Neanderthal genes?
GENE DOUGLAS
A debate continues as to whether Neanderthals competed and were killed out
by Cro-Magnons around 50,000 years ago, or whether they interbred and
disappeared in that way. Recently, paleontologists believe they have found
Neanderthal hybrids at least 10,000 years since the Neanderthal died out.
Now, Neanderthal bones have been analyzed, and found to be dissimilar to
modern man, where DNA is concerned, suggesting that there was no
interbreeding. Other scientists say that evolution of DNA could have
happened more rapidly that is commonly supposed.
Of course, this debate could be a racist's heaven. Is it possible that
Cro-Magnon was superior to us, and that we would be a lot smarter had they
not fooled around with Neanderthal chicks? Just playing the devil's
advocate, many Asians, such as Chinese and Japanese, score higher on IQ
tests than caucasians. And there were no Neanderthal in Asia. Could it be
that Chinese are pure Cro-Magnon, while Europeans are hybrids?
Spammer bait: postm...@prodigy.net postm...@compuserve.com
postm...@aol.com
--
Portal to un-mod UU group at: http://www.deja.com/~soc_religion_uu/
Remember: (current list) Rich Puchalski / Richard Kulisz / --------- /
(Your name here)
New Un-Moderated group at alt.religion.unitarian-univ, or use URL to
go there.
-
"I quoted Rich Puchalski."
--
To err is human, to forgive... unlikely.
--
"Justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by
crime feel as indignant as those who are." - King Solomon
--
Man must exist in a state of balance between risk and safety.
Pure risk leads to self-destruction. Pure safety leads to stagnation.
In between lies survival and progress.
--
You know, you could have been prevented for a quarter.
--
Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you...
--
DEATH to all fanatics.
--
sarah clark
GENE DOUGLAS
Good reading. But it barely addresses the question of whether H.
Neanderthal interbred with H. Sapeins, or if they were killed off in some
manner. Is it possible that we are inferior to Cro Magnon man, because of
our Neanderthal grandparents? And if so, why don't I look like Arnold
Schwartzenegger? (Hmm. He does have a brow ridge, doesn't he?)
sarah clark wrote in message <38EFD87E...@hal-pc.org>...
Val Harrop
My understanding of what the DNA sequencing
is saying is that Neanderthal is NOT on the
same evolutionary branch as humans. So if there
was interbreeding, there would be no progeny.
the neanderthal branch just terminates.
so, no neanderthal grandparents!
and, with regard to "inferior", i find it to be a
bit of a misnomer. Unicellular life is far more
plentiful on earth than multicellular; are humans,
then, "inferior" to bacteria, since bacteria are more
successful, and cockroaches for that matter.
I personally resist attempts to assign value to
different types of life, since this is actually a
quite common creationist tactic, they make
statements like "evolution is racist" thus it is
wrong....
anyway here is a good reference for phylogenetic
trees.
GENE DOUGLAS
The current study seems to be saying that H. Nean. DNA is so different from
that of modern humans, that if we were descended from them, we would have
more similarity than we do. However, other scientists are saying that they
may have understimated the rate at which DNA can change, and that H. Nean.
DNA might have evolved beyond recognition in a few tens of millenia, anyway.
As to inferiority, I am assuming that we value certain characteristics, and
that even if the gorilla had great survivability, we would not envy his
place in the world. If we value the ability to become philosophers, build
spaceships, and invent better dildoes, then certain qualities would be
considered superior for those purposes.
Val Harrop wrote in message <8cqu07$17nk$1...@news.hal-pc.org>...
>Gene:
>
>My understanding of what the DNA sequencing
>is saying is that Neanderthal is NOT on the
>same evolutionary branch as humans. So if there
>was interbreeding, there would be no progeny.
>
>the neanderthal branch just terminates.
>
>so, no neanderthal grandparents!
>
The question is, why did it terminate? Were they simply bred out? Keep in
mind that some scientists believe they have found skeletons of H. Nean.
hybrids 10,000 years after H. Nean. extinction.
>and, with regard to "inferior", i find it to be a
>bit of a misnomer. Unicellular life is far more
>plentiful on earth than multicellular; are humans,
>then, "inferior" to bacteria, since bacteria are more
>successful, and cockroaches for that matter.
>
>I personally resist attempts to assign value to
>different types of life, since this is actually a
>quite common creationist tactic, they make
>statements like "evolution is racist" thus it is
>wrong....
>
>anyway here is a good reference for phylogenetic
>trees.
>
>http://phylogeny.arizona.edu/tree/phylogeny.html
sarah clark
GENE DOUGLAS wrote:
> The current study seems to be saying that H. Nean. DNA is so different from
> that of modern humans, that if we were descended from them, we would have
> more similarity than we do. However, other scientists are saying that they
> may have understimated the rate at which DNA can change, and that H. Nean.
> DNA might have evolved beyond recognition in a few tens of millenia, anyway.
firstly, that was me, gene, posting from my mother's account.
there is a discussion going on about this in talk.origins.
the title of the discussion is Re: Neanderthal+Cro Magnon
it appears to be cross-posted into alt.religion.jehovahs-witn,
if you want to read it on a less-trafficed group.
it appears from a recent post it is a toss-up; basically,
we don't know either way. but it should not matter.
since as a species, humans are tremendously homogenous
in comparison with other species. there is not a lot of
biological basis to state that there are significant differences
among humans based on race. this we discussed also in t.o.
in a thread named "the racist roots of evolution" try author
herb huston. i would do the search for you but i am afraid
the link would be broken if i posted it. herb, apparantly,
works with apes, or has an interest in them. in addition,
apparantly, many "human" values are shared with the
other great apes.
> As to inferiority, I am assuming that we value certain characteristics, and
> that even if the gorilla had great survivability, we would not envy his
> place in the world. If we value the ability to become philosophers, build
> spaceships, and invent better dildoes, then certain qualities would be
> considered superior for those purposes.
agree, mostly, with this... i have been involved in a
number of threads lately about the jewish race with
basically anti-semetic folks and am somewhat senstitive
to the issue right now.
additionally, i listen to the christian
radio and am highly disturbed by the assertions they make
wrt theory of evolution and the pantheistic atheistic left-wing
conspiracy. to me, they have settled upon an area of
tremendous ignorance among the us population in an attempt
to introduce religion into the schools, (since book-burning didnt
work, lets try science!!!)
<snipping the previous post>
GENE DOUGLAS
sarah clark wrote in message <39021FE...@hal-pc.org>...
>
>
>GENE DOUGLAS wrote:
>
>> The current study seems to be saying that H. Nean. DNA is so different
from
>> that of modern humans, that if we were descended from them, we would
have
>> more similarity than we do. However, other scientists are saying that
they
>> may have understimated the rate at which DNA can change, and that H.
Nean.
>> DNA might have evolved beyond recognition in a few tens of millenia,
anyway.
cut
>
>it appears from a recent post it is a toss-up; basically,
>we don't know either way. but it should not matter.
>since as a species, humans are tremendously homogenous
>in comparison with other species. there is not a lot of
>biological basis to state that there are significant differences
>among humans based on race.
cut
In comparison with say, the lion or the mountain gorilla, we have greater
variability. However, this may be irrelevant as to whether Cro Magnon
corrupted my genes by dallying with some Neandertal chick. At least I
could have been left with a bodybuilder's physique for his trouble.
Considering that they had no H. Nean. in China, and considering that Chinese
score higher on IQ tests than caucasians, could it be that Chinese are pure
Cro Magnon and we are not? The current theory of course, is that the
difference is cultural.
As the Chinese guy who installed my telephone said, he was married to a
white woman, and his kids just play Nintendo all the time. "They're smart
like me, but lazy like their mother." So does that settle anyting?
>
>> As to inferiority, I am assuming that we value certain characteristics,
and
>> that even if the gorilla had great survivability, we would not envy his
>> place in the world. If we value the ability to become philosophers,
build
>> spaceships, and invent better dildoes, then certain qualities would be
>> considered superior for those purposes.
>
>agree, mostly, with this... i have been involved in a
>number of threads lately about the jewish race with
>basically anti-semetic folks and am somewhat senstitive
>to the issue right now.
>
So, if fundamentalists had been the ones demolished in the holocaust, and
Jews were preaching extreme Zionism, would Pat Robertson be the one you feel
sorry for, and Jews the ones you resent?
>additionally, i listen to the christian
>radio and am highly disturbed by the assertions they make
>wrt theory of evolution and the pantheistic atheistic left-wing
>conspiracy. to me, they have settled upon an area of
>tremendous ignorance among the us population in an attempt
>to introduce religion into the schools, (since book-burning didnt
>work, lets try science!!!)
Of course, this can be expected. If they are convinced that something is
absolutely true, and absolutely vital, then anybody who comes along and
threatens to change that is indeed a threat. And anybody in need of a topic
to charge up a sympathetic crowd, has one, ready-made and guaranteed to
please.
>
><snipping the previous post>
>
sarah clark
GENE DOUGLAS wrote:
> sarah clark wrote in message <39021FE...@hal-pc.org>...
<snip>
> cut
>
> In comparison with say, the lion or the mountain gorilla, we have greater
> variability. However, this may be irrelevant as to whether Cro Magnon
> corrupted my genes by dallying with some Neandertal chick. At least I
> could have been left with a bodybuilder's physique for his trouble.
i guess i am having trouble seeing
why you would consider it a corruption.
> Considering that they had no H. Nean. in China, and considering that Chinese
> score higher on IQ tests than caucasians, could it be that Chinese are pure
> Cro Magnon and we are not? The current theory of course, is that the
> difference is cultural.
>
> As the Chinese guy who installed my telephone said, he was married to a
> white woman, and his kids just play Nintendo all the time. "They're smart
> like me, but lazy like their mother." So does that settle anyting?
that could show cultural bias too - or it could have been
a joke.
> >> As to inferiority, I am assuming that we value certain characteristics,
> and
> >> that even if the gorilla had great survivability, we would not envy his
> >> place in the world. If we value the ability to become philosophers,
> build
> >> spaceships, and invent better dildoes, then certain qualities would be
> >> considered superior for those purposes.
> >
> >agree, mostly, with this... i have been involved in a
> >number of threads lately about the jewish race with
> >basically anti-semetic folks and am somewhat senstitive
> >to the issue right now.
> >
> So, if fundamentalists had been the ones demolished in the holocaust, and
> Jews were preaching extreme Zionism, would Pat Robertson be the one you feel
> sorry for, and Jews the ones you resent?
well, they are christian identity people, i don't really
see them in the same category as the fundamentalists.
i get along not bad with the fundamentalists.
<snip>
agree.