On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:03:06 GMT, alex
<alexrsi
...@notmail.comdamnspam> wrote:
>In article <1175797216.468234.153
...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> "SME" <larrybren12
...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 5, 1:05 pm, alex <alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam> wrote:
>> > In article <1175785856.709737.98...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "SME" <larrybren12...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > snip
>> > > I say that, no matter what our differences, we can be organized and do
>> > > something about it if we want.
>> > > SME
>> > Yes "we" can. Although what you want to do about it is not what i want
>> > to do about it.
>> > You desire to take down the whole church. This is evidenced by your
>> > statement "I'm not for the technology in either place", and your plans
>> > to put scientology under examination for its "psychological" damage.
>> > Also your pleas for information, and assurances that it is not necessary
>> > to contribute financially, are disingenuous. If a person were to come
>> > forward with information and attach their name to it, they had better
>> > have "representation", as the likelihood of them being subpoened,
>> > deposed, and possibly sued for slander or libel are real.
>> > Representation=$
>> > As I have publicly and privately pointed out to you, you are using a
>> > shotgun approach when a single target and more focused effort would be
>> > more effective.
>> > You continue to operate under the "ends justify the means" modus.
>> > Same modus as when you were in, flipped goal.
>> > Simon Bolivar: If you take away someones game, the game becomes get you.
>> > DM got your game.
>> > alex
>> Alex, I have done my best to be open and fair with you both on here
>> and in private email.
>> But consider this my last response to what you post about me and my
>> intentions on here. Feel free to privately email again if you want.
>> I find it very interesting that the more I say I am focusing on DM and
>> not others, the more you step up your little "attack" and crazy
>> evaluation.
>> I particularly note how you forward the "church" line of trying to
>> make people fearful of speaking out. Do you get a "stat" each time you
>> mention that?
>> If you want to do something different than I do, please free free to
>> just go ahead and do what you got to do.
>> I'm not going to justify anything else to you. But in the interest of
>> being clear, I will post here a few parts of my reply to you in our
>> private emails. I know it's been over 20 days and you have not replied
>> to me. I am not quoting your email as you sent it to me privately.
>> Hopefully my private notes to you listed below will still make some
>> sense without showing what you said.
>> If you would prefer, I give you permission to publish both our emails
>> on here. I'd also be glad to do so if you are ok on it.
>> You know who I am but you still hide. Fair enough, your choice but it
>> does give you a heck of a lot less credibility. Here's the parts from
>> my email to you in the event it helps refresh your memory:
>> "I appreciate that that has meaning to you. It actually doesn't matter
>> to me. I am not pondering on such. I know people who loved LRH and
>> people who hate him. I am positive he had good and bad sides. In one
>> XSO post I call him, like us all, "a walking contradicition, partly
>> truth and partly fiction" in poetically taking from an old country
>> song. lol The difference between him and most of us as we seek
>> something better is that I and people I know did not ALSO abuse others
>> who thought differently than us. We did not lie, committ fraud and
>> such. These are things that I hope are dealt with the most. Yes LRH is
>> dead but those carrying out his old policies who use them to lie,
>> abuse and the like need to be dealt with and, to understand that, ones
>> needs some understanding of that part of LRH"..........
>> "Your premise assumes that only it's "misapplication" can cause
>> damage. For one thing, I really don't believe that and for another, I
>> think it's just too easy to rationalize every abuse by saying a great
>> technology was "misapplied" every time there was a bad result. Hubbard
>> was a mess before he died. In his last years there were many examples
>> of "insane" actions by him. While I respect that no one is perfect and
>> while I respect his right to believe in what he believed, he is no
>> example at all to me as someone who had a workable tech and wonderful
>> answer for all. I'm not sure he had that even for himself. That said,
>> I respect differing views. Also, I simply posted the fact that Factnet
>> was doing a criminal investigation. This was so that people who wanted
>> to be part of it could. I neither recommended it, nor advised against
>> it. More and more people are coming to me know that know of many lies,
>> even crimes as far as I know. It's amazing how they were afraid to
>> speak out. Well, as one judge said "sunshine disinfects" so let the
>> truth win out. For one thing, I don't believe in the part of the
>> investigation surrounding scientology's attorneys. I also am not
>> personally focused on the section with which you had concerns. But I
>> am aware of other parts of their investigation that I support and feel
>> is important. Simple as that".........
>> "Alex, I can understand how you and others can feel this way. But my
>> friend countless people who do horrible things where they think they
>> are "above the law" and then justify it based on their religious
>> beliefs or whatever. And Hubbard is an example of one of them. He
>> abused many people, lied repeatedly, sought the destruction of all who
>> oppose his will, took money by threat, fraud and deception and much
>> more. If the government said you can not love your children, I would
>> respect everyone who loved their children in spite of it. I'm not
>> saying "government" is always right. Nor do I think that. One can get
>> into subjective arguments on this topic forever. Bottom line for me is
>> that Hubbard WAY overstepped any "poetic license" to do what is right
>> despite governement or anything like that. It's very clear and simple
>> to me"..........
>> "Again, I consider that a rationalization under some banner like "the
>> greatest good". That is so very subjective, prone to error and used
>> all too often in scientiology to harm and destroy others. What is in
>> front of us are very specific actions of greed, crime and the like. I
>> am just addressing some of them. That the organizations of scientology
>> will suffer or that perhaps the practice of same might suffer as
>> abuses and crimes are exposed ought to be blamed on those doing the
>> misdeeds, not the ones exposing same. Will Miscavige drag down the
>> church to protect himself. I don't know, I would guess he probably
>> will"........
>> "Sorry Alex, I am saying facts about horrible abuses and such that I
>> know. Simple as that. What a sweeping, general term is "larger context
>> perspectives"! ......I respect your feelings and rights to same. And,
>> thank you for sharing that with me. I hope that those who find gain in
>> the practice of the non abusive parts of scientology truly find
>> happiness and spiritual enlightenment. I know of people who would like
>> to help it do so when abuses and lies and such are stopped. Good for
>> them. I support that. Just don't try to force it on me or others who
>> do not want it as if somehow you hold some larger perspective or
>> truth. For me, and many others, you don't".......
>> "I certainly hope so Alex. And I wish anyone of good heart trying to
>> reform it good luck......You certainly have a right to your own views
>> and you know far better than I what helps you. So I wish you well on
>> any peaceful and non abusive journey you may take towards personal
>> spiritual enlightenment.......Take care Alex, Larry"
>> So, which of us do you suppose is operating in the open and in good
>> faith Alex?
>> SME
>I was under the assumption that my viewpoint was so different from yours
>that there was no point in replying to you in private. You are
>dismissive of me and continue to imply that I am a church operative.
Your pattern of conduct, pattern of innuendo, and projected motives
for those who seek justice instead of scientology's pathological lying
for money, make it easy to mistake you for OSA.
However, is also a tenet of scientology that it is ok to LIE to
vermin that might attack what otherwise good people have been
hypnotized into believing is "the most ethical group on the planet"
See "Scientologists taught that CRIME OK" 1992 Toronto Sun
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/canada/toronto-92.htm
>I
>can and have overlooked those "insults", but when I feel I have a valid
>point to make, and you provide the vehicle of your public statements, I
>will.
>You say I didnt reply to you for over 20 days, and that I am hiding!
>Well here I am. I was, in my consideration, being polite to you by not
>taking up your time and attention with my views.
>You still avoid addressing my points.
>Your actions attack scientology as a whole rather than focusing on the
>obvious target, David Miscaivage. Thus you dilute your effectiveness,
>and also alienate people who otherwise may support you.
Yeah, this is IDENTICAL to the rubbish run on me when I first came
out and realized that supporting Dennis Erlich
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=326 was a good this to do, that was in 1994.
>You seem to be motivated by revenge.
This is IDENTICAL to the rubbish run on me when I first came out.
Seeking truth can only be characterized as revenge by those who
profit from lies.
>Not a good place to put yourself.
>As to forwarding the church's line regarding putting oneself in danger
>by attacking the church, I think the concept has validity regardless of
>whether or not it coincides with the churchs wishes.
Lets see... "the church" hmm... it is only a church in name and
word, and words are not the things. That is a hypnosis trick.
Words become the things in Scientology.
http://www.Lermanet.com/LRonHubbard2.htm And always remind people how dangerous it is to speak out about a
racketeering and corrupt organizations staffed at the top by
sociopaths
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=88
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=78
whose day to day operations consist of selling blue sky to those who
have not read the net yet.
See factors that Scientology faces as the come out:
>It would be more productive for you to establish and promote a vehicle
>by which people could contribute financially, and also be assured of
>some legal backing if there were problems.
Like the free legal services scientology members get after joining
scientology? Oh that would be nice, but telling the truth is not
libel. That telling the truth might recudece the income of a
Rackateering and corrupt Organization is tough.
http://www.lermanet.com/reference/graphicindex.htm >I orginally commented on your public statements, feeling that you were
>intelligent and willing to look at other viewpoints. I have now been
>disabused of that notion.
>As to my "crazy evaluations" well at least I know where I stand with you!
>From my viewpoint, they have validity.
What is true for you is true, ONLY when you are in a trance - or are
lying.
And if scientology were a religion then lying is a sacrament.
>Have fun mocking me and using your DA tactics.
Allways accuse the opposition of your own crimes,...
The commonalities are
No compassion
truth is whatever they say is true
selective display of information
Always works through proxies
Slime and innuendo of Lerma and
ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS HIM
including ladybird
Bob Sold Out
Gerry, Arnie,Tory = Kook
no conscience
Occassionaly say things critical of scientology
rarely if ever ever link to critical information
Spreads Scientology PR writings
Won't talk on the phone
Won't meet face-to-face in person
Rarely use their own names or indentities
Accuse others of own conduct
Scientology is a church
Religions do bad things
Cannot even discuss or comment
How the scam works - HYPNOSIS
>Like "they" say, you can take a guy out of scientology but you cant take
>the scientology out of a guy.
Always accuse the opposition of your crimes.
You deserve to be plonked alex, you are not real, you are just another
one of Scientology's more-Rons.
How about pasting your project orders to the newsgroup?
You are right on target:
from Operations Officer Hat
"(3) Providing a believable source of an operation, thereby filling
the vacuum, so that Scn. isn't dubbed in as source.
(4) When planning an Op, mentally following it all the way through
looking for areas which need to be taken into account; and
taking the enemy's viewpoint of the Op for the same purpose.
(5) Full and correct use of target series for each Op. Targets simply
stated and specific as possible. (Helps in debugging and to hat
inexperienced persons)
(6) The major target of the Op is based on a *real*, current
situation.
(7) When hitting a group or individual, hitting their finance and comm
lines.
(8) Getting an enemy to attack another enemy.
(9) Working off of programmes which align Ops actions to other Br 1
sections and other Bureaus and which contain command intention
from LRH on down. (Admin scale and priorities aligned)
(10) Working for VFPs and having such reflected in the statistics,
rather than a lot of sub-products.
(11) Exposure of real, documented enemy crimes and material of a
scandalous nature.
(12) Utilizing current events and trends (and finding the right
buttons for exploitation in Ops channels.)
(13) Keeping plans bright and simple and on target.
(14) Finding real buttons.
(15) Keeping up persistent pressure until the product is achieved."
Keep up the pressure Alex
Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
to get them out while they are still alive!
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speake
If the Borg were to breed with the Ferengi you'd get Scientology!
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
"it's incredible how much money the hypnotized disciples of a clever and ruthless operator will plead and beg of him to accept from them"
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist4.htm
"Scientologists believe that most human problems
can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial
people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million
years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters"
to individuals in the contemporary world, causing
spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives
of their hosts"
[Judge Leonie Brinkema 4 Oct 96 Memorandum Opinion]
29 November 1995
Memorandum Opinion Judge Leonie Brinkema
"the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation..
in suing Lerma, ...is to stifle criticism of
Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
What do we get from getting people out of scientology?
We create an individual who has become a Houdini of
all mind traps.. folks who won't be fooled again.
People who can DE-program, People who can spring mental
traps..
We create, by freeing someone of scientology, a being
who has the ability to break the strongest slave chains
of all.
Those forged of lies. (c) Arnaldo Lerma
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
"He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
