The harassment of Bob Minton
Patty Pieniadz
The Church was fairly convinced that Bob was a PDH'd
{http://www.scientology.org/en_US/feature/glossary/#p} psych case
(someone that's been treated by a psychiatrist) that was somehow
involved in a conspiracy and given millions to destroy Scientology.
Per LRH policy, Minton must have some very serious "crimes" to be so
critical of Scientology and it was OSA's responsibility to find and
expose those "crimes" and shut him up.
They would never believe for a moment that Bob was just a rich guy
with a cause he could sink his teeth into. That didn't fit in with
their paranoid world view and so the Church of Scientology went after
Bob Minton with everything they had.
I was an OSA invest volunteer during Bob Minton's "Reign of Terror" on
the church and I'm not going to discuss the pro's and con's of Bob
Minton, but rather my participation in harassing him for the Church of
Scientology.
I was not a rogue agent of the Church and only did things upon their
orders and instructions. As an OSA volunteer, I had a rather high
security clearance and was very trusted to follow orders and keep my
mouth shut. In order to obtain the security clearance I had to have
certain qualifications including giving them my full life history
{http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/history3.htm}
Orders for specific "handlings" on Bob Minton would come down the
command channels from OSA Int (International) to Mary Francis Newey,
(MF) who was the Dir of Investigations for OSA Boston. MF would call
me in and we would discuss what was needed by her seniors at OSA Int
and go over the plans to accomplish these. MF always to the time to
get my agreement and plan out exactly how we would proceed. MF's
immediate superior was a man at OSA Int named Neil Riley. She would
refer to him as Mr. Riley.
Due to Bob Minton's status as number the # 1 SP on the planet, he was
given a full 24/7 coverage by OSA, their staff, their hired PI's and
OSA Volunteers.
OSA had to know his every move, I was not privy to all the information
on Bob or who they were using as insiders to collect information. But
I can tell you that when he was in the Boston/New Hampshire area, it
was a time when OSA Boston would drop everything and made sure they
knew his whereabouts every minute of the day. They followed him and
would know or find out who he was meeting with, and used this
information to further harass him. Maureen O'Keefe the current Dir of
Invest Boston Org (2004 to present -2006) told me many stories of her
direct dealings with Bob Minton and in 2001 or 2002, Maureen told me
that over 80 staff had been moved from OSA Int to OSA Flag in
Clearwater to deal with Bob Minton and the LMT
http://lisatrust.bogie.nl/}. I'll be discussing Maureen O'Keefe and
her activities in another report.
There is a timeline of harassment on Bob Minton located here:
http://www.fairgamed.org/minton.htm
I was involved in this particular entry:
February 1998: While Mr. Minton was vacationing with his family on the
French Caribbean island of St. Bart's, Scientology operatives flew to
the island and passed out fliers in the town and on the beach where
Mr. Minton and his family were relaxing. The flier contained a number
of scurrilous charges, including a claim that Mr. Minton associated
with "accused child molesters."
I was contacted by OSA to help with this one. The "op" was finding
out exactly where Bob Minton was located.
I remember getting a phone call from Mary Frances, the then Dir of
Invest, Boston OSA. She explained that they had "lost track" of Bob
and she had orders to find him. She knew he was somewhere in the
Caribbean but had to know exactly where he was. As always, this was a
priority cycle and had to be done right away.
When doing an Op for OSA, the procedure it to discuss what needs to be
done and then concoct schemes to get the information. LRH called this
"flair"
In I was told by the DSA Boston Tony Chrambanis, that I had "flair"
and that this was why I was good at doing Ops for them.
MF had Bob's travel agent's contact information and instructed me to
contact her and schmooze her into giving me Bob's location.
As always MF and I drilled out or role played the conversation I would
have with the travel agent first and work out all the kinks and had
"my story" all worked out in advance so that I would sound natural.
I made the call to the travel agent. OSA already knew her name and
number because they knew everyone that Bob and his wife were in
contact with.
As per the drill I did with MF, I explained to the travel agent that
Therese Minton was a good friend of mine and that she had told me all
about this wonderful getaway in the Caribbean and I convinced my
husband to take me there as an anniversary gift. So.. would she
please tell me the location of this place so I could make reservation
with her.
Well of course the travel agent is going to give me the information.
She sees this as a sale, and not as a creepy op being run on her by an
evil cult. I mean come on! Who is going to believe something like
that? Most people would never imagine such going's on and
Scientology was counting on people being oblivious to ops.
Of course based on the Church policy of "need to know" I had no idea
how OSA knew that Bob was in the Caribbean. The Intel or Invest
Branch of the Church operates on a "need to know" basis and so I was
not given those kinds of details.
So Bob Minton, if you still read critical websites, you now know how
they found you on St. Bart's.
I'm going to save my apology to you and your family until the end,
because I have more to tell you.
I was once asked to intercept Bob at Logan airport in Boston and make
sure he got on a specific flight to Clearwater. I would say this was
some time in the summer of 98 or 99. He was not supposed to know I
was watching him, and I doubt he figured it out as I am a very
unassuming looking woman. I blend in very well. I arrived at Logan
airport a good half hour before he arrived. I was already sitting in
the departure area, reading a magazine, waiting for him. He sat down
and I could clearly see him but I just kept reading my mag and eating
my chowder from the Legal Seafood kiosk.
I caught him looking around to see if he could spot someone he knew
but we had never met prior to this and I made sure I did not make eye
contact with him. I had my eyes mostly on the chowder. ;-)
I waited until Bob boarded the plan and then I left. When I got
outside the airport I called OSA Boston (phone #) and Gerard Renna the
DSA Boston at that time answered the phone.
I told Gerard that Bob had boarded the plane and Gerard wanted to know
if I saw the plane take off with "Bob Minton" in it. I said, no, I
had not stayed long enough to see the plane depart as I had to get
home and Gerard was upset with me for not doing the job to a "Done".
Gerard was also concerned that he was going to get his ass reamed due
to my error, because if Bob Minton didn't get off that plane, in
Clearwater, at the expected time, then Gerard's ass was going to be
grass. Mowed grass and Flag was the lawnmower.
I guess he stayed on the plane and arrived in Clearwater as expected,
because I never heard another word about it.
I've written another article about "The D line" or trash stealing tech
and will admit to stealing trash in front of Bob and Therese Minton's
house on Beacon Hill in Boston. The Minton trash was always of
interest to OSA, even if Bob hadn't been to the house in months. It
didn't matter to them that Bob wasn't around because they figured
Therese might be more likely to be slipshod with the paper work and
they could get lots of info from her trash.
Stealing trash from Therese and Bob Minton's house was done exactly
the same way as stealing Steve Hassan's trash. After all, I was a
Scientologist and didn't squirrel the tech.
I'm sorry to say I don't remember a lot of specifics of what was in
Therese Minton's trash, but I do remember there were empty envelope's
with return addresses and these were used to further investigate the
family and any connections they had in an attempt to harass Bob and
his family.
Too Vicious Even For Me
One day (1998/1999) MF called me up and said she needed a favor. A
favor was the term she used to mean she wanted me to do some dirty
work for OSA.
When it was a particularly nasty deed, I would have to go to a store
and buy a calling card, go to a phone booth and call a phone booth
number that MF provided for me. She would be waiting at the phone
booth at a designated time so we could talk and not have our
conversation traced in any way.
At this time, Bob Minton was living separately from his wife Therese.
Therese lived in their home on Beacon Hill in Boston, while Bob lived
both in New Hampshire and Clearwater. Bob was also having an open
affair with an ex-Scientologist named Stacy Brooks.
The Church wanted to try to turn Therese Minton against her husband.
Therese already knew about the Minton/Brooks affair but Therese was
not openly hostile to Bob nor was she interested in giving the Church
any ammunition to use against her husband.
MF explained to me that someone at OSA Int had the idea that an
anonymous phone call should be made to Therese Minton to tell her that
while she was away on vacation to England, visiting her family, that
Bob stayed in the Beacon Hill house (Therese's house) and brought his
slutty girlfriend, Stacy Brooks with him. The idea was to pretend to
be a friend of Therese's that cared that she was being treated so
shabbily by Bob by bringing his mistress into her home where she and
her children lived.
The Church wanted to do this because they wanted Therese to turn
against Bob and give them all the dirt she knew about Bob so they
could forever silence him from criticizing Scientology.
I thought about it but told MF I couldn't do it. I thought it was
going too far and that Therese Minton was not attacking Scientology
and was an innocent victim in this battle and I refused to take part
in it.
MF told me she understood and dropped the subject. I don't know if
this Op was carried out or not. OSA had me do all kind of nasty
covert stuff for them but fortunately, I drew the line on that one.
A Really Dumb Caper
Within a few days of the LMT (Lisa McPherson Trust) opening their
doors, I got a call from MF saying she had for another task for me to
do.
Per MF, Bob Minton and his group of SP's had opened up some sort of
group in downtown Clearwater in order to continue his harrassment and
attacks on Scientology. I remember thinking it was a pretty ballsy
move at the time.
MF said she had orders from OSA Int to "tie up the phone lines" at
LMT. My instructions were to call LMT with a story that a relative of
mine was in some sort of cult. I was not to say Scientology, as that
would be repeating the enemy line, so I had to use some other "known
cult". I was to call and just talk, talk, talk about it and try to
tie up their phone lines. If I was asked how I heard about the LMT, I
would say that a friend of mine reads the internet and I got the
information from her.
I had to make this call by first purchasing a calling card that they
sell in the convenience stores and then go to a phone booth to make
the call virtually untraceable to me.
I remember thinking this was a really dumb idea and didn't see the
purpose of it, but like many things in Scientology, someone gets a
"bright idea" and it's off to the races, wasting everyone's time, and
resources to get something really dumb accomplished.
OSA operates just like terrorist cells in that one person does not
know what the others were doing.
You just had to trust that this was the most ethical group on the
planet and you did what you were told because they were doing this to
help Scientology.
Apology to Robert and Therese Minton and their children.
I was a dedicated Scientology for almost 30 years and when they
convinced me that there were SP's out to destroy Scientology that at
time I felt I was doing an ethical and brave thing. Of course, in
retrospect, when I realized Bob was just speaking out against what he
saw were abuses by Scientology, I was filled with shame and regret for
my actions.
I know it's a bit too late and the damage has already been done, but I
do sincerely apologize for any and all actions I may have performed
while in the employ or as a volunteer for the Church of Scientology.
I can try to justify my actions a thousand different ways, but none of
that really matters to me now. What I did was despicable and my
exposing this vile cult is my amends. By writing this information
and getting it webbed, I may be putting myself and my family in harms
way, but this is my way of setting things right and hope this
information will someday be useful to others that are being attacked
by the Church of Scientology.
bb
. What I did was despicable and my
exposing this vile cult is my amends. By writing this information
and getting it webbed, I may be putting myself and my family in harms
way, but this is my way of setting things right and hope this
information will someday be useful to others that are being attacked
by the Church of Scientology.
What ever you may or may not have done that is wrong, its
clear you are motivated to do what is best.
If you are in need of forgiveness, you have it from me. :)
Michael Greenberg
Amazing courage Patty. You did the right thing.
Mike
Bode Brausnan
<ppienia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For a while, Bob Minton was number one on Scientology's enemies list.
>
> The Church was fairly convinced that Bob was a PDH'd
Did you really believe Scientology was a "church?"
Do you now believe Scientology is a "church?"
Larry T.
news:4406...@news2.lightlink.com...
Paulette Cooper BY FAR is the title holder.
--
http://mysite.verizon.net/toomajan
Larry
Warrior
>
>For a while, Bob Minton was number one on Scientology's enemies list.
>
>The Church was fairly convinced that Bob was a PDH'd
>{http://www.scientology.org/en_US/feature/glossary/#p} psych case
>(someone that's been treated by a psychiatrist) that was somehow
>involved in a conspiracy and given millions to destroy Scientology.
>Per LRH policy, Minton must have some very serious "crimes" to be so
>critical of Scientology and it was OSA's responsibility to find and
>expose those "crimes" and shut him up.
>
>They would never believe for a moment that Bob was just a rich guy
>with a cause he could sink his teeth into. That didn't fit in with
>their paranoid world view and so the Church of Scientology went after
>Bob Minton with everything they had.
>
>I was an OSA invest volunteer during Bob Minton's "Reign of Terror" on
>the church and I'm not going to discuss the pro's and con's of Bob
>Minton, but rather my participation in harassing him for the Church of
>Scientology.
>
>I was not a rogue agent of the Church and only did things upon their
>orders and instructions. As an OSA volunteer, I had a rather high
>security clearance and was very trusted to follow orders and keep my
>mouth shut. In order to obtain the security clearance I had to have
>certain qualifications including giving them my full life history
>{ http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/history3.htm }
The same Life History questionnaire is webbed here:
http://warrior.xenu.ca/1997-0820.html
Thanks, Patty. Have you given thought to apologizing to
Bob and Therese personally? I have their contact info if
you need it.
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
"Scientology: it's about deception."
http://warrior.xenu.ca
Tawnya Fondren
What color did you decide to use in your home renovation? All things
considered, French tarragon probably works well for you, with a splash
of Austrian gray.
You surely are kind, too; a surely kind of kind.
Quaoar
> Patty,
>
> What color did you decide to use in your home renovation? All things
> considered, French tarragon probably works well for you, with a splash
> of Austrian gray.
>
> You surely are kind, too; a surely kind of kind.
>
You have hung a sign about your neck reading "I'm a product of a $cientology
education". Do you have any idea whatsoever what you wrote versus what
you intended to write? I thought not.
Q
Mark Bunker
do. I appreciate especially hearing about the tactics used against the
LMT.
Do you have any other details?
Michael Pattinson
about OSA;s vile ops and the sneaky criminal tactics of this "tax
exempt" pseudo-religion.
The value of this kind of expose is enormous.
Did you, by any chance, hear anything on OSA's tactics against myself
or Graham Berry?
Anyway, I look forward to reading more of your truths revealed...
Very Best Wishes
Michael Pattinson
mpattinson at gmail dot com
lynnfarny
Do NOT interview her for Google Video!
Lynn Farny
roger gonnet
"Patty Pieniadz" <ppienia...@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
46miahF...@individual.net...
> For a while, Bob Minton was number one on Scientology's enemies list.
Ow girl, it's great to learn some of the details of the tricks performed by the
clams against Bob and family for years. Thanks for explaining these.
It's more than passionating, and I presume it's also great to have to apologize
ate the same time as explaining one's own "overts" and crimes performed on
orders of the crime cult idiots who can't imagine that their schemes won't ever
become credible, since their "time track" is so full of millions of such overts,
lies and MWHs that they can't possibly ever appear "snow white" to anyone, even
to themselves.
That's the price they have to pay.
Besides, telling your parts in it is probably one of the best therapies to get
rid of the weight of cultic indoctrinations.
r
Keith Henson
<ppienia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>For a while, Bob Minton was number one on Scientology's enemies list.
snip
Snip
Wow. Some story Patty, really appreciate your telling it from an
inside view. Never doubted it was happening at the time. Even the
FBI would be oblivious to ops of this sort.
I doubt scn used regular members to go after judges, but eventually
one or more of the OSA ops will come out and verify what Jesse Prince
said about corrupting judges through pressure on their friends and
family.
snip
>Apology to Robert and Therese Minton and their children.
>
>I was a dedicated Scientology for almost 30 years and when they
>convinced me that there were SP's out to destroy Scientology that at
>time I felt I was doing an ethical and brave thing. Of course, in
>retrospect, when I realized Bob was just speaking out against what he
>saw were abuses by Scientology, I was filled with shame and regret for
>my actions.
>
>I know it's a bit too late and the damage has already been done, but I
>do sincerely apologize for any and all actions I may have performed
>while in the employ or as a volunteer for the Church of Scientology.
>I can try to justify my actions a thousand different ways, but none of
>that really matters to me now. What I did was despicable and my
>exposing this vile cult is my amends. By writing this information
>and getting it webbed, I may be putting myself and my family in harms
>way, but this is my way of setting things right and hope this
>information will someday be useful to others that are being attacked
>by the Church of Scientology.
>
It may indeed be useful, and sooner rather than later.
Thanks very much
Keith Henson
barbz
> Patty,
>
> What color did you decide to use in your home renovation? All things
> considered, French tarragon probably works well for you, with a splash
> of Austrian gray.
>
> You surely are kind, too; a surely kind of kind.
>
Boogabooga, "We're watching you!"
--
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser
Chip Gallo
These revelations about Scientology, Inc. tactics should cause any
thinking person to ask, "why would a church ever stoop to such
measures?" Of course the answer is that their operation is a church in
name only.
Thanks, Patty, for your thoughtful words. I'll take a dozen chocolate cake.
Chip Gallo
Knowing How to Know is Knowing Where to Go:
http://groups.myspace.com/scngoodbadugly
scngoodbadug...@yahoogroups.com
http://www.lermanet.com/tomgorman/tommygorman.htm
http://www.xenu.net/
http://www.xenuTV.com
http://www.lermanet.com
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
http://whyaretheydead.net/
http://alley.ethercat.com/cgi-bin/door/door.cgi?11
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/index.html
http://www.torymagoo.org/
Android Cat
> Tawnya Fondren wrote:
>> Patty,
>>
>> What color did you decide to use in your home renovation? All things
>> considered, French tarragon probably works well for you, with a
>> splash of Austrian gray.
>>
>> You surely are kind, too; a surely kind of kind.
>>
> Hahahaha! More Supidology! Hey Patty, she's trying to tell you
> something. Boogabooga, "We're watching you!"
It'd be quite fun to set up a counter-lurk on the watchers. If the next
time they went to move Tory's turtle, they found a note under it saying
"Smile!", I sure the *flash-photos* would be priceless! And a simple
lo-jack type tracking transmitter for magnetic attachment to the bottom of
cars wouldn't be hard. (A fancy one with GPS would be too expensive to
waste on them.) Attaching it without being seen would be fairly simple if
they're going to park for hours at a time repeated over a number of days.
In this day of Internet, computers, wireless webcams and other toys, their
stone-age tactics are going to get them badly burnt one day soon.
Think of the video of Peter "droopy drawers" Ramsay, and multiply by a
considerable pucker factor. (Add sound and colour too--but NO
smell-o-vision!)
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/mirror/xenu.ca/multimedia/peter_ramsay_01.ram
--
Ron of that ilk.
Zinj
@hotmail.com says...
Speaking of 'smell-o-vision'; kitty litter wrapped bank 'dye bombs' in
the trash = smelly blue courserooms.
Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think
Magoo
"Warrior" <war...@xenu.ca> wrote in message
news:151264329.000...@drn.newsguy.com...
Patty....
Thank you so very much for posting all of this information!
I remember well the fear I felt when I first left, and told my OSA Int Top
Secret Internet Mafia story......I truly was scared for my life, but found
great relief doing just what you're doing. It's the best, as once you've
woken up, you're making it public. Congratulations on your courage, and
helping way more people than you can imagine.
I remember apologizing to Bob Minton, as I started the "Bob must be paid by
the psychs". My theory was this: "I grew up around people with money, and no
one would throw away that much money....he ~must~ be getting paid by the
psychs". I was dead wrong.
Once I left, I told Bob Minton I was very sorry, and here's what he said to
me:
"Tory, you can tell me you're sorry...........and that you were just being a
good Scientologist, but here's how I feel: You did what you did,
and only you can take full responsibility for that, period".
I never forgot that, and although strong, it's quite true. If you ever saw
"A Few Good Men", in the end the one army guy says, "We were just following
orders! We didn't do anything wrong" (Which I Know you're not saying,
Patty!). But it's a similar point Bob was making to me: His partner says:
"Yes we did...............we were supposed to protect the weak and we didn't
do our jobs". (paraphrase)
To any and all Scientologists reading this: Scientology ~~does~~get people
there like Joel Phillips to do HORRIBLE things like posting endless lies
about people, and has him say "It's my site". To him, it's "No big deal". It
IS a big deal...................and don't you forget it.
Don't do their dirty work. Say, "No...I won't do that", as thank God Patty
did above, for her own sake as well as Minton's wife. The more people that
actually keep their personal integrity in, and don't act as floormats, the
more exposure of the truth shall occur, and the less they can hurt others.
Thank you Patty for making a huge Dent in this totalitarian organization
that works so hard to make less of people like you,
and me, and all the other critics with FACTS. Keep up the great work: I'm
proud of you~~I KNOW what it takes to finally speak out and it's a lot...but
it only gets better and better and better. :)
Tory/Magoo~~
Burbank, CA
(818) 841-3632
(Call me in the evenings, if you'd like to)
Ed
I have no idea what Tawnya meant by this post, but as far as
I know, in the LMT days Tawnya was publicly on the good side. I don't
think she was a deep double agent. I wish she would clarify.
Ed
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Zinj" <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1e70d5eb3...@news.day.sbcglobal.net...
Actually other than the lojack idea, you could configure a little
noise-maker that makes a really loud "ticking" sound, and attach it to the
bottom of their car, with a timer set to delay it. You can't postulate
practical jokes away, either.
--
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology
http://BuffaloScientologyInfo.com - http://www.xenu.net
http://PerkinsTragedy.org - http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
* "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All
mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
Android Cat
> "Zinj" <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1e70d5eb3...@news.day.sbcglobal.net...
>> In article <33710$44070443$cf702ad2$26...@PRIMUS.CA>, androidcat98
>>>
>>> by a considerable pucker factor. (Add sound and colour too--but NO
>>> smell-o-vision!)
>>> http://www.whyaretheydead.net/mirror/xenu.ca/multimedia/peter_ramsay_01.ram
>>
>> Speaking of 'smell-o-vision'; kitty litter wrapped bank 'dye bombs'
>> in the trash = smelly blue courserooms.
Taking other people's trash directly back to the Org is against policy.
(They have too much of their own, you see.)
> Actually other than the lojack idea, you could configure a little
> noise-maker that makes a really loud "ticking" sound, and attach it
> to the bottom of their car, with a timer set to delay it. You can't
> postulate practical jokes away, either.
A cheap, loud piezo beeper that goes off randomly in the middle of the
night? As funny as it would be, I dunno if that's such a good idea these
days. Besides, they'd turn that practical joke around pretty quickly:
"Critics plant hoax bomb!"
Magnetically clamping a dead fish to them might be nice. Pity if it was a
rental...
Any counter-lurk would have to be done on the quiet, of course. No point in
talking about it on the phone if they're already listening, or running wires
in the garden while they're watching.
--
Ron of that ilk.
Let's play Find the Suppressive Poisson!
Pe...@anon.lcs.mit.edu
I do NOT want to see this on Google Video!
Peter Ramsay, OSA Toronto
Patty Pieniadz
"bb" <basic...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141254235....@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> BB
> What ever you may or may not have done that is wrong, its
> clear you are motivated to do what is best.
>
> If you are in need of forgiveness, you have it from me. :)
>
Thank you very much BB, that was very sweet of you.
Patty
Patty Pieniadz
"Michael Greenberg" <micha...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1141257974.9...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Thanks Michael,
I appreciate you saying so.
Patty
Patty Pieniadz
> <ppienia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For a while, Bob Minton was number one on Scientology's enemies list.
>>
>> The Church was fairly convinced that Bob was a PDH'd
>
> Did you really believe Scientology was a "church?"
absolutely
>
> Do you now believe Scientology is a "church?"
Legally it is a church, but I personally believe that it is a cult.
Patty
>
Patty Pieniadz
>
> Thanks, Patty. Have you given thought to apologizing to
> Bob and Therese personally? I have their contact info if
> you need it.
Thanks Warrior,
I have written to Bob and apologized. I also wrote to Steve Hassan,
I've heard from Steve, hopefully I will hear back from Bob.
Patty
barbz
Zinj
says...
<snip>
> > Do you now believe Scientology is a "church?"
>
> Legally it is a church, but I personally believe that it is a cult.
>
> Patty
Just as a comment, not a rebuke :)
Arguing about whether Scientology is a religion *or* a Cult *or* a
'Church' is perennial on ARS and in Scientology Criticism in general,
and I think it's one of the least 'productive' aspects.
The words 'Church' or 'Religion' or 'Cult' are so diaphanous and multi-
meaninged as to be literally meaningless except as rhetorical brickbats.
They mean anything and nothing, and that's why the 'Church' of
Scientology is so fond of distracting the discussion to the debate; it
takes attention *off* of the very real realities of the 'Church' of
Scientology and the 'philosophy' of Scientology and the 'actions' of the
'Church' of Scientology and the *mandates* of the 'religion' of
Scientology.
The 'Church' is willing to argue about whether it's a religion or a cult
or a church from now to doomsday, because it means nothing and steals
desperately needed 'airtime' and 'sound bites' from discussion of the
very concrete and quantifiable and demonstrable abuses and activities
and intentions of the 'Church'.
For a sociologist, the words may have some meaning, but that is not how
they are used in public forums, so it's best to ignore them and get back
to things that are less slippery; such as 'Keeping Scientology Working';
Fair Game; Disconnection; Fraud; Subversion; Corruption; Perjury;
Extortion or any of the other 'religious' rituals of Hubbardism.
From my own personal viewpoint, I think that Scientologists *do* see
Scientology as a 'religion', although they might be the last to
recognize it, being under the impression that they're just 'faking out
the wogs'.
Tina & Joel Phillips
Tina's not going to like this one bit when she sees it. :(
Tina & Joel Phillips
--
Proud Sponsors of the Church of Scientology's Hate Site, Religious Freedom
Watch. Reluctant Sponsors of http://www.xenu.net.
And longtime big fans of L Ron Hubbard's Admissions!
Read L Ron Hubbard's Affirmations, one of the earliest examples of OT solo
auditing.
http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/nl/english/admissions-hubbard.html
or
http://www.lermanet2.com/reference/Admissions.pdf
L Ron Hubbard's Affirmations inspire us! That's what Tina says!!
Patty Pieniadz
"Magoo" <mag...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:9fENf.18$YF...@fe06.lga...
Thanks very much Tory, I've only recently come to realize how very evil
the C of S has been.
My actions were done by me and know one else. I had plenty of opportunity
to say no, or back out or refuse. I did what was asked of me because I
thought
I was doing the right thing.
It took some courage to come here and post this information, but it took
more
courage to face myself and the rotten things I did for my "church". That's
the part
the hurt the most and I'm done beating myself up about it. Posting has been
quite wonderful as it has allowed me to unburden myself of these "hidden"
acts
done for Scn.
Thank you for speaking out about these abuses, I now know what it took for
you to do this. It sure ain't easy.
Patty
Piltdown Man
Patty Pieniadz <ppienia...@gmail.com> wrote...
> > Do you now believe Scientology is a "church?"
>
> Legally it is a church, but I personally believe that it is a cult.
Those two qualifications have never been mutually exclusive.
Keith Henson
That one was great!
I have a bit of information from the Toronto org. They held a Rah Rah
meeting not long ago trying to impress a few new suckers. A high
fraction of the shills 1/2? 3/4? were from the States according to my
source that counted the cars with US plates in the parking lot.
Incidentally, "Ron of that Ilk", I don't comment on your postings very
often, but I *always* read them. :-)
Keith Henson
wbarwell
>
> "Warrior" <war...@xenu.ca> wrote in message
> news:151264329.000...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>>
>> Thanks, Patty. Have you given thought to apologizing to
>> Bob and Therese personally? I have their contact info if
>> you need it.
>
> Thanks Warrior,
>
> I have written to Bob and apologized. I also wrote to Steve Hassan,
> I've heard from Steve, hopefully I will hear back from Bob.
>
> Patty
>
Thank you for doing that. It takes a big person to do it.
This is one of the great objections I have with
Scientology, that it has long attacked people, such
as Paulette Cooper, but never apologizes, never
examines its behavior, never changes for the better
because it cannot say "I did wrong". This is a sign of
real growth in a person, not the peudo-ethics Scientology
peddles. It looks like they can't aim that high.
--
An Inuit hunter asked the local missionary priest: "If I did not know about
God and sin, would I go to hell?" "No," said the priest, "not if you did
not know." "Then why," asked the Inuit earnestly, "did you tell me?"
-Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek
Cheerful Charlie
barbz
> Patty Pieniadz wrote:
>
>
>>"Warrior" <war...@xenu.ca> wrote in message
>>news:151264329.000...@drn.newsguy.com...
>>
>>
>>>Thanks, Patty. Have you given thought to apologizing to
>>>Bob and Therese personally? I have their contact info if
>>>you need it.
>>
>>Thanks Warrior,
>>
>>I have written to Bob and apologized. I also wrote to Steve Hassan,
>>I've heard from Steve, hopefully I will hear back from Bob.
>>
>>Patty
>>
>
>
> Thank you for doing that. It takes a big person to do it.
>
> This is one of the great objections I have with
> Scientology, that it has long attacked people, such
> as Paulette Cooper, but never apologizes, never
> examines its behavior, never changes for the better
> because it cannot say "I did wrong". This is a sign of
> real growth in a person, not the peudo-ethics Scientology
> peddles. It looks like they can't aim that high.
>
>
Scientology can never be wrong. Look at the arguments put out here after
they had my bike towed.
I MUST have parked illegally, because legally parked vehicles NEVER get
towed. And, of course, Scientology PIs would NEVER do anything as
unethical as posing as a restaurant manager!
Amazingly warped logic they use to justify the unjustifiable.
blackdove
Thank you so much for posting your stories; I am glad you are done
beating yourself up over the past, because there's no use in doing
that... but there is great use in sharing your experiences with the
public. Think of all the people you will have helped! That may be a
small comfort at least.
You're very brave. I commend you.
-blackdove
Tigger
Tawnya Fondren wrote:
> Patty,
>
> What color did you decide to use in your home renovation? All things
> considered, French tarragon probably works well for you, with a splash
> of Austrian gray.
>
> You surely are kind, too; a surely kind of kind.
Oh, it's just Charlie, friend of Brooks & Minton, the ditzy blonde who
pissed off Judge Schaeffer when Minton was doing his part to help OSA
make the Lisa wrongful death suit "go awaay".
Maybe it's some kind of secret code or a decorating tip from Stacy?
Tigger
>
> Patty Pieniadz wrote:
> > For a while, Bob Minton was number one on Scientology's enemies list.
> >
> > The Church was fairly convinced that Bob was a PDH'd
> > {http://www.scientology.org/en_US/feature/glossary/#p} psych case
> > (someone that's been treated by a psychiatrist) that was somehow
> > involved in a conspiracy and given millions to destroy Scientology.
> > Per LRH policy, Minton must have some very serious "crimes" to be so
> > critical of Scientology and it was OSA's responsibility to find and
> > expose those "crimes" and shut him up.
> >
> > They would never believe for a moment that Bob was just a rich guy
> > with a cause he could sink his teeth into. That didn't fit in with
> > their paranoid world view and so the Church of Scientology went after
> > Bob Minton with everything they had.
> >
> > I was an OSA invest volunteer during Bob Minton's "Reign of Terror" on
> > the church and I'm not going to discuss the pro's and con's of Bob
> > Minton, but rather my participation in harassing him for the Church of
> > Scientology.
> >
> > I was not a rogue agent of the Church and only did things upon their
> > orders and instructions. As an OSA volunteer, I had a rather high
> > security clearance and was very trusted to follow orders and keep my
> > mouth shut. In order to obtain the security clearance I had to have
> > certain qualifications including giving them my full life history
> > {http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/history3.htm}
> >
Phil Scott
"Patty Pieniadz" <ppienia...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:46pb0bF...@individual.net...
You have quite a ride ahead of you Patty, like Tory, also a
very exceptional person...now look at her.. speaking
nationally and being greeted with a standing ovation and full
of life, dancing in the moonlight.
Not everyone has that gift...I think as Tory said that it
comes from a core integrity.. you demonstrate that also, and
an extremely human and a writing style that proves your
intelligence... all that credibilty will have big effects in
getting this fraud exposed.
. From here I think you will go right out the top as you
have noticed some of the benefits already.
Perhaps next some of the heavy inside financial scammers will
see their way to speaking up...or one of their wives will
speak up to as more are sent to prison... just one of those
speaking would open things wide. I think its inevitable.
The next financial panic will spin off the court cases and
discovery that will force those issues...Reed Slatkin will be
looking at getting his parole requests denied and years added
to his sentence for lying to the court... his choice will be
to come clean or rot in prison.
On the issue of repairing the damges... personally coming out
and standing forward as yourself, Tory, Chuck and others have
done more than heals the damage in you personally over time,
it seems to make the person much stronger...and it heals the
damage to some extent in the larger public who learns how the
cult operated, and by what mechanisms people were attracted
then ruined.
Taking personal responsibilty for what thousands of other
people did, some as deliberate criminals and others entrapped
in the brainwash is not warranted in my view, regardless
Hubbards insane notions... one is responsible for what oneself
does... not the rest of the forking world.
Hubbard spun a huge trap,...making others 'responsible' for
the results of the massive devastation he so carefully
engineered. One has a responsibilty to cure himself, see the
mechanisms, in my case the egocentric base structure and
corrupt view that spawns.... the rest follows.
Phil Scott
Lermanet.com
<ppienia...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://lermanet.com/patti-pieniadz/
congratulations patti
hows it feel?
Arnie
Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speake
If the Borg were to breed with the Ferengi you'd get Scientology!
29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion Judge Leonie Brinkema
"the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of RTC in suing Lerma, DGS and The Post is to stifle criticism of Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
The internet is the Liberty Tree
http://www.lermanet.com/faqs.html#psychiatry
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/altreligionscientology-killfile-settings.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/crowley-hubbard-666.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/flint-suicides-in-scientology-040383.htm
both with IMAGES!!
"Scientologists believe that most human problems
can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial
people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million
years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters"
to individuals in the contemporary world, causing
spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives
of their hosts"
[Judge Leonie Brinkema 4 Oct 96 Memorandum Opinion]
What do we get from getting people out of scientology?
We create an individual who has become a Houdini of
all mind traps.. folks who won't be fooled again.
People who can DE-program, People who can spring mental
traps..
We create, by freeing someone of scientology, a being
who has the ability to break the strongest slave chains
of all.
Those forged of lies. (c) Arnaldo Lerma
Keith Henson
<cga...@NOSPAMcitlink.net> wrote:
>These revelations about Scientology, Inc. tactics should cause any
>thinking person to ask, "why would a church ever stoop to such
>measures?" Of course the answer is that their operation is a church in
>name only.
The FBI never had doubts about what scientology is. They are classed
as organized crime except for a short period when someone decided that
"paramilitary" fit better.
Keith Henson
Bode Brausnan
The "Homeland Security" measures in the USA have had one positive
effect: more counties have been granted access to the FBI's TAI
database. The Threat Assessment Index is often inaccurate,
unfortunately.
> Keith Henson
Patty Pieniadz
"Mark Bunker" <markb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141272660.6...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks so much for this post and all the others you've done and plan to
> do. I appreciate especially hearing about the tactics used against the
> LMT.
>
> Do you have any other details?
My memory is certainly not what is used to be ;-). I can't think of many
details right now but people may post things that will trigger memories and
when that happens I will be sure to write more specific things.
I do remember Maureen talking to me about the LMT and bragging how Stacy
was very jealous of Maureen's comm line to Bob and Stacy would do everything
she could to stop Bob from getting in comm with her (Maureen).
Also Maureen bragged about her essay to the LMT drove Stacy crazy. I
recently read Stacy's post on that and saw that poor Maureen didn't really
have a clue as to what Stacy was talking about. Maureen saw Stacy's post as
jealously and natter and not what is was, which was a response to Maureen's
deep indoctrination.
Maureen also told me a story about Stacy calling the cops on Maureen for
entering the LMT and how Ben Shaw was very pleased at the way Maureen
handled the cops because she got in all of Scn's PR lines in on Scn and
against the LMT, portraying the LMT as a bunch of haters and nuts.
A few other things...
My first op on the LMT was a few days after it opened. Mary Francis Newey
Stinson ask me to find the LMT mission statement and then call the LMT
pretending to be a relative of someone that joined a cult. I was not to use
Scn but was to use a different cult like the Wiccans.
The idea was that OSA was going to have different OSA operatives make lots
of phone calls into the LMT and tie their lines up.
It seemed like a dumb idea, but I did it anyway. I made one or two phone
calls and then came down with a flu (heh, must have gone pts) so I told MF
that it was too much entheta for me and I didn't want to do it anymore. She
said fine but I think she thought I was a wuss.
Patty
Patty Pieniadz
"blackdove" <januar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141350423.5...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Thanks Blackdove,
I guess I was just finally ready to do this. Again, if they hadn't acted so
despiciably toward Chuck, I'd probably still be lurking.
The C of S is unable to be responsible for the conditions they create. The
more hateful they become, the more people will speak out.
Patty
> -blackdove
>
Patty Pieniadz
"Lermanet.com" <ale...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:67jf0215s79ai9fir...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:31:28 -0500, "Patty Pieniadz"
> <ppienia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://lermanet.com/patti-pieniadz/
>
> congratulations patti
>
> hows it feel?
It feels great! Thanks for asking.
Patty
Mark Bunker
>
> "Mark Bunker" <markb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1141272660.6...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>> Thanks so much for this post and all the others you've done and plan to
>> do. I appreciate especially hearing about the tactics used against the
>> LMT.
>>
>> Do you have any other details?
>
> My memory is certainly not what is used to be ;-). I can't think of many
> details right now but people may post things that will trigger memories
> and
> when that happens I will be sure to write more specific things.
>
> I do remember Maureen talking to me about the LMT and bragging how Stacy
> was very jealous of Maureen's comm line to Bob and Stacy would do
> everything
> she could to stop Bob from getting in comm with her (Maureen).
>
> Also Maureen bragged about her essay to the LMT drove Stacy crazy. I
> recently read Stacy's post on that and saw that poor Maureen didn't really
> have a clue as to what Stacy was talking about. Maureen saw Stacy's post
> as
> jealously and natter and not what is was, which was a response to
> Maureen's
> deep indoctrination.
I don't remember either of these posts. Can anyone report them? Thanks.
> Maureen also told me a story about Stacy calling the cops on Maureen for
> entering the LMT and how Ben Shaw was very pleased at the way Maureen
> handled the cops because she got in all of Scn's PR lines in on Scn and
> against the LMT, portraying the LMT as a bunch of haters and nuts.
I have video of that. I will have to dig it up and post it. It was from
the time period when we had Scientologists constantly busting in to harass
us. Of course, Jeff and I were banned from visiting a public art exhibition
at a Scientology building or attending a Better Business Bureau speech at
the Fort Harrison. We would have been arrested if we had set foot in their
doors.
Here's Mary DeMoss (oops...Mary Panton) and others barging into the LMT
during that period:
http://www.xenutv.com/trust/invasion.htm
> A few other things...
>
> My first op on the LMT was a few days after it opened. Mary Francis Newey
> Stinson ask me to find the LMT mission statement and then call the LMT
> pretending to be a relative of someone that joined a cult. I was not to
> use
> Scn but was to use a different cult like the Wiccans.
>
> The idea was that OSA was going to have different OSA operatives make lots
> of phone calls into the LMT and tie their lines up.
>
> It seemed like a dumb idea, but I did it anyway. I made one or two phone
> calls and then came down with a flu (heh, must have gone pts) so I told MF
> that it was too much entheta for me and I didn't want to do it anymore.
> She said fine but I think she thought I was a wuss.
Thanks, Patty. I appreciate the post.
Tigger
Mark Bunker wrote:
> "Patty Pieniadz" wrote:
(snip)
> > I do remember Maureen talking to me about the LMT and bragging how Stacy
> > was very jealous of Maureen's comm line to Bob and Stacy would do
> > everything
> > she could to stop Bob from getting in comm with her (Maureen).
> >
> > Also Maureen bragged about her essay to the LMT drove Stacy crazy. I
> > recently read Stacy's post on that and saw that poor Maureen didn't really
> > have a clue as to what Stacy was talking about. Maureen saw Stacy's post
> > as
> > jealously and natter and not what is was, which was a response to
> > Maureen's
> > deep indoctrination.
>
> I don't remember either of these posts. Can anyone report them? Thanks.
>
>
Stacy Brooks' essay on Maureen O'Keefe's essay:
Google Groups : alt.religion.scientology
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/ea43f5f303470e78
~~Quote~~
I found Maureen O'Keefe's essay to be the most illustrative, albeit
inadvertently, of the Scientology mindset.
Maureen states that "One's conclusions are only as good as the data on
which
they are based. Faulty data never leads to an accurate conclusion.
Accurate
conclusions are vital to successfully solve the problems posed by
life." Yet she is unwilling to accept the possibility that she is
forming opinions and coming to conclusions about critics based on
faulty data that she is being given by her Scientology sources. She is
unwilling to consider the possibility that her conclusions might be
wrong because that would not be the greatest good for the greatest
number of dynamics.
It would not be good for Scientology for the information being made
available
by the critics to be true. Therefore, it is false.
In another paragraph Maureen states: "The ability to think for oneself
and
act in accordance with the dictates of one's own conscience requires
that a
person be able to be responsible. When a member of any group merely
does what
he is told, he is not being responsible - he is being a robot. When a
member of any group becomes incapable of making decisions based on his
own observations and feels he must do exactly as his superiors wish
whether he agrees or not, that person ceased taking responsibility for
himself and his group at a much earlier date."
This is a breathtaking example of the kind of denial the Scientology
system engenders in its members. This is exactly what Maureen and other
Scientologists are doing - they have set aside their own critical
thinking skills in favor of the privilege of being a member of
Scientology. Maureen cannot use her own observations to make decisions
because the decisions she would make would be contrary to the greatest
good for the greatest number of dynamics. If she were to base her
conclusions on her own observations Maureen would be forced to find
fault with Scientology and this is not permissible.
She has no choice but to do exactly as her superiors wish whether she
agrees or not. Therefore, she agrees.
The irony is that it was exactly for this reason that I left
Scientology. I was not able to think for myself and form my own
conclusions without finding myself in grave danger of psychological,
emotional and physical harm. I was faced with a choice: either continue
to put myself in danger by acting in accordance with the dictates of my
own conscience, or cease taking responsibility for myself and my group
and start doing exactly as I was told by my superiors. The only way I
could see to take responsibility for myself and my group was to leave
it and seek help elsewhere to bring about the ethical and moral changes
I saw needed to be made.
This is what I am continuing to do to this day, yet Maureen and her
fellow
Scientologists cannot accept this. It cannot be true that my leaving
Scientology was an ethical decision on my part. It cannot be true
because it would be bad for Scientology; therefore, it is false.
What if Maureen began to take responsibility for the things she sees
within Scientology that are not ethical? What would happen to the life
she has so carefully and painstakingly created for herself?
In another section of Maureen's essay she takes up the subject of
ethics directly. It is in this section that the hypocrisy of the
Scientology mindset is most clearly illuminated.
After explaining the eight dynamics, Maureen states: "People… place
different
importance on different dynamics. We are surrounded by examples every
day.
How about the man who abandons his wife and children to take up with a
prostitute just because she inflates his ego and makes him feel
important.
This man would be said to have a stronger urge toward survival on the
First
Dynamic than he had on his Second Dynamic. Because his actions are
destructive to his family and himself, sooner or later, he will
experience
the same pain he has caused his family….
In a decaying society as we find
here in the United States at this writing, far too many people are
interested
solely in their first dynamic. The result is the increasing divorce
rate, crime and other social ills. A person who only cares about
himself is on the way out, for life to be lived to its fullest requires
active participation on and responsibility for all eight dynamics."
Here is another instance of utter denial on the part of a Scientologist
for what Scientology itself is doing.
What about the woman who contacted me at the LMT several months ago,
desperate because she had lost her husband to Scientology? They had
been married for nearly twenty years and had had a wonderful
relationship. They had two teenage daughters and a really happy family.
Then he did a management
seminar and soon began disappearing for months at a time to take
Scientology
services. He emptied their bank account, used all the credit on their
credit
cards, didn't pay their taxes and put them in debt to the IRS by nearly
$100,000.00. When she told him she was worried about their finances,
her husband became very angry and told her to stop criticizing
Scientology. When she told him their daughters missed their father and
wondered what had happened to him, he threatened to disconnect from her
if she said anything bad about Scientology to their children.
The woman called me after she discovered that her husband had become a
staff member at a Scientology organization. She told me he had gotten
the family into nearly $200,000.00 debt and she was stunned that any
organization would allow someone to treat their family the way he was
treating his. She said she had written several reports and had had
several phone calls with
Scientologists trying to sort this out, but it was just getting worse
and worse. She asked what I thought she should do.
Although Scientologists like Maureen will probably not believe this, I
advised the woman to write a Knowledge Report to the proper people
within Scientology, because, I told her, it is off-policy in
Scientology for anyone to be recruited on staff when they have such
terrible debts. If the proper people in Scientology found out what had
happened, I told her, they would ensure that her husband took
responsibility for the debts.
To my surprise, no one did anything at all. The woman again asked what
she should do and I told her to write another report, this time cc'ing
me at the LMT to let Scientology know that she was in touch with me.
The woman did this, and only then was her husband ordered off staff to
handle his debts.
But he also told his wife he wanted a divorce because she was
antagonistic to
Scientology for having gotten in touch with the LMT. Now Scientologists
like
Maureen are calling Bob Minton a hate monger and the LMT a hate group.
Why?
Because we are trying to help people who have been treated the way this
woman
was by Scientology?
Is this what Maureen calls ethical behavior? Yet within Scientology,
this is
indeed considered ethical. It is ethical for this man to run up huge
debts for his family as long as the money is going toward Scientology
services. But
it is unethical for this man to remain with his wife and children if
they are critical of Scientology.
This is only one example of the kinds of calls we get at the LMT every
day.
Scientologists like Maureen do not believe this; they think I am lying
about this. Of course, I am not lying. But Maureen must believe that I
am a liar because if I were telling the truth, it would open the door
to the possibility that other information being made available by
Scientology critics is true. Therefore, it is false.
In another paragraph of Maureen's essay she talks about the good works
Scientologists do for the community: "For instance, for the past three
years I have personally organized the Christmas Food Drive at the
Church in Boston for the benefit of the Sandown Food Pantry. This
community project ensures that the children of needy families in
Sandown, New Hampshire are provided with, amongst other things, healthy
nutritious snacks in school. As it is hard for a child to learn when he
is hungry or improperly nourished, the donations from the Food Drive
seeks to help these children get a better education."
This is a stunning example of the cynicism and hypocrisy of
Scientology's dealings with what they call the "wog world," or the
world outside of Scientology. Sandown, New Hampshire is the town where
Bob Minton lives. For the past three years Maureen has been in charge
of a harassment campaign against Bob in
Sandown. Maureen has organized several mailings to the approximately
4,000
citizens of Sandown and has herself written at least one letter that
has been
sent to all the citizens of Sandown. All of the fliers and letters have
been derogatory about Bob and Bob has received many phone calls from
his neighbors sympathizing with him about being the target of such a
hate campaign by
Scientology. The reason Maureen started her Sandown Food Pantry project
was
that many of the citizens of Sandown complained to the Scientology
organization in Boston about the fliers that were being sent to them.
Maureen's food drive is an effort to correct the bad public relations
she created by her campaign of character assassination against Bob
Minton in his New Hampshire hometown.
Maureen concludes her essay with a suggestion for how the conflict
between
Scientology and its critics can be resolved: "Now the simplest way to
put an end to the matter is for those attacking Scientology to just
decide to stop
attacking and stop. As L. Ron Hubbard clearly stated in an article
entitled
"Critics of Scientology: 'If you will leave us alone we will leave you
alone.'…."
She leaves out the most important part of that quote, so let me make it
available to you here:
"We are slowly and carefully teaching the unholy a lesson. It is as
follows:
'We are not a law enforcement agency. BUT we will become interested in
the
crimes of people who seek to stop us. If you oppose Scientology we
promptly
look up - and will find and expose - your crimes. If you leave us along
we
will leave you alone.'
"It's very simple. Even a fool can grasp that.
"And don't underrate our ability to carry it out."
I don't think there is a better quote by L. Ron Hubbard for showing the
true
motive for attacking people who criticize Scientology. As I said
earlier, the
Scientologists' essays have been very instrumental in revealing the
real source of concern for critics of Scientology.
This is how a Scientologist justifies refusing to look at the critics'
data:
It would not be good for Scientology for the information being made
available
by the critics to be true. Therefore, it is false.
What the Scientologists seem to be saying is this: A person who has
never
been in Scientology cannot possibly know anything about it. A person
who has
left Scientology cannot possibly be telling the truth about it. The
only valid source of information about Scientology is a Scientologist
in good standing.
But if a Scientologist is unwilling or unable to look at both sides of
the issue, then how can a Scientologist be a valid source of
information? The truth is that any serious critic of Scientology who
has honestly analyzed the data on both sides knows more about
Scientology and understands it more thoroughly than any current
Scientologist. Furthermore, Scientologists who decide to evaluate the
information on both sides of the Scientology issue inevitably decide to
leave the organization because they do not want to be part of it once
they see it for what it really is.
~~End of Quote~~
realpch
<snip>
What a dreadful woman!
Peach
Susan
"realpch" <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:440A1C16...@aol.com...
You can say that again!
Susan
>
> Peach
Mark Bunker
"Tigger" <Tiggeri...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1141512358....@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
Mark Bunker wrote:
> "Patty Pieniadz" wrote:
(snip)
~~Quote~~
the same pain he has caused his family.
~~End of Quote~~
Thank you, Shirley. It was great to read Stacey's full post again. I had
forgotten all about it. This is the smart, compassionate woman I was so
happy to work with and call a friend. So different from the caricature put
forward by many on a.r.s.
Eldonbraun
> I guess I was just finally ready to do this. Again, if they hadn't acted so
> despiciably toward Chuck, I'd probably still be lurking.
>
> The C of S is unable to be responsible for the conditions they create. The
> more hateful they become, the more people will speak out.
Patty,
You do know how much LRH hated the idea of apologizing. In his infamous
"admissions," he told himself he had never had a reason to apologize
for anything. He told auditors never to apologize for messing up while
giving a session. And there are other examples.
Not apologizing honestly for mistakes is antisocial and psychotic. You
willingness to do so is inspiringly human and lovable.
>
> Patty
> > -blackdove
> >
barbz
Scientology means never having to say you're sorry...
Fredric L. Rice
I'd have to wonder if she was that bad before she started purchasing
courses from the Scientology company. I'd bet they made an existing
problem much worse. Looking at what they make the rubes do, a whole
raft of it is highly debilitative, attacking very basic Primate core
behavior and supplanting it with money-paying behavior.
---
Domino's Pizza: "Ketchup on burnt cardboard sprinkled with bacon bits
is not by any stretch of the imagination a culinary delight." -- Tag Heuer
Fredric L. Rice
>You do know how much LRH hated the idea of apologizing. In his infamous
>"admissions," he told himself he had never had a reason to apologize
>for anything. He told auditors never to apologize for messing up while
>giving a session. And there are other examples.
>Not apologizing honestly for mistakes is antisocial and psychotic. You
>willingness to do so is inspiringly human and lovable.
Just like George W. Bush, in fact.
realpch
The Church of Scientology certainly assists those with the inclination
to consider some very antisocial behavior laudable. I've been thinking
about bullies lately. You know I've been reading Keith's stuff. A lot of
it probably comes with the genes. Of course, any parent worth his or her
salt, tries their best to civilize their offspring, since they really do
not arrive civilized, and some are harder to train than others.
Peach
Patty Pieniadz
>
> You do know how much LRH hated the idea of apologizing. In his
> infamous "admissions," he told himself he had never had a reason to
> apologize
> for anything. He told auditors never to apologize for messing up while
> giving a session. And there are other examples.
>
> Not apologizing honestly for mistakes is antisocial and psychotic. You
> willingness to do so is inspiringly human and lovable.
Thank you for saying that Eldon
I'm really happy to do it. A weight has been lifted off me since posting
some of my stories and publicly apologizing for my actions.
The Church never apologizes, they believe they are always right. In Scn
they call that Service Facsimiles. Funny how they "dramatize" their ser fac
on
everyone else by never being wrong.
--
TIP #1
In order to properly eat a doughnut you need some liquids
to wash it down. Coffee, milk, and Mountain Dew are the
three most widely accepted doughnut chasers with coffee
and milk having the added value of 'dunkability'.