Super Scio - World Takeover (answering Anonymous)
The Pilot
WORLD TAKOVER (ANSWERING ANONYMOUS)
On 21 Nov, 97, Anonymous <an...@anon.efga.org> asked on
topic "For the pilot"
> Hi Pilot,
>
> On ARS I read all about the plans of the CoS and it's management
> to overtake the world. My questions are:
Management tells the ordinary Scientologists that this business
of the CofS wanting to take over the world is just the "enemy
line" meant to dead agent the CofS.
I suspect that Int Management and the SO do have ideas like
this, but many of the members would object.
Any talk of taking over the world is always excused as meaning
that the ideas and tech will spread over the world and take
it over in the sense that Christianity took over the western
world.
The active membership likes the idea of the tech spreading
all over the world. Many of them would object strenuously to
the idea of any kind of a physical takeover.
Even the loyalists would have nightmares if they thought that
the local Ethics officer or Sea Org reg might be given power
over the local city government.
So if there are intentions like this at the higher levels
within the Sea Org (and I think that there are), they are
careful never to let them be pinned down or proven because
it would drive off a lot of the membership.
> 1. Do you think that this compares to similar groups in that
> sure they state this stuff, but how real is the threat to any of us?
Unless you have a war machine like Hitler's, the threat to
us is trivial.
> 2. Doesn't current CoS activity do more damage in the long run?
As a generality, I would say yes. But I'm not sure exactly
what your question is here.
> 3. Do you think the German Government is overreacting to Scientology?
Definitely.
I think that it is very wrong for them to persecute Scientology
as a religion. That makes things worse and puts Germany in
a bad position.
They might have defensible reasons for being leary of the
Sea Org as a political organization. They should limit themselves
to that.
I really don't like it because the persecution strengthens the
loyalists. It gives them a real example of needing to unite and
support command intention because otherwise the evil goverments
(under control of the evil german psychs) will have us all
shot. The German situation almost makes this bullshit seem
real.
How many German Scientologists who were tempted to bail out
and join the freezone have turned around and decided that
they have to support the orthodox organization in its hour
of need?
If the German government had attacked and exposed the Sea Org
and the corporation only and shown truth to the ordinary
Scientologists while continuing to be nice to them, they would
have hastened the rush into the freezone.
The whole thing seems like a fiasco. Nothing good in it
for either side. But maybe it helps the CofS more than it
hinders it.
> Also please put your pgp key on a keyserver. You can submit it
> via anonymous remailers.
Its at the end of each copy of "The Scientology Reformer's
Home Page" which is up at the various websites.
Note that the top level index pages are done by the individual
hosts. None of them has thought to extract the key and make
it available separately, possibly because nobody has asked
up until now.
I posted things like the reformer's home page and reform
Scientology now / the org's grades are out, in HTML, including
the PGP key at the end, and posted them to this newsgroup. It
is the volenteer hosts who picked them up and put them onto
their web sites.
Note that even if your browser doesn't let you copy a segment
of a web page to your clipboard, you can always save the
entire page and use a text editor to copy the PGP key at
the end. I've been assuming that anyone capable of installing
PGP would also be up to pulling a key off of the end of
a webpage or extracting it from a post.
I've attached it to this post, but you should compare it
to one that is up on the web to be sure that it hasn't
been doctored on its way to you.
> My Hat's mad
Really?
Have you tried giving it electroshock?
I had a baseball cap once that thought it was a
Marcabian Fedora.
One jolt of the good old 120 volts fixed it up nicely.
Best,
The Pilot
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------------------
See the "SCIENTOLOGY REFORMER'S HOME PAGE" by the Pilot
at http://wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de/~krasel/CoS/pilot.html
or http://www.igs.net/~michaelv/scnreform.htm or
The Pilots Home Page at http://super.zippo.com/~freezone/pilot/index.htm
Get the Pilot materials (the 32 part SUPER SCIO book) at:
ftp://wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de/pub/ss/index.html
or from the Pilots Home Page or pick up the ss## files
from Homer's archive at lightlink.com.
All of this weeks posts will be collected in Super Scio Archive #16
and posted to ACT. The posting archives are also available
on The Pilots Home Page.
------------------
jf0...@navix.net
On 4 Dec 1997 14:00:13, pi...@hiddenplace.com (The Pilot) wrote:
>Someone else wrote: but the attributes weren't there:
>> 3. Do you think the German Government is overreacting to Scientology?
>If the German government had attacked and exposed the Sea Org
>and the corporation only and shown truth to the ordinary
>Scientologists while continuing to be nice to them, they would
>have hastened the rush into the freezone.
The only reason the subject has become such an issue is that the Sea
Org was attacked by having the pay taxes in lieu of being tax exempt.
They have dredged up the lamest crap to claim persecution since then.
When each fact is examined it falls short. e.g. the mediocre singer
who claims he was not allowed to perform in Germany due to his
affilication with the cult. Lo and behold, he simply was not invited
to perform at a concert sponsered by the government. If the
government sponsored the event, they could invite who they chose as
far as I am concerned.
Here in the states we rebeled against state sponsored "arts" subsidies
that take our taxes and pay people to "sponsor" people to create works
such as "Piss Jesus" where a crucifx was placed in a jar of urine and
photgraphed. Personally, I am an atheist but, I feel that the
government should not fund this type of crap. You see, I, as a rule,
respect the beliefs of other people and found the work offensive.
BUT, the most offensive thing to me was that I was forced to fund this
jerk's work. But, in defense of the artist, he has not come out and
attacked his critics. To the credit of the artist, he did not sue or
harass his critics, he just took the money and ran. (Should have been
a CoS'er, that what the Great Oval One did after all.)
===================================================
LURKER ALERT!!!!
Please note that the posters in this newsgroup who favor $cientolgy
do not respond to critisism. You will note that they attack anyone
who might pose a problem. This is called black PR by their cult.
Lies are acceptable truths when made about a cult enemy.
By the way, this so-called religion publishes lists of "enemies".
How many religions have you ever heard of that have emeny lists
and published policies to deal with enemies?
Curious? Go to any good search engine and enter "scientology".
You see, we critics are not afraid of you seeing their side, but
you will never see a pro-$cientologist post our URLs or refer you
to a search engine. They are afraid of the truth.
Klaus Bloemker
The Pilot wrote:
> WORLD TAKOVER (ANSWERING ANONYMOUS)
....
>> 3. Do you think the German Government is overreacting to
>> Scientology?
> Definitely.
....
--------------------------
I would like to make a little comment on the subject, as a complete
outsider to Scientology:
1.
In the light of the fact that Scientology has not even been able so far
to get political control over a small city like Clearwater, the German
government's reaction definitely looks like an overreaction.
(Having put Scientology under surveillance.)
2.
But the very fact that this news exchange between Anonymous and you is
anonymous, makes one wonder what kind of organization these two people
belong to.
And: I just read your 'Reformer's Homepage'. It was the strangest
reading I have had so far on Scientology. Why? Not because of the
content, on the contrary. - Because it's published anonymously!
And one wonders: What kind of organization is that where such an honest,
well worded and loyal critic is not tolerated and the author seems to be
at risk.
Another, related point, you say:
> ... it is wrong to persecute Scientology as a religion [in Germany].
Yes of course that's wrong - but do you think that's the case?
Or let me put my point this way: If you published your 'Reformer's Page'
tomorrow in Germany and had it widely distributed -- do you think
anything would happen? Do you think people or even the government would
say: 'No, this kind of religion/philosophy and this kind of organization
Pilot is outlining is not tolerable in Germany'? -:)
The Germany-Scientology thing has absolutely nothing to do with
religion/philosophy or system of belief or anything of that kind.
Klaus Bloemker
Cornelius Krasel
[Followups to a.r.s. only]
Klaus Bloemker <bloe...@metronet.de> wrote:
> The Pilot wrote:
>
>> WORLD TAKOVER (ANSWERING ANONYMOUS)
>
>> On 21 Nov, 97, Anonymous <an...@anon.efga.org> asked:
> ....
>
>>> 3. Do you think the German Government is overreacting to
>>> Scientology?
>
>> Definitely.
> ....
> Or let me put my point this way: If you published your 'Reformer's Page'
> tomorrow in Germany and had it widely distributed -- do you think
> anything would happen?
The "reformer's page" is up on a computer in Germany. So far I have heard
nothing either from OSA or from the German government.
As stated previously by Ralph, there is no indication that "Scientologists
are persecuted" on the basis of their religious belief in Germany.
--Cornelius.
--
/* Cornelius Krasel, U Wuerzburg, Dept. of Pharmacology, Versbacher Str. 9 */
/* D-97078 Wuerzburg, Germany email: pha...@rzbox.uni-wuerzburg.de SP4 */
/* "Science is the game we play with God to find out what His rules are." */
Ruanaidh
In article <3487AC...@metronet.de>, Klaus Bloemker
<bloe...@metronet.de> wrote:
>The Pilot wrote:
>
>> WORLD TAKOVER (ANSWERING ANONYMOUS)
>
>> On 21 Nov, 97, Anonymous <an...@anon.efga.org> asked:
> ....
>
>>> 3. Do you think the German Government is overreacting to
>>> Scientology?
>
>> Definitely.
> ....
>--------------------------
>
>I would like to make a little comment on the subject, as a complete
>outsider to Scientology:
>
>1.
>In the light of the fact that Scientology has not even been able so far
>to get political control over a small city like Clearwater, the German
>government's reaction definitely looks like an overreaction.
>(Having put Scientology under surveillance.)
>
Hubbard was a corrupt personality, this seems clear. His lusts were for
money and power, (sex comes a poor third?). Scientology indulges these
lusts, in addition to this his novels (eg, Battlefield Earth), express in
fantasy his lust for conspiracy, revenge and power.
But clearly he is no match for someone like Hitler, whose lust for power is
deadly, exact and brilliant. The Nazi SA was a Nazi army in waiting,
designed to replace the German army upon the seizure of the state. This
actually created a problem for Hitler upon the seizure of power, that the
SA under Roehm expected to take over or become the army power. Hitler wasnt
ready for this, as the German Army represented the only force that could
challenge him. His solution? The night of the long knives, to murder Roehm
and his followers and a thousand others. The army was grateful but
enslaved.
Hubbard set up his Sea Org, complete with snazzy uniforms, but it is
regarded as a joke by every serious politician. Hubbard was a madman, like
Koos.
>2.
>But the very fact that this news exchange between Anonymous and you is
>anonymous, makes one wonder what kind of organization these two people
>belong to.
>And: I just read your 'Reformer's Homepage'. It was the strangest
>reading I have had so far on Scientology. Why? Not because of the
>content, on the contrary. - Because it's published anonymously!
>And one wonders: What kind of organization is that where such an honest,
>well worded and loyal critic is not tolerated and the author seems to be
>at risk.
>
>Another, related point, you say:
>
>> ... it is wrong to persecute Scientology as a religion [in Germany].
>
>Yes of course that's wrong - but do you think that's the case?
>
>Or let me put my point this way: If you published your 'Reformer's Page'
>tomorrow in Germany and had it widely distributed -- do you think
>anything would happen? Do you think people or even the government would
>say: 'No, this kind of religion/philosophy and this kind of organization
>Pilot is outlining is not tolerable in Germany'? -:)
>
It is exceptionally independent, brave and courageous of ŚThe Pilotą to
criticise the cult and post to usenet, but is he brave enough to answer
this?
>The Germany-Scientology thing has absolutely nothing to do with
>religion/philosophy or system of belief or anything of that kind.
Well Mr Pilot?
>
> Klaus Bloemker
--
Ruanaidh
Bernie
land...@earth.common (Ruanaidh) wrote in article
<landless-ya0240800...@news.zip.com.au>
(alt.religion.scientology):
>In article <3487AC...@metronet.de>, Klaus Bloemker
><bloe...@metronet.de> wrote:
>>The Pilot wrote:
>>> WORLD TAKOVER (ANSWERING ANONYMOUS)
>>> On 21 Nov, 97, Anonymous <an...@anon.efga.org> asked:
>>>> 3. Do you think the German Government is overreacting to
>>>> Scientology?
>>> Definitely.
Yep. I missed that answer from the Pilot, but I am glad
that he seem to see through the situation clearly.
>>I would like to make a little comment on the subject, as a complete
>>outsider to Scientology:
>>1.
>>In the light of the fact that Scientology has not even been able so far
>>to get political control over a small city like Clearwater, the German
>>government's reaction definitely looks like an overreaction.
>>(Having put Scientology under surveillance.)
>Hubbard was a corrupt personality, this seems clear. His lusts were for
>money and power, (sex comes a poor third?). Scientology indulges these
>lusts, in addition to this his novels (eg, Battlefield Earth), express in
>fantasy his lust for conspiracy, revenge and power.
>But clearly he is no match for someone like Hitler, whose lust for power is
>deadly, exact and brilliant. The Nazi SA was a Nazi army in waiting,
>designed to replace the German army upon the seizure of the state. This
>actually created a problem for Hitler upon the seizure of power, that the
>SA under Roehm expected to take over or become the army power. Hitler wasnt
>ready for this, as the German Army represented the only force that could
>challenge him. His solution? The night of the long knives, to murder Roehm
>and his followers and a thousand others. The army was grateful but
>enslaved.
In real term you are right, but I view the danger of
ideologies as equally dangerous, whether it is Hitler's,
Hubbard's, Ayatholah (sp?), or anything else. Fanatical
ideologies or counter-ideologies are the problem. It would be
blindness for us to dismiss the fact that it could happen today.
They just take on new forms. I think Scn is one of them, but
then I also think that the zeal of the counter-movement can
bring about the very same dire consequences just as well. The
psychological mechanism behind discrimination is a subtle and
unconscious one, in which the person justifies to himself its
validity, while blinding himself about other aspects that would
contradict his unconscious purpose.
In dealing with the threat that Scn represent, one has to
keep a cool head and keep things in proportion. The biggest
mistake one can do in this respect is start to accept exceptions
to the fundamental principles edicted by a free society. The
"immediate" reaction to a threat as represented in its worst
aspect, is to start taking on fascist measures to "protect"
democracy. It just doesn't work that way. Democracy is never
protected by hysterical and fascist measures.
>Hubbard set up his Sea Org, complete with snazzy uniforms, but it is
>regarded as a joke by every serious politician. Hubbard was a madman, like
>Koos.
Exactly - which makes the Germans reaction completely
unwarranted. They can debunk the ideology and protest the abuse
all they want, but to use the power of the State in
discriminatory manner is awfully wrong. The denial of rights of
those we consider as unworthy is a tricky business, because
tomorrow someone can decide that we are the unworthy ones.
>>The Germany-Scientology thing has absolutely nothing to do with
>>religion/philosophy or system of belief or anything of that kind.
Sorry, but the Germany-Scientology thing *is* a matter or
religion/philosophy system of belief. Scientologists are
discriminated upon based on their belonging to an hated class.
You may squeamish around saying "no it's because of their
action". It is not true. What is the criteria on which the
*individuals* are judged? What action *by_this_individual* is
being reproached to him? Nothing. His mere allegiance to a
particular religion/philosophy is the criteria used. That makes
it a question of discrimination base on religion/philosophy or
system of belief.
Bernie
DeoMorto
Bernie writes:>>His mere allegiance to a
particular religion/philosophy is the criteria used. That makes
it a question of discrimination base on religion/philosophy or
system of belief.<<
So what is your point here? That governments should *not* discriminate
against anyone based on philosophy/religion or system of belief? This approach
would definitely suit Charles manson's parole hearings.
I do not follow your logic here.
The German government says that it suspects that scientology is not a
religion but merely a business that is using "religion" as a con to suck people
into it.
Merely labelling something as "religious" does not make it protected or save
it from scrutiny.
Lest you forget - Thugee is a religious sect, a "bona fide" religious sect.
Part of its belief system is the practice of strangling the unwary.
Personally speaking should someone come strolling around my neighborhood
recruiting for Thugee I would be more than happy to seem them being
investigated.
As I have said before I do not trust mob mentalities and band wagons, the
german government and its employees should not be orchestrating pr campaigns
against the cofS - they should, if they suspect that it is a complex con game -
merely compile the evidence and haul the various corporations and officers into
the dock and get them sentenced based on the public presentation of evidence.