Questions about degree's
RevJimS
In article <322a0446...@nntp.netcruiser>, Rev...@juno.com (Rev. Obe)
writes:
>
>Rev. Jim,
>
>Could you elaborate on how Ohio views the ULC degrees ?
>
>Thanks
The state of Ohio accepts ad recognizes the Doctorate in Biblical Studies
and the Doctorate in Common Law as fully accredited degrees.
Rev. James M. Sutter, D.D. D.B.
Ambassador, Universal Life Church
Cleveland, Ohio USA
K. Winston Caine
This is my final contribution to this thread. I will respond to a number of
comments here.
1. The Universal Life Church is a church, not a school. Its programs and
certificates are not accredited by any legitimate accrediting agency of
post-secondary schools and universities.
Want proof? Call The Department of Education, Division of Eligibility and
Agency Evaluation, Bureau of Postsecondary Education, Washington D.C.
20202, (202) 245-9875 and ask. Or call The Commission on Recognition of
Postsecondary Accreditors, One Dupont Circle NW, Ste. 305, Washington
D.C., (202) 452-1433. These are the official agencies that oversee college
and university accreditation. They--and the legitimate accrediting agencies
they oversee--publish lists of all accredited higher learning institutions that
offer degrees such as Ph.D.s. The Universal Life Church is on no such list.
2. The State of California does not accredit schools nor churches. Neither
does any other state. Accreditation is done by private organizations. The only
legitimate accreditors are those approved by the two overseers cited in item
1.
3. The burden of proof always llies with anyone presenting questionable
credentials, not with the person questioning them.
4. If you really believe the State of Ohio personnel department views the
doctoral degrees issued by ULC as fully accredited, call them. Ask: "Is a
Ph.D. issued by the Universal Life Church--mailed to anyone who sends in
$100 and answers 20 or so true/false questions--recognized as the equivalent
of a Ph.D. from an accredited university?"
As far as that goes, call the personnel department at any Fortune 500
Corporation or the admissions department at any state college and ask the
same thing.
5. I offered the first response several days ago simply to stop someone from
getting themselves into trouble--which is about all you can do if you go around
claiming that you hold a fully accredited doctorate from the ULC. Don't do it
if you care about your credibility. ULC degrees are not academic degrees and
will not withstand investigation if scrutinized by an employer or licensing
agency or any accredited school you might apply to.
6. I've worked as a reporter since 1970. I published my first investigative
piece about education alternatives and about diploma mills in 1977. I regret
that I once wrote in a book that if you just want to call yourself doctor, send
$100 to the ULC and they'll mail you a Ph.D. I found out very quickly that
most of the respectable world does not consider that acceptable. So I
dropped the line. And I'm telling you why and I've told you how to check out
what I've told you. You will not earn any real respect, and run the risk of
ridicule and disgrace in the real world if you ask people to call you doctor
based on a credential issued by the ULC.
Good luck, everybody.
Winston
-----------------------------------------------------------
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RevJimS
In article <50hv7p$h...@news.enter.net>, positiv...@enter.net (K.
Winston Caine) writes:
>
>4. If you really believe the State of Ohio personnel department views the
>doctoral degrees issued by ULC as fully accredited, call them. Ask: "Is a
>Ph.D. issued by the Universal Life Church--mailed to anyone who sends in
>$100 and answers 20 or so true/false questions--recognized as the
equivalent
>of a Ph.D. from an accredited university?"
You misunderstand my response. You were assuming that the State of Ohio
does not recognize, nor evr will recognize, ULC degrees. My response was
to the effect of: Who made you Director of Personnel for the State of
Ohio, and who made you all powerful to see into what Ohio will do in the
future ? For your information, when I applied for my Ohio license, I had
to present my ordination certificate and degree from ULC, and it is upon
those documents that the State of Ohio, operating under Ohio Revised Code,
granted me a minister's license.
>5. I offered the first response several days ago simply to stop someone
from
>getting themselves into trouble--which is about all you can do if you go
>around
>claiming that you hold a fully accredited doctorate from the ULC. Don't
do it
>if you care about your credibility. ULC degrees are not academic degrees
and
>will not withstand investigation if scrutinized by an employer or
licensing
>agency or any accredited school you might apply to.
Once again, who are you to question whether ULC degrees will be accepted
by a particular college or corporation. If you were a ULC minister, you
would know that the education, ordination and degrees from ULC are for the
purpose of carrying on Jesus Christ's mission on Earth, spreading the Word
of God and offering salvation to everyone. I seem to remember reading
that about 2030 years ago, Jesus worked to spread the Word of God and
offering salvation to everyone. And what degree did Jesus have ??? Oh,
that's right, you implied someone without a "properly accredited degree"
couldn't do this job. Sorry, Jesus, Mr. Caine says you cannot do your job
here, you'll just have to leave.
>
>6. I've worked as a reporter since 1970. I published my first
investigative
>piece about education alternatives and about diploma mills in 1977. I
regret
>that I once wrote in a book that if you just want to call yourself
doctor,
>send $100 to the ULC and they'll mail you a Ph.D. I found out very
quickly that
>most of the respectable world does not consider that acceptable. So I
>dropped the line. And I'm telling you why and I've told you how to check
out
>what I've told you. You will not earn any real respect, and run the risk
of
>ridicule and disgrace in the real world if you ask people to call you
doctor
>based on a credential issued by the ULC.
>
>
Did your investigative reporting also show that ULC has over 20 million
members worldwide, and over 70,000 ordained ministers, many of whom work
as missionaries, hospital or prison chaplains, running food kitchens,
counseling services, Bible Class, worship services, and other forms of
spreading God's Word by example and teaching ?
Good luck, everybody.
>
Positive Church Online
>http://www.enter.net/~positivechurch
>
Or could it just be that you are from a "competing" church, and jealous of
the success of ULC ?
Do yourself a favor. Ask for God's forgiveness for criticising the
thousands of Christians who are carrying on His work, and ask God to open
your eyes and heart to the real ministry He wants us to perform.
Gary Swing
Surely if you were a ULC minister, you would know that the ULC is not
limited solely to those with Christian beliefs, but is a church devoted
to freedom of religion. Some of us ULC minister types might prefer to
direct our reverence towards Ben and Jerry's ice cream rather than this
Jesus guy who wants to send everybody to hell. :-)
Rev. Gary Swing, D.D.
Ambassador and Saint, Universal Life Church
Denver, CO USA
Mountaineering minister available to perform freethought, nontheistic
wedding services atop Colorado's 200 highest summits. Will
RevJimS
In article <50r9ea$d...@carbon.cudenver.edu>, gws...@ouray.cudenver.edu
(Gary Swing) writes:
>
>Surely if you were a ULC minister, you would know that the ULC is not
>limited solely to those with Christian beliefs, but is a church devoted
>to freedom of religion. Some of us ULC minister types might prefer to
>direct our reverence towards Ben and Jerry's ice cream rather than this
>Jesus guy who wants to send everybody to hell. :-)
>
>
>>>
Gary: You are right, I should have mentioned that ULC ministers encompass
many faiths, not just Christianity. However, your assumption that "this
Jesus guy who wants to send everybody to hell" is not quite accurate.
Jesus came to us and gave His life as penance for all mankind's sins, so
that we may be guaranteed a place in Heaven, not in Hell. And yes, at
times I worship Ben & Jerry's, too, that's probably why I'm overweight
:>)
Rev Jim Sutter
>
>>>
>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>Rev. Gary Swing, D.D.
>Ambassador and Saint, Universal Life Church
>Denver, CO USA
>
>Mountaineering minister available to perform freethought, nontheistic
>wedding services atop Colorado's 200 highest summits. Will
>
>------------------- Headers --------------------
>Path: newsbf05.news.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!news-e2a.gnn.com
Paxil
>Surely if you were a ULC minister, you would know that the ULC is not
>limited solely to those with Christian beliefs, but is a church devoted
>to freedom of religion. Some of us ULC minister types might prefer to
>direct our reverence towards Ben and Jerry's ice cream rather than this
>Jesus guy who wants to send everybody to hell. :-)
And that's just us human ULC ministers. There are dogs, cats, and I'm
sure other animals ordained as well. Who knows, the faith of kibble
perhaps? :)
Paxil
rev...@aol.com (RevJimS) wrote:
>You misunderstand my response. You were assuming that the State of Ohio
>does not recognize, nor evr will recognize, ULC degrees. My response was
>to the effect of: Who made you Director of Personnel for the State of
>Ohio, and who made you all powerful to see into what Ohio will do in the
>future ? For your information, when I applied for my Ohio license, I had
>to present my ordination certificate and degree from ULC, and it is upon
>those documents that the State of Ohio, operating under Ohio Revised Code,
>granted me a minister's license.
There is a tremendous difference between using ULC credentials for a
minister's license, and for a job.
>Once again, who are you to question whether ULC degrees will be accepted
>by a particular college or corporation. If you were a ULC minister, you
>would know that the education, ordination and degrees from ULC are for the
>purpose of carrying on Jesus Christ's mission on Earth, spreading the Word
>of God and offering salvation to everyone. I seem to remember reading
>that about 2030 years ago, Jesus worked to spread the Word of God and
>offering salvation to everyone. And what degree did Jesus have ??? Oh,
>that's right, you implied someone without a "properly accredited degree"
>couldn't do this job. Sorry, Jesus, Mr. Caine says you cannot do your job
>here, you'll just have to leave.
If you are a ULC minister, you would know that the ULC is NOT a
Christian church, and that the ordination etc is NOT for the purpose
of carrying on Jesus Christ's mission, or any other specific religion.
A ULC minister is free to preach any religion, or none at all.
>Did your investigative reporting also show that ULC has over 20 million
>members worldwide, and over 70,000 ordained ministers, many of whom work
>as missionaries, hospital or prison chaplains, running food kitchens,
>counseling services, Bible Class, worship services, and other forms of
>spreading God's Word by example and teaching ?
So? This has nothing to do with the validity of a ULC degree.
RogerLH605
I have found that the ULC DD degree is solely honorary, and not
accredited, and ULC has never claimed that this degree was accredited. It
is solely a religious degree based on one's personal religious beliefs
(and life's experience). It is as good as the person, themself.
Fraud is misrepressenting something. If we tell it like it is, then we do
not commit fraud. Incidently, I have found that alot of people could care
less about accreditation (I've been doing alot of thinking of what this
really means). However, I do understand where this comes in to play as far
as employment comes in. If we don't misrepresent this degree, than we do
not defraud anyone.
The point is that we need to consider what these degrees truly mean. I am
doing just that.
Roger L. Hanger "honorary" D.D.
casra
On 9 Sep 1996, RogerLH605 wrote:
> I have found that the ULC DD degree is solely honorary, and not
> accredited, and ULC has never claimed that this degree was accredited. It
> is solely a religious degree based on one's personal religious beliefs
> (and life's experience). >
Actually, several degree's the ULC offers ARE in fact accredited by the
International Accredation Association. Nowhere do they say that the
Masters degree in Religion is honorary.
I plan to use the Masters degree towards my career.
Anyone, IMHO, who takes the time to become ordained the normal way as
opposed to using the ULC is just buying into the idea that they have to
spend their valuable time and money when they don't have to.
I am proud that I don't have a high school diploma yet work in a technical
field. I taught myself. A degree doesn't mean you have a mind, it only
means you spent money, showed up to class, and answered questons the way
they wanted you to. They dangle the carrot of a good job but only if you
do what they tell you, how they tell you, and most important give them the
money they tell you to.
This is insanity!
Education should never be a business. It should be a right.
Reprinted from the ULC website.
Degrees Offered by ULC
Doctor of Metaphysics. The church offers a course in
Metaphysics. It is a doctrine of the invisible within the physical. This
course is available
for a donation of $20.00.
Doctor of Divinity. This degree is accredited by the
International Accrediting Association. To receive this degree, we ask for
a free-will
offering of $20.00.
Doctor of Religious Humanities. This course is in American
Church Law and Parliamentary Procedure. This course is available for a
free-will offering of $40.00.
Bible Studies Course. This course is comprised of 30 lessons.
This is a very comprehensive study of the Bible, with all references made
to the
K.J.V. Upon completion of the course, a Doctor of Biblical
Studies degree is awarded for a free-will offering of $25.00.
Doctor of Religious Science. This course is concerned with
motivational meditation, and helps you focus your powers of concentration
and
self control. This valuable knowledge is available for a
free-will offering of $35.00.
Doctor of Motivation. This course deals with self-reliance and
is designed to increase your confidence and capabilities. Upon successful
completion of this course, 75% or higher on the final exam, you
will be qualified to teach and conduct seminars on this subject. This
course is
available for an offering of $20.00.
Doctor of Universal Life. This course deals with the
relationship of Church and State over the past 6,000 years. This course
covers the
origins of western religion as well as the conflicts between the
ULC and the United States government. It's yours for a free-will offering
of
$20.00.
Doctor of Immortality This study gives one a better
understanding of their own make-up and potential and is based on the book
"A New
Life--Do You Want It?" This degree is awarded upon successful
completion, 75% or higher on the final exam, and is available for a
minimum
offering of $25.00.
Masters Degree in Religion. This is a wonderful course and it is
also an accredited degree by the International Accrediting Association.
Find
out what Reverend Hensley believes about religion. If you wish
to enhance your mind, send a free-will offering of $45.00 to U.L.C.
headquarters. We will send you the book called "Man and World."
Study it very carefully. Answer the questions on the back page. If you get
75% correct on the exam, we will grant you a Masters Degree in
Religion.
Doctor of Philosophy in Religion. We offer a Ph.D. in religion.
This course is available for a free-will offering of $100.00. Take this
course,
answer 75% of the questions correctly and we will grant you a
Ph.D. in religion. People around the world have this degree.
S.O.U.L. Clinic Course. The science of understanding life, SOUL
Clinic course is a course in psychology. This course deals with resources
from many fields. This course does not entitle you to be a state
certified psychologist. It qualifies you as a psychological counselor.
This course
consists of 12 lessons and two textbooks. A SOUL Clinic License
is issued upon completion of the course. This interesting course is a must
for
every active minister and is available for a free-will offering
of $100.00.
Common Law Course. We offer a wonderful course in Common Law.
This complete course has a total of 24 courses contained in 19 books.
It takes about a year to complete the course. This course is
fantastic. We feel so inspired in the coming year that we have cut the
price from
$495.00 to $295.00. If you would like to take this course, you
can receive it immediately in two payments of $150.00 each, or you can
send
the full amount. Send first payment and we will send you the
course. When you have finished the course and completed the answers, send
the
second payment along with your answers back to us. If you pass
the course, we will send you a beautiful certificate, giving you the
degree of
Doctorate of Common Law. You are admitted to the Universal Bar
Association. This will help you in dealing with any kind of law in the
courtroom. It helps you to write briefs and teaches you what
your rights are, and how to help others.
Rev. Mark
Gary Swing
In article <Pine.SUN.3.95.96090...@ren.us.itd.umich.edu> casra <ca...@umich.edu> writes:
>On 9 Sep 1996, RogerLH605 wrote:
>
>> I have found that the ULC DD degree is solely honorary, and not
>> accredited, and ULC has never claimed that this degree was accredited. It
>> is solely a religious degree based on one's personal religious beliefs
>> (and life's experience). >
>
>
>Actually, several degree's the ULC offers ARE in fact accredited by the
>International Accredation Association. Nowhere do they say that the
>Masters degree in Religion is honorary.
It is my understanding that the International Accrediting Association
is just another project of the Universal Life Church; hence, the church
accredits itself. Please correct me if I am wrong. A degree is only
valued for academics or employment purposes if accredited by a respected
accrediting association. Aside from the honorary Doctor of Divinity, I
wouldn't put any stock in ULC degrees for any purpose other than
entertainment value.
Rev. Gary Swing, D.D.
Ambassador and Saint of the Universal Life Church
Mountaineering minister available for freethought, non-theistic wedding
RevJimS
In article <51055v$8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, roger...@aol.com
(RogerLH605) writes:
>
>I have found that the ULC DD degree is solely honorary, and not
>accredited, and ULC has never claimed that this degree was accredited. It
>is solely a religious degree based on one's personal religious beliefs
>(and life's experience). It is as good as the person, themself.
>
>Fraud is misrepressenting something. If we tell it like it is, then we do
>not commit fraud. Incidently, I have found that alot of people could
care
>less about accreditation (I've been doing alot of thinking of what this
>really means). However, I do understand where this comes in to play as
far
>as employment comes in. If we don't misrepresent this degree, than we do
>not defraud anyone.
>The point is that we need to consider what these degrees truly mean. I am
>doing just that.
You are entirely correct, the DD degree is an honorary degree. However,
the Doctorate in Biblical Studies and Doctorate in Common Law are
identified by ULC as accredited degrees.
mstr...@ix.netcom.com
pa...@interlog.com (Paxil) wrote:
>>Surely if you were a ULC minister, you would know that the ULC is not
>>limited solely to those with Christian beliefs, but is a church devoted
>>to freedom of religion. Some of us ULC minister types might prefer to
>>direct our reverence towards Ben and Jerry's ice cream rather than this
>>Jesus guy who wants to send everybody to hell. :-)
>And that's just us human ULC ministers. There are dogs, cats, and I'm
>sure other animals ordained as well. Who knows, the faith of kibble
>perhaps? :)
Get your facts right, "This Guy" is not here to send all too hell.
Personally I dispise your views. However I am forever greatfull we can
all express our views.
In HIS service,
Pastor Dave
casra
The last post said one person believed jesus is sending us to hell.
The other said to check the facts.
Facts in faith? Where did this come from?
What possible facts exist about jesus? They are only beliefs and opinions.
Believe what you want, But, don't call it a fact.
Rev. Mark
RogerLH605
Rev. Jim:
Do you know who the International Accreditors are? I truly want to know.
I agree with the post prior to yours, as to the "jumping through hoops"
aspect.
Harvard, and most major Universities are part of the "system" which the
rich have set up, and manipulate for their own purposes. They have set
their own group of people up who say " you did it our way, therefore, ..."
to those "good doggies" they create.
Never-the-less, I'd like to know who the accreditors for ULC are.
Gary Swing
In article <515k89$g...@ns2.borg.com> mstr...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>pa...@interlog.com (Paxil) wrote:
>
>
>>>Surely if you were a ULC minister, you would know that the ULC is not
>>>limited solely to those with Christian beliefs, but is a church devoted
>>>to freedom of religion. Some of us ULC minister types might prefer to
>>>direct our reverence towards Ben and Jerry's ice cream rather than this
>>>Jesus guy who wants to send everybody to hell. :-)
>
>>sure other animals ordained as well. Who knows, the faith of kibble
>>perhaps? :)
>
>Get your facts right, "This Guy" is not here to send all too hell.
>Personally I dispise your views. However I am forever greatfull we can
>all express our views.
Personally, I find Christian mythology to be a morally reprehensible
doctrine, but I support your right to express your views, however
misguided and evil, so long as you do not violate the rights of others.
Gary
Ben Lytz
Living in Europe, where the university world is taken seriously, I do
know that degrees granteed by the ULC is worth *nothing*. I do not know
how you there in the USA think, but I hope that you are not so childish
that you could think about yourselfs as a doctor, if you have the DD from
the ULC.
Myself a Doctor of dental surgery
Ben Lytz von Zugesbucht
=======================================================
BEN LYTZ Tammisaari, FINLAND http://www.inet.fi/koti/lytzbe-1.html