Bob Minton gets Human Rights Award in Germany
Joe's Garage
Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
Federal Republic of Germany. The ceremony is to take place June 3, two
weeks before U.S. Congressional hearings are scheduled to occur in the
third year of an as yet unresolved decision to ask President Clinton to
convey disapproval to Germany for that country's treatment of Scientology.
The award site is http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de.
Joe Cisar: http://cisar.org/rfs0100.htm
Award site: http://alt-charlemagne-award.de
Why would Gottfried Helnwein, one of the world's leading Scientologists,
lie? See http://members.tripod.com/German_Scn_News/has00.htm
Phil Scott
wrote:
Congratulations Bob and on your recent precident setting and most
valuable win in Clearwater yesterday. Thank GOD for video camera's
and the brains to keep it focused on that morons Howds face as he lay
faking it on the sidewalk.... a cultie specialty.
That mess could have ruined any of us had it happened even with a
video camera but without the resources to defend ourselves from the
cult that you have.
thank you again, your support is much appreciated. I hope the rest
of the picketers learn the value of having both withnesses and
avoiding any possible remote chance of a confrontation with this cult.
Best Regards, Phil Scott
Cornelius Krasel
> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
> Federal Republic of Germany.
I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the
"European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is
rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from
Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would
start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems
to hold true for this "prize".
--Cornelius.
--
/* Cornelius Krasel, U Wuerzburg, Dept. of Pharmacology, Versbacher Str. 9 */
/* D-97078 Wuerzburg, Germany email: pha...@rzbox.uni-wuerzburg.de SP4 */
/* "Science is the game we play with God to find out what His rules are." */
Chris Owen
Krasel <kra...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes
>Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
>> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
>> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
>> Federal Republic of Germany.
>
>I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the
>"European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
>Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is
>rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from
>Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would
>start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything.
Actually he *did*. The various editions of "What is Scientology?"
include photos of all the various awards Hubbard received, including
those from his own front groups.
--
| Chris Owen - chr...@OISPAMNOlutefisk.demon.co.uk |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|
| THE TRUTH ABOUT L. RON HUBBARD AND THE UNITED STATES NAVY |
| http://www.ronthewarhero.org |
pATRICk dARCy
phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott) wrote:
> On Wed, 24 May 2000 16:40:13 -0400, Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net>
> wrote:
>
> Congratulations Bob and on your recent precident setting and most
> valuable win in Clearwater yesterday. Thank GOD for video camera's
> and the brains to keep it focused on that morons Howds face as he lay
> faking it on the sidewalk.... a cultie specialty.
>
> That mess could have ruined any of us had it happened even with a
> video camera but without the resources to defend ourselves from the
> cult that you have.
>
> thank you again, your support is much appreciated. I hope the rest
> of the picketers learn the value of having both withnesses and
> avoiding any possible remote chance of a confrontation with this cult.
>
> Best Regards, Phil Scott
>
Scientology
> >Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in
the
two
> >weeks before U.S. Congressional hearings are scheduled to occur in
the
> >third year of an as yet unresolved decision to ask President Clinton
to
> >convey disapproval to Germany for that country's treatment of
Scientology.
> >The award site is http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de.
> >
> >Joe Cisar: http://cisar.org/rfs0100.htm
> >Award site: http://alt-charlemagne-award.de
> >Why would Gottfried Helnwein, one of the world's leading
Scientologists,
> > lie? See
http://members.tripod.com/German_Scn_News/has00.htm
> >
>
>
my congratulations too. and hopefully in the future anyone that
pickets the church etc. will come with cameras so that they can
defend themselves when they need to. isnt it a shame that in
america this kind of behavior is promoted by the government. what
are they thinking
--
travolta was just awful in that new sci fi movie. i love scientologists
even more now
:)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
ref...@bway.net
<kra...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote:
>Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
>> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
>> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
>> Federal Republic of Germany.
>
>I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the
>"European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
>Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is
>rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from
>Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would
>start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems
>to hold true for this "prize".
What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort
of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
pATRICk dARCy
Cornelius Krasel <kra...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote:
> Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
> > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the
Scientology
> > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award
in the
> > Federal Republic of Germany.
>
> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the
> "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
> Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is
> rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from
> Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would
> start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems
> to hold true for this "prize".
>
i cant comment on the committe because i have never heard of it.
maybe someone can give us some info.
i want to mention however that in afl there has been talk of
how in europe werner has been given several i believe awards.
these are some kind of humanitarian awards. i guess it could
be said that if humanitarian organization are giving out
awards to creeps like werner then what comes next.
>
> --
> /* Cornelius Krasel, U Wuerzburg, Dept. of Pharmacology, Versbacher
Str. 9 */
> /* D-97078 Wuerzburg, Germany email: pha...@rzbox.uni-wuerzburg.de
SP4 */
> /* "Science is the game we play with God to find out what His rules
are." */
>
--
Joe's Garage
> Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
> > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
> > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
> > Federal Republic of Germany.
>
> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the
> "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
> Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is
> rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from
> Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would
> start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems
> to hold true for this "prize".
Along those same lines, you could also argue that there was not all that
much difference between Churchill and Hitler. After all, they were
certainly both supported by front groups from which they each received
numerous awards. In other words, the above analogy does not so much
reflect on the people being compared as it does on a personal readiness
to discredit by association.
Thomas Gandow
Cornelius Krasel schrieb:
>
> Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
> > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
> > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
> > Federal Republic of Germany.
>
> I have no evidence for my allegation,
> but it appears to me that the
> "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
> Narconon is a front group for Scientology.
No. Please do not redefine the meaning of "front group".
A front group is a group where some people or another organisation is
hiding behind.
This committee *is* the real thing. All names are disclosed.
There is nothing *behind* the committee, but there are more and more
*supporters*, who are also speaking out in their own names and with
their own names or known aliases.(See the list on
http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de)
Thomas Gandow
Cornelius Krasel schrieb:
>
> Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
> > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
> > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
> > Federal Republic of Germany.
>
> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the
> "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
> Narconon is a front group for Scientology.
HaHa,
in Germany, Scientology tries to run a DA-Campaign against Bob Minton.
They approached different journalists, saying
"Do You know, that the famous good old Alt-Charlemagne-Award-Committee
is trapped by Bob Minton? We give You Information (i.e: the DA-Pack)
that this men is not worthy for the ACMA. So please warn and educate the
ACMA-committee with an article, written with the help of our our
information (= the DA-Pack)"
TG
Cornelius Krasel
> Cornelius Krasel schrieb:
>> Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
>> > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
>> > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
>> > Federal Republic of Germany.
>>
>> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the
>> "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
>> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
>> Narconon is a front group for Scientology.
>
> A front group is a group where some people or another organisation is
> hiding behind.
> This committee *is* the real thing. All names are disclosed.
> There is nothing *behind* the committee, but there are more and more
> *supporters*, who are also speaking out in their own names and with
> their own names or known aliases.(See the list on
> http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de)
The supporters are mostly a.r.s. readers, from what I can see. The
"committee" seems to be an outgrowth (I hope you prefer this to
"front group") of the "Berliner Dialog" group (of which Mr. Gandow
is incidentally the leader). I concede that the term "anti-cultists"
may have been a bad choice but I couldn't think of anything better
at that moment.
Well, I don't mind. I just want to put the thing into perspective.
--Cornelius.
Tilman Hausherr
<392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort
>of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*. Like the alternative nobel
prize compared to the official nobel prize. There is an official
charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.xenu.de
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
ref...@bway.net
Hausherr) wrote:
>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>
>>What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort
>>of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
>
>It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*.
What has Robert S. Minton done to render "distinguished service on
behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
>Like the alternative nobel
>prize compared to the official nobel prize.
There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize,
however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a
more appropriate distinction for Minton.
>There is an official
>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
>human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Chris Leithiser
>
> There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize,
> however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a
> more appropriate distinction for Minton.
http://www.dfg-vk.de/english/book39.htm
http://www.eurosolar.org/Mitteilungen/nobelscheer.eng.html
Tilman Hausherr
<392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>Hausherr) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>
>>>What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort
>>>of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
>>
>>It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*.
>
>What has Robert S. Minton done to render "distinguished service on
>behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
>
>>Like the alternative nobel
>>prize compared to the official nobel prize.
>
>There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize,
>however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a
>more appropriate distinction for Minton.
Yes there is. It is donated by a guy named Jacob Üxküll or similar.
However the prize is pretty much mainstream today, and is awarded one
day before the official prize. For example, one prizewinner was an
indian attorney who litigated (successfully) in the european patent
court to prevent a US corporation from patenting the use of the seeds of
the indian nim tree.
>>There is an official
>>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
>>human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
>
>Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>award.
In a newspaper a few months ago it was mentioned that he received it for
his contribution to human rights in yugoslavia.
>While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
Lets rather say he replaced genocide with collateral damage. And as we
know now, the so-called "master plan" of the serbs was bogus, similar to
the "Najirah" story in the gulf war. This is not to say that there
wasn't genocide, but the story of a "master plan" was bogus.
Tilman
ref...@bway.net
<clei...@bc.cc.ca.us> wrote:
>ref...@bway.net wrote:
>>
>> There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize,
>> however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a
>> more appropriate distinction for Minton.
>
>http://www.dfg-vk.de/english/book39.htm
>http://www.eurosolar.org/Mitteilungen/nobelscheer.eng.html
well, I guess there is. One thing that's guaranteed, though --
the IgNobel Prizes are far, far more entertaining. :-)
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/ignobels981009.html
http://www.improbable.com/ig/what-are.html
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
k_blo...@my-deja.com
> ... it appears to me that the "European-American citizens committee
> for human rights and religious freedom in the USA" is as much a front
> group for anti-cultists ...
> ... the prize is rather worthless.
I mostly agree.
To me, this "Alternative Charlemagne Award" and the committee's name
have a satirical ring. It's the ring of the 60s when there was an
"Alternative Peace Prize" at the International Frankfurt Bookfair,
alternative to the official one awarded by the German Booksellers
Association. Nobody took that alternative freak prize seriously, except
the freaks.
In the case of the Charlemagne thing, the Scientologists seem to be the
freaks to take the award seriously.
So, when they take something seriously, they act seriously - and then
the reaction on them will be serious. They create their own deadly
reality. If this is the outcome of the alternative award - OK.
Klaus Bloemker
Frankfurt
k_blo...@my-deja.com
Dave Bird
>On Thu, 25 May 2000 13:36:12 +0200, Cornelius Krasel wrote:
>>Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
>>> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
>>> Federal Republic of Germany.
>>
>>"European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
>>rather worthless.
>of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
What on earth is a "Diane Richardson": is it some kind of medical
suppository?? I think that is supposed to parsed as
an " Alternative (Charlemagne-Award) "; an alternative
to the real Charlemagne award, which is presumably given by
governments and large corporations for the things which please
them, this one is given for achievements in 'alternative'
realms i.e. radical campaigning and human rights work.
--
. .
.'-. . .'-._.'.'. .-||||-. .'.'. .-'. .
'.' ..'.' -.'.' '.'/ \'.' '.'.-'.'.'.'.
'' :: :.'.'.'. '-.; (@)__(@) ;.-' .'.'. '.' '.'.
:: :::: :. '-_ :(@)/ \(@): _-' '.: .:'..::
:: :::: :: : (0 0) : :: :: ::::
:: :::: :: :::::::::: :: :: :::
: ':;: ;: .''-....-''. :; :: ::
' '.; ; '._ _.' ; ; '
. ' ' .
Joe's Garage
someone who supports this award for Bob Minton's actions of the past
couple of years in regards to Scientology, forward to swa...@xenu.net a
name or pseudonym, title or profession, city, country for inclusion with
supporters already listed at http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de. How
often do you get a chance like this to tell someone that you think they've
done a good job? I'll post a letter similar to this for Odette Jaccard,
too, just using word substitution. It's not cheating if you support them
both ;-)
Previous articles posted about Bob Minton include the following:
Minton
http://cisar.org/trn0318.htm 19980418 Berliner Morgenpost
http://cisar.org/vid0006e.htm 19980419 TV
http://cisar.org/trn0330.htm 19980423 Rheinischer Merkur
http://cisar.org/p80919.htm 19980919 1st Person
http://cisar.org/000406b.htm 20000406 MoPo
http://cisar.org/000406f.htm 20000406 Abendblatt
http://cisar.org/000407a.htm 20000407 MoPo
http://cisar.org/000407b.htm 20000407 Welt
http://cisar.org/000407c.htm 20000407 TAZ
http://cisar.org/000408a.htm 20000408 MoPo
http://cisar.org/000418d.htm 20000418 unofficial OSA
http://cisar.org/000425c.htm 20000425 Abendblatt
http://alt-charlemagne-award.de
On Wed, 24 May 2000, Joe's Garage wrote:
> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
> Federal Republic of Germany. The ceremony is to take place June 3, two
> weeks before U.S. Congressional hearings are scheduled to occur in the
> third year of an as yet unresolved decision to ask President Clinton to
> convey disapproval to Germany for that country's treatment of Scientology.
> The award site is http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de.
>
Lronscam
<c73jg8...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de>, On or about Thu, 25 May 2000
13:36:12 +0200,
Cornelius Krasel says...
>Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
>> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
>> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
>> Federal Republic of Germany.
>
>I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the
>"European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
>Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is
>rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from
>Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would
>start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems
>to hold true for this "prize".
So the truth is revealed. Bob Minton is a Scn'gy terrorist acting like a
critic of Scn'gy, acting like a Scn'gy terrorist, acting like a critic of
Scn'gy, acting like he's acting......
Is this the war of propaganda?
Thomas Gandow
Cornelius Krasel schrieb:
>
> Thomas Gandow <gan...@is.in-berlin.de> wrote:
> > Cornelius Krasel schrieb:
> >> Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net> wrote:
> >> > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology
> >> > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the
> >> > Federal Republic of Germany.
> >>
> >> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the
> >> "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious
> >> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as
> >> Narconon is a front group for Scientology.
> >
> > No. Please do not redefine the meaning of "front group".
> > A front group is a group where some people or another organisation is
> > hiding behind.
> > This committee *is* the real thing. All names are disclosed.
> > There is nothing *behind* the committee, but there are more and more
> > *supporters*, who are also speaking out in their own names and with
> > their own names or known aliases.(See the list on
> > http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de)
>
> The supporters are mostly a.r.s. readers, from what I can see.
But this makes them not a front group.
> The
> "committee" seems to be an outgrowth (I hope you prefer this to
> "front group") of the "Berliner Dialog" group (of which Mr. Gandow
> is incidentally the leader).
That is not fully correct.
The committee was established in 1997 as a Lisa Mc Pherson-Ad
Hoc-Committee. See: http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de/#English
It grew out of a connection between some ARSians and german parents
associations.
The "Berliner Dialog" is not a group or Organization, but (tries to be)
a quarterly Magazin http://www.religio.de/dialog/dialog.html
The Magazin *reported* on the letter of condolence and the committee.
(Sorry, this issue is not online.)
I am not a leader, but only one of three Vize-presidents of the DCI and
"incidentally" I am the editor-in-chief of the Berliner Dialog.
The "Berliner Dialog" is edited by the Dialog Center International
http://www.dci.dk and the Dialog Zentrum Berlin
http://www.dialogzentrum.de
> I concede that the term "anti-cultists"
> may have been a bad choice but I couldn't think of anything better
> at that moment.
> Well, I don't mind. I just want to put the thing into perspective.
>
> --Cornelius.
What is true is, that the DCI and the DZB are a supporting part of the
European-American Citizens Committee for Human Rights and Religious
Freedom in the USA http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de
We support not only the committee, but also the idea, to give a
human-rights award to someone who is defending human rights, freedom of
information and freedom of opinion in the US of America.
You are free to join this committee.
May be that Youare right and it really is a front group: But only in
that sense, that the defense of human rights and dignity puts you in the
frontline between Human dignity and Scientology.
TG
John Crowdis
I love the line about this year's biology winner...
"Finally, this year’s biology prize went to Peter Fong of Gettysburg
College, a man who fed Prozac to clams. The treatment seems to make the
mollusks happy—at least happy enough to reproduce. Prozac boosts the
levels of the neurotransmitter serotonin, a chemical event that induces
spawning in clams."
Feeding Prozac to clams... I wonder if this is prophetic?
Joe's Garage
...
>
> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
The above statement accusing those who think differently of sympathizing
with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit
bull.
Sometimes it scares me when I apply expert knowledge of the criminal mind
- that a person with a criminal mind accuses others of what she herself
(in this case) was doing - to what I see on the news group.
Arnie Lerma <www.lermanet.com>
>
>On Sun, 28 May 2000 15:24:05 -0400, Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 ref...@bway.net wrote:
>>...
>>>
>>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>>> award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>>
>>The above statement accusing those who think differently of sympathizing
>>with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit
>>bull.
>
>more contact with the Church of Scientology than I've ever had.
>
That's sig material Diane
There is no need to categorize folks that
are either Scientologists, those that hide being Scientologists,
whores for Scientology, and just run of the mill nutballs.
The results are the same.
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/whypaulette.htm
arnie lerma
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>On Fri, 26 May 2000 ref...@bway.net wrote:
>...
>>
>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>> award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>
>The above statement accusing those who think differently of sympathizing
>with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit
>bull.
Oh come now! "Cult-trained pit bull"? I'll guarantee you've had far
more contact with the Church of Scientology than I've ever had.
I also find it interesting that you clip the comment to which this
was a response. Taking snippets out of context appears to be
your forte ... was this a part of your "cult-training" or did
you learn this little bit of deceit all by yourself?
Get some professional help, Joe. You desperately need it.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Keith
<Pine.LNX.3.96.100052...@darkstar.zippy> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 May 2000 ref...@bway.net wrote:
>...
>>
>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>> award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
Diane attacks with a screaming MX missile.
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame20.html
>
>The above statement accusing those who think differently of sympathizing
>with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit
>bull.
Joe deflects the MX with the "evil empire" tag.
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame3.html
>
>Sometimes it scares me when I apply expert knowledge of the criminal mind
>- that a person with a criminal mind accuses others of what she herself
>(in this case) was doing - to what I see on the news group.
Joe proves his point that Diane is a criminal by stating that
any criticism of his silly award is a crime.
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame28.html
--
Best Regards,
Keith
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The worst of it has come and gone | They burn their bridges as they go
In the chaos of millennium, | The heretic is beautified
In the falling out of the doomsday crowd | Teach the harlot's child to smile
Their last retreat is moving slow ~Natalie Merchant- Thick as thieves
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith
<393176bf...@enews.newsguy.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 28 May 2000 15:24:05 -0400, Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 ref...@bway.net wrote:
>>...
>>>
>>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>>> award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>>
>>The above statement accusing those who think differently of sympathizing
>>with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit
>>bull.
>
>Oh come now! "Cult-trained pit bull"? I'll guarantee you've had far
>more contact with the Church of Scientology than I've ever had.
Diane counters Joe with the, "you had more cult training then I did."
>
>I also find it interesting that you clip the comment to which this
>was a response. Taking snippets out of context appears to be
>your forte ... was this a part of your "cult-training" or did
>you learn this little bit of deceit all by yourself?
Joe, is taking what I said out of context, this is a result
of him having more cult training then I had.
>
>Get some professional help, Joe. You desperately need it.
Diane, throws in a quick "You're a nut!" tag.
>
>
>Diane Richardson
>ref...@bway.net
>
>
>
--
The critics of Scientology are dangerous:
>From: www.xe...@cti.ca (The COder/DECoder)
>Message-ID: <37beb68d....@news.remarq.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
>I've read enough. I truly hope things are as bad for the cult in
>Toronto as they say... I'm against racism and violence, but I am
>making an eception here!
Keith
<8grufq$1m...@edrn.newsguy.com> wrote:
> That's sig material Diane
>
> There is no need to categorize folks that
> are either Scientologists, those that hide being Scientologists,
> whores for Scientology, and just run of the mill nutballs.
>
> The results are the same.
Arnie comes back with a quick jab to his old nemesis
Diane. She is a cultist, cult-agent and/or nut.
>
> http://www.lermanut.com/cos/whynotpaulette.htm
Diane Richardson
<Arnie_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>In article <393176bf...@enews.newsguy.com>, ref...@bway.net says...
>>
>>On Sun, 28 May 2000 15:24:05 -0400, Joe's Garage <swa...@xenu.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 ref...@bway.net wrote:
>>>...
>>>>
>>>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>>>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>>>> award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>>>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>>>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>>>
>>>The above statement accusing those who think differently of sympathizing
>>>with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit
>>>bull.
>>
>>Oh come now! "Cult-trained pit bull"? I'll guarantee you've had far
>>more contact with the Church of Scientology than I've ever had.
>>
>
> That's sig material Diane
Yes, it is incredibly silly that Joe Cisar screeches CLAM CLAM CLAM!
any time someone disagrees with him. Seems you have a penchant
for doing that some yourself, Arnie.
> There is no need to categorize folks that
> are either Scientologists, those that hide being Scientologists,
> whores for Scientology, and just run of the mill nutballs.
Well, in your case, you've been a Scientologist, you've been
a whore for Scientology, and you're a certifiable nutball, Arnie.
I guess you fill all your own criteria.
> The results are the same.
Yep, loonies who come up with outlandish conspiracy tales
and just plain absurd claims like OSA putting LSD on your
toothbrush.
Seems to me you at least have a good handle on your own
problems, Arnie. Now why not try doing something about them?
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Joe's Garage
>
> Get some professional help, Joe. You desperately need it.
It doesn't bother me that you want to rain on someone else's parade, but
when you attempt to justify accusing people you disagree with of
sympathizing with genocide, you are clearly intent on self-sacrifice
of Travolting proportions. Nothing is worth that much.
Arnie Lerma <www.lermanet.com>
>
>On Fri, 26 May 2000 22:05:33 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>Hausherr) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:12 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>><392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>>>Hausherr) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>>>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>. I still
>find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>
>
>Diane Richardson
>ref...@bway.net
Then you have no problem at all about Bill Clinton being on the phone
with senate armed services committe chairman, Senator Dick Armey
discussing sending us soldiers to Mogadishu
while monica was on her hands and knees giving him a blow job?
Arnie
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*. Like the alternative nobel
>prize compared to the official nobel prize.
The only "alternative Nobel Prize" I've ever heard of would be the
Ig-Nobels. I seem to recall that Hubbard won one of those.
Is this something in the same vein?
>There is an official
>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions
>to human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
Um, the Karlspreis is awarded for promoting Western European unity,
not for human rights. Given this, I have to wonder: what has Bob
Minton done to promote Western European unity?
Kelly
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>> Arnie comes back with a quick jab to his old nemesis Diane. She is
>>a cultist, cult-agent and/or nut.
>Or she might just have a different opinion from you - had you
>considered that?
Doesn't that amount to the same thing?
Uniformity of opinion is required.
Kelly
Chris Owen
>On 28 May 2000 13:10:34 -0700, Arnie Lerma
>> are either Scientologists, those that hide being Scientologists,
>> whores for Scientology, and just run of the mill nutballs.
>>
>
>Diane. She is a cultist, cult-agent and/or nut.
Or she might just have a different opinion from you - had you considered
that?
--
| Chris Owen - chr...@OISPAMNOlutefisk.demon.co.uk |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|
| THE TRUTH ABOUT L. RON HUBBARD AND THE UNITED STATES NAVY |
| http://www.ronthewarhero.org |
Diane Richardson
Hausherr) wrote:
>On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:12 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
><392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>>Hausherr) wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>>
>>>>What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort
>>>>of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
>>>
>>>It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*.
>>
>>What has Robert S. Minton done to render "distinguished service on
>>behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
>>
>>>Like the alternative nobel
>>>prize compared to the official nobel prize.
>>
>>There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize,
>>however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a
>>more appropriate distinction for Minton.
>
>Yes there is. It is donated by a guy named Jacob Üxküll or similar.
>However the prize is pretty much mainstream today, and is awarded one
>day before the official prize. For example, one prizewinner was an
>indian attorney who litigated (successfully) in the european patent
>court to prevent a US corporation from patenting the use of the seeds of
>the indian nim tree.
>
>>>There is an official
>>>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
>>>human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
>>
>>Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>>Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>>award.
>
>In a newspaper a few months ago it was mentioned that he received it for
>his contribution to human rights in yugoslavia.
Perhaps you might be wiser to read the official proclamation
accompanying the award rather than depending on an uncited
article in an unnamed newspaper by an unknown author.
>>While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>>Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>>contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>
>Lets rather say he replaced genocide with collateral damage. And as we
>know now, the so-called "master plan" of the serbs was bogus, similar to
>the "Najirah" story in the gulf war. This is not to say that there
>wasn't genocide, but the story of a "master plan" was bogus.
I've never heard about any "master plan" at all. Perhaps you honestly
don't believe that what occurred in Bosnia-Herzogovina was was about
to take place in Kosovo. Perhaps you honestly believe it would have
been better to let those people destroy themselves, Tilman. I still
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>On Sun, 28 May 2000, Diane Richardson wrote:
>
>>
>> Get some professional help, Joe. You desperately need it.
>
>It doesn't bother me that you want to rain on someone else's parade, but
>when you attempt to justify accusing people you disagree with of
>sympathizing with genocide, you are clearly intent on self-sacrifice
>of Travolting proportions. Nothing is worth that much.
This is Tilman Hausherr's remark which I found offensive (and, I note,
which you chose to snip from your post):
"There is an official
charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)"
This is my response to Tilman's derisive comment:
"Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide."
Since then, Tilman Hausherr has expanded on his opinion of
Clinton's activities in prodding Western Europeans into action
against the Serbian aggression in Bosnia-Herzogovina and
Kosovo. Here is what he wrote:
"Lets rather say he replaced genocide with collateral damage. And as
we know now, the so-called "master plan" of the serbs was bogus,
similar to the "Najirah" story in the gulf war. This is not to say
that there wasn't genocide, but the story of a "master plan" was
bogus."
Of course, no one but Tilman mentions any such "master plan," or
appears to consider the absence of any such "master plan" as a
reason for Western Europe to insist that the United States fight
NATO's battles single-handed.
But if you agree with Tilman, Joe, you certainly have a right to
such an opinion. Perhaps you consider the loss of bridges and
power plants as horrendous as genocide, too.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Phil Scott
<Arnie_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>In article <3931c91...@enews.newsguy.com>, ref...@bway.net says...
>>
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 22:05:33 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>>Hausherr) wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:12 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>>><392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>>>>Hausherr) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>>>>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>[snip]
>
>>. I still
>>find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>>
>>
>>Diane Richardson
>>ref...@bway.net
>
> Then you have no problem at all about Bill Clinton being on the phone
> with senate armed services committe chairman, Senator Dick Armey
> discussing sending us soldiers to Mogadishu
> while monica was on her hands and knees giving him a blow job?
Well at least he was not a man with no head.
Blue Xenu
>
>On Sun, 28 May 2000 15:24:05 -0400, Joe's Garage
>
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 ref...@bway.net wrote:
>>...
>>>
>>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>>> award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>
You're the the biggest fucking asshole there is.
>
>>
>>The above statement accusing those who think differently of sympathizing
>>with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit
>>bull.
>
>Joe deflects the MX with the "evil empire" tag.
>
>http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame3.html
>
>>
>>Sometimes it scares me when I apply expert knowledge of the criminal mind
>>- that a person with a criminal mind accuses others of what she herself
>>(in this case) was doing - to what I see on the news group.
>
>Joe proves his point that Diane is a criminal by stating that
>any criticism of his silly award is a crime.
>
>http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame28.html
>
>--
>Best Regards,
>
>Keith
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The worst of it has come and gone | They burn their bridges as they go
>In the chaos of millennium, | The heretic is beautified
>In the falling out of the doomsday crowd | Teach the harlot's child to smile
>Their last retreat is moving slow ~Natalie Merchant- Thick as thieves
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The most exhausting thing in life is being insincere." --Anne Morrow Lindbergh
Blue Xenu
>
>On Fri, 26 May 2000 22:05:33 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>Hausherr) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:12 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>><392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>>>Hausherr) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>>>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
>>>>
>>>>It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*.
>>>
>>>What has Robert S. Minton done to render "distinguished service on
>>>behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
>>>
>>>>Like the alternative nobel
>>>>prize compared to the official nobel prize.
>>>
>>>There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize,
>>>however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a
>>>more appropriate distinction for Minton.
>>
>>Yes there is. It is donated by a guy named Jacob Üxküll or similar.
>>However the prize is pretty much mainstream today, and is awarded one
>>day before the official prize. For example, one prizewinner was an
>>indian attorney who litigated (successfully) in the european patent
>>court to prevent a US corporation from patenting the use of the seeds of
>>the indian nim tree.
>>
>>>>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
>>>>human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
>>>
>>>Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>>>award.
>>
>>his contribution to human rights in yugoslavia.
>
>Perhaps you might be wiser to read the official proclamation
>accompanying the award rather than depending on an uncited
>article in an unnamed newspaper by an unknown author.
>
>>>Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>>>contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>>
>>know now, the so-called "master plan" of the serbs was bogus, similar to
>>the "Najirah" story in the gulf war. This is not to say that there
>>wasn't genocide, but the story of a "master plan" was bogus.
>
>don't believe that what occurred in Bosnia-Herzogovina was was about
>to take place in Kosovo. Perhaps you honestly believe it would have
>find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>
>
Whoa! If people from other countries want to destroy themselves, let 'em.
This is from a commissioned officer in the US military. I'll gladly let you
take my place.
>Diane Richardson
>ref...@bway.net
Blue Xenu
>
>On 28 May 2000 13:10:34 -0700, Arnie Lerma
> <8grufq$1m...@edrn.newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> That's sig material Diane
>>
>> There is no need to categorize folks that
>> are either Scientologists, those that hide being Scientologists,
>> whores for Scientology, and just run of the mill nutballs.
>>
>> The results are the same.
>
>Arnie comes back with a quick jab to his old nemesis
>Diane. She is a cultist, cult-agent and/or nut.
>
>
And you're an asshole, too.
>>
>> http://www.lermanut.com/cos/whynotpaulette.htm
Blue Xenu
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 ref...@bway.net wrote:
>>>...
>>>>
>>>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>>>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>>>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>>>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>>>
>>>with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit
>>>bull.
>>
>>more contact with the Church of Scientology than I've ever had.
>
>
>
>>
>>I also find it interesting that you clip the comment to which this
>>was a response. Taking snippets out of context appears to be
>>your forte ... was this a part of your "cult-training" or did
>>you learn this little bit of deceit all by yourself?
>
>Joe, is taking what I said out of context, this is a result
>of him having more cult training then I had.
>
>>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Diane Richardson
>>ref...@bway.net
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>The critics of Scientology are dangerous:
>>From: www.xe...@cti.ca (The COder/DECoder)
>>Message-ID: <37beb68d....@news.remarq.com>
>>Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
>
>>I've read enough. I truly hope things are as bad for the cult in
>>Toronto as they say... I'm against racism and violence, but I am
>>making an eception here!
"The most exhausting thing in life is being insincere." --Anne Morrow Lindbergh
Blue Xenu
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us says...>said:
>
>>It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*. Like the alternative nobel
>>prize compared to the official nobel prize.
>
>Ig-Nobels. I seem to recall that Hubbard won one of those.
>
>Is this something in the same vein?
Well, what has Bob done in the same vein as Paulette Cooper, Russell Miller, or
John Atack?
>
>>There is an official
>>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions
>>to human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
>
>Um, the Karlspreis is awarded for promoting Western European unity,
>not for human rights. Given this, I have to wonder: what has Bob
>Minton done to promote Western European unity?
>
>Kelly
"The most exhausting thing in life is being insincere." --Anne Morrow Lindbergh
Tilman Hausherr
wrote in <3931c91...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>Lets rather say he replaced genocide with collateral damage. And as we
>>know now, the so-called "master plan" of the serbs was bogus, similar to
>>the "Najirah" story in the gulf war. This is not to say that there
>>wasn't genocide, but the story of a "master plan" was bogus.
>
>I've never heard about any "master plan" at all. Perhaps you honestly
>don't believe that what occurred in Bosnia-Herzogovina was was about
>to take place in Kosovo. Perhaps you honestly believe it would have
>been better to let those people destroy themselves, Tilman. I still
>find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
I will not make the mistake to start a long useless discussion with you
on this topic. Besides, it is not my job to educate you, be it the
alternative nobel prize, or the "operation horseshoe" scam, or the
meaning of the word "collateral damage".
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.xenu.de
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Thomas Gandow
> On Fri, 26 May 2000 22:05:33 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
> Hausherr) wrote:
> >On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:12 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
> ><392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
> >>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
> >>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>
> >>behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
Here is the answer:
Bob Minton, steered by his courage and sense of civil duty, has
distinguished himself in human rights in the USA and around the world by
his involvement with the persecuted minority of former Scientology
Organization (SO) members who have been attacked by the SO, and with
U.S. society, which is at risk to the totalitarian influences of the SO.
By our recognition, we wish to show our support for the American people
and to put an end to human rights
violations which are being committed by the Scientology Organization
against citizens of the USA and other
countries.
One mor notion: There is now no West European Unification, but only one
Europe, and severral countries, not only in Western Europe, have
problems with the totalitarian Scientology-Organisation.
> >>>There is an official
> >>>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
> >>>human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
> >>
> >>Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
> >>Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
> >>award.
She knows nothing, may be, that she cannot read. Or at least can not
read german.
> Perhaps you might be wiser to read the official proclamation
> accompanying the award rather than depending on an uncited
> article in an unnamed newspaper by an unknown author.
>
Hier is an exerpt of the Official "Urkunde".
http://194.245.36.141/karlspreis2000/urkundentext.htm
It reads like this:
In Würdigung der partnerschaftlichen Zusammenarbeit
mit den europäischen Staaten zur Erweiterung und Vertiefung der Union,
der *Wahrung der Menschenrechte und der Freiheit*,
sowie als Dank der Europäer an das amerikanische Volk für
den Aufbau der Demokratie und des Wohlstandes nach 1945.
> I still
> find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>
> Diane Richardson
> ref...@bway.net
The "Aachen Charlemagne Award" was meant to distinguish people who
*promote* democracy, human rights and the common values of Europe.
The prize is bestowed yearly "for the most valuable contribution in the
service of the European Union, and for community work in the service of
humanity and world peace."
Certainly promotion of Scientology is against the will and interest of
all european states, see reports about the Scientology-Problems in
Spain, Italy, France, Germany Russia to mention only a few.
If a foreign government furthers and promotes an organisation in Your
country, which You and Your government and the European Council and the
european Parlament see as conflictous if not criminal and against
constitution is that a valuable contribution in the service of European
Union or mixing in internal affairs?
And even if Scientology was a religion, is promotion of a "religion" by
President and State Department not against Your own Constitution or the
First Amendement?
TG
Thomas Gandow
Diane Richardson schrieb:
> I still
> find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
> Diane Richardson
> ref...@bway.net
The award winners of the "Aachner Karlspreis" were intended by the
initiators of the award to be "role models who evoke imitation."
It depends on Your own standpoint and off course on Clintons
credibility, if You respect and distinguish that Clinton as a student
"did not inhale" as he said. May be, that this for some people could be
a "role model, who evokes imitation", not to inhale as a student.
But I will not respect him as a "role model who evokes imitation", if he
as an adult not even knows for which purpose cigars are made.
TG
Beverly Rice
> Doesn't that amount to the same thing?
> Uniformity of opinion is required.
Try reading the NG a little longer.
The one thing you will NOT find here, is uniformity of
opinion!!!!
ARC,
Beverly
Beverly Rice
> It depends on Your own standpoint and off course on Clintons
> credibility, if You respect and distinguish that Clinton as a student
> "did not inhale" as he said. May be, that this for some people could be
> a "role model, who evokes imitation", not to inhale as a student.
> But I will not respect him as a "role model who evokes imitation", if he
> as an adult not even knows for which purpose cigars are made.
Everyone here on the NG ~KNOWS~ the depths that Co$ will sink
to in order to "Black PR" a person who does openly oppose them
and their criminality, fraud, lies, deception, harassment,
intimidation and abuse.
I can see why Clinton would totally support them 100% with his
every breath (inhale).
Can you even ~imagine~ the DA pack that the Co$ would set
loose on Clinton if he openly opposed their illegal actions!!!
It would make all his other enemies and opposition look like
~AMATEURS~, and I bet you he knows this 100%!!
I guess being in bed with the Co$ is more or less a survival
tactic on his part.
ARC,
Beverly
Ron Newman
> I've never heard about any "master plan" at all. Perhaps you honestly
> don't believe that what occurred in Bosnia-Herzogovina was was about
> to take place in Kosovo. Perhaps you honestly believe it would have
> been better to let those people destroy themselves, Tilman. I still
> find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
I suspect CoS-critics have a wide variety of views on the wisdom
of last year's NATO war in Kosovo. Karin Spaink and I enjoyed debating
the subject when I visited her last year in Amsterdam. Although I
was skeptical at the time, I'm glad that it ended in a NATO victory.
Still, I don't see its relevance to a.r.s.
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Diane Richardson
<gan...@is.in-berlin.de> wrote:
>Diane Richardson schrieb:
>> On Fri, 26 May 2000 22:05:33 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>> Hausherr) wrote:
>> >On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:12 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>> ><392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>> >>On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>> >>Hausherr) wrote:
>> >>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>> >>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>
>> >>What has Robert S. Minton done to render "distinguished service on
>> >>behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
>
>Here is the answer:
>Bob Minton, steered by his courage and sense of civil duty, has
>distinguished himself in human rights in the USA and around the world by
>his involvement with the persecuted minority of former Scientology
>Organization (SO) members who have been attacked by the SO, and with
>U.S. society, which is at risk to the totalitarian influences of the SO.
And just what does this have to do with Western European unification?
>By our recognition, we wish to show our support for the American people
>and to put an end to human rights
>violations which are being committed by the Scientology Organization
>against citizens of the USA and other
>countries.
And just what does this have to do with Western European unification?
>One mor notion: There is now no West European Unification, but only one
>Europe, and severral countries, not only in Western Europe, have
>problems with the totalitarian Scientology-Organisation.
And what has Bob Minton done to further the unification of Europe?
>> >>>There is an official
>> >>>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
>> >>>human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
>> >>
>> >>Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>> >>Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>> >>award.
>She knows nothing, may be, that she cannot read. Or at least can not
>read german.
The Aachen website is kind enough to provide an English translation.
It is from their website that I copied the statement that the
Karlspreis is awarded to individuals who further Western European
unity. Perhaps you might do well to learn a little more about an
award you choose to mock.
>> Perhaps you might be wiser to read the official proclamation
>> accompanying the award rather than depending on an uncited
>> article in an unnamed newspaper by an unknown author.
>>
>
>Hier is an exerpt of the Official "Urkunde".
>http://194.245.36.141/karlspreis2000/urkundentext.htm
>It reads like this:
>In Würdigung der partnerschaftlichen Zusammenarbeit
>mit den europäischen Staaten zur Erweiterung und Vertiefung der Union,
>der *Wahrung der Menschenrechte und der Freiheit*,
>sowie als Dank der Europäer an das amerikanische Volk für
>den Aufbau der Demokratie und des Wohlstandes nach 1945.
>
>> I still
>> find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>
>The "Aachen Charlemagne Award" was meant to distinguish people who
>*promote* democracy, human rights and the common values of Europe.
>The prize is bestowed yearly "for the most valuable contribution in the
>service of the European Union, and for community work in the service of
>humanity and world peace."
Just what has Minton contributed "in the service of the European
Union"?
>Certainly promotion of Scientology is against the will and interest of
>all european states, see reports about the Scientology-Problems in
>Spain, Italy, France, Germany Russia to mention only a few.
>
>If a foreign government furthers and promotes an organisation in Your
>country, which You and Your government and the European Council and the
>european Parlament see as conflictous if not criminal and against
>constitution is that a valuable contribution in the service of European
>Union or mixing in internal affairs?
No foreign government is furthering and promoting Scientology.
>And even if Scientology was a religion, is promotion of a "religion" by
>President and State Department not against Your own Constitution or the
>First Amendement?
The President and State Department are not promoting Scientology.
Did you really just come up with this bogus "honor" just because
Minton's name rhymes with Clinton's?
I find this whole charade to be a horrifically unsophisticated public
relations effort that reveals just how narrow-minded anticultists can
become. Perhaps you feel Scientology is the greatest threat to
humankind, but you're not going to convince many others of that
with your ersatz "honor."
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>In article <3931c91...@enews.newsguy.com>, ref...@bway.net wrote:
>
>> I've never heard about any "master plan" at all. Perhaps you honestly
>> don't believe that what occurred in Bosnia-Herzogovina was was about
>> to take place in Kosovo. Perhaps you honestly believe it would have
>> been better to let those people destroy themselves, Tilman. I still
>> find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>
>I suspect CoS-critics have a wide variety of views on the wisdom
>of last year's NATO war in Kosovo. Karin Spaink and I enjoyed debating
>the subject when I visited her last year in Amsterdam. Although I
>was skeptical at the time, I'm glad that it ended in a NATO victory.
>Still, I don't see its relevance to a.r.s.
Thomas Gandow and his gang believe it's *very* relevant. They
believe Bob Minton's activities (including shooting shotguns over
the heads of scientologists and poking at scientologists with picket
signs) is more worthy of recognition than Clinton's efforts to get
Europeans off their butts and acting to stop Serbian aggression.
Thomas Gandow appears to believe that somehow President Clinton
is forcing Scientology down the throats of fellow European citizens.
I find such an accusation ridiculous, but if nothing else it indicates
the narrow-mindedness of some people who dedicate their efforts
towards fighting what they see as "destructive cults."
This bogus "honor" smacks of anti-American hype and an
incredibly poor understanding of what constitutes good public
relations.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
>In article <3931c91...@enews.newsguy.com>, ref...@bway.net says...
>>
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 22:05:33 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>>Hausherr) wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:12 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>>><392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>>>>Hausherr) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>>>>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>[snip]
>
>>. I still
>>find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>>
>>
>>Diane Richardson
>>ref...@bway.net
>
> Then you have no problem at all about Bill Clinton being on the phone
> with senate armed services committe chairman, Senator Dick Armey
> discussing sending us soldiers to Mogadishu
> while monica was on her hands and knees giving him a blow job?
^^^^^
I didn't realize Clinton was so short, arnie.
> Arnie
I have no more of a problem with that than I have with Bob Minton
telling a St Petersburg Times reporter he was not having a sexual
relationship with Stacy Young just days before he posted an
announcement to a.r.s. that he was going to marry her.
Clinton and Minton may both be liars, but I haven't seen Clinton
announce his plans to marry Monica Lewinsky anywhere, have
you?
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
<gan...@is.in-berlin.de> wrote:
>
>
>Diane Richardson schrieb:
>> I still
>> find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>> Diane Richardson
>> ref...@bway.net
>
>The award winners of the "Aachner Karlspreis" were intended by the
>initiators of the award to be "role models who evoke imitation."
And so you believe Robert S. Minton is a worthier role model
than William Jefferson Clinton????
I'm beginning to understand your actions much better now.
Thanks for the clarification.
>It depends on Your own standpoint and off course on Clintons
>credibility, if You respect and distinguish that Clinton as a student
>"did not inhale" as he said. May be, that this for some people could be
>a "role model, who evokes imitation", not to inhale as a student.
I see. You think that it is better to have people imitate Robert S.
Minton's actions than William Jefferson Clinton's actions. Thanks
for making your opinion clear on that point.
>But I will not respect him as a "role model who evokes imitation", if he
>as an adult not even knows for which purpose cigars are made.
But you DO believe Minton's actions of shooting off a shotgun
over the heads of scientologists and hitting them with picket
signs are actions worthy of emulation. I didn't realize you
equated such activities with defending human rights. I guess
it must be a cultural thing.
Thank you so much for giving everyone a very clear explanation
of the reasoning behind the development and presentation of
your bogus award. I think the public now has a much better
understanding of where you and your colleagues are coming
from.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>Thomas Gandow wrote:
>
>> It depends on Your own standpoint and off course on Clintons
>> credibility, if You respect and distinguish that Clinton as a student
>> "did not inhale" as he said. May be, that this for some people could be
>> a "role model, who evokes imitation", not to inhale as a student.
>
>> But I will not respect him as a "role model who evokes imitation", if he
>> as an adult not even knows for which purpose cigars are made.
>
>Everyone here on the NG ~KNOWS~ the depths that Co$ will sink
>to in order to "Black PR" a person who does openly oppose them
>and their criminality, fraud, lies, deception, harassment,
>intimidation and abuse.
I'm never really sure anymore whether it is you (Beverly) writing
or Gerry Armstrong. I'll work on the assumption that Beverly
wrote this message.
>I can see why Clinton would totally support them 100% with his
>every breath (inhale).
What makes you think Clinton totally supports (100%) the
Church of Scientology? Has it occurred to you that Clinton
might be totally supporting (100%) the First Amendment of
the United States Constitution instead?
>Can you even ~imagine~ the DA pack that the Co$ would set
>loose on Clinton if he openly opposed their illegal actions!!!
Oh, come now, Beverly. If you honestly think the Church of
Scientology can do a better job of DAing President Clinton than
the right-wing loonies have done, you've lost all touch with
reality.
>It would make all his other enemies and opposition look like
>~AMATEURS~, and I bet you he knows this 100%!!
Well, I guess you are delusional, after all. The resources,
talent, and brains used by the right-wing loonies in an effort
to unseat the President make anything OSA might try look
downright amateurish. I think you've gone over the edge
on this one. Have you lost all perspective?
>I guess being in bed with the Co$ is more or less a survival
>tactic on his part.
What exactly makes you believe Clinton is "in bed" with the
Church of Scientology?
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us wrote:
In spite of the best efforts of several people to insure
uniformity of opinion, it hasn't happened yet, Beverly.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Xenu
>
>Thank you so much for giving everyone a very clear explanation
>of the reasoning behind the development and presentation of
>your bogus award. I think the public now has a much better
>understanding of where you and your colleagues are coming
>from.
>
>Diane Richardson
And I think you enjoy clouding the issue.
Xenu
>
>What exactly makes you believe Clinton is "in bed" with the
>Church of Scientology?
>
>Diane Richardson
Still trying to get others to do your homework for you?
Diane Richardson
Actually, I'm trying to discern just how much political beliefs have
influenced this thing. The more I read, the more it appears this
award was "invented" by German anticultists outraged that the
Karlspreis is being given to President Clinton.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Beverly Rice
> Um, the Karlspreis is awarded for promoting Western European unity,
> not for human rights. Given this, I have to wonder: what has Bob
> Minton done to promote Western European unity?
Clinton was, bewtween blow jobs, doing what the President <spit>
of the United States had ~better~ be doing!!! And what any
other schmuck who held his position would have done . . . it's
politics, straight and narrow.
As far as Bob, who is ~not~ a government official, and using
~his~ money and putting ~his~ self on the line, you could say
he is helping with European Unity by also, with other critics,
pointing out Clintonian and US sillinesses such as . . .
among all the truly ~horrid~ human rights abuses, of total
human destruction and murder, no make that outright ~SLAUGHTER~,
of the bloodiest kind going in places in the world that many
Americans are unaware of because if it "ain't" on the evening
news, they are clueless . . .
Clinton and comission call Germany one of the worst human rights
abusers in the world for saying Co$ is a business and not
letting them fall under being a ~tax-free~ status, and due to
knowledge of Co$'s past history of infiltrating and illegally
gathering information from government offices and other
businesses, wanting to keep them under observation . . .
trying to make Sweden change ~their~ constitution in order
to suit the desires of the Co$ for keeping "copyrighted" fraud
a secret . . .
trying to influence France as to how ~they~ should handle
their governmental and legal affairs . . .
basically willing to put all kinds of US/European unity at
stake all for the sake of the Co$ . . .
ARC for increased awareness,
Beverly
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>the meaning of the word "collateral damage".
"Collateral damage" is two words.
Kelly
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>The award winners of the "Aachner Karlspreis" were intended by the
>initiators of the award to be "role models who evoke imitation."
>It depends on Your own standpoint and off course on Clintons
>credibility, if You respect and distinguish that Clinton as a student
>"did not inhale" as he said. May be, that this for some people could
>be a "role model, who evokes imitation", not to inhale as a student.
>But I will not respect him as a "role model who evokes imitation", if
>he as an adult not even knows for which purpose cigars are made. TG
So you don't really care about honoring Bob Minton; you're just giving
him this award because you think Bill Clinton is undeserving of the
Karlspreis.
Besides, Minton has expressed a desire to stick knives where Clinton
stuck cigars. Frankly, I'd rather have a cigar.
Kelly
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>Actually, I'm trying to discern just how much political beliefs have
>influenced this thing. The more I read, the more it appears this
>award was "invented" by German anticultists outraged that the
>Karlspreis is being given to President Clinton.
More likely by a happenstance alliance between German & American
anticultists and political conservatives outraged at Clinton being
given any sort of award for anything. A substantial portion of the
anti-Scientology critical movement appears to be ultrareactionary
conservatives, after all; a happenstance alliance between these two
splinters is not unlikely.
Kelly
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>I suspect CoS-critics have a wide variety of views on the wisdom of
>last year's NATO war in Kosovo. Karin Spaink and I enjoyed debating
>the subject when I visited her last year in Amsterdam. Although I
>was skeptical at the time, I'm glad that it ended in a NATO victory.
>Still, I don't see its relevance to a.r.s.
The relevance is that individuals opposed to Clinton appear to have
decided to use Bob Minton as a vehicle to express that discontent.
Kelly
Thomas Gandow
Diane Richardson schrieb:
> I see. You think that it is better to have people imitate Robert S.
> Minton's actions than William Jefferson Clinton's actions. Thanks
> for making your opinion clear on that point.>
> But you DO believe Minton's actions of shooting off a shotgun
> over the heads of scientologists and hitting them with picket
> signs are actions worthy of emulation. I didn't realize you
> equated such activities with defending human rights.
I guess, it was in defending his house and garden against unlegal
invaders.
This belongs also to human rights, that totalitarian groups are not
allowed to come into your haus and garden. This is the rule in civilized
countries. It was not so in Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany.
Thank You for clarifying, that You und Your friends do not respect
privacy, property, good behaviour, door bells and so on.
In Germany, what they did is crimnal: "Hausfriedensbruch".
> I guess
> it must be a cultural thing.
Yes, but not between America and Germany but between Totalitarianism and
Democracy. There are very few Scientologists in the United States, who
try to behave like SA even before they have abolished democracy.
To prevent that ths behaviour becomes bad tradition, we need people who
defend freedom. That is one reason our committe came into being. See
basic charter text of the committe here:
http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de/#Basic
> Thank you so much for giving everyone a very clear explanation
> of the reasoning behind the development and presentation
It was a pleasure to me to explain what were our reasonings behind the
development and presentation of the human rights award (Alternative
charlemagne award) of our committee.
> I think the public now has a much better
> understanding of where you and your colleagues are coming
> from.
I hope so.
> Diane Richardson
> ref...@bway.net
So long.
Thomas Gandow
Tilman Hausherr
wrote in <39327a4...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>And just what does this have to do with Western European unification?
The alternative Nobel prize is *also* not about the same as the official
Nobel prize. (Assuming you have now taken the time to inform yourself
about it)
Tilman Hausherr
wrote in <39327e74...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>Thomas Gandow and his gang believe it's *very* relevant. They
>believe Bob Minton's activities (including shooting shotguns over
>the heads of scientologists and poking at scientologists with picket
>signs) is more worthy of recognition than Clinton's efforts to get
>Europeans off their butts and acting to stop Serbian aggression.
I am part of Thomas' "gang". Bob is not getting the prize for the two
activities mentioned above (both, as you know were completely legal).
In Germany, Howd would probably already have been arrested before the
incident, since it was pretty obvious that Howd was threatening him.
>Thomas Gandow appears to believe that somehow President Clinton
>is forcing Scientology down the throats of fellow European citizens.
I don't know if he believes it, but Clinton does support scientology,
simply because it is an american corporation. He even wrote for Freedom
magazine.
Tilman
Thomas Gandow
Diane Richardson schrieb:
>
> On Mon, 29 May 2000 12:13:23 +0200, Thomas Gandow
> <gan...@is.in-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> >Diane Richardson schrieb:
> >> On Fri, 26 May 2000 22:05:33 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
> >> Hausherr) wrote:
> >> >On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:12 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
> >> ><392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
> >> >>On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
> >> >>Hausherr) wrote:
> >> >>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
> >> >>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
> >>
> >> >>What has Robert S. Minton done to render "distinguished service on
> >> >>behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
> >
> >Here is the answer:
> >Bob Minton, steered by his courage and sense of civil duty, has
> >distinguished himself in human rights in the USA and around the world by
> >his involvement with the persecuted minority of former Scientology
> >Organization (SO) members who have been attacked by the SO, and with
> >U.S. society, which is at risk to the totalitarian influences of the SO.
>
> And just what does this have to do with Western European unification?
We live now ten Years after.
There is no "Wester European Unification, but a European Union.
> >By our recognition, we wish to show our support for the American people
> >and to put an end to human rights
> >violations which are being committed by the Scientology Organization
> >against citizens of the USA and other
> >countries.
>
> And just what does this have to do with Western European unification?
See above. It is our european concern, f.e. when the president of an
allied country is writing articles for a totalitarion cults magazin.
> >One mor notion: There is now no West European Unification, but only one
> >Europe, and severral countries, not only in Western Europe, have
> >problems with the totalitarian Scientology-Organisation.
>
> And what has Bob Minton done to further the unification of Europe?
We will see, how the event we will celebrate on saturday will not only
strenghten european unity towards Scientology, but also tranatlantic
cooperation to end totalitarian influence on politics.
> >> >>>There is an official
> >> >>>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
> >> >>>human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
> >> >>
> >
> >Hier is an exerpt of the Official "Urkunde".
> >http://194.245.36.141/karlspreis2000/urkundentext.htm
> >It reads like this:
> >In Würdigung der partnerschaftlichen Zusammenarbeit
> >mit den europäischen Staaten zur Erweiterung und Vertiefung der Union,
> >der *Wahrung der Menschenrechte und der Freiheit*,
> >sowie als Dank der Europäer an das amerikanische Volk für
> >den Aufbau der Demokratie und des Wohlstandes nach 1945.
> >
> >> I still
> >> find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
> >
> >The "Aachen Charlemagne Award" was meant to distinguish people who
> >*promote* democracy, human rights and the common values of Europe.
> >The prize is bestowed yearly "for the most valuable contribution in the
> >service of the European Union, and for community work in the service of
> >humanity and world peace."
>
> Just what has Minton contributed "in the service of the European
> Union"?
Have You not got the point, that all european countries do not like
totalitarian SO?
Heve You not read the resolutions of european parlament?
> >Certainly promotion of Scientology is against the will and interest of
> >all european states, see reports about the Scientology-Problems in
> >Spain, Italy, France, Germany Russia to mention only a few.
> >
> >If a foreign government furthers and promotes an organisation in Your
> >country, which You and Your government and the European Council and the
> >european Parlament see as conflictous if not criminal and against
> >constitution is that a valuable contribution in the service of European
> >Union or mixing in internal affairs?
>
> No foreign government is furthering and promoting Scientology.
I guess, You write from the United States. Therefore You are right.
But sorry, from my perspective, the Clinton Administration is a foreign
government.
> >And even if Scientology was a religion, is promotion of a "religion" by
> >President and State Department not against Your own Constitution or the
> >First Amendement?
>
> The President and State Department are not promoting Scientology.
So?
Probably You should buy a newspaper or at least read "Freedom magazin"
>
> Did you really just come up with this
> just because
> Minton's name rhymes with Clinton's?
It's funny, isn't it?
> I find this whole charade to be a horrifically unsophisticated public
> relations effort
But it works.
> that reveals just how narrow-minded anticultists can
> become.
Why complaining, when the other side makes a point?
> Perhaps you feel Scientology is the greatest threat to
> humankind, but you're not going to convince many others
Time will show. Nazism lasted 12 Years. Communism started 70 Years and
ruled 70 Years. Stupid totalitarin Systems have no chance in history.
> Diane Richardson
> ref...@bway.net
Why so nervous Diane?
Thomas Gandow
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us wrote:
>
>> Um, the Karlspreis is awarded for promoting Western European unity,
>> not for human rights. Given this, I have to wonder: what has Bob
>> Minton done to promote Western European unity?
>
>Clinton was, bewtween blow jobs, doing what the President <spit>
>of the United States had ~better~ be doing!!! And what any
>other schmuck who held his position would have done . . . it's
>politics, straight and narrow.
Could you clarify your position on Clinton's foreign policy, Beverly?
I understand you find Clinton's extramarital sexual activities worthy
of condemnation, as do I.
But I'm not clear as to what you find wrong about Clinton's policy
as to NATO involvement in Kosovo. What, specifically, do you
find reprehensible about his policy?
>As far as Bob, who is ~not~ a government official, and using
>~his~ money and putting ~his~ self on the line, you could say
>he is helping with European Unity by also, with other critics,
>pointing out Clintonian and US sillinesses such as . . .
But what has Minton done to further unity among western
European nations? That's the part of your argument I don't
understand.
>among all the truly ~horrid~ human rights abuses, of total
>human destruction and murder, no make that outright ~SLAUGHTER~,
>of the bloodiest kind going in places in the world that many
>Americans are unaware of because if it "ain't" on the evening
>news, they are clueless . . .
Again, I'm not sure if you are blaming the lack of awareness on
Clinton, on Minton, or on western Europe. Exactly who do you
blame for this lack of attention, and what does it have to do with
advancing the unification of western Europe?
>Clinton and comission call Germany one of the worst human rights
>abusers in the world for saying Co$ is a business and not
>letting them fall under being a ~tax-free~ status, and due to
>knowledge of Co$'s past history of infiltrating and illegally
>gathering information from government offices and other
>businesses, wanting to keep them under observation . . .
I have never seen any statement by President Clinton calling
Germany "one of the worst human rights abusers in the world."
Would you please cite your source for this claim? If it's online,
a URL would be adequate.
>trying to make Sweden change ~their~ constitution in order
>to suit the desires of the Co$ for keeping "copyrighted" fraud
>a secret . . .
I have not seen President Clinton issue any statement or utter
any words about Sweden's constitution. Would you please
provide a reference to the material upon which you base this
statement?
>trying to influence France as to how ~they~ should handle
>their governmental and legal affairs . . .
Again, could you provide something more than your own
assertion that Clinton has done this?
>basically willing to put all kinds of US/European unity at
>stake all for the sake of the Co$ . . .
What sort of "US/European unity" are you talking about here?
Outside of NATO and various treaty obligations, I'm unaware
of any efforts to unite the United States with the EU.
>ARC for increased awareness,
A very appropriate closing for such a message.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>I guess, it was in defending his house and garden against unlegal
>invaders.
Bob Minton's picket sign assaults occured on city streets.
His threat to mutilate a young woman took place over the Internet.
Does this fall within defending one's property?
I'm also curious how Bob Minton's extramarital philandering is any
less objectionable than Clinton's.
Kelly
Blue Xenu
>
>ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us wrote:
>
>> Um, the Karlspreis is awarded for promoting Western European unity,
>> not for human rights. Given this, I have to wonder: what has Bob
>> Minton done to promote Western European unity?
>
>Clinton was, bewtween blow jobs, doing what the President <spit>
>of the United States had ~better~ be doing!!! And what any
>other schmuck who held his position would have done . . . it's
>politics, straight and narrow.
>
>As far as Bob, who is ~not~ a government official, and using
>~his~ money and putting ~his~ self on the line, you could say
>he is helping with European Unity by also, with other critics,
>pointing out Clintonian and US sillinesses such as . . .
>
>among all the truly ~horrid~ human rights abuses, of total
>human destruction and murder, no make that outright ~SLAUGHTER~,
>of the bloodiest kind going in places in the world that many
>Americans are unaware of because if it "ain't" on the evening
>news, they are clueless . . .
>
Where is this going on, and what do you want the US to do about it?
>Clinton and comission call Germany one of the worst human rights
>abusers in the world for saying Co$ is a business and not
>letting them fall under being a ~tax-free~ status, and due to
>knowledge of Co$'s past history of infiltrating and illegally
>gathering information from government offices and other
>businesses, wanting to keep them under observation . . .
I haven't seen anything of this sort.
>
>trying to make Sweden change ~their~ constitution in order
>to suit the desires of the Co$ for keeping "copyrighted" fraud
>a secret . . .
Heh, yeah right.
>
>trying to influence France as to how ~they~ should handle
>their governmental and legal affairs . . .
Again, what are you talking about? Like they would listen to us anyway. Hell,
France is the country that kicked NATO out.
>
>basically willing to put all kinds of US/European unity at
>stake all for the sake of the Co$ . . .
>
NATO is at stake over CoS?
>ARC for increased awareness,
>
>Beverly
"The most exhausting thing in life is being insincere." --Anne Morrow Lindbergh
Tilman Hausherr
<m13dn1i...@poverty.bloomington.in.us>:
>On Mon, 29 May 2000 20:52:42 +0200, Thomas Gandow <gan...@is.in-berlin.de> said:
>
>>I guess, it was in defending his house and garden against unlegal
>>invaders.
>
>Bob Minton's picket sign assaults occured on city streets.
TG was talking about the shotgun incident. Scientologists were entering
his property. He handled it the american way. (almost; since the
american way is to shoot trespassers first, in self-defence)
If Bob Minton would enter a scientology property, they would do the
same.
[wacky accusations deleted]
Kelly, what's up? Has your irc personality portfolio got empty, so that
you do now have to troll the usenet as well?
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>TG was talking about the shotgun incident. Scientologists were
>entering his property. He handled it the american way. (almost; since
>the american way is to shoot trespassers first, in self-defence)
Actually, it is unlawful in most parts of the United States to use
deadly force to repel trespassers to land.
Kelly
Tilman Hausherr
<m1k8gdg...@poverty.bloomington.in.us>:
Hahaha. Tell this to the parents of that japanese student who just
wanted to ask directions.
Blue Xenu
says...
>
>On 29 May 2000 14:35:21 -0500, ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us wrote in
><m13dn1i...@poverty.bloomington.in.us>:
>
>>On Mon, 29 May 2000 20:52:42 +0200, Thomas Gandow <gan...@is.in-berlin.de> said:
>>
>>>I guess, it was in defending his house and garden against unlegal
>>>invaders.
>>
>>Bob Minton's picket sign assaults occured on city streets.
>
>his property. He handled it the american way. (almost; since the
>american way is to shoot trespassers first, in self-defence)
>
>same.
>
>[wacky accusations deleted]
>
>Kelly, what's up? Has your irc personality portfolio got empty, so that
>you do now have to troll the usenet as well?
I happen to like Kelly's irc personality. She has enlightened in several areas
(primarily law and evils of msn) and represents one of the few reasons why I
participate in IRC on #scientology. She is most definitely not a troll. You
on the other hand ......
>
>Tilman
Pointing a shotgun at someone is not authorized for defending personal property;
deadly force is allowed only for self defense (and only after "retreating" from
the situation). "Self defense" usually means that one fears for his/her life or
someone else in a given situation. From what I have read of the incident, I
don't think Bob was justified in using deadly force.
>
>
>
>--
>Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
>til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.xenu.de
>
> Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
>
>Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
>The Xenu bookstore: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
"The most exhausting thing in life is being insincere." --Anne Morrow Lindbergh
ptsc
>"Lets rather say he replaced genocide with collateral damage. And as
>we know now, the so-called "master plan" of the serbs was bogus,
>similar to the "Najirah" story in the gulf war. This is not to say
>that there wasn't genocide, but the story of a "master plan" was
>bogus."
>Of course, no one but Tilman mentions any such "master plan," or
>appears to consider the absence of any such "master plan" as a
>reason for Western Europe to insist that the United States fight
>NATO's battles single-handed.
As usual, you're full of shit, and arrogant about it, too.
BBC World (documentary report), on 22 April 1999 used
the phrase "master plan."
With war almost a month old, Western media focussed attention
on what was described as the Yugoslav dictator's "master plan"6
for the ethnic Albanian populated province. The Yugoslav strategy,
outlined in graphic detail in the allegedly secret Operation
Horseshoe, was to encircle Kosovo with troops from the north,
north-east and north-west, force as much of the civilian population
to flee the province, but to leave open strategic escape routes
enabling the flood of refugees to exit into Macedonia and Albania.7
While Western observers have reported shock and horror at the
speed at which the province was depopulated and its resources
looted, Yugoslav officials were on record well prior to 24 March
1999 with not so subtle hints that there would be little or no
resistance in the event of an aggression against the Kosovar
population. That is, while the official Yugoslav media has been
replete with references to the "terrorist" Kosovo Liberation
Army (KLA) and comments about "ethnic Albanian terrorist
gangs….kill[ing] innocent civilians in order to make non-ethnic
Albanians leave the province"8 , high level officials did not
hide the fact that the Albanian population in Kosovo was
largely if not entirely civilian and little capable of standing
up to serious force. For his part, Dragan Tomic, Serbia's
parliamentary speaker, spoke up about the threat of the
KLA nearly three months prior to the NATO action,
observing "They [the Kosovars] are no force at all, as the
terrorists were defeated…"9
6 BBC World (documentary report), 22 April 1999.
7 Id.
8 Tanjug, 6 December 1998. Cited also in Fear
and Loathing in Belgrade: What the Serbian State
Media Say About Kosovars (ICG Yugoslavia
Briefing), 26 January 1999.
9 Borba, 4 January 1999.
10 Belgrade-Podgorica, 12 May 1999
Milosevic's Aims in War and Diplomacy
http://www.intl-crisis-group.org/projects/sbalkans/reports/yu07main.htm
ptsc
>This bogus "honor" smacks of anti-American hype and an
>incredibly poor understanding of what constitutes good public
>relations.
If it's anti-American hype then why are about half of the
supporters Americans?
ptsc
ptsc
Beverly Rice wrote in message <39325A...@ao.net>...
>ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us wrote:
>> Doesn't that amount to the same thing?
>> Uniformity of opinion is required.
>Try reading the NG a little longer.
Not to comment on this thread, but, umm, Kelly has been
here for QUITE some time. Since the beginning in fact.
ptsc
ptsc
>Pointing a shotgun at someone is not authorized for defending personal
property;
>deadly force is allowed only for self defense (and only after "retreating"
from
>the situation). "Self defense" usually means that one fears for his/her
life or
>someone else in a given situation. From what I have read of the incident,
I
>don't think Bob was justified in using deadly force.
"Deadly force" is a very specific term. It refers to force which is likely
to cause death or grave physical injury. Firing a shotgun in the air
is not likely to do this. I am also not aware that Minton pointed the
shotgun at the mob of insane cultists trespassing on his property
in a disorderly and threatening manner.
The word you are looking for is "brandishing."
ptsc
Blue Xenu
Okay. Well, I have received instruction (from the various state approved CCW
courses I have taken) that intentionally "brandishing" a firearm is considered
assault with a deadly weapon. For instance, it is illegal for a private citizen
to brandish a firearm to deter a thief from stealing one's car.
>
>ptsc
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>"Deadly force" is a very specific term. It refers to force which is
>likely to cause death or grave physical injury. Firing a shotgun in
>the air is not likely to do this.
Indeed, firing a shotgun into the air is not deadly force. It can,
however, be criminal recklessness, and is illegal within the limits of
virtually every city. Minton got away with it because nobody was
apparently hurt by falling shot and because his residence is
apparently outside city limits.
It is legal to threaten the use of deadly force to repel trespassers
to land, but not to actually use it. The merits of this rule have
been debated over the years, but it remains the law.
Kelly
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us
>Okay. Well, I have received instruction (from the various state
>approved CCW courses I have taken) that intentionally "brandishing" a
>firearm is considered assault with a deadly weapon. For instance, it
>is illegal for a private citizen to brandish a firearm to deter a
>thief from stealing one's car.
The use of deadly force or the threat of deadly force in defense of
personal property is forbidden. Different rules apply to the defense
real property (threat of deadly force allowed, but not deadly force
itself) and to the defense of persons (deadly force allowed when self
or third person threatened with deadly force).
Kelly
ptsc
>In article <8guuo...@news1.newsguy.com>, "ptsc" says...
>>"Deadly force" is a very specific term. It refers to force which is
likely
>>to cause death or grave physical injury. Firing a shotgun in the air
>>is not likely to do this. I am also not aware that Minton pointed the
>>shotgun at the mob of insane cultists trespassing on his property
>>in a disorderly and threatening manner.
>>The word you are looking for is "brandishing."
>Okay. Well, I have received instruction (from the various state approved
CCW
>courses I have taken) that intentionally "brandishing" a firearm is
considered
>assault with a deadly weapon. For instance, it is illegal for a private
citizen
>to brandish a firearm to deter a thief from stealing one's car.
That depends on your state. In Texas, one can use deadly force to protect
property if "one reasonably believes that the property cannot be
protected or recovered by any other means."
To be precise, you would not merely be justified in brandishing a
weapon against someone stealing your car, but it would even be
legal to shoot the fucker.
ptsc
ptsc
>As a minister of the gospel can you honestly encourage others to
>take as a role model a man who has made the following comments
>(and others like them) to women who have done him no harm?
>The man [appearing as "Mittens" in the presence of numerous
>witnesses] has stated:
><Mittens> Lick the dog shit form my shows you fucking cult whore
><Mittens> Deana shut the fuck up you foul bitch
[Various other comments]
And the holier-than-thou hypocrite Diane Richardson, on the
same forum, has stated:
dianer: Dear, dear, Deirdre. You have a lot to learn
about Keith's testicles.
dianer: In fact, I'd be willing to bet that there's an
awful lot you don't know about anyone's testicles.
dianer: Including those of your dead (what was he --
third? fourth?) husband.
dianer: Should I include that husband of yours who had
the sex change operation as an "ex", Deirdre, or should I count him as a
girlfriend?
dianer: Looks to me as though you've collected yourself
just about as many ex-husbands as you collected ex-
religions.
dianer: What's wrong, Deirdre, did that cat run down the
hall with your tongue?
dianer: Or was it your testicles he ran away with.
dianer: When you get right down to it, Deirdre has the
courage of her convictions. It's just that she really
doesn't have any convictions.
dianer: She's here to socialize, folks. 20
dianer: And she just *loves* to talk behind people's
backs.
dianer: It's so much more fun that way.
dianer: That way they don't have an oppotunity to talk
back. That gets bothersome.
dianer: Especially when you spread lies and filth about
people.
dianer: That may be a problem for Deirdre, Xmudder, but
I've never had any difficulty being able to tell when I'm
sitting at the keyboard with my hands on my keyboard.
dianer: I can guarantee that Deirdre's never been a
stripper, "ungly" or not!
dianer: Just goes to show you that you can't always
believe what you hear on IRC.
dianer: What about you, Xmudder? I heard that you're
Deirdre's second husband. The one who had the sex change
operation while you were married to her. A newbie told
me that on IRC today. Is it true?
dianer: I've seen the information about your marital
status on a web page, too!
dianer: Isn't that fascinating?
dianer: When did you have you sex change operation,
Xmudder?
dianer: Was it *before* or *after* you tried fucking the
pig?
dianer: Johns Hopkins stopped doing those more than 20
years ago, Xmudder.
dianer: You're not even good at lying.
dianer: No, I'm not referring to your ex, the pig. Did
you marry both Deirdre *and* a pig? At the same time?
dianer: Or was it Deirdre who was fucking the pig?
Blue Xenu
Blue Xenu
ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us says...
>>approved CCW courses I have taken) that intentionally "brandishing" a
>>firearm is considered assault with a deadly weapon. For instance, it
>>is illegal for a private citizen to brandish a firearm to deter a
>>thief from stealing one's car.
>
>personal property is forbidden. Different rules apply to the defense
>real property (threat of deadly force allowed, but not deadly force
>itself) and to the defense of persons (deadly force allowed when self
>or third person threatened with deadly force).
>
>Kelly
Okay, I understand. The bottom line is that people should be more level headed
when they start pulling out/brandishing their firearms.
Jack Craver
>Diane Richardson wrote in message <393318dd...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>
>>As a minister of the gospel can you honestly encourage others to
>>take as a role model a man who has made the following comments
>>(and others like them) to women who have done him no harm?
>
>>The man [appearing as "Mittens" in the presence of numerous
>>witnesses] has stated:
>
>><Mittens> Lick the dog shit form my shows you fucking cult whore
>><Mittens> Deana shut the fuck up you foul bitch
>
>
>[Various other comments]
>
>And the holier-than-thou hypocrite Diane Richardson, on the
>same forum, has stated:
>
Since Diane's not receiving any "Human Rights Award" in Germany,
what's the purpose of your post?
For another look at A.R.S.:
see http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm
Best of luck
jack
ptsc
>What you have failed to post is the comments Deirdre made
>before I responded, ptsc.
Just like you did. It's easy enough to find the whole
log, anyway. Just look for "fucking the pig" on Deja
on ars.
I don't buy your "we were joking" haha excuse either.
ptsc
Blue Xenu
>
>Blue Xenu <Blue_...@newsguy.com> posted:
>
>>In article <sj355a9...@corp.supernews.com>, Keith says...
>>>
>>>On Sun, 28 May 2000 15:24:05 -0400, Joe's Garage
>>> <Pine.LNX.3.96.100052...@darkstar.zippy> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 ref...@bway.net wrote:
>>>>...
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>>>>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>>>>> award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>>>>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>>>>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>>>
>>>Diane attacks with a screaming MX missile.
>>>
>>>http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame20.html
>>
>>You're the the biggest fucking asshole there is.
>
>"Blue Xenu"--Thrill Kill Kult reference?
Maybe. Actually, I just like the way it sounds.
>
>--
>tinmi...@hotmail.com
>
>I saw
>many people
>reduced to
>incoherent babbling,
>stripping off clothes,
>crawling around on the ground,
>banging heads, limbs and other body parts
>against furniture and walls,
>barking,
>losing all sense of one's identity
>and intense and persistent suicidal ideation.
>
>--Declaration of Andre Tabayoyon
>
>If you imagine 40-50 Scientologists
>posting on the Internet every few days,
>we'll just run the SP's right off the system.
>It will be quite simple, actually.
>
>--Elaine Siegel, OSA INT (1996)
>
>Case 5/BTLA/SP2
"Here's to my absent friends--fuck 'em!" --Frank Sinatra
Gerry Armstrong
wrote:
>On Mon, 29 May 2000 12:23:32 +0200, Thomas Gandow
><gan...@is.in-berlin.de> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Diane Richardson schrieb:
>>> I still
>>> find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>>> Diane Richardson
>>> ref...@bway.net
>>
>>The award winners of the "Aachner Karlspreis" were intended by the
>>initiators of the award to be "role models who evoke imitation."
>
>And so you believe Robert S. Minton is a worthier role model
>than William Jefferson Clinton????
We who oppose fair game would love for there to be a thousand Bob
Mintons. So yes, he evokes imitation.
Those who live by fair game might love for there to be a thousand
Diane Richardsons.
>
>I'm beginning to understand your actions much better now.
>Thanks for the clarification.
In yo' endo; is that what your saying?
>
>>It depends on Your own standpoint and off course on Clintons
>>credibility, if You respect and distinguish that Clinton as a student
>>"did not inhale" as he said. May be, that this for some people could be
>>a "role model, who evokes imitation", not to inhale as a student.
>
>I see. You think that it is better to have people imitate Robert S.
>Minton's actions than William Jefferson Clinton's actions. Thanks
>for making your opinion clear on that point.
Clinton is a big supporter of fair game (whether or not he knows it is
for him to communicate some day) so yes, it is better to have people
imitate Bob Minton's actions.
Bob is fair game. The issue is fair game. Are you opposed to fair
game? Or do you support fair game, perhaps by attacking those who are
fair game and oppose it?
Have you ever considered confronting fair game rather than doing what
you do about it.
>
>>But I will not respect him as a "role model who evokes imitation", if he
>>as an adult not even knows for which purpose cigars are made.
>
>But you DO believe Minton's actions of shooting off a shotgun
>over the heads of scientologists and hitting them with picket
>signs are actions worthy of emulation.
The shotgun blast took less than a second. The hit with a picket sign
took a second. It's the rest of the time which is important. What goes
through time? Why do you focus on what took no time? Fair game goes
through time. Focus on fair game. Can you?
>I didn't realize you
>equated such activities with defending human rights. I guess
>it must be a cultural thing.
That's a particularly $cientological thing. Appearing to be dense. You
don't fool anyone by pretending to be dense.
>
>Thank you so much for giving everyone a very clear explanation
>of the reasoning behind the development and presentation of
>your bogus award.
Now I know you're a liar. The award may not be what you'd like it be
but it isn't bogus.
If you're using bogus in the sense I'm using it, then you are by your
own definition bogus. The award is not bogus because it is precisely
what it says it is.
What precisely do you say you are?
> I think the public now has a much better
>understanding of where you and your colleagues are coming
>from.
Do you now? Where do think I'm coming from, Diane?
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
>
>Diane Richardson
>ref...@bway.net
>
Gerry Armstrong
wrote:
>On Mon, 29 May 2000 07:59:01 -0400, Beverly Rice <dbj...@ao.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Thomas Gandow wrote:
>>
>>> It depends on Your own standpoint and off course on Clintons
>>> credibility, if You respect and distinguish that Clinton as a student
>>> "did not inhale" as he said. May be, that this for some people could be
>>> a "role model, who evokes imitation", not to inhale as a student.
>>
>>> But I will not respect him as a "role model who evokes imitation", if he
>>> as an adult not even knows for which purpose cigars are made.
>>
>>Everyone here on the NG ~KNOWS~ the depths that Co$ will sink
>>to in order to "Black PR" a person who does openly oppose them
>>and their criminality, fraud, lies, deception, harassment,
>>intimidation and abuse.
>
>I'm never really sure anymore whether it is you (Beverly) writing
>or Gerry Armstrong. I'll work on the assumption that Beverly
>wrote this message.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Let's see what this is all about? Who's this
writing, you (Diane) or Garry Scarff.
>
>>I can see why Clinton would totally support them 100% with his
>>every breath (inhale).
>
>What makes you think Clinton totally supports (100%) the
>Church of Scientology? Has it occurred to you that Clinton
>might be totally supporting (100%) the First Amendment of
>the United States Constitution instead?
And could it be his, Clinton's, support for the First Amendment is a
fraud?
But the issue is not Clinton's sex life or his filthy mouth, it's fair
game.
>
>>Can you even ~imagine~ the DA pack that the Co$ would set
>>loose on Clinton if he openly opposed their illegal actions!!!
>
>Oh, come now, Beverly. If you honestly think the Church of
>Scientology can do a better job of DAing President Clinton than
>the right-wing loonies have done, you've lost all touch with
>reality.
Do you claim that the people in government in the U.$. who oppose or
criticize President Clinton have the same black propaganda philosophy,
policies and practices as the $cientology organization?
>
>>It would make all his other enemies and opposition look like
>>~AMATEURS~, and I bet you he knows this 100%!!
>
>Well, I guess you are delusional, after all. The resources,
>talent, and brains used by the right-wing loonies in an effort
>to unseat the President make anything OSA might try look
>downright amateurish. I think you've gone over the edge
>on this one. Have you lost all perspective?
Have you? Are you saying that O$A uses the same black propaganda
philosophy, policies and practices on fair game's opponents and
critics as the right-wing loonies use in their efforts to unseat
President Clinton?
Seems to me you've made the case for why Bob Minton should be honored
with an award.
What opponent of $cientology fair game has the resources of the
President of the Unitred $tates to oppose it? Not one, until Bob
Minton came along, and helped fair game opponents survive and now even
organiize to combat fair game.
I'll bet you, Diane, have given no support whatsoever to fair game's
targets. You don't support me in the tiniest way, do you? You even
attack me out of the blue in this post. And you attack my friend
Beverly, just for being my friend.
>
>>I guess being in bed with the Co$ is more or less a survival
>>tactic on his part.
>
>What exactly makes you believe Clinton is "in bed" with the
>Church of Scientology?
You be the devil's advocate Diane. You develop whatever evidence there
is that indicates that Clinton, or any U$ government person or entity
for that matter, supports $cientology. Or do you insist, having looked
at all data, all possible evidence, that there is absolutely no
evidence that Clinton, or any U$ government person or entity, supports
$cientology?
You know what there is. Be an honest researcher. Put together your
evidence. Do some work for a change.
Gerry Armstrong
>On Mon, 29 May 2000 20:52:42 +0200, Thomas Gandow <gan...@is.in-berlin.de> said:
>
>>I guess, it was in defending his house and garden against unlegal
>>invaders.
>
>Bob Minton's picket sign assaults occured on city streets.
>
>His threat to mutilate a young woman took place over the Internet.
OK, let's assume everything in everyone's past. Has it made a particle
of difference? No! The issue is fair game plain and simple.
>
>Does this fall within defending one's property?
>
>I'm also curious how Bob Minton's extramarital philandering is any
>less objectionable than Clinton's.
Let's just say whatever it is is equally bad, that is equally
objectionable, as Clinton's. That's why Bob should equally get an
award. And it should be equally big. And we should make an equally big
deal of it. And have a celebration in every way equal to Clinton's.
Isn't that clear?
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
>Kelly
Gerry Armstrong
>On 29 May 2000 14:35:21 -0500, ke...@poverty.bloomington.in.us wrote in
><m13dn1i...@poverty.bloomington.in.us>:
>
>>On Mon, 29 May 2000 20:52:42 +0200, Thomas Gandow <gan...@is.in-berlin.de> said:
>>
>>>I guess, it was in defending his house and garden against unlegal
>>>invaders.
>>
>>Bob Minton's picket sign assaults occured on city streets.
>
>TG was talking about the shotgun incident. Scientologists were entering
>his property. He handled it the american way. (almost; since the
>american way is to shoot trespassers first, in self-defence)
Anti-oppositionists always want to make Bob into a religious figure.
He's more of a general. I'm more of a religious figure. It would be
way out of character for me to blast away at the $cientologists with a
shotgun, and it would be very restrained of General Bob to caution the
$cientology intruders with a shot in the air. The $cientologists
should be thanking their lucky stars plus Bob that so far, Howd's
protestations notwithstanding, no one has gotten hurt.
Now $cientology, under the direction of all of you who read this
newsgroup, you must communicate with those who oppose your fair game
doctrine. Only your willfulness has kept you from communicating with
those who oppose fair game. Fortunately, your willfulness is
completely under your control. You can communicate any time you stop
being willful, any time you stop fair game. As long as you don't
communicate, we who oppose fair game know that you haven't stopped.
>
>If Bob Minton would enter a scientology property, they would do the
>same.
Yes, Bob is at considerable risk from the $cientologists and their
agents wherever he goes. An "unauthorized entry" by Bob onto their
property would be for $cientology an opportunity for physical
aggression.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
>[wacky accusations deleted]
>
>Kelly, what's up? Has your irc personality portfolio got empty, so that
>you do now have to troll the usenet as well?
>
>Tilman
Rebecca Hartong
"Diane Richardson" <ref...@bway.net> wrote in message
news:39328113...@enews.newsguy.com...
> On 28 May 2000 19:27:15 -0700, Arnie Lerma <www.lermanet.com>
> <Arnie_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > Then you have no problem at all about Bill Clinton being on the phone
> > with senate armed services committe chairman, Senator Dick Armey
> > discussing sending us soldiers to Mogadishu
> > while monica was on her hands and knees giving him a blow job?
> ^^^^^
> I didn't realize Clinton was so short, arnie.
Maybe it's not that Clinton's so short, maybe it's that he's so.....long.
;-)
Diane Richardson
These are "Americans" like Arnie Lerma who believe President
Clinton's marital infidelities are more important to this nation than
Clinton's policies.
Arnie Lerma is more than willing to disparage the land of his
birth just for the opportunity of being able to write "blow job"
on this newsgroup. His isn't intelligent enough to understand
foreign policy; his idea of government is jacking off while he
fantasizes about Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton together
in the oval office.
Lerma's idea of a "good, patriotic American" is Willis Carto,
the major force behind most of the neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic groups
in this country. Fortunately for this country, Lerma is too stupid
to be taken seriously by 99 percent of the population.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
<gan...@is.in-berlin.de> wrote:
>
>
>Diane Richardson schrieb:
>>
>> On Mon, 29 May 2000 12:13:23 +0200, Thomas Gandow
>> <gan...@is.in-berlin.de> wrote:
>>
>> >Diane Richardson schrieb:
>> >> On Fri, 26 May 2000 22:05:33 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>> >> Hausherr) wrote:
>> >> >On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:12 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>> >> ><392eaca6...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>> >> >>On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>> >> >>Hausherr) wrote:
>> >> >>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, ref...@bway.net wrote in
>> >> >>><392d9266...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>> >>
>> >> >>What has Robert S. Minton done to render "distinguished service on
>> >> >>behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
>> >
>> >Here is the answer:
>> >Bob Minton, steered by his courage and sense of civil duty, has
>> >distinguished himself in human rights in the USA and around the world by
>> >his involvement with the persecuted minority of former Scientology
>> >Organization (SO) members who have been attacked by the SO, and with
>> >U.S. society, which is at risk to the totalitarian influences of the SO.
>>
>> And just what does this have to do with Western European unification?
>
>We live now ten Years after.
>There is no "Wester European Unification, but a European Union.
That is correct. How, exactly, has Robert S. Minton encouraged the
European Union?
>> >By our recognition, we wish to show our support for the American people
>> >and to put an end to human rights
>> >violations which are being committed by the Scientology Organization
>> >against citizens of the USA and other
>> >countries.
>>
>> And just what does this have to do with Western European unification?
>
>See above. It is our european concern, f.e. when the president of an
>allied country is writing articles for a totalitarion cults magazin.
I do not know what "president of an allied country" you are referring
to. Would you care to be more specific? The president of which
allied country? What "totalitarian cults magazin" has this unnamed
"president of an allied country" written articles for? Specifics,
please (that is, if you have any).
>> >One mor notion: There is now no West European Unification, but only one
>> >Europe, and severral countries, not only in Western Europe, have
>> >problems with the totalitarian Scientology-Organisation.
>>
>> And what has Bob Minton done to further the unification of Europe?
>We will see, how the event we will celebrate on saturday will not only
>strenghten european unity towards Scientology, but also tranatlantic
>cooperation to end totalitarian influence on politics.
Perhaps you will see something; I doubt if many others will see
anything but a group of fanatical right-wing nuts making a spectacle
of themselves. All in the name of Jesus, no doubt.
>> >> >>>There is an official
>> >> >>>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to
>> >> >>>human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
>> >> >>
>> >
>> >Hier is an exerpt of the Official "Urkunde".
>> >http://194.245.36.141/karlspreis2000/urkundentext.htm
>> >It reads like this:
>> >In Würdigung der partnerschaftlichen Zusammenarbeit
>> >mit den europäischen Staaten zur Erweiterung und Vertiefung der Union,
>> >der *Wahrung der Menschenrechte und der Freiheit*,
>> >sowie als Dank der Europäer an das amerikanische Volk für
>> >den Aufbau der Demokratie und des Wohlstandes nach 1945.
>> >
>> >> I still
>> >> find your disparagement of President Clinton offensive.
>> >
>> >The "Aachen Charlemagne Award" was meant to distinguish people who
>> >*promote* democracy, human rights and the common values of Europe.
>> >The prize is bestowed yearly "for the most valuable contribution in the
>> >service of the European Union, and for community work in the service of
>> >humanity and world peace."
>>
>> Just what has Minton contributed "in the service of the European
>> Union"?
>Have You not got the point, that all european countries do not like
>totalitarian SO?
You've made that point quite clear, "reverend." What is not at all
clear is how awarding a bogus "prize" to a person who flagrantly
publicizes his adultery, offends women with his obscene remarks,
and shows absolutely no regard for humanity in any form is somehow
supposed to be considered a role model. Perhaps those who profess
Christianity in Germany have a different take on Christian values. Is
that it?
As a minister of the gospel can you honestly encourage others to
take as a role model a man who has made the following comments
(and others like them) to women who have done him no harm?
The man [appearing as "Mittens" in the presence of numerous
witnesses] has stated:
<Mittens> Lick the dog shit form my shows you fucking cult whore
<Mittens> Deana shut the fuck up you foul bitch
<Mittens> Karl Kluge can suck my asshole
<Mittens> Diane, I fuck you in the ear and puke on your pock marked
face you slut
<Mittens> Suck my dog shit Deana
<Mittens> Diane but i keep you ass my ass licker too
<Mittens> innie/vagina/cunt/field of Venus is an occassionally useful
description of the four horsewomen
<Mittens> if my ear were a cunt I could fuck it!
<Mittens> Whose cock was so long he could suck it
<barb> Some people just cant seem to ignore bob
<Mittens> Barb, they worship me
<barb> I know. they wish they WERE you
<Mittens> fuck off Diane she won't speak to a cunt like you
<Mittens> Darnitrol you stupid cocksucker Don't cum back
<Mittens> Diane lick the dog shit off of my boots
<Mittens> Diane you suck the cock of your principles
<Mittens> bivalve and Diane suck the cock of each others principles
<Mittens> well guys, i'm gonna leave you in peace while I go fuck some
OSA whores :-)
Is this the kind of man you want your children to grow up imitating?
Is this the kind of language you preach in your pulpit? Is this the
spirit you wish the world to embrace and honor?
If you wish to see more of the language by the man you honor
as a role model worthy of emulation by others, I will gladly provide
it for you. There are many, many people here who have witnessed
such behavior from this man you choose to honor.
>Heve You not read the resolutions of european parlament?
I have had the experience of this "role model" tossing vile, offensive
taunts at numerous women. This is the man you wish to honor as a
role model. I spit on your award, sir, and I spit on your notion of
"human rights."
>> >Certainly promotion of Scientology is against the will and interest of
>> >all european states, see reports about the Scientology-Problems in
>> >Spain, Italy, France, Germany Russia to mention only a few.
>> >
>> >If a foreign government furthers and promotes an organisation in Your
>> >country, which You and Your government and the European Council and the
>> >european Parlament see as conflictous if not criminal and against
>> >constitution is that a valuable contribution in the service of European
>> >Union or mixing in internal affairs?
>>
>> No foreign government is furthering and promoting Scientology.
>I guess, You write from the United States. Therefore You are right.
>But sorry, from my perspective, the Clinton Administration is a foreign
>government.
Would you kindly provide evidence that the Clinton Adminstration is
"furthering and promoting Scientology"?
>> >And even if Scientology was a religion, is promotion of a "religion" by
>> >President and State Department not against Your own Constitution or the
>> >First Amendement?
>>
>> The President and State Department are not promoting Scientology.
>
>So?
So, you are in error, sir. If you choose to make such accusations you
should expect to be challenged to defend them.
>Probably You should buy a newspaper or at least read "Freedom magazin"
I read the New York Times daily, sir. I'd suggest you read something
a little more objective than "Freedom magazin." I find it biased and
untruthful. If you choose to use "Freedom magazin" as your source of
news, you are surely in worse shape than I thought.
>
>> Did you really just come up with this
>> just because
>> Minton's name rhymes with Clinton's?
>
>It's funny, isn't it?
I don't find it funny at all.
>> I find this whole charade to be a horrifically unsophisticated public
>> relations effort
>
>But it works.
It certainly isn't working here. Perhaps the good citizens of Leipzig
are less discriminating than people in the rest of the world.
>> that reveals just how narrow-minded anticultists can
>> become.
>Why complaining, when the other side makes a point?
The only point you have made, sir, is that you -- as a minister
of the gospel -- are encouraging people to emulate the behavior
of a man who has proven to be violent, abusive, and profane.
If that's the sort of "religion" you preach from your pulpit, I want
no part of it.
>> Perhaps you feel Scientology is the greatest threat to
>> humankind, but you're not going to convince many others
>
>Time will show. Nazism lasted 12 Years. Communism started 70 Years and
>ruled 70 Years. Stupid totalitarin Systems have no chance in history.
Of course they don't. And no matter how hard you try to turn the
"pig's ear" named Robert S. Minton into a "silk purse," you're going
to still end up with pig all over yourself.
I sincerely hope you are not typical of the rest of the German clergy.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
>
>> Diane Richardson
>> ref...@bway.net
>
>Why so nervous Diane?
I'm not nervous at all, "reverend." I'm curious, however, as to how
a minister can encourage people to say things like:
<Mittens> Suck my dog shit Deana
Is that something you have your congregation recite in unison in
honor of your hero?
>Thomas Gandow
>
mimus
>In article <sj355a9...@corp.supernews.com>, Keith says...
>>
>>On Sun, 28 May 2000 15:24:05 -0400, Joe's Garage
>> <Pine.LNX.3.96.100052...@darkstar.zippy> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 ref...@bway.net wrote:
>>>...
>>>>
>>>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered
>>>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights
>>>> award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in
>>>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your
>>>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>>
>>Diane attacks with a screaming MX missile.
>>
>>http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame20.html
>
>You're the the biggest fucking asshole there is.
"Blue Xenu"--Thrill Kill Kult reference?
--
Diane Richardson
>Diane Richardson wrote in message <393318dd...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>
>>As a minister of the gospel can you honestly encourage others to
>>take as a role model a man who has made the following comments
>>(and others like them) to women who have done him no harm?
>
>>The man [appearing as "Mittens" in the presence of numerous
>>witnesses] has stated:
>
>><Mittens> Lick the dog shit form my shows you fucking cult whore
>><Mittens> Deana shut the fuck up you foul bitch
>
>
>[Various other comments]
>
>And the holier-than-thou hypocrite Diane Richardson, on the
>same forum, has stated:
>
>dianer: Dear, dear, Deirdre. You have a lot to learn
>about Keith's testicles.
What you have failed to post is the comments Deirdre made
before I responded, ptsc.
You've also failed to report that XMudder himself denounced
the posting of this log and made it quite clear that he and I
were joking. But you'd prefer not to let others know about
that.
What's the matter? Are you afraid to post the entire log?
If that happened, you wouldn't be quite so capable of making
things look the way you want them to look, would you?
Selective editing IS so convenient now, isn't it? :-)
I'll be sure to include entire logs of Robert S. Minton's comments,
rather than just including Minton's own words. That way, we can
all be sure everyone knows just what behavior the Rev. Mr.
Gandow wants the world to imitate.
Shall I start with Robert S. Minton's "wedding announcement"?
Perhaps the Rev. Mr. Gandow would like to perform a wedding
ceremony at the same time as the award.
Oh ... that's right ... that would be bigamy, wouldn't it?
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
>WHN wrote:
>>What you have failed to post is the comments Deirdre made
>>before I responded, ptsc.
>
>Just like you did. It's easy enough to find the whole
>log, anyway. Just look for "fucking the pig" on Deja
>on ars.
No, dear, that isn't the "whole log." That's a log that
was edited by Deirdre before she emailed it out to a
number of people.
You may not be aware that it was XMudder who began
the "fucking the pig" joking rather than I. But you'd prefer
to think I was responsible for that, wouldn't you?
It was edited ... quite heavily so.
>I don't buy your "we were joking" haha excuse either.
That wasn't my "excuse," it was a statement made by the
person Deirdre wanted others to believe I was insulting with my
comments.
Of course, those who wish to make Robert S. Minton a
"role model" for "other people to imitate" (I am quoting here
the words of the "Rev." Thomas Gandow), would prefer
others weren't aware of Robert S. Minton's boorish behavior
towards women.
Once people learn of Minton's behavior towards women,
Bill Clinton's behavior doesn't appear all that terrible, does it?
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Tilman Hausherr
in <8gumao$t...@drn.newsguy.com>:
>Pointing a shotgun at someone is not authorized for defending personal property;
>deadly force is allowed only for self defense (and only after "retreating" from
>the situation). "Self defense" usually means that one fears for his/her life or
>someone else in a given situation. From what I have read of the incident, I
>don't think Bob was justified in using deadly force.
The sheriff thinks he was, since he didn't charge him.
Tilman Hausherr
<8gusg...@news1.newsguy.com>:
No, she appeared maybe a year ago, on irc mostly. Unless she was here
under another name.
Tilman