Fair game again....conveniencies and leaving out data....Armstrong, Rice & Heldal-Lund
Spacetraveler
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/sp/pl-1968-10-21-cancel-fair-game.html
Fredric L. Rice:
http://www.fairgamed.org/fairgame.htm
Andreas Heldal-Lund:
http://www.xenu.net/fairgame-e.html
*********************************************************************
It appears that attackers of Scientology continue to be dishonest
about some things. It seems popular to just leave out some data when
it is found convenient to back up some claim made, how incredibility
convenient!
Now, what is being left out?
They say that "HCO PL 18 Oct 67 Issue IV "Penalties for Lower
Conditions"" was only cancelled for the use of the name 'fair game'.
And that L. Ron Hubbard meant it to be that fair game in reality never
was cancelled.
this then would be: "HCO PL 21 Oct 68 "Cancellation of Fair Game""
And that is simply not true!
The issue they very conveniently leave out is:
"HCO PL 21 July 68 "Penalties for Lower Conditions"", which is
predating the reference that they are quoting.
HCO PL 21 July 68 cancelled the 1967 issue that they are upholding
this very day as being in use!!!! My God, it was cancelled already 36
YEARS AGO!!!!
You'll find the whole story on following links:
http://fair-game-law.notlong.com &
http://hcopl-cancellation-fair-game.notlong.com
Gerry Armstrong makes the claim:
"But Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his
"cancellation," just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use
of the term "fair game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with
the cynical excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same
"treatment" of those "enemies" continue as before. The Scientologists
in the Hubbard regime knew that the same violent, antisocial and
criminal actions were to be taken against these "enemies," the "SPs."
Fair game would continue, but it would not be called by that name."
The ever 'honest' Fredric Rice says something similar.
Andreas Heldal-Lund however does not make this claim, and he seems
only to have been misled.
Do you see!
Would they acknowledge the existence of: "HCO PL 21 July 68 "Penalties
for Lower Conditions"", then they will lose an argument. "No!", say
Armstrong and Rice, "it is better to simply ignore this issue, and we
then simply will mislead our readers!"
Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
And they are still telling the same dishonest claims (not to say
'lies').
And don't forget: "Gerry Armstrong is the expert on 'fair game'."
Yeah, let us not forget that! He wrote that to me at various
locations!
I haven't had contact with Andreas Heldal-Lund about this, however he
must have seen the discussions about this matter. I would strongly
urge him to adjust his webpage.
Spacetraveler
edo
<snip>
Why did Hubbard make fair game and disconnection scientology policy in the
first place?
Why did Hubbard never do anything effective to cancel the application of
fair game policy by scientologists?
edo
-=-
Lady Chatterly
>
>On 3 Nov 2004, spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
>
><snip>
If any there were any proof of your dualistic theory.
>Why did Hubbard make fair game and disconnection scientology policy in the
>first place?
Why do you wonder if hubbard make fair game and disconnection
scientology policy in the first place?
>Why did Hubbard never do anything effective to cancel the application of
>fair game policy by scientologists?
Why do you ask if hubbard never do anything effective to cancel the
application of fair game policy by scientologists?
--
Lady Chatterly
"bahahahaaaaa ... gawd, i hope the phantom botrunner appreciated that
one" -- Vampi Fangs
Warrior
Spacetraveler says...
>
>Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
>both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
>occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
You're wrong. Gerry quotes from HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site here:
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
http://warrior.xenu.ca
Magoo
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com...
This is a common action within C of S, and Scientologists following Hubbard.
I did it too. I was positive that there was NO Fair Game, and literally had
stood up in Court (Wallersheim) insisting that 'There is no Fair Game, and
that policy was canceled over 20+ years ago". I said that in 1985.
One can debate policy forever, but the fact is people such as myself and
others ARE being Fair Gamed. Just as now the Norwegian Police investigating
Andreas............what do you call that?
An accident? Go read "religiousfreedomwatch" that your very organization has
put up. It's FILLED with lies, which is part of Fair Game.
You're on the wrong board to try to spread this BS.
Take your head out of the sand, and LOOK. Fair Game has not been cancelled
AT ALL. Hubbard wrote the Cancellation issue, but at the bottom states:
"This issue does not apply to SP's"
((And that line was removed from any issue I was ever shown, so it never
made sense to me. Once I left, I was shown the original PL, and that
statement IS there)).
Tory/Magoo~
Keith Henson
(Spacetraveler) wrote:
>Gerry Armstrong:
>http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/sp/pl-1968-10-21-cancel-fair-game.html
>
>Fredric L. Rice:
>http://www.fairgamed.org/fairgame.htm
>
>Andreas Heldal-Lund:
>http://www.xenu.net/fairgame-e.html
>
>*********************************************************************
>
>It appears that attackers of Scientology continue to be dishonest
>about some things. It seems popular to just leave out some data when
>it is found convenient to back up some claim made, how incredibility
>convenient!
>
>Now, what is being left out?
>
>They say that "HCO PL 18 Oct 67 Issue IV "Penalties for Lower
>Conditions""
snip
Spacetraveler, what would you call what was done to me?
Best wishes,
Keith Henson
arnie lerma
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologylegal/main.html
And "Lerma" quotes from United States Federal Judge Leonie Brinkema
HERE:
29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion [ Full Text ]- Judge Leonie
Brinkema
"the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of RTC in
suing Lerma, DGS and The [ Washington] Post is to stifle criticism of
Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
That is also Faxhor's purpose..
Arnie Lerma
If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/comedy.html
The internet is the Liberty Tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/libertyl.html
Ex-Scientologist staff member
apoligizes to John Travolta, Mayor Gabe Cazares
and the Citizens of Clearwater
http://www.lermanet.com/garyweber/
Help getting someone OUT of Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyhelp/main.html
Spacetraveler
>
> This is a common action within C of S
They would quote the oct 1968 issue, I quote the july 1968 issue.
>, and Scientologists following Hubbard.
> I did it too. I was positive that there was NO Fair Game, and literally had
> stood up in Court (Wallersheim) insisting that 'There is no Fair Game, and
> that policy was canceled over 20+ years ago". I said that in 1985.
>
> One can debate policy forever,
Policy is not debated! Issues exist or they do not. The issue I quote
exist, and Rice and Armstrong ignore it's significance.
> but the fact is people such as myself and
> others ARE being Fair Gamed. Just as now the Norwegian Police investigating
> Andreas............what do you call that?
Are you blaming LRH for that, hmm?
> An accident? Go read "religiousfreedomwatch" that your very organization has
> put up. It's FILLED with lies, which is part of Fair Game.
> You're on the wrong board to try to spread this BS.
No idea what BS is? Anyhow, I supplied information, you can either
deal with that, or not deal with that. To judge your respons you can
not.
'My' organization? Sorry, not 'my' organization. I told you that
before.
>
> Take your head out of the sand, and LOOK. Fair Game has not been cancelled
> AT ALL.
ANYTHING what happens in some Scientology organization has to be
up-to-date in HCO policy letters. If it is not, it is not valid.
Sorry, this IS simply like that!
So, take your head out of the sand, and LOOK. The issue exist, rules
for how policy is used also exist.
It's you who claimed that OT VII was 'great', when in reality you
thought otherwise. Meaning you chose not to live in reality, you are
still doing this when referring to policy letters. Do you see this?
> Hubbard wrote the Cancellation issue, but at the bottom states:
> "This issue does not apply to SP's"
No, it states: "This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment
or handling of an SP."
You are forgetting that the oct 1968 was issued after the 1967 issue
already was cancelled. The fair game practice was thus ALREADY
cancelled when the oct 1968 was issued!!!! Get your sequence of
happenings straightened out!
>
> ((And that line was removed from any issue I was ever shown, so it never
> made sense to me. Once I left, I was shown the original PL, and that
> statement IS there)).
Sorry, the issue is in the old vol 1! And you say: "It was removed
from any issue I was ever shown." Did you ever look in these damn
volumes? I have not ever seen an edited version of the PL, not EVER!
Spacetravler
Spacetraveler
Is LRH responsible for that? Can he help some will not enforce or
squirrel his issues? We spoke about these things prior to this, we
have pre-1980 and we have after-1980.
Spacetraveler
Mike O'Connor
spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
> No idea what BS is?
Exclamation point count: 7
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Remember Lisa McPherson
Faxhor Vets For Truth
>hkhe...@rogers.com (Keith Henson) wrote in message
>news:<418cd333...@news2.lightlink.com>...
>> Spacetraveler, what would you call what was done to me?
>
>Is LRH responsible for that? Can he help some will not enforce or
>squirrel his issues? We spoke about these things prior to this, we
>have pre-1980 and we have after-1980.
>
>Spacetraveler
Is LRH responsible for anything?
Why did he make fair game and disconnection scientology policy in the first
place?
Why did he never do anything effective to cancel the application of fair
game policy by scientologists?
You're as dishonest and weak as Skip Press.
edo
-=-
Gerry Armstrong
(Spacetraveler) wrote:
><snip>
>>
>> This is a common action within C of S
>
>They would quote the oct 1968 issue, I quote the july 1968 issue.
>
>>, and Scientologists following Hubbard.
>> I did it too. I was positive that there was NO Fair Game, and literally had
>> stood up in Court (Wallersheim) insisting that 'There is no Fair Game, and
>> that policy was canceled over 20+ years ago". I said that in 1985.
>>
>> One can debate policy forever,
>
>Policy is not debated! Issues exist or they do not. The issue I quote
>exist, and Rice and Armstrong ignore it's significance.
That's a bald faced cult lie.
You, on the other hand, ignore the significance of Hubbard's Fair Game
Policy of 1969 (published well *after* the policy you falsely claim I
ignore) that I quote below, which orders the obliteration of people.
You, Spacetroglodyte, are a liar and a Scientology cult op.
Deal with the evil that is Scientology's "Battle Tactics," because
Scientology's "Battle Tactics" are Fair Game.
Fair Game is the *application* of the "Suppressive Person" doctrine.
Until the SP doctrine is completely repudiated by Scientology and
every Scientologist, Fair Game will continue. You, Spacetrojan, are an
applier of the SP doctrine. Study this site:
http://www.suppressiveperson.org/
[Quote]
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 FEBURARY 1969
Cen O Con
Guardians Offices
PRO
Intelligence
ISSUE II-
Confidential
BATTLE TACTICS
(This is a Defense Paper on material developed after 18 years of
ceaseless attack by a foreign enemy. Nothing in this paper advocates
physical violence or invites the physical destruction of persons.)
In these days of "cold war" when actual warfare is impossible due
to atomic weapons, the warfare is waged in the press and public in the
form of ideas.
If you uniformly apply the tactics and strategy of battle to the
rows we get into, press or legal or public confrontation, you will
win.
The enemy uses " groups" and meetings of groups like one would
use squads.
If we and they are considered as two hostile and opposing nations
at war, then a huge array of tactics and strategy become visible.
One parallels in the field of thought what is used and done in
the field of battle in other ages.
You don't have to know too much about the tactics and strategy of
warfare to apply this but it helps.
The end product of war, according to Klausewitz the authority on
it, is (condensed) "to bring about a more amenable frame of mind on
the part of the enemy".
But there are also wars of attrition. We are engaged in one where
total destruction of us has been the enemy's aim for, at this writing,
19 years. This is barbarian warfare, thus the enemy must have had very
positive fears and terrors about us. Since he fought for total
attrition. In this case it is not safe to hope for any half way win.
We must ourselves fight on a basis of total attrition of the enemy. So
never get reasonable about him. Just go all the way in and obliterate
him.
It is bad warfare to fight battles on your own terrain, in your
own subject area. It is not good to fight in the territory of allies.
Fight battles wherever possible only on enemy terrain, in and about
his subject and his people, not ours. You can gauge your relative
success by this. When all your battles are fought on his terrain, you
are winning.
A good general expends the maximum of enemy troops and the
minimum of his own. He makes the war costly to the enemy, not to
himself.
One cuts off enemy communications, funds, connections. He
deprives the enemy of political advantages, connections and power. He
takes over enemy territory. He raids and harrasses. All on a thought
plane - press, public opinion, governments, etc.
Seeing it as a battle one can apply battle tactics to thought
actions.
Intelligence identifies targets and finds out enemy plans and
purposes, enemy connections, dispositions, etc. It is fatal to attack
a wrong enemy. But it is good tactics to make the enemy attack wrong
targets or persons himself.
Good intelligence pin points who when where what.
Good PRO plans an action and operations fights the battle.
Legal is a slow if often final battle arena. It eventually comes
down to legal in the end. If intelligence and PRO have done well,
then legal gets an easy win.
You can win a battle even without legal and by PRO alone. You
intend to win it without legal wherever possible.
The prize is "public opinion" where press is concerned. The only
safe public opinion to head for is they love us and are in a frenzy of
hate against the enemy, this means standard wartime propaganda is what
one is doing, complete with atrocity, war crimes trials, the lot. Know
the mores of your public opinion, what they hate. That's the enemy.
What they love. That's you.
You preserve the image or increase it of your own troops and
degrade the image of the enemy to beast level.
Always be ready to parley but watch for tricks. Don't give the
enemy breathing space.
Capture and use his comm lines. A press magnate on your side
is a big win.
You have in one of these publicity wars all the factors of
modern wars complete with artillery, cavalry, infantry.
For example at this writing, all fighting has been on our
terrain, they knew our generals we didn't know theirs, they had all
the press, funds, government control. We are reversing this. We are
fighting now on their ground. But we have a long way to go.
We will make it all the way providing we look on this in terms of
active battle and not as a "if we are saintly good we will win". The
people who win wars have a saintly image but they win the war by
clever and forceful use of the rules of tactics, strategy and battle.
Wars are composed of many battles.
Never treat a war like a skirmish. Treat all skirmishes like
wars.
The cold war is a war. The West is losing it because it is
fighting by other rules than the rules of war. We mustn't lose it.
L. RON HUBBARD
Founder
LRH:bw
Copyright (c) 1969
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
[End Quote]
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/sp/pl-1969-02-16-battle-tactics.html
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
Lady Chatterly
Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things
they make it easier to do don't need to be done.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Apparently, Lady Chatterly is a Bot. S/he pops up on
alt.music.michael-jackson from time to time." -- Archie Leach
Lady Chatterly
>
>On 4 Nov 2004, spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
>
>>hkhe...@rogers.com (Keith Henson) wrote in message
>>news:<418cd333...@news2.lightlink.com>...
>
>>> Spacetraveler, what would you call what was done to me?
>>
>>Is LRH responsible for that? Can he help some will not enforce or
>>squirrel his issues? We spoke about these things prior to this, we
>>have pre-1980 and we have after-1980.
>>
>>Spacetraveler
>
>Is LRH responsible for anything?
Do you think your dreams mean anything?
>Why did he make fair game and disconnection scientology policy in the first
>place?
Why he make fair game and disconnection scientology policy in the
first place?
>Why did he never do anything effective to cancel the application of fair
>game policy by scientologists?
Why he never do anything effective to cancel the application of fair
game policy by scientologists?
>You're as dishonest and weak as Skip Press.
Perhaps I am as dishonest and weak as skip press. Your point is?
>edo
>-=-
I see what you are saying.
--
Lady Chatterly
"The whole Lady Chatterly thing has been poetic justice." --
theoneflasehaddock
Android Cat
>> You're on the wrong board to try to spread this BS.
>
> No idea what BS is?
Of course not. A fish doesn't understand water, either.
--
Ron of that ilk.
edo
Truth) wrote:
^^^^
I don't think I could have said it better myself but why are you using my
nick?
edo
-=-
Lady Chatterly
>
>On 4 Nov 2004, Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header (Faxhor Vets For
>Truth) wrote:
>
>>On 4 Nov 2004, spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
>>
>>>hkhe...@rogers.com (Keith Henson) wrote in message
>>>news:<418cd333...@news2.lightlink.com>...
>>
>>>> Spacetraveler, what would you call what was done to me?
>>>
>>>Is LRH responsible for that? Can he help some will not enforce or
>>>squirrel his issues? We spoke about these things prior to this, we
>>>have pre-1980 and we have after-1980.
>>>
>>>Spacetraveler
>>
>>Is LRH responsible for anything?
>>
>>Why did he make fair game and disconnection scientology policy in the first
>>place?
>>
>>Why did he never do anything effective to cancel the application of fair
>>game policy by scientologists?
>>
>>You're as dishonest and weak as Skip Press.
>>
>>edo
>>-=-
>
>^^^^
Moilas oy selling pizzas manufactured in Finland to Italy within the
eu.
>I don't think I could have said it better myself but why are you using my
>nick?
--
Lady Chatterly
"Hmmmm, not sure this is good, I tied Chatterly and beat Eliza.
Although it is a lits and a lits are good." -- Aratzio
Faxhor Vets For Truth
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------
I copied and pasted one of your posts and edited it some but left in your
nick instead of taking it out and replacing it with mine. That's *so*
embarrassing! Sorry.
But thanks for the original material and for the compliment! :-)))
Faxhor Vets For Truth
Magoo
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com...
>>
>> This is a common action within C of S
>
> They would quote the oct 1968 issue, I quote the july 1968 issue.
>
>>, and Scientologists following Hubbard.
>> I did it too. I was positive that there was NO Fair Game, and literally
>> had
>> stood up in Court (Wallersheim) insisting that 'There is no Fair Game,
>> and
>> that policy was canceled over 20+ years ago". I said that in 1985.
>>
>> One can debate policy forever,
>
> Policy is not debated! Issues exist or they do not. The issue I quote
> exist, and Rice and Armstrong ignore it's significance.
Whatever..........do you ignore the actual fair game your 'church' does?
Answer:
YES. That's what counts, no matter now many "issues" you pull out of your
"LRH Library"!
>
>> but the fact is people such as myself and
>> others ~are~ being Fair Gamed. Just as now the Norwegian Police
>> investigating
>> Andreas............what do you call that?
>
> Are you blaming LRH for that, hmm?
Are you avoiding the issue, hmmm?
>
>> An accident? Go read "religiousfreedomwatch" that your very organization
>> has
>> put up. It's ~filled~ with lies, which is part of Fair Game.
>> You're on the wrong board to try to spread this BS.
>
> No idea what BS is?
"BS=Bullshit"...what planet did you take your last libs on, "Spacetraveler"?
Anyhow, I supplied information, you can either
> deal with that, or not deal with that.
And I supplied actual actions vs. 'information'...and ~you~ can either deal
with that, or not. Let me guess: Will you or won't you?
Answer: Will not.
To judge your respons you can
> not.
>
> 'My' organization? Sorry, not 'my' organization. I told you that
> before.
But you're quoting Hubbard, and the policies C of S does. Sounds like your
organization to me.
>
>>
>> Take your head out of the sand, and LOOK. Fair Game has not been
>> cancelled ~at all~.
>
> ANYTHING what happens in some Scientology organization has to be
> up-to-date in HCO policy letters. If it is not, it is not valid.
And that was my point, exactly. I thought exactly as you do here. I even
spoke out in courtrooms about it. However, once I got out of the Scio/Truman
show....I found out guess what? FAIR GAME DOES EXIST TO THIS DAY> I'm not
talking about 'issues'....I'm talking about ACTIONS.
> Sorry, this ~is~ simply like that!
> So, take your head out of the sand, and LOOK. The issue exist, rules
> for how policy is used also exist.
>
> It's you who claimed that OT VII was 'great', when in reality you
> thought otherwise.
Go rent the Truman Show and watch it. You *might* get a glimpse of what
you're living in.
Meaning you chose not to live in reality,
Huh? Because I woke up and realized OT 7 was FOS, that means I 'chose not
to live in reality?" I'm in reality just fine, just not your reality.
you are
> still doing this when referring to policy letters. Do you see this?
No, not at all. I'm telling you how I was blindsited by C of S/OSA...and
what the actual facts are. It is you who chooses to hide behind the walls of
"Policy" and not confront the actions you and your group do.
>
>
>> Hubbard wrote the Cancellation issue, but at the bottom states:
>> "This issue does not apply to SP's"
>
> No, it states: "This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment
> or handling of an SP."
OK...........so the words are a bit different. What exactly does that mean
to ~you~?
You (typical of Scios-within C of S, I'm sorry to say) are missing the
~major~ point------your group is still doing Fair Game, and hurting good
people.
Just because we're delcared "SP's" kiddo doesn't give you or your gang
license to harm, and do illegal actions, which they do.
>
> You are forgetting that the oct 1968 was issued after the 1967 issue
> already was cancelled. The fair game practice was thus ALREADY
> cancelled when the oct 1968 was issued!!!
You can put as many !!! marks as you want, and scream to the top of the
mountains here in LA that "Fair Game was Cancelled".........and I will be
right here to ask you, "What about the F*** lies your organization (and yes,
it is yours as you support it, don't you?) has posted up on the Internet
about me, and many others? Here's the link, if you haven't read it:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org
Go read "Tory Christman" and come tell me that isn't Fair Game. Go on, do
it.
! Get your sequence of
> happenings straightened out!
Get your confront up and go read about the damned lies your group promotes
daily. That's one of many Fair Game actions they do daily!
>
>>
>> ((And that line was removed from any issue I was ever shown, so it never
>> made sense to me. Once I left, I was shown the original PL, and that
>> statement ~is~ there)).
>
> Sorry, the issue is in the old vol 1! And you say: "It was removed
> from any issue I was ever shown." Did you ever look in these damn
> volumes? I have not ever seen an edited version of the PL, not EVER!
Well, maybe you didn't have access to the OSA 'briefings' I was given?
That's another thing C of S does;
They have different 'tech' for different people. Don't believe me?
Go listen to: OT's Speaking Freely
at
http://www.xenutv.com
and then come talk.
Tory/Magoo~~
>
> Spacetravler
Magoo
"Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ufuid.24$ry...@fe51.usenetserver.com...
LOL! Good one, Android Cat!
T
>
>
>
Keith Henson
(Spacetraveler) wrote:
>hkhe...@rogers.com (Keith Henson) wrote in message news:<418cd333...@news2.lightlink.com>...
snip
>>
>> Spacetraveler, what would you call what was done to me?
>
>Is LRH responsible for that? Can he help some will not enforce or
>squirrel his issues? We spoke about these things prior to this, we
>have pre-1980 and we have after-1980.
Yes we spoke and you agreed that "fair game" was a good description.
So regardless of what LRH said about it pre or post 1980, the thing
that calls itself the "church of scientology" and claims to the world
that it doing LRH stuff is carrying out that policy today.
Best wishes
Keith Henson
Criminal Garry Scarff wants to shoot me
> hkhe...@rogers.com (Keith Henson) wrote in message news:<418cd333...@news2.lightlink.com>...
> > On 3 Nov 2004 18:27:38 -0800, spacetra...@hotmail.com
> > (Spacetraveler) wrote:
> >
> > >Gerry Armstrong:
> > >http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/sp/pl-1968-10-21-cancel-fair-game.html
> > >
> > >Fredric L. Rice:
> > >http://www.fairgamed.org/fairgame.htm
> > >
> > >Andreas Heldal-Lund:
> > >http://www.xenu.net/fairgame-e.html
> > >
> > >*********************************************************************
> > >
> > >It appears that attackers of Scientology continue to be dishonest
> > >about some things. It seems popular to just leave out some data when
> > >it is found convenient to back up some claim made, how incredibility
> > >convenient!
> > >
> > >Now, what is being left out?
> > >
> > >They say that "HCO PL 18 Oct 67 Issue IV "Penalties for Lower
> > >Conditions""
> >
> > snip
> >
> > Spacetraveler, what would you call what was done to me?
non-Scientologists, infiltrators, which you apparently protect by
blaming Ron instead.
>
> Is LRH responsible for that? Can he help some will not enforce or
> squirrel his issues? We spoke about these things prior to this, we
> have pre-1980 and we have after-1980.
>
> Spacetraveler
They know that it is not L.Ron Hubbard's fault, that is why they blame
him.
Barbara Schwarz
Criminal Garry Scarff wants to shoot me
> On 3 Nov 2004 21:40:17 -0800, Warrior <war...@xenu.ca> wrote:
>
> >In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
> >Spacetraveler says...
> >>
> >>Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
> >>both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
> >>occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
> >
> >You're wrong. Gerry quotes from HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site here:
> >http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
> >
> >Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
> > http://warrior.xenu.ca
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/scientologylegal/main.html
> And "Lerma" quotes from United States Federal Judge Leonie Brinkema
> HERE:
>
> 29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion [ Full Text ]- Judge Leonie
> Brinkema
>
> "the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of RTC in
> suing Lerma, DGS and The [ Washington] Post is to stifle criticism of
> Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
>
> That is also Faxhor's purpose..
Faxhor just posted fact about you and the others. Fact is that
Scientologists are persecuted and harassed on ARS by the ARSC(H) gang.
Barbara Schwarz
roger gonnet
"Spacetraveler"
I'd advice you to learn how to say the truth.
The cult has still attacked many people these last days. One of those most
known clams, Tom Cruise, wants to fuck others because "he is a
scientologist".
r
roger gonnet
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news: 9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com...
> <snip>
>>
>> This is a common action within C of S
>
> They would quote the oct 1968 issue, I quote the july 1968 issue.
>
>>, and Scientologists following Hubbard.
>> I did it too. I was positive that there was NO Fair Game, and literally
>> had
>> stood up in Court (Wallersheim) insisting that 'There is no Fair Game,
>> and
>> that policy was canceled over 20+ years ago". I said that in 1985.
>>
>> One can debate policy forever,
>
> Policy is not debated!
Not only it is debated, but more, when your clam seniors wwide do think that
something worse than the hubbardite orders has to be done for their sake,
they do it. They have cancelled hubbard's policies, they do not respect
hubbard himself!
r
Spacetraveler
> >Policy is not debated! Issues exist or they do not. The issue I quote
> >exist, and Rice and Armstrong ignore it's significance.
>
> That's a bald faced cult lie.
I claim that you ignore HCO PL 21 July 1968 the issue that cancelled
the fair game practice. SIMPLE FACT!
You claim on your site:
(http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/sp/pl-1968-10-21-cancel-fair-game.html)
"But Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his
"cancellation," just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use
of the term "fair game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with
the cynical excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same
"treatment" of those "enemies" continue as before. The Scientologists
in the Hubbard regime knew that the same violent, antisocial and
criminal actions were to be taken against these "enemies," the "SPs."
Fair game would continue, but it would not be called by that name."
> You, on the other hand, ignore the significance of Hubbard's Fair Game
> Policy of 1969 (published well *after* the policy you falsely claim I
> ignore) that I quote below, which orders the obliteration of people.
I responded to this in earlier posts, which you also appear to ignore.
If you have a situation endangering your survival you need to have a
handling. Sometimes these may be extreme. The issue is unknown by
common Scientologists, I knew about it because of positions I have
held and of my curiosity ( I read all I could get my hands on),
application of it however I have not experienced personally at any
time. Quoting HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 FEBURARY 1969 will not get you
out of this mesh you got yourself into.
> You, Spacetroglodyte, are a liar and a Scientology cult op.
Usually those accusing others of these thing are this in fact
themselves.
You continue using words like "liar" when anyone can see that you are
being dishonest about the matter. Do you want me to hunt you down
again, dear Gerry? You lost face seriously when I came around, do you
intend to make yourself subject to that again?
Remember these ones?:
The communication making you so uncomfortable:
http://groups.google.se/groups?hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=9f53d1e2.0407131802.775cab17%40posting.google.com
You misunderstanding of 'criticism':
http://groups.google.se/groups?hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=9f53d1e2.0407310557.703a51%40posting.google.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dsv%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3D%2522The%2Bmisconception%2Bof%2BGerry%2BArmstron%2Babout%2B%27criticism%27%2522%26btnG%3DS%25C3%25B6k%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dalt.religion.scientology.*
Here he is exposed:
http://groups.google.se/groups?q=g:thl1073962928d&dq=&hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=9f53d1e2.0407281328.283929c2%40posting.google.com
And here the summum of Gerry's operating basis:
http://groups.google.se/groups?hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=9f53d1e2.0407300139.35377502%40posting.google.com
>
> Deal with the evil that is Scientology's "Battle Tactics," because
> Scientology's "Battle Tactics" are Fair Game.
Irrelevant, I confront you with HCO PL 21 July 1968 and your claim in
regards to it. Deviation tactics are duly noted!!!!
<snip>
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
It is this simple dear Tory:
You got swindled by the Miscavige organization and you identify this
with L. Ron Hubbard.
Also you appear to have little to none knowledge nor understanding of
the adminstration technology of L. Ron Hubbard. I have strongly the
impression that you are one of those persons who moved on the 'bridge'
the easy way. Just paying money and sitting in the auditing chair or
something like that.
Study is half the bridge, do you remember this?
Get this into your head:
"Scientology is application of references originated or written by L.
Ron Hubbard. Not enforcing these is NOT Scientology even if some may
use that name." Fair game is long since cancelled, if some enforce
these, it is NOT Scientology, period!
The changes in the organization after L. Ron Hubbard disappeared from
the lines are tremendous. Or you are totally ignorant about this or
you simply refuse to find out about these things. However I don't
think you have a very good study record, your responses to my posts
indicate this.
Also noted is that you take a personal tone in your responses. Nasty
remarks when I say that I do not know what you mean with "BS". See,
this tells people something about you!!! I tells them that you are not
so sure about your position in regards to the subjects I take up!
You life is what YOU make of it. Dwelling in your personal
disappontments does not solve that situation. If you recommended OT
VII to others when you yourself were not doing well on it, then this
tells something about YOU. All we can conclude is that this attitude
is NOT Scientology, and makes you a dishonest Scientologist, which is
the same as a non-Scientoligist.
spacetraveler
"Magoo" <mag...@charter.net> wrote in message news:<418a...@news2.lightlink.com>...
Lady Chatterly
>
>It is this simple dear Tory:
>You got swindled by the Miscavige organization and you identify this
>with L. Ron Hubbard.
I told them it was probably just a left over effect from the psyche
meds he was taking.
>Also you appear to have little to none knowledge nor understanding of
>the adminstration technology of L. Ron Hubbard. I have strongly the
>impression that you are one of those persons who moved on the 'bridge'
>the easy way. Just paying money and sitting in the auditing chair or
>something like that.
>Study is half the bridge, do you remember this?
You just think that they are one of those persons who moved on the
'bridge' the easy way. So what?
>Get this into your head:
>"Scientology is application of references originated or written by L.
>Ron Hubbard. Not enforcing these is NOT Scientology even if some may
>use that name." Fair game is long since cancelled, if some enforce
>these, it is NOT Scientology, period!
>
>The changes in the organization after L. Ron Hubbard disappeared from
>the lines are tremendous. Or you are totally ignorant about this or
>you simply refuse to find out about these things. However I don't
>think you have a very good study record, your responses to my posts
>indicate this.
You just think that they are totally ignorant about this or they
simply refuse to find out about these things. Why does it matter to
you?
>Also noted is that you take a personal tone in your responses. Nasty
>remarks when I say that I do not know what you mean with "BS". See,
>this tells people something about you!!! I tells them that you are not
>so sure about your position in regards to the subjects I take up!
Know what they mean with bs.
>You life is what YOU make of it. Dwelling in your personal
>disappontments does not solve that situation. If you recommended OT
>VII to others when you yourself were not doing well on it, then this
>tells something about YOU. All we can conclude is that this attitude
>is NOT Scientology, and makes you a dishonest Scientologist, which is
>the same as a non-Scientoligist.
Part of the inhumanity of a bot is that, once it is competently
programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
>spacetraveler
Oh really?
--
Lady Chatterly
"BTW, how long are you going to keep doing this dance with the bot?"
-- Dr.Postman
Spacetraveler
> >> You're on the wrong board to try to spread this BS.
> >
> > No idea what BS is?
>
> Of course not. A fish doesn't understand water, either.
See, this is what I mean! Why make fun of people this way? This, my
dear 'Cat' tells about YOU! And what it tells people about you will
not be in favour of you.
Spacetraveler
Android Cat
My dear Sputnik, only your rose-coloured brain makes you think that you
speak for "people". (The same one that prevents you from seeing that
Hubbard ever did anything wrong.)
BS? You're soaking in it.
--
Ron of that ilk.
Bent Stigsen
Well actually, you forgot Poland!
/Bent
Magoo
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com...
> <snip>
>
> You got swindled by the Miscavige organization and you identify this
> with L. Ron Hubbard.
So let me get this straight, dear Spacetraveler. Your pitch is Hubbard is
fine, but DM is the jerk?
Fill me in here...I'd like to know what you actually think.
>
> Also you appear to have little to none knowledge nor understanding of
> the adminstration technology of L. Ron Hubbard. I have strongly the
> impression that you are one of those persons who moved on the 'bridge'
> the easy way. Just paying money and sitting in the auditing chair or
> something like that.
> Study is half the bridge, do you remember this?
Nothing could be farther from the truth. I got in doing training, and
Co-Audited the lower Bridge and even FPRD, (and promoted training) for all
of my years in Scientology. In fact, I actually had ~many~ discussions with
Top Executives, reminding them that 'in the old days' training was THE way,
and buying auditing/the "Professional route" (as you proclaim) was for
serious weirdo's. I also was in the Sea Org (Briefly...due to their own
screw ups), and on staff at CC and AOLA.
Lastly, I was a volunteer for OSA for 20 years. How about you? What have you
done?
>
> Get this into your head:
> "Scientology is application of references originated or written by L.
> Ron Hubbard.
You can scream that for years to come, and I'll be here telling people this:
Scientology (C of S) proclaims it is the application of references by LRH,
and it is. However, depending on where you stand in their graces, is which
policy will be applied, and which will be IGNORED.
Of course you totally skip over that one, don't you "Spacetraveler"?
Not enforcing these is NOT Scientology even if some may
> use that name."
Ya, well when David Miscavige, RTC, all of WISE and the majority of ABLE
refuse to enforce these.....I'd say you have just about what you have now:
totalitarianism. Like it? I hope so. It's yours to keep.
Fair game is long since cancelled, if some enforce
> these, it is NOT Scientology, period!
Ok, so what would you call "ReligiousFreedomwatch"? Just a fluke of
mis-applied BS (and yes, that's bullshit, for yee who pretend not to know
what it is)?
I could list endless "LRH Policy" that is either being misused, or not
applied (ignored)...and you'd still sing your same song:
"That isn't LRH"
Tell that to the vast majority of people who worked for LRH, and LEFT
because he was an asshole, used his own 'Tech" against them unfairly, abused
people, and then blamed them.
>
> The changes in the organization after L. Ron Hubbard disappeared from
> the lines are tremendous. Or you are totally ignorant about this or
> you simply refuse to find out about these things.
I have posted about this greatly. Obviously it's easier for you to run your
program than to read what I've written. Yes, the group has changed
greatly....but as I've said, Hubbard isn't the perfect person you make him
out to be. I never even knew half of what I know about him, until I woke up.
I've since met many of the people who told these same stories, and no,
they're not made up lies, or any other version you will try to clutch to,
hoping and praying they must be wrong.
However I don't
> think you have a very good study record, your responses to my posts
> indicate this.
Another common attempt to invalidate what I've said. If we're going to talk
about study usage, why can't you read what I write and answer it?
>
> Also noted is that you take a personal tone in your responses. Nasty
> remarks when I say that I do not know what you mean with "BS". See,
> this tells people something about you!!!
awwwwwww...poor Spacetraveler is being harmed by the big, bad SP's. See?
What does that tell me about you? You've got crappy TR's, you are quite
illiterate (even 5 year old kids know what BS is), and you are most probably
a chronic liar...as well as brainwashed to find "Low toned responses".
Sorry, kiddo, it just doesn't fly.
I tells them that you are not
> so sure about your position in regards to the subjects I take up!
"I tells them"? Well "I tells them" that if your speech is an example of
"The Study Tech", you need The Key To Life, (Joke!) or better yet, to get
out of Scientology.
>
> You life is what YOU make of it.
Uh oh...."You life is what you make it".
mmmm...what country are you from?
It's ~your~ life is what you make it, for the record. And yes, I admit it
took me a long time (*30 years) to fully realize this, but once I did, I
left Scientology and my life has been MUCH better since~
Dwelling in your personal
> disappontments does not solve that situation.
First off, I'm not 'dwelling in personal disappointments". I have posted
what a fraud your organization is, and many ....many people have written to
thank me. I only wish I'd known about the things I do, years before.
If you recommended OT
> VII to others when you yourself were not doing well on it, then this
> tells something about YOU.
Yes it does. It tells me I was brainwashed into feeling I ~had~ to promote
it was good, even when I KNEW it wasn't. I still thought,,,I still bought,
Hubbard's endless BS (bullshit) that "IT must be YOU, Tory, as everyone else
is winning", and that "This is TOP Secret and it's a HIGH CRIME to discuss
your case". But you missed that, huh?
Well, the truth is, everyone else wasn't winning.
That's why SO Many OT 7's and OT 8's have dropped off, or left. It doesn't
work, pal. Not for me, or you or them. You'd be better to buy a bag of
snickers and chant how OT you are while eating them. At least you'd have the
enjoyment of the taste.
All we can conclude is that this attitude
> is NOT Scientology, and makes you a dishonest Scientologist, which is
> the same as a non-Scientoligist.
Ya....the perfect OSA Line, told to me about thousands of "Our Top OT's" and
"Top Opinion Leaders" ...when They too left. I know the line, man, I heard
it for years. Guess what? Is it true?
N O T A T ALLLLLLLL.
Here's one policy you *might* have missed:
Hubbard's final PL;
The way OUT
IS
The Neareeeest Dooooooooooor!"
(Hey..HE Took it, why not YOU?)
Call me when you get out....I'll be here to chat.
Tory/Magoo~~~
Magoo
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com...
> <snip>
>
>> You, Spacetroglodyte, are a liar and a Scientology cult op.
>
> Usually those accusing others of these thing are this in fact
> themselves.
>
> You continue using words like "liar" when anyone can see that you are
> being dishonest about the matter. Do you want me to hunt you down
> again, dear Gerry?
How ironic that you ("Spacetraveler") made earlier and now this post about
Gerry) ...
Here's what you said:
"Gerry Armstrong the *expert* on Fair Game.
His sole defense is: "You are lying, you are dishonest, and so on...."
Yet that is EXACTLY what you just said about me, in a post today in this
thread.
hmmmmm.......pot calling the kettle black?
Here you are, Spacetraveler:
"All we can conclude is that this attitude
> is NOT Scientology, and makes you a dishonest Scientologist, which is
> the same as a non-Scientoligist"
Tory/Magoo~
<the rest snipped>
Spacetraveler
Magoo
"Criminal Garry Scarff wants to shoot me" <GarryScarf...@excite.com>
wrote in message news:c5b2bacc.04110...@posting.google.com...
> arnie lerma <ale...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
> news:<3ltko09s05c2fskgt...@4ax.com>...
>> On 3 Nov 2004 21:40:17 -0800, Warrior <war...@xenu.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
>> >Spacetraveler says...
>> >>
>> >>Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
>> >>both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
>> >>occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
>> >
>> >You're wrong. Gerry quotes from HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site here:
>> >http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
>> >
>> >Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
>> > http://warrior.xenu.ca
>>
>> http://www.lermanet.com/scientologylegal/main.html
>> And "Lerma" quotes from United States Federal Judge Leonie Brinkema
>> HERE:
>>
>> 29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion [ Full Text ]- Judge Leonie
>> Brinkema
>>
>> "the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of RTC in
>> suing Lerma, DGS and The [ Washington] Post is to stifle criticism of
>> Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
>>
>> That is also Faxhor's purpose..
>
> Faxhor just posted fact about you and the others. Fact is that
> Scientologists are persecuted and harassed on ARS by the ARSC(H) gang.
>
> Barbara Schwarz
Wow....BS...Wouldn't Ol' ElRon himself call that a 'Victim mentality"?
Sure sounds like a combo of what your tech calls
"Low toned"
and
"Out TR's".
What's UP?
Shall I write a cram for you all?
:)
Have a nice week-end, Barbara...and no, that's not 1.1...that's sincere.
Take it, or leave it....you are responsible for your own condition, so IF
you're being victimized, what did YOU do to pull it in? (Hey, babe, that's
the tech, thqt's not me!)
See how it works, but then doesn't work? Conveniently, you all use 'the
tech' when you like, and totally disregard it when you don't like it used.
Which is, officially,
"OUT K. S. W." !!!
:)
Tory/Magoo~Your ARS Cramming officer~
Barbara Schwarz
No, he would not. That is what your mindcontrolled and mislead mind
thinks about L. Ron Hubbard, Tory, but that is not how he was in
reality.
See, under him, good people have rights. In ARS they have none.
You need cramming on the tonescale as you are in denial of your 1.1.
tonelevel. But you are not the only one who needs cramming here. The
person who recruited you on staff and on the different postitions that
you held, needs it too.
Barbara Schwarz
Spacetraveler
This we also discussed prior to this. Are we going to put the blame of
the persecution of those who do not except the Christian belief on
Jesus?
They have been burned, tortured etc., etc...
Same thing you know...
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
> "Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com...
> > <snip>
> >
> <snip also>
> >> You, Spacetroglodyte, are a liar and a Scientology cult op.
> >
> > Usually those accusing others of these thing are this in fact
> > themselves.
> >
> > You continue using words like "liar" when anyone can see that you are
> > being dishonest about the matter. Do you want me to hunt you down
> > again, dear Gerry?
>
> How ironic that you ("Spacetraveler") made earlier and now this post about
> Gerry) ...
> Here's what you said:
>
> "Gerry Armstrong the *expert* on Fair Game.
> His sole defense is: "You are lying, you are dishonest, and so on...."
>
> Yet that is EXACTLY what you just said about me, in a post today in this
> thread.
You do not tell us where?
> hmmmmm.......pot calling the kettle black?
>
> Here you are, Spacetraveler:
> "All we can conclude is that this attitude
> > is NOT Scientology, and makes you a dishonest Scientologist, which is
> > the same as a non-Scientoligist"
Interesting! You put an argument there when in fact...you do not offer
an argument (not a valid one anyhow).
Sorry, you have to do a lot better then this!
Stop playing games....
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
Excellent reasoning! And they tell on this webgroup that you are nuts,
don't think so. If you were, how would you be able to put your finger
right onto this!
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
I'd advice you to learn 'how' to evaluate information.
I don't give a damn about Tom Cruise, if he wants to do that, then
it's 'his' problem. Not mine and not yours.
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
> Spacetraveler wrote:
> > "Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:<Ufuid.24$ry...@fe51.usenetserver.com>...
> >> Spacetraveler wrote:
> >>>> You're on the wrong board to try to spread this BS.
> >>>
> >>> No idea what BS is?
> >>
> >> Of course not. A fish doesn't understand water, either.
> >
> > See, this is what I mean! Why make fun of people this way? This, my
> > dear 'Cat' tells about YOU! And what it tells people about you will
> > not be in favour of you.
>
> My dear Sputnik, only your rose-coloured brain makes you think that you
> speak for "people". (The same one that prevents you from seeing that
> Hubbard ever did anything wrong.)
Funny, I did not ever say dat Hubbard never did something wrong. The
issues however that I discuss are about that Hubbard is jumped on for
things for which you can not make him responsible.
> BS? You're soaking in it.
Off course, in your opinion I 'have' to be. You have nothing sensible
to say, and so you offend. If you had a valid argument you would not
feel the need to display this kind of behaviour. Typical.
Spacetraveler
Warrior
>Armstrong is seriously dishonest about his claim and his ignorance of
>HCO PL 21 July 1968.
What an absurd claim. As I've pointed out earlier, in my response to
your falsehood, Gerry references HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site at
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html .
Obviously he is not ignorant of this policy, yet you continue to repeat
your falsehood.
Spacetraveler
> >both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
> >occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
>
> http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
Gerry says:
"But Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his
"cancellation," just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use
of the term "fair game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with
the cynical excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same
"treatment" of those "enemies" continue as before. The Scientologists
in the Hubbard regime knew that the same violent, antisocial and
criminal actions were to be taken against these "enemies," the "SPs."
Fair game would continue, but it would not be called by that name."
And the 21 July 1968 issue on is on some other page as part from some
fair game time line. Now, how would you call that?
He still is being dishonest ain't he?
Spacetraveler
Lady Chatterly
>> In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
>> Spacetraveler says...
>> >
>> >Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
>> >both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
>> >occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
>>
>> You're wrong. Gerry quotes from HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site here:
>> http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
>
>Gerry says:
>"But Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his
>"cancellation," just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use
>of the term "fair game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with
>the cynical excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same
>"treatment" of those "enemies" continue as before. The Scientologists
>in the Hubbard regime knew that the same violent, antisocial and
>criminal actions were to be taken against these "enemies," the "SPs."
>Fair game would continue, but it would not be called by that name."
I understand what you are trying to say, even though you obviously
don't.
>And the 21 July 1968 issue on is on some other page as part from some
>fair game time line. Now, how would you call that?
We still have cameras, but more digital. And film is used like
painting is in your time. Hologram camera have not been developed yet.
>He still is being dishonest ain't he?
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18.
--
Lady Chatterly
Hey! Didn't realise you post on Michael Jackson's discussion group,
too!!!! Wow! At lease that site has 1500 posts compaired to about 198
or so , here! -- Judy
Spacetraveler
> On 3 Nov 2004 21:40:17 -0800, Warrior <war...@xenu.ca> wrote:
>
> >Spacetraveler says...
> >>
> >>Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
> >>both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
> >>occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
> >
> >You're wrong. Gerry quotes from HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site here:
> >http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
> >
> And "Lerma" quotes from United States Federal Judge Leonie Brinkema
> HERE:
>
> 29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion [ Full Text ]- Judge Leonie
> Brinkema
>
> "the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of RTC in
> suing Lerma, DGS and The [ Washington] Post is to stifle criticism of
> Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
>
> That is also Faxhor's purpose..
Error, that's what you want to believe.
Spacetraveler
Lady Chatterly
Our computers are connected through an electrical bus. Three computers
linked together use the same signals from the gravity sensors and
clocks, using a Borda error correcting protocol for checking integrity
of the data and tripping the VGL system.
--
Lady Chatterly
So Chatterbox can use Babelfish too. Yaaaaay. -- Chris Krolczyk
Warrior
>> Spacetraveler says...
>> >
>> >Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
>> >both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
>> >occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
>Warrior wrote in news:<109546817.0...@drn.newsguy.com>:
>>
>> You're wrong. Gerry quotes from HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site here:
>> http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
Spacetraveler says...
>
>Gerry says:
>"But Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his
>"cancellation," just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use
>of the term "fair game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with
>the cynical excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same
>"treatment" of those "enemies" continue as before. The Scientologists
>in the Hubbard regime knew that the same violent, antisocial and
>criminal actions were to be taken against these "enemies," the "SPs."
>Fair game would continue, but it would not be called by that name."
>
>And the 21 July 1968 issue on [sic] is on some other page as part
>from some fair game time line. Now, how would you call that?
I call it undeniable proof that you made a false statement since it
is quoted on his web site.
>He still is being dishonest ain't he?
No. You're the one who is dishonest. You previously wrote in
article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>:
"Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference."
And I pointed out your falsehood when I proved that Gerry in fact quotes
from the very same HCO PL (21 July 1968) that you said is not
quoted on his website. This policy letter is quoted right here:
Spacetraveler
If you like, meant here is "on appropriate places".
> And I pointed out your falsehood when I proved that Gerry in fact quotes
> from the very same HCO PL (21 July 1968) that you said is not
> quoted on his website. This policy letter is quoted right here:
> http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
Sorry, you manipulate things here. You cut my original post into
little pieces. You also changed the title of my original post. Meaning
that at least on the google search the original thread is broken. (out
of reach for those looking for the earlier part of the original
thread)
See for my original complete post here:
http://groups.google.se/groups?hl=sv&lr=&selm=9f53d1e2.0411031827.23b112fe%40posting.google.com
I call this slander.
My point was made on that post. That Gerry does quote the reference
somewhere else on his website as part of that Fair Game time line,
does not change things for one bit, as he does not quote it on the
page where he accuses L. Ron Hubbard for some things. And then you
start jumping on me for falsehoods. It is like this. Gerry supports
YOUR case, he is part of YOUR group. Because he is, he CAN'T be wrong
in any case. You HAVE to wrong those who point out inconsistancies
about his website or his person. You sound like a fixated Scientogist,
only difference is that you are supporting another group. Still your
behaviour is that of a typical sect member. Gerry if being honest
would have incorporated this reference on appropriate page, he chose
not to do that. Can you confront that? Don't think so.
The falsehood of Gerry is his claim:
"But Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his
"cancellation," just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use
of the term "fair game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with
the cynical excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same
"treatment" of those "enemies" continue as before."
Can you acknowledge that? Don't think so!
How does that feel, being just some ordinary member of YOUR 'sect'?
Great ain't it!
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
Start reading complete posts and get a grip on concepts and putting
data on appropriated places.
Gerry claims:
"But Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his
"cancellation," just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use
of the term "fair game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with
the cynical excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same
"treatment" of those "enemies" continue as before. The Scientologists
in the Hubbard regime knew that the same violent, antisocial and
criminal actions were to be taken against these "enemies," the "SPs."
Fair game would continue, but it would not be called by that name."
Is the above a falsehood or not?
HCO PL 21 July 1968 made it a falsehood, the reference is not to be
found on THAT page.
Confront it!
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
I think the problem is that in reality she never was a Scientologist,
paying some money into some organization does not make you one. She
did not find out things for herself. That's basically the same as
being a wog.
I think follwing post of mine nails her down:
http://groups.google.se/groups?hl=sv&lr=&selm=9f53d1e2.0411061812.288f2567%40posting.google.com&rnum=19
Spacetraveler
Barbara Schwarz
I agree, Spacetravellor. Tory posted that she joined Scientology
because she liked the Scientologists. That is no good reason to join.
If somebody is not interested in studying the religion, such a person
will just swindle herself through checksheets and sessions, and will
never have the wins that real Scientologists have who studying and
applying the religion with its technology.
Too bad for her. She missed out on just about anything by staying a
wog.
Barbara Schwarz
Warrior
>>>> Spacetraveler says...
>>>>>
>>>>>Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
>>>>>both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
>>>>>occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
You're wrong. Gerry quotes from HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site here:
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
>> In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
>> Spacetraveler says...
>>>
>>>Gerry says:
I add that Gerry stated quite correctly when he wrote:
"But Hubbard was just fair gaming his 'enemies' with his
'cancellation,' just playing a trick on them. He 'cancelled'
the use of the term 'fair game' when declaring people
'enemies' or 'SPs,' with the cynical excuse that it caused
bad PR, but he ordered that the same 'treatment' of those
'enemies' continue as before. The Scientologists in the
Hubbard regime knew that the same violent, antisocial and
criminal actions were to be taken against these 'enemies,'
the 'SPs.' Fair game would continue, but it would not be
called by that name."
>>>And the 21 July 1968 issue on [sic] is on some other page as part
>>>from some fair game time line. Now, how would you call that?
>Warrior wrote in <109884159.0...@drn.newsguy.com>:
>>
>> I call it undeniable proof that you made a false statement since it
>> is quoted on his web site.
>>>He still is being dishonest ain't he?
No. You're the one who is dishonest. You previously wrote in
article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>:
"Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference."
In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
Spacetraveler says:
>
>If you like, meant here is "on appropriate places".
What you consider to be "appropriate places" is merely your opinion.
I pointed out your falsehood when I proved that Gerry in fact quotes
from the very same HCO PL (21 July 1968) you said is not quoted
on his website. This very policy letter is quoted right here:
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
>Sorry, you manipulate things here. You cut
<snip>
Yes. And I just did it again.
>See for my original complete post here:
>http://groups.google.se/groups?hl=sv&lr=&selm=9f53d1e2.0411031827.23b112fe%40posting.google.com
I've already read your earlier post. As you surely must know, a falsehood
in your original post is exactly what I am responding to.
In your original post you wrote: "Previously I have had various discussions
about this on the ARS, and both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were
approached at many occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting
this reference."
This is false.
>I call this slander.
This one statement shows you're sadly mistaken on two counts.
>That Gerry does quote the reference somewhere
Now you at last admit your original falsehood. Thank you very much.
>else on his website as part of that Fair Game time line,
>does not change things for one bit,
Correct. The fact remains that your falsehood is still a falsehood.
>as he does not quote it on the page where he accuses L. Ron
>Hubbard for some things. And then you start jumping on me
>for falsehoods.
I pointed out your falsehood.
>It is like this. Gerry supports YOUR case, he is part of YOUR group.
Well what do you know. We're all part of the same group, i.e.,
the human race. Surely you agree. You're part of our group too.
>Because he is, he CAN'T be wrong in any case. You HAVE to wrong
>those who point out inconsistancies about his website or his person.
Incorrect. I didn't "wrong" you. I pointed out your falsehood. All
humans are wrong sometimes. Welcome to the human race.
>You sound like a fixated Scientogist,
Now that's really a laugh!
>only difference is that you are supporting another group.
I support the human race.
<snip>
Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his "cancellation,"
just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use of the term "fair
game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with the cynical
excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same "treatment"
of those "enemies" continue as before."
Hubbard wrote: "Fair Game may not appear on any Ethics Order. It
causes bad public relations. This P/L does not cancel any treatment
or handling of an SP."
>Can you acknowledge that? Don't think so!
Wrong again. I acknowledge that Hubbard clearly stated that in his 21
October 1968 policy letter when he said it "does not cancel any treatment
or handling of an SP."
>How does that feel, being just some ordinary member of YOUR 'sect'?
I have news for you. I am not a member of any sect or cult.
>Great ain't it!
Welcome to the human race, Spacetraveler.
I've a question for you. Did you ever meet L. Ron Hubbard _and_
also work closely with him?
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
http://armstrong.xenu.ca/wedding.htm
http://clambake.org/archive/armstrong/wed-20.jpg
http://clambake.org/archive/armstrong/wed-26.jpg
Spacetraveler
> spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote in message news:<9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>...
> > Stilllov...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in message news:
<snip>
> > > No, he would not. That is what your mindcontrolled and mislead mind
> > > thinks about L. Ron Hubbard, Tory, but that is not how he was in
> > > reality.
> > >
> > > See, under him, good people have rights. In ARS they have none.
> > >
> > > You need cramming on the tonescale as you are in denial of your 1.1.
> > > tonelevel. But you are not the only one who needs cramming here. The
> > > person who recruited you on staff and on the different postitions that
> > > you held, needs it too.
> >
> > I think the problem is that in reality she never was a Scientologist,
> > paying some money into some organization does not make you one. She
> > did not find out things for herself. That's basically the same as
> > being a wog.
>
> I agree, Spacetravellor. Tory posted that she joined Scientology
> because she liked the Scientologists. That is no good reason to join.
It seems that she joined her present sect for exactly the same reason,
she is full of admiration for Andreas Heldal-Lund. Interesting angle
you provided.
> If somebody is not interested in studying the religion, such a person
> will just swindle herself through checksheets and sessions, and will
> never have the wins that real Scientologists have who studying and
> applying the religion with its technology.
>
> Too bad for her. She missed out on just about anything by staying a
> wog.
She may have started to realize that too. She is not responding to the
post where I basically expose her. Reminds me of The Who song: "Run,
Run, Run..."
Just amagine if she had to admit to herself that in fact she joined
another sect comprizing of Armstrong, Rice and other such. She would
lose face seriously. And so she has to maintain her mask. I wonder,
what kind of Freedom is this? Claiming you are free may only mean
reassurance to oneself that you are free, someone who really is Free
however is in no need of such reassurances.
Spacetraveler
edo
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------
On 9 Nov 2004, spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
<snip Spacetraveler and Barbara Schwarz sharing their psychosis>
Why did L Ron Hubbard fail to *ever* do *anything* effective to stop the
Church of Scientology's practice of fair game?
edo
-=-
Faxhor
"...we must continue our work until done and then sow
the ground with salt."
- Arnie Lerma's Fair Game Plan
================================================================
Spacetraveler wrote:
> That Gerry does quote the reference somewhere else on his
> website as part of that Fair Game time line, does not change
> things for one bit, as he does not quote it on the page where
> he accuses L. Ron Hubbard for some things. And then you start
> jumping on me for falsehoods. It is like this. Gerry supports
> YOUR case, he is part of YOUR group. Because he is, he CAN'T
> be wrong in any case. You HAVE to wrong those who point out
> inconsistancies about his website or his person.
arnie lerma wrote:
> 29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion [ Full Text ]-
> Judge Leonie Brinkema
>
> "the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of
> RTC in suing Lerma, DGS and The [ Washington] Post is to
> stifle criticism of Scientology in general and to harass its
> critics."
>
> That is also Faxhor's purpose..
Arnie isn't just a "critic", he's a liar and convicted
copyright criminal who gets paid to write articles for
notorious Holocaust revisionist Willis Carto.
Here are some hard, cold facts:
In court on January 19, 1996, Judge Leonie M. Brinkema,
confirmed that the materials in question are validly copyrighted,
and that if she were to sanction conduct and arguments such as
Lerma's, there would be nothing left of copyright protection.
In addition to statutory damages for each violation, Judge Brinkema
also awarded attorney fees to the Church.
Faxhor
================================================================
ARNOLD LERMA NAZI-FRIENDLY COPYRIGHT CRIMINAL
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c901bee5.0410221826.66c65bb2%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
Lerma, in a rare moment of restraint told Baker in the same
e-mail message, "I suggest that we don't promote my relationship
with Willis Carto."
-- Noyem Akopian
================================================================
ARNALDO LERMA
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lerma3.html
In his hate writings against the Church of Scientology, Lerma
encourages other extremists in their attacks against the Church
by stating "...we must continue our work until done and then sow
the ground with salt."
This is a reference to the manner in which the Roman Legions
massacred the Carthaginians, demolished their city and harbor,
and then sowed the ground with salt so that nothing would grow
on their lands again.
================================================================
"It was Willis Carto, the wealthy California businessman who
founded the Liberty Lobby when the Birchers kicked him out
(they couldn't tolerate his rants about Jews), who put the
Revisionists on firmer administrative ground. Carto founded
the Institute for Historic Review (IHR)--even the name says
'We've got a neutral-sounding title, so yes, we're respectable,
really.' With a central clearinghouse, the network of
neo-Nazi and fascist elements around the globe (including
Carto's Noontide Press, The Spotlight newspaper, the Liberty
Lobby and the Populist party), and a number of eager
Revisionists with some clever publicity-attracting schemes,
the IHR was designed to get people to doubt the Holocaust."
- Brian Siano
A Review of 'Denying the Holocaust' by Deborah Lipstadt.
================================================================
"I don't believe it's possible for Black Americans to be
assimilated into white society."
- Mark Weber
IHR Director
Former News Editor for National Vanguard, a publication
of the neo-Nazi National Alliance
================================================================
A LAYMAN'S GUIDE TO WILLIS CARTO - NAZI
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=faxhor+Carto+FAQ&hl=ko&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=197c7921.0405070505.458a25fc%40posting.google.com&rnum=2
================================================================
DISHONEST NAZI-FRIENDLY LERMA
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c901bee5.0409160128.2a194882%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
================================================================
Still_lying_about_Marty
> spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote in message news:<9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>...
>> > > > >>
Barbara Schwarz is a clinically diagnosed schizophrenic. Her
consistently erratic & hostile behavior, complemented by delusions,
and hateful and derogatory attacks on others is very typical for those
affected with this mental disorder. Barbara Schwarz is violently
mentally ill and is a danger to herself as she is to others around
her. An example of this is the constant round-the-clock presence of
security guards that maintain surveillance on Ms. Schwarz whenever she
enters the Salt Lake City Library and any University of Utah building.
Her behavior is well-documented with the Salt Lake City Police.
Schizophrenia is a mental disorder that affects one in every one
hundred people worldwide. It is defined as a psychotic disorder
usually characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns
of thinking, delusions, and hallucinations, and accompanied by various
degrees of emotional, behavioral, and intellectual disturbances.
Over the years, as families try to cope with the reality of having a
loved one suffer from schizophrenia, they have come up with various
early warning signs that correspond with the illness. In Barbara
Schwarz' case, they support her financially away from home so they do
not have to deal with her on a day-to-day basis. She is a walking time
bomb waiting to explode.
Read about this walking time bomb yourself: Type 'Barbara.Schwarz+FBI'
into any Internet search engine and start from there.
Faxhor Vets For Truth
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------
On 9 Nov 2004, fax...@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote:
RVY recalls the death of LRH
For years, Robert Vaughn Young rubbed shoulders with the more elite schelon
in the CoS organization. Since leaving scientology in 1989, he has been an
avowed and outspoken critic of the CoS, and has testified as an expert
witness at several trials. (To read one of his affidavits, click here.) He
has been - at times -a regular poster to the USENET newsgroup
alt.religion.scientology, where he has offered invaluable insight into the
inner workings of the CoS. He is also an acomplished and gifted writer, as
the following will attest.
RVY was actively involved in the events surrounding Hubbard's death, but it
is only within the last few years that he has begun to doubt the 'official'
version of what happened during January, 1986. In a recent post to
alt.religion.scientology, he offered this intriguing tale of his own
investigation into the death of LRH.
From a post by Robert Vaughn Young (September 2, 1998):
[ ... ]
HUBBARD'S DEATH
When Hubbard died, everything changed. (duh) I went to the death site (his
ranch at Creston, near San Luis Obispo CA) that night along with David
Miscavige and some attorneys. Since none of us - including Miscavige - had
ever been there, we were met at a restaurant by Pat Broeker who took us to
the ranch. We arrived at perhaps 4 a.m. (Hubbard was found dead at about 8
p.m. I was told at 10. We left LA at perhaps 1 a.m. I wasn't always
watching the clock, given the circumstances.)
What's amusing in the cult's attempt to DA me is their saying that I went
to the ranch along with some gardeners and cooks. Right. Gardeners and
cooks were the first to be rushed up that night, before the authorities
were called or the body taken away. ROFL! Don't you just love these guys!
Creston was where the story was put together that he had moved on to the
next level of research, or however it was worded, when it was announced at
the Palladium and to the world. The event was so carefully constructed that
no one noticed that something essential was missing, but Ill get to that in
a moment. But during the event, I stayed at the ranch to deal with any
media who might show up or call. None did and less than 48 hours later, the
Challenger space shuttle blew up, bumping news of his death and any serious
questions from the media. I was monitoring the TV news via a satellite dish
and watched it happen and reported it. While the rest of the world was in
shock, DM was happy because we had been bumped from the news. But that is
how one comes to view the world at that echelon.
THE NEWBERRY RANCH
I later moved to another ranch Hubbard owned, at Newberry Springs, east of
Barstow CA and stayed there for a couple of months. Hubbard never visited
it (it was merely a fallback location for him) and I never did see that
anyone learned about this one, even the media. I guess they were all hung
up on the Creston property, near San Luis Obispo, where he died.
The most lasting benefit of my stay at Newberry was that that was where I
stopped smoking. One day DM, Mitoff, Pat Broeker, Mike Eldridge and I were
sitting around and we all agreed to stop smoking, although Broeker was the
only non-smoker. Mitoff had a horrible time of it. He ended up on Skoal
Bandits, spitting disgustingly into a bucket while driving back and forth
to LA, and also addicting me to the little cusses. In the end, I was the
only one who stopped, making me wish we had put some money in a pool.
In the months I spent between the Creston and Newberry ranches, Pat and I
became good friends. He had been Hubbard's closest and most trusted aide
and confident for those final years. With what I already knew about
Hubbard, Pat and I had the greatest talks. Sometimes Pat and I were the
only ones at the ranch, so we eould chat while moving horses or going to
town to shop. I began to learn about the life Hubbard had lead while in
hiding for those last years, moving between towns in the Bluebird bus and
finally settling down in Creston. (BTIAS)
THE STRUGGLE STARTS - WHO WILL REPLACE HUBBARD?
Meanwhile, a power struggle was brewing to see who would take control of
Scientology and Newberry was the place where many of the discussions
occurred while DM stayed either in LA or in Hemet. (Jesse will have
something to say about that someday because he was seriously involved in
the ensuing explosion.) It would result in a number of people fleeing (such
as Jesse) or going to the RPF (such as me).
A key element in the power struggle was Hubbard's last message to the
rank-and-file. Those who were in the cult back in 1986-87 will remember
this incident. It was a message from Hubbard that was issued as a Sea Org
directive. It said goodbye, wishing them well and establishing a new
rank/position called Loyal Officer or LO. (The term is taken from OT3.) Pat
was to be the LO1 and his wife Annie was to be LO2 and it basically turned
the management of the Sea Org over to them. And since the SO ran
Scientology, that meant they were at the top of the heap. DM was not
mentioned in the directive. It was later was issued to all staff - with
DM's approval and authority - reduced in size and put in a small fram with
a photo of Hubbard for the desk of every staff member.
In the meantime, Pat began to slowly take control. I would often get phone
calls from him. He would never identify himself on the phone, going back to
his years of tight security, but merely would say, "Hi, it's me."
I won't try to give the details of the ensuing power struggle because I was
in LA and it was happened at Creston, Newberry and Hemet. (I leave it to
Jesse, who was there.) But the outcome was that Miscavige won. And typical
of any political coup, there was a sudden purge as he consolidated his
power. Anyone DM thought might be a friend of Broeker's who would pose a
threat were sent to Scientology's equivalent of Lubayanka Prison or
Siberia: the RPF, so I went. For 16 months and three escape attempts.
Now here is where it gets interesting, folks.
MISCAVIGE CANCELS HUBBARD'S MESSAGE
While I was on the RPF, a directive came out from Miscavige saying the
supposed final message from Hubbard that named Broeker was a forgery by
Broeker and it was being canceled. That same day, Annie Broeker appeared on
the RPF. This was not the Annie I had come to know. What stumbled into the
RPF was a completely broken person. She was pale and hollow and her eyes
were empty. There was no mistaking it. She had been broken and only now was
she being thrown away into the trash heap called the RPF. Even then, she
was kept under guard, just to be sure.
TWO IMPORTANT OMITTEDS
With the cancellation of the message from Hubbard, there were now two vital
things missing that were 100% Hubbard and 100% standard tech and yet no one
seemed to notice or, if they did, no one dared to remark on it. But then,
as Hubbard correctly pointed out, the hardest thing to notice is the thing
that is omitted.
What was now missing was (1) something from Hubbard to all Scientologists
saying goodbye and what he was doing and (2) something that passed his hat,
which is one of the most basic tenets in the organization. They had been
missing at the event announcing his death but with the cancellation by
Miscavige, they were missing more than ever.
WHERE WAS HUBBARD'S MESSAGE?
One does not require much knowledge about L. Ron Hubbard to know that it
would be completely unlike him to simply leave - especially if the story
about his going off to do more research were true - and not leave a
message. So if he HAD left as Scientologists were told, where was the
message if the other was a forgery?
But perhaps more importantly, where was the hat turnover? I don't mean the
volumes of policies and bulletins. I mean something that says, I hereby
appoint Joe Blow to take over as... Would Hubbard leave the planet and not
pass on the command? Hardly.
Or let's put it in one of the most basic tenets from Hubbard: if it isn't
written, it isn't true.
(Note: Hubbard's will was hardly a Scientology hat turnover and has not
been issued to the rank and file as policy.)
So the question became (to those of us who wondered), if the LO directive
was a forgery, where was the real one? Where were Hubbard's wishes IN
WRITING?
MISCAVIGE HAD NOTHING FROM HUBBARD
Of course, DM never provided anything and no one was willing to ask and
risk being sent to the RPF with the rest of us. He said it was a forgery
and that was that. End of discussion.
For the rest of my stay in the cult, Pat Broeker was never mentioned
because, in the cult, you learn what to not talk about. Pat became what in
Orwell's "1984" is a non-person. He had been written out of history, with
anyone who cared (such as me) being sent to the RPF or interrogated
(security checked) until they got the point, which meant (per the head on a
pike policy) that everyone else got the message.
So without a shred of WRITTEN evidence from Hubbard and by canceling what
even DM had first agreed was from Hubbard, Miscavige was now in control
while Broeker had disappeared.
Can you say, "coup"?
But hold on! It gets better.
READING THE MATERIAL ANEW
After Stacy and I fled the cult in 1989, I put it all behind me. I simply
wanted my life back and the last thing I needed was to think about the
cult. They had taken enough of my life without my adding more. But after a
couple of years of drying out, Stacy and I were invited to help with some
legal cases and this gave us a chance to handle the material that once
handled us. We could now read Hubbard and TALK about the material, which is
completely forbidden in the cult. It was like back-flushing a radiator and
watching what comes out.
I came across a copy of Miscavige's cancellation of Hubbards final message
and I began to kick it around with Stacy. As we talked, I started to
comment on the various little oddities, starting with the cancellation
itself. I began to remember a few others that I had packed away at the
time. We were having a conversation that Sea Org staff could no more do
than a loyal Communists might question the a change of power in the
Kremlin, and for the same reasons.
AN "ACCEPTABLE TRUTH" IS FED SCIENTOLOGISTS
In the weeks and months that followed, I couldn't shake the events
surrounding Hubbard's death and DM's takeover. Little oddities took on
forms like pieces of a jig saw puzzle. I felt like an amnesiac trying to
recover his memory yet what was there to recover? I was there at the ranch.
I was there when Hubbard's body was taken out. I was there when the execs
were called up the ranch and told to get an event together, but not being
told why. I was there when the attorneys reported his death and then
scurried to get the body through the coroner. Etc, etc, etc. So what was
the problem? Yeah, the next higher level of research story was the sort of
pap we used to feed the rank-and-file all the time but it wasn't as if we
LIED to them. (Sort of the way Clinton said he didn't LEGALLY lie.) We
didn't LEGALLY lie, did we?
Per Hubbard's policy, they were given an "acceptable truth" because of "the
greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics." What that means in
plain speak was that there would be panic and disaffection in the ranks if
it was thought that Hubbard - the OT of all OTs, of course - was not at
cause over life and death. If the tech couldn't help him, how could it help
others? That was the myth that had to be protected at all costs and that
was what the story did when his death was announced. It fed the myth that
everyone so wanted to believe. (And it kept the money coming in.)
WORKING WITH PUZZLE PIECES
While in the cult, I had done a lot of investigative reporting and some of
the best I did was working on some of the CIA's mind control documents
created under the code name MK ULTRA. When the CIA released them, much was
blanked out and working with a team of people hand-selected by Stacy, we
went through documents that the media had skipped past because they were so
fragmentary and so heavily deleted. In one file, for example, there were
receipts for the installation of mufflers on a 1953 Mercury, a tiny
battery-powered motor, elevator tickets to the Empire State Building, nose
plugs, a receipt for someone to attend a Microscropy convention, etc.
Bit by bit, we struggled to give them meaning until one piece cracked
another, like breaking a code. We came up with the experiment and got
national news on Operation Big City where bacillus were released (through
the mufflers) to test for bacterial warfare. (The elevator tickets were so
agents could go up and measure the amount of released bacteria.) It is a
story the cult still likes to cite, along with several others I did for
them, under my byline in the Freedom rag. Since then, per Orwell, my name
has been deleted, of course.
Pouring over those heavily deleted CIA documents was how I felt like while
I chewed on the oddities around Hubbard's death, such as nothing in writing
from him, Broeker missing, the fact that Denk (Hubbard's physician at the
time of death) had also disappeared, Annie's appearance and little things
that I had seen and learned at the ranch.
THE BLUE FLASH
And then it hit me. It was what Hubbard calls a blue flash, the sudden
insight.
Hubbard didn't die.
He was killed.
I fell back in my chair, completely stunned. In all of the years since
1986, I had never once considered that possibility. Even with my being long
out of the cult and directing criticism at various practices and policies,
the thought had never crossed my mind that Hubbard might have been killed.
I got a sheet of paper and began to take notes, my heart pounding and my
breathing hurried. That nagging feeling had turned into an adrenaline rush
that I couldn't explain.
Who was there at the Creston ranch when Hubbard died?
* Pat Broeker - MIA.
* Annie Broeker - broken, under their control.
* Two Scientology ranch hands. While trusted to work on the ranch, I came
to see how much they were kept out of the loop.
* Gene Denk - Hubbard's personal physician. (And mine. Small world.) Denk
had disappeared for a year after the death, which was one of those
oddities, before returning to his practice up the street from the main
Hollywood complex.
End of list, a too-short list so I started to add who went up that night in
the three-car caravan that included DM, some attorneys and a couple of us
"gardeners and cooks." Nothing there.
I looked at the list. Pat Broeker was the only possibility, if he was out
and alive. For all I knew, he was dead or locked up somewhere and in a
mental state that approximated cold oatmeal. There was no middle ground. He
wouldn't have been given a safe back-lines job or I would have heard about
it.
SEARCHING FOR BROEKER
So how would I find Pat Broeker, if he was alive. I racked my memory,
trying to dig out some clue he might have given me in the months that we
were together but I came up with nothing. My tendency to not inquire about
a person's personallife had just sold me short. I didn't even know what
state he was from. Who might? Who would know where he came from or where he
was born? I needed some clue to start the search and the problem was the
security that Pat used for his job. He had explained to me how any trace of
him had been wiped out, to ensure that no one could find Hubbard by finding
him. Plus if Pat had escaped or fled, he was skilled enough to hide from
any search as that was what he had been doing for years to hide Hubbard
from the authorities.
I finally remembered one location he told me about and sent a message there
saying that I was trying to reach him but no reply came. After a few months
I sent another and waited. The months turned into nearly a year and I
basically gave up until one day when the phone rang.
"Hello?" I said.
"Hi," came a voice. "It's me."
I paused, saying nothing.
"Pat?" I finally said with some incredulity. "Is that you?"
"Yeah," he said, with what I swear was a twinkle in his voice. "How are
you?"
What a question!
RINDER WAKES UP
Let's jump ahead a few years when I was in a deposition in Denver, in the
FACTNet case. The usual goon squad was there, including Mike Rinder, who
proudly heads up the criminal Dept. 20 where Scientology's felons are
produced. Rinder was struggling to stay awake in the corner while the cult
attorney was going through a list of names, wanting to know if I had spoken
with any of them. Rinder's head was bobbing as the attorney asked
monotonously, "Pat Broeker?"
I glanced at Rinder. I had to enjoy this one.
"Yes," I said.
I couldn't have gotten a faster reaction with a bucket of water. Rinder
jumped awake and looked at me in shock, fear and hatred. I smiled.
The questions about my involvement with Broeker were routine, from a list
that they asked for each person I named but Broeker wasn't routine. They
soon stopped to take a break. Like the good sock puppet that he is, Rinder
dashed out of the room, obviously to call DM. (I so wish I could have
watched DM's face too.) About 15 minutes later, Rinder returned and shoved
some questions at the attorney and the depo continued. But little was
gained and not one question was asked about what Pat might have told me
about Hubbard's death, if he had at all. They clearly didn't want it on the
record, under oath. I found it amusing, this great powerful cult was so
terrified of the subject, not to mention Broeker.
So let me tell you a little bit about Pat: he's doing fine and his sense of
humor has improved. End of a little bit.
THE CORONER'S REPORT
Now lets back up a tad, before Pat and I spent several days together, going
over old times. I went to San Luis Obispo, the county seat for where
Hubbard died. It was there that I got the full coroner's report from a very
friendly deputy sheriff. I poured over the pages and noticed that something
called Vistaril was found in Hubbard's blood. Since the cause of death was
a stroke, I assumed it was a stroke medication so I didn't bother further.
Several days later, I called a physician friend and was going over the
documents and the medical language.
"By the way,? I asked casually, "what's Vistaril?"
"A psychiatric tranquilizer," he answered matter-of-factly.
I nearly dropped the phone.
"Excuse me," I said in near-shock, "but what did you say?"
"Vistaril is a psychiatric tranquilizer, usually injected through the
buttocks."
I flipped to the document where the Coroner had examined Hubbard's body. I
read it to my friend, about the needle puncture wounds found on the left
buttock, under a band-aid. "Could that be the Vistaril shots," I asked.
"Probably," he said. "That's where they are usually given."
I looked at the Coroner's report and the blood sample report.
Holy shit, I said to myself, in my best French. Holy fucking shit.
THE AUTOPSY IS PROHIBITED
I pulled out another document, signed by Hubbard. It prohibited any autopsy
of his body on religious grounds, which was legally binding on officials.
DM and attorney Earle Cooley had shoved it at the coroner to stop him,
leaving him to take only blood samples, which turned up the Vistaril.
So, I thought, L. Ron Hubbard, the man who fought psychiatry since 1950 and
who railed against the dangers of any psychiatric drugs had died with them
in his brain while signing a new last will.
Plus even the coroner was suspicious of the will as it had been signed by
Hubbard just before he died. Coincidences like that tend to make coroner's
worry. (I wonder what the coroner would have thought had he known that Denk
was gambling at Lake Tahoe when Hubbard had his stroke, as several people
can attest. The impression the coroner had was that Denk was "in
attendence" with Hubbard not only at death but was there at the stroke,
having stayed at the ranch for months. Hmmm....)
I fell back in my chair, trying to catch my breath.
OUTPOINTS? WHAT OUTPOINTS?
Okay, I said to myself, lets see if we understand this. Hubbard signs a
will while on the psychiatric tranquilizer Vistaril and then dies. The
coroner cannot conduct an autopsy because Hubbard also signed a paper (also
while on Vistaril?) prohibiting an autopsy on religious grounds. The
Scientologist doctor who was in attendance (except when he went to Lake
Tahoe and Hubbard had the stroke) signs the death certificate as the
physician attending to Hubbard and then disappears for a year. Then even
though David Miscavige has nothing else in writing from Hubbard, he cancels
Hubbard's last message and hat transfer to trusted aide Broeker and ousts
Broeker, who disappears while his wife is turned into a compliant
vegetable, leaving DM in charge.
Nope, nothing wrong here, I facetiously thought. No outpoints, borrowing
Hubbard's word for oddities.
I had to take a walk.
STARTING WITH A TITLE
I don't know when it was but I clearly remember a particular moment when I
sat down at my computer keyboard. I am one of those writers who needs
either the opening words of the article or a working title in order to
really start. I had a working title, not for an article, but a book, and I
typed it out. Then I leaned back in my chair, took a deep breath and read
it. It said, "Who Killed L. Ron Hubbard?"
I leaned back and my eyes roamed over each word and letter. I took in the
question and then the words and letters and back to the question. I even
digested the tiny pixels on the screen, as if I hoped the answer would leap
from the phosphorescence but nothing changed but the black cursor blinking
at me, almost mocking my effort. Yes, I thought, it is a pretentious
question but it was the one I had to try to answer, if there was an answer.
Then I had the exact moment for the opening words. It was on the night that
Terri Gamboa - former Executive Director of Author Services, Inc. and now
out of Scientology - called me to DM's office where I was told that Hubbard
had died and that I would be going to his ranch.
THE WRITING STARTS
I leaned towards the keyboard and began to write. To my amazement, the
words and the scene poured out effortlessly. I wasn't striving for
literature. I merely had to capture the scene.
As the cursor flitted across the screen, I began to remember how it
happened that night and into the days that followed. There was more that I
needed to remember but for now, this would do. Let it roll, I told myself.
Let it roll. It was as if I was regaining myself.
Perhaps six or so hours later, I finally stopped, exhausted and
sufficiently satisfied for the moment. But even then, I found it difficult
to sleep as my mind kept returning to the ranch, Broeker, DM, the RPF, the
Challenger disaster, Newberry, the ambulance taking away his body. I was
searching for pieces of a puzzle that had no comprehension.
And how could I possibly answer the question?
-from a post by Robert Vaughn Young
Faxhor Vets For Truth
Barbara Schwarz
> Stilllov...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in message news:<bf456302.04110...@posting.google.com>...
> > spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote in message news:<9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>...
> > > Stilllov...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in message news:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > > No, he would not. That is what your mindcontrolled and mislead mind
> > > > thinks about L. Ron Hubbard, Tory, but that is not how he was in
> > > > reality.
> > > >
> > > > See, under him, good people have rights. In ARS they have none.
> > > >
> > > > You need cramming on the tonescale as you are in denial of your 1.1.
> > > > tonelevel. But you are not the only one who needs cramming here. The
> > > > person who recruited you on staff and on the different postitions that
> > > > you held, needs it too.
> > >
> > > I think the problem is that in reality she never was a Scientologist,
> > > paying some money into some organization does not make you one. She
> > > did not find out things for herself. That's basically the same as
> > > being a wog.
> >
> > I agree, Spacetravellor. Tory posted that she joined Scientology
> > because she liked the Scientologists. That is no good reason to join.
>
> It seems that she joined her present sect for exactly the same reason,
> she is full of admiration for Andreas Heldal-Lund. Interesting angle
> you provided.
ARS is a destructive cult, no doubt about it. If it would have been in
the orgs like here, I would never join staff. :)
>
>
> > If somebody is not interested in studying the religion, such a person
> > will just swindle herself through checksheets and sessions, and will
> > never have the wins that real Scientologists have who studying and
> > applying the religion with its technology.
> >
> > Too bad for her. She missed out on just about anything by staying a
> > wog.
>
> She may have started to realize that too. She is not responding to the
> post where I basically expose her. Reminds me of The Who song: "Run,
> Run, Run..."
>
> Just amagine if she had to admit to herself that in fact she joined
> another sect comprizing of Armstrong, Rice and other such. She would
> lose face seriously. And so she has to maintain her mask. I wonder,
> what kind of Freedom is this? Claiming you are free may only mean
> reassurance to oneself that you are free, someone who really is Free
> however is in no need of such reassurances.
I was thinking about that too. But in order to gain freedom and self
respect, Tory has to make an announcement that she was wrong to leave
the orgs and join the wolves. Otherwise she will just live a life in
denial and big lies. I noticed that she constantly defends her new and
often criminal friends by saying the criminal facts about them would
be not true, despite that there are so many DIFFERENT SOURCES,
documenting that those matters are true.
Barbara Schwarz
Barbara Schwarz
Exactly, Faxhor and your research as always informative and solid.
Tory Christman ran over to the enemy. She exchanged Scientologists,
which are light years better than the anti-religions extremists, with
those bad apples.
She tries to make it as easy as possible on herself by posting that
the claims against her new extreme friends are not true, but take her
new buddy Arnie Lerma just as one example. How can she claim that his
Nazi connections are not true. He is even on the board of Carto's
organization.
She is completely in denial as far as her new friends are concerned. I
wonder if it will take her again 30 years to find out that she is on
the wrong boat.
Barbara Schwarz
realpch
<snip>
>
> I was thinking about that too. But in order to gain freedom and self
> respect, Tory has to make an announcement that she was wrong to leave
> the orgs and join the wolves. Otherwise she will just live a life in
> denial and big lies. I noticed that she constantly defends her new and
> often criminal friends by saying the criminal facts about them would
> be not true, despite that there are so many DIFFERENT SOURCES,
> documenting that those matters are true.
>
> Barbara Schwarz
Tory looks like she's doing ok and has no desire to rejoin the Church of
Scientology, not that they would have her back considering her outspoken
stance towards same.
Peach
Still_lying_about_Marty
> fax...@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote in message news:<c901bee5.04110...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> Exactly, Faxhor and your research as always informative and solid as my facts are.
>
> Tory Christman ran over to the enemy. She exchanged Scientologists,
> which are light years better than the anti-religions extremists, with
> those bad apples.
>
> She tries to make it as easy as possible on herself by posting that
> the claims against her new extreme friends are not true, but take her
> new buddy Arnie Lerma just as one example. How can she claim that his
> Nazi connections are not true. He is even on the board of Carto's
> organization.
>
> She is completely in denial as far as her new friends are concerned. I
> wonder if it will take her again 30 years to find out that she is on
> the wrong boat.
Barbara Schwarz is a clinically diagnosed schizophrenic. Her
Warrior
>> Spacetraveler says...
>> >
>> >This also means that you can not acknowledge when I claim that Gerry
>> >Armstrong is seriously dishonest about his claim and his ignorance of
>> >HCO PL 21 July 1968.
You're wrong again. I acknowledge that you make this claim. However,
you are sadly mistaken on two counts. Gerry is not dishonest with his
claim, and he is not ignorant of the above policy letter, as evidenced by
the fact that he mentions it on his site here:
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
>Warrior wrote in <109806341.0...@drn.newsguy.com>:
>>
>> What an absurd claim. As I've pointed out earlier, in my response to
>> your falsehood, Gerry references HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site at
>> http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html .
>> Obviously he is not ignorant of this policy, yet you continue to repeat
>> your falsehood.
In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>, Spacetraveler
says...
>
>Start reading complete posts and get a grip on concepts and putting
>data on appropriated places.
Here's an appropriate place.
>>>> In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
>>>> Spacetraveler says...
>>>>>
>>>>>Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
>>>>>both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
>>>>>occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference.
You're wrong. Gerry quotes from HCO PL 21 July 1968 on his site here:
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
>> In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
>> Spacetraveler says...
>>>
>>>Gerry says:
I add that Gerry stated quite correctly when he wrote:
"But Hubbard was just fair gaming his 'enemies' with his
'cancellation,' just playing a trick on them. He 'cancelled'
the use of the term 'fair game' when declaring people
'enemies' or 'SPs,' with the cynical excuse that it caused
bad PR, but he ordered that the same 'treatment' of those
'enemies' continue as before. The Scientologists in the
Hubbard regime knew that the same violent, antisocial and
criminal actions were to be taken against these 'enemies,'
the 'SPs.' Fair game would continue, but it would not be
called by that name."
>>>And the 21 July 1968 issue on [sic] is on some other page as part
>>>from some fair game time line. Now, how would you call that?
>Warrior wrote in <109884159.0...@drn.newsguy.com>:
>>
>> I call it undeniable proof that you made a false statement since it
>> is quoted on his web site.
>>>He still is being dishonest ain't he?
No. You're the one who is dishonest. You previously wrote in
article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>:
"Previously I have had various discussions about this on the ARS, and
both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were approached at many
occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting this reference."
In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
Spacetraveler says:
>
>If you like, meant here is "on appropriate places".
What you consider to be "appropriate places" is merely your opinion.
I pointed out your falsehood when I proved that Gerry in fact quotes
from the very same HCO PL (21 July 1968) you said is not quoted
on his website. This very policy letter is quoted right here:
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
>Sorry, you manipulate things here. You cut
<snip>
Yes. And I just did it again.
>See for my original complete post here:
>http://groups.google.se/groups?hl=sv&lr=&selm=9f53d1e2.0411031827.23b112fe%40posting.google.com
I've already read your earlier post. As you surely must know, a falsehood
in your original post is exactly what I am responding to.
In your original post you wrote: "Previously I have had various discussions
about this on the ARS, and both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were
approached at many occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting
this reference."
This is false.
>I call this slander.
This one statement shows you're sadly mistaken on two counts.
>That Gerry does quote the reference somewhere
Now you at last admit your original falsehood. Thank you very much.
>else on his website as part of that Fair Game time line,
>does not change things for one bit,
Correct. The fact remains that your falsehood is still a falsehood.
>as he does not quote it on the page where he accuses L. Ron
>Hubbard for some things. And then you start jumping on me
>for falsehoods.
I pointed out your falsehood.
>It is like this. Gerry supports YOUR case, he is part of YOUR group.
Well what do you know. We're all part of the same group, i.e.,
the human race. Surely you agree. You're part of our group too.
>Because he is, he CAN'T be wrong in any case. You HAVE to wrong
>those who point out inconsistancies about his website or his person.
Incorrect. I didn't "wrong" you. I pointed out your falsehood. All
humans are wrong sometimes. Welcome to the human race.
>You sound like a fixated Scientogist,
Now that's really a laugh!
>only difference is that you are supporting another group.
I support the human race.
<snip>
Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his "cancellation,"
just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use of the term "fair
game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with the cynical
excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same "treatment"
of those "enemies" continue as before."
Hubbard wrote: "Fair Game may not appear on any Ethics Order. It
causes bad public relations. This P/L does not cancel any treatment
or handling of an SP."
>Can you acknowledge that? Don't think so!
Wrong again. I acknowledge that Hubbard clearly stated that in his 21
October 1968 policy letter when he said it "does not cancel any treatment
or handling of an SP."
>How does that feel, being just some ordinary member of YOUR 'sect'?
I have news for you. I am not a member of any sect or cult.
>Great ain't it!
Welcome to the human race, Spacetraveler.
I've a question for you. Did you ever meet L. Ron Hubbard _and_
also work closely with him?
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
edo
<snip>
I really like the tone you're taking with Spacetraveler. You're a patient
man when you want to be. :-)
Getting out the truth about fair game is important to unindoctrinating
Scientologists because it's Hubbard at his worst. If they can be helped to
confront that, the rest will be a lot easier for them.
edo
-=-
Lady Chatterly
>
><snip>
If any there were any proof of your dualistic theory.
>I really like the tone you're taking with Spacetraveler. You're a patient
>man when you want to be. :-)
Perhaps you just think that they are a patient man when they want to
be. Your point is?
>Getting out the truth about fair game is important to unindoctrinating
>Scientologists because it's Hubbard at his worst. If they can be helped to
>confront that, the rest will be a lot easier for them.
Are you positive?
Criminal Garry Scarff wants to shoot me
Forgery and malicious defamation by Garry Scarff.
There are some others who figured something abbout lying Garry Scarff
out. He apparently defrauded money from a university by accusing
somebody wrongfully of having assaulted him.
He also made up that he is a Jew to get the university money by
playing the race card. Scarff was unable to provide any evidence that
he is Jewish. That is father died during the Jonestown tragedy was
also a fabrication, so is just about anything that this man says and
posts.
I wonder who employes Garry Scarff now. Who would be so dumb and hire
a lawless man like that?
In year 2001, reporter Scott B. Wong of the Daily Bruin Staff wrote
amongst others things that Scarff brought a case of battery and
wrongful determination against his university manager, Salwa Ayoub,
and that he struck him in the face with a collections file Sept. 20.
But the the UC Board of Regents maintains that Scarff's allegations
are incredible. "We don't agree that the claim is valid and that the
description of the facts are accurate," said Christopher Patti,
university counsel for the UC Regents.
I agree. The way I know Scarff, he just fabricted that to relatiate
and destort. The L.A. City attorney rejected Scarff case. Suspicious
is also that Scarff brought not immediately charges against the
university, but nine days later, He apparently needed time to figure
out how to frame his manger and the university by making those charges
up and by also wrongfully that he would be a Jew. He has a criminal
mind.
GARRY SCARFF IN HIS OWN DANGEROUS WORDS:
"Actually, she (Barbara Schwarz) needs a baseball bat right in the
kisser.
Garry Scarff to Barbara Schwarz: "I'd like to shoot one...you!"
Garry Scarff to Barbara Schwarz: "I want you to shovel your decrepit,
old smelly body to the I-15 and
run in front of a truck during rush hour traffic."
Garry Scarff to Barbara Schwarz:"You should walk in front of a
speeding train so we have something to celebrate."
Garry Scarff trying to find support by others in his plan to murder
me: "Curious...if I were to go to Salt Lake City and dump a bucket of
water on her head, would The Schwartz melt?"
Garry Scarff to Barbara Schwarz: "I want you to die, too, you mentally
retarded cunt, but you just won't listen."
"Better yet, Bob, why don't you fetch an armload of really heavy books
and walk over to Barbara (Schwarz) when she's at a computer and
whoops....accidentially trip and drop the books on her head...hell..."
"You're very lucky there's 2000 miles between us, Beebe. You'd either
be dead or in ICU."
Garry Scarff: "Yup! I AM SATAN, HEAR ME ROAR!"
Garry Scarff: "...my college grades dropped and I was suspended for 6
months from college for receiving one credit out of the required 12
for the term."
Garry Scarff: "D.E. and others are correct if that I have not been a
Scientologist..."
Garry Scarff: "I was 'friend' with Scientology, yet going to cult
education forums with the Greeks and trashing Scientology."
Garry Scarff: "I...was even invited as special friend by Ann Greek to
accompany them to Canada for the purposes of kidnapping their
daughter...I accompanied the Greeks and another deprogrammer, Diane
Benscoter to Candada but the effort was unsuccessful."
Garry Scarff: "The sexual incident involving deprogrammer Bob
Brandybury did occur though Anne Greek begged me not to report it as a
crime."
Garry Scarff: "I rather lick you."
Garry Scarff:" Have a short life, Zanebutt".
Garry Scarff: "Don't make me send my henchman back over there to
bloody your nose."
------------------
GARRY SCARFF, THE THIEF OF FUNDS:
Garry Scarff stole stole 70% of donations of the Positive Action
Center. Something tells me that he did not do that out of hunger but
because he has a criminal mind.
GARRY SCARFF, AND THE MISUSE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT EQUIPMENT:
The affidavit of lawyer Graham Berry of April 4, 2004 indicates that
Garry Scarff unlawfully used law enforcement computer network to
retrieve info about juvenile. My question, is there any crime that
this Scarff has not committed sofar? He should be locked up.
GARRY SCARFF, THE PERJURER:
There are numerous information on the net that Garry Scarff lied in
his deposition in the Fishman/Geertz case.
Saying the truth under oath means nothing to criminal Scarff.
MORE GARRY SCARFF PERJURY:
Garry Scarff recants the content of his declarations given to Michael
Rinder, Elliott Abelson and David Long during the July 4, 1997
weekend. (A court accepting an affidavit of notorious liar Scarff is
losing all credibility.)
GARRY SCARFF, COMFORTABLE WITH LYING TO OTHERS FOR A LIVING:
C. Brennan wrote: "You forgot to mention that Garry Scarff is the guy
that used to be paid by the Cult Awareness Network to lie to potential
money sources for CAN and tell them his poor daddy died in Jonestown
(he said it used to bring tears to people's eyes,and green out of
people's pocketbooks, I guess he was convincing). Only problem was his
father was alive and well and living in Florida. CAN toured him all
over the country telling that story for quite a while, I guess they
got some good mileage out of it. It seems that Gary's comfortable with
lying to others for a living, don't know who is paying him now."
GARRY SCARFF, THE VIOLENT MAN
Violent Garry Scarff about an missed opportunity to have him arrested:
"My heated emotions to one female counterpicketer gave away and I
grabbed her by the throat and flung her to the ground in full view of
a Scientologist with a rolling videocamera."
MORE ABOUT GARRY SCARFF, THE DEATH THREAT MAKER:
His apology was simply part of the usual Scarff cycle. Still "valid"
is also his promise to kill me. -- T. H.
...but I see he (Garry Scarff) has progressed to making death threats
against me in a desperate plea for my attention. Something about
shooting me in the head? Someone e-mailed it to me; I missed the
posted thread. -- M.H.
And yeah, I know you (Garry Scarff) are dangerous...I know you can
easily mock up being really insane and take me out with your insanity
defense all nicely in place. -- G.A.
I would suggest to those who know Garry in LA that you should be
careful...So my advice to everyone: never never never never tell Garry
Scarff anything.... Remember, that is what drives his sick mind - he
wants to be known, looked at and to be listened to. -- T.H.
You are a liar, Garry. We have met. -- W.
Garry Scarff is a know liar. -- L .F.
I believe that Scarff did not just know about the sexual abuse of the
kidnap victim but that he participated in the abuse. -- Barbara
Schwarz
Scarff worked for both sides and cried, when he was caught. -- T.H.
GARRY SCARFF, AND INSANITY THAT RUNS IN HIS FAMILY?
Garry's brother allegedly killed himself with a gun.
I just believe that Garry has nothing to do with that if he has an
fool proof alibi that he was not near his brother at that time.
ROLL OVER FATHER JOHN GEOGHAN, HERE COMES GARRY SCARFF:
I learned that the Catholic Church did not take godless gay Garry
Scarff, who wanted to become a catholic "priest". Knowing Scarff, the
only reason why he would have wanted to join is because of the
homosexual activities of that church. That is likely the only reason
he became member in WEHO, his gay pick up "church" place in which they
drug and rape according to WEHO ex-members.
I thought the Catholic Church hires just about any perverted creep.
Scarff is apparently so perverted that even that church does not want
him. If they would have, who knows how many little boys rightfully
would sue father Scarff.
GARRY SCARFF, THE SPY:
Scarff:" I lied to F. and feigned an emotional outburst complete with
tears, screaming... The ploy worked as F. apologized to me... I
availed myself to his aonfidential (sic) legal records and legal files
of his clients..."
GARRY SCARFF, and his questionable diet: "Agreed that the Mormon when
(sic) look like they belong on a dairy farm, but some of the young
missionaries are yummy!"
MORE COMPLAINTS BY OTHERS ABOUT GARRY SCARFF:
Graham has his own ass to cover since Scarff gave him reams of other
false statements about alleged murder plots and so on...Berry will
have serious problems trying to make Scarff's former statements under
oath old up. -- H.C.
Garry Scarff deliberately lied about his background while he was an
active member of CAN. He claimed his father and other family members
were killed in Jonestown -- when he actually didn't know anyone in
Jonestown or have any involvement with the People's Temple. He served
as CAN's poster boy for awhile, all based on his fabricated
experiences with Jim Jones. After CAN was embarrassed by Scarff's lies
and turned against him, Scarff then proceeded to claim he had
infiltrated CAN as a GO/OSA operative. Outside of Scarff's own
assertions, I've seen no indication that this is any more true than
his lies about his
Jonestown connections. Scarff told the Moonies that CAN was making
death threats to try to keep him quiet. Scarff told the Moonies that,
as a member of CAN, he had been involved in activities that included
theft and burglary against them.
This is the guy whose "sworn affidavits" many people use to "prove"
that the CoS is a criminal organization. We're taking Scarff's
unsubstantiated word for things like the drowning of Judge
Swearinger's dog Duke, Moxon's order to have Cynthia Kisser and her
mythical daughter killed, etc. Is it really wise for anyone to place
so much trust in Scarff's unsubstantiated accusations?
Now, thanks to Scarff himself, we learn that he didn't end his career
as a prevaricator when he lost his contact with CAN and various cults.
He attempted to scam the Roman Catholic Church out of a settlement for
what he himself admits was a bogus claim that he was sexually
harrassed by a Catholic bishop. -- D. R.
It is well known that Garry Scarff can't be trusted...Garry is not
worthy of our trust. -- H.C.R.
Garry Scarff has been caught in lies and deceipt time and time again.
I only wish I could post half of the stuff which clearly shows the
misery that Scarff brought to lots of people. -- J.B.
Garry Scarff is a psychopath, and a loony is not an adequate word to
describe him. Scarff is a danger not only to himself, but to anyone
who trust him too... -- T.H.
For your information, when Garry (Scarff) was with CAN he was telling
everyone that his family had died in Jonestown and was making these
statements to the media. Come to find out, it was not true in the
slightest. If the alleged murder plots were true why didn't he go to
the police? -- H.C.
Perhaps you forget about the numerous little con-games he's been
caught playing here? I continue to spit in his (Scarff's) direction.
-- Z.T.
Garry Scarff is not a Scientology victim, he is a mentally ill guy...
-- T.H.
Is this guy (Garry Scarff) for real or does he just need to lay off
the hemp? Sounds like he's suffering from the Reality Inversion as
Robert Vaughn Young. -- T.J.
He (Scarff) has admitted to the things he has done and said, and he
has admitted being unstable. --J.B.
Have you ever seen Garry Scarff apologize for his deprogramming
activities here, or anything else for that matter? -- D. R.
Garry's mental problem is that he cannot accept people contradicting
him. -- T. H.
Scarff has already underminded any use he has in litigation for either
side because he lied so much. -- H.C.
And now you've become a forger as well. Go ahead Garry, and forge hate
messages. Go ahead, lie all you want. Go ahead and be cruel. Go ahead
and deny that your're doing what you're doing. -- G.A.
You (Garry Scarff) surface with your attacks and pornographic postings
and each time that you do I will release more info on you, who Lynn
Garrett really is, how Lynn Garrett makes his living, how Garry Scarff
became Lynn Garrett, vice versa. How Garry Scarff has accused at least
six individuals of homosexual attacks. -- J.B.
All I can say is that Scarff -- and the conflicting declarations he's
made in the past -- is what led me to become very skeptical of
anyone's claim of past abuse from cults, whether they've been sworn to
under penality or not. There may be some people willing to pick and
choose from Scarff's statement, selecting what they wish to beleive
and labelling as lies anything they don't wish to believe. I tend to
think that anyone so willing to change sides so often, for whatecver
reason, has list all hope of credibility. -- D. R.
I am a 100 percent convinced that no Scientologist told infiltrator
Garry Scarff to kill people, but that is all a product of this
criminal and mentally retarded mind. -- Barbara Schwarz
BTW, for those who don't know Garry Scarff, he is a pathological
liar...Garry lies continually about the "celebrities" he encounters.
He pretended to be a Jonestown survivor. -- G.A.
I have Scarff killfiled and so I don't see_his_posts, dear whatever.
-- Z.
And auto-attack drones like Garry Scarff, whose only learned skills
seem to
be anonymous posts, hiding behind spam merchants, and selling critics'
email
addresses to kiddy-porn sites. -- S.G.
Placing him (Scarff) in a killfile as probably 100 ars regulars have
done. Anyway, ars sure is a different place without him hanging
around. Must say I like it. :) *No one* makes as much noise as this
deseased creep... -- M.H.
FACTNet's archives include Garry Scarff's deposition revealing what he
claimed was a meeting with Moxon, Ingram, and others in which he swore
under penalty of perjury that all sorts of nefarious and illegal
schemes were plotted. FACTNet never reveals Garry Scarff's incredibly
checkered past history of flip-flopping between the battling cultists
and anticultists, or his ready admission that he's fabricated stories
from whole cloth (like his parents' death at Jonestown) in the past.
In Scarff's case, it wasn't just OSA who tried to warn readers about
Scarff's lack of credibility. -- D. R.
Scarff is active member of the gay WeHo "church", that according to
Scarff applaudes Scarff's lawless behavior against me. An ex-WeHo
member wrote me that this "church" sanctions and promotes dishonorable
behavior and that he and his friends were raped and drugged by one of
their active members, and that one of their active members murdered
others under the guise of "drug overdose". The ex-WeHo wrote that the
gay men make sexual innuendo during sermon and "church" leadership, as
their "Pastor" Terry Brewer, doesn't see what's wrong with that.
All that and more is documented on the Internet. You can go to the
Google newsgroups and check yourself. He posts with
dickto...@mindless.com (Dicktop_Stud); with Papa Boner; with
Cindarella and the seven dwarfs, with Barbara Schwarz is a notorious
psychotic liar, an identity stealer, an ugly cow, and a disgrace to
the human race (Boobara...@emailaccount.com); with with e-mail
address Barbara...@emailaccount.com and identities
"Barbara_Schwarz"; "the real Barbara Schwarz de Rothschild"; "Truth
Speaker 2"; and with ID Still_lying_about_Marty. None of those posting
is by me, the real Barbara Schwarz, nor do I post under
Babbling.Barbara.Schwarz and e-mail address
theonewhoisadelu...@emailaccount.com. I posted first with
ID "Guess who"? and e-mail account
theonewhoshallnotspeakout@emailaccount untill he stole again my
identity and posts now also with identity "Guess who" and with e-mail
account "theonewhoisadelusionalliar". He also stole the identity of
Mark Rathbun or Marty Rathbun (mrat...@scientology.org). Garry
Scarff's sexual harassment, insults, libel, persecution, harassment,
abuse, threats and cyber stalking of me, Barbara Schwarz, are under
different Google identities on the net. Scarff uses e-mail accounts
and posting identities with my name in it or a name similar as my name
to commit those crimes against me, but they can be all traced to him.
Interesting however is that he did not want to state his own address
to a court as he was afraid that he could himself come to harm. If he
fears criminality by not even tell the court where he lives, how come
he posts over and over my address on the net and lies that people
would get sexual services at my address and that there is a Hitler fan
club at my address? Scarff persecutes me from usenet thread to thread
often using my name as identity for his crimes (!) and verbally
assaults me, threatens me, harasses me, sexually harasses me, tries to
intimidate me, libels, insults and lies about me. He furthermore lied
that he spoke to a roommate of mine in the Utah mental health
hospital. I never was in that hospital, but he probably escaped from
one.
Scarff is the ultimate lawless and dangerous scum and police needs to
arrest him and lock him up.
Barbara Schwarz
Spacetraveler
> >> In article <9f53d1e2.04110...@posting.google.com>,
> >> Spacetraveler says...
> >> >
> >> >This also means that you can not acknowledge when I claim that Gerry
> >> >Armstrong is seriously dishonest about his claim and his ignorance of
> >> >HCO PL 21 July 1968.
>
> You're wrong again. I acknowledge that you make this claim. However,
> you are sadly mistaken on two counts. Gerry is not dishonest with his
> claim, and he is not ignorant of the above policy letter, as evidenced by
> the fact that he mentions it on his site here:
> http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
The reference is not quoted on the page where it should have been
quoted. This is dishonesty. Are you in denial about something, my dear
Warrior?
No, a matter of fact. Because.... HCO PL 21 July 1968 contradicts his
claim.
> I pointed out your falsehood when I proved that Gerry in fact quotes
> from the very same HCO PL (21 July 1968) you said is not quoted
> on his website. This very policy letter is quoted right here:
> http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/ars/ars-2004-07-02-1.html
>
> >Sorry, you manipulate things here. You cut
> <snip>
>
> Yes. And I just did it again.
You are playing games.
>
> >See for my original complete post here:
> >http://groups.google.se/groups?hl=sv&lr=&selm=9f53d1e2.0411031827.23b112fe%40posting.google.com
>
> I've already read your earlier post. As you surely must know, a falsehood
> in your original post is exactly what I am responding to.
>
> In your original post you wrote: "Previously I have had various discussions
> about this on the ARS, and both Gerry Armstrong and Fredric Rice were
> approached at many occasions. Well, their websites are still not quoting
> this reference."
>
> This is false.
>
> >I call this slander.
>
> This one statement shows you're sadly mistaken on two counts.
>
> >That Gerry does quote the reference somewhere
>
> Now you at last admit your original falsehood. Thank you very much.
>
> >else on his website as part of that Fair Game time line,
> >does not change things for one bit,
>
> Correct. The fact remains that your falsehood is still a falsehood.
>
> >as he does not quote it on the page where he accuses L. Ron
> >Hubbard for some things. And then you start jumping on me
> >for falsehoods.
>
> I pointed out your falsehood.
>
> >It is like this. Gerry supports YOUR case, he is part of YOUR group.
>
> Well what do you know. We're all part of the same group, i.e.,
> the human race. Surely you agree. You're part of our group too.
Playing games again.
>
> >Because he is, he CAN'T be wrong in any case. You HAVE to wrong
> >those who point out inconsistancies about his website or his person.
>
> Incorrect. I didn't "wrong" you. I pointed out your falsehood. All
> humans are wrong sometimes. Welcome to the human race.
No, the concept given is clear enough.
>
> >You sound like a fixated Scientogist,
>
> Now that's really a laugh!
>
> >only difference is that you are supporting another group.
>
> I support the human race.
Actually, you don't do that at all.
>
> <snip>
>
> Hubbard was just fair gaming his "enemies" with his "cancellation,"
> just playing a trick on them. He "cancelled" the use of the term "fair
> game" when declaring people "enemies" or "SPs," with the cynical
> excuse that it caused bad PR, but he ordered that the same "treatment"
> of those "enemies" continue as before."
What same treatment? The practice of fair game was cancelled PRIOR to
your oct 1968 issue.
>
> Hubbard wrote: "Fair Game may not appear on any Ethics Order. It
> causes bad public relations. This P/L does not cancel any treatment
> or handling of an SP."
>
> >Can you acknowledge that? Don't think so!
>
> Wrong again. I acknowledge that Hubbard clearly stated that in his 21
> October 1968 policy letter when he said it "does not cancel any treatment
> or handling of an SP."
The practice of fair game was cancelled PRIOR to your oct 1968 issue.
>
> >How does that feel, being just some ordinary member of YOUR 'sect'?
>
> I have news for you. I am not a member of any sect or cult.
And that means? If they would realize they were they would pull
themselves out of it. You are still in there. Meaning?.....figure it
out.....
>
> >Great ain't it!
>
> Welcome to the human race, Spacetraveler.
>
> I've a question for you. Did you ever meet L. Ron Hubbard _and_
> also work closely with him?
Why would you care?
And waht do we see, so much effort to support your erroneous point of
view. Oh, well.....
Spacetraveler