A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part One of Two Parts)
Richard Ballard
Issued approximately twenty-one days before each sabbat -- last
updated on June 3, 2003. Part Two of this message follows in a
subsequent message. Each issue's new and significantly changed
paragraphs begin with a <*> marker.
<*> [RB comment: I have provided a discussion of Wicca-related
definitions in earlier messages entitled "Definitions for
Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part One/Two of Two Parts)".]
June 21 (midnight June 22 Stonehenge time), the Northern
Hemisphere's Summer Solstice, is the sabbat Midsummer. This
sabbat was called Vestalia in ancient Rome and Alban Heflin
in the Anglo-Saxon tradition. Summer Solstice marks the longest
day(light) of the year, the height of the Sun's (symbolizing
the Wiccan God's) power.
The Midsummer sabbat celebrates fertility. The Wiccan Goddess
is heavy with pregnancy, new farm animals soon will be born,
and the Earth is green with crops and vegetation -- yet
fertility rites continue both to ensure an abundant harvest
and also to ensure the continued prosperity of Pagan
families. The Midsummer sabbat also celebrates the Sun which
warms the fertile Earth, and the strength of the Horned God
and father. Midsummer balefires symbolize the strength of the
Sun and the Pagan father, and (a-hem) fertility celebrations
often accompany the lighting of the balefire.
Some Wiccan Traditions alternate their God personna. The
Holly King rules as Horned God from the Summer Solstice (Midsummer,
June 22nd) through the Winter Solstice (Yule, December 22nd), and
the Oak King rules as Horned God from the Winter Solstice (Yule,
December 22nd) through the Summer Solstice (Midsummer, June 22nd).
These Traditions might stage a Midsummer ritual battle symbolizing
the Holly King vanquishing the Oak King -- in a Yule ritual battle
the Oak King will vanquish the Holly King. This 'changing of
the Kings' marks the annual cycle of the sun.
In Greek mythos the goddess Persephone (Proserpine) was
abducted by Pluto (the God of the Underworld). Persephone's mother
Ceres (the Goddess of fertility and abundance) mourned and the
Earth grew barren. The Earth survived only through the intervention
of the other Gods. The other Gods forced a compromise where
Persephone alternately spent six months aboveground (Summer) with
her mother Ceres, and six months belowground in Hades (Winter) as
Pluto's queen and consort. The earth (and Persephone) was fertile
and warm during the six summer months Persephone spent with Ceres.
The earth (and Persephone) was barren and cold during the six winter
months Ceres mourned Persephone's time as Pluto's consort.
In the Twenty First Century with its high divorce rates
other analogies can be drawn. Children of divorced parents often
live with each of their biological parents during a portion of
the year. Midsummer (end of the school year) and Yule (semester
break) are times when childrens' transition between parents
might occur. And the 'changing of the Kings' can symbolize
separation and divorce -- a new and loving partner vanquishing
an indifferent, abusive, or (morally-)bankrupt partner.
<*> Many tribes view Midsummer as a time for family closeness.
Scandinavians celebrate Thing-Tide just after the time of Midsummer
-- Thing-Tide is a gathering of families to conduct business
before celebration and feasting. St. John's Day is celebrated
in Ireland just before the time of the Midsummer Sabbat -- some
Irish believe that faeries cart off prized livestock and
unsuspecting human revelers (particularly young maidens) on
St. John's Day. German folklore contains numerous stories of
unwise persons who wandered into the woods during Midsummer
never to return -- consider 'Hansel and Gretel', where the
witch attempts to bake Hansel and keep Gretel as a servant.
The association of Midsummer with family closeness (and the
stories of family members disappearing during Midsummer) might be
related related to the myth of Persephone's abduction by Pluto.
The Holly King / Oak King Tradition might be related to the myth
of Persephone serving two rulers -- Pluto the god of Hades and
Persephone's mother Ceres, the goddess of fertility and abundance.
Midsummer sabbat is the traditional time to gather magickal
and medicinal plants to dry and store for winter use. (This
practice explains why Midsummer sabbat is called Gathering
Day in Wales.) The Celtic Druids gathered their sacred
mistletoe (the golden bough) on Midsummer sabbat. The North
American Miami Indians gathered buckeyes (horse chestnuts)
to fashion into protective amulets and jewelry. Lavender can
be gathered for use as an aphrodisiac incense. Pine cones
can be fashioned into powerful amulets for protection,
fertility and virility.
With this Sabbat approaching many Wiccans are discussing
Wicca more openly, and many of their friends are hearing about
Wicca for the first time. These friends might ask "How can I
learn about Wicca?"
<*> Texts and films are one source of quality information, and
texts and films do not contain oathbound secrets. If One wants
to provide a list of Wiccan references to friends I recommend
the following references (and recommend that they be read/viewed
in the order given):
1) "Wicca: A Guide For The Solitary Practitioner"
by Scott Cunningham.
5 stars -- A Practical Guide for the Solitary Wiccan
Scott Cunningham is well-regarded within the Wiccan community
and his "Wicca: A Guide For The Solitary Practitioner" is very
popular, particularly with prospective Wiccan novices. Yet
some people discredit Mr. Cunningham because his Tradition
permits Wiccan solitary worshippers to self-initiate. Other
people discredit Mr. Cunningham because they believe that he
does not differentiate between witches and Wiccans.
In "Wicca: A Guide For The Solitary Practioner" Scott Cunningham
expresses a philosophy (mirroring the agnostic philosophy of
twice Nobel Laurate Lord Bertrand Russell) that ethics are of
greater importance than strict adherence to religious dogma. In
consequence, sincere worshippers *can* self-initiate under Mr.
Cunningham's stated philosophy and Wiccan Tradition. BTW, this
liberal philosophy also is consistent with the Seax-Wica Tradition
described by Raymond Buckland in "The Tree: The Complete Book of
Saxon Witchcraft".
Integral to many Wiccan Traditions (e.g., Cunningham, Buckland) is
the tenet that Wiccan Covens and solitary worshippers are free to
define and modify their Traditions. There is *no requirement*
that a Wiccan solitary worshipper have any contact or
correspondence with a (lineaged) Wiccan Coven or High Priest/ess.
There is *no requirement* that a self-initiated Wiccan solitary
worshipper serve a 'year-and-a-day' apprenticeship prior to
becoming a Wiccan solitary worshipper. Likewise, Covens are
*not bound* to require a 'year-and-a-day' apprenticeship prior
to initiating Coven members.
Scott Cunningham *did* differentiate between witches and Wiccans.
Reading the entire text is best, but prospective Wiccan novices
can verify quickly the difference in Scott Cunningham's definitions
by comparing his definitions for 'Wicca' and 'Witch' given on pages
203 and 204 of the above-referenced text.
Wiccan Coven members might disagree with Mr. Cunningham's
statements. I equate their disagreement with a difference of
Wiccan Tradition. I believe that Wiccan Covens and solitary
worshippers (and authors) are free to define and modify their
own Wiccan Traditions.
2) "Inside A Witches' Coven" by Edain McCoy.
5 stars -- Common Sense Discussion of Joining A Coven
3) "The Sabbats: A New Approach to Living the Old Ways"
by Edain McCoy.
5 stars -- A Celebration Of The Pagan Sabbats
Ms. Edain McCoy is controversial within the Pagan community.
Magick sometimes is described as being left- or right-handed
magick. Left-handed magick tends to be dark (obscuring),
domineering, *chaotic* magick with little regard for ethics or
morality. [Imagine the most misleading pre-election political
advertisements possible -- a perfect example of chaotic,
left-handed magick.] Left-handed magick often is associated
with satanism and has gained popularity in the past several
years. Right-handed magick tends to be light (illuminating),
non-interfering *benign* magick. Ms. McCoy specializes in
wholesome light magick. I believe that Ms. McCoy's critics
are criticizing Ms. McCoy's wholesome light magick more than
they are criticizing Ms. McCoy.
Some accuse Ms. McCoy of poor scholarship, and criticize the
Irish 'Witta' Tradition that she presents in her book "Witta:
An Irish Pagan Tradition". Their principal arguments are
that 'Witta' is not linguistically correct in the Celtic
tongue, and that the Irish could not have worshipped a 'potato
Goddess' because the Irish potato was a New World vegetable.
I believe these arguments can *not* be supported. First,
Gerald Gardner *invented* Wicca in the mid-1900's. The Irish
potato existed in Ireland long before the mid-1900's -- the
Irish potato is *prehistoric* in a Wiccan sense. Furthermore,
the right of Wiccan Covens and solitary worshippers (and Wiccan
authors) to define and modify their own Traditions is a central
Wiccan tenet -- Ms. McCoy's Irish 'Witta' Tradition and Gerald
Gardner's Gardnerian Wicca Tradition are equally valid. I
equate a statement "Your Tradition contains errors or blatant
falsities" to the statement "Your Tradition differs from my
Tradition". The work of Wiccan authors reflects their own
Traditions.
Furthermore, I believe that the Irish potato *is* an Old World
vegetable, and was found on the European continent (including
the British Isles). My "College Edition, Webster's New World
Dictionary of the American Language (... based upon and includes
material from Webster's New World Dictionary, Encyclopedic
Edition)", c 1953, 1954, ... 1966 states 'potato ... [Sp. patata,
var. of batata, sweet potato < a Haitian word] ...'. I acknowledge
that French is the 'official' language of Haiti, but Haitian
slaves were Africans. (Attempts to enslave the South/Central
American Indians failed because Indians captured and isolated
from their tribes and families quickly perished without their
freedom.) I believe it likely that while affluent Haitian
planters dined on French cuisine, their imported African slaves
ate poor food (including *sweet potatoes*), food that the imported
African slaves named in their African tongue. Concerning the
reference to the Spanish word patata, first the Arabs and then
the Moors (i.e., Moroccans/Mauritanians) each occupied the
southern portion of the Iberian peninsula for a separate 200 year
period -- 400 years of occupation. This occupation presented an
opportunity for African roots (both food and linguistic) to affect
Spanish culture, architecture and language.
I have observed *no evidence* that Irish potatoes are a New World
vegetable. Corn (maize) is a New World vegetable. During the
Irish potato famine the United States attempted to provide famine
relief by sending corn (commonly eaten in the United States) to
the Irish. The Irish refused to eat corn because they considered
corn to be cattle feed. I am originally from the Corn Belt, and
I know that some varieties of corn are so tough that they are fit
*only* for cattle feed. [Many people in the United States would
refuse to eat 'grits', particularly if they have dental problems
exacerbated by age and/or poor nutrition. There were few 'dentists'
(irony acknowledged) in Ireland at the time of the Irish potato
famine.] The starving Irish would have gratefully accepted wheat
("... Give us this day our daily bread ...") -- the United States
sent corn. I recommend that skeptics read the novel "The Jungle"
by Upton Sinclair -- many United States' GIs read that novel
*after* returning from World War I.
Irish potatoes were a mainstay of the Irish diet, and it is
appropriate that Wittans associate potatoes with the
fertile Goddess.
I believe that Ms. McCoy's usage of the word 'Witta' and
including potatoes within her Irish Wittan Tradition is
appropriate -- the usage harms no one. If an individual
(or author) wants to incorporate a given word or concept within
their own Tradition that is their right as long as they are not
hindering others' worship. ***Self-determination is a Wiccan
right.*** I believe that comments criticizing Ms. McCoy's
scholarship and her Witta Tradition are biased personal attacks
against Ms. McCoy and her wholesome Wittan Tradition.
<*> Individuals have responded to earlier versions of this
message by claiming that *I* am guilty of poor or weak scholarship
because I have *not* recommended that prospective Wiccan novices
study ancient obscure Wiccan texts. By design my reference
list is oriented towards *novices* -- individuals with little
prior knowledge (and no commitment) to Wicca, the craft, Paganism,
or satanism. I believe that prospective Wiccan novices are *not*
interested in (and do *not* value) obscure detail. My list is
*not* oriented towards Pagan scholars and does *not* claim to be
oriented towards Pagan scholars. When I feel that an obscure
reference is suitable (or *not* suitable) for prospective
Wiccan novices I identify the reference and I justify my beliefs.
But my primary emphasis is identifying ***well- and clearly-written
references relevant to current Wiccan practices***. Ms. McCoy's
texts are well- and clearly-written, and her texts address current
topics relevant and attractive to prospective Wiccan novices.
Ms. McCoy's texts reflect a wholesome Pagan ethic that helps
distinguish Wicca and other forms of Paganism from witchcraft
and satanism. (And Ms. McCoy apparently lives within the oaken
forests of southern Indiana, an area I know personally.) I highly
recommend Ms. McCoy's wholesome texts to prospective Wiccan novices.
<*> 4) "Haxan: Witchcraft Through The Ages"
by director Benjamin Christensen
5 stars -- A valuable seventy year old reference
<*> "Haxan: ..." is a 1929 silent film that was updated in 1967
with an avant garde jazz score and narration by William Burroughs
(author of "The Naked Lunch"). "Haxan: ..." clearly is prejudicial
against witches, yet I consider "Haxan: ..." a valuable reference
for two reasons. First, "Haxan: ..." graphically documents public
perception of witchcraft and demonic possession in the year 1929.
In addition, "Haxan: ..." graphically documents that public perception
of witchcraft and demonic possession has *not* changed much since the
year 1929.
<*> "Haxan: ..." discusses persecution of witches during 'The Burning
Times' (also discussed in "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Wicca and
Witchcraft" listed later in this message). "Haxan: ..." (and "The
Complete Idiot's Guide ...") does not discuss the possibility that
The Burning Times were initiated when livestock and peasants ate
wet ergot-infested grain, developed epileptic-like seizures, and
overzealous inquisitors interpreted the seizures as evidence of
demonic possession. "Haxan: ..." portrays witches simultaneously
as drawn to sensual demonic rituals, and as cold and sexually
dysfunctional women seeking the financial security that accompanies
marriage.
<*> My interpretation of "Haxan: ..." is that marriage to an abusive
husband can seem like demonic possession (particularly if poor
finances or societal custom preclude the escape that divorce offers),
and that marriage to an abusive or indifferent husband can create
a sexually dysfunctional woman. I also admit the possibility that
in a paternalistic society (such as colonial America) where divorce
was not permitted, accusing a wife or woman lover of witchcraft was
one method to terminate an unhappy relationship. Current United
States society is more gender-neutral -- as a result either partner
can falsely charge the other when an unhappy relationship exists.
<*> IMO many people (including Wiccans, witches, satanists and other
Pagans) have difficulty distinguishing Wicca (a religion) from
witchcraft (goal-oriented magick use). Ethics, morality and
religion appear nowhere with Haxan's witches. IMO ethics and morality
*must* be included with Wiccan tenets if Wicca is to be
distinguishable from generic witchcraft and satanism.
5) "The Practice of Witchcraft Today: An Introduction to
Beliefs and Rituals" by Robin Skelton
5 stars -- A detailed overview of Wiccan practices for the
advanced novice
6) "The Tree: The Complete Book of Saxon Witchcraft"
by Raymond Buckland
5 stars -- The Saxon Wiccan's Free Will Book of Spells
<*> 7) "Tattoo" starring Bruce Dern and Maude Adams
4 stars -- A flawed Creation story
<*> "Tattoo" is *not* a story of Wicca or witchcraft, but some
Wiccan initiation rituals require that the initiate accept the
Coven's sigil tattoo before initiation. "Tattoo" is the story
of an obsessed tattoo artist who drugs and kidnaps a woman.
The woman awakens to find she has become the tattoo artist's
canvas and that the tattoo artist is consecrating her body with
tattoos -- the obsessed artist is creating his Goddess.
<*> Being tattooed is a permanent and painful commitment.
"Tattoo" portrays creation of large exquisite pastel tattoos.
"Tattoo" does portray physical pain during tattooing, but
opaque body paint was used to simulate the pastel tattoos.
Most tattoos utilize dark colors that are easy to repair in
case of abrasion, flaking due to winter dryness, or sunburn
peeling -- pastel inks are difficult to patch successfully.
Tattooed skin requires care to maintain tattoo beauty. To
maintain her exquisite pastel tattoos' beauty, the woman
portrayed in "Tattoo" would be forced to become a hothouse
plant.
<*> I recommend that any person interested in getting tattooed
read the two Frequently Asked Questions documents (FAQs)
provided periodically on the rec.arts.bodyart Internet newsgroup.
Reading these FAQs will answer many questions, and will help
interested persons ask informed questions when evaluating
tattoo artists and their facilities. I further recommend that
anyone being tattooed follow their tattoo artist's skin care
instructions.
<*> I have no tattoos.
<*> 8) "Skin Art" by director W. Blake Herron
3 stars -- Branded for slavery
<*> "Skin Art" is *not* a story of Wicca or witchcraft. "Skin Art"
is the story of Southeast Asian women who are purchased and
imported to work in a local Oriental bordello. Prior to working
in the bordello each woman's entire back and shoulders are covered
with an ornate tattoo. The bordello's customers find the tattoos
stimulating, while the painful tattooing process is part of the
bordello's submissiveness training.
<*> I include "Skin Art" in this list because of a personal
experience. I once attended a college repertory event at the
school year start. The audience included a young woman whose
head was shaved and whose scalp held a partially-completed
dragon tattoo in black outline. A woman might want to tattoo
a body part that is normally covered by clothing, but why hide
a tattoo where a future spouse was unlikely to discover it?
I know only one justification: the young woman was an extortion
victim and the hidden tattoo was verification to be used in
extortion claims against the woman's future husband.
<*> Branding by tattooing [less frequently by thermal branding]
sometimes occurs in the United States, but more often women are
bound by indebtness (e.g., car payments) and several hungry
children in a poor domestic economy.
<*> I have no tattoos.
*****End of Part One*****
The comments contained herein are my opinions. This message
was not solicited or remunerated by Amazon.com, any author, or
their agent(s).
I am _not_ qualified to provide legal or medical opinions.
The comments contained herein are my opinions.
Some people do not agree with my opinions.
I am *not* a Wiccan, a witch, a Pagan or a satanist.
I am a single man who lives alone in his private home.
My home is my sanctuary.
*****Come as a friend or don't come at all.*****
No players in I owns.
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at www.amazon.com
Last book review: "Cults In Our Midst: ..."
by Margaret Thaler Singer
Richard Ballard
rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard) writes:
><*> Many tribes view Midsummer as a time for family closeness.
>Scandinavians celebrate Thing-Tide just after the time of Midsummer
> -- Thing-Tide is a gathering of families to conduct business
>before celebration and feasting. St. John's Day is celebrated
>in Ireland just before the time of the Midsummer Sabbat -- some
>Irish believe that faeries cart off prized livestock and
>unsuspecting human revelers (particularly young maidens) on
>St. John's Day. German folklore contains numerous stories of
>unwise persons who wandered into the woods during Midsummer
>never to return -- consider 'Hansel and Gretel', where the
>witch attempts to bake Hansel and keep Gretel as a servant.
It probably is more accurate to state that Hansel was
to be roasted.
<snip>
><*> 8) "Skin Art" by director W. Blake Herron
> 3 stars -- Branded for slavery
>
><*> "Skin Art" is *not* a story of Wicca or witchcraft. "Skin Art"
>is the story of Southeast Asian women who are purchased and
>imported to work in a local Oriental bordello. Prior to working
>in the bordello each woman's entire back and shoulders are covered
>with an ornate tattoo. The bordello's customers find the tattoos
>stimulating, while the painful tattooing process is part of the
>bordello's submissiveness training.
>
><*> I include "Skin Art" in this list because of a personal
>experience. I once attended a college repertory event at the
>school year start. The audience included a young woman whose
>head was shaved and whose scalp held a partially-completed
>dragon tattoo in black outline. A woman might want to tattoo
>a body part that is normally covered by clothing, but why hide
>a tattoo where a future spouse was unlikely to discover it?
>I know only one justification: the young woman was an extortion
>victim and the hidden tattoo was verification to be used in
>extortion claims against the woman's future husband.
Consider the following excerpt from Psalm 23
(King David's Psalm):
"... Thou preparest a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
thou anointest my head with oil,
my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
for ever."
I am not a Biblical scholar, but I associate with Psalm 23
a Biblical injunction: "I shall not lie down with my enemies."
("I will not submit.")
I am forced to assume that the abovementioned woman
with the scalp tattoo hoped to hide her tattoo from her
future husband. I also am forced to assume that some
person held either photographic or video records of the
woman with her scalp tattoo engaged in activities that
compromised her possibility for a good faith relationship
with her future husband. I hope that the woman found
candor in her heart.
><*> Branding by tattooing [less frequently by thermal branding]
>sometimes occurs in the United States, but more often women are
>bound by indebtness (e.g., car payments) and several hungry
>children in a poor domestic economy.
>
><*> I have no tattoos.
<snip>
Richard Ballard
Part Two is contained in a subsequent message titled "A Reference
List For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part Two of Two Parts)".
Helpful definitions were included in earlier messages entitled
"Definitions For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part One/Two of
Two Parts)". Each issue's new and significantly changed paragraphs
begin with a <*> marker.
<*> August first Midnight Stonehenge time (July 31st 7:00 PM CDT
in my locale) is the sabbat Lammas [an Anglo-Saxon word meaning
loaf-mass (bread) and the most commonly-used name for this sabbat].
In old Irish a variant Lunasa means 'August'. Lammas also is known
as Lughnasadh (Loo-nahs-ah), First Harvest, and the Sabbat of the
First Fruits. Lammas honors the Sun God Lugh (Loo) and his queen
Dana, but Lammas principally is a grain festival. In ancient
Phoenicia this festival honored the grain god Dagon, and a
significant portion of the harvest was sacrificed to him.
Similarly, Native Americans celebrate early August as a grain
festival and call it the Festival of the Maize. Corn, wheat,
barley, and other Northern Hemisphere grains are ready for
harvesting by early August. Lammas is the first of the three
harvest sabbats and a celebration of the Earth's fertility. Corn,
wheat, potatoes and other crops harvested around Lammas are
considered fertility plants and can be employed within Lammas
rituals.
<*> In Romania's Transylvanian Alps (high in the Carpathian Mountains
and the legendary home of Dracula) a fertility ritual involving
animal sacrifice is practiced the first Sunday of August. A live
sow is slain ritually on the high slopes of Mt. Chefleau in thanks
for the abundant harvest, the sow's blood is allowed to flow into
the earth, then the peasants touch their hands to the wet ground
and mark the sign of the cross (for protection and self-blessing)
in wet blood on their foreheads. Some groups mimic this
Transylvanian custom, honoring the pig as an efficient converter
of grain into lean meat during abundant times. Many groups use
red wine to symbolize blood during their rituals. Other groups
might mimic this Transylvanian custom exactly (i.e., blood from
animal ritual sacrifice) or even utilize human blood (e.g., from
a deliberate cut). Recalling that the Lammas sabbat *does*
celebrate fertility, some groups might employ human menstrual blood
during their Lammas ritual. And it is conceivable that some groups
might employ human virginal blood within their Lammas ritual (i.e.,
a female virgin has her first sex as a part of the group's Lammas
ritual).
With this sabbat approaching, many Wiccans are discussing
Wicca more openly, and many of their friends are hearing about
Wicca for the first time. These friends might ask "How can I
learn about Wicca?"
Texts and films are one source of quality information, and
Individuals have responded to earlier versions of this
message by claiming that *I* am guilty of poor or weak scholarship
because I have *not* recommended that prospective Wiccan novices
study ancient obscure Wiccan texts. By design my reference
list is oriented towards *novices* -- individuals with little
prior knowledge (and no commitment) to Wicca, the craft, Paganism,
or satanism. I believe that prospective Wiccan novices are *not*
interested in (and do *not* value) obscure detail. My list is
*not* oriented towards Pagan scholars and does *not* claim to be
oriented towards Pagan scholars. When I feel that an obscure
reference is suitable (or *not* suitable) for prospective
Wiccan novices I identify the reference and I justify my beliefs.
But my primary emphasis is identifying ***well- and clearly-written
references relevant to current Wiccan practices***. Ms. McCoy's
texts are well- and clearly-written, and her texts address current
topics relevant and attractive to prospective Wiccan novices.
Ms. McCoy's texts reflect a wholesome Pagan ethic that helps
distinguish Wicca and other forms of Paganism from witchcraft
and satanism. (And Ms. McCoy apparently lives within the oaken
forests of southern Indiana, an area I know personally.) I highly
recommend Ms. McCoy's wholesome texts to prospective Wiccan novices.
4) "Haxan: Witchcraft Through The Ages"
by director Benjamin Christensen
5 stars -- A valuable seventy year old reference
"Haxan: ..." is a 1929 silent film that was updated in 1967
with an avant garde jazz score and narration by William Burroughs
(author of "The Naked Lunch"). "Haxan: ..." clearly is prejudicial
against witches, yet I consider "Haxan: ..." a valuable reference
for two reasons. First, "Haxan: ..." graphically documents public
perception of witchcraft and demonic possession in the year 1929.
In addition, "Haxan: ..." graphically documents that public perception
of witchcraft and demonic possession has *not* changed much since the
year 1929.
"Haxan: ..." discusses persecution of witches during 'The Burning
Times' (also discussed in "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Wicca and
Witchcraft" listed later in this message). "Haxan: ..." (and "The
Complete Idiot's Guide ...") does not discuss the possibility that
The Burning Times were initiated when livestock and peasants ate
wet ergot-infested grain, developed epileptic-like seizures, and
overzealous inquisitors interpreted the seizures as evidence of
demonic possession. "Haxan: ..." portrays witches simultaneously
as drawn to sensual demonic rituals, and as cold and sexually
dysfunctional women seeking the financial security that accompanies
marriage.
My interpretation of "Haxan: ..." is that marriage to an abusive
husband can seem like demonic possession (particularly if poor
finances or societal custom preclude the escape that divorce offers),
and that marriage to an abusive or indifferent husband can create
a sexually dysfunctional woman. I also admit the possibility that
in a paternalistic society (such as colonial America) where divorce
was not permitted, accusing a wife or woman lover of witchcraft was
one method to terminate an unhappy relationship. Current United
States society is more gender-neutral -- either partner can falsely
charge the other when an unhappy relationship exists.
IMO many people (including Wiccans, witches, satanists and other
Pagans) have difficulty distinguishing Wicca (a religion) from
witchcraft (goal-oriented magick use). Ethics, morality and
religion appear nowhere with Haxan's witches. IMO ethics and morality
*must* be included within Wiccan tenets if Wicca is to be
distinguishable from generic witchcraft and satanism.
5) "The Practice of Witchcraft Today: An Introduction to
Beliefs and Rituals" by Robin Skelton
5 stars -- A detailed overview of Wiccan practices for the
advanced novice
6) "The Tree: The Complete Book of Saxon Witchcraft"
by Raymond Buckland
5 stars -- The Saxon Wiccan's Free Will Book of Spells
I recommend the following film *despite reservations*:
7) "Tattoo" starring Bruce Dern and Maude Adams
4 stars -- A flawed Creation story
"Tattoo" is *not* a story of Wicca or witchcraft, but some
Wiccan initiation rituals require that the initiate accept the
Coven's sigil tattoo before initiation. "Tattoo" is the story
of an obsessed tattoo artist who drugs and kidnaps a woman.
The woman awakens to find she has become the tattoo artist's
canvas and that the tattoo artist is consecrating her body with
tattoos -- the obsessed artist is creating his Goddess.
Being tattooed is a permanent and painful commitment.
"Tattoo" portrays creation of large exquisite pastel tattoos.
"Tattoo" does portray physical pain during tattooing, but
opaque body paint was used to simulate the pastel tattoos.
Most tattoos utilize dark colors that are easy to repair in
case of abrasion, flaking due to winter dryness, or sunburn
peeling -- pastel inks are difficult to patch successfully.
Tattooed skin requires care to maintain tattoo beauty. To
maintain her exquisite pastel tattoos' beauty, the woman
portrayed in "Tattoo" would be forced to become a hothouse
plant.
I recommend that any person interested in getting tattooed
read the two Frequently Asked Questions documents (FAQs)
provided periodically on the rec.arts.bodyart Internet newsgroup.
Reading these FAQs will answer many questions, and will help
interested persons ask informed questions when evaluating
tattoo artists and their facilities. I further recommend that
anyone being tattooed follow their tattoo artist's skin care
instructions.
I have no tattoos.
I recommend the following film *despite reservations*:
8) "Skin Art" by director W. Blake Herron
3 stars -- Branded for slavery
"Skin Art" is *not* a story of Wicca or witchcraft. "Skin Art"
is the story of Southeast Asian women who are purchased and
imported to work in a local Oriental bordello. Prior to working
in the bordello each woman's entire back and shoulders are covered
with an ornate tattoo. The bordello's customers find the tattoos
stimulating, while the painful tattooing process is part of the
bordello's submissiveness training.
I include "Skin Art" in this list because of a personal
experience. I once attended a college repertory event at the
school year start. The audience included a young woman whose
head was shaved and whose scalp held a partially-completed
dragon tattoo in black outline. A woman might want to tattoo
a body part that is normally covered by clothing, but why hide
a tattoo where a future spouse was unlikely to discover it?
I know only one justification: the young woman was an extortion
victim and the hidden tattoo was verification to be used in
extortion claims against the woman's future husband.
Consider the following excerpt from Psalm 23
(King David's Psalm):
"... Thou preparest a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
thou anointest my head with oil,
my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
for ever."
I am not a Biblical scholar, but I associate with Psalm 23
a Biblical injunction: "I shall not lie down with my enemies."
("I will not submit.")
I am forced to assume that the abovementioned woman
with the scalp tattoo hoped to hide her tattoo from her
future husband. I also am forced to assume that some
person held either photographic or video records of the
woman with her scalp tattoo engaged in activities that
compromised her possibility for a good faith relationship
with her future husband. I hope that the woman found
candor in her heart.
Branding by tattooing [less frequently by thermal branding]
sometimes occurs in the United States, but more often women are
bound by indebtness (e.g., car payments) and several hungry
children in a poor domestic economy.
I have no tattoos.
*****End of Part One*****
The comments contained herein are my opinions. This message
was not solicited or remunerated by Amazon.com, any author, or
their agent(s).
I am _not_ qualified to provide legal or medical opinions.
I got no problems
20:51:00
20:52:00
'Life in the trailer park'
is a *long* sentence
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at www.amazon.com
Last book review: "Combatting Cult Mind Control"
by Steven Hassan
Jani
into "other people's rituals".
Jani
"Richard Ballard" <rball...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030711140654...@mb-m18.aol.com...
Richard Ballard
"Jani" <ja...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>Richard, are you OK? You don't usually throw yourself so
>whole-heartedly into "other people's rituals".
>
>Jani
I am well. Thank you for inquiring.
I got no problems
20:05:15 20:05:15
The Talesinator
> In article <krGPa.9008$I51.68...@news-text.cableinet.net>,
> "Jani" <ja...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>
> >Richard, are you OK? You don't usually throw yourself so
> >whole-heartedly into "other people's rituals".
> >
> >Jani
>
> I am well. Thank you for inquiring.
She does not care. The troll is just stirring shit as usual
--
Talesin- The Bad Boy of Witchcraft (tm)
"Arguing with Talesin is like running in the special
Olympics: even if you win, you are still retarded "
http://home.kc.rr.com/pendragonsloft
Get your daily Dragon: http://www.pendragonsloft.blogspot.com/
© 2003 by Talesin- The Bad Boy of Witchcraft. All rights reserved
Gargoyle
us, here. hehehe
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:35:33 GMT, "The Talesinator"
<the_wi...@XyahooX.com> wrote:
>
>"Richard Ballard" <rball...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20030712114156...@mb-m07.aol.com...
>> In article <krGPa.9008$I51.68...@news-text.cableinet.net>,
>> "Jani" <ja...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>>
>> >Richard, are you OK? You don't usually throw yourself so
>> >whole-heartedly into "other people's rituals".
>> >
>> >Jani
>>
>> I am well. Thank you for inquiring.
>
>She does not care. The troll is just stirring shit as usual
Gargoyle, The Evil Mr. Peanut - >;)_~~~~~
What am I? I am what your darkest nightmares fear most.
Richard Ballard
More below.
In article <90b4hvo3l7b87ta11...@4ax.com>,
Gargoyle <ga...@pacbell.net> writes:
Tarzan, your response is a perfect example of what I consider
a disturbing trend on the Pagan-related Internet newsgroups --
a flood of negativity.
Increasingly the environment in the Pagan-related newsgroups
reminds me of the Vietnam War era events preceding the
resignation of Vice President Spiro T. Agnew. Vice President
Agnew was a very vocal critic of Vietnam War protesters, and
repeatedly complained about "nattering nabobs of negativism".
At the time this quotation was one of the funniest quotations
I had heard in my life.
Now I survey the Pagan-related Internet newsgroups and
observe a flood on negativism and hostility. Now those
nattering nabobs of negativism are not so funny.
Tarzan, go climb back up your tree and swing with
Cheeta and his friends.
Richard Ballard
document. Rather than waiting until 21 days before the
Mabon sabbat to issue a version containing the revisions, I
am reissueing the Lammas version in its entirety. Additions
and revisions are marked with a <*> marker.
*****Beginning of document*****
Copyright 2003 by Richard J. Ballard -- All Rights Reserved.
Issued approximately twenty-one days before each sabbat.
Each issue's new and significantly changed paragraphs begin
with a <*> marker.
Part Two is contained in a subsequent message titled "A Reference
List For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part Two of Two Parts)".
Helpful definitions were included in earlier messages entitled
"Definitions For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part One/Two of
Two Parts)".
August first Midnight Stonehenge time (July 31st 7:00 PM CDT
in my locale) is the sabbat Lammas [an Anglo-Saxon word meaning
loaf-mass (bread) and the most commonly-used name for this sabbat].
In old Irish a variant Lunasa means 'August'. Lammas also is known
as Lughnasadh (Loo-nahs-ah), First Harvest, and the Sabbat of the
First Fruits. Lammas honors the Sun God Lugh (Loo) and his queen
Dana, but Lammas principally is a grain festival. In ancient
Phoenicia this festival honored the grain god Dagon, and a
significant portion of the harvest was sacrificed to him.
Similarly, Native Americans celebrate early August as a grain
festival and call it the Festival of the Maize. Corn, wheat,
barley, and other Northern Hemisphere grains are ready for
harvesting by early August. Lammas is the first of the three
harvest sabbats and a celebration of the Earth's fertility. Corn,
wheat, potatoes and other crops harvested around Lammas are
considered fertility plants and can be employed within Lammas
rituals.
In Romania's Transylvanian Alps (high in the Carpathian Mountains
<*> Interestingly, "Haxan: ..." depicts demonic skin as rough and
patterned. Depending upon your perspective, the depiction either
is lizard-like or resembles the rash that occurs in later stages
of syphilis infection.
I have no tattoos.
I have no tattoos.
*****End of Part One*****
<*> The comments contained herein are my opinions. This message
was not solicited by Amazon.com, any author, any artist, or their
agent(s), publisher(s), producer(s) or distributor(s).
<*> I am *not* an Islamic scholar.
<*> I am *not* legally qualified to provide medical, psychological,
legal, financial or religious opinions, but I have discussed some
issues with my Attorney and have read extensively in these areas.
I have strong opinions.
I got no problems
20:05:15 20:05:15
Richard Ballard
document. Rather than waiting until 21 days before the
Mabon sabbat to issue a version containing the revisions, I
additions and revisions are marked with a <*> marker.
*****Beginning of document*****
Copyright 2003 by Richard J. Ballard -- All Rights Reserved.
Issued approximately twenty-one days before each sabbat.
Each issue's new and significantly changed paragraphs begin
with a <*> marker.
<*> Part Two is contained in a subsequent message titled
"A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part Two
of Two Parts)". Helpful definitions were included in earlier
messages entitled "Definitions For Prospective Wiccan Novices
(Part One/Two/Three of Three Parts)".
Interestingly, "Haxan: ..." depicts demonic skin as rough and
<*> I have no tattoos, but I know people who have extensive,
difficult-to-patch pastel tattoos. I know the care
these people take to keep their extensive pastel tattoos
looking attractive.
<*> IMO the two rec.arts.bodyart FAQs are well-written
and informative. These FAQs stress the skin care
required to prevent damage to pastel tattoos, and
the FAQs stress health considerations required
during and after tattoo application.
<*> I provide additional information concerning tattoos
and thermal branding of human skin later in this document.
<*> Many tattoos are applied using saturated color (e.g.,
primarily dark black, but also dark red and dark blue)
inks exclusively. The advantage of using saturated
color inks is that should the tattooed area later become
damaged due to abrasion, skin dryness or sunburn,
the tattoo can be patched without 'color match' problems
-- e.g., dark black is dark black, etc.
<*> When tattoos employing pastel colored inks are damaged,
the tattoo artist can encounter 'color match' problems
similar to the paint matching problems that auto body
shops encounter. ***Light-colored pastel inks are difficult
to exactly color match, particularly if the skin damage
changes the underlying skin's characteristics (e.g., as
the result of bad sunburn).***
<*> Individuals receiving tattoos employing pastel-colored
inks must be especially careful that their tattoos do not
become damaged if they want to maintain the beauty of their
pastel-colored tattoos. *I have no tattoos*, but I know
people who have extensive, difficult-to-patch pastel tattoos.
I know the care these people take to keep their extensive
pastel tattoos looking attractive.
<*> IMO the two rec.arts.bodyart FAQs are well-written
and informative. These FAQs stress the skin care
required to prevent damage to pastel tattoos, and
the FAQs stress health considerations required
during and after tattoo application.
<*> In November 1998 I downloaded the "rec.arts.bodyart:
Alternative Bodyart FAQ" from the Ohio State FAQ website.
I do not know if the "rec.arts.bodyart: Alternative Bodyart
FAQ" still is available on the Internet. This FAQ discusses
thermal branding of human skin. ***The "rec.arts.bodyart:
Alternative Bodyart FAQ" is a very uncomfortable document.***
<*> IMO the rationale for thermal branding of human skin (rather
than tattooing) are:
<*> 1) Rite of passage in some organizations and societies
<*> 2) Economical and fast alternative to group tattooing
<*> 3) No possibility of infection from a red hot branding iron
<*> 4) Once healed, thermal brands are free from the maintenance
problems associated with (pastel-colored) tattoos
<*> 5) Punishment and deterrent (For example, pain inflicted
as an example both to the affected individual and also to the
witnessing overall group. This ain't Nirvana, but it *is*
another way to enforce a binding oath of obedience. Some people
might prefer having a gun put to their head.)
*****End of Part One*****
The comments contained herein are my opinions. This message
was not solicited by Amazon.com, any author, any artist, or their
agent(s), publisher(s), producer(s) or distributor(s).
I am *not* an Islamic or Judaic scholar.
I am *not* legally qualified to provide medical, psychological,
legal, financial or religious opinions, but I have discussed some
issues with my Attorney and have read extensively in these areas.
I have strong opinions.
$600K for a starter house in LA?
I got no problems
20:50:05 20:50:05
j11
rball...@aol.com wrote on 07/24/2003 4:11 PM:
<snipped for brevity>
>
> 8) "Skin Art" by director W. Blake Herron
> 3 stars -- Branded for slavery
>
> "Skin Art" is *not* a story of Wicca or witchcraft. "Skin Art"
> is the story of Southeast Asian women who are purchased and
> imported to work in a local Oriental bordello. Prior to working
> in the bordello each woman's entire back and shoulders are covered
> with an ornate tattoo. The bordello's customers find the tattoos
> stimulating, while the painful tattooing process is part of the
> bordello's submissiveness training.
>
> I include "Skin Art" in this list because of a personal
> experience. I once attended a college repertory event at the
> school year start. The audience included a young woman whose
> head was shaved and whose scalp held a partially-completed
> dragon tattoo in black outline. A woman might want to tattoo
> a body part that is normally covered by clothing, but why hide
> a tattoo where a future spouse was unlikely to discover it?
> I know only one justification: the young woman was an extortion
> victim and the hidden tattoo was verification to be used in
> extortion claims against the woman's future husband.
Richard, do you think its possible that the young woman in question chose to
shave her head and have the dragon tattooed there? Why do you assume that
she is going to grow her hair back? There *are* woman who shave their heads;
its not unheard of.
How do you know that this woman plans to marry? Her "future husband" is an
assumption on your part, as is the extortion theory.
Wouldn't it be more plausible that the young woman acted out of free will?
Seems more likely to me.
Did you actually speak to her and ask about her tattoo?
j11
ba...@dmcom.net
> Did you actually speak to her and ask about her tattoo?
He bases his messages on what he sees, infers, etc. about the local
community of where he lives. Oh also the books he reads. He posts
based on his personal belief.
--
news:alt.pagan FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/altpag.txt
news:alt.religion.wicca FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/arwfaq2.txt
news:news.groups FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/ngfaq.txt
Want a new group FAQs http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/ncreate.html
Jani
"j11" <j4hd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BB45C5C6.9E08%j4hd...@earthlink.net...
For some reason, Richard finds complicated conspiracy theories far more
palatable than straightforward explanations :( Scalp tattooing is
interesting - I assumed it would damage the hair follicles, but apparently
not (although the immediate aftercare is apparently a bit fiddly because of
stubble growing through).
Jani
Figinn
"Jani" <ja...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0sYTa.2629$uc7.25...@news-text.cableinet.net...
I got a tattoo on my leg once and it took the hair nearly a year to grow in
even close to what it used to be. Dunno how that relates to hair on one's
head.
Figinn
j11
>j11 wrote:
>
>> Did you actually speak to her and ask about her tattoo?
>
>He bases his messages on what he sees, infers, etc. about the local
>community of where he lives. Oh also the books he reads. He posts
>based on his personal belief.
I suppose we all post what we consider to be our personal beliefs, yet
I don't think most people would make such...interesting leaps. ;)
(and don't forget the movies he watches---I fear he watches too many
movies)
j11
j11
He's an odd one, alright. I'd like to know how this info pertains to
those "novice wiccans" who aren't interested in the old, musty info...
Scalp tattooing works best (so I've been told) when you've already
been shaving your head for a while. Gives the scalp an opportunity to
toughen up some. Still, I can't imagine attempting to shave over a
fresh tattoo...OUCH!
j11
Jani
It doesn't. I reckon P has the best slant on the hidden agenda, there ..
> Scalp tattooing works best (so I've been told) when you've already
> been shaving your head for a while. Gives the scalp an opportunity to
> toughen up some. Still, I can't imagine attempting to shave over a
> fresh tattoo...OUCH!
> j11
Got a nice link from a bodymodder who had it done, if you're interested?
It's not particularly gory ;)
Jani
Richard Ballard
j11 <j4hd...@earthlink.net> writes:
>Scalp tattooing works best (so I've been told) when you've
>already been shaving your head for a while. Gives the scalp
>an opportunity to toughen up some.
Tattoo artists do *not* want a tough canvas.
In fact, when a particularly delicate and detailed tattoo
is planned, the person who will receive the tattoo sometimes
moisturizes the skin area for several weeks *prior* to receiving
the tattoo. Moisturizing makes the skin supple and gives the
skin a uniform texture.
>Still, I can't imagine attempting to shave over a
>fresh tattoo...OUCH!
A significant portion of a tattoo is on the skin surface.
I can not *imagine* anybody taking the risk associated
with shaving a tattooed area.
I recommend that individuals planning to get tattoos
follow their tattoo artist's care instructions both before
and after receiving the tattoo.
j11
Phoenix
Its quality and his reasons for posting it, are open to debate.
P
"Richard Ballard" <rball...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030724161114...@mb-m03.aol.com...
Richard Ballard
I consider the origin of the Irish (white) potato a Wiccan
_non-issue_ for the reasons I provide below. I hope that this
revision ends the Wiccan Irish potato issue.
"You may fire when ready, Gridley."
In article <20030724161046...@mb-m03.aol.com>,
rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard) writes:
<snip>
<*> IMO this controversy is a Wiccan _non-issue_. After some
preliminary (and flawed) research of my own, several readers
suggested Internet website references discussing the origin of
the Irish (white) potato:
<*> "http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/sustainable/peet/profiles/c15potat.html"
(no quotes); excerpts from "Sustainable Practices for Vegetable
Production in the South" by Mary M. Peet, Ph.D. Professor, Department
of Horticultural Science, North Carolina State University.
<*> "http://history-magazine.com/potato.html" (no quotes); article
'The Impact of the Potato' by Jeff Chapman on the "History Magazine"
website.
<*> "http://www.cup.org/books/kiple/potatoes.htm" (no quotes);
excerpts from "THE CAMBRIDGE WORLD HISTORY OF FOOD" edited by
Kenneth F. Kiple and Kriemhild Conee` Ornelas (the most detailed
reference).
<*> These website references indicate that the Irish (white) potato
originated in the South American Andes Mountains and propagated
naturally throughout large areas of South America, Central America
and the southern United States. Sixteenth-century Spanish explorers,
who first observed the potato in Peru, Bolivia, Colombia, and Ecuador
adopted the Quechua name, papa. The first specimens, arguably
short-day S. tuberosum ssp. andigena forms from Colombia, probably
reached Spain around 1570. All European potato varieties in the
first 250 years were derived from the original introductions, which
constituted a very narrow gene pool that left almost all potatoes
vulnerable to devastating viruses and fungal blights (e.g., the Irish
crop failures and famine) by the mid-nineteenth century. The use of
(?) manure fertilizer did not help the situation. The references
also note that some early Spanish chroniclers misused the Indian word
batata (sweet potato) as the name for the Irish (white) potato.
<*> Why is this origin controversy a Wiccan _non-issue_? Irish
(white) potatoes reached Europe in the 1570's. Gerald Gardner
*invented* Wicca in the 1950's when he invented the so-called
Gardnerian Wiccan Tradition. This means that Irish (white) potatoes
in Europe are _prehistoric_ by Wiccan standards. Ms. McCoy states
that Irish (white) potatoes are sacred in her (later) Wittan
Tradition. Irish (white) potatoes were a mainstay of the Irish
diet, and it is appropriate that Wittans associate potatoes with
the fertile Goddess. And Irish (white) potatoes in Europe predate
both Gardnerian Wicca and Ms. McCoy's Irish Witta Traditions.
<*> The right of Wiccan Covens and solitary worshippers (and Wiccan
authors) to define and modify their own Traditions is a central
Wiccan tenet. Ms. McCoy's liberal Irish 'Witta' Tradition and
Gerald Gardner's conservative Gardnerian Wicca Tradition are equally
valid. I equate a statement "Your Tradition contains errors or
blatant falsities" to the statement "Your Tradition differs from
my Tradition". The work of Wiccan authors reflects their own
Traditions. If an individual (or author) wants to incorporate a
given word or concept within their own Tradition that is their
right as long as they are not hindering others' worship.
***Self-determination is a Wiccan right.*** Ms. McCoy is free
to define her own Wittan Tradition -- the usage harms no one.
<*> IMO comments criticizing Ms. McCoy's scholarship and her Irish
Witta Tradition are biased personal attacks against Ms. McCoy and
her wholesome Tradition (attacks from the other side of the bog?).
<*> I include Ms. McCoy's texts within my reference list because
my primary emphasis is identifying ***well- and clearly-written
references relevant to current Wiccan practices***. Ms. McCoy's
texts are well- and clearly-written, and her texts address current
topics relevant and attractive to _ not committed_ prospective
Wiccan novices. Ms. McCoy's texts reflect a wholesome Pagan ethic
that helps distinguish Wicca and other forms of Paganism from
witchcraft and satanism. (And Ms. McCoy apparently lives within
the oaken forests of southern Indiana, an area I know well.) I
highly recommend Ms. McCoy's wholesome texts to _not committed_
prospective Wiccan novices.
The comments contained herein are my opinions. This message
was not solicited by Amazon.com, any author, any artist, or their
agent(s), publisher(s), producer(s) or distributor(s).
$600K for a starter house in LA?
I got no problems
20:00:15 8:00:15
Hieronymous707
>I have further researched the origin of the Irish (white) potato.
That's probably just a coincidence.
>I consider the origin of the Irish (white) potato a Wiccan
>_non-issue_ for the reasons I provide below.
Eye, aye ...
I mean -I- considered the origin of the Irish potato a _personal issue_
for the reasons -I- provide below ... so there.
Potatoes have eyes, you know.
Of course, the walls have ears, but that's beside the point.
>suggested Internet website references discussing the origin of
>the Irish (white) potato:
This is what -I- came up with as a result of -my- research.
I mean, my ... hieronymous homework:
Of course, I suppose there's always the chance that it went down something like
this.
http://winnie.acsu.buffalo.edu/potatoe/saved/creation.gif
Remember this?
That was him.
Remember this?
That was me.
...
I mean, him.
I mean, that was me referring to him when I wrote it for you.
As you can see, I don't spell my name quite the same way.
>The comments contained herein are my opinions.
Mine too. I'm just not quite as long winded as you,
...
or him.
-hi-
Richard Ballard
rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard) writes:
>I have further researched the origin of the Irish (white) potato.
>I consider the origin of the Irish (white) potato a Wiccan
>_non-issue_ for the reasons I provide below. I hope that this
>revision ends the Wiccan Irish potato issue.
>
>"You may fire when ready, Gridley."
>
>In article <20030724161046...@mb-m03.aol.com>,
>rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard) writes:
>
>>I received a large number of substantive comments on this
>>document. Rather than waiting until 21 days before the
>>Mabon sabbat to issue a version containing the revisions, I
>>am reissueing the Lammas version in its entirety. _New_
>>additions and revisions are marked with a <*> marker.
>>
>> *****Beginning of document*****
>>Copyright 2003 by Richard J. Ballard -- All Rights Reserved.
>>Issued approximately twenty-one days before each sabbat.
>>Each issue's new and significantly changed paragraphs begin
>>with a <*> marker.
<snip>
>the fertile Goddess. ...
The "History Magazine article URL referenced above is
particularly relevant. It details how Western Civilization
was undernourished throughout much of its early history,
and how infant mortality rates decreased and population
swelled wherever the potato was introduced into Western
diets -- very relevant to the fertile Goddess. [Remember
that the next time you fill your gasoline (petrol) tank
with gasoline costing significantly more than one dollar
per gallon.]
> ... And Irish (white) potatoes in Europe predate
>both Gardnerian Wicca and Ms. McCoy's Irish Witta Tradition.
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
I have read your message carefully.
Never lose your sense of humor.
If you lose your sense of humor you will have nothing.
BTW, do you watch Al Bundy on "Married With Children"?
You always could get a job as a shoe salesman.
Hieronymous707
>I have read your message carefully.
Thanks. That's very kind of you, Richard.
>Never lose your sense of humor.
>If you lose your sense of humor you will have nothing.
I'd rather die first ...
Of course, if that happened, I'd probably really need
my sense of humor then.
>BTW, do you watch Al Bundy on "Married With Children"?
I'm familiar with the character of course, although I don't recall ever having
watched an episode all the way through. I don't remember what shows came on at
the same time, but I must've been watching one of them, or maybe doing
something else. You see, I am married with children.
>You always could get a job as a shoe salesman.
I don't really know what you mean by that, but I gather it to be, which is to
say it "feels" like, a good natured jab in the ribs like Hy gave me the other
day. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
In any event, much obliged for your comment.
-hi-
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>
>>I have read your message carefully.
>
>Thanks. That's very kind of you, Richard.
>
>>Never lose your sense of humor.
>>If you lose your sense of humor you will have nothing.
>
>I'd rather die first ...
>
>Of course, if that happened, I'd probably really need
>my sense of humor then.
>
>>BTW, do you watch Al Bundy on "Married With Children"?
>
>I'm familiar with the character of course, although I don't recall ...
Sounds like you are taking the Fifth Amendment.
>ever having watched an episode all the way through. I don't
>remember what shows came on at the same time, but I
>must've been watching one of them, or maybe doing
>something else. ...
Good thing you are not a criminal -- you would have no alibi.
> ... You see, I am married with children.
Pay attention when you are in the street --
I would not want you to have an accident.
>>You always could get a job as a shoe salesman.
>
>I don't really know what you mean by that, but I gather it to be,
>which is to say it "feels" like, a good natured jab in the ribs
>like Hy gave me the other day. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
My good nature is temporarily out of service -- I am troubled.
Last Sunday while jogging through the park I encountered a
young woman with bright red complexion and freshly shaved
head walking towards a religious fest. She looked at me
wildly but said nothing. I did not know if she needed help
or was experiencing epiphany, so I did not stop jogging. I
wonder if responded correctly.
I worried more that evening -- I realized that the young
woman *closely* resembled somebody I know, but with
the red complexion and the shaved head the resemblence
did not register until hours later. Too late to respond ...
>In any event, much obliged for your comment.
Any time, but I can't talk now -- I am busy keeping a roof
over my head and food in my stomach.
Hieronymous707
>Sounds like you are taking the Fifth Amendment.
Not specifically, although I do maintain the right to remain silent about ...
well, certain things.
>Good thing you are not a criminal -- you would have no alibi.
Oh, I'm a criminal alright.
I'm evil incarnate ... now darn it, don't laugh!
I'm still a big tough guy, though sometimes I chaff.
>Pay attention when you are in the street --
>I would not want you to have an accident.
I would not want me to have an accident either, especially when I am in the
street. I will pay attention when I am in the street. Thank you again,
Richard. You are a font of street wisdom.
>My good nature is temporarily out of service -- I am troubled.
>Last Sunday while jogging through the park I encountered a
>young woman with bright red complexion and freshly shaved
>head walking towards a religious fest. She looked at me
>wildly but said nothing. I did not know if she needed help
>or was experiencing epiphany, so I did not stop jogging. I
>wonder if responded correctly.
>I worried more that evening -- I realized that the young
>woman *closely* resembled somebody I know, but with
>the red complexion and the shaved head the resemblence
>did not register until hours later. Too late to respond ...
It's never too late to respond.
It is certainly too late to advise her not to shave her fool head.
>Any time, but I can't talk now -- I am busy keeping a roof
>over my head and food in my stomach.
I've got the weekend off; start a new job tomorrow.
-hi-
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
Some responses (like returning to the religious fest) are not
appropriate. But with compatible personalities, compatible
goals and good faith ...
Hieronymous707
>Some responses (like returning to the religious fest) are not
>appropriate.
Wait, do you mean like if you were responding to her in regard to returning to
the religious fest, that would not have been appropriate, or that your
returning to the religious fest in order to respond to her would not be
appropriate?
> But with compatible personalities, compatible
>goals and good faith ...
Now you sound ... well, kinda religious.
Not that that's a bad thing.
It's basically just a sound.
-hi-
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>
>>Some responses (like returning to the religious fest)
>>are not appropriate.
>
>Wait, do you mean like if you were responding to her in
>regard to returning to the religious fest, that would
>not have been appropriate, or that your returning to the
>religious fest in order to respond to her would not be
>appropriate?
Public confrontations are not appropriate when a person
(who you did not recognize immediately and whose identity
still is uncertain) did *not* request assistance.
hieronymous707
> Public confrontations are not appropriate when a person
> (who you did not recognize immediately and whose identity
> still is uncertain) did *not* request assistance.
Public confrontations of the sort you describe are actually
part and parcel of a foreman's responsibilities, and are not
only appropriate, but essential. Of course, that doesn't mean
that the foreman ever actually has to get really confrontational.
In fact, I'd probably say that I'm generally a very big
proponent of the 'show and tell' philosophy of foremaning,
which doesn't really require that you confront too much, but which
can actually give you quite a workout.
-hi-
Richard Ballard
hierony...@my-deja.com (hieronymous707) writes:
Bubba, you are starting to sound the the guards in the
film "Cool Hand Luke".
Two Sundays ago while jogging in the park I encountered
a young woman with freshly shaved head, wild eyes and
bright red complexion -- she looked like she was hysterical.
She was walking towards a religious fest. I glanced at her
as I jogged past -- she looked wildly at me but said nothing
and specifically did *not* request assistance. I did not
know if she was experiencing epiphany or was in trouble,
but she did *not* speak or request my assistance. I kept
jogging after one quick glance. ***A man hesitates to
approach a single woman in the park.***
Hours later I realized that without the red complexion and
with a full head of hair I probably would have recognized the
young woman -- I thought I knew her but had not recognized
her earlier. This troubled me -- why was the young woman
silent? I wished that I had given the young woman more than
one quick glance but it was too late. I had *no justification*
to return to the park and search for the young woman at the
religious fest -- somebody might consider me a stalker. My
sleep that night was troubled.
This event has no relationship to being a foreman or a
manager, Bubba. Unfortunately, 21st Century society
and sexual politics has evolved such that gentlemanly
concern can get a man into trouble, and might prevent
woman from receiving needed assistance. (Another example:
What does a woman fear more -- being stranded at night on
any lonely road (including Interstate Highways) with a
broken vehicle, or the passerby who stops to ask if she
requires assistance? There are animals in the night woods,
Bubba.) Had the young woman spoken to me I would have stopped,
but she was silent. I had no justification to stop, and my
sleep that night was troubled -- I kept visualizing her face.
Ironywaves
stuff, then? What's your motive?
Dockery
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ironywaves
"Richard Ballard" <rball...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030812104401...@mb-m07.aol.com...
Hieronymous707
>Bubba, you are starting to sound the the guards in the
>film "Cool Hand Luke".
If you think I sound like a Bubba, then maybe you do need
to be guarded about the movies you watch.
Of course, I'm not telling you what to watch.
That's entirely up to you, based on what's available in your area.
>This event has no relationship to being a foreman or a
>manager, Bubba.
That's exactly what I've been saying.
I have no relationship to being a Bubba, Richard.
>Unfortunately, 21st Century society
>and sexual politics has evolved such that gentlemanly
>concern can get a man into trouble, and might prevent
>woman from receiving needed assistance.
Funny, 21st Century Expositions is one of the companies I work for.
>(Another example:
>What does a woman fear more -- being stranded at night on
>any lonely road (including Interstate Highways) with a
>broken vehicle, or the passerby who stops to ask if she
>requires assistance?
You'd have to ask a woman to find out the answer to that one.
I mean, that's what I did.
> There are animals in the night woods, Bubba.)
I've got an animal right here at my feet right now, in fact. Of course, I'm
presently sitting in front of my PC at roughly 11:35am where I am, and not out
in the night woods, but I will certainly allow your contention that there are,
apparently, "Bubba"s somewhere out there beyond your fervid imagination.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you.
It's just not me. I'm not really Bubba.
>Had the young woman spoken to me I would have stopped,
>but she was silent.
That's right, blame it all on the young woman.
It's her fault you didn't say anything, right?
>I had no justification to stop, and my
>sleep that night was troubled -- I kept visualizing her face.
I'm not telling you what you could or could've, should or should've said, but
this is how I probably would have handled such a situation.
I mean, this is basically what I do when such occasions as you've described
occur, which they do, on occasion.
"Hey, what's up?" "Don't I know you?" "What the heck did you do to your
hair?" "Does your mother know about that?" "<Laugh Out Loud>"
Anyway, here's a link to a real scary picture.
Don't look at it if scary pictures really scare you.
It's really scary, but if you do look at it, I promise you won't
find the visualization of her face so troubling any more.
Don't ask me why. It's funny how it works.
-hi-
Aunty Kreist
>Parts)
>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>Date: 8/12/2003 10:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030812104401...@mb-m07.aol.com>
Uh Oh. Richard's lost it again. Jani, did you break him?
Love, Aunty xxx
cry "Open Sesame!"
the curtains draw apart:
beyond them fair and free
the realms of magick art.
ba...@dmcom.net
>
>
> Uh Oh. Richard's lost it again. Jani, did you break him?
>
Er, he got involved with Tom again over at alt.magick
However not sure if he even found it, *sighes* I have been using
Formosa's Law in his case.
--
Jani
"Aunty Kreist" <aunty...@aol.comeondown> wrote in message
news:20030812130219...@mb-m21.aol.com...
Wasn't me, hon. The few minutes I've been able to spend here in the last
couple of days, I was on another thread. He doesn't sound right, even for
Richard, though, does he?
Jani
Phoenix
>
> "Aunty Kreist" <aunty...@aol.comeondown> wrote in message
> news:20030812130219...@mb-m21.aol.com...
> > Uh Oh. Richard's lost it again. Jani, did you break him?
> >
> >
> > Love, Aunty xxx
>
> Wasn't me, hon. The few minutes I've been able to spend here in the
last
> couple of days, I was on another thread. He doesn't sound right,
even for
> Richard, though, does he?
>
> Jani
Does this mean we're going to be ankle deep in Mongoose crap again?
:-)
P
Richard Ballard
"Ironywaves" <irony...@knology.net> writes:
>I thought I read you were a Christian, Richard?
>Why do you post all this stuff, then? What's
>your motive?
>Dockery
This discussion is not related to Christianity.
I was describing an event which happened to me
while jogging in the city park. I responded to
a comment about confrontations. IMO confrontations
are not related to management. In addition, frankly
I wondered if I had failed to assist "a damsel
in distress", an issue impossible to resolve.
<URL snipped by RB -- URL gone>
One additional comment: Above you state "I thought I
read you were a Christian, Richard?" Everytime that
somebody on Pagan-related Internet newsgroups makes a
"I thought you were a Christian" related comment, I
wonder why they are attempting to hold me to a higher
standard of morality than they themselves apparently
follow. This has happened to me repeatedly.
Phoenix
> In article <vji05rh...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Everytime that
> somebody on Pagan-related Internet newsgroups makes a
> "I thought you were a Christian" related comment, I
> wonder why they are attempting to hold me to a higher
> standard of morality than they themselves apparently
> follow. This has happened to me repeatedly.
It's just a thought, Richard, but it may be that Christians have told
us they have higher standards of morality then we do, so many times,
that we're starting to believe them.. :-)
P
Maxie P. Diddly
> In addition, frankly
> I wondered if I had failed to assist "a damsel
> in distress", an issue impossible to resolve.
Richard, in my experience, human beings have a specialized intuition
for knowing when others are in distress based on body/facial cues. I
think that people like you and I will naturally offer our help and
assistance to those in need. Corrupt persons will do the oppposite,
and they will actually prey on these types of people, always on the
lookout for the signs you describe. There is another explanations for
what you observed, Richard. Some people will intentionally try to
attract attention by pretending to be in need of help. These people
are usually just panhandling for change. I know when someobody is in
distress, and I usually offer my help. Sometimes though, that person
is "faking" distress to bum some change.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.509 / Virus Database: 306 - Release Date: 8/12/2003
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>
>>Unfortunately, 21st Century society
>>and sexual politics has evolved such that gentlemanly
>>concern can get a man into trouble, and might prevent
>>woman from receiving needed assistance.
>
>Funny, 21st Century Expositions is one of the companies I work for.
"Funny 21st Century Expositions"? Are you a flasher, Bubba?
>>(Another example:
>>What does a woman fear more -- being stranded at night on
>>any lonely road (including Interstate Highways) with a
>>broken vehicle, or the passerby who stops to ask if she
>>requires assistance?
>
>You'd have to ask a woman to find out the answer to that one.
>
>I mean, that's what I did.
You mean, Bubba?
>>There are animals in the night woods, Bubba.)
>
>I've got an animal right here at my feet right now, in fact.
>Of course, I'm presently sitting in front of my PC at roughly
>11:35am where I am, and not out in the night woods, but I will
>certainly allow your contention that there are, apparently,
>"Bubba"s somewhere out there beyond your fervid imagination.
>
>Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out
>to get you.
>
>It's just not me. I'm not really Bubba.
Bubba, I have spent my nights in the woods. I know when
to stay near the campfire and when to wander.
>>Had the young woman spoken to me I would have stopped,
>>but she was silent.
>
>That's right, blame it all on the young woman.
>It's her fault you didn't say anything, right?
>
>>I had no justification to stop, and my
>>sleep that night was troubled -- I kept visualizing her face.
>
>I'm not telling you what you could or could've, should or
>should've said, but this is how I probably would have handled
>such a situation.
>
>I mean, this is basically what I do when such occasions as
>you've described occur, which they do, on occasion.
Bubba, the only people I know who talk to every young
woman they encounter are department store Santa Clauses
and Leisure Suit Larry (master of the cheap polyester suit).
I am but a humble jogger, Bubba. Usually when jogging I
mind my own business unless somebody interrupts my
reverie.
Ironywaves
> In article <vji05rh...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Ironywaves" <irony...@knology.net> writes:
>
> >I thought I read you were a Christian, Richard?
> >Why do you post all this stuff, then? What's
> >your motive?
> >Dockery
>
> This discussion is not related to Christianity.
> I was describing an event which happened to me
> while jogging in the city park. I responded to
> a comment about confrontations. IMO confrontations
> I wondered if I had failed to assist "a damsel
> in distress", an issue impossible to resolve.
<URL snipped by RB -- URL gone>
http://willdockery0.tripod.com/
> One additional comment: Above you state "I thought I
> read you were a Christian, Richard?" Everytime that
> somebody on Pagan-related Internet newsgroups makes a
> "I thought you were a Christian" related comment, I
> wonder why they are attempting to hold me to a higher
> standard of morality than they themselves apparently
> follow. This has happened to me repeatedly.
Could be, Richard.
Will
> >"Richard Ballard" <rball...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>manager, Bubba. Unfortunately, 21st Century society
> >>and sexual politics has evolved such that gentlemanly
> >>concern can get a man into trouble, and might prevent
> >>woman from receiving needed assistance. (Another example:
> >>What does a woman fear more -- being stranded at night on
> >>any lonely road (including Interstate Highways) with a
> >>broken vehicle, or the passerby who stops to ask if she
> >>requires assistance? There are animals in the night woods,
> >>Bubba.) Had the young woman spoken to me I would have stopped,
> >>but she was silent. I had no justification to stop, and my
> >>sleep that night was troubled -- I kept visualizing her face.
>
Richard Ballard
"Ironywaves" <irony...@knology.net> writes:
>"Richard Ballard" <rball...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20030812163250...@mb-m18.aol.com...
>
>>In article <vji05rh...@corp.supernews.com>,
>>"Ironywaves" <irony...@knology.net> writes:
>>
>>>I thought I read you were a Christian, Richard?
>>>Why do you post all this stuff, then? What's
>>>your motive?
>>>Dockery
>>
>>This discussion is not related to Christianity.
>>I was describing an event which happened to me
>>while jogging in the city park. I responded to
>>a comment about confrontations. IMO confrontations
>>are not related to management. In addition, frankly
>>I wondered if I had failed to assist "a damsel
>>in distress", an issue impossible to resolve.
<URL snipped by RB -- URL gone>
>>One additional comment: Above you state "I thought I
>>read you were a Christian, Richard?" Everytime that
>>somebody on Pagan-related Internet newsgroups makes a
>>"I thought you were a Christian" related comment, I
>>wonder why they are attempting to hold me to a higher
>>standard of morality than they themselves apparently
>>follow. This has happened to me repeatedly.
>
>Could be, Richard.
>Will
Won't.
More below.
There is short term thinking, there is long term thinking,
and there is a time and a place for both.
Aunty Kreist
>Parts)
>Date: 8/12/2003 2:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3F3937...@dmcom.net>
>
>Aunty Kreist wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Uh Oh. Richard's lost it again. Jani, did you break him?
>>
>
>Er, he got involved with Tom again over at alt.magick
>
>However not sure if he even found it, *sighes* I have been using
>Formosa's Law in his case.
>
Heh.
“The truly insane have enough on their plates without us adding to it.”
Aunty Kreist
>Parts)
>Date: 8/12/2003 3:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <txb_a.4564$vZ2.36...@news-text.cableinet.net>
No, he doesn't. Expecially now that he's mixing up names again. Reminds me of
when he kept insisting T9W was some guy named Tommy.
Hieronymous707
>You mean, Bubba?
Oh, you must mean Bubby. He's my son's friend.
...
If you haven't noticed yet, I am struggling to give you the benefit of every
doubt, Richard, particularly with respect to your insistence on showing me your
ass. It's a nice ass to be sure, but it is not my ass of preference,
thankyouverymuch. Now please put it away.
>Bubba, I have spent my nights in the woods. I know when
>to stay near the campfire and when to wander.
Coincidentally, that's just what we're doing this weekend with a whole bunch
of family, coworkers, and friends. We're taking Bubby's brother, Dustin, with
us.
http://www.shenandoah-river.com/
>Bubba, the only people I know who talk to every young
>woman they encounter are department store Santa Clauses
>and Leisure Suit Larry (master of the cheap polyester suit).
Okay, so your experience is limited. No problem; that much was
obvious from the beginning. It's certainly nothing to be ashamed of.
>I am but a humble jogger, Bubba.
Maybe, I'm not going to be the one to say you're not, but you should be made
aware that the humility you claim for yourself is not particularly evident in
your writing, particularly that about jogging.
>Usually when jogging I mind my own business unless somebody >interrupts my
reverie.
I suppose you think that's the humble thing to do.
Figures.
-hi-
Jani
"Aunty Kreist" <aunty...@aol.comeondown> wrote in message
> >From: "Jani" ja...@blueyonder.co.uk
> >Wasn't me, hon. The few minutes I've been able to spend here in the last
> >couple of days, I was on another thread. He doesn't sound right, even for
> >Richard, though, does he?
> >
> >Jani
> No, he doesn't. Expecially now that he's mixing up names again. Reminds me
of
> when he kept insisting T9W was some guy named Tommy.
Bard said he'd been tangling over in alt.magick. "Little brother, have you
been playing with the goetia?" ... heheh
Jani
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>
>>You mean, Bubba?
>
>Oh, you must mean Bubby. He's my son's friend.
I asked if you were mean, Bubba. In hard economic times
some people get mean.
>If you haven't noticed yet, I am struggling to give you the
>benefit of every doubt, Richard, particularly with respect to
>your insistence on showing me your ass. ...
Huh? No ASCII art in my messages, Bubba.
> ... It's a nice ass to be sure, but it is not my ass of
>preference, thankyouverymuch. Now please put it away.
I have given you no reason to struggle, Bubba -- you could
easily ignore me. If you are struggling then you are struggling
with yourself.
I'm not saying that you are Sir Lancelot, Bubba, but if you
remember the story of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round
Table, the only time Sir Lancelot ever was bested was when he
struggled with himself.
Stop struggling, Bubba. Relax and enjoy the party.
>>Bubba, I have spent my nights in the woods. I know when
>>to stay near the campfire and when to wander.
>
>Coincidentally, that's just what we're doing this weekend with
>a whole bunch of family, coworkers, and friends. We're taking
>Bubby's brother, Dustin, with us.
I am staying home and working, Bubba. I'm a poor man.
I gotta work to keep the roof over my head and food in
my stomach. I must study to improve my work skills.
Yesterday I made a big pot of chili and a big pot of rice
for Chili Macs (chili over rice). No cooking for the
next few days -- easier to study.
>>Bubba, the only people I know who talk to every young
>>woman they encounter are department store Santa Clauses
>>and Leisure Suit Larry (master of the cheap polyester suit).
>
>Okay, so your experience is limited. No problem; that much
>was obvious from the beginning. It's certainly nothing to
>be ashamed of.
Bubba, experience has taught me that I do not want to talk
to every young woman that I encounter.
>>I am but a humble jogger, Bubba.
>
>Maybe, I'm not going to be the one to say you're not, but
>you should be made aware that the humility you claim for
>yourself is not particularly evident in your writing,
>particularly that about jogging.
I am proud of my jogging, Bubba. Jogging costs me little -- a
pair of jogging shoes costs eighty dollars and lasts a whole year.
Jogging builds me up. You find yourself jogging several miles
from home and your feet are turning numb in the 2 degree F cold
you get a new perspective. You find yourself jogging in the
100 degree F heat and it feels like your radiator is about to pop
but you decide to continue, it gives you a new perspective. And
when the jog is over the muscles remain, Bubba. 212 pounds
and skinny.
>>Usually when jogging I mind my own business unless somebody
>>interrupts my reverie.
>
>I suppose you think that's the humble thing to do.
>
>Figures.
Bubba, I know when others want me to speak and
when others want me to continue jogging.
Hieronymous707
>I asked if you were mean, Bubba. In hard economic times
>some people get mean.
Oh, okay. In that case, yes. I am very, very mean.
Nasty even.
>Huh? No ASCII art in my messages, Bubba.
I didn't say ASCII; I said ass. I can still see it, because you're still
showing it. Again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't know
your ass was out, or wasn't aware that people perceived you as being a dull
ass, and am just trying to make you aware of the situation, Richard. Leave it
out, tuck it in, either way really makes me
no nevermind. I just know that you are capable of better than to, for example,
continually refer to someone with whom you are engaged in discussion by a name
you know is not theirs, and further know they prefer not to be called.
>I have given you no reason to struggle, Bubba -- you could
>easily ignore me. If you are struggling then you are struggling
>with yourself.
Of course I'm struggling with myself. I'm struggling with my perception of you
as a total ass. I know logically that you cannot be a total ass, because
nobody is a total ass, but all you ever seem to give anybody to look at is your
full moon. I don't generally ignore people who are talking to me, just on
principle, even when they act like a total ass.
>I'm not saying that you are Sir Lancelot, Bubba, but if you
>remember the story of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round
>Table, the only time Sir Lancelot ever was bested was when he
>struggled with himself.
Okay, so you're not saying I'm Sir Lancelot, but you are saying I'm Bubba.
Please explain why you would say I am one and not say I am the other.
>Stop struggling, Bubba. Relax and enjoy the party.
Excuse me? In the context of our conversation, and in relationship with what
you've said previously, that sounds kind of like you just told me to drop dead.
>I am staying home and working, Bubba. I'm a poor man.
>I gotta work to keep the roof over my head and food in
>my stomach. I must study to improve my work skills.
>Yesterday I made a big pot of chili and a big pot of rice
>for Chili Macs (chili over rice). No cooking for the
>next few days -- easier to study.
Okay, study well.
>Bubba, experience has taught me that I do not want to talk
>to every young woman that I encounter.
That's fine. Talk, don't talk, whatever.
>I am proud of my jogging, Bubba.
Of course, that's obvious, but it's not the same as being a humble jogger.
>Bubba, I know when others want me to speak and
>when others want me to continue jogging.
Do you know when others want you to pull your trousers back up?
-hi-
THE Cast Iron Bitch
poetry as well as pagan topics, so what's the difference?
"Ironywaves" <irony...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:vji05rh...@corp.supernews.com...
THE Cast Iron Bitch
"Hieronymous707" <hierony...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030813085624...@mb-m19.aol.com...
Hieronymous707
>Well, you delude yourself that you have significant contributions to
>make to poetry as well as pagan topics, so what's the difference?
I can't speak for this Dockery fellow, of course, but I can tell you the
difference between your perception of him and my perception of myself, if
that'll help. There are obvious and distinct similarities, as well as not so
subtle differences.
For example, I delude myself that I have significant contributions to make
through poetry, and that such contribution is equally pertinent to Christian
and pagan topics alike. This delusion provides my "motive", as Will put it --
the opportunity to prove myself, to put up or shut up.
Of course, after much trial and error, the only indications apparent thus far
that I am indeed getting any closer to realizing that delusion as fact are
entirely self-serving and purely anecdotal. Thus, my quandary -- what the fuck
do I do now!?!
...
Wanna hear a poem?
No, wait. That won't work, will it?
I mean, I've tried that.
You've read some of my stuff before, haven't you?
It's like beating yourself in the head with a hammer.
It gets boring after a while.
-hi-
Hieronymous707
>Bra - vo! *Nice*!
No!
Hold the applause.
I'm mean!
...
Really ...
no kidding ...
nasty even ...
like a booger on toast.
-hi-
Phoenix
P
"THE Cast Iron Bitch" <rhy...@pishoff.com> wrote in message
news:vjkdut3...@corp.supernews.com...
Richard Ballard
"THE Cast Iron Bitch" <rhy...@pishoff.com> writes:
>Well, you delude yourself that you have significant contributions
>to make to poetry as well as pagan topics, so what's the difference?
You must mean
"Never Smile At A Crocodile"
"Never smile at a crocodile,
Oh you can't get friendly with a crocodile,
Don't be taken in
by his welcome grin,
He's imagining how well you'd fit
within his chin.
Never smile at a crocodile.
Simply tip your hat
and decline to stay awhile.
Never run -- walk away,
Say good night -- not good day.
Clear the aisle and never smile
at Mr. Crocodile.
OHHH you might very well
be well bred,
Lots of etiquette in your head,
But there's always
one special case,
time or place,
to forget,
et-i-quette.
For instance ...
Never smile at a crocodile,
Oh you can't get friendly with a crocodile,
Don't be taken in
by his welcome grin,
He's imagining how well you'd fit
within his chin.
Never smile at a crocodile.
Simply tip your hat
and decline to stay awhile.
Never run -- walk away,
Say good night -- not good day.
Clear the aisle and never smile
at Mr. Crocodile."
>"Ironywaves" <irony...@knology.net> wrote in message
>news:vji05rh...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>I thought I read you were a Christian, Richard? Why do
>>you post all this stuff, then? What's your motive?
>>Dockery
This discussion is not related to Christianity.
I was describing an event which happened to me
while jogging in the city park. I responded to
a comment about confrontations. IMO confrontations
are not related to management. In addition, frankly
I wondered if I had failed to assist "a damsel
in distress", an issue impossible to resolve.
<RB snipped URL -- URL gone>
One additional comment: Above you state "I thought I
read you were a Christian, Richard?" Everytime that
somebody on Pagan-related Internet newsgroups makes a
"I thought you were a Christian" related comment, I
wonder why they are attempting to hold me to a higher
standard of morality than they themselves apparently
follow. This has happened to me repeatedly.
>>"Richard Ballard" <rball...@aol.com> wrote in message
There is short term thinking,
there is long term thinking, and
there is a time and a place for both.
$600K for a starter house in LA?
I got no problems
20:00:15 8:00:15
1 02 03 06 09 21
Hieronymous707
>You must mean
>"Never Smile At A Crocodile"
Batrachopho ... I mean, herpetopho ... I mean, ...
Oh heck, you're just a little fraidy pants, ain't you?
-hi-
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>
>>I asked if you were mean, Bubba. In hard economic times
>>some people get mean.
>
>Oh, okay. In that case, yes. I am very, very mean.
>
>Nasty even.
You get to vote, Bubba, and you get to live with the
election results.
>>Huh? No ASCII art in my messages, Bubba.
>
>I didn't say ASCII; I said ass. I can still see it, because
>you're still showing it. Again, I'll give you the benefit of
>the doubt that you didn't know your ass was out, or wasn't aware
>that people perceived you as being a dull ass, and am just
>trying to make you aware of the situation, Richard. Leave it out,
>tuck it in, either way really makes me no nevermind.
Bubba, I am going to be charitable. When you call me as ass
I am going to assume that you are refering my generosity and
to the two related maxims:
"When your burdens seem too heavy to bear,
be thankful for the things you need not carry."
"Don't be a nice ass -- other people will attempt
to shift all their burdens onto you."
>>I have given you no reason to struggle, Bubba -- you could
>>easily ignore me. If you are struggling then you are struggling
>>with yourself.
>
>Of course I'm struggling with myself. I'm struggling with my
>perception of you as a total ass. I know logically that you
>cannot be a total ass, because nobody is a total ass, but all
>you ever seem to give anybody to look at is your full moon.
>I don't generally ignore people who are talking to me, just
>on principle, even when they act like a total ass.
Your statements remind of Larry Niven's novel "World Of Ptavvs",
Bubba. Ignore me, Bubba and your dia logue stops. No problem.
>>I'm not saying that you are Sir Lancelot, Bubba, but if you
>>remember the story of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round
>>Table, the only time Sir Lancelot ever was bested was when he
>>struggled with himself.
>
>Okay, so you're not saying I'm Sir Lancelot, but you are saying
>I'm Bubba. Please explain why you would say I am one and not
>say I am the other.
Everybody is not as privileged as you. Everybody does not
get to lead "The Life of Bubba". (Clearly you do not lead the
life of Sir Lancelot, Bubba.) I remember you sitting on the
back porch drinking a Billy Beer and saying "I wonder what the
poor folks are doing?". You knew what the poor folks were doing,
Bubba -- I was drinking your Billy Beer.
>>Stop struggling, Bubba. Relax and enjoy the party.
>
>Excuse me? In the context of our conversation, and in
>relationship with what you've said previously, that sounds kind
>of like you just told me to drop dead.
Stop struggling and enjoy your camping party this weekend, Bubba.
Ignore me and your dia logue stops.
>>I am staying home and working, Bubba. I'm a poor man.
>>I gotta work to keep the roof over my head and food in
>>my stomach. I must study to improve my work skills.
>>Yesterday I made a big pot of chili and a big pot of rice
>>for Chili Macs (chili over rice). No cooking for the
>>next few days -- easier to study.
>
>Okay, study well.
I do.
>>Bubba, experience has taught me that I do not want to talk
>>to every young woman that I encounter.
>
>That's fine. Talk, don't talk, whatever.
I do.
>>I am proud of my jogging, Bubba.
>
>Of course, that's obvious, but it's not the same as being a
>humble jogger.
The pride is on the inside, Bubba. And I *am* a humble jogger.
A proud jogger drives to the track in a flashy car -- I jog.
>>Bubba, I know when others want me to speak and
>>when others want me to continue jogging.
>
>Do you know when others want you to pull your trousers back up?
Bubba, it is better to know when not to expose yourself
in the first place.
Hieronymous707
>You get to vote, Bubba, and you get to live with the
>election results.
The votes have been cast, Richard. The result are in.
Reread the thread, if necessary.
>Bubba, I am going to be charitable. When you call me as ass
>I am going to assume that you are refering my generosity and
>to the two related maxims:
First of all, I mean at least as far as charity goes, I didn't call you "as
ass". I didn't even call you an ass. All I said was that from my point of
view you were, and have been, showing your ass. I can with a relative degree
of certainty, even without knowing you, that you must have an ass.
If you do not, then indeed my sympathies are with you, and be advised that your
tenor and tone indicates the necessity for checking, if not actually changing
your colostomy bag.
>"When your burdens seem too heavy to bear,
>be thankful for the things you need not carry."
To me, that indicates that you don't carry a bag;
therefore you must have an ass.
>"Don't be a nice ass -- other people will attempt
>to shift all their burdens onto you."
That sounds kind of like what I said,
only I never said you were an, or as an, ass.
I simply said you were showing it.
You still are, in fact.
>Your statements remind of Larry Niven's novel "World Of Ptavvs",
>Bubba.
I, apparently, remind a lot of people of a lot of people.
Far be it from me to name drop.
>Ignore me, Bubba and your dia logue stops. No problem.
-I- don't have a "dia logue", Richard, whatever that means.
And you can mean whatever you want to by it;
I don't have a problem with that.
But as much as you may want to think differently,
I'm not talking to myself here, you know.
It takes at least two to dialogue, if that's the term you were trying to use.
Therefore, there is no way that I can have a dialogue by myself with you.
>Everybody is not as privileged as you. Everybody does not
>get to lead "The Life of Bubba". (Clearly you do not lead the
>life of Sir Lancelot, Bubba.) I remember you sitting on the
>back porch drinking a Billy Beer and saying "I wonder what the
>poor folks are doing?". You knew what the poor folks were doing,
>Bubba -- I was drinking your Billy Beer.
You're confused. First of all, everybody -is- as privileged as me.
...
Don't worry about it. It's a common mistake.
>Stop struggling and enjoy your camping party this weekend, Bubba.
Look, please stop telling me what to do. You're not the boss of me.
I simply can't enjoy anything without struggling at it. It's just the way I
am; the way I see things. If you've got a problem with that, take it to the
shop steward.
>Ignore me and your dia logue stops.
Fine, if you don't want to talk, I'm sure there's somebody else out there.
...
Everybody talks out their ass from time to time.
Some people control it better than others.
>I do.
Yeah, right.
>I do.
Like I said, ...
>The pride is on the inside, Bubba. And I *am* a humble jogger.
>A proud jogger drives to the track in a flashy car -- I jog.
Excuse me, but that's not the difference between a proud and a humble jogger.
...
Don't worry about it. It's a common mistake.
>Bubba, it is better to know when not to expose yourself
>in the first place.
If you only knew how much you expose of yourself without, apparently, even
knowing you're doing it ...
...
I know, that's not a complete sentence.
Don't worry about it.
>There is short term thinking,
>there is long term thinking, and
>there is a time and a place for both.
Exactly.
The -only- place for either, ever, is here, now.
-hi-
THE Cast Iron Bitch
"Hieronymous707" <hierony...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030813103601...@mb-m19.aol.com...
Hieronymous707
"like a booger on toast."
>That's why I liked it.
No, it's not.
...
I mean ... know it's snot.
-hi-
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
>>From: "THE Cast Iron Bitch" rhy...@pishoff.com
>
>>Well, you delude yourself that you have significant contributions
>>to make to poetry as well as pagan topics, so what's the
>>difference?
>
>I can't speak for this Dockery fellow, of course, but I can tell
>you the difference between your perception of him and my perception
>of myself, if that'll help. There are obvious and distinct
>similarities, as well as not so subtle differences.
Here we go again -- Bubba peers into the fun house mirror.
>For example, I delude myself that I have significant contributions
>to make through poetry, and that such contribution is equally
>pertinent to Christian and pagan topics alike. This delusion
>provides my "motive", as Will put it -- the opportunity to prove
>myself, to put up or shut up.
Bubba, sarcasm is the second lowest form of wit. (The pun
is the lowest form of wit.) Your sarcastic poetry lacks
panache, Bubba -- no subtlety whatsoever. And each person
proves him/herself each and every day, Bubba -- no vacations.
Bubba, if you want your poetry to be relevant both to Christianity
and Paganism, you should write about love. Doubt me Bubba?
Con sider the following situation. A lyricist wants to purchase
a dia mond engagement ring for his honey, but the lyricist is a
poor fellow (like me, Bubba) and the lyricist has no money for
jewels. The lyricist does not know how he will (a-hem) purr chase
a dia mond engagement ring, and if he can (a-hem) purr chase a
dia mond engagement ring his honey will not be impressed with the
dia mond. What is the poor lyricist to do? That poor lyricist
must rack his brains and write some lyrics!
Now suppose the lyricist is in the (a-hem) car tune business,
Bubba. He knows that (a-hem) Warnher Brother always
needs (a-hem) Bugs Bunny lyrics -- Warnher Brother will buy
every thing that the lyricist (a-hem) rights. The lyricist
puts aside his worries about jewels and rings, and the lyricist
(a-hem) rights the following:
"Oh a (a-hem) caret is a yum yum ve-ge-table;
I always eat as many as I'm able;
To snitch from any stand
by some fancy sleight-of-hand;
or to (a-hem) purr chase from the grocer
if I'm able.
When I chew them they go crunchy crunchy crunch;
As a ve-ge-table they're so good to munch;
Oh I'd rather have a (a-hem) caret
than a zebra or a parrot;
(a-hem) caws a (a-hem) caret is
me very favorite lunch."
You might not enjoy that lyric, Bubba, but it is plain that
the poor lyricist has not forgotten his honey or his poverty.
And writing lyrics is better than shoplifting the dia mond
engagement ring, getting caught, and going to jail.
'Hope those nice folks at (a-hem) Warnher Brother send
the lyricist a big check!
BTW Bubba, sorry for all the throat clearing. Sensitive
lyrics choke me up -- you know that I am a very sensitive
fellow.
>Of course, after much trial and error, the only indications
>apparent thus far that I am indeed getting any closer to
>realizing that delusion as fact are entirely self-serving
>and purely anecdotal. Thus, my quandary -- what the fuck
>do I do now!?!
You are getting con fused, Bubba. I remember when we would
sit on your porch drinking Billy Beers. After a few (a-hem)
two many Billy Beers you would get con fused, Bubba. First
you would get mean, nasty and insulting, then you would wander
out to the shed to polish your golf club. I stayed away from
you when you went to the shed, Bubba -- I was afraid that in
your con fusion you would wrap that nine iron around my neck.
No, I stayed on the porch and picked up the Billy Beer cans
littering the porch. I did not want your bride thinking that
*I* was the bad influence -- I might be DISinvited. Come to
think of it, your bride avoided you when you were in the shed
polishing your golf club, Bubba -- I probably didn't have
to worry. But picking the Billy Beer cans up off the porch
was the gentlemanly thing to do.
>...
>
>Wanna hear a poem?
>
>No, wait. That won't work, will it?
>
>I mean, I've tried that.
And it did not work ...
>You've read some of my stuff before, haven't you?
>
>It's like beating yourself in the head with a hammer.
>
>It gets boring after a while.
Bubba, the best thing about beating yourself in the head with
a hammer is that it feels so good when you stop. The best
thing about beating your head on a masonry wall is that it
teaches you to find the door.
There is short term thinking,
there is long term thinking, and
there is a time and a place for both.
$600K for a starter house in LA?
I got no problems
20:00:15 8:00:15
1 02 03 06 09 21 8
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
>>From: "THE Cast Iron Bitch" rhy...@pishoff.com
>
>>Bra - vo! *Nice*!
>
>No!
>
>Hold the applause.
>
>I'm mean!
>
>...
>
>Really ...
>
>no kidding ...
>
>nasty even ...
Bubba's not kidding -- Bubba is mean.
Back in the old days we would sit on Bubba's porch
drinking Billy Beer. Bubba would get this big grin on
his face, he would look me in the eye and say "Wonder
what the poor people are doing today?" Bubba knew
what the poor people were doing today -- I was drinking
Bubba's Billy Beer. I just shut my mouth -- I did not
want to drool Billy Beer down my front.
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
Bubba, I know when to sit on the porch, when to put on
my jogging shoes, and when to climb a tree.
Richard Ballard
hierony...@aol.com (Hieronymous707) writes:
>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>
>>You get to vote, Bubba, and you get to live with the
>>election results.
>
>The votes have been cast, Richard. The result are in.
>
>Reread the thread, if necessary.
Bubba, I don't know what your vote is, but I vote 'Last'.
>>Bubba, I am going to be charitable. When you call me as ass
>>I am going to assume that you are refering my generosity and
>>to the two related maxims:
>
>First of all, I mean at least as far as charity goes, I didn't
>call you "as ass". I didn't even call you an ass. All I said
>was that from my point of view you were, and have been, showing
>your ass.
You got me a little worried, Bubba. I am not a judge of male
pulchritude, and I do not comment about certain portions of
other men's anatomies. Wat you been doin', Bubba? You
feelin' mean, Bubba?
>I can with a relative degree of certainty, even without
>knowing you, that you must have an ass.
>
>If you do not, then indeed my sympathies are with you, and
>be advised that your tenor and tone indicates the necessity
>for checking, if not actually changing your colostomy bag.
I am going to be charitable, Bubba, and assume that you
are con fused. When I was in Middle School (Junior High
School) I had a paper route, I had a carrier's bag, and I
carried newspapers in the carrier's bag. Bubba, I had more
walking-around-money when I had my paper route than I do
today. Now I am a poor man, Bubba. The only bag I have
is a grocery bag and I carry groceries, but I purchase my
groceries with cash -- no checks required.
What do *you* carry, Bubba?
>>"When your burdens seem too heavy to bear,
>>be thankful for the things you need not carry."
>
>To me, that indicates that you don't carry a bag;
>therefore you must have an ass.
You are con fused again, Bubba.
>>"Don't be a nice ass -- other people will attempt
>>to shift all their burdens onto you."
>
>That sounds kind of like what I said,
>only I never said you were an, or as an, ass.
>
>I simply said you were showing it.
>
>You still are, in fact.
I will not al low you to con fuse me, Bubba.
>>Your statements remind of Larry Niven's novel "World Of Ptavvs",
>>Bubba.
>
>I, apparently, remind a lot of people of a lot of people.
>
>Far be it from me to name drop.
Read the novel, Bubba -- quietly.
>>Ignore me, Bubba and your dia logue stops. No problem.
>
>-I- don't have a "dia logue", Richard, whatever that means.
>
>And you can mean whatever you want to by it;
>I don't have a problem with that.
>
>But as much as you may want to think differently,
>I'm not talking to myself here, you know.
Bubba, if thought you were talking to yourself I would not
respond. But I will continue to respond to your insults.
(BTW Bubba, are you sure that you spelled 'colostomy' right?)
>It takes at least two to dialogue, if that's the term you
>were trying to use.
>
>Therefore, there is no way that I can have a dialogue
>by myself with you.
Bubba, as long as you insult me you are going to have to
settle for dia logue. I am *not* going to dance with you.
>>Stop struggling and enjoy your camping party this weekend, Bubba.
>
>Look, please stop telling me what to do. You're not the boss of me.
>
>I simply can't enjoy anything without struggling at it. It's just
>the way I am; the way I see things. If you've got a problem with
>that, take it to the shop steward.
I don't need the shop steward to handle your insults, Bubba.
>>Ignore me and your dia logue stops.
>
>Fine, if you don't want to talk, I'm sure there's somebody else
>out there.
>
>Everybody talks out their ass from time to time.
>Some people control it better than others.
Read the novel Bubba -- quietly.
>>The pride is on the inside, Bubba. And I *am* a humble jogger.
>>A proud jogger drives to the track in a flashy car -- I jog.
>
>Excuse me, but that's not the difference between a proud and
>a humble jogger.
Bubba, it makes no sense for me to drive my 1994 Chevy to
the park so that I can jog around the park. I leave my Chevy
parked at my humble home and I jog to the park. Is that
sufficient parking for you, Bubba?
>>Bubba, it is better to know when not to expose yourself
>>in the first place.
>
>If you only knew how much you expose of yourself without,
>apparently, even knowing you're doing it ...
Bubba, do you know the two signs of old age in men?
1) Forgetting to zip their trousers up after they urinate;
2) Forgetting to zip their trousers down before they urinate.
>I know, that's not a complete sentence.
>
>Don't worry about it.
I don't worry about my zipper, Bubba. You pay attention
to your own zipper, Bubba.
There is short term thinking,
there is long term thinking, and
there is a time and a place for both.
$600K for a starter house in LA?
Hieronymous707
Hieronymous707
Hieronymous707
>Bubba, I know when
<yawn>
Time for bed. Gotta get up early.
Have a good weekend, Richard.
Talk atcha next week maybe.
-hi-
Richard Ballard
Issued approximately twenty-one days before each sabbat.
Each issue's new and significantly changed paragraphs begin
with a <*> marker.
Part Two is contained in a subsequent message titled
"A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part Two
of Two Parts)". Helpful definitions were included in earlier
messages entitled "Definitions For Prospective Wiccan Novices
(Part One/Two/Three of Three Parts)".
<*> The evening of September 21st [midnight September 22nd
Stonehenge time] is the sabbat Mabon (May-bone or Mah-boon),
named for the Welsh God who symbolized the male fertilizing
principle in Welsh mythology. Some consider Mabon to be
Persephone's male counterpart.
<*> In Europe Mabon marked the end of the second harvest when
autumn crops (grapes, nuts and apples) were gathered. The
equinox marked the infamous Festival of Dionysus (the God of
Wine) in ancient Rome. The Scottish and Welsh poured Mabon
wines onto the ground during their celebrations, symbolically
honoring the aging Goddess moving into her Crone aspect and
as a symbolic blood sacrifice so that the God might live
until Samhain.
<*> Mabon marks the beginning of Autumn, the time when the earth
has surrendered its harvest and Nature withers, to be renewed
again in the Spring. Similar to the European "Harvest Home"
festival, Pagans refer to this Autumn Equinox as "The Witches'
Thanksgiving". Typical Mabon activities include cider pressing,
grain threshing, dancing, feasting from the plentiful harvest,
and crowning a Harvest King and Queen. The Harvest King and
Queen ritually symbolize the God and Goddess, and represent the
Earth's survival through the upcoming Winter's hardship for
renewed fertility in the Spring. The cornocopia (horn of plenty)
symbolizes Mabon -- it is both a phallic symbol and a symbol
of the Earth's fertility.
<*> In China Mabon is known as Chung Ch'iu and marks the end of
the rice harvest. Judaism celebrates Succoth near this time.
<*> Mabon is a time when day and night are in balance, and all
other things likewise balance for one brief moment. The God
and Goddess are thought to have equal power on Mabon, as do
the forces of good and evil. Mabon marks a seasonal transition,
the Deities are aging and the Wiccan God will die with the old
year. Mabon is a time to prepare for the upcoming winter and
its hardships.
With this Sabbat approaching, many Wiccans are discussing
Wicca more openly, and many of their friends are hearing about
Wicca for the first time. These friends might ask "How can I
learn about Wicca?"
<*> Texts and films are one source of quality information, and
texts and films do not contain oathbound secrets. But before
offering these references I must state that I am _not_ a Wiccan,
a witch, a Pagan or a satanist. People ask me "Why are you
providing this reference list on the Internet?" One reason is
that I heard about Wicca in an acquaintance's chance comment, and
learning details about Paganism and Wicca has cost me much time
and trouble. Another reason I provide this reference list is the
flood of negativism on the Pagan- and Wicca-related Internet
newsgroups. It appears that everybody has a license to criticize
and complain, but few have a license to make a positive contribution.
<*> I have defined my documents' current scope: Providing information
about 21st Century Pagan and Wiccan practices based upon my reading,
my Internet newsgroup participation, and my arms-length observations
in my locale. IMO this is the information that _not committed_
prospective Wiccan novices seek. Assembling that information cost me
much time and trouble -- time and trouble that _not committed_
prospective Wiccan novices can avoid by reading my documents. In
the future (and time permitting) I might enlarge the scope of my
documents to include the historical Pagan and Wiccan definitions and
references preferred by conservative and _already committed_ Pagans
and Wiccans.
<*> If One wants to provide a list of Wiccan references to
_not committed_ and interested friends, I recommend the
following references (and recommend that they be read/viewed
in the order given):
1) "Wicca: A Guide For The Solitary Practitioner"
by Scott Cunningham.
5 stars -- A Practical Guide for the Solitary Wiccan
Scott Cunningham is well-regarded within the Wiccan community
and his "Wicca: A Guide For The Solitary Practitioner" is very
popular, particularly with prospective Wiccan novices. Yet
some people discredit Mr. Cunningham because his Tradition
permits Wiccan solitary worshippers to self-initiate. Other
people discredit Mr. Cunningham because they believe that he
does not differentiate between witches and Wiccans.
In "Wicca: A Guide For The Solitary Practioner" Scott Cunningham
expresses a philosophy (mirroring the agnostic philosophy of
twice Nobel Laurate Lord Bertrand Russell) that ethics are of
greater importance than strict adherence to religious dogma. In
consequence, sincere worshippers *can* self-initiate under Mr.
Cunningham's stated philosophy and Wiccan Tradition. BTW, this
liberal philosophy also is consistent with the Seax-Wica Tradition
described by Raymond Buckland in "The Tree: The Complete Book of
Saxon Witchcraft".
Integral to many Wiccan Traditions (e.g., Cunningham, Buckland) is
the tenet that Wiccan Covens and solitary worshippers are free to
define and modify their Traditions. There is *no requirement*
that a Wiccan solitary worshipper have any contact or
correspondence with a (lineaged) Wiccan Coven or High Priest/ess.
There is *no requirement* that a self-initiated Wiccan solitary
worshipper serve a 'year-and-a-day' apprenticeship prior to
becoming a Wiccan solitary worshipper. Likewise, Covens are
*not bound* to require a 'year-and-a-day' apprenticeship prior
to initiating Coven members.
Scott Cunningham *did* differentiate between witches and Wiccans.
Reading the entire text is best, but prospective Wiccan novices
can verify quickly the difference in Scott Cunningham's definitions
by comparing his definitions for 'Wicca' and 'Witch' given on pages
203 and 204 of the above-referenced text.
Wiccan Coven members might disagree with Mr. Cunningham's
statements. I equate their disagreement with a difference of
Wiccan Tradition. I believe that Wiccan Covens and solitary
worshippers (and authors) are free to define and modify their
own Wiccan Traditions.
2) "Inside A Witches' Coven" by Edain McCoy.
5 stars -- Common Sense Discussion of Joining A Coven
3) "The Sabbats: A New Approach to Living the Old Ways"
by Edain McCoy.
5 stars -- A Celebration Of The Pagan Sabbats
Ms. Edain McCoy is controversial within the Pagan community.
Magick sometimes is described as being left- or right-handed
magick. Left-handed magick tends to be dark (obscuring),
domineering, *chaotic* magick with little regard for ethics or
morality. [Imagine the most misleading pre-election political
advertisements possible -- a perfect example of chaotic,
left-handed magick.] Left-handed magick often is associated
with satanism and has gained popularity in the past several
years. Right-handed magick tends to be light (illuminating),
non-interfering *benign* magick. Ms. McCoy specializes in
wholesome light magick. I believe that Ms. McCoy's critics
are criticizing Ms. McCoy's wholesome light magick more than
they are criticizing Ms. McCoy.
Some accuse Ms. McCoy of poor scholarship, and criticize the
Irish 'Witta' Tradition that she presents in her book "Witta:
An Irish Pagan Tradition". Their principal arguments are
that 'Witta' is not linguistically correct in the Celtic
tongue, and that the Irish could not have worshipped a 'potato
Goddess' because the Irish potato was a New World vegetable.
<*> IMO this controversy is a Wiccan _non-issue_. After some
preliminary (and flawed) research of my own, several readers
suggested Internet website references discussing the origin of
the Irish (white) potato:
<*> "http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/sustainable/peet/profiles/c15potat.html"
(no quotes); excerpts from "Sustainable Practices for Vegetable
Production in the South" by Mary M. Peet, Ph.D. Professor, Department
of Horticultural Science, North Carolina State University.
<*> "http://history-magazine.com/potato.html" (no quotes); article
'The Impact of the Potato' by Jeff Chapman on the "History Magazine"
website.
<*> "http://www.cup.org/books/kiple/potatoes.htm" (no quotes);
excerpts from "THE CAMBRIDGE WORLD HISTORY OF FOOD" edited by
Kenneth F. Kiple and Kriemhild Conee` Ornelas (the most detailed
reference).
<*> These website references indicate that the Irish (white) potato
originated in the South American Andes Mountains and propagated
naturally throughout large areas of South America, Central America
and the southern United States. Sixteenth-century Spanish explorers,
who first observed the potato in Peru, Bolivia, Colombia, and Ecuador
adopted the Quechua name, papa. The first specimens, arguably
short-day S. tuberosum ssp. andigena forms from Colombia, probably
reached Spain around 1570. All European potato varieties in the
first 250 years were derived from the original introductions, which
constituted a very narrow gene pool that left almost all potatoes
vulnerable to devastating viruses and fungal blights (e.g., the Irish
crop failures and famine) by the mid-nineteenth century. The use of
(?) manure fertilizer did not help the situation. The references
also note that some early Spanish chroniclers misused the Indian word
batata (sweet potato) as the name for the Irish (white) potato.
<*> Why do I consider the Irish (white) potato's origin a Wiccan
_non-issue_? Irish (white) potatoes reached Europe in the 1570's.
Gerald Gardner *invented* Wicca in the 1950's (roughly 380 years
later) when he invented the so-called Gardnerian Wiccan Tradition.
These dates indicate that Irish (white) potatoes in Europe are
_prehistoric_ by Wiccan standards. Ms. McCoy states that Irish
(white) potatoes are sacred in her later [c1993, ISBN 0-87542-732-4]
Wittan Tradition. Irish (white) potatoes were a mainstay of the
Irish diet, and it is appropriate that Wittans associate potatoes
with the fertile Goddess. ***The "History Magazine" article URL
referenced above is particularly relevant.*** It discusses how
Western Civilization was undernourished throughout much of its
early history, and how infant mortality rates decreased and
population swelled wherever the Irish (white) potato was introduced
into Western diets -- very relevant to the fertile Goddess.
[Remember that the next time you fill your gasoline (petrol) tank
with gasoline costing _significantly_ more than $1US per gallon.]
And Irish (white) potatoes in Europe predate both Gardnerian Wicca
and Ms. McCoy's Irish Witta Tradition.
<*> The right of Wiccan Covens and solitary worshippers (and Wiccan
authors) to define and modify their own Traditions is a central
Wiccan tenet. Ms. McCoy's liberal Irish 'Witta' Tradition and
Gerald Gardner's conservative Gardnerian Wicca Tradition are equally
valid. I equate a statement "Your Tradition contains errors or
blatant falsities" to the statement "Your Tradition differs from
my Tradition". The work of Wiccan authors reflects their own
Traditions. If an individual (or author) wants to incorporate a
given word or concept within their own Tradition that is their
right as long as they are not hindering others' worship.
***Self-determination is a Wiccan right.*** Ms. McCoy is free
to define her own Wittan Tradition -- the usage harms no one.
<*> IMO comments criticizing Ms. McCoy's scholarship and her Irish
Witta Tradition are biased personal attacks against Ms. McCoy and
her wholesome Tradition (attacks from the other side of the bog?).
<*> I include Ms. McCoy's texts within my reference list because
my primary emphasis is identifying ***well- and clearly-written
references relevant to current Wiccan practices***. Ms. McCoy's
texts are well- and clearly-written, and her texts address current
topics relevant and attractive to _ not committed_ prospective
Wiccan novices. Ms. McCoy's texts reflect a wholesome Pagan ethic
that helps distinguish Wicca and other forms of Paganism from
witchcraft and satanism. (And Ms. McCoy apparently lives within
the oaken forests of southern Indiana, an area I know well.) I
highly recommend Ms. McCoy's wholesome texts to _not committed_
prospective Wiccan novices.
4) "Haxan: Witchcraft Through The Ages"
by director Benjamin Christensen
5 stars -- A valuable seventy year old reference
"Haxan: ..." is a 1929 silent film that was updated in 1967
with an avant garde jazz score and narration by William Burroughs
(author of "The Naked Lunch"). "Haxan: ..." clearly is prejudicial
against witches, yet I consider "Haxan: ..." a valuable reference
for two reasons. First, "Haxan: ..." graphically documents public
perception of witchcraft and demonic possession in the year 1929.
In addition, "Haxan: ..." graphically documents that public perception
of witchcraft and demonic possession has _not changed_ much since the
year 1929.
"Haxan: ..." discusses persecution of witches during 'The Burning
Times' (also discussed in "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Wicca and
Witchcraft" listed later in this message). "Haxan: ..." (and "The
Complete Idiot's Guide ...") does not discuss the possibility that
The Burning Times were initiated when livestock and peasants ate
wet ergot-infested grain, developed epileptic-like seizures, and
overzealous inquisitors interpreted the seizures as evidence of
demonic possession. "Haxan: ..." portrays witches simultaneously
as drawn to sensual demonic rituals, and as cold and sexually
dysfunctional women seeking the financial security that accompanies
marriage.
Interestingly, "Haxan: ..." depicts demonic skin as rough and
patterned. Depending upon your perspective, the depiction either
is lizard-like or resembles the rash that occurs in later stages
of syphilis infection.
My interpretation of "Haxan: ..." is that marriage to an abusive
husband can seem like demonic possession (particularly if poor
finances or societal custom preclude the escape that divorce offers),
and that marriage to an abusive or indifferent husband can create
a sexually dysfunctional woman. I also admit the possibility that
in a paternalistic society (such as colonial America) where divorce
was not permitted, accusing a wife or woman lover of witchcraft was
one method to terminate an unhappy relationship. Current United
States society is more gender-neutral -- either partner can falsely
charge the other when an unhappy relationship exists.
IMO many people (including Wiccans, witches, satanists and other
Pagans) have difficulty distinguishing Wicca (a religion) from
witchcraft (goal-oriented magick use). Ethics, morality and
religion appear nowhere with Haxan's witches. IMO ethics and
morality *must* be included within Wiccan tenets if Wicca is to
be distinguishable from generic witchcraft and satanism.
5) "The Practice of Witchcraft Today: An Introduction to
Beliefs and Rituals" by Robin Skelton
5 stars -- A detailed overview of Wiccan practices for the
advanced novice
6) "The Tree: The Complete Book of Saxon Witchcraft"
by Raymond Buckland
5 stars -- The Saxon Wiccan's Free Will Book of Spells
I recommend the following film *despite reservations*:
7) "Tattoo" starring Bruce Dern and Maude Adams
4 stars -- A flawed Creation story
"Tattoo" is *not* a story of Wicca or witchcraft, but some
Wiccan initiation rituals require that the initiate accept the
Coven's sigil tattoo before initiation. "Tattoo" is the story
of an obsessed tattoo artist who drugs and kidnaps a woman.
The woman awakens to find she has become the tattoo artist's
canvas and that the tattoo artist is consecrating her body with
tattoos -- the obsessed artist is creating his Goddess.
Being tattooed is a permanent and painful commitment.
"Tattoo" portrays creation of large exquisite pastel tattoos.
"Tattoo" does portray physical pain during tattooing, but
opaque body paint was used to simulate the pastel tattoos.
Most tattoos utilize dark colors that are easy to repair in
case of abrasion, flaking due to winter dryness, or sunburn
peeling -- pastel inks are difficult to patch successfully.
Tattooed skin requires care to maintain tattoo beauty. To
maintain her exquisite pastel tattoos' beauty, the woman
portrayed in "Tattoo" would be forced to become a hothouse
plant.
I recommend that any person interested in getting tattooed
read the two Frequently Asked Questions documents (FAQs)
provided periodically on the rec.arts.bodyart Internet newsgroup.
Reading these FAQs will answer many questions, and will help
interested persons ask informed questions when evaluating
tattoo artists and their facilities. I further recommend that
anyone being tattooed follow their tattoo artist's skin care
instructions.
I have no tattoos, but I know people who have extensive,
difficult-to-patch pastel tattoos. I know the care
these people take to keep their extensive pastel tattoos
looking attractive.
IMO the two rec.arts.bodyart FAQs are well-written
and informative. These FAQs stress the skin care
required to prevent damage to pastel tattoos, and
the FAQs stress health considerations required
during and after tattoo application.
I provide additional information concerning tattoos
and thermal branding of human skin later in this document.
I recommend the following film *despite reservations*:
8) "Skin Art" by director W. Blake Herron
3 stars -- Branded for slavery
"Skin Art" is *not* a story of Wicca or witchcraft. "Skin Art"
is the story of Southeast Asian women who are purchased and
imported to work in a local Oriental bordello. Prior to working
in the bordello each woman's entire back and shoulders are covered
with an ornate tattoo. The bordello's customers find the tattoos
stimulating, while the painful tattooing process is part of the
bordello's submissiveness training.
<*> I include "Skin Art" in this list because of a personal
experience. I once attended a college repertory event at the
school year start. The audience included a young woman whose
head was shaved and whose scalp held a partially-completed
dragon tattoo in black outline. A woman might want to tattoo
a body part that is normally covered by clothing, but why hide
a tattoo where a future spouse was unlikely to discover it?
Unless the young woman intended to shave her scalp in perpetuity
I know only one justification: the young woman was an extortion
victim and the hidden tattoo was verification to be used in
extortion claims against the woman's future husband.
Consider the following excerpt from Psalm 23
(King David's Psalm):
"... Thou preparest a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
thou anointest my head with oil,
my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
for ever."
I am not a Biblical scholar, but I associate with Psalm 23
a Biblical injunction: "I shall not lie down with my enemies."
(i.e., "I will not submit.")
I am forced to assume that the abovementioned woman
with the scalp tattoo hoped to hide her tattoo from her
future husband. I also am forced to assume that some
person held either photographic or video records of the
woman with her scalp tattoo engaged in activities that
compromised her possibility for a good faith relationship
with her future husband. I hope that the woman found
candor in her heart.
<*> [BTW, one reader stated that scalp tattooing works best
when the subject has been shaving his/her scalp for some
time -- apparently shaving toughens the scalp. To my
knowledge tattoo artists do *not* want a tough canvas.
In fact, I know cases where a particularly elaborate tattoo
was planned and the subject moisturized the skin area for
several weeks *prior* to receiving the tattoo. Moisturizing
makes the skin supple and gives the skin a uniform texture.
<*> The same reader mentioned shaving over a tattoo. Much
of a tattoo's pigmentation is on the skin surface -- I can not
imagine risking damaging a tattoo by blade shaving over it.]
<*> I recommend that individuals planning to get tattoos
follow their tattoo artist's care instructions both before
and after receiving a tattoo.
Branding by tattooing [less frequently by thermal branding]
sometimes occurs in the United States, but more often women are
bound by indebtness (e.g., car payments) and several hungry
children in a poor domestic economy.
Many tattoos are applied using saturated color (e.g.,
primarily dark black, but also dark red and dark blue)
inks exclusively. The advantage of using saturated
color inks is that should the tattooed area later become
damaged due to abrasion, skin dryness or sunburn,
the tattoo can be patched without 'color match' problems
-- e.g., dark black is dark black, etc.
When tattoos employing pastel colored inks are damaged,
the tattoo artist can encounter 'color match' problems
similar to the paint matching problems that auto body
shops encounter. ***Light-colored pastel inks are difficult
to exactly color match, particularly if the skin damage
changes the underlying skin's characteristics (e.g., as
the result of bad sunburn).***
Individuals receiving tattoos employing pastel-colored
inks must be especially careful that their tattoos do not
become damaged if they want to maintain the beauty of their
pastel-colored tattoos. *I have no tattoos*, but I know
people who have extensive, difficult-to-patch pastel tattoos.
I know the care these people take to keep their extensive
pastel tattoos looking attractive.
IMO the two rec.arts.bodyart FAQs are well-written
and informative. These FAQs stress the skin care
required to prevent damage to pastel tattoos, and
the FAQs stress health considerations required
during and after tattoo application.
In November 1998 I downloaded the "rec.arts.bodyart:
Alternative Bodyart FAQ" from the Ohio State FAQ website.
I do not know if the "rec.arts.bodyart: Alternative Bodyart
FAQ" still is available on the Internet. This FAQ discusses
thermal branding of human skin. ***The "rec.arts.bodyart:
Alternative Bodyart FAQ" is a very uncomfortable document.***
IMO the rationale for thermal branding of human skin (rather
than tattooing) are:
1) Rite of passage in some organizations and societies
2) Economical and fast alternative to group tattooing
3) No possibility of infection from a red hot branding iron
4) Once healed, thermal brands are free from the maintenance
problems associated with (pastel-colored) tattoos
5) Punishment and deterrent (For example, pain inflicted
as an example both to the affected individual and also to the
witnessing overall group. This ain't Nirvana, but it *is*
another way to enforce a binding oath of obedience. Some
people might prefer having a gun put to their head.)
*****End of Part One*****
The comments contained herein are my opinions. This message
was not solicited by Amazon.com, any author, any artist, or their
agent(s), publisher(s), producer(s) or distributor(s).
I am *not* an Islamic or Judaic scholar.
I am *not* legally qualified to provide medical, psychological,
legal, financial or religious opinions, but I have discussed some
issues with my Attorney and have read extensively in these areas.
I have strong opinions.
There is short term thinking,
there is long term thinking, and
there is a time and a place for both.
$600K for a starter house in LA?
I got no problems
05:50:21 20:00:21
1 02 03 06 09
21 8 23 05
Aunty Kreist
>Message-id: <20030907204127...@mb-m02.aol.com>
How many times are you going to spam this newsgroup in one day with this
garbage?
Maxie P. Diddly
"Aunty Kreist" <aunty...@aol.comeondown> wrote in message
> >Subject: A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part One
of Two
> >Parts)
> >From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
> >Date: 9/7/2003 8:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <20030907204127...@mb-m02.aol.com>
>
>
> How many times are you going to spam this newsgroup in one day with
this
> garbage?
To be fair, Aunty,he just posted it once. It's one post ouf of 5 that
he posts to arw once a month.
Aunty Kreist
>Parts)
>From: "Maxie P. Diddly" me...@do.not.spam.me.com
>Date: 9/7/2003 9:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <vlnmga9...@corp.supernews.com>
I can't tell the difference between them all. They all look exactly the same to
me.
Maxie P. Diddly
"Aunty Kreist" <aunty...@aol.comeondown> wrote in message
Yes, they do look alike.
Richard Ballard
aunty...@aol.comeondown (Aunty Kreist) writes:
>>Subject: A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices
>>(Part One of Two Parts)
>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>>Date: 9/7/2003 8:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <20030907204127...@mb-m02.aol.com>
>
>How many times are you going to spam this newsgroup in one day
>with this garbage?
My periodic messages (nominally forty-two day intervals)
are issued with predictable titles in my one e-mail address
(RBall...@aol.com). I do this purposefully so that
individuals who are not interested in these messages
can easily filter them.
If *you* consider my message "garbage", why did *you*
include my _entire_ message in your reply?
>>Copyright 2003 by Richard J. Ballard -- All Rights Reserved.
>>Issued approximately twenty-one days before each sabbat.
>>Each issue's new and significantly changed paragraphs begin
>>with a <*> marker.
>>
>>Part Two is contained in a subsequent message titled
>>"A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part Two
>>of Two Parts)". Helpful definitions were included in earlier
>>messages entitled "Definitions For Prospective Wiccan Novices
>>(Part One/Two/Three of Three Parts)".
>>
>><*> The evening of September 21st [midnight September 22nd
>>Stonehenge time] is the sabbat Mabon (May-bone or Mah-boon),
>>named for the Welsh God who symbolized the male fertilizing
>>principle in Welsh mythology. Some consider Mabon to be
>>Persephone's male counterpart.
<big snip>
Aunty Kreist
>Message-id: <20030908073225...@mb-m01.aol.com>
>
>In article <20030907205925...@mb-m13.aol.com>,
>aunty...@aol.comeondown (Aunty Kreist) writes:
>
>>>Subject: A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices
>>>(Part One of Two Parts)
>>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>>>Date: 9/7/2003 8:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>>Message-id: <20030907204127...@mb-m02.aol.com>
>>
>>How many times are you going to spam this newsgroup in one day
>>with this garbage?
>
>My periodic messages (nominally forty-two day intervals)
>are issued with predictable titles in my one e-mail address
>(RBall...@aol.com). I do this purposefully so that
>individuals who are not interested in these messages
>can easily filter them.
>
>If *you* consider my message "garbage", why did *you*
>include my _entire_ message in your reply?
Out of courtesy. Question- how many of these books you are recommending have
you read?
Gargoyle
wrote:
>>Subject: A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices (Part One of Two
>>Parts)
>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>>Date: 9/7/2003 8:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <20030907204127...@mb-m02.aol.com>
>
>
>How many times are you going to spam this newsgroup in one day with this
>garbage?
Until someone replies, hon? hehehe
>>of a tattoo's pig}untation is on the skin surface -- I can not
>>imagine risking da}agyng a tattoo by blade shaving over it.]
>>
>><*> I recommend txad0individuals planning to get tattoos
>>follow their tattoo ardict's care instructions both before
>>and after receiving a tatdo .
>>
>>Branding by tattooing [less frequently by thermal bba~di~g]
>>sometimes occurs in the United States, but more often go}en0are
>>bound by indebtness (e.g., car payments) and several hengry
>>children in a poor domestic economy.
>>
>>Many tattoos are applied using saturated color (e.g.,
>>primarily dark black, but also dark red and dark blue)
>>inks exclusively. The advantage of using saturated
>>color inks is that should the tattooed area later become
>>damaged due to abrasion, skin dryness or sunburn,
>>the tattoo can be patched without 'color match' problems
>> -- e.g., dark black is dark black, etc.
.
>>When tattoos employing pastel colored inks are damaged,
.the tattoo artist can encounter 'color match' problems
>>si}ilar0to the paint matching problems that auto body
Gargoyle, The Evil Mr. Peanut - >;)_~~~~~
/\/\
(oo) "... hehehee... cawe fow a pickled eye?"
"Nah. Some things I just prefer fresh. hehehe"
ba...@dmcom.net
> Out of courtesy. Question- how many of these books you are recommending have
> you read?
In the past he has indicated he has read all the books lisited, however
understanding what was written is a question. I had pointed him to a
website and after a year he decided to visit it, then informed me what I
copied and pasted was not at the website. There are other instances of
him not seeing what is written and seeing things not written at all.
--
news:alt.pagan FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/altpag.txt
news:alt.religion.wicca FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/arwfaq2.txt
news:news.groups FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/ngfaq.txt
Want a new group FAQs http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/ncreate.html
Richard Ballard
aunty...@aol.comeondown (Aunty Kreist) writes:
>>Subject: Re: A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices
>>(Part One of Two Parts)
>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>>Date: 9/8/2003 7:32 AM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <20030908073225...@mb-m01.aol.com>
>>
>>In article <20030907205925...@mb-m13.aol.com>,
>>aunty...@aol.comeondown (Aunty Kreist) writes:
>>
>>>>Subject: A Reference List For Prospective Wiccan Novices
>>>>(Part One of Two Parts)
>>>>From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>>>>Date: 9/7/2003 8:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>>>Message-id: <20030907204127...@mb-m02.aol.com>
>>>
>>>How many times are you going to spam this newsgroup in one day
>>>with this garbage?
>>
>>My periodic messages (nominally forty-two day intervals)
>>are issued with predictable titles in my one e-mail address
>>(RBall...@aol.com). I do this purposefully so that
>>individuals who are not interested in these messages
>>can easily filter them.
>>
>>If *you* consider my message "garbage", why did *you*
>>include my _entire_ message in your reply?
>
>Out of courtesy.
Yes, you clearly ran out of courtesy long ago.
>Question- how many of these books you are recommending
>have you read?
I have read all of the books that I discuss, some multiple
times.
And with the exception of Aleister Crowley's "MAGICK In
Theory and Practice" (MTP) I own physical copies of all
the books I discuss. I have an electronic copy of MTP
that I scanned from an out-of-print volume.
Please excuse me now. I have read your messages for a long
time and I just ran out of tolerance for rude arrogant people.
I have to update my killfile list.
Richard Ballard
>Aunty Kreist wrote:
>
>>Out of courtesy. Question- how many of these books you are
>>recommending have you read?
>
>In the past he has indicated he has read all the books lisited,
>however understanding what was written is a question.
Bard, your last FAQ issuance on 12 August 2003 indicates that
your ARW FAQ 2.0 was last modified on "5 June 2001". You
appear to have *endless* time to complain about others' writings
(which change and grow with each new issuance) but have
*nothing* new to say yourself. Get out and get a life!
>I had pointed him to a website and after a year he decided to
>visit it, then informed me what I copied and pasted was not at
>the website. There are other instances of him not seeing what
>is written and seeing things not written at all.
Somebody who has noticed no changes since 2001 apparently
has his own head effectively buried.
Lush
question, hasn't bothered to fucking reply. Well, what a surprise.
He's such a fucking hypocrit.
Lush
"Aunty Kreist" <aunty...@aol.comeondown> wrote in message
news:20030907205925...@mb-m13.aol.com...
Lush
Lush
"Aunty Kreist" <aunty...@aol.comeondown> wrote in message
news:20030907214128...@mb-m03.aol.com...
Lush
Still, I'd hardly say this reply is written with the respect you owe your
betters.
Lush
"Richard Ballard" <rball...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030908073225...@mb-m01.aol.com...
Lush
Lush
"Richard Ballard" <rball...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030909080054...@mb-m10.aol.com...
ba...@dmcom.net
>
> Fantastic. The miserable old man is burying his head in the sand again.
>
*shrugs* It might reduce noise some.
Aunty Kreist
>Message-id: <20030909080054...@mb-m10.aol.com>
>
>In article <3F5DB2...@dmcom.net>, ba...@dmcom.net writes:
>
>>Aunty Kreist wrote:
>>
>>>Out of courtesy. Question- how many of these books you are
>>>recommending have you read?
>>
>>In the past he has indicated he has read all the books lisited,
>>however understanding what was written is a question.
>
>Bard, your last FAQ issuance on 12 August 2003 indicates that
>your ARW FAQ 2.0 was last modified on "5 June 2001". You
>appear to have *endless* time to complain about others' writings
>(which change and grow with each new issuance) but have
>*nothing* new to say yourself. Get out and get a life!
Maybe he doesn't care for "jogging".
>>I had pointed him to a website and after a year he decided to
>>visit it, then informed me what I copied and pasted was not at
>>the website. There are other instances of him not seeing what
>>is written and seeing things not written at all.
>
>Somebody who has noticed no changes since 2001 apparently
>has his own head effectively buried.
No offense, Richard, but the irony in this statement is neck deep.
>Please excuse me now. I have read your messages for a long
>time and I just ran out of tolerance for rude arrogant people.
>I have to update my killfile list.
That was quite rude and arrogant, Richard. Are we having a bad day?
I thought you've been yammering for years that Bard already _was_ on your
"global killfile list"?
>There is short term thinking,
>there is long term thinking, and
>there is a time and a place for both.
>
>$600K for a starter house in LA?
> I got no problems
> 05:50:21 20:00:21
> 1 02 03 06 09
> 21 8 23 05
What the hell is all this clutter? Are you playing football or something?
> 'Life in the trailer park'
> is a *long* sentence
You have my sympathies. Why don't you move then?
>Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
IPONTHEE
>Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
>Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at www.amazon.com
>Last book review: "Combatting Cult Mind Control"
> by Steven Hassan
Love, Aunty xxx
Aunty Kreist
>Parts)
>From: "Lush" Count.Lushbat@nof*ckingspam.com
>Date: 9/9/2003 9:06 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3f5dd02d$0$23612$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au>
>
>Well, I take that back. What do you know.
>
>Still, I'd hardly say this reply is written with the respect you owe your
>betters.
MWah! Funny man.... :)
>> There is short term thinking,
>> there is long term thinking, and
>> there is a time and a place for both.
>>
>> $600K for a starter house in LA?
>> I got no problems
>> 05:50:21 20:00:21
>> 1 02 03 06 09
>> 21 8 23 05
>> 'Life in the trailer park'
>> is a *long* sentence
>>
>> Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
>> --
>> Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
>> Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at www.amazon.com
>> Last book review: "Combatting Cult Mind Control"
>> by Steven Hassan
>>
>
Love, Aunty xxx
ba...@dmcom.net
>
> That was quite rude and arrogant, Richard. Are we having a bad day?
>
> I thought you've been yammering for years that Bard already _was_ on your
> "global killfile list"?
>
Oh many of us were, however maybe 6 months ago some of us escaped, or he
cleaned out kill file, or kill file broke.
root
> Aunty Kreist wrote:
>
> >
> > That was quite rude and arrogant, Richard. Are we having a bad day?
> >
> > I thought you've been yammering for years that Bard already _was_ on
your
> > "global killfile list"?
> >
>
> Oh many of us were, however maybe 6 months ago some of us escaped, or he
> cleaned out kill file, or kill file broke.
I think he's killfiled me this time around, shame really, I could show him
so many things ;) hehehe
golwg
Matthew
--
Sod the bridge, just jump over
Tuesday Knight
Sorry. Daydreaming :-)
___
/uesday
/<night
Richard Ballard
"root" <ro...@mouse-potato.com> writes:
><ba...@dmcom.net> wrote in message
>news:3F5E0E...@dmcom.net...
>
>>Aunty Kreist wrote:
>>
>>>That was quite rude and arrogant, Richard. Are we having a bad day?
How patronizing. Gone and not missed.
>>>I thought you've been yammering for years that Bard already _was_
>>>on your "global killfile list"?
I don't yammer -- Bard yammers. Bard has been yammering for years.
>>Oh many of us were, however maybe 6 months ago some of us escaped,
>>or he cleaned out kill file, or kill file broke.
Gone and not missed.
>I think he's killfiled me this time around, shame really, I could
>show him so many things ;) hehehe
Matthew, you have nothing (including knowledge) that I want.
And with the accompanying message, you are gone and not missed.
There is short term thinking,
there is long term thinking, and
there is a time and a place for both.
$600K for a starter house in LA?
I got no problems
05:35:09 _8:35:03
Aunty Kreist
>Parts)
>Date: 9/9/2003 8:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20030909200938...@mb-m21.aol.com>
>
>In article <bjlaia$18k$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>"root" <ro...@mouse-potato.com> writes:
>
>><ba...@dmcom.net> wrote in message
>>news:3F5E0E...@dmcom.net...
>>
>>>Aunty Kreist wrote:
>>>
>>>>That was quite rude and arrogant, Richard. Are we having a bad day?
>
>How patronizing. Gone and not missed.
Exactly. I copied your reply, in case you haven't noticed. You called it right.
>>>>I thought you've been yammering for years that Bard already _was_
>>>>on your "global killfile list"?
>
>I don't yammer -- Bard yammers. Bard has been yammering for years.
Richard, if Bard yammers, then you must have the worst case of verbal diarrhea
that I've ever seen.
>>>Oh many of us were, however maybe 6 months ago some of us escaped,
>>>or he cleaned out kill file, or kill file broke.
>
>Gone and not missed.
I'm sure he's just crying the blues, Richard.
>>I think he's killfiled me this time around, shame really, I could
>>show him so many things ;) hehehe
>
>Matthew, you have nothing (including knowledge) that I want.
>And with the accompanying message, you are gone and not missed.
Then it's bully for you. You're the idiot then. It's a shame your "condition"
prohibits you from having the desire to learn from those that can teach.
>There is short term thinking,
>there is long term thinking, and
>there is a time and a place for both.
>
>$600K for a starter house in LA?
> I got no problems
> 05:35:09 _8:35:03
> 1 02 03 06 09
> 21 8 23 05
Hut!
> 'Life in the trailer park'
> is a *long* sentence
Then buy a Winnebago
>Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
>--
>Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
>Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at www.amazon.com
>Last book review: "Combatting Cult Mind Control"
> by Steven Hassan
Love, Aunty xxx
Lush
Lush
"Tuesday Knight" <tue...@hellmouthcentral.com> wrote in message
news:BB83B699.48C94%tue...@hellmouthcentral.com...
Lush
Lush
"Aunty Kreist" <aunty...@aol.comeondown> wrote in message
news:20030909124459...@mb-m27.aol.com...
Lush
Richard Ballard
>Aunty Kreist wrote:
>
>>That was quite rude and arrogant, Richard. Are we having a
>>bad day?
How patronizing. Gone and not missed.
>>I thought you've been yammering for years that Bard already
>>_was_ on your "global killfile list"?
*Bard* has been yammering for years, and nothing has changed.
>Oh many of us were, however maybe 6 months ago some of us escaped,
>or he cleaned out kill file, or kill file broke.
I'M BACK.
Please see my message titled "Re: Alt.Religion.Wicca Frequently
Asked Questions Version 2 (FAQ 2.0)" on newsgroups alt.pagan,
alt.magick.tyagi, or alt.religion.wicca .
Welcome to the party, pal.
There is short term thinking,
there is long term thinking, and
there is a time and a place for both.
$600K for a starter house in LA?
I got no problems
05:35:09 _8:35:03
Richard Ballard
ba...@dmcom.net writes:
>Lush wrote:
>>
>>Fantastic. The miserable old man is burying his head in the
>>sand again.
(A-HEM) 'miserable old man'?
Lush, you never did answer my question: "How did you choose
your distinctive Internet alias?"
>*shrugs* It might reduce noise some.
I'M BACK.
Maxie P. Diddly
> I'M BACK.
Has anyone figured out what this means, yet?
Parse Tree
"Lush" <Count.Lushbat@nof*ckingspam.com> wrote in message
news:3f5e9f2e$0$23602$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
Rhyanon
Feel free to do so, I'm just sayajin...........
>;D
"Hieronymous707" <hierony...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030810120138...@mb-m04.aol.com...
> >From: rball...@aol.com (Richard Ballard)
>
> >I have read your message carefully.
>
> Thanks. That's very kind of you, Richard.
>
> >Never lose your sense of humor.
> >If you lose your sense of humor you will have nothing.
>
> I'd rather die first ...
>
> Of course, if that happened, I'd probably really need
> my sense of humor then.
>
> >BTW, do you watch Al Bundy on "Married With Children"?
>
> I'm familiar with the character of course, although I don't recall ever
having
> watched an episode all the way through. I don't remember what shows came
on at
> the same time, but I must've been watching one of them, or maybe doing
> something else. You see, I am married with children.
>
> >You always could get a job as a shoe salesman.
>
> I don't really know what you mean by that, but I gather it to be, which is
to
> say it "feels" like, a good natured jab in the ribs like Hy gave me the
other
> day. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> In any event, much obliged for your comment.
>
> -hi-
>
>
Aunty Kreist
>Parts)
>Date: 9/10/2003 9:11 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <vlu8n14...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>I honestly do not understand why anyone wastes their time on Dick Ballard.
>Feel free to do so, I'm just sayajin...........
>>;D
Because he gets all kooky if pressured. It's fun. :-D It's as fun as making
Moonie go ballistic!
Love, Aunty xxx