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Another isolation case: Gitte Mogensen, May 1996

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Catarina Pamnell

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Nov 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/6/98
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This is the story of Gitte Mogensen, as it was told to me by one of persons
who were there, "babywatching" her. He is a former staff member of DK
Foundation org in Copenhagen, Denmark, Karsten J. Lorenzen.

A few of you have heard some of this story already, but Karsten did not
want it widely spread before, for a particular reason. Now he says that is
not a stop anymore, so here it is.

Not long after this happened, Karsten left Scientology. He said he kept
having nightmares of Gitte's bruised face. The worst part, he said, is not
just knowing that he had been obeying orders, but that he sincerely
believed at the time that what they were doing was the right thing. They
were "saving a girl from the evil psychs".

This was put together from notes I took while talking to Karsten in a
restaurant after the picket in Copenhagen two days ago, Nov 4, so it is a
bit sketchy and not to be viewed as the final version - maybe Karsten will
give that himself some day.

Thanks, Karsten, for having the courage to tell about this.

-----------

This happened around May 1996.

The "Golden Age of Tech" had just been announced. Every org was to send 3
or 4 people to Flag to get trained as "Golden Age of Tech" Course
Supervisor, Case Supervisor and Word Clearer. The DK Foundation org sent
three people to Flag, Dennis, Per and Gitte Mogensen. Gitte was a handball
player and in very good physical shape.

The following is what Karsten heard about what happened at Flag, from
talking to the other Danish students, and mostly from a Flag OSA staff, a
French woman called Valerie.

The course was said to be the toughest preparation course ever held, with
students given very stiff targets on their Student Points (the statistic of
a student; various points are given for pages read, words cleared, drills
passed, etc.). Gitte was not doing well and fell behind, so she was sent to
Ethics. This was the last time the other Danish students saw her.

At Ethics she broke down Four people were assigned as "nannies" to watch
her, one of them was Flag OSA staff Valerie.

Gitte was put on a special diet: fruit, bread, water, juice, Cal-Mag and
vitamins.

She was upset and out of control. She grabbed a knife and slashed both her
wrists. Luckily, the people watching her were able to stop the blood flow.
They had to wrestle with her to get her under control, and during this her
face got scratched.

She got checked up by a male medical doctor at Flag (Karsten did not know
his name, "the one they usually go to".)

Then she was sent back to Denmark the day before the other Danes came back.
Valerie went with Gitte on the plane, maybe because she had formerly worked
in Copenhagen.

An old public member, a nice lady called Gulli, had an apartment in
Birkeroed (north of Copenhagen, about 20 minutes drive). She was supposed
to go away for a while, and let the org borrow her place for Gitte to stay
there with her watcher.

Valerie was now very tired and suffered from jet lag. Karsten, who was the
PES (Public Executive Secretary, head of the public divisions) of DK
Foundation org, was called up by Erik, the HES (HCO Executive Secretary,
head of among other things personnel, ethics and sales). Erik said that he
and the ED, Niels, wanted to speak to Karsten. When he got to the org they
asked him whether he knew Gitte, but he didn't. They said she was in this
apartment in Birkeroed and needed help, and she could not go to the
hospital since then she would be put in the hands of the psychs. Could he
go there? He agreed to do this, as long as his girlfriend (also DK org
staff) could come along. They were going through a rough time in their
relationship, and he was worried that she would be upset if he went away
without warning.

When he got to Birkeroed, Valerie said she was going to take a nap. If
Gitte woke up and wanted to go to the bathroom, he had to make sure first
that there was absolutely nothing in there that she could use to harm
herself.

Karsten talked with his girlfriend all night, until she left at 5 a.m. to
go to her job at DK org.

Gitte woke up in the morning. She was very thin, just skin and bones, had
scratches in her face and bandages around both wrists. She asked to go to
the bathroom. Karsten went in there to first remove anything he thought
could possibly be dangerous, before letting her in. Then Gitte went back to
sleep.

Karsten woke Valerie up at about 7 or 8 a.m. He asked her what was going on
with Gitte, and Valerie told about what had happened at Flag.

They made some breakfast. Karsten asked what about Gitte, and was told of
the diet she was on. She was to have 2 slices of white bread, 1 glass of
juice, 1 banana and vitamins. Karsten prepared this on a tray, which
Valerie brought to Gitte.

Now Karsten wanted to catch some sleep, but Valerie told him her seniors at
AOSH (that would have been OSA though, she was Flag OSA staff) had told her
they needed to take Gitte to a doctor in Aarhus (in Jutland, about 350
kilometres from Copenhagen).

Karsten had no money for transportation, so at 9 a.m. when the DK Day org
opened he called there to get the phone number for the ED of the Foundation
org, Niels, who in the daytime was working as an engineer at a well known
company called NKT. Karsten asked Niels to make sure they got money to
bring Gitte to the doctor. Niels said he was going to call the finance
office of the org and arrange it. Half an hour later, Karsten called the
org, but they said they had not heard anything about this from Niels.
Karsten got mad, as they had to take a train from Copenhagen in 30 minutes,
and demanded that they just get the money. He, Valerie and Gitte took a cab
to Copenhagen, got a woman from the finance office to bring the money, and
got on the train at the last minute.

The train to Kalundborg took 2.5 hours, they waited half an hour there and
then got on the ferry to Aarhus. Gitte wanted to go outside to look at the
water. They hesitated to let her out, in case she would jump, but she was
calm and they took her out for a little while.

In Aarhus, they took a cab to the doctor (Karsten estimates from the cab
fare that this was about 5 kilometres from the ferry). The doctor had a
large and very nice house. Expensive furniture, exclusive leather chairs,
etc. They were the last visitors for the day, only the doctor and a nurse
were there. Gitte went in alone to be examined. Afterwards, Valerie asked
the doctor what he had said to Gitte, and Valerie and Karsten were let into
the doctor's office and told everything that had been said. The doctor
wanted to make some tests: he had taken some samples of Gitte's hair, skin
and blood, and gave them containers to take urine/stool samples. She was
going to be put on a vitamin treatment - this doctor did not work with
drugs.

They took a cab back to town. They had to wait another two hours before
getting the ferry at 9 p.m., so they got something to eat. Gitte had 2
potatoes, a very small piece of meat and a few beans. She was quiet,
waiting for orders from her watchers. Karsten talked to her a bit, asked
how she was, and got in some contact with her. She sounded humiliated, and
didn't want to speak much when Valerie was near. If Valerie told her
something, she looked at Karsten for approval. Since he was Danish and more
at home, he became the one who took charge while they were travelling.

On the train, Gitte fell asleep. In Copenhagen, Erik picked them up at the
central station. Karsten's girlfriend had called. Karsten wanted to stay
with Gitte, he thought it was his job to see that she was OK. But Erik said
he'd better go home to be with his girlfriend, so he went home.

Next morning, Karsten was called into the org and told to go back to
Birkeroed, so Valerie could get some sleep. First he was to wake Gitte up
to have breakfast. He went into her room with a tray and called "Gitte,
here's your breakfast". There was no response. He called her several times,
but there was still no response. He went to Valerie and asked her to wake
Gitte up. Valerie yelled, but Gitte didn't move. Valerie told Karsten to
check if there were any reactions at all, while she called the org. Karsten
found that her heart was beating and that she was still breathing, but when
he shook her there was no reactions. He told Valerie that Gitte was alive,
but he still could not wake her up. Not even when he poured water on her
did she respond. Valerie said she had been told by her senior to put food
in Gitte's mouth, make sure she chewed and swallowed it, and then leave her
and they would send an auditor over to handle her. Karsten held Gitte's
head, while Valerie pushed food into her.

At that point, the woman who owned the apartment walked in. She panicked.
Karsten asked her to leave the room, then went out to talk to her, asked
her to go and clean the dishes to get her to calm down. Karsten went back
to Gitte. She was coughing, spit running from her mouth, but Valerie kept
pushing food in her. Then they stopped the feeding attempt and left her
alone, like they had been told. Karsten asked the owner of the apartment
why she was there, she was supposed to be on holiday? She wanted to know
what was happening. He said this is what is best now, and an auditor is
coming from AOSH, and the woman calmed down.

The auditor, a woman, arrived. She went in to work with Gitte, then came
out and said "she's fine now, her eyes are open". Karsten went to check her
- her eyes were open, but there was no response, nobody there - it was like
looking into the eyes of a dead person. The auditor told them to keep her
on the diet, and for Karsten to come into the org later, she had to teach
him something.

Karsten went to the DK org later that night, and learned how to do the body
comm assist. This was to be done if that situation ever happend again. Then
he went home to change his shirt, had an argument with his girlfriend, and
went back to Birkeroed.

Gitte was sleeping. Valerie said she had to be wakened up to take a walk,
then she should eat bread, fruit, vitamins, Cal-Mag, etc. Karsten
questioned the Cal-Mag (that is supposed to calm a person down, but she
seemed rather to need to be made more awake). Gitte was woken up and
Valerie took her for a walk. Karsten called DK org and asked them for
someone more qualified to come and take care of this situation. They said
there were two public members who were qualified nurses. The nurses did
come, and Karsten went home.

The next day, Karsten went back to Birkeroed. The org called and said there
was a problem - Gitte's parents now knew that she was back in Denmark and
wanted to see her. Karsten said they could not see her in this condition,
they had to invent something to say to the parents. The org told them that
Gitte was on a top secret program preparing for the Dianetics Day event,
and could not talk to them for a few days. The parents were calmed for a
moment, but they must have sensed that something was wrong, and kept
calling for her. The org called to Birkeroed again, and eventually Gitte's
sister was allowed to call her. Karsten asked Gitte if she wanted to speak
to her sister, but she didn't. Karsten spoke to the sister and said things
would soon be fine again, and after a while Gitte did come to talk to her
sister. They were both crying. Gitte didn't say much to her sister, Karsten
and Valerie were standing beside her. Her sister wanted to see her, but
they said it was impossible. Karsten called the org to ask what to do. He
was told to go home. That was the last time he saw Gitte.

The rest he was told by other people in DK org. The parents eventually
convinced the org to let them go to see Gitte. The two nurses were present
to give a better impression. Gitte was crying. The parents wanted to take
her home, and after some discussion they finally were allowed to take her
for one night. She never came back. Karsten went to the apartment to be
there if she would show up, but she never did.

On the saturday that week, there was the Dianetics Day event. Before the
event, Niels (the ED) asked Karsten how he was. He said it was hell, with
all the things that had been going on with Gitte, and with his personal
life. So he was told to go get some auditing, and then got a commendation
for his outstanding help on the situation with Gitte.

The following week, Gitte's parents came to get her things from the org
(when she left to go for training at Flag, she had given up her apartment,
and stored some things in the org basement). Karsten helped them to carry
the stuff upstairs, and asked them how Gitte was doing. They just said she
was fine now. He has not heard anything more about her since.


Tommy

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Nov 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/6/98
to
Catarina Pamnell wrote:
>
> This is the story of Gitte Mogensen, as it was told to me by one of persons
> who were there, "babywatching" her. He is a former staff member of DK
> Foundation org in Copenhagen, Denmark, Karsten J. Lorenzen.
> <snip>

> She was upset and out of control. She grabbed a knife and slashed both her
> wrists. Luckily, the people watching her were able to stop the blood flow.
> They had to wrestle with her to get her under control, and during this her
> face got scratched.
> <snip>

> In Aarhus, they took a cab to the doctor (Karsten estimates from the cab
> fare that this was about 5 kilometres from the ferry). The doctor had a
> large and very nice house. Expensive furniture, exclusive leather chairs,
> etc. They were the last visitors for the day, only the doctor and a nurse
> were there. Gitte went in alone to be examined. Afterwards, Valerie asked
> the doctor what he had said to Gitte, and Valerie and Karsten were let into
> the doctor's office and told everything that had been said. The doctor
> wanted to make some tests: he had taken some samples of Gitte's hair, skin
> and blood, and gave them containers to take urine/stool samples. She was
> going to be put on a vitamin treatment - this doctor did not work with
> drugs.


Christ on a crutch! A severely disturbed and suicidal young woman is brought to this so-called doctor, and his
response is to give her a vitamin. Unbelievable. No wonder these morons are afraid of Psychiatrists - they're
absolutely insane.

Tommy
--

"Bluntly, we are out to replace medicine in the next three years."
L.Ron Hubbard - 1952

Clind

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Nov 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/6/98
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Thank you Catarina, Gitte and Karsten for this story.
I understand it must have been painful for you all
to tell this, but it could be life-saving for other
victims of the Xenu-Cult belief. My sympathy
also goes out to the relatives of Gitte.

Regards,

Christer Lindstrom


cul...@primenet.com

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Nov 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/6/98
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"Catarina Pamnell" <cpam...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>This is the story of Gitte Mogensen, as it was told to me by one of persons
>who were there, "babywatching" her. He is a former staff member of DK
>Foundation org in Copenhagen, Denmark, Karsten J. Lorenzen.

I've webbed this at http://www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/morgens.htm


*****

"The idea that one can 'push' Scientology
and get no penalty is a false one." Russell Shaw
"To punish to the fullest extent of my power anyone
misusing or degrading Scientology to harmful ends" (The
original Code of a Scientologist)

Tilman Hausherr

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Nov 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/6/98
to
In <01be0976$080b45e0$4f26f482@default>, "Catarina Pamnell"
<cpam...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Valerie said she had been told by her senior to put food
>in Gitte's mouth, make sure she chewed and swallowed it, and then leave her
>and they would send an auditor over to handle her. Karsten held Gitte's
>head, while Valerie pushed food into her.
>
>At that point, the woman who owned the apartment walked in. She panicked.
>Karsten asked her to leave the room, then went out to talk to her, asked
>her to go and clean the dishes to get her to calm down. Karsten went back
>to Gitte. She was coughing, spit running from her mouth, but Valerie kept
>pushing food in her.

Gitte Mogensen is lucky not to have died at this time.

Tilman

Keith Henson

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Nov 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/7/98
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Tilman Hausherr <til...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
: In <01be0976$080b45e0$4f26f482@default>, "Catarina Pamnell"
: <cpam...@yahoo.com> wrote:

: >Valerie said she had been told by her senior to put food


: >in Gitte's mouth, make sure she chewed and swallowed it, and then leave her
: >and they would send an auditor over to handle her. Karsten held Gitte's
: >head, while Valerie pushed food into her.
: >
: >At that point, the woman who owned the apartment walked in. She panicked.
: >Karsten asked her to leave the room, then went out to talk to her, asked
: >her to go and clean the dishes to get her to calm down. Karsten went back
: >to Gitte. She was coughing, spit running from her mouth, but Valerie kept
: >pushing food in her.

: Gitte Mogensen is lucky not to have died at this time.

No kidding. Pushing food into someone's mouth who is not conscious is
very likely to get them to suck food into their lungs and die.

Keith Henson

Catarina Pamnell

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Nov 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/7/98
to

Tilman Hausherr skrev i meddelandet
<36a735af....@news.snafu.de>...

>
>Gitte Mogensen is lucky not to have died at this time.


It is almost unbelievable that, seeing what had happened to
Lisa McPherson, they would still use the same methods on
another person six months later!

Note also that, with the capital city of Copenhagen 20 minutes
away, they preferred to take her this ill girl to a "doctor" in
Aarhus, about 4 hours of travel. And with somebody not
reacting, almost comatose, what do you do? Call OSA who send an
auditor...

Catarina
(sick at heart)


Alan Furman

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Nov 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/7/98
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In article <7224l7$qg5$1...@cubacola.tninet.se>,
Catarina Pamnell <cpam...@yahoo.com> wrote:

In case the mood strikes Bernie McCabe to do his job, he ought to have
copies of signed affidavits by witnesses to this pleasant little incident.

If not, the SP Times should have them.

--
LEGALIZE FREEDOM http://www.lp.org UBI LIBERTAS IBI PATRIA
"There's no way to rule innocent men...When there aren't enough criminals,
one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes
impossible to live without breaking laws." -- Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged_

jj_c...@my-dejanews.com

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Nov 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/8/98
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In article <hkhensonF...@netcom.com>,
Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com> wrote:

> No kidding. Pushing food into someone's mouth who is not conscious is
> very likely to get them to suck food into their lungs and die.
>
> Keith Henson

Yeah - no kiddin' man. Slicin' someone's head off who is not conscious is
very likely to get them to lose their head and die.

Very astute observation.

Craig

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm."
--------- Ralph Waldo Emerson

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Tommy

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Nov 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/8/98
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jj_c...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <hkhensonF...@netcom.com>,
> Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > No kidding. Pushing food into someone's mouth who is not conscious is
> > very likely to get them to suck food into their lungs and die.
> >
> > Keith Henson
>
> Yeah - no kiddin' man. Slicin' someone's head off who is not conscious is
> very likely to get them to lose their head and die.
>
> Very astute observation.
>
> Craig


Is that the best you can do? Pitiful.

Tommy

--

'I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys.'
Hubbard, 1967 letter to his wife submitted to the court in the
Armstrong
case, authenticity unchallenged by LRH/CoS lawyers

David Gerard

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Nov 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/9/98
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On Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:47:49 +0100, Catarina Pamnell <cpam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:Tilman Hausherr skrev i meddelandet
:<36a735af....@news.snafu.de>...

:>Gitte Mogensen is lucky not to have died at this time.

:It is almost unbelievable that, seeing what had happened to
:Lisa McPherson, they would still use the same methods on
:another person six months later!


Has anyone seen Gitte Mogensen?

How about a sign saying 'WHERE IS GITTE MOGENSEN?' and the text of your
post as a leaflet?

Have her family been told?

When will there be enough detail to go to the press?


--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/
http://suburbia.net/~fun/scn/
http://xenu.netizen.com.au/
"Omit needless words" - Strunk & White

Catarina Pamnell

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Nov 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/9/98
to

jj_c...@my-dejanews.com skrev i meddelandet
<72364c$cll$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

>In article <hkhensonF...@netcom.com>,
> Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> No kidding. Pushing food into someone's mouth who is not
conscious is
>> very likely to get them to suck food into their lungs and
die.
>>
>> Keith Henson
>


<snip usual bs>


>Craig

Getting back to the subject of this thread, your view about the
way this girl was treated is...?

Catarina


Catarina Pamnell

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Nov 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/9/98
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cul...@primenet.com

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Nov 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/12/98
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cul...@primenet.com wrote:

>"Catarina Pamnell" <cpam...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>This is the story of Gitte Mogensen, as it was told to me by one of persons
>>who were there, "babywatching" her. He is a former staff member of DK
>>Foundation org in Copenhagen, Denmark, Karsten J. Lorenzen.

>I've webbed this at http://www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/morgens.htm

I put it at mogens.htm to make it closer to the name than my initial
misreading. morgens.htm simply links to mogens.htm

Catarina Pamnell

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Nov 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/15/98
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Sargent wrote:

(snip)

>
> I have a booklet from the LDS
> church 'how to covert born again Christians' and other
> Christian denominations.

(Snip some more)

Well, Sarge old buddy, there went all your credibility out the window. I am
passingly familiar with the church's missionary materials, and there is no
such pamphlet, nor anything like unto it. You *may* possess an amateur's
photocopied production, but if you go to the local LDS bookstore, there is
no "comparative religion" shelf such as you will find at any self-respecting
evangelical outlet. We are too busy telling anyone interested the good news
of the restoration to get into spitting contests with your ilk. (A.R.M.
being a guilty pleasure of an exception for a few of us).

Lorin John
aka Buzzard


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