My perspective on auditing
Stacy Brooks
doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a Scientologist.
Without question, the subject they ask me about most often is the tech of
auditing. What do I think about the Tech? Do I think it works?
When anyone calls me for advice about whether auditing is beneficial or
harmful, I always preface my response by saying that there have never been any
clinical studies done to determine the effects of auditing. I have my
opinions, but my opinions are based purely on my own experience and nothing
else. Certainly they are not based on any scientific evidence, because there
isn't any. Hubbard never did any scientific testing, and no one else ever has
either. The only available information is purely anecdotal. Ten Scientologists
could write about their experiences in auditing and they would all have
totally different perspectives, I am sure.
What I have to say here is my opinion.
Since I left Scientology I have had a chance to learn more about the various
schools of therapy that have been developed. Now I understand that Hubbard
borrowed from a number of different schools when he put together the lower
levels of auditing. Dianetics and the Grades are basically a simple form of
regression therapy. The theory of regression therapy is that by going back and
revisiting moments of trauma, one can resolve confusions that were created by
the trauma and thereby free up more of one's mind for creative endeavors.
My view is that not everyone in the world needs therapy, and that of those who
feel they do, different kinds of therapy work for different people. Some can
benefit from simple regression; others may need medication, and still others
may find that transactional analysis, or perhaps Jungian analysis, or perhaps
something else helps them. I do not believe that any one form of therapy will
work on everyone.
I think Scientology does many people a great disservice by insisting that "the
Tech" works on everyone in exactly the same way and that if they are not
having gains it means there is something wrong with them. I don't think that's
true. Some people say they have made gains from their Dianetics or Grades
auditing, and I won't dispute that. But many others have told me it didn't
work for them. I don't dispute that either.
Auditing, at the lower levels where it is simple regression therapy such as
Life Repair, Self-Analysis Lists or Grades, may be beneficial for some people.
Scientology auditors have no formal education to prepare them as therapists -
even the highest trained auditor studies nothing but L. Ron Hubbard's writings
and is forbidden to study anything else. But even so, perhaps it can be
beneficial, just as Transactional analysis or Jungian psychotherapy can be
beneficial for some people. Conversely, if a person gets involved in a form of
therapy that is not right for them, it won't help them and may even make them
worse.
In the lower levels of auditing, an auditor guides the preclear, using an
E-meter, to areas of trauma or difficulty. By talking about these personal
difficulties, some people feel some relief from painful memories. The
preclear's personal reality is important in this auditing. Whatever is true
for the preclear is what is addressed.
This is what attracts many people to Scientology. They hear auditing is a form
of therapy that is tailor-made for each individual's particular problems, or
"case," as they call it in Scientology. This is a very important aspect of the
initial attraction. Many people are thrilled at the idea that such a thing
exists.
As I said, some people say they have made gains from their Dianetics or Grades
auditing, and I won't dispute that. However, there is at least one major
aspect of the lower level auditing that concerns me.
What happens in an auditing session is that the auditor asks the preclear, or
pc, to locate a moment of trauma in his or her life. The pc is indoctrinated
to believe that similar traumatic or painful experiences (such as all the
times when you hurt your knee, or all the times when you missed your mother)
are linked in the mind. If the pc tells the auditor about a certain moment of
trauma and there is nothing earlier holding it in place, then once the pc has
revisited that moment, the upset connected with that moment will vanish. But
if there are earlier similar moments of trauma, it will be necessary for the
pc to revisit those earlier moments before the trauma connected with that
particular "chain" will vanish. The auditor decides whether or not there are
earlier similar experiences by the behavior of the needle on the E-meter. If
it is free-floating, the chain is finished. If not, there is something
earlier.
Now let's see how this plays out in an auditing session.
Your auditor asks you to recall a time when you lost a friend. You tell him in
as much detail as possible about a time when your best friend moved to another
state. The auditor thanks you, and then asks you for an earlier similar time
when you lost a friend. From this you know that the auditor did not see a
free-floating needle and therefore knows you still have earlier traumas
connected with this question. Believing that this is the way the mind works,
you dutifully search your memory for an earlier time when you lost a friend.
You remember a time when you were six and you and your neighbor had to start
school at different schools. You remember crying and begging your mother to
let you go to the same school as Sally. You hadn't remembered that in a long
time. You hadn't realized you still had so much trauma connected with Sally.
You think you're finished with that chain of traumas. But your auditor asks
you again for an earlier similar incident. You can't remember anything earlier
than that and you tell your auditor so. Your auditor is very understanding and
tells you to let him know whatever comes into your mind. You want to do what
your auditor says because you trust him, so you try to remember another
similar experience. You close your eyes and let your mind float a little bit.
You see a picture in your mind of someone lying on the ground. Your auditor
says, "What's that?" Then you know that there is some validity to the picture
you just saw, because the auditor saw a response on the E-meter. Now you look
more closely at this picture. You start to add details to the picture you saw.
The auditor asks you when this experience happened. The year 1864 comes into
your mind. You say this to your auditor. He acknowledges you and helps you
fill in more details of what is happening.
Soon you can describe a full-blown scenario to your auditor. You are on a
battlefield with lots of other soldiers. You are looking down at a young man
in a blue uniform with blood all over his chest. You kneel down and cradle his
head while he dies. "I'll miss you," he says, and you start to cry as he dies
in your arms.
Oh! You tell your auditor tearfully, now you understand why losing friends has
always been such a terrible thing for you. Your auditor smiles at you
approvingly and tells you that your needle is floating.
In Scientology they call this "going whole track." The Whole Track is a
reference to the entire history of the universe that goes back millions and
millions of years.
In auditing, the preclear is utterly dependent upon the auditor to confirm
that these incidents are real. It all depends on what the E-meter is doing. If
the meter says the incident is real, then it is. Gradually it becomes easier
and easier for the preclear to believe that these past life incidents really
happened. The preclear's boundaries gradually fall away completely, until
there is no limit at all on what might have happened. It doesn't matter, after
all. No matter what the preclear says, the auditor always smiles and says his
needle is floating.
Now you have had hundreds of hours of Dianetics and Grade auditing. Your idea
of what is real has completely changed. You know you are different from other
people, because now you know that you have lived for millions of years. You
know it is true because you've relived so many experiences in your auditing.
You feel set apart from other people who have not yet discovered the truth.
You want your family to experience the truth too, but you can't tell them.
They wouldn't believe you. They have to experience it for themselves. You're
spending your time with other Scientologists now, because it's uncomfortable
to be around non-Scientologists. They don't understand. Scientologists are the
only ones who know what reality really is.
Now when your auditor asks you for an earlier similar incident, you don't have
to be coaxed into finding a picture. You know what to do. Now, as soon as the
auditor asks the question, a picture appears. There is no longer any
difference in your mind between something that happened yesterday, and
something that happened 300 years ago, or 25,000 years ago, or a million years
ago.
All Scientologists believe that these incidents they find in their auditing
really happened to them. They believe that they have memories going back
thousands of years, millions of years, even billions of years. This is
encouraged by the auditing process, in which the preclear is repeatedly told,
"What is true for you is true for you." In practice, this means that the
auditor validates as real anything the preclear comes up with in session, no
matter how far-fetched it may be.
Moreover, the preclear is not allowed to discuss all of this with anyone but
his auditor. Husbands and wives are not permitted to talk about what happens
in their auditing sessions. Friends are required to report on each other if
someone talks about an incident from their auditing. So the preclear is left
without any way of keeping himself anchored in the real world. There is no way
to verify whether or not something is true or imaginary.
Preclears who do not give their auditors incidents prior to this lifetime are
required to undergo a Whole Track Remedy before they are allowed to go onto
their upper levels. So this belief in a personal history stretching back
millions of years is a required part of the preclear's reality in order to
progress up the Bridge to Total Freedom.
In my opinion, this insistence on letting go of any boundaries for what is
true and what is imaginary, and the requirement that one is not allowed to
compare notes with anyone else about what is coming up in the auditing
sessions, is all part of a gradual indoctrination that prepares people for
what they will be required to accept as reality on the upper levels.
Let me recount my own experience. On my lower level auditing I had found
earlier similar incidents that seemed to be past life experiences. I wasn't
sure if they were real or imaginary, and there was no way for me to find out.
Certainly I couldn't ask my auditor, because if I told my auditor that these
incidents didn't seem real to me, I would be sent back to do even more of this
kind of auditing and that was the last thing I wanted to do. I just wanted to
keep going up the Bridge to Total Freedom until I got to some part of it that
made sense to me.
I did my auditing back in the old days - in the mid-1970s - when people were
still required to do a step called R6-EW and the Clearing Course in order to
go Clear before moving on to the OT levels. Instead of making more sense,
these upper levels were even more confusing than the lower ones. At least on
the earlier levels I was told that the auditing had something to do with
experiences that were personal to me. Starting with R6-EW and continuing on
the Clearing Course, I was given lengthy instructions about what I was
supposed to audit. No longer was I addressing my own reality. Now I was told
that everyone had been given identical horrific implants that I would be
auditing out from now on. It had nothing to do with me any more.
I stumbled my way through the end words of R6-EW and the bizarre "implant
sequences" of the Clearing Course. Somehow I managed to tell the examiner
after one of my solo sessions that it seemed like I was mocking the whole
thing up. What I meant was that none of what I was auditing seemed in any way
real to me, and I didn't think the E-meter was really reading on anything but
my imagination. But soon I was called to attest to the State of Clear, and I
discovered I had voiced the "Clear Cognition." That was it? I thought to
myself, although of course I didn't say that to anyone. Here I was at this
tremendous milestone in my life, attesting to the State of Clear, and I felt
exactly the same as I had before - except a bit more confused.
I did what many of the people I have spoken to also did. I went along with
what was happening because I didn't want anyone to know it wasn't making sense
to me. Shouldn't I feel elated, exhilarated, different somehow? But I didn't.
I resolved to continue on to the next levels. Maybe if I just kept going it
would start to make sense.
But OT 2 was an even more bizarre assortment of implant sequences, punctuated
with moments during which bright lights were supposed to have been part of the
implant and I was supposed to contact my memory of these lights until I got
a big meter read.
Anyone who is familiar with False Memory Syndrome may be feeling by now that
auditing is a classic example of it. That is certainly how I feel about it
now. I think all of this telling me what happened to me millions of years ago
and then getting me to "remember" these things until I "confirmed" it by the
E-meter is nothing more than coercing me into creating memories to further
someone else's agenda.
The only way I could get the meter to read was to heave a big sigh, which is
what I did every time I thought about these lights. That way I could report
that I was getting a meter read. It was the best I could do. None of it had
anything to do with me whatsoever. That was how I felt.
But I thought the best thing to do was keep quiet and get to OT 3, the famous
Wall of Fire. There the secrets of the Universe would be revealed to me, and
all of this lower level stuff would fade into insignificance.
When I finally was admitted to the OT 3 course room I thought to myself,
"Finally! Now it will finally all make sense to me!"
Oh, how wrong I was.
Reverently, I took the dog-eared legal-sized file folder from the course
supervisor. Struggling to contain my excitement, I opened the pack and read
LRH's handwritten explanation of the history of the universe. This is what I
discovered:
Xenu, the head of the Galactic Federation, which consisted of seventy-six
planets, had a terrible overpopulation problem - up to 250 billion people per
planet. He decided to solve it by mass implanting. So he rounded everybody up
and shipped them to this planet, which was known at that time as Teegeeack
(pronounced T-G-ack). He blew everybody up by dropping H-bombs into volcanoes.
Then he had all the people who had been blown up in the Pacific area taken in
boxes to Hawaii, and all the people who had been blown up in the Atlantic area
taken in boxes to Las Palmas. Then everyone was subjected to several weeks of
implanting, during which all these disembodied creatures were implanted with
everything we currently think of as reality. The implant was designed to kill
anyone who tried to solve it. Only through LRH's courageous technical
development was it now possible to overcome it.
Now I learned the terrible truth: my body was a mass of individual disembodied
space creatures, or body thetans, as they are called in Scientology, stuck to
me. I would have to audit each one of these body thetans and get them to
leave. It was going to take a long time, but there it was. Hubbard said,
basically, that it was a good thing someone had finally had the courage to
chart this dangerous path for everyone else. It was a heroic thing he had done
for all of us.
I sat there for a long time after I read this startling revelation. It was a
profound turning point for me. I will describe what went on in my mind as well
as I possibly can. Here I had finally made it to the Wall of Fire, I had just
been given the Secrets of the Universe. This was Reality! I distinctly
remember feeling like I was in a state of suspended animation; as if I were
watching myself to see how I was going to react to this news. I almost let the
thought form: "You've got to be kidding!" But I caught it just in time and
squelched it. I did allow myself to think that I didn't understand what he was
talking about. But having already installed L. Ron Hubbard in my mind as the
unerring dispenser of Truth, there was no way for me to reject the
information. I remember feeling completely numb and making sure to arrange my
expression so that the course supervisor would not realize how stunned I was.
Mercifully, it was soon time for dinner. I remember walking toward the galley
(the dining room), which was in the basement of what is now Celebrity Centre
in Los Angeles, trying to digest what I had just learned. As I walked over a
small bridge I suddenly stopped dead in my tracks, frozen by the thought that
I was crawling with millions of disembodied creatures. I had to restrain the
urge to wipe my hands over my whole body to get them off!
That was in 1976. From then on until I left Scientology in 1989, auditing was
completely and utterly about getting rid of as many of these BTs as possible.
No one ever mentioned my own problems again, unless it was to security check
me to find out my crimes. But as far as any kind of therapy for me,
psychologically or emotionally, that was over. Now I was supposed to be above
all of that. That was all for the uninitiated. I had no case; I was Clear.
Emotions and problems were for people who were still encumbered with such
degraded human issues. If I had any problems or difficulties of any kind,
there were only two possible reasons. Either my ethics were out and I had
hidden crimes, or I had BTs who had waked up and were enveloping me in their
degraded emotions, and they needed to be audited out. I couldn't have any
problems or difficulties myself, remember - I was Clear. I effectively ceased
to exist as myself. I was nothing more than a mass of BTs.
Solo auditing was always bizarre for me. Sitting in the room all alone,
holding both cans in one hand, watching the E-meter dial for a read that would
tell me where my next BT was - I only got a few reads during my OT 3 auditing.
You get to attest to OT 3 Completion when you can't find any more BTs. Well, I
attested very quickly, glad to be done with this strange auditing level. I was
ready to move on to something else.
To my great dismay, I discovered that the rest of the Bridge to Total Freedom
was all about BTs, BTs, and more BTs.
OT 4 is the OT Drug Rundown, during which you locate BTs who have been
affected by drugs. You have to get each BT to zero in on the particular drugs
that caused the problem and audit those drugs out until the BT can blow.
On each of these levels you are assured that you have gotten rid of all your
BTs. You attest to being free of all BTs and you are really happy to have rid
yourself of all the little parasitic creatures. Then you route onto your next
level and you are told, "Actually you do have more BTs. We just didn't want to
tell you until you were ready to hear it."
The day before you were perfectly certain that you were free of the little
disembodied thetans. Now you suddenly discover that in fact you have millions
more; you just weren't aware enough to perceive them until now.
OT 5 is Audited New Era Dianetics for OTs, or Audited NOTs for short. On NOTs
you learn that everything is made up of BTs. EVERYTHING. Your toes, your
thoughts, your love for your daughter, the moon, your fork, your shoes, your
teeth, your bones, your molecules - literally everything - is made up of BTs.
You have an auditor with you for Audited NOTs. Your auditor tells you to
locate another BT and ask it, "What are you?" You do this silently, and the BT
then answers your question, silently, of course. As I said before, it can
answer literally anything. It might say, "your third fingernail on your left
hand," or it might say, "your refrigerator," "the light bulb," "the anger
you're feeling toward your mother," anything. The rug, the window pane, the
North Star, a Kleenex. Remember, what's true for the preclear, or pc, is what
is true, and now the pc is the BT. You never invalidate the pc.
You get the BT to keep answering the question, "What are you?" until the
auditor can tell by meter read that the BT has given you the right answer.
Then you are told to ask the BT another question, "Who are you?" When the BT
answers, "I'm me!" it causes the needle on the E-meter to fall dramatically
and the BT blows.
Again, you audit OT 5 until you can't find any more BTs. You attest to having
no more BTs, and then you go onto Solo NOTs. First you do OT 6, which is the
Solo NOTs Auditing Course. On it, you learn how to audit your own BTs on the
NOTs processes.
Then you begin OT 7, Audited NOTs. On this level you sit in an auditing room
all alone, holding both cans in one hand, locating BTs by meter read, and
auditing your BTs on the NOTs commands, "What are you?" and "Who are you?"
just as I described above, until they blow. The way you know when a BT has
blown, by the way, is that your needle starts to float on the dial, signifying
that there is nothing there any more. You will continue to find BTs and audit
them until your body begins to look translucent, signifying that all of your
BTs are gone.
By now you know that the entire physical universe is composed of BTs. You know
that the reason it is so important to get everyone on the planet into
Scientology and on the Bridge to Total Freedom is that it will take every
single person auditing all day long, every day, for many, many years, to audit
out all the body thetans that compose the physical universe. You now share the
most important secret of all, because only now that you are on OT 7 do you
know that the true goal of Scientology is to make the physical universe
disappear.
And that is why nothing can stand in the way of Scientology's forward
expansion. That is why anyone who tries to stop Scientology must be ruthlessly
moved out of the way. Truly, it is a matter of the greatest good for the
greatest number of dynamics! How can we be concerned about the fate of one
individual critic, or one individual Suppressive Person, when the fate of the
entire Universe is at stake?
Now when you read Keeping Scientology Working you truly understand what LRH
meant when he said: "The whole agonized future of this planet, every man,
woman and child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of
years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology."
Now it is perfectly clear to you why LRH set up the Guardian's Office, now
known as the Office of Special Affairs, and said "The goal of the Department
is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state
of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by high
level ability to control and in its absence by low level ability to overwhelm.
Introvert such agencies. Control such agencies. Scientology is the only game
on Earth where everybody wins. There is no overt [meaning crime] in bringing
good order."
This is what goes on in the mind of a high-level Scientologist.
Many people have been auditing on OT 7, alone in a room for hours every day,
auditing out their BTs, for as long as fifteen years. It is impossible to
imagine what this can do to someone's state of mind. Indeed, it is my belief
that this auditing of thousands upon thousands of imagined disembodied
creatures, this picking apart of the very fabric of one's reality as I
described above, can bring about a state of such acute dissociation that it
can induce a kind of psychosis of irresponsibility.
I have never experienced anything like the ruthlessness of Scientology since
they have labeled me and the people I work with Enemies of Scientology. We are
now targets of their Fair Game policies, which instruct them in how to go
about destroying our reputations, our sanity, and our lives. It is like being
pursued by the Terminator. These people will never stop their attempts to
destroy us.
But it begins to make sense to me when I realize that through the process of
auditing as I have described, these people have been stripped of all sense of
themselves; they have lost all sense of responsibility - indeed, all contact
with their own emotions, their own thoughts, even their own hopes and
aspirations. They have become addicted to the irresponsibility that comes with
living a fantasy. They have truly come to believe in a bizarre future, in
which the ultimate goal is a Scientology world, a world in which everyone who
disagrees with Scientology will be done away with, quietly and without sorrow.
This is not a world in which I want to live.
Sparky
<stacy...@mciworld.com> wrote:
Thanks so very much for this post. I've never been involved with
Scientology, and your post really gave me some idea of what it must be
like to go through the grades of Scientology auditing. I'm glad you
got through it with your brain still intact. Very weird stuff indeed!
Perry Scott <perryATezlinkDOTcom>
1) auditing -> false memory syndrome
2) FSM -> enlightenment/euphoria
however,
3) FSM -> isolation from society
then
4) FSM -> further disconnection from reality, as the Scn'ist chases BTs at
the OT level, and becomes further trapped within Scn.
VWD, Stacy. I know this stuff, but I haven't seen it put together quite
like this.
In article <fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com>, Stacy says...
[snipped for bandwidth]
Perry Scott, SP 4.3, ScienoSitter 3X + ISP + 2 words
Co$ Escapee
Perry Scott <perryATezlinkDOTcom>
In article <8o9qms8daosukpjhb...@4ax.com>, Dobe says...
>
>Thank you for posting this, Stacy. Very useful information. Someone
>web this Quick!
>
>DM
This will be webbed/mirrored tonight at:
http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/stacy.htm
yduzitmatter
those of
us who have never experienced it first hand. It sounds scary to read it all
at once but
I am sure going through it it step by step is worse. Your courage in
confronting this
evil cult is to be commended.
K
Stacy Brooks <stacy...@mciworld.com> wrote in message
news:fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com...
Podkayne1
<perryATezlinkDOTcom> <Perry_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Very informative, Stacy. Thanks.
>
>
> In article <8o9qms8daosukpjhb...@4ax.com>, Dobe says...
> >
> >Thank you for posting this, Stacy. Very useful information. Someone
> >web this Quick!
> >
> >DM
>
> This will be webbed/mirrored tonight at:
>
> http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/stacy.htm
It's one thing for me to glibly say "it's a bait-and-switch", it's
another to see how it actually happens.
I'm hanging on to this URL for the next time I say "bait-and-switch"
--
John Travolta thinks Scientology is wonderful.
But then, he thinks the "Battlefield Earth" movie is wonderful too.
Think about it.
"You have angered the hedgehog, and now you must pay!"
Dobe R Mann
web this Quick!
DM
Dobe R Mann
SP4 Tone 1.95
_____________________________________________
"Look netizens! Another person just read
about the Co$, Xenu, Elron and the rest of
the rot." "Watch now! .... look!
... oooohhh there they go folks!
Another ARSCC(wdne) member."
Read www.xenu.net
See www.xenutv.com
_____________________________________________
INCIDENT 4
LOUD SNAP (Bones breaking)
CHEVROLETS COME OUT
BURN RUBBER
FISHTAIL RIGHT
DO U-TURN
STALL
FLAT TIRE (No motion)
BLOWS HORN
BLOWS MISCAVIGE
CRASH
StveJ
>From: Stacy Brooks stacy...@mciworld.com
>Date: Mer 12 juil 2000 4:09 PM
>Message-id: <fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com>
>
>We get calls nearly every day here at the LMT from people who are having
>doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a Scientologist.
Oh yes; that happens. Good for you.
Now, back to reality.
One of the great advantages of the real Scientology, as opposed to the
Stacytology relayed here, is that there is a basis in fact, and that fact is
transmitted in a singular way, without variance. And, thankfully, that is
protected so that someone trained a hundred years from now in Hungarian will be
able to help people with the same flourish as we help people now.
There are so many statements in error in just the first few paragraphs that I
will only debunk a few.
For example, "even the highest trained auditor studies nothing but L. Ron
Hubbard's writings and is forbidden to study anything else."
Not the case Stace. I am not forbidden, no one is forbidden by some ‘them’
in Scientology, from studying whatever we want. I can’t see the benefit of
learning how to evaluate and invalidate as some of my psychotherapist friends
do, I know there is no benefit to drugging people into a stupor as the shrinks
do, but if I wanted to put more time into that, I would not be forbidden.
The girl from the Lerma/Minton Therapy group says it is "…a great disservice
by insisting "the Tech" works on everyone in exactly the same way and that if
they are not having gains it means there is something wrong with them. I don't
think that's true."
At least three mis-statements in one sentence…
1) it is not insisted that The Tech works on everyone in exactly the same way.
That is not even insinuated and to say it is true shows how little you
understand, how you were able to misunderstand how words work to express exact
ideas,
2) "...something wrong with them...", if you understood the basic theory about
why LRH insisted there was no advantage to blame, shame or regret, you would
know that your fabrication makes no sense and
3) people do make gains, all the time, all over the world. I’d venture to
guess that even you did before you let some out list or unethical behaviour get
in your way.
Enough dealing with your sad delusions. Next you’ll be telling us you were
forced to sell kool-aid to some congressman and forced to sell stocks to
crippled grandmothers.
We have seen your type come, try to swindle and go, but given the right amends
project, there is always a chance you will be accepted back.
Good luck
Steve
Tommy
>
> >Subject: My perspective on auditing
> >From: Stacy Brooks stacy...@mciworld.com
> >Date: Mer 12 juil 2000 4:09 PM
> >Message-id: <fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com>
> >
> >doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a Scientologist.
>
>
Yes - good for her, and good for the rondriods that throw their
programing like a cheap retread throws rubber.
> Enough dealing with your sad delusions. Next you’ll be telling us you were
> forced to sell kool-aid to some congressman and forced to sell stocks to
> crippled grandmothers.
No, asswipe, she was made to run around a pole in the desert heat
because she told Miscavige that she wouldn't do a particularly shitty
thing that he ordered her to do.
>
> We have seen your type come, try to swindle and go, but given the right amends
> project, there is always a chance you will be accepted back.
Now, THAT's funny!
Don't worry, St. Vej, the Lisa McPherson Trust will be there for you
when you finally decide to get out.
--
L.Ron Hubbard on trying to get $cientology declared a religion for tax
purposes:
"I await your reaction on the religion angle. In my opinion,
we couldn't get worse public opinion than we have had or have less
customers with what we've got to sell. A religious charter would be
necessary in Pennsylvania or NJ to make it stick. But I sure could
make it stick."
Best Regards,
Ron
Kaeli
members would have difficulty leaving the CoS to someone who hasn't been in the
CoS before and doesn't understand why exactly they don't leave.
Stacy Brooks wrote:
--
Kaeli A.
(KoX)
ka...@klis.com
"In this fateful hour, all heaven with its power, the sun with its brightness, the
snow with its whiteness, the fire with all the strength it hath, the lightning
with its rapid wrath, the winds with their swiftness, the sea with its deepness,
the rocks with its starkness, All these I place, Between myself and the powers of
darkness."
Madeline L'Engle, "A Swiftly Twilting Planet"
yertletheturtle
I particularly like the way you described the OT levels.
Like many, however, I still do see benefit in some of the basics
of auditing, but am forced to resolve the paradox of how there
can be such good in a method that evolved into a system like
scientology has become.
Personally, I do feel that the basic ideas of using TR's and
a group of questions like the grades and flows can be very
helpful to a person. If they are done in a non-suppressive
or evaluative environment which is not found in the "church"
today.
Maybe it took a hard-nosed egotistical maniac (only one theory)
to put together this information in this way.
What is missing is objective evaluation and further research to
put scientology back in it's place as a continuation of all science.
And to eliminate the nonsense and cult-like additives.
There is some work and studies being done by the TIR (Traumatic
Incident Reduction) group, but
this is only the beginning.
Check out their web-site:
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Sparky
>>Subject: My perspective on auditing
>>From: Stacy Brooks stacy...@mciworld.com
>>Date: Mer 12 juil 2000 4:09 PM
>>Message-id: <fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com>
>>
>>We get calls nearly every day here at the LMT from people who are having
>>doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a Scientologist.
>
>Oh yes; that happens. Good for you.
>
>Now, back to reality.
>
>One of the great advantages of the real Scientology, as opposed to the
>Stacytology relayed here, is that there is a basis in fact, and that fact is
>transmitted in a singular way, without variance. And, thankfully, that is
>protected so that someone trained a hundred years from now in Hungarian will be
>able to help people with the same flourish as we help people now.
>
You say that real Scientology has a basis in fact. Then you say 'that
fact is transmitted in a singular way without variance'.
First .... what exactly do you mean?
1. Scientology has a basis in fact and you transmit the "fact" that it
is based on fact
.................or..........................
2. That there is only one fact that is the basis of all Scientology.
Second.... You have asserted that Scientology is factual.
1. What exactly is/are these fact(s) that you refer to?
2. Do you mean ALL of Scientology is based on fact? (i.e. History of
Man, Xenu, body thetans, etc?)
Please do not assume I am being hostile in asking these questions.
They are legitimate questions given your assertions of Scientology's
basis in fact.
Will you try to answer the questions?
JimDBB
JimDBB
>Message-id: <fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com>
>We get calls nearly every day here at the LMT from people who are having
>doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a Scientologist.
>Without question, the subject they ask me about most often is the tech of
>auditing. What do I think about the Tech? Do I think it works?
Truly a fantastic post, Stacy. An instant classic. A lot ot thought went into
this and we thank you. You have articulated this just right. I won't requote
the whole thing here.
I would Ask that you repost this periodically.
JIMDBB
Anti Magoo
closing remarks were heart felt.
Thanks,
A G
--------------
Memory: On a 7/9/00 post to a topic re: "Letter to Scientology Public
Relations," Mistmagoo55 confirms in writing that TRUTH is found on
www.parishioners.org >>> BEWARE!!!!
--------------
Don't want your body parts eaten by a UFO cult leader? Protect yourself
& GO TO --->
http://www.geocities.com/spacecootie/
Monica Pignotti
it is my opinion that you have captured this bizarre experience of
going up the bridge that a handfull of us have in common better than I
would have ever thought possible. I hope that current Scientologists
will read this because deep down, each one of them knows that this is
what is going on. The message that we have to keep trying to get
across is that there is a way out of this unreal nightmare and that
they don't have to stay trapped in a world that becomes increasingly
more bizarre, the further one progresses on the bridge (or maybe I
should say regresses). For those of you who have not yet reached the
upper levels, I urge you to read this to see what is in store for you
if you continue and to ask yourselves if this is the kind of world you
wanted and expected when you began in Scientology. If it isn't, then
realize that you do have a choice and that there is life after
Scientology. If you take some time out and give thoughtful
consideration to Stacy's words, you'll save yourself from having to go
through what we went through and that is what makes speaking out worth
while.
Monica Pignotti
In article <fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com>,
--
Monica Pignotti
Kng Peter
I think your write up and description of OT 7 is pretty good. There's not a
lot to add, because it's a real simple level. As a former OT 7 there are a
couple of comments I could add:
The only tricky parts auditing OT7 come in when you can't "blow" a BT--i.e.
make some random thought you've contacted disappear. Then you can use a
multitude of procedures.
For example, you can use the old "thetan hand" to fling them off, you can cut a
cord that's holding the "BT" (thought), or if the "BT" is "stuck on the track"
you can move it on the track and he'll "blow." (Of course, they don't really
"blow, because you can't blow off pieces of your mind--it's actually a silly
idea when you think about it--but you can make a thought disappear for awhile,
and that's what you are really doing.)
While you are on OT7, all these "BT's" seem quite real to you. This is
because, at least in my case, these "BT's" or thoughts seem to be completely
foreign. They aren't something you are "making up," but are random, surprising
thoughts--like halucinations or acid trips.
Unlike OT5, there are no prepared lists of questions on OT7, you just look
around and find a BT or cluster and audit it. As a result, it violates the
basic idea of auditing--that you are to look for and audit only "charged"
areas, i.e. what people consider to be their problems. (I suppose the theory
would be that "BT's" are all charged, but since you get very little TA (a
measure of "charge") running OT7, you are generally just looking around and
trying to handle a bunch of random thoughts.)
You just pick up anything that reads and run with it--and as a result it is
endless.
The mind has, apparently, an ability to auto-generate endless fragments of
thought.
My guess is that the only people who finish OT7 are the ones who, for awhile,
have so numbed their mind by this constant self-hypnosis that they have
temporarily anesthisized the part of the mind that generates these random
thoughts. I suspect this would also mean that they have destroyed their
capability to create--because (based on my own experience) a lot of creativity
comes from random thoughts that just seem to pop into your head.
If this is true, then what it means is that an OT7 has numbed his own ability
to create, and thus--most surely--destoryed his own ability to debunk Hubbard.
The interesting thing is that the real effect of OT7 is to scramble up the mind
in exactly the same manner as psychotropic drugs. You are no longer troubled
because your mind has been numbed, not because you have solved any particular
problem.
Anyway, all I can say is that personally, my mind is much clearer since I
stopped auditing OT7. I'm afraid that the real road to freedom consists of
confronting your own problems, and doing things in the real world, and not
sitting around turning your mind into mush with a lot of screwball Science
Fiction.
Peter Alexander
Former OT7
Mike O'Connor
kngp...@aol.com (Kng Peter) wrote:
>While you are on OT7, all these "BT's" seem quite real to you.
OK. You are a thetan. Each of the BTs are also thetans - beings no
better or worse than you are, though perhaps the poor things got a bit
more zapped by implants than you. They could have been you next door
neighbor back on Coltice the day before you both were kidnapped and
brought here.
You are one thetan. Each BT is one thetan. A victim of implant
incidents, just like you.
Now, when you do auditing, over a lifetime hundreds, thousands of your
fellow thetans are cast off and discarded. Never to be thought about
again. Never to be brought to TOTAL FREEDOM or anything like it.
So isn't there a big conflict? Scientology brings TOTAL FREEDOM to 6
billion thetans, but at the cost of casting off and discarding many
hundreds of billion more thetans that no one seems to want to save or
care about.
--
SCIENTOLOGY IS SECRETLY A UFO CULT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Mike O'Connor <mi...@leptonicsystems.com>
<http://www.leptonicsystems.com>
Bob Minton
Peter, could it be the remnants of your Scieno/Psych/CCHR phobias kicking in to
cause you to make what I consider to be such an uninformed statements on the
effects of psychtropic drugs? Pyschotropic drugs neither "scramble up the mind"
or make someone "no longer troubled." No doubt Diane Richardson will educate us
further. :-)
>Anyway, all I can say is that personally, my mind is much clearer since I
>stopped auditing OT7. I'm afraid that the real road to freedom consists of
>confronting your own problems, and doing things in the real world, and not
>sitting around turning your mind into mush with a lot of screwball Science
>Fiction.
Amen!
Bob Minton
Stacy Brooks
>>Subject: My perspective on auditing
>>From: Stacy Brooks stacy...@mciworld.com
>>Date: 7/12/00 6:09 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com>
>
>>We get calls nearly every day here at the LMT from people who are having
>>doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a Scientologist.
>>Without question, the subject they ask me about most often is the tech of
>>auditing. What do I think about the Tech? Do I think it works?
>
>Truly a fantastic post, Stacy. An instant classic. A lot ot thought went into
>this and we thank you. You have articulated this just right. I won't requote
>the whole thing here.
>
>I would Ask that you repost this periodically.
>
Thanks, Jim. It will be on the lisatrust.net website shortly.
Stacy
realpch
saving up the good stuff. Thank you so much for this carefully written
and most informative post.
Peach
realpch
[snip]
>
> We have seen your type come, try to swindle and go, but given the right amends
> project, there is always a chance you will be accepted back.
>
> Steve
You actually believe that Ms. Brooks swindled the Church of Scientology?
I would say that the swindle was all in the other direction.
Oh yes, I can readily believe that the Church of Scientology cannot wait
to assign an amends project to Ms. Stacy Brooks.
Peach
Dobe R Mann
<mi...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote:
>In article <20000713160314...@ng-bg1.aol.com>,
>kngp...@aol.com (Kng Peter) wrote:
>
>>While you are on OT7, all these "BT's" seem quite real to you.
>
>OK. You are a thetan. Each of the BTs are also thetans - beings no
>better or worse than you are, though perhaps the poor things got a bit
>more zapped by implants than you. They could have been you next door
>neighbor back on Coltice the day before you both were kidnapped and
>brought here.
>
>You are one thetan. Each BT is one thetan. A victim of implant
>incidents, just like you.
>
>Now, when you do auditing, over a lifetime hundreds, thousands of your
>fellow thetans are cast off and discarded. Never to be thought about
>again. Never to be brought to TOTAL FREEDOM or anything like it.
>
>So isn't there a big conflict? Scientology brings TOTAL FREEDOM to 6
>billion thetans, but at the cost of casting off and discarding many
>hundreds of billion more thetans that no one seems to want to save or
>care about.
Perhaps the ARSCC(wdne) Home for Rejected Whole-Track Body Theatans?
Eric Bohlman
: While you are on OT7, all these "BT's" seem quite real to you. This is
: because, at least in my case, these "BT's" or thoughts seem to be completely
: foreign. They aren't something you are "making up," but are random, surprising
: thoughts--like halucinations or acid trips.
Interesting. I remember hearing somewhere that the "voices" that many
schizophrenics claim to hear are actually their own (often delusional)
thoughts, but they've lost the ability to recognize that they're their
own thoughts and not something coming from outside.
: The mind has, apparently, an ability to auto-generate endless fragments of
: thought.
In fact, if people are put in a controlled environment where nobody is
allowed to challenge anything they say (such as some poorly-organized
recovery groups), they will often come up with astoundingly delusional
ideas. I've come to believe that the main function of our sense of humor
is enabling us to "weed out" delusional ideations before they "take root."
People with rigid delusions are usually humorless. Note that OTII has
always struck me as an exercise in suppressing one's ability to recognize
absurdity.
Eric Bohlman
: On 13 Jul 2000 20:03:14 GMT, kngp...@aol.com (Kng Peter) wrote:
: >The interesting thing is that the real effect of OT7 is to scramble up the mind
: >in exactly the same manner as psychotropic drugs. You are no longer troubled
: >because your mind has been numbed, not because you have solved any particular
: >problem.
:
: Peter, could it be the remnants of your Scieno/Psych/CCHR phobias kicking in to
: cause you to make what I consider to be such an uninformed statements on the
: effects of psychtropic drugs? Pyschotropic drugs neither "scramble up the mind"
: or make someone "no longer troubled." No doubt Diane Richardson will educate us
: further. :-)
"Psychotropic drugs" is such a broad category that Peter could be
referring to those people who "self-medicate" by using street drugs; the
"mind numbing" is exactly what a lot of chronic heroin users describe.
Dave Bird
Hash: SHA1
In article<fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com>, Stacy Brooks
<stacy...@mciworld.com> writes:
>We get calls nearly every day here at the LMT from people who are having
>doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a Scientologist.
>Without question, the subject they ask me about most often is the tech of
>auditing. What do I think about the Tech? Do I think it works?
>
>When anyone calls me for advice about whether auditing is beneficial or
>harmful, I always preface my response by saying that there have never been any
>clinical studies done to determine the effects of auditing. I have my
>opinions, but my opinions are based purely on my own experience and nothing
>else. Certainly they are not based on any scientific evidence, because there
>isn't any. Hubbard never did any scientific testing, and no one else ever has
>either. The only available information is purely anecdotal. Ten Scientologists
>could write about their experiences in auditing and they would all have
>totally different perspectives, I am sure.
>
>What I have to say here is my opinion.
That article is definitely a keeper. The only thing you might usefully
add is how the early OT levels were created.... reputedly because
someone regged for them before they had really been written.
To me there is an obvious bodge where OT1 "go outside and spot the dog"
was scribbled down on one sheet of paper, OT2 an extensive rewrite of
the clearing course, and OT3 the wall of space-cooties, were probably
all set down at one particular time (around 1967?).
The other thing is that what OT3 clearly describes is parasitosis:
a syndrome sometimes found in "ordinary" madness, but more often
in psychosis induced by long mis-use of amphetamines or crack,
where the victim believes there are horrible creatures crawling
on or under his skin.
- -- . : : ,; . : ' ___.
uno, due, tre, FUEGO! .:. .:. .:': :' .:':' :. . : (") #oH|
' :' : :' : .::. H_ ~~~|
< > __ ,;;,. \\::// R_) |
'-|"""(") {__}::===== ....'''' ' ' ' ___..\||/....L\. ...|
____||--|_'--/__\___ '' .--''':::::::::::::::::::::
\ / /////////////S.Coronado/////
;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^
LRon Hubbard is shelled by goats in hell. www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/
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Dave Bird
Hash: SHA1
In article<20000713050012...@ng-mb1.aol.com>, StveJ writes:
>>Subject: My perspective on auditing
>>From: Stacy Brooks stacy...@mciworld.com
>>Date: Mer 12 juil 2000 4:09 PM
>>Message-id: <fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com>
>>
>>We get calls nearly every day here at the LMT from people who are having
>>doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a Scientologist.
>
>Oh yes; that happens. Good for you.
I suspect it does happen, and I could get a list of names and phone
numbers (but you couldn't to go round & harass them or kill their pets)
>
>Now, back to reality.
Erm, hang on, "you mean what's true is true for you" and no doubt
it is true in here private reality i.e. imagination. But... you
don't acknowledge objective reality do you?
Incidentally you don't write like the usual StoodJe account operators,
they are idiots; you sound more like the guy who signs as Steven Jones.
>
>One of the great advantages of the real Scientology, as opposed to the
>Stacytology relayed here, is that there is a basis in fact, and that fact is
>transmitted in a singular way, without variance.
Whoah there, Neddy. "Fact (noun), an incident which truly did occur
in objective reality and therefore can be confirmed on the record
of evidence: 'it is a fact that it rained on Thursday and I have
photographs to prove it.' Sometimes also used to mean a law of
nature, an observed way how incidents truly do occur in objective
reality which therefore can be confirmed by objective experiment:
'it is a law of nature that dropped objects, on earth, fall downward
to the ground'."
>And, thankfully, that is
>protected so that someone trained a hundred years from now in Hungarian will be
>able to help people with the same flourish as we help people now.
>
>There are so many statements in error in just the first few paragraphs that I
>will only debunk a few.
>
>For example, "even the highest trained auditor studies nothing but L. Ron
>Hubbard's writings and is forbidden to study anything else."
>Not the case Stace. I am not forbidden, no one is forbidden by some ‘them’
>in Scientology, from studying whatever we want. I can’t see the benefit of
>learning how to evaluate and invalidate as some of my psychotherapist friends
>do, I know there is no benefit to drugging people into a stupor as the shrinks
>do, but if I wanted to put more time into that, I would not be forbidden.
Hairsplitting. While they can read about it, how would their case
supervisor react if they combined T.A. procedures or doses of prozac
with the auditing they applied to their pre-clears? You know what she
means, you are just playing stupid by quibbling with the literal words.
(You are Rebecca Hartong and I claim my five pounds).
>
>The girl from the Lerma/Minton Therapy group says it is "…a great disservice
>by insisting "the Tech" works on everyone in exactly the same way and that if
>they are not having gains it means there is something wrong with them. I don't
>think that's true."
>At least three mis-statements in one sentence…
>1) it is not insisted that The Tech works on everyone in exactly the same way.
>That is not even insinuated and to say it is true shows how little you
>understand, how you were able to misunderstand how words work to express exact
>ideas,
>2) "...something wrong with them...", if you understood the basic theory about
>why LRH insisted there was no advantage to blame, shame or regret, you would
>know that your fabrication makes no sense and
More hair-slitting. "Standard tech, standardly applied" is supposed to
be the solution for everyone.... if it does not work, then you always
address the difficulties in them, not vary or abandon Hubbard tech.
>3) people do make gains, all the time, all over the world. I’d venture to
>guess that even you did before you let some out list or unethical behaviour get
>in your way.
>
>Enough dealing with your sad delusions. Next you’ll be telling us you were
>forced to sell kool-aid to some congressman and forced to sell stocks to
>crippled grandmothers.
>
>We have seen your type come, try to swindle and go, but given the right amends
>project, there is always a chance you will be accepted back.
Uhunh. And if you make the right amends we will let you come out of
your shell and return to the human race. Just ring that LMT number.
Heck, maybe you're predecessor did and that's how you got the "hat"....
>
>Good luck
>Steve
>
- -- . : : ,; . : ' ___.
uno, due, tre, FUEGO! .:. .:. .:': :' .:':' :. . : (") #oH|
' :' : :' : .::. H_ ~~~|
< > __ ,;;,. \\::// R_) |
'-|"""(") {__}::===== ....'''' ' ' ' ___..\||/....L\. ...|
____||--|_'--/__\___ '' .--''':::::::::::::::::::::
\ / /////////////S.Coronado/////
;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^
LRon Hubbard is shelled by goats in hell. www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/
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Beverly Rice
I would like to you please be a shining example of how
LRH/Co$ tech can make a being "more able" to be honest
and to confront.
What are LRH/Co$ teachings regarding the ~true~ cause
of the thetan's aberrations . . .
will you confront, or hide regarding the fact that it
revolves around SPACE OPERA . . . Xenu and Incident II
and Body Thetans . . .
with the residual Implants, GPS's and Incidents that
~must~ be run?
> We have seen your type come, try to swindle and go,
The only swindle going on is the Co$'s "Bait and Switch"
fraud, taking money from people for one thing that is
promised to change them and make them ~clear~ . . .
only to find out that product is ~NOT~ what was necessary
to "free" them up and they must proceed "Up The Bridge of
Lies" through "The Wall of Fire" where they find out the
~TRUE~ product is totally different than what was originally
stated.
Pure "Bait and Switch".
You and the organization are the only "swindlers" around
here.
But that's okay . . .
becaue Stacey's post explained totally how you are stuck
at the point you are, and why you can't get out of it.
ARC for hoping StveJ be honest regarding Body Thetans,
and waiting to take it from there,
Beverly
Monica Pignotti
>look around and find a BT or cluster and audit it. As a result, it
>violates the basic idea of auditing--that you are to look for and
>audit only "charged" areas, i.e. what people consider to be their
>problems. (I suppose the theory would be that "BT's" are all charged,
>but since you get very little TA (a measure of "charge") running OT7,
>you are generally just looking around and trying to handle a bunch of
>random thoughts.)
>You just pick up anything that reads and run with it--and as a result
>it is endless.
That's and interesting point I didn't know about, since I did the old
OT7, which was completely different from the current NOTS OT7. Of
course, according to standard tech, if something reads on the e-meter
that is an indication that there is charge on it but I see your point
about the aimless wandering around.
>The mind has, apparently, an ability to auto-generate endless
>fragments of thought.
>
>My guess is that the only people who finish OT7 are the ones who, for
>awhile, have so numbed their mind by this constant self-hypnosis that
>they have temporarily anesthisized the part of the mind that generates
>these random thoughts. I suspect this would also mean that they have
>destroyed their capability to create--because (based on my own
>experience) a lot of creativity comes from random thoughts that just
>seem to pop into your head.
That's very true. I think it puts a person into a very dissociative,
hypnotic state. Also, since BTs are considered actual beings, I think
what this is doing, is dissociating and then killing off parts of the
person's personality. There are other forms of psychotherapy (gestalt
therapy, transactional analysis, or NLP, for instance), that seek to
integrate different "parts" of a person that they might have previously
dissociated from and this makes the person more whole. OT3 and above,
especially NOTS, appears to do just the opposite, breaking the self
into hundreds of fragments and then disgarding them until nothing is
left but a Scientologist.
>If this is true, then what it means is that an OT7 has numbed his own
>ability to create, and thus--most surely--destoryed his own ability to
>debunk Hubbard.
I agree. I could even see some of that happening with OT3, which was
the only "BT" level in existence at the time I did the OT levels.
>The interesting thing is that the real effect of OT7 is to scramble up
>the mind in exactly the same manner as psychotropic drugs. You are no
>longer troubled because your mind has been numbed, not because you
>have solved any particular problem.
It's a frightening scenario, but most likely true from what I've
observed.
>Anyway, all I can say is that personally, my mind is much clearer
>since I stopped auditing OT7. I'm afraid that the real road to
>freedom consists of confronting your own problems, and doing things in
>the real world, and not sitting around turning your mind into mush
>with a lot of screwball Science Fiction.
Good for you! I'm glad to hear you broke free of it. There are some
who haven't been so lucky and have ended up in psychosis as a result.
Monica Pignotti
eboh...@netcom.com (Eric Bohlman) wrote:
> Bob Minton (b...@minton.org) wrote:
> : On 13 Jul 2000 20:03:14 GMT, kngp...@aol.com (Kng Peter) wrote:
scramble up the mind
> : >in exactly the same manner as psychotropic drugs. You are no
longer troubled
> : >because your mind has been numbed, not because you have solved any
particular
> : >problem.
> : Peter, could it be the remnants of your Scieno/Psych/CCHR phobias
kicking in to
> : cause you to make what I consider to be such an uninformed
statements on the
> : effects of psychtropic drugs? Pyschotropic drugs neither "scramble
up the mind"
> : or make someone "no longer troubled." No doubt Diane Richardson
will educate us
> : further. :-)
>
> "Psychotropic drugs" is such a broad category that Peter could be
> referring to those people who "self-medicate" by using street drugs;
the
> "mind numbing" is exactly what a lot of chronic heroin users describe.
It's possible he meant to say "psychadelic" drugs, like LSD, which
could be said to "scramble the mind".
PaTrIcK DaRcY
having
> doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a
Scientologist.
of
> auditing. What do I think about the Tech? Do I think it works?
>
> When anyone calls me for advice about whether auditing is beneficial
or
> harmful, I always preface my response by saying that there have never
been any
> clinical studies done to determine the effects of auditing. I have my
> opinions, but my opinions are based purely on my own experience and
nothing
> else. Certainly they are not based on any scientific evidence, because
there
> isn't any. Hubbard never did any scientific testing, and no one else
ever has
> either. The only available information is purely anecdotal. Ten
Scientologists
> could write about their experiences in auditing and they would all
have
> totally different perspectives, I am sure.
>
> What I have to say here is my opinion.
>
that "the
> Tech" works on everyone in exactly the same way and that if they are
not
> having gains it means there is something wrong with them. I don't
think that's
Grades
> auditing, and I won't dispute that. But many others have told me it
didn't
> work for them. I don't dispute that either.
>
> Auditing, at the lower levels where it is simple regression therapy
such as
> Life Repair, Self-Analysis Lists or Grades, may be beneficial for some
people.
> Scientology auditors have no formal education to prepare them as
therapists -
writings
be
> beneficial, just as Transactional analysis or Jungian psychotherapy
can be
> beneficial for some people. Conversely, if a person gets involved in a
form of
> therapy that is not right for them, it won't help them and may even
make them
> worse.
this posting describes landmark education exactly so far
> information. I remember feeling completely numb and making sure to
--
HEY NOW DINT U MAMMA TEACH U ANYTHING
DON HENLEY
Bob Minton
>Excellent post! As someone who has also been through this experience,
>it is my opinion that you have captured this bizarre experience of
>going up the bridge that a handfull of us have in common better than I
>would have ever thought possible. I hope that current Scientologists
>will read this because deep down, each one of them knows that this is
>what is going on. The message that we have to keep trying to get
>across is that there is a way out of this unreal nightmare and that
>they don't have to stay trapped in a world that becomes increasingly
>more bizarre, the further one progresses on the bridge (or maybe I
>should say regresses). For those of you who have not yet reached the
>upper levels, I urge you to read this to see what is in store for you
>if you continue and to ask yourselves if this is the kind of world you
>wanted and expected when you began in Scientology. If it isn't, then
>realize that you do have a choice and that there is life after
>Scientology. If you take some time out and give thoughtful
>consideration to Stacy's words, you'll save yourself from having to go
>through what we went through and that is what makes speaking out worth
>while.
>
Monica, yours is truly a thoughtful response to Stacy's post.
I trust you have now accepted "the addiction to irresponsibility" concept that I
referred to in a follow-up post on February 26th which you were then quick to
poo-poo.
This addiction to irresponsibility that Scientology breeds in its adherents is
an extremely important concept for all of us to understand. Stacy sums it up
brilliantly with this part of her post:
>But it begins to make sense to me when I realize that through the process of
>auditing as I have described, these people have been stripped of all sense of
>themselves;
(just wait for a post about O/W write-ups out of LMT, Lisa's in particular, to
understand how naked and desolate a human being becomes in Scientology)
>they have lost all sense of responsibility - indeed, all contact
>with their own emotions, their own thoughts, even their own hopes and
>aspirations. They have become addicted to the irresponsibility that comes with
>living a fantasy. They have truly come to believe in a bizarre future, in
>which the ultimate goal is a Scientology world, a world in which everyone who
>disagrees with Scientology will be done away with, quietly and without sorrow.
Peter Alexander, in this thread, said that Scientology stifles creativity. In
fact Scientology makes the the creative, less creative; the able, less able;
the responsible less responsible. In fact, Scientology is a failure at
everything it promises judging by the FACT that of the millions Scientology says
have tried it, only a 100-200,000 adherents of Scientology exists in the world
today.
Critics of Scientology believe in giving everyone choices and a chance to be
creative by writing their own script for their own lives. If an individuals
critical thinking skills have not been fully suspended, their self-directed
script will always be incompatible with the STANDARD script written by Hubbard.
Therefore, by definition Scientology must vehemently oppose creativity, ability,
responsiblity, freedom and those who espouse them.
Unfortunately the Scientology script is like a serial where the PCs
accomplishments are short lived because there’s always another BT to slay.
Oddly enough, people in the Scientology trap vehemently fight to stay in it
for as long as it takes to get the bait, or, failing that, as long as it
takes to become convinced that getting the bait is a fantasy. The only thing
that a Scientologist can truly receive in the Church of Scientology is a future
of absolute slavery to Hubbard's failed script.
Monica, I think we are together as critics in exposing Scientology for what it
is---hatred of human ability in a glossy package that promises total freedom and
delivers abject slavery.
Like Stacy said, Scientology's is not a world in which I want to live.
Bob Minton
Bob Minton
>Bob Minton (b...@minton.org) wrote:
>: On 13 Jul 2000 20:03:14 GMT, kngp...@aol.com (Kng Peter) wrote:
>: >The interesting thing is that the real effect of OT7 is to scramble up the mind
>: >in exactly the same manner as psychotropic drugs. You are no longer troubled
>: >because your mind has been numbed, not because you have solved any particular
>: >problem.
>:
>: Peter, could it be the remnants of your Scieno/Psych/CCHR phobias kicking in to
>: cause you to make what I consider to be such an uninformed statements on the
>: effects of psychtropic drugs? Pyschotropic drugs neither "scramble up the mind"
>: or make someone "no longer troubled." No doubt Diane Richardson will educate us
>: further. :-)
>
>"Psychotropic drugs" is such a broad category that Peter could be
>referring to those people who "self-medicate" by using street drugs; the
>"mind numbing" is exactly what a lot of chronic heroin users describe.
I would have thought that the more correct term for the type drugs you have
described would be "hallucinogenic drugs". But, I'm no expert. :-)
Bob Minton
Starshadow
Stacy Brooks <stacy...@mciworld.com> wrote in message
news:fhupmsk6kh1jtoovc...@4ax.com...
(snip for brevity)
Wow.
With this post, and putting together what I'm reading of what Lisa
McPherson went through, I'm getting a picture that I've never had before.
I'm understanding a lot more.
It's frightening, in many ways.
Thanks, Stacy.
I gotta digest this one.
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow (SP4, KoX) (remove lovesxenu to reply)
"Feminism--the radical notion that women are people, too"
Thomas J Best
realpch <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message news:396E3EFD...@aol.com...
> Ah, we haven't had any long posts from you lately, I guess you were
> saving up the good stuff. Thank you so much for this carefully written
> and most informative post.
> Peach
>
> Stacy Brooks wrote:
> >
> > We get calls nearly every day here at the LMT from people who are having
> > doubts about whether or not they should continue to be a Scientologist.
> > Without question, the subject they ask me about most often is the tech
of
> > auditing. What do I think about the Tech? Do I think it works?
> >
> > When anyone calls me for advice about whether auditing is beneficial or
> > harmful, I always preface my response by saying that there have never
been any
> > clinical studies done to determine the effects of auditing.
'keeper'.)
However, there was at least one study done, during the early days of
Dianetics, to
determine whether the claims of enhanced learning abilities and IQ could be
proven.
I don't have the reference immediately to hand (I've just upgraded, and all
my old
files are on the zipdrive downstairs), but my recall is that three sizeable
groups
were put through a training regimen of some weeks. One group was to employ
'Dianetics' techniques, another guided by a qualified trainer, and the third
control
group left to get on with it. The conclusion was that 'Dianetics' techniques
had no
measurable impact upon learning abilities. I'll see if I can dredge up the
refs.
thanx again for a re-readable, thought-provoking contribution.
tam
Kng Peter
I should amend my post to say that OT7 auditing has the effect of scrambling up
the mind the way Scientology SAYS psychotropic drugs do. Whether the drugs do
this or not is another matter--one with which I have no personal experience.
Peter
Chris Sutor
: Perhaps the ARSCC(wdne) Home for Rejected Whole-Track Body Theatans?
What a concept! You could sell them like Ant Farms. A little windowed
world for cast-off BTs to live in comfortably. :)
Use bright styrene plastic for the bases, and you may have this year's hot
Christmas gift... at least in Clearwater.
Oh, wait.. if everything made of BT's, then the ant farm would be, and so
would the base - not to mention the colored gravel inside.
But then, so is the money. :) Maybe you can sue that as a sales tool..
"Blow a few BT's on THIS!"
--
COBALTatTIGERDENdotCOM I'd really like a New World Order, but
----==============---- I can only afford a slightly used one.
now with 10% real *****************************************
fruit juice! Don't blame me, I voted for Richard Dangerous
Chris Sutor
: In fact, if people are put in a controlled environment where nobody is
: allowed to challenge anything they say (such as some poorly-organized
: recovery groups), they will often come up with astoundingly delusional
: ideas.
...like trying to buy the elephant man's skeleton as a room decoration, or
change their name from "Prince" to an unintelligible squiggle.
Such is the danger of the celebrity enterage... maybe that's why the cult
goes after celebs. They've already lost contact with reality.
: I've come to believe that the main function of our sense of humor
: is enabling us to "weed out" delusional ideations before they "take root."
I had an idea for a great money-maker. It's called "No-men"... basically
it's an agency of guys paid to follow celebrities around and tell them
what untalented dolts they are.
Is your star getting too full of himself? Just hire some no-men to trail
around him... They'll happily despense the kind of "perfect sense" advice
a stern mother would.
: People with rigid delusions are usually humorless. Note that OTII has
: always struck me as an exercise in suppressing one's ability to recognize
: absurdity.
I read it that way too. It's like a test to see if your mind's been
twisted enough for the next step.
Did you fall for it? You get to move along...
Did you NOT fall for it? Ooops.. back you go... you're not ready yet.
AndroidCat www.xenu.net
news:8klj2a$8j4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
<snip>
> That's very true. I think it puts a person into a very dissociative,
> hypnotic state. Also, since BTs are considered actual beings, I think
> what this is doing, is dissociating and then killing off parts of the
> person's personality. There are other forms of psychotherapy (gestalt
> therapy, transactional analysis, or NLP, for instance), that seek to
> integrate different "parts" of a person that they might have previously
> dissociated from and this makes the person more whole. OT3 and above,
> especially NOTS, appears to do just the opposite, breaking the self
> into hundreds of fragments and then disgarding them until nothing is
> left but a Scientologist.
Aha, Elron got the whole thing completely wrong!
Here's the real story of Incident II and OT-III. (Are you sitting
comfortably?)
The part about Xenu is mostly true. There were bodies, volcanos, H-bombs,
and theaters. But what he doesn't say is that the H-Bombs spilt each Thetan
up into a zillion pieces. Also, he doesn't mention that the theater was one
of those multiplex jobs that shows a whole lot of different movies (and a
lot of really bad ones). And it wasn't sticky beams, it was that junk under
the chairs.
Since each part of the Thetan saw a different matinee, when the bits all
came back together, they all had different viewpoints. (Except that they
all agreed that simulated butter flavoured popcorn sucks!) ("I've been to
the lavoratory at the movies, in fact everyone has. I've been twice. Why
is it that the woman's washroom is always the same size as the men's room
when any expert could tell you that it needs to be at least twice as
large?")
The proper goal for a Thetan is to recognize each separate part of itself,
get its movie critique, and merge it into the greater whole. Properly done,
this will build the thetan back to its original glory. Evil practices like
"blowing off" chunks of the original Thetan will result in a degraded being
who thinks that BE was a good movie. If you don't know it was shite, you
don't know how to think. In that case, can I sell you a bridge?
I have years of research to back this up -- this is SCIENCE damn it! And my
first name really is Ron, so you must believe me.
(Apologies to anyone who went through the mill, but it seems to me that
Elron could have said just about anything post OT-III, plugged the bad
sci-fi into the rest of the conditioning and it would have worked just as
well as the Official Tripe.)
Oh yes, and anyone who tries to prove me wrong is a religious bigot, and is
a liar, lair, hateful liar, pants on fire! Stamped it, no erasies!
Ron of that ilk.
Cineplexology: The 23 Screens to Total Freedom. Squink! Squink! Squink!
Campus Crusade For Xenu
stacy...@mciworld.com wrote:
> Thanks, Jim. It will be on the lisatrust.net website shortly.
No, thank YOU Stacy!
I admire your fearlessness...I wish I had your guts.
Thank the Goddess you made it out of Co$ in one piece.
BTW: I suggest you take a look at Liber ThIShARB, which is an appendix
in Aleister Crowley's "Magick In Theory And Practise". It describes
exercises meant to be used solo by upper-level members of Crowley's
Astrum Argentum magickal order. I believe that Elron Belron got the idea
of auditing from that article.
VWD!
The Misery Chick
--
Campus Crusade For Xenu:
Enturbulating Theta since 1978!
Remember Lisa: KEEP ON FIGHTING!!!!!
Chris Sutor
It would be neat to combine stacy's post wth some of the information in
these follow-ups to create a total examination of the auditing experience,
complete with the damage it creates in the minds of it's users.
Monica Pignotti <pign...@my-deja.com> spake thusly:
: In article <20000713160314...@ng-bg1.aol.com>,
: That's very true. I think it puts a person into a very dissociative,
: hypnotic state. Also, since BTs are considered actual beings, I think
: what this is doing, is dissociating and then killing off parts of the
: person's personality. There are other forms of psychotherapy (gestalt
: therapy, transactional analysis, or NLP, for instance), that seek to
: integrate different "parts" of a person that they might have previously
: dissociated from and this makes the person more whole. OT3 and above,
: especially NOTS, appears to do just the opposite, breaking the self
: into hundreds of fragments and then disgarding them until nothing is
: left but a Scientologist.
:>If this is true, then what it means is that an OT7 has numbed his own
:>ability to create, and thus--most surely--destoryed his own ability to
:>debunk Hubbard.
: I agree. I could even see some of that happening with OT3, which was
: the only "BT" level in existence at the time I did the OT levels.
:>The interesting thing is that the real effect of OT7 is to scramble up
:>the mind in exactly the same manner as psychotropic drugs. You are no
:>longer troubled because your mind has been numbed, not because you
:>have solved any particular problem.
: It's a frightening scenario, but most likely true from what I've
: observed.
:>Anyway, all I can say is that personally, my mind is much clearer
:>since I stopped auditing OT7. I'm afraid that the real road to
:>freedom consists of confronting your own problems, and doing things in
:>the real world, and not sitting around turning your mind into mush
:>with a lot of screwball Science Fiction.
: Good for you! I'm glad to hear you broke free of it. There are some
: who haven't been so lucky and have ended up in psychosis as a result.
: --
: Monica Pignotti
: Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
: Before you buy.
--
ptsc
>Bob Minton (b...@minton.org) wrote:
>: On 13 Jul 2000 20:03:14 GMT, kngp...@aol.com (Kng Peter) wrote:
the mind
>: >in exactly the same manner as psychotropic drugs. You are no longer
troubled
>: >because your mind has been numbed, not because you have solved any
particular
>: >problem.
>: Peter, could it be the remnants of your Scieno/Psych/CCHR phobias kicking
in to
>: cause you to make what I consider to be such an uninformed statements on
the
>: effects of psychtropic drugs? Pyschotropic drugs neither "scramble up the
mind"
>: or make someone "no longer troubled." No doubt Diane Richardson will
educate us
>: further. :-)
>"Psychotropic drugs" is such a broad category that Peter could be
>referring to those people who "self-medicate" by using street drugs; the
>"mind numbing" is exactly what a lot of chronic heroin users describe.
Another valid comparison is LSD, which often causes unusual thoughts
that seem to be communications from other entities. For another theory
on this, try _True Hallucinations_ by Terence McKenna, a guy who
has done way too many hallucinogens.
In either case, a much higher quality of drug-induced psychotic
ramblings than L. Ron Hubbard's.
ptsc
ptsc
>Eric Bohlman <eboh...@netcom.com> spake thusly:
>: In fact, if people are put in a controlled environment where nobody is
>: allowed to challenge anything they say (such as some poorly-organized
>: recovery groups), they will often come up with astoundingly delusional
>: ideas.
>...like trying to buy the elephant man's skeleton as a room decoration, or
>change their name from "Prince" to an unintelligible squiggle.
Actually, Prince changed his name to that squiggle because of a
contract dispute with Warner Brothers that limited his use of his
name, so he could release albums without their permission.
Michael Jackson, though actually a weirdo, has also had his
weirdness overrated. He has often deliberately leaked wacky
stories about himself to the press, and the "hyperbaric oxygen
chamber" story in a tabloid was also manufactured by
Jackson, who gave them exclusive permission to run it but
only if they used the word "bizarre" at least three times.
He has actually made a hobby of releasing weird and bogus
information to the tabloids and then pretending to complain
about it.
ptsc
Dorothy West
Rather than you receiving Dorian's emails and having to turn them into
postings, it would be faster and more efficient to set up "Dorian" with
direct access to your "b...@minton.org" ID.
You would be much more honest with yourself that way.
Dorothy
"b...@minton.org" wrote:
> Monica, yours is truly a thoughtful response to Stacy's post.
>
> I trust you have now accepted "the addiction to irresponsibility"
concept that I
> referred to in a follow-up post on February 26th which you were then
quick to
> poo-poo.
>
> This addiction to irresponsibility that Scientology breeds in its
adherents is
> an extremely important concept for all of us to understand. Stacy
sums it up
> brilliantly with this part of her post:
Dorothy West
b...@minton.org wrote:
> Amen!
>
> Bob Minton
You can't hurt yourself too much this way, so continue to pray.
Dorothy
Keith Henson
snip
> Monica, I think we are together as critics in exposing Scientology for what it
> is---hatred of human ability in a glossy package that promises total freedom and
> delivers abject slavery.
Man, talk about a summary.
> Like Stacy said, Scientology's is not a world in which I want to live.
Right, some damn fool wog SP would come along and stop all the buses. :-)
Keith Henson
> Bob Minton
Arnie Lerma <www.lermanet.com>
>
[snip]
> That article is definitely a keeper.
[snip]
indeed it is at the top of my page for current adherents
who might be having second thoughts about the length, and
negotiability, or even existence of the famed Bridge to Total Freedom and OT...
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/index.html
My Rx for $cientologists, hang onto yur wallet and run like hell.
No Wallet? hang onto your lives and run like hell
arnie
: ,; . : ' ___.
> uno, due, tre, FUEGO! .:. .:. .:': :' .:':' :. . : (") #oH|
> ' :' : :' : .::. H_ ~~~|
> < > __ ,;;,. \\::// R_) |
> '-|"""(") {__}::===== ....'''' ' ' ' ___..\||/....L\. ...|
> ____||--|_'--/__\___ '' .--''':::::::::::::::::::::
> \ / /////////////S.Coronado/////
>;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^
>LRon Hubbard is shelled by goats in hell. www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/
>
>
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>
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I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
AndroidCat www.xenu.net
news:8kmh29$tnr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <cg9smsglhofsg1du3...@4ax.com>,
> b...@minton.org wrote:
>
> > Amen!
> >
> > Bob Minton
>
> You can't hurt yourself too much this way, so continue to pray.
>
> Dorothy
And who do $cientologists pray to?
Oh wait, is this like "You can't have too much water in a nuclear reactor"?
(SNL)
Ron of that ilk.
AndroidCat www.xenu.net
news:ffrtms4hrqk2vra84...@4ax.com...
> In <lEwb5.71738$W35.1...@news20.bellglobal.com>, "AndroidCat
> www.xenu.net" <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> There's can be no doubt you've got the real deal, with a lot more
> science in it than whacked out El Rum could ever have hoped to buy
> with a truckload of S&H Green stamps.
>
> Just one question about this passage:
> ... (Except that they
> >all agreed that simulated butter flavoured popcorn sucks!) ("I've been
to
> >the lavoratory at the movies, in fact everyone has. I've been twice.
Why
> >is it that the woman's washroom is always the same size as the men's room
> >when any expert could tell you that it needs to be at least twice as
> >large?")
>
> off? Why's that take so long? A guy goes to the washroom, and in
> the time it takes to scream, "Chop a load now!", he's not only taken a
> load off, he's dumped it, and maybe even remembered to flush.
It's all down to stalls. ("Stalling"?) They take up more space. Guys can
belly up to the (less space) urinals, and be out of there much faster. I
understand that it's a more complex problem for women. And what with
external vs. internal parts, there's bound to be a difference in storage
capacity too.
Then again, I have heard strange rumours about what's inside women's
washrooms. (Can't be just baby changing trays, some men's rooms got those
now.)
But this isn't Rocket Science (or even Hubbardonics). A simple empirical
check of the line-ups would highlight the problem.
Phil Scott
Bob Minton wrote:
>Peter Alexander, in this thread, said that Scientology stifles creativity. In
>fact Scientology makes the the creative, less creative; the able, less able;
>the responsible less responsible. In fact, Scientology is a failure at
>everything it promises judging by the FACT that of the millions Scientology says
>have tried it, only a 100-200,000 adherents of Scientology exists in the world
>today.
I think its important to note the traditional satanic agenda in this
regard. Depending on the brand the intent is to degrade and to ruin
the person utterly, to make them slaves of lies. Now thats not just
my rhetoric.
The dark side is called in many ancient texts 'the father of lies'.
And of course that is what scientology is all about. and that is its
result. It ruins the person utterly with lies. I mean thats just
how it is.
Then guess what Hubbard recommends to handle those who disagree with
that agenda.... "ruin the person with lies". (paraphrased).
So imho, its NOT just that Scientology doesn't work. It *ruins, and
I think Hubbard knew in the final analysis that it ruined utterly.
Regarding the 'works' aspect. that must not be ignored. Cheese for
instance not only 'works' but it makes tremendous bait in mouse traps.
In Scientology there are many many processes and approachs that can be
used to either distract a person from his problems, provide some sort
of 'answer'...or whatever. Those are what hook a person into the
cult. These I believe need to look beyond those immediate 'gains'
to the larger picture wich is fully before them from the start, the
fraud and and lies. Dcent people on a decent and truly workable
agenda dont need to lie.
And they certainly dont need to hire hit men, private eyes, thugs and
whores to do thier bidding.
Phil Scott
>
>Critics of Scientology believe in giving everyone choices and a chance to be
>creative by writing their own script for their own lives. If an individuals
>critical thinking skills have not been fully suspended, their self-directed
>script will always be incompatible with the STANDARD script written by Hubbard.
>Therefore, by definition Scientology must vehemently oppose creativity, ability,
>responsiblity, freedom and those who espouse them.
>
>Unfortunately the Scientology script is like a serial where the PCs
>accomplishments are short lived because there’s always another BT to slay.
>Oddly enough, people in the Scientology trap vehemently fight to stay in it
>for as long as it takes to get the bait, or, failing that, as long as it
>takes to become convinced that getting the bait is a fantasy. The only thing
>that a Scientologist can truly receive in the Church of Scientology is a future
>of absolute slavery to Hubbard's failed script.
>
>Monica, I think we are together as critics in exposing Scientology for what it
>is---hatred of human ability in a glossy package that promises total freedom and
>delivers abject slavery.
>
>Like Stacy said, Scientology's is not a world in which I want to live.
>
>Bob Minton
>
>
>
Monica Pignotti
Thank you.
>I trust you have now accepted "the addiction to irresponsibility"
>concept that I referred to in a follow-up post on February 26th which
>you were then quick to poo-poo.
I'm not following you here. I don't see how the "addiction to
irresponsibility" concept is necessary to explain any of what she
said. What I see in what she very well described is the slow and
gradual process of mind control at work. The "addiction to
irresponsibility" concept I have trouble with because it implies that
the person in some way was conscious of what was going on.
>This addiction to irresponsibility that Scientology breeds in its
>adherents is an extremely important concept for all of us to
>understand. Stacy sums it up brilliantly with this part of her post:
>
>>But it begins to make sense to me when I realize that through the
>>process of auditing as I have described, these people have been
>>stripped of all sense of themselves;
Yes, they ~have been stripped~ of all sense of themselves. Note the
wording here. She didn't say that they "stripped themselves" or
were "addicted" to this or were even aware of what happened.
Irresponsibility implies a conscious choice to evade some
responsibility, which is where I begin to have problems with this
concept.
>(just wait for a post about O/W write-ups out of LMT, Lisa's in
>particular, to understand how naked and desolate a human being becomes
>in Scientology)
I have no argument with you here. I haven't seen Lisa's O/W write up
but have seen enough of them to know what you're talking about.
> >they have lost all sense of responsibility - indeed, all contact
> >with their own emotions, their own thoughts, even their own hopes and
> >aspirations. They have become addicted to the irresponsibility that
comes with
> >living a fantasy. They have truly come to believe in a bizarre
future, in
> >which the ultimate goal is a Scientology world, a world in which
everyone who
> >disagrees with Scientology will be done away with, quietly and
without sorrow.
I would take issue with the phrase "addicted to irresponsibilty"
because those words imply that the person got the way that they did
because they were "irresponsible".
>Peter Alexander, in this thread, said that Scientology stifles
>creativity. In fact Scientology makes the the creative, less creative;
>the able, less able; the responsible less responsible. In fact,
>Scientology is a failure at everything it promises judging by the FACT
>that of the millions Scientology says have tried it, only a 100-
>200,000 adherents of Scientology exists in the world today.
While this is all very true, I'd want to point out that at the same
time, Scientology makes people take inappropriate "responsibility" for
things that are truly not their fault. For example, it is said that
auditing works 100% of the time and if it doesn't it is the auditor's
fault, never the tech's. There are many examples of this inappropriate
assignment of responsiblity in Scientology.
>Critics of Scientology believe in giving everyone choices and a chance
>to be creative by writing their own script for their own lives. If an
>individuals critical thinking skills have not been fully suspended,
>their self-directed script will always be incompatible with the
>STANDARD script written by Hubbard.
>Therefore, by definition Scientology must vehemently oppose
>creativity, ability, responsiblity, freedom and those who espouse them.
I pretty much agree with the above which was very well said, but would
qualify the word responsibility as "appropriate responsibility".
Scientology believes that we literally created the physical universe
and we are responsible for everything that happens to us. There are
other new age philosophies that say basically the same thing. This
creates real problems for people, in that it induces guilt when people
blame themselves for things that were truly not their fault, such as
developing a devastating illness like cancer, for example.
>Unfortunately the Scientology script is like a serial where the PCs
>accomplishments are short lived because there’s always another BT to
>slay.
>Oddly enough, people in the Scientology trap vehemently fight to stay
>in it for as long as it takes to get the bait, or, failing that, as
>long as it takes to become convinced that getting the bait is a
>fantasy. The only thing that a Scientologist can truly receive in the
>Church of Scientology is a future of absolute slavery to Hubbard's
>failed script.
>
>Monica, I think we are together as critics in exposing Scientology for
>what it is---hatred of human ability in a glossy package that promises
>total freedom and delivers abject slavery.
Yes, I think we are together and basically in agreement and that much
of our disagreement on this is over the use of the
term "responsibility" which we might be defining in different ways.
Part of the problem I have with the use of this term is that it has
been so massacred by Scientology and by other new age belief systems,
that when I hear you using it, I have a certain response to it, as
might others who have been involved in Scientology. That's why I would
suggest putting the word, "appropriate" before "responsibility" and
maybe saying something about how this word has been abused by
Scientologists.
> Like Stacy said, Scientology's is not a world in which I want to live.
That's for sure and I think that this is the basic conclusion that
those of us who were fortunate to get out have come to.
--
Monica Pignotti
Kaeli
believe that we "mock up" the physical universe? That was the impression I
was getting near the end of Stacy's analysis on auditing.
Monica Pignotti wrote:
--
Kaeli A.
(KoX)
ka...@klis.com
"In this fateful hour, all heaven with its power, the sun with its
brightness, the snow with its whiteness, the fire with all the strength it
hath, the lightning with its rapid wrath, the winds with their swiftness,
the sea with its deepness, the rocks with its starkness, All these I place,
Between myself and the powers of darkness."
Madeline L'Engle, "A Swiftly Twilting Planet"
Ed
Kaeli wrote:
>
> I have a question here for some ex-Scientologists: is it leading people to
> believe that we "mock up" the physical universe? That was the impression I
> was getting near the end of Stacy's analysis on auditing.
>
The general idea is that one creates something, but if you then
view it the same way, it vanishes or uncreates. So, to create
something and have it persist, you have to include a lie ("alter-is"
in Scn jargon). For example, you create something along with the idea
that "I couldn't do that, only God could have." Then, as long as you
believe God or someone else created the universe, it persists
indefinitely. A corollary of the belief that God created it is that
one couldn't have done it oneself. So one disempowers oneself.
Scientologists are taught to loathe the physical universe with
passion. It is nothing but a prison. Our souls really belong somewhere
far away. Guess who has the only key for getting out of that prison?
Ed
Monica Pignotti
Kaeli <ka...@klis.com> wrote:
>I have a question here for some ex-Scientologists: is it leading
>people to believe that we "mock up" the physical universe? That was
>the impression I was getting near the end of Stacy's analysis on
>auditing.
Yes, that's definitely the premise that much of this is based on. The
clear cognition is that the person "mocked up" their own reactive mind,
but even deeper than that is the belief that we mocked up the physical
universe and that what is known as "reality" is really agreement among
what thetans mocked up, which is discussed even at a beginning level,
in the Axioms of Scientology. There's alot borrowed from Eastern
thought here. Of course, the end result of full OT is supposed to be
that the person is at "total cause" over matter, energy, space and
time. The full OT supposedly can "mock up" anything he/she wishes to,
being at total cause. We have yet to see this demonstrated, but that
is the claim and the goal of the bridge.
Ed
Chris Sutor wrote:
>
> It would be neat to combine stacy's post wth some of the information in
> these follow-ups to create a total examination of the auditing experience,
> complete with the damage it creates in the minds of it's users.
>
Part of the picture, which I hope somone can provide here
(Monica??) is the idea of False memory Syndrome.
The Scientologists who are on the upper levels desperately
need to understand FMS because it is a huge source of "bypassed
charge", that is, "charge" that has been turned on but left
unexplained. "Charge" in the tech is described as, to paraphrase, the
electrical-like tension that builds up when one both is drawn to
something but forced away from it, as in cognitive dissonance. In
other words, upper level Scns are miserable and disempowered in many
ways because they are drawn to the promise of "OT" but repelled by all
the nasty aspects of the organization; they are stuck with this but
can't resolve the conflict.
If they understood FMS, that charge would blow off and there
would be huge relief.
To a Scientologist False Memory Syndrome sounds like "psych"
jargon and it is immediately discarded as invalid.
So we need to have available on a.r.s. and websites a good
description of FMS without the "psych" context. I think what would
really do the job is a brief retelling of the story in the popular
book on FMS that came out a few years ago, which I think had the title
"False Memory Syndrome". (I don't have the book or remember the
author's name.)
Following is a brief part of my ARS Literati Challenge essay
on this, for whatever it's worth:
---------
Auditor's Code Breaks; False Memory Syndrome
It is a major code break for an auditor to tell the preclear that
something is in his or her reactive mind. The whole point is for the
pc to find out his or her reality, not to impose the auditor's or
LRH’s reality.
False Memory Syndrome is a fairly new phenomenon which drew a lot
of attention in about 1990. A fascinating book focused on one tragic
case, which I'll describe here. It may have some relevance for some
readers.
A man named Ingram lived in the country near Shelton, Washington.
He was a local police officer and was happily married with four
teenage children, lots of pets and animals. He was loved and respected
in his area. One day one of his teenage daughters accused him of
sexual abuse. The other daughter added her own accusations. The local
sheriff interviewed everyone and didn't really have much choice but to
put Mr. Ingram in jail. Ingram did not remember ever having committed
any of the alleged acts, and according to his religion, they would
have been terrible sins. But he thought, quite reasonably, that if he
HAD done the acts of abuse, he probably wouldn't be able to remember
them because they were so terrible. He really didn't think he would
have abused his daughters, but he couldn't know for absolute sure
because of the belief that extremely painful memories are hard to
access.
He was very embarrassed and ashamed of the whole predicament. He
would have happily confessed and asked for forgiveness if he could
remember doing these horrible sinful acts. Now it so happened that the
two girls' stories changed every time they told them; in no way did
they corroborate each other, and no evidence of any sort supported
them. And the accusations were very bizarre. The sheriff was careful
and conscious and had several officers from other jurisdictions
interrogate Ingram and the girls. Finally he admitted to a whole batch
of horrible acts, pleaded guilty, and was sentenced to a long prison
term.
Before long it came out that one daughter had rented a video that
was circulating in their church about the horrible prevalence of
sexual abuse of children by parents; the other daughter had seen
something similar in the library, and they had made up the stories. (A
long story, but the point was that they made it all up.) Meanwhile the
father was stuck in jail because he had pleaded guilty. Tough luck.
Eventually many people became interested in the case and one
expert came and did an experiment. He asked Ingram to try to recall a
certain specific incident of the abuse, which the expert described in
detail. Ingram looked and looked and slowly "found" it. But the expert
had made it up entirely. It was a fiction!
So false memory syndrome can happen when a person believes that he
has a buried memory of some very painful incident, not because he
remembers the experience, but because someone else has described a
possible incident that "happened", and suggested that, if he tried
hard and really looked, he might recall it; and the person very much
wants to "find" the "memory" because of the spiritual relief that will
occur when it is "found". Ingram wanted to confess whatever sins he
had committed so he could be forgiven by God. People being tortured
want the torture to end. Scns want to go through the "Wall of Fire" to
immortality.
The person mocks up a "picture" of the supposed incident and
mislabels it as being "memory".
Lots of people have described this being the case when they ran OT
3.
Other evaluations: LRH's book "History of Man", according to a
woman who was the Director of Processing in London Org in the '50s,
was "researched" by LRH and his son Nibs auditing people very late at
night, when they would normally be asleep, and while they were on
drugs, in order to see what sort of unusual findings they could get
with an e-meter. They wanted to get out an exciting new book to drum
up business. I have never met a single person in Scn who has
corroborated any of the HOM "data" from their auditing experiences.
A friend told me that he had heard John Sanborn (a well-respected
oldtimer in Scn) tell of a time when he and Hubbard had made up the
Marcab story in the early 1950s.
------------
Ed
> :>The interesting thing is that the real effect of OT7 is to scramble up
> :>the mind in exactly the same manner as psychotropic drugs. You are no
> :>longer troubled because your mind has been numbed, not because you
> :>have solved any particular problem.
>
> : It's a frightening scenario, but most likely true from what I've
> : observed.
>
> :>Anyway, all I can say is that personally, my mind is much clearer
> :>since I stopped auditing OT7. I'm afraid that the real road to
> :>freedom consists of confronting your own problems, and doing things in
> :>the real world, and not sitting around turning your mind into mush
> :>with a lot of screwball Science Fiction.
>
> : Good for you! I'm glad to hear you broke free of it. There are some
> : who haven't been so lucky and have ended up in psychosis as a result.
>
> : --
> : Monica Pignotti
>
> : Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> : Before you buy.
>
Monica Pignotti
Chris Sutor <cob...@tiger.tigerden.com> wrote:
>
>It would be neat to combine stacy's post wth some of the information in
>these follow-ups to create a total examination of the auditing
>experience, complete with the damage it creates in the minds of it's
>users.
That's a great idea. This is the most interesting thread we've had
here in a long time and I want to thank Stacy for starting it. I'd
like to see more threads on ARS like this, that really get down to
discussing the basic issues, which leads to a greater understanding of
what is really going on.
Dave Bird
Hash: SHA1
In article<396F15E4...@klis.com>, Kaeli <ka...@klis.com> writes:
>I have a question here for some ex-Scientologists: is it leading people to
>believe that we "mock up" the physical universe? That was the impression I
>was getting near the end of Stacy's analysis on auditing.
Oh yes. Read Grade7 (clearing course) lecture "the pattern of the
bank", in the Fishman affidavit. It is summarised and analysed
on my page under clam/essays/
- -- . : : ,; . : ' ___.
uno, due, tre, FUEGO! .:. .:. .:': :' .:':' :. . : (") #oH|
' :' : :' : .::. H_ ~~~|
< > __ ,;;,. \\::// R_) |
'-|"""(") {__}::===== ....'''' ' ' ' ___..\||/....L\. ...|
____||--|_'--/__\___ '' .--''':::::::::::::::::::::
\ / /////////////S.Coronado/////
;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^
LRon Hubbard is shelled by goats in hell. www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/
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Dave Bird
Hash: SHA1
In article<8kljc8$8te$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Monica Pignotti <pignotti@my-
deja.com> writes:
>> "Psychotropic drugs" is such a broad category that Peter could be
>> referring to those people who "self-medicate" by using street drugs;
>> the "mind numbing" is exactly what a lot of chronic heroin users
>> describe.
>
>It's possible he meant to say "psychadelic" drugs, like LSD, which
>could be said to "scramble the mind".
Well, you MIGHT: what they induce for a few hours is the equivalent
of a schizophrenic wig-out with lots of nice illusions.
- -- . : : ,; . : ' ___.
uno, due, tre, FUEGO! .:. .:. .:': :' .:':' :. . : (") #oH|
' :' : :' : .::. H_ ~~~|
< > __ ,;;,. \\::// R_) |
'-|"""(") {__}::===== ....'''' ' ' ' ___..\||/....L\. ...|
____||--|_'--/__\___ '' .--''':::::::::::::::::::::
\ / /////////////S.Coronado/////
;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^
LRon Hubbard is shelled by goats in hell. www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/
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Michael Reuss
> Now, back to reality.
StveJ, I know you hate Stacy, and the LMT. But Stacy wrote one thing
in a recent message that is very important to you, which I would like
to point out here.
She said this about a book: "We weren't allowed to read it, of course,
as Sea Org members."
Think about that. "We weren't allowed to read it." Not allowed read a
book. That's amazing. When, exactly, does one agree to let others in
Scientology dictate their reading material? Does this happen overtly,
with your full and aware agreement? Or is this one of those gradient
things, where one day you just wake up to realize you've turned over a
whole lot of control over your own life to your cult?
Is it not true that one joins the Sea Org in order to become a
POWERFUL being? How does being powerful jibe with the idea that one
day you need permission from some humorless shithead above you in a
para militaristic command chain, just to read a fucking book?
Private StveJ, begging the commodore's pardon to read a book, SIR!
Permission denied, private. It'll ruin your case.
But SIR, am I not powerful enough to withstand the reading?
No! DISMISSED, private!
SIR, I would...
I SAID DISMISSED! ONE MORE word and you'll be in the RPF!
Aye aye, SIR, thank you SIR!
(May I have another)
So, StveJ, what things are you "allowed" and "not allowed" to do and
read and see and say? Are you really becoming a more powerful being
when you need obey others telling you not to read, or when you sneak
around to read a book you might be curious about?
Interesting questions, no?
I recommend that you just store these questions for now. Don't think
about them too much, just yet. Wait a couple of weeks, let them
percolate for a while. Then maybe think about beginning to commence to
ponder these mysteries.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled shilling.
Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid
Steve Zadarnowski
>My view is that not everyone in the world needs therapy
This is true.
>Auditing, at the lower levels where it is simple regression
>therapy such as Life Repair, Self-Analysis Lists or Grades,
>may be beneficial for some people.
There's no doubt that a slice of the population don't have
individual 'ability' to cope with some difficulties of life,
and it is these that are easily attracted to religions and
therapies.
>Scientology auditors have no formal education to prepare
>them as therapists -
It starts the amateur way with people doing the Dianetics
thing from the book, with lots of "oohs" and "ahs" as they
encounter the obvious effects of interpersonal therapy.
>Preclears who do not give their auditors incidents prior to
>this lifetime are required to undergo a Whole Track Remedy
>before they are allowed to go onto their upper levels.
Aha. I've been told several times that you *don't* have to
believe in past lives by Scientologists. Obviously, not
knowing the full interconnectivity between courses and
auditing, we can easily accept a lie from a Scientologist
at the time as fact because we aren't always in a position
to disprove it.
>By now you know that the entire physical universe is composed of BTs.
>You know that the reason it is so important to get everyone on the
>planet into Scientology and on the Bridge to Total Freedom is that
>it will take every single person auditing all day long, every day,
>for many, many years, to audit out all the body thetans that compose
>the physical universe. You now share the most important secret of all,
>because only now that you are on OT 7 do you know that the true goal
>of Scientology is to make the physical universe disappear.
Hmmm. More bizarre than I thought.
Jesus. I must say that this one post has been more educationally
effective on what goes on in Scientology and the minds of
Scientologists than all the posts of NOTS and Ls and the rest.
And this is what Scientology must really fear: a cogent and
definitive breakdown of their processes and methods for
public consumption.
S
Podkayne1
fan...@nilspam.iinet.com.au wrote:
> >Preclears who do not give their auditors incidents prior to
> >this lifetime are required to undergo a Whole Track Remedy
> >before they are allowed to go onto their upper levels.
>
> Aha. I've been told several times that you *don't* have to
> believe in past lives by Scientologists. Obviously, not
> knowing the full interconnectivity between courses and
> auditing, we can easily accept a lie from a Scientologist
> at the time as fact because we aren't always in a position
> to disprove it.
"Now, people very grossly underestimate the number of Body Thetans there
are to run. Tremendous underestimation. Many people are too frightened
of Body Thetans. They all of the sudden say 'accchhhh!, I'll go and
attest'. 'I hope nobody finds out'. They cut their own throats because
the later OT Sections are booby-trapped."
- L. Ron Hubbard
(Lecture to students of first Class VIII course on the flagship Apollo,
October 3, 1968)
from an entheta site I discovered earlier today while looking for
something else:
http://www.fireplug.net/~rshand/streams/gnosis/cos.html
--
And as far as the statistics on Scientology [membership] those are correct...
they are the the factor that the statistics have been rising at for about 50
years..not the # of people involved. - "expert" Scientologist at askme.com
"You have angered the hedgehog, and now you must pay!"