Scientology driving for its final collapse
Phil Scott
The cult of scientology is back at its trash job attempts...
as in the late 90's ..... that resulted in its orgs going
empty and it becoming much more of a world wide pariah.
Orgs that used to sport 100 students in the chairs each
evening now sport 1 or 2. The cults gold base is being sold
off in peices, it sold its attached golf course a year or so
ago...and staff shuttles seen around gold base are much fewer
now... that staff is sent to the outer orgs to try and beef
them up...but those are not paying public.
The public is avoiding scientology like the plague it is.
in the 90's time frame the public press was intimidated into
silence to a large extent by law suits against Time Magazine
and others...since lost by scn...now the public press and
public figures are speaking out. We are getting now dozens of
articles and radio shows exposing scientology a year now.
More scientology's best people are now out and speaking up.
Yet scientoloyg has chosen to re-apply the same
failed trash job and lying tactics that brought them so low in
the first place.
thats not a real bright demonstration of what scientology does
for a person...or itself.
Phil Scott
www.lermanet.com
www.xenu.net
www.torymagoo.org
www.slatkinfraud,com
ewsnead
"Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
news:d8td3s$p79$1...@news.tdl.com...
The Scientology cult has been gradually painting itself into a corner since
the billowing of Hubbard's paranoia and advent of heavy ethics during the
1960's. Since then, it's never been a contestable issue whether the cult's
growth rate would initially stall and soon thereafter contract. Scientology
is a contradiction. By disavowing the past, relegating it to a scrapheap, it
manages no learning curve and cannot forge a coherent future. This could not
be any plainer; anyone following the cult's activities recognizes that
management policies are not founded upon the sort of considerations that
awould allow it any future. It exists strictly in the *now*. And it
magically believes that this *now* can continue indefinitely. The only
reason it has managed to stretch this illusion so far is through bullying,
intimidation and the fear capital generated through a well-earned reputation
for ruthlessness.
A discernible pattern has gradually emerged since the San Francisco
Missionholders Conference and subsequent near schism of '82, which initiated
the startling contraction of membership. With the exception of a couple of
decent years in terms of reclaiming some public, this loss of membership
continues unabated and may soon swell into a final crescendo. The pattern
assumes this form: with the remarkable exception of the IRS agreement, COS
has lost practically every legal battle waged through the court system, and
all its misconceived attempts at PR restoration through the media
manipulation have been an utter waste of time. The few victories to which it
may reasonably lay claim (I'm thinking of such rarities as getting Minton
out of the cult bashing business.) have been pyrrhic. Of late, the
trajectory of failure has become so conspicuous as to leave the indelible
impression that no matter what the cult does, it will continue to hemorhage
whatever minute amount of public favor it once upon a time managed to curry
through lies, payoffs to politicians, misleading front groups, Hollywood
shills, etcetera.
What we may be currently witnessing is the coming to fruition of the cult's
contradictions, to have a future without acknowledging a past and of its
perennial determination to always have it both ways, to be a religion and
yet be scientific (a ludicrous oxymoron), to be regarded favorably in the
public eye while taking criminal advantage of whatever social milieu with
which it manages to briefly insinuate itself, to announce to the world that
it has exclusive access to the deepest and most covetted secrets of
humankind and the universe while pandering shamelessly to the basest of
motivations by erecting a tasteless facade adorned with gloss, gold and
glitter.
The cult cannot go back. It cannot go forward. It can only stay where it is
in the same place and in the same fashion as it has always been. Stuck in
the frozen *now*. It is as good as dead. The best part is the spectacle of
its destruction, and the hard working critics at ars are among the lucky few
who have box seats to this gala event.
ewsnead
"Scientology: boldly challenging the MEST universe since 1953, with
decidedly mixed results."
>
>
>
>
Phil Scott
"ewsnead" <ewsn...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:W_udnbKarv4...@comcast.com...
How long do you give the currently blooming trash job on
critics posting ARS to last? I give it 6 months actually...
a long run...
accompanied by a geared up and expanded critical comunity and
org stats at rock bottom...not even a 'dead cat' bounce from
that pit....and with all the expose' and attention afforded by
Tom Cruise, another 20 million, now approaching most of the
first worlds population fully innoculated against any
scientology recruitment efforts.
Next will come a world wide real estate collapse...the cult
leading the parade, unable to pay its bills...and a
consolidation of orgs and missions into the currently
renovated edifices. mostly vacant.
Awaiting the return of L Rong Hubbard via his own recorded,
conjured and diseased Whore of Babalon...what a guy.
Phil Scott
.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Ravegirl
anymore...the gloves are off. Gossip columns around the globe are
openly referring to Jessica Rodriguez as Katie Holmes "cult minder" and
Florida's papers are republishing fact files. Web hits are up on
Clambake and other anti-Co$ sites. People around the world are
learning first hand--because Cruise and DM are trying a last-ditch
effort to push the "happy side" of Scientology down the world's
throat--about the truth of Xenu!
The Truth is Out There. And the press isn't scared anymore. People
are curious about the Church. People are interested in hearing why
Cruise is a whackjob, why Jenna Elfman gave such a weird-ass interview
about aliens, and why the local Scientology churches are falling
further and further into disrepair. Don't underestimate the enormous
power of watching the mighty fall from their great pedestals!
Ravegirl
wobbling pedestals that extra little push? cultxpt has created a great
"Free Katie" flyer (inspired by the fun, non-Scieno movement of the
same name) that lays out the facts in a really entertaining way, and I
thought I'd try posting it around the local Co$ property just to stir
things up. What else can be done?
chuckb...@aol.com
Thankyou for these brilliant observations and conclusions.
A few things I would like to see are:
1) More top echelon defections (RTC, CMO Int, ASI, CST)
2) More general ranks Sea Org member defections
3) More ex top rank people coming out and speaking
about what they saw happening on the inside
I will gladly post any anonymous ex-Sea Org person's
data sent to me in any way anyone wishes to send it to
me.
Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver time)
(Call anytime if it's important to you!)
PS: It is a pretty long walk, mentally, from the
viewpoint of a dedicated Sea Org member at the
highest ranks of the movement, to one willing to
voice their observations about what they see as
wrong about the Scientology movement. But it is
being done, and will continue to happen. It isn't
something new, it's happened plenty in the past
55 years now. I encourage those "lurking" who
worked at "Int" to come out, speak out, as they
see fit.
wcb
When Time did its big article of Scientology and was sued, it chilled
commentary on Scientology. But the net has changed all that.
Scinetology has no secrets anymore. Everybody knows about Xenu and
Hubbard's past and Scientology's squallid record as a cult.
And everybody is now free to write about it. When the Washington Post
suit was tossed in weeks, the legal spell was broken.
Voltaire's prayer, that god make his enemies look ridiculous,
is coming true for Scientology critics. Worse yet, creepy. Scientology
tents, Katie's new two-legged brain who followers her everywhere.
And the space cootie bit is becoming know.
The laugh factor of Scientology space opera nonsense is high.
There will be a tipping point where they will be laughed out
of existance. Creepy abnd silly, not a good combination.
Even Barabara Schwarz can't save them now.
--
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
Ravegirl
before the media...if the national TV shows are willing to take it on,
it will help to have a large and well-organized group of top defectors
who are willing to come forward and speak out. Great going to Charlie
and Chuck. It's nice to see the tide finally turning.
barb
Chances are, there are copies of Dianetics and other Scn propaganda in
your friendly local liberry. You could put fliers in them. Also in
laundromats, coffee shops, any place where people gather to spend some
time. Given a choice of reading a flier or watching my laundry dry...
--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander
ewsnead
"barb" <bwa...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:42b2c04f$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
> Ravegirl wrote:
>
>> So the question is...how to capitalise on this? How to give those
>> wobbling pedestals that extra little push? cultxpt has created a great
>> "Free Katie" flyer (inspired by the fun, non-Scieno movement of the
>> same name) that lays out the facts in a really entertaining way, and I
>> thought I'd try posting it around the local Co$ property just to stir
>> things up. What else can be done?
>>
> Chances are, there are copies of Dianetics and other Scn propaganda in
> your friendly local liberry. You could put fliers in them. Also in
> laundromats, coffee shops, any place where people gather to spend some
> time. Given a choice of reading a flier or watching my laundry dry...
Flyers on college campuses that connect Spewintology, Xenu, Cruise and
Criminality and Corruption with Internet links to Clambake and Lermanet
would also be effective.
It's the Cruise connection that makes it possible. Scientology is no longer
hard news that has to be slowly and painfully digested like a clump of
unseasoned brocolli. Thanks to Tom Terrific, it has become info-tainment, as
easily gobbled as gourmet jelly beans or Ben and Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice
cream.
ewsnead
--
"Scientology: boldly challenging the MEST universe since 1953, with
decidedly mixed results."
Phil Scott
"Ravegirl" <stopsci...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118984772.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
www.cafepress.com free account... design yer t shirt, mug or
hat... then people call them and order...cafepress then sends
you a check for whatever mark up you set.
Phil Scott
>
Phil Scott
Tom is GREAT promo for scn... already tens of thousands
more people are searching google. Cant beat it with a stick.
The world will want to know now how Katie is doing with the
brainwash operation...it will be endlessly fascinating.
Phil Scott
Ted Mayett
That building makes no sense at all. It should be open already.
What is it now, something like 20 orgs that have moved to better
locations or have been fixed up nicely.
The fact is, this big org here in Vegas... it was bad, really bad, and
they cleaned it up all by themselves. And they cleaned the org in
time for this TC publicity blitz.
There is a chance that all of this TC stuff has been planned to
coincide with the orgs being fixed up. And, maybe, the super powers
building will open in time also. New people would get started in
orgs, and it might be a year until Clearwater gets these new people as
they have to start up the Bridge first.
Hicksville org moved to a larger location. Hard to put a negative
spin on a fact like that. London org moving to a much larger
location.
If these two orgs here in Vegas are any indication of scientology as a
whole, then scientology is truly expanding. And is this really so
strange?
1950 people like us here made Dianetics a best seller, we put the book
to the top of the chats. And why today, are people any smarter than
they were in 1950?
Will History look back to June of 2005, and analyze a publicity
campaign done by a top movie star and a new religion? And will
History maybe comment on how brilliant the strategy was? Well we
don't know this, not today, not yet.
My prediction is that the Super Powers building *will* open, and that
it will be positively stunning when it is completed. The orgs will
continue to grow, to look better. Remember, even prices are dropping
in Scn. The tech is being altered, Source is being phased out, it is
all changing.
Well, lets see what happens. But ummm, Scn has been collapsing for
ten years now on this NG, ummm, will this same subject line appear
again in 2015? That could happen easily.
--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
Phil Scott
"Ted Mayett" <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:00c6b15vat6lc5scq...@4ax.com...
> The only thing really out of place is that Super Powers
building.
> That building makes no sense at all. It should be open
already.
>
> What is it now, something like 20 orgs that have moved to
better
> locations or have been fixed up nicely.
>
> The fact is, this big org here in Vegas... it was bad,
really bad, and
> they cleaned it up all by themselves. And they cleaned the
org in
> time for this TC publicity blitz.
>
> There is a chance that all of this TC stuff has been planned
to
> coincide with the orgs being fixed up. And, maybe, the
super powers
> building will open in time also. New people would get
started in
> orgs, and it might be a year until Clearwater gets these new
people as
> they have to start up the Bridge first.
>
> Hicksville org moved to a larger location. Hard to put a
negative
> spin on a fact like that.
Depends if the org is full of paying public or not..so far
most are going empty. But like you say, with cut prices etc
maybe scn will resurge.
personally I think their hands are too dirty and the talent
too far gone to support even a glimmer of a resurgence. Time
will tell.
London org moving to a much larger
> location.
>
> If these two orgs here in Vegas are any indication of
scientology as a
> whole, then scientology is truly expanding.
Better buildings, but staying empty is not expanding.
And is this really so
> strange?
>
> 1950 people like us here made Dianetics a best seller, we
put the book
> to the top of the chats. And why today, are people any
smarter than
> they were in 1950?
No..but in 1950 there was no immune system response to
scn...it ran rampant..now the public is innoculated. Scn has
not been able so far to expand into that... Maybe if Tom
Cruise jumped up and down on the furniture more it would
help... he could scream maybe...or pee in the flower pots.
>
> Will History look back to June of 2005, and analyze a
publicity
> campaign done by a top movie star and a new religion?
Very very doubtful. At this point the more the cult
advertizes the more people search the web for details on the
dirt.
And will
> History maybe comment on how brilliant the strategy was?
Well we
> don't know this, not today, not yet.
Maybe if they got some really big orange tents, without the
greasy poles etc...that might work. Either you or I though
could boom their stats.
I could have scn cooking with gas in no time.
>
> My prediction is that the Super Powers building *will* open,
and that
> it will be positively stunning when it is completed.
Correct.... stunning...
....but empty.
The orgs will
> continue to grow, to look better.
I dont think the orgs will grow personally... I think scn inc
will keep on shrinkin'.
Remember, even prices are dropping
> in Scn. The tech is being altered, Source is being phased
out, it is
> all changing.
It was only the brainwash and lies and Hubbards mind
control charisma that kept scn afloat... its gone now.
It won't float imho.
Phil Scott
ewsnead
"Ted Mayett" <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:00c6b15vat6lc5scq...@4ax.com...
Originary Source is being phased out? This smacks of planned obsolescence.
Then Source, by definition can no longer be considered Source. Any Source
suffices as a source. Why remain a Scientologist if there are no stable
datums?
> Well, lets see what happens. But ummm, Scn has been collapsing for
> ten years now on this NG, ummm, will this same subject line appear
> again in 2015? That could happen easily.
Yes, it could. Organizational Scientology might persist through space and
time indefinitely. It is my hope and my hunch that this is not the case. The
fact the the cult cannibalizes its outer public perimeters to consolidate
the appearances of the "inner" orgs suggests its current state of
contraction, if not dereliction.
ewsnead
--
"Scientology: boldly challenging the MEST universe since 1953, with
decidedly mixed results."
>
>
>
>
Phil Scott
I object to your use of the term 'canibalize' so far all we
have seen are a few dozen dead, boiled alive, shot, driven to
suicide etc...but so far none of them have been actually eaten
by scientology managment (as far as we know).
Phil Scott
friendship
ewsnead wrote:
>
> Yes, it could. Organizational Scientology might persist through space and
> time indefinitely. It is my hope and my hunch that this is not the case. The
> fact the the cult cannibalizes its outer public perimeters to consolidate
> the appearances of the "inner" orgs suggests its current state of
> contraction, if not dereliction.
>
> ewsnead
Yes. When the stats are really crashed there is often wholesale
cannibalization of Missions, field groups and outer Orgs. It's
happened over and over. There may be a few Org and Missions that are
doing well here and there but from what most of us can see the stats
are trending DOWN.
wcb
There is no cannibalism in the Royal English Navy. I repeat,
there is no cannibalism in the Royal English Navy. And when I
say there is no cannibalism in the Royal English Navy, I mean
there is a bit.
- Monty Python
Phil Scott
"wcb" <wbar...@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:11b7dub...@corp.supernews.com...
Ok Ok...look.. just because there was SOME
cannibalism...doenst mean you have to turn 100% negative.
You can just turn negative on the cannibal parts.
In the case of scientology we have GOOD evidence of *no
cannibalism.*.. Me, Havarith though, may he finally rest in
peace, his body found boiled alive in Rm 754 I think, 7th
floor at least, a guest room.. of the cults Fort Homicide
Hotel... while his skin was cooked and peeled off to his neck
and he would have been edible NO BITES WERE TAKEN,,, that was
CONFIRMED by Autopsy.
There are so many missing that we cannot confirm what is in
the meatloaf and meat balls served to the RPF however.
On another issue...will the scn social and political nicy
nicy tactics resurect their dead orgs?
Nahhh. the word is out. It would be like Charles Manson or
the hillside strangler having come backs. ..too much blood
under the bridge for that.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
"friendship" <frien...@ureach.com> wrote in message
news:1119071288.5...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
the SF org, Sacramento Org, and LA Org stats are not just
trending down, they are flat on their ass..with a 98% decline
from peak levels, and now very very few of the old guard seen
around...in 1998 at SF org pickets you could see a handful of
40 and 50 somethings hanging out at break times...those are
virtually ALL gone now... now its newbies and half as many at
that, often less than 1 or 2 entering the org at peak levels.
it seems though that with Gold base de-staffing and selling
off property (the Golf Course, which would have remained an
excellent public relations tool)...that gold staff are being
sent to live in the orgs...for instance at the SF org you can
see 15 of these types around, but they dont leave at night.
Maybe the plan is to get them jobs in the city then have
them take cash paid services at the orgs...that tactic though
would violate the free training for staff policy and
disincentive people going onto staff....so its freebies seen
at the SF org for the most part...not paying public.
Phil Scott
>
chuckb...@aol.com
Ted Mayett wrote:
> The only thing really out of place is that Super Powers building.
> That building makes no sense at all. It should be open already.
>
Hello Ted,
While on the PAC RPF in 2001-2002, we got encouraged
to gear up mentally for graduating the RPF and replacing
staff in the PAC area, so they could in turn move up and
man the Superpower building positions that would need to
be filled. There is/was a continuing personnel problem
for training up the staff to man the building. Not sure
where that program is at, but anyone with recent history
at the FSO might have something to say on the future staff
for the tech positions in the Superpower building, and
numbers and designations (like smocks being worn, the
"TTC meetings" of those people) etc. Getting a line on
the trainees training up, and surely they are training
up at the FSO to be minimally FSO standardness.
> What is it now, something like 20 orgs that
> have moved to better locations or have been
> fixed up nicely.
I figured this was the "quick fix" bright idea of
killing two birds with one stone, 1) getting the
money sitting around in foreign accounts spent
back on real estate, a good long range investment
and 2) applying LRH's old "bright idea" about
the HCO Policy Letter "Improve Our Image",
where LRH wildly claims how the org income can
be increased by 500%, which of course DM then
had to go through the learning curve of realizing
this LRH bright idea was another one of LRH's
shoot from the hip wild claims, not entirely
supported by facts (which in turn LRH failed
to admit to, and in turn these types of major
LRH dictums then send the faithful managers
scrambling to shoot innocent staff to place
the blame for the lack of income and expansion
back onto faulty staff execution which "sabotaged"
LRH's wild-eyed policies).
Also, the richer public for decades have
complained, and the baser celebs and rich
public, the ones who have been footing the bills
for Scientology for decades, have ever so subtly
over the decades complained enough, so that top
management has finally fixed up the churches.
Fixing up the churches also reflects that the
churches are growing, another part of the
image building. Nothing wrong with that, but
the rooms are unquestionably not full. (See
more on this below.)
>
> The fact is, this big org here in Vegas... it was
>bad, really bad, and they cleaned it up all by
>themselves. And they cleaned the org in
> time for this TC publicity blitz.
>
Can't argue with that, the locals like clean
well kept buildings, and it is not a bad thing.
Let's see what happens 50 years from now, if
the next generation of Scientology top
management keeps up their churchs in 50
years when they start crumbling, etc.
Outside the Scientology world bubble, which
in my opinion cannot but follow suit with
the large worldwide trends with religions,
locally here in Pittsburgh
I see dozens and dozens of run down
large beautiful churches, here in Pittsburgh,
and a few have been converted to non-
religious use, due to long range demographic
trends of ever lower church attendence. I
don't see the strength of the Scientology
philosophy/religion countering and "growing"
in the face of the larger western world
religious trend, honestly. It is not just
Scientology's philosophical/religious
kookiness that detracts from the
Scientology movement expansion. Other
major civilization cultural factors and
the strength of people's adherance to the
existing traditional religions also majorly
counters Scientology expansion also.
As a Sea Org member, I often wondered
realistically that devout Catholics,
Protestants, Christian fundamentalists,
Jewish, all these people WERE NOT ever
going to convert to Scientology, and thus
this alone would present a completely
insurmountable block to attaining world
clearing. The demanding Scientology
church scheduling, the fact that
the percentage of "dual" religious
participants (meaning the Scientology
claim that one could retain their faith
in let's say Catholicism, and still be
an active Scientologist), just is NOT
proven in reality. People who are devout
in their prior religions, do NOT
retain their devout beliefs in their
original religion, but they absolutely
100% shed their prior faiths, to
advance fully to the highest levels of
the Scientology spiritual bridge.
Thus realistically, this is another one
of the cracks in the whole Scientology
bubble world, where an LRH claim of
dual religious membership does
NOT work out. These LRH words are just
not happening.
> There is a chance that all of this TC stuff has
>been planned to coincide with the orgs being
> fixed up. And, maybe, the super powers
> building will open in time also. New people
> would get started in orgs, and it might be
> a year until Clearwater gets these new people as
> they have to start up the Bridge first.
>
I would love to hear a recent Int Base staffer
brief us on this. I am sure you are spot on to
some degree in your guess here.
> Hicksville org moved to a larger location.
> Hard to put a negative spin on a fact like
> that. London org moving to a much larger
> location.
>
> If these two orgs here in Vegas are any
> indication of scientology as a
> whole, then scientology is truly expanding.
> And is this really so strange?
>
No, I agree their expansion could happen.
But it is not.
Here is credible raw info.
Ann Marie Woodward, posting on Clambake, is
about the best case scenario recent defector.
She was intimately connected with the middle
management (HGB -Hollywood Guarantee Building,
Hollywood, where about 1100 staff are in this
12 story building, and all the statistics from
the churches around the world come into this
building weekly for tabulation and the
Scientology movement official management
overseeing activities), and Ann Marie can
give you the scoop. She was asked a number
of questions, on Clambake and you should see
her answers. She's credible, I've known her
for almost 20 years, and the stats in the
churches are NOT what they were. See her
posts!
> 1950 people like us here made Dianetics
> a best seller, we put the book to the top
> of the chats. And why today, are people any
> smarter than they were in 1950?
>
wow. I think the recent observations of
media and scholarly writers about where we
stand culturally as western civilization,
etc., understanding this current world,
effects greatly why people seek involvement
in the Scientology movement activity. Others
elsewhere have commented on this, and it leads
to all sorts of serious discussions.
LRH was also betting on the famous western
historion Arnold Toynbee's assertion
that the only thing that Toynbee saw to save
western civ avoiding the downslide that was
thought to be the case in the late 1950's,
was a renewed resurgance of religious activity.
Toynbee pegged western civ on a downslide,
with religion as the only thing to save it.
> Will History look back to June of 2005, and
> analyze a publicity campaign done by a top
> movie star and a new religion? And will
> History maybe comment on how brilliant the
> strategy was?
No. That is how internally Scientology top
managers would like to see it, and maybe that
is the message and view imbued by DM and the
top Scientology management execs in their
speeches at the church events, but that is NOT
the wider world's view, as the wider world has
so many other cultural factors entering their
broader worldviews, that actually this shows a
wide lack on the part of the Scientology top
management to actually assume the "viewpoint"
(per the LRH issue, the marketing series
policy letter called "Viewpoint"). DM et
al at the top of the movement, are failing to
see and truly grasp the modern western world's
viewpoint, and the church's marketing strategy's
(probably ever since Ronnie, DM's brother fell
from grace, Ronnie in my opinion at least was
better in tune with the world and more uptone
than David Miscavige his brother), so in my
opinion, not only is DM wrong about current
world opinion, DM's brother ejected, who
probably was at least a bit better at it, so
again, another strike against the movement. Bad
marketing, in recent years, out of tune.
Ann Marie Woodward said the only Saint Hill
sized org is CC Int. The celebs are the ones
carrying the load, and doing the mainline
dissemination for them.
We haven't seen any other marketing large scale
campaigns, in 5 years.
We could use an Int Base marketing area defector
to tell us what's gone wrong in their marketing
endeavors.
>Well we don't know this, not
> today, not yet.
>
> My prediction is that the Super Powers
> building *will* open, and that it will be
> positively stunning when it is completed.
It already is a pretty striking building,
so that part I agree with.
> The orgs will continue to grow, to look
> better.
Not growing, but I agree great new image with
their buildings.
Their growth in church activities is not
happening for cultural reasons they are unable
to surmount with their currently failed Marketing
Tech LRH left them, which it is doubtful it
is a guaranteed working tech with 100% results,
since the Marketing tech (if one reads the Marketing
Series in the OEC Volumes), is mainly borrowed
from Ogilby and Mather's "Positioning..." tech,
which is fine enough, but it takes correct use,
and for certain reasons isn't always a winner.
But in any case they aren't fully correctly
applying the marketing tech he did leave them.
Stats don't show the expansion, not per Ann
Marie's firsthand credible data.
But should they expand, hey, I won't deny it.
I hoped, for the sake of their staff who are
"slaving away" that they would get a respite
from the grind, their 14 hour days, 7 days a
week, for the Sea Org members. I personally
have a soft spot for the staff in the Sea Org
for their schedules, etc.
We need more recent Sea Org defectors, and Int
Base defectors, and OSA Int defectors, to tell
us what is going on.
>Remember, even prices are dropping
> in Scn.
I am slow. I think you are being sarcastic
here. Are their prices actually going down?
You joking?
They need to phase out priced/donations
and switch to tithe (10%), and reorganize their
staffs to service ALL economic strata, rich to
low income, and let everyone advance up their
"bridge to total freedom". I'd pilot this in
a 3rd world startup country, and perfect it,
then in 5-10-20 years switch over the rest of
countries to this same system.
>The tech is being altered, Source
> is being phased out, it is all changing.
>
> Well, lets see what happens. But ummm,
> Scn has been collapsing for ten years now
> on this NG, ummm, will this same subject
> line appear again in 2015? That could
> happen easily.
>
> --
> Ted Mayett OT 1.1
> http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
Yep, very likely this conversation will
go on as long as they carry on.
They need some bright spark people
inside their management ranks to come up
with some ideas, and not be beaten down with
the string of losses that they have accumulated
(like any business, any organization).
I can't understand why they let Ronnie go.
He was a bright guy. They can't afford to lose
their bright spark people. Bad mistake.
Any former Int Base staffer with any relevant
info on the movement leaders, strategies, etc.,
please contact me, and you can give me data in
such a way that I won't identify you, if you
fear being retaliated against, which I haven't
been yet reataliated against in the almost 1
year that I have been posting details of what
I observed in my 27 year life as a Sea Org member.
Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver time)
(Call anytime if important!)
ida...@aol.com
the lies he was spouting. His claim of there being Baptist, Catholic,
Methodist $cientologists was so far from the truth it is impossible to
describe. I had hoped the interviewer would have mentioned Hubbard's
claim "There is no Christ" and see a response from the over processed
Cruise.
With the various web sites getting record hits I do beleive many in the
public will
find the truth.
Now is the time to encourage all those who have left this evil outfit
to step forward and tell their stories. Each one can help
those who have listened to the hype from
the few stars that are involved.
Ida Camburn
"Writing my story down was like taking
a shower on the inside"
Lermanet.com/garyweber/
Susan
Chuck,
Are you saying that you support scientology, its bridge to total freedom,
and that only scientology's pricing structure needs to be changed? Are you
suggesting that you support taking scientology to a third world country and
then eminating out from there?
Susan
Ted Mayett
>Outside the Scientology world bubble, which
>in my opinion cannot but follow suit with
>the large worldwide trends with religions,
>locally here in Pittsburgh
>I see dozens and dozens of run down
>large beautiful churches, here in Pittsburgh,
>and a few have been converted to non-
>religious use, due to long range demographic
>trends of ever lower church attendence. I
>don't see the strength of the Scientology
>philosophy/religion countering and "growing"
>in the face of the larger western world
>religious trend, honestly. It is not just
>Scientology's philosophical/religious
>kookiness that detracts from the
>Scientology movement expansion. Other
>major civilization cultural factors and
>the strength of people's adherance to the
>existing traditional religions also majorly
>counters Scientology expansion also.
>
Hah, interesting. !
Ted Mayett
<phil...@philscott.net> wrote:
> Depends if the org is full of paying public or not..so far
>most are going empty.
You have no idea whatsoever, in any form of fashion, of what current
membership figures are for 'most' orgs.
> And will
>> History maybe comment on how brilliant the strategy was?
>Well we
>> don't know this, not today, not yet.
>
> Maybe if they got some really big orange tents, without the
>greasy poles etc...that might work. Either you or I though
>could boom their stats.
>
>I could have scn cooking with gas in no time.
>
We could sell courses, that's all we could do. I'm not a religious
type myself (I am a body), so I cannot sell religion.
And we wouldn't need sceintology to sell the courses that people would
pay for, and that would be useful for something. And I'm too old to
be bothered with this stuff today.
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>
>Originary Source is being phased out?
I think it was Cerridwen posted about some new issue of something that
had pictures of DM preceding pictures of Him. Or the pictures were
side by side, something like that. Would be nice to have a scan of
that. (hint)
Phil Scott
"Ted Mayett" <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:ojr9b1tcg7o5ospuo...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:52:29 -0700, "Phil Scott"
> <phil...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Depends if the org is full of paying public or not..so
far
> >most are going empty.
>
> You have no idea whatsoever, in any form of fashion, of what
current
> membership figures are for 'most' orgs.
Not so... the various pickets including yours give car and
head traffic counts in and out of the orgs.. and I have done
many myself including touring AOLA last fall at their busiest
weekend hours and did a live head count in the course and
waiting rooms and lobby etc
I have a very good idea of the number of people left in scn...
its under 5,000 active world wide.
One can also extrapolate from attendance at major events...
when all this intersects in a particular range you know that
you are in the ball park... the ball park is less than 5,000
active... probably less than 2500 on course or in a building
on a daily basis world wide.
I was inside the SF org when it had 50 to 100 students
active... now it has less than a handful entering and leaving
each day at the dinner hours.
The same shrinkage can be seen at flag and in their completion
reports. When they graduate less than 50 students a month on
courses averaging less thana month to complete on average, you
know the head count is in the 50 range... then if you notice
the foot traffic you can confirm the general condition...same
with the tampa org... mostly empty.
How many are still on the books but inactive is much less
relevant.
Phil Scott
chuckb...@aol.com
>Susan wrote:
>
> Chuck,
>
> Are you saying that you support scientology, its bridge to total freedom,
> and that only scientology's pricing structure needs to be changed? Are you
> suggesting that you support taking scientology to a third world country and
> then eminating out from there?
>
> Susan
>
>
Dear Susan,
Yes, sorry, my old soppy sympathies for the Sea
Org slide me back into proposing all sorts of
weird Monday morning quarterback-like suggestions
for fixing the Sea Org and Scientology like some
still drunk sailor.
What a weird whatever. Sorry.
Hmm. I've still a ways to go, to reach full
realization how really unsupportable the whole
L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology movement is.
I'm almost there.
I appreciate the tip.
Chuck Beatty.
Zinj
chuckb...@aol.com says...
I wouldn't worry about it Chuck... I still sometimes find myself
thinking about buying a LavaLamp; until I realize that, since I don't
sit around zonked in darkened rooms, there wouldn't be much point. :)
Zinj
--
If you don't understand Scientology, it looks like mental illness.
Once you *do* understand Scientology, it looks like deliberate mental
illness
Mark Thorson
> Yes, sorry, my old soppy sympathies for the Sea
> Org slide me back into proposing all sorts of
> weird Monday morning quarterback-like suggestions
> for fixing the Sea Org and Scientology like some
> still drunk sailor.
Any comment on Keith Henson's suggestion about
creating a harmless prophylactic religion to engage people
susceptible to Scientology before they become trapped
by the real thing?
Zinj
It's already been done, a couple of times even :)
I won't invite any converts to Zinjifarianism, but Bokononism is open to
all!
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Zinj" <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d20a0f8e...@news2.lightlink.com...
> In article <42B6D41A...@sonic.net>, nos...@sonic.net says...
>> chuckb...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> > Yes, sorry, my old soppy sympathies for the Sea
>> > Org slide me back into proposing all sorts of
>> > weird Monday morning quarterback-like suggestions
>> > for fixing the Sea Org and Scientology like some
>> > still drunk sailor.
>>
>> Any comment on Keith Henson's suggestion about
>> creating a harmless prophylactic religion to engage people
>> susceptible to Scientology before they become trapped
>> by the real thing?
>
> It's already been done, a couple of times even :)
> I won't invite any converts to Zinjifarianism, but Bokononism is open to
> all!
Yeah, but even in Bokononism performing Boko-Maru with yourself is, alas, an
abherration.
--
http://BuffaloScientologyInfo.com - http://www.xenu.net
http://PerkinsTragedy.org - http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
* "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All
mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
Susan
Cool. I'm glad that my questions got you thinking.
Susan
||
|| Chuck Beatty.
chuckb...@aol.com
That is an intensely funny observation.
I think anyone getting in now, must be computer
illiterate.
Now with the internet, any college student
can find all the wacky angles to Scientology
so they don't make the misstep of getting into
it.
I don't think much needs to be done, but keep
putting more good material about the experiences
of people who are basically disappointed with their
overall Scientology experiences, especially the
people who have been in for decades, and then
quit in disappointment.
I got in Scientology today in my junior year
in college. If I were in college now, I would
just check the internet, and that would have
horrified me from joining today.
I think the people missing the benefits of the
internet are the ones at risk. Those include the
Scientology kids.
But even computer illiterate Scientology family
kids make it out and stay OUT of Scientology.
(An anonymous ex Sea Org parent wrote me one of
their kids, and both parents were Sea Org, one
of their kids got out, and DOES NOT plan on
having ANYTHING further to do with Scientology,
yet both parents were Sea Org, and they raised
their kids as Sea Org kids.)
I agree the internet is just a guaranteed permanent
good thing. People can get on, chat, see all sorts
of excellent material on Scientology, enough to
horrify anyone away from the kookiness in L. Ron
Hubbard's Scientology.
I can't imagine any major efforts are needed.
I think people just getting good good scientific
education, gives a whole different type of religious
outlook, one not so built on the faults of past
religions.
Life is just so variable, it is hard to conjecture
a "solution" to keeping people out of 'cult-like'
groups. I think the cult experts are the best to
confer with on what they think.
To me, thank goodness for the internet, and the
excellent anti-Scientology sites, and ARS and
Clambake and Factnet. And the hundreds of people
who I've been able to chat with.
Best, Chuck Beatty
chuckb...@aol.com
wcb wrote:
> Ravegirl wrote:
>
> > It's in its final death throes. The press isn't even scared
> > anymore...the gloves are off. Gossip columns around the globe are
> > openly referring to Jessica Rodriguez as Katie Holmes "cult minder" and
> > Florida's papers are republishing fact files. Web hits are up on
> > Clambake and other anti-Co$ sites. People around the world are
> > learning first hand--because Cruise and DM are trying a last-ditch
> > effort to push the "happy side" of Scientology down the world's
> > throat--about the truth of Xenu!
> >
> > The Truth is Out There. And the press isn't scared anymore. People
> > are curious about the Church. People are interested in hearing why
> > Cruise is a whackjob, why Jenna Elfman gave such a weird-ass interview
> > about aliens, and why the local Scientology churches are falling
> > further and further into disrepair. Don't underestimate the enormous
> > power of watching the mighty fall from their great pedestals!
>
> When Time did its big article of Scientology and was sued, it chilled
> commentary on Scientology. But the net has changed all that.
> Scinetology has no secrets anymore. Everybody knows about Xenu and
> Hubbard's past and Scientology's squallid record as a cult.
>
> And everybody is now free to write about it. When the Washington Post
> suit was tossed in weeks, the legal spell was broken.
>
> Voltaire's prayer, that god make his enemies look ridiculous,
> is coming true for Scientology critics. Worse yet, creepy. Scientology
> tents, Katie's new two-legged brain who followers her everywhere.
> And the space cootie bit is becoming know.
>
> The laugh factor of Scientology space opera nonsense is high.
> There will be a tipping point where they will be laughed out
> of existance. Creepy abnd silly, not a good combination.
>
> Even Barabara Schwarz can't save them now.
>
>
> --
>
Yes. Isn't this true. The confidential wall of
secrecy around the upper level materials has
crashed down in the public.
This is truly historic last ten year period.
Thanks to all who helped get the materials onto
the internet.
If there are any types of memorial services or
celebrations amongst the critic community, this
major effort on the confid materials getting out
for good, is a major major success to be
celebrated and remembered.
I think those who helped get the confid materials
out in the open, ought to get a big thankyou!
I was really happy to get out and read them on
the internet, when I got out. After 28 years
of being chilled into their deadly effects, I
really had some mental conniptions as I read
my way through the secret OT materials on the
internet.
I was spazzing, wondering for weeks if my BTs
might just wake up and sting me like a hive
of angry wasps.
It's a mental jump to get over, and I think a
step that non-clear and non-OT ex-Scientologists
have to consciously push themselves to JUMP over.
What a relief you don't choke and die from them
buzzing BT wasps! It's no joke, depending how
deeply indoctrinated you are, like I was. Takes
a fews months or year or so of periodic checking
yourself, your health, to realize the BS factor
to the BTs.
Best, Chuck Beatty
Phil Scott
<chuckb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1119315395.8...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Arnaldo did the most posting as 'Diconnected' first to AOL
where I met him then to ARS 1993... loads of the original hog
wash.
Then beat em in court for the most part.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
<chuckb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1119314152.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The internet will go down as corrupt govt rises...and corrupt
govt is rising fast, in the US at least. This is a window in
time where the internet has nailed scientology...it may not
always be this open and available.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
WCB
> Arnaldo did the most posting as 'Diconnected' first to AOL
> where I met him then to ARS 1993... loads of the original hog
> wash.
>
> Then beat em in court for the most part.
We must also thank the brave and anonymous people who posted
tape transcripts and other Hubbard materials on the net.
Zenon Panoussis who posted many others including the OECs.
Samidzat. Dennis Ehrlic. Steve Fishman and his lawyers who
had much of this in a lawsuit for others to find and post, mainly Arnaldo.
Gerald Amstrong whose actions made a lot of information known
we might otherwise not know. Which made a lot of books possible.
Jon Atack. Karin Spaink. And a lot of peole who run websites with this
material. Especially now, our more stubborn Russian
cousins. Jon Atack, Russell Miller, Bent Corydon and all the other
writers who did a thorough job on Hubbard. Paullette Cooper
who was one of the first and suffered probably the most. Henson and
Ward.
Thanks to all who made it possible.
Ten years now of whipping Scientology soundly and with vigor.
If you listen carefully, even now, you can hear the whips biting deep
and hard.
I suggest it won't get any better for them in
the next ten years on the net.
--
When I shake my killfile I can hear them buzzing.
Phil Scott
"WCB" <wbar...@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:11bj15j...@corp.supernews.com...
Yes how right you are.
Regarding the trend on the net... scn is now watered down with
fewer thugs... without the thugs and with the expose going on
recruitment and revenue from those they do manage to recruit
will got to the bottom.
Phil Scott
chuckb...@aol.com
I hate to bury such good new info, so I am posting this
info here, where it related to, but also posting it
separately with it's own header. Thanks to the
anonymous source, who has links to the events at
the no longer secret Int Base outside Hemet/
San Jacinto, California where the heads of the
Scientology movement live and work. Chuck Beatty
Anonymous answer to the above post:
------------------------------------
Great message to ars on June 17. You are spot
on. I think, however, that " Positioning "is
from Ries and Trout, not Ogilvy and Mather. I
heard that they were hired after Hubbard's
death to assist with marketing - they told
management to dump the Dianetics and Scientology
names and ditch the pseudo-military uniforms
and were promptly fired.
Best regards.