War declared on Wicca!
Talesin
WHEREAS the Celtic religious beliefs, practices, and world views that
existed in the ancient Celtic cultures developed as natural manifications
within these cultures
WHEREAS just as we hold steadfastly to our own culture, Wicca has the
propensity to "borrow" concepts, icons, and sacred relics from other
cultures and their religions. This has resulted in friction between people
of other traditons and Wiccans.
WHEREAS Wicca is not Celtic, nor is it derived from Celtic religion, and
Wiccan practitioners claim things to be Celtic that have never been a part
of the Celtic paradigm.
WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic religion, thus
preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of their
ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
WHEREAS these Wiccan practices dishonor our ancestors, distort the
fundamental truths, and interfere with the duty we have to preserve and
restore our Traditional beliefs.
WHEREAS many Wiccans embrace misinformation regardless of fact and refuse to
deal with conflicting ideas or views when faced with facts.
WHEREAS the two systems, Wicca and Celtic, contradict each other enough to
form a severe dissonance between the two.
WHEREAS Wicca is a religion whose philosophical foundation is vastly
different than the Celtic religion, and the reason upon which the whole of
the Celtic cosomology is based differs from that of Wicca.
WHEREAS the concepts that are traditionally part of Celtic religions reject
the Wiccan concept and analysis of the Celtic gods and goddesses.
WHEREAS the Wiccan "Rede", fundamental concepts, structure, and analytical
perspectives are not part of the Celtic paradgim and are untenable to Celtic
religion.
WHEREAS Wicca, as it is most commonly practiced, is a modern religion.
There is little or no connection between Gardner's creation and the Wicce of
the Middle ages, and no connection to the Celts; except for what modern
Wiccans have stolen and incorporated.
SO BE IT RESOLVED THAT:
11. We of the Touta Dumnonioi, and those who shall form Alliance with us,
henceforth
declare a Moral War against all persons who exploit, abuse, and misrepresent
the Sacred
Traditions and Spiritual Practices of our ancestors.
2. We call for our Druidic and Celtic brothers and sisters from around the
world to actively and vocally oppose this alarming and systematic
destruction of our Spirituality, and call for an immediate cease of the
exploitation of our Celtic Sacred Traditions.
3. We urge all those who join us to act decisively and boldly in our
present campaign to end the Celtic Spiritual destruction, keeping in mind
our highest duty as a Celtic descendant: to preserve the purity of our
precious traditions for our future generations, so that our children and our
children's children will survive and prosper in the Sacred Manner intended
for us by our Creator.
Dafydd Y Coed
Druis, Touta Dumnonioi
The Alliance is not limited to those following a Celtic Tradition, or of
Celtic descent. It is open to all Traditions and peoples who suffer in the
devaluation of their Spirituality by others.tJoin now to add your voice in
protecting our Spiritual Heritage! E-mail us to join the Alliance,
providing the information you would like to have posted. We support the
Native American and all cultures in the preservation of, and prevention of
theft from, their traditions.
http://www.homestead.com/dafydd/declaration2.html
I am not sure that I disagree with them
--
Talesin- Priest and Witch
"See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
- Mr. Garrison
ICQ: 39658232
Altair
<Witc...@psynet.net> wrote:
[blatant trolling snipped]
> http://www.homestead.com/dafydd/declaration2.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am not sure that I disagree with them
>
I am.
>
> --
> Talesin- Priest and Witch
>
> "See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
> - Mr. Garrison
>
> ICQ: 39658232
Blessed Be,
Altair
Diem, dies, docet.
Terry Bassett
than welcome to worship in any way they wish and make full use of anything
they find from any path. If this is their will so mote it be.
go forwards in confidence and in peace,
terry
x
Talesin wrote in message ...
>http://www.homestead.com/dafydd/declaration2.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I am not sure that I disagree with them
>
>
dirtybird...
ASATRU?!?!?!?
ever read those racists talk??
hee hee hee... truly lacking the entire theorie and ideology put forth by
the norse gods...
Terry Bassett <t.ba...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:7v64ra$gut$1...@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
Talesin
Altair <IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:271019991551152676%IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz...
| In article <OytR3.246$nl3...@newsfeed.slurp.net>, "Talesin"
| <Witc...@psynet.net> wrote:
|
| [blatant trolling snipped]
|
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > I am not sure that I disagree with them
| >
|
So you think that Wiccans have the right to usurp a culture and twist its
history and tradition to fit their own ideas? They have done the same thing
to Native Americans (e.g white people doing the Ghost Dance). Is that
acceptable to you as well?
Talesin
Terry Bassett <t.ba...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:7v64ra$gut$1...@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
| I 'definitely' disagree with them. As far as I am concerned everyone is
more
| than welcome to worship in any way they wish and make full use of anything
| they find from any path. If this is their will so mote it be.
|
| go forwards in confidence and in peace,
|
| terry
| x
| >WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic religion,
| thus
| >preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of their
| >ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
You see terry, this is the one that gives me the most trouble. Sure Wiccans
can do what they want, but they are destroying the culture in the process.
Talesin
There is a very small minority of the Volksh that do follow an "white
Teutonic European only" philosophy, but except for these few, they are not
racists. My GF's kindred has a black man in it.
You know, there are radical Dianic Wiccans. So I guess, by your standards,
we can say all Wiccans are sexists intolerant man haters.
--
Talesin- Priest and Witch
"See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
- Mr. Garrison
ICQ: 39658232
dirtybird... <white_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:H2zR3.2$9v2...@news1.sshe1.sk.home.com...
| That little rant sounds a lot like the ohh lets
sayyyyyyyyyyyyy............
| ASATRU?!?!?!?
|
| ever read those racists talk??
|
| hee hee hee... truly lacking the entire theorie and ideology put forth by
| the norse gods...
|
|
|
| Terry Bassett <t.ba...@virgin.net> wrote in message
| news:7v64ra$gut$1...@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
| > I 'definitely' disagree with them. As far as I am concerned everyone is
| more
| > than welcome to worship in any way they wish and make full use of
anything
| > they find from any path. If this is their will so mote it be.
| >
| > go forwards in confidence and in peace,
| >
| > terry
| > x
| >
| > Talesin wrote in message ...
| > >DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST EXPLOITERS OF CELTIC SPIRITUALITY
| > >
| > >WHEREAS the Celtic religious beliefs, practices, and world views that
| > >existed in the ancient Celtic cultures developed as natural
manifications
| > >within these cultures
| > >
| > >
| > >WHEREAS just as we hold steadfastly to our own culture, Wicca has the
| > >propensity to "borrow" concepts, icons, and sacred relics from other
| > >cultures and their religions. This has resulted in friction between
| people
| > >of other traditons and Wiccans.
| > >
| > >
| > >WHEREAS Wicca is not Celtic, nor is it derived from Celtic religion,
and
| > >Wiccan practitioners claim things to be Celtic that have never been a
| part
| > >of the Celtic paradigm.
| > >
| > >
| > >WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic religion,
| > thus
| > >preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of their
| > >ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
| > >
| > >
| > >http://www.homestead.com/dafydd/declaration2.html
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >I am not sure that I disagree with them
| > >
| > >
Dylan Clearbrook
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:53:50 +0100, "Terry Bassett"
<t.ba...@virgin.net> wrote:
>I 'definitely' disagree with them. As far as I am concerned everyone
>is more than welcome to worship in any way they wish and make full
>use of anything they find from any path. If this is their will so
>mote it be.
How ever, as Tales has pointed out, they do make some good points.
While Wicca is well known for borrowing concepts (hell, talk to any
freemason and they can tell you where some of our rituals came from),
They also are known for twisting things to fit their own desires.
It seems, to me at least, a natural thing for people to get upset
when they see some one taking a religion they think highly of and
rewritting it.
Now a Declaration of war might be a bit much. Were I in their shoes,
I image I would have settled just for refusal to acknowledge "Celtic"
Wiccans ans anything but two-bit imposters.
On the other hand.........Do Wiccans really care what others think?
I don't think so. <g>
Dylan Clearbrook
Reluctant HP
House of Reflecting Shadows
Kansas City, Missouri
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BirdTribe
Talesin wrote:
>
> DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST EXPLOITERS OF CELTIC SPIRITUALITY
>
> WHEREAS the Celtic religious beliefs, practices, and world views that
> existed in the ancient Celtic cultures developed as natural manifications
> within these cultures
The knowledge was held by families.Scribed within alchemical texts and was scary enough
to cause Papist ordered xenocide.
>
> WHEREAS just as we hold steadfastly to our own culture, Wicca has the
> propensity to "borrow" concepts, icons, and sacred relics from other
> cultures and their religions. This has resulted in friction between people
> of other traditons and Wiccans.
You seem to enjoy the main thrust of that friction by fucking with people.
>
> WHEREAS Wicca is not Celtic, nor is it derived from Celtic religion, and
> Wiccan practitioners claim things to be Celtic that have never been a part
> of the Celtic paradigm.
The Celts, BTW, came from North Africa and Sumeria long ago. Wicca in Celt means to
bend. As in will.
>
> WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic religion, thus
> preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of their
> ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
Check your history and alchemy pal. It is about something other than the xians would
have you think. You're blithering makes you look like an agent of the Papists.
>
> WHEREAS these Wiccan practices dishonor our ancestors, distort the
> fundamental truths, and interfere with the duty we have to preserve and
> restore our Traditional beliefs.
Let's start with the re-instating of the High Fire Stone ritual. I mean if you are
looking for fundamentals....
>
> WHEREAS many Wiccans embrace misinformation regardless of fact and refuse to
> deal with conflicting ideas or views when faced with facts.
Such as you will do.
>
> WHEREAS the two systems, Wicca and Celtic, contradict each other enough to
> form a severe dissonance between the two.
Prove it.
>
> WHEREAS Wicca is a religion whose philosophical foundation is vastly
> different than the Celtic religion, and the reason upon which the whole of
> the Celtic cosomology is based differs from that of Wicca.
Energetically, in pure practice, all magickal or energy manipulating religion based
around biomagnetic earth nodes and aetheronics are the same
>
> WHEREAS the concepts that are traditionally part of Celtic religions reject
> the Wiccan concept and analysis of the Celtic gods and goddesses.
One then must ask if this is anthropology we are dealing with or alchemical science.
>
> WHEREAS the Wiccan "Rede", fundamental concepts, structure, and analytical
> perspectives are not part of the Celtic paradgim and are untenable to Celtic
> religion.
It is a cute poem and much more equitable than this declaration.
>
> WHEREAS Wicca, as it is most commonly practiced, is a modern religion.
> There is little or no connection between Gardner's creation and the Wicce of
> the Middle ages, and no connection to the Celts; except for what modern
> Wiccans have stolen and incorporated.
Prove it. The word wicce goes back thousands of years to its root in Sumeria. The scions
of the Royal and Imperial Court of The Dragon were the Guardian Kings and Wood Lords
that settled the Celtic Lands.
>
> SO BE IT RESOLVED THAT:
>
> 11. We of the Touta Dumnonioi, and those who shall form Alliance with us,
> henceforth
> declare a Moral War against all persons who exploit, abuse, and misrepresent
> the Sacred
> Traditions and Spiritual Practices of our ancestors.
Well, you just declared war on yourself. You are so cute when you act crazed.
>
> 2. We call for our Druidic and Celtic brothers and sisters from around the
> world to actively and vocally oppose this alarming and systematic
> destruction of our Spirituality, and call for an immediate cease of the
> exploitation of our Celtic Sacred Traditions.
And I call for the great mastiff of knowledge to bite you on the ass with the real deal.
>
> 3. We urge all those who join us to act decisively and boldly in our
> present campaign to end the Celtic Spiritual destruction, keeping in mind
> our highest duty as a Celtic descendant: to preserve the purity of our
> precious traditions for our future generations, so that our children and our
> children's children will survive and prosper in the Sacred Manner intended
> for us by our Creator.
>
> Dafydd Y Coed
>
> Druis, Touta Dumnonioi
>
> The Alliance is not limited to those following a Celtic Tradition, or of
> Celtic descent. It is open to all Traditions and peoples who suffer in the
> devaluation of their Spirituality by others.tJoin now to add your voice in
> protecting our Spiritual Heritage! E-mail us to join the Alliance,
> providing the information you would like to have posted. We support the
> Native American and all cultures in the preservation of, and prevention of
> theft from, their traditions.
>
> http://www.homestead.com/dafydd/declaration2.html
>
> I am not sure that I disagree with them
Another bunch of radicals who do their cause no justice. This ain't much different from
the Papal Bull or The Witches Hammer. Would you suggest burning, drowning or torn
nipples to make these bad wicca practioners stop?
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
>
> --
> Talesin- Priest and Witch
>
> "See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
> - Mr. Garrison
>
> ICQ: 39658232
--
*If the whole world is a stage I want better sound and lighting*
http://www.netsentinel.net/BirdTribeMovie.html
http://www.netsentinel.net - get yer Shockwave plugins loaded!
Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean
has chosen only that which may inflame to post.
Here is a disclaimer from the very web page he quotes:
"NOTICE:
Nothing in this web site is an overall indictment of the Wicca
religion. Wicca can be a valid and powerful path for those who
walk it in truth and understand it . However, there are many Wiccans
who believe that Wicca is the descendant of Celtic
religious ways, or take from Celtic tradition, and those who call
themselves as following a Wiccan-Celtic path. It is these who
dilute our Celtic spiritual beliefs and methodologies, and against whom
our battle rages."
And, also, a grand total of 159 people have viewed the page since August
1999 and that includes twice by me and at least once by Talesin.
So much for Talesin's dramatic gestures.
Terry
John/Jo Mulvey
Witch- I guess My coven and I will be the first against the wall come the
revolution, The fact is, the tradition I follow has Celtic roots- we have a
sun king every year- celebrate the festivals with traditions that are woven
into the folkloric tapestry of the people. The God of my ancestors will
determine my destiny, and no one but the Lord and Lady I serve has the right
to judge how I worship, when where or with whom.
There is meanness here- and pot stirring- Talesin seems to me to be looking
for a game of "Let's you and him fight" I won't play.
--
I find that the harder I work, the more good fortune I seem to have. _Thomas
Jefferson
Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean <slo...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:381709E5...@flash.net...
Stephani Nichelle
>
> So you think all Asatru are racists?
> There is a very small minority of the Volksh that do follow an "white
> Teutonic European only" philosophy, but except for these few, they are not
> racists. My GF's kindred has a black man in it.
> You know, there are radical Dianic Wiccans. So I guess, by your standards,
> we can say all Wiccans are sexists intolerant man haters.
Hm..
I guess maybe now I'm glad I found the religion on my own, while
searching for a deeper understanding of what I inheritantly believed to
be true. I didn't even know about Wicca while doing my searching. I
thought about subjects, from "Why does going to church upset me so
much?" to "What happens when we die?". I was uncomfortable thinking
about laying in the ground while I waited for some man to decide it was
time for his "Second Coming" so I could get up outta the ground - I'm a
bit claustrophobic, I never would have made it ;)
Anyway.. back in 1990 when I found my way to the Wiccan Path, I only
knew one other person who was on the same trail. I got books and did
independant study. And I realized, as time went on, that Wicca took
concepts from other religions and applied it to their own. That never
bothered me, because that's how I found myself here. I took all the
things I believed from various sources and at first kinda thought "ok,
this is what I believe, I just don't have a name for it".
As time went on, I met others, but I have yet to meet a black person
involved in the religion, at least locally, other than myself. Yep, ol'
Stephani Nichelle is a 30 year old chubby (but very cute if I do say so
myself lol) Afro-American Witch. Tales, I could have read your comment
wrong, but it sounded like you were amazed that there's a black man in
your gf's kindred. I live in a small area, where the open minded people
are few and far between, and I don't expect to find a black person
*here* that is interested in Wicca. But I'm also pretty colourblind
when it comes to that kind of stuff. I look at people as being just
that, people. I hope the folks that I meet also look at me as being a
shade of grey. :)
Blessed Be,
Stephani
Steve
Exactly how are they destroying the culture? Please explain.
Blessed be, Lady Dionne
Talesin wrote:
> Terry Bassett <t.ba...@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:7v64ra$gut$1...@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
> | I 'definitely' disagree with them. As far as I am concerned everyone is
> more
> | than welcome to worship in any way they wish and make full use of anything
> | they find from any path. If this is their will so mote it be.
> |
> | go forwards in confidence and in peace,
> |
> | terry
> | x
>
> | >WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic religion,
> | thus
> | >preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of their
> | >ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
>
> You see terry, this is the one that gives me the most trouble. Sure Wiccans
> can do what they want, but they are destroying the culture in the process.
>
Steve
All this guilty liberal to-and-fro breast beating appears
to be the by-product of a bunch of spoiled middle class twits. No new idea
comes without the modification of an old one. Get Lives.
Blessed Be, Lady Dionne
Talesin wrote:
> Altair <IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:271019991551152676%IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz...
> | In article <OytR3.246$nl3...@newsfeed.slurp.net>, "Talesin"
> | <Witc...@psynet.net> wrote:
> |
> | [blatant trolling snipped]
> |
> | > http://www.homestead.com/dafydd/declaration2.html
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > I am not sure that I disagree with them
> | >
> |
> | I am.
>
> So you think that Wiccans have the right to usurp a culture and twist its
> history and tradition to fit their own ideas? They have done the same thing
> to Native Americans (e.g white people doing the Ghost Dance). Is that
> acceptable to you as well?
>
Bart Lidofsky
: You see terry, this is the one that gives me the most trouble. Sure Wiccans
: can do what they want, but they are destroying the culture in the process.
The culture was destroyed centuries ago.
Bart Lidofsky
Talesin
Who are you talking to? I didn't write this, I just posted it
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
+ren+
..various responses to various quotes.
> WHEREAS Wicca is not Celtic
The primary culture of Wicca is English. Since the English culture has
been influenced by the Irish, Welsh, and Scots, then it does contain
elements of Celtic culture.
> nor is it derived from Celtic religion
Only Archeology and a few Latin historical accounts suggest what Celtic
religion may have been. Oral tradition isn't hard evidence. If we follow
the development of religion in other early cultures we might suggest that
Celtic religion contained shamanistic aspects.
> and Wiccan practitioners claim things to be Celtic that have never
> been a part of the Celtic paradigm.
The Celtic paradigm? What are you trying to create? ..a master race?
> The Celts, BTW, came from North Africa and Sumeria long ago.
The Celtic culture probably originated from the people that the Greeks
called, the Keltoi. They were from a region called Hallstat that is
located in present day Germany. Historical accounts suggest that the Celts
had Scandanavian features. Archeological and the study of the language
suggest an Indo-European origin and Greek origin. However, the Greek
sailors we are talking about might originally be from Scythia (areas of
East Europe and Russia.) What this says is that the Celtic culture and
religion has many origins. There is no one birth place or specific
identity of the Celts. What culture we see today is the result of the
federal organization after the Latin model around the early common era.
> Wicca in Celt means to bend. As in will.
Celt isn't a language. Gaelic is. Wicca is a Anglo-Brythonic word which
means 'idol learners' (those who bend fate.)
> WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic religion
Wiccans believe there is no one true religion. If they present themselves
as such then those particular individuals are wrong.
> thus preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of
> their ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
Everyone honors the gods in their own way. To dishonor them is to shed
blood in their names.
> Check your history and alchemy pal.
If anyone claims to be a traditional witch and brags about it and
constantly attacks those who are of non-familial, non-hsitorical variety,
then that tells me a few things.
A real traditional witch would be secure in his/her identity and not
bother to defend that identity by trying to weed out poseurs.
> It is about something other than the xians would have you think.
A real American traditional witch may be pretending to be a Christian. My
mentor sat beside me in chapel every Wednesday afternoon. The girl who
made me the being I am today sat next to my mother on Sunday morning.
> ancestors, distort the fundamental truths, and interfere with the
The fundemental truths of witchcraft are the spells that work. Let the
results of the working be the testament.
> duty we have to preserve and restore our Traditional beliefs.
One must first restore before they may preserve.
> what modern Wiccans have stolen and incorporated.
You call it stealing. There are no new ideas under the Sun. Information
should remain free to circulate. Because we don't limit ourselves to one
system, we are better.
> word wicce goes back thousands of years to its root in Sumeria.
The Sumerians were Indo-Europeans. The word 'wicce' goes back to
Indo-Europeans. I can think of other cultures dominated by them. The
Greeks, the Egyptians, the Scythians, all have been conquered by the
Battle Axe Culture. That's what archeology tells us. The Sumerians are one
of many great Indo-European culutures. The word most likely has earlier
origins.
> scions of the Royal and Imperial Court of The Dragon were the Guardian
> Kings and Wood Lords
Now you're reaching. The god of the Battle Axe people was most likely a
dragon within a Sun called Bal, or Ba'al. Bal would ride around in his Sun
Chariot in much the same way the Hyksos(Indo-Europeans) would, killing
everyone and taking them over.
> IT RESOLVED THAT: 11. We of the Touta Dumnonioi,
Wrong. 'Touta Dumnonioi' is a fabrication. The People of Dana originated
in Denmark. The Celts went there to live. They adopted Dana as their
Goddess. These same people conquered Ireland and were known as the Tuatha
De Danan. That's not a mystery. It's archeological fact.
> shall form Alliance with us, henceforth declare a Moral War
The only war I declair is one against intolerance. May the intolerant die!
All die, die, die! :P
Mortality
>All die, die, die! :P
>
Excellent job, ren. May this personality stay awhile longer?
:)
++Mortality++
Most people are stupid, trying to get in line with society; like lemmings
marching to their collective death.
Emperor Fang
Talesin wrote:
> So you think that Wiccans have the right to usurp a culture and twist its
> history and tradition to fit their own ideas?
So do you think that Talesin has the right to usurp a religion and twist its
teachings in order to stroke his bloated ego?
--
Cardinal Fang ho...@earthlink.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------
13th Rule of Creationism: Interpret challenge as a personal insult.
16th Rule of Creationism: When all else fails.....whine.
Talesin
"real" Celtic culture it replaces the true culture. For example, take the
Celtic Gods for example. I vicious, rowdy, violent bunch that liked to
drink, fuck, and generally create total chaos. I vital part of Celtic
culture.
If you pick up a Wiccan book that discusses Celtic religion, you would think
they were all little jesuses (jesi?). Since the Deities reflect the culture,
this makes the culture into something it never was. It destroys it.
--
Talesin- Priest and Witch
"See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
- Mr. Garrison
ICQ: 39658232
Steve <sna...@net1plus.com> wrote in message
news:38172F47...@net1plus.com...
| Tales:
| Exactly how are they destroying the culture? Please explain.
| Blessed be, Lady Dionne
|
| Talesin wrote:
|
| > Terry Bassett <t.ba...@virgin.net> wrote in message
| > news:7v64ra$gut$1...@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
| > | I 'definitely' disagree with them. As far as I am concerned everyone
is
| > more
| > | than welcome to worship in any way they wish and make full use of
anything
| > | they find from any path. If this is their will so mote it be.
| > |
| > | go forwards in confidence and in peace,
| > |
| > | terry
| > | x
| >
| > | >WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic
religion,
| > | thus
| > | >preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of
their
| > | >ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
| >
| > You see terry, this is the one that gives me the most trouble. Sure
Wiccans
| > can do what they want, but they are destroying the culture in the
process.
| >
Joker & Harley in Arkham
Scarlett
the spam fighting cat
Padraic Brown
: DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST EXPLOITERS OF CELTIC SPIRITUALITY
: 11. We of the Touta Dumnonioi, and those who shall form Alliance with us,
I like this. They go on about people stealing bits of culture and
religion from their ancestors, but then they never bother to learn to
spell the names right. "Tuta Dumnonioi" means "Folk of a Dumnonian
(man)". They might better try "Tuta Dumnonia", "Dumnonian Folk" or "Tuta
Dumnonion", "Tribe of the Dumnonians".
: Dafydd Y Coed
Dametoceton?
: Druis, Touta Dumnonioi
Perhaps "Druida" or "Druides".
Padraic.
Steve
However for anyone involved in the true culture (if there is in fact
such a thing, considering word of mouth, colloquialism, entomology and so forth)
it has not been destroyed at all (unlike say the Seventh Cavalry doing target
practice with the locals or Hitler deciding that jews were an unnecessary life
form.) False culture only replaces genuine culture A: When the original source
has been expunged and B: When there is no one left who actually cares to discern
the difference. Also on this topic any person (witch or otherwise) who accepts
one source of data, without further research deserves the ignorance they have
buried them self in.
Silverhawk
news:3817B81E...@earthlink.net...
> Wicca is a modern religion. Modern religion may often portray deities as
> different than how the ancient people saw them....and I am certain that
the
> Christian god has had many different incarnations.
Old Testament: Hateful, vengeful, overbearing
New Testament: Love and joy-joy
Or, maybe, there was a changing of the guard, somewhere, that the rest of us
missed :)
B*B,
Silverhawk
Altair
<Witc...@psynet.net> wrote:
> Altair <IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:271019991551152676%IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz...
> | In article <OytR3.246$nl3...@newsfeed.slurp.net>, "Talesin"
> | <Witc...@psynet.net> wrote:
> |
> | [blatant trolling snipped]
> |
> | > http://www.homestead.com/dafydd/declaration2.html
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > I am not sure that I disagree with them
> | >
> |
> | I am.
>
> So you think that Wiccans have the right to usurp a culture and twist its
> history and tradition to fit their own ideas? They have done the same thing
> to Native Americans (e.g white people doing the Ghost Dance). Is that
> acceptable to you as well?
Regardless of my personal views on the origin and validity of Wicca, I
support the right to religious freedom, including freedom from libel,
slander and threats.
>
> --
> Talesin- Priest and Witch
>
> "See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
> - Mr. Garrison
>
> ICQ: 39658232
Blessed Be,
Altair
Diem, dies, docet.
Homepage:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Cafe/8564/page-02.html
Altair
most need to hear it.......
In article
<Pine.BSI.3.96.991027...@usr06.primenet.com>, +ren+
<r...@netgoths.com> wrote:
> ..various responses to various quotes.
>
> > WHEREAS Wicca is not Celtic
>
> The primary culture of Wicca is English. Since the English culture has
> been influenced by the Irish, Welsh, and Scots, then it does contain
> elements of Celtic culture.
>
> > nor is it derived from Celtic religion
>
> Only Archeology and a few Latin historical accounts suggest what Celtic
> religion may have been. Oral tradition isn't hard evidence. If we follow
> the development of religion in other early cultures we might suggest that
> Celtic religion contained shamanistic aspects.
>
> > and Wiccan practitioners claim things to be Celtic that have never
> > been a part of the Celtic paradigm.
>
> The Celtic paradigm? What are you trying to create? ..a master race?
>
> > The Celts, BTW, came from North Africa and Sumeria long ago.
>
> The Celtic culture probably originated from the people that the Greeks
> called, the Keltoi. They were from a region called Hallstat that is
> located in present day Germany. Historical accounts suggest that the Celts
> had Scandanavian features. Archeological and the study of the language
> suggest an Indo-European origin and Greek origin. However, the Greek
> sailors we are talking about might originally be from Scythia (areas of
> East Europe and Russia.) What this says is that the Celtic culture and
> religion has many origins. There is no one birth place or specific
> identity of the Celts. What culture we see today is the result of the
> federal organization after the Latin model around the early common era.
>
> > Wicca in Celt means to bend. As in will.
>
> Celt isn't a language. Gaelic is. Wicca is a Anglo-Brythonic word which
> means 'idol learners' (those who bend fate.)
>
> > WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic religion
>
> Wiccans believe there is no one true religion. If they present themselves
> as such then those particular individuals are wrong.
>
> > thus preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of
> > their ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
>
> Everyone honors the gods in their own way. To dishonor them is to shed
> blood in their names.
>
> > Check your history and alchemy pal.
>
> If anyone claims to be a traditional witch and brags about it and
> constantly attacks those who are of non-familial, non-hsitorical variety,
> then that tells me a few things.
>
> A real traditional witch would be secure in his/her identity and not
> bother to defend that identity by trying to weed out poseurs.
>
> > It is about something other than the xians would have you think.
>
> A real American traditional witch may be pretending to be a Christian. My
> mentor sat beside me in chapel every Wednesday afternoon. The girl who
> made me the being I am today sat next to my mother on Sunday morning.
>
> > ancestors, distort the fundamental truths, and interfere with the
>
> The fundemental truths of witchcraft are the spells that work. Let the
> results of the working be the testament.
>
> > duty we have to preserve and restore our Traditional beliefs.
>
> One must first restore before they may preserve.
>
> > what modern Wiccans have stolen and incorporated.
>
> You call it stealing. There are no new ideas under the Sun. Information
> should remain free to circulate. Because we don't limit ourselves to one
> system, we are better.
>
> > word wicce goes back thousands of years to its root in Sumeria.
>
> The Sumerians were Indo-Europeans. The word 'wicce' goes back to
> Indo-Europeans. I can think of other cultures dominated by them. The
> Greeks, the Egyptians, the Scythians, all have been conquered by the
> Battle Axe Culture. That's what archeology tells us. The Sumerians are one
> of many great Indo-European culutures. The word most likely has earlier
> origins.
>
> > scions of the Royal and Imperial Court of The Dragon were the Guardian
> > Kings and Wood Lords
>
> Now you're reaching. The god of the Battle Axe people was most likely a
> dragon within a Sun called Bal, or Ba'al. Bal would ride around in his Sun
> Chariot in much the same way the Hyksos(Indo-Europeans) would, killing
> everyone and taking them over.
>
> > IT RESOLVED THAT: 11. We of the Touta Dumnonioi,
>
> Wrong. 'Touta Dumnonioi' is a fabrication. The People of Dana originated
> in Denmark. The Celts went there to live. They adopted Dana as their
> Goddess. These same people conquered Ireland and were known as the Tuatha
> De Danan. That's not a mystery. It's archeological fact.
>
> > shall form Alliance with us, henceforth declare a Moral War
>
> The only war I declair is one against intolerance. May the intolerant die!
> All die, die, die! :P
Blessed Be,
Altair
understanding. Criticising "Celtic Wicca", then comparing and
contrasting with "Celtic culture" and "Celtic religion" [sic] is
meaningless unless you make plain exactly what you are referring to by
each of these terms.
In article <lQNR3.1098$nl3....@newsfeed.slurp.net>, "Talesin"
<Witc...@psynet.net> wrote:
> Okay, when someone picks up a book on Celtic Wicca and sees it presented as
> "real" Celtic culture it replaces the true culture. For example, take the
> Celtic Gods for example. I vicious, rowdy, violent bunch that liked to
> drink, fuck, and generally create total chaos. I vital part of Celtic
> culture.
> If you pick up a Wiccan book that discusses Celtic religion, you would think
> they were all little jesuses (jesi?). Since the Deities reflect the culture,
> this makes the culture into something it never was. It destroys it.
>
> --
> Talesin- Priest and Witch
>
> "See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
> - Mr. Garrison
>
> ICQ: 39658232
>
>
>
> Steve <sna...@net1plus.com> wrote in message
> news:38172F47...@net1plus.com...
> | Tales:
> | Exactly how are they destroying the culture? Please explain.
> | Blessed be, Lady Dionne
> |
> | Talesin wrote:
> |
> | > Terry Bassett <t.ba...@virgin.net> wrote in message
> | > news:7v64ra$gut$1...@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
> | > | I 'definitely' disagree with them. As far as I am concerned everyone
> is
> | > more
> | > | than welcome to worship in any way they wish and make full use of
> anything
> | > | they find from any path. If this is their will so mote it be.
> | > |
> | > | go forwards in confidence and in peace,
> | > |
> | > | terry
> | > | x
> | >
> | > | >WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic
> religion,
> | > | thus
> | > | >preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of
> their
> | > | >ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
> | >
> | > You see terry, this is the one that gives me the most trouble. Sure
> Wiccans
> | > can do what they want, but they are destroying the culture in the
> process.
> | >
> | > --
> | > Talesin- Priest and Witch
> | >
> | > "See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
> | > - Mr. Garrison
> | >
> | > ICQ: 39658232
> |
Blessed Be,
DarkHalf
<v...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Does this mean I gotta take ren out of the kill file?
>
>Scarlett
>the spam fighting cat
>
>Mortality wrote:
>
>> >The only war I declair is one against intolerance. May the intolerant die!
>> >All die, die, die! :P
>> >
>>
>> Excellent job, ren. May this personality stay awhile longer?
For a while. Just wish this personality of his could kill the
others...In their sleep, of course. ;p
--
Darkhalf. I use Mindspring. You figure it out.
Angband Code
(http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/harris/angband/code.html):
Z/A+(O) W !H D c-- f- PV+ s- TT- d P+ M+
C S I+ So-- B- ac GHB- SQ RQ++ V F:Random Quests
You laugh because I'm different--I laugh because you're all the same
Emperor Fang
Talesin wrote:
> Okay, when someone picks up a book on Celtic Wicca and sees it presented as
> "real" Celtic culture it replaces the true culture. For example, take the
> Celtic Gods for example. I vicious, rowdy, violent bunch that liked to
> drink, fuck, and generally create total chaos. I vital part of Celtic
> culture.
> If you pick up a Wiccan book that discusses Celtic religion, you would think
> they were all little jesuses (jesi?).
All Wiccan books? I think it depends on the author. As far as trying to rescue
Celtic religion from who they label the Enemy, my stance is that someone or many
someones made every religion or belief system up somewhere, somewhen. It is
hardly sacrosanct. Wicca is more a revival of some of said old beliefs adjusted
for better acceptance by a modern society, not the "Old Religion" passed down
from an unbroken Celtic heritage.
Wicca is a modern religion. Modern religion may often portray deities as
different than how the ancient people saw them....and I am certain that the
Christian god has had many different incarnations.
> Since the Deities reflect the culture,
> this makes the culture into something it never was. It destroys it.
Does it?
Sean MacUisdin
>
> Name your sources. Making gross generalisations aids no-ones
> understanding. Criticising "Celtic Wicca", then comparing and
> contrasting with "Celtic culture" and "Celtic religion" [sic] is
> meaningless unless you make plain exactly what you are referring to by
> each of these terms.
There is not a lot known about Celtic religion, and Celtic religion is
itself a misnomer as well. The Romans recorded their impressions of the
Celtic gods, however they often applied them to their own in order to
understand them. Though there are a few Celtic gods that are well known,
Cernunnos, Brigid, Lugh, Taranus etc. many Celts worshipped rocks,
trees, and other objects as symbols of their deities.
I am also waiting in eager anticipation for his sources and maybe even
some knowledge. Won't hold my breath though.
Air muir 's air tir,
Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
Remove 'mac' to reply.
"But the howling of dogs beside me,
And the wail of the old heroes,
And the weeping of the woman turns,
'Tis that vexes my heart."
"Hey sexy moma, wanna kill all humans?" - Bender
Sean MacUisdin
>
> Talesin wrote:
>
> > Okay, when someone picks up a book on Celtic Wicca and sees it presented as
> > "real" Celtic culture it replaces the true culture. For example, take the
> > Celtic Gods for example. I vicious, rowdy, violent bunch that liked to
> > drink, fuck, and generally create total chaos. I vital part of Celtic
> > culture.
> > If you pick up a Wiccan book that discusses Celtic religion, you would think
> > they were all little jesuses (jesi?).
>
> All Wiccan books? I think it depends on the author.
One of the worst offenders for redefining the Celtic tradition is
Raymond Buckland, one of Tales' great heroes.
Terry Bassett
covens following a pure thread to ensure that nothing of great value is
lost. I know for a fact that this is true in the UK.
Regarding those who are seeking a specific path, again I feel confident that
they will find what they need. The greater powers have a habit of providing
just what is needed, (and no more), at the appropriate time.
Wicca is still in its youth and, (just as anyone or anything that passes
through those stages prior to maturity), it is still a hotchpotch of
conflicting ideas. True this can be a painful process, not only for Wicca
but also for those who observe its struggle, in a similar manner to the
experience shared by a parent and teenage child.
IMHO the greatest danger presented by Wicca is to itself, in that it almost
seems to be trying to follow the Christians with so many complicated rules
and regulations plus its laughable rule of three which seems solely designed
to make Wiccans be good.
Surely some of the greatest attractions of traditional witchcraft are its
lack of rules and regulations, its lack of bias against the religious
beliefs of others and its wide variation of similar but separate paths which
provide all with the opportunity to find their niche. This makes such a
declaration of war laughable to say the least.
go forwards in confidence and in peace,
terry
x
Talesin wrote in message ...
>
Talesin
Good points terry
Talesin
rushing us toward both A and B at breakneck speed. As far as accepting one
source of data, how many people think Silver Ravenwolf or even Llewellyn is
the end all and be all of not only Witchcraft, but religion and culture in
general? How many other historical or anthropological books has the
*average* Llewellyn patron read?
--
Talesin- Priest and Witch
"See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
- Mr. Garrison
ICQ: 39658232
Steve <sna...@net1plus.com> wrote in message
news:3817BA93...@net1plus.com...
| Merry Meet:
| However for anyone involved in the true culture (if there is
in fact
| such a thing, considering word of mouth, colloquialism, entomology and so
forth)
| it has not been destroyed at all (unlike say the Seventh Cavalry doing
target
| practice with the locals or Hitler deciding that jews were an unnecessary
life
| form.) False culture only replaces genuine culture A: When the original
source
| has been expunged and B: When there is no one left who actually cares to
discern
| the difference. Also on this topic any person (witch or otherwise) who
accepts
| one source of data, without further research deserves the ignorance they
have
| buried them self in.
| Blessed be, Lady Dionne
|
| Talesin wrote:
|
| > Okay, when someone picks up a book on Celtic Wicca and sees it presented
as
| > "real" Celtic culture it replaces the true culture. For example, take
the
| > Celtic Gods for example. I vicious, rowdy, violent bunch that liked to
| > drink, fuck, and generally create total chaos. I vital part of Celtic
| > culture.
| > If you pick up a Wiccan book that discusses Celtic religion, you would
think
| > they were all little jesuses (jesi?). Since the Deities reflect the
culture,
| > this makes the culture into something it never was. It destroys it.
| >
| > --
| > Talesin- Priest and Witch
| >
| > "See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
| > - Mr. Garrison
| >
| > ICQ: 39658232
| >
| > Steve <sna...@net1plus.com> wrote in message
| > news:38172F47...@net1plus.com...
| > | Tales:
| > | Exactly how are they destroying the culture? Please
explain.
| > | Blessed be, Lady Dionne
| > |
| > | Talesin wrote:
| > |
| > | > Terry Bassett <t.ba...@virgin.net> wrote in message
| > | > news:7v64ra$gut$1...@nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net...
| > | > | I 'definitely' disagree with them. As far as I am concerned
everyone
| > is
| > | > more
| > | > | than welcome to worship in any way they wish and make full use of
| > anything
| > | > | they find from any path. If this is their will so mote it be.
| > | > |
| > | > | go forwards in confidence and in peace,
| > | > |
| > | > | terry
| > | > | x
| > | >
| > | > | >WHEREAS Wiccans often present themselves as the "true" Celtic
| > religion,
| > | > | thus
| > | > | >preventing some people from finding their way back to the path of
| > their
| > | > | >ancestors, which would honor the gods properly.
| > | >
| > | > You see terry, this is the one that gives me the most trouble. Sure
| > Wiccans
| > | > can do what they want, but they are destroying the culture in the
| > process.
| > | >
Jeanine Gravitt
Jeanine Gravitt
"History is made at Night...Character is what we are in the Dark!"--Lord
John Worphin/Dr.Emilio Lizardo, 'Buckaroo Banzai'
http://community.webtv.net/marchhare32/Story
(My The Wild Wild West Fan Fiction)
http://community.webtv.net/marchhare32/MAGICPANTSTheWild
(The Wild Wild West, The SERIES, Droolie Visitors Center....updated
regularly)
Snakes
I have to agree here with you.
> I agree Dionne, but I still maintain that the current trend in Wicca is
> rushing us toward both A and B at breakneck speed. As far as accepting one
> source of data, how many people think Silver Ravenwolf or even Llewellyn is
> the end all and be all of not only Witchcraft, but religion and culture in
> general?
Too many. Sad, but true.
> How many other historical or anthropological books has the
> *average* Llewellyn patron read?
Not enough. The sad fact is, I have found too many who shut
themselves off from any other source of info i/e philosophy, physics, history,
culture etc.
Blessed Be, Lady Dionne
maf1029
Talesin wrote in message ...
>
history and tradition to fit their own ideas? They have done the same thing
to Native Americans (e.g white people doing the Ghost Dance). Is that
>
>--
>Talesin- Priest and Witch
Wow. You're going to be dead/unveiled/exfoliated/re-upholstered in 4 days
and here you are.......making the time to share with us all your insights
and highly educated opinions. How special.
Tegan
Quests", for $500.00 a pop. Glossy brochures and everything. Yep, real
spiruhchul alright.
Many Blessings,
Tegan :)
--
There are always helpers and signs to point the way for anyone who is
willing to follow them.
"If you believed the FBI about Leonard Peltier, did you also
believe the FBI six years ago about Waco?
If so, is it time to re-evaluate your belief in the FBI
about Leonard, too?" - P.P.
NOVEMBER ~ FREE PELTIER!!!
Talesin <Witc...@psynet.net> wrote in article
<dGBR3.501$nl3....@newsfeed.slurp.net>...
>
> Altair <IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz> wrote in message
>
news:271019991551152676%IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz...
> | In article <OytR3.246$nl3...@newsfeed.slurp.net>, "Talesin"
> | <Witc...@psynet.net> wrote:
> |
> | [blatant trolling snipped]
> |
> | > http://www.homestead.com/dafydd/declaration2.html
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > I am not sure that I disagree with them
> | >
> |
> | I am.
>
> So you think that Wiccans have the right to usurp a culture and twist its
> history and tradition to fit their own ideas? They have done the same
thing
> to Native Americans (e.g white people doing the Ghost Dance). Is that
> acceptable to you as well?
>
> --
> Talesin- Priest and Witch
>
BirdTribe
Tegan wrote:
>
> My favorite are the plastic shamans that sell "Genuine Indian Vision
> Quests", for $500.00 a pop. Glossy brochures and everything. Yep, real
> spiruhchul alright.
>
> Many Blessings,
I teamed up with Two Horses last year after I had Ghost Wolf (Italian wannabe/plastic
shaman/ghost dance faker) pissed at me for flaming his sorry fraudulent ass on AFAB. He
kept writing to my email insulting me so I dug around and found outstanding warrants for
fraud for Robert Franzone, and with the help of Two Horses and local Indians who busted
up his Ghost Dance, and sent him running, the authorities were alerted as to his true
identity and he was tracked to a New Orleans hotel room and arrested with a 500 dollar a
day heroin habit. Great shaman my ass. Fat Italian wannabe...definitely.
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
--
*If the whole world is a stage I want better sound and lighting*
http://www.netsentinel.net/BirdTribeMovie.html
http://www.netsentinel.net - get yer Shockwave plugins loaded!
Panacea
> I agree Dionne, but I still maintain that the current trend in Wicca is
> rushing us toward both A and B at breakneck speed. As far as accepting
one
> source of data, how many people think Silver Ravenwolf or even Llewellyn
is
> the end all and be all of not only Witchcraft, but religion and culture
in
> *average* Llewellyn patron read?
Dude.
Assuming for the purposes of argument that you aren't a total faking wanker
and that somewhere along the line you've taken membership in one or more
mystery traditions...
Don't you remember the difference between the Outer and the Inner Court?
Llewellyn et al are PUBLISHING HOUSES. They PUBLISH stuff. That means
putting it out where the PUBLIC, from my teenaged wannabe neighbor kid to
my Southern Baptist Mama, can trot down to the nearest bookshop and order
what they can't pick up directly off the shelf.
Let them PUBLISH for the PUBLIC all the crap and misinformation they like.
The discerning student will wade through several volumes of this and figure
out the difference.
Thena
Talesin
Bettijean" <slo...@flash.net> wrote:
> As usual Talesin is using his meanness of spirit and lying
> abilities
> has chosen only that which may inflame to post.
I posted the URL you followed you stupid fuck
Jaguar
>On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Panacea wrote:
> > general? How many other historical or anthropological books has the
> > *average* Llewellyn patron read?
> Llewellyn et al are PUBLISHING HOUSES. They PUBLISH stuff. That means
> putting it out where the PUBLIC, from my teenaged wannabe neighbor kid to
> my Southern Baptist Mama, can trot down to the nearest bookshop and order
> what they can't pick up directly off the shelf.
What they tend to publish are shoddly researched books, often with glaring
errors in the mythology they are presenting.
No matter what the (mythological) topic - the ritual & myth format turns
out wiccan.
It is book like that that have made 'pagan' scholarship -in other words a
serious study at ancient mythology & ritual - a joke amoungst the
scholostic community.
I don't see how taking a mythology, pounding it through the 'wicca' hole
(square peg, round hole, big hammer) to make it look more like wicca,
whilst slaughtering the original is of any help.
It is much along the lines of learning about Christian rituals & myths
from books written by an othodox Jew.
> Let them PUBLISH for the PUBLIC all the crap and misinformation they like.
> The discerning student will wade through several volumes of this and figure
> out the difference.
Would that were the case.
Sadly too many times it is not.
(I can't count the times I have had folk tell me what a nice, peaceful,
matriarchal culture the ancient Celts were)
How can a new person be able to judge a good source from a bad one, when
not taught to do so? Or not familiar with the myths & other sources?
Jaguar
> Thena
>
>
Jaguar
>On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, Emperor Fang wrote:
> > Talesin wrote:
> > So you think that Wiccans have the right to usurp a culture and twist its
> > history and tradition to fit their own ideas?
> So do you think that Talesin has the right to usurp a religion and twist its
> teachings in order to stroke his bloated ego?
He DOES have a point. Alot of the Llewellyn stuff is shoddily reasearched.
They take any mythology & hammer it into the Lord & Lady, 4 directions
format. Even if they have to ignore great chunks of it to do so.
My favorite "Bad" book example was one on 'Celtic' runes.
One would expect to open the pages & find a discussion of Ogham stuff yes?
But NOOOOOOOOOO
Open the pages, you find the NORSE runes.
Now, not being able to tell apart two different cultures is very bad.
Jaguar
wishes had bought book
for glaring "BAD" source
example....
Jaguar
>On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, BirdTribe wrote:
> > WHEREAS the Celtic religious beliefs, practices, and world views that
> > existed in the ancient Celtic cultures developed as natural manifications
> > within these cultures
> The knowledge was held by families.Scribed within alchemical texts
> and was scary enough to cause Papist ordered xenocide.
The symbols in Wicca & the Celtic are not all the same, niether are the
myth patterns. Wicca is a modern sythesis -of fantasy, feminisim &
ancient folklore & myth thrown in from many diferent cultures.
Celtic myth is the mythology of the tribes we call "Celts"
One culture, not a synthesis of many diverse cultures, world wide, like
Wicca.
> > WHEREAS Wicca is not Celtic, nor is it derived from Celtic religion, and
> > Wiccan practitioners claim things to be Celtic that have never been
> > a part of the Celtic paradigm.
>
> The Celts, BTW, came from North Africa and Sumeria long ago.
> Wicca in Celt means to bend. As in will.
Now you will have to cough up a good referance for that dear.
The Celts are part of the Indo-european language familiy to be sure.
Celtic tribes were inhabiting Europe north of the Alps as early as the
Bronze Age.
No where have I seen a referance of the originating in Sumeria or North
Africa.
As for the meaning of the word "wicca" I'm no linguist.
I have heard that meaning debated heavily.
I'm curious if Celts even used those sounds (that compose the word wicca)
Any linguists to chime in?
> > WHEREAS these Wiccan practices dishonor our ancestors, distort the
> > fundamental truths, and interfere with the duty we have to preserve and
> > restore our Traditional beliefs.
> Let's start with the re-instating of the High Fire Stone ritual.
> I mean if you are looking for fundamentals....
High fire stone ritual.... hmmmm. Or the debateable wicker man? Or the
three-fold death of that Lindow Man?
> > WHEREAS the two systems, Wicca and Celtic, contradict each other enough to
> > form a severe dissonance between the two.
> Prove it.
They are not the same mythology/ritual. One reading of the Cattle Raid of
Ulster vs. The Sprial Dance will show you that!
> > WHEREAS Wicca is a religion whose philosophical foundation is vastly
> > different than the Celtic religion, and the reason upon which the whole of
> > the Celtic cosomology is based differs from that of Wicca.
>
> Energetically, in pure practice, all magickal or energy manipulating
> religion based around biomagnetic earth nodes and aetheronics are the
> same
Then, in pure practice, a Wiccan's spells are the same as a Fundamentalist
Chirstian's prayers.
However, they are NOT the same in religion, in ritual, or in Mythology.
> > WHEREAS the concepts that are traditionally part of Celtic religions
> > reject the Wiccan concept and analysis of the Celtic gods and
> >goddesses.
>
> One then must ask if this is anthropology we are dealing with or
> alchemical science.
If it is truely Celtic, it should correspond with what we DO know as fact
about the Celts... through archeology, through mythology.
Hard Scholastic evidence, not just making it up as you go along.
> > WHEREAS Wicca, as it is most commonly practiced, is a modern religion.
> > There is little or no connection between Gardner's creation and the Wicce of
> > the Middle ages, and no connection to the Celts; except for what modern
> > Wiccans have stolen and incorporated.
>
> Prove it. The word wicce goes back thousands of years to its root in
> Sumeria.
Linguists can trace words & how they change & thus trace cultures &
divergences of cultures.
Just because one word has a similar root, does not mean the religion is
the same. Indeed, the Sumerian mythology & religion is not wicca either.
>The scions of the Royal and Imperial Court of The Dragon were
> the Guardian Kings and Wood Lords that settled the Celtic Lands.
OOO! I DO hope you can cough up a reference for this.
I'm starting to fear you might be getting this from a Llewellyn book.
But hey, if it is legit, it would be a most interesting tidbit.
Jaguar
poking folk to did out the
references & start a good 'ole
scholastic debate
Camin Bradbury
Talesin wrote:
>
> I posted the URL you followed you stupid fuck
>
Gentle words and Silence are the most exquisite revenge for insult.
Karisman / Camin
Altair
<dylan@~sound.net> wrote:
[snip]
> Dylan Clearbrook
> Reluctant HP
Congrats, Dylan!!!!!!!. [big hugs, wry grin]
> House of Reflecting Shadows
> Kansas City, Missouri
>
[snip]
Sean MacUisdin
> What they tend to publish are shoddly researched books, often with glaring
> errors in the mythology they are presenting.
> No matter what the (mythological) topic - the ritual & myth format turns
> out wiccan.
They are nothing more than spiritual TV Guides giving you a tantalizing
taste of a particular subject. As with any author, individual
interpretation plays a major role. Like a reader of TV Guide, if that is
the deepest literary goal they wish to achieve, theirs is a shallow
understanding.
> It is book like that that have made 'pagan' scholarship -in other words a
> serious study at ancient mythology & ritual - a joke amoungst the
> scholostic community.
Anybody doing serious scholarly research that picks up new age religion
books as a source deserves what they get. Anybody who judges an entire
body of scholarly research because of some unusual interpretations of
the subject in a few new age books is not much of a scholar.
> I don't see how taking a mythology, pounding it through the 'wicca' hole
> (square peg, round hole, big hammer) to make it look more like wicca,
> whilst slaughtering the original is of any help.
Could you provide a reference or some evidence?
> It is much along the lines of learning about Christian rituals & myths
> from books written by an othodox Jew.
>
> > Let them PUBLISH for the PUBLIC all the crap and misinformation they like.
> > The discerning student will wade through several volumes of this and figure
> > out the difference.
>
> Would that were the case.
> Sadly too many times it is not.
> (I can't count the times I have had folk tell me what a nice, peaceful,
> matriarchal culture the ancient Celts were)
I've never heard anyone say we Celts we 'nice' or 'peaceful'. Quite the
opposite really.
> How can a new person be able to judge a good source from a bad one, when
> not taught to do so? Or not familiar with the myths & other sources?
Individual responsibility. It is up to the individual to educate
themselves. Take the 'fluff books' at face value. They offer some
snippets, not always accurate, to wet your tongue. Like watching a
Hollywood historical epic. Hopefully it spurs you on to bigger and
better sources.
AineMor
religions, I guess I've been grossly misinformed. I was told the Llewellyn
(sp?) books were the best for learning. If they are badly researched and full
of errors, then I would like someone (preferably one of those who spoke thusly
of Llewellyn) to tell me what authors and books would be good for learning
about these subjects. This IS a serious inquiry. If I am to be well educated
about these topics, I need to know what books are the most accurate. Thanks.
BB,
Jennifer
Sean MacUisdin
One good source is 'Celtic Myths and Legends' by T.W. Rolleston.
AineMor
>
>Air muir 's air tir,
>
>Sean of Clan Uisdin
I'll look that one up. Thanks, Sean. :)
Mickey Birt
destruction of a culture. Those practicing that culture are. If there are people
in trads out there who are afraid their trads are dying out, then they need to
recruit and teach. Wicca has nothing to do with it.
Blessed Be to All
(especially those who can think for themselves and don't need to be led)
Happy New Year
Fithir
Jaguar wrote:
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
Talesin
<Pine.SV4.3.96.991028...@saltmine.radix.net>, Jaguar
<jag...@Radix.Net> wrote:
> >On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Panacea wrote:
> > > general? How many other historical or anthropological books
> has the
> > > *average* Llewellyn patron read?
> > Llewellyn et al are PUBLISHING HOUSES. They PUBLISH stuff.
> That means
> > putting it out where the PUBLIC, from my teenaged wannabe
> neighbor kid to
> > my Southern Baptist Mama, can trot down to the nearest bookshop
> and order
> What they tend to publish are shoddly researched books, often with
> glaring
> errors in the mythology they are presenting.
> No matter what the (mythological) topic - the ritual & myth format
> turns
> out wiccan.
> words a
> serious study at ancient mythology & ritual - a joke amoungst the
> scholostic community.
> 'wicca' hole
> (square peg, round hole, big hammer) to make it look more like
> wicca,
> whilst slaughtering the original is of any help.
> myths
> from books written by an othodox Jew.
> > Let them PUBLISH for the PUBLIC all the crap and misinformation
> they like.
> > The discerning student will wade through several volumes of this
> and figure
> > out the difference.
> Would that were the case.
> Sadly too many times it is not.
> (I can't count the times I have had folk tell me what a nice,
> peaceful,
> matriarchal culture the ancient Celts were)
> one, when
> not taught to do so? Or not familiar with the myths & other
> sources?
Go out and grab a couple of books by DJ Conway. ONe is "Celtic Magick"
and the other is "Norse Magick." They are *exactly* the same. All she
does is chnage the names of the Deities.
This is a perfectly example of the scholastic honesty found in today's
Pagan reading material.
Talesin
Shez
<t.ba...@virgin.net> writes
>I personally feel confident that there are sufficient traditional groups and
>covens following a pure thread to ensure that nothing of great value is
>lost. I know for a fact that this is true in the UK.
>Regarding those who are seeking a specific path, again I feel confident that
>they will find what they need. The greater powers have a habit of providing
>just what is needed, (and no more), at the appropriate time.
>Wicca is still in its youth and, (just as anyone or anything that passes
>through those stages prior to maturity), it is still a hotchpotch of
>conflicting ideas. True this can be a painful process, not only for Wicca
>but also for those who observe its struggle, in a similar manner to the
>experience shared by a parent and teenage child.
>IMHO the greatest danger presented by Wicca is to itself, in that it almost
>seems to be trying to follow the Christians with so many complicated rules
>and regulations plus its laughable rule of three which seems solely designed
>to make Wiccans be good.
>Surely some of the greatest attractions of traditional witchcraft are its
>lack of rules and regulations, its lack of bias against the religious
>beliefs of others and its wide variation of similar but separate paths which
>provide all with the opportunity to find their niche. This makes such a
>declaration of war laughable to say the least.
>
>
>terry
>x
>
"Their is no one true way, all ways are true to those who walk them. "
Thank you Terry you made my day.
--
Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/shez/
Shez
<bird...@netsentinel.net> writes
>
>Another bunch of radicals who do their cause no justice. This ain't much
>different from
>the Papal Bull or The Witches Hammer. Would you suggest burning, drowning or
>torn
>nipples to make these bad wicca practioners stop?
>
>Yer Pal
>BirdTribe
>
I would suggest you shut up, your understanding of any pagan path is
limited, and your berating others ?
"Your so called energy posts were laughed out of the newsgroup,
You talk about energies like a child, with little understanding of what
they are. You imagined if you mixed a little first grade science in with
fantasy that no one would notice, you were proved wrong,
The UK is very different from America in its approach to paganism,
magick and traditions,
Shez
<pbr...@nova.umuc.edu> writes
>Talesin (Witc...@psynet.net) wrote:
>
>: DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST EXPLOITERS OF CELTIC SPIRITUALITY
>
>: 11. We of the Touta Dumnonioi, and those who shall form Alliance with us,
>
>I like this. They go on about people stealing bits of culture and
>religion from their ancestors, but then they never bother to learn to
>spell the names right. "Tuta Dumnonioi" means "Folk of a Dumnonian
>(man)". They might better try "Tuta Dumnonia", "Dumnonian Folk" or "Tuta
>Dumnonion", "Tribe of the Dumnonians".
>
>: Dafydd Y Coed
I know, I looked at Rens post and thought why bother,
The Formorians or Fomoire were the first people followed by the Fir
Bold, and The Galioin Dumnainn, Then the Erainn who came from Britain,
Later invaders were the Tuatha De Danann, and the Milesians, Sons of
Mil. They came from spain.
They were also called the Scoti
That is now quoted as fact,
In fact its not fact, its a pseudo history written in the 18th and 19th
century's, it was written as fact in many history books.
Most of the fragments of Literature were written down centuries after
the original oral compositions. Many old tales and myths were included,
Poetry, legends and story were used to make this look reliable.
Many idea were taken as fact, The Irish language was it was said from
Etruscani. But the connections to the Welsh language are obvious and
undeniable,
The Celts who came to Britain, eventually invaded Ireland, most of the
tribal names are easily traced to their original roots in Britain and
Gaul. They were offshoots of well known tribes.
It seems the Romantic Ideas of the Celtic twilight, die hard,
Ireland was fortunate enough to have not been invaded by the Romans
though they traded with them,
Outposts of Rome have been found .
Their language , gods and traditions including their justice system
survived far longer than it did in Britain, it became incorporated into
Christianity more gently than in any other country,
Many of the tales, legends and myths were written down by Irish monks,
and often carefully christianised.
The Celts invaded Ireland as they did Britain they are not the original
inhabitants. Wave after wave of different peoples who invaded and spread
to be invaded again;
Much of the romanticised history was because Irish Nationalist wanted a
history of a great and powerful race from whom the Irish were descended.
Truth got stretched rather a long way.
Its understandable, Irelands history was until that time considered to
be uncouth, barbaric and pagan.
A little known piece of Irish history is that in the fifth century AD.
the Irish colonists swept through Scotland, They established the kingdom
of Dal Riata in the South East of Scotland,
When the Scots came to Ireland, all they were doing was reversing the
tide, Scotland had become Irish in the Fifth century AD. When the Scots
went to Ireland, they were simply putting things into reverse,
The Scots and the Irish are from the same roots, as indeed are the
English.
Ireland was more than once invaded by those who invaded Britain itself.
Most of the Gaelic languages can be traced back to Wales, and Breton in
France.
Let me quote from J.R.R. Tolkien.
To many, perhaps to most people outside the small company of the great
Scholars past and present, Celtic of any sort is ...a magick bag, Into
which anything may be put, and out of which almost anything may come,
Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight which is not so
much a twilight of the Gods as off the Reason.
The history of Ireland is rich and wonderful, the real history in many
ways more amazing than any tales and stories passed down from the Irish
themselves.
To read the real history to look at the many races who conquered that
Island, and to see their development is amazing.
Some of the judgement and laws which have been found the poetry and the
baldric tradition is wonderful. It Has both a sophisticated and
colourful history, and no doubt will continue to do so, But I would
prefer to see actual history than 19th century hysteria. And invention.
I simply get tired of having to Remind people like Ren that his 19th
century myths and legends are not in fact the truth
>
>Dametoceton?
>
>: Druis, Touta Dumnonioi
>
>Perhaps "Druida" or "Druides".
>
>Padraic.
+ren+
> >BirdTribe
> >
Shez squawked.
> I would suggest you shut up, your understanding of any pagan
> path is limited, and your berating others ?
BirdTribe's artwork suggests he knows a few things about witchcraft.
It's good.
> "Your so called energy posts were laughed out of the newsgroup,
> You talk about energies like a child, with little understanding > of what they are.
I wasn't laughing. I understood what he was saying about energy. Just
because he uses terms you don't understand doesn't mean his
understanding is any less developed than yours.
> You imagined if you mixed a little first grade science in with
> fantasy that no one would notice, you were proved wrong,
That's hardly first grade science, Shez. Learn the terms used by
physicists to try to describe the relationship between electrical force,
magnetism, and other misunderstood phenomena.
> The UK is very different from America in its approach to > paganism, magick and traditions
Don't turn this into a conflict of nations. The U.K. isn't so different
from America in it's approach to Wicca. U.K. bourne Ray Buckland is our
father of American Wicca.
You and Terry make it so easy for the regulars here to take my side. I
can even be a little evil to them and still they side with me. Perhaps
you need to learn how to be polite towards those you've chosen to be
your allies.
+ren+
> I simply get tired of having to Remind people like Ren that his > 19th century myths and legends are not in fact the truth
What are you contending? ..that the Milesian invaders of Ireland had
Greek origins? ..or that the Tuatha De Dannan were from Denmark?
You need to shut the fuck up or quote your sources.
Here. I'll start you off.
http://www.phoenixlive.com/phoenixguild/origins.html
I quote from the source..
"Hecateus of Miletus (c.500-476 BC) and Herodotus of Helicarnassus
(c.490-425 BC) were the first to record the existence of ‘Keltoi’. Their
‘place of origin’ was identified at the headwaters of the Danube, the
Rhine and the Rhône, and archaeology would support this contention. It
can be presumed with a fair degree of certainty that the Greeks, through
their traders and colonizers, had first encountered the Celts when
voyaging in the western Mediterranean. The great age of Greek
colonization was from the mid-eighth to mid-sixth centuries BC.
Around 600 BC colonizers from Phocaea, an Ionian Greek city, founded a
colony called Massilia (Marseilles) within the Celtic
territory of southern Gaul, east of the river Rhône. Tradition has it
that the Phoenicians had established trading colonies on the Iberian
peninsula about the same time as the Celts were flooding into that
peninsula from the north, that is at about the start of the first
millennium BC.
By this time the Celts had been developing since the start of the first
millennium BC. They had highly advanced weaponry, having
learnt the art of smelting iron. Formidable axes, billhooks and other
tools allowed the Celts to open up roadways through previously
impenetrable north European forests."
Shez, Your Latin history is weak.
Here is another link to think about.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/9659/
BirdTribe
witchcraft. She will undoubtedly, as did Talesin, find a way to back out. IRC Shez...you
name the channel and the night. Or are you gonna pull the "I'm gonna get hacked"
conspiracy routine and prove you are a groundless troll? I will stomp your puny
intellect into the drossage of dust from whence it arose. Better come well armed with
grade three science so you can beat me shortstop.
Yer Masterer
BirdTribe
--
BirdTribe
+ren+ wrote:
>
> Shez wrote:
She would prefer that you take her 16th century midwifery and identify that as the only
truth. Again, a sexist act. She knows very little about a whole lot of folk tales and
passes that off as understanding. In any scholarly debate that requires intellectual
resources and the use of fact she falls on her garden troll face like a drunken
mountebank at the end of a slow evening blithering in front of the tip collection hat..
HTH
BirdTribe
Stryder
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:47:42 -0400, Jaguar <jag...@Radix.Net> wrote:
>> The Celts, BTW, came from North Africa and Sumeria long ago.
>> Wicca in Celt means to bend. As in will.
>
>Now you will have to cough up a good referance for that dear.
>The Celts are part of the Indo-european language familiy to be sure.
>Celtic tribes were inhabiting Europe north of the Alps as early as
>the Bronze Age.
- From what I understand, the Celts, a nomadic tribe, started in the
Balklands, part of what is now called the USSR. They migrated across
Europe and then the British Isles. That has been my understanding.
Stryder
str...@rocketmail.nospam.com
Patriarch
House of Reflecting Shadows
- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The Papacy is not other than the Ghost of the deceased
Roman Empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof:
Thomas Hobbes
- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
House of Reflecting Shadows
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/9908
Beyond the Illusions
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/9908
remove 'nospam' for correct email address
Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
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BirdTribe
Stryder wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:47:42 -0400, Jaguar <jag...@Radix.Net> wrote:
>
> >> The Celts, BTW, came from North Africa and Sumeria long ago.
> >> Wicca in Celt means to bend. As in will.
> >
> >Now you will have to cough up a good referance for that dear.
> >The Celts are part of the Indo-european language familiy to be sure.
> >Celtic tribes were inhabiting Europe north of the Alps as early as
> >the Bronze Age.
>
> - From what I understand, the Celts, a nomadic tribe, started in the
> Balklands, part of what is now called the USSR. They migrated across
> Europe and then the British Isles. That has been my understanding.
From a lecture by Sir Laurence Gardner....a true scholar....
The Sidhé was a transcendent intellect, known to the Druids as the Web of the Wise,
while "druid" (druidhe) was itself a Celtic word for "witch" - an English form of the
Saxon verb wicca, meaning
"to bend" or "to yield" (as indeed do willow and wicker).
The Tuatha Dé Danann (or Dragon Lords of Anu) were masters of the transcendent Sidhé,
and were duly classified as "fates" or "fairies". Before settling in Ireland (from about
800 BC), they were
the world's most noble race, alongside the early Kings of Egypt, being the Black Sea
Princes of Scythia (now Ukraine). Like the original dynastic Pharaohs, they traced their
descent from the great
Pendragons of Mesopotamia; and from them sprang the kingly lines of the Irish Bruithnigh
and the Picts of Scotland's Caledonia. In Wales they founded the Royal House of Gwynedd,
while in
Cornwall in the southwest of England, they were the sacred gentry known as the
Pict-sidhé - from which derives the term "pixie".
So, from a single caste of the original Blood Royal - whether known as the Sangréal, the
Albi-gens or the Ring Lords - we discover many of the descriptive terms which sit at the
very heart of popular
folklore. For here, in this one noble race, we have the "elves", "fairies" and "pixies"
- not beguiling little folk, but distinguished Kings and Queens of the Dragon succession.
One of the most important Scythian words was uper, which meant "over" or "above" - a
word that we still use in today's English in such definitions as "superintendent" or
"supervisor". In titular form,
a Scythian Uper was an Overseer or, more importantly, an Overlord - the equivalent of a
Pendragon. Later, in the Hungarian and Romanian regions, the word gained the variant
form, Oupire.
Until the mediaeval fabrications of the Christian Church, there was nothing remotely
sinister or supernatural about the definition of Oupire, but this was eventually
destined to change when the
witch-hunts began, for the priestly/kingly Oupires were, in the eyes of Rome, the
equivalent of Magian Druids. They were therefore witches, and the Sidhé definition (Web
of the Wise) became newly
dubbed as "the Web of the Weird".
His academic and professional credtials. The Church he is prior of is dedicated to a
Druidic magess and is the Royal Ecclesiastical seat in England
-Sir Laurence Gardner, Kt St Gm, KCD, KT St A, is an internationally known sovereign
and chivalric genealogist. He holds the position of Prior of the Celtic Church of the
Sacred Kindred of Saint
Columba, and is distinguished as Le Chevalier Labhràn de Saint Germain and Preceptor of
the Knights Templars of Saint Anthony. Sir Laurence is also a Presidential Attaché to
the European Council
of Princes (a constitutional advisory body established in 1946), and Chancellor of the
Imperial and Royal Court of the Dragon Sovereignty. He is formally attached to the Noble
Household Guard of
the Royal House of Stuart, founded at St Germain-en-Laye in 1692, is the Jacobite
Historiographer Royal by Appointment, and is a Fellow of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland.
HTH
BirdTribe
>
> Stryder
> str...@rocketmail.nospam.com
>
> Patriarch
> House of Reflecting Shadows
>
> - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> The Papacy is not other than the Ghost of the deceased
> Roman Empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof:
>
> Thomas Hobbes
> - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> House of Reflecting Shadows
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/9908
>
> Beyond the Illusions
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/9908
>
> remove 'nospam' for correct email address
>
> Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
>
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>
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> K/ABT0yI5xTgThJFXLT9prZN
> =Wc+s
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Talesin
--
Talesin- Priest and Witch
"See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
- Mr. Garrison
ICQ: 39658232
BirdTribe <bird...@netsentinel.net> wrote in message
news:381A98A3...@netsentinel.net...
| > --
| > http://members.tripod.com/ren1999
| > http://www.panpipes.com
|
BirdTribe
Talesin wrote:
>
> I didn't back out, I just refused to use IRC/COTSE
Well, find a channel dammit. Think of the brouhaha that would occur in a BirdTribe vs
Talesin vs Shez vs BirdTribe match-up. The old bat would lose with Talesin coming in second.
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
Talesin
|
|
| Talesin wrote:
| >
| > I didn't back out, I just refused to use IRC/COTSE
|
| Well, find a channel dammit. Think of the brouhaha that would occur in a
BirdTribe vs
| Talesin vs Shez vs BirdTribe match-up. The old bat would lose with Talesin
coming in second.
|
| Yer Pal
| BirdTribe
What are the options?
Terry Bassett
and write, much less participate in intellectual and scholarly debates. Yet
mysteries were understood, the power still spun its spiral and the magick
was effective. <grin> Could it be that scholarships and intellectualism are
not essential qualities for a witch?
Could it even be that these qualities can be a hindrance in certain
situations? Now there's a mystery to ponder.
go forwards in confidence and in peace,
terry
x
BirdTribe wrote in message <381A9A05...@netsentinel.net>...
Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean
by the minute. I was given to understand that you had been around ARW
for a long time--by you. So obviously you know that fact. Therefor, your
post is a rather weak ploy.
Terry
Shez
<mick...@earthlink.net> writes
>This whole business is silly. Wiccans are not responsible for the maintenance
>or
>destruction of a culture. Those practicing that culture are. If there are
>people
>in trads out there who are afraid their trads are dying out, then they need to
>recruit and teach. Wicca has nothing to do with it.
This is quite true, those who are from older paths have the choice of
passing them on or letting them die,
Many fam trads are now doing that for the simple reason that people
today do not have dozens of children, and loads of relatives, If they
don't recruit then they will die out
Many will die, because they will not pass on what has become a way of
life in their family to strangers. They have every right to make that
decision to, they dot owe us anything,
>
>Blessed Be to All
>(especially those who can think for themselves and don't need to be led)
>
>Happy New Year
>
>Fithir
>
>Jaguar wrote:
>
>> >On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, BirdTribe wrote:
>>
>> > > WHEREAS the Celtic religious beliefs, practices, and world views that
>> > > existed in the ancient Celtic cultures developed as natural manifications
>> > > within these cultures
>>
>> > The knowledge was held by families.Scribed within alchemical texts
>> > and was scary enough to cause Papist ordered xenocide.
>>
>> The symbols in Wicca & the Celtic are not all the same, niether are the
>> myth patterns. Wicca is a modern sythesis -of fantasy, feminisim &
>> ancient folklore & myth thrown in from many diferent cultures.
>>
>> Celtic myth is the mythology of the tribes we call "Celts"
>> One culture, not a synthesis of many diverse cultures, world wide, like
>> Wicca.
>>
>> > > WHEREAS Wicca is not Celtic, nor is it derived from Celtic religion, and
>> > > Wiccan practitioners claim things to be Celtic that have never been
>> > > a part of the Celtic paradigm.
>> >
>> > The Celts, BTW, came from North Africa and Sumeria long ago.
>> > Wicca in Celt means to bend. As in will.
>>
>> Now you will have to cough up a good referance for that dear.
>> The Celts are part of the Indo-european language familiy to be sure.
>> Celtic tribes were inhabiting Europe north of the Alps as early as the
>> Bronze Age.
--
Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean
from an inside religious source skews the facts toward the goal sought.
The Greek writers, arguably the first to mention the Keltoi as a people
in the west, made little or no distinction between Keltoi and Germanic
peoples.(Livy, Diodorus, and Polybius.) Though they did describe them as
tall, fair skinned, blond warriors, with gray or blue eyes.
The Celts appear to have spread in a line along the southern part of the
main body of the European continent. They acted as a buffer between the
Germanic and the peninsular Greek and Roman peoples from 800 b.c.e.
through 500 B.C.E., when the racial mixing of the area had dissolved
most physical differences. At that point the Romans to the south and the
Germanics to the north. Had infiltrated the area once held by the celts
and usurped their control.
One point, just coming to light, is that the people described by the
Greeks spread both east and west. Archeological finds along the "Silk
Road" to China have uncovered mummies and artifacts of Celtic origin
(including tartan weaves) in the west of modern China. These mummies and
artifacts have been dated to the period when Greece was just emerging as
a civilized state. Some writings from the period, in Chinese archives,
that have always been thought of as fantasy, are now getting a serious
second look.
To say that Celts, as a whole, organized people, conquered or occupied
any land would be only the words of someone wishing for such an outcome.
They were a roaming warrior folk of independent, though sometimes
cooperating tribes.
In the era in which we must seek answers, 500 to a thousand people with
a ratio of 5 to 1 warrior could and did invade and occupy the offshore
islands to the west of the European continent. The sequencing and
roaming of these folk caused by broken and made alliances, vendettas,
and population increases that an area could not support, make very
little difference. Except that these Celts were sometimes chased, at
other times conquerers, and sometimes peaceful immigrants.
If any think the above is utterly wrong....Name me a King/leader/Chief
of all the Celts at any given point.
Point me to a cited source that proves massive invasion rather than
small groups settling near the sea and spreading outward in the isles,
or small groups with settling into a primitive forest or desert oasis.
Please leave off the fancy names that have become the pop art of some
religious, pseudo historical writings --especially on the Web. These
were a practical people with a practical relgion, and a propensity
toward independence--even when it worked to their disadvantage.
Terry
Mortality
>| >
>| > I didn't back out, I just refused to use IRC/COTSE
>|
>| Well, find a channel dammit. Think of the brouhaha that would occur in a
>BirdTribe vs
>| Talesin vs Shez vs BirdTribe match-up. The old bat would lose with Talesin
>coming in second.
>|
>| Yer Pal
>| BirdTribe
>
>What are the options?
>
>--
>Talesin- Priest and Witch
>
>
Oh, goody. Witchymania I!
++Mortality++
Most people are stupid, trying to get in line with society; like lemmings
marching to their collective death.
Talesin
Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean <slo...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:381B4143...@flash.net...
| C'mon Birdtribe, you know Shez has to pay for her land line connection
| by the minute. I was given to understand that you had been around ARW
| for a long time--by you. So obviously you know that fact. Therefor, your
| post is a rather weak ploy.
|
| Terry
Quit making excuses for your fellow gutless losers
When are you going to DO something besides yap, Terry?
--
Talesin- Priest and Witch
"See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
BirdTribe
Talesin wrote:
>
> BirdTribe <bird...@netsentinel.net> wrote in message
> news:381B3177...@netsentinel.net...
> |
> |
> | Talesin wrote:
> | >
> | > I didn't back out, I just refused to use IRC/COTSE
> |
> | Well, find a channel dammit. Think of the brouhaha that would occur in a
> BirdTribe vs
> | Talesin vs Shez vs BirdTribe match-up. The old bat would lose with Talesin
> coming in second.
> |
> | Yer Pal
> | BirdTribe
>
> What are the options?
I don't frigging know. I don't mess with games or IRC or ICQ as I am already addicted to
enough things on the computer. I have to take the rest of my vice inventorying into the
real world. I'll go anywhere you pick.
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
>
> --
> Talesin- Priest and Witch
>
> "See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
> - Mr. Garrison
>
> ICQ: 39658232
--
BirdTribe
"Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean" wrote:
>
> C'mon Birdtribe, you know Shez has to pay for her land line connection
> by the minute. I was given to understand that you had been around ARW
> for a long time--by you. So obviously you know that fact. Therefor, your
> post is a rather weak ploy.
>
Bullshit Terry. I have ignored her to stop some of the NG bickering but she won't shut
her mouth. She is the one with the cheap ploys. She hides insults inside of her 60+
daily posts. If she wants to turnn the money inmto a direct confrontation instead of
backbiting guttersnipe tactics I will kick her garden troll ass. She has no intellectual
weight whatsoever. If she can't pay then she should shut the fuck up or take a
collection from the Shezites. Surely if the old bag is powerful they will love to see
her kick my ass.
HTH
BirdTribe
Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean
as I or you can, this news group can be downloaded for offline reading
and responses by Shez. Can you say the same of an IRC.
No, it won't fly, BT. Perhaps the next time Shez is in the States
something might be arranged, but to spend a deal of money to go around
and around with one who is stubborn and another that is a rather
consistent liar, would be silly. Of course if you and Talesin would
underwrite the expenses involved for her, I'm sure she would give it a
second thought....the deposit money would have to be in advance, of
course. As we both know Talesin welches.
Terry
BirdTribe
"Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean" wrote:
>
> If you truly believe Shez posts daily, you are a bit out of touch. Also,
> as I or you can, this news group can be downloaded for offline reading
> and responses by Shez. Can you say the same of an IRC.
I could give a flying leap. If she wants to out me and "prove" I am a hoax so badly that
she spends time daily bottomfeedng and guttersniping me then a few pounds oughta be a
pleasure to part with as she can so easily prove I am a liar and a fraud and an artistic
nothing./ She is the corpse of her former self, puppeting the rote and verse response
that earned her pats on the back before she totally roboticized and became borg with ARW.
>
> No, it won't fly, BT. Perhaps the next time Shez is in the States
> something might be arranged, but to spend a deal of money to go around
> and around
Then she just needs to shut the fuck up. This is exactly what I mean about backbiting
guttersniping back fence gossips. They assume that because they say something that
everybody believes them. If what she said about me was true I would not have Ladies who
were of the Shezites as pen pals, art students, music collaborators or admirers of my
artwork. I do not wish their NG backing as I know who they are and they are not required
to compromise their friendships to say positive things about me./ Think about this Shez.
How many of your friends are mine also and what do they think of your petty sniping all
the time? They understand as well I have every right to call you an old bag and call you
to an IRC challenge.
> with one who is stubborn
I stand by the facts.
and another that is a rather
> consistent liar,
All right pal. I can handle being called a troll and a braggart and such, but I am not a
liar and never was. This particular comment is over the line and a huge step into
bottomfeeding trolldom as far as I am concerned. You have no good reason to impugn my
honor with this statement, and as such that makes YOU the LIAR.
would be silly. Of course if you and Talesin would
> underwrite the expenses involved for her, I'm sure she would give it a
> second thought....the deposit money would have to be in advance, of
> course. As we both know Talesin welches.
Let the Shezites collect it for their powerful leader. Till she can actually handle a
debate in real time about the issues she attempts to turn from fact into fiction, then
she is just another bottomfeeding troll whose only grasp for attention is on the
coattails of others. I am not impressed by her nor are your vapid wiles of any use to
me. I appreciate your willingness to be an archivist to the movement but by calling me a
liar you have proven yourself to be just another bottomfeeder./ Post something that was
not meant in wit that I lied about./ Just one asshole. Just one. Liar. Happy Samhain Pal.....
The Mighty BirdTribe
BirdTribe
that Terry called me a liar. It came from a misread where the only italicized text was
"consistent liar" and I was replying to "italicized text" parts. I take back the
conclusions as they had no basis once i returned to the original format of the post and
saw he was referring to Talesin. The rest of what I said, I stand by. BTW, if Shez
dodges a showdown of intellects and gifts then I have another way to meter her against
me so all can see for themselves that uses only the NG. She will dodge that as well.....
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
--
quality
Talesin wrote in message ...
>
>Altair <IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz> wrote in message
>news:271019991551152676%IWILLNOTBESP...@student.auckland.ac.nz...
>| In article <OytR3.246$nl3...@newsfeed.slurp.net>, "Talesin"
>| <Witc...@psynet.net> wrote:
>|
>| [blatant trolling snipped]
Talesin is *not* a troll. He's a bigot, there's a difference
>|
>| > http://www.homestead.com/dafydd/declaration2.html
| >
>| > I am not sure that I disagree with them
>| >
<snip dead space>
>| I am.
>
>So you think that Wiccans have the right to usurp a culture and twist its
>history and tradition to fit their own ideas? They have done the same thing
>to Native Americans (e.g white people doing the Ghost Dance). Is that
>acceptable to you as well?
>
>--
>Talesin- Priest and Witch
<snip sig>
It is as long as the person in question truly feels called to that
particular ceremony.
There are some very old souls out there who have lived many different lives,
in many different cultures.
There is nothing wrong with using different facets of different cultures and
magical systems to achieve the results you desire.
CL
Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean
inauspicious circumstances lately--I know you were here before, of
course. One of the things that all of you insist on is a freedom to
express your *opinions* in this forum. One of the realities I insist on
is that no
"showdown of intellects and gifts" can really be settled in this forum,
or an IRC, or a battle of web pages or web page cites.
Some come, like I do, because they can achieve two goals. They can help
and guide seekers and neophytes on the one hand and vent their verbal
spleen at some who invite it on the other. Some carry grudges for years
and some carry grudges to the nearest delete button. Some leave, then,
on their returning, expect all to accept them with open arms.
You and Shez do not get along. That has been obvious since you set a
metaphorical foot inside the cyberdoor of ARW. Now, honestly and
rhetorically, why should Shez put herself out to debate you? It would
not change your views. She already has her adherents and detractors, and
they won't change. It will prove little unless there would be a change
of personality or disappearance of one or both of you--highly unlikely.
You should know enough that nothing real happens in a short,
parametered, time. The practice is a grind of energy flow and renewal. A
discipline of constant decisions and judgments of the when, where, and
what is worth the extended effort to really accomplish something in real
life.
Is a game of words worth "a few pounds." No, it is not. Will any
decision made by Shez, or commented upon by you, be remembered in six
months..... No.
Terry
MrXorq
DUDE! Get offended! Get mad! Get REAL REAL angry. You think you have a right
to call yourself witch and priest? You have no power unless you have power
over your Shadow...but your Shadow rules you. All you have is Shadow power and
all you are is the Shadow of a witch and priest...plus you spend so much time
posting, you can't have any time left at all to become spiritualy enlightened
at all. Taleson, you yourself embody the insanity against which it should be
the Sacred Duty of any Witch and Priest to fight...that insanity that somehow
or other some one or something else is less sacred then yourself and therefor
worthy of being Judged by you.
You are what you claim you are against.
You are a Dominator.
~Me.
+ren+
#wicca for a round-to-round wrestling witch mania I!
You name the time. I'll bring the tnt!
Sean MacUisdin
LET'S GET READY TO RUMBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!!!!!!!
Air muir 's air tir,
Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
Remove 'mac' to reply.
"But the howling of dogs beside me,
And the wail of the old heroes,
And the weeping of the woman turns,
'Tis that vexes my heart."
"Hey sexy moma, wanna kill all humans?" - Bender
Aine
You are very right. All views by Shez and BT and Talesin etc...have been
expressed already. Why should Shez pay just to rehash all this bullshit.
Nothing *WOULD* change. It would be like paying someone to hit and abuse
you just for the sake of doing it. None of those boys want to change
their views, just attack. Where as in fairness I doubt Shez would change
her views, I still respect her for knowing this is what it would be
about and not participating. It would come down to whose Dick is bigger
anyway and IRC wouldnt be able to comply with what is needed to prove
that. Shez would automatically be called out for not having one. ;) This
would only be a *Cock* fight and prove nothing. The only difference in
this forum is you have to have patience to wait for someones answer. I
can only imagine the bullshit spew that would go on since all responses
would be without thought.
Aine
Noscere, Audere, Velle and Tacere
To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent
..Four Powers of the Magus....
....To Evolve
Sleep for a little, a very small while--And fear nothing.-- from the
Tain Bo Cuailagne
arw photo page--by Weyland Greywolf
http://members.xoom.com/celtic_farm/photo.html
Shez
<str...@rocketmail.nospam.com> writes
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:47:42 -0400, Jaguar <jag...@Radix.Net> wrote:
>
>>> Wicca in Celt means to bend. As in will.
>>
>>Now you will have to cough up a good referance for that dear.
>>The Celts are part of the Indo-european language familiy to be sure.
>>Celtic tribes were inhabiting Europe north of the Alps as early as
>>the Bronze Age.
>
>Balklands, part of what is now called the USSR. They migrated across
>Europe and then the British Isles. That has been my understanding.
>
>
In fact their is good evidence that they came from the south of Asian
India, where tall blond or red haired people are still not uncommon.
Their language has many words in common or similar to the Celtic
languages, they certainly started to move across Europe, many finds have
been unearthed in France, Germany, Romania and many of the Baltic
states.
>Stryder
>str...@rocketmail.nospam.com
>
>Patriarch
>House of Reflecting Shadows
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>The Papacy is not other than the Ghost of the deceased
>Roman Empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof:
>
> Thomas Hobbes
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>House of Reflecting Shadows
>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/9908
>
>Beyond the Illusions
>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/9908
>
>remove 'nospam' for correct email address
>
>Internet newsgroup posting. Copyright 1999. All rights reserved.
>
>
--
BirdTribe
is an anathema to the group. So.. I wish it to stop. Not because she bothers me but
because her feeling threatened by my intellect is an invalid place to come from. Maybe
she is threatened by the friends I have made who include Shezites amongst them.
Therefore if she wants to take me on and make cuts at my facility then she needs to do
it in a forum where her ass can be trounced. I do not read her posts. I only have come
across her numerous insults by reading others repliew. Therefore I have to assume that I
have probably missed just as many insults directed at me as I have read. Bottom
line....she needs to prove me wrong and not just spout like a sick whale. Shez is a
bottomfeeding guttersnipe who is threatened by my presence. WHY?
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
Shez
<bird...@netsentinel.net> writes
>And I hereby challenge the old bat to a duel on the knowledge of energetics and
>witchcraft. She will undoubtedly, as did Talesin, find a way to back out. IRC
>Shez...you
>name the channel and the night. Or are you gonna pull the "I'm gonna get
>hacked"
>conspiracy routine and prove you are a groundless troll? I will stomp your puny
>intellect into the drossage of dust from whence it arose. Better come well
>armed
>with
>grade three science so you can beat me shortstop.
As I said to Talesin, and no doubt your read it at the time, I pay for
every minute of my time on the Internet, we don't have free local calls
here.
I will not pay to talk to someone I despise and do not respect.
Now if you are willing to pay for that phone call through a third party,
Loki for instance, then fine.
Pay in advance please, I don't trust your judgement or your honesty.
I made the same offer to Talesin and he refused,
We will include within that discussion, Magic, and Celtic history. Both
of which you seem to have some trouble grasping, perhaps you might even
learn something.
--
Shez
<bird...@netsentinel.net> writes
>
>
>Talesin wrote:
>>
>> I didn't back out, I just refused to use IRC/COTSE
>
>Well, find a channel dammit. Think of the brouhaha that would occur in a
>BirdTribe vs
>Talesin vs Shez vs BirdTribe match-up. The old bat would lose with Talesin
>coming in second.
>
>Yer Pal
>BirdTribe
Try not to be so childish, I did offer to talk to Talesin, he refused to
pay for my time,
If you feel unable to face me by yourself, then so be it, drop out, I
don't have time for those who need a gang to back them up.
>
>>
>> --
>> Talesin- Priest and Witch
>>
>> "See what happens when you raise your child to be a Pagan?"
>> - Mr. Garrison
>>
>> ICQ: 39658232
>> BirdTribe <bird...@netsentinel.net> wrote in message
>> news:381A98A3...@netsentinel.net...
>> | And I hereby challenge the old bat to a duel on the knowledge of
>> energetics and
>> | witchcraft. She will undoubtedly, as did Talesin, find a way to back out.
>> IRC Shez...you
>> | name the channel and the night. Or are you gonna pull the "I'm gonna get
>> hacked"
>> | conspiracy routine and prove you are a groundless troll? I will stomp your
>> puny
>> | intellect into the drossage of dust from whence it arose. Better come well
>> armed with
>> | grade three science so you can beat me shortstop.
>> |
>> | *If the whole world is a stage I want better sound and lighting*
>> | http://www.netsentinel.net/BirdTribeMovie.html
>> | http://www.netsentinel.net - get yer Shockwave plugins loaded!
>
--
Shez
<bird...@netsentinel.net> writes
>
>
>+ren+ wrote:
>>
>> Shez wrote:
>
>She would prefer that you take her 16th century midwifery and identify that as
>the only
>truth. Again, a sexist act. She knows very little about a whole lot of folk
>tales and
>passes that off as understanding. In any scholarly debate that requires
>intellectual
>resources and the use of fact she falls on her garden troll face like a drunken
>mountebank at the end of a slow evening blithering in front of the tip
>collection hat..
>
>HTH
>BirdTribe
Poor Birdtribe, I am a historian, because I tore Rens blathering to
shreds with a little bit of truth, you had to come and stand up for him.
Well it seems you and he are of the same type, Romantic and foolish. Try
sometime to look at real history instead of myth and legend, often the
real history explains where the myths and legends came from, and Why, It
expresses the ideas behind the legends, the spirituality of a place and
a people,
Evidence shows that the Ulster cycle, has pre Christian roots dating
back over a hundred years before Christianity arrived in Ireland, and
that is a long, long time after the La Tene Iron age of the Celts.
In fact the society described, has a great deal in common with
continental Celtic society around 100 years B.C.
The Brehons, learned men upheld the laws and justice in Ireland, with
the Filidh or poets as their communications , to spread the laws and
uphold them through Ireland,
Most of these laws were transmitted orally, and only written down in the
fifteenth and sixteenth century's,
They are extremely close to Hindu law. Showing the common Indo European
roots of the Celts.
It was not a heroic society in the way that people romanticise it today,
it was an agricultural society, based on cattle and land and their was
no warrior status.
In fact the sons of the leading and powerful family's were the warriors,
Kinship obligation was paramount.
Their is little archaeological evidence for the mass invasion theory's
common to most 19th century historians, its far more likely that they
submerged the existing populations,
Modern historians believe they arrived in successive waves, spreading
out over many years.
Ties with other Celtic tribes are obvious from records, both the
European and British tribes, often one tribe would have holdings in
Europe Britain and Ireland,
A little practical research could provide you with a background quite
different to the Romantics of the 19th century.
Or those who cling to those Romantic ideas even today.
I have no interest in arguing with Ren he simply makes up what he wants
to believe, or relies on myths and 19th century Romanticism, I don't
think that you are much different Its really not amusing to talk to
people who don't know what they are talking about,
Fortunately I have had the chance in these newsgroups to talk to other
Scholars of Celtic history, and in great detail.
Talking to you and Ren is like talking to backward children. In
comparison
>
>>
>> > I simply get tired of having to Remind people like Ren that his > 19th
>century myths and legends are not in fact the truth
>>
>> What are you contending? ..that the Milesian invaders of Ireland had
>> Greek origins? ..or that the Tuatha De Dannan were from Denmark?
>>
>> You need to shut the fuck up or quote your sources.
>>
>> Here. I'll start you off.
>>
>> http://www.phoenixlive.com/phoenixguild/origins.html
>>
>> I quote from the source..
>>
>> "Hecateus of Miletus (c.500-476 BC) and Herodotus of Helicarnassus
>> (c.490-425 BC) were the first to record the existence of ‘Keltoi’. Their
>> ‘place of origin’ was identified at the headwaters of the Danube, the
>> Rhine and the Rhône, and archaeology would support this contention. It
>> can be presumed with a fair degree of certainty that the Greeks, through
>> their traders and colonizers, had first encountered the Celts when
>> voyaging in the western Mediterranean. The great age of Greek
>> colonization was from the mid-eighth to mid-sixth centuries BC.
>>
>> Around 600 BC colonizers from Phocaea, an Ionian Greek city, founded a
>> colony called Massilia (Marseilles) within the Celtic
>> territory of southern Gaul, east of the river Rhône. Tradition has it
>> that the Phoenicians had established trading colonies on the Iberian
>> peninsula about the same time as the Celts were flooding into that
>> peninsula from the north, that is at about the start of the first
>> millennium BC.
>>
>> By this time the Celts had been developing since the start of the first
>> millennium BC. They had highly advanced weaponry, having
>> learnt the art of smelting iron. Formidable axes, billhooks and other
>> tools allowed the Celts to open up roadways through previously
>> impenetrable north European forests."
>>
>> Shez, Your Latin history is weak.
>> Here is another link to think about.
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/9659/
>>
>> --
>> http://members.tripod.com/ren1999
>> http://www.panpipes.com
>
--
Shez
<t.ba...@virgin.net> writes
>It's only in comparatively recent times that the greater majority could read
>and write, much less participate in intellectual and scholarly debates. Yet
>mysteries were understood, the power still spun its spiral and the magick
>was effective. <grin> Could it be that scholarships and intellectualism are
>not essential qualities for a witch?
>Could it even be that these qualities can be a hindrance in certain
>situations? Now there's a mystery to ponder.
>
>go forwards in confidence and in peace,
This particular witch Terry is a university trained historian,
Intelligence was part of being a witch, a great deal of their work meant
they had like alchemists to learn the benefits and uses of certain
plants and fungi,
They acted often as the local councillor, they were the midwife and
layer out of the dead, They healed and they helped those who had no hope
and who were in constant pain out of this world,
They helped with abortions, with love potions, and with various potions
to help men stay sexually active.
They needed to be in many ways an amateur Psychologist.
I don't think people give half enough credit to those women.
Unfortunately people when they have told someone their darkest secrets
their fears, and their sexual problems can become aggressive. They fear
what the witch knows about them, and some witches became the scape goat
and were driven from a village or killed.
The villages were the ones who suffered, because no witch would want to
live their. They had no midwife, no herbalist no access to magick, no
healing no midwifery and no layer out of the dead.
>
>terry
>x
>
>BirdTribe wrote in message <381A9A05...@netsentinel.net>...
>>
>>
>>+ren+ wrote:
>>>
>>> Shez wrote:
>>
>>She would prefer that you take her 16th century midwifery and identify that
>as the only
>>truth. Again, a sexist act. She knows very little about a whole lot of folk
>tales and
>>passes that off as understanding. In any scholarly debate that requires
>intellectual
>>resources and the use of fact she falls on her garden troll face like a
>drunken
>>mountebank at the end of a slow evening blithering in front of the tip
>collection hat..
>>
>>HTH
>>BirdTribe
>>
>
>
>
--
BirdTribe
+ren+ wrote:
>
> I purpose we (the regulars) all gather in a virtual circle on Efnet's
> #wicca for a round-to-round wrestling witch mania I!
>
> You name the time. I'll bring the tnt!
I'll be there whenever. My opponents appear to have already left the building.
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
props that way. I can flame the shit out of the old bag here any day, but I want the
opportunity to prove she is a bag of wind in a scientific debate of theories, facts and
cites. I know the information that I have is powerful. I have changed many lives with
it. I am a respected member and perhaps even an elder in the local Pagan community and
she is threatened by my intellect. Why?./
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
Aine wrote:
>
> Terry
> You are very right. All views by Shez and BT and Talesin etc...have been
> expressed already. Why should Shez pay just to rehash all this bullshit.
> Nothing *WOULD* change. It would be like paying someone to hit and abuse
> you just for the sake of doing it.
Aine. I don't fucking read her and I am subjected to her crap about me just like you are
by Talesin. There is NO difference. She lies about me always.
None of those boys want to change
> their views, just attack.
If you consider the airing of facts in the face of an ignorant an attack then that is
what you call it. I call it education.
Where as in fairness I doubt Shez would change
> her views,
Corpses cannot change anything.
I still respect her for knowing this is what it would be
> about and not participating.
She hasn't even replied and all of you seem to know she will get her sorry folk tale
spinning, gossip mongering ass in a severe intellectual bind if she debates me in real time.
It would come down to whose Dick is bigger
You still know little about me. This is about minds and altars. I am protecting my altar
as is my charge of the burden.
> anyway and IRC wouldnt be able to comply with what is needed to prove
> that. Shez would automatically be called out for not having one. ;) This
> would only be a *Cock* fight and prove nothing.
You may include Talesin in that but I will reiterate that this is about minds,
intellects and altars AFAIC.
The only difference in
> this forum is you have to have patience to wait for someones answer. I
> can only imagine the bullshit spew that would go on since all responses
> would be without thought.
Not me pal. I stand by my thoughts, have them organized and am prepared to defend them
with facts, cites and fancy footwork. Everyone else seems prepared to weasel out.
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
>
> Aine
>
> Noscere, Audere, Velle and Tacere
> To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent
> ..Four Powers of the Magus....
>
> ....To Evolve
>
> Sleep for a little, a very small while--And fear nothing.-- from the
> Tain Bo Cuailagne
>
> arw photo page--by Weyland Greywolf
> http://members.xoom.com/celtic_farm/photo.html
--
Aine
all words in IRC would be said without time for thought, implying in the
ngs there is time to think before you speak. Okay, there is, but I did
not mean to imply that answers here are always more intelligent. Theres
proof in the pudding here that Time to think---and----intelligence do
not always go hand and hand! <g> Sorry about that...If I had only taken
time to think before I posted that! <BAG> See? Doesnt hurt at all to say
you are wrong about something! ;)
Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean
BirdTribe wrote:
>
> All below has grains of truth. The fact of the matter is her bitter attitude towards me
> is an anathema to the group. So.. I wish it to stop. Not because she bothers me but
> because her feeling threatened by my intellect is an invalid place to come from.
C'mon BT, I not only correspond with Shez on here, but having regularly
corresponded with her by e-mail, off-and -on for a couple years. I put
her easily at or above my level, and I don't find you intellect
threatening only abrasively different at times. Could it be that you
fins both she and I the same?
> Maybe
> she is threatened by the friends I have made who include Shezites amongst them.
No, Shez shows common sense on a more consistent basis than either you
or I. Your choice of friends or the fact that they are friends would be
a non-sequitor with either of us.
> Therefore if she wants to take me on and make cuts at my facility then she needs to do
> it in a forum where her ass can be trounced. I do not read her posts.
Well, if you ignore her posts, why would you want to go to an IRC. You
just stated that what she says is irrelevant to you by your own actions
and statement--why should she bother to spend money on posting to an IRC
when you have already made the de facto statement that anything she says
will be irrelevant to you? Just howling at her to trounce her will mean
nothing to anyone, as your posts are probably irrelevant to her. If you
playing for the audience....well then you only prove your ego is larger
than Shez's.
> I only have come
> across her numerous insults by reading others repliew. Therefore I have to assume that I
> have probably missed just as many insults directed at me as I have read. Bottom
> line....she needs to prove me wrong and not just spout like a sick whale. Shez is a
> bottomfeeding guttersnipe who is threatened by my presence.
Oh good grief! Now that's the last kind of paragraph I'd expect from
you. (Now watch closely because I'm about to do something I don't do
often) I see posts where people insult and denigrate me..... I ignore at
least fifty percent of them, and never think of debating the folks that
make them in real time, because I don't give a f--k what they
say....unless I can use it against them.
I also know IRC. I helped found a couple chats. I know all the tricks
and games that can be used to make someone appear ignorant.....It all
depends on who gets the initiative and who has the will or ability to
ignore the other while pressing an agenda and claiming a win......
Intellect and knowledge can take a back seat to both.
> WHY?
Because you are, that's why. But, I haven't quite figured out what the
"are" is yet.
Terry
Tegan
Birdtribe! :) Here's a link you might enjoy. You'll like # 32 # 66 # 143
especially. ;) http://www.netgsi.com/~fcowboy/twinki.html
Many Blessings,
Tegan :)
--
There are always helpers and signs to point the way for anyone who is
willing to follow them.
"If you believed the FBI about Leonard Peltier, did you also
believe the FBI six years ago about Waco?
If so, is it time to re-evaluate your belief in the FBI
about Leonard, too?" - P.P.
NOVEMBER ~ FREE PELTIER!!!
BirdTribe <bird...@netsentinel.net> wrote in article
<3818950B...@netsentinel.net>...
>
>
> Tegan wrote:
> >
> > My favorite are the plastic shamans that sell "Genuine Indian Vision
> > Quests", for $500.00 a pop. Glossy brochures and everything. Yep,
real
> > spiruhchul alright.
> >
> > Many Blessings,
>
> I teamed up with Two Horses last year after I had Ghost Wolf (Italian
wannabe/plastic
> shaman/ghost dance faker) pissed at me for flaming his sorry fraudulent
ass on AFAB. He
> kept writing to my email insulting me so I dug around and found
outstanding warrants for
> fraud for Robert Franzone, and with the help of Two Horses and local
Indians who busted
> up his Ghost Dance, and sent him running, the authorities were alerted as
to his true
> identity and he was tracked to a New Orleans hotel room and arrested with
a 500 dollar a
> day heroin habit. Great shaman my ass. Fat Italian wannabe...definitely.
>
> Yer Pal
> BirdTribe
BirdTribe
"Terry, Sylvia, and Bettijean" wrote:
>
> BirdTribe wrote:
> >
> > All below has grains of truth. The fact of the matter is her bitter attitude towards me
> > is an anathema to the group. So.. I wish it to stop. Not because she bothers me but
> > because her feeling threatened by my intellect is an invalid place to come from.
>
> C'mon BT, I not only correspond with Shez on here, but having regularly
> corresponded with her by e-mail, off-and -on for a couple years.<snip>
"nuff said. You are biased,. She is an old bat and frequently gets called for not
addressing the issues and making straw men out of an argument. She has never been able
to back a single accusation against GP with a simple cut and paste and her tactics of
not understanding what the fuck is being said because it is beyond the level of what she
has learned, and turns it into others speaking nonsense. She is a geriatric idiot and
fool. She has attacked me and my religion and my altar, called me a liar, a fraud, and a
non pagan. She is an old bag bottomfeeder troll who pretends to be an elder. She is just
basically full of unmitigated dogshit.
HTH
BirdTribe
BirdTribe
Tegan wrote:
>
> LOL!!! So you had a hand in the taking out of Franzone?
Yes ma'am. Two Horses, me and F Chris Bro from alt.fan.art-bell. Dug out his criminal
record, real name and whereabouts and whammo, he was nabbed in a New Orleans Hotel room
with a 500 dollar a day heroin habit. I had him severely pissed at me where he and
several of his sock puppets kept emailing me for two months trying to get me to stop
flaming his sorry, fraudulent, spiritual thieving ass.
Good work,
> Birdtribe! :) Here's a link you might enjoy. You'll like # 32 # 66 # 143
> especially. ;) http://www.netgsi.com/~fcowboy/twinki.html
That list made it around the AFAB NG during the flaming of his ass. I was glad to do my
duty for your people.
Yer Pal
BirdTribe
> > *If the whole world is a stage I want better sound and lighting*
> > http://www.netsentinel.net/BirdTribeMovie.html
> > http://www.netsentinel.net - get yer Shockwave plugins loaded!
--
Aine
but I dont feel it will prove a thing. If you mean the quickness of it
so that no one can look up shit in a book, maybe! Maybe you will just
have to put up with the bullshit like the rest of us though. You cant go
run to IRC every time. You still would have to have someone as
knowledgeable as you in order to verify you are stating facts and not
just big words. It is a waste of time for Shez who pays for time. Man I
would *Never* waste my money doing something as silly as trying to prove
myself for someone I didnt like. If it was free maybe, but not for
money. Id rather eat a steak dinner out! Come on lets go have a steak
dinner and you can tell me how great you are and I will actually listen
if there is Lobster too. You are a successful artist. You can afford
Lobster... Bring a dictionary, I need to look up most words you use with
me <];) <---------Yinnie the Witchie!
Tegan
>
>
> Tegan wrote:
> >
> > LOL!!! So you had a hand in the taking out of Franzone?
>
> Yes ma'am. Two Horses, me and F Chris Bro from alt.fan.art-bell. Dug out
his criminal
> record, real name and whereabouts and whammo, he was nabbed in a New
Orleans Hotel room
> with a 500 dollar a day heroin habit. I had him severely pissed at me
where he and
> several of his sock puppets kept emailing me for two months trying to get
me to stop
> flaming his sorry, fraudulent, spiritual thieving ass.
Damn, that's sad about the heroin thing too. I've read a few things about
him, evading arrest in other states, etc. Yeah, people got to be careful
who they turn to for spiritual help. Best to turn inwards rather than
those
kinds of alternatives.
> Good work,
> > Birdtribe! :) Here's a link you might enjoy. You'll like # 32 # 66 #
143
> > especially. ;) http://www.netgsi.com/~fcowboy/twinki.html
>
> That list made it around the AFAB NG during the flaming of his ass. I was
glad to do my
> duty for your people.
That must have been the same time it went around alt.native too. The
author is from alt.native, btw. What you
did was a duty for ALL people, Birdtribe. ;) Thank you.
> Yer Pal
> BirdTribe
Many Blessings,
Tegan :)
--
There are always helpers and signs to point the way for anyone who is
willing to follow them.
"If you believed the FBI about Leonard Peltier, did you also
believe the FBI six years ago about Waco?
If so, is it time to re-evaluate your belief in the FBI
about Leonard, too?" - P.P.
NOVEMBER ~ FREE PELTIER!!!
> --
H¥ßï§çܧ
>
> +ren+ wrote:
> >
> > I purpose we (the regulars) all gather in a virtual circle on Efnet's
> > #wicca for a round-to-round wrestling witch mania I!
> >
> > You name the time. I'll bring the tnt!
<Talesin> you may leave now
<moonphase> hehe
<moonpha1ze> HAHAHAHAHAHA
<Talesin> you are a drunk moonphase
<Talesin> go shower before i make you
give me a blow job
<moonphase> no i am not
<moonpha1ze> My doctor syas I'm not
stable enough to handle the instability
of Talesin.
<Merlin1> damn, I am sober and can't do
it.
* Talesin then bow to me moopha1ze and
prepare to havr my dick enter your crack
*** Terry was kicked by Talesin
(bastard )
* ren kicks Talesin's ass with his
superior magic
<Talesin> bwhahahahahahaha
<ren> i like the abuse :)
<moonpha1ze> But since my unstable art
friends can't paint me without me going
to pieces, I think I'll have to stay
away from Talesin and all his
instabilities
<ren> Talesin, laugh at your own fate
>:)
*** moonpha1ze is now known as BirdTribe
<ren> Cummere, Moonie, I'll teach you
the ways of apples and chaos and stuff
<ren> >:)
<BirdTribe> You are all a bunch of
l;adkfjselkjflksajldjflkaj who can't
take a dflkjselkflkawja because of your
lack of lakdfjlkajfkd dxlkfjdslfj
dalfkjsd
<ren> Birdtribe, what came first...
<Talesin> TROLLS - look in the mirror
<ren> the pterodactyl, or the egg?
<ren> It is in Eris hands...
<aine> i am soooo cute look at meee
<ren> Talesin, life is your
mirror...mirror is your life...
* Talesin shut your legs you vile slut
* ren ponders his bellybutton lint...
<BirdTribe> the pterodactyl, otherwise
known as the seminiferous plasnasticator
of the Jurassic period, is the avidolous
representation of the present day
pentagram
* Talesin come to me aine - so i can
abuse you more on the ng
<aine> hmmm ah i love it!
<ren> Birdtribe, you snuffleupagus, shut
the fuck up
<ren> >:)
<aine> spank me now!
<Talesin> bwhaha
* Talesin spanks aine and slurps all
over her - with his wet placid dick
* aine shows all her broom
<aine> broom even
* aine flys into the night air
* aine cackles evilly
<Talesin> remember your last mistress
ren
<ren> I know you all love me, but you
can't have me
* aine snuggles with tales
<BirdTribe> If you all would lower your
rectitudinal emaciatories, you'd see
that my murderous tendencipules with the
English Language prognosibake the very
ground upon which you all gentudiline
<ren> No, I don't Talespin
<Talesin> tales - bats aine around with
her broom
<ren> She was imaginary...
<aine> tailspin eheh
<Talesin> hehe
<ren> Birdtribe, Terry will destroy you
with his magic mirror
<Talesin> shikomi-zue - you are a
shikomi-zue
<Talesin> oh - sorry thats ren
<ren> Behold! It says Disney on the
back...
<ren> And has a picture of the Beast on
the front. Birdtribe, the beast is
you...you are the beast...I sleep now...
<Talesin> i am terries buttercup - where
is terry?
* ren falls over on the table
*** ren is now known as Terry
*** aine is now known as tonyveca
<Talesin> ren? you ok? we are takling
terry together
<BirdTribe> But none of you can utilize
your gentomes enough to put Talesin in
his respective habitative pigeonhole, so
therefore ren praglanimates his
fervescitude all over you
<Terry> You are your own worst enema,
Taleswine
<Terry> I mean, enemy
<Talesin> you all haxored my computer
<tonyveca> worship me
*** BirdTribe is now known as Rhyannon
<Rhyannon> fuck all of you
<Rhyannon> fuck you too
<Terry> Now, now, Rhyanon, don't let
them get to you
<Rhyannon> quit being a cunt and fuck
yourself right fucking off
<Terry> You know you are above all of
this
<Terry> We love you
<Rhyannon> fuck you, you two-bit fucking
poser
* Terry gives Rhyanon a lewd smile
<Terry> hehe
<malphas> she is so powerful, you all
will be sorry
<malphas> afterall, she did forsee that
great plane crash
<Ravin_Birdbrain> I mean...you Wiccans
all suck!
* Ravin_Birdbrain flaps her wings
* great_carmello socks it to ren
<Talesin> faaaaaarrrt
<sockpuppet> omygod...i just got a msg
from the server telling me to chill
out!!!
* Ravin_Birdbrain flaps her wings harder
* great_carmello breathes it all up
<sockpuppet> *** Chill out! There's no
need to change nicks that often. (wait 4
seconds)
* Ravin_Birdbrain tries REALLY hard to
take off
* great_carmello tries to pull ravins
feathers out of her wings - for
christmas feast
* Ravin_Birdbrain falls off side of
building...screaming and flapping
<great_carmello> hehe
* Ravin_Birdbrain splatters all over the
hood of a '57 Chevy parked far below on
the street
<ren> Did you steal my magic water from
my vague website???
* blackbane looks at ren and cries
* blackbane brushes her hair
<blackbane> yes i love your beautiful
blond hair
<blackbane> mine is so thing and ratty
<Great_Carmello> YOurs can be blonde
too :)
<blackbane> thin even
<blackbane> hehe oh yeah!
<blackbane> but then i would look
skankier
<Great_Carmello> I have to ask
though...what is up with your nose?
<great_carmello> hehe
<blackbane> ummm that is personal
<Great_Carmello> There are great plastic
surgeons around these days ya know
H¥ßï§çܧ
>
> I purpose we (the regulars) all gather in a virtual circle on Efnet's
> #wicca for a round-to-round wrestling witch mania I!
>
> You name the time. I'll bring the tnt!
hmm - i wonder what it would sound
like??? <evil grin> hybiscus dreams
on...of ren, tales, nancy, steve(574),
moonie, shez, rhy, aine, blessed
carmello, malphas, rbb hmmm.. all
fighting it out.
<tales> rhy you trailor trash you
* hybiscus looks in the mirror
<tales> hehe -
<Rhyanon> Bwahaha
* tales slaps hybiscus around a bit with
a large trout
<Rhyanon> Your dick is so small!
<Rhyanon> S'cooze me, gotta get another
beer
<tales> your whole is way to large
<tales> here have my bid dildo
<Aine> tales, that you smouth
<Rhyanon> Only for you, 'cause you have
a small dick
<Rhyanon> hehe
<tales> i mean vibrator
<tales> hehe
* hybiscus primps himself
<tales> hey man - it has only been up my
butt once a day for 3 years
<Rhyanon> Himself?
<tales> not too dirty
<tales> hehe
<Rhyanon> Eeeuuuww...hehe
<Nancy> Promise, I'll tell the whole
truth...honest (crosses fingers)
<ren> you have a fat ass nancy
<Nancy> You like my ass, ren
<ren> ya, but is fat
<Nancy> It's almost as big as your
head...
<Nancy> hehe
<ren> bend over so i can probe it for
you
<_574> hehe
<ren> ren - i am not part of your coven
steve hehe
<BitchGoddes> I wan tto be a part of
Steve's coven! it's cool
<BlackBane> i would like getting slapped
to much
<Nancy> Steve's a liar...I have proof
<Nancy> Should see the e-mail I tampered
with...er, I mean he sent me
<ren> hey i want to be nancy now
<Nancy> Okay
*** Nancy is now known as Loki
<Loki> Eh, this one's no fun ...
*** Loki is now known as ronin
<ren> heheh - oh nancy i believe you
really i do
<ronin> hehe
<ronin> Get thee behind me, windoze
<ronin> Dude, take a bath
* ren jac_muphasa_clon
<ronin> ronin passes ren toothpaste...
<ren> i can not even tell who i am any
more
<ronin> ...mouthwash...mints
<ren> hehe
<ren> i thhought i was clone
*** ronin is now known as Malphass
<Terry> No, that's malphas
*** ren is now known as kirk_jac_clone
<Malphass> No, it's malpass
<Malphass> hehe
<Malphass> You all suck
*** kirk_jac_clone is now known as
sock_puppet_
<Malphass> Blackbane kicks your scrawny
Wicca butts
<Malphas-clone> where's my yellow
schoolbus
<shez> your a creep you always have
been,
<ren> I'm not a creep. I'm your English
instructor.
<Malphas-clone> I love your carmell corn
<blessed_carmello> ueueueuu - i have a
bus
<Malphas-clone> well it is better than
finger
<blessed_carmello> hehe i love you
malpahs - kisses
<Malphass> *smooch*
<Malphass> Oh, wrong Malphass
<Malphas-clone> I am the Clone! NOt you!
see I spelled it right
<Shez> I'm old, but my grammar is
impeekible
<blessed_carmello> sockpupett bow to my
will
<Shez> Who is Will?
* blessed_carmello gives malphas clone
anal
<blessed_carmello> hehe
<Shez> hehe
<Malphas-clone> blessed_carmello, bite
my ass
<blessed_carmello> hehe whois me
<Shez> Bwahaha
<Shez> I want to flame someone...
<Shez> hehe
* blessed_carmello gives anal to rbb's
socks
<blessed_carmello> bwhahaha
<Malphas-clone> turn around and fart
<nancy> flame me
<nancy> i like abuse
* rbb isn't wearing any socks
<Shez> Okay...that's how I type
<moonphaze> NO! ME! I want to be
abuseded
<nancy> no me first!
<moonphaze> all you mean people
<Shez> Moonie! Long lost friend of mine
<moonphaze> are really menatlly unstable
and should have your cable taken away
* blessed_carmello hands moonphase a
bottle of rye to drink first
<Shez> Be part of the Shezites
<moonphaze> thanks
<blessed_carmello> i am a mighty shezite
* moonphaze drinks it in one shot and
hands the glass back for a refill
* blessed_carmello hands moonphase more
bottles of mixed booze
<moonphaze> ah, shez, that mean daya-li
came all the way up to salem to harass
me by sendign the nice detectivs over to
tell m e to stop
* moonphaze grabs the bottle of rye from
blessed_carmello and begins to drink
heavily
<Terry> It's okay, Moonie. We know
you're mentally unbalanced, but you're
fun at parties
<Terry> hehe
<moonphaze> especially when I undress
and dance before yu naked
<Terry> hehehe
<moonphaze> oohhh terry, I always wanted
you
<moonphaze> big strong wiccan priest and
al
<Terry> I know, but I belong to Shez
<Terry> :P
<Terry> My magic is truly terrible to
behold! Avery your eyes!!!
<Terry> hehe
<Terry> Avert...
* moonphaze begins to cry and wail in
the hideous fashion
<Terry> Here's a virtual hanky
<Terry> hehe
* moonphaze blows nose
<moonphaze> thanks
<Terry> Um...you got something hanging
from your nose...
<Terry> hehe
<moonphaze> oh, ok
<blessed_carmello> bwhaha
* moonphaze leaves it there
<Terry> Who's leaving?
*** blessed_carmello is now known as ren
<Terry> Ren, my arch nemesis!
<ren> terry look in the mirror the evil
spock was cooler
<Terry> My magic is SO much better than
yours!!!
*** ren is now known as talesin
<talesin> no i am cooler
* moonphaze begins too take bets
<talesin> hehe
<Terry> Bwahaha
*** talesin is now known as ren
<Terry> Talesin, look in the crackly
mirror...
<ren> no - i am the one who made you a
mirror
<ren> heh
<Terry> Pretty, huh?
<Terry> Ren, you bastard!
<ren> terry - you will be destroyed
<ren> hehe
<Terry> No, you will!
<Terry> So there! :P
<Terry> hehe
<moonphaze> I like looking at myself in
the mirror, touching myself...
<Terry> Bwahaha
<Terry> Not in the lobby of hotels,
please...
<Terry> hehe
* moonphaze begins to dance as sensually
as 200 pound naked blond female can
<ren> hehe
<Terry> Doh!
<Terry> hehe
* ren touches moonphase
<moonphaze> ohhhh
<ren> whoop
<moonphaze> touch me - here
<Terry> Where???
* ren touches moonphase there
<Terry> hehe
* moonphaze points to her little toe
<ren> i only sexually respond when
provoked
<Terry> Nothing on you is little...
<ren> hehe
<Terry> hehe
<ren> hehe
<ren> your little toe?
<moonphaze> amd I... provoke you?
<ren> ya
<moonphaze> yes, my little toe. It is
the repository of ALL my sensuality
* Nancy provokes ren
<moonphaze> that's why I never go
barefoot
<ren> you did moonphase now you will be
my sockpupet #5
<Terry> Also where she keeps her brain
<Terry> hehe
* ren sexes Nancy up and then says his
girlfriend will snap your neck now hehe
<Terry> Bwahaha
*** ren is now known as Nancy
<Nancy> you are a slut Hybiscus
<Nancy> hehe
<Nancy> ooooohh - cool
*** Terry is now known as Talesin
*** moonphaze has quit IRC (goin' to
shower off you terrible peopels touch)
<Talesin> hehe
*** moonphaze has joined
<Talesin> brb
<moonphaze> I am back
<moonphaze> that mean and mentally
unstable talesin played with me
* moonie dies again
<moonphaze> blood?
<Tales> bwhaha moony you are a liar it
was ren
* moonphaze begins to slaivate
<moonphaze> no, it was tales AND ren AND
that nice dective in salem
<moonphaze> was not!
<moonphaze> you are all mentally
unstable
* moonphaze sneaks up on ren and slap
hir with her floppy left breast
<moonphaze> you want to get slapped with
my right breast?
<moonphaze> yes
+ren+
The main web page I gave contained an extract from the book I used
in my research.