The Internet Anti-Fascist: Friday, 8 Jun 2001 -- 5:44 (#565)
Paul Kneisel
__________________________________________________________________________
The Internet Anti-Fascist: Friday, 8 June 2001
Vol. 5, Number 44 (#565)
__________________________________________________________________________
Action Alerts:
Anti-Nazi League, "The Nazis exploit the bitterness in Oldham: Wipe the
smile off Griffin's face"
Anti-Nazi League, "Turn anger on the real enemy"
Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting, "Boston Globe's Continued Hypocrisy on
Free Speech," 5 Jun 01
Web Sites of Interest:
The Outsiders: the Roma in Europe
Obituaries:
Reuters, "Anthony Quinn Dies at 86: 'Zorba' Actor Quinn Lived Life to
the Full," 3 Jun 01
Book/Movie Reviews:
Introduction to the FTP Supplements:
Reuters Financial, "Gypsies say plan Nazi crimes suit against IBM," 31
May 01
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ACTION ALERTS:
The Nazis exploit the bitterness in Oldham: Wipe the smile off Griffin's
face
Anti-Nazi League
The Nazi BNP's success at the election in Oldham horrified people. It got
6,552 votes (16.4 percent) in Oldham West, where it beat the Liberal
Democrats into fourth place, and 5,091 votes (11.2 percent) in Oldham East.
And it also picked up a significant vote in nearby Burnley-4,151 votes
(11.3 percent). The British National Party (BNP) also saved its deposits in
Barking and in Poplar in east London.
These results must send an urgent warning. The Nazis did not make a
national breakthrough. They stood in fewer seats in this election than in
1997.
The BNP and National Front (NF) contested 38 seats and got 49,669 votes.
The number of seats four years ago was 84, with 49,377 votes. But their
successes in particular areas show how the filthiest forces can suddenly
exploit the tremendous bitterness people feel at desperate social
conditions and at mainstream politicians. Politicians will condemn the BNP
but complacently claim that Oldham is exceptional.
There are some specific causes for the Nazi BNP's gains in Oldham. But the
underlying reason is that people see their lives getting worse and no one
in power listening to them. Most working class people in Oldham cannot
possibly identify with Oldham MP Micheal Meacher, who owns eight homes.
The Labour and Tory vote plummeted in Oldham West-along with the turnout.
That bitterness exists across Britain. It is concentrated in areas where
unemployment is high and wages low after two decades of New Labour and Tory
neglect.
The Nazis will take heart from Oldham. They will seek to copy the tactics
they have used there elsewhere. Those tactics have been to launch a
campaign of terror against Asian and black people in the hope of stirring
up the kind of "race war" the Nazis dream of. They hope to tear apart
multi-ethnic communities by creating a climate where black and white people
each fear they will be attacked by the other. They incite tension and then
claim to be "standing up for white people". The home of the Asian deputy
mayor of Oldham was firebombed in a racist attack during the BNP's
"election campaign".
Four white racists beat an Asian man, Asif Kayani, unconscious just two
days before the poll. The police in Oldham now say the Nazis were
responsible for the climate which led Asian youth to fight back against
racism two weeks ago. But the police have allowed the Nazis to organise.
And in April the media spread the story that a white pensioner had been the
victim of a "racist attack by Asians".
His family said the assault had nothing to do with racism. But the media
went into a frenzy, claiming there were "no-go areas for whites" in Oldham.
That fed the BNP. So did those sections of the media that treated them as
respectable politicians.
The Nazis also gained confidence from the Tories' anti-asylum rhetoric and
New Labour echoing it. That allowed the BNP to get the votes of a
substantial minority of whites. But the majority of whites did not vote for
the Nazis. And the vast bulk of those who did are not wedded to the Nazi
politics the BNP stands for but tries to hide.
This is key to pushing back the Nazis. They planned to march in Oldham this
Sunday. If the police let them get away with it, they will march again and
again to try to create more fear and harden up their
support.
That is why they have to be confronted by a united show of strength
from Asian, white and black people. That can rip aside their veil of
respectability and reveal their Nazi nature. So too will a concerted
campaign in workplaces and estates exposing what they stand for.
They are not only for attacks on black people. They are against trade
unions and the NHS. They are for big business. They want the kind of
barbaric society Hitler created. They can be stopped. But that means
organising now the people who are sickened by the Nazi vote.
- - - - -
Turn anger on the real enemy
Anti-Nazi League
The lower number of Nazi candidates is a sign of their failure to
build nationally from the bitterness with New Labour. But they have
responded by concentrating on a small number of areas where they have not
seriously tried to build previously. They have retreated in places where
they had put huge effort, and where they had met organised
opposition.
The NF got only 0.9 percent and 0.6 percent in seats around Margate in
Kent, where it has repeatedly marched against asylum seekers.
And the BNP has been pushed back in Tower Hamlets and South Newham in east
London. Its total vote and percentage share were down in the two
constituencies where they did best in 1997-Bethnal Green & Bow, and
Poplar & Canning Town. The Nazis won a council by-election in Tower
Hamlets in 1993. Racist attacks shot up.
It took a two-pronged campaign to drive them out of the seat in 1994 and
push them onto the defensive across the area. The first
requirement was a united campaign exposing what the Nazis stand for. The
Anti Nazi League mobilised white trade unionists and anti-racists alongside
Asian and black people in a sharp direct fight against the BNP.
It meant countering its propaganda, erasing racist graffiti, and
creating an anti-Nazi climate in workplaces, schools and estates.
Eventually it built the necessary forces to oppose the Nazis' marches and
activities. There has been ongoing anti-Nazi activity since. The other part
of the successful anti-Nazi fight was socialists and trade unionists
organising to defend and improve the conditions of working people, black
and white.
That was critical in providing an antidote to the despair the Nazis
feed off. Strategy There was a series of concerted campaigns around
housing, defending youth facilities and saving a vital community
centre. Socialists built those fightbacks, and they involved black and
white people. They showed that the Nazis had no answers to the
problems people faced, but united action by working people did.
Trade unionists, organising in their workplaces, were at the centre of both
building the anti-Nazi campaign and the fight to improve people's social
conditions.
That double strategy is what everyone appalled at the BNP's success in
Oldham and other areas needs to implement now.
- - - - -
Stop the Nazi NF marching in Oldham
Sunday 10 June
Assemble 1pm, Oldham Civic Centre, Rochdale Road
Called by the Anti Nazi League and supported by the CWU
Contact the ANL on 020 7924 0333 www.anl.org.uk
- - - - -
Boston Globe's Continued Hypocrisy on Free Speech
Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting
5 Jun 01
FAIR sent out an action alert on April 9 asking readers to contact the
Boston Globe about the paper's apparent hypocrisy. The Globe had written an
editorial (3/20/01) upholding the free-speech right of right-wing activist
David Horowitz to place a racist ad in campus newspapers attacking the idea
of slavery reparations. The paper told student editors and campus
activists: "Far more dangerous than offensive ideas is their censorship,
because censorship knows no ideology and will eventually muzzle the views
of the minorities as well."
But as columnists Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman pointed out ("Focus
on the Corporation," 4/3/01), the Globe itself recently refused to publish
an ad critical of the Staples office supply chain for using paper made from
old-growth forests. The environmental group that wanted to place the ad,
Forest Ethics, says it was told that the paper would not print an ad that
criticized Staples, a major Boston-based company, by name. The paper told
Mokhiber and Weissman that it was uncomfortable with the way the group
expressed its views.
Hundreds of activists sent messages to Boston Globe ombudsman Jack Thomas,
asking him to explain why his paper lectures student journalists about the
need to print any ad, no matter how offensive, while censoring an ad that
might hurt its commercial interests. The response from Thomas: total
silence.
Now the Globe is scolding students again about their insufficient regard
for the free speech rights of advertisers. On May 30, the paper ran an op-
ed by regular columnist Cathy Young taking campus feminists to task for
their protests against an ad from the right-wing Independent Women's Forum,
explicitly inspired by the Horowitz ad, that was
published in UCLA's paper.
Some students at the school criticized the paper for running the ad, which
claims to debunk "feminist myths" while referring to campus feminism as "a
kind of cult" promoted by "factually challenged professors." While Young,
whose own work was cited in the ad, described it as "factually impeccable,"
much of the ad's content is deeply misleading.
For example, it asserts that it's a myth that "one in four women in college
has been the victim of rape or attempted rape"-- a statistic based on a
National Institute of Mental Health study of sexual assaults from age 14.
(See Extra!, 11-12/93, 11-12/00.) The ad counterposes this with the number
of rapes that happen *on campus* and are reported to campus police--
obviously a fraction of all the rapes and attempted rapes college-aged
women have ever experienced.
Accusing the UCLA students of disdaining "intellectual openness," Young
wrote that "esteem for freedom of expression seems to be in equally short
supply." She said that other student paper's decisions whether or not to
run the ad would be an "important test" of whether the "free exchange of
ideas" is imperiled.
Of course, one could argue that student papers ought to publish such
intentionally provocative ads-- if only to prevent the advertisers from
achieving the free-speech martyrdom that they crave. But the Boston Globe
op-ed page is hardly the appropriate place for campus editors to receive
lessons on the "free exchange of ideas"-- not when the paper hasn't
explained why it doesn't seem to practice the openness to uncomfortable
advertisements that its editorials and op-ed writers preach.
ACTION: Please contact Boston Globe ombudsman Jack Thomas and remind him
that he has never addressed the hundreds of questions he has received about
his paper's apparent double standard regarding advertising acceptance. You
might also contact Globe editor Matthew Storin and ask him to ensure that
the ombudsman does his job of responding to complaints from the public.
CONTACT:
Matthew V. Storin, Editor
617-929-3049
mailto:sto...@globe.com
Jack Thomas, Ombudsman
617-929-3020
mailto:om...@globe.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEB SITES OF INTEREST:
The Outsiders: the Roma in Europe
Searchlight
<http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/stories/story_index.htm>
There is no group comparable to the Roma in terms of the persecution they
have faced throughout their long history, in almost every country that they
have settled. Yet their case has remained perpetually overlooked. A
widespread anti-Roma bias is one of Europe's most pressing, yet most
neglected, human rights issues. This negative imagery manifested itself
most clearly in the attempt at complete extermination of the Roma during
the Nazi period. But the vilification has not gone away. In parts of
Central and Eastern Europe (CEE), racism against the Roma has been on the
increase since the collapse of the Eastern bloc, with a shocking catalogue
of human rights abuses routinely taking place. But as the contributors to
this edition highlight, this is not a problem confined to CEE countries;
the problem is Europe-wide, and indeed worldwide. In the context of a move
towards greater European integration, we must also take a look closer to
home. The ongoing vilification of the Roma at the hands of the British
media, which fuels discrimination, and the attempts to deny asylum status
to the Romani people highlight our own refusal to recognise the suffering
that Roma face across the globe. It is hoped that this feature, by
focussing on anti-Romani racism, will educate people about a group that is
much maligned, yet little understood, and enable them to build on this base
to form a more positive framework to fight it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
OBITUARIES:
Anthony Quinn Dies at 86: 'Zorba' Actor Quinn Lived Life to the Full
Reuters
3 Jun 01
BOSTON -- Actor Anthony Quinn, who died on Sunday at age 86,
starred in more than 100 films and won two Oscars (news - web sites) in a
career that spanned nearly six decades, but the role that defined him in
the public mind was the earthy fun-loving character he played in the 1964
film "Zorba the Greek."
For Quinn, "Zorba" was far more than just a film role. "I am Zorba," Quinn
once said of the hero of the movie, a worldly wise Greek who lives life to
the fullest.
Like Zorba, Quinn's life was painted on a broad canvas, ranging from an
impoverished childhood in Mexico and Los Angeles to the pampered luxury of
a Hollywood star.
His worked as a shoe-shine boy, a fruit picker, an electrician, a cement
mixer, a dress cutter, a saxophone player and, for two years and 16 fights,
a professional boxer.
After considering careers as a priest and an architect, he entered films by
playing Indians in Westerns.
Although Quinn won two Academy Awards (news - web sites) for best
supporting actor, his "Zorba" went unrewarded. Yet it remained his most
memorable role, one he recreated on Broadway in 1984.
"Before I had to paint my hair white," he remarked of his second portrayal
of Zorba. "Now I'm just right."
Anthony Rudolph Oaxaca Quinn was born on April 21, 1915, in Chihuahua,
Mexico, where his half-Irish father Francisco (Frank) Quinn had married a
Mexican girl of Aztec Indian ancestry, Manuela, while fighting for
revolutionary leader Pancho Villa.
The family moved to El Paso, Texas, and three years later to Los Angeles in
search of work. After five years in the city Frank Quinn was killed in a
car accident.
Quinn was raised in a poor district of Los Angeles and never forgot his
past. He fought throughout his career for civil and trade union rights to
the point of being branded a communist during the McCarthy era in the
1950s.
"I have never been a Communist," the actor said in his autobiography. "I
was pro-labor for humanitarian reasons. I was anti-fascist and anti-Nazi
because they preached racial and nationalistic superiority."
As a teen-ager, Quinn underwent minor tongue surgery to improve his speech
and afterward took voice lessons at a Los Angeles drama school, paying the
fee by cleaning windows and floors. He began appearing in stage productions
at 18.
A BREAK FROM MAE WEST
Mae West gave Quinn his first big chance on stage in the play "Clean Beds,"
which she financed and produced. His part was a take-off of John Barrymore,
then an aging actor fading from the limelight.
As a result of the play, Quinn and Barrymore became acquainted and began a
close relationship. The two men, along with comedian W.C. Fields, writer
Gene Fowler and painter John Decker would get together at Barrymore's home
for alcoholic afternoons and recite Shakespeare.
Quinn's first screen role -- a 45-second appearance -- came in the film
"Parole" in 1936.
Quinn's talent flourished in dozens of films in which he depicted a wide
array of characters, usually with a full-blooded vitality.
He won an Oscar for best supporting actor in "Viva Zapata!", a film made in
1952 in which he depicted a Mexican revolutionary. He captured another best
supporting Oscar four years later for his portrayal of the French painter
Paul Gauguin in the movie "Lust for Life."
Quinn has also appeared in the title role of "Hunchback of Notre Dame"
(1956), as a prize fighter in "Requiem for a Heavyweight" (1963), an Arab
in "Lawrence of Arabia" (1962), a Greek in "Guns of Navarone" (1961) and
"Zorba the Greek" (1964), and an Italian strongman in "La Strada" (1954).
"To me, acting...(is) living," he once said. "I love to live, so I live. I
love to act, so I act. I gotta have vitality."
His passion for acting dimmed somewhat in the 1990s, and he told an
interviewer he would like to quit.
SOMETIMES ASHAMED OF ACTING
"I get ashamed of being an actor," he said. "It's the most embarrassing
profession in the world. You have to face rejection constantly and you have
to have skin like a rhinoceros."
Quinn married Iolanda Addolori, an Italian teacher who was a wardrobe
mistress on "La Strada," in 1966 after his first marriage, to Katherine De
Mille, daughter of director Cecil B. De Mille, ended in divorce.
He had two sons and three daughters by his first marriage, but his eldest
son, Christopher, drowned at the age of 3 in W.C. Fields' swimming pool. He
had another two sons by Addolori before they married, and she gave birth to
a third shortly after the wedding.
Addolori and Quinn finalized a bitter divorce in 1997. He subsequently
married Kathy Benvin, then 35.
He is the father of nine sons and four daughters by his three wives and
three mistresses.
Quinn continued to work into the 1990s. He played a Spanish tycoon opposite
Kevin Costner in the movie "Revenge" (1990) and a spirit in love with Bo
Derek in "Ghosts Can't Do It" (1990).
He starred alongside Arnold Schwarzenegger in "Last Action Hero" (1993) and
opposite Keanu Reeves in "A Walk in the Clouds" (1995). More recently he
appeared in the 1999 Brazilian (news - web sites) film "Oriundi," about an
Italian immigrant family living in Brazil, and opposite Sylvester Stallone
and Madeleine Stowe in "Avenging Angelo" (2001), about a murdered Mafia
chieftain.
Along the way Quinn amassed an estate valued in the hundreds of millions of
dollars, including an art collection that boasted a Picasso.
He became a noted impressionist painter and sculptor in his own right, and
actively promoted his work.
A self-taught man, Quinn believed a person could lead a successful life
only if he used every single day for self-betterment. During a typical day
he swam and jogged, then spent time painting or sculpting.
"I'm like a guy playing a horn," he once said. "There's a note I hear
inside me, but I can't play it yet. Some day I'm going to hit that note."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
INTRODUCTION TO THE FTP SUPPLEMENTS:
Gypsies say plan Nazi crimes suit against IBM
Reuters Financial
31 May 01
GENEV -- Gypsy groups plan to file a lawsuit against computer giant IBM
alleging its machines helped Hitler identify and send 600,000 members of
the minority to their death in the Holocaust, a lawyer said on Thursday.
In a statement, Henri-Philippe Sambuc said the Gypsy International
Recognition and Compensation Action (GIRCA) would file a civil suit in
Geneva against International Business Machine Corp (NYSE:IBM - news) for
"complicity in crimes against humanity".
Switzerland was neutral during World War Two and the statement said that
Geneva was the company's administrative centre for handling business with
Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945, it said.
In February, investigator Edwin Black published a book charging that IBM's
Hollerith tabulating machinery, the mainframe computer of its era, was
instrumental in helping Hitler systematically identify and select Holocaust
victims.
The technology was a "technical tool of the first importance as well as for
the management of the war efforts as for the administrative operations of
industrial destruction of the Jewish and Gypsy populations," the statement
said.
"GIRCA has thus decided to launch an action against IBM," it said, adding
that a news conference had been called for June 6 to give more details.
Ian Colley, a spokesman for IBM Europe in Paris told Reuters that he had no
knowledge of the suit and could not comment.
The GIRCA website said that IBM had not acknowledged receipt of the group's
letter of April 14 advising it of the complaint.
IBM, whose headquarters are in Armonk, New York, has contributed $3 million
to a $5 billion German holocaust reparations fund which compensates victims
of slavery and forced labour during the Nazi era. Roma are eligible for
compensation.
The contribution led U.S. lawyers to drop a suit in the United States in
March in which it alleged the company's German units had cooperated with
the Third Reich.
But Sambuc told Reuters that the GIRCA suit was different.
"The basis of our suit is not forced labour, it is the destruction of
600,000 gypsies during the Nazi period," he said, adding that the case
would take several months to prepare.
(Geneva Newsroom, tel +41 22 733 3831, fax +41 22 734 8760)
- - - - -
The Internet Anti-Fascist: Thursday, 7 June 2001
FTP Supplement #183 (#564): News and Analysis On the Roma -- Part 4
0) Previous supplements on the Roma
1) BBC, "Three Romas killed in Kosovo," 3 Aug 00
2) Reuters, "Mine Kills Three Romanies Gypsies, Injures One In Kosovo,"
3 Aug 00
3) BBC Talking Point, "Should Europe's Gypsies assimilate?," 8 Aug 00
4) New York Times (editorial), "Gypsies and the Holocaust," 14 Aug 00
5) Reuters, "U.N. Report: Gypsies Repressed, Attacked in Europe," 16 Aug 00
6) BBC, "UN denounces persecution of Roma," 17 Aug 00
7) Martina Pisárová (Slovak Spectator), "Romany Girls Kidnapped, Sold
Abroad,"
18 Aug 00
<ftp://ftp.nyct.net/pub/users/tallpaul/publish/tinaf/tinaf564.txt>
* * * * *
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only.
__________________________________________________________________________
FASCISM:
We have no ethical right to forgive, no historical right to forget.
(No permission required for noncommercial reproduction)
- - - - -
back issues archived via:
<ftp://ftp.nyct.net/pub/users/tallpaul/publish/tinaf/>
Daedra Morrighan
> __________________________________________________________________________
>
> The Internet Anti-Fascist: Friday, 8 June 2001
> Vol. 5, Number 44 (#565)
> __________________________________________________________________________
In an earlier thread Paul Kneisel <tall...@nyct.net> wrote in message news:<8WsgO5JrSXuel3...@4ax.com>...
>
> 21 messages on the "forum" and about half are from Brandon Orr himself. The
> other half are -- one strongly suspects -- from Brandon Orr.
>
> The horror that somebody would lie about this to such a fine truthful
> pseudo-female just boggles the imagination.
I once thought that Kneisel might be something of a threat. Now I
think he is more of a joke.
On his website, Paul Kneisel describes my organization, Black
Vanguard, as a "group."[1] Further, he writes that it is possible that
I have sufficient forces to back up all my objectives.[2]
Now, the idiot is claiming that I wrote all the messages that are on
my forum. (In fact, the "forum" he is speaking of was just started and
most of the messages so far are by people other than myself). He is
claiming that I make use of "sock puppets."
One can conclude that Kneisel is, as communist activists A.G. Phillbin
and Louis Proyect have described him, insane. On one hand, he claims
that my organization is a group with multiple members; on the other,
he claims that I have a need for sock puppets. How can it be that I
have a "group," and at the same time, don't have one? Why can't he
make up his mind? The proper answer is that he doesn't have a healthy
mind to begin with.
1. <http://www.anti-fascism.org/special/bv/pk%20-%20fascism%20as%20necro%20-%20May%2024.html>
2. <http://www.anti-fascism.org/special/bv/pk%20-%20orr%20-waist%20deep.html>
-- Daedra Morrighan
Founder: Black Vanguard
<http://www.pornonationalist.ws>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"As soon as society succeeds in abolishing the empirical essence of
Judaism, which is the huckster and the conditions that produce him,
the Jew will become impossible, because his consciousness will no
longer have a corresponding object."
- Karl Marx
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Vanguard Discussion Forums:
<http://www.coolboard.com/myboards.cfm?oid=69719501014586>
"A nice place on the 'Net for radical advocates of sexual freedom and
social justice and those interested to discuss relevant topics. Free
speech is respected here and only spam will be deleted."
****
Sexualist2: a Black Vanguard E-Group
To learn about the sexualist2 group, please visit
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sexualist2>
****
Brian Blank
Morrighan) wrote:
>Paul Kneisel <tall...@nyct.net> wrote in message news:<dnYlO1VyU6sDUd...@4ax.com>...
>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> The Internet Anti-Fascist: Friday, 8 June 2001
>> Vol. 5, Number 44 (#565)
>> __________________________________________________________________________
>
>In an earlier thread Paul Kneisel <tall...@nyct.net> wrote in message news:<8WsgO5JrSXuel3...@4ax.com>...
>>
>> 21 messages on the "forum" and about half are from Brandon Orr himself. The
>> other half are -- one strongly suspects -- from Brandon Orr.
>>
>> The horror that somebody would lie about this to such a fine truthful
>> pseudo-female just boggles the imagination.
>
>I once thought that Kneisel might be something of a threat. Now I
>think he is more of a joke.
>
>On his website, Paul Kneisel describes my organization, Black
>Vanguard, as a "group."[1] Further, he writes that it is possible that
>I have sufficient forces to back up all my objectives.[2]
Hello, can't resist telling lies can you?
<quote>It is possible that Orr has sufficient forces to back up his
declared thuggery.<end quote>
And here we see another quote <quote> The fascist Brandon Orr, via
various sock puppets, writes "My organization [Pornonationalist
Vanguard / Black Vanguard] and I are heating up in our campaign to
counter, thwart, and defeat Paul Kneisel's deceptive propaganda. We
are making use of Usenet, Internet, mailing lists, flyers, leaflets,
'planting,' snooping, subversion, and all other means at our disposal
to smash the hegemony that Kneisel and other Zionists currently
enjoy."<end quote>
Now this is in fact a quote from a post made by Brandon/Daedra thus:
From: national_anarchist@ email.com (Ministry of Propaganda)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, alt.politics.communism,
alt.politics.socialism.mao, alt.politics.radical.left,
alt.politics.socialism, alt.politics.socialism.democratic,
alt.politics.socialism.trotsky
Subject: Re: Paul "ADL" Kneisel and the Techniques of Fascist
Agitation
Date: 21 May 2001 14:03:37 -0700
So, this is what we have. Daedra/Brandon posts a vicious post against
Kneisel. Kneisel reproduces it to show what sort of an individual (a
vicious thug) posted it, and points out that probably the thug has
sufficient resources to carry out his thuggery.
Daedra lies as usual.
Incidentally, try doing a search for Black Vanguard via Google,
fascinating. One finds Black Vanguard at blackvanguard.com but this
seems to have no connection to Daedra's "organization." Nor do any of
the other 122 hits that one gets by conducting the search.
More of Daedra's lies?
Regards,
Brian Blank
Daedra Morrighan
>
>On 11 Jun 2001 21:59:12 -0700, vang...@antisocial.com (Daedra
>Morrighan) wrote:
>
>>Paul Kneisel <tall...@nyct.net> wrote in message news:<dnYlO1VyU6sDUd...@4ax.com>...
>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> The Internet Anti-Fascist: Friday, 8 June 2001
>>> Vol. 5, Number 44 (#565)
>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>In an earlier thread Paul Kneisel <tall...@nyct.net> wrote in message news:<8WsgO5JrSXuel3...@4ax.com>...
>>>
>>> 21 messages on the "forum" and about half are from Brandon Orr himself. The
>>> other half are -- one strongly suspects -- from Brandon Orr.
>>>
>>> The horror that somebody would lie about this to such a fine truthful
>>> pseudo-female just boggles the imagination.
>>
>>I once thought that Kneisel might be something of a threat. Now I
>>think he is more of a joke.
>>
>>On his website, Paul Kneisel describes my organization, Black
>>Vanguard, as a "group."[1] Further, he writes that it is possible that
>>I have sufficient forces to back up all my objectives.[2]
>Hello, can't resist telling lies can you?
He repeatedly refers to my organization as a "group." I didn't tell any lie
whatsoever.
You put organization in quotation marks, but Kneisel refers to it as a group,
and says that may have sufficient forces to back up what he calls my "declared
thuggery."
By the way, search for 'pornonationalist' and you'll get our website. The
official name of our organization was recently changed.
Are you illiterate? If not, then admit that "group" refers to just that. It does
not refer to one person. I have a group, and Kneisel admitted it. Like you, he
is powerless to stop us.
Brian Blank
<nos...@newsranger.com> wrote:
>In article <kfcbitg3tlg39l827...@4ax.com>, Brian Blank says...
>>
>>On 11 Jun 2001 21:59:12 -0700, vang...@antisocial.com (Daedra
>>Morrighan) wrote:
>>
>>>Paul Kneisel <tall...@nyct.net> wrote in message news:<dnYlO1VyU6sDUd...@4ax.com>...
>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> The Internet Anti-Fascist: Friday, 8 June 2001
>>>> Vol. 5, Number 44 (#565)
>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>>In an earlier thread Paul Kneisel <tall...@nyct.net> wrote in message news:<8WsgO5JrSXuel3...@4ax.com>...
>>>>
>>>> 21 messages on the "forum" and about half are from Brandon Orr himself. The
>>>> other half are -- one strongly suspects -- from Brandon Orr.
>>>>
>>>> The horror that somebody would lie about this to such a fine truthful
>>>> pseudo-female just boggles the imagination.
>>>
>>>I once thought that Kneisel might be something of a threat. Now I
>>>think he is more of a joke.
>>>
>>>On his website, Paul Kneisel describes my organization, Black
>>>Vanguard, as a "group."[1] Further, he writes that it is possible that
>>>I have sufficient forces to back up all my objectives.[2]
>>Hello, can't resist telling lies can you?
>
>He repeatedly refers to my organization as a "group." I didn't tell any lie
>whatsoever.
One referral only.
The word group does not appear on the same page as the quotation about
declared thuggery. You are a liar.
>
>By the way, search for 'pornonationalist' and you'll get our website. The
>official name of our organization was recently changed.
Official name? Where is it registered to become official?
>
>Are you illiterate? If not, then admit that "group" refers to just that. It does
>not refer to one person. I have a group, and Kneisel admitted it. Like you, he
>is powerless to stop us.
Chortle. A group may be any number above 1. Powerless to stop you, it
is to laugh. You are the resident joke in alt.revionism and probably
in the other newsgroups that you posted to.
Regards,
Brian Blank
Daedra Morrighan
>
>On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:54:01 GMT, Daedra Morrighan
><nos...@newsranger.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <kfcbitg3tlg39l827...@4ax.com>, Brian Blank says...
>>>
>>>On 11 Jun 2001 21:59:12 -0700, vang...@antisocial.com (Daedra
>>>Morrighan) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Paul Kneisel <tall...@nyct.net> wrote in message news:<dnYlO1VyU6sDUd...@4ax.com>...
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> The Internet Anti-Fascist: Friday, 8 June 2001
>>>>> Vol. 5, Number 44 (#565)
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>In an earlier thread Paul Kneisel <tall...@nyct.net> wrote in message news:<8WsgO5JrSXuel3...@4ax.com>...
>>>>>
>>>>> 21 messages on the "forum" and about half are from Brandon Orr himself. The
>>>>> other half are -- one strongly suspects -- from Brandon Orr.
>>>>>
>>>>> The horror that somebody would lie about this to such a fine truthful
>>>>> pseudo-female just boggles the imagination.
>>>>
>>>>I once thought that Kneisel might be something of a threat. Now I
>>>>think he is more of a joke.
>>>>
>>>>On his website, Paul Kneisel describes my organization, Black
>>>>Vanguard, as a "group."[1] Further, he writes that it is possible that
>>>>I have sufficient forces to back up all my objectives.[2]
>>>Hello, can't resist telling lies can you?
>>
>>He repeatedly refers to my organization as a "group." I didn't tell any lie
>>whatsoever.
>One referral only.
Nope. In every report he's written on me. Look at his site, anti-fascism.org; it
has a special section on my group.
>>
>>><quote>It is possible that Orr has sufficient forces to back up his
>>>declared thuggery.<end quote>
>>
>>Are you illiterate? If not, then admit that "group" refers to just that. It does
>>not refer to one person. I have a group, and Kneisel admitted it. Like you, he
>>is powerless to stop us.
>You are the resident joke in alt.revionism
What is alt.revionism you illiterate jackass?
and probably
>in the other newsgroups that you posted to.
Meaningless bravado. I am not a "joke" anywhere. If I were, people wouldn't say
things like this to me and about me:
Rob Coats, a very respected commentator who sometimes posts on Usenet,
regards my writing talent as "profound:"
<begin>
On 5 May 2001 15:50:27 -0700, Daedra Morrighan
<vang...@antisocial.com> wrote:
<begin nomination>
>The 'morality' of religious fanatics is no more sacred to a thinking
person than >are any of their printed idols. <end
nomination>
<end nomination>
Just in case no-one else has nominated this. I am nominating it for
its simple profound nature :)
Seconds?
<end>
Source:
From: Rob Coats (rcoats[@]iinet[.]net[.]au)
Subject: AQOTM nomination, WAS( Re: "Question #184"
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Date: 2001-05-05 18:40:22 PST
According to chib...@earthlink.net, one of the most popular regulars
in alt.atheism, I am "an extremely interesting,
well-informed individual."
Source:
From: chibiabos (chib...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: AQOTM nomination, WAS( Re: "Question #184"
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Date: 2001-05-07 11:49:40 PST
Rose Stark, in alt.native, referred to my writing as "obviously well
versed" and "passionate."
Source:
From: Rose Stark (rico...@iprimus.com.au)
Subject: Re: REPOST: Re: The Holocaust Against Native American Peoples
Newsgroups: alt.native, alt.revisionism, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.palestine, alt.history
Date: 2001-06-06 05:24:15 PST
Ath...@home.com, referred to my writings as "well-written."
Source:
From: ath...@home.com (ath...@home.com)
Subject: Re: "Question #184"
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Date: 2001-05-04 12:32:25 PST
di5p0...@hotmail.com referred to my writing as "eloquent."
Source:
From: Rev. WarFrost (di5p0...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Report from Seattle Nigger Violence
Newsgroups: alt.satanism, alt.flame.jesus.christ,
alt.politics.democrats.d
Date: 2001-03-03 01:40:08 PST
Ci...@hotmail.com, after she reviewed my website, noted that it
"looked professional" and was interesting.
Source:
From: Circe (Ci...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: The New and True Alternative
Newsgroups: alt.activism.children, alt.atheism, alt.satanism
View complete thread (25 articles)
Date: 2000/07/07
Paul Kneisel noted that my organization exists and has multiple
members:
<http://www.anti-fascism.org/special/bv/pk%20-%20fascism%20as%20necro%20-%20May%2024.html>
He also noted that it is possible that I have "sufficient forces" to
back up all my objectives:
<http://www.anti-fascism.org/special/bv/pk%20-%20orr%20-waist%20deep.html>
The following is a sample of emails I have received:
"Daedra you are a born orator and writer. Your site is masterfully
done. I can say I agree with your Movement on most points
so far and the material made for most interesting reading." - Marcus
(rawdo...@prodigy.net)
"Eloquent; interesting ideas!" - mountai...@yahoo.com
"I like your writing style. Not only that, you really are a
Promethean personality, (see: Myers-Briggs type theory), like me,
which I to some extent find endearing." - here...@bresnanlink.net
"I am very impressed with your page and am interested in knowing more
about the movement. I have considered the WcOc
but now find myself more in agreement with you. I agree that we must
not only reject the Judaic religions, we must reject their
slave morality as well. I look forward to correspondence and possibly
more." - strike_...@hotmail.com
Very interesting, and I will view it more often. Keep up the good
work.
- tont...@hotmail.com
Some interesting ideas (especially childrens' sexual rights and the
eradication of cults) -
submi...@netcourrier.com
Wonderful page. - carna...@hotmail.com
This is one of the most excellent websites I have ever ran across on
the Internet. I bookmarked it.,,, Please add me to your
mailing list. -
aphrod...@juno.com
Those who oppose me are usually either idiots or trolls. Take "Dr."
Ewan Jackson for example.
As T. Epstein put it, "Ewan is just a kid from Australia who enjoys
trolling usentet for reactions. ... Oh and Morrighan is right,
Ewan isn't a communist either."
Source:
Brian Blank
<nos...@newsranger.com> wrote:
Feed that ego, feed it good.
>
>>>
>>>><quote>It is possible that Orr has sufficient forces to back up his
>>>>declared thuggery.<end quote>
>
>>>
>>>Are you illiterate? If not, then admit that "group" refers to just that. It does
>>>not refer to one person. I have a group, and Kneisel admitted it. Like you, he
>>>is powerless to stop us.
>>You are the resident joke in alt.revionism
>
>What is alt.revionism you illiterate jackass?
It's a typo as you know, it is alt.revisionism.
>
>and probably
>>in the other newsgroups that you posted to.
>
>Meaningless bravado. I am not a "joke" anywhere. If I were, people wouldn't say
>things like this to me and about me:
Hmm, you accuse me of being illiterate, I don't think that you know
the meaning of the word bravado. Unless of course you are saying that
you are threatening me? You are a joke, and a cowardly one. That is
why you refuse to answer the very simple question that I have posed to
you so many times in the post, i.e. produce the evidence that the
State of Israel is responsible for the murder of "hundreds of
thousands" of Palestinian children. Your continual refusal to answer
that question reveals your bigotry and your lies.
>
>Rob Coats, a very respected commentator who sometimes posts on Usenet,
>regards my writing talent as "profound:"
What does that have to do with anything other than the need to feed
your ego? Still it is your usual canned introduction to more lies.
>
><begin>
>
>On 5 May 2001 15:50:27 -0700, Daedra Morrighan
><vang...@antisocial.com> wrote:
>
><begin nomination>
>>The 'morality' of religious fanatics is no more sacred to a thinking
>person than >are any of their printed idols. <end
>nomination>
><end nomination>
>
>Just in case no-one else has nominated this. I am nominating it for
>its simple profound nature :)
>
>Seconds?
>
><end>
>
>Source:
>From: Rob Coats (rcoats[@]iinet[.]net[.]au)
>Subject: AQOTM nomination, WAS( Re: "Question #184"
>Newsgroups: alt.atheism
>Date: 2001-05-05 18:40:22 PST
>
>According to chib...@earthlink.net, one of the most popular regulars
>in alt.atheism, I am "an extremely interesting,
>well-informed individual."
She also said the following: "Daedra is no slouch, but she rubs a lot
of people here the wrong way, which is too bad considering her obvious
talent and intelligence." And this "There is, however, something very
wrong with condemning an entire race of people because some of them
are not to your liking."
And the paragraph containing your quote above was actually "You're an
extremely interesting, well-informed individual. The pornonationalist
vanguard schtick was a little hard to swallow sometimes, that's all."
Kind of puts a different spin on things doesn't it?
>
>Source:
>From: chibiabos (chib...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net)
>Subject: Re: AQOTM nomination, WAS( Re: "Question #184"
>Newsgroups: alt.atheism
>Date: 2001-05-07 11:49:40 PST
>
>Rose Stark, in alt.native, referred to my writing as "obviously well
>versed" and "passionate."
But not in the same sentence. In fact she did not describe your
writing as passionate at all (she described you as being obviously
passionate). You are a liar.
>
>Source:
>From: Rose Stark (rico...@iprimus.com.au)
>Subject: Re: REPOST: Re: The Holocaust Against Native American Peoples
>Newsgroups: alt.native, alt.revisionism, soc.culture.jewish,
>soc.culture.palestine, alt.history
>Date: 2001-06-06 05:24:15 PST
>
>Ath...@home.com, referred to my writings as "well-written."
Another lie.
The quote was: "Well written post. Please define "unrestricted
negative." <I'm unfamiliar with the term>
Thanks."
>
>Source:
>From: ath...@home.com (ath...@home.com)
>Subject: Re: "Question #184"
>Newsgroups: alt.atheism
>Date: 2001-05-04 12:32:25 PST
>
>di5p0...@hotmail.com referred to my writing as "eloquent."
Another lie.
The actual quote is "Very flowery, eloquent rhetoric, but rhetorical
nonetheless.
Explain to me how you think allowing adults to freely engage in sex
with children could improve society as a whole, rather than simply
serving your desires. Your views won't change my stance any more than
mine will change yours; but I might believe you're honestly more
interested in what our posterity enjoys tomorrow than what your
posterior enjoys today."
In the same post he also said: "Of course not; nor is having sex with
young boys patently NOT exploitation simply because NAMBLA says it
isn't. The AFA - like all such organizations - exists to advance and
support issues, not objectivity; and as an atheist with Satanic
leanings, they'd probably consider me just as much an evil
motherfucker as you."
So actually he describes you as a "motherfucker." Most complimentary.
>
>Source:
>From: Rev. WarFrost (di5p0...@hotmail.com)
>Subject: Re: Report from Seattle Nigger Violence
>Newsgroups: alt.satanism, alt.flame.jesus.christ,
>alt.politics.democrats.d
>Date: 2001-03-03 01:40:08 PST
>
>Ci...@hotmail.com, after she reviewed my website, noted that it
>"looked professional" and was interesting.
Indeed, her post was "Daedra, I liked your website. I thought it
looked professional.I didn't see any swatstiksa though? So I don't
know where that came from.I liked the way you did the letters at the
beiginning of paragraphs.Very Nice!"
What an intellect, such command of the English Language!
>
>Source:
>From: Circe (Ci...@hotmail.com)
>Subject: Re: The New and True Alternative
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.children, alt.atheism, alt.satanism
>View complete thread (25 articles)
>Date: 2000/07/07
>
>Paul Kneisel noted that my organization exists and has multiple
>members:
>
><http://www.anti-fascism.org/special/bv/pk%20-%20fascism%20as%20necro%20-%20May%2024.html>
>
>He also noted that it is possible that I have "sufficient forces" to
>back up all my objectives:
But he did not say that. He said "back up your thuggery." Unless of
course thuggery is your objective. Is it?
>
><http://www.anti-fascism.org/special/bv/pk%20-%20orr%20-waist%20deep.html>
>
>The following is a sample of emails I have received:
Who the hell cares? You feel the need to be loved?
>
>"Daedra you are a born orator and writer. Your site is masterfully
>done. I can say I agree with your Movement on most points
>so far and the material made for most interesting reading." - Marcus
>(rawdo...@prodigy.net)
>
>"Eloquent; interesting ideas!" - mountai...@yahoo.com
>
>"I like your writing style. Not only that, you really are a
>Promethean personality, (see: Myers-Briggs type theory), like me,
>which I to some extent find endearing." - here...@bresnanlink.net
>
>"I am very impressed with your page and am interested in knowing more
>about the movement. I have considered the WcOc
>but now find myself more in agreement with you. I agree that we must
>not only reject the Judaic religions, we must reject their
>slave morality as well. I look forward to correspondence and possibly
>more." - strike_...@hotmail.com
Support from a Nazi. How proud you must be.
>
>Very interesting, and I will view it more often. Keep up the good
>work.
>- tont...@hotmail.com
>
>Some interesting ideas (especially childrens' sexual rights and the
>eradication of cults) -
>submi...@netcourrier.com
Great e-mail address.
>
>Wonderful page. - carna...@hotmail.com
And yet another.
>
>This is one of the most excellent websites I have ever ran across on
>the Internet. I bookmarked it.,,, Please add me to your
>mailing list. -
>aphrod...@juno.com
>
>Those who oppose me are usually either idiots or trolls. Take "Dr."
>Ewan Jackson for example.
Oppose you? You don't understand the meaning of the word, oppose, do
you. Let me see, you don't have the courage to answer questions. You
are a liar, you are a forger, you are a bigot and you are a
pornographer. What is there to oppose? You are a joke. You are a
child, throwing childish tantrums and screaming "look at me, look at
me, I'm wonderful, people say I'm wonderful." Only trouble is that, as
you yourself have shown above, they don't think that you are
wonderful.
>
>As T. Epstein put it, "Ewan is just a kid from Australia who enjoys
>trolling usentet for reactions. ... Oh and Morrighan is right,
>Ewan isn't a communist either."
What makes you think that anybody cares what one poster says about
another?
Sorry, forgot that you don't think.
And this is the thread in which Epstein also says "Hey Daedra,
Didn't you say you "plonked" me a while ago? What happened?"
Seems like you two have a high regard for one another.
It is also the thread where Sara Salzman said
"In article <EUuT6.1370$bA3....@www.newsranger.com>, Daedra
Morrighan
<nos...@newsranger.com> wrote:
[a bunch of political drivel mixed with Daedra's raging paranoia]
Please explain why you have posted this to alt.revisionism. It has
absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of Holocaust revisionism,
and is merely a continuation of your combination of mudslinging and
whining about other people doing the same to you.
Please redirect further postings to alt.whining.morons
Thank you,
Sara Salzman"
She obviously thinks highly of you.
So in your own inimitable threatening manner you responded by the
following "What a jerk you are!! I had left you alone, because I
thought you were going to quit bothering me. Now, expect my campaign
against you to be started up again, and at 5000% the intensity...."
This bought the following response from Dr. Andrew Mathis
"I think Sara is truly terrified now that some 22-year-old sexually
perverse fringe lunatic is going to "campaign" against her. Do you
think you have the slightest amount of credibility, shit-eater?"
Another poster here who thinks that you are wonderful and your
postings are profound <Grin>.
Like I said above. You are a joke. You are a pathetic, whining child,
puffed up with your self-importance and a liar, a bigot, a forger and
a pornographer.
I'll believe that others think highly of you or are scared of you
when they tell me so, or post it in the newsgroups. Until then, I
shall assume that your idea of a compliment is to be described as an
"evil motherfucker."
Regards,
Brian Blank