My name is Grace Aaron. My husband and I were declared suppressive in
the spring of 2000. Our son, Zachary, was pressured to disconnect from
his family including me, Ken and his brother, Johnny.
The following link shows a video I produced of an interview of Dave
Sweetland, another person who is a victim of the Scientology policy of
disconnection. Take a look at it if you are interested and send me any
feedback.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4128809453616957961
I have also produced 3 other programs on this topic and will post links
to them as soon as they are webcast.
Grace Aaron
It was really exciting to see you "in person" so to speak and you are a very
intelligent speaker.
David Sweetland has been here to the newsgroup before and thank you for the
"R" on both of you and disconnection {i.e. religious shunning}.
The video is great.
--
http://mysite.verizon.net/toomajan
Larry
A) Why did you become involved with SCN in he first place?
B) Post your SP declares and let us see us for ourselves what's going
on.
~~~~
"I thought I was an alien myself. So I am in fact a space alien invader
disguised as psychiatrist plotting and conspiring all day long." --
Senior psychiatrist Ulf Brettstam
"ECT (Electro Convulsive Therapy), one of the best validated medical
treatment in the history of medicine." -- Senior psychiatrist Ulf
Brettstam
And now dig this: http://www.ect.org/effects.shtml
~~~~
Victoria ("Tory" "Magoo") Christman: "F*ck you!"
(She was found in contempt of court for refusing to give up her
harassment.) She disconnected from husband and son. Just ran out of
them.
Grace, thank you for sharing your video with us. The video shows some
interesting points of view and comes from a perspective that is truly
enlightening, especially to those of us that have never been personally
involved with the Church of Scientology.
It is plain to see the pain and suffering that both Dave and you have
gone through because of the terrible actions of the criminal cult of
Scientology. I'm sorry that you must undergo such trials and
tribulations.
The good news is: the cult is finally being exposed as a global scam.
Many long time members are finally leaving and telling their stories.
Hopefully, your loved ones will soon return to you and you can reunite
as a family once again.
Thanks again for sharing your story.
--
AJ Simkatu
Dear Uncle,
Post your name, address and phone # here on ARS and I'll give you a
call and maybe then send you a copy of my SP declare. Fair enough?
Grace
Of course the Scientologist operative using an offensive handle foisted from
Harriet Beecher Stowe, who he's never read, attempts to present himself as a
group of people, while at the same time trying to find out Who Grace Is, so
to perform Black Dianetics operations on them.
A look at the posts of "Uncle Tom's Manor" (who used to just be "Uncle Tom")
will show you that this operative is just that. Note that in this thread
the operative has snipped your links to video about disconnection policy.
Why is the operative so afraid of this being shown?
Here it is again.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4128809453616957961
--
http://BuffaloScientologyInfo.com - http://www.xenu.net
http://PerkinsTragedy.org - http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
* "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All
mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
That's just Barbara Schwarz, Grace, one of the resident kooks, albeit,
'Church' sponsored.
Sometimes she likes to hide, even though she claims to always sign her
posts.
The video was interesting, and hopefully it gets around, although I
think it's a little understated as to the evils of Scientology's
'disconnection policy'.
Have their been any further developments since 2003? Has your POV
changed any?
Thanks for having gone public with what you have.
Zinj
--
Scientology: The Science of Believing Anything You Like
This is the 'Tech' This is the Session.
>
> Grace wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> My name is Grace Aaron. My husband and I were declared suppressive in
>> the spring of 2000.
>
> A) Why did you become involved with SCN in he first place?
> B) Post your SP declares and let us see us for ourselves what's going
> on.
>
Post your name Mr. -8.0.
--
"If I saw a man beating a tied up horse, I could
not prove it was wrong, but I'd know it was wrong."
- Mark Twain
Cheerful Charlie
>Uncle Tom's manor wrote:
>> Grace wrote:
>> > Dear All,
>> > My name is Grace Aaron. My husband and I were declared suppressive in
>> > the spring of 2000.
>> A) Why did you become involved with SCN in he first place?
>> B) Post your SP declares and let us see us for ourselves what's going on.
Good frocking grief. The Scientology kooks never give up.
>Dear Uncle,
>Post your name, address and phone # here on ARS and I'll give you a
>call and maybe then send you a copy of my SP declare. Fair enough?
Good idea. It's a mistake to provide information to Scientology.
---
"I did not have ass-fucking relations with Jack Abramoff" - George W. Bush
Dear Norle,
Well, part of what you say is true. But OSA knows who I am!!! I said
in the post that my name is Grace Aaron and that I was declared in
2000!!! I doubt that their filing system is so bad that they can't
figure out who or where I am.
I do agree that the literacy level of many of the OSA people who post
here is rather low. Many are European or from Latin America, I think.
Their English is strange. Barbara Schwarz, for example, who we know is
German, writes with a lot of foreign idiosyncracies. Also, I think
that many are very young. But that's just conjecture on my part. I
hate to put them down too heavily, though, as I know that most will
eventually figure things out and leave the Church of Scientology.
Also, they are doing me a service if they keep the thread I post things
on alive.
In regard to OSA in general, in my opinion, their bark is often worse
than their bite.
Thank you. I think Scientology is a complex and intricate phenomenon.
I first became involved in 1970 and have experienced many different,
and often contradictory, elements of the subject.
>
> It is plain to see the pain and suffering that both Dave and you have
> gone through because of the terrible actions of the criminal cult of
> Scientology. I'm sorry that you must undergo such trials and
> tribulations.
Me, too. I'm sorry for myself but also for others.
>
> The good news is: the cult is finally being exposed as a global scam.
> Many long time members are finally leaving and telling their stories.
> Hopefully, your loved ones will soon return to you and you can reunite
> as a family once again.
Yes, I hope every day to be reconnected with my son, Zack.
>
> Thanks again for sharing your story.
You're welcome. I'll be posting some more videos soon.
>
> --
> AJ Simkatu
Grace,
Thanks for taking the time and effort to produce this video. I hope
many see it.
iTal
Agreed - but that would only be true for the uninitiated amongst us, so far
as Black Dianetics is concerned. Sometimes I feel the need to annotate such
bland attacks for the benefit of new readers to this newsgroup, who may not
initially recognize such tactics of attempted intimidation. Welcome
nonetheless.
Don't give her your address and phone number, Uncle Tom. And never post
it. Grace wants you to be stalked. She is not honest, that will be one
reason why she was declared. She posted "maybe", she wants you to give
up your privacy and become fair game for the Scientology haters.
Many anti-religious extremists are stalkers. You should read what Keith
Henson did to Scientologist and poster AI and somebody who he suspected
being AI.
Grace posts all kinds of crap about SCN, and that is why she should
provide these data not just to you but to anybody, not in private but
right here.
You don't have to post your address and phone number, just post your SP
declare, you coward.
Barbara Schwarz
L. Ron Hubbard: "HONEST PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS, TOO."
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
(I am concerned about Dave Touretzky's activities.)
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
(About Valerie Emanuel, number one "Eru Avatar"-suspect, who says she
is mentally ill. Eru stalks, defames and abuses me.)
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/emanuelv1.html
Psychiatric troll olihilyu @ yahoo.com posting from Brockton and
Rowland Massachussetts forges, harasses, defames and stalks me also
with e-mail address BarbSchwarz @yahoo.com and Barbara.Schwarz @
yahoo.com. Scott Goehring is a known forger. Read this:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/goehrings1.html
Other interesting websites:
http://www.cchr.org
http://67.154.46.4/ Free Speech Store
http://www.amatterofjustice.org/
> Grace wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > My name is Grace Aaron. My husband and I were declared suppressive in
> > the spring of 2000. Our son, Zachary, was pressured to disconnect from
> >
> > his family including me, Ken and his brother, Johnny.
> >
> >
> > The following link shows a video I produced of an interview of Dave
> > Sweetland, another person who is a victim of the Scientology policy of
> > disconnection. Take a look at it if you are interested and send me any
> >
> > feedback.
> >
> >
> > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4128809453616957961
>
> Grace, thank you for sharing your video with us. The video shows some
> interesting points of view and comes from a perspective that is truly
> enlightening, especially to those of us that have never been personally
> involved with the Church of Scientology.
Right, Korey Jerome Kruse, you have no clue about Scientology. You fall
for each liar and former infiltrator.
I think Uncle Tom asked two good questions: What was Grace's motivation
to join the C of S and what does the SP declares say. If she can't do
that, she can't be taken seriously and has a lot to hide.
You don't have to post your address and phone number, Grace, just post
your SP and explain why you joined the C of S. That is really not asked
too much. I want to see if why Zach disconnected.
Once again, I had to suffer a lot under a suppressive family member
when disconnection was NOT applied. Any person of any religion or
non-religion disconnects from somebody who is abusive. Why on earth, or
better, why in hell should Scientologists not have the same right?
Ida Camburn
Barbara, what does "schrieb" mean?
> Barbara Schwarz wrote:
> > Grace schrieb:
>
> Barbara, what does "schrieb" mean?
Oh, I have my IE sometimes on a German program but I don't tell you
why. It means: "Gracey is a terrible SP."
Alright, seriously, it means nothing but "Grace wrote":
So, what about your SP declare? Is it so horrible that you can't post
it? Did you kill somebody?
--
Barbara Schwarz
L. Ron Hubbard: "THE CRIMINAL ACCUSES OTHERS OF THINGS WHICH HE HIMSELF
IS DOING. THE CRIMINAL MIND RELENTLESSLY SEEKS TO DESTROY ANYONE IT
IMAGINES MIGHT EXPOSE IT. THE CRIMINAL ONLY SEES OTHERS AS HE HIMSELF
IS."
L. Ron Hubbard: "HONEST PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS, TOO."
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
(I am concerned about Dave Touretzky's activities.)
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
Ah! You made a little joke! Very funny!
>
> Alright, seriously, it means nothing but "Grace wrote":
>
> So, what about your SP declare? Is it so horrible that you can't post
> it? Did you kill somebody?
>
No, it's not that horrible. But, Barbara, why don't you just ask your
friends in OSA for a copy? They have it, I'm sure.
When I get around to it I'll post it. I just haven't had time.
> --
> Barbara Schwarz
And, Barbara, there have been lots of people unjustly declared
suppressive. Why would you assume that my SP declare was fair?
You know, there is a joke about the Scientology justice system. In the
United States people are considered innocent until proven guilty,
whereas in Scientology they're considered guilty until proven guilty
(which they invariably are 'proven').
Kim P
Typical Schwarz post - demanding information as if she is entitled to it
and libeling the person from whom she is demanding information at the
same time. A waste of time trying to communicate with her as she will
only accuse you of stalking and defaming her when she does not get what
she feels entitled to.
Just ignore the woman - answering her is hardly worth the effort.
Kim P
Writes..
Barbara is our newsgroup loonie.
You may want to ignore her.
She is a waste of time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Schwarz
Barbara Schwarz, née Bretschneider, is a German expatriate now living in
Salt Lake City, Utah. She was the president of the German branch of the
Church of Scientology from August 3, 1983 until July 10, 1984. [1]
Schwarz is no longer active in the Church of Scientology (she states
that she was "kicked out" in 1984 [2]), but she still considers herself
a Scientologist, if no longer officially a member of the Church, and
despite having filed frivolous lawsuits against the church.
Schwarz is principally known as the current holder of the record for most
requests filed by a single individual under the Freedom of Information
Act. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, Schwarz has submitted thousands
of FOIA requests to the United States Government and its various federal
agencies. There are extensive records at each agency documenting these
requests, which list thousands of hours and thousands of dollars spent
processing these requests. The U.S. Department of Defense has finally
made a ruling barring Schwarz from filing any further FOIA requests
until she pays for her prior requests. (Schwarz often claims indigency
to get fee waivers.)
Many of these FOIA requests attempt to substantiate her claims that she
is the granddaughter of President Dwight D. Eisenhower and the daughter
of Church of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, that she lived in a
secret submarine base under the Great Salt Lake (until age four), that
she was kidnapped as a child by Nazis and taken to Germany, and that her
alleged husband Mark "Marty" Rathbun, who she alleges is the secret heir
to the Rothschild fortune, was wrongfully arrested in Madrid, Spain in
1988 and taken to the United States, where she believes he is secretly
being held. (Mark Rathbun was a high official with the Church of
Scientology's Religious Technology Center for many years until October,
2005. A church official has stated that Mr. Rathbun has no knowledge of
Schwarz and cannot explain her behaviour.)
.....
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.190.12.137
Registrant:
DNS Administrator (4HPPQ) dnsa...@sisna.com
SISNA, Inc.
265 East 100 South
Salt Lake City, UT 84111
United States
Phone: +1 (801)9240900
Administrative Contact:
DNS Administrator (N542J) dnsa...@sisna.com
SISNA, Inc.
265 East 100 South
Salt Lake City, UT 84111
United States
Phone: +1 (801)9240900
Technical Contact:
DNS Administrator (HPN3U) dnsa...@sisna.com
SISNA, Inc.
265 East 100 South
Salt Lake City, UT 84111
United States
Phone: +1 (801)9240900
Billing Contact:
DNS Administrator (KLRUE) dnsa...@sisna.com
SISNA, Inc.
265 East 100 South
Salt Lake City, UT 84111
United States
Phone: +1 (801)9240900
> On 13 Feb 2006 14:04:37 -0800, "Barbara Schwarz"
Tilman Hausherr is a German anti-free speech activist.
Tilman Joerg Hausherr from Berlin, Germany (hired by Siemens and
married to Ilse) is an anti-religious harasser, a defamer. He is pro
Eugenics, defends psychiatrists who sexually or otherwise abused
patients, is a German governmental agent and wants to hurt American
tourism.
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hauser1.html
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hauser2.html
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hauser3.html
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hauser4.html
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/whistle/cwletters/cw2.html
Tilman Hausherr posted approx. 24000 aniti-religious hate messages on
Usenet and his thinking is compared to that of Hitler
http://www.alarmgermany.org/tilman.htm
Tilman Hausherr is cold, cruel, fanatic and unprofessional
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Tilman+Hausherr&btnG=Google+Search&domains=BERNIE.CNCFAMILY.COM&sitesearch=BERNIE.CNCFAMILY.COM
***************
About OPC agent Tilman Hausherr and his company Siemens which made and
delivered WMD to Saddam and covered it up:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/7d8ffac20e4dd581?dmode=source&hl=en
***************
Wikipedia founder Jim Jimmy "Jimbo" Wales was the owner/ CEO of porn
search engine Bomis.com. That may also explain why Wikipedia is such a
libel machine in which "contributor" gangs, as the one supporting
Tilman Hausherr or Korey Jerome Kruse of Olathe, Kansas, MO 64601 libel
good people. Kruse posted a lot in drug newsgroups and stole the ID's
of following people and forged following on his websites:
Marty Rathbun, Patrick Michael Sullivan, Tina Phillips, Joel Phillips,
and myself. He claimed also to be David K. Osgood, whose brother is a
former governmental attorney. It is called ID theft. Kruse posts with
"Anus Simkatu" (Yuk!) on Usenet and stole the ID "Vivaldi" to spread
lies about me on Wikipedia.
Geocities just canceled his criminal website
http://www.geocities.com/martysharpgolf/
Kruse is often using the Uni of Kansas computers for his crime spree.
*******************
http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/e5b26534ed8f4b18?hl=en&
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wikipedia%20sucks!&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wg
Hausherr cites Ingo Heinemann (who is pro degrogramming) as "credible"
and not criminal source.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ingo+Heinemann%2Bbarbara+Schwarz&start=0&scoring=d&hl=en&lr=&safe=active&num=30&
***********************
Interesting websites:
http://www.parishioners.org/extremists/index.html
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/medianews/index.html
http://www.alarmgermany.org/tilman.htm
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/whistle/cwletters/cw2.html
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://datafilter.com/mc
http://www.amatterofjustice.org/amoj/00index.cfm
********************
> Grace wrote:
>
> >
> > Barbara Schwarz wrote:
> >> Grace schrieb:
> >
> > Barbara, what does "schrieb" mean?
>
> Writes..
>
>
> Barbara is
Tilman Hausherr and Korey Jerome Kruse are anti-free speech activists.
Their hateful and biases scribble on Wikipedia is hardly a reference,
William Barwell.
What about you? Postings were made saying you are a red neck.
Barbara Schwarz
> Thanks
Ida, if you would have loved your son, you never would have attacked
his religion but tolerated his belief. He was an adult when he decided
to become a Scientologist. He is a good and successful man while you
hang with lawless anti-religious extremists.
As I said, RB woke me up in the middle of the night for "deprogramming"
talks, despite I wasn't running on any program. You are fanatical
enough to do that also to Ron, so, you fanatism is not good for him.
You would picket your son during his nap.
Barbara Schwarz
P.S. Grace, what's written in your SP declare? What horrible things do
you do?
And another thing. If you are a good person, you will be loved by your
family members and nobody can order love to be disconnected. If anybody
disconnects, then because you are not recieved lovable but rather
painful for the person concerned. Ever thought about that? I guess not.
Logic is not your strenght, just blame.
and you,
Barbara.,
who are you ?
boris ryser
www.escape.to/exrael
> Barbara Schwarz wrote:
>
> Barwell is a kook.
Willy, your lies and the lies of your friends Hausherr and Kruse etc.
about me make them to kooks not me.
--
Barbara Schwarz
L. Ron Hubbard: "THE CRIMINAL ACCUSES OTHERS OF THINGS WHICH HE HIMSELF
IS DOING. THE CRIMINAL MIND RELENTLESSLY SEEKS TO DESTROY ANYONE IT
IMAGINES MIGHT EXPOSE IT. THE CRIMINAL ONLY SEES OTHERS AS HE HIMSELF
IS."
L. Ron Hubbard: "HONEST PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS, TOO."
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
(I am concerned about Dave Touretzky's activities.)
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
> Grace wrote:
> >> Oh, I have my IE sometimes on a German program but I don't tell you
> >> why. It means: "Gracey is a terrible SP."
> >
> > Ah! You made a little joke! Very funny!
> >> Alright, seriously, it means nothing but "Grace wrote":
> >>
> >> So, what about your SP declare? Is it so horrible that you can't post
> >> it? Did you kill somebody?
> >>
> > No, it's not that horrible. But, Barbara, why don't you just ask your
> > friends in OSA for a copy? They have it, I'm sure.
> >
> > When I get around to it I'll post it. I just haven't had time.
> >> --
> >> Barbara Schwarz
> >
> > And, Barbara, there have been lots of people unjustly declared
> > suppressive. Why would you assume that my SP declare was fair?
Yes, some were unjust but in your case I doubt it. Let me see for
myself and post it. You can write your comment behind it if you want,
but if you don't want to post it at all tells me that it is the truth.
> >
> > You know, there is a joke about the Scientology justice system. In the
> > United States people are considered innocent until proven guilty,
> > whereas in Scientology they're considered guilty until proven guilty
> > (which they invariably are 'proven').
You just accuse without giving people a chance to see for themselves.
Is that your justice?
> >
>
> Typical Schwarz post - demanding information as if she is entitled to it
> and libeling the person from whom she is demanding information at the
> same time. A waste of time trying to communicate with her as she will
> only accuse you of stalking and defaming her when she does not get what
> she feels entitled to.
>
> Just ignore the woman - answering her is hardly worth the effort.
>
> Kim P
You libel and defame me, Kim Palmer. Filed or called in any false
complaint to an official place about me lately? Committed another
felony lately, Kim?
> Barbara Schwarz wrote:
>
> Nasty nut....
Stop stalking me with the wikipedia libel, Willy Barwell.
Barbara Schwarz
I am not stalking you,. I am warning the people
you have started to stalk as you usually do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Schwarz
> Any person of any religion or
> non-religion disconnects from somebody who is abusive.
Grace never claimed that an abusive person MUST stay connected. So
that is a non-issue. The church forced disconnection.
>Why on earth, or
> better, why in hell should Scientologists not have the same right?
Why were you removed from CO$ considering that "infiltrarors" do not
exist but only scientologists.
>
>
>
> Barbara Schwarz
> L. Ron Hubbard: "HONEST PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS, TOO."
Not according to: Jay Random User do an A.R.S. search of his name
>
>snip spam
Meint die erbärmliche Barbara Schwarz tatsächlich, dass sie
ernstgenommen wird mit ihren stets scheiternden Verleumdungen? So dumm
wie die Scientologen mit ihren Hass- und Verleumdungsseiten sind
normale, selber denkende Leute halt nicht. Das geht ins eigene Auge,
Psychobarbie
Peter
--
Peter Widmer <pwi...@quicknet.ch>
3802 Waldegg <http://www.pewid.ch>
She's an insane bit of flotsam left over from the Scientology cult's heyday,
still trying to "keep scientology working" despite years of abject failure.
--
http://BuffaloScientologyInfo.com - http://www.xenu.net
http://PerkinsTragedy.org - http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
* "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All
mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
Probablement même pas; selon moi, Barbara Schwarz est un pseudo synthétisé par
OSA, un de plus, pour essayer de semer la pagaille dans les forums qui osent
"blasphémer" la secte des hubbardites.
Je ne sais pas depuis combien de temps la vraie BS a été vue vivante. Son
personnage est fort peu vraisemblable, et il paraît impossible qu'une fauchée
ait pu déclencher plusieurs milliers de demandes officielles concernant ...
Hubbard, mais aussi Eisenhower... probablement histoire de voiler les vraies
causes des demandes de ce "personnage" BS.
r
r
when answering to crime cult OSAers, better not letting their spam below... and
change their titles.