Shamanism and politics
sb
wins elections?
bosco
> Do the spirits care about politics? Do they express opinions regarding who
> wins elections?
I have never heard anything political coming from them. I met
Strawberry once, and Strawberry expressed concern that he had worked
thousands of years making a good food for us humans, and 'up there'
were doing something to make it not so good. That's as close to
political as I have ever encountered.
Randgrithr
> Do the spirits care about politics? Do they express opinions regarding who
> wins elections?
Any look at the historical role of the shaman in their community will
have them interacting with tribal and group leaders. The role of the
shaman is to see it that both community in this world and spirits in
the otherworld are served, as well as the nuturing of the living land
that links the two. To pretend that the shaman has no political
concerns in this world when dealing with the spirits in the other, is
to pretend to be a shaman.
And incidentally, spirits occasionally have their own groups and
politics - for good or ill.
Randgrithr
bosco
Perhaps I am not understanding what you are saying? For example, if
someone's political concerns in this world are for the most part
invisible, isn't it doubtful they would have an political concerns in
another realm? It would seem likely that they would select their peer
group, allies and potential enemies by qualities other than political
affiliation in any realms they travel?
If what I read of your thoughts is what I understand, that would mean
to be overly simplistic that a modern day Shaman would only be
interested in helping someone from their own political party or aligned
with their political beliefs . That does not seem appropriate for the
Shaman of old we tend to place up on a pedestal?
Political affiliation should not make one any less effective in their
ability to accomplish their task in this or any other realm, unless
that task is a political one. Of course I can see your point if a tribe
that is politically separated, that a Shaman of old would have to
decide where the bread is buttered best.
I agree with your thought that a Shaman of the past would be involved
with the interaction of their tribe or social group, but I would see it
more as an interaction rather than politics. Perhaps is is a difference
in semantics, or a lack of understanding on my part.
Randgrithr
> On 2008-03-28 09:01:28 -0600, Randgrithr <randgri...@gmail.com> said:
>
> Perhaps I am not understanding what you are saying? For example, if
> someone's political concerns in this world are for the most part
> invisible, isn't it doubtful they would have an political concerns in
> another realm? It would seem likely that they would select their peer
> group, allies and potential enemies by qualities other than political
> affiliation in any realms they travel?
You ascribe the parameters for community to other things than
politics.
Not all people do. Not all spirits do, either.
Politics determine community as much as any other qualities.
> If what I read of your thoughts is what I understand, that would mean
> to be overly simplistic that a modern day Shaman would only be
> interested in helping someone from their own political party or aligned
> with their political beliefs . That does not seem appropriate for the
> Shaman of old we tend to place up on a pedestal?
Actually, it is MORE appropriate for the "shamans of old", when the
world was a larger place and filled with much more cultural and
spiritual diversity than it is now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacral_king
The mixture of religious belief and politics has been going on for
millenia.
Mind you, I'm not saying that it's good - I personally believe that
the separation of church and state is a good thing - but it very much
is a shamanic tradition and a shamanic reality that persists today in
the minds of many practitioners.
In my opinion, it's also a problem (and a VERY big one), but that part
of it is simply my opinion. Another part of the problem is we've
become so USED to a separation of church and state in this country -
we have come to take it so much for granted, that people like yourself
are actually surprised this is still happening at all.
Randgrithr
Randgrithr
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacral_king
>
> The mixture of religious belief and politics has been going on for
> millenia.
>
> Mind you, I'm not saying that it's good - I personally believe that
> the separation of church and state is a good thing - but it very much
> is a shamanic tradition and a shamanic reality that persists today in
> the minds of many practitioners.
>
> In my opinion, it's also a problem (and a VERY big one), but that part
> of it is simply my opinion. Another part of the problem is we've
> become so USED to a separation of church and state in this country -
> we have come to take it so much for granted, that people like yourself
> are actually surprised this is still happening at all.
And to add to my own post, if you don't believe that a VERY bad, VERY
sick amount of this BS is going on right here, right now, in this day
and age, and that it is directly affecting the spiritual health of our
nation and our world, then you need to go here and read this and watch
the videos.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/30/82321/2396/689/486448
Randgrithr
bosco
Thanks for taking the time to reply, I understand your points now.
Ben