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Hi, I have a question for everybody and would love to hear your thoughts please...
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Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 3:23:26 PM6/5/12
to
How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 3:27:04 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 4:23 am, Martin Michael Musatov
MG
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
Fuck off ewe dumb cunt.
> How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
MG
Giga
Jun 5, 2012, 3:59:19 PM6/5/12
to
"Martin Michael Musatov" <musatovat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cc812627-d4d0-4674...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com...
> How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
Would it potentially be unethical for any powerful being to just evesdrop on
our inner lives without permission? If so then maybe just through our
actions and perhaps prayer?
Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 3:59:32 PM6/5/12
to
Mr Gordge:
I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
requested and provided by Yahoo:
Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
mikeg...@xtra.co.nz is using Yahoo's e-mail service to abuse certain
users on the USENET service. He used Yahoo's email service to harass
me publicly, by writing from his address, "Fuck off ewe dumb cunt. "
mikeg...@xtra.co.nz
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian, alt.religion, alt.philosophy,
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
header:
From: Michael Gordge <mikeg...@xtra.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:27:04 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Jun 5 2012 2:27 pm
Subject: Re: Hi, I have a question for everybody and would love to
hear your thoughts please...
submitted to:
http://io.help.yahoo.com/contact/index#email-form
result:
Thank you!
Thank you for contacting Yahoo! Customer Care.
Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
If you are reporting abuse, we appreciate your efforts to make our
community better. We will investigate and take action where
appropriate, and may contact you if additional information is required
to complete our investigation.
If you are submitting a request for assistance, or asking a
question, we will respond, usually within 24 - 48 hours.
Sincerely,
The Yahoo! Customer Care Team
I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
requested and provided by Yahoo:
Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
mikeg...@xtra.co.nz is using Yahoo's e-mail service to abuse certain
users on the USENET service. He used Yahoo's email service to harass
me publicly, by writing from his address, "Fuck off ewe dumb cunt. "
mikeg...@xtra.co.nz
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian, alt.religion, alt.philosophy,
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
header:
From: Michael Gordge <mikeg...@xtra.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:27:04 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Jun 5 2012 2:27 pm
Subject: Re: Hi, I have a question for everybody and would love to
hear your thoughts please...
submitted to:
http://io.help.yahoo.com/contact/index#email-form
result:
Thank you!
Thank you for contacting Yahoo! Customer Care.
Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
If you are reporting abuse, we appreciate your efforts to make our
community better. We will investigate and take action where
appropriate, and may contact you if additional information is required
to complete our investigation.
If you are submitting a request for assistance, or asking a
question, we will respond, usually within 24 - 48 hours.
Sincerely,
The Yahoo! Customer Care Team
Fred M. McNeill
Jun 5, 2012, 4:10:28 PM6/5/12
to
On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT), Martin Michael Musatov <musatovat...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
The "heart" and "God" are folk talk stories in our personal
brain based virtual reality. As such, anything well practiced goes.
'Self' qualia stories have had a lot of 'time' to evolve.
'Situation' qualia are more tied to our personal history.
Sensor qualia are stories that evolved into our brain,
such as 'red' or 'cold'. There is no 'red' 'out there', only in our
representational brain based virtual reality.
Thus, 'humans' need their stories.
wrote:
>How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
brain based virtual reality. As such, anything well practiced goes.
'Self' qualia stories have had a lot of 'time' to evolve.
'Situation' qualia are more tied to our personal history.
Sensor qualia are stories that evolved into our brain,
such as 'red' or 'cold'. There is no 'red' 'out there', only in our
representational brain based virtual reality.
Thus, 'humans' need their stories.
Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 4:15:02 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 5, 3:10 pm, Fred M. McNeill <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT), Martin Michael Musatov <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com>
understand our life. What do you mean by 'Self' qualia versus
'Situation' qualia?
Does God measure us by our stories? If not how does God measure belief
to determine where we spend eternity?
I understand I can look up the definitions and how others have used
these terms but I want to make sure I understand your meaning for
their specific use here.
Thank you,
Martin
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT), Martin Michael Musatov <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
>
> The "heart" and "God" are folk talk stories in our personal
> brain based virtual reality. As such, anything well practiced goes.
> 'Self' qualia stories have had a lot of 'time' to evolve.
> 'Situation' qualia are more tied to our personal history.
>
> Sensor qualia are stories that evolved into our brain,
> such as 'red' or 'cold'. There is no 'red' 'out there', only in our
> representational brain based virtual reality.
>
> Thus, 'humans' need their stories.
This is so true. We definitely need our stories. It is the way we
>
> >How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
>
> The "heart" and "God" are folk talk stories in our personal
> brain based virtual reality. As such, anything well practiced goes.
> 'Self' qualia stories have had a lot of 'time' to evolve.
> 'Situation' qualia are more tied to our personal history.
>
> Sensor qualia are stories that evolved into our brain,
> such as 'red' or 'cold'. There is no 'red' 'out there', only in our
> representational brain based virtual reality.
>
> Thus, 'humans' need their stories.
understand our life. What do you mean by 'Self' qualia versus
'Situation' qualia?
Does God measure us by our stories? If not how does God measure belief
to determine where we spend eternity?
I understand I can look up the definitions and how others have used
these terms but I want to make sure I understand your meaning for
their specific use here.
Thank you,
Martin
Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 4:11:53 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 5, 2:59 pm, "Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe
end)ho...@yahoo.co> wrote:
> "Martin Michael Musatov" <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:cc812627-d4d0-4674...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com...
If you subscribe to the Jewish-Christian theology giving our
permission would seem to me to be equivalent to the potter/clay
scenario.
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the ...
... Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make
one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? ...(Christian
version)
I guess this calls to mind free-will or determinism.
Jeremiah 18:4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred ...
... And the vessel he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter’s
hand, and he reworked
it into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to do. ...
(Jewish/Christian)
Isaiah 64:8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you ...
Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all
the work of your hand. ... We are the clay, and you are the
potter. ... (Jewish/Christian)
I often wonder about this state of monitoring potentially and how
distinctions would be made and measured.
If so then maybe just through our actions and perhaps prayer?
I think we are certainly rewarded for good works in eternities and
prayer is definitely a way to communicate but it seems like something
deeper might be required to sit right to me.
I think God must be able to look at us like light switches, we are
either on or off to God and God must be able to determine if we are
off or on at any instance.
Like maybe to God our Salvation is something akin to being pregnant,
you either believe or you do not. You are either pregnant or you are
not. There is just no middle ground distinction there. I wrestle with
this idea with my prayers often and seek to understand it with ardent
prayer to God.
I think God must have practical ways to measure everything including
us.
Thank you for writing,
Martin
end)ho...@yahoo.co> wrote:
> "Martin Michael Musatov" <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:cc812627-d4d0-4674...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
>
> Would it potentially be unethical for any powerful being to just evesdrop on
> our inner lives without permission?
Kind of. It feels like it to me, and I am a Christian.
> > How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
>
> Would it potentially be unethical for any powerful being to just evesdrop on
> our inner lives without permission?
If you subscribe to the Jewish-Christian theology giving our
permission would seem to me to be equivalent to the potter/clay
scenario.
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the ...
... Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make
one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? ...(Christian
version)
I guess this calls to mind free-will or determinism.
Jeremiah 18:4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred ...
... And the vessel he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter’s
hand, and he reworked
it into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to do. ...
(Jewish/Christian)
Isaiah 64:8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you ...
Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all
the work of your hand. ... We are the clay, and you are the
potter. ... (Jewish/Christian)
I often wonder about this state of monitoring potentially and how
distinctions would be made and measured.
If so then maybe just through our actions and perhaps prayer?
prayer is definitely a way to communicate but it seems like something
deeper might be required to sit right to me.
I think God must be able to look at us like light switches, we are
either on or off to God and God must be able to determine if we are
off or on at any instance.
Like maybe to God our Salvation is something akin to being pregnant,
you either believe or you do not. You are either pregnant or you are
not. There is just no middle ground distinction there. I wrestle with
this idea with my prayers often and seek to understand it with ardent
prayer to God.
I think God must have practical ways to measure everything including
us.
Thank you for writing,
Martin
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 4:42:09 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 4:59 am, Martin Michael Musatov
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mr Gordge:
>
> I have reported your abuse to your email provider.....
Go fuck yourself ewe dopey cunt, ewe've obviously had lots of
practice.
MG
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mr Gordge:
>
> I have reported your abuse to your email provider.....
Go fuck yourself ewe dopey cunt, ewe've obviously had lots of
practice.
MG
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 4:43:50 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 5:11 am, Martin Michael Musatov
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think.........
There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
MG
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think.........
There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
MG
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 4:45:20 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 5:15 am, Martin Michael Musatov
Do ewe describe god in the image of yourself, i.e. is god as dopey as
ewe?
MG
ewe?
MG
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 4:49:21 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 4:59 am, Martin Michael Musatov
the god nonsense?
MG
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mr Gordge:
>
> I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
> this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
> requested and provided by Yahoo:
> Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
>
> mikegor...@xtra.co.nz is using Yahoo's e-mail service to abuse certain
> Mr Gordge:
>
> I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
> this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
> requested and provided by Yahoo:
> Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
>
> users on the USENET service. He used Yahoo's email service to harass
> me publicly, by writing from his address, "Fuck off ewe dumb cunt. "
>
> mikegor...@xtra.co.nz
> me publicly, by writing from his address, "Fuck off ewe dumb cunt. "
>
>
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian, alt.religion, alt.philosophy,
> alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
> header:
> From: Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz>
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian, alt.religion, alt.philosophy,
> alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
> header:
> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:27:04 -0700 (PDT)
> Local: Tues, Jun 5 2012 2:27 pm
> Subject: Re: Hi, I have a question for everybody and would love to
> hear your thoughts please...
>
> submitted to:http://io.help.yahoo.com/contact/index#email-form
>
> result:
> Thank you!
>
> Thank you for contacting Yahoo! Customer Care.
>
> Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
>
> If you are reporting abuse, we appreciate your efforts to make our
> community better. We will investigate and take action where
> appropriate, and may contact you if additional information is required
> to complete our investigation.
> If you are submitting a request for assistance, or asking a
> question, we will respond, usually within 24 - 48 hours.
>
> Sincerely,
> The Yahoo! Customer Care Team
Hey dopey, if god made ewe sooo phuken smart then how come ewe believe
> Local: Tues, Jun 5 2012 2:27 pm
> Subject: Re: Hi, I have a question for everybody and would love to
> hear your thoughts please...
>
> submitted to:http://io.help.yahoo.com/contact/index#email-form
>
> result:
> Thank you!
>
> Thank you for contacting Yahoo! Customer Care.
>
> Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
>
> If you are reporting abuse, we appreciate your efforts to make our
> community better. We will investigate and take action where
> appropriate, and may contact you if additional information is required
> to complete our investigation.
> If you are submitting a request for assistance, or asking a
> question, we will respond, usually within 24 - 48 hours.
>
> Sincerely,
> The Yahoo! Customer Care Team
the god nonsense?
MG
Immortalist
Jun 5, 2012, 4:52:48 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 5, 12:23 pm, Martin Michael Musatov
people make them up and then agree to use them. Nothing inherent in
nature dictates that an inch has to be a certain length, or that a
mile is a better measure of distance than a kilometre. Over the course
of human history, however, first for convenience and then for
necessity, standards of measurement evolved so that communities would
have certain common benchmarks. Laws regulating measurement were
originally developed to prevent fraud in commerce.
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
units of measurement are essentially arbitrary; in other words,
> How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
people make them up and then agree to use them. Nothing inherent in
nature dictates that an inch has to be a certain length, or that a
mile is a better measure of distance than a kilometre. Over the course
of human history, however, first for convenience and then for
necessity, standards of measurement evolved so that communities would
have certain common benchmarks. Laws regulating measurement were
originally developed to prevent fraud in commerce.
Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 5:01:02 PM6/5/12
to
Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 5:03:06 PM6/5/12
to
Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 5:04:11 PM6/5/12
to
THE LIVING GOD, The Gate of the flock.” I counted several ewes.
“But I have other sheep which were not from this fold; I must also
bring them. They also will hear my voice, and the entire fold shall be
one, and One Shepherd.” Jesus said.
Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 5:05:09 PM6/5/12
to
opposite.
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 4:52:51 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 5:15 am, Martin Michael Musatov
Hahaha, ewe mystics as sure as god made hell sure are a real crack up.
If god is measuring ewe by your stories
then how big and silly does god measure your stories about god?
MG
Hahaha, ewe mystics as sure as god made hell sure are a real crack up.
If god is measuring ewe by your stories
then how big and silly does god measure your stories about god?
MG
Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 5:04:23 PM6/5/12
to
before you ask it to the reader.
Martin Michael Musatov
Jun 5, 2012, 5:07:03 PM6/5/12
to
measurement from an absolute perspective infinite.
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 5:15:57 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 6:01 am, Martin Michael Musatov
MG
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 5, 3:43 pm, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 5:11 am, Martin Michael Musatov
>
> > <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think.........
>
> > There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
>
> > MG
>
> And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
And that makes sense, how?
> On Jun 5, 3:43 pm, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 5:11 am, Martin Michael Musatov
>
> > <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think.........
>
> > There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
>
> > MG
>
> And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
MG
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 5:14:34 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 6:05 am, Martin Michael Musatov
There is no evidence god exists as anything but a man made phuken
nonsense, but by all means be the very
human in 7,000 years of the nonsense to prove otherwise.
MG
nonsense, but by all means be the very
human in 7,000 years of the nonsense to prove otherwise.
MG
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 5:26:30 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 6:01 am, Martin Michael Musatov
leave a puppy under the tree.
MG
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 5, 3:43 pm, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 5:11 am, Martin Michael Musatov
>
> > <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think.........
>
> > There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
>
> > MG
>
> And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
And Santa ridiculed him, saying, Grow up and be a good boy and I will
> On Jun 5, 3:43 pm, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 5:11 am, Martin Michael Musatov
>
> > <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think.........
>
> > There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
>
> > MG
>
> And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
leave a puppy under the tree.
MG
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 5:41:59 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 6:04 am, Martin Michael Musatov
And the Tooth Fairy, laughing her tits off, saying, Grow up and dont
cry and I will leave a dime under your pillow
for your tooth.
Why didn't ewe purge the god crap at the same time ewe purged santa
and the tooth fairy?
MG
cry and I will leave a dime under your pillow
for your tooth.
Why didn't ewe purge the god crap at the same time ewe purged santa
and the tooth fairy?
MG
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 5:46:41 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 6:04 am, Martin Michael Musatov
But again the garden Gnome said to the slugs, eating those pellets
will cause you to halucinate.
MG
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 5, 3:43 pm, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 5:11 am, Martin Michael Musatov
>
> > <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think.........
>
> > There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
>
> > MG
>
> But again Yeshua said to them, ....
> On Jun 5, 3:43 pm, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 5:11 am, Martin Michael Musatov
>
> > <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think.........
>
> > There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
>
> > MG
>
But again the garden Gnome said to the slugs, eating those pellets
will cause you to halucinate.
MG
Michael Gordge
Jun 5, 2012, 5:54:49 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 6, 6:04 am, Martin Michael Musatov
it still aint happened?
Sheeeesh, so much for the omnipotence BS.
MG
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 5, 3:43 pm, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 5:11 am, Martin Michael Musatov
>
> > <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think.........
>
> > There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
>
> > MG
>
> But again Yeshua said to them, “Timeless truth I speak to you; I AM
> THE LIVING GOD, The Gate of the flock.” I counted several ewes.
> “But I have other sheep which were not from this fold; I must also
> bring them. They also will hear my voice, and the entire fold shall be
> one, and One Shepherd.” Jesus said.
How many thousand years ago do ewe reckon that was said and how come
> On Jun 5, 3:43 pm, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 5:11 am, Martin Michael Musatov
>
> > <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think.........
>
> > There is no evidence ewe think, ewe dumb khunt.
>
> > MG
>
> But again Yeshua said to them, “Timeless truth I speak to you; I AM
> THE LIVING GOD, The Gate of the flock.” I counted several ewes.
> “But I have other sheep which were not from this fold; I must also
> bring them. They also will hear my voice, and the entire fold shall be
> one, and One Shepherd.” Jesus said.
it still aint happened?
Sheeeesh, so much for the omnipotence BS.
MG
tooly
Jun 5, 2012, 7:26:03 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 5, 4:11 pm, Martin Michael Musatov
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thoughtful posting by Mr. Mustaov...
The Calvinist principle is that there no measure of human 'goodness',
as it were, but 'all things exist by the grace of God'. This is a
hard concept for sure, and it took me many moons before I could ever
come to grips with any sense to it. Most of us like to think there is
moral differentiation by the acts and inner sincerity of our behvior.
'All things by the grace' ultimately puts us all on the same footing
with God, where mass and serial murders would have the same
possibility of salvation as those pious and moral. This never seemed
right to me. A moral man SHOULD by all justifcation, have some
'merit' with God...and therein, at least for me, was the clue. I
found in myself, that no matter how I tried to be moral, how I
justified my own worthiness through acts or behavior, I could NEVER
[as in impossible] get past the ultimate reason for such acts as being
ME. It was my own selfishness, no matter how we wrap it up, or try
to deny, or even to take on selfless and even sacrificing
behaviors...ultimately, when in prayer, standing as naked as one might
stand before their own critique, I saw that no matter what I did, I
was only trying to IMPRESS upon God, that I was 'better'.
In God's eyes [if there is a God], no one is better. Or perhaps
better put, everyone has the same potential for salvation...of course,
through the acceptance of Christ.
As the writings go, we are born in moral sin, as it were [which I came
to view as the foundations of that selfishness].
Anyway, maybe looking into this Cavlinist principle might help your
search for higher understanding [not that I necessarily found any
myself, but only to explain where my own journey took me]. I know I
can never escape this selfishness...and even in supposed selfless
acts, I am still wresting some sense of 'worth' for myself [ergo,
selfish].
The Christian heart makes it all ok of course; like swimming in some
perfect order, where ego and self melts away somehow [as much as might
be possible while alive in this world]. I'm sure those like Immort
and Sir can easily trash this whole concept of course, but that's ok
too...for any state is just that to me now. I know what I've seen and
experienced, and I'd trade that Christian state of heart and mind in a
heartbeat to the nihilistic nothingness of being so astutely
'intellectually' correct. There is no measure of God...and, at least
for me, I remember swimming in some sort of energy that flowed through
me that I cannot convey well...but with the only word we
have...'love'. We only have a moment while here in the cosmos, in
this thin biosphere of a tiny fragile niche.
Anyway, good luck on your search and journey of discovery. Be sincere
until it hurts and you can no longer lie...to yourself, first and
foremost. And then still have the audacity to CHOOSE to believe.
I'll shut up now.
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
The Calvinist principle is that there no measure of human 'goodness',
as it were, but 'all things exist by the grace of God'. This is a
hard concept for sure, and it took me many moons before I could ever
come to grips with any sense to it. Most of us like to think there is
moral differentiation by the acts and inner sincerity of our behvior.
'All things by the grace' ultimately puts us all on the same footing
with God, where mass and serial murders would have the same
possibility of salvation as those pious and moral. This never seemed
right to me. A moral man SHOULD by all justifcation, have some
'merit' with God...and therein, at least for me, was the clue. I
found in myself, that no matter how I tried to be moral, how I
justified my own worthiness through acts or behavior, I could NEVER
[as in impossible] get past the ultimate reason for such acts as being
ME. It was my own selfishness, no matter how we wrap it up, or try
to deny, or even to take on selfless and even sacrificing
behaviors...ultimately, when in prayer, standing as naked as one might
stand before their own critique, I saw that no matter what I did, I
was only trying to IMPRESS upon God, that I was 'better'.
In God's eyes [if there is a God], no one is better. Or perhaps
better put, everyone has the same potential for salvation...of course,
through the acceptance of Christ.
As the writings go, we are born in moral sin, as it were [which I came
to view as the foundations of that selfishness].
Anyway, maybe looking into this Cavlinist principle might help your
search for higher understanding [not that I necessarily found any
myself, but only to explain where my own journey took me]. I know I
can never escape this selfishness...and even in supposed selfless
acts, I am still wresting some sense of 'worth' for myself [ergo,
selfish].
The Christian heart makes it all ok of course; like swimming in some
perfect order, where ego and self melts away somehow [as much as might
be possible while alive in this world]. I'm sure those like Immort
and Sir can easily trash this whole concept of course, but that's ok
too...for any state is just that to me now. I know what I've seen and
experienced, and I'd trade that Christian state of heart and mind in a
heartbeat to the nihilistic nothingness of being so astutely
'intellectually' correct. There is no measure of God...and, at least
for me, I remember swimming in some sort of energy that flowed through
me that I cannot convey well...but with the only word we
have...'love'. We only have a moment while here in the cosmos, in
this thin biosphere of a tiny fragile niche.
Anyway, good luck on your search and journey of discovery. Be sincere
until it hurts and you can no longer lie...to yourself, first and
foremost. And then still have the audacity to CHOOSE to believe.
I'll shut up now.
tooly
Jun 5, 2012, 7:33:42 PM6/5/12
to
sin'...sheese.
It's this damned defective keyboard [of course].
Giga
Jun 6, 2012, 1:52:01 AM6/6/12
to
news:bf3c55ed-16f8-4acb...@qz1g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
>right? Maybe God would be able to justify evesdropping, and we might have
>no basis for complaint, but would He still consider it better morally to
>not evesdrop, even though permissable? Or better for some other reason.
I guess this calls to mind free-will or determinism.
>That is a very different subject.
Jeremiah 18:4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred ...
... And the vessel he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter’s
hand, and he reworked
it into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to do. ...
(Jewish/Christian)
Isaiah 64:8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you ...
Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all
the work of your hand. ... We are the clay, and you are the
potter. ... (Jewish/Christian)
I often wonder about this state of monitoring potentially and how
distinctions would be made and measured.
If so then maybe just through our actions and perhaps prayer?
I think we are certainly rewarded for good works in eternities and
prayer is definitely a way to communicate but it seems like something
deeper might be required to sit right to me.
>I'm not so sure about this 'rewards [and punishments] in eternity'.
>Certainly I can imagine that if eternity exists then we might regret or
>celebrate certain things we do in life for a long time.
I think God must be able to look at us like light switches, we are
either on or off to God and God must be able to determine if we are
off or on at any instance.
Like maybe to God our Salvation is something akin to being pregnant,
you either believe or you do not. You are either pregnant or you are
not. There is just no middle ground distinction there. I wrestle with
this idea with my prayers often and seek to understand it with ardent
prayer to God.
I think God must have practical ways to measure everything including
us.
Thank you for writing,
>Good question.
On Jun 5, 2:59 pm, "Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe
end)ho...@yahoo.co> wrote:
> "Martin Michael Musatov" <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:cc812627-d4d0-4674...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
>
> Would it potentially be unethical for any powerful being to just evesdrop
> on
> our inner lives without permission?
Kind of. It feels like it to me, and I am a Christian.
If you subscribe to the Jewish-Christian theology giving our
permission would seem to me to be equivalent to the potter/clay
scenario.
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the ...
... Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make
one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? ...(Christian
version)
>The 'potter' may have a right but does the potter *have* to excercise the
end)ho...@yahoo.co> wrote:
> "Martin Michael Musatov" <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:cc812627-d4d0-4674...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
>
> Would it potentially be unethical for any powerful being to just evesdrop
> on
> our inner lives without permission?
Kind of. It feels like it to me, and I am a Christian.
If you subscribe to the Jewish-Christian theology giving our
permission would seem to me to be equivalent to the potter/clay
scenario.
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the ...
... Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make
one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? ...(Christian
version)
>right? Maybe God would be able to justify evesdropping, and we might have
>no basis for complaint, but would He still consider it better morally to
>not evesdrop, even though permissable? Or better for some other reason.
I guess this calls to mind free-will or determinism.
Jeremiah 18:4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred ...
... And the vessel he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter’s
hand, and he reworked
it into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to do. ...
(Jewish/Christian)
Isaiah 64:8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you ...
Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all
the work of your hand. ... We are the clay, and you are the
potter. ... (Jewish/Christian)
I often wonder about this state of monitoring potentially and how
distinctions would be made and measured.
If so then maybe just through our actions and perhaps prayer?
I think we are certainly rewarded for good works in eternities and
prayer is definitely a way to communicate but it seems like something
deeper might be required to sit right to me.
>Certainly I can imagine that if eternity exists then we might regret or
>celebrate certain things we do in life for a long time.
I think God must be able to look at us like light switches, we are
either on or off to God and God must be able to determine if we are
off or on at any instance.
Like maybe to God our Salvation is something akin to being pregnant,
you either believe or you do not. You are either pregnant or you are
not. There is just no middle ground distinction there. I wrestle with
this idea with my prayers often and seek to understand it with ardent
prayer to God.
I think God must have practical ways to measure everything including
us.
Thank you for writing,
Giga
Jun 6, 2012, 1:52:30 AM6/6/12
to
news:bf2903f2-e768-423b...@l5g2000pbo.googlegroups.com...
: )
duke
Jun 6, 2012, 7:53:53 AM6/6/12
to
On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT), Martin Michael Musatov
<musatovat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
Repent of sins, pick up our own cross daily, and follow Jesus in love and
<musatovat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
obedience to the Father.
duke - American American
*****
2012 - end of an error
Vote Republican in 2012
*****
duke
Jun 6, 2012, 7:57:15 AM6/6/12
to
On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Martin Michael Musatov
<musatovat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Mr Gordge:
>
>I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
>this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
>requested and provided by Yahoo:
>Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
Good move. Either way, just don't acknowledge him any more. With any luck, his
<musatovat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Mr Gordge:
>
>I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
>this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
>requested and provided by Yahoo:
>Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
internet/email/ng account will be closed.
Zerkon
Jun 6, 2012, 8:57:56 AM6/6/12
to
In article <cc812627-d4d0-4674-9de5-ac2015e407f7
@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, musatovat...@gmail.com says...
@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, musatovat...@gmail.com says...
> How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts?
>
by what we hold in our hands.
>
Arindam Banerjee
Jun 6, 2012, 9:02:06 AM6/6/12
to
On Jun 6, 5:23 am, Martin Michael Musatov
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
If you really believed in any God, you would not need to ask.
<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
If you really believed in any God, you would not need to ask.
�R.Measures
Jun 6, 2012, 1:05:25 PM6/6/12
to
In article <MPG.2a391ddef...@news.eternal-september.org>, Zerkon
� So when a priest is butt banging an altar-boy, if the priest keeps his
hands free, God won't find out about it.
hands free, God won't find out about it.
Dare
Jun 6, 2012, 3:30:10 PM6/6/12
to
"Martin Michael Musatov" <musatovat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:323c144e-e395-4a5f...@si8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
What Standard is the measurement compared to?
news:323c144e-e395-4a5f...@si8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
Michael Gordge
Jun 6, 2012, 4:11:14 PM6/6/12
to
On Jun 6, 8:57 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Martin Michael Musatov
>
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Martin Michael Musatov
>
> <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Mr Gordge:
>
> >I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
> >this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
> >requested and provided by Yahoo:
> >Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
>
> Good move.
Typical Nazi fuckwit, dont like what ewe read about yourself and
> >Mr Gordge:
>
> >I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
> >this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
> >requested and provided by Yahoo:
> >Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
>
> Good move.
attempt to have it shut down.
Sign of a desperate fucking coward, ewe god fucking bible banging
fucking morons are a scourge of humanity.
MG
duke
Jun 7, 2012, 8:18:52 AM6/7/12
to
On Wed, 6 Jun 2012 13:11:14 -0700 (PDT), Michael Gordge <mikeg...@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:
>On Jun 6, 8:57 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Martin Michael Musatov
>>
>> <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Mr Gordge:
>>
>> >I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
>> >this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
>> >requested and provided by Yahoo:
>> >Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
>>
>> Good move.
>
>Typical Nazi fuckwit, dont like what ewe read about yourself and
>attempt to have it shut down.
You deserve being reported.
>Sign of a desperate fucking coward, ewe god fucking bible banging
>fucking morons are a scourge of humanity.
>MG
A child amongst us.
wrote:
>On Jun 6, 8:57 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Martin Michael Musatov
>>
>> <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Mr Gordge:
>>
>> >I have reported your abuse to your email provider and am sending you
>> >this Email I provided Yahoo Customer Care with the information
>> >requested and provided by Yahoo:
>> >Your Incident ID is: 120605-006345
>>
>> Good move.
>
>Typical Nazi fuckwit, dont like what ewe read about yourself and
>attempt to have it shut down.
>Sign of a desperate fucking coward, ewe god fucking bible banging
>fucking morons are a scourge of humanity.
>MG
Martin Michael Musatov
Jul 14, 2012, 2:18:51 AM7/14/12
to
On Jun 6, 2:30 pm, "Dare" <clydad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Martin MichaelMusatov" <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:323c144e-e395-4a5f...@si8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
The difference between the words reed and read are a good standard of
quality of measurement
> "Martin MichaelMusatov" <musatovatattdot...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:323c144e-e395-4a5f...@si8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
quality of measurement
M3
Sep 1, 2012, 7:33:50 PM9/1/12
to
On Jul 14, 1:37 pm, tooly <rd...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 5, 2012 4:10:28 PM UTC-4, Sir Frederick Martin wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT), Martin MichaelMusatov<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
>
> > The "heart" and "God" are folk talk stories in our personal
> > 'Situation' qualia are more tied to our personal history.
>
> But wouldn't it be nice if we could peer into the 'heart' [the deeper intent] of a person.
What sounds is heard.
In economics there is a thing called 'imperfect information' and is
reason for much lost resource in markets. I have even entertained
that perhaps the root of all evil [if there is such a thing] might be
this 'imperfect information'.
The root of all evil is good intentions of ignorant people.
As long as everything is on the table where everyone can see,
equitable prices can be set, and fair profit and satisfaction can be
had by all parties.
Money changers.
It is only when things are 'hidden', either purposely or otherwise,
that unfair profits and exorbitant economic rents result and
dissatisfaction.
Those who do their evil hidden are seen by God. It is not less evil,
or more evil, if it is seen.
>
> Part of that imperfect information would be the general honesty and frankness of the parties in their transaction. Mind you, there [to me anyway] are all sorts of 'intangible' markets we deal in every day [not just commodities]. Take between the genders and the 'games' they play. Honesty just does not do in such an arena where a male might find a female 'attractive' and simply go up and speak of his desires and wants; or the female divulge the entire 'costs' and price she would invoke for such 'goods' (herself) on the open market. Emotional goods are harder to measure of course.
Futures markets shudder in the hands of the Lord.
>
> Imperfect Information. It is surely the clay of the devil's workshop.
Dust, dust, it is all dust. It all belongs to the Lord.>
> I wonder, how honest and sincere can anyone be and still survive in this world?
Honest and sincere.
I might be good example, as I'm outspoken on my FEELINGS about race
and what is taking place in this society between the white female and
black male.
The color of their skins do not matter. Their very skins are the sames
as the grass grown one day and thrown in the stove the next.
No one sees the honesty [a virtue], but only lambasts me for the
content. I feel as I feel. What can I say; I don't act upon it...just
want to communicate there are 'costs' to all that is going down in
today's 'forced socialization'...and I am part of that 'cost' [gain
one thing, lose another].
> [me, again, not so me as an individual, but as an archtype male persona].
>
> It would be 'better' to maintain 'imperfect information' in this case and 'lie' to the world;
The truth is good. The truth is better, because it is better to tell
the truth. It is better to tell the truth, because the truth is best.
throughout history, has given much resistance to conquering hordes.
They simply adapt to who owns the territory.
Filthy still.
>
> I reach far afield here. Imperfect information. And if only we could PEER into the heart of anyone and see exactly WHO they really are.
WE ARE.
I'm sure we'd find a mixture of good and bad in everyone...but, I'd
like to think some at least TRY more. Does my 'sincerity' count for
nothing?
Anything to count, counts for something.
No, I suppose not; only if I 'think' like "they" want me to think.
I'm sorry; the white woman making hay with the black man is the most
vile thing to ever happen in this world [to someone like me].
The woman is black, the man is white, and yesterday, black men
attacked a white man who was with a black woman and he had to have
surgery on his eye.
And you'd definitely have to peer into my heart to know why that is.
She was EVERYTHING to me. And now, only brokeness exists.
>
She is everything. Hope exists.
> Hmmm...Breaking Bad was one of the best tv series to come down the pike. The dynamics of creating a 'bad man' out of a once upon a time 'good man'...a quite fascinating thing really. I would argue that in most cases, the fundamental reasons can be traced back to 'woman' in some way.True.
> On Tuesday, June 5, 2012 4:10:28 PM UTC-4, Sir Frederick Martin wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT), Martin MichaelMusatov<musatovatattdot...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >How is it God measures what we believe in our hearts? Thanks, Martin
>
> > The "heart" and "God" are folk talk stories in our personal
> > brain based virtual reality. As such, anything well practiced goes.
> > 'Self' qualia stories have had a lot of 'time' to evolve.
> > 'Situation' qualia are more tied to our personal history.
>
> > Sensor qualia are stories that evolved into our brain,
> > such as 'red' or 'cold'. There is no 'red' 'out there', only in our
> > Sensor qualia are stories that evolved into our brain,
> > representational brain based virtual reality.
>
> > Thus, 'humans' need their stories.
>
>
> But wouldn't it be nice if we could peer into the 'heart' [the deeper intent] of a person.
What sounds is heard.
In economics there is a thing called 'imperfect information' and is
reason for much lost resource in markets. I have even entertained
that perhaps the root of all evil [if there is such a thing] might be
this 'imperfect information'.
The root of all evil is good intentions of ignorant people.
As long as everything is on the table where everyone can see,
equitable prices can be set, and fair profit and satisfaction can be
had by all parties.
Money changers.
It is only when things are 'hidden', either purposely or otherwise,
that unfair profits and exorbitant economic rents result and
dissatisfaction.
Those who do their evil hidden are seen by God. It is not less evil,
or more evil, if it is seen.
>
> Part of that imperfect information would be the general honesty and frankness of the parties in their transaction. Mind you, there [to me anyway] are all sorts of 'intangible' markets we deal in every day [not just commodities]. Take between the genders and the 'games' they play. Honesty just does not do in such an arena where a male might find a female 'attractive' and simply go up and speak of his desires and wants; or the female divulge the entire 'costs' and price she would invoke for such 'goods' (herself) on the open market. Emotional goods are harder to measure of course.
Futures markets shudder in the hands of the Lord.
>
> Imperfect Information. It is surely the clay of the devil's workshop.
Dust, dust, it is all dust. It all belongs to the Lord.>
> I wonder, how honest and sincere can anyone be and still survive in this world?
Honest and sincere.
I might be good example, as I'm outspoken on my FEELINGS about race
and what is taking place in this society between the white female and
black male.
The color of their skins do not matter. Their very skins are the sames
as the grass grown one day and thrown in the stove the next.
No one sees the honesty [a virtue], but only lambasts me for the
content. I feel as I feel. What can I say; I don't act upon it...just
want to communicate there are 'costs' to all that is going down in
today's 'forced socialization'...and I am part of that 'cost' [gain
one thing, lose another].
> [me, again, not so me as an individual, but as an archtype male persona].
>
> It would be 'better' to maintain 'imperfect information' in this case and 'lie' to the world;
The truth is good. The truth is better, because it is better to tell
the truth. It is better to tell the truth, because the truth is best.
throughout history, has given much resistance to conquering hordes.
They simply adapt to who owns the territory.
Filthy still.
>
> I reach far afield here. Imperfect information. And if only we could PEER into the heart of anyone and see exactly WHO they really are.
WE ARE.
I'm sure we'd find a mixture of good and bad in everyone...but, I'd
like to think some at least TRY more. Does my 'sincerity' count for
nothing?
Anything to count, counts for something.
No, I suppose not; only if I 'think' like "they" want me to think.
I'm sorry; the white woman making hay with the black man is the most
vile thing to ever happen in this world [to someone like me].
The woman is black, the man is white, and yesterday, black men
attacked a white man who was with a black woman and he had to have
surgery on his eye.
And you'd definitely have to peer into my heart to know why that is.
She was EVERYTHING to me. And now, only brokeness exists.
>
She is everything. Hope exists.
> Hmmm...Breaking Bad was one of the best tv series to come down the pike. The dynamics of creating a 'bad man' out of a once upon a time 'good man'...a quite fascinating thing really. I would argue that in most cases, the fundamental reasons can be traced back to 'woman' in some way.True.
Waldo Tunnel
Sep 2, 2012, 6:26:46 PM9/2/12
to
Lay off the 'shrooms, Marty.
0 new messages