Night and day-dream

[Jahnu]

Is life just a day-dream it is possible to wake up from?

In the Vedas the material world is described as a dream . The souls
who are inhabiting this realm are under the influence of Krishna's
illusory potency, Maya devi. They are sleeping because they are not
awake to their real identity. Just as one forgets his real life during
a dream at night, we, who live in the material world, live in
ignorance of our real identity; thus we are considered to be asleep.
In other words, the "reality" to which we have become so accustomed is
a dream, and our spiritual existence, the one we have now forgotten -
our eternal existence in the spiritual realm - is the reality. The
question then is how do we distinguish between the two, and establish
reality on the one hand and illusion on the other? This has to be
clearly defined.

All of us have had the experience of a dream. While we are in the
dream, everything that goes on seems quite real. We go through the
same register of emotions and impressions as when we are awake. In a
dream we can experience misery or enjoyment in the same way we do
when awake . Anyone can testify to the fact that their dreams seem
real enough. . What, then, is it that makes a dream unreal and not
real? In the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna has given the answer to that
by pointing out that reality is that which exists without cessation,
that which continues and is everlasting. A dream, therefore, since it
has a beginning and an end, cannot be real. Real existence is
continuous.

"Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the
nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the
eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by
studying the nature of both." (Bg. 2.16)

In other words, the temporary doesn't really exist; only that which is
eternal exists. How can that be, we may ask. This computer I'm
writing on is a temporary thing - does that mean it doesn't really
exist? The answer is, yes. So how is it possible to resolve this
seeming anomaly, which furthermore contradicts our direct sensory
perception? Why doesn't my computer exist? Why doesn't my body exist,
or the world for that matter?

The answer lies in understanding the relative in relation to the
absolute or the temporary in relation to the eternal. In contrast to
eternal time our current temporary existence will always be fleeting
and insubstantial; it will be a short flash - like a dream. Even a
long dream like life will come to an end, and in the realm of eternity
our perceived lifespan of 60-80 years is such a miniscule glimpse in
the vastness of eternity that it doesn't even register. The same is
true of the computer I am writing on. Even if I left it sitting alone
on my desk and never touched it, in due course, it would be demolished
by time. It would be broken down into atoms and cease to exist.

However long that would take is immaterial. To us a thousand or a
million years may seem like a substantial amount of time but from the
point of view of, say, Lord Brahma, the first created living being in
the universe (who lives for the unfathomable length of time of 311.04
trillion years) surely my computer, the desk my computer sits on, as
well as the house that surrounds the desk, cannot be said to exist.
Before Lord Brahma even has time to finish his morning ablutions we
would have died and been born thousands of times

Lord Brahma's life span is the same as the life span of the universe
we live in. That is, he lives as long as the universe continues. So in
relation to Lord Brahma's perception of time our lives are so short
and insignificant that for all practical purposes they might as well
never have been. Similarly, in the eternal time of the spiritual realm
Lord Brahma and the universe we live in are as insignificant and non
existent as we are in relation to the universe. Krishna explains this
in the Bhagavad Gita:

"By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together form the
duration of Brahma's one day. And such also is the duration of his
night.

"At the beginning of Brahma's day, all living entities become manifest
from the unmanifest state, and thereafter, when the night falls, they
are merged into the unmanifest again.

"Again and again, when Brahma's day arrives, all living entities come
into being, and with the arrival of Brahma's night they are helplessly
annihilated.

"Yet there is another unmanifest nature, which is eternal and is
transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is
supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is
annihilated, that part remains as it is." (Bhagavad Gita 8.17-20)


Krishna states in this verse that there is an eternal realm of
existence beyond this manifested, temporary world. Here on this plane
all our experiences and activities are dreamlike because they will be
reduced to fleeting memories; then they will evaporate in time as if
they had never taken place. And finally we will go to sleep at death.
But on the spiritual plane we will possess a continuous experience of
eternality. We will have woken up to our real life.

That's why our present existence in a body that changes from childhood
to youth to old age, is unreal and dream-like. Our life in this
particular body has a beginning and an end, and for that reason it is
a dream. Our life is not unreal in the sense that it does not take
place. Obviously it does. If I bash my head against a wall it will
hurt, and that pain is real enough.

So the unreal factor about the body is not that it doesn't take place
but that it ends; it can never give us the satisfaction we crave, nor
fulfill its promise of the happiness we are always hoping for. That's
the real illusion of material life. One may consider his enjoyment in
the material world very substantial. What's wrong with enjoying?
What's wrong with seeking some happiness, one may ask? The answer is
that the pleasure of life always ends. That's what's wrong. Such
pleasure can never satisfy the self, because the self is eternal and
therefore hungers for lasting pleasure.

"An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery,
which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kunti,
such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does
not delight in them."
(Bhagavad Gita 5.22)

As we can see from Krishna's words here, not only can we not find
satisfaction in temporary pleasures, but the same pleasures will also
cause us suffering. Material happiness will always and without
exception be succeeded by misery. So because it is the constitutional
position of the soul to be eternal it cannot find satisfaction in an
atmosphere which is temporary. Life can never satisfy us no matter how
much sense gratification we engage in. It is exactly like in a dream.
We may experience some sense of happiness as we engage in pleasurable
activities, but we always have to wake up to the reality of misery and
lamentation. In a dream we wake up to our daily life, and in life we
wake up to disease, old age or death or some other calamity.

In life the activities we engage in become memories of the past, and
these memories are like dreams. All the good and bad experiences we
have been through in life are now just memories - fleeting and without
substance - like a dream we may have had. We forget them as if they
never happened. There is in essence no difference between a dream we
once had and an experience that actually happened to us. When an old
man sits outside the mall wearily eyeing up all the young girls
hurrying by, it is of little comfort to him to think about all the
pleasures he once had with women. Sometimes people say they have lived
a full life, they say they have nice memories to fall back on, but the
fact is that the memories of past pleasures are not enough to satisfy
us.

The memories of enjoyment we had in the past or hope to have in the
future cannot satisfy the deep longings for fulfillment that live in
our hearts .Our senses and mind can find some temporary relief in
relationships, or even in possessions, but then it is over. Even if we
love the same person faithfully throughout our whole life, and that
person loves us back, it cannot last-there is bound to be separation,
and then misery sets in. There is no way to avoid it: material life is
headed for lamentation. Krishna says:

"From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all
are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But
one who attains to My abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again."
(Bg. 8.16)

Now, if there weren't any alternative to such a material life,
existence would be bleak indeed, and many people, who have no
knowledge of the positive alternative of Krishna consciousness, find
the truth about the material world a depressing message. But just like
a dream denotes something real, so our temporary material life is
nothing but a distorted reflection of our real eternal life.

At the present moment our consciousness and mentality are covered by
the screen of material perception. That's why we think it is possible
to find happiness in the material world through the material body. The
soul has stepped outside its real environment of eternality and has
entered the temporary world of matter. Srila Prabhupada has compared
this to a fish being thrown on dry land. Because the fish is outside
its real element it cannot enjoy and it soon withers and dies. It
doesn't matter how much pleasure the fish is offered it will not be
able to enjoy it because it is out of its natural element. In the same
way we have to wither and die again and again, pathetically flapping
for a few inconsequential moments on the shores of time, and this
cycle will continue endlessly unless and until we wake up to our real
existence.

The reason we have come here to the material world is because we have
desired to imitate Krishna's position as the supreme enjoyer and
controller. Since Krishna is the real enjoyer and controller of all
existence it is not possible for us to usurp His position. Therefore,
because we wanted to, Krishna has kindly put us to sleep in material
life so that we can dream that we are the enjoyers and controllers.

The genuine spiritual process of Krishna consciousness helps the soul
sleeping in the lap of Maya to wake up to reality - the reality of
spiritual life. In reality we are eternally full of knowledge and
bliss but due to being asleep we cannot see that. Instead we try to
find happiness in our dreams: be they the pursuit of love, family,
success, wealth, or any number of temporary solutions. We seek
happiness outside of ourselves, when the happiness is there all the
time within the self. We are like a deer that runs to the desert to
find water, when it is standing right next to a brook of clear,
cooling water. The sages tell us that the solution to this pitiful
condition, the means to get out of this existential ignorance, is to
chant the Hare Krishna mantra. Therefore the members of the Hare
Krishna movement are very eager to get everyone to chant:

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

"The above mantra consisting of sixteen words and thirty two syllables
is the only means by which to counteract the evils of Kali-yuga. After
having searched through all the Vedas one will find no more sublime
form of religion."

(Kali-santarana Upanishad)






Have a look at my art -

http://youtu.be/K6y-GNCHgow - Buddha Bar
http://youtu.be/Ucvk5t2Inyk - Friction
http://youtu.be/sVUgoBaq71Q - I am your soul
http://youtu.be/2uRbsf9Vzg8 - Sudder street
http://youtu.be/DC5OHr-Pm4I - Jahnava
http://youtu.be/y9KqLPCWR1E - Krishnart

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu
http://www.facebook.com/groups/138462029613179/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq-n0bbhpaA - George
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5QIX5h8y1w&feature - TOVP

[Jahnu]

[Tim]

"Jahnu" <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ncimp8dl30ugpjj2r...@4ax.com...

>
> Is life just a day-dream it is possible to wake up from?
>
> In the Vedas the material world is described as a dream .

I describe you as being an asshole, my description fits, that of your book
of dogma does not.
<snipped shit>

[casey]

On 21 May, 03:19, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is life just a day-dream it is possible to wake up from?

We have no way of knowing. Making up a story behind
that common idea doesn't make it true. And if there is
more to reality than we can know making up stories
is not telling us anything real about that reality anymore
than the science fiction stories of Martians told us
anything real about Mars.


<snip made up story for brevity>

[raven1]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:19:01 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:


>Is life just a day-dream it is possible to wake up from?

Asks the permanent resident of Fantasy-land...

[kni...@baawa.com]

>"Jahnu" <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:ncimp8dl30ugpjj2r...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Is life just a day-dream it is possible to wake up from?
>>
>> In the Vedas the material world is described as a dream .

Is it just me? Is Jesper getting more insane with age?

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[Uncle Vic]

Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:ncimp8dl30ugpjj2r...@4ax.com:

> Is life just a day-dream it is possible to wake up from?
>
> In the Vedas the material world is described as a dream .

No, you're thinking of The Matrix.

--
Uncle Vic
aa# 2011
BAAWA

AA Quotemeister

Visit my You Tube Channel!
http://www.youtube.com/user/Vicman6311?feature=mhee

[Smiler]

Without having seen it for myself I wouldn't have thought it possible.

--
Smiler,

The godless one. a.a.# 2279

All gods are tailored to order. They're made to

exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 04:50:49 -0700 (PDT), casey
<jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>We have no way of knowing.

You don't, I have.

>aking up a story behind
>that common idea doesn't make it true.

That's why you live a lie.

>nd if there is
>more to reality than we can know making up stories
>is not telling us anything real about that reality anymore
>than the science fiction stories of Martians told us
>anything real about Mars.

Discoveries Show Early Mankind Was Advanced
by Brian Thomas, M.S.

Evolution holds that mankind emerged from �primitive� primates about
3.5 million years ago. Afterward, man continued to add habits and
features that distinguished him from his humble predecessors,
resulting fairly recently in what are considered modern humans.
However, new artifact finds have not corroborated this naturalistic
story.

Dr. Michael Petraglia of the University of Oxford led an investigation
into an ancient population site in India that had been buried under
volcanic debris. Beneath the ash, he discovered stone tools. A
university press release related that �according to the team a
potentially ground-breaking implication of the new work is that the
species responsible for making the stone tools in India was Homo
sapiens.�1

This finding contradicts the evolutionary molecular clock date of
mankind�s presence in India by �about 15,000 years.� But this is to be
expected, since different molecules �tick� at different rates, and
thus make poor clocks.2

In other news, unexpected evidence of symbolic thought, a uniquely
human attribute, was found in Western Cape, South Africa.
Cross-hatching patterns on bird eggs, decorated for use as carrying
baskets, were made during the middle Stone Age of that area, a
tradition that is now �a widespread modern practice.� The results,
published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences,
revealed that whoever made these markings had �social, cultural, and
cognitive underpinnings that overlap with those of modern people�
(emphasis added).3

And a discovery of ancient grain use has forced another detail of
�human evolution� to be refined. It was thought that cereals only
entered humans� diet after they evolved the abilities to roast,
grind, and cook grain, supposedly 20,000 years ago. But grain
grinding tools made of stone and estimated to be up to 100,000 years
old were found in Mozambique with �ample starchy residue,�4 suggesting
that a uniquely human diet existed far earlier than evolutionists had
supposed.

Anthropologist Julio Mercader found that �a large assemblage of
starch granules has been retrieved from the surfaces of Middle Stone
Age stone tools from Mozambique, showing that early Homo sapiens
relied on grass seeds starting at least 105,000 years ago, including
those of sorghum grasses.�5

All three of these finds are consistent with the biblical account, in
which mankind was specially created and then, a few thousand years
later, dispersed throughout the world from a point in the Middle East.
These migrating families would have had a relatively primitive
existence to begin with, but their fully human behaviors and
abilities are clearly reflected in the artifacts they left behind.6
References 1.

New evidence shows populations survived the Toba super-eruption 74,000
years ago. University of Oxford press release, February 22, 2010.

2. Thomas, B. Frozen Penguin DNA Casts Doubt on DNA-Based Dates. ICR
News. Posted on icr.org November 25, 2009, accessed March 4, 2010.

3. Texier, P-J. et al. 2010. A Howiesons Poort tradition of engraving
ostrich eggshell containers dated to 60,000 years ago at Diepkloof
Rock Shelter, South Africa. Proceedings of the National Academy of
Sciences. Published online before print March 1, 2010.

4. Willyard, C. Pass the Sorghum, Caveman. Science Now. Posted on
sciencemag.org December 17, 2009, accessed March 4, 2010, reporting on
a study published in Mercader, J. 2009. Mozambican Grass Seed
Consumption During the Middle Stone Age. Science. 326 (5960):
1680-1683.

5. Mercader, J. Mozambican Grass Seed Consumption During the Middle
Stone Age. Science. 326 (5960): 1680.

6. Thomas, B. Boats and Jewelry: �Stone Age� People Were Surprisingly
Modern. ICR News. Posted on icr.org January 25, 2010, accessed March
5, 2010.

[Zerkon]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:20:40 +0200, Jahnu wrote:

> Is life just a day-dream it is possible to wake up from?

Please give an specific example of life.

Lame attempt to justify all the butter he stole.

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:17:24 +0000 (UTC), Zerkon <Zer...@Z.Zorg>
wrote:

>Please give an specific example of life.

Birth, death, old age and disease and in between some
sense-gratification.

>Lame attempt to justify all the butter he stole.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5863342250068962658

[Ken]

Mike Duffy asked Jahnuts: Did you have experiences with psychedelic
drugs at that time?

He replied: "I did.I hung out with the
freaks :) I guess, because it was the midwest, they called hippies
freaks :)
Apart from that, psychedelic drugs naturally give experiences of what
seem to be other dimensions

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 10:49:51 -0700 (PDT), Ken <flak...@aol.com>
wrote:

>Apart from that, psychedelic drugs naturally give experiences of what

>seem to be other dimensions, but I prefer alcohol, it makes your brain
>numb, and I like that.

One attains the human form of life after transmigrating through
8,400,000 species by the process of gradual evolution. That human life
is spoiled for those conceited fools who do not take shelter of the
lotus feet of Govinda.

--Brahma-vaivarta Purana