is there value in auditing

[ear...@gci.net]

just wondering

[blackdove]

earl...@gci.net wrote:
> just wondering

I imagine that auditing has a similar value to the therapeutic value
you get out of talking about your issues, getting things off of your
chest.

Rather moot question for most... baby goes out with the bathwater and
all.

-blackdove

[ear...@gci.net]

ok

[ear...@gci.net]

Yes

[Muldoon]

earl...@gci.net wrote:
> ok

Like almost everything in Hubbard's Scientology, "Auditing" is
stratified and compartmentalized.

It starts out with such things as asking, "Can you recall a time you
were happy," and leads, eventually to the Hubbardian labyrinth where
one is expected to be immensely grateful for being told what happened
"4 quadrillion years ago."

"Auditing" is many things. As an activity, it is done in an environment
- a context - and that which "frames" the action of "auditing"
influences any action that is called auditing.

The word, in its most basic and benign sense means "listening." And,
technically, anyone who listens to another is an "auditor."

Scientology PR people take advantage of the multiple definitions and
applications (some good, some not good) of "auditing." They do this by
placing on display an obviously - in itself - benign or beneficial
application of "auditing."

Then, to complete the PR manipulation effort, someone stands up and
shouts, "Auditing is (always) hypnosis," etc.

And then the Scientology PR person performs a demonstration, asking
another, "Can you recall a time you were happy?" And explains that's
"auditing."

And the "critic" looks foolish.

Scientology "auditing," starts out benign and ends up, to put it
crudely, as "mind f__k."

[ear...@gci.net]

YES

[ear...@gci.net]

If you were an auditor, it starts, out a postion of trust and ends up
a postion of trust

[Muldoon]

That's because, in Hubbard's Scientology, the action of "getting things
off your chest" is used, ultimately, as a lead-in to something quite
different.

This creates a confusion.

And, as you may have noticed, Hubbard's Scientology cult loves to -
covertly - create confusion.

[RolandRB]

ear...@gci.net wrote:
> just wondering

I've been subjected to many hours of it and for me it was just very
tiring and very boring and a HUGE waste of money. But for others it can
seem beneficial.

[Lisa Ruby]

Muldoon,

Your entire post was most interesting. You wrote in summary,

>Scientology "auditing," starts out benign and ends up, to put it
>crudely, as "mind f__k."

Would you be willing to take the time to post examples of
auditing that you consider to be benign and some examples
of auditing procedures that you know are harmful?

Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net

[RolandRB]

Lisa Ruby wrote:
> Muldoon,
>
> Your entire post was most interesting. You wrote in summary,
> >Scientology "auditing," starts out benign and ends up, to put it
> >crudely, as "mind f__k."
>
> Would you be willing to take the time to post examples of
> auditing that you consider to be benign and some examples
> of auditing procedures that you know are harmful?

I'll have a go. Recalling pleasant incidents might be beneficial.
Auditing out your body thetans that you haven't got and being
controlled so much by this stage that you think you have them could be
termed a "minf f__k":

[Kim Palmer]

blackdove wrote:

auditing on the emeter at exorbitant prices is silly - talking things
through with a trusted friend is much more beneficial in the long run

Auditing in and of itself is nothing more than talk therapy with the
emeter for show. Problem with auditing in the cult is the fact that
your folders can be and have been culled for damaging information to be
used against a person should they ever decide that this "religion" is
not for them.

If you need help seek it somewhere other than the cult of scientology -
a trusted friend, a professional, or clergy member.

Kim P

[RolandRB]

Kim Palmer wrote:
> blackdove wrote:
>
> > earl...@gci.net wrote:
> >
> >>just wondering
> >
> >
> > I imagine that auditing has a similar value to the therapeutic value
> > you get out of talking about your issues, getting things off of your
> > chest.
> >
> > Rather moot question for most... baby goes out with the bathwater and
> > all.
> >
> > -blackdove
> >
>
> auditing on the emeter at exorbitant prices is silly - talking things
> through with a trusted friend is much more beneficial in the long run
>
> Auditing in and of itself is nothing more than talk therapy with the
> emeter for show. Problem with auditing in the cult is the fact that
> your folders can be and have been culled for damaging information to be
> used against a person should they ever decide that this "religion" is
> not for them.

Obviously you never trained as a Scientology auditor.

[barb]

blackdove wrote:

Any benefits of Scientology auditing come tainted with all the abuse and
crap they've pulled in the past and continue to perpetrate.

There are other types of therapy which involve talking it out, that
don't require huge sums of money later on for imaginary Powerzz.

Short answer: yes.
Long answer: running away would be better.

--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net

"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.

Welcome to the Church of Scientology."

--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander

[gazza]

judging from the fruit of the scientology tree, auditing doesn't make a
better person. I've seen people audited through OT 5 and didn't give a
damn when their best friend and comrade was institutionalised and died.

I certainly wouldn't want to be audited so I would end up a worse
person than I am.

Auditing fills a persons mind with so much evil and false ideas, they
lose all sense od civility.

[Eldonbraun]

Muldoon wrote:
> earl...@gci.net wrote:
> > ok
>
> Like almost everything in Hubbard's Scientology, "Auditing" is
> stratified and compartmentalized.
>
> It starts out with such things as asking, "Can you recall a time you
> were happy," and leads, eventually to the Hubbardian labyrinth where
> one is expected to be immensely grateful for being told what happened
> "4 quadrillion years ago."

Yup. The original Dianetics auditing, oversold as it was, probably did
relieve some emotional difficulties and psychosomatic conditions. Life
repair and Grades I through IV are relatively
innocuous. But the whole bit of jamming people earlier similar into
past track confabulation is a sham.

I would recommend that anyone who wants to try auditing as a form of
regression thereapy check out Traumatic Incident Reducation (TIR) as
refined by Frank "Sarge" Gerbode (He is a rarity--a former
Scientologist trained in psychiatry.) I think he did a legitimate and
ethical job of trying to sift out whatever was worthwhile in the first
place. And his people are not running a cult, so they won't try to
brainwash you.

[Fredric L. Rice]

ear...@gci.net wrote:

>just wondering

Of course there is! Suckers pay millions so there's a great
deal of value in selling them the scam.

---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
"Sex is only perverted if it implants voracious alien parasites in your
bladder or rectum." -- nu-monet v8.0

[Quaoar]

"gazza" <garyb...@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1131719898....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

You obviously were not entirely depleted of your Wog value systems by
the kult: '...worse person than I am...' is a remnant of your previous
Woggish life and [snikker] its failed ethical system. Furthermore,
'Auditing fills a persons mind with so much evil and false ideas...' is
more than a slight tendency to resist the indoc. I trust you did not
spend much cash on processing. You are obviously PTS. Someone should
have been RPF'd since you were not discovered!

Have you ever obliterated a planet?

Q

[Hartley Patterson]

ear...@gci.net:

> just wondering

Some people say so, yes. Giving money to the Church of Scientology to
obtain it is of negative overall value, since you just screwed up ethically
big time. Your money will be spent on spreading corruption, lies and
pseudoscience.

Auditing is, like Catholic confession and psychiatry, a system for sorting
out the mysteries of your mind. For many people any system is better than
nothing and having a system, preferably complex, imposed on them is better
than thinking for themselves.

I'm being unduely cynical. There are others who see these systems for what
they should be, tools rather than belief systems.

--
Alt.Religion.Scientology FAQ
http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/faq.htm

[blackdove]

Yes, it'd be hard to try to extract the good without being reminded of
the taint. But I think the FZ may serve a good purpose for
ex-Scientologists in transition who disagree with CoS mgt but like the
tech. Wading out rather than freefall. Personally, as an outsider I
want nothing to do with any of it, now that I've gotten a good taste of
what's involved.

It's a good overall question... should we reject the art after we've
rejected the artist? (Not that I'm calling LRH an artist. Ugh.) This
was the dilemma of the medical world, after receiving ill-gotten
research out of the Nazi regime.

Marion Zimmer Bradley married a pedophile and may have contributed to
the abuse of her children. Should we reject her art, the good of her
art, to pull support from the artist ? I'm never quite sure.

HOLY CRAP! I googled MZB and found this.

On L. Ron Hubbard: "I knew Ron when he was a small time crook".

Small world, that.

-blackdove

[Lisa Ruby]

gazza wrote:
> judging from the fruit of the scientology tree, auditing doesn't make a
> better person. I've seen people audited through OT 5 and didn't give a
> damn when their best friend and comrade was institutionalised and died.

Can someone give me some examples of auditing procedures that result in

of deadened emotions?

Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net

[Ball of Fluff]

"blackdove" <januar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131684697....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

And that's what we Scientologists say about psychology based therapies...

C

[Ball of Fluff]

gazza wrote:
> judging from the fruit of the scientology tree, auditing doesn't make a
> better person. I've seen people audited through OT 5 and didn't give a
> damn when their best friend and comrade was institutionalised and died.

Well, I would.

My husband would.

Our Scn'ist friends would.

The Freezone Scn'ists I know would.

A number of CofS Scn'ists I know would.

>
> I certainly wouldn't want to be audited so I would end up a worse
> person than I am.

A lot of that is what one brings to it, coupled with cultic
indoctrination.

Since not all Scn'ists are in CofS, not all Scn'ists wind up with the
latter factor.

C

[RolandRB]

Lisa Ruby wrote:
> gazza wrote:
> > judging from the fruit of the scientology tree, auditing doesn't make a
> > better person. I've seen people audited through OT 5 and didn't give a
> > damn when their best friend and comrade was institutionalised and died.
>
> Can someone give me some examples of auditing procedures that result in
>
> of deadened emotions?

What about the TRs? Training people into becoming unblinking automatons
who do not react to anything. And that's just the start.

I am wondering whether this poster is a bot.