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Milton Kleim's "On Tactics And Strategy for USENET

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Cecelia A Clancy

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Sep 20, 1995, 3:00:00 AM9/20/95
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Milton Kleim is a very dedicated American neo-Nazi. (He is the same
person who sent me the e-mail that I have told some of you about in
another post to certain newsgroups - the e-mail in which he tells me: "I
want you and your Jewish brethren to go to Jewland."

In alt.revisionism, Kleim has even written about rounding up people who
the neo-Nazis consider to be enemies, put them on trial for "crimes
against the Aryan race," and execute the ones who are found guilty if and
when the neo-Nazis manage to seize power.

Check the Nizkor website for more about Milton Kleim. The Nizkor Project
can be accessed with <http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>.

Despite the fact that Kleim has specifically instructed his fellow "Aryan
activists" that "under no circumstances is this work to be posted or
distributed publicly without explicit permission from the author" (see his
footer at the bottom), Reuben Logsdon, one of his fellow "Aryan activists"
has already made it publicly available, on his website. It can be
found at <http://www.io.com/~rlogsdon/misc-milt.html>.

Also note in the footer at that Kleim claims that he holds a copyright to
this work. So if her really does have a copyright, I am violating his
copyright by posting this in these groups (even though one of his fellow
"Aryan activists" has already spilled the beans to the general public).

I have decided that the fact that Kleim advocates net-abuse and advises
his fellow "Aryan activists" to disregard the rules of the net and
describes USENET as "a WEAPON" (emphasis his), that the need to inform the
USENET community of such overrides copyright considerations.

-------- Milton Kleim's "On Tactics and Strategy for USENET follows -----

On Tactics and Strategy for USENET

by Milton John Kleim, Jr.


USENET offers enormous opportunity for the Aryan Resistance to disseminate
our message to the unaware and the ignorant. It is the only relatively
uncensored (so far) free-forum mass medium which we have available. The
State cannot yet stop us from "advertising" our ideas and organizations on
USENET, but I can assure you, this will not always be the case. NOW is
the time to grasp the WEAPON which is the Net, and wield it skillfully and
wisely while you may still do so freely.

Crucial to our USENET campaign is that our message is disseminated beyond
"our" groups: alt.politics.nationalism.white, alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revolution.counter, alt.skinheads, and to a certain extent,
alt.revisionism.

We MUST move out beyond our present domain, and take up positions on
"mainstream" groups

Each USENET "cyber guerilla" must obtain a listing of all Net News groups
that are available on their system, and search through the list for groups
suitable for our posts. Don't overlook foreign-oriented and -language
newsgroups.

Find groups that require "tailored" messages: rec. groups concerning food
would be suitable for our "kosher tax" message; alt., soc., and talk.
groups concerning politics and society would be suitable for our message
about the Jewish-controlled media.

Find groups that are suitable for organizational and literature
advertisements: talk.politics.guns should have regular posts explaining
how to order suppressed books; rec.radio.shortwave should have regular
posts of the _American Dissident Voices_ schedule; alt.music. groups
should have regular posts about Resistance Records.

Continually advertise our World Wide Web and FTP resources on any and all
suitable newsgroups. Systematically post the addresses for the Alliance
Website (http://www.natvan.com) and Stormfront Website
(http://stormfront.wat.com/stormfront) and the Alliance FTP site
(FTP.Netcom.com, /pub/NA/NA).

Create posts that are succinct and self-sustaining. By "self-sustaining,"
I mean the post should be ideologically clear, with adequate information
to assist the curious to find the "proof" they seek. An example is in the
"kosher tax" issue: DON'T post something complaining about paying more so
Jews can keep kosher. Post something that directs the curious to their
cupboard to "prove" our contentions, with reasons why they should be
concerned about the issue.

Remember: volume and regularity. Make sure at least one article that
articulates well one or more of our ideas remains on "our" groups AT ALL
TIMES, even if it is only a short reply to the Enemy.

When a newbie sympathetic to us visits "our" groups, and discovers no
posts expressing views which should be characteristic of the group, he or
she will become discouraged, possibly never to return, and disheartened
that White resistance is apparently non-existent. PREVENT THIS!

Furthermore, when a newbie posts a message sympathetic to us, CONTACT THEM
IMMEDIATELY! Welcome them to the group, and offer them information about
our activities. If we fail to contact newbies, they could also become
discouraged by this as well, assuming the White Net resistance doesn't
care about them and/or is incompetent. I built my personal mailing list
of over 80 activists largely through this means. As the Net grows, more
and more people sympathetic to our Cause will journey onto it, and we need
to greet them.

Except on "our" groups, avoid the Race Issue. Side-step it as much as
possible. We don't have the time to defend our stance on this issue
against the comments of hundreds of fools, liars, and degenerates who,
spouting the Jewish line, will slaughter our message with half-truths,
slander, and the ever-used sophistry.

If a newbie or a lurker who seems sincere inquires about racial science,
deal with them ONLY via e-mail. Offer them information as your knowledge
permits, referring them to scientific works if you are not widely-read
enough to sustain a decent discussion with them about it.

Avoid engaging in non-productive debates with enemy activists. It is
often difficult to distinguish between the Enemy's dedicated lackeys, and
the misguided who are merely parroting what the Jewsmedia has taught them.
The former are to be ignored, though it is understandably difficult to
endure their cheap insults. The latter should be dealt with in a polite,
sincere way. Few are "converted" solely by reason, but one who is open to
new ideas and the facts can be guided in the right direction by
reasonable, respectful argumentation.

Sophistry, the art of using false logic to make ridiculous ideas appear to
be thoroughly sound, is our opponents' number one weapon. DENY THEM THEIR
WEAPON! Deny them full use of their bag of dirty tricks by controlling the
debate that ensues from our posts. Simple minded (not to imply
unintelligent) lurkers will be discouraged if they are confused by
sophistic gibberish -- which is of course why the Enemy uses that tactic.
In some cases, you may want to "regulate" how widely your posts are
distributed; when appropriate, manually cancel your posts to prevent
unnecessary debate.

Remember: our overall USENET strategy must be to repeat powerful themes
OVER AND OVER AND OVER. We cannot compete with the Jewsmedia, of course,
as our propaganda dissemination is but a very small fraction of the
everywhere pervasive leftist propaganda. However, our ideas possess an
energy that truth alone contains. Our ideas, when matched one to one with
the chimera of the Jews, overwhelm theirs with ease, because OURS ARE IN
SYNC WITH REALITY. One well-written message containing our ideas has much
greater "bang for the buck."

Remember: our overall USENET strategy must be to repeat powerful themes
OVER AND OVER AND OVER. We cannot compete with the Jewsmedia, of course,
as our propaganda dissemination is but a very small fraction of the
everywhere pervasive Zionist propaganda. However, our ideas possess an
energy that truth alone contains. Our ideas, when matched one to one with
the chimera of the Jews, overwhelm theirs with ease, because OURS ARE IN
SYNC WITH REALITY. One well-written message containing our ideas has much
greater "bang for the buck."

IMPORTANT: While we should all admire his perseverance, NEVER, EVER, do
"the Gannon," and spam groups with messages totally unrelated to the
group's focus [1]. You will fail in your efforts, as you will infuriate
some and generate contempt in nearly all of the group's readers, who may
read other groups you would target. You could also lose your access, as a
flood of hate-mail pours into your system administrator's mailbox.

Tailor your messages for each group. Our ideology has myriad facets and
the well-informed activist can extract something to fit onto just about
every group.

Don't use unnecessary "overkill" -- if a "grenade" will do the job, DON'T
use a "nuclear weapon." Of course, overkill can be a useful controversy
generator and attention-getter, and occasionally there is a sound use for
this tactic, but, if you post a message so inapproriately provocative
and/or pompous, it will diminish your effectiveness.

If you have the time and money to spend, monitor the Enemy's groups, such
as soc.culture.jewish, and other groups where his ideas have complete
reign, such as soc.culture.german. Watch for material that would be of
use to us, such as news of enemy mailing lists or FTP and WWW sites.
Relay such information to your comrades, possibly via the ANA [2]. Much
can be freely learned from the Enemy through this manner.

WARNING: Be aware that EVERYTHING you post will be seen by the Enemy. All
of your posts may be catalogued and archived for future use by the Enemy,
either by self-appointed "Net police" like the notorious Ken Mcvay [3], or
by lurkers from the so-called "Anti-Defamation League" and the "Simon
Wisenthal Center."

DO NOT EVER post a message that advocates or supports an illegal act or
activity. Be assured that any message you post that even hints of direct
action will be archived! If you explicitly advocate illegality, such an
expression will surely be used against you, possibly immediately, by the
Secret Police. The First Amendment still guarantees a wide variety of
political expression, and explicit advocacy of unlawful behavior is NOT
necessary. If your understandable anger builds to a point where you must
say SOMETHING, express your feelings by quoting the fourth clause of the
_Declaration of Independence_ and the ninth article of the _Bill of
Rights_.

Avoid crossposting your articles. Post each article individually to each
newsgroup, rather than collectively to several newsgroups at once.
makes it more difficult for the Enemy to accurately monitor our Net
activity and inhibits his ability to counterpost against us on each and
every group we post to.

In rare instances, pro-Zionist and/or self-righteous renegades have
cancelled "controversial" posts, usually citing alleged "net abuse," by
forging cancellation messages. Since the Net has no "governing body,"
nor an universal convention accepted by all outlining posting regulations,
"net abuse" is a subjective and usually meaningless accusation.
Cancelling another's posts for _any_ reason is unethical, and possibly
illegal. If one should encounter this problem, the most effective
defense is to use different subject headings for each posting, to
minimize the threat of blanket cancellation.

If possible, use "front" accounts to post your messages. If your primary
access allows you to TELNET to other sites, obtain one or more "FreeNet"
accounts on various systems around North America. Most FreeNets allow
users to access USENET, the Web, and other services for no charge. Using
front accounts helps protect your personal security, as well as allows you
to overcome censorship against you more efficiently; simply switch to
another front account if one is terminated. Some of the more popular and
useful FreeNets are the National Capital FreeNet in Ottawa
(FreeNet.Carleton.CA), and the Greater Detroit FreeNet
(Detroit.FreeNet.org).

Coordinate your activities with your comrades. It would be especially
helpful if a "combat information center," to borrow a Navy concept, were
to be established under a reliable, competent organizer. This person
would not "issue orders," but would take note of who's doing what and
where they're doing it. The "CIC" could make recommendations for which
activities and which "fronts" needed attention.

Remember: SUSTAINED, electronic "guerilla warfare," "hit and run" style,
using short, "self-contained" posts is a major component of our struggle.
Put your Net access to good use, today and EVERY day!


NOTES

1. Dan Gannon, a "Holocaust" revisionist, is a pioneer in using the
Net for anti-Zionist propaganda. He was notorious for mass postings
of revisionist material. "Spamming" is a cyberese colloquialism
for indiscriminate posting to multiple newsgroups.

2. The Aryan News Agency, founded 1993 by the author to rapidly and
reliably distribute news to Aryan Net activists via e-mail and
USENET. Free subscription is available from the
new editor, Rick Knight (bf...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA).

3. Ken Mcvay, founder and administrator of the "'Holocaust' and Fascism
Archives" (now known as the "Nizkor Project"), is a fanatical Zionist
lackey who monitors Aryan Net activists and spews pro-Zionist
propaganda.

Copyright 1995 by the author, Milton John Kleim, Jr. All rights reserved.

Permission is extended to all Aryan activists to distribute this work to
other Aryan activists via e-mail or hard copy, provided it is not altered,
abridged, or annotated.

Under no circumstances is this work to be posted or otherwise distributed
publicly without explicit permission from the author.

Milton Kleim can be reached at bb...@FreeNet.Carlton.CA.


------- End of Milton Kleim's "On Tactics and Strategy for USENET --------


Cecelia Clancy cac...@pitt.edu (412) 441-2231
PO Box 71222
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
USA
*************************************************************************

Cecelia A Clancy

unread,
Sep 20, 1995, 3:00:00 AM9/20/95
to
In article <43o81t$i...@news1.deltanet.com>,
Guy Macon <guym...@deltanet.com> wrote:
>In article <43nqi0$e...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, cac...@pitt.edu (Cecelia A Clancy) says:
>
>Where in his message does he advocate net abuse? I don't like the message
>any more than you do, but once we start content based censorship, who's next?

I was not saying that he should be definitely censored. But I thought
that it was wrong to post articles to multiple newsgroups, but seperately
to each group instead of putting them all into one cross-post. It takes
up a more disk space in the system when a person posts separately to multiple
groups.

Is this group just for reports that lead to somone's account being taken
away only? I thought that this was just a place to report users who
are doing things not the way they are supposed to - and posting separately
to multiple groups is something we are not supposed to do.

Cecelia>

Guy Macon

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Sep 20, 1995, 3:00:00 AM9/20/95
to
In article <43nqi0$e...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, cac...@pitt.edu (Cecelia A Clancy) says:

>I have decided that the fact that Kleim advocates net-abuse and advises
>his fellow "Aryan activists" to disregard the rules of the net and
>describes USENET as "a WEAPON" (emphasis his), that the need to inform the
>USENET community of such overrides copyright considerations.

It sure looks like he is advocating that Aryans post single messages that are
related to the topic at hand, but with their own political slant. If they do
that, it does not matter if you or I disagree with the content; it is not
net-abuse and should not cause cancelations, complaints to ISPs etc.

I assume that the Aryan groups are not stupid, and can read and understand the
rules listed in almost any message in news.admin.net-abuse.announce. If they
stay within the rules, they have every right to spread their message as single
human beings putting up single messages that relate to the topic at hand.

Seth Breidbart

unread,
Sep 20, 1995, 3:00:00 AM9/20/95
to
In article <43ofrs$f...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>,

Cecelia A Clancy <cac...@pitt.edu> wrote:
>In article <43o81t$i...@news1.deltanet.com>,
>Guy Macon <guym...@deltanet.com> wrote:

>>Where in his message does he advocate net abuse? I don't like the message
>>any more than you do, but once we start content based censorship, who's next?
>

>I was not saying that he should be definitely censored. But I thought
>that it was wrong to post articles to multiple newsgroups, but seperately
>to each group instead of putting them all into one cross-post.

Except that he specifies posting different messages to each newsgroup
(albeit with the same disgusting slant), so it's not net-abuse. If
the same article were posted to different newsgroups, it would be
rapidly cancelled.

>Is this group just for reports that lead to somone's account being taken
>away only? I thought that this was just a place to report users who
>are doing things not the way they are supposed to - and posting separately
>to multiple groups is something we are not supposed to do.

Why, just yesterday, I posted separately to half a dozen different
newsgroups. (Of course, the articles had nothing to do with each
other.)

Seth

Cecelia A Clancy

unread,
Sep 21, 1995, 3:00:00 AM9/21/95
to
In article <43pi8e$l...@panix3.panix.com>,
Seth Breidbart <se...@panix.com> wrote:

>Except that he specifies posting different messages to each newsgroup
>(albeit with the same disgusting slant), so it's not net-abuse. If
>the same article were posted to different newsgroups, it would be
>rapidly cancelled.

A few days ago, Milton Kleim posted the exact same article separately to
at least
two newsgroups. The article was a reprint of an article that had
appeared in an Australian newspaper. The article was entitled, "Hate
on the Net." Kleim posted this to at least <alt.revisionism> and
<soc.culture.usa>. Somebody in <soc.culture.jewish> saw it in one of
the .talk groups, but I am not certain if Kleim is the one who posted
it there.

Cecelia Clancy cac...@pitt.edu
********************************************************************

Matthew E. Levy

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Sep 21, 1995, 3:00:00 AM9/21/95
to
In article <43rjm0$n...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>,

Cecelia A Clancy <cac...@pitt.edu> wrote:
>A few days ago, Milton Kleim posted the exact same article separately to
>at least
>two newsgroups. The article was a reprint of an article that had
>appeared in an Australian newspaper. The article was entitled, "Hate
>on the Net." Kleim posted this to at least <alt.revisionism> and
><soc.culture.usa>. Somebody in <soc.culture.jewish> saw it in one of
>the .talk groups, but I am not certain if Kleim is the one who posted
>it there.
>
>Cecelia Clancy cac...@pitt.edu

Yea, I saw it on talk.politics.misc and brought it over.

I think it gives us valuable insight into Milton Kleim that he is willing
to post an article that points out numerous fallicies in his revisionist
ideology, just for noteriaty and the glory of seeing his name. BTW,
as far as I could tell, Kleim did post it himself.

Is being narcisistic an important part of being a bigot, well I guess it
is.

Matt (ps. yes, I know I need a spell checker. It's genetic ya know.)

--
=============================================================================
= Matthew E. Levy =Remember: Just because you are not paranoid=
= ml...@ea.gtf.gatech.edu =doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!!! =
=============================================================================

Ronald F. Guilmette

unread,
Sep 29, 1995, 3:00:00 AM9/29/95
to
In article <43o81t$i...@news1.deltanet.com>,
Guy Macon <guym...@deltanet.com> wrote:
>In article <43nqi0$e...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, cac...@pitt.edu (Cecelia A Clancy) says:
>
>>I have decided that the fact that Kleim advocates net-abuse and advises
>>his fellow "Aryan activists" to disregard the rules of the net and
>>describes USENET as "a WEAPON" (emphasis his), that the need to inform the
>>USENET community of such overrides copyright considerations.
>
>It sure looks like he is advocating that Aryans post single messages that are
>related to the topic at hand, but with their own political slant. If they do
>that, it does not matter if you or I disagree with the content; it is not
>net-abuse and should not cause cancelations, complaints to ISPs etc.

OK. How about sending unsolicited junk E-mail to thousands of people
who didn't ask for it, don't want it, and are disgusted by it?

Is _that_ net abuse??? (according to _your_ definition?)

>I assume that the Aryan groups are not stupid...

What makes you assume that?

That is one of the more ridiculous assumptions I have heard in a long
time.

--

-- Ron Guilmette, Roseville, CA -------- Infinite Monkeys & Co. ------------
---- E-mail: r...@monkeys.com ----------- Purveyors of Compiler Test Suites -
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guy Macon

unread,
Sep 30, 1995, 3:00:00 AM9/30/95
to
In article <44g63a$1...@segfault.monkeys.com>, r...@monkeys.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) says:

>Guy Macon <guym...@deltanet.com> wrote:

>>In article <43nqi0$e...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, cac...@pitt.edu (Cecelia A Clancy) says:
>>It sure looks like he is advocating that Aryans post single messages that are
>>related to the topic at hand, but with their own political slant. If they do
>>that, it does not matter if you or I disagree with the content; it is not
>>net-abuse and should not cause cancelations, complaints to ISPs etc.
>
>OK. How about sending unsolicited junk E-mail to thousands of people
>who didn't ask for it, don't want it, and are disgusted by it?
>
>Is _that_ net abuse??? (according to _your_ definition?)

Sure is!

>>I assume that the Aryan groups are not stupid...
>
>What makes you assume that?
>
>That is one of the more ridiculous assumptions I have heard in a long time.

Good point.

Milton Kleim

unread,
Sep 30, 1995, 3:00:00 AM9/30/95
to
Ronald F. Guilmette comments on my _On Tactics and Strategy..._ article:

> OK. How about sending unsolicited junk E-mail to thousands of people
> who didn't ask for it, don't want it, and are disgusted by it?

> Is _that_ net abuse??? (according to _your_ definition?)

It is Net abuse by MY definition as well, and I reported it to the proper
people at the National Alliance's National Office and to the National
Vanguard Website (http://www.natvan.com) webmaster.

Nowhere in my works do I advocate sending mass mailings to addresses in
the manner that "Crus...@National.Alliance"/"Crusader@National-
Alliance.org" did -- especially anonymously. Ironically, I also received
copies of the file; obviously, whoever did it was not coordinating his
activities with other online National Alliance members. Nor do I believe
he had permission from the National office to do what he did.

-----

We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children.

Cecelia A Clancy

unread,
Oct 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM10/2/95
to
In article <44g63a$1...@segfault.monkeys.com>,

Ronald F. Guilmette <r...@monkeys.com> wrote:

>OK. How about sending unsolicited junk E-mail to thousands of people
>who didn't ask for it, don't want it, and are disgusted by it?
>
>Is _that_ net abuse??? (according to _your_ definition?)

ARe you referring to that "The Long march" message?

Who all got it? How did they choose to whom they would send it to?

I have heard from some people who have some idea as to where this
"Crusader" posted from and who he might be.

Is it considered a spam to send massive amounts of e-mail like that?
I thought that spasms were just referring to USENET posts.


Cecelia cac...@pitt.edu
*****************************************************************

Cecelia A Clancy

unread,
Oct 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM10/2/95
to
In article <DFp9o...@freenet.carleton.ca>,
Milton Kleim <bb...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:

>Ironically, I also received
>copies of the file; obviously, whoever did it was not coordinating his
>activities with other online National Alliance members. Nor do I believe
>he had permission from the National office to do what he did.

He or she might not be an online National Alliance member in the first
place. Could it be that this is somebody who is trying to frame the
NA and get it into trouble for spamming? Notice that the file was
sent out to a lot of people on the net who in one way or another have
a reputation for being _against_ National Socialism, White supremacy,
and Jew-hatred ---- the very audience that any _real_ NA member whould
know would be a waste of time trying to solicit donations form and to
thy to recruit into the racist Aryan movement. The motive, therefore,
IMHO, was to piss a lot of people off and specifically at the NA.

The spammer could have been somebody opposed to National Socialism, etc
_OR_ it could have been someebody in that movement who is pissed off
with the NA or with the people who run it (such as William Pierce and'
Kevin (?) Strom).

Someone has said to me that they think they know who did it and this person
is a National Socialist.


Cecelia cac...@pitt.edu
*********************************************************************

Ben Weiner

unread,
Oct 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM10/3/95
to
cac...@pitt.edu (Cecelia A Clancy) writes:

> ... Could it be that this is somebody who is trying to frame the


>NA and get it into trouble for spamming? Notice that the file was
>sent out to a lot of people on the net who in one way or another have
>a reputation for being _against_ National Socialism, White supremacy,
>and Jew-hatred ---- the very audience that any _real_ NA member whould
>know would be a waste of time trying to solicit donations form and to
>thy to recruit into the racist Aryan movement. The motive, therefore,
>IMHO, was to piss a lot of people off and specifically at the NA.

Given the Newsgroups: line, I expect you're posting from alt.revisionism.
In fact, if you read some of the traffic in news.admin.net-abuse.misc,
it's easy to see that enormous numbers of people who've ever posted to
Usenet or are on a mailing list got copies of this email spam. (That's
the colloquial term for it, and yes, email spamming is considered
net-abuse.) So no, it's not directed specifically at anti-Nazis.

I am unpersuaded by the argument that it was a frame job done to stir
up hatred of the NA. After all, most ordinary people already despise
them. We know that rightist racist nuts generally want publicity,
even if it means hostile attention. (That's why, for example, the
American Nazi Party wanted to march in Skokie, et cetera, et cetera.)

I have set followups to news.admin.net-abuse.misc.

--
Lest anyone think advertisers aren't beginning to catch on, a recent Letter
to the Editor from a disillusioned direct marketer with, apparently, some
experience on Usenet noted that "Usenet users are some of the cheapest
bastards on the planet." --- Paul Havemann on alt.internet.media-coverage

David Lynch

unread,
Oct 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM10/3/95
to
Cecelia A Clancy (cac...@pitt.edu) wrote:
: He or she might not be an online National Alliance member in the first
: place. Could it be that this is somebody who is trying to frame the

: NA and get it into trouble for spamming? Notice that the file was
: sent out to a lot of people on the net who in one way or another have
: a reputation for being _against_ National Socialism, White supremacy,
: and Jew-hatred

Pure coincidence. Kleim also noted that he received a copy, and I don't
really think I have a reputation for being against anti-National
Socialist. I don't think these are targeted at all.

: ---- the very audience that any _real_ NA member whould


: know would be a waste of time trying to solicit donations form and to
: thy to recruit into the racist Aryan movement. The motive, therefore,
: IMHO, was to piss a lot of people off and specifically at the NA.

It's possible. But speculating on motives at this point is futile. I do
know that a LOT of people have become incensed not only at the method of
distribution, but the content of the message itself. If someone wanted
to get white supremacist material canned from the net, this method would
probably be good.

--
erase...@iglou.com / Not the dead director / Tape trades welcome
See the Soap WWW page at: http://www.rahul.net/ndanger/soap/soap.html

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