Actor Steve Allen's Open Letter to Heber Jentzsch
Fredric L. Rice
Church of Scientology. (As printed in Skeptic Magazine,
Volume 5, Number 1, 1997 and keyed-in by Fredric L. Rice.)
May 11, 1995. When I ran into uyou at an airport a few
weeks ago, there was no opportunity to have a talk, but
since I have about 49 seconds free between appointments at
this office this morning is occurs to me that you might be
interested in an idea that I have suggested to you and other
Scientologists before.
When I spoke at a convention in the East quite a few months
ago, a convention at which a dozen or so Scientologists
were in attendance, I said something to them along the
following lines.
"If I may make a suggestion to you folks, whatever your
purly religious views are, you're entitled to them and
they are more or less in the category of not anyone
else's business.
"But I also suggest that it is not because of those
views that your group doesn't have a very good
reputation. There are other churches that, in the
opinion of non-members, have some truly bizarre beliefs
but no one dislikes the individual members as a result
of those beliefs.
"The Mormons are a perfect example. No non-Mormon on
Earth accepts a word of Mormon assertions about the
experiences of Joseph Smith, visits with angels, golden
plates, etc. But despite that fact the Mormons have a
very good social reputation. A number of my personal
friends are Mormons and they are for the most part
lovely and socially decent people.
"But -- again -- the same _cannot_ be said of
Scientologists. And if I were you it would occur to
me to wonder why. So, to save you a little wondering
time, I'll tell you why right now. You have the
reputation as just about the worst bullies this side
of the National Rifle Association. I've talked this
over with some of you and you've said that the terrible
harassments and crimes are a thing of the past. that
you've learned from your earlier mistakes, etc. That
may be true and I certainly hope that it is, not only
for your sake but for the sake of everyone else
concerned. But to be honest, many people doubt that
Scientology has reform itself in this particular
regard."
As I say, Heber, those couldn't possibly have been my actual
words but they do represent the point I was making at the
convention. Really shameful harassments, telephone threats,
and similar offenses are continuing to be perpetrated by
individual Scientologists. Now it is theoretically possible
that you personally don't know about the above incidents.
It may even be that you have advised your fellow-believers
to cease that sort of harassment, either because you are a
marvelous fellow and recognize the evil for what it is, or
because you've realized -- purly out of the church's
self-interest -- that that kind of conduct is precisely the
sort of "public relations" which has gotten the Church of
Scientology into such a bad odor in the first place.
If you are simply being devious and dishonest yourself and
are perfectly aware of the kind of harassment which has
been for a good many years typical of Scientology's
response to perfectly fair criticism, then I don't really
know what I have to say to you except to implore you to
consider the possibility of reforming yourself individually
and then trying to spread the good word to your fellow
believers. Hey, maybe you should just walk away from
Scientology and go back to the Mormon fold.
-- Steve Allen Van Nuys, California.
The Skeptics Society
Post Office Box 338
Altadena, CA. 91001
skept...@aol.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
26/May/00 Note by Fredric L. Rice:
Most will recognize Mr. Steve Allen as a well-known actor who may
also be widely recognized for having performed outside of comedy
in the old "Chock Full of Nuts" coffee commercials which once aired
on commercial television.
Mr. Steve Allen, however, is also a skeptic, a Humanist, a member
of the Intelligencia who offers American social and political
commentary, and is an author of numerous books including:
'"Dumbth" And 81 ways to make Americans Smarter.' Mr. Allen's
office has an E-Mail address which I'll pass along to members of
the ARSCC for legitimate contacts if you're interested.
This open letter appears to have been written before Mr. Heber
Jentzsch and 68 other Scientology officials and fall-guys were
arrested in Madrid, Spain, for exactly the type of offenses
which Mr. Allen underscores in his open letter. And it appears
as though Mr. Allen isn't aware of Heber's history inside of the
Scientology organization, or of the way that Heber Jentzsch
acquired the mock title of "International President" of the
criminal organization. Other than those areas, it does appear
as though Mr. Steve Allen is fully up on what Scientology is.
--- "de omnibus dubitandum" All is to be doubted --- Descartes
24-hour file archive access: (626) 335-9601 (FidoNet 1:218/890.0) SP4
The Skeptic Tank: http://www.skeptictank.org/ http://www.xenu.net/
Fredric L. Rice
>Part of the reason Steve Allen might have felt the way he did is that
>his name and address were kept in a file at Celebrity Centre for years,
>and despite many attempts on his part to get off the mailing list, they
>were disregarded under the misinformed idea that eventually he would
>give in and *get on the bridge*. I know, because I think he was the only
That's very intereting. I wonder if Steve Allen covers that aspect
of his "involvement" with the cult. I suppose that the Church of
Scientology maintains folders for every well-known celebrity regardless
of whether they've ever offered a nice word or told the crooks to fuck
off -- in polite, professional terms, of course.
I'd bet that the Church of Scientology does maintain folders on every
celebrity regardless.
>hymn of asia through the mail. But when LeMoine said in a letter that
>the true test of scientology would be if it survived after hubbard's
>death, that's when I, as a trained attack dog, *dead-filed* the
>congenial Mr. LeMoine, who was of the opinion scientology would not
>survive. He was right as rain.
Scientology -- the organization -- didn't survive the IRS. What's
passing for Scientology inside of the organization now is something
quite different than the Scientology that L. Ron Hubbard created.
>I wonder what poor old fuming heber's gonna do when the ship goes down.
Hopefully Mr. Jentzsch will be in prison in Madrid shortly.
XxxMisterEarlxxx
Great letter;thanks for posting it.
Steve Allen also knows about cults from personal experience.One of his sons
joined a cult and "disconnected" completely from his family for years.It wasn't
Scn--I believe it was a Christian fundamentalist group.
Allen wrote about it in an autobiographical book that I think was published in
the mid- to late-80's.At that time,his son was still in the cult but had
re-established a small amount of contact;allowing Steve and his wife to see
their grandchildren for the first time,for instance.
Starshadow
XxxMisterEarlxxx <xxxmiste...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000528045601...@ng-bd1.aol.com...
> FR...@SkepticTank.ORG wrote:
>
(snip great letter for brevity)
> Great letter;thanks for posting it.
> Steve Allen also knows about cults from personal experience.One of his
sons
> joined a cult and "disconnected" completely from his family for years.It
wasn't
> Scn--I believe it was a Christian fundamentalist group.
Well, sorta kinda. They were called the "Love Israel" group. They used to
reside on Queen Anne in Seattle. Members got in trouble because they didn't
believe in i.d. and had to carry one to drive--a compromise was eventually
worked out whereby a generic id with "Israel"--members' last names were
changed to "Israel" and their first names were stuff like "Love" (the
founder) and "Peace" (which I seem to remember was Allen's son) and so on.
They lived communally and were the 80's hippie hangover types. Made nice
handmade crafts and stuff.
> Allen wrote about it in an autobiographical book that I think was
published in
> the mid- to late-80's.At that time,his son was still in the cult but had
> re-established a small amount of contact;allowing Steve and his wife to
see
> their grandchildren for the first time,for instance.
The group eventually morphed into something more respectable and I
think --if memory serves me--they moved to Eastern Washington to some small
town which likes them just fine.
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow (SP4, KoX) (remove lovesxenu to reply)
"Feminism--the radical notion that women are people, too"
The Skipster
his name and address were kept in a file at Celebrity Centre for years,
and despite many attempts on his part to get off the mailing list, they
were disregarded under the misinformed idea that eventually he would
give in and *get on the bridge*. I know, because I think he was the only
of people in those files. I once got Roy LeMoine, a professor who had
been in the hospital with hubbard, to correspond with me and even buy a
the true test of scientology would be if it survived after hubbard's
death, that's when I, as a trained attack dog, *dead-filed* the
congenial Mr. LeMoine, who was of the opinion scientology would not
survive. He was right as rain.
I wonder what poor old fuming heber's gonna do when the ship goes down.
In article <sj1jfq4...@corp.supernews.com>, fr...@skeptictank.org
wrote:
--
They don't want you until you have made a name, and by the time you have
made a name, you have developed some kind of talent they can't use. All
they will do is spoil it, if you let them. -- Raymond Chandler
Fredric L. Rice
>I have no idea what's going on at the sand castle (and don't care) but
They're squirreling the tech by making all OT7's perform six-month
security checks -- in direct violation of Hubbard's written policies.
There's only two motivations for that: The revenue that having to go
to Clearwater for these squirrel techs brings in, and the paranoid
need to find traitors among their OT7's before they run to the police
and rat out everything they know.
>I'll tell you this, if Chick Corea moved to Clearwater and now Kirstie
>Alley (at least part time), that's a bit of "circling the wagons" to me.
>And their careers will greatly suffer because of it. As to the numbers,
>they don't come up with many new big celebs very often.
There's some indication, I think, that there is consolidation of the
Scientology offices around the world. With the closure of offices and
the decline in car counts over the past five years, moving their people
to Clearwater and to Los Angeles would be the smart thing to do if the
bad guys are finding it difficult to pay their bills.
The Skipster
wrote:
>That's very intereting. I wonder if Steve Allen covers that aspect
>of his "involvement" with the cult. I suppose that the Church of
>Scientology maintains folders for every well-known celebrity regardless
>of whether they've ever offered a nice word or told the crooks to fuck
>off -- in polite, professional terms, of course.
>
>I'd bet that the Church of Scientology does maintain folders on every
>celebrity regardless.
Not true from my experience. It would be stupid to do so and I'm sure
they don't have the manpower now any more than they did when I was
there. In 1976 the department I ran at celebrity centre was the first
one in the area to ever catch up all the bad addresses etc. so that all
the files and addresses were current. I saw every single file there and
no one was in it unless Yvonne Jentzsch said to start one. The policy
was they had to buy a book or service. If they did a service, even the
beginning communications course, they were forever after considered a
*member*. That used to make Lou Rawls (who did a course in Vegas) nuts.
Same with impersonator/entertainer Fred Travelena, another Vegas
perennial who is a devout Christian. Steve Allen did NOT buy a service
there but Yvonne found out he'd read the dianetics book once, so she
started a file.
They're nuttily desperate to get every single celebrity possible,
though. They almost got Demi Moore until Bruce Willis ruled it out. And
then there was the Jim Carrey and buddies goof that must still drive
them crazy (Carrey feigned interest as a joke).
Listen, I know most of the people who are still there. Most of them are
incompetent at jobs in the real world. I saw them leave and come back
because they just couldn't make it. Never in a BILLION YEARS could they
pull off getting lots of celebrities involved -- they just have too bad
a reputation in Hollywood, from years and years of bad deeds on their
part.
Phil Scott
>--
>
>They don't want you until you have made a name, and by the time you have
>made a name, you have developed some kind of talent they can't use. All
>they will do is spoil it, if you let them. -- Raymond Chandler
Nice post Raymond, and I think its pretty close to the actual
situation.
Mike McClaughry's testimony though (OSA in Sacramento, SF and LA)
tells a different story of absolutely extensive infiltration,
espionage and data gathering in govt and corporate offices. One would
be hard pressed not to imagine that Hollywood had not been
infiltratred as well, we know of several drama, singing and dance
coaches who are scientogists and several hollywood financial
advisors... on thinks it would be almost unheard for the cult not to
have accessed those files.....the blackmail possibilities would be
endless.
Best Regards, Phil Scott
The Skipster
(Phil Scott) wrote:
>>--
>>
>>They don't want you until you have made a name, and by the time you have
>>made a name, you have developed some kind of talent they can't use. All
>>they will do is spoil it, if you let them. -- Raymond Chandler
>
>Nice post Raymond, and I think its pretty close to the actual
>situation.
>
>Mike McClaughry's testimony though (OSA in Sacramento, SF and LA)
>tells a different story of absolutely extensive infiltration,
>espionage and data gathering in govt and corporate offices. One would
>be hard pressed not to imagine that Hollywood had not been
>infiltratred as well, we know of several drama, singing and dance
>coaches who are scientogists and several hollywood financial
>advisors... on thinks it would be almost unheard for the cult not to
>have accessed those files.....the blackmail possibilities would be
>endless.
Hollywood is a small town. I know it well. The people who are
scientologists are well-known IN HOLLYWOOD as scientologists. Milton
Katselas as an acting teacher, for example. But he's had plenty of bad
press about some of the ridiculous scientology org-think techniques he
uses, like basically requiring students to attend a gallery opening of
some of his art, and coercing them into buying.
Infiltrating government offices and corporate offices is a completely
different story and is well-documented. Your Hollywood suspicion is pure
speculation, and frankly I don't think they're smart enough to pull it
off. Unfortunately, you have a very common but very misinformed attitude
that *Hollywood* is like some big organized corporate thing. It's not.
There are plenty of big companies and a few big studios, and I'm sure
there are a number of scientologists working in these places, because
often when someone is going to make a movie that has something critical
about scientology in it, lawsuits are threatened and it gets quashed.
That happened with director Richard Donner, who hates scientology. The
MUCH bigger story is all the former scientologists who have done very
well in Hollywood and want absolutely nothing to do with it. Kirstie
Alley even had one on her show. They far, far outnumber the scientology
celebrities, many of whom are looked upon in the Hollywood community as
being absolutely lunatics.
Phil Scott
<NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com> wrote:
Now that was interesting, it hadn't occurred to me that there would be
more ex scn movie stars that active ones, but thats the stat outside
the movies. That bodes well indeed. And that would account for the
absolutely great anti scn movies we've had, very artfully and very
accurately done. Like Wild Palms...
regarding your assessment that the cult is only infiltrated at the
occasional employee level, that might be close... but there are the
cult investment counselors, in beverly hills that Im sure are feedig
data to the cult just as the Kasellas or whatever his name is, is
doing.... I am delighted to hear about the ex's .. wonderful.
Whats your take on the numbers...seems more and more movie stars these
days are cult members. Did it peak say in 95 and level or is
growing? Id say with the mess at the sand castle its gong to be
taking a BIG dive soon/
Phil Scott
The Skipster
>>Hollywood is a small town. I know it well. The people who are
>>scientologists are well-known IN HOLLYWOOD as scientologists. Milton
>>Katselas as an acting teacher, for example. But he's had plenty of bad
>>press about some of the ridiculous scientology org-think techniques he
>>uses, like basically requiring students to attend a gallery opening of
>>some of his art, and coercing them into buying.
>>
>>Infiltrating government offices and corporate offices is a completely
>>different story and is well-documented. Your Hollywood suspicion is pure
>>speculation, and frankly I don't think they're smart enough to pull it
>>off. Unfortunately, you have a very common but very misinformed attitude
>>that *Hollywood* is like some big organized corporate thing. It's not.
>>There are plenty of big companies and a few big studios, and I'm sure
>>there are a number of scientologists working in these places, because
>>often when someone is going to make a movie that has something critical
>>about scientology in it, lawsuits are threatened and it gets quashed.
>>That happened with director Richard Donner, who hates scientology. The
>>MUCH bigger story is all the former scientologists who have done very
>>well in Hollywood and want absolutely nothing to do with it. Kirstie
>>Alley even had one on her show. They far, far outnumber the scientology
>>celebrities, many of whom are looked upon in the Hollywood community as
>>being absolutely lunatics.
In article <39320ab9...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com
(Phil Scott) wrote:
Most of the people who get into scientology celebrity-wise are ACTORS.
Actors are generally very neurotic people who need emotional bolstering.
Just take a look at the *big guns* in scientology and you'll see what I
mean. The last time I saw Jenna Elfman my wife and I had coffee with her
and she was very bubbly and quite charming, but not yet a TV star. She
told me she was going to be a star and I agreed. She just had it. I told
Kirstie Alley the same thing once at a party before she ever had a role.
But they've both become harder and strangely self-absorbed the longer
they're in scientology. This does not go unnoticed in the Hollywood
community, which can be very odd but is also very giving. When Travolta
told Jerry Lewis he wouldn't do his annual fund-raiser because sick kids
had degraded beings in the back of their neck, it didn't go over very
well. Same with Elfman and the charities she's turned down recently.
This "help the bay" bullshit Maria Ferrara and celebrity centre were
trying to pull off out in Malibu is not sincere and it's seen through
very easily.
A number of actors have gotten into scientology via Milton Katselas
acting workshop in Beverly Hills, but most of the actors coming up are
second generation scientologists who don't know any better. Vonni and
Marisa Ribisi, etc. They're great kids but they are indoctrinated
against believing the real crap that goes on, because they're buffered
away from it.
I have no idea what's going on at the sand castle (and don't care) but
I'll tell you this, if Chick Corea moved to Clearwater and now Kirstie
Alley (at least part time), that's a bit of "circling the wagons" to me.
And their careers will greatly suffer because of it. As to the numbers,
they don't come up with many new big celebs very often. There is an old
policy that celebrity centre should go after only (a) people on their
way up (like Elfman) and (b) people down or on their way down,
career-wise (like Isaac Hayes was).
Hollywood has moved on from the faddishness of scientology. The big
stars are currently into the kabbala (like Madonna). That will change,
no doubt, but it won't swing back to scientology. That's over.
JimDBB
>From: The Skipster NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com
>Date: 5/29/00 12:14 PM Central
>After I wrote:
>
>>>Hollywood is a small town. I know it well. The people who are
>>>scientologists are well-known IN HOLLYWOOD as scientologists. Milton
>>>Katselas as an acting teacher, for example. But he's had plenty of bad
Your post was very interesting and I won't quote all of it again. But I will
ask you to comment on your John Travolta-Jerry Lewis statement.
>When Travolta
>told Jerry Lewis he wouldn't do his annual fund-raiser because sick kids
>had degraded beings in the back of their neck, it didn't go over very
>well.
As much as I despise Travolta for shilling for the abusive scientology cult I
don't believe that he ever told Jerry Lewis that sick kids "had degraded beings
in the back of their neck."
JImDBB
The Skipster
wrote:
>The Skipster <NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>I have no idea what's going on at the sand castle (and don't care) but
>
>They're squirreling the tech by making all OT7's perform six-month
>security checks -- in direct violation of Hubbard's written policies.
>
>There's only two motivations for that: The revenue that having to go
>to Clearwater for these squirrel techs brings in, and the paranoid
>need to find traitors among their OT7's before they run to the police
>and rat out everything they know.
>
>>I'll tell you this, if Chick Corea moved to Clearwater and now Kirstie
>>Alley (at least part time), that's a bit of "circling the wagons" to me.
>>And their careers will greatly suffer because of it. As to the numbers,
>>they don't come up with many new big celebs very often.
>
>There's some indication, I think, that there is consolidation of the
>Scientology offices around the world. With the closure of offices and
>the decline in car counts over the past five years, moving their people
>to Clearwater and to Los Angeles would be the smart thing to do if the
>bad guys are finding it difficult to pay their bills.
VERY interesting. And all too bad. I knew some fine people (including
Chick, but he can be clueless about things other than jazz). All this
stuff about *endless billions* just doesn't jive with *running ahead of
the avalanche* situations I always saw while involved. Some of the more
basic scientology processes do some good, and I think a lot of the
people mean well, they're just deluded due to a goddamned maniac named
hubbard.
Tilman Hausherr
<NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com> wrote in
<NOSPAMTOskip_press-B...@news.earthlink.net>:
>I have no idea what's going on at the sand castle (and don't care) but
>I'll tell you this, if Chick Corea moved to Clearwater and now Kirstie
>Alley (at least part time), that's a bit of "circling the wagons" to me.
>And their careers will greatly suffer because of it. As to the numbers,
>they don't come up with many new big celebs very often. There is an old
>policy that celebrity centre should go after only (a) people on their
>way up (like Elfman) and (b) people down or on their way down,
>career-wise (like Isaac Hayes was).
Chick Corea never really was a celebrity. Unless you are one of the 156
jazz listeners. I never heard of him before his 1993 whining for not
being able to get paid state monies for a concert. Even people who have
heard of him say that his "good" music was 20 years ago.
Kirstie Alley is on her way down. She became famous for being beautiful
and funny. Now she is ugly and no longer funny, and Hollywood doesn't
pay that. She is a has-been.
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.xenu.de
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
The Skipster
til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>Chick Corea never really was a celebrity. Unless you are one of the 156
>jazz listeners. I never heard of him before his 1993 whining for not
>being able to get paid state monies for a concert. Even people who have
>heard of him say that his "good" music was 20 years ago.
You're out of your fucking mind. He's one of the very best jazz pianists
ever. He's in the Playboy Jazz Hall of Fame. I personally saw Paul
McCartney and Keith Moon and dozens of other top rock stars go a bit
apeshit about meeting him at a party.
Other than disagreeing with him about scientology, I'm not knocking
Chick and I sure as hell won't degrade his accomplishments. He was
always nice to me and I think he's a decent guy, other than being a bit
deluded about a lot of what really goes on behind the scenes in
scientology. He's just caught in a cult, that's all. That all disappears
when he starts playing the piano -- it's just unreal how good he is.
The Skipster
jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote:
>As much as I despise Travolta for shilling for the abusive scientology
>cult I don't believe that he ever told Jerry Lewis that sick kids "had
>degraded beings in the back of their neck."
Travolta had a couple of gay managers, one male, one female. Bob LeMond
and Lois Zetter, I believed. This happened about 1980 as I recall.
Freaked Lewis out, and when he called LeMond about it, freaked him out.
I don't give a flying fuck if you believe me or not. When I say
something, I know very well what I'm talking about.
Fredric L. Rice
>>Subject: Re: Actor Steve Allen's Open Letter to Heber Jentzsch
>>From: The Skipster NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com
>>Date: 5/29/00 12:14 PM Central
>>After I wrote:
>>>>Hollywood is a small town. I know it well. The people who are
>>>>scientologists are well-known IN HOLLYWOOD as scientologists. Milton
>>>>Katselas as an acting teacher, for example. But he's had plenty of bad
>Your post was very interesting and I won't quote all of it again.
I'm finding it very interesting as well.
>>When Travolta
>>told Jerry Lewis he wouldn't do his annual fund-raiser because sick kids
>>had degraded beings in the back of their neck, it didn't go over very
>>well.
>As much as I despise Travolta for shilling for the abusive scientology cult I
>don't believe that he ever told Jerry Lewis that sick kids "had degraded beings
>in the back of their neck."
I see that there's no well documented source for the notion and that
Mr. Skipster doesn't know of one. Yet we've seen this mentioned before
several years ago, haven't we? It's not a new notion to come to a.r.s.
If Mr. Travolta has purchased OT3, he knows about Xenu and body thetans
and Hubbard's insane notions which would give Travolta this other insane
notion. Hell, it does look as though Travoluta knows who Xenu is since
every time Xenu shows up in a crowd, he hides. }:-}
Fredric L. Rice
>In article <20000529142138...@ng-fc1.aol.com>,
>jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote:
>>As much as I despise Travolta for shilling for the abusive scientology
>>cult I don't believe that he ever told Jerry Lewis that sick kids "had
>>degraded beings in the back of their neck."
>Travolta had a couple of gay managers, one male, one female. Bob LeMond
>and Lois Zetter, I believed. This happened about 1980 as I recall.
>Freaked Lewis out, and when he called LeMond about it, freaked him out.
>I don't give a flying fuck if you believe me or not. When I say
>something, I know very well what I'm talking about.
Hell, no accusations are made here, I don't think. This is something that
has been commented on before in the past and it would be really nice to be
able to find a newspaper reference on this -- or even better, a condemnation
by Jerry Lewis' staff covering Travolta's alleged statement.
Without a checkable reference, it's got to remain anecdotal, you know. It
_is_ in keeping with Hubbard's insane notions about the basis of human
sickness, mental and physical.
Paul Murray
news:39320ab9...@news.tdl.com...
> On Mon, 29 May 2000 05:48:05 GMT, The Skipster
> <NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> And that would account for the
> absolutely great anti scn movies we've had, very artfully and very
> accurately done. Like Wild Palms...
Are there any other anti-scientology movies? I've never heard of "Wild
Palms".
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.users.bigpond.com/pmurray
ICQ: 26066755
JimDBB
>From: The Skipster NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com
lJImDBB wrote:
>>As much as I despise Travolta for shilling for the abusive scientology
>>cult I don't believe that he ever told Jerry Lewis that sick kids "had
>>degraded beings in the back of their neck."
>Travolta had a couple of gay managers, one male, one female. Bob LeMond
>and Lois Zetter, I believed. This happened about 1980 as I recall.
>Freaked Lewis out, and when he called LeMond about it, freaked him out.
>I don't give a flying fuck if you believe me or not. When I say
>something, I know very well what I'm talking about.
Your reply makes no sense and answers nothing. I'll repeat what I said...I
don't believe that John Travolta ever told Jerry Lewis that sick kids had
degraded beings in the back of their neck.
JImDBB
JimDBB
>Chick Corea never really was a celebrity. Unless you are one of the 156
>jazz listeners. I never heard of him before his 1993 whining for not
>being able to get paid state monies for a concert. Even people who have
>heard of him say that his "good" music was 20 years ago.
>
>Kirstie Alley is on her way down. She became famous for being beautiful
>and funny. Now she is ugly and no longer funny, and Hollywood doesn't
>pay that. She is a has-been.
>
>--
>Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5] Entheta
Tilman: The truth is that Chick Corea is of the the top pianists and his
success and influence reaches beyond the jazz world. It is a shame that he
continues to shill for the scientology cult. I have written published letters
about this to two jazz magazines. I was lured into scientology in part by
Corea. But it is pointless to try and denigrate his musical artistry.
And I doubt very much that Kirstie Alley is a has-been.
I believe that there is far too much useless and pointless disparagement of the
scientology celebrities. Let us expose them when they are involved with
scientology's devious and destructive activities but let's leave them off of
the ARS otherwise.
JImDBB
Roland
>
> >Subject: Re: Actor Steve Allen's Open Letter to Heber Jentzsch
> >From: til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr)
>
> >Chick Corea never really was a celebrity. Unless you are one of the 156
> >jazz listeners. I never heard of him before his 1993 whining for not
> >being able to get paid state monies for a concert. Even people who have
> >heard of him say that his "good" music was 20 years ago.
> >
> >Kirstie Alley is on her way down. She became famous for being beautiful
> >and funny. Now she is ugly and no longer funny, and Hollywood doesn't
> >pay that. She is a has-been.
> >
> >--
> >Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5] Entheta
>
> Tilman: The truth is that Chick Corea is of the the top pianists and his
> success and influence reaches beyond the jazz world. It is a shame that he
> continues to shill for the scientology cult. I have written published letters
> about this to two jazz magazines. I was lured into scientology in part by
> Corea. But it is pointless to try and denigrate his musical artistry.
>
> And I doubt very much that Kirstie Alley is a has-been.
Is she still a fat cow?
> I believe that there is far too much useless and pointless disparagement of the
> scientology celebrities. Let us expose them when they are involved with
> scientology's devious and destructive activities but let's leave them off of
> the ARS otherwise.
>
> JImDBB
But nowhere near as fat as that mountain of lard, John Travolta.
Roland
--
"I notice that we all believe that Venus has a methane atmosphere and
is unlivable. I almost got run down by a freight locomotive the other
day -- didn't look very uncivilized to me." - L. Ron Hubbard,
"Between Lives Implants" lecture, SHSBC #317. 23 July 1963.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Venusloc.ram
The Skipster
jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote:
>I'll repeat what I said...I
>don't believe that John Travolta ever told Jerry Lewis that sick kids had
>degraded beings in the back of their neck.
Well then, I have the perfect solution for you. Call Jerry Lewis. And
then when he says yes and you don't believe him, call John Travolta. And
then when he denies it, figure out another approach.
Dave Bird
<jim...@aol.com> writes:
>Tilman: The truth is that Chick Corea is of the the top pianists and his
>success and influence reaches beyond the jazz world. It is a shame that he
>continues to shill for the scientology cult. I have written published letters
>about this to two jazz magazines. I was lured into scientology in part by
>Corea. But it is pointless to try and denigrate his musical artistry.
>
>And I doubt very much that Kirstie Alley is a has-been.
>
>scientology celebrities.
Tom Cruise (and to some extent Revolta despite his latest turkey)
is top selling actor and quite talented at what he does.
Jenna Elfman and the like make material for morons, but there are
plenty of morons around and they are commercially successful.
Chick Corea OTOH is neither talented nor commercially successful.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |<a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"></a>_____________|/_______| L
www.xemu.demon.co.uk 2B0D 5195 337B A3E6 DDAC BD38 7F2F FD8E 7391 F44F
The Skipster
<da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Chick Corea OTOH is neither talented nor commercially successful.
There's no accounting for taste or, in your case, lack of it.
Judith Bandsma
Paul Murray wrote:
> Are there any other anti-scientology movies? I've never heard of "Wild
> Palms".
Wild Palms was actually a tv miniseries. It was more a Twin Peaks meets
Elizabeth Claire Prophet kinda thing. (ECP=female David Koresh...just in
case you don't know who she is) With a whiff of a growing Jesus and lots
and lots of hallucinatory pharmaceuticals.
I think the only way it made sense at all was if you watched it stoned.
Monica Pignotti
> <jim...@aol.com> writes:
> >Tilman: The truth is that Chick Corea is of the the top pianists
and his
> >success and influence reaches beyond the jazz world. It is a shame
that he
> >continues to shill for the scientology cult. I have written
published letters
> >about this to two jazz magazines. I was lured into scientology in
part by
> >Corea. But it is pointless to try and denigrate his musical
artistry.
> >
> >And I doubt very much that Kirstie Alley is a has-been.
> >
> >I believe that there is far too much useless and pointless
disparagement of the
> >scientology celebrities.
>
> Tom Cruise (and to some extent Revolta despite his latest turkey)
> is top selling actor and quite talented at what he does.
>
> Jenna Elfman and the like make material for morons, but there are
> plenty of morons around and they are commercially successful.
>
You might not like his music, but there are many musicians that would
debate you on that one. I, for one, think he is quite good. He has
been well-respected in the jazz field for his talent for years and has
enjoyed quite a bit of commercial success as well.
--
Monica Pignotti
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
MJW
Just some FYI--I have a friend who lives in the Clearwater area
(Dunedin)--he has been into Scientology for the past 5 or 6 years--but not
really heavy duty. On my own I did some reading --a couple of the books by
L R Hubbard. I never pusued it because it was like reading a chapter out of
Alice in Woderland--One minute he seemed to make sense and the next he read
like a madman who didn't get his thorazine on time. To this day I still
don't understand what the Scientology thing is or how it works. I read
"What is Scientology" but I was more confused after I read it than before.
It appears to me that some of you on this board have some experience with
this. Can one of you please e-mail me and straighten me out?
mjw1...@tir.com
Thanks in advance
"The Skipster" <NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:NOSPAMTOskip_press-B...@news.earthlink.net...
> In article <sj5c2om...@corp.supernews.com>, fr...@skeptictank.org
> wrote:
>
> >The Skipster <NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I have no idea what's going on at the sand castle (and don't care) but
> >
> >They're squirreling the tech by making all OT7's perform six-month
> >security checks -- in direct violation of Hubbard's written policies.
> >
> >There's only two motivations for that: The revenue that having to go
> >to Clearwater for these squirrel techs brings in, and the paranoid
> >need to find traitors among their OT7's before they run to the police
> >and rat out everything they know.
> >
> >>I'll tell you this, if Chick Corea moved to Clearwater and now Kirstie
> >>Alley (at least part time), that's a bit of "circling the wagons" to me.
> >>And their careers will greatly suffer because of it. As to the numbers,
> >>they don't come up with many new big celebs very often.
> >
> >There's some indication, I think, that there is consolidation of the
> >Scientology offices around the world. With the closure of offices and
> >the decline in car counts over the past five years, moving their people
> >to Clearwater and to Los Angeles would be the smart thing to do if the
> >bad guys are finding it difficult to pay their bills.
>
> VERY interesting. And all too bad. I knew some fine people (including
> Chick, but he can be clueless about things other than jazz). All this
> stuff about *endless billions* just doesn't jive with *running ahead of
> the avalanche* situations I always saw while involved. Some of the more
> basic scientology processes do some good, and I think a lot of the
> people mean well, they're just deluded due to a goddamned maniac named
> hubbard.
Dave Bird
<pmu...@nospam.bigpond.com> writes:
>"Phil Scott" <phils...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:39320ab9...@news.tdl.com...
>> <NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>> And that would account for the
>> absolutely great anti scn movies we've had, very artfully and very
>> accurately done. Like Wild Palms...
>
>Palms".
Wild Palms was supposed to be moody and supernatural like Twin Peaks
with impressive elemental music; only it was about a cult based on
virtual reality. Unfortunately it flopped because the characters
were crap.
"Bowfinger" is based on Scientology, and the Eddie Murphy character
on Tom Cruise.... well, near enough to be recognised, but not near
enough to be sued. There is also an episode of Millennium in which
the cultists dress up, not in naval but in postal-service uniforms.
Dave Bird
>In article <JGDwUxBb...@xemu.demon.co.uk>, Dave Bird wrote:
>> In article<20000529225758...@ng-fy1.aol.com>, JimDBB:
>> >Tilman: The truth is that Chick Corea is of the the top pianists
>and his
>> >success and influence reaches beyond the jazz world. It is a shame
>that he
>> >continues to shill for the scientology cult. I have written
>published letters
>> >about this to two jazz magazines. I was lured into scientology in
>part by
>> >Corea. But it is pointless to try and denigrate his musical
>artistry.
>> >
>> >And I doubt very much that Kirstie Alley is a has-been.
>> >
>> >I believe that there is far too much useless and pointless
>disparagement of the
>> >scientology celebrities.
>>
>> Tom Cruise (and to some extent Revolta despite his latest turkey)
>> is top selling actor and quite talented at what he does.
>>
>> Jenna Elfman and the like make material for morons, but there are
>> plenty of morons around and they are commercially successful.
>>
>> Chick Corea OTOH is neither talented nor commercially successful.
>
>You might not like his music, but there are many musicians that would
>debate you on that one. I, for one, think he is quite good. He has
>been well-respected in the jazz field for his talent for years and has
>enjoyed quite a bit of commercial success as well.
Tastes differ. Corea is no John Coltrane or Miles Davies; I find
him a bore. Edgar Winter (who AFAIK is also a clam) is quite good
for a rock musician though.
Mike O'Connor
<da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Tastes differ. Corea is no John Coltrane or Miles Davies; I find
> him a bore. Edgar Winter (who AFAIK is also a clam) is quite good
> for a rock musician though.
I saw Edgar Winter on a triple bill at the Fillmore East, with Emerson,
Lake & Palmer, and Curved Air. 1970, I believe. He was fantastic. Really
sensational. Was he into Scientology then?
--
SCIENTOLOGY IS SECRETLY A UFO CULT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Mike O'Connor <mi...@leptonicsystems.com>
<http://www.leptonicsystems.com>
Ian Rennie
> "Phil Scott" <phils...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:39320ab9...@news.tdl.com...
> > On Mon, 29 May 2000 05:48:05 GMT, The Skipster
> > <NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com> wrote:
> >
> > And that would account for the
> > absolutely great anti scn movies we've had, very artfully and very
> > accurately done. Like Wild Palms...
>
> Are there any other anti-scientology movies? I've never heard of "Wild
> Palms".
Oliver Stone TV series. Not bad, but a bit too 'twin peaks' for its own
good.
M. C. DiPietra
til...@berlin.snafu.de escribe en 5/29/00 2:58 PM:
>
> Chick Corea never really was a celebrity. Unless you are one of the 156
> jazz listeners. I never heard of him before his 1993 whining for not
> being able to get paid state monies for a concert. Even people who have
> heard of him say that his "good" music was 20 years ago.
>
now i'm sure you got flamed for this by others, but chick corea, especially
in his 'return to forever' days with stanely clarke, etc., was one of my
favorite jazz artists when I was young. I had several of his earlier albums.
Then he started to get bland, so I stopped buying them. But he really
was/could be a great keyboardist.
--
--- http://maggiecouncil.iuma.com
M.C.DiPietra <mdip...@earthlink.net>, SP4
"Hell, if you understood everything I say,
you'd be me!" -Miles Davis
David Gerard
:in article fgd5jskdesc6fbht2...@4ax.com, Tilman Hausherr at
:til...@berlin.snafu.de escribe en 5/29/00 2:58 PM:
:> Chick Corea never really was a celebrity. Unless you are one of the 156
:> jazz listeners. I never heard of him before his 1993 whining for not
:> being able to get paid state monies for a concert. Even people who have
:> heard of him say that his "good" music was 20 years ago.
:now i'm sure you got flamed for this by others, but chick corea, especially
:in his 'return to forever' days with stanely clarke, etc., was one of my
:favorite jazz artists when I was young. I had several of his earlier albums.
:Then he started to get bland, so I stopped buying them. But he really
:was/could be a great keyboardist.
A great keyboardist in someone else's band, maybe. Most musicians who (like
Corea) came to fame as Miles Davis' sidemen have proceeded to bore me
shitless. Most sidemen need to be kept *firmly* under the control of
someone with more musical clue, or they start turning out music only
suitable for other musicians, high in technical skill and low in anything
else.
When sidemen start making their own records, it's too often the equivalent
of movie stars making their pet project.
--
http://xenu.netizen.com.au/ http://www.caube.org.au/
"You haven't lived 'til you've performed emergency vibrator repair that
required a welding torch." (Ron Parker)
Monica Pignotti
"M. C. DiPietra" <mdip...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> in article fgd5jskdesc6fbht2...@4ax.com, Tilman
Hausherr at
> til...@berlin.snafu.de escribe en 5/29/00 2:58 PM:
>
> >
>>Chick Corea never really was a celebrity. Unless you are one of the
>>156 jazz listeners. I never heard of him before his 1993 whining for
>>not being able to get paid state monies for a concert. Even people
>>who have heard of him say that his "good" music was 20 years ago.
> >
>
>now i'm sure you got flamed for this by others, but chick corea,
>especially in his 'return to forever' days with stanely clarke, etc.,
>was one of my favorite jazz artists when I was young. I had several of
>his earlier albums.
>Then he started to get bland, so I stopped buying them. But he really
>was/could be a great keyboardist.
In case people don't know, he was in Scientology in his early days as
well. I know he's been involved for at least 30 years, if not more as
he was around when I was. Stanley Clarke was also a Scientologist at
one time but I've heard that he left.
Ernestmac13
Paul Murray wrote:
>
> "Phil Scott" <phils...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:39320ab9...@news.tdl.com...
> > On Mon, 29 May 2000 05:48:05 GMT, The Skipster
> > <NOSPAMTOs...@excite.com> wrote:
> >
> > And that would account for the
> > absolutely great anti scn movies we've had, very artfully and very
> > accurately done. Like Wild Palms...
>
> Are there any other anti-scientology movies? I've never heard of "Wild
> Palms".
>