One, two, three, three,
> three, three, three, three..."
>
> -- Dep
Or he might have been reminiscing about his educational background.
Steve
steve wolk
Buck Turgidson wrote:
>
> Gord McFee wrote:
>
> > tom moran wrote:
> >
> > > "McFee" blabbers:
> > >
> > >> That's right, Tom. The historicity of thre Holocaust is independent of
> > >> all those things.
> > >>
> > >> Now, run off and count some trees.
> > >
> > > When that's all you got, that's all you got. With "McFee" he has an
> > > archive (rap sheet) a mile long on record in Deja News that documents
> > > his limitations.
> >
> > Nice non sequitur, Tom, now get back to counting those trees.
>
> I've figured out how Li'l Tommy came up with the number of trees in Israel:
> he counted as high as he could and kept going. "One, two, three, three,
> three, three, three, three..."
>
> -- Dep
Ah, you have inspired me to pop a little quiz:
A: Insect joints; window washers; a 70's group; Tom Moron.
Q: What are known as bee knees, squeegees, the Bee Gees, and 3 trees?
Steve
Cheryl
>Cheryl babbli...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>[DELETED]
>>
>>Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>>that the only evidence to support the existence
>>of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>>and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>>touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>>millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>>didn't wish to comment on this.
>>
>Since there is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz
Are you asserting there are "authentic gas
chambers used to murder millions of jews"
at Auschwitz? I notice you don't dispute the
'gas chambers' in D.C. (built with US tax
dollars) are a hoax.
Cheryl
<deppi...@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
>Cheryl wrote:
>>hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>
>> >[DELETED]
>>
>> Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>> that the only evidence to support the existence
>> of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>> and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>> touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>> millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>> didn't wish to comment on this.
>
>And as is obvious, "Cheryl" can't deal with being
>dressed down by Eugene Holman, so he has to
>snip 'n' squeal. Brave little Denier!
As is obvious Scotikens can't read attributes. That
or he's simply lying again.
Are you a cluebie, a liar or both, Scotikens?
Jeffrey G. Brown
> On 10 Dec 2000 00:58:07 GMT, phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
> >Cheryl babbli...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >>hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>[DELETED]
> >>
> >>Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
> >>that the only evidence to support the existence
> >>of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
> >>and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
> >>touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
> >>millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
> >>didn't wish to comment on this.
> >>
> >Since there is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz
>
> Are you asserting there are "authentic gas
> chambers used to murder millions of jews"
> at Auschwitz?
Yes, bitch, there are.
> I notice you don't dispute the
> 'gas chambers' in D.C. (built with US tax
> dollars) are a hoax.
The gas chamber at the USHMM is a replica, bitch. You know that.
Charles Don Hall
>On 10 Dec 2000 00:58:07 GMT, phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>>Cheryl babbli...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>[DELETED]
>>>
>>>Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>>>that the only evidence to support the existence
>>>of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>>>and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>>>touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>>>millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>>>didn't wish to comment on this.
>>>
>>Since there is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz
>
>Are you asserting there are "authentic gas
>chambers used to murder millions of jews"
>at Auschwitz?
That's partly right and partly wrong.
Only about a million Jews were murdered at Auschwitz, and not all of them
were murdered in gas chambers. So you should have said "hundreds of
thousands", not "millions".
Now, there _are_ authentic gas chambers, used to murder hundreds of
thousands of Jews at Auschwitz. None of them are in working order, though,
because the Nazis blew up the buildings.
So it might be better to say that there are ruins of authentic gas
chambers.
> I notice you don't dispute the
>'gas chambers' in D.C. (built with US tax
>dollars) are a hoax.
I'll dispute that. "Hoax" means a deliberate attempt to deceive.
No gas chamber reproduction in DC has ever been advertised as anything
other than a reproduction, therefore there's no attempt to deceive,
therefore there's no hoax.
The standard historians' view is that the Nazis were never able to occupy
Washington, DC, and they therefore wouldn't have been able to build any gas
chambers there. So nobody would even have the motive to produce a hoax. (I
can't believe I'm having to explain this. I wish "Revisionists" would do
some basic research about World War II; it would save everybody a lot of
time.)
--
=================================================================
Charles Don Hall, Licensed Philosopher (cdhall...@erols.com)
The Graduation Webpage: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/4185
=================================================================
Buck Turgidson
Cheryl wrote:
Which part of this didn't you write, Chris? (Outside of the header, of
course.)
<quote>
Subject: Has Anybody Seen My "Gas Chamber?"
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:09:38 GMT
From: Cheryl <babbli...@my-deja.com>
On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:52:03 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:
>[DELETED]
Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
that the only evidence to support the existence
of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
didn't wish to comment on this.
</quote>
So what is it you are confused about now, you poor looneytune?
Buck Turgidson
steve wolk wrote:
> Buck Turgidson wrote:
> >
> > Gord McFee wrote:
> >
> > > tom moran wrote:
> > >
> > > > "McFee" blabbers:
> > > >
> > > >> That's right, Tom. The historicity of thre Holocaust is independent of
> > > >> all those things.
> > > >>
> > > >> Now, run off and count some trees.
> > > >
> > > > When that's all you got, that's all you got. With "McFee" he has an
> > > > archive (rap sheet) a mile long on record in Deja News that documents
> > > > his limitations.
> > >
> > > Nice non sequitur, Tom, now get back to counting those trees.
> >
> > I've figured out how Li'l Tommy came up with the number of trees in Israel:
> > he counted as high as he could and kept going. "One, two, three, three,
> > three, three, three, three..."
> >
> > -- Dep
>
> Ah, you have inspired me to pop a little quiz:
>
> A: Insect joints; window washers; a 70's group; Tom Moron.
>
> Q: What are known as bee knees, squeegees, the Bee Gees, and 3 trees?
>
> Steve
Yahoo! Got 'em all! That was a fun one!
-- Dep
Johann-Sebastian Bot
TROLLING: In C.Nay and others we see the trolling the Denier crowd does for
the low-IQ types. Arguments which she, inferentially believes will convince
people the Holocaust never happened, routinely take the form of:
Trolling 1: The Earth is flat because somebody who thinks it is round is
stupid.
Cheryl
>t...@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>>Oops, Orac's title is, "Repetition doesn't make it
>>true, Cheryl".
>>
>>Does that mean the truth of the Holocaust story is not
>>contigent on the number of times we see it on TV or
>>in the newspapers and how many museums there are?
>
>No, the truth of the Holocaust is contingent upon the
>massive amount of evidence that it did, indeed, happen,
>no matter how many times deniers like you try to repeat
>your denial.
"Evidence" that none of you are able to provide here.
Especially you, Orac\Gourd, you never post anything
except playground insults and lies. Hell, you could at
least post some bogus holohoax info on occasion to
give the appearance that you believe the myth.
- --
Jeffrey G. Brown
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:54:04 GMT, Orac <Or...@wlsfanmail.com> wrote:
> >t...@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> >
> >>Oops, Orac's title is, "Repetition doesn't make it
> >>true, Cheryl".
> >>
> >>Does that mean the truth of the Holocaust story is not
> >>contigent on the number of times we see it on TV or
> >>in the newspapers and how many museums there are?
> >
> >No, the truth of the Holocaust is contingent upon the
> >massive amount of evidence that it did, indeed, happen,
> >no matter how many times deniers like you try to repeat
> >your denial.
>
> "Evidence" that none of you are able to provide here.
False. Evidence is provided here on a regular basis. The only way this bitch can
deal with it, of course, is to snip it from her replies and claim it was never
there in the first place.
Orac
Evidence has been posted here many times before. That you choose to ignore it,
lie about it, or distort it is hardly my fault or the fault of anyone else here
trying to discuss the Holocaust.
Oh, BTW, "Cheryl," you forgot to change my name to "Gourd" in the the line "Orac
wrote:" You must be slipping. :-)
Joseph Boegler
The only "authenic gas chambers" still in existence
are in the Majdanek camp. All the "authenic" ones
at Auschwitz were either blown up or converted to
an air raid shelter. The Auschwitz gas chamber which is
shown to tourists is purported to be a "reconstruction"
which means that the Communists converted the
air raid shelter back to the way they thought it was
originally, when it was alleged to have been a gas
chamber.
There is no full scale model of a gas chamber at
the USHMM. There is a casting of one of the alleged
gas chamber doors from Majdanek, and a small scale
model of Krema II. On the sign next to the scale model,
it says that there were FOUR gas chambers in Auschwitz.
Apparently, they don't acknowledge Krema I, which is
the reconstruction in the main camp at Auschwitz.
Jeffrey G. Brown
joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
> The Auschwitz gas chamber which is
> shown to tourists is purported to be a "reconstruction"
> which means that the Communists converted the
> air raid shelter back to the way they thought it was
> originally, when it was alleged to have been a gas
> chamber.
And how does that change the fact that the Nazis used that chamber to murder
prisoners, Booger?
AlMagnus
>>Cheryl babbli...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>[DELETED]
>>>Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>>>that the only evidence to support the existence
>>>of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>>>and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>>>touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>>>millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>>>didn't wish to comment on this.
>>>
>>Since there is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz
>
>Are you asserting there are "authentic gas
>chambers used to murder millions of jews"
>at Auschwitz? I notice you don't dispute the
>'gas chambers' in D.C. (built with US tax
>dollars) are a hoax.
Joseph Boegler wrote:
>The only "authenic gas chambers" still in existence
>are in the Majdanek camp. All the "authenic" ones
>at Auschwitz were either blown up or converted to
>an air raid shelter. The Auschwitz gas chamber which is
>shown to tourists is purported to be a "reconstruction"
>which means that the Communists converted the
>air raid shelter back to the way they thought it was
>originally, when it was alleged to have been a gas
>chamber.
>There is no full scale model of a gas chamber at
>the USHMM. There is a casting of one of the alleged
>gas chamber doors from Majdanek, and a small scale
>model of Krema II. On the sign next to the scale model,
>it says that there were FOUR gas chambers in Auschwitz.
>Apparently, they don't acknowledge Krema I, which is
>the reconstruction in the main camp at Auschwitz.
You are leaving out the "gas chamber" at Mauthausen which the orthodox story
also claims is in its original state. Notable about this "gas chamber": No
cyanide traces, no blue staining. The hole in the ceiling of this chamber (at
Mauthausen), through which the Zyklon B crystals were supposedly poured, is
small enough to be blocked by the inmates hands, and the ceiling is low enough
for them to block the hole.
The differences between the alleged gas chambers at Birkenau and Mauthausen and
the ones at Madjdanek are instructive in exposing the gas chamber myth and I
will be putting up a post about that in the near future.
For info on the alleged gas chambers:
http://codoh.com/gcgv/gc46-ORIGI.HTML
Al Magnus
Johann-Sebastian Bot
"By the name of 'fallacy' it is common to designate any argument employed
or topic suggested for the purpose, or with the probability of producing
the effect of deception, or of causing some erroneous opinion to be
entertained by any person to whose mind such an argument may have been
presented."
-- Jeremy Bentham
"The Handbook of Political Fallacies
Ad odium: Imputations of Bad Motive
"The proposer of the measure, it is asserted, is actuated by bad motives,
from which it is inferred that he entertains some bad design. ... But what
is peculiar to this particular fallacy, is the falsity of the supposition
on which it is grounded, namely -- the existence of a class or species of
motives to which the epithet 'bad' may be with properly applied.
Johann-Sebastian Bot
The Crank 7: One hallmark of The Crank is the ability to pronounce reality
in every area.
Learned people may spend years investigating and discussing some causal
phenomenon. The Crank can present the "truth" in one sentence.
Normally The Crank is only irritating to the people target ted, but the
Denier crowd believes that "The Holocaust never happened and it should
happen again!"
G'kar
alma...@aol.com (AlMagnus) wrote:
>
> You are leaving out the "gas chamber" at Mauthausen which the
orthodox story
> also claims is in its original state. Notable about this "gas
chamber": No
> cyanide traces, no blue staining. The hole in the ceiling of this
chamber (at
> Mauthausen), through which the Zyklon B crystals were supposedly
poured, is
> small enough to be blocked by the inmates hands, and the ceiling is
low enough
> for them to block the hole.
>
> The differences between the alleged gas chambers at Birkenau and
Mauthausen and
> the ones at Madjdanek are instructive in exposing the gas chamber
myth and I
> will be putting up a post about that in the near future.
>
> For info on the alleged gas chambers:
>
> http://codoh.com/gcgv/gc46-ORIGI.HTML
>
> Al Magnus
They would do better to read the articles on Mathausen at Nizkor, if
they are looking for the truth, rather than the typical CODOH lies.
An excerpt from one:
"
In fall 1941 a gassing chamber was built in the main camp
Mauthausen. This was a room in the basement of the sick bay,
without windows, 3.80m long and 3.50m wide, which was disguised
as a shower-bath. It was tiled, equipped with a ventilation
device and air-tight doors. All switches for the electrical
illumination, for the ventilation, for the water and for the
heating were outside the gassing chamber. The gas was introduced
through an enamel tube from an adjacent room. The tube was installed
parallel to the wall in the gassing chamber and had an estimately
1m long slit on the wall side.[8]
When the camp was freed in May 1945 the American troops got
hold on the device which was used to introduce the gas into the
gassing chamber. A photograph of this device can be found in the
National Archives in Washington.[9] The main part of the device is
a sturdy metal box which measures roughly 75 x 40 x 40cm. The
removable insulated lid of the metal box can be shut airtight with
heavy wing bolts. Inside the box several open cans of Zyklon B can
be stored safely as well as a hot brick used for accelerating the
evaporation of the prussic acid. To both sides of the box valves
are welded. On one side an electrical ventilator can be attached,
on the other side a hose leading to the enamel tube described
above."
Source: http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.py?camps/mauthausen/killings-in-
mauthausen
While Mathausen was not adapted to become an extermination camp like
Auschwitz-Birkenau, nor set up primarily for that purpose like
Treblinka, the gas chamber was used to murder prisoners.
"
In the sixties a trial before the district court Hagen/Westphalia
took place against the former SS-Hautpscharfuehrer Martin Roth.
Since Roth was Kommandofuehrer of the crematorium from the beginning
of May 1940 till the liberation of the camp, the functioning of
the gassing device was discussed extensively in the trial and
documented in the verdict:
When a gassing was to be carried through, [...] Roth ordered
one of the inmates under his command in the Krematoriumskommando -
in most cases the witness Kanduth - to heat up a brick in the
oven of the crematorium. Roth carried the hot brick with a
shovel into the gassing cell and put it there into the gassing
device. This consisted of an iron box with a removable lid, which
could be sealed airtight with wing bolts and insulation. The hot
brick put inside served the purpose to accelerate the evaporation
of the poisonous gas by the rising heat. The gas was introduced
later and was was bound to bits of paper.
In the meantime the victims [...] were led to the changing room
of the gassing facility where they had to remove their clothes.
After that they had to step into the next room where several
SS-ranks stood, wearing white doctors' coats. [...] They put a
wooden spatula into the mouth of the victims to see whether there
were any golden teeth. If this was the case, the inmate was
marked with a colour cross on the breast or on the back. Then
the victims [...] were led into the gassing chamber which was
tiles and equipped with showers. [...]
Roughly 15 minutes after the gas had been introduced into the
gassing chamber, the defendant Roth convinced himself by looking
through the peep-hole of the door that no victim in the gassing
chamber was stirring any longer, and then switched on the
ventilator, [...] which sucked the gas out of the gassing chamber
through a chimney. [...] After that Roth carefully opened both
doors of the gassing chamber, into which he first carefully held
a specially prepared slip of paper to check whether the room
was free of gas. Then he ordered the inmates under his command
to carry the corpses into the cold-store of the crematorium.
[...] "
Excerpted material covered in the footnotes at the above URL.
The document notes that the SS men who were tried for their
participation in the gassings at Mathausen never denied that the
gassings took place.
It would seem to me that they would know better than the CODOH crowd
what went on there.
--
G'Quon wrote, There is a greater darkness
than the one we fight. It is the darkness
of the soul that has lost its way.
Joseph Boegler
>
>
>In article <20001213173532...@ng-fm1.aol.com>,
> alma...@aol.com (AlMagnus) wrote:
>
>>
>> You are leaving out the "gas chamber" at Mauthausen which the
>orthodox story
>> also claims is in its original state. Notable about this "gas
>chamber": No
>> cyanide traces, no blue staining. The hole in the ceiling of this
>chamber (at
>> Mauthausen), through which the Zyklon B crystals were supposedly
>poured, is
>> small enough to be blocked by the inmates hands, and the ceiling is
>low enough
>> for them to block the hole.
>>
>> The differences between the alleged gas chambers at Birkenau and
>Mauthausen and
>> the ones at Madjdanek are instructive in exposing the gas chamber
>myth and I
>> will be putting up a post about that in the near future.
>>
>> For info on the alleged gas chambers:
>>
>> http://codoh.com/gcgv/gc46-ORIGI.HTML
>>
>> Al Magnus
I didn't include Mauthausen when I said that Majdanek has
the ONLY "authenic gas chamber" for two reasons: Not
everyone agrees that Mauthausen HAD a "gas chamber" and
the room has been modified. It no longer has the device
in the adjoining room through which the gas was introduced.
You are correct that there are differences in the so-called
gas chambers at Mauthausen and Majdanek. The Mauthausen
"gas chamber" looks like a shower and has NO BLUE STAINS.
The Majdanek "gas chambers" have heavy blue stains and
the shower room is next door to the "gas chambers". Several
survivor stories mention that the inmates took showers in
the room that is now purported to be a "gas chamber" in
Mauthausen. Simon Wiesenthal was an inmate at Mauthausen
and he has said that there was no "gas chamber" there.
There were American POWs at Mauthausen. Did any of them
ever write a book which mentioned gassing in Mauthausen?
I don't think so.
Eugene Holman
joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
>
> I didn't include Mauthausen when I said that Majdanek has
> the ONLY "authenic gas chamber" for two reasons: Not
> everyone agrees that Mauthausen HAD a "gas chamber" and
> the room has been modified.
These things happen
> It no longer has the device
> in the adjoining room through which the gas was introduced.
It was removed by the Americans in 1945.
> You are correct that there are differences in the so-called
> gas chambers at Mauthausen and Majdanek. The Mauthausen
> "gas chamber" looks like a shower and has NO BLUE STAINS.
Unlike Majdanek, it had enamel tile walls. Nor, it seems, was it used for
more than a few occasional gassings. We're talking about at most a few
thousand people gassed at Mauthausen, while at Majdanek we're talking of
numbers in the hundreds of thousands.
> The Majdanek "gas chambers" have heavy blue stains and
> the shower room is next door to the "gas chambers". Several
> survivor stories mention that the inmates took showers in
> the room that is now purported to be a "gas chamber" in
> Mauthausen.
So the gas chamber was evidently a shower room that could function as a gas
chamber according to circumstances.
> Simon Wiesenthal was an inmate at Mauthausen
> and he has said that there was no "gas chamber" there.
> There were American POWs at Mauthausen. Did any of them
> ever write a book which mentioned gassing in Mauthausen?
> I don't think so.
Tell me, how much freedom of access does an inmate have to the facilities
at his prison? I would give very little credence to the claims made by a
person that spent a limited time at a detention facility that the facility
in question had or did not have a certain type of installation. They cannot
possibily everything about the place where they were incarcerated nor does
their period of incarceration coincide with the history of the facility.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Joseph Boegler
>In article <20001214012539...@ng-fb1.aol.com>,
>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> I didn't include Mauthausen when I said that Majdanek has
>> the ONLY "authenic gas chamber" for two reasons: Not
>> everyone agrees that Mauthausen HAD a "gas chamber" and
>> the room has been modified.
>
>These things happen
>
>> It no longer has the device
>> in the adjoining room through which the gas was introduced.
>
>It was removed by the Americans in 1945.
Smart move. It is much better to get rid of the evidence
so that it can't be examined closely. That way it is
easier to believe that a shower was really a gas chamber.
The "gas chamber" at Sachsenhausen was blown up
by the Russians in the 1950ies. The "gas chambers"
at Birkenau were also blown up, one by the inmates
and three others allegedly by the Germans. The
Germans also allegedly burned down the crematorium
at Majdanek which allegedly had a gas chamber.
The entire camps at Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec
were dismantled by the Germans. That leaves only
the "authenic gas chambers" at Majdanek. Do you
have any theory about why the Germans burned down
one gas chamber, but left another building with three
other gas chambers at Majdanek? My theory is that
it was the Russians who destroyed what they thought
were gas chambers at Majdanek and at Birkenau.
They had been told that the "gas chambers" were
in the same building with the ovens, so those are the
buildings they destroyed. They found out later that
Majdanek had "gas chambers" near the clothing
warehouses. So that's why we have one, and only
one, camp with "authenic gas chambers".
>> You are correct that there are differences in the so-called
>> gas chambers at Mauthausen and Majdanek. The Mauthausen
>> "gas chamber" looks like a shower and has NO BLUE STAINS.
>
>Unlike Majdanek, it had enamel tile walls. Nor, it seems, was it used for
>more than a few occasional gassings. We're talking about at most a few
>thousand people gassed at Mauthausen, while at Majdanek we're talking of
>numbers in the hundreds of thousands.
The museum at Majdanek says that the total number of
deaths from all causes at the camp was 235,000. Forty-one
percent of the Majdanek inmates were Jews and 48% of those
who died were Jews. So that means that there couldn't
have been hundreds of thousands who were gassed.
>> The Majdanek "gas chambers" have heavy blue stains and
>> the shower room is next door to the "gas chambers". Several
>> survivor stories mention that the inmates took showers in
>> the room that is now purported to be a "gas chamber" in
>> Mauthausen.
>
>So the gas chamber was evidently a shower room that could function as a
>gas
>chamber according to circumstances.
>
>> Simon Wiesenthal was an inmate at Mauthausen
>> and he has said that there was no "gas chamber" there.
>> There were American POWs at Mauthausen. Did any of them
>> ever write a book which mentioned gassing in Mauthausen?
>> I don't think so.
>
>Tell me, how much freedom of access does an inmate have to the facilities
>at his prison? I would give very little credence to the claims made by a
>person that spent a limited time at a detention facility that the facility
>in question had or did not have a certain type of installation. They cannot
>possibily everything about the place where they were incarcerated nor does
>their period of incarceration coincide with the history of the facility.
But the whole Holocaust story is based on the testimony
of survivors of the camps! Now you are saying that the
inmates couldn't know about the facilities there? Exactly
right. Their testimony was based on hearsay. As soon
as they arrived at the camp, the old-timers told them about
the gas chamber. This didn't happen at Mauthausen because
it was not primarily a Jewish camp - it was the Jews who
were spreading these rumors in the camps.
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman
>
>
>
>
>
Eugene Holman
joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
> hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>
> >It was removed by the Americans in 1945.
>
> Smart move. It is much better to get rid of the evidence
> so that it can't be examined closely.
Quite the opposite. All the better to be able to examine it closely:
[BEGIN QUOTE]
In fall 1941 a gassing chamber was built in the main camp
Mauthausen. This was a room in the basement of the sick bay,
without windows, 3.80m long and 3.50m wide, which was disguised
as a shower-bath. It was tiled, equipped with a ventilation
device and air-tight doors. All switches for the electrical
illumination, for the ventilation, for the water and for the
heating were outside the gassing chamber. The gas was introduced
through an enamel tube from an adjacent room. The tube was installed
parallel to the wall in the gassing chamber and had an estimately
1m long slit on the wall side.[8]
When the camp was freed in May 1945 the American troops got
hold on the device which was used to introduce the gas into the
gassing chamber. A photograph of this device can be found in the
National Archives in Washington.[9] The main part of the device is
a sturdy metal box which measures roughly 75 x 40 x 40cm. The
removable insulated lid of the metal box can be shut airtight with
heavy wing bolts. Inside the box several open cans of Zyklon B can
be stored safely as well as a hot brick used for accelerating the
evaporation of the prussic acid. To both sides of the box valves
are welded. On one side an electrical ventilator can be attached,
on the other side a hose leading to the enamel tube described
above.
[END QUOTE]
Source: http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.py?camps/mauthausen/killings-in-
mauthausen
**************************
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Philip Mathews
>Cheryl anti...@my-deja.com wrote:
>On 10 Dec 2000 00:58:07 GMT, phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>>Cheryl babbli...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>[DELETED]
>>>
>>>Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>>>that the only evidence to support the existence
>>>of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>>>and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>>>touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>>>millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>>>didn't wish to comment on this.
>>>
>>Since there is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz
>
>Are you asserting there are "authentic gas
>chambers used to murder millions of jews"
>at Auschwitz?
I guess that means you're now running from another ignorant statement.
There is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz.
Millions of Jews weren't killed by gas chambers at Auschwtiz.
You're claim to fake gas chambers at Auschwitz is another of your lies.
I'm afraid if you don't start reading some history you're education is going to
take a very long time.
--
Philip Mathews
"Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing
knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant
than would take even a little trouble to acquire it." Samuel Johnson
Philip Mathews
>alma...@aol.com (AlMagnus) wrote:
>>On 10 Dec 2000 00:58:07 GMT, phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>>>Cheryl babbli...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>>hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>[DELETED]
>>>>Cheryl wrote:
>>>>Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>>>>that the only evidence to support the existence
>>>>of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>>>>and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>>>>touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>>>>millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>>>>didn't wish to comment on this.
>>>>
>>>Since there is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz
>>
>>Are you asserting there are "authentic gas
>>chambers used to murder millions of jews"
>>at Auschwitz? I notice you don't dispute the
>>'gas chambers' in D.C. (built with US tax
>>dollars) are a hoax.
Millions weren't killed in gas chambers at Auschwitz. There is no fake gas
chamber at Auschwitz of in Washingtion D.C.
>
>Joseph Boegler wrote:
>>The only "authenic gas chambers" still in existence
>>are in the Majdanek camp. All the "authenic" ones
>>at Auschwitz were either blown up or converted to
>>an air raid shelter.
Which doesn't make it fake. There is also a gas chamber at Majdanek.
> The Auschwitz gas chamber which is
>>shown to tourists is purported to be a "reconstruction"
>>which means that the Communists converted the
>>air raid shelter back to the way they thought it was
>>originally, when it was alleged to have been a gas
>>chamber.
>
>>There is no full scale model of a gas chamber at
>>the USHMM. There is a casting of one of the alleged
>>gas chamber doors from Majdanek, and a small scale
>>model of Krema II. On the sign next to the scale model,
>>it says that there were FOUR gas chambers in Auschwitz.
>>Apparently, they don't acknowledge Krema I, which is
>>the reconstruction in the main camp at Auschwitz.
>
>You are leaving out the "gas chamber" at Mauthausen which the orthodox story
>also claims is in its original state. Notable about this "gas chamber": No
>cyanide traces, no blue staining.
How do you know there are no cyanide traces? The blue staining is irrelevant.
> The hole in the ceiling of this chamber (at
>Mauthausen), through which the Zyklon B crystals were supposedly poured, is
>small enough to be blocked by the inmates hands, and the ceiling is low
>enough
>for them to block the hole.
What is the height of the ceiling in the Mauthausen gas chamber?
>
>The differences between the alleged gas chambers at Birkenau and Mauthausen
>and
>the ones at Madjdanek are instructive in exposing the gas chamber myth and I
>will be putting up a post about that in the near future.
Yeah, I'm sure it will be something we've never seen before!
Philip Mathews
>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
>G'kar g_kar_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>I didn't include Mauthausen when I said that Majdanek has
>the ONLY "authenic gas chamber" for two reasons: Not
>everyone agrees that Mauthausen HAD a "gas chamber" and
>the room has been modified.
There is fairly stong agreement today. Wormser-Migot once expressed doubts, but
I believe her countrymen have answered those concerns. The fact that the gas
chamber has been modified does not mean it is fake, which was the original
charge.
> It no longer has the device
>in the adjoining room through which the gas was introduced.
>You are correct that there are differences in the so-called
>gas chambers at Mauthausen and Majdanek. The Mauthausen
>"gas chamber" looks like a shower and has NO BLUE STAINS.
The Mauthausen gas chambers has fake showers. The lack of blue stains is not
significant.
>The Majdanek "gas chambers" have heavy blue stains and
>the shower room is next door to the "gas chambers". Several
>survivor stories mention that the inmates took showers in
>the room that is now purported to be a "gas chamber" in
>Mauthausen. Simon Wiesenthal was an inmate at Mauthausen
>and he has said that there was no "gas chamber" there.
No one says they took showers in the gas chambers.
>There were American POWs at Mauthausen. Did any of them
>ever write a book which mentioned gassing in Mauthausen?
>I don't think so.
Lieutenant Commander Jack Taylor of the US Navy testified to gassing at
Mauthausen in a trial against Hans Altfuldisch in 1946.
If you have real video, you can watch a piece of a U.S. film made at
liberation. During a short audio section, Taylor talks about gassing as one of
the methods of killing.
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/mauthausen/Mauthausen-00.html
Gord McFee
Philip Mathews wrote:
> In >Message-id: <916nr4$jo2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>> Cheryl anti...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 10 Dec 2000 00:58:07 GMT, phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>>
>>> Cheryl babbli...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [DELETED]
>>>>
>>>> Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>>>> that the only evidence to support the existence
>>>> of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>>>> and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>>>> touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>>>> millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>>>> didn't wish to comment on this.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Since there is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz
>>
>> Are you asserting there are "authentic gas
>> chambers used to murder millions of jews"
>> at Auschwitz?
>
>
> I guess that means you're now running from another ignorant statement.
>
> There is no fake gas chamber at Auschwitz.
>
> Millions of Jews weren't killed by gas chambers at Auschwtiz.
>
> You're claim to fake gas chambers at Auschwitz is another of your lies.
>
> I'm afraid if you don't start reading some history you're education is going to
> take a very long time.
I fear you are basing that on the assumption that Chrissy gives a damn
about the truth. He doesn't. He can't deal with it.
--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time
Joseph Boegler
>
>In >Message-id: <20001214012539...@ng-fb1.aol.com>
>
>>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
>
>>G'kar g_kar_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>
>>I didn't include Mauthausen when I said that Majdanek has
>>the ONLY "authenic gas chamber" for two reasons: Not
>>everyone agrees that Mauthausen HAD a "gas chamber" and
>>the room has been modified.
>
>There is fairly stong agreement today. Wormser-Migot once expressed doubts,
>but
>I believe her countrymen have answered those concerns. The fact that the
>gas
>chamber has been modified does not mean it is fake, which was the original
>charge.
I interpreted the term "authentic" to mean in
original condition, whether or not it was a real
gas chamber. The room at Mauthausen, which
is claimed to have been a gas chamber, is not in the
condition that it was purportedly in when the
American army described it in May, 1945.
>> It no longer has the device
>>in the adjoining room through which the gas was introduced.
>>You are correct that there are differences in the so-called
>>gas chambers at Mauthausen and Majdanek. The Mauthausen
>>"gas chamber" looks like a shower and has NO BLUE STAINS.
>
>The Mauthausen gas chambers has fake showers. The lack of blue stains is
>not
>significant.
The room at Mauthausen, which is claimed to be a
"gas chamber", has functioning shower heads.
Several survivors describe going into the basement
of the hospital building to take a shower when they
first arrived at the camp. There is no other shower
room in that basement.
>>The Majdanek "gas chambers" have heavy blue stains and
>>the shower room is next door to the "gas chambers". Several
>>survivor stories mention that the inmates took showers in
>>the room that is now purported to be a "gas chamber" in
>>Mauthausen. Simon Wiesenthal was an inmate at Mauthausen
>>and he has said that there was no "gas chamber" there.
>
>No one says they took showers in the gas chambers.
No, the survivors who described taking a shower in
the basement of the building where the "gas chamber"
is located did not say that the room was a "gas chamber".
They called it a shower room, but it is the same room
that is now shown to tourists as the "gas chamber".
>>There were American POWs at Mauthausen. Did any of them
>>ever write a book which mentioned gassing in Mauthausen?
>>I don't think so.
>
>Lieutenant Commander Jack Taylor of the US Navy testified to gassing at
>Mauthausen in a trial against Hans Altfuldisch in 1946.
>
>If you have real video, you can watch a piece of a U.S. film made at
>liberation. During a short audio section, Taylor talks about gassing as
>one of
>the methods of killing.
Interesting. Why did they need so many methods of
killing? Wasn't that over kill? Why bother with such
a small gas chamber when they could push people
over the cliff, shoot them, beat them to death, etc.
Thanks for the URL
Joseph Boegler
The ceiling is low but I don't know the exact height.
There is still a hole in the ceiling which some versions of the
story say was the hole through which the gas was poured,
but the official version now is that the gas came in through
a pipe from the adjoining room. This adjoining room is now
completely bare and there is no hole in the wall for the former
pipe. There are two doors to this "gas chamber" and it
looks a lot like the "gas chamber" at Dachau except that
the shower heads are real. The walls look like shower
room walls at both Dachau and Mauthausen.
BTW, there was also a tiny "gas chamber" at Hartheim
Castle which is VERY close to Mauthausen. Terminally
ill inmates from both Dachau and Mauthausen were sent
to Hartheim Castle, allegedly to be gassed. One would
think that they would just use the perfectly good
"gas chambers" at Dachau and Mauthausen, rather than
go to the trouble of building yet another "gas chamber"
in an old castle.
Philip Mathews
joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
> phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>
> >
> >In >Message-id: <20001214012539...@ng-fb1.aol.com>
> >
> >>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
> >
> >>G'kar g_kar_...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I didn't include Mauthausen when I said that Majdanek has
> >>the ONLY "authenic gas chamber" for two reasons: Not
> >>everyone agrees that Mauthausen HAD a "gas chamber" and
> >>the room has been modified.
> >
> >There is fairly stong agreement today. Wormser-Migot once expressed
doubts,
> >but
> >I believe her countrymen have answered those concerns. The fact that
the
> >gas
> >chamber has been modified does not mean it is fake, which was the
original
> >charge.
>
> I interpreted the term "authentic" to mean in
> original condition, whether or not it was a real
> gas chamber. The room at Mauthausen, which
> is claimed to have been a gas chamber, is not in the
> condition that it was purportedly in when the
> American army described it in May, 1945.
Correct. But that is not the same as declaring it fake. That was the
false charge made.
>
> >> It no longer has the device
> >>in the adjoining room through which the gas was introduced.
> >>You are correct that there are differences in the so-called
> >>gas chambers at Mauthausen and Majdanek. The Mauthausen
> >>"gas chamber" looks like a shower and has NO BLUE STAINS.
> >
> >The Mauthausen gas chambers has fake showers. The lack of blue stains
is
> >not
> >significant.
>
> The room at Mauthausen, which is claimed to be a
> "gas chamber", has functioning shower heads.
No, it does not.
> Several survivors describe going into the basement
> of the hospital building to take a shower when they
> first arrived at the camp. There is no other shower
> room in that basement.
You may indeed be correct. Apparently there may have been a functioning
shower in the room also used as a gas chamber. But the testimony, gas
tight doors, venitilation system, and gas dispensing apparatus are clear
indications of a gassing facility which probably handles no more than a
few thousand people over its lifetime. I would like to read these
accounts. Do you have citations?
Who said they needed them?
Wasn't that over kill? Why bother with such
> a small gas chamber when they could push people
> over the cliff, shoot them, beat them to death, etc.
Skepticism and incredulity are not evidence.
>
> Thanks for the URL
>
> >http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/mauthausen/Mauthausen-00.html
--
Philip Mathews
Philip Mathews
It's not that low. It has, after all, a shower system built into the
ceiling. A photo is here:
http://www.mauthausen-memorial.gv.at/engl/Geschichte/f.Geschichte.html
> There is still a hole in the ceiling which some versions of the
> story say was the hole through which the gas was poured,
> but the official version now is that the gas came in through
> a pipe from the adjoining room.
You say "official version now", implying some change in the
understanding. That is not true. As for "versions" that say gas came
from a hole in the ceiling, you'll have to show me, and demonstate that
such versions were ever accepted by historians.
> This adjoining room is now
> completely bare and there is no hole in the wall for the former
> pipe. There are two doors to this "gas chamber" and it
> looks a lot like the "gas chamber" at Dachau except that
> the shower heads are real. The walls look like shower
> room walls at both Dachau and Mauthausen.
And both doors were hermetically sealed.
>
> BTW, there was also a tiny "gas chamber" at Hartheim
> Castle which is VERY close to Mauthausen. Terminally
> ill inmates from both Dachau and Mauthausen were sent
> to Hartheim Castle, allegedly to be gassed. One would
> think that they would just use the perfectly good
> "gas chambers" at Dachau and Mauthausen, rather than
> go to the trouble of building yet another "gas chamber"
> in an old castle.
The gas chamber at Hartheim pre-dates that of Mauthausen. It was part of
the T4 program. Not only was a gas chamber built at Mauthausen, but a
gas van ran between Mauthausen and Gusen. Why they wanted more than one
is a question that does not affect the fact that they had more than one.
Joseph Boegler
Thanks for the URL with the information about the
Mauthausen gas chamber. In a previous post, you
disputed my statement that the shower heads at
Mauthausen are functional. The web site that you sent
me to confirms my statement that they are real.
I have had the opportunity to see real Nazi showers,
admitted to be functional showers, at both
Majdanek and the Theresienstadt Little Fortress.
The exposed pipes and shower heads in these two
real shower rooms look exactly like the ones at
Mauthausen. The shower room at Majdanek looks
exactly like the shower room at Mauthausen, only
a little bigger. It has two doors with
peepholes. One of the doors leads into the
dressing room and the other leads to one of the
so-called gas chamber rooms. The gas chamber at
Dachau, which I think was originally a shower room,
also has two doors, one to the undressing room and
one to the oven room.
I have observed many similiarities in the buildings
and various fixtures at the concentration camps,
so it is not surprising that the shower rooms look
similiar. I think the American Army modified a shower
room at Dachau and this is the "gas chamber" that is
shown to tourists today. The shower room at
Mauthausen was allegely modified by the American
Army which supposedly found a pipe apparatus in the
adjoining room and removed it. If there was ever a hole
in the wall for the pipe, it has been closed up, so that the
"gas chamber" at Mauthausen is now a shower room.
Simon Wiesenthal, who lives in Austria today, has said
twice that there were no death camps in the Greater
German Reich, so that means that he does not
consider the shower room at Mauthausen to be a
"gas chamber". He should know since he was an
inmate at Mauthausen. When he was brought to the
camp, he had to have taken a shower in the room
now called a "gas chamber" because there is no other
shower room in that building.
Philip Mathews
Yes, I acknowledge this in the other response to you in this thread.
(repost)
> Several survivors describe going into the basement
> of the hospital building to take a shower when they
> first arrived at the camp. There is no other shower
> room in that basement.
You may indeed be correct. Apparently there may have been a functioning
shower in the room also used as a gas
chamber. But the testimony, gas tight doors, venitilation system, and
gas dispensing apparatus are clear indications of a
gassing facility which probably handles no more than a few thousand
people over its lifetime. I would like to read these
accounts. Do you have citations?
(end repost)
(snip)
$hery1
<deppi...@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
>Cheryl wrote:
>>Buck Turgidson <deppi...@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >And as is obvious, "Cheryl" can't deal with
>> >being dressed down by Eugene Holman,
>> >so he has to snip 'n' squeal. Brave little
>> >Denier!
>>
>>As is obvious Scotikens can't read attributes.
>>That or he's simply lying again.
>>
>> Are you a cluebie, a liar or both, Scotikens?
>
>Which part of this didn't you write, Chris? (Outside
>of the header, of course.)
>
><quote>
>Subject: Has Anybody Seen My "Gas Chamber?"
> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:09:38 GMT
> From: Cheryl <babbli...@my-deja.com>
>
>
>hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>
Just below we have Holman snipping and
running. Yet above we see Scotikens asserting
that it was I who snipped and ran. Honesty isn't
something hoaxsters concern themselves
with.
>>[DELETED]
>
>Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
>that the only evidence to support the existence
>of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
>and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
>touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
>millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
>didn't wish to comment on this.
></quote>
>
>So what is it you are confused about now, you
>poor looneytune?
Caught lying once again Scotikens can do nothing
but babble about his favourite cartoons.
- --
Buck Turgidson
"$hery1" wrote:
Wrong again, Steryl. You were complaining that I didn't know how to read
attributes, inferring that I had misquoted you. I put the entire thing
up again to show I hadn't. You just can't deal with being wrong.
>
>
> >>[DELETED]
> >
> >Holman\Keren was asked to speak to the fact
> >that the only evidence to support the existence
> >of "gas chambers" are the fake ones at Auschwitz
> >and in Washington D.C. - the fake ones that are
> >touted as "authentic gas chambers used to murder
> >millions of jews." As you can see Holman\Keren
> >didn't wish to comment on this.
> ></quote>
> >
> >So what is it you are confused about now, you
> >poor looneytune?
>
> Caught lying once again Scotikens can do nothing
> but babble about his favourite cartoons.
Poor looneytune Steryl. Not going to let being wrong stop you from
frothing at the mouth again, are you, little chihuahua?
-- Dep
"Always tell the truth. It's the § "Truth is just...truth. You can't
easiest thing to remember." § have opinions about truth."
--David Mamet --Peter Schickele
"It doesn't require much thought. One does not need 'facts' to
interpret."
--The Liar David E. Michael
Buck Turgidson
What was Joseph Boegler thinking when he wrote:
> hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>
> >In article <20001214012539...@ng-fb1.aol.com>,
> >joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I didn't include Mauthausen when I said that Majdanek has
> >> the ONLY "authenic gas chamber" for two reasons: Not
> >> everyone agrees that Mauthausen HAD a "gas chamber" and
> >> the room has been modified.
> >
> >These things happen
> >
> >> It no longer has the device
> >> in the adjoining room through which the gas was introduced.
> >
> >It was removed by the Americans in 1945.
>
> Smart move. It is much better to get rid of the evidence
> so that it can't be examined closely. That way it is
> easier to believe that a shower was really a gas chamber.
YES. Yes, that's it EXACTLY. The Americans removed evidence that it was a gas
chamber so it couldn't be examined closely, and that way they could claim it
was a gas chamber.
<remainder filed under D for "DUH">
Joseph Boegler
>Path:
>lobby!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!europa.netcrusader.net!6
4.152.100.70!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclo
ne-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfe
ed.earthlink.net!news.minds
>pring.net!not-for-mail
>From: Buck Turgidson deppi...@pop.mindspring.com
>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 00:18:19 -0600
>Organization: Weasel Squeezin's Ltd.
>Lines: 44
>Message-ID: <3A3C5AAA...@pop.mindspring.com>
>References: <holman-ya02408000...@news.helsinki.fi>
><20001214074929...@ng-fh1.aol.com>
>Reply-To: deppi...@mindspring.com
>NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.ab.8c
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854";
>x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>X-Server-Date: 17 Dec 2000 05:19:12 GMT
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
>X-Accept-Language: en
>
>
>
>
>
>What was Joseph Boegler thinking when he wrote:
>
>> hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <20001214012539...@ng-fb1.aol.com>,
>> >joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I didn't include Mauthausen when I said that Majdanek has
>> >> the ONLY "authenic gas chamber" for two reasons: Not
>> >> everyone agrees that Mauthausen HAD a "gas chamber" and
>> >> the room has been modified.
>> >
>> >These things happen
>> >
>> >> It no longer has the device
>> >> in the adjoining room through which the gas was introduced.
>> >
>> >It was removed by the Americans in 1945.
>>
>> Smart move. It is much better to get rid of the evidence
>> so that it can't be examined closely. That way it is
>> easier to believe that a shower was really a gas chamber.
>
>YES. Yes, that's it EXACTLY. The Americans removed evidence that it was a gas
>chamber so it couldn't be examined closely, and that way they could claim it
>was a gas chamber.
The Mauthausen "gas chamber" looks exactly
like a shower room and has functional shower
heads, water pipes, and tiled walls.
There is no evidence in the room today that
it was ever anything but a shower room.
The alleged apparatus for introducing the
gas was removed. If it were still there, visitors
could examine it and form an opinion on
whether this room was ever a "gas chamber".
Now, do you get it? True Believers just have
to have faith that the room was once a
"gas chamber", although it is now a shower
room.
><remainder filed under D for "DUH">
Philip Mathews
>
>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
The factual nature of historical events does not need to be proven on a
continuous basis throughout time. It does not depend on some form of visitor
plebiscite at the location of the event. If the piece of evidence you cite were
still there, you would simply find another reason for ignoring it. That's the
nature of Holocaust Denial.
$hery1
>>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
[..]
>>The Mauthausen "gas chamber" looks exactly
>>like a shower room and has functional shower
>>heads, water pipes, and tiled walls.
>>There is no evidence in the room today that
>>it was ever anything but a shower room.
>>The alleged apparatus for introducing the
>>gas was removed. If it were still there,
>>visitors could examine it and form an opinion
>>on whether this room was ever a "gas chamber".
>>Now, do you get it? True Believers just have
>>to have faith that the room was once a
>>"gas chamber", although it is now a shower
>>room.
>
>The factual nature of historical events does
>not need to be proven
Philly has faith.
Philip Mathews
>$hery1 derek_...@my-deja.com wrote:
Gee look, Cheryl snips the end of a sentence.
How dishonest. How typical.
Now Cheryl, did the Nazis attempt the genocide of European Jews during WWII,
succeeding in murdering approximately 6,000,000 by various means including gas
chambers? Yes or no.
Eugene Holman
wrote:
> On 17 Dec 2000 14:47:52 GMT, phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
> >>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
>
> [..]
>
> >>The Mauthausen "gas chamber" looks exactly
> >>like a shower room and has functional shower
> >>heads, water pipes, and tiled walls.
So the Nazis would have fooled you, too. Like a shower room is exactly how
it was supposed to look. People are usually eager to enter a shower room
but tend to be somewhat reluctant to enter a gas chamber...
> >>There is no evidence in the room today that
> >>it was ever anything but a shower room.
> >>The alleged apparatus for introducing the
> >>gas was removed. If it were still there,
> >>visitors could examine it and form an opinion
> >>on whether this room was ever a "gas chamber".
> >>Now, do you get it? True Believers just have
> >>to have faith that the room was once a
> >>"gas chamber", although it is now a shower
> >>room.
> >
> >The factual nature of historical events does
> >not need to be proven
>
> Philly has faith.
>
Historical evidence of various types provides abundant reason for
concluding that the room was once used as a place for gassing people.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Joseph Boegler
But WHY? Why have a gas chamber at Mauthausen?
The reason the Mauthausen site was chosen is that
it was the former site of an old prison. The old prison
had been located there because there was a rock
quarry and the prisoners had been used to work in
the quarry. The Nazis chose the site because they
needed granite to build the buildings that Hitler and
his architect, Albert Speer, were designing for
Linz, a city that is close to the Mauthausen camp.
(Linz was where Hitler lived as a young boy and where
he planned to retire.)
Mauthausen was designated as the ONLY Class III
camp which meant that it was intended for prisoners
who were not capable of being rehabilitated. Dachau
was a Class I camp and Buchenwald was a Class II
camp. Mauthausen was never intended as a camp
for the Jews because the plan was to evacuate the
Jews TO THE EAST. Mauthausen was intended as a
"punishment" camp where prisoners were sent to
do hard labor in the quarry. It was not a good
location for a "death camp" because it is located
on a high plateau and the railroad line is a long way
from the camp. (Of course, the railroad line could
have been extended, but it wasn't.)
After the German Anschluss with Austria, the
Austrian Jews were expelled and sent to other
countries. By the time the Nazis decided to
evacuate all the Jews to the east, there were only
50,000 of them left and these were mostly
older people. The Austrian Jews were sent to
THERESIENSTADT, NOT MAUTHAUSEN. The death
rate of the Austrian Jews was extremely high at
Theresienstadt because they were all old or sick.
The only Jews sent to Mauthausen were partisans
or political prisoners, or those who had escaped
from other camps, or hard core criminals.
Simon Wiesenthal wound up there because he was
a partisan, and he had escaped from other camps.
American pilots who were captured after bombing
German civilian targets were sent there instead of
to the regular POW camps. There were a lot of
Spaniards who had fought in the Spanish Civil
War and then continued to fight as partisans against
the Germans were sent there.
Towards the end of the war, Jews from the
Polish camps were brought to Mauthausen,
just like they were brought to other camps in
Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia.
So if this was not a camp intended primarily for
Jews, why go to the expense of building a gas
chamber, and then why go to the extra expense
of putting in real water pipes and real shower heads?
Why not just use fake shower heads and no pipes
like the "gas chamber" at Dachau?
Then, to top it all off, after going to all the trouble
and expense to build this "gas chamber" at
Mauthausen where there were virtually no Jews
to be put into it, why build another "gas chamber"
at Hartheim Castle, which is located just outside
Linz? Then why send inmates, not only from Dachau
which had a perfectly good "gas chamber", but also from
Mauthausen, which had a "gas chamber", to
Hartheim Castle for gassing.
Why do you think Mauthausen was a "killing center"
with a "gas chamber" when the whole purpose of
locating a camp there was to have slave laborers
to work in the quarry? Wouldn't that be defeating
the purpose of the camp?
Before Fred Leuchter went to Auschwitz-Birkenau,
he didn't know that the "death camp" there was also
a labor camp. It didn't take him long to figure out
that it would have been stupid to kill the laborers.
Remember that his trip to Birkenau was in 1988
when the black granite plaques there still said that
4 million people had been murdered at this
LABOR CAMP. It would have been even more stupid
to gas the laborers at Mauthausen which was set up
specifically to get granite for Hitler's planned
retirement city.
$hery1
>$hery1 derek_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>>>>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
>>
>>[..]
>>
>>>>The Mauthausen "gas chamber" looks exactly
>>>>like a shower room and has functional shower
>>>>heads, water pipes, and tiled walls.
>>>>There is no evidence in the room today that
>>>>it was ever anything but a shower room.
>>>>The alleged apparatus for introducing the
>>>>gas was removed. If it were still there,
>>>>visitors could examine it and form an opinion
>>>>on whether this room was ever a "gas chamber".
>>>>Now, do you get it? True Believers just have
>>>>to have faith that the room was once a
>>>>"gas chamber", although it is now a shower
>>>>room.
>>>
>>>The factual nature of historical events does
>>>not need to be proven
>>
>>Philly has faith.
>
>Gee look, Cheryl snips the end of a sentence.
>
>How dishonest. How typical.
Is there anything you won't snivel about,
Philly? Your assinine statement was the
only relevant morsel in your reams of blather.
You post one sentence that is vaguely related
to the subject at hand and 200 lines of
bullshite to divert attention away from the
fact that you don't know what the hell you're
ranting about. It's the same sort of tactic
employed by you when you ask the same
question over and over and over no matter
how many times it is answered.
You're a clown, deal with it.
Jeffrey G. Brown
wrote:
> You're a clown, deal with it.
You're a liar, SLB. Deal with it:
"Cheryl Nay", a frequent participant in this newsgroup better known to all as
the Lying Bitch, has developed an effective if gutless method of dealing with
the arguments presented to her: She simply lies about what the other fellow
said.
Several examples follow:
-------------------------
--- Original message: ---
From: buy...@interlacken.com (Lorrill Buyens)
Subject: Re: The jewish holocaust continues
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 06:32:29 GMT
Message-ID: <3a1ded06....@news.primenet.com>
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:35:15 GMT, Cheryl_Nay <chery...@my-deja.com>
died and went to heaven, and on their tombstone was carved:
>On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:39:12 -0000, "The Termite of Temptation"
><n...@telling.com> wrote:
>>"Cheryl_Nay" <chery...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>the Jews were murdered in the Holocaust.
>
>A whole lot more Christians died during WWII. Sadly jews
>believe jew deaths are important while the deaths of
>Christians are meaningless. Just ask any holohugging
>misery pimp - nizkor and AR is loaded with them. You
>don't see governments being swindled out of billions
>of dollars by Christians sniveling about all the
>Christians that died during WWII but you *do* see
>governments being swindled out of billions of dollars
>yearly by jews squawking about ovens, gas chambers, jew
>babies being skewered on bayonets by "nazis," and anything
>else that sounds sufficiently horrible.
Shouldn't you get your stereotypes straight, Chrissie-poo?
Tales of Germans spearing babies on bayonets were World
War *One* *American* atrocity stories...
--- Deliberate misquote from the lying bitch: ---
From: C.Nay <nay_s...@my-deja.com>
Subject: Lorrill Buyens = Pathetic Lemming
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:22:14 GMT
Message-ID: <901b6e$i7a$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 06:32:29 GMT, buy...@interlacken.com (Lorrill
Buyens) wrote:
[..]
>My dog likes Chris Carpenter better than he likes me!
-------------------------
--- Original message: ---
From: Buck Turgidson <deppi...@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Biased reporting
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:10:55 -0600
Message-ID: <3A19AF7E...@pop.mindspring.com>
Cheryl_Nay wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:43:03 -0600, Buck Turgidson
> <deppi...@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >The Liar David Michael wrote:
> ><big honkin' snip>
> >
> >What, exactly, does this have to do with Holocaust
> >revisionism?
>
> Typical 'hoaxer, waving off the death of a Palestinian
> child as meaningless.
Typical Chris Carpenter, warping a sentence beyond all reason.
--- Deliberate misquote from the lying bitch: ---
From: Cheryl_Nay <chery...@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: Biased reporting
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:00:56 GMT
Message-ID: <8vgu46$tgn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:10:55 -0600, Buck Turgidson
<deppi...@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
>Cheryl_Nay wrote:
>> Buck Turgidson <deppi...@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >The Liar David Michael wrote:
>> ><big honkin' snip>
>> >
>> > What, exactly, does this have to do with
>> > Holocaust revisionism?
>>
>> Typical 'hoaxer, waving off the death of a
>> Palestinian child as meaningless.
>
> Chris Carpenter owns my soul.
-------------------------
--- Original message: ---
From: Nele Abels-Ludwig <Ab...@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de>
Subject: Re: Translation of ausrotten circa 1930's
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:16:53 +0100
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.001216...@pcrz94.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>
On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, $hery1 wrote:
[...]
> Speaking English they quickly had their arses
> handed to them - so they quickly switched to
> babbling in German.
Come on Chris/Cheryl, we both know that you don't know German and try
to rely on others who don't German to defend an unsupportable argument
which for very good reasons is never mentioned amongst German
holocaust-deniers.
Who on earth do you think you are fooling?
Nele
--- Deliberate misquote from the lying bitch: ---
From: $hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com>
Subject: Nele Displays Idiocy
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:24:30 GMT
Message-ID: <91oqn6$onk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:16:53 +0100, Nele Abels-Ludwig
<Ab...@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de> wrote:
>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, $hery1 wrote:
>[...]
>> Speaking English they quickly had their arses
>> handed to them - so they quickly switched to
>> babbling in German.
>
>Chris Carpenter broke in my house and stole
>my authentic gas chamber!
-------------------------
-------------------------
As "Cheryl" has shown, fooling yourself into believing that you've won every
argument is easy when you lie to yourself and others about what was actually
said. It's no secret that the Holocaust deniers are, as a group, bereft of
intellectual or moral courage. Pathetic little "Cheryl" is simply the most
graphic illustration of that sad fact seen to date.
JGB
================================================================== =====
Jeffrey G. Brown jg_b...@my-deja.com
For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
Philip Mathews
>$hery1 derek_...@my-deja.com wrote:
Pointing out your dishonesty is not sniveling Cheryl. It paints you for what
you are.
>Your assinine statement was the
>only relevant morsel in your reams of blather.
>You post one sentence that is vaguely related
>to the subject at hand and 200 lines of
>bullshite to divert attention away from the
>fact that you don't know what the hell you're
>ranting about.
Typical rubbish of course.
The subject at hand, the subject of the newsgroup, is what you are running from
with increasing hysteria. For example:
Do you believe the Nazis attempted the genocide of European Jews during WWII,
succeeding in murdering approx. 6 million Jews by various means, including gas
chambers? Yes or no Cheryl.
$hery1
Holman) wrote:
>$hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
> >>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
>>
>> [..]
>>
>> >>The Mauthausen "gas chamber" looks
>> >>exactly like a shower room and has
>> >>functional shower heads, water pipes,
>> >>and tiled walls.
>
>So the Nazis would have fooled you, too.
>Like a shower room is exactly how it was
>supposed to look. People are usually
>eager to enter a shower room but tend to
>be somewhat reluctant to enter a gas
>chamber...
Yeah, the 'disguised showers' tricked all
these 'jews awaiting extermination' into
never asking "hey, what's the deal with
all those corpses being dragged out of
the showers and tossed onto those
gargantuan bonfires." Uh-huh. You're a
card, Eugene.
>> >>There is no evidence in the room
>> >>today that it was ever anything but
>> >>a shower room. The alleged
>> >>apparatus for introducing the gas
>> >>was removed. If it were still there,
>> >>visitors could examine it and form
>> >>an opinion on whether this room
>> >>was ever a "gas chamber". Now,
>> >>do you get it? True Believers just
>> >>have to have faith that the room
>> >>was once a "gas chamber",
>> >>although it is now a shower room.
>> >
>> >The factual nature of historical events
>> >does not need to be proven
>>
>> Philly has faith.
>>
>
>Historical evidence of various types provides
>abundant reason for concluding that the room
>was once used as a place for gassing people.
As long as one has lot's 'o faith.
Joseph Boegler
>
>On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:31:27 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>Holman) wrote:
>>$hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>> >>joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler) wrote:
>>>
>>> [..]
>>>
>>> >>The Mauthausen "gas chamber" looks
>>> >>exactly like a shower room and has
>>> >>functional shower heads, water pipes,
>>> >>and tiled walls.
>>
>>So the Nazis would have fooled you, too.
>>Like a shower room is exactly how it was
>>supposed to look. People are usually
>>eager to enter a shower room but tend to
>>be somewhat reluctant to enter a gas
>>chamber...
>
>Yeah, the 'disguised showers' tricked all
>these 'jews awaiting extermination' into
>never asking "hey, what's the deal with
>all those corpses being dragged out of
>the showers and tossed onto those
>gargantuan bonfires." Uh-huh. You're a
>card, Eugene.
The Jews all knew that the showers were
really gas chambers. Many of them thought
that the shower heads could dispense water
or gas, depending upon the whim of the Nazis.
There are numerous survivors who said that
they never knew whether gas or water was
going to come out of the shower nozzles.
There is a story which the museum at Theresienstadt
tells about a shipment of orphan children who were
brought FROM Auschwitz. When they were led to
the shower room upon arrival, they became
hysterical because they KNEW that the shower
rooms were really gas chambers. So what were
you saying about the Jews being fooled by the
gas chambers disguised as showers? Even the
little children knew all about the gas chambers.
Nicegoy
>From: $hery1 derek_...@my-deja.com
>Date: 12/24/00 3:03 PM E. Australia Standard Time
>Message-id: <924034$9fq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:31:27 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>Holman) wrote:
>>$hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>People are usually
>>eager to enter a shower room
Well what holds you back Philly?
Nicegoy
>From: joseph...@aol.comnojunk (Joseph Boegler)
>Date: 12/24/00 3:27 PM E. Australia Standard Time
>Message-id: <20001224002713...@ng-ct1.aol.com>
>
>There is a story which the museum at Theresienstadt
>tells about a shipment of orphan children
Yaawn! not Peter Pan again?
Philip Mathews
>nic...@aol.com (Nicegoy) wrote:
You're responding to Mr. Holman, moron.
Joseph Boegler
What is it in this sentence that you are questioning?
That children were sent to Theresienstadt? Or that
some of them were orphans?
Theresientstadt was the main camp for Jewish orphans.
There were also orphans at Buchenwald and a few at
Majdanek, but at Theresienstadt, there were large
buildings full of orphans. The beautiful building which
now houses the main museum at Theresienstadt was
used to house orphan boys when the camp was in
operation. An equally beautiful large building was used
as the barracks for orphan girls. There were several
other smaller barracks for children at Theresienstadt.
I mentioned some information which I read in the
exhibits at the museum. I realize that you don't believe
anything that I write because I am not one of the Chosen,
but here is a reference to orphan children at Theresienstadt
written by Ruth Elias in her book "Triumph of Hope" which
tells about orphan children thinking the showers were
gas chambers.
<begin quote>
One day I was ordered to pack up my things and go to
work in a kitchen outside the ghetto. I was disconsolate.
Where were they sending me? Why? And why without
Koni? (her husband) No one seemed to know or want to
tell me. Another parting - and then off into the unknown.
Those of us who had been given this new assignment were
taken to newly constructed wooden barracks outside the ghetto,
There we were told that a children's transport was
expected and that we who were experienced in the ways
of the ghetto were to perform essential services for
the new arrivals. Looking at the others who had come
with me, I saw that people had been chosen from each
of the service divisions. Franz Kafka's sister, OItilie, was
among the medical personnel. I was responsible for the
kitchen. Before we started to work, each of us was
given a thorough medical examination. I realized that
everyone except me was unmarried. Why was I, a married
woman, among them? There wasn't much time to ponder
this. The children were expected the next day, and
preparations had to be made.
Early the following morning Jakob Edelstein, head of the
Council of Elders, arrived to inspect the new barracks.
Although the members of his entourage didn't approve,
I explained my situation to him. He was surprised to hear
that a married woman had been picked for this job
without her husband and ordered that I be exchanged for
an unmarried prisoner. Overjoyed, I returned to the
ghetto.
Later that day the children - they were from Bialystok -
arrived. When they were asked to undress and take
showers, they refused, crying, screaming, and kicking.
None of the Theresienstadt staff could understand why
they were behaving this way; probably just childish
fantasizing, they thought. But these children, whose
parents had been sent to the gas chambers, understood
the incomprehensible: undressing and taking showers
meant death. Eventually they were forced to comply.
After a short time in the new barracks the children
and all the ghetto personnel who had been assigned to
work with them were sent east to be gassed. As I write
these words I am overcome with horror: Who had to give
up his life for mine?
<end quote>
Note that this excerpt from her book mentions orphans
arriving in Theresienstadt, but they were not assigned to
the orphan barracks there. Instead special temporary
barracks were erected for them outside the ghetto.
A special crew was assigned to take care of them, including
a celebrity, the sister of Franz Kafka. The head of the
Jewish Council of Elders in the camp personally supervised
the arrival of these orphans. Note that he was so
important that he had an "entourage". Each person in the
crew assigned to these children had to have a medical
exam. They didn't want anyone to pass on any disease
to these children. No Typhoid Marys allowed.
Bialystok is a town in Belarus (White Russia) which is very
close to Treblinka. A ghetto was set up there for the
Jews who were brought in from the many small
surrounding villages. When the ghetto was liquidated, the
people were sent to Auschwitz. Treblinka was already
closed by that time. These children had learned about showers
and gas chambers in Auschwitz where, as this author says,
their "parents had been sent to the gas chambers". So
they became hysterical when they were asked to enter
the showers.
However, I think the museum story about a shipment of
children who refused to enter the shower room was about
a DIFFERENT group of children because this happened
earlier. What the author doesn't tell about the Bialystok
children is that the reason they were given preferential
treatment is that they had been selected for exchange
for German nationals and POWs held in America. The
crew of people, who were chosen to provide special
services for them, were to accompany them to
Switzerland where they would be exchanged. According
to the Theresienstadt museum, the exhange deal fell
through and the children were sent, along with their
special crew, to Auschwitz instead.
So what was it again that you don't believe?
steve wolk
"Nicegoy", the Brainless Blunder from Down Under,
<nic...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001224040451...@ng-mm1.aol.com...
Try to keep up, Brainless. The post is from Mr. Holman.
Steve
Nicegoy
>From: "steve wolk" st...@erols.com
>Date: 12/25/00 5:05 AM E. Australia Standard Time
>Message-id: <925hc2$grv$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>
So what, the fact still remains it rules Philly out.... keep up Toucan, the
phrase is not exclusive.
Nicegoy
>From: phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews)
>Date: 12/25/00 12:25 AM E. Australia Standard Time
>Message-id: <20001224092551...@ng-cr1.aol.com>
>
>In >Message-id: <20001224040451...@ng-mm1.aol.com>
>
>>nic...@aol.com (Nicegoy) wrote:
>
>
>
>>>Subject: Those Tricky Nazi's
>>>From: $hery1 derek_...@my-deja.com
>>>Date: 12/24/00 3:03 PM E. Australia Standard Time
>>>Message-id: <924034$9fq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>>>
>>>On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:31:27 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>Holman) wrote:
>>>>$hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>>>phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>>
>>>People are usually
>>>>eager to enter a shower room
>>
>>Well what holds you back Philly?
>
>You're responding to Mr. Holman, moron.
>
>--
>Philip Mathews
Pure assumption on your part moron, I am not responding to anyone, I am posing
a question to you...moron.
Philip Mathews
>nic...@aol.com (Nicegoy) wrote:
>>Subject: Re: Those Tricky Nazi's
>>From: phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews)
>>Date: 12/25/00 12:25 AM E. Australia Standard Time
>>Message-id: <20001224092551...@ng-cr1.aol.com>
>>
>>In >Message-id: <20001224040451...@ng-mm1.aol.com>
>>
>>>nic...@aol.com (Nicegoy) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Subject: Those Tricky Nazi's
>>>>From: $hery1 derek_...@my-deja.com
>>>>Date: 12/24/00 3:03 PM E. Australia Standard Time
>>>>Message-id: <924034$9fq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:31:27 +0200, hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>>Holman) wrote:
>>>>>$hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>>>>phil...@aol.com (Philip Mathews) wrote:
>>>
>>>>People are usually
>>>>>eager to enter a shower room
>>>
>>>Well what holds you back Philly?
>>
>>You're responding to Mr. Holman, moron.
s
>
>Pure assumption on your part moron, I am not responding to anyone, I am
>posing
>a question to you...moron.
LOL! Try reading the chevrons, Ross.
steve wolk
"Nicegoy", the Brainless Wonder from Down Under,
<nic...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001224165754...@ng-fj1.aol.com...
Sure it is, Brainless. You just don't have a clue about how to use your
native language, being self-uneducated and all.
Steve
steve wolk
Do you think the Brainless Wonder from Down Under knows what a chevron
is?
Steve
$hery1
<jg_b...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>$hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> You're a clown, deal with it.
>
>You're a liar, SLB. Deal with it:
Proof? Nope.
>"Cheryl Nay", a frequent participant in this
>newsgroup better known to all as the Lying
>Bitch, has developed an effective if gutless
>method of dealing with the arguments presented
>to her: She simply lies about what the other
>fellow said.
>
>Several examples follow:
>
> -------------------------
> --- Original message: ---
>
>From: buy...@interlacken.com (Lorrill Buyens)
>Subject: Re: The jewish holocaust continues
>Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 06:32:29 GMT
>Message-ID: <3a1ded06....@news.primenet.com>
>
>Cheryl_Nay <chery...@my-deja.com>
Oh hell, now I have Scot Murphy *and* the Jeffyboob
doing Babblin' Andy impressions.
Babblin' Andy spammed the same message over
three hundred times. Scot Murphy has spammed
the same message over a hundred times. Will
Jeffyboob eclipse these marks? We can only hope.
>JGB
>
>============================================= =====
>Jeffrey G. Brown jg_b...@my-deja.com
>Choke on it, bitch! I hate you, Cheryl, you bitch! Liar! Liar!
>Choke on it, bitch! I hate you, Cheryl, you bitch! Liar! Liar!
>Choke on it, bitch! I hate you, Cheryl, you bitch! Liar! Liar!
> -The Jeffyboob throwing a tantrum in AR, 2000
- --
The Jeffyboob - My Biggest Fan:
"You worthless lying bitch"
<jg_brown-8C630F...@news.cis.dfn.de>
"Choke on it, bitch."
<jg_brown-EC50C9...@news.cis.dfn.de>
And who can forget:
"You've got _zero_ rights to express your
opinions"
<jg_brown-E2EEE5...@news.cis.dfn.de>
Buck Turgidson
steve wolk wrote:
He thinks it's a place to get gas.
Jeffrey G. Brown
wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:42:07 -0500, "Jeffrey G. Brown"
> <jg_b...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >$hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You're a clown, deal with it.
> >
> >You're a liar, SLB. Deal with it:
>
> Proof? Nope.
Proof? Yup. But this bitch snips proof and pretends it was never posted:
"Cheryl Nay", a frequent participant in this newsgroup better known to all as
the Lying Bitch, has developed an effective if gutless method of dealing with
the arguments presented to her: She simply lies about what the other fellow
said.
Several examples follow:
-------------------------
--- Original message: ---
From: buy...@interlacken.com (Lorrill Buyens)
Subject: Re: The jewish holocaust continues
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 06:32:29 GMT
Message-ID: <3a1ded06....@news.primenet.com>
[..]
-------------------------
--- Original message: ---
From: Buck Turgidson <deppi...@pop.mindspring.com>
Cheryl_Nay wrote:
-------------------------
--- Original message: ---
From: Nele Abels-Ludwig <Ab...@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de>
Nele
-------------------------
-------------------------
When the SLB isn't deliberately misquoting people, she simply makes claims about
their past statements that have no basis in fact:
From: $hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: 400 Tons Of jew Ash?
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:15:34 GMT
Message-ID: <91qpfe$9uj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
'My contribution was to point out the Jeffyboob's
assinine assertion that "ausrotten must mean
kill because of what happened."'
There is, in fact, no post in which I write what SLB attributes to me.
From: $hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com>
Subject: Jeffyboob: Coward
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:47:09 GMT
Message-ID: <91r2bq$i4v$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:37:32 -0500, "Jeffrey G. Brown"
<jg_b...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> nic...@aol.com (Nicegoy) wrote:
>>Have you sent Smooth his ticket yet Goof, you
>>lying forging little kike worm?
>
>no, I haven't.
So you admit to being a lying coward? After
all you did assert that you would send him
a ticket - and he did ask you to send it and
for your address.
There is, in fact, no post in which I made such an assertion.
From: $hery1 <derek_...@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: 400 Tons Of jew Ash?
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:15:34 GMT
Message-ID: <91qpfe$9uj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
'A month ago I pointed out that Daniel Karen made
the comment that he wanted to put Tom Moran in
a "gas chamber" and kill him...'
There is, in fact, no post in which Mr. Keren makes the statement that SLB
attributes to him.
-------------------------
-------------------------
As "Cheryl" has shown, fooling yourself into believing that you've won every
argument is easy when you lie to yourself and others about what was actually
said. It's no secret that the Holocaust deniers are, as a group, bereft of
intellectual or moral courage. Pathetic little "Cheryl" is simply the most
graphic illustration of that sad fact seen to date.
I'll make the same challenge to SLB Cheryl as I've made to others: Provide a
verifiable citation in which the the people you've accused of saying the things
you claim they've said actually do say those things. I will immediately and
permanently cease all posting to USenet.
SLB Cheryl, like all its gutless cohorts, will never find the courage to take
this challenge. It's a liar, and it knows it is a liar.
JGB
================================================================== =====
Jeffrey G. Brown jg_b...@my-deja.com
steve wolk
"Buck Turgidson" <deppi...@pop.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3A48F02E...@pop.mindspring.com...
No matter, then. He's always full of gas. With some B.O. thrown in. The
quiz for tonight:
A: Punch in the stomach; lock up the cold cuts; bright green chicken;
Brainless Wonder from Down Under
Q: Can you name a belly jolt, a deli bolt, a kelly polt, and a smelly dolt?
Steve
Buck Turgidson
steve wolk wrote:
ROFL!! You are still Da Man!
-- Dep