Scientology: Logic and discussion
Ken Harthun
This book is a collection of quotations from his works.
Published by Bridge Publications, Inc., 4751 Fountain Ave., Los Angeles, CA
90029
"Logic concerns obtaining answers.
And answers depend on *data*.
Unless you can test and establish the truth and value
of the data being used, one cannot attain right
answers no matter what Aristotle may have said
or what IBM may have built." L.Ron Hubbard
Discussions of what Scientology is all about without taking
a real look at the *data*, are based only on someone's
opinion. Let's discuss this datum a bit, shall we?
--
Ken Harthun
606-387-8170
Ron Newman
Ken Harthun <omc...@pipeline.com> wrote:
>"Logic concerns obtaining answers.
>And answers depend on *data*.
>Unless you can test and establish the truth and value
>of the data being used, one cannot attain right
>answers no matter what Aristotle may have said
>or what IBM may have built." L.Ron Hubbard
>Discussions of what Scientology is all about without taking
>a real look at the *data*, are based only on someone's
>opinion. Let's discuss this datum a bit, shall we?
I agree.
Let's start by testing and establishing the truth of the
following datum, which representatives of the Church periodically
state:
"The Church of Scientology has taught 1.5 million South African
children how to read."
If you have any evidence for or against the truth of
this datum, please post a follow-up to this thread.
--
Ron Newman MIT Media Laboratory
rne...@media.mit.edu
Kim Baker
> Let's start by testing and establishing the truth of the
> following datum, which representatives of the Church periodically
> state:
>
> "The Church of Scientology has taught 1.5 million South African
> children how to read."
Martin added:
The population of South Africa was 23.7 million in 1980; are there even
that many illiterate school-age children, (let's say between six and
twelve) in South Africa? I think not. I find it hard to believe that
something approaching 100% of South Africa's children are illiterate!
Kim:
And this is quite a point. They said they had "educated"
the kids. Careful of the distinction here - we don't want
to be guilty of the same thing.
My research has uncovered (and I am confident of these facts):
- Education Alive is the only Church-linked organisation in
SA to do any "educating."
- Therefore when the Church says they have educated the kids,
they mean Education Alive has. Which means they confirm that
Education Alive is a branch of the Church of Scientology.
- Education Alive has 3 branches - in Johannesburg, Cape Town
and Durban. All are franchised. They teach the Basic Study
Course, and a Grammar course. That is all that they teach.
- Both of these courses presume literacy, so they can only
teach them to children who can already read.
- The courses are NOT delivered free of charge. They have to be
paid for. I am still trying to establish how much the courses
cost, and who pays for them.
- I am STILL trying to get statistics, which will be available
in their Annual Reports, on how many children have been
taught these courses.
- The Church claimed they had "educated" these children.
Perhaps they should clarify exactly what they mean by
"educated". If they had stated they had taught courses
on STUDY TECHNIQUES, I would have no problem with that.
Kim Baker
Cape Town, South Africa E-Mail: K...@uctlib.uct.ac.za
______________________________________________________________________
"Thoughtcrime is a dreadful thing, old man. It's insiduous. It can get
hold of you without you even knowing it."
- From "Nineteen-eighty-four", George Orwell
Martin G. V. Hunt
> "Logic concerns obtaining answers.
> And answers depend on *data*.
> Unless you can test and establish the truth and value
> of the data being used, one cannot attain right
> answers no matter what Aristotle may have said
> or what IBM may have built." L.Ron Hubbard
Good plan!
> Discussions of what Scientology is all about without taking
> a real look at the *data*, are based only on someone's
> opinion. Let's discuss this datum a bit, shall we?
Let's. Please.
<sigh>
Post the double-blind, peer-reviewed, scientific, duplicated,
journal-published studies that incontrovertibly prove that Scientology
works.
Ho, hum.
<tap, tap, tap>
ttyl,
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Martin Hunt, av...@freenet.carleton.ca
Martin G. V. Hunt
> following datum, which representatives of the Church periodically
> state:
>
> "The Church of Scientology has taught 1.5 million South African
> children how to read."
The population of South Africa was 23.7 million in 1980; are there even
that many illiterate school-age children, (let's say between six and
twelve) in South Africa? I think not. I find it hard to believe that
something approaching 100% of South Africa's children are illiterate!
Martin G. V. Hunt
> In a previous posting, Ron Newman (rne...@media.mit.edu) writes:
>> Let's start by testing and establishing the truth of the
>> following datum, which representatives of the Church periodically
>> state:
>>
>> "The Church of Scientology has taught 1.5 million South African
>> children how to read."
>
> Martin added:
> The population of South Africa was 23.7 million in 1980; are there even
> that many illiterate school-age children, (let's say between six and
> twelve) in South Africa? I think not. I find it hard to believe that
> something approaching 100% of South Africa's children are illiterate!
>
> Kim:
> And this is quite a point. They said they had "educated"
> the kids. Careful of the distinction here - we don't want
> to be guilty of the same thing.
Fair enough. To teach that many children in a time frame of five
years, let's say, would require 300,000 children a year to be
instructed. Presuming the classes lasted six months, (to get
any real education in), this would require 150,000 children in class.
Now this would require 3,000 classrooms, with 50 children in each.
(very big classrooms!) Since Education Alive has three branches,
each branch must have 1,000 classrooms.
Now if each classroom was a 30 by 30 foot room, this would mean
approximately a million square feet of instructional plus
administrative floorspace.
Kim, are the three branches of Education Alive each about a
million square feet in size? And do they have 1,000 busses
for the children parked outside? Or does everyone drive to
these massive educational megaplexes...do they have a parking
lot the size of Disneyland?
> - Education Alive is the only Church-linked organisation in
> SA to do any "educating."
>
> - Education Alive has 3 branches - in Johannesburg, Cape Town
> and Durban. All are franchised. They teach the Basic Study
> Course, and a Grammar course. That is all that they teach.
ttyl,