How the United States Marine Corps Differs from Cults
Tilman Hausherr
Two anonymous cult apologists, "Bernie" and "Wizard", claimed that by
the definition of a cult, an army would be one. Although I think I
debunked this "argument", here the same is done by experts:
How the United States Marine Corps Differs from Cults
http://www.rickross.com/reference2/brainwashing2.html
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
lasz...@computron.net
In article <352318d3...@news.snafu.de>,
til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>
> Two anonymous cult apologists, "Bernie" and "Wizard", claimed that by
> the definition of a cult, an army would be one. Although I think I
> debunked this "argument", here the same is done by experts:
>
> How the United States Marine Corps Differs from Cults
> http://www.rickross.com/reference2/brainwashing2.html
Just remember that the author of the articel is Margaret Singer and her
"theory" on brainwashing is the core subject of the article. The APA stated
that they do not consider her research in this area to be scientifically
sound.
I would also question her state of mind to be sound, but that's another
discussion.
Tillman is at his best, regurgiating stuff that was not digestable in the
first place. After a while it REALLY gets
boooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiing.
>
> --
> Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
Laszlo Z. Weress
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Tilman Hausherr
>> How the United States Marine Corps Differs from Cults
>> http://www.rickross.com/reference2/brainwashing2.html
>
>Just remember that the author of the articel is Margaret Singer and her
>"theory" on brainwashing is the core subject of the article. The APA stated
>that they do not consider her research in this area to be scientifically
>sound.
This doesn't matter - the point is that cult apologist said that the
cult definition would apply to the army, and here I show that this
author has examined this topic.
Now tell me which APA you are talking about, and what exactly that APA
said. (I don't want to hear the answer from someone else - I want to
hear it from LASZLO, the cult expert)
Jim Beebe:
>Laszlo?? Have you actually read Margaret Singer's classic book, "Cults in our
>Midst"? I really doubt it.
Of course not :-)
>The APA stated "...
>
>Will you please post where the APA stated this. You can't, of course, as your
>statement is a typical scientologist lie.
One APA did, but I bet Laszlo will not be able to provide the details,
as the only information he has is fourth hand propaganda.
Tilman
Martin Hunt
In article <6c7jof$hnq$1...@nnrp2.dejanews.com>, lasz...@computron.net wrote:
>Just remember that the author of the articel is Margaret Singer...
>I would also question her state of mind to be sound, but that's another
>discussion.
No, let's take it up now, rather than just let ugly little
innuendoes like that slide. You're a Moonie, right? You believe
in infestations of little demons, just like the Scientologists,
right?
I question *your* state of mind, cult apologist.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"I was involved in Scientology for five years. I am a Class IV
auditor and a Clear. The only thing they want from you is your
money." - hoo...@aol.com (HOOTkm)
Michael Voytinsky
Tilman Hausherr <352318d3...@news.snafu.de> wrote:
>Two anonymous cult apologists, "Bernie" and "Wizard", claimed that by
>the definition of a cult, an army would be one. Although I think I
>debunked this "argument", here the same is done by experts:
>
>How the United States Marine Corps Differs from Cults
>http://www.rickross.com/reference2/brainwashing2.html
Most of the points are valid, but not all. The ones that are wrong are
sufficiently wrong to cast the credibility of the whole thing in doubt:
>The Marine recruit clearly knows what the organization is that he or she is
joining.... There are no secret stages such as people come upon >in cults.
Except for the secret hazing rituals. (This got a fair amount of press
recently, but has been going on for quite a while.)
>In the USMC, public records are kept and are available.
Unless they are classified. (This may well be for valid reasons of
national security - but the above statement is nevertheless questionable.)
>Rational behavior is valued in the USMC. Cults stultify members' critical
thinking abilities and capacity for rational, independent thinking; >normal
thought processes are stifled and broken.
Large part of military training is to follow orders without taking the time
to consider whether they are good ones or not.
>Marines cannot be used for medical and psychological experiments without
their informed consent.
US military personnel have been used for medical and psychological
experiments without their informed consent in the past. Further, the courts
have repeatedly decided that the military is not liable for damages. (ie.
the above statement is 100% bullshit)
>Adequate and properly balanced nourishment is provided and advocated in the
USMC. Many cults encourage or require unhealthy and >bizarre diets.
Typically, because of intense work schedules, lack of funds, and other cult
demands, members are not able to maintain >healthy eating habits.
True, except for the high cholesterol content in military food.
>In the USMC, the methods of instruction are military training and
education, even indoctrination into the traditions of the USMC, but
>brainwashing, or thought reform, is not used. Cults influence members by
means of a coordinated program of psychological and social >influence
techniques, or brainwashing.
And what does basic training do? It is a massive regiment of
psychological and social influence techniques, complete with sleep
deprivation.
Cheers
Michael
--
Michael Voytinsky
mich...@igs.net
Ottawa Ontario Canada
http://www.igs.net/~michaelv/
----- Heil Xenu und Eli Lilly! Prozac fur allen!
Bloody Viking
lasz...@computron.net wrote:
: Just remember that the author of the articel is Margaret Singer and her
: "theory" on brainwashing is the core subject of the article. The APA stated
: that they do not consider her research in this area to be scientifically
: sound.
While the Marines don't _QUITE_ make it as a cult, it has been studied as
it is very much like one. The Navy is also a lot like a cult too. That's
why I'm here! LRH used the Navy as a blueprint for the cult of
Scientology, a fact you can't deny. LRH only added the cult features that
the Navy lacks, and it is obvious as shit he was using the Navy as the
blueprint. I couldn't help but see the Navyness when I read the web pages.
Seriously, your cult has boot camp brigs and ships, as well as an
organisational structure like the Navy. The Navy is basically "Scientology
Lite". I have a web page about the Navy, and it's not pretty.
http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/Seppo_Navy.html
Read that web page and compare my horrid expierences to that of the Sea
Org. The Sea Org is only WORSE than the Navy.
--
CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680
"A man's car is his battleship"
1909845 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Lars Westergren
>Two anonymous cult apologists, "Bernie" and "Wizard", claimed that by
>the definition of a cult, an army would be one. Although I think I
>debunked this "argument", here the same is done by experts:
>
>How the United States Marine Corps Differs from Cults
>http://www.rickross.com/reference2/brainwashing2.html
It might not be quite as bad as a real cult, but having done my
military service in the Swedish army there sure are some similarities.
And from I have read about the US marines, they are much worse.
Cheers,
Lars
****
Scientology has sued thousands to prevent you from reading this:
http://www.xenu.com
****
Angela808
>From: lasz...@computron.net
>Date: Sun, Feb 15, 1998 15:38 EST
>
>In article <352318d3...@news.snafu.de>,
> til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>>
>> Two anonymous cult apologists, "Bernie" and "Wizard", claimed that by
>> the definition of a cult, an army would be one. Although I think I
>> debunked this "argument", here the same is done by experts:
>>
>> How the United States Marine Corps Differs from Cults
>> http://www.rickross.com/reference2/brainwashing2.html
>
>Just remember that the author of the articel is Margaret Singer and her
>"theory" on brainwashing is the core subject of the article. The APA stated
>that they do not consider her research in this area to be scientifically
>sound.
>I would also question her state of mind to be sound, but that's another
>discussion.
>Tillman is at his best, regurgiating stuff that was not digestable in the
>first place. After a while it REALLY gets
>boooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiing
YOU ARE SPOT ON, LASZLO.
Margaret Singer, a San Francisco psychologist, had been the self-proclaimed
"cult" expert, and "expert witness" against religions in certain court cases.
She was also a vocal supporter of deprogramming, and definitely downplayed
kidnapping for deprogramming, and other civil rights deprogramming abuses.
In one 1990 case in San Francisco, California Superior Court Judge, Stuart
Pollack, discredited her "expert testimony", by stating, "[Singer's
declaration] plainly contained no competent evidence concerning the state of
mind of the plaintiffs."
A different case in '88, US District Judge, Lowell Jensen, stated, "The
evidence before the court....shows that neither the APA [American Sociological
Assoc.] nor the ASA [American Sociological Assoc.] has endorsed the views of
Dr. Singer..on thought reform." "[Her] proffered testimony in this case has
been challenged by the scientific community on grounds of both scientific merit
and methodological rigor." "[Such individuals] ...may now have to limit their
ability to accumulate substantial fees, " he continued, "in those areas of
litigation where they can testify...If these...individuals remain so committed
to this school of thought, they should direct their attention to making it
fully accepted by the scientific community; and not the force of considerable
controversy that the government's papers establish it is."
And yes, per that definition of a "cult" an army would be one.
Today, the word "cult" is a buzz-word used by religious bigots to persecute
minority religions.
Rosa maxim
>Subject: Re: How the United States Marine Corps Differs from Cults
>From: ange...@aol.com (Angela808)
>Date: Sun, Feb 15, 1998 19:22 EST
>Message-id: <19980216002...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
>
>>From: lasz...@computron.net
>>Date: Sun, Feb 15, 1998 15:38 EST
>
>>
>>In article <352318d3...@news.snafu.de>,
>> til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>>>
>>> Two anonymous cult apologists, "Bernie" and "Wizard", claimed that by
>>> the definition of a cult, an army would be one. Although I think I
>>> debunked this "argument", here the same is done by experts:
>>>
>>> How the United States Marine Corps Differs from Cults
>>> http://www.rickross.com/reference2/brainwashing2.html
>>
>>Just remember that the author of the articel is Margaret Singer and her
>>"theory" on brainwashing is the core subject of the article. The APA stated
>>that they do not consider her research in this area to be scientifically
>>sound.
>>I would also question her state of mind to be sound, but that's another
>>discussion.
>>Tillman is at his best, regurgiating stuff that was not digestable in the
>>first place. After a while it REALLY gets
>>boooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiing
>
>YOU ARE SPOT ON, LASZLO.
And you Angela have now confirmed yourself to be a liar.
I have watched and watched , and I now see that your record
is absolutely 100% in support of any moonie comment ,
whether it has gone against your other comments or not.
You are agreeing with any one on any point , if you feel
they are supportive of the UC. Your unbiased claims are
clearly fraudulent , as you yourself are. I have noticed that
several regular Moon loyalists have dissapeared recently ,
just as you are coming along. This makes me wonder if you
are a front screen name for one of those. You are supporting
people and not ideals. This tells me you are far too
connected emotionally to the UC. Why ? What is the reason?
It is a favorite ploy of Moonies and any other deceiver to
parade around with their different "identities" , are you one
of these ?
Far more often than members , the critics seem willing to put
their true identities in the open and stick with them.
Some of the people you have defended have been guilty of
the things you accuse critics of. Yet you overlook their sins.
Why ? Because you are a liar , who cares nothing about truth
and is defending a maniac , rather than taking a stand for what
you believe to be truth. You are a fraud. It takes so little time
for people's real selves to come out.
I am concerned about truth. Not men. Not religions. Not
politics. I am opposed to things I believe are in error , and
will walk up to my own pastor to tell him so. In fact , ask my
wife. Less than a month ago , I stood up and walked out of
my own sunday school class , because I was opposed to
what was being taught and the manner in which it was taught.
I was not making a show either. I simply could not participate
in what was going on and politely walked up to the teacher
asked to be excused and left the class , with my wife closely
behind me. I was not going to participate , and I was not going
to sit there in judgement of the rest of the class for doing so.
My only option , was the one I took.
And an amazing thing happens when you take a stand for
what is right (especially when you "are" right). It affects other
people , and usually in a positive way. In fact , later on , I saw
the teacher , and we discussed what I believed to be wrong.
He agreed with my observations and told me that he himself
had some reservations about his methods before the class , but
didn't listen to his doubts. He said that I was right , and
apologized for the situation. I missed class the next week ,
because I had been invited to sing in another church , but I
was told that he actually apologized to the whole class. Not only
that , but the next week , he asked me to be a group leader in
the class. This person is a wonderful brother who loves Jesus
Christ. I have always felt close to him and enjoyed his class and
just his love for and service to the living God.
I just didn't agree with what went on that day. What is also
amazing is that this person is a fairly wealthy business owner
who is well known and well respected in the community , and
yet in front of God's word , he is humbled. He and I are peers
in the love of God. He does not believe himself to be better
than anyone else in our church and is willing to humble
himself to a fellow brother when he believes he is wrong.
When God is the center of your life , none of us can be proud.
We are all equals in front of him.
Go See : CRAIG MAXIM's HOMEPAGE !!!
http://members.aol.com/Rosamaxim/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Large Site w/ Pictures-Downloads-Music & More !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About My Life w/ Rev. Moon !
Tilman Hausherr
In <19980216002...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, ange...@aol.com
(Angela808) wrote:
>A different case in '88, US District Judge, Lowell Jensen, stated, "The
>evidence before the court....shows that neither the APA [American Sociological
>Assoc.] nor the ASA [American Sociological Assoc.] has endorsed the views of
>Dr. Singer..on thought reform." "[Her] proffered testimony in this case has
>been challenged by the scientific community on grounds of both scientific merit
>and methodological rigor." "[Such individuals] ...may now have to limit their
>ability to accumulate substantial fees, " he continued, "in those areas of
>litigation where they can testify...If these...individuals remain so committed
>to this school of thought, they should direct their attention to making it
>fully accepted by the scientific community; and not the force of considerable
>controversy that the government's papers establish it is."
Would you please post the transcript of the decision in full? Or are you
just parroting scientology's Freedom Magazine / the new Cult Awareness
Work?
And don't forget to fill the "..."s.
For a weird reason, you completely forgot to prove your allegation that
she supported kidnapping.
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr ** Inventor of the "Driving Principle" **
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/faq-you/moonies.txt
"What I don't understand is how anyone can take
seriously a newspaper that is controlled (...) by the agents of a
foreign government. No one would take them seriously if it was
Bangladesh. No one would take them seriously if it was France."
(WP's Ben Bradlee about the Washington Times)
Bloody Viking
Lars Westergren (lawe...@student.uu.se) wrote:
: It might not be quite as bad as a real cult, but having done my
: military service in the Swedish army there sure are some similarities.
: And from I have read about the US marines, they are much worse.
I couldn't help but see the Navy's cult-like features. And LRH also
realised it.
--
CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680
"A man's car is his battleship"
1914537 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/