[BTB] - The Witches Pyramind
Leotine
The four sides of The Witches Pyramid:
TO WILL
By my Will (and the juice of Saffoo) I put my mind in motion. I will
do this. This is my Will. If I didn't Will (want) I would still be
sitting here like a cabbage. So what do you will ?? You must be able
to see the goal / outcome in your minds eye. Not only the endpoint but
all the ways and paths to achieve it. Draw a diagram. Know the plan.
By my Will so Will (Mote) it be.
Concentration is part of Will, but it should never be forced. See the
newbies with their brows knitted, eyes wide sharp, trembling like they
want a pee, trying to extinguish a candle at 10 paces by concentration
alone. You have to know how it is done, kiddywinks.
TO KNOW
Know. Knowledge. That stuff you get from the books is Instructions.
And yes, you have to know what you are doing. But this Know is
Feeling. You know it is just right. The blacksmith knows when the
metal is hot enough to hammer. You become one with the working. In the
example above, you become the candle flame.
TO DARE
If you didn't Dare, you won't Do. Dare. Take that leap of Faith that
all will be well. Go push. All magick is grey and uncertain. What
makes it work is the courage and confidence to walk on the water, to
go through the gate that is not there, to make the impossible happen.
Take the doubt and then blot it out. Ooo-ee-oo. Get that tingley
sensation.
AND TO KEEP SILIENT
Patience. Be Quiet. You don't plant a seed and then dig it back up to
see if it is growing. Let it alone. Let it be. Let the working work.
And don't blab. Go down the pub and huff and puff and boast "I can do
magic stuff". Preen and strut. Be humble lest the spell goes phut.
Nothing is more powerful than a secret never told. So wrap up the
spell and bind it round and bury it in the ground. All will be wll. It
will come to pass.
/aside/
Just a note about Will. A witch bends the world to her/his Will.
Therefore always do what you will (where have we heard that phrase
before ??). That is why you very rarely get me to promise anything. To
promise means I have given an oath that I will do something. Having
done so, I must carry out what I have Willed. Otherwise, my Will and
magick making ability gets a bit dented and tarnished. So if I
promise, it always has the rider, "as far as it is possible if it is
within my control".
/end aside/
What else for you ??
The Four corners of The Watchtowers:
East - Air
West - Water
South - Fire
North - Earth (Lithos = Stone)
The Four Tools:
The Wand
The Cup
The Athame or Sword
The Pentacle or Dish
(to be pendantic: the Pentagram is a five pointed star. A Pentacle is
an engraving (usually on a plate etc) of a pentagram.)
I'll leave it to you to figure if there is any connection between the
sides of the Pyramid, Watchtowers, Elements, and Tools. And which goes
with what or not !
(Sometimes the craft is like trying to solve a Rubik cube with 7
different coloured faces)
Hello, have you something to say ???
Yes I know a pyramid is a 3-dimestional object.
And what's that ?? I've described a Tetrahedron. Oh dear me, I hope
not. That's another part of Magick altogether.
You mean I've missed something out ?? Something I am not telling you
about. Wonder what that is ?? And wonder why ??
Leotine
'Thenie
news:14t2gv83sbp0d24lh...@4ax.com...
> This is for you. (Don't I just love the puns)
>
> The four sides of The Witches Pyramid:
>
> TO WILL
The Element Fire
> TO KNOW
<snip>
The Element Water
> TO DARE
<snip>
The Element Air
> AND TO KEEP SILIENT
<snip>
The Element Earth
> /aside/
> Just a note about Will. A witch bends the world to her/his Will.
> Therefore always do what you will (where have we heard that phrase
> before ??). That is why you very rarely get me to promise anything. To
> promise means I have given an oath that I will do something. Having
> done so, I must carry out what I have Willed. Otherwise, my Will and
> magick making ability gets a bit dented and tarnished. So if I
> promise, it always has the rider, "as far as it is possible if it is
> within my control".
> /end aside/
>
> What else for you ??
> The Four corners of The Watchtowers:
> East - Air
Yellow - Spring - Sunrise - the Eagle
> West - Water
Blue - Autumn - Sunset - the Serpent
> South - Fire
Red - Summer - Noon - the Lion (Cat)
> North - Earth (Lithos = Stone)
Green - Winter - Midnight - the Bear/Bull
> The Four Tools:
> The Wand
Wand for the individual; Staff for the coven
> The Cup
Cup/Chalice for the individual; cauldron for the coven
> The Athame or Sword
Athame for the individual; sword for the coven
> The Pentacle or Dish
> (to be pendantic: the Pentagram is a five pointed star. A Pentacle is
> an engraving (usually on a plate etc) of a pentagram.)
Small pentacle or paten for the individual; coat-of-arms or larger pentacle
(for holding the cakes for consecration) for the coven
> I'll leave it to you to figure if there is any connection between the
> sides of the Pyramid, Watchtowers, Elements, and Tools. And which goes
> with what or not !
Oh, I've inadvertantly given some strong clues to them as might not know
'til now...
> (Sometimes the craft is like trying to solve a Rubik cube with 7
> different coloured faces)
I should tell you about how the zodiac features in all this (clue:
crossreference the 4 Elements and the 3 Qualities and you get the 12 Signs;
but there's more than that, when you get into the Seasons and the
Lunations)...
> Hello, have you something to say ???
> Yes I know a pyramid is a 3-dimestional object.
> And what's that ?? I've described a Tetrahedron. Oh dear me, I hope
> not. That's another part of Magick altogether.
Go on...
> You mean I've missed something out ?? Something I am not telling you
> about. Wonder what that is ?? And wonder why ??
Actually, that could be lots of things. You tease...
-'Thenie
francis freespirit
<J...@Tesco.net> writes
>Yes I know a pyramid is a 3-dimestional object. And what's that ?? I've
>described a Tetrahedron. Oh dear me, I hope not. That's another part of
>Magick altogether.
>
>You mean I've missed something out ?? Something I am not telling you
>about. Wonder what that is ?? And wonder why ??
On the one occasion I remember attending a Theosophical Society meeting,
the man talked about regular dodecahedrons - and he had little coloured
models to prove his point(s). :))
--
Francis
Leotine
>> I'll leave it to you to figure if there is any connection between the
>> sides of the Pyramid, Watchtowers, Elements, and Tools. And which goes
>> with what or not !
I was playing that Kate Bush song yesterday...
Michael on my left
Uriel to my right
Raphael to my front
Gabriel just a bit to the left of Michael
Paddy behind
& etc
from the right. Raphael, Micheal, Gabriel, then Uriel.
Azreal we don't let in.
>> Hello, have you something to say ???
>> Yes I know a pyramid is a 3-dimestional object.
>> And what's that ?? I've described a Tetrahedron. Oh dear me, I hope
>> not. That's another part of Magick altogether.
>
>Go on...
And the Grand Master Goon comes out and belts me on the head with a
wet wobbly flatfish. "Tetragrammaton, you idiot", he shouts and then
struts huffily away. That's what we call the Yuk Hit With Haddock
ritual. But thats just me.
>> You mean I've missed something out ?? Something I am not telling you
>> about. Wonder what that is ?? And wonder why ??
>
>Actually, that could be lots of things. You tease...
I do that. but what is the fun of Hide & Seek when there is nothing to
search for. And when you get it all on a plate and made easy will you
ever learn ?? Growing is.
Leotine
Baird Stafford
<snip>
> from the right. Raphael, Micheal, Gabriel, then Uriel.
> Azreal we don't let in.
And yet, Azrael is one of the major Lords of the Great Wheel....
Blessed be,
Baird
Ventana
"Leotine" <J...@Tesco.net> wrote in message
> "'Thenie" <mtn-...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >> I'll leave it to you to figure if there is any connection between the
> >> sides of the Pyramid, Watchtowers, Elements, and Tools. And which goes
> >> with what or not !
> I was playing that Kate Bush song yesterday...
> Michael on my left
> Uriel to my right
> Raphael to my front
> Gabriel just a bit to the left of Michael
> Paddy behind
> & etc
>
> from the right. Raphael, Micheal, Gabriel, then Uriel.
> Azreal we don't let in.
>
>
had a child recently. In regard to the lyrics to the song "Lily," I highly
suggest you purchase her video/dvd titled "Kate Bush: The Line, The Cross
and The Curve." It is basically the video album based on her "Red Shoes"
release. It has this song included and cameos the actual Lily, who, IIRC,
is a psychic in England. In a high tech, computer-generated special effects
world, I truly appreciate Kate's theatrical style. She's a gem.
-V
Ventana
"Baird Stafford" <ba...@newstaff.com> wrote in message
news:1fxj2l9.s6fjrjk1gyv2N%ba...@newstaff.com...
I remember all during Catholic school we were taught about Michael, Gabriel
and Raphael being archangels. I have 2 questions:
1) Why weren't we taught about Uriel and Azreal. Something wrong with them?
They associated with sex or something - tee, hee, hee ;-)
2) Please tell me how angels, who I think originated out of Christianity (or
perhaps *modified* for use), have come into magickal use. IIRC, the use of
the *angels* or Lords of the Great Wheel as you call them, was through the
practice of ceremonial magick. Am I correct? How and when were the two
blended?
-V
Baird Stafford
<snip>
> I remember all during Catholic school we were taught about Michael, Gabriel
> and Raphael being archangels. I have 2 questions:
> 1) Why weren't we taught about Uriel and Azreal. Something wrong with them?
> They associated with sex or something - tee, hee, hee ;-)
I have no earthly idea why Uriel (or Oriel, as the Name is spelt in the
GD) was not mentioned. Azrael is the name of the Angel of Death (not an
Archangel, AFAIK), which is why I called him a "Lord of the Great
Wheel."
> 2) Please tell me how angels, who I think originated out of Christianity (or
> perhaps *modified* for use), have come into magickal use. IIRC, the use of
> the *angels* or Lords of the Great Wheel as you call them, was through the
> practice of ceremonial magick. Am I correct? How and when were the two
> blended?
As you surmise, the practice of using Angels in Pagan Magic,
particularly Wiccan Magic, was imported from Ceremonial practices -
first by Gardner, who tied Ceremonial Magic into his published work; and
later by Alex Sanders, who seems to have placed even more emphasis on
Ceremonial practice. In that sense, therefore, the Angels and
Archangels have been a part of Wiccan practice from the very beginning.
Many Ceremonial magicians of my acquaintance regard the archangelic
Names as being, er, "scientific" formulae rather than being attached to
actual Entities. This view is at least marginally justified, I think,
by Gematria, a Kabbalistic practice that arose because the ancient
Hebrews appeared not to have had a separate system of writing numbers
but instead used the various letters of the alephbeth (my term) to
represent them. The various Names do, therefore, also represent
mathematical concepts of one sort or another.
Incidentally and for those who don't know, the various sigils are traced
out by moving from (Hebrew) letter to letter on what are now called
"magic squares," or, alternatively, from number to number on the same
grids.
A very good starting place for those who wish to know more about
Gematria is a book that Leotine listed as being in his library: Israel
Regardie's THE GOLDEN DAWN. I also recommend Ellen Cannon Reed's THE
WITCHES' KABBALAH for further study by those who have difficulty with
the overtly Christian associations embraced by the Golden Dawn. A third
resource that might be of interest is Donald Michael Kraig's MODERN
MAGICK (either edition).
Blessed be,
Baird
mist
> > The four sides of The Witches Pyramid:
> > TO WILL
> The Element Fire
>
> > TO KNOW
> The Element Water
>
> > TO DARE
> The Element Air
>
> > AND TO KEEP SILIENT
> The Element Earth
And to think I've being getting Water and Air around the other way for
all these years.
Know-Air the quiet secrets,
carried, hidden in the open
All to see, few to know.
Home of the word symbols
Carrier of communication
Intellect, moving, growing
wild dreams uncontainable.
Great key to the mind
Key to the great mind.
wind winding binding.
Water-Changer
Fluid forces moulding with
the strongest of all elements
and none will withstand.
Flowing continuously
Great currents, minor currents
and great swirling eddies
(Eddies in the space time continuum.
What's he doing there?)
High pressure driving
Low pressure receiving
Always finding a way
Damp germinator
Life giving blood fire
Key to existance here.
Here is the key to existance.
rivers winding binding.
In The Darkness
> "Baird Stafford" <ba...@newstaff.com> wrote in message
> news:1fxj2l9.s6fjrjk1gyv2N%ba...@newstaff.com...
>>Leotine <J...@Tesco.net> wrote:
>><snip>
>>>from the right. Raphael, Micheal, Gabriel, then Uriel.
>>>Azreal we don't let in.
>>
>>And yet, Azrael is one of the major Lords of the Great Wheel....
>>
>>Blessed be,
>>Baird
>
> I remember all during Catholic school we were taught about Michael, Gabriel
> and Raphael being archangels. I have 2 questions:
>
> 1) Why weren't we taught about Uriel and Azreal. Something wrong with them?
> They associated with sex or something - tee, hee, hee ;-)
These angels are the more advanced classes, I guess.
> 2) Please tell me how angels, who I think originated out of Christianity (or
> perhaps *modified* for use), have come into magickal use.
Angels originated from Christianity ?
You are either American, or English, and most certainly from
a Christian background.....
Angels originated, as we call them, from -=Judaism=-..
(There are arguments tracing it back to the Egyptian MAAT,
but we will save that for another day....)
Remember, Jesus was -=Jewish=-... when he wasn't practicing
Witchcraft, anyway. ;)
However, the answer resides in the Book of Enoch, and the Jewish
religion... and relates as to why the book of Enoch -=isn't=-
in most modern bibles.....
Enochian Magic was based upon summoning and commanding the
Angels.... the Magic was -=SO=- effective, that the Jewish people
began to worship the Angels...
The Rabbi's were adamant that one should ONLY worship G-d,
not the Angels... But, the people were getting results,
and continued to worship them....
So, the Rabbi's "de-cannonized" the Book. "-=That=- should stop the
people from worshipping the Angels..."
Also removed, at about that time, was the Book of Noah..
(Not as important, for our discussion, but related)
However, I suspect the Rabbi's may have tampered with something
they shouldn't.... The boomerang effect of this action gave
rise to many a legend, and religion... including Christianity.
The book in Qumran,( The Dead Sea Scrolls ), that prophesied
of a coming Child of Destiny, called "The Son of Man",
a Messiah of his Generation, and Prophet,
was.... you guessed it...
Enoch.
Crowley wrote several books, as this was considered
one of the most powerful Magic/Mysticism systems going....
(Hence the reaction of the People and the Rabbi's)
And he wanted it's power....
I have stated this once before, and such cultural
tidbits are the residue of this truth...
Witchcraft was part of Judaism, until about
the fall of Nimrod. The Rabbi's in Solomon's
temple attempted to re-unite them back to Judaism,
and failed... and later, Jesus did the same thing,
with a little more success....
It wasn't till much later the Christians turned
against their own heritage... The Dark Ages, and
the Burning Times.
The real "baddies" in the Bible have been translated
to appear to be "Witches".. it was actually Idolaters,
and Poisoners... to name a few. An innovation you
can thank the Christians for....
According to tradition/legend, The "Witches" were the
Original "B'nai Noachide" members,
or more simply put, "Children of Noah"....
And as such, is recognized as "having a place
in the world to come", according to the Jewish
G-d.
The 613 "Mitzvot" were only intended for the direct
descendants of Israel to keep and practice as traditions..
BTW: This includes the 10 commandments...
There are actually only a few practices that the G-d
of the bible asked of non direct descendants
of the Israelites..
These few requirements are often represented by
a point within a circle... and a couple more marks,
that represent something that eventually became known as
the "St. John's Days"
The witches Esbats/Sabbats more than fulfill these requirements,
throw in the 7 laws of Noah and your home.
Following "The Rede", as it is written today, would
close the gap on the 7 laws.
The very reason, as I understand it, that our Military
recognize Wicca as a legitimate religion. Even is "W"
is a little too dense to understand such things...
'Thenie
news:6f03249e.0307...@posting.google.com...
> "'Thenie" <mtn-...@prodigy.net> wrote
> > "Leotine" <J...@Tesco.net> wrote in message
>
> > > The four sides of The Witches Pyramid:
> > > TO WILL
> > The Element Fire
> >
> > > TO KNOW
> > The Element Water
> >
> > > TO DARE
> > The Element Air
> >
> > > AND TO KEEP SILIENT
> > The Element Earth
>
> And to think I've being getting Water and Air around the other way for
> all these years.
Dare and Air work for me. Air would be considered Mercury/Hermes's domain,
and he's the god of luck, gamblers, lawyers, cheats and liars. Air and dare
are the initiators of action, the place of beginnings, as is the dawn.
Consider how a bird learns to fly, daring to try the breeze.
Know and Water work for me. Water corresponds to emotion, to empathy. It
is through feeling a thing that you *know* what it's about, through
communing with it. Talk all you want about fear, about love, about
childbirth, about pain; it is the experience of it (or the empathic sharing
of another's experience) that makes it meaningful, that results in
understanding. It is through the dissolution of barriers of individuation
that one can flow together with others' feelings and *know* and achieve
wisdom. True knowledge is not the detail, it's the content that runs deeply
below/behind detail.
Then again, if otherwise works for you then go with it.
-'Thenie
Alan Young
<no...@onecall.net> wrote:
> However, the answer resides in the Book of Enoch, and the Jewish
> religion... and relates as to why the book of Enoch -=isn't=-
> in most modern bibles.....
That's interesting -- where *is* said book found?
> Enochian Magic was based upon summoning and commanding the
> Angels.... the Magic was -=SO=- effective, that the Jewish people
> began to worship the Angels...
>
> The Rabbi's were adamant that one should ONLY worship G-d,
> not the Angels... But, the people were getting results,
> and continued to worship them....
>
> So, the Rabbi's "de-cannonized" the Book. "-=That=- should stop the
> people from worshipping the Angels..."
And the source of this history is ... ?
This is a fascinating story, and new to me, so i'd be interested in
some followup.
--
Hummingbear
http://www.hummingbear.net/~aayoung/
I dreamed of a life that was pure and true
I dreamed of a job only I could do...
---Monk's Dream
Baird Stafford
<snip>
> That's interesting -- where *is* said book found?
It's in the PSEUDEPIGRAPHA. Enoch I is the book that is cited in the
New Testament; Enoch II was written later and Enoch III was *much* later
(it's a screed against the Bulgarian practice of buggery, apparently
written by a "missionary" to that people).
<snip>
Blessed be,
Baird
Leotine
Ah Yes,
The Witches Pyramid may have 4 sides to the base, but as you get up to
the apex it is more like a cone.
Leotine
In The Darkness
> In article <3F060DD7...@onecall.net>, In The Darkness
> <no...@onecall.net> wrote:
>
>> However, the answer resides in the Book of Enoch, and the Jewish
>> religion... and relates as to why the book of Enoch -=isn't=-
>> in most modern bibles.....
>
> That's interesting -- where *is* said book found?
Now that gets interesting, a few churches have copies
published, like the LDS... but, the LDS version is a "channeled"
one....based roughly upon what has become known as Enoch I.
Another Version, now known as Enoch II, was carried
to Africa, according to Legend from Solomon's temple,
by Queen Sheba ,along with a copy of the Ark of the Covenant.
This event was caused by the very attempt I mentioned
to reemerge the religions that I was talking about.. when it failed,
Solomon was commanded to build additional temples for
his wives to worship in, and Sheba left town.
Enoch I, an un-altered copy, was subsequently found in the
caves of Qumran, dating to almost 2000 year ago. Making it,
btw, one of the oldest biblical documents known to man...
Enoch II appears to be the same basic story, just in actual
circulation for 2000 years... and experienced drift.
However, often books omit the Enoch Scroll, as there
is a bit of a superstition about publishing it..
For some reason, people often die when they publish the book.
Even on the Dead Sea Scroll project... the director died shortly
after deciding to publish it... shortly thereafter, Enoch was
removed from the subsequent publishing... so, many a book stops
short of that one... but, enough non superstitious people exist that
it is available..
You can, however, find it's text online. The better copies
and translations also lead into the Book of Noah, as well.
>> Enochian Magic was based upon summoning and commanding the
>> Angels.... the Magic was -=SO=- effective, that the Jewish people
>> began to worship the Angels...
>>
>> The Rabbi's were adamant that one should ONLY worship G-d,
>> not the Angels... But, the people were getting results,
>> and continued to worship them....
>>
>> So, the Rabbi's "de-cannonized" the Book. "-=That=- should stop the
>> people from worshipping the Angels..."
>
>
> And the source of this history is ... ?
Writings of the Sanhedrin, and Josephus. You may want to
start with the Talmud.
>
> This is a fascinating story, and new to me, so i'd be interested in
> some followup.
>
Sure. You got it.
In The Darkness
> Alan Young <aay...@sonic.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>>That's interesting -- where *is* said book found?
>
> It's in the PSEUDEPIGRAPHA.
And Apocrypha... and in this case, Enoch is Apocrypha,
which is counted among the Psuedepigrapha...
The psuedepigrapha includes works of pure fiction,
never intended to be mistaken for actual writings of the
Prophets. Enoch I and II, are considered legitimate books.
Hence the clarification.
> Enoch I is the book that is cited in the
> New Testament;
You betcha!
ba...@dmcom.net
>
> Alan Young wrote:
> > In article <3F060DD7...@onecall.net>, In The Darkness
> > <no...@onecall.net> wrote:
> >
> >> However, the answer resides in the Book of Enoch, and the Jewish
> >> religion... and relates as to why the book of Enoch -=isn't=-
> >> in most modern bibles.....
> >
> > That's interesting -- where *is* said book found?
>
http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm offers the text as
presented
"The Book of Enoch
From-The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
R.H. Charles Oxford: The Clarendon Press "
--
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Jackdaw
"In The Darkness" <no...@onecall.net> wrote in message
news:3F06E97A...@onecall.net...
> Alan Young wrote:
> > In article <3F060DD7...@onecall.net>, In The Darkness
> > <no...@onecall.net> wrote:
SNIP
Googled the story and .. gosh!
It's all there innit?
Fiery thrones, angels, visionary experiences.
Beautiful prose that.
--
Jackdaw ( UK )
collector of facts, trivia and bright twinkly things!
Alan Young
> > > That's interesting -- where *is* said book found?
>
> http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm offers the text as
> presented
> "The Book of Enoch
Thanks!
Baird Stafford
<snip>
> And Apocrypha... and in this case, Enoch is Apocrypha,
> which is counted among the Psuedepigrapha...
Not as I understand it. The Apocrypha were defined by various synods
over the years. The Pseudepigrapha have been found since the last synod
to deal with the matter (and never mind that at least three sets of
"Apocrypha" exist: one for the Roman Church, one for the Eastern
Church, and at least one common to the various Protestant
denominations).
> The psuedepigrapha includes works of pure fiction,
> never intended to be mistaken for actual writings of the
> Prophets. Enoch I and II, are considered legitimate books.
> Hence the clarification.
Again, I shall have to disagree. *All* the Pseudepigrapha were
"intended to be mistaken for actual writings of the Prophets. The
concepts of lit'rary piracy, trademarks and the like are relatively
modern. Before that, the common practice when one had something to say
one wanted taken seriously by a large audience was to ascribe it to an
existing "authority."
Of the Books of Enoch, only Enoch I is consitent with citations provided
by later writers.
Blessed be,
Baird
Baird Stafford
<snip>
> Googled the story and .. gosh!
> It's all there innit?
> Fiery thrones, angels, visionary experiences.
> Beautiful prose that.
Don't forget the stables and horses, though. They're an important part
of it all!
Blessed be,
Baird
In The Darkness
> "In The Darkness" <no...@onecall.net> wrote in message
> news:3F06E97A...@onecall.net...
>>Alan Young wrote:
>>>In article <3F060DD7...@onecall.net>, In The Darkness
>>><no...@onecall.net> wrote:
> SNIP
> Googled the story and .. gosh!
> It's all there innit?
> Fiery thrones, angels, visionary experiences.
> Beautiful prose that.
Yup. Remember though, Enoch had a -=vision=-...
It is best to not get too literal.
A mistake of the latter church, best avoided, IMHO.
:)
In The Darkness
But, I could be rusty.... I will research and post
back.. (Apocrypha vs Psuedepegripha)
However, you are right regarding Enoch I being
consistent with the latter references, II and BTW,
I had never heard of III, had serious drift.
I now reference the versions reconstructed from the
Dead Sea Scrolls, they are the least changed and
oldest known versions to exist.
Old being roughly equated to unchanged.
In The Darkness
mist
The emotional side is one reason I don't usually link water to
knowledge. That and the air folk that like to play their wee games
and play "you don't know" which forges them a link to silence.
> Then again, if otherwise works for you then go with it.
Zigactly. By shifting the elements and their associations we get
subtle differences in who and what we're working. A tweak here and
there and new meaning! works just like magic :)
In The Darkness
> Jackdaw <di...@jackdaw-crafts.co.uk> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>Googled the story and .. gosh!
>>It's all there innit?
>>Fiery thrones, angels, visionary experiences.
>>Beautiful prose that.
Do not forget that this begins
"Enoch had a -=vision=-...."
That helps put some of the Imagery into
perspective....
More interesting is what else is there,
for example the sign to the Noachides that
G-d understands man ...
is the Rainbow.
Part of why it has been adopted in certain
modern movements.
Also, a "Crystal Cathedral" that Enoch visits is
interesting. Next time you visit a New Age shop,
you know the origin of the practice...
Something to remember about Christianity, it was
layered... in Qumran, different level priests
actually met and studied at different times..
To prevent revealing light the others weren't
ready for....
And Never forget, the Christians had their
High Priest crucified, there are some secrets
that appear to remain in the darkness to them...afaict.
Perhaps, because they lost the only one that
knew....
Who knows ?
To put it into perspective, one must realize
that the Old Testament was broken down into
three parts to the Jewish People...
The Neviim, The Kethuvim, and the Torah.
Roughly: The Prophets, the Writings, and the Instructions.
Sin, as we think of it today, was "behavior
outside the instructions", and "risked g-ds judgment"..
For example, eating shellfish. If you were allergic
to shellfish, like a lot of jewish descendants, you got
G-ds judgment. (You died) Otherwise, you had merely risked it.
(Of course, you cannot know -all- the reasons for Torah! ;)
However, it assists in illustrating what was meant by
"risking G-ds judgment", and "Vengeance is -=mine=- sayeth the Lord",
Perhaps, why they told them "No, it isn't -=yours=- preacher man,
it is G-ds.", as many an early Christian wanted to have
people stoned to death for "sinning". (Remember The Burning Times ?
The Spanish inquisition ? The Dark Ages ?)
(Many forget why temple and temporal are similar in
english, IMHO. )
It also helps clarify "The Wages of Sin is Death"
thing that became so popular among the Baptists, eh ?
Help put it into perspective, as it were.
Kethuvim were "the writings" of the tribe of Israel, both
history and attempts to understand the Nevi'im. As it was
believed that the Nevi'im didn't always understand, themselves.
An important point, BTW. ;)
And finally the most important to the crowd here, "The Neviim",
the Neviim were considered to be the most pure descendants of
their lineage (which BTW, came ultimately from Noah),
among the tribes of Israel. Remember, Noah foresaw the flood...
(See-ing) and G-d explained what to do... (prophesizing),
and he called together the animals (The Gift of Adam).
"Prophets" is a loose translation because English is limited.
Neviim (literally children of Nevi) were comprised of several gifts,
only one of which was prophecy. To foretell the future was "Seeing"
not prophecy, prophecy was to "channel" g-d, a real-time mouthpiece,
as it were.
There were also "seers", "prophets", and those capable of "remote sight",
and other "Gifts" and these skills varied by individual..
but, now days, we bundle them together into the one word.
So much is lost, in the bundling.
It is said the Elder Children of Noah had it the strongest, and
gave rise to the Neviim. Technically, other children of Noah
have these gifts, but among the Judaic tribe it was strongest
in The children of Nevi. That these skills exist among
the children of Noah, in -=other=- than the descendants of Nevi,
is illustrated in the book of Jonah....
The Gentile fishermen "divine" the cause of the storm
is Jonah, accurately, according to the account.
Which give rise to other children of Noah, and the Language they
use to describe these paranormal phenomenon... "Seeing" is known
more commonly as "Second Sight" or more importantly,
"Witches Sight" among the English,
(See: back on topic, eh ? ;)
and those of -=Gaelic=- descent, especially among the Druidic
lineage... are known for most of these activities. (As recorded
by the Early Celtic Church's Monks[ Abbots of Dunkirkle ])
And the druids were big on familial descent, eh ? So much so
they were considered a "caste"...
Another Gift is said to be "The Gift of Adam", to call and communicate
with Animals.
"Horsewhisperers", as it were.....
Say, any Witches you know good with animals ?
;)
The major differentiation in such activity, and the
forbidden activity of the bible called
in english "witchcraft", was the gifts that
were used in "Diety's Name", were acceptable...
Those done for Idols, weren't.
And of course, the Jesuit branch declaring
that there would be no more prophets....
created a hitch.. anyone with these gifts,
were subsequently burned alive.
Couldn't have anyone challenging the authority
of the church, eh ? After all, they couldn't possibly be
prophets, they were "witches".... gotta get rid of them.
Of course, at least on such "witch" placed a King on
the Throne.... but, then was burned for her troubles.
See the problem with bundling it all in one word,
and an imprecise one, at that ?
Sad, really.
But, as I said earlier, the Witches fall beneath the
Noachide covenant.....it is only that the Christians
who have "tampered" with their own Bible, have a hard time
accepting it, or anyone else, for that matter.
Oh, and on a closing note... Remember, the
Story of Noah actually -first- appears in the
writings from Mesopotamia, Gilgamesh.
Ancient Summaria.
I wonder how that last one is on topic, eh ?
:P
Hint, when witches finally get tired of reincarnating,
where do they go ?
Shhh... don't say it.
:)
'Thenie
> > Know and Water work for me. Water corresponds to emotion, to empathy.
>
> The emotional side is one reason I don't usually link water to
> knowledge. That and the air folk that like to play their wee games
> and play "you don't know" which forges them a link to silence.
But that's teasing, which relates to daring again; somewhat like bluffing in
games of chance.
Air is always moving and staying nowhere. As an exercise to learn more
about the Elements, I tried one Spring to teach myself juggling. I didn't
get very far, but I did learn an important thing about juggling and the
Element Air: it's not about catching the object, it's about releasing it.
The empty hand is what is required.
Air works in logic, but logic is rooted in rationalizing, not reality. Air
is left-brain activity, which takes in details; Water is right-brain, which
processes the details to create connections and meaning. Air trades in
those details, but the details may be false; hence Air being the domain of
Knowledge (the collection of facts and factoids) but not Wisdom (the deeper
meaning behind the details, and the knowledge of how seemingly antithetical
details can be related). I think "to know' relates more to the deeper
meaning, as in 'to know about Life/Reality', than it does to the general
collecting of bits of information.
A friend of mine once suffered an injury to her head (large chunk of
concrete fell on her from her backyard garden wall), and for several weeks
following (luckily, she recovered fully thereafter) she took in details but
was clueless in processing what she witnessed. At one point during this
time, she passed a church where an event was in progress. She noted the
flowers, the men in dark dressy attire, the limosine, and the gathering and
surmised (guessed, really; dared a guess) that she had happened onto a
funeral; in actuality it was a wedding. There were nuances she could not
take in, emotional cues.
Emotional cues point to the deeper meaning, what 'really' is going on. The
logical mind can deny it and carry on ignoring the subtext, but the
emotional facts remain. If Water is emotional (feelings, really; emoting is
an imposing activity more properly religated to the Element Fire, in my
estimation), the Air is mental. As such, Air manipulates the information as
needed (manipulation, manual dexterity, hands, all would be Air domain) to
accomplish its goals (as a masculine polarity Element); information then
becomes a tool in the hands of the Element Air. As such, Water plumbs
feelings to find what's behind the surface meaning, to help explain things
and give understanding (true knowing); information becomes support or
resolution in the hands of the Element Water.
The air folk that play "you don't know" care more about the game than the
information they use as game pieces. And the goal in any game is *winning*,
not truth. It's the Element Fire that's known for honor; Air is known for
expediency. And silence as a game strategy is unstable and unreliable;
silence as the Element Earth manifests it (from inactivity and resistence to
change) is far more like real silence than a pause in information flow.
> > Then again, if otherwise works for you then go with it.
>
> Zigactly. By shifting the elements and their associations we get
> subtle differences in who and what we're working. A tweak here and
> there and new meaning! works just like magic :)
I hope you will take what went before in this post not as a refutation of
your method, just an exploration (and explanation) of mine...
-'Thenie
Ventana
"In The Darkness" <no...@onecall.net> wrote in message
news:3F060DD7...@onecall.net...
> Ventana wrote:
> > "Baird Stafford" <ba...@newstaff.com> wrote in message
> > news:1fxj2l9.s6fjrjk1gyv2N%ba...@newstaff.com...
> >>Leotine <J...@Tesco.net> wrote:
> >><snip>
> >>>from the right. Raphael, Micheal, Gabriel, then Uriel.
> >>>Azreal we don't let in.
> >>
> >>And yet, Azrael is one of the major Lords of the Great Wheel....
> >>
> >>Blessed be,
> >>Baird
> >
> > I remember all during Catholic school we were taught about Michael,
Gabriel
> > and Raphael being archangels. I have 2 questions:
> >
> > 1) Why weren't we taught about Uriel and Azreal. Something wrong with
them?
> > They associated with sex or something - tee, hee, hee ;-)
>
> These angels are the more advanced classes, I guess.
>
> > 2) Please tell me how angels, who I think originated out of Christianity
(or
> > perhaps *modified* for use), have come into magickal use.
>
> Angels originated from Christianity ?
Well, I had a feeling they pre-dated Christianity, hence the reference to
modification. Seems like almost everthing was *borrowed* in x-ianity. But
then that probably happens with a lot cultural and religious transitions in
general.
> You are either American, or English, and most certainly from
> a Christian background.....
American and raised VERY Catholic. Although, I haven't been x-ian for
almost 20 years.
> Angels originated, as we call them, from -=Judaism=-..
>
> (There are arguments tracing it back to the Egyptian MAAT,
> but we will save that for another day....)
>
Oh yeah, now I remember. My teachings are escaping me. :-( But I imagine
other cultures had equivalent of angels (perhaps not with a heirarchical
structure).
> Remember, Jesus was -=Jewish=-... when he wasn't practicing
> Witchcraft, anyway. ;)
>
> However, the answer resides in the Book of Enoch, and the Jewish
> religion... and relates as to why the book of Enoch -=isn't=-
> in most modern bibles.....
>
> Enochian Magic was based upon summoning and commanding the
> Angels.... the Magic was -=SO=- effective, that the Jewish people
> began to worship the Angels...
Okay, so are you then saying the use of Angels for formal magical purposes
dates to the Book of Enoch?
> The Rabbi's were adamant that one should ONLY worship G-d,
> not the Angels... But, the people were getting results,
> and continued to worship them....
>
> So, the Rabbi's "de-cannonized" the Book. "-=That=- should stop the
> people from worshipping the Angels..."
>
> Also removed, at about that time, was the Book of Noah..
> (Not as important, for our discussion, but related)
>
> However, I suspect the Rabbi's may have tampered with something
> they shouldn't.... The boomerang effect of this action gave
> rise to many a legend, and religion... including Christianity.
Kind of reminds of the the following quote "What you resists, persists."
>
> The book in Qumran,( The Dead Sea Scrolls ), that prophesied
> of a coming Child of Destiny, called "The Son of Man",
> a Messiah of his Generation, and Prophet,
> was.... you guessed it...
>
> Enoch.
>
> Crowley wrote several books, as this was considered
> one of the most powerful Magic/Mysticism systems going....
> (Hence the reaction of the People and the Rabbi's)
> And he wanted it's power....
So, did Crowly add his own brand magick in regard to using Angels? In
other words, how strictly did Crowley follow Enochian Magick?
Thanks for the detailed response.
-V
Ventana
> Ventana <ven...@indra.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > I remember all during Catholic school we were taught about Michael,
Gabriel
> > and Raphael being archangels. I have 2 questions:
>
> > 1) Why weren't we taught about Uriel and Azreal. Something wrong with
them?
> > They associated with sex or something - tee, hee, hee ;-)
>
> I have no earthly idea why Uriel (or Oriel, as the Name is spelt in the
> GD) was not mentioned. Azrael is the name of the Angel of Death (not an
> Archangel, AFAIK), which is why I called him a "Lord of the Great
> Wheel."
I yeah, now I can see why we weren't taught about Azrael. What aspect is
attributed to Uriel?
> Many Ceremonial magicians of my acquaintance regard the archangelic
> Names as being, er, "scientific" formulae rather than being attached to
> actual Entities.
How did this happen and why? Or is that too detailed of a question to ask?
Does the use of scientific formulae for archangelic names date back to the
Book of Enoch that was mentioned in another post?
This view is at least marginally justified, I think,
> by Gematria, a Kabbalistic practice that arose because the ancient
> Hebrews appeared not to have had a separate system of writing numbers
> but instead used the various letters of the alephbeth (my term) to
> represent them. The various Names do, therefore, also represent
> mathematical concepts of one sort or another.
>
> Incidentally and for those who don't know, the various sigils are traced
> out by moving from (Hebrew) letter to letter on what are now called
> "magic squares," or, alternatively, from number to number on the same
> grids.
>
> A very good starting place for those who wish to know more about
> Gematria is a book that Leotine listed as being in his library: Israel
> Regardie's THE GOLDEN DAWN. I also recommend Ellen Cannon Reed's THE
> WITCHES' KABBALAH for further study by those who have difficulty with
> the overtly Christian associations embraced by the Golden Dawn. A third
> resource that might be of interest is Donald Michael Kraig's MODERN
> MAGICK (either edition).
I have the last book you mentioned. I was really interested in the book at
the bookstore, but when I got it home and I started reading it, it was all
to complicated. Once I think magick has become too complicated and
convoluted, I am not sure how effective it is. But, this is my opinion as I
believe less is more.
-V
Ventana
<ba...@dmcom.net> wrote in message news:3F072E...@dmcom.net...
> In The Darkness wrote:
> >
> > Alan Young wrote:
> > > In article <3F060DD7...@onecall.net>, In The Darkness
> > > <no...@onecall.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> However, the answer resides in the Book of Enoch, and the Jewish
> > >> religion... and relates as to why the book of Enoch -=isn't=-
> > >> in most modern bibles.....
> > >
> > > That's interesting -- where *is* said book found?
> >
>
> http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm offers the text as
> presented
>
> "The Book of Enoch
>
> From-The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament
> R.H. Charles Oxford: The Clarendon Press "
>
Names and Functions of the 7 Archangels.
-V
In The Darkness
Remember, contrary to modern interpretations, Christianity
was meant to Unite all religions into One. The explains the
name of the church being "Catholic", meaning "Universal".
It borrowed from many a religion. Rosary, for example was
borrowed from the Bhuddists. Burning Candles, instead of
incense, from the Witches...
The list goes on, but helps explain the plethora of
Coptic and Gnostic texts coming out of the first 200
years of the practice.
<snip for space>
>> Enochian Magic was based upon summoning and commanding the
>> Angels.... the Magic was -=SO=- effective, that the Jewish people
>> began to worship the Angels...
>
>
> Okay, so are you then saying the use of Angels for formal magical purposes
> dates to the Book of Enoch?
Yup.
<space snip again>
> Kind of reminds of the the following quote "What you resists, persists."
:)
>
>> The book in Qumran,( The Dead Sea Scrolls ), that prophesied
>> of a coming Child of Destiny, called "The Son of Man",
>> a Messiah of his Generation, and Prophet,
>> was.... you guessed it...
>>
>> Enoch.
>>
>> Crowley wrote several books, as this was considered
>> one of the most powerful Magic/Mysticism systems going....
>> (Hence the reaction of the People and the Rabbi's)
>> And he wanted it's power....
>
>
> So, did Crowly add his own brand magick in regard to using Angels? In
> other words, how strictly did Crowley follow Enochian Magick?
Hrrmmm. Good question. A study of the Gnostic Mass would say closely,
however, other of his works, loosely. The catch is, nobody really knows
for sure.... it is only recently we have been able to put together
less adulterated versions of this book...
I might suggest to start reading, and come to your own conclusion!
:)
>
> Thanks for the detailed response.
I feel I have done insufficient reading -=recently=- to comment
in detail on this one. Perhaps in a couple months.....
:)
>
> -V
>
>
In The Darkness
A few interesting things can be gleaned from these documents...
We were vegetarians in this society, until after the flood...
("Sinned against birds" and ,blah, blah.... "ate them", actually.)
The "Shaitan's" ("Rebellious Ones from the Heavens") of this document
were cast down into a pit,
-= here on Earth =-...
So, where is Hell ?
More succinctly -=Sheol=-...
Yup.
And -=who=- do you cast the scapegoat down to,
in the old ritual mentioned in the Old Testament ?
Yup.
Isn't interesting that Azazel wasn't the leader, but
due to the binding, got the blame ?
See above ritual.
So, there went hell.... as you know it,
and Satan "the singular".
You know, the red skinned guy, with the goatee,
two horns, pitchfork, hairy legs, goats feet, pointed tail,
and barbed tongue... dressed like a gentleman,
always with a Cane, it seems...
Red Skin: Islam "made from the fires of the earth"
China: Daemons have red skin.
Indians... China really didn't like us, did they ? ;)
(I digress... )
Two Horns: The Horned One.
Pitchfork: Poseidon - Those Ancient Mariners were annoying.
Hairy Legs: Pan
Goats Feet: Demon of Ancient Judaica, perhaps the Scape Goat,
-=after=- "the blaming"... Among other symbols.
Oh, and when you finally read it through, you will also find that
all those things taught to those women from the "Rebellious Ones"
were actually the "Lesser Secrets of Heaven".
(Mystes) From whence we derive the word "Mystery".
And G-d knew the Angels would teach Man (Woman, actually) those
things.... they fell for it, and rebelled.
So, now you [Man] are stuck with them, and have "damned yourself" to
your destiny here on flawed earth,
( a coming massive flood, among other things).
Interesting that many a church kept trying to make people
stop using these "Mystes", Color... Painting of the eyes...
Cutting of Roots... Steel.....The Measurement of Things..
(Think Amish, or Mennonite.. or even the Nuns Habit...)
(Could you imagine giving up the measurement of things ?
Either "weighing of things", or as some say, "money".... ?)
Or, say... Steel ?
That they should remain with us, till the end of time, was
part of the punishment dished out by G-d.
They give rise to Society,
and Society "Sifts you like Wheat!"
Sound familiar ?
>
> -V
>
>
In The Darkness
from the Gaelic Nations were supposed to have taken
place during this time...
As Enoch dried up, and men turned to eating
one another...
A high Priestess was supposed to have
invoked help from the divine....
and a lone Stag wondered into the
city, as an answer from Mother Nature
herself......
Rather than eat it...
They decided to follow it.
(According to the Priestess)
The legend goes something like:
"The Wind whispered: Follow the Stag"
"Fire Crackled: Follow the Stag..."
"The Earth rumbled: Follow the Stag
"and Water burbled: Follow the Stag..."
And she knew in her "Spirit", They must follow the
Stag... and leave behind this Accursed City,
no matter how wonderful it was at it's peak...
And, lets see now, in "me best Gaelic accent"
Wouldn' 'at be de Legend as to why de True followers
of the Mudder escaped Enoch, before e'en de Flood
'O Noah...
Babylon "The 'ore" may 'ave fallen,
But, the faithful o'de Religion o' de Mudder
t'were redeemed by Mooder Nature, 'erself,
Now, twernt it ?"
Some legends place this event at the Fall of Babylon,
and others the Fall of Enoch. Evidence seems to
date it to around Enoch...
Placing a mark upon the Soles of their feet,
they began their Journey,
as it was written/(said back then]:
Deuteronomy 11:24
Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours:
from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates,
even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be.
Can you guess the Mark ?
Hint, the 5 elements...
Of course, this mark was found in Europe, along the Danube,
and became known as "DrudenFoss", in German, "witch" translates
to English as "Druids Foot" and was a sign of ill omen..
if you didn't clear off the Land -fast-...
in the middle ages, it was retranslated to
"Witches Foot"
Last hint, having the religion of the Mother in common
with Babylon, can you guess the Mark on the Gates of Babylon ?
Yup.
The same.
In The Darkness
Well, I am not exactly an artist...
:(
There is a little follow up, the Dead Sea
Scrolls, suggest that the "Giants"/
"Children of Enoch" began to have Dreams....
of things to come...
That an impending disaster was to
come, by "Fire, or by Water"....
"Gilgamesh" is even mentioned, in the
Dead Sea Scrolls of Qumran.....
Legend would have that the departed Priestess
was -=confirmed=-, when a Prophet named Noah....
Of the Father.....
Began to Prophesize....
Baird Stafford
> "Baird Stafford" <ba...@newstaff.com> wrote in message
> news:1fxkxbs.vwmzamu68m89N%ba...@newstaff.com...
<snip>
> > I have no earthly idea why Uriel (or Oriel, as the Name is spelt in the
> > GD) was not mentioned. Azrael is the name of the Angel of Death (not an
> > Archangel, AFAIK), which is why I called him a "Lord of the Great
> > Wheel."
> I yeah, now I can see why we weren't taught about Azrael. What aspect is
> attributed to Uriel?
Sorry - Uriel is the Archangel of the North, and therefore of Elemental
Earth.
>
> > Many Ceremonial magicians of my acquaintance regard the archangelic
> > Names as being, er, "scientific" formulae rather than being attached to
> > actual Entities.
> How did this happen and why? Or is that too detailed of a question to ask?
> Does the use of scientific formulae for archangelic names date back to the
> Book of Enoch that was mentioned in another post?
No to the last question: Magicians up through at least Dee and
*probably* the earlier incarnaitons of the Golden Dawn believed that the
Names were given to actual entities.
AFAIK - and Paul will have to correct me on this if I'm wrong - the view
of the Names as "formulae" probably originated at least in inspiration
with Aleister Crowley. I know from anecdotal evidence (read, "oral
history") that Israel Regardie was inclined to regard them in that
light, and my guess is that he got the notion from Crowley (Regardie
served as Crowley's secretary for a while, as a young man).
<snip>
> > A third resource that might be of interest is Donald Michael Kraig's
> > MODERN MAGICK (either edition).
> I have the last book you mentioned. I was really interested in the book at
> the bookstore, but when I got it home and I started reading it, it was all
> to complicated. Once I think magick has become too complicated and
> convoluted, I am not sure how effective it is. But, this is my opinion as I
> believe less is more.
That is not a view against which I am prepared to argue, except inasmuch
as even a great deal of "folk" Magic is very highly influenced by
notions that originated with QBLH. This is evidenced by the oldest
collections of folk Magic I've read: one can, in many of the spells,
see the influence of that Tradition. My experience suggests that
exploring the roots of things, no matter how superficially, frequently
leads to increased understanding of and proficiency in the subject.
Blessed be,
Baird
Ventana
Definitely will have to agree with you on your last sentence. I think
exploring those that have gone before us in general is a very enriching
experience from both the magickal to the mundane points of view. My problem
is that I have never had a strong desire to study history but find myself
wanting to do more the older I get. I guess I am starting to feel like part
of the human chain. :-) Still, I believe one can carry this to an extreme
so much so that they don't explore things that are written about in books
for themselves. I think that has been brought up before on this newsgroup
so I won't belabor the point. Thanks for your info above.
-V
'Thenie
news:vg9j0u6...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Leotine" <J...@Tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:u168gvgqka2p1qfr5...@4ax.com...
> > "'Thenie" <mtn-...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> I'll leave it to you to figure if there is any connection between the
> > >> sides of the Pyramid, Watchtowers, Elements, and Tools. And which
goes
> > >> with what or not !
> > I was playing that Kate Bush song yesterday...
> > Michael on my left
> > Uriel to my right
> > Raphael to my front
> > Gabriel just a bit to the left of Michael
> > Paddy behind
> > & etc
> >
> > from the right. Raphael, Micheal, Gabriel, then Uriel.
> > Azreal we don't let in.
> >
> >
she
> had a child recently. In regard to the lyrics to the song "Lily," I
highly
> suggest you purchase her video/dvd titled "Kate Bush: The Line, The Cross
> and The Curve." It is basically the video album based on her "Red Shoes"
> release. It has this song included and cameos the actual Lily, who, IIRC,
> is a psychic in England. In a high tech, computer-generated special
effects
> world, I truly appreciate Kate's theatrical style. She's a gem.
>
> -V
Heads up: I see my name, but not a one of my words. And I see words with no
attributions...
-'Thenie
Ventana
begin with. He was replying to all of his own text (and none of yours) in
that post. Funny how things can get so convoluted in these threads. :-)
-V
"'Thenie" <mtn-...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:4MgPa.776$B11...@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
Té Rowan
> For example, eating shellfish. If you were allergic
> to shellfish, like a lot of jewish descendants, you got
> G-ds judgment. (You died) Otherwise, you had merely risked it.
> (Of course, you cannot know -all- the reasons for Torah! ;)
This passage got me thinking about 'kosher' food. Am I right in assuming
that those foods either keep well or are made of materials that do?
Té Rowan (reyn...@mi.is)
Celtic
wrong though ;-)
Jenn
"Té Rowan" <reyn...@mi.is> wrote in message
news:000001c34ae6$08f95f80$0100a8c0@amaryllis...
-A.
To quote Epicurious.com, "Food that conforms to strict Jewish biblical laws pertaining not only to the type of food that may be eaten, but to the kinds of food that can be combined at one meal (for example, meat and dairy products may not be mixed). In order to meet kosher standards and receive the kosher seal, food must be prepared under a rabbi's supervision. In addition to the kinds of animals considered kosher (pigs and rabbits are among the nonkosher group), the laws also decree that animals be fed organically grown food and killed in the most humane manner possible. The word 'kosher' is a derivation of the Hebrew 'kasher' , meaning 'proper' or 'pure.' "
And, contrary to certain rumors, NO amount of blessings by a Rabbi can make something that is inherently unkosher (the term for such foods is "Traif", which explains the joke in "Robin Hood: Men in Tights").
Now where's my bacon-cheesburger with a side of shrimp bisque and beef ribs? ;)
Blessed Be,
-A.
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In The Darkness
> My uninformed mind tells me kosher is food that has been blessed. Could be
> wrong though ;-)
"Blessed" could be considered one attribute.
However, OT Torah laws have very strict lists of "Kosher"
requirements for food.
>>This passage got me thinking about 'kosher' food. Am I right in assuming
>>that those foods either keep well or are made of materials that do?
A Rabbi might say, "Who can know -=all=- the reasons for Torah!"
To your question, I say: Yup...
Interestingly, that appears to be -one- of them....
YMMV
In The Darkness
> Celtic wrote:
>>My uninformed mind tells me kosher is food that has been blessed. Could be
>>wrong though ;-)
>>
>>Jenn
>>"Té Rowan" <reyn...@mi.is> wrote in message
>>news:000001c34ae6$08f95f80$0100a8c0@amaryllis...
>>>Saith In The Darkness:
>>>
>>>> For example, eating shellfish. If you were allergic
>>>>to shellfish, like a lot of jewish descendants, you got
>>>>G-ds judgment. (You died) Otherwise, you had merely risked it.
>>>>(Of course, you cannot know -all- the reasons for Torah! ;)
>>>>
>>>This passage got me thinking about 'kosher' food. Am I right in assuming
>>>that those foods either keep well or are made of materials that do?
>>>
>>>Té Rowan (reyn...@mi.is)
>>
>>
> Lot more to it than that. The rules are set our in the Torah regarding
> what foods can and cannot be eaten. Shellfish, pork, and mixing milk
> with meat, for example are all forbidden under all circumstances. As is
> meat from one half of the cow (I forget which half).
Hindquarters. And, a story backing this precept, provides proof that
the Jewish religion believes that Dogs have souls...
They will greet you in the here-after if you eat non-kosher ,
angered, as you ate their portions.
It stemmed from a story that as the Jewish tribe escaped a
bad situation, it fed hind-quarters to the Dogs, to not bark,
and let them pass.....
Hence, the above story.
In some (most?)
> Kosher households, dairy and meat get seperate dishes so as there can be
> no chance for breaking the rules. Certain foods are Parve (translation
> unknown to me) and can be eaten with either dairy or meat as they
> contain neither meat nor dairy (E.g. fruits, veggies, certain types of
> margarine, etc).
Did you know following a strict vegetarian diet, is almost
guaranteed to be Kosher ?
> To quote Epicurious.com, "Food that conforms to strict Jewish biblical
> laws pertaining not only to the type of food that may be eaten, but to
> the kinds of food that can be combined at one meal (for example, meat
> and dairy products may not be mixed). In order to meet kosher standards
> and receive the kosher seal, food must be prepared under a rabbi's
> supervision. In addition to the kinds of animals considered kosher (pigs
> and rabbits are among the nonkosher group), the laws also decree that
> animals be fed organically grown food and killed in the most humane
> manner possible. The word 'kosher' is a derivation of the Hebrew
> 'kasher' , meaning 'proper' or 'pure.' "
>
> And, contrary to certain rumors, NO amount of blessings by a Rabbi can
> make something that is inherently unkosher (the term for such foods is
> "Traif", which explains the joke in "Robin Hood: Men in Tights").
Ahhh... You don't read much Sabatai Zevi, do you ?
;)
Shez
<reyn...@mi.is> writes
dietary restrictions on foods that are notoriously quick to go bad, and
which like shellfish can actually taste OK, and still be bad,
Pork if not properly cured, or cooked can cause huge problems, and
keeping it uncured, in a hot country was next to impossible, it goes off
very quickly.
Some dietary restrictions seem to be moral, like not cooking a calf in
its mothers milk..
--
Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
In The Darkness
> In article <000001c34ae6$08f95f80$0100a8c0@amaryllis>, Té Rowan
> <reyn...@mi.is> writes
>
> its mothers milk..
They say that one relates to "Hoof in Mouth" disease.... as well
as cruelty....
Leotine
>meat from one half of the cow (I forget which half).
Head (brain) and Heart - don't know if that's Jewish. Also didn't
Moses say blood was a no no - something about the life force.
Leotine