Terry and Bettijean, please read.
Chive Mynde
<tep6vie...@corp.supernews.com>, "Steen wrote:
>
>Any disagreement with feminists is considered an attack.
Feminism is defined as the theory of the political,
economic and social equality of the sexes. A disagreement
with a feminist is a disagreement based on whether or
not the sexes should be treated equally.
Exactly what is your disagreement?
Did you know that Jesus was a feminist who loved whores
and told his followers that he loved them more than he
did his own disciples?
You can find the exact quote in the Gnostic scriptures
that the Christian Church has attempted to suppress for
two-thousand years.
There's even a section where the church tried to change
Christs teachings and they rewrote it so that Jesus
appeared to say that only *men* could get into heaven,
and that women must become men to get there.
Of course, Jesus never said that, just as he never said
half of the bullshit you and others claim he did.
I can give you *exact* quotes if you are interested.
HTH.
- Chive
Help Wanted: Psychic. You know where to apply.
John Reinhagen
Hash: SHA1
From the hand of Chive Mynde:
>On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:58:22 -0500, in article
><tep6vie...@corp.supernews.com>, "Steen wrote:
>>
>>Any disagreement with feminists is considered an attack.
>
>Feminism is defined as the theory of the political,
>economic and social equality of the sexes.
Feminism in practice is a pro-female sexist power grab. Get out of your
fantasy world so we can kick your ass.
JCR
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: http://www.gnupg.org/ -- GPLed OpenPGP-compatible encryption
iD8DBQE67LKGscO9RwHeJVURAlpOAKCKT74yQhut++sQCBgUOmlgByDg0ACfZkJy
wQaiwFW/kVDky5XifQ6DjFw=
=FRMC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Anon
"Chive Mynde" <chyve...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9ci8t...@drn.newsguy.com...
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:58:22 -0500, in article
> <tep6vie...@corp.supernews.com>, "Steen wrote:
> >
> >Any disagreement with feminists is considered an attack.
>
> Feminism is defined as the theory of the political,
> economic and social equality of the sexes. A disagreement
> with a feminist is a disagreement based on whether or
> not the sexes should be treated equally.
>
> Exactly what is your disagreement?
>
> Did you know that Jesus was a feminist who loved whores
> and told his followers that he loved them more than he
> did his own disciples?
Whoa, how do YOU know Jesus said that??? That contradicts what you've
written on the other thread regarding Jesus and the bible. Maybe somebody
put that in the bible and Jesus never said it at all...
Chive Mynde
"Anon" wrote:
>
>
>"Chive Mynde" <chyve...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:9ci8t...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:58:22 -0500, in article
>> <tep6vie...@corp.supernews.com>, "Steen wrote:
>> >
>> >Any disagreement with feminists is considered an attack.
>>
>> Feminism is defined as the theory of the political,
>> economic and social equality of the sexes. A disagreement
>> with a feminist is a disagreement based on whether or
>> not the sexes should be treated equally.
>>
>> Exactly what is your disagreement?
>>
>> Did you know that Jesus was a feminist who loved whores
>> and told his followers that he loved them more than he
>> did his own disciples?
>
>Whoa, how do YOU know Jesus said that??? That contradicts what you've
>written on the other thread regarding Jesus and the bible.
Perhaps you should look up the word "contradict" in the dictionary,
since you obviously don't know what it means.
I have contradicted nothing.
>Maybe somebody
>put that in the bible and Jesus never said it at all...
It was taken *out* of the bible, moron.
'There were three who always walked with the Lord:
Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene,
the one who was called his companion. His sister
and his mother and his companion were each a Mary."
Gospel of Philip
http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/gop.html
As for the Wisdom who is called "the barren," she is
the mother of the angels. And the companion of the
[...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all
the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth.
The rest of the disciples [...]. They said to him "Why
do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered
and said to them,"Why do I not love you like her? When
a blind man and one who sees are both together in darkness,
they are no different from one another. When the light
comes, then he who sees will see the light, and he who is
blind will remain in darkness."
Gospel of Philip
http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/gop.html
MEDITATIONS
The Feast of Holy Mary of Magdala
(July 22)
THE COLLECT
O helper of God and mystic silence before the Aeon, the father of
the universe sees thy Angel throughout before his face. We invoke
thee, O holy female power, by the angels who rest on the four
pillars, whose feet are firmly fixed on the foundations of the
divine abyss! We adore thee, great and glorious woman in whose bosom
the father of the Aeons was concealed from the beginning! Hail to
thee, who art declared in the disk of the night-shining moon; who
art present in the abysses of the mighty waters and whose celestial
radiance is concealed in the womb of the earth! Despised art thou
by the fools of the world, but ever revered by the knowers of the
truth! Maiden of the mysteries, consort of the Christos, beloved of
the Logos; praise, glory, and reverence shall be thine now and for evermore.
Amen.
THE LESSON
The lesson is taken from the Book of the Perfect Mind:
I was sent by the Power and came to those who thought of me. I was
found by those who sought me. Behold me, ye who thought of me. And
ye who wanted to hear me, listen to me. And ye who expected me,
accept me. And do not drive me away from before your eyes. And let
not your voice or your ear hate me. Do not ignore me anywhere or at
any time. Be careful, do not ignore me, for I am the first and the
last. I am the honored one and the despised one. I am the harlot and
I am the saint. I am the woman and I am the virgin. I am the mother
and I am the daughter. I am barren and I have many children. I have
many husbands and I am unmarried. I am the physician who heals and I
am the one who wounds. I am the bride and I am the bridegroom. I am
the mother of my husband and my husband is my father. I am the daughter
of my husband, and my husband is my son. I am the sister of my husband
and my husband is my brother. I am the slave of my father and I am the
mistress of my son.
THE GOSPEL
The gospel is taken from the the Gospel of St. Luke and
the Gospel according to St. Philip:
"And behold a woman in the city, which was a harlot, when she knew that
Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisees house brought an alabaster box of
ointment. And she stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to
wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head,
and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. When the Pharisee
which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself: This man if he
were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is
that toucheth him; for she is a harlot. And Jesus turned to the woman,
and said unto Simon the Pharisee: Seest thou this woman? I entered into
thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet; but she hath washed my
feet with tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head. Thou gavest me
no kiss; but this woman hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil
thou didst not anoint; but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Wherefore I say unto thee: Her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved
much.
The Sophia whom they call barren is the mother of the angels. And the
consort of Christ is Mary Magdalen. The Lord loved Mary more than all
the disciples and kissed her on her mouth often. The others said to him:
‘Why do you love her more than all of us?’ The Saviour answered and said
to them: ‘Why do I not love you like her?’ There were three who walked
with the Lord at all times, Mary his mother, and her sister and Magdalene,
whom they called his consort. For Mary was his sister and his mother and
his consort.
http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/ecclesia/lect145.htm
MEDITATIONS
Gnostic Homily for the Feast of Holy Mary of Magdala
by Rev. Steven Marshall
The Beloved of the Logos
The figure of Mary of Magdala, also known as Mary Magdalen, is both
complex and controversial. She has remained a mystery for a very long
time and an object of difficulty for the Church from the very beginning
of Christianity. One question we receive from those of mainstream
backgrounds is why the importance of Mary Magdalen in the Gnostic
scriptures and our contemporary practice of Gnosticism.
An attempt to answer this question and sort through the maze of material
that has been proposed may come from the Gnostics themselves in the
form of their insightful and very helpful threefold division of human
understanding: the hyletic (physical), the psychic (mental), and the
pneumatic (spiritual). The hyletic point of view, coming mainly from a
reductionistic materialism, proposes that Mary’s importance is as the
sexual partner, wife, and carrier of the bloodline of Jesus. The evidence
for this line of reasoning is so full of surmisings, suppostitions and
conjectures that we hardly need consider it, but even if true, many
great and benevolent rulers have given rise to progeny who were weak,
decadent and cruel. The genes do not necessarily determine the person.
So, even if the descendants of Jesus have been maintained in a bloodline
throughout history, little of salvific meaning has come from that quarter.
The psychic perspective, assuming Mary Magdalen to be the Mary of Bethany
who anoints and washes Jesus’ feet with her hair and the woman at the
well who has five husbands, considers her to be the model of the repentant
sinner. This again falls short of a really convincing answer. It devolves
into an ethical reductionism that proposes that simply changing our
behavior on a physical and psychological level will bring about the
Gnosis or relationship with the Savior that is truly salvific.
Only the pneumatic perspective, that of the Gnostic seems to penetrate
to the core of the issue of what makes the figure of Mary Magdalen so
important to Christianity as a whole and to Gnostic Christianity in
particular. The Gnostic recognizes Mary Magdalen as the one of the
greatest, if not the greatest apostle of Christ.
In the Gnostic literature she is titled, the Apostle who excels the
rest, the Disciple of the Lord, the One who knew the All, the One
who reveals the Greatness of the Revealer, the Inheritor of the Light,
the privileged Interlocutor, the One who is always with the Lord, the
One whom they call His Consort, and the Chosen of Women.
To contrast this with the mainstream understanding and attitude, let me
share with you a story that my friend Frodo, whom some of you may have met,
passed on to me. In one of her theology classes at Mt. Angel Seminary,
one of her Benedictine professors was asked about the definition of an
apostle. He answered that the apostles were those who saw Jesus and were blessed
by him after the resurrection. Frodo piped up, “Then Mary Magdalen
must have been the first apostle.” The professor nodded, “Yes, but we
don’t talk about that.” Yet even Pope John Paul II has called her “the
Apostle of the apostles.” A Manichaean document, The Psalms of Heraclites, calls
her the “Net-caster” who gathers together the remaining eleven
disciples back to the Saviour after the resurrection. This indicates that
she was one of the principal apostles of Christ.
And yet we intuitively sense that there was something about Mary; she
was not just one of the other disciples. She had a relationship with
the Christ that was different than the others. Part of our understanding
of the mystery of Mary Magdalen is to understand this relationship with
the Logos. Whether it was sexual in the physical way or purely spiritual
really makes no difference in the Gnostic perspective, some element of
their relationship far transcended the mere physical nature of the flesh.
Even as the Gnostic resurrection takes place while we are in the flesh,
so can such a transcendental relationship manifest while in the flesh,
even as it manifested between Mary and Jesus. However, theirs was not
an ordinary relationship in an erotic or conventional sense. There was something
mysterious and transcendent between them that the other disciples could not
understand. “The Lord loved Mary more than all the disciples
and kissed her on her mouth often. The others said to him: Why do you
love her more than all of us? The Saviour answered and said to them: Why
do I not love you like her?” (Gospel of Philip) Jesus is both asking the
other disciples about the difference between Mary Magdalen and them, and
he is questioning them as to why they are not conscious of the same relationship
of love. The kiss, according to the Gnostic Gospel of Philip,
is initiatory in character. “For it is by a kiss that the perfect conceive
and give birth. For this reason we also kiss one another.We receive
conception from the grace which is in each other.”
One of the more Gnostic lines in one of the songs in Jesus Christ
Superstar is where Mary Magdalen sings, “I don’t know how to love him.”
Admitting this question, she reveals that Jesus is not like other men,
and their relationship must transcend the ordinary sexual relationship
between man and woman. In her discovery that she cannot love him in the strictly
physical way that she knew before, she apprehends the Mystery
of the Christos. In an intuitive way she discovers the Mystery, like
Thomas, when Jesus asks the disciples, “Say who I am like,” and Thomas replies,
“My tongue can in no way tell whom thou art like.” It is this intuitive and
pneumatic perception that makes Mary more beloved than the
rest of the disciples.
In this regard, the Pistis Sophia gives one of the most declarative
statements of Mary’s importance to the Gnostic tradition.
“It came to pass then, when Mary had heard the Savior say these words,
that she gazed fixedly into the air for the space of an hour. She said:
“My Lord, give commandment unto me to speak in openness.”
And Jesus, the compassionate, answered and said unto Mary: “Mary, thou
blessed one, who I will perfect in all mysteries of those of the height,
thou, whose heart is raised to the kingdom of heaven more than all thy
brethren...for thou art blessed before all women on the earth, because
thou shalt be the fulness of all fulnesses and the perfection of all
perfections...thou who shalt be sung of as blessed in all generations...
who shall inherit the whole kingdom of the Light.”
That she gazes fixedly into the air for the space of an hour suggests
that she experiences a visionary trance or altered state of consciousness.
The Gospel of Mary describes one of her visionary experiences in more
detail:
Peter said to Mary, “Sister, we know that the Savior loved you more than
the rest of women. Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember—
which you know, but we do not know nor have we heard them.” Mary answered
and said, “What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you.” And she began
to speak to them these words: “I,” she said, “I saw the Lord in a vision
and I said to him, ‘Lord, I saw you today in a vision.’ He answered and
said to me, ‘Blessed are you, that you did not waver at the sight of me.
For where the nous is, there is the treasure.’ I said to him, ‘Lord, now
does one who sees the vision see through the soul or through the spirit?’
The Savior answered and said, ‘One does not see through the soul nor
through the spirit, but through the nous which is between the two—that
is what sees the vision...’”
The vision comes by way of a reorientation of the soul, a metanoia, a
turning about which gives rise to the nous which is something that comes
to birth between the soul and the spirit and which sees the vision. The
nous is most often translated as “mind,” yet it means something more
spiritual and subtle, more akin to “enlightened mind,” or “divine soul,” or
“awakened consciousness.” It is this reorientation of the soul which
turns the soul to the spirit and gives birth to the nous. The Exegesis on
the Soul describes such a reorientation of the soul from external things to
internal and spiritual realities.
“As long as the soul keeps running about everywhere copulating with
whomever she meets and defiling herself, she exists in suffering. But
when she perceives the straits she is in and weeps before the Father and
repents, then the Father will have mercy on her and he will make her womb
turn from the external domain and will turn it again inward, so that the
soul will regain her proper character....So when the womb of the soul by
the will of the Father, turns itself inward, it is baptised and is
immediately cleansed of the external pollution which was pressed upon it,
just as garments when dirty, are put into water and turned about until
their dirt is removed and they become clean. And so the cleansing of the
soul is to regain the newness of her former nature and to turn herself
back again.”
This reorientation of the soul towards the spirit, this new relationship between
the soul and the spirit from which the nous comes into being,
parallels the relationship between Mary Magdalen and the Savior. This
perhaps illustrates the meaning of the enigmatic line in the Gospel of Philip,
“The Sophia whom they call the barren is the mother of the angels,
and the consort of Christ is Mary Magdalen.” Even as the orientation of
the soul inward to the spirit gives birth to the nous, so Mary’s
orientation toward the Savior gives rise to her vision and understanding.
The soul, like Sophia as the mother of the angels, bears spiritual
children when she is oriented toward the spirit, as further described in
The Exegesis of the Soul:
“Thus when the soul had adorned herself again in her beauty and enjoyed
her beloved, and he also loved her. And when she had intercourse with him,
she got from him the seed that is the life-giving Spirit, so that by him
she bears good children and rears them. For this is the great, perfect
marvel of birth.”
This birth is by means of that mystic kiss described in the Gospel of
Philipby which the perfect conceive and which the Savior shares often
with Mary. This is the birth of the nous when the soul gives birth by
the life-giving Spirit.
This metaphoric sexual imagery gives rise to another hotly debated
question as to whether Mary Magdalen was actually a prostitute before
her metanoia. Whether in history she was or not is really not important
to the Gnostic perspective. The association of Mary with the story of the
repentant prostitute who after a metanoia becomes united to Christ in a
spiritual way becomes a story of the condition of the Gnostic soul in the
world and the means for its redemption. The relationship between the existential
condition of the human soul in the world and the figure of
the prostitute is made most clear in a passage again from The Exegesis of
the Soul.
“Wise men of old gave the soul a feminine name. Indeed she is female in
her nature as well. She even has a womb. As long she was alone, a single
one, with the Father, she was virgin and in form androgynous. But when
she fell down into a body and came to this life, then she fell into the
hands of many robbers. And the wanton creatures passed her from one to
another and made use of her. Some made use of her by force, while others
did so by seducing her with a gift. In short they defiled her and she
lost her virginity.
And in her body she prostituted herself and gave herself to one and
all, considering each one she was about to embrace to be her husband.
When she had given herself to wanton, unfaithful adulterers, so that
they might make use of her, then she sighed deeply and repented. But
even when she turns her face from those adulterers, she runs to others
and they compel her to live with them and render service to them upon
their bed, as if they were her masters. Out of shame she no longer dares
to leave them, whereas they deceive her for a long time, pretending to
be true and faithful husbands, as if they greatly respected her. And after
all this, they abandon her and go.”
This passage makes it clear that, as the psychic perspective would
propose that repentance and change of behavior is all that is needed,
the Gnostic knows that repentance alone is not enough for salvation and freedom,
the mystical vision and union as well must take place. There
must be a change of relationship between the soul and the spirit,
between the nous and Christ. We ourselves, even as Mary Magdalen, must
become the Beloved of the Logos.
The key to this relationship is told in the story of Jesus’ response to
the kind, loving and knowing act of a weeping woman, who anoints the feet
of her Lord, and washes them with her tears and her hair. Jesus responds
to her when questioned about her status, “Her sins, which are many, are
forgiven, for she loved much.” We can see in this story the keynote of
love and forgiveness. Mary Magdalen has been called in our liturgies,
“the pattern of our love.” The feeling tone of such love is pure
forgiveness. Someone in an exalted state of consciousness once said,
“Such forgiveness, such forgiveness, such forgiveness in the very being
of consciousness itself.” The response to such forgiveness is a gratitude
that transcends the tongue’s speech. If each of us could know what Mary
knew, that those from whom we have been sent love us with a gratitude
that we can scarcely imagine; if we knew what Mary knew, we would have
no fear of death, no fear of anything of this world, for we would know
the Beloved of our Souls.
It is such a love that casts out all fear; it is the truth that sets free.
It is a love that transcends all of our anxious attachments whether
physical, emotional, intellectual or ideational. It is where the soul
merges and rests, moves and merges and rests again with the spirit. It
is a movement and a rest, a rhythm and a dance, inwardly at rest and
outwardly moving in the world or outwardly at rest and inwardly in
motion and dynamic union, like looking at your soul in a mirror in front
of a mirror, the reflection being reflected upon and within itself for
ever and ever. The Gospel of thomas describes such an experience where
Jesus says, “When they ask you what is the sign of the Father in you,
tell them: It is a movement and a rest.”
Everything else that worldly life promises us is but a paltry substitute,
a sham, a seducing lie distracting us from the real union. The true beauty, the
true joy for which the soul, the bride of the spirit, longs is the true
Bridegroom. This Beloved never uses or abuses us, never abandons us, as do
the false and temporal promises of this world. When we have this Gnosis,
we know the Beloved in eternity, we know who we are, from whence we have
come, and whither we are going. This is the ecstasy of the union with the
Beloved, out of time, out of the limitations of flesh. Sometimes this union is
found in another in this world. Most often it is a relationship with
something transcendent, which can nonetheless deepen, transform, and give
greater meaning to our terrestrial relationships. If we have this love,
it does not matter with whom, with what gender, or how this love manifests
in our lives. However the silly dramas and romances of our lives play out,
however we may have won or lost in love, what is important is that timeless and
limitless love of the Savior, and that we recognize ourselves, like Mary,
as the Beloved of the Logos. May we find that Bridechamber of the Light,
as we take Mary Magdalen as “the pattern of our love.” Just as Jesus said
to Mary, so let it be said of us that we “loved much.”
-- Rev. Steven Marshall
http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/ecclesia/homily_MaryMagdala.htm
Stephen Morgan
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:58:22 -0500, in article
> <tep6vie...@corp.supernews.com>, "Steen wrote:
> >
> >Any disagreement with feminists is considered an attack.
>
> Feminism is defined as the theory of the political,
> economic and social equality of the sexes. A disagreement
> with a feminist is a disagreement based on whether or
> not the sexes should be treated equally.
If you choose to put the dictionary ahead of reality, yes.
> Exactly what is your disagreement?
>
> Did you know that Jesus was a feminist who loved whores
> and told his followers that he loved them more than he
> did his own disciples?
Jesus never said that.
> You can find the exact quote in the Gnostic scriptures
> that the Christian Church has attempted to suppress for
> two-thousand years.
The Christian Church has disgarded them, it has never attempted to
suppress them, as with all of the other pseudepigrapha.
> There's even a section where the church tried to change
> Christs teachings and they rewrote it so that Jesus
> appeared to say that only *men* could get into heaven,
> and that women must become men to get there.
I trust that you can provide proof of this?
> Of course, Jesus never said that, just as he never said
> half of the bullshit you and others claim he did.
>
> I can give you *exact* quotes if you are interested.
Go on then.
--
I die a Christian, according to the profession of the Church of
England, as I found it left me by my father. I needed not to have come
here, and therefore I tell you, and I pray to God it may not be laid to
your charge, that I am the Martyr of the People.
-- King Charles I, before being beheaded.
There will soon be only five Kings left: the Kings of England,
Diamonds, Hearts, Spades and Clubs.
-- King Farouk, before losing his throne.
Cheshire Fox
> 'There were three who always walked with the Lord:
> Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene,
> the one who was called his companion.
that's four, but we'll forgive that because we know you just cut-n'-pasted.
*grin*
Stephen Morgan
> "Anon" wrote:
> >
> >
> >"Chive Mynde" <chyve...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >news:9ci8t...@drn.newsguy.com...
> >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:58:22 -0500, in article
> >> <tep6vie...@corp.supernews.com>, "Steen wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Any disagreement with feminists is considered an attack.
> >>
> >> Feminism is defined as the theory of the political,
> >> economic and social equality of the sexes. A disagreement
> >> with a feminist is a disagreement based on whether or
> >> not the sexes should be treated equally.
> >>
> >> Exactly what is your disagreement?
> >>
> >> Did you know that Jesus was a feminist who loved whores
> >> and told his followers that he loved them more than he
> >> did his own disciples?
> >
> >Whoa, how do YOU know Jesus said that??? That contradicts what you've
> >written on the other thread regarding Jesus and the bible.
Because it says it in the Pseudepigraphic Gnostic Scriptures.
> Perhaps you should look up the word "contradict" in the dictionary,
> since you obviously don't know what it means.
>
> I have contradicted nothing.
>
> >Maybe somebody
> >put that in the bible and Jesus never said it at all...
>
> It was taken *out* of the bible, moron.
>
> 'There were three who always walked with the Lord:
> Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene,
> the one who was called his companion. His sister
> and his mother and his companion were each a Mary."
> Gospel of Philip
> http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/gop.html
You might want to look in the bible, because the Gospel of Philip is
considered Pseudepigrapha and false, it is not in the bible.
Thankyou, you have demonstrated a thorough knowledge of all that is
Gnostic and untrue.
Chive Mynde
That's *three* not four, but we'll forgive that because we know you
are just drunk again, as always.
1. Mary, his mother
2. And her sister
3. And Magdalene, the one who was called his [Christ's] companion.
Chive Mynde
wrote:
And, it was a direct quote.
Cheshire Fox
> >
> >> 'There were three who always walked with the Lord:
> >> Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene,
> >> the one who was called his companion.
> >
> >that's four, but we'll forgive that because we know you just
cut-n'-pasted.
>
> That's *three* not four, but we'll forgive that because we know you
> are just drunk again, as always.
don't make apologies, Onion Boy. it's four, because whoever wrote it
doesn't know how to use a comma.
> 1. Mary, his mother
> 2. And her sister
> 3. And Magdalene, the one who was called his [Christ's] companion.
yes, i understood. but it should be "Mary his mother, her sister, and
Magdalene" too many ands, as well.
*grin*
vanda
> > Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene,
> > the one who was called his companion.
>
> that's four, but we'll forgive that because we know you just
cut-n'-pasted.
Actually, I have heard that Jesus had MANY women followers.
And I also heard that the wedding at Canaan was his wedding to mary
magdalene.
(this is from masonic texts).
In the hebrew tradition, it was the duty of the groom to provide food and
drink, and that is what he did.
i have heard that the holy grail is the son of jesus and magdalene.
he was taken to europe and protected there.
and that is one of the secrets of the masons.
These are things I've read and things I've heard.
They could be wrong.
Laura!
Stephen Morgan
The Virgin Mary, Mary Magdalene and the Virgin's sister. Three.
Michael Snyder
vanda wrote in message <7OdH6.1763$c4.1...@e420r-chi1.usenetserver.com>...
Oooo, Laura, I've got a book you're gonna love...
Have you read about the supposed "Priory of Sion" conspiracy?
Check out "Holy Blood, Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent.
It's got tons of stuff about descendents of Jesus, the Templars,
the Masons, and the royal families of Europe. You don't have to
believe a word of it, it's just fascinating.
vanda
> Have you read about the supposed "Priory of Sion" conspiracy?
> Check out "Holy Blood, Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent.
> It's got tons of stuff about descendents of Jesus, the Templars,
> the Masons, and the royal families of Europe. You don't have to
> believe a word of it, it's just fascinating.
I'll check it out.
That is about what I have heard...and why the royal blood lines are royal.
It is indeed fascinating stuff.
I have a strong masonic heritage and have always held a curiosity about this
type of thing.
I believe Jesus was a witch...and surely studied the kabbalah.
And isn't the rosicrucians based on masonry?
And wasn't Aleister Crowley involved in that?
But, what I haven't figured out is, if the Templars and Masons were kind of
custodians of the grail (or do I mean arc of the covenant?), then why is
there a strong Jewish contingent amongst them?
Were you a DeMolay?
Laura!
Cheshire Fox
> >
> > > 'There were three who always walked with the Lord:
> > > Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene,
> > > the one who was called his companion.
> >
> > that's four, but we'll forgive that because we know you just
cut-n'-pasted.
>
> The Virgin Mary, Mary Magdalene and the Virgin's sister. Three.
looky-here, Christian. learn to read relevant posts before responding with
your own brand of stupidity.
i UNDERSTAND the MEANING of the sentence. that doesn't change the number of
the people named in the ORIGINAL QUOTE. the guy doesn't know how to use a
comma. nothing special, seeing as he's on the Net. MOST people on the
Internet don't know shit for grammar, spelling, or usage. annoys the PISS
out of me.
Stephen Morgan
>
> vanda wrote in message <7OdH6.1763$c4.1...@e420r-chi1.usenetserver.com>...
> >> > 'There were three who always walked with the Lord:
> >> > Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene,
> >> > the one who was called his companion.
> >>
> >> that's four, but we'll forgive that because we know you just
> >cut-n'-pasted.
> >
> >Actually, I have heard that Jesus had MANY women followers.
> >And I also heard that the wedding at Canaan was his wedding to mary
> >magdalene.
> >(this is from masonic texts).
> >In the hebrew tradition, it was the duty of the groom to provide food and
> >drink, and that is what he did.
> >i have heard that the holy grail is the son of jesus and magdalene.
> >he was taken to europe and protected there.
> >and that is one of the secrets of the masons.
> >These are things I've read and things I've heard.
> >They could be wrong.
>
> Oooo, Laura, I've got a book you're gonna love...
> Have you read about the supposed "Priory of Sion" conspiracy?
Did someone say "conspiracy"? Did someone say "Priore de Zion"? There's
a television programme about that, by the Discovery Channel.
Conspiracy, you say. I've heard of it, mostly in connection with the
survival of the Knights Templars after their dissolution and the Holy
Grail.
> Check out "Holy Blood, Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent.
The Occult Hitler by Walter Alter and The Spear of Destiny by Trevor
Ravensbrooke, too. The second one is not something I agree with and is
something that I find nuts. Whacko, insane, crazy. But it's a good read,
and has some interesting [true] parts.
> It's got tons of stuff about descendents of Jesus,
There are people who claim that various Royal Houses in Europe are the
descendants of Jesus and other that claim they are (in some cases the
same houses) destined to spawn the anti-christ. Of course, the
supporters of the anti-christ theory refer to "Burke's Peerage" as Birch
Pirrage on occasion, and the supporters of the Christ theory started up
www.queenofheaven.com, all about Princess Diana. Some of them believe,
you see, that Princess Diana was descended from James I who was
descended from Christ.
> the Templars,
I know of two Templar "hideouts", or secret chapels, that survived after
the dissolution. One is in Essex, the other is in my town (although the
guy who said so was an archaeologist who had some whacky theories about
the Freemasons and the Templars). Very interesting. Both the King of
England and the Bishop of Lincoln (owner of the Castle in my town, where
the secret "chapel" is) were sympathetic to the Templars and didn't want
to get rid of them. Three courts were set up to oversee the trials and
dissolution, one at Lincoln with the Bishop of Lincoln as Judge.
> the Masons,
King Ed. Knocked a hole in the wall. I'm very confused about that.
> and the royal families of Europe.
Sounds good.
> You don't have to
> believe a word of it, it's just fascinating.
There's nothing more interesting, to me.
Happy May Day!
Stephen Morgan
> > Oooo, Laura, I've got a book you're gonna love...
> > Have you read about the supposed "Priory of Sion" conspiracy?
> > Check out "Holy Blood, Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent.
> > It's got tons of stuff about descendents of Jesus, the Templars,
> > the Masons, and the royal families of Europe. You don't have to
> > believe a word of it, it's just fascinating.
>
> I'll check it out.
> That is about what I have heard...and why the royal blood lines are royal.
I'm a believer in the Divine Right of Kings, but I don't believe that
the Kings are actually Divine. There were Monarchies before the time of
Christ, after all.
> It is indeed fascinating stuff.
> I have a strong masonic heritage and have always held a curiosity about this
> type of thing.
My place of birth and happenstance have led me to this interest.
> I believe Jesus was a witch...and surely studied the kabbalah.
Oh dear, you're pro-Masonic, and therefore you are indirectly supporting
the devil-wroshipping aliens.
> And isn't the rosicrucians based on masonry?
They are connected with the Dero, certainly. As are the Jesuits.
> And wasn't Aleister Crowley involved in that?
Not that I know of, I'd have to look it up.
> But, what I haven't figured out is, if the Templars and Masons were kind of
> custodians of the grail (or do I mean arc of the covenant?),
The two are completely different. The neo-Templars claim to hold the
Ark, not the Grail.
> then why is
> there a strong Jewish contingent amongst them?
The Ark is a Jewish symbol, the Grail is a Christian symbol.
> Were you a DeMolay?
A what? As in Ja(c?)ques deMolay, last Grand Master of the official
Templars?
Stephen Morgan
> > > 'There were three who always walked with the Lord:
> > > Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene,
> > > the one who was called his companion.
> >
> > that's four, but we'll forgive that because we know you just
> cut-n'-pasted.
>
> Actually, I have heard that Jesus had MANY women followers.
Sounds like an overstatement to me. Certainly, though, there were some.
> And I also heard that the wedding at Canaan was his wedding to mary
> magdalene.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/980918.html
> (this is from masonic texts).
Boo.
> In the hebrew tradition, it was the duty of the groom to provide food and
> drink, and that is what he did.
> i have heard that the holy grail is the son of jesus and magdalene.
No, it is a grail that is holy. Literally a Holy Grail, no metaphor.
> he was taken to europe and protected there.
It's possible. I have heard, and I am *certainly* not proclaiming this
as fact, that St. Mary Magdalene went to France after the death of Jesus
Christ pregnant with Jesus' child, a son I believe, and that their
descendants eventually founded the Merovingian dynasty. A further
extension of this theory seems to be that the Stuart dynasty and
the late Princess Diana were descendants of Christ. That they are
rightful Royalty and were killed by (get this) the Asiatic/Mongol House
of Windsor. Still, it could be worse: some think that the House of
Windsor are all aliens. Still, I find the theory intrigueing and think
it is either the truth or the exact opposite of the truth. These things
confuse me sometimes.
> and that is one of the secrets of the masons.
No, the Masons are bad guys and have been at least since they were
infiltrated by the Illuminists, probably earlier.
> These are things I've read and things I've heard.
> They could be wrong.
Of course.
Stephen Morgan
> "Anon" wrote:
> >
> >
> >"Chive Mynde" <chyve...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >news:9ci8t...@drn.newsguy.com...
> >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:58:22 -0500, in article
> >> <tep6vie...@corp.supernews.com>, "Steen wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Any disagreement with feminists is considered an attack.
> >>
> >> Feminism is defined as the theory of the political,
> >> economic and social equality of the sexes. A disagreement
> >> with a feminist is a disagreement based on whether or
> >> not the sexes should be treated equally.
> >>
> >> Exactly what is your disagreement?
> >>
> >> Did you know that Jesus was a feminist who loved whores
> >> and told his followers that he loved them more than he
> >> did his own disciples?
> >
> >Whoa, how do YOU know Jesus said that??? That contradicts what you've
> >written on the other thread regarding Jesus and the bible.
>
> Perhaps you should look up the word "contradict" in the dictionary,
> since you obviously don't know what it means.
>
> I have contradicted nothing.
>
> >Maybe somebody
> >put that in the bible and Jesus never said it at all...
>
> It was taken *out* of the bible, moron.
The trouble being that this is a lie, the Gospel of Philip was *never*
in the Bible.
GodHimself
<SwpH6.5777$R2.39...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> that:
Is that book even still in print? I haven't seen it on bookshelves in a
long, long time.
vanda
>
> Oh dear, you're pro-Masonic, and therefore you are indirectly supporting
> the devil-wroshipping aliens.
Oh dear, what shall I do now??? <giggle>
> > And isn't the rosicrucians based on masonry?
>
> They are connected with the Dero, certainly. As are the Jesuits.
The Jesuits are cloaked in much mystery. They founded Georgetown
University, which is near where I grew up...Mt.Rainier, MD, where the
exorcist actually occurred. Blatty was a student at Georgetown at the time
it happened. And Georgetown was a better setting for the movie. The priest
who did the exorcision died about 15 years ago, and everyone in Mt. Rainier
went to the funeral ('cept me, not catholic). But, it was the only time the
exorcision was mentioned since he performed it. Funny that.
> > And wasn't Aleister Crowley involved in that?
>
> Not that I know of, I'd have to look it up.
Golden Dawn? Isn't that of a masonic nature?
> > But, what I haven't figured out is, if the Templars and Masons were kind
of
> > custodians of the grail (or do I mean arc of the covenant?),
>
> The two are completely different. The neo-Templars claim to hold the
> Ark, not the Grail.
No wonder I was confused.
> > then why is
> > there a strong Jewish contingent amongst them?
>
> The Ark is a Jewish symbol, the Grail is a Christian symbol.
Ah, thank you for explaining.
> > Were you a DeMolay?
>
> A what? As in Ja(c?)ques deMolay, last Grand Master of the official
> Templars?
Oui oui...Jacques himself. DeMolay is an organisation for young men (boys)
who will probably join the Masons when they grow up...
Jacques was burned at the stake.
Laura!
vanda
> http://www.straightdope.com/columns/980918.html
DAMN I miss the CityPaper!!
Living in a podunk town will do that to a person.
Laura!
David Honigsberg
> Have you read about the supposed "Priory of Sion" conspiracy?
> Check out "Holy Blood, Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent.
> It's got tons of stuff about descendents of Jesus, the Templars,
> the Masons, and the royal families of Europe. You don't have to
> believe a word of it, it's just fascinating.
It's hard to believe much of it; the research is very poor and very shallow.
While I, personally, hold that Jesus was probably married, they take it WAY
too far.
Rabbi Honigsberg
David Honigsberg
>
> >Maybe somebody
> >put that in the bible and Jesus never said it at all...
>
> It was taken *out* of the bible, moron.
Be that as it may, Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute, according to the
strictest reading of the texts. There was an excellent article some time
ago in Bible Review which showed how, over time, the aspect of the
prostitute mentioned in the gospels. The word "prostitute" doesn't even
appear in the gospels.
Rabbi Honigsberg
vanda
"David Honigsberg" <dhoni...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:O_LH6.544$Cq3....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Tell me if I'm wrong...but isn't there a something called the 'Halaha' (how
it is pronounced, don't know how to spell it) and according to this, as a
Jewish male you are obligate to reproduce?
Laura!
David Honigsberg
> Tell me if I'm wrong...but isn't there a something called the 'Halaha'
(how
> it is pronounced, don't know how to spell it) and according to this, as a
> Jewish male you are obligate to reproduce?
The word is "halacha" (the "ch" is pronounced like the German word "ach"),
which denotes the various laws that are given in the Talmud. That's
different (and in addition) to the mitzvot (commandments) given in the
Torah. The very first commandment is "be fruitful and multiply" so, yes,
there is an obligation, most certainly.
However, there are great rabbis who did NOT get married but were held in
very high esteem. Was Jesus one of them? Tough call, and it's difficult to
make the argument based on negative evidence. I think that there's a good
possibility that he WAS married; but I also don't think it'll ever be proven
for certain one way or the other.
Rabbi Honigsberg
Stephen Morgan
> .
> >
> > Oh dear, you're pro-Masonic, and therefore you are indirectly supporting
> > the devil-wroshipping aliens.
>
> Oh dear, what shall I do now??? <giggle>
Go and climb the Black Mountain near Cooktown, Australia.
> > > And isn't the rosicrucians based on masonry?
> >
> > They are connected with the Dero, certainly. As are the Jesuits.
>
> The Jesuits are cloaked in much mystery. They founded Georgetown
> University, which is near where I grew up...Mt.Rainier, MD, where the
> exorcist actually occurred. Blatty was a student at Georgetown at the time
> it happened. And Georgetown was a better setting for the movie. The priest
> who did the exorcision died about 15 years ago, and everyone in Mt. Rainier
> went to the funeral ('cept me, not catholic). But, it was the only time the
> exorcision was mentioned since he performed it. Funny that.
And people call me whacky.
> > > And wasn't Aleister Crowley involved in that?
> >
> > Not that I know of, I'd have to look it up.
>
> Golden Dawn? Isn't that of a masonic nature?
I dunno, I'd have to look it up.
> > > But, what I haven't figured out is, if the Templars and Masons were kind
> of
> > > custodians of the grail (or do I mean arc of the covenant?),
> >
> > The two are completely different. The neo-Templars claim to hold the
> > Ark, not the Grail.
>
> No wonder I was confused.
Actually, they claim to hold five different [identical] Arks of the
covenant. All of them as ancient power sources. The legends go that the
Ark is in Ethiopia and the Grail in Glastonbury, England.
> > > then why is
> > > there a strong Jewish contingent amongst them?
> >
> > The Ark is a Jewish symbol, the Grail is a Christian symbol.
>
> Ah, thank you for explaining.
Noproblem.
> > > Were you a DeMolay?
> >
> > A what? As in Ja(c?)ques deMolay, last Grand Master of the official
> > Templars?
>
> Oui oui...Jacques himself.
And people say that you can't learn anything from computer games.
> DeMolay is an organisation for young men (boys)
> who will probably join the Masons when they grow up...
Yes.
> Jacques was burned at the stake.
Yes. King Edward VII was Grand Master of the Freemasons and before that
the GM of the Templars within the Freemasons. He came to my town (in
1909, I believe) on his way to a nearby countryside function (near
Belvior (pronounced Beaver), I believe). He stopped to take a tour of
the castle (with the secret Templar temple) and signed the guestbook. It
seems that the tour included the cellars (where the secret temple is).
One of the two cellar rooms (both were used by the Templars) was used as
a room for storing ice, so the walls were bricked over, leaving a small
gap between the inner (brick) and outer (stone) walls. Now... after he
visited, there was a (deliberately smashed) hole in the brick to the
stone below, about 2 or 3 feet wide, one foot high, centred on what it
was obviously meant to reveal: an alcove in the wall, cubic and ~7
centimetres in height/width/depth, with crosses (of the Templar
variation) on either side, all carved into a single yellow stone just
under two feet in width, under one in height. The stone was clearly out
of place, the surrounding wall was completely different. The crosses
showed traces of red pigment and the alcove had an indentation in the
bottom that seemed to be meant to hold something (candle?) and burn
marks above the alcove. The other room is more interesting.
vanda
"Stephen Morgan" <ncav...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
news:slrn9euc90....@wildcard.ntl.com...
> > Oh dear, what shall I do now??? <giggle>
>
> Go and climb the Black Mountain near Cooktown, Australia.
Sure, care to go with me?
> And people call me whacky.
<smile> You are...gee, but what does that say bout me?
> Actually, they claim to hold five different [identical] Arks of the
> covenant. All of them as ancient power sources. The legends go that the
> Ark is in Ethiopia and the Grail in Glastonbury, England.
ARGH!!
Can't they be happy with just one?
> And people say that you can't learn anything from computer games.
Hmm, what computer game was that?
Some are fun, but I don't seem to have much time when I'm on my puter for
anything but NGs, Illustrator, and Photoshop.
A little bit of surfing.
> Yes. King Edward VII was Grand Master of the Freemasons and before that
> the GM of the Templars within the Freemasons. He came to my town
Which town is that?
You aren't still there though, you have a 'crosswinds' email address.
(in
> 1909, I believe) on his way to a nearby countryside function (near
> Belvior (pronounced Beaver), I believe). He stopped to take a tour of
> the castle (with the secret Templar temple) and signed the guestbook. It
> seems that the tour included the cellars (where the secret temple is).
> One of the two cellar rooms (both were used by the Templars) was used as
> a room for storing ice, so the walls were bricked over, leaving a small
> gap between the inner (brick) and outer (stone) walls. Now... after he
> visited, there was a (deliberately smashed) hole in the brick to the
> stone below, about 2 or 3 feet wide, one foot high, centred on what it
> was obviously meant to reveal: an alcove in the wall, cubic and ~7
> centimetres in height/width/depth, with crosses (of the Templar
> variation) on either side, all carved into a single yellow stone just
> under two feet in width, under one in height. The stone was clearly out
> of place, the surrounding wall was completely different. The crosses
> showed traces of red pigment and the alcove had an indentation in the
> bottom that seemed to be meant to hold something (candle?) and burn
> marks above the alcove. The other room is more interesting.'
Why was the other room more interesting?
I think what you have described of the first one is quite mysterious.
Laura!
vanda
> very high esteem. Was Jesus one of them? Tough call, and it's difficult
to
> make the argument based on negative evidence. I think that there's a good
> possibility that he WAS married; but I also don't think it'll ever be
proven
> for certain one way or the other.
That is true.
And usually the lack of ability to prove anything simply ends the
exploration.
Sometimes...
Laura!
Stephen Morgan
>
> "Stephen Morgan" <ncav...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
> news:slrn9euc90....@wildcard.ntl.com...
>
>
> > > Oh dear, what shall I do now??? <giggle>
> >
> > Go and climb the Black Mountain near Cooktown, Australia.
>
> Sure, care to go with me?
No, I'm scared of eight-foot long snakes. Especially the eight-foot long
ones. And the eight-foot tall, armour-plated, inter-stellar ones. They
have both kinds there.
AUSTRALIA, COOKTOWN - South of Cooktown, North Queensland is
the 1000 foot tall "Black Mountain", appearing as a huge pile
of dark boulders 2 miles long. Natives avoid the mountain, as
well as birds and other animals. 3 men with horses vanished
years ago at the mountain, where chasms of unsounded depth
penetrate the mountain. Also known by the aborigine's as
"Kalcajagga", two young men intent on solving earlier
disappearances vanished, as well as 2 black trackers who tried
to find them. The first "recorded" disappearance was that of
a carrier named Grayner who disappeared along with his horse
and bullocks. 13 years later a Constable Ryan disappeared
after tracking a wanted man to the base of the mountain, and
neither were ever seen again. Then a gold prospector named
Renn vanished and could not be found by police teams who
combed the area for weeks. Harry Owens, a station owner from
Oakley Creek, disappeared at the mountain while searching for
stray cattle, as did his parter George Hawkins who went to
search for him after alerting police. Two police trackers
entered the caves but only one came out, and he was so shaken
by an experience that terrified him so much that he could
give no clear account of what happened. One man armed with a
revolver and electric torch penetrated the caves, one of
which descended and narrowed, and deep within he encountered
bats and a sickly, musty stench, then his torch went out. He
crawled for 5 hours through stench-filled caverns,
encountering deep precipices and black chambers, until he saw
a distant light which he climbed towards, until he reached
the surface. source: INFO JOURNAL, Vol.4, No.2; WALKABOUT
[Sydney, Australia], June 1972; COOKTOWN AUSTRALIA; BLACK
MOUNTAIN AUSTRALIA
-- Branton: The Redbook.
So, it's really not my kind of place.
> > And people call me whacky.
>
> <smile> You are...gee, but what does that say bout me?
You're nuts.
> > Actually, they claim to hold five different [identical] Arks of the
> > covenant. All of them as ancient power sources. The legends go that the
> > Ark is in Ethiopia and the Grail in Glastonbury, England.
>
> ARGH!!
> Can't they be happy with just one?
Why have one when you can have *five*? Apparently they found one under
the floor of the temple in Jerusalem during the First Crusade. IIRC.
> > And people say that you can't learn anything from computer games.
>
> Hmm, what computer game was that?
Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars. I think it was called Broken
Sword: Circle of Blood that side of the Atlantic. Best computer game
ever, closely followed by the sequel: Broken Sword II: The Smoking
Mirror, in reference to Tezcatlipoca. Both were good but the first was
better. The second had more humourous quotations, though. In the first
one it took me over a year to figure out how to get the toilet brush
from the Syrian open-air cook who was using it to baste kebabs. That's
three months *after* consulting the walkthrough. I gave up actually,
when I had it on the PlayStation and resumed my attempts on the PC. It
turns out that you have to give the little red ball (or was it the
clown's nose retrieved from the Parisian sewer after chasing the clown
who blew up the Cafe de la Chandelle Verte?) to the Syrian boy who was
learning English from episodes of The Saint so that he would distract
the cook. Great game. A product of Revolution Software Inc., distributed
(here) by Sold Out, neither of whom I have any connection to whatsoever.
But they make (and distribute) very good games, going by the two
(Revolution, three or more Sold Out) that I have played.
> Some are fun, but I don't seem to have much time when I'm on my puter for
> anything but NGs, Illustrator, and Photoshop.
> A little bit of surfing.
Why so much with Illustrator and Photoshop? I spend my computer time
using NGs, learning computer programming and researching the Dero/Tero.
> > Yes. King Edward VII was Grand Master of the Freemasons and before that
> > the GM of the Templars within the Freemasons. He came to my town
>
> Which town is that?
Newark-on-Trent, England. Near East Stoke (see East Stoke, Battle of).
> You aren't still there though,
I am.
> you have a 'crosswinds' email address.
You can use crosswinds anywhere in the world. My ISP e-mail account
isn't very reliable (or wasn't when I last checked). I use my ISP for
newsgroups, though. ntl:, it's a cable company.
> > (in
> > 1909, I believe) on his way to a nearby countryside function (near
> > Belvior (pronounced Beaver), I believe). He stopped to take a tour of
> > the castle (with the secret Templar temple) and signed the guestbook. It
> > seems that the tour included the cellars (where the secret temple is).
> > One of the two cellar rooms (both were used by the Templars) was used as
> > a room for storing ice, so the walls were bricked over, leaving a small
> > gap between the inner (brick) and outer (stone) walls. Now... after he
> > visited, there was a (deliberately smashed) hole in the brick to the
> > stone below, about 2 or 3 feet wide, one foot high, centred on what it
> > was obviously meant to reveal:
So, someone (King Ed) obviously knew where it was. And what it was, and
what important it had. I wish I did.
> > an alcove in the wall, cubic and ~7
> > centimetres in height/width/depth, with crosses (of the Templar
> > variation) on either side, all carved into a single yellow stone just
> > under two feet in width, under one in height. The stone was clearly out
> > of place, the surrounding wall was completely different. The crosses
> > showed traces of red pigment and the alcove had an indentation in the
> > bottom that seemed to be meant to hold something (candle?) and burn
> > marks above the alcove. The other room is more interesting.'
>
> Why was the other room more interesting?
Well, it *seemed* more interesting. Largely due to the acoustics. The
historian commented on the fact that there was a curious reverberation
for very tall people in the room (which is almost bottle-dungeon in
shape) leading him to believe that some odd niches in the walls were
meant to support a floor, wooden and raised from the stone below. There
are small pieces of metal (meant to attach something) in the back of the
niches. They are about three feet(ish) from the (rather uneven, stone)
floor of the chamber. There are no bricks on the wall, just the stone.
There are two more, smaller, niches in the wall (about a foot above the
other niches, the floor supporters(?)). These two are about a metre or
so apart, big enough for me to get my hand into up to the wrist, but my
hand touched the sides the whole time, when I inserted my hand upto the
wrist my fingers touched the back. The only other thing that immediately
comes to mind is the once of most interest, or five of the most
interest, as the case may be. Directly even with the top of the two
aforementioned niches were five more niches positioned in an arc. These
were each perhaps ten or twelve centimetres in each dimension, more or
less cubic, in the same yellow stone as the niche in the other room.
These yellow stones were also out of place in the surrounding stone (all
grey) but, unlike the other, were completely featureless but for the
niches. The niches which are in good enough condition (the others have
been worn and eroded) can be seen to have had crosses carved into the
back and all are badly worn on the bottom and have scorch marks above
the niche and on the above stones. One, I seem to recall had red pigment
on the cross. They were at quite a good height to kneel, if there was a
raised floor, about four feet from the stone floor perhaps two, rather
than one, from the supposed raised floor. The two niches are below the
furthest to the right in the arc of five niches. The five niches'
positioning is of interest also. They are not equidistant, but their
average distance from each other is circa two yards. It varies, if I
recall correctly, from one point eight to two point one yards (perhaps
metres) and a line from the furthermost right to furthermost left while
facing the centre niche would be almost exactly magnetic north to south
(not true, magnetic, not true) at the time it would have commenced, and
is only very few degrees out now. The room's walls are curved, circular
room, there are, as I said, five niches, they arc from the northerlymost
point on the wall to southerlymost, via the west (I think, but maybe the
east). There was, at one point, a Templar preceptory in Newark. There
were five in Lincolnshire, only four miles from here. One was in Temple
Bruer, where my grandfather spent some of his childhood years, a very
small village. Five preceptories, five niches with indications of
candles and worship. Hmm, thinks I.
This second room was used in the eighteenth century to move ice from the
first room to boats on the river.
> I think what you have described of the first one is quite mysterious.
As with anything 900 years old, you really have to be inside it to
appreciate it. Apparently it was used as a temple by the Templars right
up until the Civil Wars, long after the Castle had passed into the hands
of the Royalty (as opposed to the Bishop of Lincoln). I believe,
although I may be mistaken, that it was rented to the Duke of Newcastle.
The Duke of Newcastle owned enough property in the town to own a Seat in
the early nineteenth century. Most of the Castle was destroyed at the
end of the Third Siege by the Parliamentarians. Luckily the North-wall,
most of the Gate House, the NW, NE and N towers and the dungeons and
undercroft are still intact. Due to business developments in the
eighteenth and nineteenth centuries archaeology has produced nothing on
the site but an Anglo-Saxon burial site. Nothing on the site now but the
Castle and the Gilstrap Free Library.
Excerpted from "LONDON to LEEDS (from Joseph Ballards "England in 1815")
16th (May), 1815":
At Newark we saw the ruins of the castle of that name, which was
destroyed by Oliver Cromwell in the civil war. The battlements
were many of them entire, and the moon shining upon them added
very much to their romantic appearance.
The rest (all but the above quote) of my information comes from White's
Directory of Nottinghamshire 1853, A History of Newark [Volumes I & II]
by Cornelius Brown, the articles and books of Tim Warner and a peculiar
historian, formerly caretaker(?) of the Castle, now an employee of
British Rail. Most of this information comes from the historian.
Alderman (later Governor) Hercules Clay had a prophetic experience, too.
That the roundheads would burn his house down with a cannonball from
Beacon Hill. Acting upon the third of these dreams he took his family
from the house, after which a cannonball from Beacon Hill passed through
every floor of his house and set it alight. He left money to the poor
and for an annual service at St. Mary Magdalene's Church in the
marketplace that is performed to this day.
Mr. Hercules Clay was a mercer, residing at the south-west
corner of the Market Place, at the junction with Stodman Street.
He was elected Mayor in 1644, and died during his year of office,
January Ist, 1645. Dickinson says " There is a curious traditional
story of a very extraordinary deliverance of Alderman Hercules
Clay and his family, by a dream. By his will he gave the sum of
£200 to the Corporation in trust, to pay the interest of £100 to
the Vicar of Newark for a sermon to be preached on the 11th of
March annually, the day on which the event happened ; and the
other to be given in bread to the poor on the same day. This is
understood to be in commemoration of the extraordinary deliverance.
The preacher constantly introduces this subject and the dreams
recorded of the ancients are not forgotten." In a plan of the
fortifications is shown "the supposed course of the bomb that
being pointed at the Governor's house, fell on Alderman Hercules
Clay's, from which his personal and memorable deliverance by a
dream is perpetuated by an annual sermon and alms of his own
donation as a Latin inscription on his marble tomb in the south
east angle of the church amply testifies." His will copied in the
Corporation Minute Book is as follows :-
In the name of God Amen. I, Hercules Clay, of
Newark-upon-Trent, in the county of Nottingham, mercer, being weak
and bad, but perfect in sense and memory, do make and ordain by
the providence of Almighty God, this my last will and testament in
manner and form following: First I give and bequeath my soul unto
the hands of Almighty God, my faithful Creator and Redeemer,
trusting in the merits of His Beloved Son, my dear Saviour Jesus
Christ, to obtain the full redemption of my sins and the eternal
salvation of my soul. For my body I desire it may be laid at the
east end of the Church by my first wife, under the stone which I
purposely laid there for the same end.
-- Page 227, CHAPTER XI.-THE CHARITIES, A History of Newark-on-Trent
Volume II, by Cornelius Brown, published 1907, ISBN VOL. II 0 900943 72
X, ISBN SET 0 900 943 70 X
That'll do. His will continues to discuss his posessions. Once you get
me started I tend to ramble.
Ah, right, dungeons.
Last thing for now, here's what I had to say about it on the day:
The first dungeon has a smooth, brick floor and walls. The floor slopes
inwards toward a drain, it was used as an ice room. It was nearly bottle
dungeon shaped. The most interesting feature was a hole that had been
knocked in the brick wall to the stone wall behind, revealing a cubic
crevice (I believe the man called it a niche), about one palm in width,
height and depth. It was in yellow stone foreign to the wall surrounding
it, and the hole in the brick was the only flaw in the brickwork,
obviously someone had gone in their knowing to within a few inches where
to look for it. The niche had a cross in the rock on either side of said
niche and the yellow stone at the top of the niche was scorched, by
flame rather than smoke by my reckoning. I wonder if there were more
behind the brickwork. Obviously someone had wanted it revealed, but I
can't figure out why. Only the niche was properly revealed, the crosses
on either side were still partially covered, and as it was covered less
than two centuries ago by people who would have nicked off with anything
obviously of value, I doubt it was a hiding place for anything. The next
dungeon was even more intrigueing. There were five of the yellow stone
carvings around the room, the same number as there were Templar
preceptories in Lincolnshire, but we'll come back to that. These
carvings were different. The were squares rather than rectangles of
yellow stone, also foreign to the surrounding wall. Those on either edge
are almost exactly north-south, and given the non-fixed nature of
magnetic north, they could well have been exactly north-south by compass
six hundred years ago.
There was a trace of red pigment in the back of one of the
crosses. [I thought so.] We'll get to Edward VII and the
Templars later, though. I'll just go over my material impressions. The
place had an uneven floor and walls. I felt the yellow stone and it had
the approximate consistency of chalk, in my opinion, but without the
useful purpose of drawing with it as none came off on my hands. The
guide remarked on a curious acoustic property of the room. A resonance,
by my reckoning, but I am probably not tall enough to recognise or cause
the appropriate effect. The floor seems to have been damaged and is
several inches lower now. There were several, four I seem to think,
holes in the wall large enough to support a sturdy wooden beam. They
contained metal in the back, just small strips. There were two smaller
ones beneath, although slightly off centre of, the cross second from the
right, the best preserved in my opinion. I put my hand into it and it
was regular, although rough at the rear, and was large enough to get my
hands into upto the wrist, and while it was not a
particularly tight squeeze I could at all time feel the stone on my
hand. The crosses features the same curious scorching. I felt the cross,
the best preserved, to see if there was an appropriate orifice for a
candle or similar. There wasn't, but the niches could have easily
contained a candle on their flat bottoms. A thick short one. Apparently
it was similar to a secret Templar temple from after the dissolution of
the Order that was found in Essex.
[In a cave, he said.]
Now onto the Templars and King Edward
the Seventh. Temple Bruer was a Templar Preceptory. When the Knights
Templar were dissolved by the Catholics, on orders of the Pope, who was
on orders from the King of France, Philip le Bel, or Philip the Fair, on
charges of everything from Heresy to worship of an idol, the king of
England was reluctant, but eventually succumbed. The guide mentioned the
"trace of red pigment", while gesturing to the southernmost cross,
did I mention that in the
second dungeon the crosses were in the back of the niches? Then the
guide introduced his hypothesis of - I think he was American, Scottish
or something - the purpose and origin of the crosses,
which I shall now at least partially relate. When the Chivalric Order of
the Knights of the Temple Mount, or the Templars, were dissolved the
King of England created three courts to see to their trials and
convictions. One in York, one in London and one in Lincoln, about
fifteen miles ENE of here. In fact, the Bishop of Lincoln, who was the
owner and creator of the Castle here in Newark, where these dungeons
are, was the somewhat reluctant head of the Court at Lincoln. He didn't
want to do it, so the hypothesis is that he gave these rooms to the
Templars. The Templars and freemasons flourished, however, in Scotland,
where they weren't shut down by the monarchy and church. In fact, James
I of England, James VI of Scotland, the first Stuart monarch of England
was the Grand Master of the Templars in Scotland. He passed through
Newark and while here sentenced a cut-purse, a pick-pocket, to death
without trial, the last time a monarch of this nation did so, while
here. Edward VII came to Newark, intending, apparently, to pass through
to an occasion nearby, but as his car passed the castle he ordered it to
stop and jumped out, asking the groundskeeper to give him a tour of the
castle. All we know for certain is that this happened and that he signed
the castle guestbook. And that the town Mayor and Aldermen took the
guestbook for only tuppence, the original cost of the book before the
King of England and the British Empire, the most powerful man alive, had
signed it. This, supposedly caused the groundskeeper to have a nervous
breakdown and kill himself two years later. The King was Grand
Master of the Freemasons, and prior to that Grand Master of the Templars
before he became King and created a seperate office for himself within
the masons when he became King.
vanda
> ones. And the eight-foot tall, armour-plated, inter-stellar ones. They
> have both kinds there.
Oh, I was bitten by an 8 foot long snake.
Seriously!
I'm not afraid of snakes though.
It is that damn tunnel web spider!
We could avoid the cave?
Queensland? That is where the crocodile hunter is.
> You're nuts.
Must be a cashew then!
> Why have one when you can have *five*? Apparently they found one under
> the floor of the temple in Jerusalem during the First Crusade. IIRC.
Because that simply sounds unbelievable.
> > Hmm, what computer game was that?
>
> Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars. I think it was called Broken
> Sword: Circle of Blood that side of the Atlantic. Best computer game
> ever, closely followed by the sequel: Broken Sword II: The Smoking
> Mirror, in reference to Tezcatlipoca. Both were good but the first was
> better. The second had more humourous quotations, though. In the first
> one it took me over a year to figure out how to get the toilet brush
> from the Syrian open-air cook who was using it to baste kebabs. That's
> three months *after* consulting the walkthrough. I gave up actually,
> when I had it on the PlayStation and resumed my attempts on the PC. It
> turns out that you have to give the little red ball (or was it the
> clown's nose retrieved from the Parisian sewer after chasing the clown
> who blew up the Cafe de la Chandelle Verte?) to the Syrian boy who was
> learning English from episodes of The Saint so that he would distract
> the cook. Great game. A product of Revolution Software Inc., distributed
> (here) by Sold Out, neither of whom I have any connection to whatsoever.
> But they make (and distribute) very good games, going by the two
> (Revolution, three or more Sold Out) that I have played.
Oh, I love those kind of games.
I was playing (don't laugh) Carmen Sandiego, and can't figure out how to get
past the scene with the plumbing problem.
> > Some are fun, but I don't seem to have much time when I'm on my puter
for
> > anything but NGs, Illustrator, and Photoshop.
> > A little bit of surfing.
>
> Why so much with Illustrator and Photoshop? I spend my computer time
> using NGs, learning computer programming and researching the Dero/Tero.
Graphic Artist I am.
I want to learn more about programming...but my time is so limited now.
I like the underpinnings of how things work, rather than just working them.
That is why I am a PC person from way back, but Windows is just as bad as
Mac now. Worse? But I'm still a PC person.
> > > Yes. King Edward VII was Grand Master of the Freemasons and before
that
> > > the GM of the Templars within the Freemasons. He came to my town
> >
> > Which town is that?
>
> Newark-on-Trent, England. Near East Stoke (see East Stoke, Battle of).
>
> > You aren't still there though,
Ah, north of london.
> I am.
> > you have a 'crosswinds' email address.
>
> You can use crosswinds anywhere in the world. My ISP e-mail account
> isn't very reliable (or wasn't when I last checked). I use my ISP for
> newsgroups, though. ntl:, it's a cable company.
Oh, okay.
I did not know that.
The east is where the Worshipful Master in the masons sits.
The G, I believe stands for geometry.
The five points sound almost like star points.
I miss being able to visit cool historical places.
I do have the water nearby.
I would love to go to this room...I would love to feel it.
> This second room was used in the eighteenth century to move ice from the
> first room to boats on the river.
>
> > I think what you have described of the first one is quite mysterious.
>
> As with anything 900 years old, you really have to be inside it to
> appreciate it. Apparently it was used as a temple by the Templars right
> up until the Civil Wars, long after the Castle had passed into the hands
> of the Royalty (as opposed to the Bishop of Lincoln). I believe,
> although I may be mistaken, that it was rented to the Duke of Newcastle.
> The Duke of Newcastle owned enough property in the town to own a Seat in
> the early nineteenth century. Most of the Castle was destroyed at the
> end of the Third Siege by the Parliamentarians. Luckily the North-wall,
> most of the Gate House, the NW, NE and N towers and the dungeons and
> undercroft are still intact. Due to business developments in the
> eighteenth and nineteenth centuries archaeology has produced nothing on
> the site but an Anglo-Saxon burial site. Nothing on the site now but the
> Castle and the Gilstrap Free Library.
Yes, you can't appreciate so well from pictures.
You really know alot about this place and your town.
> Excerpted from "LONDON to LEEDS (from Joseph Ballards "England in 1815")
> 16th (May), 1815":
> Alderman (later Governor) Hercules Clay had a prophetic experience, too.
> That the roundheads would burn his house down with a cannonball from
> Beacon Hill. Acting upon the third of these dreams he took his family
> from the house, after which a cannonball from Beacon Hill passed through
> every floor of his house and set it alight. He left money to the poor
> and for an annual service at St. Mary Magdalene's Church in the
> marketplace that is performed to this day.
> That'll do. His will continues to discuss his posessions. Once you get
> me started I tend to ramble.
S'okay, I enjoy reading.
Quite a gorey lot, wouldn't you say?
You know the masons take a vow to slit the throat from left to right of
anyone who divulges the secrets?
Laura!
David Honigsberg
> > possibility that he WAS married; but I also don't think it'll ever be
> proven
> > for certain one way or the other.
>
> That is true.
> And usually the lack of ability to prove anything simply ends the
> exploration.
> Sometimes...
Or it leads to people taking the smallest scraps of evidence and blowing
them up to be much larger than they should be in order to prove their point,
no matter how much quicksand they seem to be treading in.
Rabbi Honigsberg
David Honigsberg
> > > Ark, not the Grail.
> >
> > No wonder I was confused.
>
> Actually, they claim to hold five different [identical] Arks of the
> covenant. All of them as ancient power sources. The legends go that the
> Ark is in Ethiopia and the Grail in Glastonbury, England.
If you're interested in another (fictional) take on how the Templars got the
ark, pick up the anthology ON CRUSADE: MORE TALES OF THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR,
edited by Katherine Kurtz. There you'll find a story I wrote with my wife,
Alexandra Honigsberg, called "Borne on a River of Tears." It's a fun read,
if I dare say so myself.
Rabbi Honigsberg
ren
First she washed his feet and then she.. well I think you would sell
more Bibles if you went into detail about it. He, he. >:)
Cheshire Fox
> > That is true.
> > And usually the lack of ability to prove anything simply ends the
> > exploration.
> > Sometimes...
>
> Or it leads to people taking the smallest scraps of evidence and blowing
> them up to be much larger than they should be in order to prove their
point,
> no matter how much quicksand they seem to be treading in.
like Chive. and Rhyanon.
*grin*
Stephen Morgan
> > No, I'm scared of eight-foot long snakes. Especially the eight-foot long
> > ones. And the eight-foot tall, armour-plated, inter-stellar ones. They
> > have both kinds there.
>
> Oh, I was bitten by an 8 foot long snake.
> Seriously!
Scary.
> I'm not afraid of snakes though.
Scary.
> It is that damn tunnel web spider!
Scarier.
Do you think that Grayner, the bullock herd, and the rest went into the
cave?
> Queensland? That is where the crocodile hunter is.
Crocodile hunter?
> > You're nuts.
>
> Must be a cashew then!
No, Brazil Nuts.
> > Why have one when you can have *five*? Apparently they found one under
> > the floor of the temple in Jerusalem during the First Crusade. IIRC.
>
> Because that simply sounds unbelievable.
Blame the Templar guy with the blury face. One is apparently in a
recreation of the First Temple in Scotland.
> > > Hmm, what computer game was that?
> >
> > Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars. I think it was called Broken
> > Sword: Circle of Blood that side of the Atlantic. Best computer game
> > ever, closely followed by the sequel: Broken Sword II: The Smoking
> > Mirror, in reference to Tezcatlipoca. Both were good but the first was
> > better. The second had more humourous quotations, though. In the first
> > one it took me over a year to figure out how to get the toilet brush
> > from the Syrian open-air cook who was using it to baste kebabs. That's
> > three months *after* consulting the walkthrough. I gave up actually,
> > when I had it on the PlayStation and resumed my attempts on the PC. It
> > turns out that you have to give the little red ball (or was it the
> > clown's nose retrieved from the Parisian sewer after chasing the clown
> > who blew up the Cafe de la Chandelle Verte?) to the Syrian boy who was
> > learning English from episodes of The Saint so that he would distract
> > the cook. Great game. A product of Revolution Software Inc., distributed
> > (here) by Sold Out, neither of whom I have any connection to whatsoever.
> > But they make (and distribute) very good games, going by the two
> > (Revolution, three or more Sold Out) that I have played.
>
> Oh, I love those kind of games.
Point. Click.
> I was playing (don't laugh) Carmen Sandiego, and can't figure out how to get
> past the scene with the plumbing problem.
I used to watch the cartoon. That was a few years ago. On Channel 4 at
8:50 am on Sundays.
> > > Some are fun, but I don't seem to have much time when I'm on my puter
> for
> > > anything but NGs, Illustrator, and Photoshop.
> > > A little bit of surfing.
> >
> > Why so much with Illustrator and Photoshop? I spend my computer time
> > using NGs, learning computer programming and researching the Dero/Tero.
>
> Graphic Artist I am.
> I want to learn more about programming...but my time is so limited now.
> I like the underpinnings of how things work, rather than just working them.
> That is why I am a PC person from way back, but Windows is just as bad as
> Mac now. Worse? But I'm still a PC person.
There are alternatives. There's always Solaris, BeOS, OS/2, BSD,
Linux... I use Slackware Linux. On a Windows box you'd want BigSlack or
ZipSlack. Linux is a command-line OS, though. If you need to stay with
Windows, I recommend CygWin (http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin IIRC).
> > > > Yes. King Edward VII was Grand Master of the Freemasons and before
> that
> > > > the GM of the Templars within the Freemasons. He came to my town
> > >
> > > Which town is that?
> >
> > Newark-on-Trent, England. Near East Stoke (see East Stoke, Battle of).
> >
> > > You aren't still there though,
>
> Ah, north of london.
Over an hour north from King's Cross, London along the East Coast Line.
G?
> The five points sound almost like star points.
Wouldn't those be spaced around the entire wall, rather than just one
side?
> I miss being able to visit cool historical places.
> I do have the water nearby.
>
> I would love to go to this room...
Well, if you're ever in England ask the Castle caretaker. Take cash.
> I would love to feel it.
Feel it?
> > This second room was used in the eighteenth century to move ice from the
> > first room to boats on the river.
> >
> > > I think what you have described of the first one is quite mysterious.
> >
> > As with anything 900 years old, you really have to be inside it to
> > appreciate it. Apparently it was used as a temple by the Templars right
> > up until the Civil Wars, long after the Castle had passed into the hands
> > of the Royalty (as opposed to the Bishop of Lincoln). I believe,
> > although I may be mistaken, that it was rented to the Duke of Newcastle.
> > The Duke of Newcastle owned enough property in the town to own a Seat in
> > the early nineteenth century. Most of the Castle was destroyed at the
> > end of the Third Siege by the Parliamentarians. Luckily the North-wall,
> > most of the Gate House, the NW, NE and N towers and the dungeons and
> > undercroft are still intact. Due to business developments in the
> > eighteenth and nineteenth centuries archaeology has produced nothing on
> > the site but an Anglo-Saxon burial site. Nothing on the site now but the
> > Castle and the Gilstrap Free Library.
>
> Yes, you can't appreciate so well from pictures.
Talking of pictures, I had a website which is probably still there,
which is at http://ncavalier.port5.com/newark.shtml which has various
pictures of the town.
> You really know alot about this place and your town.
Well, I try. And I know that Ordnance Survey are liars. They mark a
"Civil War fort" to the south of the town, beside the River Devon (near
the confluence with the Trent), but it's *not on the seventeenth century
siege plan*. And I can't figure out why Norton Disney is called Norton
Disney (Newark == New Work, as opposed to a former settlement called
Aldwark).
> > Excerpted from "LONDON to LEEDS (from Joseph Ballards "England in 1815")
> > 16th (May), 1815":
> > Alderman (later Governor) Hercules Clay had a prophetic experience, too.
> > That the roundheads would burn his house down with a cannonball from
> > Beacon Hill. Acting upon the third of these dreams he took his family
> > from the house, after which a cannonball from Beacon Hill passed through
> > every floor of his house and set it alight. He left money to the poor
> > and for an annual service at St. Mary Magdalene's Church in the
> > marketplace that is performed to this day.
>
>
>
> > That'll do. His will continues to discuss his posessions. Once you get
> > me started I tend to ramble.
>
> S'okay, I enjoy reading.
Good, I enjoy rambling.
Yes, really.
> You know the masons take a vow to slit the throat from left to right of
> anyone who divulges the secrets?
Well, I know now. Not strangling or throwing from high places in
hospitals? Does this only apply to insiders who betray them or to
outsiders too? Just remember, the Castle historian and the Templar with
the blurry face did it first, slit them. What do they slit the throat
with? Why left to right?
Stephen Morgan
No, that would mean buying a book and I'm too cheap. But if I ever come
into money I'll keep it in mind.
vanda
> If you're interested in another (fictional) take on how the Templars got
the
> ark, pick up the anthology ON CRUSADE: MORE TALES OF THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR,
> edited by Katherine Kurtz. There you'll find a story I wrote with my
wife,
> Alexandra Honigsberg, called "Borne on a River of Tears." It's a fun
read,
> if I dare say so myself.
Oh!
Really nifty!
I will look that up!!
Laura!
vanda
"ren" <r...@netgoths.com> wrote in message
news:i7d4ftk7av15vu0sr...@4ax.com...
>
> First she washed his feet and then she.. well I think you would sell
> more Bibles if you went into detail about it. He, he. >:)
Then she what ren?
Licked his feet too???
Laura!
vanda
> > Seriously!
>
> Scary.
It was, luckily, only an eastern king snake.
But I considered myself 'charmed'.
Not everyone has been bitten by a snake.
> > I'm not afraid of snakes though.
>
> Scary.
scorpions on the other hand make me uncomfortable.
> > It is that damn tunnel web spider!
>
> Scarier.
But I am not in Australia, sooo.
>
> > > -- Branton: The Redbook.
You are fond of Branton I see.
> Do you think that Grayner, the bullock herd, and the rest went into the
> cave?
Don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out.
> Crocodile hunter?
Steve and Terry Irwin.
www.crocodilehunter.com
(Oh, I see they have changed their website since I was there two years ago.
It used to be kind of home made, now it is professional.
>
> No, Brazil Nuts.
It is incredible watching my blue and gold macaw open on of those things
with just her beak!
I just imagine what she could do to a finger.
But she has never hurt anyone.
Raised her from about 5 weeks.
> Blame the Templar guy with the blury face. One is apparently in a
> recreation of the First Temple in Scotland.
Bit of a megalomaniac.
> Point. Click.
Well, mind games instead of just ALOT of pointing and clicking.
> There are alternatives. There's always Solaris, BeOS, OS/2, BSD,
> Linux... I use Slackware Linux. On a Windows box you'd want BigSlack or
> ZipSlack. Linux is a command-line OS, though. If you need to stay with
> Windows, I recommend CygWin (http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin IIRC).
What doe CygWin do?
I've heard good things about BeOS.
And I would LOVE a Sunsystem.
If my company ever does more than just pay my bills, I will get one.
Problem is, all my software, Quark, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc are all for
Windows.
> Over an hour north from King's Cross, London along the East Coast Line.
You mean an hour if there isn't alot of traffic?
> > The east is where the Worshipful Master in the masons sits.
> > The G, I believe stands for geometry.
>
> G?
Oh, the G in the masonic symbol. The compass and the square.
> > The five points sound almost like star points.
>
> Wouldn't those be spaced around the entire wall, rather than just one
> side?
Not if the star was positioned vertically.
> Well, if you're ever in England ask the Castle caretaker. Take cash.
I'll keep that in mind.
If I ever travelled I would be well prepared financially.
> > I would love to feel it.
>
> Feel it?
The walls and stone.
I like to feel things.
My paintings are of a very tactile nature.
> Talking of pictures, I had a website which is probably still there,
> which is at http://ncavalier.port5.com/newark.shtml which has various
> pictures of the town.
Nice pics.
Quite a site.
You have lots of energy.
> Well, I try. And I know that Ordnance Survey are liars. They mark a
> "Civil War fort" to the south of the town, beside the River Devon (near
> the confluence with the Trent), but it's *not on the seventeenth century
> siege plan*. And I can't figure out why Norton Disney is called Norton
> Disney (Newark == New Work, as opposed to a former settlement called
> Aldwark).
No, Disney is outside of Paris. And the name is Walt, not Norton.
> Good, I enjoy rambling.
Well, certainly feel free.
> > You know the masons take a vow to slit the throat from left to right of
> > anyone who divulges the secrets?
>
> Well, I know now. Not strangling or throwing from high places in
> hospitals?
No,, that is the Mafia.
Does this only apply to insiders who betray them or to
> outsiders too? Just remember, the Castle historian and the Templar with
> the blurry face did it first, slit them. What do they slit the throat
> with? Why left to right?
Well, they take an oath never to divulge their secret work.
So anyone who does that is supposed to be terminated.
I don't know anymore than that.
Laura!
Chive Mynde
Typical projections and accusations from the troll known as
Cheshire Fox.
You claimed to follow the rules of grammar and usage, yet it is obvious
that you don't, but you accuse others of not following the rules of
grammar and usage.
You claim to know the difference between magick and religion,
yet it is obvious that you don't, but you accuse others of not
knowing the difference between magick and religion.
You claim that Jesus did not refer to "hell" (Gehenna) in the NT,
yet it is obvious that he did, but you fail to retract your
erroneous claims when you are proven to be wrong.
Ad infinitum...
Stephen Morgan
> > > Oh, I was bitten by an 8 foot long snake.
> > > Seriously!
> >
> > Scary.
>
> It was, luckily, only an eastern king snake.
> But I considered myself 'charmed'.
> Not everyone has been bitten by a snake.
I've been bitten by hamsters and humans. Mostly humans.
> > > I'm not afraid of snakes though.
> >
> > Scary.
>
> scorpions on the other hand make me uncomfortable.
Fatal.
> > > It is that damn tunnel web spider!
> >
> > Scarier.
>
> But I am not in Australia, sooo.
Very lucky.
> > > > -- Branton: The Redbook.
>
> You are fond of Branton I see.
Second only to the Bible, the Didache, the Book of Enoch, and probably
some other things. I've read most of his work. Even "RVing the Grey
Collective".
> > Do you think that Grayner, the bullock herd, and the rest went into the
> > cave?
>
> Don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out.
I like caves. I wouldn't be able to stop myself going alien-hunting.
> > Crocodile hunter?
>
> Steve and Terry Irwin.
> www.crocodilehunter.com
> (Oh, I see they have changed their website since I was there two years ago.
> It used to be kind of home made, now it is professional.
Oh no. I can't even use frames.
> > No, Brazil Nuts.
>
> It is incredible watching my blue and gold macaw open on of those things
> with just her beak!
That's nothing, I have a cat that can get through a deadbolted door with
no handle. I never did figure out how she did that. And another that can
turn a door knob (no handle, just a knob) and open a door. They aren't
strong enough to crack brazil nuts, but they do have finesse. And the
ability to teleport through solid objects. :o)
> I just imagine what she could do to a finger.
No.
> But she has never hurt anyone.
Good.
> Raised her from about 5 weeks.
>
> > Blame the Templar guy with the blury face. One is apparently in a
> > recreation of the First Temple in Scotland.
>
> Bit of a megalomaniac.
Yes.
> > Point. Click.
>
> Well, mind games instead of just ALOT of pointing and clicking.
Of course. I like test adventures. I used to have a Commodore 64 with a
game called By Jove on cassette. Really good game. It proves that 200
proof vodka really does cause unconsciousness, but does not cure
depression or levitation.
> > There are alternatives. There's always Solaris, BeOS, OS/2, BSD,
> > Linux... I use Slackware Linux. On a Windows box you'd want BigSlack or
> > ZipSlack. Linux is a command-line OS, though. If you need to stay with
> > Windows, I recommend CygWin (http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin IIRC).
>
> What doe CygWin do?
It let's you run a lot of Linux programmes from Windows. bash, gcc, vim,
sed, that sort of thing.
> I've heard good things about BeOS.
I've heard incompatible things. Of course, I can't even get sound to
work in Slackware.
> And I would LOVE a Sunsystem.
Hmm... not too bad... Slackware has a SPARC version now...
> If my company ever does more than just pay my bills, I will get one.
> Problem is, all my software, Quark, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc are all for
> Windows.
Cygwin won't interfere with them. There are quite a few good utilities
for Linux (like GIMP), and some good graphics manipulation utils for the
Amiga.
> > Over an hour north from King's Cross, London along the East Coast Line.
>
> You mean an hour if there isn't alot of traffic?
No, the East Coast Mainline doesn't have traffic, it's a railway. The A1
by road, far longer.
> > > The east is where the Worshipful Master in the masons sits.
> > > The G, I believe stands for geometry.
> >
> > G?
>
> Oh, the G in the masonic symbol. The compass and the square.
Ah.
> > > The five points sound almost like star points.
> >
> > Wouldn't those be spaced around the entire wall, rather than just one
> > side?
>
> Not if the star was positioned vertically.
Vertically? There's the rising sun thing, I suppose.
> > Well, if you're ever in England ask the Castle caretaker. Take cash.
>
> I'll keep that in mind.
> If I ever travelled I would be well prepared financially.
>
> > > I would love to feel it.
> >
> > Feel it?
>
> The walls and stone.
> I like to feel things.
> My paintings are of a very tactile nature.
Strange.
> > Talking of pictures, I had a website which is probably still there,
> > which is at http://ncavalier.port5.com/newark.shtml which has various
> > pictures of the town.
>
> Nice pics.
> Quite a site.
> You have lots of energy.
Time, lots of time.
> > Well, I try. And I know that Ordnance Survey are liars. They mark a
> > "Civil War fort" to the south of the town, beside the River Devon (near
> > the confluence with the Trent), but it's *not on the seventeenth century
> > siege plan*. And I can't figure out why Norton Disney is called Norton
> > Disney (Newark == New Work, as opposed to a former settlement called
> > Aldwark).
>
> No, Disney is outside of Paris. And the name is Walt, not Norton.
A town near here, not a person.
> > Good, I enjoy rambling.
>
> Well, certainly feel free.
>
> > > You know the masons take a vow to slit the throat from left to right of
> > > anyone who divulges the secrets?
> >
> > Well, I know now. Not strangling or throwing from high places in
> > hospitals?
>
> No,, that is the Mafia.
And the CIA, to Weiss and Cooper, poor guys, killed.
> Does this only apply to insiders who betray them or to
> > outsiders too? Just remember, the Castle historian and the Templar with
> > the blurry face did it first, slit them. What do they slit the throat
> > with? Why left to right?
>
> Well, they take an oath never to divulge their secret work.
> So anyone who does that is supposed to be terminated.
I took no oath. Ever.
> I don't know anymore than that.
You just won't say any more than that.
vanda
I'm sure humans are the better of the two, especially if the particular
human doing the biting is attractive.
> > scorpions on the other hand make me uncomfortable.
>
> Fatal.
Actually, we have these little brown wood scorpions around my area. They
live in the pine trees.
The first time I found one in my house I was at a loss of how to deal with
them.
But their bite is only like a bee sting. And they do phosporesce.
(Do you know that the Alchemist discovered phosphoresence?)
After that, when I would find one, I would keep it for a while then let it
go.
I had a black widow spider for a while. Wonderful creature to watch. Fed
it flies and other bugs. She eventually died.
> Very lucky.
"They" keep telling me it is just like the US.
I don't think it is high on my list of places to go.
I want to go to Japan. I have a deep love of japanese art and ceramics. I
love their philosophies.
I want to go to Austria (Vienna?). I have seen places then when I got there
I recognize them. There is this place just outside vienna in austria...it
is an old stone castle. there is a stone wall around it and it is on the
top of a bluff over looking a green tree lined valley. I can see the view
and the whisps of fog. I just want to go there to prove to myself that I'm
not imagining. Even though I've done this on several other occasions.
Italy's Amalfi coat I would like to visit with a lover...hole up in a villa
for a couple weeks and walk around the town almost invisible with the rain
drops falling...sharing warm kisses in Pompeii and Herculaneum.
And I want to go to the great pyramids in Egypt.
> Second only to the Bible, the Didache, the Book of Enoch, and probably
> some other things. I've read most of his work. Even "RVing the Grey
> Collective".
He wrote a book on RVing?
Sounds like a witty Guy. Anything like Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
Maintenance?
"Shoelaces, I always travel with shoelaces".
> > Don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out.
>
> I like caves. I wouldn't be able to stop myself going alien-hunting.
If I were to be walking by a cave, my first instinct would be, "what is in
there, let's go see".
> Oh no. I can't even use frames.
Then I'll not send you to my old website.
I have three others <sigh> all in progress.
they are
www.knology.net/~vanda but that has frames in it too now that I think about
it.
www.catatonicstudios.com that is my business site, but I am working on it.
www.ravynlunachick.com my business site that I am sharing with a friend, but
we are working on it. she is ravyn and I am lunachick.
my old site, w/frames is www.gurlpages.com/obsess/catleya but it is outdated
and gurlpages won't let me in to change it for some stupid reason...I've
been in contact with them and they don't pay attention to what I write.
> That's nothing, I have a cat that can get through a deadbolted door with
> no handle. I never did figure out how she did that. And another that can
> turn a door knob (no handle, just a knob) and open a door. They aren't
> strong enough to crack brazil nuts, but they do have finesse. And the
> ability to teleport through solid objects. :o)
I've seen them turn doorknobs.
But a deadbolt is quite a feat.
I have two cats...A tank of fish...two birds...and <sigh> and Iguana named
fluffy.
> Of course. I like test adventures. I used to have a Commodore 64 with a
> game called By Jove on cassette. Really good game. It proves that 200
> proof vodka really does cause unconsciousness, but does not cure
> depression or levitation.
Sheesh!
I remember Commodores, 64 and Vic 20s. I remember tapes too.
I remember when a 486 was an awesome machine. Not too long ago.
> > I've heard good things about BeOS.
>
> I've heard incompatible things. Of course, I can't even get sound to
> work in Slackware.
I think there are problems with all the systems.
> > And I would LOVE a Sunsystem.
>
> Hmm... not too bad... Slackware has a SPARC version now...
Oooh, nice. I tried soo hard to get an ex employer to buy a sunsystem.
He just bought a MacG4 with a dual processor because he thinks color is
better on it and he doesn't even know how to use a Mac.
I guess he thinks I'm going to teach him or come back and work it for him.
his site www.timallenphotography.com and I don't think he has frames...but
he is soo cheap that he won't pay me to update his site. Pathetic really.
> Cygwin won't interfere with them. There are quite a few good utilities
> for Linux (like GIMP), and some good graphics manipulation utils for the
> Amiga.
Ahh, Amiga. Don't see that much anymore.
Was a good little system.
> No, the East Coast Mainline doesn't have traffic, it's a railway. The A1
> by road, far longer.
I think I was thinking of the A1.
I always take the scenic routes myself.
> > Not if the star was positioned vertically.
> Vertically? There's the rising sun thing, I suppose.
The sun rises in the east...the grand poobah sits in the east.
> > The walls and stone.
> > I like to feel things.
> > My paintings are of a very tactile nature.
>
> Strange.
Why? Are you not compelled to touch things from time to time?
> > Nice pics.
> > Quite a site.
> > You have lots of energy.
>
> Time, lots of time.
Does that have something to do with the economy in the UK?
> > No, Disney is outside of Paris. And the name is Walt, not Norton.
>
> A town near here, not a person.
<smile>
Yeah, I know.
I was just playing.
> > No,, that is the Mafia.
>
> And the CIA, to Weiss and Cooper, poor guys, killed.
I worked at the CIA for about a year...actually, I worked for an artist who
had a commission to install a sculpture called "kryptos" at the CIA.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/tour/krypt.html
I cut all those letters out by hand with a bosch saber saw..well, me and one
other person.
http://www.lexiline.de/lexiline/lexi6.htm
That is the link to the code.
You can do a google searh on Kryptos and Sanborn...there are three sections
to the sculputre, but the only one I guess the CIA would allow anyone to
photograph is the code part. The other two sections are huge slabs of red
granite.
> I took no oath. Ever.
For lack of a need or for priniciple?
> > I don't know anymore than that.
>
> You just won't say any more than that.
Is that so?
Okay, there is a wonderful place in NYC...It is a building...it is falling
down, but it is quite old. I should have taken photos when I was there, but
I wasn't prepared for what I would see.
The building is an old, abandoned insane asylum.
I had to sneak under a fence to get it, but once in it was a wonderment of
urban archaeology.
I love cities...I love the way they have these abandoned areas which seem to
have so much energy...then people find them and destroy the energy in the
name of urban revitalization.
I loved riding my bicycle through the streets of manhattan.
I would ride and ride, and sometimes I would find small treasures, like the
flower market...or a fresh vegetable market which was out of the beaten
path. And the 30 plums for $1 in china town. I saw seaturtles escaping
into the street which I see now in pet stores for $80 each. They were
selling them for food.
I was walking through Manhattan on the 4th of July (Independence day) and
Mikhail Baryshnikov was setting off fireworks from the top of his abode (an
old bank building in the roman style with a byzantine dome on top). He
didn't invite me up.
I did get to go up to Richard Geres place at University Place. I was
working as a bicycle messenger.
Okay, you were right, I knew more than that.
;-)
Laura!
Cheshire Fox
> >
> >> Or it leads to people taking the smallest scraps of evidence and
blowing
> >> them up to be much larger than they should be in order to prove their
> >point,
> >> no matter how much quicksand they seem to be treading in.
> >
> >like Chive. and Rhyanon.
> >
> >*grin*
>
> Typical projections and accusations from the troll known as
> Cheshire Fox.
>
> You claimed to follow the rules of grammar and usage, yet it is obvious
> that you don't, but you accuse others of not following the rules of
> grammar and usage.
>
> You claim to know the difference between magick and religion,
> yet it is obvious that you don't, but you accuse others of not
> knowing the difference between magick and religion.
>
> You claim that Jesus did not refer to "hell" (Gehenna) in the NT,
> yet it is obvious that he did, but you fail to retract your
> erroneous claims when you are proven to be wrong.
>
> Ad infinitum...
thank you for illustrating my point, Onion Boy. on cue, too. seems you CAN
learn, after all.
*grin*
Stephen Morgan
> > I've been bitten by hamsters and humans. Mostly humans.
>
> I'm sure humans are the better of the two, especially if the particular
> human doing the biting is attractive.
Hmm...
> > > scorpions on the other hand make me uncomfortable.
> >
> > Fatal.
>
> Actually, we have these little brown wood scorpions around my area. They
> live in the pine trees.
> The first time I found one in my house I was at a loss of how to deal with
> them.
> But their bite is only like a bee sting. And they do phosporesce.
> (Do you know that the Alchemist discovered phosphoresence?)
No.
> After that, when I would find one, I would keep it for a while then let it
> go.
> I had a black widow spider for a while. Wonderful creature to watch. Fed
> it flies and other bugs. She eventually died.
>
> > Very lucky.
>
> "They" keep telling me it is just like the US.
Australia has three entries in the Redbook. The US has more. Arizona has
more.
> I don't think it is high on my list of places to go.
> I want to go to Japan. I have a deep love of japanese art and ceramics. I
> love their philosophies.
The Society of the Green Dragon is Japanese.
> I want to go to Austria (Vienna?).
Alsace-Lorraine Mountains.
Also:
AUSTRIA, LOFER - Three German tourists who entered the vast Lamprecht
Cave, near Lofer, in the Salzburg mountain region, have never been
found. Their automobile was left locked outside the cave. In 1998 new
parts of the cave were discovered, connecting two cave systems and
making the Lamprechtsofe at the time the deepest [official] cave on
Earth! source: FLYING SAUCERS UNCENSORED, by Harold T. Wilkins;
LAMPRECHT CAVERN
-- Branton, The Redbook
> I have seen places then when I got there
> I recognize them. There is this place just outside vienna in austria...it
> is an old stone castle. there is a stone wall around it and it is on the
> top of a bluff over looking a green tree lined valley.
Nice.
> I can see the view
> and the whisps of fog. I just want to go there to prove to myself that I'm
> not imagining. Even though I've done this on several other occasions.
> Italy's Amalfi coat I would like to visit with a lover...hole up in a villa
> for a couple weeks and walk around the town almost invisible with the rain
> drops falling...sharing warm kisses in Pompeii and Herculaneum.
> And I want to go to the great pyramids in Egypt.
Ah. Don't forget to look out for Kamagol-II.
EGYPT, CAIRO - 500 feet below the base of the great pyramid, a secret team reportedly discovered a metallic door
operated via sonic code, behind which was a room with over 30,000 recording discs and "alien" equipment. The discs
were deciphered and reveal the rise and fall of alien civilizations. Over 2700 record discs were photographed with
infrared film [the Egyptian government would not allow the discs to be taken from the chamber], as well as photographs
of other strange equipment stored in three levels. According to an Air Force contact, the photo plates are sitting in
a safe at Kirtland Air Force Base, New Mexico. source: ORION TECHNOLOGY, MIND CONTROL, AND OTHER SECRET PROJECTS, by
Val Valerian
___________________________________________________________
EGYPT, CAIRO - Report of an unexplored tunnel system near Zozer's Step Pyramid at Memphis-Saqqarah, within the tomb of
the Bull, called "Serapium", which was reportedly sealed by the Egyptian government in order to keep explorers from
being lost in its confusing labyrinth. source: "Odyssey Into Egypt", by Dr. Earlyne Chaney & Bill Cox, VOICE OF
ASTARA, May 1982 issue. source: Tomb of Serapium; Astara Report
___________________________________________________________
EGYPT, EL TRINA GABEL[?] - Bill Cox described his visit to the ruins at Trina Gambel [or the ruins of El Tuna Gabel in
the temple of Edfu between Luxor and Cairo, according to another source], where he observed a large horizontal shaft
in the wall 8 feet above the floor. One of the guides told him that expeditionary forces several decades before had
explored the passage and had followed the tunnel for several days without finding the end, having run out of candles,
torches and markers, fearing that they would become lost if they proceeded any further. Some allege that below the
Gizeh plateau is an immense cavern in which the "Black Monks" of the NSA, Aryan humanoids from Sirius-B, Reptiloids
from Alpha Draco, and Greys from Rigel Orion collaborate as part of the ancient "Kamagol-II Empire" which was driven
underground following their loss of an ancient war between Orion and Sirius-A over who would control the Egyptian
ruling elite. This cult is not only the one that is supposed to have backed the Nazi's but has also infiltrated and
controls behind the scenes much of the psionic electromagnetic "Ashtar" network which links the minds of an untold
number of beings throughout the galaxy and beneath the earth into a single collective mind. The massive Gizeh facility
reportedly has operative connections with the Dulce New Mexico and Pine Gap Australia bases. source: THE HOLLOW HASSLE
Newsletter, Aug. 1, 1981 [Vol.2, No.4]; THE LEADING EDGE magazine; The Temple at Edfu; Astara Report
-- Branton, The Redbook
> > Second only to the Bible, the Didache, the Book of Enoch, and probably
> > some other things. I've read most of his work. Even "RVing the Grey
> > Collective".
>
> He wrote a book on RVing?
No, not a book, just a small file. He wrote books on Aliens, Nazis,
Alien Nazis, Nazi Aliens, that sort of thing. They're all on the
internet. My personal favourite (the hardest to find, I've only seen it
one place on the net) is CRIM-RAM (Cosmic Conflict Vol. 2, Edition 1.2),
but for beginners COSCON (Cosmic Conflict Vol. 1) is probably more
believeable.
> Sounds like a witty Guy.
Not really, no. You might *think* that he's joking (Star Trek being
based on Gene Roddenberry's interactions with benevolent aliens, for
example) but he isn't.
> Anything like Zen
Absoultely not. I'll copy RVGreyC at the end of this message.
> and the Art of Motorcycle
> Maintenance?
> "Shoelaces, I always travel with shoelaces".
Umm...
> > > Don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out.
> >
> > I like caves. I wouldn't be able to stop myself going alien-hunting.
>
> If I were to be walking by a cave, my first instinct would be, "what is in
> there, let's go see".
My only reaction would be "Is there an alien in there?"
> > Oh no. I can't even use frames.
>
> Then I'll not send you to my old website.
> I have three others <sigh> all in progress.
> they are
> www.knology.net/~vanda but that has frames in it too now that I think about
> it.
I never liked frames, even when my browser (Netscape, at the time) could
read them.
> www.catatonicstudios.com that is my business site, but I am working on it.
> www.ravynlunachick.com my business site that I am sharing with a friend, but
> we are working on it. she is ravyn and I am lunachick.
> my old site, w/frames is www.gurlpages.com/obsess/catleya but it is outdated
> and gurlpages won't let me in to change it for some stupid reason...I've
> been in contact with them and they don't pay attention to what I write.
Hmm.
> > That's nothing, I have a cat that can get through a deadbolted door with
> > no handle. I never did figure out how she did that. And another that can
> > turn a door knob (no handle, just a knob) and open a door. They aren't
> > strong enough to crack brazil nuts, but they do have finesse. And the
> > ability to teleport through solid objects. :o)
>
> I've seen them turn doorknobs.
> But a deadbolt is quite a feat.
Six feet off the floor and the opposite side of the door to her. She
could have got the the latch, but not the bolt.
> I have two cats...A tank of fish...two birds...and <sigh> and Iguana named
> fluffy.
I have a cat called pickle. And one called Ria and one called Grey. Grey
is called Grey because he is grey.
> > Of course. I like test
Text, I meant text.
> > adventures. I used to have a Commodore 64 with a
> > game called By Jove on cassette. Really good game. It proves that 200
> > proof vodka really does cause unconsciousness, but does not cure
> > depression or levitation.
>
> Sheesh!
> I remember Commodores, 64 and Vic 20s. I remember tapes too.
> I remember when a 486 was an awesome machine. Not too long ago.
I got rid of my Commodore 64 a while ago. Actually, the water tank
leaked on it.
> > > I've heard good things about BeOS.
> >
> > I've heard incompatible things. Of course, I can't even get sound to
> > work in Slackware.
>
> I think there are problems with all the systems.
Probably.
> > > And I would LOVE a Sunsystem.
> >
> > Hmm... not too bad... Slackware has a SPARC version now...
>
> Oooh, nice. I tried soo hard to get an ex employer to buy a sunsystem.
> He just bought a MacG4 with a dual processor because he thinks color is
> better on it and he doesn't even know how to use a Mac.
Weirdo. My computer is Grey with dirty bits.
> I guess he thinks I'm going to teach him or come back and work it for him.
> his site www.timallenphotography.com and I don't think he has frames...but
> he is soo cheap that he won't pay me to update his site. Pathetic really.
Why pay someone to update your site? HTML is easy.
> > Cygwin won't interfere with them. There are quite a few good utilities
> > for Linux (like GIMP), and some good graphics manipulation utils for the
> > Amiga.
>
> Ahh, Amiga. Don't see that much anymore.
> Was a good little system.
Ah: RiscOS! Don't forget RiscOS, a very good little machine/OS.
> > No, the East Coast Mainline doesn't have traffic, it's a railway. The A1
> > by road, far longer.
>
> I think I was thinking of the A1.
> I always take the scenic routes myself.
Walking is probably scenic. Or biking.
> > > Not if the star was positioned vertically.
>
> > Vertically? There's the rising sun thing, I suppose.
>
> The sun rises in the east...the grand poobah sits in the east.
Heh heh heh, poobah.
> > > The walls and stone.
> > > I like to feel things.
> > > My paintings are of a very tactile nature.
> >
> > Strange.
>
> Why? Are you not compelled to touch things from time to time?
No. Except in the dark. That room was dark.
> > > Nice pics.
> > > Quite a site.
> > > You have lots of energy.
> >
> > Time, lots of time.
>
> Does that have something to do with the economy in the UK?
No. The educational system and Derbyshire.
> > > No, Disney is outside of Paris. And the name is Walt, not Norton.
> >
> > A town near here, not a person.
>
> <smile>
> Yeah, I know.
> I was just playing.
Ah.
> > > No,, that is the Mafia.
> >
> > And the CIA, to Weiss and Cooper, poor guys, killed.
>
> I worked at the CIA for about a year...actually, I worked for an artist who
> had a commission to install a sculpture called "kryptos" at the CIA.
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/tour/krypt.html
> I cut all those letters out by hand with a bosch saber saw..well, me and one
> other person.
> http://www.lexiline.de/lexiline/lexi6.htm
> That is the link to the code.
> You can do a google searh on Kryptos and Sanborn...there are three sections
> to the sculputre, but the only one I guess the CIA would allow anyone to
> photograph is the code part. The other two sections are huge slabs of red
> granite.
Why?
> > I took no oath. Ever.
>
> For lack of a need or for priniciple?
Both.
> > > I don't know anymore than that.
> >
> > You just won't say any more than that.
>
> Is that so?
> Okay, there is a wonderful place in NYC...It is a building...it is falling
> down, but it is quite old. I should have taken photos when I was there, but
> I wasn't prepared for what I would see.
> The building is an old, abandoned insane asylum.
> I had to sneak under a fence to get it, but once in it was a wonderment of
> urban archaeology.
> I love cities...I love the way they have these abandoned areas which seem to
> have so much energy...then people find them and destroy the energy in the
> name of urban revitalization.
We had slums, too, until they knocked them down in the 50s and built a
shopping centre and two housing projects. We still had prefabs in the
70s. They built a warehouse and accidentally destroyed the King's
Sconce, a civil war fort, too.
> I loved riding my bicycle through the streets of manhattan.
> I would ride and ride, and sometimes I would find small treasures, like the
> flower market...or a fresh vegetable market which was out of the beaten
> path. And the 30 plums for $1 in china town. I saw seaturtles escaping
> into the street which I see now in pet stores for $80 each. They were
> selling them for food.
> I was walking through Manhattan on the 4th of July (Independence day) and
> Mikhail Baryshnikov was setting off fireworks from the top of his abode (an
> old bank building in the roman style with a byzantine dome on top). He
> didn't invite me up.
> I did get to go up to Richard Geres place at University Place. I was
> working as a bicycle messenger.
>
> Okay, you were right, I knew more than that.
> ;-)
Not really relevent, though...
Right, RVGreyC:
RV-ing the Grey Collective
by Branton
I recently came across an interesting volume titled COSMIC VOYAGE, by Mr. Courtney M. Brown, Ph.D. This work deals
with the authors' personal experiments with remote viewing, along with his trainer, a former remote viewer for the
U.S. Military who taught him the secret military RV techniques.
>From my own perspective, remote viewing operates through the subspace body of a human being who is able to tap-in to
the universal psionic field. Since the psionic field is the very foundation of all space-time-material reality, the
so-called " master program" of the universe, it is not necessarily bound by the limits of space, time and matter. Like
a bio-chemical radio transceiver, some individuals -- for better or for worse -- have the ability to "tune-in" to and
"surf" the universal consciousness, the "flowline", or the Akasha memory matrix, to specific places in space and time.
One of the "targets" which Mr. Brown's military RV trainer sent him to was the Grey aliens' collective mind.
Shortly after this particular experiment began (one of many), Brown found himself in an area where several Greys were
working, although he did not know exactly where this was. He "followed" the collective mind and found it to be
absolutely massive, giving him the feeling of something unbounded, and almost universal in nature. However, he did
detect a center, a definite "heartbeat" of this collective matrix, into which and out from which a steady stream of
information was flowing.
He noticed, at one point, an unusual "subspace" being that seemed to be directing the activities of the Greys he was
observing, and discovered that the bodies of the Greys themselves were incarnated by such "subspace" beings which
entered the Greys' embryonic bodies and used them as vessels to manipulate physical reality.
Brown was then instructed to locate other of these beings who apparently controlled the Grey collective from a
subspace level, and found himself in an area where several of these subspace or paraphysical entities were located. As
he continued towards this "center" the number of subspace beings increased until he came to a place of much activity,
something like a grand central station type of area, where these beings were very active in various pursuits. He did
not know exactly where this was, but noticed that the closer he came to the control "center" the more he sensed a
rigid atmosphere of absolute military-like control. He came to what he sensed was the central governing center of the
subspace beings' activity, and in the center of this there was another area where a "council of 10" very high-level
subspace beings congregated. These were apparently the governing principalities who were engaged running the whole
operation. The security here was absolutely incredible.
Then he perceived the SUPREME LEADER of this council of 10 subspace entities...and at about this point Courtney Brown
was jerked back into his body, so to speak. He sensed that this leader had detected the presence of his subspace body,
and had followed this RV "intruder" back to his physical source. Brown and his trainer felt a deep, dark "cloud" enter
the room and it stayed there for about half a minute scrutinizing the scene. It left, apparently seeing the two RV'ers
as "small frys" who were not worth wasting its time on.
Before Brown's expulsion from the command center however, he was able to perceive for a brief moment what this being
was really like. He or it was an extremely powerful being, but with a twisted personality that was full of darkness.
Apparently this being had come into conflict with another Force which it saw as its enemy. Brown sensed in this being
a severe self-esteem problem, in spite of its incredible power, and because of this it had a consuming desire to be
worshipped by others. Brown was confused when he sensed that the subspace beings and in turn the Reptilians/Greys were
COMMANDED by this leader to engage in self- indulgent and destructive activities. This being wanted his servants to
use self-indulgent rewards or fear to maintain the absolute hierarchical command structure within its empire -- as
well as through the rest of the subspace hierarchy and in turn the Grey society that they completely infested.
Brown also got the impression that it was FEAR and PRIDE -- its perceived NEED to be worshipped -- that kept this
being from negotiating with its ancient enemy, and that this being was utterly desperate to maintain its very survival
or existence (strange for a seemingly immortal subspace being) and chose to resort to rebellion and terrorism in a
desperate attempt to take control of the situation. Brown received a strong impression that this being was the
ultimate universal terrorist!!! Apparently because of its all-consuming ego this being would NEVER humble itself
before its "enemy".
Now if we go to the book of Revelation, chapter 12, we find that the ultimate leader of the serpent race's collective
is Lucifer, also known as the "great red dragon", the "old serpent", "the Devil" or "Satan" in the same chapter.
Lucifer was one of the three original archangels (aside from Michael and Gabriel) who each had charge over one-third
of the light beings who the Almighty had created.
Now if you're a hard-core evolutionist you may not want to suffer through the rest of this message, as physical
evolution cannot account for spirit entities, nor for the human soul for that matter. As for myself, I have a
"creationist-evolutionist" concept of reality, or that life in this universe was "created" and then left to "evolve"
from there in various directions which the Creator allowed.
Lucifer, as most may know from theological and eschatological traditions, reflected the infinite "light" of the
Creator with great brilliance, and therefore the name Lucifer, meaning "light bearer" -- "bearer" being the operative
word here. Lucifer reflected the light of the Almighty like a diamond reflects the light of the Sun. However, Lucifer
began taking his eyes off of the SOURCE and began giving HIMSELF credit for the "light" that he bore (I use the term
"he" for semantic reasons only, although this being -- as well as the Godhead -- are not necessarily beings of gender
from my own understanding), and the next step was inevitable -- jealousy of the Almighty's position.
Now I realize that many of you have different concepts of "God", however let us just take part in a thought experiment
for a moment. If one accepts the concept of a "Trinity", then one cannot accuse God of vainglory, for the Father is
ever seeking to glorify the Son (the Logos or the Living Word) and the Spirit (which the Father and the "Son of God"
share). The same holds true with the Son and the Spirit seeking to give glory to their other two counterparts in the
Godhead. How can God be three distinct personalities yet one single "God"? (the pleural "Eloheim" God AND the singular
"Jehovah" God at the same time?). One might just as well ask, how can the universe be "one" universe yet consist of
space, time and matter...three distinct aspects, yet take one away and the singular universe ceases to be? We can also
use the "trinities" of ultraviolet-visible- infrared (LIGHT - and imitating the Father, Son and Spirit one kind of
light is invisible, one is visible, and one is felt); or length-width-height (SPACE); past-present-future (TIME);
energy- motional-phenomena (MATTER), proton-neutron-electron (ATOMS), and other "triune" manifest-ations in nature
such as in humans themselves: the physical-material body, the soular-mental body, and the astral-spirit body and the
sublevels of each of these three distinctions...we ourselves being three-in-one beings.
If I'm beginning to sound preachy, then please bear with me. I believe that many of you will agree that the Grey
phenomena has both a physical and supernatural nature, and that we cannot fully understand one without accepting the
other. One could equate this to the division within the UFO research community in the 1950's and 1960's over whether
UFO's were nuts and bolts craft or ethereal supernatural manifestations. Well...why not BOTH?
So then, Lucifer, in his jealousy, rallies his followers (one- third of the angelic beings) together and convinced
them that God is being unjust, that He's holding out on them and that he (Lucifer) has as much a right to be Almighty
God as does God Almighty Himself. In addition to this, Lucifer tells his followers that they too can be Almighty Gods,
all they have to do is follow him.
Now, promising them godhood is very strange, since the more "gods" there are the more the term "God" loses its
singular distinction. It's like a potential president promising every U.S. voter that if he is elected then he will
simultaneously make all of those who voted for him Presidents of the United States! Do you see the insanity? Perhaps
not, but it seems to be obvious to me. You see, from my perspective if we are all gods then there is NO God. Pantheism
must ultimately lead to Atheism. If that's the way you wish to believe then you certainly have the free choice to do
so...But I'm only trying to make a point that according to traditional Judeo-Christian eschatological beliefs, this is
the deception that Lucifer used to gain his recruits. Now you can accept this or leave it as you will, I'm not trying
to force any beliefs upon anyone, just attempting to open up some discussion on the possible nature of the
supernatural forces motivating the Greys' collective. Since "theological" manipulation is a major part of the Greys'
agenda, the eschatological factor is one that must be dealt with in order to understand the rest.
So the rebellion began, and the heavens were torn in two as the standing and fallen angelics warred with each other,
resulting in the fallen angels being cast from the realm of Eternity and into the physical universe. Could the
"subspace" beings described by Courtney Brown be fallen light beings or angels?
Brown stated that this "leader" had his followers incarnate the reptilian Greys, and had ordered them to sabotage
their race. The fourth planet of Zeta II Reticuli was the Greys' "home world", however Zeta II Reticuli is a star
lacking in sufficient carbon content to allow for the natural development of carbon-based life, so the Greys must have
colonized that world sometime in the past.
[From Earth, they come from Earth. - SM]
The subspace beings, according to Brown, animated themselves through the Greys and turned them to a mindset of self-
indulgence, which in turn led to the drive within the Greys for immediate gratification at the expense of their future
and their world's resources (sound familiar?). Once their world had become a polluted, radioactive ruin which was
threatening their very genetic survival, the subspace beings under the command of their "leader" offered a solution --
all the Greys had to do to survive was to give up all individual rights and emotions, and submit to a collective mind
which would control every aspect of the Greys' culture -- for their own "good" of course, they were told. Using the
excuse that individuality was the root of the problem, the subspace collective took things to the opposite extreme and
insisted that an absolute collective mind was the answer.
In other RV experiments Brown saw humanoids living on Mars in some past era. A large planetoid grazed the atmosphere
with such violence -- barely missing the surface -- that storm of enormous magnitude swept across the surface and much
of the atmosphere itself was blown out into space. The Greys (who were observing this event and could have prevented
the disaster) arrived as the planet was in the midst of upheaval, and offered to rescue the Martians, but at a price
-- namely that the Martian humanoids surrender to the control of the Greys' collective and others be cryogenically
preserved in order to "preserve" their race. Actually according to Brown the main purpose of the cryogenic project was
to "preserve" them as sources for genetic materials to upgrade the Greys' race from time to time. This occurred mostly
after the humans had escaped underground and were desperate for survival -- every day being a struggle for existence.
NOW, according to Brown, Mars is under the control of the Greys, although some pockets of humans and "hybrids" remain
in various places underground. Other sources claim that in 1985 the joint-operational "Alternative 3" facilities on
Mars were sabotaged and taken over by the Draconians (Reptiloids and Greys serving the collective).
[The Ts and Ds fought an ancient war on earth. The Ts won but wrecked their own settlements on earth along with the D settlements on earth. They both set up under- and off-world settlements (Mars, Agharti, etc.). They continued fighting, with the Ds getting the best of it (as they had done the whole time), on the off-world and subterran settlements. - SM]
What Brown sensed was that the Greys were desperate. They realize that they not only need to genetically upgrade their
race but also need to attain emotional individuality in order for their culture to survive (and this may have
something to do with the "hybrid" projects). However they are trapped by the collective itself...there is presently a
great sense of panic within the collective combined with a bizarre sense of protection which the combined psychic
power of the collective provides. Although they are desperate to attain emotional individuality which they are
attempting to do by interfacing with humans, assimilating human genetics, and producing quasi- hybrid genetic
offspring, they cannot fully make the break from the collective without the help of those who already exist in an
individualized state, namely the humans. For those of you who are familiar with the BORG collective in the STAR TREK:
NEXT GENERATION series, certain episodes depicted a Borg entity by the name of "Hue" who developed emotional
individuality during his captivity aboard the Enterprise and as a result of his association with human individuals. He
was later sent back into the collective and introduced the idea of individuality, and in later episodes gathered quite
a following of other Borg who also developed individuality and broke-off from the collective.
["Hugh". - SM]
The problem with the collectivist Greys is that, although they need the humans, the self-destructive instructions
coming down through the collective itself from the hierarchy are SABOTAGING all attempts to deal with humans on a
reasonable basis. Once they establish an agreement with a humanoid culture for whatever motive, the collective
commences to use the agreement for its own imperialistic agendas, and the human collaborators are betrayed and
sometimes destroyed (as in the Alternative 2 and 3 bases), and war inevitably results.
[Procyon. - SM]
The only answer to the problem that I can see would be to concentrate on severing individual reptiloids and greys from
the collective and attacking the "control centers" of the collective itself. In this case mere technical and
psychological attacks will not be enough...supernatural warfare will be the only answer since we are dealing with
"subspace" beings. We need the help of the standing angels, yet at the same time we need to be careful since the
fallen angels are good at masquerading as standing angels, which they have often done with those who have " channeled"
these entities via occult means, feeding them with information which has later turned out to be false -- manipulative
propaganda.
We must realize that the ONLY being in the collective which is allowed to exercise individual choice is their dark
leader, and to a lesser extent the inner council, and these beings do NOT want the Reptiloids and Greys to attain
emotional individualism. But what about other "collectives" like the Ashtar or Astarte collective? Just who is this
"Ashtar"? Why is the Ashtar collective so involved with the Dulce base activity in joint capacity with the Greys and
Reptiloids according to certain reports? Is it, as contactee Israel Norkin claims, because the "Unholy Six" star
systems of Orion have infiltrated the Ashtar collective to a massive extent? What about the bald 9-foot tall Reptilian
"from the Pleiades" who supposedly defected from the Draconian collective, HATONN? Why hasn't Hatonn been warning
about this infiltration of his own collective? Is it because he is secretly working FOR the Draconian-Orion empire?
Certainly if he was truly converted from the Draconian collective he could be a lot more zealous in exposing
it...especially its infiltration of the Ashtar collective.
[Believe Israel Norkin. - SM]
If we are to believe reports of "Star Wars" taking place within Sirius-B where the Ashtar collective has its
headquarters, then this leaves open the possibility that the Ashtar collective is in the process of splitting down the
middle between an interventionist faction siding with the Draco-Orion Empire and a non-interventionist faction siding
with the Andro-Pleiadean Federation. Now for some further theological speculation...
[A D[raco/ero] invasion force is coming from Sirius-B, to here, for 2003. - SM]
In II Peter 2:4 we read that: "...God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered
them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment."
This verse is apparently speaking of the high-level leaders of the ancient rebellion, who were so evil that they were
bound in dark prisons deep under the earth. However the Bible gives several accounts of fallen angels or demons that
are fully ACTIVE on the surface of the earth, so we must conclude that these were lower ranking angels like the
"elementals" who were merely following the "party line" since they are allowed more or less to roam about the earth
freely. If such angels were condemned when the first war in heaven ran its course, then WHY are they still allowed to
more or less roam free? Is God possibly giving them TIME to reconsider their ways? Does the above verse mean that ALL
fallen angels are irreparably doomed, having essentially become spiritual "black holes" after they of their own choice
annihilated any and all "light" within themselves, essentially leaving nothing for the Almighty to work with and
therefore having no hope of redemption? (black holes, once collapsed, can never become "stars" again -- could a
spiritual being collapse from a light-giving being so COMPLETELY that it becomes a "black hole" entity destroying and
consuming all life, light and innocence around it? ) Or, has the Creator in his infinite mercy given SOME of the
fallen angels -- those who still maintain a semblance of regret for their part in the rebellion -- one last chance by
allowing them physical incarnation through the Reptiloids and Greys? Could this be why the Greys are so absolutely
desperate to attain emotional individuality in spite of the restraints of an individuality- killing collective? Could
their very eternal destinies be at stake?
A few years ago I would have totally rejected the possibility that some of the fallen angels could be included in the
plan of redemption, yet now I wonder...
Now before you begin labeling me a heretic, I would like to quote three versus regarding the serpent race (Greys,
Reptiloids):
"Now the serpent was more subtil (intelligent) than any beast of the field...And the Lord God said unto the
serpent...I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed." -- Genesis 6:1,14-15
In its full context these verses imply that the fallen archangel Lucifer was the one that incarnated this particular
reptilian -- possibly something akin to a veliciraptor or other similar types of bi-ped saurian humanoids -- and in
turn the entire serpent race, promising them power over man and nature if the Luciferians could re-incarnate through
their race at will. Whether you take this passage literally or symbolically, the message is essentially the same.
Lucifer used the serpent race to deceive the humans into sabotaging their own connection with the God-Source and
thereby sabotaging their supernatural dominion over the lower life forms -- and from that point onward these lower
life forms began turning wild and untamed because the downward "flow" or Life and Order had been broken at the human
level as death and chaos began to reign. One of the races which reverted to their base animal or predatory nature of
course was the serpent race which originally held a position somewhere between mankind and the beasts, yet due to
man's "fall" and the reptilians' alliance with the Luciferians, they began taking the upper hand over the human race
-- or rather, the fallen angels began taking the upper hand over the human race THROUGH the serpent race.
Today one could say that we see basically the same thing happening, however in this case it is the "subspace beings"
incarnating the Greys and offering the "forbidden fruit" of occult-technology to those intent on using it to establish
god- like control and domination over their fellow man. As Solomon once said, "there is no new thing under the sun".
But the point I want to make is that according to this verse, fallen angels have been re-incarnating through the Grey
serpentine) races for quite some time.
And another verse:
"In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even
leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea." -- Isaiah 27:1
This verse, unless I'm mistaken, is speaking of the reptilian COLLECTIVE itself, which could be considered as a
"piercing serpent". And then the following verse, which literally threw me for a loop:
"Praise ye him, ALL his angels: praise ye him, ALL his hosts... Praise the Lord from the earth, ye dragons, and ALL
deeps." -- Psalm 148:2,7
[In mine: You see monsters and all deeps. - SM]
[Deeps as in subterran aliens. - SM]
Now unless I'm grossly misinterpreting scripture, it would seem that here God is saying that the
(fallen-angel-incarnated) serpent races are told to praise the Almighty -- who after all was their creator before they
corrupted their own race. Other verses that we might add to the one above include:
"Let EVERY THING that hath breath praise the Lord." -- Psalm 150:6
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to EVERY CREATURE." -- Mark 16:15
"And EVERY CREATURE which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all
that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the
throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." -- Revelation 5:13
In order to make the choice to appropriate the redemptive work of the Christ, the Reptiloids and Greys would have to
develop emotional individuality and somehow become dis-connected from the "Luciferian collective".
The former Dulce base security officer Thomas C. Castello reported his amazement when one of the reptiloid workers in
the base began to show signs of individual expression and even concern for the abductees who were being held there
against their will by the collective. This reptilians' individual emotionalism may have developed from his friendship
with Thomas over the period of time that they both worked together. Unfortunately this reptilian and several others
who had joined with Castello's "resistance" of nine human base workers, were slaughtered in the Dulce wars by human
and alien agents of the collective.
[Castello escaped, his story is in COSCON, The Dulce Book and CRIM-RAM. - SM]
There are other examples. For instance Bert and Diane Twiggs in their book SECRET VOWS tell of seeing a smiling and
jovial reptiloid security officer serving on a space station maintained by humans from the Andromeda constellation.
Others have on rare occasions experienced encounters with friendly reptiloids, but these are few and far between by
comparison, being greatly outnumbered by indifferent or even violently malicious reptilian humanoids, no doubt
servants of the collective.
Also, Stan Johnson in his book BIGFOOT MEMORIES (describing his encounters with "Sasquatch" type humans from the fifth
dimension who were in alliance with human-like star people within Mt. Shasta and elsewhere) tells of a visit that he
and the Sasquatch people had made to a series of caverns deep under the earth, inhabited by reptilian humanoids. Some
of the reptiloids they encountered were aggressive, whereas others were more mellow because (the reptiloids explained)
some time in the past some human "missionaries" from the surface had found their way down into the caverns and had
taught them about God, and how to live in peace and harmony.
I should reiterate that although some reptiloids might be converted to a benign state, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE
SHOULD COMPROMISE ONE INCH IN OUR RESISTANCE TO THE ABUSIVE ACTIONS OF CERTAIN ALIEN GROUPS, be they reptiloid,
humanoid, insectoid or other...for our own sakes as well as theirs.
Much of what I have written here is, I admit, speculation. These are ideas that have been forming in my mind for
several months now. I guess it all comes down to the idea that good and evil are genetic (human = good; reptilian =
evil -- and face it, there really is not much of a historical case for the idea that " human" and "good" are always
synonymous) AS OPPOSED TO the idea that good and evil are manifestations of personal CHOICE and not manifestations of
genetic disposition.
[I think it's choice, for humans at least. - SM]
Fortunately the Luciferian collectivists according to Revelation 12 will lose their powerbase in the galaxy as
resistance to their atrocities increases. Unfortunately however the central command of the collective will escape to
the caverns of planet earth, which will serve as their "last stand", and according to prophecy they will begin a
desperate program to recruit Terrans through a European-based New World Order involving electronic mind control
implants and ancient roots in the remnants of the ill-named Holy Roman Empire. All of this will be a last-ditch effort
to re-gain their lost ground among the stars. In the process they will devastate much of the planet, but it will all
be for naught as they will lose in the end. The question is NOT whether they will lose the war, the question is how
many of US will survive these apocalyptic events. I believe that this largely depends on the collective WILL of
individual human beings throughout this planet. It is not something that is set in stone.
-Branton
I'm not nuts. Brian Allen Walton's (Branton) website is at http://www.angelfire.com/ut/branton and I know it looks weird, but don't let that put you off. CRIM-RAM isn't there. http://www.eagle-net.org/BrantonsFiles/ (I think) is another one.
Chive Mynde
Oh, you are very welcome, Ms. Fox.
>on cue, too. seems you CAN learn, after all.
You're right!
I've *learned* that you are a fool, a hypocrite, an ignoramus,
and a child.
HTH.
David Honigsberg
> Really nifty!
> I will look that up!!
If you do, please let me know what you thought if it. It's a story that
Alexandra and I are very happy with.
Rabbi Honigsberg
vanda
> > Oh!
> > Really nifty!
> > I will look that up!!
>
> If you do, please let me know what you thought if it. It's a story that
> Alexandra and I are very happy with.
Okay.
I wrote the title down, but I don't remember which one it was, I have this
list of books I should read.
I lost all my headers, so could you please tell me the name of the book
again...I will look it up, I will read it and I will tell you what I think.
Thank you!
David Honigsberg
> I wrote the title down, but I don't remember which one it was, I have this
> list of books I should read.
> I lost all my headers, so could you please tell me the name of the book
> again...I will look it up, I will read it and I will tell you what I
think.
Sure. The book is called ON CRUSADE: MORE TALES OF THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR;
it's edited by Katherine Kurtz. Our story is called "Borne on a River of
Tears."
Rabbi Honigsberg
vanda
I'll see if I can get it.
--
Laura! ©2001
"David Honigsberg" <dhoni...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:azFK6.5261$8x4.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
: > Okay.
:
:
:
David Honigsberg
> I'll see if I can get it.
You're quite welcome. I =think= that it's still in print.
Rabbi Honigsberg
Harradan
and lived out his days in Europe with his wife Magdalene, and his
children. The enlightened know. And yes, Jesus was a witch, and he did
study the Kabbalah, and the Majicks as well as other religious
writings. As for the Jewish contingent among the Templars and the
Masons...they are connected to the Apostles. Jesus was a Jew you know.
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:20:57 -0500, "vanda" <vand...@yeehaw.com>
wrote:
>> Oooo, Laura, I've got a book you're gonna love...
>> Have you read about the supposed "Priory of Sion" conspiracy?
>> Check out "Holy Blood, Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent.
>> It's got tons of stuff about descendents of Jesus, the Templars,
>> the Masons, and the royal families of Europe. You don't have to
>> believe a word of it, it's just fascinating.
>
>I'll check it out.
>That is about what I have heard...and why the royal blood lines are royal.
>It is indeed fascinating stuff.
>I have a strong masonic heritage and have always held a curiosity about this
>type of thing.
>I believe Jesus was a witch...and surely studied the kabbalah.
>And isn't the rosicrucians based on masonry?
>And wasn't Aleister Crowley involved in that?
>But, what I haven't figured out is, if the Templars and Masons were kind of
>custodians of the grail (or do I mean arc of the covenant?), then why is
>there a strong Jewish contingent amongst them?
>Were you a DeMolay?
>
>Laura!
>
>
Harradan
the Catholic church to contain and destroy the Protestant movement
started by Martin Luther in Wittenburg Germany and to find Luther and
kill him. They have been at war with the Lutherans (sp) since their
inception. They have also been used by the Catholics to further the
church's interests in all matters worldwide. They forcefully convert
people to the church by any means necessary to accomplish their
mission, up to and including murder. They play timid, but never
underestimate them. They will turn in a heartbeat.
On Tue, 1 May 2001 09:16:10 -0500, "vanda" <vand...@yeehaw.com>
wrote:
>.
>>
>> Oh dear, you're pro-Masonic, and therefore you are indirectly supporting
>> the devil-wroshipping aliens.
>
>Oh dear, what shall I do now??? <giggle>
>
>> > And isn't the rosicrucians based on masonry?
>>
>> They are connected with the Dero, certainly. As are the Jesuits.
>
>The Jesuits are cloaked in much mystery. They founded Georgetown
>University, which is near where I grew up...Mt.Rainier, MD, where the
>exorcist actually occurred. Blatty was a student at Georgetown at the time
>it happened. And Georgetown was a better setting for the movie. The priest
>who did the exorcision died about 15 years ago, and everyone in Mt. Rainier
>went to the funeral ('cept me, not catholic). But, it was the only time the
>exorcision was mentioned since he performed it. Funny that.
>
>> > And wasn't Aleister Crowley involved in that?
>>
>> Not that I know of, I'd have to look it up.
>
>Golden Dawn? Isn't that of a masonic nature?
>
>> > But, what I haven't figured out is, if the Templars and Masons were kind
>of
>> > custodians of the grail (or do I mean arc of the covenant?),
>>
>> The two are completely different. The neo-Templars claim to hold the
>> Ark, not the Grail.
>
>No wonder I was confused.
>
>> > then why is
>> > there a strong Jewish contingent amongst them?
>>
>> The Ark is a Jewish symbol, the Grail is a Christian symbol.
>
>Ah, thank you for explaining.
>
>> > Were you a DeMolay?
>>
>> A what? As in Ja(c?)ques deMolay, last Grand Master of the official
>> Templars?
>
>Oui oui...Jacques himself. DeMolay is an organisation for young men (boys)
>who will probably join the Masons when they grow up...
>Jacques was burned at the stake.
>
>Laura!
>
>