For European-Americans interested in Native American spirituality
Flora and Eric Floen
>
> So you're a European-American
>
> who's attracted
>
> to Native American spirituality...
>
>
---------------<Snip!>-------------------------
>
> It is good to respect the Native American, for reasons you understand
> well. One way of honoring him is to leave his
> religion, his spirituality, his ancestors, to him! But there's another
> obligation, too. Don't you owe it to your own ancestors -
> whose blood and bone and soul you are - to seek them first? The thousands
> of generations of forefathers and
> foremothers, warriors, hunters, and explorers, heroes and rogues alike,
> call to you. They are your kin. They beckon you -
> to heal our people, to heal our world, and to walk again the way of the
> warrior and the wise one. They call you home. Will
> you answer?
I read this with a smile on my face and tears in my eyes.
this post summed up so many of the reasons why I am what I am, and how I
feel about our ancestors. They reach out thier hands to us, if only we
bother to see that they are there!
So beautiful that they would want to reach out and save us from the
empty faith of a Dead Earth, hostile to it's children. This empty faith
urges us to fear our dead, kill the earth beneath our feet, and
denigrates our brothers and sisters, who walk in fur, and feathers, and
scales. Worse, it causes us to hate our bodies (which are our closest
friends) and deny pleasure as go and wholesome to the body and the
relationships we have with the people we love. Love is love. There is
no bad love. There is no wrong way to care, or to love, if nobody is
hurt or exploited, and everybody is old enough and consentual...
Europe was once a very different place.
Our tribal ancestors a very different people.
Find out who they are, as this post invites, you might be surprised, but
these were people you could be proud of!
Suddenly all serious,
FLORA
Yw0hO
So you're a European-American
who's attracted
to Native American spirituality...
The way of the American Indian offers much to those who want to live in
harmony with the Earth, and with the own beings.
The simplicity of a life close to nature, and the powerful techniques of
the shaman, call out to all of us who want to walk
lightly on this planet and to know the journeys of the soul that make one
wise. Many people, including those of European
ancestry, feel the pull of this spiritual path.
However, there is something to consider. Many Native Americans feel that
you should seek out the ways of your people,
rather than intruding upon their ways. They understand your interest in
their traditions, but they think you should look for
something that is yours.
Well, just what IS yours?
Long ago, Europeans too were tribal peoples. From the British Isles all
the way across the Continent, the Celts and the
Germans and others lived in great forests and along rugged seacoasts. Our
way of living was much like that of the
American Indians whom you admire. The Earth was our mother, Thor rattled
in the thunder, Odin led the Wild Hunt, Freya
showed us that women could be both beautiful and strong. The tree
Yggdrasil held the Nine Worlds in its embrace, and
the web of Wyrd connected all things. Our ancestors lived in us, and
spoke in our dreams, and in the eyes of our children.
The way of the indigenous Europeans had much that you will recognize. The
vision quest? The Norsemen called it utiseta,
or "sitting out." Sweatlodges? The sauna was sacred to the Birch Goddess.
Great warriors? Our history abound in them.
Honoring the Earth? Brooks, rocks, trees - all had spirits to be
befriended. Shamans? Odin, father of the Gods, was a
master shaman!
Then, things changed. A new faith came to our forested lands from a far
country where our tribes had never dwelled. It
came with sword and fire, and killed or exiled those who would not accept
the alien way. Many thousands of us died
rather than submit, but eventually the church bells drove the land
spirits into hiding, and even the Mighty Powers could
not be seen for the pall which hung over our spirits. And so it stayed,
for many centuries, and we brought this alien way
with us when we came to the land we named America. It was not tribal
Angles or Saxons or Iceni who treated the Native
Americans wrongly; it was a people cut off from their soul, and from the
wisdom of the generations.
But time passes, and now something new is happening. The way of old
Europe, so long crushed and repressed, is once
again accessible to its far-flung sons and daughters! And that's where
you come in.
TsalagiWmn
>The way of the American Indian offers much to those who want to live in
[snipped}
I don't who you are but...that was a beautiful post.....thank you for saying
what we have been trying to say....I hope your words will be taken to heart....
In Struggle,
T
"It is better to die on your feet, than live a life time on your knees" Zapata
Rich
>>From: yw...@aol.com (Yw0hO)
>
>>The way of the American Indian offers much to those who want to live in
>[snipped}
>
>I don't who you are but...that was a beautiful post.....thank you for saying
>what we have been trying to say....I hope your words will be taken to heart....
This post is an extract from a flyer that the Asatru Folk Assembly
puts out. Those who are interested in the organization can find out
more at <http://runestone.org/>. It is a very active group and they
have an fine page. I have had the chance to meet Steve McNallen, who
formed the assembly, and he is quite dedicated to his beliefs.
Rich
Keely
on??
Maqua
Yw0hO wrote in message <19990220212115...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
>
>
> So you're a European-American
>
> who's attracted
>
> to Native American spirituality...
>
>
Your post was beautiful...and I respect your point of view, but do not
agree.
jAMES jONES
>
>
> However, there is something to consider. Many Native Americans feel that
> you should seek out the ways of your people,
> rather than intruding upon their ways. They understand your interest in
> their traditions, but they think you should look for
> something that is yours.
>
>
You know, I did try that. I was Asatru for a few months, was with a good Kindred,
and was actually considered pretty good at it. Unfortunately I realized that it
didn't really have what I was looking for. The version of shamanism they had was
called Seidh. A path that was almost completely reserved for women. Those who I
talked to who were my brothers, I felt a connection to,but no more than anyone else
whose company I enjoy. After I did my first real sweat, my experiences with Asatru
seemed not as, well, "real" to me, if that makes sense. I tried to hold on to it
tightly, with the grip of a truly desperate man. It slipped through my fingers,
like sand. After a conversation with my Elder, who was also 1/4 Cherokee, he
pointed out that for anyone who payed attention, it seemed that "didn't do it that
well", it was like putting a square peg in a round hole. I wanted so much for
Asatru to work, because the path that I had walked for most of my life was bitterly
lonely, and their concept of tribe would have been a homecoming. It was not meant
to be. I guess the whispers of some of those at the ceremony were correct when
they named me as a brujo.Later
James J.
Rich
wrote:
>
>
>You know, I did try that. I was Asatru for a few months, was with a good Kindred,
>and was actually considered pretty good at it. Unfortunately I realized that it
>didn't really have what I was looking for. The version of shamanism they had was
>called Seidh. A path that was almost completely reserved for women. Those who I
>talked to who were my brothers, I felt a connection to,but no more than anyone else
>whose company I enjoy. After I did my first real sweat, my experiences with Asatru
>seemed not as, well, "real" to me, if that makes sense. I tried to hold on to it
>tightly, with the grip of a truly desperate man. It slipped through my fingers,
>like sand. After a conversation with my Elder, who was also 1/4 Cherokee, he
>pointed out that for anyone who payed attention, it seemed that "didn't do it that
>well", it was like putting a square peg in a round hole. I wanted so much for
>Asatru to work, because the path that I had walked for most of my life was bitterly
>lonely, and their concept of tribe would have been a homecoming. It was not meant
>to be. I guess the whispers of some of those at the ceremony were correct when
>they named me as a brujo.Later
>James J.
>
Hey, it either resonates with you or it doesn't. I really liked a lot
of the Asatruar I met and feel that they have a great thing going on.
The Nordic/Germanic panthion and archetypes just don't move me,
despite where many of my roots may lie.
Rich
>
twy...@webtv.net
and for those of us who are half-breeds and have roots in both lands,
you prefer to shove us back across the water... i have studied my Irish
roots shamanic traditions, but have LIVED my entire life in my Native
ROOTS here... too bad you so avidly disapproved of me first off all
those weeks ago, we might have been friends...
twyxt
Maqua
Rich wrote in message <36d059b2...@news.cwo.com>...
>On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:26:23 GMT, jAMES jONES <tla...@bellsouth.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>You know, I did try that. I was Asatru for a few months, was with a good
>Hey, it either resonates with you or it doesn't. I really liked a lot
>of the Asatruar I met and feel that they have a great thing going on.
>The Nordic/Germanic panthion and archetypes just don't move me,
>despite where many of my roots may lie.
>
>Rich
>>
>
:) Sometimes, me wonders if Them knows more than we do. :)
Them refering to....the Big Mystery...up there (pointing)...down there
(pointing)...over there (pointing)...and there.. (pointing)........etcetera
etcetera.
Good grief I've got bad breath...I should brush my teeth now.
Maqua
the giggling Bear
Flora and Eric Floen
>
> In article <19990220224718...@ng-ce1.aol.com>,
> tsala...@aol.com (TsalagiWmn) wrote:
> > >From: yw...@aol.com (Yw0hO)
> >
> > >The way of the American Indian offers much to those who want to live in
> > [snipped}
> >
> > I don't who you are but...that was a beautiful post.....thank you for saying
> > what we have been trying to say....I hope your words will be taken to
> heart....
> >
>
>
> I'll say the same thing I said over on alt.native in response to the same
> subject. The Asatru Folk Assembly is trying to use this as a recruiting
> tool. Yes it is good for Europeans (or anyone else) to look into their own
> heritage, but the AFA is "fer sure" bad news, having a rightist political and
> white separatist racial orientation & some outright connections of some of
> its members to neo-Nazi and even Satanist groups. The best place IMHO to
> look if one is interested in the old European religions is Isaac Bonewits and
> the ADF (www.neopagan.net and www.adf.org). There are also Wicca, the Church
> of All Worlds, several Celtic groups etc... If it is specifically Norse
> religion you are interested in there are groups like the Ring of Troth that
> are not tainted with association with the racist right wing. Whatever you do
> don't fall for the AFA's clever but deceptive recruiting they are trying to
> do right now. Asatru in any case was a Viking Era Scandinavian religion and,
> unless you are of Scandinavian ancestry, is not part of your heritage.
>
> Klanwatch/Southern Poverty Law Center has the AFA listed as a hate group in
> case you're wondering just how far out in right field they are.
>
>
I gotta admit this guy has a point and that's why I am an Animist
Buddhist, who sometimes becomes a Traveler. But that Neo-Natzi crap is
bad Jazz, Man. Poision. Better spit it out.
But...Your Ancesters are REALLY longing to meet you, and it would really
add to anybodys good Ju-ju, to take the time to go back and greet them
with the love that they will most assuredly offer in return.
Jest thinkin,
FLORA
heepst...@my-dejanews.com
******danger*******poison******
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Rich
>******danger*******poison******
>
>I'll say the same thing I said over on alt.native in response to the same
>subject.
I'll respond also.
>The Asatru Folk Assembly is trying to use this as a recruiting
>tool. Yes it is good for Europeans (or anyone else) to look into their own
>heritage, but the AFA is "fer sure" bad news, having a rightist political and
>white separatist racial orientation & some outright connections of some of
>its members to neo-Nazi and even Satanist groups.
Please document your allegations.
>The best place IMHO to
>look if one is interested in the old European religions is Isaac Bonewits and
>the ADF (www.neopagan.net and www.adf.org).
Sure, if you want neo-pagan stuff. Some of his reading suggestions are
pretty good.
There are also Wicca, the Church
>of All Worlds, several Celtic groups etc...
What does either Wicca or the Church of all worlds have to do with
traditional European religions?
>If it is specifically Norse
>religion you are interested in there are groups like the Ring of Troth that
>are not tainted with association with the racist right wing. Whatever you do
>don't fall for the AFA's clever but deceptive recruiting they are trying to
>do right now. Asatru in any case was a Viking Era Scandinavian religion and,
>unless you are of Scandinavian ancestry, is not part of your heritage.
>
>Klanwatch/Southern Poverty Law Center has the AFA listed as a hate group in
>case you're wondering just how far out in right field they are.
Now I seriously question your statements. I have just returned from
the Klanwatch/SPLC website and the AFA is not on any list that they
have. Look for your self at <http://hatewatch.org/us.html>, you can
scan the lists or run searches yourself. Nothing. Where are you
getting this information from? Why are you posting these charges
without any documentation? [BTW for a contrasting vies of SPLC, see
"Dubious Charges Raise Questions About Klanwatch Credibility" from THE
NEW AMERICAN at
<http://www.primenet.com/~tevans/newamerican/020695N2.html>]
Rich
Osric Thule
Yw0hO wrote:
So you're a European-American
who's attracted
to Native American spirituality...
The way of the American Indian offers much to those who want to live in
harmony with the Earth, and with the own beings.
The simplicity of a life close to nature, and the powerful techniques of
the shaman, call out to all of us who want to walk
lightly on this planet and to know the journeys of the soul that make one
wise. Many people, including those of European
ancestry, feel the pull of this spiritual path.
However, there is something to consider. Many Native Americans feel that
you should seek out the ways of your people,
rather than intruding upon their ways. They understand your interest in
their traditions, but they think you should look for
something that is yours.
Well, just what IS yours?
Long ago, Europeans too were tribal peoples. From the British Isles all
the way across the Continent, the Celts and the
Germans and others lived in great forests and along rugged seacoasts. Our
way of living was much like that of the
American Indians whom you admire. The Earth was our mother, Thor rattled
in the thunder, Odin led the Wild Hunt, Freya
showed us that women could be both beautiful and strong. The tree
Yggdrasil held the Nine Worlds in its embrace, and
the web of Wyrd connected all things. Our ancestors lived in us, and
spoke in our dreams, and in the eyes of our children.
--------Snip-------
Greetings, to this poster and to all,
I seldom post in this group, but I think here I will interject, regarding this post. I do not pretend to speak for the Native American populace, in whole or part. I cannot attribute the attitude above to a large or small portion of that population, as I have to reliable data on the matter, and less do I need it. If the Native American were to think such a thing, we would have a very valid point. Likewise the author of this post has a lucid point, in directing the attention of the Euro-American to his or her own native spirituality. It is true that the Celts as well as the Ingvaeones, Tuetones, Goths and other Germanic peoples were tribal in their social infrastructure, and they did have "shamans" so to speak. In the light of recent posts concerning the semantic problems with the word "shaman", I will clarify that this word was not used, nor does the contemporary "pop shamanism" movement resemble this ancient tradition any more than it does any other. The ancient Germanic tribes, likewise promoted in their life-way a reverence for the ancestors, and the ancestral ways. These tribes, most notably the Angles, Jutes, Saxons, and Frisians, are the cultural precursors of our English speaking country. Anyone who thinks in English (or Dutch, or German, for that matter) is entitled to this cultural and spiritual heritage. It is a very rich heritage, easily seen under the modern veneer of vernacular culture, although often trivialized by uncouth modern Americans, who have lost track of their innate sense of "self". Recently, I read a post wherein the author (whom I would credit if I remembered who it was), compared the Euro-American's quest for exotic spirituality to a childhood nutritional defficiency called "pica". This ailment prompts children to eat dirt, as an instinctual attempt to compensate for iron defficiency in the diet. What the child craves is good nutrition; however in the absence of good food, dirt will have to suffice. This is not to imply that other cultures or disciplines are "dirt", but merely that the Indo-European soul seeks for something which has been taken, and instinctually grasps for anything that may be able to replace it, even for a little while. Mainstream American culture is baneful to the soul, and many Anglo-Saxon folks turn to Native-American, or Oriental, or other more autoclthonous (organic) life-ways in an attempt to find or recreate what is missing. This can be achieved with varying degrees of success, but is often a treacherous path. The Euro-American seeker who finds haven in foreign ports is often mistrusted for reasons real or percieved, by the native practicioners. Or, the wayward nature of this quest may lead to "flaky" behaviour, or spiritual vacilation. This retards growth. In the end, what the Euro-American may find most satisfying is mother's milk--the genuine article. This rare source of spiritual nourishment is not entirely gone with the advent of Christianity, as some may think. There is a small but growing neo-tribal community among persons of Scandinavian and Germanic descent. This community like the ones discussed above, may be a source of strength to many, but is of greatest value to the peoples who originated it. It is the legacy of the Angles, Saxons, Danes and Norse, and it belongs to the progeny of these noble people, who deserve the reverence of their scions as much as any other tribe.
I hope that the European Americans who read this will consider these words, before they go to eat dirt.
Wesath eall hal,
Osric Wuldorleof
Thyle
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For information on the life-way of the Anglo-Saxon heathen, open our
web-publication at:
Flora and Eric Floen
>
. And I would propose this idea, one that I have found from
> anyone who is an avid seeker. ANY path, no matter what bloodline you
> are from, no matter who practiced that path before you will be equally
> difficult, no matter what, if you are genuinely looking for spiritual
> advancement. From the shamans I knew years ago, their paths were just
> as difficult as that of the yogi, or of the gothi trying to achieve true
> understanding of Wyrd. When you get down to brass tacks, it doesn't
> matter who you are, what path you take, or anything. In the end, it is
> only getting "there", going through the Chapel Perilous, being your own
> Prometheus and bringing back the fire of spiritual wisdom and power.
Amen brother! This post is great because the poster struck at the core
of spiritual dicipline---DICIPLINE IS HARD WORK!
But to live it, is to sing your prayer with every footstep you take on
the Road of this life. Introspect and embrace the observer, then promise
not to coddle him. It not in anyone's best intrest to take the easy
way. Besides, the best thing in the world is to take the scenic route,
and give it all away, and you will find that you have more than you know
what to do with. It works. My obsessively self-interested sister just
told me so tonight, in complete shock, that the more she gives up, the
easier it all gets. So if it's good enough for the Dali Lama (who
actually performs some shamanic practices) it's good enough for me. Say
what you like.
> the curse of knowledge. He knows the true secret, that it is all right
> there, inside of him. And you. And me. And that nothing he can say,
> or do, will deliver all those he loves. I cannot tell you how to get
> there, only that there is a "there" to get too. I am just joyous that I
> will die with the knowledge, with the seeing of heaven, if only for a
> brief instant.
>
> James J.
> Viator
And I'll bet it was worth it, too.
I pray those will be the words on my dying lips. "It was worth it."
Because those are the words that prove that even if all you get in one
lifetime is a glimpse, barely imagined, you did not forget it. Wow.
Even the Zen philospher, that many Western people call Christ, said that
that "The Kingdom of god is whithin you." And that is truth, said so
many different ways by so many different faiths, and said by so many
people, that I have to belive it is true.
Look within, Guys. It's there. This guy knows his shit.
FLORA
jAMES jONES
> . This is not to imply that other cultures or disciplines are "dirt",
> but merely that the Indo-European soul seeks for something which has
> been taken, and instinctually grasps for anything that may be able to
> replace it, even for a little while. Mainstream American culture is
> baneful to the soul, and many Anglo-Saxon folks turn to
> Native-American, or Oriental, or other more autoclthonous (organic)
> life-ways in an attempt to find or recreate what is missing. This can
> be achieved with varying degrees of success, but is often a
> treacherous path.
I have thought about this for awhile, and it did strike a cord in me. I
remember reading somewhere, "The only maps that take you anywhere are
the ones you draw yourself. The rest, dead ends." So far, in my life,
I have been a Christian, Yogi, Taoist, Erisian, and Asatru. Usually I
went from each path because it explained my experiences adequately at
the time. And I would propose this idea, one that I have found from
anyone who is an avid seeker. ANY path, no matter what bloodline you
are from, no matter who practiced that path before you will be equally
difficult, no matter what, if you are genuinely looking for spiritual
advancement. From the shamans I knew years ago, their paths were just
as difficult as that of the yogi, or of the gothi trying to achieve true
understanding of Wyrd. When you get down to brass tacks, it doesn't
matter who you are, what path you take, or anything. In the end, it is
only getting "there", going through the Chapel Perilous, being your own
Prometheus and bringing back the fire of spiritual wisdom and power. I
tried to deny what I learned in the Te Mezcal, and in the knowledge the
All put into my mind, when I gave of my own flesh for the knowledge. In
the end, no gods and goddesses can save you or help you. This, friend,
is why Odin sits uncomfortably upon his throne. Not because of
Ragnarok, because he knows it is but a rebirth. It is because he knows
Scary Goldmine
Subject: Re: breaking Planck Barrier
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2004 12:19:15 +0000
From: Saul-Paul Sirag <si...@lagrange.five>
Reply-To: si...@lagrange.five
To: Tony Smith <tsm...@lagrange.seven>
Tony Smith wrote:
Jack, I may be slow, but after more thought I see how the
Planck Barrier is broken and I now think that the 4 mouths
are
1 - surface of Compton Radius Vortex in our ordinary
spacetime
2 - ring singularity in our ordinary region of spacetime
3 - ring singularity in repulsive gravity/negative distance
region
4 - surface of Classical Radius Vortex in repulsive gravity/
negative distance region
My HyperDiamond Planck Scale Lattice stuff was NOT
fundamental because it was at the smallest scale possible,
but it IS fundamental because it is the Bridge Scale that
connects Ordinary SpaceTime with Exotic SpaceTime.
Accordingly, I have revised my web page at URL
http://tony.ai/worm4holes.html
and its mirror
http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/worm4holes.html
Thanks, Jack, for your patience in explaining stuff to me
when I was wrong. Sorry that I am so dense that it took so
long.
Tony 29 Sep 04
**********************************************************************
Saul Paul Sirag writes:
Tony,
Thank you for posting my little piece on S4 on your web
page:
http://tony.ai/worm4holes.html
I should immediately correct your definition of OD on the
first page of this posting. You say:
TD x Z2 = K4 x S3 x Z2 = S4 x Z2 = OD
Actually OD is the double cover of O, just as SU(2) is the
double cover of SO(3). This means that O is the factor
group OD/Z2; but it does NOT mean that OD is O x Z2. There
is a 48 element group O x Z2.
Call it OE (for O extended); it has various labels in the
literature, including this one. OE is the full symmetry
group of the octahedron (or cube). This means that it
contains not only rotations of the octahedron
but reflections as well. In other words OE is to O as O is
to T; so that O and TE are the same group. Where these
differences really show up is in the representation
structure of the groups and thus in the structure of the
group algebra. For example, OE is a 48 element group, whose
group algebra is simply the
sum of two copies of the O group algebra: C[OE] = C[O] +
C[O]; whereas C[OD] = C[O] + P + D, where P is the complex
Pauli algebra, and D is the complex Dirac algebra, which are
Clifford algebras as I explained in the
posting.
Thus while TD x Z2 = OD (just as T x Z2 = O); it is NOT true
that TD x Z2 = K4 x S3 x Z2. Of course, K4 x S3 x Z2 = S4 x
Z2 = OE (and NOT OD as explained above).
On the naming of groups there is no universal consensus. As
you know, Coxeter started out calling TD, OD, and ID
"binary" polyhedral groups. The word "binary" clashes with
the related binary error- correcting
codes which the McKay correspondence brings into the
picture. I have used the word "double" in correspondence
with the language of the chemists and crystallograpers.
See for example: R.L. Flurry Jr., Symmetry Groups: Theory
and Chemical Applications. In the glossary of this book, he
defines:
"Double groups. Groups containing operations and
representations suitable for handling systems of
half-integer angular momentum." This definition would
include all the double cover situations, especially SO(3) =
SU(2)/Z2. This book is especially strong on character tables
of the small finite groups such as I am discussing.
There is another point I should mention, but I will write
about it at more length later. You are discussing "Breaking
the Planck Barrior," but you should be aware that
superstring theory has long ago broken the
Planck barrior. This means that the Wheeler picture of the
Planck region -- where space-time breaks up into a "quantum
foam" -- is not true in superstring theory. From the point
of view of superstring theory, as we
look at smaller and smaller regions of spacetime, when we
approach the Planck realm spacetime vibrates more and more
but does not break up. Rather it goes hyperdimensional --
i.e. it goes from 4-d to 10-d.
But what about the tremendous zero-point fluctuations?
Here's a, seemingly, little known fact: The zero-point
fluctuations of the 2-d string world sheet can be calculated
and have been shown to be finite
only for a 10-d superstring spacetime. The spacetime
dimensionality of superstring theory has been calculated
by (at least) three different methods. The zero-point
fluctuation method was that of L. Brink and H.B. Nielsen in
a 1973 paper:
A Simple Physical Interpretation of the Critical Dimension
of Space-Time in Dual Models, Physics Letters, Vol. 45B, No.
4, 6 August 1973. [This paper is included in the anthology,
Superstrings: the First 15 Years of Superstring Theory, Vol.
1, edited by John H. Schwarz, World Scientific, 1986.
Chapter 3, which contains the Brink & Nielsen paper is
called "No-Ghost Theorems and Determination of D = 10.]
I think that you will find that you (& Jack & others) are
tunneling into superstring theory by way of a kind of
membrane theory.
I have noticed also that Matti Pitkanen, who put down string
theory in (q-mind: 18 Sep 2004) in reply to Stan Klein
(q-mind: 16 Sep 2004) is now seeing a correspondence between
his "infinite prime" approach and
supersymmetry. He must know that supersymmetry was
discovered in the context of string theory: in 1971 it was a
symmetry brought in to provide a way to treat fermions in
the string theory context. Before
1971, superstring theory was a 26 dimensional bosonic
theory. Incidentally, the Brink & Nielsen calculations deal
with both the 26-d bosonic string theory and the 10-d
superstring theory. This is important because the heterotic
string theory (which entails E8 x E8 as gauge group) is a
breeding together of the 26 and 10 dimensional theories. In
fact the 16-d mismatch between these two spacetimes is
covered by the 16-d Cartan subgroup of E8 x E8 (or the 16-d
Cartan subgroup of SO(32)/Z2 in the D16 version of heterotic
theory).
It is to be noted that all 5 competing superstring theories
are now subtheories of membrane theory -- M-theory, which
makes a master theory of the 11-d supergravity theory with
gauge group E7, where the 7 hidden
dimensions are simply the 7-d Cartan subgroup of E7.
I think all of us have different insights into the
"Elephant." It is ultimately the A-D-E "VALIS" entity we are
trying to describe IMHO. Maybe I should call this theory the
VADE theory for VALIS A-D-E. This
nomenclature would echo Phillip K. Dick's VALIS as well as
the second book of his VALIS trilogy: The Divine Invasion.
All for now.
Saul-Paul
Nonlinear Eigenvalue
>
> > . This is not to imply that other cultures or disciplines are "dirt",
> > but merely that the Indo-European soul seeks for something which has
> > been taken, and instinctually grasps for anything that may be able to
> > replace it, even for a little while. Mainstream American culture is
> > baneful to the soul, and many Anglo-Saxon folks turn to
> > Native-American, or Oriental, or other more autoclthonous (organic)
> > life-ways in an attempt to find or recreate what is missing. This can
> > be achieved with varying degrees of success, but is often a
> > treacherous path.
>
Until you've tie yourself to a tree for nine nights and received runic
visions while your inner eye links up/down Mirmir's well of wyrd
synchronicities and improbable imponderables... uhhh, this was going
somewhere... but got lost in Cameron's Chapel Perilous of Titanic waves
of Paranoooia Will Deeestrooooya, and it looks like this:
THE JAMES CAMERON CONSPIRACY THEORY
http://x11.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=333891137&threaded=1&CONTEXT=919767382.347078662&hitnum=7
Being one of the most successful movies in the world is an astounding
statement from people who have seen James Cameron's "TITANIC". It is a
reflection of how many people have been affected by the imagery and
emotion within the film. Although there have been those who have found
fault in parts of Titanic's technical side, the emotional side turned out
to be perfect; or was it deliberately engineered that way? Some have
called the emotion within Titanic manipulative to the point of
deliberately having scenes that elate, sadden, shock and anger the
audience.
This manipulation is an interesting aspect of Mr. Cameron's work. No
matter what he works on or writes, the emotional atmosphere always is
perfect in the finished product and according to Cameron is "biographical"
of his life. Born in Canada in 1956, James Cameron has always strived to
be the best, whether they were class projects or playing soldier with his
friends. According to Cameron's "official" biography, his childhood
created the drive to overcome obstacles which stood in his way and would
help later in life.
At this point in history, another person, who shares the surname Cameron,
was at work making progress manipulating behavior and emotion for a
deliberately engineered goal. The person is Dr. Donald Ewen Cameron.
Dr. Cameron began his career in psychology assisting the Office of Special
Services (O.S.S.), interrogating prisoners during World War II. His most
famous patient was Rudolf Hess, who flew in a plane to Britain in order to
make a peace deal between Germany and the Allies. Hess was captured and
imprisoned and later was interviewed by several psychiatrists, including
Dr. Cameron. Much of Dr. Cameron's work, involved psychiatric techniques
designed to modify and control a persons behavior patterns. Dr. Cameron's
work was derived from experiments performed on concentration camp
prisoners in Nazi Germany and brought to the U.S. after World War II by
the O.S.S. under "Operation Paper Clip".
In the 1950's, Dr. Cameron's successful work led to his appointment as
head of the American Psychological Association (APA), the Canadian
Psychological Association (CPA) and the World Psychological Association
(WPA). By this time the O.S.S. had changed it's name under President
Harry Truman's Administration to become the Central Intelligence Agency
(C.I.A.) in 1947. Dr. Cameron was contracted by the C.I.A. to continue
his work in behavior manipulation under Projects Bluebird and Artichoke
which would later become MK-ULTRA in 1953.
MK-ULTRA had several sub-programs, approximately 149, from fields ranging
from biology, drugs, sexual activities, technology, physics, psychology
and even motion pictures. It's no accident that movies created in the
McCarthy era in the 1950's, were designed to scare the public about the
threat of Communists, brainwashing or space aliens. Hollywood's motion
pictures became a tool of MK-ULTRA.
In the world of psychiatry, Dr. Cameron was a relentless, merciless man
driven by a need to know how to control and modify human behavior, in
other words, direct it. His most common experiments were drug
inducement, sensory deprivation, sensory overload, as well as "psychic
driving", the process of replaying his voice recorded in previous sessions
with his patients. Dr. Cameron also performed prefrontal lobotomies and
electro-conclusive shock treatments.
According to the CIA's charter, Dr. Cameron's work, especially in creating
potential "Manchurian Candidates" would have violated the ban on domestic
CIA operations within the United States. With the help of the Canadian
government and C.I.A. Director Allen Dulles, who was one of Cameron's
colleagues in the O.S.S., Dr. Cameron relocated his work to the Allen
Memorial Psychiatric Institute in Montreal, Canada in 1957 and stayed
there until 1963.
On a side note, Allen Dulles would run the C.I.A. until after the Bay of
Pigs fiasco, when he and General Charles Cabell (brother of Earl Cabell,
the mayor of Dallas) were fired by President John F. Kennedy in 1961.
After the tragedy of John F. Kennedy's assassination on November 22, 1963
in Dallas, Dulles was appointed to Warren Commission by Chief Justice Earl
Warren to help investigate the assassination and the background of
supposed assassin or patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald.
The Allen Institute would soon become an infamous brain butchery under Dr.
Camerons control. Many patients were subjected to extreme and harsh
conditions that included drug induced comas that lasted months,
lobotomies, bright lights, sounds, moving images and electro-shocking that
were in such excesses that it killed the patients. Other creations of Dr.
Camerons butcher shop included the development of psychedelic drugs, most
notably, LSD.
After Dr. Cameron left Montreal, he retired to private life in the United
States and vanished from the picture, but his work continued on in
MK-ULTRA until it was supposedly shut down by CIA Director Richard Helms
in 1973. Many of the documents from MK-ULTRA were destroyed on orders
from Helms. Helms was also responsible for providing E. Howard Hunt with
the information necessary for the break-in at the Watergate hotel in 1972
for the purpose of helping President Richard Nixon smear Daniel Ellsberg,
the Pentagon aide who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Watergate would
eventually lead to the resignation of Nixon in 1974.
The murky world of intelligence operations became murkier as names changed
to protect secrecy. MK-ULTRA simply assumed the new name MK-SEARCH and
continued on into 1984.
In the late 1970's as MK-SEARCH(MK-ULTRA) continued on the intelligence
front, a yet unknown film maker in California, named James Cameron decided
to quit his job driving trucks and get into the film making business.
According to "official history" James Cameron, after attending five
semesters at Fullerton College in Orange County, California, convinced a
consortium of dentists from Tustin, California seeking a tax writeoff to
finance a short film. The word "consortium" is interesting in itself;
it's dictionary term is given as "international business alliance". Since
these dentists are from a local area, why are they described in this
manner? If "business" is dropped from the definition, we're left with
"international alliance" meaning they belong to some large organization
which envelops the world.
In actuality, these "dentists" were "psychiatrists" and operatives
connected to the CIA's MK-ULTRA program and Dr. Donald Ewen Cameron.
James Cameron as well as the "psychiatrists" knew each other from a
fraternal organization they belonged to. This secret brotherhood helped
finance Cameron's first film and would continue to help his career. He
had entered this organization when he turned 21 years of age. The
majority of persons in intelligence community, including Dr. Cameron
belonged to the same organization, which is commonly known as the
FREEMASONS
The Freemasons are a global fraternal organization that exist for the
express purpose of enlightening those who choose to join it's ranks.
According to public sources, Freemasonry was created in the 1700's in
Europe, but if one delves deeper into the mysteries that make up Masonry,
it is learned that the origins of the brotherhood trace back to a highly
advanced civilization named Atlantis which existed before the one we're in
now. Much of the high technology, advanced thinking and philosophical
ideals were handed down through the generations in secret after the "Great
Flood" destroyed Atlantis.
This technology would be revealed to the people of the world once again at
a prescribed moment in time. It's no accident the 20th Century is one of
the most technological achieving centuries in our civilization. This
century saw the creation of techniques that would be used to control the
mind as we saw earlier in this document with the CIA's implementation of
Dr. Cameron's mind experiments and MK-ULTRA technology.
The reason the "consortium" approached James Cameron was for the
opportunity to use in the motion picture field for the purposes of
subliminal imagery and emotional manipulation on mass numbers of people
and prepare them for an engineered future.
James Cameron continued on from his short-film project to enter the world
of Roger Corman. The studio owned by Corman was aptly named "New World
Pictures". The "New World" was short for "New World Order" a phrase that
embodies the idealism of Freemasonry, a global government. The phrase
wouldn't be uttered in public until 1991 by President George Bush(Former
Director of the CIA and 33rd Degree Mason).
Cameron worked as miniature builder, model unit DP and matte painter on a
film called "Battle Beyond the Stars" in which the title was symbolic of a
belief held by many in the UFO community as well as Freemasons, that an
ancient battle took place in this solar system about 12,000 years ago.
The idea was to use MK-ULTRA technology to begin preparing the masses for
the belief in extra-terrestials for the purpose of bringing humanity into
the "New World Order". More of this would be used later in Cameron's film
career.
Determined to get into directing, Cameron worked on another sci-fi film
with a symbolic name, "Galaxy of Terror". Cameron became second unit
director.
In 1982, during the early years of the administration of President Ronald
Reagan(33rd Degree Mason), Cameron wrote "The Terminator" along with his
2nd wife Gale Anne Hurd, who's a member of the Order of the Eastern Star,
a Masonic women's organization.
The basic idea of "The Terminator" involved sending a man back through
time to prevent a cyborg from killing a woman who would give birth to
humanity's savior who would save humanity from a world ruled by machines.
The symbology of this story was taken from the Bible with the woman's
situation somewhat compared to the "virgin mary" and humanity's savior
paralleled to her son.
The Freemasonic symbolism in the Terminator was prevalent through out the
movie. One of the first signs was the use of "blue light" used in dark
situations and would later become one of Cameron's directing styles.
The blue light was symbolic of Cameron's ascension from the first three
degrees of Masonry which are known as the blue lodges, to the next level
of degrees which are known as the York Rite.
The next symbol was the use of a particular set of words by one of the
characters who described the machines as "a new order of intelligence".
You can hear the words "New World Order" in the sub-text.
The most concrete symbol was the name of the distributor for the film.
Although Cameron worked with Hemdale and HBO to get the film made, the
film was distributed by Orion Pictures. Orion is symbolic of Osiris, the
ancient Egyptian god of the Sun and fertility.
This sun-worship symbol is heavily used in Freemasonry to represent light
and fertility or the "compass" in the square and compass symbology of
Masonry. Osiris's counterpart Isis, is symbolic of Sirius, the star
system in which Freemasons believe they came from as well as being the
symbol for the carpenter's square in the "square and compass" symbol.
The purpose of Orion's release of "The Terminator" was to be the first
mass use of Dr. Cameron's work in a James Cameron film. The film was
designed to imprint a subliminal message to unconsciously prepare the
public for a higher form of technology to arrive on Earth in the future
and if they didn't go along with it, they would be exterminated. Note
that "terminated" is part of "exterminated".
While Cameron was unknowingly getting financing from the "consortium" for
"The Terminator", he wrote two more scripts, "Rambo: First Blood Part II"
and "Aliens". The subtitle "First Blood Part II" from the Rambo title was
symbolic of Cameron's ascension throughout the York Rite degrees, while
"Aliens" was being prepared as another step in manipulating the minds of
the public with MK-ULTRA technology.
After "The Terminator's" success, Cameron directed "Aliens" and began
production in 1985 in England. The film was directed in England so
Cameron could receive the rest of his York Rite degrees in the town of
York while on breaks from shooting the film.
Aliens, was the sequel to Alien, a 1979 movie about Earth explorers
searching another planet for use as a mining colony. When they got there,
they were slowly hunted down by the inhabitants of that world, which were
acid-blooded creatures; insect like as adults, and as snake-like parasites
when young that used the humans as hosts and eventually killed them by
bursting out of their chests. Aliens debuted in 1986.
The film became one of the highest grossing 軍' rated films and also won
Oscars for Best Visual Effects and Best Sound. It was fairly obvious to
anyone with the knowledge in this document that the fear and excitement
generated by the sounds and effects of the movie was the result of mind
manipulation for the purpose of further solidifying the fact that humans
will one day face a threat from outside this world and force them to unify
as one.
Once Cameron has finished this film, he had completed his York Rite
degrees in Masonry and had moved on into the Scottish Rite. It's also
worthy to note during this time in 1985 and 1986, 33rd Degree Mason
President Ronald Reagan had made several speeches alluding to a threat
from the "outside" that would unify the world.
Next on Cameron's list of films was the ABYSS, a film about a group of oil
rig workers who help recover a sunken nuclear submarine and are
unknowingly being watched by another form of intelligence. In the special
edition of the film, it was made clear that the aliens were warning the
human race to come together as one or face destruction.
During the shooting of the movie, Cameron had been "trained" by the
"consortium" in techniques similar to Dr. Cameron's "Psychic Driving" by
pushing the workers and actors on the set to the limit. According to
published reports, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio was pushed to such a limit
that she now avoids Cameron like the plague. To this day, Ed Harris
refuses to even talk about his experience with Cameron on the set. "The
Abyss" was also the first movie with the "morphing" technique which makes
a photo-realistic computer animation which was used to spellbound the
audience. The film had also gained Oscars for Best Visual effects, more
proof of MK-ULTRA now being involved with the addition of computer
technology.
The film was released to the public in 1989. This was the same year as
the swearing in of President George Bush and fall of the Berlin Wall in
Germany which was a staged event by the Masons to prepare the world for a
global coming together as one. The name "Abyss" was symbolic of Cameron
getting ever deeper into information which is privy to the Freemasons.
In 1990 Cameron co-wrote "Point Break" with his third wife and Order of
the Eastern Star member, Kathryn Bigelow, who directed. He became an
executive producer on the film and the film was released in 1991 and went
on to make $100 million and topped the video rental charts. Although the
film was about a group of persons who robbed banks, a lot of subliminal
imagery was added to the film, which explains why the film was popular.
Lightstorm Entertainment became a new production company created by
Cameron and financed by the "consortium". The name Lightstorm was
allegedly symbolic of the appearance of the Terminator in the films but
was really symbolic of Cameron receiving more intellectual light from the
Masons. The first film that would be produced by Cameron's new company
was Terminator 2. Judgment Day, the sequel to the Terminator.
The title of "Terminator 2: Judgment Day" was symbolic of the future war
to come because of technology, to further embolden the public to a form a
destruction beyond of their control.
The film also featured the use of computer technology to make a morphing
character that would leave the audience with chills. The character was
created at Industrial Light and Magic. "Light and Magic" is symbolic of
the mysteries inside of Masonry. All of the revenues from Terminator 2,
including the box office receipts, video, TV and merchandising made close
to 1 Billion dollars.
More incidents of "psychic driving" had also taken place. One of them
being an incident involving Edward Furlong, who played John Connor in the
film, and lip balm. He was coerced by an under-cover "consortium" member
to use the lip balm. After shooting a scene and congratulating Furlong
for his performance, Cameron noticed the lip balm on Furlong's lips and
yelled at him for screwing up the scene. After this, Furlong admitted in
an interview that the incident left him paranoid about the rest of the
shoot.
To some people outside of the "consortium" this mind control technology
was becoming apparent and needed to be covered up. Cameron's script for
the film was rewritten with some parts removed to conceal facts related to
the technology. ........
Remainder, see:
http://x11.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=333891137&threaded=1&CONTEXT=919767382.347078662&hitnum=7
======================================================================================
Rich
<bifur...@androids.com> wrote:
>
>According to "official history" James Cameron, after attending five
>semesters at Fullerton College in Orange County, California, convinced a
>consortium of dentists from Tustin, California seeking a tax writeoff to
>finance a short film. The word "consortium" is interesting in itself;
>it's dictionary term is given as "international business alliance". Since
>these dentists are from a local area, why are they described in this
>manner? If "business" is dropped from the definition, we're left with
>"international alliance" meaning they belong to some large organization
>which envelops the world.
Tee Hee. What planet is this posted from?
>
>In actuality, these "dentists" were "psychiatrists" and operatives
>connected to the CIA's MK-ULTRA program and Dr. Donald Ewen Cameron.
>James Cameron as well as the "psychiatrists" knew each other from a
>fraternal organization they belonged to. This secret brotherhood helped
>finance Cameron's first film and would continue to help his career. He
>had entered this organization when he turned 21 years of age. The
>majority of persons in intelligence community, including Dr. Cameron
>belonged to the same organization, which is commonly known as the
>FREEMASONS
>
>The Freemasons are a global fraternal organization that exist for the
>express purpose of enlightening those who choose to join it's ranks.
>According to public sources, Freemasonry was created in the 1700's in
>Europe, but if one delves deeper into the mysteries that make up Masonry,
>it is learned that the origins of the brotherhood trace back to a highly
>advanced civilization named Atlantis which existed before the one we're in
>now. Much of the high technology, advanced thinking and philosophical
>ideals were handed down through the generations in secret after the "Great
>Flood" destroyed Atlantis.
Oh, that planet!
Rich (who is a Freemason and had no idea all of our secret Masonic
technology was from Atlantis)
jAMES jONES
Erisian in a thread, you INVARIABLY get a post like this on the thread,
just to humble and amuse all involved. ;P
James J.
MMmmmm....Love that Chaos.
jAMES jONES
You get a smirk
James J.
jAMES jONES
again. Sorry for the repetition.
> Amen brother! This post is great because the poster struck at the core
> of spiritual dicipline---DICIPLINE IS HARD WORK!
>
>
Actually, IMHO discipline is not the hardest part. The hardest part, for
me(and it is different for everyone), was that the core of the matter is
sooooo much simpler yet stranger than I ever thought it could be. Oh, and one
good consolation is that there are an infinite number of "Universal Mind
Numbing Soul Blasting Truths" out there. And what is really freaky is that
"there" is here(meaning the person making the statement) AND there(somewhere
else). And the most dominant thing I know now is that not only do I, as a
condensed ball of energy(just like everyone else on this really condensed ball
of energy), not know that much, fundamentally, I CAN'T know that much
fundamentaly. It is awfully hard to make a good dent in infinity. But you
can get some popcorn and watch the show.
> But to live it, is to sing your prayer with every footstep you take on
> the Road of this life. Introspect and embrace the observer, then promise
> not to coddle him. It not in anyone's best intrest to take the easy
> way.
I remember one thing they use in India(oh, no, Eastern Religion. RUN AND
HIDE!!!!!) is called Neti, Neti, meaning not that, not that. It was a "clever
way" to lead the student "around the barn" until he/she realized that he/she
was going around in circles. For those really into Eastern type stuff, yes,
this is part of the dance of Shiva. Sorry for this digression into <Dramatic
doom music> EASTERN RELIGION!!!
> Besides, the best thing in the world is to take the scenic route,
> and give it all away, and you will find that you have more than you know
> what to do with.
Yeah, but be careful. That is one thing that the Asatru taught me well. It
is important to have awesome mojo stuff, enlightenment and all that, but it is
also important to make sure you can eat, etc. Or maybe that is something else
I need to learn. Who knows?
> It works. My obsessively self-interested sister just
> told me so tonight, in complete shock, that the more she gives up, the
> easier it all gets. So if it's good enough for the Dali Lama (who
> actually performs some shamanic practices) it's good enough for me. Say
> what you like.
>
The Dali Lama is the man. I wanna be just like him when I grow up(around the
age of 80 or so)
>
>
> And I'll bet it was worth it, too.
>
>
Only if taken with a healthy dose of humor, "banish with laughter" as one
source says. If you get all gothic and stuff with it, you tend to end up like
a troll*.
*Troll-You know, the guys you see after you've been out on a party binge at
4:00AM sitting in the back of a Waffle House alone eating corned beef hash
with grey skin and a film over their eyes muttering about the "True Hideous
Nature of the Universe", and the "Horrible Unknowable Truth".
Remember, that knocking on the door isn't the insurance salesman, it's the
universe calling you out to play(I'm serious, think about it), and we the only
creatures on the planet Earth who aren't responding, except maybe some other
non-domesticated primates. If you can handle it, read Hakim Bey.
> I pray those will be the words on my dying lips. "It was worth it."
> Because those are the words that prove that even if all you get in one
> lifetime is a glimpse, barely imagined, you did not forget it. Wow.
>
Yeah, BUT WAIT, there's more!!!!
> Even the Zen philospher, that many Western people call Christ, said that
> that "The Kingdom of god is whithin you." And that is truth, said so
> many different ways by so many different faiths, and said by so many
> people, that I have to belive it is true.
>
Yeah, but one of the things that shamanistic research shows us can best be
summoned up by the following story. <PARABLE, RUN, AGAIN!!!!> Two men were
having a conversation, one of the individuals worked in a psych ward and he
told the other one about someone who thought he was God. The man thought
about that and replied, "It wasn't in thinking he was God that he had an
error, it is in that he thinks he is special." That is one of the big things
the indigenous semi-domesticated primates can(and should) teach us mongrel
too-domesticated primates, that not only are all people "God" but also all
trees, rocks, etc., etc., etc.
> Look within, Guys. It's there. This guy knows his shit.
I know a smidge, but anyone can, hell, I'm wondering why everyone hasn't yet.
James J.
Flora and Eric Floen
>
> I tried to post this once, already, but I think it got lost, so here it is
> again. Sorry for the repetition.
>
> > Amen brother! This post is great because the poster struck at the core
> > of spiritual dicipline---DICIPLINE IS HARD WORK!
> >
> >
>
> Actually, IMHO discipline is not the hardest part. The hardest part, for
> me(and it is different for everyone), was that the core of the matter is
> sooooo much simpler yet stranger than I ever thought it could be. Oh, and one
>
> good consolation is that there are an infinite number of "Universal Mind
> Numbing Soul Blasting Truths" out there. And what is really freaky is that
> "there" is here(meaning the person making the statement) AND there(somewhere
> else). And the most dominant thing I know now is that not only do I, as a
> condensed ball of energy(just like everyone else on this really condensed ball
>
> of energy), not know that much, fundamentally, I CAN'T know that much
> fundamentaly. It is awfully hard to make a good dent in infinity. But you
> can get some popcorn and watch the show.
>
Yah but as I consider infinity, and the condensed ball of energy that I
am, there is this feeling that is more than a suspicion that we are all
part of a much larger ball of energy, that we all call by various names
that don't really matter. Our differences that separate us are
percieved, and I am coming to a belief that perhaps it may even be true
that even our state of being (health, age, appearance) may well be as
percieved and thus ephemeral as our separateness.
> > But to live it, is to sing your prayer with every footstep you take on
> > the Road of this life. Introspect and embrace the observer, then promise
> > not to coddle him. It not in anyone's best intrest to take the easy
> > way.
>
> I remember one thing they use in India(oh, no, Eastern Religion. RUN AND
> HIDE!!!!!) is called Neti, Neti, meaning not that, not that. It was a "clever
>
> way" to lead the student "around the barn" until he/she realized that he/she
> was going around in circles. For those really into Eastern type stuff, yes,
> this is part of the dance of Shiva. Sorry for this digression into <Dramatic
> doom music> EASTERN RELIGION!!!
>
Not scared, I'm a Buddhist. A very sub-standard Buddhist, but Eastern
religion doesn't scare me a bit. On the other hand, the threat of
having to run advanced Mathematical Computations without a calculator
scares me a great deal.
But how else can we learn and grow without these experiential tools with
which to compare our observations? No experience is wasted if you learn
something from it and that is such a well recognised truth that it
sounds like cheap bromide to repeat it.
> > Besides, the best thing in the world is to take the scenic route,
> > and give it all away, and you will find that you have more than you know
> > what to do with.
>
> Yeah, but be careful. That is one thing that the Asatru taught me well. It
> is important to have awesome mojo stuff, enlightenment and all that, but it is
>
> also important to make sure you can eat, etc. Or maybe that is something else
>
> I need to learn. Who knows?
>
Think about it a little and tho it feels like it was a useless journey,
I can tell from the way tht write about it that you got something out of
it... Even if it was a lesson in how not to let folks take advantage of
you. At least you now know where you DONT want to be, and what you
Don't want to do.
It's called discernment. Gotta know what's a danger to you and avoid
those dangers, without fearing them. Or the truely gifted practicioner,
can even turn those dangers into healing experiences for those dangers
involved and pull the whole thing into a transformative experience for
everybody.
> > It works. My obsessively self-interested sister just
> > told me so tonight, in complete shock, that the more she gives up, the
> > easier it all gets. So if it's good enough for the Dali Lama (who
> > actually performs some shamanic practices) it's good enough for me. Say
> > what you like.
> >
>
> The Dali Lama is the man. I wanna be just like him when I grow up(around the
> age of 80 or so)
>
Yah. The DL is the Bomb. And he has such a wry sense of humor.
> >
> >
> > And I'll bet it was worth it, too.
> >
> >
>
> Only if taken with a healthy dose of humor, "banish with laughter" as one
> source says. If you get all gothic and stuff with it, you tend to end up like
>
> a troll*.
>
> *Troll-You know, the guys you see after you've been out on a party binge at
> 4:00AM sitting in the back of a Waffle House alone eating corned beef hash
> with grey skin and a film over their eyes muttering about the "True Hideous
> Nature of the Universe", and the "Horrible Unknowable Truth".
>
Sounds Lovecraftian. Or like a member of the OTO. No really tho, people
who talk about horrible unknowable truths really do have a film over
thier eyes. It's not UN-knowable, just difficult to see, and if you are
not in the right place at the right time, and know what you are looking
for, you can miss seeing the whole damn thing, just like some people
never see the little songbird in a bush, less than a foot away from
them, while the birdwatcher is staring and aghast that the bonehead
missed it.
Gotta have some idea what you are looking for and realize that it might
appear to be something else untill closer inspection. It would be
funny, if it wasn't so tragic, that the secrets of the universe may
appear, at first, to be a bubble-gum wrapper dropped carelessly by a
child.
> Remember, that knocking on the door isn't the insurance salesman, it's the
> universe calling you out to play(I'm serious, think about it), and we the only
>
> creatures on the planet Earth who aren't responding, except maybe some other
> non-domesticated primates. If you can handle it, read Hakim Bey.
>
> > I pray those will be the words on my dying lips. "It was worth it."
> > Because those are the words that prove that even if all you get in one
> > lifetime is a glimpse, barely imagined, you did not forget it. Wow.
> >
>
> Yeah, BUT WAIT, there's more!!!!
>
> > Even the Zen philospher, that many Western people call Christ, said that
> > that "The Kingdom of god is whithin you." And that is truth, said so
> > many different ways by so many different faiths, and said by so many
> > people, that I have to belive it is true.
> >
>
> Yeah, but one of the things that shamanistic research shows us can best be
> summoned up by the following story. <PARABLE, RUN, AGAIN!!!!>
Aw 'Cmon and really scare 'Em. Let's call it a Zen Koan...
Two men were
> having a conversation, one of the individuals worked in a psych ward and he
> told the other one about someone who thought he was God. The man thought
> about that and replied, "It wasn't in thinking he was God that he had an
> error, it is in that he thinks he is special." That is one of the big things
> the indigenous semi-domesticated primates can(and should) teach us mongrel
> too-domesticated primates, that not only are all people "God" but also all
> trees, rocks, etc., etc., etc.
It's called self-cherishing motivation. I'm not talking about healthy
respect for the self, as evidenced by a person who knows well that he
can make a difference in this world, but a self- pampering that can turn
to jealously, selfishness, and callousness. Another term might be
narcissistic self- AGRANDIZMENT. I think to be careful with oneself is
okay, this means you realize you have value. The problem is when ones
emotions run away with them and a person reckons their value way out of
the realm of the value they assign to others. It's okay to cherish
oneself alot if you assign equal preciousness to everything else, in
fact, this can be a good thing. The problem is when the scales tip out
of balance.
>
> > Look within, Guys. It's there. This guy knows his shit.
>
> I know a smidge, but anyone can, hell, I'm wondering why everyone hasn't yet.
>
> James J.
Dunno James. Some people are lazy, some are just younger souls. Maybe
they forget more than we did on thier way thru, from thier previous
existance, sometimes thier childhood experiences in this one blind them,
tho others have childhoods that open their eyes. That is a question
that I would have to say is unanswerable, because we have not yet
attained omnicience. We can only answer as best we can for ourselves,
bear our Karma, and try to learn. We help others with thier journies as
we can and hope we lead none astray in our efforts.
That's the best I can offer,
Blessings,
FLORA
jAMES jONES
> > Actually, IMHO discipline is not the hardest part. The hardest part, for
> > me(and it is different for everyone), was that the core of the matter is
> > sooooo much simpler yet stranger than I ever thought it could be. Oh, and one
> >
> > good consolation is that there are an infinite number of "Universal Mind
> > Numbing Soul Blasting Truths" out there. And what is really freaky is that
> > "there" is here(meaning the person making the statement) AND there(somewhere
> > else). And the most dominant thing I know now is that not only do I, as a
> > condensed ball of energy(just like everyone else on this really condensed ball
> >
> > of energy), not know that much, fundamentally, I CAN'T know that much
> > fundamentaly. It is awfully hard to make a good dent in infinity. But you
> > can get some popcorn and watch the show.
> >
>
> Yah but as I consider infinity, and the condensed ball of energy that I
> am, there is this feeling that is more than a suspicion that we are all
> part of a much larger ball of energy, that we all call by various names
> that don't really matter. Our differences that separate us are
> percieved, and I am coming to a belief that perhaps it may even be true
> that even our state of being (health, age, appearance) may well be as
> percieved and thus ephemeral as our separateness.
>
Ahh, but it does matter. If we saw things as they actually were, then many things
would take on a whole new level of difficulty. Could you imagine trying to do all
the stuff you do when you get up in the morning if you saw all of the visual
spectra, or even worse, if you saw things on an energy pattern basis. The illusion
is good, it helps quite a bit. But it also helps quite a bit to be able to peek
around the curtain from time to time to see what really is going on.
> Not scared, I'm a Buddhist. A very sub-standard Buddhist, but Eastern
> religion doesn't scare me a bit. On the other hand, the threat of
> having to run advanced Mathematical Computations without a calculator
> scares me a great deal.
>
Then you should be esp. frightenend, as I am heavily Taoist influenced. That and
Discordianism goes together like peanut butter and bananas.
> But how else can we learn and grow without these experiential tools with
> which to compare our observations? No experience is wasted if you learn
> something from it and that is such a well recognised truth that it
> sounds like cheap bromide to repeat it.
>
Yeah, but repetition is the best way to learn.
> > > Besides, the best thing in the world is to take the scenic route,
> > > and give it all away, and you will find that you have more than you know
> > > what to do with.
> >
> > Yeah, but be careful. That is one thing that the Asatru taught me well. It
> > is important to have awesome mojo stuff, enlightenment and all that, but it is
> >
> > also important to make sure you can eat, etc. Or maybe that is something else
> >
> > I need to learn. Who knows?
> >
> Think about it a little and tho it feels like it was a useless journey,
> I can tell from the way tht write about it that you got something out of
> it... Even if it was a lesson in how not to let folks take advantage of
> you. At least you now know where you DONT want to be, and what you
> Don't want to do.
>
Oh, yeah, I learned a lot. For example, I learned that this whole genetic
spirtuality thing is in my case a buch of hoey. It works best for those who don't
want to rip reality apart and reassemble it into much more interesting patterns.
Which is OK, though collage work is so much fun. ;P
> It's called discernment. Gotta know what's a danger to you and avoid
> those dangers, without fearing them. Or the truely gifted practicioner,
> can even turn those dangers into healing experiences for those dangers
> involved and pull the whole thing into a transformative experience for
> everybody.
>
Oh, yeah, discernment. I was absent that day, sorry. I was also absent during the
prudence seminar and the workshop on how not to stumble into huge enclaves of high
wierdness on an almost daily basis.
> >
> > *Troll-You know, the guys you see after you've been out on a party binge at
> > 4:00AM sitting in the back of a Waffle House alone eating corned beef hash
> > with grey skin and a film over their eyes muttering about the "True Hideous
> > Nature of the Universe", and the "Horrible Unknowable Truth".
> >
> Sounds Lovecraftian. Or like a member of the OTO. No really tho, people
> who talk about horrible unknowable truths really do have a film over
> thier eyes. It's not UN-knowable, just difficult to see, and if you are
> not in the right place at the right time, and know what you are looking
> for, you can miss seeing the whole damn thing, just like some people
> never see the little songbird in a bush, less than a foot away from
> them, while the birdwatcher is staring and aghast that the bonehead
> missed it.
>
Aww, be nice to the OTO. They are one of the few groups that I can get along with
without having to shut down half of my frontal lobe. Actually, the film is from the
whole, "I know the horrible truth of the universe" type thing, you know, seeing the
infinite horror and what not.
> Gotta have some idea what you are looking for and realize that it might
> appear to be something else untill closer inspection. It would be
> funny, if it wasn't so tragic, that the secrets of the universe may
> appear, at first, to be a bubble-gum wrapper dropped carelessly by a
> child.
>
Yeah, that would be the "Purloined Letter syndrome". The answer to the whole
question is simple, too simple. So simple in fact that I missed it completely on
several ocassions, and now that I have found it, well, I'm looking at a trip to
Disneyland. ;P
> >
>
> Aw 'Cmon and really scare 'Em. Let's call it a Zen Koan...
>
>
Mmm....Koan.
> >
> > > Look within, Guys. It's there. This guy knows his shit.
> >
> > I know a smidge, but anyone can, hell, I'm wondering why everyone hasn't yet.
> >
> > James J.
>
> Dunno James. Some people are lazy, some are just younger souls. Maybe
> they forget more than we did on thier way thru, from thier previous
> existance, sometimes thier childhood experiences in this one blind them,
> tho others have childhoods that open their eyes. That is a question
> that I would have to say is unanswerable, because we have not yet
> attained omnicience. We can only answer as best we can for ourselves,
> bear our Karma, and try to learn. We help others with thier journies as
> we can and hope we lead none astray in our efforts.
>
Oh, and sometimes being grim and brooding is good, just to mess with the minds of
everyone else, usually followed by dressing in pastel plaid the next day, or mix the
two. Fun!!!!!
> That's the best I can offer,
Mmmm..nifty. Well, I have to go vacilate(I just LOVE that word) now. Oh, and btw,
check out the page that was a the bottom of the original post.
http://haedengyldas.webjump.com
It is just such a hoot, I love it. Though I have yet to see anyone do something
like that for the Irish(I'm 1/4 Irish). I guess for spirituality we just fight,
talk pretty well and hate the English. ;P Oh, and I do a LOT of work with the Fair
Folk. If you want for me to talk your ear off, ask me about my theory of what the
Good People and changelings really are.
Toodles
James J.
Flora and Eric Floen
compromise on issues like this, but you have a point and so do I. If
you are coming to this thru a foundation of cerimonial magik, I might
snicker at you, but try not to take it personally, and remember that I
have only rudimentry math skills, when unaided by technology. Besides,
playing with you is fun.
Our illusion of the everyday is a useful simplification. Lets agree on
that, too. But it is like assigning a number quantity a letter to stand
for what it might be, so we can get on with the business of the theory,
before worrying about the concreteness and variation of actual
computations that will change with contexts.
> > Not scared, I'm a Buddhist. A very sub-standard Buddhist, but Eastern
> > religion doesn't scare me a bit. On the other hand, the threat of
> > having to run advanced Mathematical Computations without a calculator
> > scares me a great deal.
> >
>
> Then you should be esp. frightenend, as I am heavily Taoist influenced. That and
> Discordianism goes together like peanut butter and bananas.
>
Oops! I bet we share an aquaintance. Know a Pola? If you don't I know
you'd like to. She'd take you on, and teach us all how to play. But I
feel strongly that she might not approve of peanut butter and bananas.
How bout ham n' eggs?
> > But how else can we learn and grow without these experiential tools with
> > which to compare our observations? No experience is wasted if you learn
> > something from it and that is such a well recognised truth that it
> > sounds like cheap bromide to repeat it.
> >
>
> Yeah, but repetition is the best way to learn.
>
I don't know about you, but I only have to hit my hand with a hammer
once, to know that I don't want to *that* again.
> > > > Besides, the best thing in the world is to take the scenic route,
> > > > and give it all away, and you will find that you have more than you know
> > > > what to do with.
> > >
> > > Yeah, but be careful. That is one thing that the Asatru taught me well. It
> > > is important to have awesome mojo stuff, enlightenment and all that, but it is
> > >
> > > also important to make sure you can eat, etc. Or maybe that is something else
> > >
> > > I need to learn. Who knows?
> > >
> > Think about it a little and tho it feels like it was a useless journey,
> > I can tell from the way tht write about it that you got something out of
> > it... Even if it was a lesson in how not to let folks take advantage of
> > you. At least you now know where you DONT want to be, and what you
> > Don't want to do.
> >
>
> Oh, yeah, I learned a lot. For example, I learned that this whole genetic
> spirtuality thing is in my case a buch of hoey. It works best for those who don't
> want to rip reality apart and reassemble it into much more interesting patterns.
> Which is OK, though collage work is so much fun. ;P
>
Yup definately one for Pola. Oh. She's my sister. Less live and let
live much more live and let's destroy kind of person. She's a gas at a
party.
> > It's called discernment. Gotta know what's a danger to you and avoid
> > those dangers, without fearing them. Or the truely gifted practicioner,
> > can even turn those dangers into healing experiences for those dangers
> > involved and pull the whole thing into a transformative experience for
> > everybody.
> >
>
> Oh, yeah, discernment. I was absent that day, sorry. I was also absent during the
> prudence seminar and the workshop on how not to stumble into huge enclaves of high
> wierdness on an almost daily basis.
>
One with discernment does not avoid weirdness, that would be no fun!
But one with discernment knows how to have the most fun and get out with
the least amount of shit left sticking to you. That's where the
subtilty lies.
> > >
> > > *Troll-You know, the guys you see after you've been out on a party binge at
> > > 4:00AM sitting in the back of a Waffle House alone eating corned beef hash
> > > with grey skin and a film over their eyes muttering about the "True Hideous
> > > Nature of the Universe", and the "Horrible Unknowable Truth".
> > >
> > Sounds Lovecraftian. Or like a member of the OTO. No really tho, people
> > who talk about horrible unknowable truths really do have a film over
> > thier eyes. It's not UN-knowable, just difficult to see, and if you are
> > not in the right place at the right time, and know what you are looking
> > for, you can miss seeing the whole damn thing, just like some people
> > never see the little songbird in a bush, less than a foot away from
> > them, while the birdwatcher is staring and aghast that the bonehead
> > missed it.
> >
>
> Aww, be nice to the OTO. They are one of the few groups that I can get along with
> without having to shut down half of my frontal lobe. Actually, the film is from the
> whole, "I know the horrible truth of the universe" type thing, you know, seeing the
> infinite horror and what not.
>
Yup. Lovecraft. Cthulu theory-- the better you understand the (insert
horrible truth here) the more disassociated form normal reality you will
be. Ok, if you wanna buy it, that's your business. Like I said the art
is in getting out of that stuff with the least amount of shit left
sticking to YOU.
> > Gotta have some idea what you are looking for and realize that it might
> > appear to be something else untill closer inspection. It would be
> > funny, if it wasn't so tragic, that the secrets of the universe may
> > appear, at first, to be a bubble-gum wrapper dropped carelessly by a
> > child.
> >
>
> Yeah, that would be the "Purloined Letter syndrome". The answer to the whole
> question is simple, too simple. So simple in fact that I missed it completely on
> several ocassions, and now that I have found it, well, I'm looking at a trip to
> Disneyland. ;P
>
I'd say send us pictures, of you and Cthulu, at the happiest place on
Earth, but too bad about that film on your eyes...
> > >
> >
> > Aw 'Cmon and really scare 'Em. Let's call it a Zen Koan...
> >
> >
>
> Mmm....Koan.
>
:)
> > >
> > > > Look within, Guys. It's there. This guy knows his shit.
> > >
> > > I know a smidge, but anyone can, hell, I'm wondering why everyone hasn't yet.
> > >
> > > James J.
> >
> > Dunno James. Some people are lazy, some are just younger souls. Maybe
> > they forget more than we did on thier way thru, from thier previous
> > existance, sometimes thier childhood experiences in this one blind them,
> > tho others have childhoods that open their eyes. That is a question
> > that I would have to say is unanswerable, because we have not yet
> > attained omnicience. We can only answer as best we can for ourselves,
> > bear our Karma, and try to learn. We help others with thier journies as
> > we can and hope we lead none astray in our efforts.
> >
>
> Oh, and sometimes being grim and brooding is good, just to mess with the minds of
> everyone else, usually followed by dressing in pastel plaid the next day, or mix the
> two. Fun!!!!!
>
I knew someone in pastel plaid once. She had pinkish hair, and avacado
green trousers on with the pastel plaid coat. Yellow shirt underneath.
Defiately a fashion DONT. Very scary. Traumatized me for life. But
damn I stayed away form hair color, that's fer sure.
> > That's the best I can offer,
>
> Mmmm..nifty. Well, I have to go vacilate(I just LOVE that word) now. Oh, and btw,
> check out the page that was a the bottom of the original post.
> http://haedengyldas.webjump.com
>
> It is just such a hoot, I love it. Though I have yet to see anyone do something
> like that for the Irish(I'm 1/4 Irish). I guess for spirituality we just fight,
> talk pretty well and hate the English. ;P Oh, and I do a LOT of work with the Fair
> Folk. If you want for me to talk your ear off, ask me about my theory of what the
> Good People and changelings really are.
>
> Toodles
> James J.
Ok I rise to the bait. Tell me. Enquiring minds wanna know.
T.T.F.N.
FLORA
heepst...@my-dejanews.com
sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> >tool. Yes it is good for Europeans (or anyone else) to look into their own
> >heritage, but the AFA is "fer sure" bad news, having a rightist political and
> >white separatist racial orientation & some outright connections of some of
> >its members to neo-Nazi and even Satanist groups.
> Please document your allegations.
Well for starters here are some web sites:
http://www.stelling.nl/simpos/asatru.htm
http://members.mint.net/~grant//
Even more detailed specifics about the AFA can be found in the Coalition for
Human Dignity article that was floating around Usenet a while back. Check
DejaNews for the 'Steve McNallen & RuneStone' article posted by HeimdallR
Thorrvin to alt.religion.asatru and soc.culture.nordic a couple of months
back.
> There are also Wicca, the Church
> >of All Worlds, several Celtic groups etc...
> What does either Wicca or the Church of all worlds have to do with
> traditional European religions?
At least as much as the AFA does, that's for sure. Look, I'm well aware that
Gardner and Heinlein are the real sources for these religions, but what they
are doing is taking pieces of various old European traditions and applying
them to modern society. This eclectic approach makes far more sense,
especially given the mixed ancestry of most Euro-Americans and the fact that
we don't live in the 10th century anymore.
> Now I seriously question your statements. I have just returned from
> the Klanwatch/SPLC website and the AFA is not on any list that they
> have. Look for your self at <http://hatewatch.org/us.html>, you can
> scan the lists or run searches yourself. Nothing. Where are you
> getting this information from? Why are you posting these charges
> without any documentation?
That charge comes straight from the Asatru Folk Assembly's own magazine The
Runestone. If the AFA is claiming that SPLC is listing them as a hate group
when in fact they are not then you should take up the credibility issue with
the AFA.
> [BTW for a contrasting vies of SPLC, see
> "Dubious Charges Raise Questions About Klanwatch Credibility" from THE
> NEW AMERICAN at
> <http://www.primenet.com/~tevans/newamerican/020695N2.html>]
The New American is published by the John Birch Society. I sure hope you
aren't trying to imply that they are a credible source, because they aren't.
BTW the only CREDIBLE article I've seen questioning SPLC/Klanwatch has been
the one by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair, which was mainly
critical of SPLC's fundraising tactics and Morris Dees' excessive salary,
neither of which have any bearing on whether SPLC's material on hate groups
is accurate.
BTW why are you so adamant about defending the AFA? Are you a member? A
member of some far right group, perhaps? The John Birch Society reference
makes me think you might be.
Rich
>In article <36d39110...@news.cwo.com>,
> sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
>
>> >tool. Yes it is good for Europeans (or anyone else) to look into their own
>> >heritage, but the AFA is "fer sure" bad news, having a rightist political and
>> >white separatist racial orientation & some outright connections of some of
>> >its members to neo-Nazi and even Satanist groups.
>
>> Please document your allegations.
>
>Well for starters here are some web sites:
>
>http://www.stelling.nl/simpos/asatru.htm
There is nothing on this web site about AFA.
>http://members.mint.net/~grant//
This site is a link from the previous one. It doesn't mention AFA at
all, rather it DIFFERENTIATES Asatru from Volkism. You might read
these article first if you are going to cite them.
>
>Even more detailed specifics about the AFA can be found in the Coalition for
>Human Dignity article that was floating around Usenet a while back. Check
>DejaNews for the 'Steve McNallen & RuneStone' article posted by HeimdallR
>Thorrvin to alt.religion.asatru and soc.culture.nordic a couple of months
>back.
First, Heimdallr Thorvinn has been thrown out of every Asatru
organization he has been associated with. Second, the hit piece done
by CHD contains no documentation and does the old "guilt by
association" bit. I would suggest interested parties read the entire
thread for the reply of knowledgable Asatruar to this bit of trash. I
also note your posts there seem to consist of telling people that they
are full of shit.
>
>
>> There are also Wicca, the Church
>> >of All Worlds, several Celtic groups etc...
>
>> What does either Wicca or the Church of all worlds have to do with
>> traditional European religions?
>
>At least as much as the AFA does, that's for sure. Look, I'm well aware that
>Gardner and Heinlein are the real sources for these religions, but what they
>are doing is taking pieces of various old European traditions and applying
>them to modern society. This eclectic approach makes far more sense,
>especially given the mixed ancestry of most Euro-Americans and the fact that
>we don't live in the 10th century anymore.
Sound like the only type of tradition and spirituallity you approve of
is the sweetness & light type. So you don't care if the spirituallity
has any historical basis whatsoever or whether it was made up a few
years ago so long as it is "nice"?
>
>> Now I seriously question your statements. I have just returned from
>> the Klanwatch/SPLC website and the AFA is not on any list that they
>> have. Look for your self at <http://hatewatch.org/us.html>, you can
>> scan the lists or run searches yourself. Nothing. Where are you
>> getting this information from? Why are you posting these charges
>> without any documentation?
>
>That charge comes straight from the Asatru Folk Assembly's own magazine The
>Runestone. If the AFA is claiming that SPLC is listing them as a hate group
>when in fact they are not then you should take up the credibility issue with
>the AFA.
>
>> [BTW for a contrasting vies of SPLC, see
>> "Dubious Charges Raise Questions About Klanwatch Credibility" from THE
>> NEW AMERICAN at
>> <http://www.primenet.com/~tevans/newamerican/020695N2.html>]
>
>The New American is published by the John Birch Society. I sure hope you
>aren't trying to imply that they are a credible source, because they aren't.
I am stating that there is a diversity of opion regarding the SPLC.
-----snip promation of SPLC---------
>
>BTW why are you so adamant about defending the AFA?
Why are you so adamant about putting them down. I think they are a
good group and well respected within the Asatru communty. I know
Steve McNallen and respect him.
>Are you a member?
Nope.
>A member of some far right group, perhaps?
Nope. Not unless you count the local Boys & Girls Club.
>The John Birch Society reference makes me think you might be.
Sorry to disappoint. I will state I have no love for the left in
general nor "progressives" in particular.
Rich
humanmutt
Maqua wrote in message <36d5d...@204.83.142.253>...
I hope that the European Americans who read this will consider these
words, before they go to eat dirt.
Wesath eall hal,
Osric Wuldorleof
Thyle
I've tasted the Earth, eh? :) It's not bad.
Giggling,
Maqua, the laughing Bear
jAMES jONES
> > Ahh, but it does matter. If we saw things as they actually were, then many things
> > would take on a whole new level of difficulty. Could you imagine trying to do all
> > the stuff you do when you get up in the morning if you saw all of the visual
> > spectra, or even worse, if you saw things on an energy pattern basis. The illusion
> > is good, it helps quite a bit. But it also helps quite a bit to be able to peek
> > around the curtain from time to time to see what really is going on.
> >
> The name Usually doesn't matter--better? Be satisfied, I rarely
> compromise on issues like this, but you have a point and so do I. If
> you are coming to this thru a foundation of cerimonial magik, I might
> snicker at you, but try not to take it personally, and remember that I
> have only rudimentry math skills, when unaided by technology. Besides,
> playing with you is fun.
>
Actually, I came to this via quantum physics, brooding, and Eris. Oh, and some Jungian
psychology and various other freak ideologies thrown in for good measure.
> Our illusion of the everyday is a useful simplification. Lets agree on
> that, too. But it is like assigning a number quantity a letter to stand
> for what it might be, so we can get on with the business of the theory,
> before worrying about the concreteness and variation of actual
> computations that will change with contexts.
>
Oh, and yes, I agree with you there. And it is good to just settle and move on. We could
fill tons of bandwith with a debate on the "TRUE NATURE OF REALITY"(TM)
> > >
> >
> > Then you should be esp. frightenend, as I am heavily Taoist influenced. That and
> > Discordianism goes together like peanut butter and bananas.
> >
> Oops! I bet we share an aquaintance. Know a Pola? If you don't I know
> you'd like to. She'd take you on, and teach us all how to play. But I
> feel strongly that she might not approve of peanut butter and bananas.
> How bout ham n' eggs?
>
Hmm...Pola, no I don't. But my curiosity is aroused, though I must say it is disturbing
that she is a Anti-Elvis Heretic(you didn't recognize where peanut butter and banana comes
from? ;P). Oh well, compromise, ham n' eggs are ok, only if the eggs are green.
> > Yeah, but repetition is the best way to learn.
> >
> I don't know about you, but I only have to hit my hand with a hammer
> once, to know that I don't want to *that* again.
>
Learn MOST things, not all. Mileage may vary.
> > Oh, yeah, I learned a lot. For example, I learned that this whole genetic
> > spirtuality thing is in my case a buch of hoey. It works best for those who don't
> > want to rip reality apart and reassemble it into much more interesting patterns.
> > Which is OK, though collage work is so much fun. ;P
> >
>
> Yup definately one for Pola. Oh. She's my sister. Less live and let
> live much more live and let's destroy kind of person. She's a gas at a
> party.
>
Ohhh, this one's sounding better and better, though I prefer to destroy and rebuild my own
reality. It's mine, I can do what I want with it, so there, nyah. Oh, and I present
others with the option of learning how to play cut and paste with their own reality. It's
fun. Unfortunately it can get a bit lonely, as there aren't too many warpers of reality
out there, really. For some reason, most paths don't teach it to people unless they are
really high up. And usually when I bring it up, I always get "that look", you know, the
look that says, "You know more than you should, what are you evil boy?" But, such is
life. Besides, from talking with people who are in groups and have community, they can't
get much done as far as spiritual work goes because they are too busy dealing with other
mages. Go fig.
> > Oh, yeah, discernment. I was absent that day, sorry. I was also absent during the
> > prudence seminar and the workshop on how not to stumble into huge enclaves of high
> > wierdness on an almost daily basis.
> >
>
> One with discernment does not avoid weirdness, that would be no fun!
> But one with discernment knows how to have the most fun and get out with
> the least amount of shit left sticking to you. That's where the
> subtilty lies.
>
Yes, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Point taken, however.
> >
> > Aww, be nice to the OTO. They are one of the few groups that I can get along with
> > without having to shut down half of my frontal lobe. Actually, the film is from the
> > whole, "I know the horrible truth of the universe" type thing, you know, seeing the
> > infinite horror and what not.
> >
>
> Yup. Lovecraft. Cthulu theory-- the better you understand the (insert
> horrible truth here) the more disassociated form normal reality you will
> be. Ok, if you wanna buy it, that's your business. Like I said the art
> is in getting out of that stuff with the least amount of shit left
> sticking to YOU.
>
No thanks, I rented it for awhile, didn't like it, didn't match the look I was going for.
> >
> > Yeah, that would be the "Purloined Letter syndrome". The answer to the whole
> > question is simple, too simple. So simple in fact that I missed it completely on
> > several ocassions, and now that I have found it, well, I'm looking at a trip to
> > Disneyland. ;P
> >
>
> I'd say send us pictures, of you and Cthulu, at the happiest place on
> Earth, but too bad about that film on your eyes...
>
Oh, I can do that, even better, I will send you the most hideous picture of Cthulu I have
ever seen. Wait for it via e-mail. <snicker>
> > Oh, and sometimes being grim and brooding is good, just to mess with the minds of
> > everyone else, usually followed by dressing in pastel plaid the next day, or mix the
> > two. Fun!!!!!
> >
>
> I knew someone in pastel plaid once. She had pinkish hair, and avacado
> green trousers on with the pastel plaid coat. Yellow shirt underneath.
> Defiately a fashion DONT. Very scary. Traumatized me for life. But
> damn I stayed away form hair color, that's fer sure.
>
Yahhhh, Yes, do that at once. Go to that person, worship her. She is an inspired profit
of Eris Discordia and truly more advanced than either of us. Or maybe all of her taste is
in her mouth. Hard to say sometimes.
> > It is just such a hoot, I love it. Though I have yet to see anyone do something
> > like that for the Irish(I'm 1/4 Irish). I guess for spirituality we just fight,
> > talk pretty well and hate the English. ;P Oh, and I do a LOT of work with the Fair
> > Folk. If you want for me to talk your ear off, ask me about my theory of what the
> > Good People and changelings really are.
>
>
> Ok I rise to the bait. Tell me. Enquiring minds wanna know.
Ok, basic version. Long time ago there were a group of people in merry ol' Ireland, they
were to be called the Tuatha De Dannan, or TDD. The lived in Ireland long before anyone
else came there. They, over time, were displaced by the Celts(my ancestors). Now, when
they conquered, they also interbred, mingling the blood of the TDD with the Celts. Now,
the spirits of the TDD didn't really have a place to go, so they would either hang around
here, come back in a human body, or sometimes go to another place(this was very rare).
While this was happening the Celts semi-deified the TDD, considering them larger than life
after they had been conquered for about 4 generations or so. Now, from time to time,
someone would be born who had the traits of their TDD ancestors, these people, along with
children with birth defects, were considered changelings. And, as I am rather Irish, and
have little love for the religion of the Vikings, and a great love for all things of the
Fair Folk, then I consider myself a changeling. Voila, my theory + a particularly
eccentric part of my self identity.
James J.
heepst...@my-dejanews.com
Asatru and Volkism/Folkish, but it is also true that the AFA and their
fellow-travellers (Odinic Rite (BCM Runic), Odinist Fellowship, and most of
the Asatru Alliance) self-identify as Folkish. It is obvious (to me anyway)
that he is talking about the AFA and their allies here. Nobody else is going
around using a word like Folkish to describe themselves.
Rich
wrote:
>
> I've tasted the Earth, eh? :) It's not bad.
>
> Giggling,
>
> Maqua, the laughing Bear
>
Maqua you always make me giggle too. Thanks
Rich
pnutt...@nbe.au
sat upright rubbed their eyes and declared:
$Ahh, good Eristic jolt. I am now completely perplexed. Thank you.
You're welcome, but you are missing just a small portion of your
perplexity. Life is a dance. you just need to know your left foot
fromyour right and knowhow to count ot four.
$You get a smirk
$James J.
ohhh, I just love smirks Humour, as you well know is an absolute
requisette. and Hail, Eris.
$
$>
$>
$> Until you've tie yourself to a tree for nine nights and received
runic
$> visions while your inner eye links up/down Mirmir's well of wyrd
$> synchronicities and improbable imponderables... uhhh, this was
going
$> somewhere... but got lost in Cameron's Chapel Perilous of Titanic
waves
$> of Paranoooia Will Deeestrooooya, and it looks like this:
$
$
$
Bless,
DayaLi
day...@bigfoot.com
An Open and Critical Mind - THE antidote to Dogma Poisoning
===============================================================
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, ß227, any and all
nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download
and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of
these terms.
===============================================================
jAMES jONES
>
> You're welcome, but you are missing just a small portion of your
> perplexity. Life is a dance. you just need to know your left foot
> fromyour right and knowhow to count ot four.
>
Ahh, I will have to ponder over this for a time. But not too hard. Tea is good
for this one.
> ohhh, I just love smirks Humour, as you well know is an absolute
> requisette. and Hail, Eris.
>
Without humor you become a Greyface(AKA-Malcontent Hunchbrain), and I have met
Greyfaces before. You don't wanna go there.
Later
James J.
Enochian Plumbing
Speaking of Malcontent Hunchbrains with Greyfaces who eat Aliens on pressed rice
then borrow temporal singularity slingshot equipment from friends, and return said
equipment without cleaning it...
Alien Sushi wrote:
>
- - - --===|zzzsnipt!
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: breaking Planck Barrier
> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2004 12:19:15 +0000
- - - --===|zzzsnipt!
>
> 1 - surface of Compton Radius Vortex in our ordinary
> spacetime
>
> 2 - ring singularity in our ordinary region of spacetime
>
> 3 - ring singularity in repulsive gravity/negative distance
> region
>
> 4 - surface of Classical Radius Vortex in repulsive gravity/
> negative distance region
>
> My HyperDiamond Planck Scale Lattice stuff was NOT
> fundamental because it was at the smallest scale possible,
> but it IS fundamental because it is the Bridge Scale that
> connects Ordinary SpaceTime with Exotic SpaceTime.
>
> Accordingly, I have revised my web page at URL
>
> http://tony.ai/worm4holes.html
>
> and its mirror
>
> http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/worm4holes.html
- - - --===|zzzsnipt!
This is a dead end experiment in "parallel-universe-post-quantum-back-
action" that never really got off the ground.
It all goes back to an ancient beginning to this most recent of weekends,
whereupon I borrowed my "unstuck-in-time" friend's timeship, that is
itself borrowed from "The Greater Mystery". (Don't ask).
The timeship is about "52' feet in diameter and gun metal grey on the
outside with no door." According to my friend: in "'barrier systems'
it is surrounded by a drone computer ship about 1 1/2 miles long."
I haven't the slightest idea what that means, so I just had to take it
on faith that the thing would navigate thru the various "Light-Mach jumps"
intact. My strange friend says that we live in a 23 Light Mach system,
but to access other dimensions all one has to do is increase or decrease
one's own resonant spin. Allegedly, this ship does all that automatically,
(or so I was told). OKAYyyy....
Anyway, I ended up in 200 BC! Weird. Had to ask directions of this
really old, grey, long-haired, desert-magus-madman type of character.
Said his name was "Enoch". The computer had this on him:
"Very multifaceted, crystaline and hypercubic individual:
'Enoch', so-called 'seventh master of the world', mythic
equivalent of Phoenician Cadmus, Greek Hermes, Egyptian
Thoth, Quetzalcoatl of Mesoamerican myth..."
Enoch is thought to have penned the Kabbalah, Tarot and, natch' the
"Book of Enoch", wherein is described a supposed account of his
visit to the Dark Palace* (see below).
So, great! I figured this would be a good guy to get me out of there,
especially when he was describing all these cold fires, black flames
and other weird stuff from his apocalyptic visions that he just kept
rambling on and on about; I sorta inferred that he was talking about
little light-emitting diodes and electronic devices - things not in
his usual frame of reference, which he would have to approximate in
his wacked-out scholar's, desert-nomadic, socialized semantics way.
Sure, I could flow with that.
Anyway, my big time stupid error was in bringing him back with me.
The old dude is VERY senile, and he completely freaked out over the entire
indoor plumbing system. You would not believe it; especially the bathroom!
When he found out that we urinate and defecate in water wells, he lost it.
He thinks he's in Hell.
It's understandable. Here's a guy who has spent his entire life in the
desert -- you just don't piss in the water supply, ok? They tend to
cut your head off for stuff like that.
Anyway, his senility was too much for me, so I left him in the timeship
which I returned to my odd friend so he can deal with him. That was
yesterday. I won't even tell you about the alchemist. (At least I got
a lotta sun and exercise)
The Book of Enoch
Composit pseudepigraphic work, sometimes called
1st Enoch (unlike the 2nd -- Slavonic -- Enoch),
completely preserved only in Ethiopic (Ge`ez).
There are also two extensive fragments of the texts
in Greek found in Akhmim in 1886. In addition
several hundreds of Aramaic fragments were
discovered in Cave IV in Qumran in 1952.
This so called Book of Enoch is divisible into five
originally separate portions:
Book I (so called The Book of Watchers) Chapters 1 - 36
Introduction; contemplation of the nature;
descent of two hundreds angels to Earth --
they took human women for their wives,
begot children (giants), led mankind
astray but finally were destroyed by God;
Enoch's journeys in Heavens, Earth and
Underworld.
This may be the most ancient part of
the collection. Dated back to the 3rd
century B.C.
Book II (The Book of Parables) Chapters 37 - 71
Description of the days of the Last Judgement;
journey to Heaven; meeting with the Chosen One;
uncovering of all heavenly mysteries.
Dating of the book varies from the 1st half of the first century B.C.
to the end of the first century A.D.
Book III (The Astronomical Book) Chapters 72 - 82
Description of revolution of heavenly bodies that showed Uriel the
angel to Enoch.
Qumran fragments of this text are dated to the end of the 3rd of the
beginning of the 2nd century B.C. Existence of older Hebrew text is
possible but unsure.
Book IV (The Book of Dreams) Chapters 83 - 90
Vision of destruction of Earth; vision of world history from Adam to the
first days of heavenly Kingdom -- cattle, sheep and other animals
represent main characters and their features.
Aramaic fragments from Qumran corresponding to this texts are dated
to the third quarter of the 2nd century B.C.
Book V (The Epistle of Enoch) Chapters 91 - 108
Testament of Enoch; chapter 93:1 - 14 and
91:12 - 17 respectively -- so called
Apocalypse of the Ten Weeks describing
world history from the beginning the Last
Judgement and creation of new heavens.
Dated to the half of the 1st century BC.
It is not clear when exactly and from which sources
the Ethiopic translation was created. Most probably
both Aramaic and Greek versions were used;
influence (or even existence) of some Hebrew
vorlage was discussed but is still unclear.
* Meanwhile, in another realm of the old apocalyptic's
desert fried cranium:
"And I went in until I drew nigh to a wall which
is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire,
and it began to affright me. And I went into the tongues
of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built
of crystal.
The walls of the house were like a tesselated floor of
crystals, and its groundwork was of crystal.
Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the
lightenings, and between them were fiery Cherubim
amidst a background of water. A blazing fire surrounded
the walls, and its portals were covered with fire.
And I entered into that house, and it was as hot as
fire yet as cold as ice. There were no delights of
life therein. Fear covered me, and trembling gat hold
of me. And I quaked and trembled and fell down upon
my face.
[Enoch's further adventures continue, following his visit
to the Dark Palace]:
...From thence I went to another place to the west of
the Earth. And I saw a burning fire which ran without
resting, and paused not from its course day or night
but blazed without respite. And I asked, saying, "What
is this flame which burns unceasingly?" Then Raguel,
one of the holy Angels who was with me, said, "This
is the Dark Fire in the West which persecutes all the
luminaries of Heaven."
Later that same day, while wandering around some foothills,
a lost timeship stops to ask directions back to the late
20th century. Enoch, dumbfounded, wets himself, but at least
manages to point a shaky finger in the correct, general vicinity.
Quicker than a blink, the local universe shrinks to a dot,
disappears and expands elsewhen. Uncomfortably humid, Enoch
thinks up a cool new book idea.
jAMES jONES
> Speaking of Malcontent Hunchbrains with Greyfaces who eat Aliens on pressed rice
> then borrow temporal singularity slingshot equipment from friends, and return said
> equipment without cleaning it...
>
> OKAYyyy....
>
>
Thank you for summing up my reaction to the post. My brain now hurts. Well, as the
great Sry Sydasti says, "Tis an ill wind that blows no minds."
Later
James J.
Flora and Eric Floen
>
> > Speaking of Malcontent Hunchbrains with Greyfaces who eat Aliens on pressed rice
> > then borrow temporal singularity slingshot equipment from friends, and return said
> > equipment without cleaning it...
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> Thank you for summing up my reaction to the post. My brain now hurts. Well, as the
> great Sry Sydasti says, "Tis an ill wind that blows no minds."
>
> Later
> James J
<LOL>
F
Flora and Eric Floen
2 cup tiz wiz (weanling formula) milk pellets
1tsp MSM
2T Grand Flex
1cup Healthy Glo rice bran with corn oil
1 quart alfalfa and molassas (your favorite brand here)
And according to the Big Boss Nutrition Czar at Keenridge, where Olympic
athletes come from, this is the best feed possible for a growing active
mind (as long as you weigh in the neighborhood of eight to nine hundred,
fifty pounds)
I usually take a handfull, after i mix the feed up, and give the rest to
Frea or NITA. Hopefully it will make my hooves grow strong, help my
mane grow long and shiny, and give me all the vitamins the rest of my
diet can't supply, for a healthy coat and optimum performance in the
ring or out of it.
FLORA
pnutt...@nbe.au wrote:
>
> On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:42:24 -0600, "humanmutt"
> <huma...@athomeindesert.com> sat upright rubbed their eyes and
> declared:
>
> $Purina Puppy Chow with sugar and milk for me please.
>
> I prefer 9 LIves myself, sprinkled with bird feed. . .
>
> $
> $
> $Maqua wrote in message <36d5d...@204.83.142.253>...
> $
> $ I hope that the European Americans who read this will consider
> these
> $words, before they go to eat dirt.
> $
> $ Wesath eall hal,
> $
> $ Osric Wuldorleof
> $ Thyle
> $
> $
> $
> $ I've tasted the Earth, eh? :) It's not bad.
> $
> $ Giggling,
> $
> $ Maqua, the laughing Bear
> $
> $
Shiva Pixel Mold
Döctör President Jölaf WhöleFrager PB&J wröte:
- - - - -===|Ozzzsniptchk!
>
> The Elder Göds, themselves sleeping and ötherwise helpless in their
> dimensiönless Dömain öf Döörs, exert a great *intentiön* that we töö
> stay "asleep." The human will, all töö happy tö help with this,
> dönates its energy and its *expectatiöns*, and fröm these *söme* öf
> the UFOs are built.
>
> If yöu have great pöwers öf cöncentratiön, and yöu begin tö think öf a
> fictitiöus persön as if he existed, in all the detail öf a real
> persön, that "persön" ör the bödily image öf it may materialize sö
> sölidly that yöu can't get *rid* öf it. This almöst never happens in
> America because it is nöt *expected*. It happens in Tibet a great deal
> and the ambulatöry, externalized hallucinatiöns that föllöw lamas
> aböut are called *tulpas*
>
> UFOs are uber-tulpas.
>
> fröm "The Böök öf the SubGenius"
> McGraw-Hill
> ISBN 0-07-062229-9
>
> Think aböut it.
>
> signed,
>
> Döctör President Jölaf WhöleFrager PB&J
Ms. Bardö the chaufeur thöught:
"I like tö wiggle my Nö.2 pencil between my förefinger
and thumb in such a way that it appears as if it is made
öut öf rubber. Götta gö nöw; the're letting me öut öntö
the gröunds töday tö pet the llamas. I'm sö excited!"
But first...
A few quötes fröm Dr. Ornstein:
"Each örganism's sensöry system simplifies the wörld.
Human beings see cölörs. Cölör, heat, and söunds are
internal brain pröcesses, nöt external reality. The
brain just gets ön with its jöb in möst cases withöut
cömplex calculatiön ör tröuble. Cölör is given, söund
is given, taste is given, pain is given. We have nö
alternative. The senses are interested in when
sömething new happens. It is a cömplicated mess in
there, but öne which underlies öur ability tö respönd
tö a few impörtant dimensiöns öf the öutside wörld.
Instead öf a cömplete view öf the external wörld,
which is sömehöw mirröred within the mind, we ströngly
select a small part öf it and gö överböard aböut it.
We pössess physical blind spöts in the retina, the place
where the ganglia feed the nerve circuits tö the brain.
Söme öf these reflect the general örganizatiön öf the mind
(mind yöu nöt brain): the need tö respönd tö new events, tö
search öut changes, tö cömpare införmatiön and tö böil things
döwn tö a small pöint. The center pöint öf the internal
"cömmanding self" part öf the brain is anöther primitive
actiön system, öne which öther förces cannöt usually
överride -- emötiön. We can learn and gröw fröm experiences,
and cönsciöus cöntröl can mödify ineffective tendencies.
But we are saying that möst öften and möst reliably,
especially in eras löng göne, feeling öur way thröugh
wörked best."
Einstein's definitiön öf madness:
Endlessly repeating the same actiöns while höping för different results.
Meanwhile, sömething cattywhumpus this way came:
I never identify my cöre ör self-validatiön systems with
anything that my öptic nerves and articulated appendages
may cöncöct. I have söciöbiölögical leanings and disavöw
all my earthly manifestatiöns. That's why I'm always
saying tö my -1G propellantless orb riding Grey friend:
"Dude, this game öf liar's dice is getting hairy,
especially driving thru this förest öf randömly
falling trees during such a fierce störm. Maybe
we shöuld get the chaufeur's ears checked - she
might be deaf."
It never ceases tö amaze us
höw she manages tö avert
sö many öbstacles.
Praise Kali and Her Many Sisters!!
pnutt...@nbe.au
sat upright rubbed their eyes and declared:
$> $Ahh, good Eristic jolt. I am now completely perplexed. Thank
you.
$>
$> You're welcome, but you are missing just a small portion of your
$> perplexity. Life is a dance. you just need to know your left
foot
$> fromyour right and knowhow to count ot four.
$>
$
$Ahh, I will have to ponder over this for a time. But not too hard.
Tea is good
$for this one.
Earl Grey or Oo-Long?
$
$> ohhh, I just love smirks Humour, as you well know is an absolute
$> requisette. and Hail, Eris.
$>
$
$Without humor you become a Greyface(AKA-Malcontent Hunchbrain), and I
have met
$Greyfaces before. You don't wanna go there.
Too true - without Humor, you die.
$
$Later
$James J.
$
$
how much later?
Flora and Eric Floen
>
> Enochian Plumbing wrote:
> > >
> > > jAMES jONES wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > $Ahh, good Eristic jolt. I am now completely perplexed. Thank you.
> > > > >
-----------------<snip!>--------------------------
Sounds like a perfect description of the usual Garden-variety American
Codependancy. I guess that's what separates the squck studies from the
slow-learners today.
>
> Meanwhile, sömething cattywhumpus this way came:
>
> I never identify my cöre ör self-validatiön systems with
> anything that my öptic nerves and articulated appendages
> may cöncöct. I have söciöbiölögical leanings and disavöw
> all my earthly manifestatiöns. That's why I'm always
> saying tö my -1G propellantless orb riding Grey friend:
>
> "Dude, this game öf liar's dice is getting hairy,
> especially driving thru this förest öf randömly
> falling trees during such a fierce störm. Maybe
> we shöuld get the chaufeur's ears checked - she
> might be deaf."
>
> It never ceases tö amaze us
> höw she manages tö avert
> sö many öbstacles.
>
> Praise Kali and Her Many Sisters!!
Jai Kali-Ma!
Jai Tarini!
Jai Kalika!
JAI TARE!
Om Tare Tuttari Ture Soha
or if you prefer:
Yah baby that was cool, but your diety and mine intersect in a couple of
places, so I'll honor her, too today.
Blessings, and may Kali-Ma's winds of change always blow good things
your way,
FLORA
wanderer
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
What can i say other than, wow ?
I must say, James Jones, that your words have struck a chord in me....
on behalf of the entire spiritual community, i thank you for your
gracefully enlightening words.... Possibly these words can open other
hearts and minds... Certainly they have opened mine, and maybe others
who are on the first steps of the PATH.
With Love,
patrick....
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
In article <36D4D0DA...@bellsouth.net>, jAMES jONES
jAMES jONES
> $Ahh, I will have to ponder over this for a time. But not too hard.
> Tea is good
> $for this one.
>
> Earl Grey or Oo-Long?
>
Neither, either Sweetgrass or Rosehip. Probibly Rosehips, as I am just so hip.
;P
> Too true - without Humor, you die.
>
Yeah, and having a dead soul just is no fun at all.
> $
> $Later
> $James J.
> $
> $
>
> how much later?
> Bless,
> DayaLi
> day...@bigfoot.com
>
Later than now, earlier than later than then.
James J.
pnutt...@nbe.au
declared:
$Purina Puppy Chow with sugar and milk for me please.
Bless,
jAMES jONES
summoning for European-Americans to all become Asatru, and it is now a thread on
enlightenment and wierd happy chaos stuff. I think I'm going to cry, this is just so
beautiful. ;P
Hail Eris!!!!
James J.
Hnikar
> >In article <36d39110...@news.cwo.com>,
> > sea_...@orland.net (Rich) wrote:
> >
the AFA is "fer sure" bad news, having a rightist political and
> >> >white separatist racial orientation & some outright connections of some of
> >> >its members to neo-Nazi and even Satanist groups.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was a member of the Asatru Free Assembly, and I am a member of the
Asatru Folk Assembly. There are many things which attracted me to the
AFA. Among these is that membership is based only on the religion of
Asatru. There are no PC police demanding that one think as they do on
social issues. There are no dogmatists of the left or the right telling
one what one may say or when one may say it. No one picks apart and
reconstructs one's words to determine if you are "in line" or
"out-of-line". We are simply Asatruar, freely united in kinship and in
our honoring of the living ancestral gods.
Freedom is not something I am willing to sacrifice for any organization,
and the AFA wouldn't have it any other way.
Those who do enforce conformity in their organizations (and this is
directed to no one who has posted in this thread), often seek therefore
to find someone in the AFA with whose non-religious beliefs they
disagree and present it as the viewpoint of the AFA as a whole. Such
people cannot conceive of a free organization which encompasses a very
wide spectrum of people, because their own view, their own perspective,
and their own organizations are so closed and narrow.
If someone has a problem with extreme libertarianism, quite close to
anarchism, they could point a finger and say, "Hnikar is an anarchist
and a member of the AFA, therefore the AFA is anarchist. Kropotkin and
Freyja, Malatesta and Skadi, hand in hand." It would't be true, of
course, because the AFA's raison d'etre is religion. But such is the
pseudo-logic toward which the narrow-minded and censorial are inclined
(and if money were to made in creating such scare tactics about my
beliefs, you can bet they'd be lined up and Steve McNallen would have
his hands full trying to convince people that the AFA doesn't own a
black flag).
AFA members are a diverse lot of free individuals. Though we may disagree
about just about everything else, we find that the AFA reflects our religious
viewpoint.
Hnikar
AOR/AFA/Raven Kindred (Asatru Alliance)
Hni...@dock.net or Cr...@webtv.net
Hnikar's Folkish Asatru Page:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5056/ (including Odin's Nation
News)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hnikar
"Even more detailed specifics about the AFA can be found in the Coalition for
>Human Dignity article that was floating around Usenet a while back. Check
>DejaNews for the 'Steve McNallen & RuneStone' article..."
The CHUD piece was an amateurish hatchet job by dogmatists with an agenda to
promote. Sophomoric insinuation, at best. My response may be found at...
http://x15.dejanews.com/=gh/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=428090410&CONTEXT=9206967
91. 332791895&hitnum=0
Hail the Aesir and Vanir,
Hnikar
AOR/AFA/Raven Kindred (Asatru Alliance)
Odin's Nation News
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5056/