I'm going to jail and got fired from my job
Fred Durks
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=15069 because I'm looking at
Jailtime, fines, plus I already lost my job. I just thought maybe some
ARS posters could offer some help.
Please email me at fr...@stopscientology.com if you can help in anyway-
What religion would do this to a critic? Anyway- I have till NOV 28th
to prove my case. Any help would be appreciated.
-------------------------------------------------------
The story I'm about to tell is %100 true, I swear to god. I'm posting
it because I need help and I don't want to go to jail.
Early Thursday morning, 10/28/05 my friend was dropping me off at my
apartment. It was around 2 AM. We had just come from the Casino playing
$20 on Black Jack. We had each drank about 2-3 Coronas (12 oz beers).
We parted ways and I began to walk up to my apartment. Halfway there,
something happened. I can't describe what, but something came around me
or......Everything became cloudy and then, I blacked out %100.
The next thing I know it's around 10:45 AM (10/28/05) and my brain
turns on again. I'm in the back seat of my car. I open my door and I
see that my car had hit a curb directly in front of my office building
where I work. My mind state was like a dream, I could barely walk and
couldn't think straight. I opened my driver door and tried backing up
but my car was stuck. In a foggy like dream state, I went up to the
parking attendant and asked if he could help me. I could hear myself
slurring but didn't understand why.
Then when I go back to my car, out of no where, like 12 cops show up.
They asked me what happened and I told them that I didn't know. I told
them I had no clue how I got there. Still, the words coming out of my
mouth were very hard to speak and it was still like I was in some kind
of drug induced hallucination.
They gave me a breathalyzer test. I blew a .19 at 10:45 AM.
For those that don't know what a .19 is - basically you would need to
drink a fifth of 80 percent liquor to achieve those kinds of numbers.
I was handcuffed and arrested. I blacked out again.
I remember being in a holding cell. I remember them drawing blood from
me, which I will have access to in a few days to see what was in my
system.
I was in jail for over 11 hours until I could get bonded out.
When I finally got home, my apartment was a wreck. Papers gone through,
boxes knocked over. I was going to call the cops but I was scared
because the previous 11 hours of cops was enough for me.
Then I logically tried to figure out how this could have happened.
I have had a half bottle of Tequila in my freezer for the last few
weeks. I opened my freezer and there was still a half bottle of
Tequila.
Then I remembered that I had about 10 xanax that I keep on hand because
sometimes I get real bad anxiety attacks. I only use them in
emergencies when the pain from anxiety gets too bad. I still had the
same 10 xanax that I had before this incident.
NOTHING ELSE IN MY HOUSE COULD HAVE DONE THIS TO ME. IN ARIZONA THEY DO
NOT SERVE ALCOHOL AFTER 2 AM.
I DO NOT REMEMBER ANYTHING FROM WHEN I WAS WALKING UP TO MY APARTMENT
AND THE COPS SHOWING UP.
This morning, 10/28/05, I had my first court appearance where I pleaded
not guilty. I showed up to work after the court appearance and they
said they had to let me go because of the scene I made in front of
their offices that looked like an episode of COPS.
I said that was fine. I make plenty of money to support my self with my
other web site stuff, and will actually make more since I can devote
all my time to it now.
According to Arizona law, because of the .19 that I blew, I have to
serve 30 days in jail.
The court case to show evidence or prove my case is NOV 28th 2005.
Congrats to you scientologist pieces of shit on this temporary victory.
You got my car impounded, got me fired from my job, and I'm now facing
possible jail time.
I don't have a lawyer anymore because that was through my work.
Any ideas, suggestions, or help would be much appreciated-
Paul Horner
AKA FRED DURKS
PM me - respond to the thread - or email me at pa...@netskrill.com
SCIENTOLOGIST- I WILL NOT STOP EXPOSING YOUR CON- DRUG ME, KICK THE
SHIT OUT OF ME, WHATEVER. THIS ONLY MAKES ME MORE PISSED TO PUT AN END
TO YOUR SCAM. YOU MIGHT HAVE LIMITED MY RESOURCES A LITTLE TEMPORARILY,
BUT I HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY COMING IN FROM LEGITIMATE BUSINESSES I OWN.
YOU WILL BE EXPOSED, YOU CAN GUARANTEE THAT.
STOP SCIENTOLOGY!
http://www.stopscientology.com
http://www.scientomogy.com
http://www.boycottscientology.com
http://www.whatisscientology.net
--------------------------------------------------
This thread is at.....
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=15069
roger gonnet
legal papers or such (even blackening your name and adress) would be fine.
Your story looks quite possible - clams ahve done lots of crimes in the past and
we have some few reasons to believe now that the upper clam is now as crazy or
crazier than was his guru founder. But this is only an opinion based of second
hand witnessings.
Thanks,
roger
"Fred Durks" <fred...@stopscientology.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1130584891....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Howard
Dear Fred
Ouch!!
Get a full medical physical examination, paying particular attention
to any fresh bodily injuries or marks. Have a blood sample taken and
analysed - ditto urine, although it maybe a bit late now.
Find yourself a lawyer and consider using a pi to ride herd for you
- it's possible that the local police may view this as a routine DUI
case and not allocate much in the way of investigative resources.
Identify any surveillance cameras that may cover the areas in
question. Check local crime records/newspapers to see whether there
have been any other similar occurences.
Might an insomniac neighbour have heard somethimg around the time
you think this happened?
Give some thought to the possibility that you have severely pissed
someone *else* off, closer to home, other than CoS.
regards
Howard
--
hedmundoatmacmaildotcom
David Cary Hart
> I don't usually post here, so I'm going to stay on this thread at
> http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=15069 because I'm looking at
> Jailtime, fines, plus I already lost my job. I just thought maybe
> some ARS posters could offer some help.
>
Taking this at face value notwithstanding some inconsistencies, *get
yourself a competent criminal attorney* this minute!
No offense, but discussing the matter in this forum is profoundly
stupid. For that matter, you should not be discussing this with anyone
other than your lawyer.
Stop playing CSI. Your attorney may advise you to retain an
investigator. Anything you do will most probably make a bigger mess of
things.
You may very well have an improper termination suit against your former
employer - although you have already gone out of your way to dilute it
by not knowing when to shut up. Do *not* discuss any of this with
former co-workers. Consult with a lawyer specializing in these matters
now with any eye to pursuing the issue once you dispose of the criminal
matter.
--
Displayed Email Address is a SPAM TRAP
Our DNSRBL - Eliminate Spam: http://www.TQMcube.com/spam_trap.htm
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Tired of spam? Do YOUR part: http://www.BoulderPledge.org
a...@123.net
You make your money selling drinking trinkets....
You list your hobbies as drinking....
You get arrested for DRINKING!
And suddenly it scientology after you?
http://www.blogger.com/profile/6547260 (your profile)
There is a little credibility gap here.....amusing though
I'll say get a good lawyer also...
In article <1130584891....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Zinj
says...
<snip>
> Taking this at face value notwithstanding some inconsistencies, *get
> yourself a competent criminal attorney* this minute!
>
> No offense, but discussing the matter in this forum is profoundly
> stupid. For that matter, you should not be discussing this with anyone
> other than your lawyer.
Agreed. Nobody *wants* a lawyer, until they need one, and even if it
means going into debt a bit, good lawyers don't start getting expensive
till they're supposed to *do* something.
A thousand bucks worth of good advice is worth it.
Zinj
--
Villains! I say to you now! Knock off all that Evil!
- The Tick
Mirele
story's nothing more than a stinking, steaming pile. And the actions of
drunk drivers have real-world consequences. A very good friend of mine
nearly died because of the actions of a rush hour drunk some years
back.
Since I live and drive in Mesa, AZ, I'd like to thank the Mesa Police
Department for getting a .19 BAC off the streets of my city.
Paul Horner may be a so-called "critic", but that doesn't mean he's
exempt from the law.
Deana Holmes
mir...@sonic.net
Ball of Fluff
<a...@123.net> wrote in message
news:abc-CED526.0...@nntp.charter.net...
> So to recap:
>
> You make your money selling drinking trinkets....
>
> You list your hobbies as drinking....
>
> You get arrested for DRINKING!
>
> And suddenly it scientology after you?
Well, I have the occasional margarita every other month or so and it doesn't
mean I drive drunk. I don't.
His apartment was gone through and he has already described a pattern of
harassment from CofS - PREVIOUSLY- over this Scientomogy website.
>
> http://www.soberhookup.com
>
> http://www.blogger.com/profile/6547260 (your profile)
>
> There is a little credibility gap here.....amusing though
>
> I'll say get a good lawyer also...
He needs to alert the media, too.
C
Ball of Fluff
"Mirele" <mir...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130601132....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'd like to be sympathetic to this, really I would. But I can't. The
> story's nothing more than a stinking, steaming pile. And the actions of
> drunk drivers have real-world consequences. A very good friend of mine
> nearly died because of the actions of a rush hour drunk some years
> back.
But, Mirele, he's saying he only had a couple drinks. Not a fifth of liquor.
We know he's been harassed over his 'site for a while, by CofS. And now his
apartment was gone through and tossed.
It sounds to me like he was slipped some roofies than some booze poured down
his throat.
And it sounds like it could be CofS.
>
> Since I live and drive in Mesa, AZ, I'd like to thank the Mesa Police
> Department for getting a .19 BAC off the streets of my city.
>
> Paul Horner may be a so-called "critic", but that doesn't mean he's
> exempt from the law.
>
But he's saying he didn't have a fifth of liquor, which is what it would
have taken- that or an equivalent- to make his alcohol level rise to that
level.
Don't you want to exclude set ups in your thesis? I do.
C
David Cary Hart
> His apartment was gone through and he has already described a pattern
> of harassment from CofS - PREVIOUSLY- over this Scientomogy website.
>
>
>
to do nothing until he consults with a reputable criminal attorney! He
never should have posted here in the first place.
Ball of Fluff
"Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote in message
news:43639ed4$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
>
> <a...@123.net> wrote in message
> news:abc-CED526.0...@nntp.charter.net...
>> So to recap:
>>
>> You make your money selling drinking trinkets....
>>
>> You list your hobbies as drinking....
>>
>> You get arrested for DRINKING!
>>
>> And suddenly it scientology after you?
>
> Well, I have the occasional margarita every other month or so and it
> doesn't mean I drive drunk. I don't.
>
> His apartment was gone through and he has already described a pattern of
> harassment from CofS - PREVIOUSLY- over this Scientomogy website.
Oops, I meant stopscientology.com
C
SirLagsALot
"Fred Durks" <fred...@stopscientology.com> wrote in message
news:1130584891....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I don't usually post here, so I'm going to stay on this thread at
> http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=15069 because I'm looking at
> Jailtime, fines, plus I already lost my job. I just thought maybe some
> ARS posters could offer some help.
>
> Please email me at fr...@stopscientology.com if you can help in anyway-
>
> What religion would do this to a critic? Anyway- I have till NOV 28th
> to prove my case. Any help would be appreciated.
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> The story I'm about to tell is %100 true, I swear to god. I'm posting
> it because I need help and I don't want to go to jail.
>
> Early Thursday morning, 10/28/05 my friend was dropping me off at my
> apartment. It was around 2 AM. We had just come from the Casino playing
> $20 on Black Jack. We had each drank about 2-3 Coronas (12 oz beers).
>
> We parted ways and I began to walk up to my apartment. Halfway there,
> something happened. I can't describe what, but something came around me
> or......Everything became cloudy and then, I blacked out %100.
>
> The next thing I know it's around 10:45 AM (10/28/05) and my brain
> turns on again. I'm in the back seat of my car. I open my door and I
> see that my car had hit a curb directly in front of my office building
find that parking attendant, get a statement from him/her as to how the
vehicle came to be on that curb.
if it turns out someone else drove the vehicle to that spot with you in the
back seat, got out of the vehicle and into another vehicle and left the
scene...SOMEONE had to have seen it happen.
you also made a HUGE mistake not calling the police about the burglary at
your apartment
and when it comes to the breathalyzer...you should have demanded a blood
test instead
this would have shown any "other" substances that may have been in your
system
at this point you may be left with few options other than a "no contest"
plea
but make an effort to find someone, anyone, who may have witnessed events at
the apartment or the work building.
Tilman Hausherr
<fred...@stopscientology.com> wrote:
>Paul Horner
>AKA FRED DURKS
Who are you? Your name does not sound familiar.
SirLagsALot
to assume it was DUI/DWI.
If you were in the back seat when you awoke, and not operating the vehicle
when police arrived, and nobody witnessed you operating the vehicle....
Then an argument can be made that you were not driving under the influence,
not that this argument will be successful.
Throwing up conspiracy theories without any supporting evidence isnt going
to get anywhere either.
You need a witness....start knocking on doors and making phone calls...find
that witness.
"SirLagsALot" <texass...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:%lO8f.4701$D13....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Ball of Fluff
> You dont say in your post what it is you are being charged with, I am
> going
> to assume it was DUI/DWI.
> If you were in the back seat when you awoke, and not operating the vehicle
> when police arrived, and nobody witnessed you operating the vehicle....
> Then an argument can be made that you were not driving under the
> influence,
> not that this argument will be successful.
> Throwing up conspiracy theories without any supporting evidence isnt going
> to get anywhere either.
> You need a witness....start knocking on doors and making phone
> calls...find
> that witness.
>
I think so, too. One thing, though, I have seen in my state, (WA, not AZ) is
I know of two people who were arrested for drunk driving when they weren't
driving. They were in their cars. The cars weren't running. The key was in
the ignition. They were drunk.
One of them got this thrown out, however.
C
a...@123.net
Yea alert the media, and make himself look the fool!
Look at his website! selling cell phone flasks to hide booze and other
such stuff.
The "media" will have a real hoot with this guy!
arrested for drunk driving!
fluff look at the soberhookup.com site
If hes been set up, it sure was done well!
a...@123.net
David Cary Hart <Traif-...@TQMcube.com> wrote:
> On Saturday 29 October 2005 12:09, Ball of Fluff opined:
>
> > His apartment was gone through and he has already described a pattern
> > of harassment from CofS - PREVIOUSLY- over this Scientomogy website.
> >
> >
> > He needs to alert the media, too.
> >
> Taking it at face value (disregarding some inconsistencies); He *needs*
> to do nothing until he consults with a reputable criminal attorney! He
> never should have posted here in the first place.
Yep
and his first order of business should be to save his sorry ass, not
fight cos.
but then.....horses water....do the math
a...@123.net
"Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote:
rule of thumb for alcohol intake..... .05 rise per drink per hour for
150 lb person. so .19 is four beers in an hour not a fifth
a guy drinking four beers in an hour is not a feat of ledergemain
he said he had two....
but look at his site soberhookup.com and make your own judgement about
his involvement with alcohol....
Magoo
"Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote in message
news:4363b440$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
As I told you last night: Get an attorey right away.
This is legal, as you know, and you need someone to help you.
I told you where.
Also, get as much proof as you can, and if someone here didn't mention it:
Bring a camera with you, and take photos of ANY and ALL weird/odd cars that
seem to be following you. Get a photo of the license plate.
Proof talks, stories do not.
My best,
Tory/Magoo~~
>
>
Ball of Fluff
Magoo
"Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote in message
news:43639fb1$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
Exactly. Mirele................I doubt most of us here are supportive of
drunk driving, in fact, I know I have just as much passion against it as you
do, and I'm sure most here do, too.
However, many of us have been Fair Gamed, set up, and screwed by the
organiztion hiding behind the curtain of religion:
The "church" <gack for them!> of Scientology. If you read what Paul wrote,
he wasn't driving drunk. Our guess, over on Operation Clambake, is that he
was Tazar'd..............or hit with a needle filled with something that
knocked him out. Tazar's do long enough to drive someone for 20 min's the
cops told me.
Was it that? His blood test shall tell what's up for real. They won't tell
re the Tazar, but if he was hurt, which it sounds like in the back, that
Dr's can see and note.
Proof is of the essence here. Get as much as you can.
Tory/Magoo~~
>
>
clk...@gmail.com
You know, standards of logic and proof don't, or shouldn't, get thrown
out the window when the accusation being made is against Scientologists
or the Church of Scientology.
Just a question - why exactly should anyone believe that any
Scientologist committed blatantly illegal, criminal behavior (drugging,
kidnapping, with that BAC attempted murder, breaking and entering)
against some guy with whom they have a pretty dull domain name dispute?
What proof? What pattern of behavior does this fit?
If the answer is "none," then one might consider that there are pretty
clear scenarios that fit what's described here, but I won't get into
that except to say that Scientologists have nothing to do with that.
In the meantime, seriously, get a lawyer. And Scientology is not a
catchall target for anything someone does not want to take
responsibility for.
Charlotte
barb
> On Saturday 29 October 2005 12:09, Ball of Fluff opined:
>
>
>>His apartment was gone through and he has already described a pattern
>>of harassment from CofS - PREVIOUSLY- over this Scientomogy website.
>>
>>
>>He needs to alert the media, too.
>>
>
> Taking it at face value (disregarding some inconsistencies); He *needs*
> to do nothing until he consults with a reputable criminal attorney! He
> never should have posted here in the first place.
>
And we need to do nothing until the blood tests and interviews are
completed.
--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net
"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander
barb
> You dont say in your post what it is you are being charged with, I am going
> to assume it was DUI/DWI.
> If you were in the back seat when you awoke, and not operating the vehicle
> when police arrived, and nobody witnessed you operating the vehicle....
> Then an argument can be made that you were not driving under the influence,
> not that this argument will be successful.
> Throwing up conspiracy theories without any supporting evidence isnt going
> to get anywhere either.
> You need a witness....start knocking on doors and making phone calls...find
> that witness.
>
>
<snip>
In california that only works if you don't have the car keys in your
possession...and sometimes, not even then.
Tom Klemesrud
> So to recap:
>
> You make your money selling drinking trinkets....
>
> You list your hobbies as drinking....
>
> You get arrested for DRINKING!
>
> And suddenly it scientology after you?
>
> http://www.soberhookup.com
>
This is just the angle or "button" the cult would use in framing this
particular individual. The cult probably did the same research as you
just did--or you shared your research.
>
> There is a little credibility gap here.....amusing though
> I'll say get a good lawyer also...
Of course if scientology shows up at the prosecution table--as they did
in the Keith Henson trial--then you know they are behind it.
If "research from the internet on you shows up at the prosecution table,
get testimony on how the prosecutor got this information.
mail.com
<fred...@stopscientology.com> wrote:
Fred---- please rush to a drug testing lab ASAP and get a full
work-up: blood, urine, etc. It is probably too late, but trace
amounts of drugs ought to be in your system for around 48 hours
and whatever the crime syndicate put in your drink ought to show
up that long.
---
http://lastliberal.org / I support privatization of religion.
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Waiter, can you help? This man has a soup in his fly." -- Mike Hammer
Desertphile
Did you talk to any women while you were in the Casino?
Please consider contacting the casico as soon as possible and tell them
you plan on getting a subpoena on their video security tapes. Perhaps
whoever put a drug in your beer was caught on video tape by the casino.
Desertphile
Subject: Recap of the story of Miss Bloodybutt - for Tom Klemesrud
Organization: International Association of Afghanistani Party Dance
Instructors
Message-ID: <363ebt4gkoto46ej3...@4ax.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:42:59 GMT
> Tom Klemesrud <tom...@WCTAtel.net> wrote:
>
> I hate thinking back on this; and worse, I hate knowing that many people
> I respect here still don't believe what I said about this.
Tom, I was inclined to believe your story based on your direct account
of the events. After all, the cult was out to squelch both you and
Dennis, and they made no secret about that. They were quite fanatical
and unequivocal.
The methods used against Tom, however bizarre and strange, would fit in
perfectly with the manipulative types of Scientology Black Ops
described by Mike McCloughry in his XenuTV interview video, (which can
be viewed at http://www.xenutv.com/trust/mike.htm ) For those who
weren't aware of the story, Tom Klemesrud's BBS was the upstream
provider of Dennis Erlich's a.r.s internet feed back in 1994-95. If you
aren't aware of who Dennis Erlich is, then just realize that back in
1995, he was the cult's enemy #1, just as Bob Minton is today.
One day, early in 95, Erlich had replied via the BBS feed, to an
anonymously posted a.r.s message containing copyrighted OT materials.
Erlich quoted the message and said simply, "it looks like the actual OT
material to me" (may not be the exact quote, it something very akin to
that). For this awful and terrible and criminal breach (that's a joke),
the RTC actually raided and sued Dennis, while at the same time, they
tried to pressure Tom Klemesrud to cut off Dennis' internet access. Tom
refused, and said that he'd need the RTC to show him proof of copyright
ownership before he would do that. They refused to show him proof, and
instead sued Tom for "contributory infringement."
Sometime later, Tom's liability insurance carrier force Tom to settle
with the cult.
But some time after this all began, Tom got a bit drunk at a bar with a
woman who claimed to be an FBI agent. From Tom's account, it appeared
that she chatting him up and flirting with him. She claimed to want to
see Tom's computer setup. Tom agreed, probably thinking he might be
getting lucky.
So they both went to Tom's apartment (taking a cab, which I found very
commendable, as both were somewhat inebriated). Up to this point, there
doesn't appear to be any disagreement. But from here on out, there are
two, wildly different accounts of what happened. According to Tom, once
in his apartment, things turned ugly. The woman went into his bathroom,
removed her jeans, and he says she took a plastic tube containing some
blood-red goo from between her legs, and began flinging it around,
splashing it on the walls of his apartment.
According to Tom, she told him that she represented Scientology and if
he knew what was good for him, he'd better start doing what Scientology
demanded.
Tom then claimed that he dialed 911 and took a shotgun out of his
closet to protect himself, in case the woman attempted to do anything
even crazier. The cops came. Tom told his version of the story, which
sounds pretty unbelievable. She told the cops her hemorrhoids had been
bleeding and that he had threatened her with the gun. If I recall
correctly, the cops then arrested Tom.
On a.r.s, the Scientology sock puppets sprang into action, bringing all
sorts of DA materials out about Tom and alternative theories about what
happened. They accused him of being not credible, of being violent,
unstable, a drunk, etc. All in all, not unlike the stupid lies they
were recently saying about Mark Bunker following his bogus arrest in
Chicago.
The clambot party line was that the woman in Tom's apartment, whoever
she might be, had nothing whatsoever to do with Scientology, and that
Tom was either hallucinating or simply making up his story about her
claiming to intimidate him in the name of Scientology. They claimed
that he was in a cynical and malicious way, trying to unfairly malign
Scientology for something that involved just him and some drunk "lady."
By virtue of the sock puppets intense sneering and smearing of both Tom
and Dennis, I was somewhat convinced that Tom's story was probably the
truth.
Tom later posted a transcript of a part of the 911 tape (it was only a
partial, because the LAPD couldn't find the remaining portions of the
recording). The part that was transcribed fit almost exactly with Tom's
earlier recollection of the 911 call, and verified at least that part
of his account. It also made it pretty clear that the name Scientology
had been used in his apartment by his "guest." From the tape, it was
clear that as the blood smearing was happening, Tom honestly believed
an OSA agent was threatening him. He was clearly not making up a story
in a calculated, devious, intentional way. His somewhat inebriated
state also ruled out every possibility except three. Either he was
telling the truth, or else he was an accomplished actor with a
completely devious mind, or he was capable of creating an elaborate
ruse instantly, while under the influence, and under the stress of
having a strange and naked FBI agent woman, bleeding badly from her
butt, in his apartment.
After that, there would have been very little that could have shaken my
confidence in Tom's version of the story.
But then, the cult's version of events were further discredited. In
direct contradiction of the shore stories being fed to the newsgroup by
the clambots, Helena Kobrin took an affidavit from one Linda Woolard to
the L.A. police. Woolard's affidavit claimed that it was she who was
with Tom that night, and it was she who had bloodied Tom's apartment
walls with blood from her hemorrhoids, which she claimed had erupted
and began spurting only after Tom had spontaneously threatened her with
a shotgun.
The affidavit's hemorrhoid story was ludicrous on its face. Moreover,
if Linda Woolard had nothing to do with Scientology, why did she give
her sworn affidavit to Moxon and Kobrin? And how would she even know
about them? How would they know about her?
One of the sock puppets, I believe it was Andrew Milne, weakly claimed
on the newsgroup, that because Scientology was being seen as
unbelievable by a.r.s critics, the cult had decided to seek out the
Woolard woman to find out the truth. But then, how did they find her?
No one knew her real name, as she had given Tom a false name and
falsely claimed to be an FBI agent. How did Scientology find out her
identity if, as Andrew Milne had claimed, she had nothing at all to do
with Scientology?
Milne later floated out a second theory that she must have contacted
Scientology's lawyers after reading all the stories about herself on
the internet. He was pressed on his claim. Did he know if she had done
this, or was this just his acceptable truth shore story? Milne simply
wouldn't say.
The questions arose that if Woolard thought she needed a lawyer, why
would she contact Scientology's lawyers? Why would she not contact a
lawyer out of the yellow pages? Why would she even think she needed to
contact a lawyer at all? After all, she was in no legal trouble, as far
as anyone could tell. No cops appeared to think she needed arresting
for bloodying Tom's walls. No feds appeared to want to question her for
impersonating an FBI agent. Woolard to the best of anyone's knowledge,
had never posted to the newsgroup. If she really had seen the
newsgroup, and wanted to correct false statements, she could have done
so directly, without hiring a lawyer.
Also, contrary to the sock puppet shore story, Kobrin never posted the
affidavit to a.r.s or anywhere else where it would quell criticism.
No, she took the affidavit to the LAPD, probably so she could then use
it as some sort of alleged "police" evidence that she could
subsequently introduce into the civil action they were mounting against
Tom.
I think there is only one conclusion. Quite simply, Scientology tried
to terrorize Tom in order to shut him up, and to coerce his
participation in the silencing of Dennis Erlich.
As unbelievable as all this sounds, the edict to Scientologists to act
this way is right in the LRH policies. Critics were being shown in a
quite literal way, the Scientology policy that says bring actual blood
sex crime evidence to bear against enemies. We were being shown that
Scientology would even stage terrorist acts to manufacture such
evidence.
Needless to say, you stupid OSA culties, it didn't work. And it's still
not working. It's not likely ever to work. Why don't you try a new
tack, like listening, and making reasonable accommodation to the
critics? Nah, what am I saying. The brainwashed will never accept such
woggish 1.1 suggestion as mine, to be kind to people, even those people
they would like to label as enemies.
Oh, BTW, later, an offloaded ex-Scientologist who still was in thrall
to Scientology (Keith Little, posting as 'Whippersnapper') argued
strenuously for the plausibility of Woolard's affidavit, and even went
searching for medical support for the theory that someone's asshole
might actually spurt blood with enough force to have blood hitting the
walls.
He was informed by at least one physician that if someone was bleeding
like that, it would mean ruptured arteries, and the afflicted person
would be in very immediate danger of dying from loss of blood. But did
Linda Woolard's affidavit mention needing medical help? Did she get
weak from loss of blood? No, quite the contrary. According to all
accounts, including her affidavit, she refused medical treatment when
asked by the cops at Tom's apartment. She just waltzed out into the Los
Angeles night, as fit as a fiddle.
I don't know how Whippersnapper ultimately munged that information
around in his mind to exonerated Scientology, but somehow, he seemed to
do it.
So that's the basic story of Miss Bloodybutt. And in 1995, these are
the events that led to Scientology becoming known as the Cult of the
bloody spurtin' hemorrhoid.
As far as I'm concerned, that's a label that still fits today. It will
continue to fit, until those responsible, Mike Rinder, David (*)
Miscavige, Gene Engram (er, I mean Ingram), Helena "Hi HO" Kobrin and
Kendrick Mor^Hxon, not to mention Woolard and Cory Brennan and Andy
Milne, admit to their lies and apologize to Tom Klemesrud for trying to
terrorize him, and until they make some appropriate restitution.
Of course we know that would be more difficult for them than giving a
refund.
Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid
Desertphile
Subject: Re: Recap of the story of Miss Bloodybutt - for Tom Klemesrud
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:25:13 GMT
Message-ID: <3aba5595...@news.wmn.net>
(large trim) > Kaj Malmberg
> det.sgt.
> Helsinki Police
> This Scientology case started on day when a lawyer from a very respected law
> office contacted us and said he was representing the Church of Scientology
> and that he had in his office a privat investigator from the United States
> that had come here to investigate on behalf of the church.
>
> They came to my office in Helsinki and told me that someone had penetrated
> in to a computer in Los Angeles and taken secret information form it. The
> computer was the property of the Church of Scientology.
Obviously that was a lie told by the kriminal kult to the police
officer.
Scientology's OSA department had one or two of it's "agents" work on a
DA package including the incident even before Ms. Bloodybutt tried to
frame Tom Klemesrud. That DA package was to included the claim that Tom
Klemesrud was being questioned by the police about murdering a woman.
(An anonymous telephone call to the police by a woman screaming for
help was probably planned, but the woman was too drunk to perform the
call or remember to call.) The plan was to make Tom Klemesrud appear
that he had murdered someone and then successfully hide / dispose of
the body, and to have him incarcerated for a crime that had not even
been committed.
Only Scientology Inc.'s plan failed: their OSA operative was too drunk
to follow the plan, and Tom Klemesrud managed to thwart the plan by
yelling for help himself (and who wouldn't, when a strange woman comes
into one's residence and starts splattering blood on the walls?!).
Since Scientology's plan was to make a murder appear to have taken
place and also have the body missing, Ms. Bloodybutt had to flee before
the police arrived. She could not withstand a medical investigation
that showed she was not injured. She didn't know that the police had
already been called.
DEFENDANT'S CALL The 911 tape of the Defendant's phone call to LAPD
begins at 21:43 hours. The tape goes as follows:
LAPD: "911 emergency operator 434."
DEFENDANT: "Yea, I have, ah, I'm a , I'm a anti-member of the Church of
Scientology and I have a Scientology member in my apartment building
who bleed all over my bathroom and she's alive and she's fine.
LAPD: "You need the paramedics?
DEFENDANT: "No, not at all. No we don't even need the police."
LAPD: "Okay. What's the problem then sir?"
DEFENDANT: "Ah, we have a scientologist going after an
anti-Scientologist and if you don't understand that you can call the
FBI."
LAPD: "But why do you need the police? Why are you calling 911?"
DEFENDANT: "Because the FBI told me to call."
LAPD: "Who called - told you to call?"
DEFENDANT: "Three, ah, the FBI. You understand their number - 6565?"
LAPD: "Well, why did they tell you to call?"
DEFENDANT: "Because you have...then she said why did they tell me to
call. I'm sitting here with a rabid Scientologist infiltrating my
apartment and the FBI told me to call and I'm calling. Okay? And this
isn't funny. It's not funny. Okay?
LAPD: "I'm not laughing."
DEFENDANT: "I want you to call the FBI and find this out real quick.
Okay? And she's got a lot of blood in my bathroom floor, you know,
hemorrhaging from woman-female things and she's going to blame that on
me. Okay?"
LAPD: "So you want me to call the FBI?"
DEFENDANT: "Absolutely - yes."
LAPD: "Why don't you call the FBI?"
DEFENDANT: "I already did."
LAPD: "But why do you want me to call?"
DEFENDANT: "So you know the story. They told me to call you.
LAPD: "I don't see how I can help you sir. Do you need the paramedics?
Yes or no?"
DEFENDANT: "No, I need the FBI. There's a federal crime - there's been
a federal crime committed here. Okay, as a matter of fact I'm going to
stay on the...as a matter of fact I'm reporting a federal crime and it
is money laundering.
Miss, the crime is money laundering."
LAPD: "Who's doing that?"
DEFENDANT: "The lady in my apartment right now. You call him and I'm
going to stay on the line you asshole! So call him right now!"
LAPD: "One moment sir. I'm going to put you on hold."
(LAPD operator is talking to someone at her location: "Excuse me.
Excuse me. Could you look up the special loop for 5143 Bakman? What
does that mean? What does that tell me? I have this address on the line
and he's talking about the FBI and it sounds like a 5150." [Note: 5150
is police jargon for Welfare and Institution Code Section 5150 which
deals with mentally disturbed individuals.] "Okay. Okay. Thank you.")
DEFENDANT: "Hello sir, is this the FBI?"
LAPD: "No it isn't. What I'm going to do is transfer you to my
supervisor..."
DEFENDANT: "And, and she's squirreling, meaning, meaning that ah, she,
she doesn't go along with, with, with the church's orders."
LAPD: "Stay on the line on moment sir. I'm going to transfer you to my
supervisor.
BUSY SIGNAL.........(LAPD operator unsuccessful in transferring call to
her supervisor."
The call ends at 21:49 hours.
PLAINTIFF'S CALL The 911 call to the Fire Department placed by the
Plaintiff begins at 22:45 hours. It goes as follows:
LAFD: "911 emergency 585."
PLAINTIFF: "Yes. A man has gone out of his mind and I have no clue what
to do with him."
LAFD: "Who is this man, ma'am?
DEFENDANT: "The guy who owns the telephone who has called the FBI
already. This is the Church of Scientology."
LAFD: "Sir, sir, would you put the lady on the phone."
DEFENDANT: "Yes I will. He wants to talk to you."
LAFD: "Okay, ma'am?"
DEFENDANT: "This is the Church of Scientology who is trying to frame
me."
LAFD: "Sir - sir..."
DEFENDANT: "Here is the lady..."
LAFD: "Sir, sir, get off the phone sir!"
DEFENDANT: "The FB......here is the lady."
PLAINTIFF: "Hello."
LAFD: "Okay ma'am, what is this man doing to you? This man that's right
there. The one I just talked to.
PLAINTIFF: "The one that put a 12 gauge to your head. The one that says
you can't go to the bathroom because you're hemorrhaging."
LAFD: "Stay on the line. Let me transfer you to the police operator so
they can switch you to the police.
PLAINTIFF: "Thank you."
LAPD: Los Angeles Police Department..."
PLAINTIFF: "I need some kind of help here."
LAPD: "What's the problem?"
PLAINTIFF: "This man's paranoid. I don't know. He won't allow me to go
to the bathroom.
LAPD: "Who are you talking about?"
PLAINTIFF: "I'm hemorrhaging right now.......12 gauge and moved it up
and said, 'don't worry about shooting me if you want to'....I think
perhaps you ought to come over.....I don't know what to do about this
situation. I really don't know what to do.
LAPD: "What is the address?"
PLAINTIFF: "I'm sorry, I have no clue right now...I'm hemorrhaging.
LAPD: "You don't live there?"
PLAINTIFF: "No I don't."
LAPD: "How did you get there? Hold on for the paramedics."
DEFENDANT: "Yes, miss?
LAPD: "Yes."
DEFENDANT: "Yea you're going to have to....."
LAFD: "Paramedics 405. May I help you?"
(Note: LAPD and LAFD are both on the line)
LAPD: "What did you say?"
DEFENDANT: "You're going to get a better, ah...you're going to get a
better ah...shit. This is the Church of Scientology trying to set up
somebody who is a critic...that's what this is...okay?"
LAFD: "He's a what?"
DEFENDANT: "This is the Church of Scientology trying to set up a
critic."
LAPD to LAFD: "The lady said she was hemorrhaging so I transferred to
you...I don't know what..."
DEFENDANT: "I don't think she's hemorrhaging, but, you know, if she's
hemorrhaging she did it herself. See I don't know women does that."
LAPD: "What's wrong with you?"
DEFENDANT: "Huh?"
LAPD: "What's wrong with you?"
DEFENDANT: "I've had...I've had a few drinks...that's all that's wrong
with me.
LAPD: "Is it your girlfriend?"
DEFENDANT: No. Absolutely not. She met me at the bar.
You've got to call the FBI. The FBI understands. Okay?
LAFD: "You're calling from your own apartment?"
DEFENDANT: "Yea, and I have friends at the FBI and they know my name.
You know my name."
LAFD: "I thought you said this was the Church of Scientology."
DEFENDANT: "Absolutely...yea...this...yes it is and she has the ability
to train my shotgun on me and shoot me but she won't do that."
LAFD: "Hold on a second...hold on a second..."
DEFENDANT: "If the police come there's no threatening situation..."
LAFD: "Hold on one second please. Okay PD are you going to handle?"
LAPD: "Yea, we got it. Bye."
The call ended at 22:49 hours.
Tom Klemesrud
Don't think you are right on this one. Since Tom Cruise, maybe even
Katie Holmes, may have knowledge of any possible actions taken against
Paul for his website, this case might well get lots of international
attention; even if Cruise is not called to testify.
pt...@webtv.net
barb wrote:
> David Cary Hart wrote:
>
> > On Saturday 29 October 2005 12:09, Ball of Fluff opined:
> >
> >
> >>His apartment was gone through and he has already described a pattern
> >>of harassment from CofS - PREVIOUSLY- over this Scientomogy website.
> >>
> >>
> >>He needs to alert the media, too.
> >>
> >
> > Taking it at face value (disregarding some inconsistencies); He *needs*
> > to do nothing until he consults with a reputable criminal attorney! He
> > never should have posted here in the first place.
> >
Probably true. Too premature to share and post on public forum. If the
goons want to stick him with a [crime] they would have leaked it
themselves in due time. Case in point...
======================================================
Subject: DRUNK FUCK - Yep that's Padgett
Date: 12 April 2000
From: a...@cotse.com
Organization: mail...@dizum.com
Newsgroup: alt.religion.scientology
Tom Padgett has joined the growing list of critics already
implicated in alcohol-related busts.
The list of non-invitees to MADD picnics just keeps on growing:
1. Jesse Prince
2. Karin Case
3. John Merrett
4. Rob Clark
5. Barbara Graham
6. Joe Lynn
7. Tom Padgett
Feel free to add to the list. I'm sure I don't have them all.
Keep in mind this is only alcohol related.
We could start a drug related list I guess.
<end of post>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
When this type of thing comes out, BEFORE any reports, proceedings, and
admissions, ya know OSA wants yer arse nailed to the wall....or cross.
>
> --
> --barb
> Chaplain,ARSCC
> xenu...@netscape.net
>
> "Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
> form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
> This assistance might involve holding you against your
> will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
> friends and family, and denying you access to
> appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
> for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
> the release form absolves your caretakers of all
> responsibility for your suffering and death.
>
> Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
>
> --Dr. Dave Touretzky
> Peter Alexander
Tom
---------------
www.fairgamed.org
Tom Klemesrud
That's right Deana, however the prosecution must show some reasonable
proof that Paul drove his car while drunk; otherwise they only have
public intoxication.
Tom Klemesrud
> "Mirele" <mir...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1130601132....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>I'd like to be sympathetic to this, really I would. But I can't. The
>>story's nothing more than a stinking, steaming pile. And the actions of
>>drunk drivers have real-world consequences. A very good friend of mine
>>nearly died because of the actions of a rush hour drunk some years
>>back.
>
>
> But, Mirele, he's saying he only had a couple drinks. Not a fifth of liquor.
>
> We know he's been harassed over his 'site for a while, by CofS. And now his
> apartment was gone through and tossed.
>
> It sounds to me like he was slipped some roofies than some booze poured down
> his throat.
Injecting alcohol into his body would get the same results too.
>
> And it sounds like it could be CofS.
Very likely I think, if the story he tells is true. Of course he
doesn't have to prove his story is true to get out of his problem with
the law. They have to prove that he was driving; not getting a ride in
the back seat in some FOP Op.
Desertphile
you live and where you work--- he was at both places. If you can get a
photograph of him to show the parking attendant perhaps the parking
attendant can identify him as the person driving your car. The casino
security tape might also show the PI near you.
Tom Klemesrud
My local sheriff disputes your figures. He says you can drive three
beers in an hour and still be below .08.
Give a sitation when you bring figures like this...and not some FOP site.
Desertphile
car keys.
mail.com
<tom...@netscape.delete.net> wrote:
> Ball of Fluff wrote:
>> It sounds to me like he was slipped some roofies than
>> some booze poured down his throat.
> Injecting alcohol into his body would get the same results too.
To not varnish the issue, he ought to also have his anus checked
for traces of alcohol or any device that might have introduced
alcohol. The problem with pouring alcohol down an unconscious
person's throat is that the person's throat tends to snap shut.
Alcohol introduced via the anus "works" also.
Tom Klemesrud
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:00:01 -0700, Tom Klemesrud
> <tom...@netscape.delete.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Ball of Fluff wrote:
>
>
>>>It sounds to me like he was slipped some roofies than
>>>some booze poured down his throat.
>
>
>>Injecting alcohol into his body would get the same results too.
>
>
> To not varnish the issue, he ought to also have his anus checked
> for traces of alcohol or any device that might have introduced
> alcohol. The problem with pouring alcohol down an unconscious
> person's throat is that the person's throat tends to snap shut.
> Alcohol introduced via the anus "works" also.
It could have been injected too.
Desertphile
> apartment. It was around 2 AM. We had just come from the Casino playing
> $20 on Black Jack. We had each drank about 2-3 Coronas (12 oz beers).
How well, and how long, have you known this "friend?"
Tom Klemesrud
I would give the same advise to cos. If this was their black operation
in some attempt to stop ridicule of Tom Cruise for Paul's website
http://www.scienTOMogy.com , it could very seriously blow up in their
faces, like their attempts at stoping http://www.scienTOMogy.info that
blew up in their faces, and provided internation news on their attempts
to silence criticism of themselves, and ridicule of Tom Cruise.
Phil Scott
<pt...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1130622762....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
well...one thing is certainly clear on this issue...
....we need a LOT more scienTOMology web sites, mirrors and
back ups... dozens, and with all the info and links. The
world probably needs a few ScienTOMcatology web sites as
well...after all it was Tom Cruize that brought the subject up
so effcctively.. sites with those names are clearly both in
the public interest and obviously related to those interests.
Legal and appropriate.
Tomcatology, a subsection of ScienTOMology, may be the next
giant step for mankind. Hiding this from the world, whether
the attempt comes from the law, critics or scientology itself
would be a crime of the century.
Clearly Tom knows whats at stake and has put it all on the
line to get the world out.. it is very unfortunate that he is
not getting the support he deserves from the mohtha
orgaiiizaation.
Phil Scott, assisting scientology anyway he can.
>
Phil Scott
"Tom Klemesrud" <tom...@netscape.delete.net> wrote in message
news:4363...@news2.lightlink.com...
http://www.scienTOMogy.com
http://www.scienTOMogy.info
Wow...are *these the hot web sites... dang, I hope those dont
get spread all over the web, and mirrored. That could get
entirely out of control.
Phil Scott
Mark Thorson
>
> To not varnish the issue, he ought to also have his anus checked
> for traces of alcohol or any device that might have introduced
> alcohol. The problem with pouring alcohol down an unconscious
> person's throat is that the person's throat tends to snap shut.
> Alcohol introduced via the anus "works" also.
Wouldn't it be uncharacteristic of a certain cult
to use a tactic not described in works of fiction or
a policy letter from a certain insane sci-fi writer?
Or did he describe this "tech" somewhere?
(At the same time, not meaning to suggest your advice
is not good advice. If this is a new tactic, it should
become widely known immediately.)
Ball of Fluff
"barb" <bwa...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4363d994$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
> >
> <snip>
> In california that only works if you don't have the car keys in your
> possession...and sometimes, not even then.
Seattle, too. Must be a blue state screaming raving liberal thang.
;->
C
Ball of Fluff
<clk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130615100.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Good advice, abc.
>
> You know, standards of logic and proof don't, or shouldn't, get thrown
> out the window when the accusation being made is against Scientologists
> or the Church of Scientology.
>
> Just a question - why exactly should anyone believe that any
> Scientologist committed blatantly illegal, criminal behavior (drugging,
> kidnapping, with that BAC attempted murder, breaking and entering)
> against some guy with whom they have a pretty dull domain name dispute?
> What proof? What pattern of behavior does this fit?
Well, there was the Paulette Cooper op and the Ms Bloody Butt one.
And they were already targetting him.
But, still, all I can do is speculate.
Put it this way- if it turns out that CofS did this, turns out to be an
incontrovertible fact- it would not surprise me.
They do a lot of stupid ops that don't make sense.
If I hated critics (instead of wanting to kiss 'em all and hug 'em and
loooove 'em and call 'em George as I do) and was in CofS in charge of ops, I
sure as shit wouldn't have picked any of the stuff they picked. Like
decreeing Toronto to be a hot spot and concentrating so much of their
efforts on it as they did. Various stupid ass shit like that.
So you can't always expect 'em to make sense, but I'm sure you knew this.
>
> If the answer is "none," then one might consider that there are pretty
> clear scenarios that fit what's described here, but I won't get into
> that except to say that Scientologists have nothing to do with that.
True.
This is what I like about this forum. People here have been asking
intelligent questions and not assuming that it's CofS right off the bat-
whereas on another forum, well, same people who think Padgett was oh so put
upon by CofS when we all know that wasn't the case...
>
> In the meantime, seriously, get a lawyer. And Scientology is not a
> catchall target for anything someone does not want to take
> responsibility for.
True 'nuff.
But if he really only did have a couple beers and then this happened, then
something bad did happen.By somebody or some entity.
John said what bothered him about this was that he's driving, gets out of
his car, then walks up the stairs then blacks out. Says timing too good. If
there were roofies or something in his drink, who's to say that he'd not
crash his car, feel like crap before he even got home?
I said it occurred to me that maybe it wasn't roofies or something in the
drink. Maybe nothing in the drink, only had 2 or 3 beers, then gets out of
the car, walks up the steps, and someone comes in from behind with
chloroform or something.He doesn't see 'em and blanks out that very small
instance where it was happening.
Who knows?
C
Ball of Fluff
"Magoo" <mag...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:4363c852$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
>
> "Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote in message
> news:43639fb1$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
> >
> > "Mirele" <mir...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1130601132....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> I'd like to be sympathetic to this, really I would. But I can't. The
> >> story's nothing more than a stinking, steaming pile. And the actions of
> >> drunk drivers have real-world consequences. A very good friend of mine
> >> nearly died because of the actions of a rush hour drunk some years
> >> back.
> >
> > But, Mirele, he's saying he only had a couple drinks. Not a fifth of
> > liquor.
> >
> > We know he's been harassed over his 'site for a while, by CofS. And now
> >
> > It sounds to me like he was slipped some roofies than some booze poured
> > down his throat.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Since I live and drive in Mesa, AZ, I'd like to thank the Mesa Police
> >> Department for getting a .19 BAC off the streets of my city.
> >>
> >> Paul Horner may be a so-called "critic", but that doesn't mean he's
> >> exempt from the law.
> >>
> >
> > But he's saying he didn't have a fifth of liquor, which is what it would
> > have taken- that or an equivalent- to make his alcohol level rise to
that
> > level.
> >
> >
> > C
>
> drunk driving, in fact, I know I have just as much passion against it as
you
> do, and I'm sure most here do, too.
>
> However, many of us have been Fair Gamed, set up, and screwed by the
> organiztion hiding behind the curtain of religion:
> The "church" <gack for them!> of Scientology. If you read what Paul wrote,
> he wasn't driving drunk.
But to play devil's advocate here,not like nobody's ever blamed CofS for
their own shit before...like He Who Shall Remain Nameless but who whines and
posts all over here and on another forum...
Some people ~lie~.
I personally believe Fred, but we're really not gonna know.We may never
know.
Thing is,too many people here- and that does include me- are too quick to
believe that CofS is the culprit when stuff happens. And as we've seen here
in at least one high profile legal case, it ain't always so.
>Our guess, over on Operation Clambake, is that he
> was Tazar'd..............or hit with a needle filled with something that
> knocked him out. Tazar's do long enough to drive someone for 20 min's the
> cops told me.
>
> Was it that? His blood test shall tell what's up for real.
Not if he didn't take it in time. Yeah,he should have asked for one right
off the bat but he was too groggy to do so.
>They won't tell
> re the Tazar, but if he was hurt, which it sounds like in the back, that
> Dr's can see and note.
Good observation.
C
Lisa Ruby
I am so sorry you were set up like this. My family and I are praying
for you.
I believe that unless God intervenes, the judge will rule against you.
Even if
it was found that you were injected with something (which you probably
were) it does not necessarily prove you were a victim. They could argue
that you did it to yourself and then took the wheel.
I think it is likely that the 12 policemen who strangely appeared out
of nowhere (!) will make sure that you will not get any video footage
of your car pulling onto the curb.
Scientology needs to make examples out of critics and you are supposed
to be one of them. May God in His mercy overrrule them.
Sincerely,
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
clk...@gmail.com
Ball of Fluff wrote:
> <clk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1130615100.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Good advice, abc.
> >
> > You know, standards of logic and proof don't, or shouldn't, get thrown
> > out the window when the accusation being made is against Scientologists
> > or the Church of Scientology.
> >
> > Just a question - why exactly should anyone believe that any
> > Scientologist committed blatantly illegal, criminal behavior (drugging,
> > kidnapping, with that BAC attempted murder, breaking and entering)
> > against some guy with whom they have a pretty dull domain name dispute?
> > What proof? What pattern of behavior does this fit?
>
> Well, there was the Paulette Cooper op and the Ms Bloody Butt one.
>
> And they were already targetting him.
>
I see what you are saying, but in recent years, there have been much
"bigger" critics, who have received a lot of attention. And in no case
has something like this been seen. I also think someone who makes
extraordinary claims against others and asks for support has a
requirement to provide some evidence for what he is claiming. And
that's not been done in this case. This is blatant, illegal, criminal
behavior allegedly aimed at some guy with whom the Church has a domain
name dispute. (As has been posted in another thread, this is not his
first venture into domain name disputes. Previously, it was with
Amazon.com and Microsoft.) If this is anyone's major target, I would be
shocked.
On the other hand, it also sounds like a guy who got very, very drunk.
But I am not going to make any kinds of allegations or accusations. I
think he needs to get a lawyer.
> >
> > If the answer is "none," then one might consider that there are pretty
> > clear scenarios that fit what's described here, but I won't get into
> > that except to say that Scientologists have nothing to do with that.
>
> True.
>
> This is what I like about this forum. People here have been asking
> intelligent questions and not assuming that it's CofS right off the bat-
> whereas on another forum, well, same people who think Padgett was oh so put
> upon by CofS when we all know that wasn't the case...
Asking questions and keeping a sense of critical thinking, logic and
inquiry even when someone blames Scientology, Scientologists, or the
Church of Scientology is indeed a good thing.
>
>
> >
> > In the meantime, seriously, get a lawyer. And Scientology is not a
> > catchall target for anything someone does not want to take
> > responsibility for.
>
> True 'nuff.
>
> But if he really only did have a couple beers and then this happened, then
> something bad did happen.By somebody or some entity.
I do hear that, but I don't see a reason to believe what appears to be
a completely implausible story that interjects Scientology and
Scientologists for no apparent reason. Might as well blame the guy down
the street, or the lady one had an argument with last week, or for that
matter, Amazon.com or Microsoft.
And if you're going to ask for money, etc, then you ought to have a
plausible story that makes sense.
>
> John said what bothered him about this was that he's driving, gets out of
> his car, then walks up the stairs then blacks out. Says timing too good. If
> there were roofies or something in his drink, who's to say that he'd not
> crash his car, feel like crap before he even got home?
>
Per this story, he got home, then somehow got into his car about 8
hours later outside his job, in a car accident. What would anyone from
the Church of Scientology have to do with this? Why is that a plausible
explanation for what happened? Is there any reason to believe that
Scientologists were following this guy everywhere he went and
kidnapping him? That he would be such an important target to anyone
that they would go through all of this overt criminal behavior and be
able to justify that to themselves and the possible risk it would bring
down on others and the entire organization?
The story as written just doesn't make any sense and the addition of
Scientology to the story doesn't make it make any more sense. It's
missing a whole lot of necessary information, and has added information
that doesn't seem to be connected or applicable to anything related to
a chronicle of what happened.
As always, glad to hear your thoughts.
Charlotte
tobyty...@yahoo.com
David Rice, Esq. wrote:
>
> To not varnish the issue, he ought to also have his anus checked
> for traces of alcohol or any device that might have introduced
> alcohol. The problem with pouring alcohol down an unconscious
> person's throat is that the person's throat tends to snap shut.
> Alcohol introduced via the anus "works" also.
David, I totally do NOT want to know *how* you learned this...
Peace,
Toby
--
"Sure, not smoking ENOUGH can cause cancer..." --- L. Ron Hubbard
Simkatu
barb wrote:
> SirLagsALot wrote:
>
> > You dont say in your post what it is you are being charged with, I am going
> > to assume it was DUI/DWI.
> > If you were in the back seat when you awoke, and not operating the vehicle
> > when police arrived, and nobody witnessed you operating the vehicle....
> > Then an argument can be made that you were not driving under the influence,
> > not that this argument will be successful.
> > Throwing up conspiracy theories without any supporting evidence isnt going
> > to get anywhere either.
> > You need a witness....start knocking on doors and making phone calls...find
> > that witness.
> >
> >
> <snip>
> In california that only works if you don't have the car keys in your
> possession...and sometimes, not even then.
The story about getting rid of the car keys to get out of a DUI is just
an urban legend. Its been often told and repeated for 30 years, but it
just isn't true.
In no state does the DUI/DWI law require that the police officer catch
you with the keys in your possession, or even catch you behind the
wheel at all.
Circumstantial evidence is more than enough to get you convicted.
If they find your totaled car run into a tree, and then find you
walking down a road a mile a away with a bruise on your forehead and a
BAC of .19, that is plenty enough evidence to present to a judge and I
suspect that is plenty enough evidence for a typical jury to convict.
I don't believe the defense of "Scientologists injected alcohol into my
veins or up my ass" is a credible one. In fact, to use the words of
many judges that Barbara Schwarz has dealt with, "I find the argument
to be fanciful in nature."
My advice to Paul:
1. Get sober
2. Stay sober
3. Get an attorney
4. Don't drop the soap
clk...@gmail.com
Paul Horner/"Fred Durks" in his story of alleged kidnapping, drugging
and poisoning, allegedly by Scientologists, although no proof is
offered for this allegation whatsoever, readers should consider some
important and omitted information. There were a number of people who
were very concerned about this story and did some research, including
Mirele, henri and others.
First, "Fred Durks"/Paul Horner is not the domain holder of
ScienTOMogy.info, the site that has been much in the news of late. He
is the domain holder of scientomogy.com, a site that came along later,
and also of stopscientology.com, boycottscientology.com and other sites
that utilize the word "Scientology" in their names.
This is not the first incident of domain name conflict that Mr. Horner
has been involved in. His prior cases include that which was posted to
this newsgroup earlier in the day, which involved his ownership of
"amazonbooks.com" and "amazononline.net." To quote from henri's post
earlier in the day:
"Paul Horner has had other domain disputes, including some pretty
questionable registrations similar to Amazon.com including
amazonbooks.com and amazononline.net. The first case is
the subject of a WIPO Arbitration. That is available here, and
concerns the amazonbooks.com domain registration.
There are some disturbing similarities in his current domain
registrations
and the previous ones related to Amazon. For example, he is using
them to sell his shotglasses and has a poker affiliate banner on the
bottom of his site. This means if a person signs up to the poker site
through
his banner link, he gets a percentage of the revenue they generate. Not
that there is anything wrong per se with any of this, but it provides a
strong argument for commercial use of the domain name, which is a very
bad thing for a claim of noninfringing use.
That is available here.
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2003/d2003-0071.html "
Mr. Horner's domain problems did not end with Amazon, however. He also
owned microsoftsite.com, which he used to promote porn links.
Unsurprisingly, he also lost this domain name dispute, which may be
viewed at:
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2002/d2002-0029.html
>From that document:
"The disputed domain name has been used to direct Internet users to a
website at Internet address <www.microsoftsite.com>. As of September
27, 2001, that website was headed with a banner "Microsoftsite". The
content on the center of the home page stated "Win Free Porn for Life",
and included, inter alia, a pornographic photograph with label "The
Hottest Slutty Lesbians on the Net!! Stills, Videos and more!!" The
home page included a list headed "Microsoft's Favorites", with links
such as "Microsoft's bitches". It also included lists for "Hot Porn"
and "Other Stuff Besides Porn" (Complaint, Annex F). The content on the
<www.microsoftsite.com> website changed from time to time. As of
December 31, 2001, the home page included a picture of "My dog,
Microsoft" and a young man labeled "Me, the owner of Microsoft", along
with multiple links to pornographic websites, and a posting of a cease
and desist and transfer demand from Complainant's counsel to
Respondent. (Id., Annex E) "
Mr. Horner currently owns http://www.monsterjobs.org/ which is
currently the subject of an active complaint by Monster.com, the well
known jobs-online company. This is visible at:
http://www.monsterjobs.org/letter1.html
>From the above behavior, it is clear that Mr. Horner is not new to
cybersquatting. It is also of interest that Mr. Horner receives the
resumes filled out at this site, because he has a sideline business in
selling names to mortgage brokers.
Cybersquatting, however, is only one of Mr. Horner's questionable
behaviors and actions.
When he's not describing his occupation as "drinking", he's describing
it as "stopping cult ass nigas'." But in reality, he seems to dedicate
a great deal of his time to spamming blogs, and websites, to promote
his business selling mortgage leads. He does promote the sale of shot
glasses on his "stopscientology.com" website, as well as an online
poker game of which he is an affiliate, who receives money for all
signups. He is the owner of "soberhookup.com," as has been pointed out,
which markets an array of shot glasses as well as flasks to hide
liquor, as well as promoting his shot glasses with the following
tagline: " Yo- these ill shot glasses get the girlies real drunk. Girls
that don't do shots DO shots with these shot glasses."
But back to the spamming and mortgage leads issue...
http://www.netskrill.com/ is a project to which Mr. Horner is
connected. He has an email address at pa...@netskrill.com. It is unclear
whether actual mortgages are obtainable. It is clear that he does sell
leads theoretically gathered through this site, and perhaps
monsterjobs.org.
You may see an example of his advertising to sell these leads here:
http://discussion.brokeroutpost.com/ Search the site (use "find on this
page") for "netskrill".
While selling leads there, he's fishing for leads here:
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/8/prweb276400.htm
And you can see him pushing more of these shadily obtained leads here:
http://forum.brokeroutpost.com/loans/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9140&whichpage=6
And for the kind of advice he gives about fair lending, especially to
"drunkards," a population toward which one might expect greater
sympathy:
"Jeff Gruhler- Any good loan officer knows the best way to get a deal
is to listen to the customer and talk to them the same way they are
talking to you. I made 20k in fees on a guy that would drob the F bomb
every 10 words that came out of his mouth. So, I did the same. I made
10k in fees off a guy that would always call me high off his azz. I
talked to him about partying. Those two guys alone, have sent me
atleast 5-10 referrals a piece. I work with lease to purchase agents or
real estate agents that call me. When I'm talking to them I talk to
them just as professional as they are talking to me. People like to
deal with themselves. So what if the Jack Daniels guy might be a hard
loan or he gets all drunk. Any sub prime bank in the world will lend
%60 LTV or higher on a deal like that. And if the drunkard trust you
and likes the way you are dealing with him, he's a perfect target for
%6.99 in fees."
(http://forum.brokeroutpost.com/loans/forum/2/316.htm)
In this context, it's worth noting that Mr. Horner no longer claims to
have lost his job. In fact, he now claims, per OCMB, that: "Just so you
know, even though I have no clue why I even have to explain myself to
you, but I own about 5 different companies, all with LLC's. I have a
mortgage brokers license. I got let go of where I ran my mortgage
company because it didn't look good with the whole cops in front thing.
It was a mutual agreement to change to a different location. I'm not
losing any money, in fact I'll probably make more now since when I was
there in that office a lot of my day was spent on little projects they
needed done, and I was glad to help. Now I have no distractions except
making sure my employees do their job. " Theoretically, he is referring
to this project: http://cresaz.com/
Mr. Horner maintains an array of blogs to promote his "business
ventures"...or what is commonly known as blog-spamming:
http://www.netskrill.blogspot.com/
http://www.queencreekhomes.blogspot.com/
http://az-lease-option.blogspot.com/2005/08/arizona-homes-for-lease-option.html
www.lease-option.blogspot.com/
among many others. It is worth noting that for a time, his website was
hosted at
"http://www.monster-jobs.org/stopscientology/".
For people assessing this situation and determining whether Mr.
Horner's story makes sense and is worthy of support, please look at the
above, and consider whether Mr. Horner is a victim - or a scam artist.
Charlotte
realpch
Well they said they had 2-3 beers each, big ones.By conventional wisdom,
that means they had at least 3! God knows what happened. Also, alcohol
can produce blackouts, where people are walking around doing stuff and
they have absolutely no memory of it. I'm from Missouri on this one.
Peach
roger gonnet
<clk...@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1130646342....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ball of Fluff wrote:
>> <clk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1130615100.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > Good advice, abc.
>> >
>> > You know, standards of logic and proof don't, or shouldn't, get thrown
>> > out the window when the accusation being made is against Scientologists
>> > or the Church of Scientology.
>> >
>> > Just a question - why exactly should anyone believe that any
>> > Scientologist committed blatantly illegal, criminal behavior (drugging,
>> > kidnapping, with that BAC attempted murder, breaking and entering)
>> > against some guy with whom they have a pretty dull domain name dispute?
>> > What proof? What pattern of behavior does this fit?
>>
>> Well, there was the Paulette Cooper op and the Ms Bloody Butt one.
>>
>> And they were already targetting him.
>>
>
> I see what you are saying, but in recent years, there have been much
> "bigger" critics, who have received a lot of attention. And in no case
> has something like this been seen.
Yes, but don't forget that one of the advices from elrong was to change the
methods so as to disrupt the "enemy". They have many times changed some of their
tricky spies. True, they come back with the same years later, but...
I also think someone who makes
> extraordinary claims against others and asks for support has a
> requirement to provide some evidence for what he is claiming. And
> that's not been done in this case.
Indeed. That's the very first thing I asked this guy: his demands look possible
but nto so much; he has to give some evidences of what he says.
r
Orkeltatte aka Ulf Brettstam
Fred Durks wrote:
> I don't usually post here, so I'm going to stay on this thread at
> http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=15069 because I'm looking at
> Jailtime, fines, plus I already lost my job. I just thought maybe some
> ARS posters could offer some help.
>
> Please email me at fr...@stopscientology.com if you can help in anyway-
>
> What religion would do this to a critic? Anyway- I have till NOV 28th
> to prove my case. Any help would be appreciated.
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> The story I'm about to tell is %100 true, I swear to god. I'm posting
> it because I need help and I don't want to go to jail.
>
> Early Thursday morning, 10/28/05 my friend was dropping me off at my
> apartment. It was around 2 AM. We had just come from the Casino playing
> $20 on Black Jack. We had each drank about 2-3 Coronas (12 oz beers).
>
> something happened. I can't describe what, but something came around me
> or......Everything became cloudy and then, I blacked out %100.
>
> The next thing I know it's around 10:45 AM (10/28/05) and my brain
> turns on again. I'm in the back seat of my car. I open my door and I
> see that my car had hit a curb directly in front of my office building
> where I work. My mind state was like a dream, I could barely walk and
> couldn't think straight. I opened my driver door and tried backing up
> but my car was stuck. In a foggy like dream state, I went up to the
> parking attendant and asked if he could help me. I could hear myself
> slurring but didn't understand why.
>
> Then when I go back to my car, out of no where, like 12 cops show up.
> They asked me what happened and I told them that I didn't know. I told
> them I had no clue how I got there. Still, the words coming out of my
> mouth were very hard to speak and it was still like I was in some kind
> of drug induced hallucination.
>
> They gave me a breathalyzer test. I blew a .19 at 10:45 AM.
>
> For those that don't know what a .19 is - basically you would need to
> drink a fifth of 80 percent liquor to achieve those kinds of numbers.
>
> I was handcuffed and arrested. I blacked out again.
>
> I remember being in a holding cell. I remember them drawing blood from
> me, which I will have access to in a few days to see what was in my
> system.
>
> I was in jail for over 11 hours until I could get bonded out.
>
> When I finally got home, my apartment was a wreck. Papers gone through,
> boxes knocked over. I was going to call the cops but I was scared
> because the previous 11 hours of cops was enough for me.
>
> Then I logically tried to figure out how this could have happened.
>
> I have had a half bottle of Tequila in my freezer for the last few
> weeks. I opened my freezer and there was still a half bottle of
> Tequila.
>
> Then I remembered that I had about 10 xanax that I keep on hand because
> sometimes I get real bad anxiety attacks. I only use them in
> emergencies when the pain from anxiety gets too bad. I still had the
> same 10 xanax that I had before this incident.
>
> NOTHING ELSE IN MY HOUSE COULD HAVE DONE THIS TO ME. IN ARIZONA THEY DO
> NOT SERVE ALCOHOL AFTER 2 AM.
>
> I DO NOT REMEMBER ANYTHING FROM WHEN I WAS WALKING UP TO MY APARTMENT
> AND THE COPS SHOWING UP.
>
> This morning, 10/28/05, I had my first court appearance where I pleaded
> not guilty. I showed up to work after the court appearance and they
> said they had to let me go because of the scene I made in front of
> their offices that looked like an episode of COPS.
>
> I said that was fine. I make plenty of money to support my self with my
> other web site stuff, and will actually make more since I can devote
> all my time to it now.
>
> According to Arizona law, because of the .19 that I blew, I have to
> serve 30 days in jail.
>
> The court case to show evidence or prove my case is NOV 28th 2005.
>
> Congrats to you scientologist pieces of shit on this temporary victory.
> You got my car impounded, got me fired from my job, and I'm now facing
> possible jail time.
>
> I don't have a lawyer anymore because that was through my work.
>
> Any ideas, suggestions, or help would be much appreciated-
>
> Paul Horner
> AKA FRED DURKS
> PM me - respond to the thread - or email me at pa...@netskrill.com
>
> SCIENTOLOGIST- I WILL NOT STOP EXPOSING YOUR CON- DRUG ME, KICK THE
> SHIT OUT OF ME, WHATEVER. THIS ONLY MAKES ME MORE PISSED TO PUT AN END
> TO YOUR SCAM. YOU MIGHT HAVE LIMITED MY RESOURCES A LITTLE TEMPORARILY,
> BUT I HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY COMING IN FROM LEGITIMATE BUSINESSES I OWN.
> YOU WILL BE EXPOSED, YOU CAN GUARANTEE THAT.
>
>
> STOP SCIENTOLOGY!
> http://www.stopscientology.com
> http://www.scientomogy.com
> http://www.boycottscientology.com
> http://www.whatisscientology.net
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> This thread is at.....
> http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=15069
If you drank from a glass at the casino , there is a possibility
someone has slipped GHB in your drink. You should request that the
blood tests taken should be analyzed for traces of GHB.
GHB: Gamma hydroxy butyrate or Gamma hydroxybutyric acid, Sodium
Oxybate
Description: A clear liquid. Looks just like water. Can be mistaken
for water because it is usually found in a small (30ml) clear plastic
bottle, a water bottle, or even Gatorade bottles, which contains
several doses. One quick taste, and you'll know it's not water. Not as
common, but also found as a white powder. Infact powder use is on the
rise!
Effects: Intoxication, increased energy, happiness, talking, desire to
socialize, feeling affectionate and playful, mild disinhibition,
sensuality, enhanced sexual experience, muscle relaxation, loss of
coordination due to loss of muscle tone, possible nausea, difficulty
concentrating, loss of gag reflex.
Many people have bad reactions. These can include nausea, headaches,
drowsiness, dizziness, amnesia, vomiting, loss of muscle control,
respiratory problems, loss of consciousness, being conscious but unable
to move, and death- Especially when combined with alcohol or other
drugs.
Effects of large doses: Disinhibition, sedation, desire to sleep,
rambling incoherent speech, giddiness, silliness, difficulty thinking,
slurred speech, passing out, and death.
Effects of overdose: Sleep or deep sedation from which you cannot be
awakened by any means for about three hours, and in many cases, death.
You can read more on this drug here:
http://www.projectghb.org/what_is_ghb.htm
http://www.projectghb.org/references.htm
Ulf Brettstam, MD.
mail.com
> David Rice, Esq. wrote:
> > To not varnish the issue, he ought to also have his anus checked
> > for traces of alcohol or any device that might have introduced
> > alcohol. The problem with pouring alcohol down an unconscious
> > person's throat is that the person's throat tends to snap shut.
> > Alcohol introduced via the anus "works" also.
> David, I totally do NOT want to know *how* you learned this...
LOL! Then I will not tell you about a girl I knew in high
school.... and how she used a tampon.
> Peace,
> Toby
>
> --
> "Sure, not smoking ENOUGH can cause cancer..." --- L. Ron Hubbard
>
---
mail.com
> Ball of Fluff wrote:
> > Well, there was the Paulette Cooper op and the Ms Bloody Butt one.
> > And they were already targetting him.
> I see what you are saying, but in recent years, there have been much
> "bigger" critics, who have received a lot of attention. And in no case
> has something like this been seen. I also think someone who makes
> extraordinary claims against others and asks for support has a
> requirement to provide some evidence for what he is claiming. And
> that's not been done in this case. This is blatant, illegal, criminal
> behavior allegedly aimed at some guy with whom the Church has a domain
> name dispute. (As has been posted in another thread, this is not his
> first venture into domain name disputes. Previously, it was with
> Amazon.com and Microsoft.) If this is anyone's major target, I would be
> shocked.
You are assuming that Scientology Inc. was possibly working alone
in this apparent / possible frame-up. However, there is a Private
Investigator in Arizona who has the motive to do such a thing.
Susan
To those of you who have efficiently found this information, thank you.
Susan
Lisa Ruby
>GHB: Gamma hydroxy butyrate or Gamma hydroxybutyric acid, Sodium
>Oxybate
>Description: A clear liquid. Looks just like water. Can be mistaken
>for water because it is usually found in a small (30ml) clear plastic
>bottle, a water bottle, or even Gatorade bottles, which contains
>several doses. One quick taste, and you'll know it's not water. Not as
>common, but also found as a white powder. Infact powder use is on the
>rise!
What does it taste like? Is it possible to mask its taste in
non-alcoholic beverages?
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Larry T.
news:nqt8m1tac9kbip1lr...@4ax.com...
>
> In <1130646572.2...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> tobyty...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>
>>David Rice, Esq. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> To not varnish the issue, he ought to also have his anus checked
>>> for traces of alcohol or any device that might have introduced
>>> alcohol. The problem with pouring alcohol down an unconscious
>>> person's throat is that the person's throat tends to snap shut.
>>> Alcohol introduced via the anus "works" also.
>>
>>David, I totally do NOT want to know *how* you learned this...
>>
>>Peace,
>>Toby
>
> google for yourself, shouldn't be hard. I'm not particularly perverted
> and I know dozens of people that do wine enemas sort of frequently.
> Shucks, people used to do peyote and psilocybin enemas, or whatever
> (don't wanna know about goat and jello products, thanks!) of the sort,
> spun with milk or orange juice, to avoid gastric problems.
>
> Kids now days ...
>
>
A coffee is also quite popular among health buffs not people attempting to
deny perversion stranger Luke.
--
Larry
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoqz2m/scientology/
>
Orkeltatte aka Ulf Brettstam
Doesn´t taste when pured in a drink. There are also different grades
of concentration. A very small ( couple of ml) can kill you if
concentrated.
It also doesn´t smell.
Ulf
Hartley Patterson
> Before lending uncritical support, or, especially, donating money to
> Paul Horner/"Fred Durks" in his story of alleged kidnapping, drugging
> and poisoning, allegedly by Scientologists, although no proof is
> offered for this allegation whatsoever, readers should consider some
> important and omitted information. There were a number of people who
> were very concerned about this story and did some research, including
> Mirele, henri and others.
Thanks for this Charlotte et al. Things are not always as they seem on the
Internet, ARS doubly so.
--
Alt.Religion.Scientology FAQ
http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/faq.htm
Android Cat
> <clk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1130615100.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> catchall target for anything someone does not want to take
>> responsibility for.
>
> True 'nuff.
>
> But if he really only did have a couple beers and then this happened,
> then something bad did happen.By somebody or some entity.
>
> John said what bothered him about this was that he's driving, gets
> out of his car, then walks up the stairs then blacks out. Says timing
> too good. If there were roofies or something in his drink, who's to
> say that he'd not crash his car, feel like crap before he even got
> home?
Point: He said his friend dropped him off, he wasn't driving.
> I said it occurred to me that maybe it wasn't roofies or something in
> the drink. Maybe nothing in the drink, only had 2 or 3 beers, then
> gets out of the car, walks up the steps, and someone comes in from
> behind with chloroform or something.He doesn't see 'em and blanks out
> that very small instance where it was happening.
>
> Who knows?
When someone is knocked unconscious by impact or drugs like roofies or
alcohol, it's common to lose memory of just before the incident. Our brains
have short term memory that gradually gets saved to long term memory and
unconsciousness interrupts that. (Not always lost forever, sometimes just
misfilled. The sight of the traffic cone at the foot of the bed can trigger
a cascade of memories of the party last night...)
It's possible that something that happened _later_ could have lost the
memories back to walking up the stairs. (A struggle at the apartment,
zapped/bashed/drugged...)
The amount of alcohol needed to produce a nine hour blackout should leave
other bio-markers that tests (GGT and MCV?) would find. Pretty much
everything will hinge on the blood test results on Monday. (Assuming that
they're looking for more than blood-alcohol level.)
--
Ron of that ilk.
Android Cat
tikk
<snipped below>
Thank you Charlotte. I just want to add that in addition to all this,
one other reason to be skeptical is the fact that he has, since his
emergence, run each of his scientology related sites as commercial
ventures. Who else does this? He has a 'donate here' link on each of
these sites. Why? Most have never considered Scientology criticism as a
for-profit venture, with possible exceptions made for Minton sycophantry
(if this were 5 years ago, this guy would be working to supplant Stacy).
But that sort of opportunism came after the fact, not before, as here.
He has related on OCMB his need to collect $600 for a special
unspecified scienTOMogy.com "project." From OCMB:
"D-Rad I get paid either way, it's all about how many times the "popup"
appears. Once I raise the $600 I need for scieTOMogy to further
humiliate this evil cult - The pop up ads will be a thing of the past,
hopefully just like how scientology will be too hopefully soon. "
[http://tinyurl.com/d2cj3]
And his current story sets the stage for a possible legal fund. He's
like Padgett on steroids.
In any event, his story is pretty incredible and not likely believed by
anyone in the media. An email was sent out by an OCMB visitor to 50+
news persons. When one showed up and voiced skepticism, he was derided
as a "soulless clam." Remember: credibility is not fungible - it doesn't
regenerate after you've spent it like a drunken sailor.
Also note that he is capitalizing on the newsworthiness of the AU
scientomogy.INFO site without making the distinction between it and his
.COM site. This is bad faith.
It also doesn't seem credible that Scientology would be so interested in
this guy in particular so soon. It usually takes awhile to get on
Scientology's radar, due largely to the inefficiencies and bureaucracies
inherent in Management Tech. There's nothing on any of his sites that
would cause Scientology to be any more upset at Fred Durks than the
hundred or so other owners of critical sites.
~ tikk
banchukita
>
> <snipped below>
>
> Thank you Charlotte. I just want to add that in addition to all this,
> one other reason to be skeptical is the fact that he has, since his
> emergence, run each of his scientology related sites as commercial
> ventures. Who else does this? He has a 'donate here' link on each of
> these sites. Why? Most have never considered Scientology criticism as a
> for-profit venture, with possible exceptions made for Minton sycophantry
> (if this were 5 years ago, this guy would be working to supplant Stacy).
> But that sort of opportunism came after the fact, not before, as here.
> He has related on OCMB his need to collect $600 for a special
> unspecified scienTOMogy.com "project." From OCMB:
>
> "D-Rad I get paid either way, it's all about how many times the "popup"
> appears. Once I raise the $600 I need for scieTOMogy to further
> humiliate this evil cult - The pop up ads will be a thing of the past,
> hopefully just like how scientology will be too hopefully soon. "
> [http://tinyurl.com/d2cj3]
*Commercial* venture? I thought he had like five LLCs, why would he
need to raise $600 with a popup if he was really interested in going
further.
Does Paul Horner own the ScienTOMogy site that's been in the news? Or
does he own the .info site? Or both?
>
> And his current story sets the stage for a possible legal fund. He's
> like Padgett on steroids.
>
This kind of thing seems like an attempt to dilute the real black ops
of varying stregths and effectiveness on people like Keith Henson, Tom
Klemesrud, Paulette Cooper, Gabe Cazares, Bob Penny, Dennis Erlich,
Arnie Lerma, Jeff Jacobsen, etc.
The wierd part is that if the pattern of behavior of Scn, Inc.
attempting to utterly ruin people was not already almost predictable,
this kind of thing would never occur to anyone as a profitmaking
venture.
> In any event, his story is pretty incredible and not likely believed by
> anyone in the media. An email was sent out by an OCMB visitor to 50+
> news persons. When one showed up and voiced skepticism, he was derided
> as a "soulless clam." Remember: credibility is not fungible - it doesn't
> regenerate after you've spent it like a drunken sailor.
LOL!
>
> Also note that he is capitalizing on the newsworthiness of the AU
> scientomogy.INFO site without making the distinction between it and his
> .COM site. This is bad faith.
>
My question above recurs: does he own both?
> It also doesn't seem credible that Scientology would be so interested in
> this guy in particular so soon. It usually takes awhile to get on
> Scientology's radar, due largely to the inefficiencies and bureaucracies
> inherent in Management Tech. There's nothing on any of his sites that
> would cause Scientology to be any more upset at Fred Durks than the
> hundred or so other owners of critical sites.
That was my first thought, too. TomCruise's doing a good enough job of
destroying his own cred, without having to take a website to task for
it. The risk and expense would not seem to be worth the effort.
The only other thing I can think of is that, if true, this op didn't
originate from Scn, inc. but from Tommy his own bad self. That would
align with his recent behavior, that seems to have him turning into his
own version of Elron, which has only gotten worse since poor Pat
Kingsley was put to pasture.
>
> ~ tikk
Dio, I love tikk!
-maggie, human being
banchukita
> I don't usually post here, so I'm going to stay on this thread at
> http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=15069 because I'm looking at
> Jailtime, fines, plus I already lost my job. I just thought maybe some
> ARS posters could offer some help.
Okay, please excuse our skepticism, but after all, that's what we do.
Please also get a lawyer, obtain the samples the cops took and get your
own tests done, hire a PI if you don't have time to do all the gumshoe
work of finding out if there were any witnesses or cameras covering any
and every step of this adventure, stop talking about it online, start
documenting stuff (how long have you known your friend you went
drinking with?), think outside the box (are there any new people in
your building? is anyone moving out?)
And *please* don't even *think* of asking for money unless what
happened to Keith starts happening to you.
-maggie, human being
Eldonbraun
Arizona site was established later by this guy, and has some links to
the NZ site. It is pretty much a clone of his other anti-Scientology
sites, with much of the same material.
henri
>tikk wrote:
>> <snipped below>
>> Thank you Charlotte. I just want to add that in addition to all this,
>> one other reason to be skeptical is the fact that he has, since his
>> emergence, run each of his scientology related sites as commercial
>> ventures. Who else does this? He has a 'donate here' link on each of
>> these sites. Why? Most have never considered Scientology criticism as a
>> for-profit venture, with possible exceptions made for Minton sycophantry
>> (if this were 5 years ago, this guy would be working to supplant Stacy).
>> But that sort of opportunism came after the fact, not before, as here.
>> He has related on OCMB his need to collect $600 for a special
>> unspecified scienTOMogy.com "project." From OCMB:
>> "D-Rad I get paid either way, it's all about how many times the "popup"
>> appears. Once I raise the $600 I need for scieTOMogy to further
>> humiliate this evil cult - The pop up ads will be a thing of the past,
>> hopefully just like how scientology will be too hopefully soon. "
>> [http://tinyurl.com/d2cj3]
>*Commercial* venture? I thought he had like five LLCs, why would he
>need to raise $600 with a popup if he was really interested in going
>further.
I don't know why he feels the need to raise $600 with a popup, but he
does. Perhaps if you take it in the context of his long history as a grifter
and a spammer, it makes more sense ;-)
If you will note the other ads on the website, they include an ad for
"Xenu" shotglasses at soberhookup.com. There is nothing "Xenu"
about these shotglasses. They are merely the same liquor paraphernalia
he was selling already. Needless to say, such paraphernalia hardly
enhances his reputation as a teetotaller.
This paraphernalia includes things like hollowed out liquor flasks
disguised as cell phones. Who but a hard core alcoholic would
need such gadgets? But yet, he expects us to believe that it
requires a huge OSA conspiracy to explain that he is the kind of
guy who spikes a .19 BAC at 10:30 in the morning after crashing
his car.
Puh-leez.
>Does Paul Horner own the ScienTOMogy site that's been in the news? Or
>does he own the .info site? Or both?
No, he does NOT own the scientomogy.info domain that has been in the
news. That belongs to Glen Stollery, a gentleman in New Zealand who,
in marked contrast to Horner, has no history as a serial domain pirate.
As with Horner's previous ventures such as microsoftsite.com (which
he linked to porn), amazonbooks.org, amazonbooks.net, amazononline.net
(which he linked to competitors of Amazon), and monsterjobs.com
(his current domainjacking escapade), he has simply hijacked someone
else's idea and turned it to his own profit.
[snips]
barb
> David Rice, Esq. wrote:
>
>
>>To not varnish the issue, he ought to also have his anus checked
>>for traces of alcohol or any device that might have introduced
>>alcohol. The problem with pouring alcohol down an unconscious
>>person's throat is that the person's throat tends to snap shut.
>>Alcohol introduced via the anus "works" also.
>
>
> David, I totally do NOT want to know *how* you learned this...
>
> Peace,
> Toby
>
Internet.
--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net
"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander
barb
It is tasteless, odorless. However, my question is this:
How long a drive is it from the Casino to Fred's apartment?
GHB is fairly quick acting from what I've heard.
Ball of Fluff
"Orkeltatte aka Ulf Brettstam" <orkel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130657622.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Wouldn't he have felt drowsy or something in his car? How could anyone be
sure that he wouldn't crash his car, that he'd make it partway up his steps
to then be intercepted then have alcohol stuck into his system then put in
the back of his car?
C
Ball of Fluff
"Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote in message
news:4364f52a$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
>>
>> If you drank from a glass at the casino , there is a possibility
>> someone has slipped GHB in your drink. You should request that the
>> blood tests taken should be analyzed for traces of GHB.
>
> Wouldn't he have felt drowsy or something in his car? How could anyone be
> sure that he wouldn't crash his car, that he'd make it partway up his
> steps to then be intercepted then have alcohol stuck into his system then
> put in the back of his car?
Oops, error. He was evidently dropped off home.
Still, timing awfully good. He could have blacked out in his friend's car
and ended up at the hospital. Instead, he doesn't feel anything til he gets
to his front steps...
C
barb
Okay, see, here's why I have trouble dealing with people who don't pay
attention. Claire, he said, and for petes sake it's right there above
your response, that his FRIEND drove him home. He wasn't driving. And
where does it mention stairs?
This sort of thing is exceptionally difficult to deal with. You do this
a lot. It isn't often you're considerate enough to include the post
you're misreading. It really bugs me.
Ball of Fluff
"barb" <bwa...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4364...@news2.lightlink.com...
> Okay, see, here's why I have trouble dealing with people who don't pay
> attention. Claire, he said, and for petes sake it's right there above your
> response, that his FRIEND drove him home. He wasn't driving. And where
> does it mention stairs?
>
> This sort of thing is exceptionally difficult to deal with. You do this a
> lot. It isn't often you're considerate enough to include the post you're
> misreading. It really bugs me.
>
As to the first, I've already corrected my error.
As to the second, he said "walking ~up~". Sounded like stairs.
As to it bugging you, well,that's your problem. To err is human, to forgive
is divine.
Deal with it. I already got the correction from another contributor who did
not see fit to editorialize with useless commentary.
C
Ball of Fluff
>misreading. It really bugs me.
Tell that to those who have a problem with my snipping too little and
including way too much in posts.
Can't please all of you all the time. Looks like today ain't your day.
Tomorrow not looking so good, either.
;->
C
Zinj
> clk...@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>
> ~ tikk
Once again the Group Dynamix on ARS become more interesting than the
subject in question.
Anybody still mirroring offlines.org?
Zinj
--
Villains! I say to you now! Knock off all that Evil!
- The Tick
Ball of Fluff
?
>
> Oops, error. He was evidently dropped off home.
My post with the above comment precedes Barb's helpful observations.
See, I'm not the only one who's not observant at times.It happens.
C
Michael Greenberg
he's made some serious mistakes.
I've gotten to know him in the last couple moonths and I just hope he
stops posting like a defient kid. He's posted his blog earlier.
I'm beginning to think this is more a case of grand denial rather than
blatant dishonesty
http://www.myspace.com/pimppaul69
Michael Greenberg
a...@123.net
Tom Klemesrud <tom...@netscape.delete.net> wrote:
> a...@123.net wrote:
>
> > In article <43639fb1$1...@news2.lightlink.com>,
> > "Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Mirele" <mir...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:1130601132....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >>>I'd like to be sympathetic to this, really I would. But I can't. The
> >>>story's nothing more than a stinking, steaming pile. And the actions of
> >>>drunk drivers have real-world consequences. A very good friend of mine
> >>>nearly died because of the actions of a rush hour drunk some years
> >>>back.
> >>
> >>But, Mirele, he's saying he only had a couple drinks. Not a fifth of
> >>liquor.
> >>
> >>We know he's been harassed over his 'site for a while, by CofS. And now his
> >>apartment was gone through and tossed.
> >>
> >>It sounds to me like he was slipped some roofies than some booze poured
> >>down
> >>his throat.
> >>
> >>And it sounds like it could be CofS.
> >>
> >>
> >>>Since I live and drive in Mesa, AZ, I'd like to thank the Mesa Police
> >>>Department for getting a .19 BAC off the streets of my city.
> >>>
> >>>Paul Horner may be a so-called "critic", but that doesn't mean he's
> >>>exempt from the law.
> >>>
> >>
> >>But he's saying he didn't have a fifth of liquor, which is what it would
> >>have taken- that or an equivalent- to make his alcohol level rise to that
> >>level.
> >
> >
> >
> > rule of thumb for alcohol intake..... .05 rise per drink per hour for
> > 150 lb person. so .19 is four beers in an hour not a fifth
>
> My local sheriff disputes your figures. He says you can drive three
> beers in an hour and still be below .08.
>
> Give a sitation when you bring figures like this...and not some FOP site.
>
Yes
http://www.longandfoster.com/About_us/Agent_Profile.aspx?agtNumber=37919
apparently the figure in my head was a maximum absorbsion on an empty
stomach for a 150 lb woman.
as a rule of thumb I guess its a bit conservative.
the site above shows me to be off by about half.
persoanlly 3 beers is 3 more than I feel confortable driving on.
> >
> > a guy drinking four beers in an hour is not a feat of ledergemain
> >
> > he said he had two....
> >
> > but look at his site soberhookup.com and make your own judgement about
> > his involvement with alcohol....
> >
> >>Don't you want to exclude set ups in your thesis? I do.
> >>
> >>C
pt...@webtv.net
tikk wrote:
Scott ways in for the Buttersquash Ranch conspiracy theorists. Should
be interesting now.
> clk...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Before lending uncritical support, or, especially, donating money to
> > Paul Horner/"Fred Durks" in his story of alleged kidnapping, drugging
> > and poisoning, allegedly by Scientologists, although no proof is
> > offered for this allegation whatsoever, readers should consider some
> > important and omitted information. There were a number of people who
> > were very concerned about this story and did some research, including
> > Mirele, henri and others.
You mean Deana Holmes and Rob Clark?
Kinda like when Rob Clark calls $cienos "stupid cult morons?" Either
case, sensitivity totally lacking.
Edification from whom? Scott the tikk, on a mixture of sodium clorate
and buttersquash juice? The above snipes sounds way too much like
Diane-etics.
>
> In any event, his story is pretty incredible and not likely believed by
> anyone in the media. An email was sent out by an OCMB visitor to 50+
> news persons. When one showed up and voiced skepticism, he was derided
> as a "soulless clam." Remember: credibility is not fungible - it doesn't
> regenerate after you've spent it like a drunken sailor.
>
> Also note that he is capitalizing on the newsworthiness of the AU
> scientomogy.INFO site without making the distinction between it and his
> .COM site. This is bad faith.
>
> It also doesn't seem credible that Scientology would be so interested in
> this guy in particular so soon. It usually takes awhile to get on
> Scientology's radar, due largely to the inefficiencies and bureaucracies
> inherent in Management Tech. There's nothing on any of his sites that
> would cause Scientology to be any more upset at Fred Durks than the
It's Paul Horner IRL, not Fred Durks.
> hundred or so other owners of critical sites.
>
> ~ tikk (Scott)
I think this story from Arizona deserves more time to unfold. More
forensics are needed for proper judgement. At this stage, anyone could
jump rashly on either side of the coin.
Tom
----------------
www.fairgamed.org
Ball of Fluff
"Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote in message
>
> "barb" <bwa...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:4364...@news2.lightlink.com...
>
>> Okay, see, here's why I have trouble dealing with people who don't pay
>> attention. Claire, he said, and for petes sake it's right there above
>> your response, that his FRIEND drove him home. He wasn't driving. And
>> where does it mention stairs?
>>
>> This sort of thing is exceptionally difficult to deal with. You do this a
>> lot. It isn't often you're considerate enough to include the post you're
>> misreading. It really bugs me.
>>
>
> As to the first, I've already corrected my error.
>
> As to the second, he said "walking ~up~". Sounded like stairs.
>
"I was drugged or something. I didn't make it to the steps of my apartment
after my friend dropped me off."
Here's something Fred Durks says on OCMB.
Oh look. Steps.
C
Fred Durks
more on this. My lawyer is getting video of the apartment that night
and the next morning in front of my work. The casino is 10 minutes
from my house. I had 2-3 (12oz) beers and that's it. I awoke 9 hours
later completely out of my mind and on some kind of tranquilizer. I
could barely talk. The witness says they saw me walking around my car,
but didn't actually see me driving it. And the other thing I'm now
remembering- 1 or 2 cops didn't show up at first. The whole Mesa
police force arrived at once. This was planned.
I love the bashers on ARS and Clambake calling me a con man and other
names and bringing up stories about me that have nothing to do with
scientology. I have nothing to gain from this. I know I was drugged
and poisoned with alchohol. By who? I can't prove that. I do know
for a fact that a scientologist P.I. was calling my work just weeks
before this trying to get me fired.
So in conclusion and fact:
You can't drink 2-3 (12oz) beers and 9 hours later blow a .19
Scientologists- say what you want. Call me names. I do legitimate
Internet work for a living. Do what you want to me. I'm stronger
than you are. I have a clear thinking mind. I will keep speaking out
against you and won't stop until scientology ceased to exist.
mail.com
<getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote:
> "Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> wrote in message
> news:4364...@news2.lightlink.com...
> > As to the first, I've already corrected my error.
> > As to the second, he said "walking ~up~". Sounded like stairs.
> "I was drugged or something. I didn't make it to the steps of my apartment
> after my friend dropped me off."
>
> Here's something Fred Durks says on OCMB.
> Oh look. Steps.
My first and second reading left me with the impression of stairs
to his appartment.
I wish he had said how long he has known his "friend."
> C
---
http://lastliberal.org / I support privatization of religion.
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Waiter, can you help? This man has a soup in his fly." -- Mike Hammer
pt...@webtv.net
need for simpatico for Scientologists like Claire and myself,"
comes....
Michael Greenberg wrote:
> Paul is guilty of one thing for sure and that is being young. I think
> he's made some serious mistakes.
> I've gotten to know him in the last couple moonths and I
How have you gotten to know him? Met with him in person? Talked with
him on the phone? Talked with his lawyers?
Be specific.
>just hope he
> stops posting like a defient kid.
How woud you discribe your posts on Operation Clambake? Like a civil
and compliant adult?
> I'm beginning to think this is more a case of grand denial rather than
> blatant dishonesty
>
>
> http://www.myspace.com/pimppaul69
>
>
> Michael Greenberg (OCMB's official OSA-like handler)
Tom
-------------------
www.lisamcpherson.org
Larry T.
news:1130694104....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
A drunk or high person is one of the easiest kind of people in the world to
fair game. It requires practically no LRH training because most people do
not want drunk or high people around their property at the wee hours of the
morning anyway.
For goodness sakes, where is some people's common sense these days?
--
Larry
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoqz2m/scientology/
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
Michael, could you please specify, what the serious mistakes have been,
which Fred Durks made? I did not follow his posting-history completely
only randomly, here as well as on OCMB, so maybe I missed something.
What I have catched was that he installed some homepages with some pics
from Tom Cruise and his couch-jumping and things like that. Or do you
mean, his alleged or admitted drug-use?
.Lily.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
For further enlightenment, please read some of Truth Seeker's articles:
:: The Hitchhiker's Guide Through A.R.S. - Complete List Of Truth
Seeker's Articles About This Newsgroup ::
or try this link: http://tinyurl.com/a7vth
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
henri
wrote:
>I love the bashers on ARS and Clambake calling me a con man and other
>names and bringing up stories about me that have nothing to do with
>scientology. I have nothing to gain from this.
Nothing to gain except the money from your poker affiliate ads, nothing to
gain but the $600 for popups for a "secret plan," nothing to gain but the
donations you were already collecting even before this occurred, the
shotglasses you have repackaged and are now selling as "Xenu"
shotglasses, etc.
So basically, nothing to gain but money, right?
>I know I was drugged and poisoned with alchohol.
I know that, too. It's pretty obvious this is a rather common
occurrence for you.
>By who? I can't prove that. I do know
>for a fact that a scientologist P.I. was calling my work just weeks
>before this trying to get me fired.
>So in conclusion and fact:
>You can't drink 2-3 (12oz) beers and 9 hours later blow a .19
Nope, you can't. But you can drink a fifth of something and do that.
And I submit it is far more likely you did do just that and then crashed
your car at 10:30 a.m. and then came up with this bullshit story. The
idea Scientologists had to be involved with getting you drunk is well
over the border of the Land of Bullshit.
You are arrested after a crash at 10:30 a.m. and you claim you weren't
driving. You claim it's mysterious that police then showed up after a
crash apparently in broad daylight in public. If it happened previously,
and you hadn't noticed, it seems remarkably convenient they showed
up just when you happened to be wake up just in time to be wandering
around in a drunken stupor at the scene.
You do, after all, describe your "occupation" as "drinking" on your
own blogger profile: http://www.blogger.com/profile/6547260
Unshockingly, there is a picture of you drinking and making retarded
"gang signs." That seems to be about your style.
---
Paul Horner
* Age: 26
* Gender: male
* Astrological Sign: Scorpio
* Zodiac Year: Horse
* Industry: Arts
* Occupation: Internet/design/marketing/drinking
* Location: Mesa : Arizona : United States
Blogs
Blog Name Team Members
View this Blog Soberhookup.com-... Bomb Shot Glasses, Sneak-a-Flasks, and Suck
and Blows
>Scientologists- say what you want. Call me names. I do legitimate
>Internet work for a living. Do what you want to me. I'm stronger
>than you are. I have a clear thinking mind. I will keep speaking out
>against you and won't stop until scientology ceased to exist.
I have looked at some of your "legitimate Internet work." It looks
dodgy at best and borders on spamming at the worst. Registering
microsoftsite.com and linking it to porn sites, amazononline.net
(which wound you up in a losing lawsuit), and other bogus exploits
certainly has not equipped you as a credible "critic" of Scientology.
It certainly has qualified you to fleece the easy marks on OCMB, though.
Anyway, let's get back to that "legitimate Internet work."
Here's a message board adorned with your peculiar brand of decoration:
Unsurprisingly, on another "google" ripoff domain name, you posted a number
of spam messages.
---
WOW- THE BEST MORTGAGE SITE EVER IS www.NetSkrill.com
From: WOW- THE BEST MORTGAGE SITE EVER IS www.NetSkrill.com
Date: 19 Jul 2005
Time: 21:06:55 -0400
Remote Name: 69.10.96.66
Comments
WOW- THE BEST MORTGAGE SITE EVER IS www.NetSkrill.com
---
Soberhookup.com has shot glasses with Built in Chasers. Girls that don't do
shots DO shots with these shot glasses. Check it-
From: wow FREE advertising!!!!
Date: 18 Jan 2005
Time: 19:12:41 -0500
Remote Name: 67.108.4.166
Comments
Soberhookup.com has shot glasses with Built in Chasers. Girls that don't do
shots DO shots with these shot glasses. Check it-
---
http://forum.brokeroutpost.com/loans/forum/2/9140.htm
http://forum.brokeroutpost.com/loans/forum/2/566.htm
Selling "leads" for mortgage refinancing. That's quite a business empire,
hardcore alcoholic paraphernalia, porn, and mortgage refinancing spam.
Color me unimpressed.
Mirele
If we're talking the Casino Arizona at 101 and McKellips, maybe 10-20
minutes. It would depend on the time of day and how he hits the lights,
whether he would go from the 101 to the 202 to Alma School Rd. or down
the 101 to Broadway to Alma School, or if he drove down McKellips to
Alma School.
This of course assumes he is living on Alma School Rd. in Mesa, as some
evidence indicates. It also assumes that we're talking about this
particular Casino Arizona, as there's another one at Indian Bend, or if
it's another casino (Fort McDowell or any of the other Indian casinos
in the greater Phoenix area). If he's living in Laveen (which is on the
west side of Phoenix), we're talking at least 45 minutes.
Deana Holmes
mir...@sonic.net
Eldonbraun
> I was drugged or something. I didn't make it to the steps of my
> apartment after my friend dropped me off. My memory is coming back
> more on this. My lawyer is getting video of the apartment that night
> and the next morning in front of my work. The casino is 10 minutes
> from my house. I had 2-3 (12oz) beers and that's it. I awoke 9 hours
> later completely out of my mind and on some kind of tranquilizer. I
> could barely talk.
need to have that analyzed as well to see what was there besides
alcohol.
The witness says they saw me walking around my car,
> but didn't actually see me driving it. And the other thing I'm now
> remembering- 1 or 2 cops didn't show up at first. The whole Mesa
> police force arrived at once. This was planned.
why so many showed up.
Tom Klemesrud
I don't understand? The above sitation seems to be very much a FOP
site, as it seems to be DM's brother pitching real estate in Virginia.
Where did you get the alcohol burn rate from this site?
barb
Get a new writer...I already have that witticism on a t-shirt.
Mirele
laid it out flat. You scam whenever you can, and when you can't, you're
a drunk. Now you're trying to scam people here and on OCMB. You think
you've found a bunch of easy marks. Hopefully people are smarter than
that.
Oh, and by the way, the entire Mesa PD did not show up at your place.
Mesa has 800 officers on the police force, and it's not likely all of
them would show up to subdue a drunk stumbling around without it making
the news.
As for your lawyer, I hope you have got someone who is going to tell
you the truth about your DUI, not some Phillips and Associates fellow
that is going to collect your money and wave as you're sent off to the
slammer. (N.B. Phillips and Associates are a group of lawyers in Phx
who have lots and lots of TV ads about how they get people off--so much
so that the state's taking to parodying them in a serious ad about what
happens to people who get DUIs.)
So, since I live in your area, how about telling us where your home is,
and where your work is. At that point, we'll have more information on
how long it took you to get there from the casino. Start laying some
credible information out.
Deana M. Holmes
mir...@sonic.net
Mesa, AZ
barb
So, I hadn't read the entire thread. I responded to the post before this
one. You should have been able to figure that out without my help.
Tom Klemesrud
someone's character, again.
Does Paul remind you of yourself? I remember the time you lied to me on
the phone and told me you didn't mail a bomb threat to the cult.
Paul has not been proven to be a liar...and the other is legitimate
internet business using "affiliate" relationships such as
https://affiliates.befree.com/Affiliates/index.jsp
that amazone itself uses.
Trying to cash in on the Jimmy Buffett phenomenon with novel shot
glasses and flasks is impressive marketing.
Paul's character seems to be several notches up from you point of view.
But I know you have to work and make money too on the internet, and
that's what your doing.
This looks more like a setup by the hour.
Warrior
says...
Excerpt from the Declaration of Anne Rosenblum, webbed at
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/krasel/aff_ar.html:
=== begin excerpt ===
Around January of February, 1979, I decided to do something about
Scientology. I heard Senator Dole was doing an investigation on cults
I wrote him a letter about Scientology, LRH and the RPF. I didn't sign
my name, but I suppose it is possible to ascertain who I was by what
I wrote. Anyway, shortly afterwards I began to receive threatening
phone calls. In one call the caller said: "You like your parents don't
you?" Then he laughed and hung up.
The next incident that happened is very vague and uncertain to me.
Following one of these threatening phone calls, I went to a
restaurant/lounge where my brother and friends usually meet, across
from my brother's home. I remember ordering a "Tequila Sunrise" while
waiting for my brother. I spoke to a man I didn't know who approached
me and started a conversation. He left after about ten minutes. I left
shortly after that feeling a little strange, the next thing I remember is
waking up in a psychiatric ward. My front teeth were knocked out.
Apparently, I lost my balance and fell on my face. The doctor told me
that the laboratory found amphetamines, thorazine and other drugs in
my blood.
I do not take drugs, nor do I have access to them. Aspirin is about the
strongest medication I take. I had no knowledge or memory of having
taken these drugs. I have little memory of the lapse of time between
being in the lounge and ending up in the psychiatric ward. I am trying
to piece the days together prior to my hospitalization.
I don't know what happened to me. I received a call at work about a
week after being discharged from the hospital. The caller said: "Next
time you won't be so lucky."
=== end excerpt ===
Read Anne's declaration in its entirety at
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/krasel/aff_ar.html
[posted & mailed]
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
"Scientology: it's about deception."
http://warrior.xenu.ca
Eldonbraun
> Look, Paul (I can call you Paul, right?), you are a con artist. henri's
> laid it out flat. You scam whenever you can, and when you can't, you're
> a drunk. Now you're trying to scam people here and on OCMB. You think
> you've found a bunch of easy marks. Hopefully people are smarter than
> that.
Here you go again with your imperious, presumptious shrieking:
"Show me the evidence!"
"Show me the evidence!"
"Show me the evidence!"
"I'm not impressed!"
This sounds reminiscent of the way you fucked up Graham Berry several
years ago with your big mouth-- you obese, stupid cow. Nobody is trying
to impress you but yourself anyway.
Why don't you go back to law school for a few years and shut up in the
meantime? Paul/Fred may or may not be a scam artist. He is certainly
opportunistic, but that's not illegal. And you are certainly not a
sitting judge, no matter how you may fantasize and pontificate.
Of the two potential personality problems in evidence, I would say his
is the less serious. Just my lay opinion.