Does Scn really provide a solution to depression?
friendship
emotional distress?
Let's say you were a Scientologist or non-Scientolgist who was
suffering from a fairly severe emotional problem. Serious depression,
post-partem psychosis, suicidal thoughts and urges, etc.
Here's what would probably happen if you tried to get Scientology
counselling to relieve the situation.
First of all, you would not be accepted for counselling at most
Missions or Churches of Scn unless you paid for what would be
considered enough counselling to actually resolve your complaints.
Because your distress is serious, this would be quite a bit of money.
Probably in the tens of thousands of dollars.
Next, you would probably not be able to receive Scientology services if
you are or have ever taken any medication considered to be psychiatric
-- anti-depressants, for example. I'm not sure if the C of S is still
enforcing this as strenuously as it was a few years ago. But if they
are, then if a person has ever taken 'psych drugs' (anti-depressants,
for example) they are considered 'illegal pcs' and, therefore, not
eligible for Scientology counselling.
Next, if you have ever been institutionalized or been under the care of
a psychiatrist for any length of time you would be ineligible for
Scientology counselling.
I'm not 100% sure about this but I believe that you can't even go to
Flag for any type of service (training or auditing) if you ever
threatened suicide or seriously considered suicide or attempted
suicide. I believe that that is a policy peculiar to Flag. Can
someone verify this?
Now, if you have gotten past all these hurdles and you were accepted
for auditing you would still have to be 'sessionable'.
As many, if not most, people with severe emotional difficulties have
serious sleep problems, the likelihood of them actually getting
counselling is slim and they would have to do a lot of waiting around
and non-drug sleep remedies.
In my experience, Scientology staff members have a strong aversion to
anyone in actual distress. They put up barriers that discourage the
desparate. They don't like people sitting in their reception areas who
are not cheerful and good PR for Scn. People who are sad or glum might
make people think that Scn doesn't work.
All this belies the hype that Flag is 'the friendliest place on earth'.
The legal department of the Office of Special Affairs tries to avoid
major 'flaps' by screening people who want to receive counselling to
weed out anyone who might cause trouble.
Forget about mental or emotional problems. Long-standing
Scientologists who have run of the mill physical conditions are often
barred from Scientology help when they need it the most. Wayne Pullen
was taken off OT 7 because he had a blood clot in his leg a few years
ago. Recently, Rene Duke was not allowed to continue on Solo NOTS
because she has a heart condition. The same with David Howson. At
least this is what I've heard from people in the know.
So, even a loyal Scientologist who thinks that Scientology may,
theoretically, have solutions for many of the problems people have,
would have to admit that though they believe in a Scientology solution
in theory, in reality it is very hard to get actual help if you're in
real trouble.
Cerridwen
>Does Scn really provide a solution to depression? Or other severe
>emotional distress?
Funny you asked this question because I was just thinking of this
myself. :)
>
>Let's say you were a Scientologist or non-Scientolgist who was
>suffering from a fairly severe emotional problem. Serious depression,
>post-partem psychosis, suicidal thoughts and urges, etc.
Way back in the days when Scn was more of a group of old hippies getting
high on Scientology, rather than a whacko totalitarian cult, I saw a woman
who was severely depressed get tremedous relief doing the TR's course,
and seemed to be leading a happy life as a Scio. Of course, I lost track of
her so I can't tell you if this lasted very long but I know she was still doing
well after 20 years in Scn. But generally, I don't think it's a "workable solution"
for severe cases.
<snip the part I'm not replying to>
>
>I'm not 100% sure about this but I believe that you can't even go to
>Flag for any type of service (training or auditing) if you ever
>threatened suicide or seriously considered suicide or attempted
>suicide. I believe that that is a policy peculiar to Flag. Can
>someone verify this?
That is my understanding as well. Flag has all kinds of restrictions including
attempted suicide or suicidal thoughts and any instances of going PTS Type 3
or completely bonkers (nervous breakdowns).
<more snipping>
>
>In my experience, Scientology staff members have a strong aversion to
>anyone in actual distress. They put up barriers that discourage the
>desparate. They don't like people sitting in their reception areas who
>are not cheerful and good PR for Scn. People who are sad or glum might
>make people think that Scn doesn't work.
This is true.
<snip, snip, snip>
>
>So, even a loyal Scientologist who thinks that Scientology may,
>theoretically, have solutions for many of the problems people have,
>would have to admit that though they believe in a Scientology solution
>in theory, in reality it is very hard to get actual help if you're in
>real trouble.
If you're in real trouble stay the hell away from the C of S. Go see a doctor
and get medically handled. If you want to get some auditing afterwards, then
go for it, but see a doctor first and not one that passes out vitamins for all
problems.
Cerridwen
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/
"Informing people doesn't involve trying to silence those who disagree with you." --Prignillius
friendship
Dear Cerri,
Thanks for your response. As far as getting help when you really need
it, I recall a few people who relied on Scn type solutions who are now
dead because they didn't seek normal medical help. One of these was
Ellen Giffin. She had treatable breast cancer but she chose the
alternative treastment route and died. She was a Class 6 field auditor
and should have done better research. Another was Don Freedman, a
Class 8, who had lymphoma. He was told by doctors at USC medical
center that there was a mild form of chemotherapy that would help him
greatly but he said no. He died. Another was Wes Becher. He was
diabetic. For some reason didn't change his behavior, didn't handle
the diabetes. He had a severe backache, I heard, for a few days. His
family kept giving him back rubs and assists. Turns out it was a heart
attack. He was only 50. He could have lived to 90 with proper care.
Wes was dearly loved. It was such a waste.
Another was Randy Parsons. He kept having flu symptoms and kept
getting prescriptions for anti-biotics from Shaw Health Center. They
finally sent him to a public hospital for more tests. They finally
diagnosed him as having lukemia. Possibly if he had had better medical
care he might have lived much longer. And he left a wife and 4
children -- with no money whatsoever. Because he, along with many
Scns, didn't believe in either health or life insurance.
All of this cannot be blamed completely on Scn and Hubbard. There is a
culture of Scns that has a life of its own that is distrustful of much
of society. Some of that is chiropractic influence and prejudice about
traditional medicine. But if you have cancer a chiropractor won't help
you. The same with having a heart attack. It's simple -- get medical
help right away!!
So, I agree with you Cerri. First aid is first -- auditing later, if
that's your inclination.
Larry T.
I am going to correct all of your asses.
Scientology LEADS to depression.
--
http://mysite.verizon.net/respu7h5/
© 2005 Lawrence Toomajan
+++++++++++++++
"friendship" <frien...@ureach.com> wrote in message
news:1117230455....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
great...@peoplepc.com
friendship
Very clever, Larry! I like what you've been posting lately.
> >
Mike Gormez
in <1117219338....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
>Does Scn really provide a solution to depression? Or other severe
>emotional distress?
The official answher is that scientology is 'makig the able more able'.
The non-able ones are apparently parasites.
--
Mike Gormez
- World Institute of Scientology Enterprises (WISE) - www.stop-wise.biz
- www.whyaretheydead.net - Why Are They Dead, Scientology?
- Child abuse and neglect by scientologists www.taxexemptchildabuse.net
- www.psychassualt.org - Scientology hatred of mental health (CCHR)
friendship
The concept that the able never have trouble, never have hard times,
never get sick, never collapse emotionally is, of course, a myth.
The concept of making the able more able could be called, also, the
concept of being a fair weather friend.
roger gonnet
"friendship" <frien...@ureach.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1117219338....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Does Scn really provide a solution to depression? Or other severe
> emotional distress?
yes: it's a solution to *become* depressed: 54 % of those leaving the cult are
depressed, and suicidal.
r
Mike Gormez
in <1117264360.4...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
>> >Does Scn really provide a solution to depression? Or other severe
>> >emotional distress?
>>
>> The official answher is that scientology is 'makig the able more able'.
>>
>> The non-able ones are apparently parasites.
>The concept that the able never have trouble, never have hard times,
>never get sick, never collapse emotionally is, of course, a myth.
Of course, but not in scientology. In scientology is fe. sickness
connected to to a PTS situation. There's a reason why scientology implies
scientologists are healthier.
>The concept of making the able more able could be called, also, the
>concept of being a fair weather friend.
It could be but I consider it no friend at all when a price tag is
attached on its friendship.
Keith Henson
(Cerridwen) wrote:
>On 27 May 2005, "friendship" <frien...@ureach.com> wrote:
>
>>Does Scn really provide a solution to depression? Or other severe
>>emotional distress?
>
>Funny you asked this question because I was just thinking of this
>myself. :)
>>
>>Let's say you were a Scientologist or non-Scientolgist who was
>>suffering from a fairly severe emotional problem. Serious depression,
>>post-partem psychosis, suicidal thoughts and urges, etc.
>
>Way back in the days when Scn was more of a group of old hippies getting
>high on Scientology, rather than a whacko totalitarian cult, I saw a woman
>who was severely depressed get tremedous relief doing the TR's course,
>and seemed to be leading a happy life as a Scio.
This is in line with what you would expect taking an evolutionary
psychology view.
Humans evolved as intensely social hunter-gatherers. On an individual
basis we are not very dangerous to large predators, but as well
coordinated groups armed with sharp rocks there is nothing that can
touch us. Because of our highly social nature we became the top
predator on the planet.
You can see the reward effect of intense social interactions in other
social predators such as wolves--which is why they were the first
domesticated animal.
Post hunter gatherer life lacks the level of social interactions that
went on all the time in tribes. Modern life can have a lot less
social interaction than a village.
Social interaction, especially attention, causes the brain to release
reward chemicals. These chemicals tell us that we are doing the right
things; without them we *should be* unhappy. This had the effect in
the remote past to get our ancestors out looking for mates or food or
doing something that would improve their situation.
Most people do ok on the social interaction they get in modern life,
with family, at jobs, parties, talking to people in bars and the like.
But people vary in how much they need as well as how much they get.
People who are getting less social interaction/brain reward chemicals
than they need should experience "tremendous relief doing the TR's
course" which is, of course, a dose of concentrated attention.
The need for attention is what drove psychoanalysis, though neither
the doctors nor the patients understood why patients were willing to
fork out money on a par with scientology courses or a serious drug
habit.
(The need for brain reward chemicals is also the basis for people
using addicting drugs.)
The point to this rant is that cults in general and scientology in
particular take advantage of the evolved human need for social
interaction.
It isn's a mystery folks.
Keith Henson
Phil Scott
site said that its been shown in many cases that counselling
works as well as drugs.. Im sure better in many cases since
counseling would handle the persons behavior or loopy
considerations that is making them a victim or justifying
their upset at the inevitable rubs and irritations of life.
Drugs would be required in other cases where the persons
neuro-transmitters and receptors etc are not working
properly..and this has been shown to be hereditary as with
many things such as beady eyes or whatever.
Phil Scott
"friendship" <frien...@ureach.com> wrote in message
news:1117219338....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
friendship
Phil Scott wrote:
> a recent study reported widely and appearing on googles news
> site said that its been shown in many cases that counselling
> works as well as drugs.. Im sure better in many cases since
> counseling would handle the persons behavior or loopy
> considerations that is making them a victim or justifying
> their upset at the inevitable rubs and irritations of life.
>
> Drugs would be required in other cases where the persons
> neuro-transmitters and receptors etc are not working
> properly..and this has been shown to be hereditary as with
> many things such as beady eyes or whatever.
>
>
> Phil Scott
You're right, Phil. You know I came across an article somewhere. It
was a study done that showed that talk therapy, no matter who the
therapist was, whether trained or untrained, has a pretty good rate of
success. In fact, the rate of success was equal no matter what the
qualifications or lack thereof were. So talk therapy often works.
Yes, of course, in severe cases it may not do any good.
friendship
As another side to this, the Scn who may be going through some fairly
severe mental anguish has the added stress and burden of knowing that
if s/he reveals it to a staff member in an Org or Mission s/he may be
barred from ever again getting Scn auditing. Scns tend to have a
rather low confront on mentally and/or physically ill people.
Ball of Fluff
I think it can help in some cases. But I don't think it's the cureall that
it is touted to be. No way.
C
friendship
Ball of Fluff wrote:
> I think it can help in some cases. But I don't think it's the cureall that
> it is touted to be. No way.
>
> C
Dear C,
What were you referring to here? Three things were being spoken of:
talk therapy, drugs and Scn counselling. Which one isn't the cureall?
Ball of Fluff
Auditing. Re the title of the post.
C
friendship
I agree. Especially if the person is very, very upset.