Groupthink
Monica Pignotti
what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
Here's an excerpt:
"Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to
minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing,
analyzing, and evaluating ideas. During groupthink, members of the
group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus
thinking.
[...]
Symptoms of groupthink
In order to make groupthink testable, Irving Janis devised eight
symptoms that are indicative of groupthink (1977).
1. Illusions of invulnerability creating excessive optimism and
encouraging risk taking.
2. Rationalising warnings that might challenge the group's
assumptions.
3. Unquestioned belief in the morality of the group, causing
members to ignore the consequences of their actions.
4. Stereotyping those who are opposed to the group as weak, evil,
disfigured, impotent, or stupid.
5. Direct pressure to conform placed on any member who questions
the group, couched in terms of "disloyalty".
6. Self censorship of ideas that deviate from the apparent group
consensus.
7. Illusions of unanimity among group members, silence is viewed as
agreement.
8. Mindguards — self-appointed members who shield the group from
dissenting information.
[...]
<snip>
Groupthink is not confined to cults, but can potentially occur to
varying degrees within any society or group of people. A cult could be
said to exhibit a significantly higher degree of Groupthink than the
average within society. Or in other words, a cult is an organisation
primarily devoted to fostering its own particular form of Groupthink."
barb
You think it's a good idea.
Therefore, we're guilty of "groupthink."
Jeez, do you EVAR shut up? Do you have a life? Is there some reason you
keep trying to grab the mic and force everyone to Do It Your Way?
I gotta tell you, aside from a couple of pieces you wrote a million
years ago that were pretty decent, your current stuff smacks of the
Barbera Attention Whore Syndrome.
Agree to disagree, stfu, and move on. Surely you have better things to
do than try to dominate a friggin newsgroup. I mean, you being the
Important Academic and all. You should hook up with Pamela
Lichtenwalner. I swear, you are two legumes sharing a pod!
--
Barb "That's Captain Barbossa to you!"
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
It's Poodlin' Time!
“I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist
so long as we don’t step over the line. When religious worship and
belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and
the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
appropriate.”
--Robert Goff
Professor Emeritus, UCSC
Monica Pignotti
Thanks for the demo of several of the above points.
> Jeez, do you EVAR shut up? Do you have a life? Is there some reason you
> keep trying to grab the mic and force everyone to Do It Your Way?
LOL. You're always here responding to me. You have far more postings
to ARS over the past year than I do.
Why do you try to silence people you don't agree with? Are the only
people with the right to free speech the ones you agree with?
> I gotta tell you, aside from a couple of pieces you wrote a million
> years ago that were pretty decent, your current stuff smacks of the
> Barbera Attention Whore Syndrome.
What your postings smack of isn't fit to print.
> Agree to disagree, stfu, and move on. Surely you have better things to
> do than try to dominate a friggin newsgroup. I mean, you being the
> Important Academic and all. You should hook up with Pamela
> Lichtenwalner. I swear, you are two legumes sharing a pod!
>
> --
> Barb "That's Captain Barbossa to you!"
> Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
> It's Poodlin' Time!
>
> “I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist
> so long as we don’t step over the line. When religious worship and
> belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and
> the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
> appropriate.”
>
> --Robert Goff
> Professor Emeritus, UCSC- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Monica Pignotti
>
yet when we look at the number of posts she has been making to ARS vs.
the number I have, she has me beat by a longshot, every single month.
Barb's posting stats:
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=BLx9DhUAAADITLvfAZe523xtvHVkkaWuv6ZVbJKGbokpZxwW7G4fAA
My posting stats:
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=ck6b0BkAAABhEE_eCJxYdj6lrj-KfWxzwe8XR10nKxLNmKM4FvuV5A
Monica Pignotti
> keep trying to grab the mic and force everyone to Do It Your Way?
One more question, Barb. Where is the "force" in simply posting to a
usenet group? There isn't any. People are free to read my postings or
not, as they see fit. OTOH, when you complain to a university about a
website as you did with Val's and try to shut it down, that I would
call an attempt at force, although you were unsuccessful. It looks to
me like you are accusing me of what you are doing.
barb
are All About Scientology.
Relevant here, as this isn't alt. pompousqueens.monica.
Stats...heh. And it's Thursday, too...
barb
Again, you totally miss the point. Who the fuck is "Val," anyways?
Someone who was posting something that didn't belong on a uni website,
I'll wager.
Jonnie Tyler
news:c1b4509a-e103-4bf7...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
===========
This is a bit unclear. Valerie writes "complained to my university's
webmaster, who decided the page
was not in compliance with their academic mission" - so this implies that
she did have to move the page to another server.
Tom Newton
<c1b4509a-e103-4bf7...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.co
The only 'force' I see being employed on this newsgroup is the
harassment of critics and pro-Scientology posters by 'Anonymous'.
And anyone who is promoting something that the Church of
Scientology promotes, like exposing the flaws in the mainstream
psychotherapy/psychopharmaceutical industry.
The very post you are responding to is an example of them harassing
a critic.
Yet they claim to be defenders of free speech...
Tom
--
The Truth will set you free:
http://www.sethcenter.com
Jonnie Tyler
news:gbcri5x...@treeoflife.3v8l2x.net...
It may be a form of harassment but it is also part of free speech. You just
have to live with this form of harassment if you want to avail your right of
free speech. As long as nobody is being banned from posting, there is no
force involved.
Maureen Drueck
> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink.
According to the backstory, Sparrow was branded a pirate by Beckett
for refusing to transport slaves for the East India Trading Company.
[41]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badge_of_shame
The picket on Saturday was awesome.
The "firm' called $dientology is a brainwashing camp and the wondrous
groupthink that thinks it is a terrible injustice
UNITES with freedom!
argh ye he he!
Maureen
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist.htm
Another long time member noticed the hypnotic effect:
"I was unaware at the time that every time I did TR-O, I was going
into a hypnotic trance state. I only realized this years later, after
leaving the group, when I read about hypnosis and experienced a trance
state from a legitimate psychologist who did hypnosis on me. The state
I was in then was identical to the state I was in when I did TR-O."
-- Monica Pignotti
KING: Heber, please. Caller-
Mr. JENTZSCH: I'm trying to-
KING: Caller, give me one thing Scientology does-
Mr. JENTZSCH: Yes, one thing.
KING: -that's evil.
1st CALLER: What they do is hypnosis through their training routines.
They teach people to shut down and become uncritical and passive and
obedient which-
KING: All right, stop right there. Heber, do you use hypnosis to keep
people in the organization and non-critical?
Mr. JENTZSCH: Absolutely not. The Cult Awareness Network rapes people
because they say- They took a woman and raped her because they said
she was a lesbian so this was therapy-
KING: Hold it. Don't tell me about them. Tell me about you. Do you
hypnotize people-
Mr. JENTZSCH: I'll tell you about me-
KING: -in Scientology?
Mr. JENTZSCH: No, not at all.
KING: You do not use hypnosis? OK.
Mr. JENTZSCH: Listen, but let me just say-
KING: You're saying the caller is totally wrong?
Mr. JENTZSCH: -Steve Hassan makes a fortune off of kidnapping people.
That's what he does and that's what Whitfield does.
KING: OK, Heber. Hold it, hold it, hold it-
Mr. JENTZSCH: They kidnap people.
KING: Hold it, hold it. Stop.
Mr. JENTZSCH: That's terrorist.
KING: The subject is Scientology -
Mr. WHITFIELD: I've never kidnapped anyone.
KING: The subject is Scientology -
Mr. JENTZSCH: That's terrorist.
KING: The subject is Scientology. He made a charge. I asked him to be
specific. He said hypnosis to keep membership in. You say you do not
use hypnosis.
Mr. JENTZSCH: We dehypnotize people, if anything, in life, and we can
handle the problems of people who have been hypnotized.
KING: All right. Were you hypnotized when you were a member, Jerry?
Mr. WHITFIELD: I was. I didn't know it at the time.
KING: Wait a minute.
Mr. WHITFIELD: I thought I wasn't.
KING: What do you mean, you didn't know it?
Mr. WHITFIELD: Because a person can be hypnotized without knowing that
it's hypnosis.
KING: How?
Mr. WHITFIELD: They can be put into a hypnotic trance without being
told that that's what it is, and that's the thing about it is-
KING: Yes, but a great speaker can do that.
Mr. WHITFIELD: That's right.
KING: Hitler hypnotized a crowd, but they weren't hypnotized.
Mr. WHITFIELD: But they followed his suggestions.
KING: They were moved, they believed, they voted, they followed.
Mr. WHITFIELD: They followed his suggestions.
KING: But a political speaker could hypnotize a group. It's not a fair
term to say it's mass hypnosis.
Mr. WHITFIELD: It's not- It's done one-on-one.
Mr. JENTZSCH: With the Army you do the same thing.
Mr. WHITFIELD: It's done on the one-on-one drills in Scientology, and
I didn't know that until five years after I left Scientology. And it's
deceptive and they deny it. Most of the people who deny it do not know
what hypnosis is. They do not know what a trance state is.
KING: If they did that, would you give up your post?
Rev. SILLS: If it was documented that Scientologists or any group-
KING: If it was documented that Scientologists- any group used-
Rev. SILLS: -was involved in hypnosis, I would go after them myself.
KING: OK.
Mr. WHITFIELD: Don, we should talk.
KING: Lancaster, hello.
Mr. JENTZSCH: Yes, and I'll go after the hypnotists in the Cult
Awareness Network. They are the hypnotists in life, Larry. Look,
they're making a lot of money doing this stuff-
KING: Lisa, were you hypnotized?
Ms. HALVERSON: Yes.
Mr. JENTZSCH: -a lot of money.
KING: Lisa?
Ms. HALVERSON: Absolutely
Mr. JENTZSCH: A lot of money.
Ms. HALVERSON: Absolutely. The techniques of counseling and training
in Scientology do have an hypnotic effect. L. Ron Hubbard was a master
hypnotist. Most Scientologists haven't a clue that that's what's
really going on.
Larry King Live, May, 1991
The Church of Scientology: Religion or Business?
John Dorsay
> On Jun 19, 7:38 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink.
> snip
>
> According to the backstory, Sparrow was branded a pirate by Beckett
> for refusing to transport slaves for the East India Trading Company.
> [41]
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badge_of_shame
>
> The picket on Saturday was awesome.
The Anonymous pickets have *all* been awesome.
John
Monica Pignotti
wrote:
> "Monica Pignotti" <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
Oh you're right. I stand corrected, Barb's complaint managed to shut
the website down on the university server, although it looks like she
just set up the website elsewhere so in the end, free speech prevailed.
Monica Pignotti
>
> > My posting stats:
> >http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=ck6b0BkAAABhEE_eCJxY...
>
> Quality is what counts. Your posts are All About Monica. Most of mine
> are All About Scientology.
No, your mostly semi-coherent postings are all about your true
believer mentality and attacking anyone who dares to question it. All
you're doing, Barb is proving my points with every response you make
to me.
> Relevant here, as this isn't alt. pompousqueens.monica.
I think that what you're really bent out of shape about is that you
cannot shut me up as you have temporarily managed to do to other
people elsewhere. If you want to see pompous and controlling look in
the mirror.
> Stats...heh. And it's Thursday, too...
>
> --
> Barb "That's Captain Barbossa to you!"
> Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
> It's Poodlin' Time!
>
> “I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist
> so long as we don’t step over the line. When religious worship and
> belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and
> the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
> appropriate.”
>
> --Robert Goff
> Professor Emeritus, UCSC- Hide quoted text -
>
Monica Pignotti
> On Jun 19, 7:38 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink.
>
> snip
>
> According to the backstory, Sparrow was branded a pirate by Beckett
> for refusing to transport slaves for the East India Trading Company.
> [41]
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badge_of_shame
>
> The picket on Saturday was awesome.
>
> The "firm' called $dientology is a brainwashing camp and the wondrous
> groupthink that thinks it is a terrible injustice
>
> UNITES with freedom!
>
> argh ye he he!
>
them.
Maureen Drueck
Yes, I've been to three and it's history in the making....
Dancing in public isn't a crime either. what fun anon brings... (If
Magoo can dance in Boston, so can anyone, anywhere!) No, the rhythm or
"the wave" of totalitarian subversion has brought the celebration of
free speech right out in public view....
Hard to place a bad name on free and anonymous protected
expression.... well it's our right and due protection,,,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I-b_GJ4ltk
Time to free all reactive banks.... Mr. Banks did!
And one of those green volumes has the confusion rhythm of exec
brainwashing, short corp course...
soon to be renamed "Sings Like Hell"
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/confusion-technique.htm
:-)
Maureen
>
> John
Fredric L. Rice
>Interesting article in Wikipedi
Go take some fucking medication or something. Good fucking grief.
---
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=71238
Scientology smacked down for trying to stop free speech
Maureen Drueck
It's the supermarket jingle generation, where branding and stable
datum seems to echo the same tune, "I'd rather fight than switch."
We are supposed to explain this questionless interrogation, fill in
the blanks, to repeat hyperbole, y'see? It's what feeds it...
maureen
Monica Pignotti
> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >Interesting article in Wikipedi
>
> Go take some fucking medication or something. Good fucking grief.
>
abuse psychiatric meds to silence dissidents.
t_shuffle
"Monica Pignotti" <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
message
news:1be15165-07eb-4862...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com
What is it that's driving you to destroy all of your credibility in one big
drawn out fell swoop?
Nec_V20
wrote:
> "Tom Newton" <t...@server.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:gbcri5x...@treeoflife.3v8l2x.net...
>
>
>
> > On 2008-06-20, in
> > m> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >> On Jun 19, 7:54 pm, barb <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >>> Jeez, do you EVAR shut up? Do you have a life? Is there some
> >>> reason you keep trying to grab the mic and force everyone to
> >>> Do It Your Way?
>
> >> One more question, Barb. Where is the "force" in simply posting
> >> to a usenet group? There isn't any. People are free to read my
> >> postings or not, as they see fit. OTOH, when you complain to
> >> a university about a website as you did with Val's and try to
> >> shut it down, that I would call an attempt at force, although
> >> you were unsuccessful. It looks to me like you are accusing me
> >> of what you are doing.
>
> > The only 'force' I see being employed on this newsgroup is the
> > harassment of critics and pro-Scientology posters by 'Anonymous'.
> > And anyone who is promoting something that the Church of
> > Scientology promotes, like exposing the flaws in the mainstream
> > psychotherapy/psychopharmaceutical industry.
>
> > The very post you are responding to is an example of them harassing
> > a critic.
>
> > Yet they claim to be defenders of free speech...
>
> It may be a form of harassment but it is also part of free speech. You just
> have to live with this form of harassment if you want to avail your right of
> free speech. As long as nobody is being banned from posting, there is no
> force involved.
Jonnie,
a friend of mine, Terril Park was actually banned from
Enturbulation.org it happened on this thread:
http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/questions-re-freezone-1990/
Terril is a Scientologist and has been one for well over 40 years. He
is also a very good friend of mine, and we have had many good and open
discussions about Scientology (he, my girlfriend and I).
If you want to make up your own mind about him, here is a video that
was made when he was protesting the Co$ San Francisco:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1886004394909684676&q=terril+park&ei=oDBbSJLBEI-ciALihcS4Dw
How many Scientologists do you know who are willing to answer
questions as openly as Terril has on the thread and also in the video?
So much for free speech I suppose.
Jonnie Tyler
news:c3a78084-6fec-43d1...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Yes - that's why I decidedly and actively refuse to join any moderated fore
on that subject and the reason why I just stick with ARS, as bad as it
sometimes is. It just is too painful for me to witness that kind of
behavior, especially coming from people who are supposed to know better and
who make of free speech one of their key arguments.
BTW - thanks for the great links.
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> Terril is a Scientologist and has been one for well over 40 years. He
> is also a very good friend of mine, and we have had many good and open
> discussions about Scientology (he, my girlfriend and I).
>
> If you want to make up your own mind about him, here is a video that
>
> How many Scientologists do you know who are willing to answer
> questions as openly as Terril has on the thread and also in the video?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you a freezoner?
t_shuffle
"Nec_V20" <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3a78084-6fec-43d1...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com
Here's Terril Park, pimping the Freezone:
"Since everyone wants some sort of a tangible reality on
abilites gained, I can tell you that I suddenly could communicate
with ants, and tell them to do something, and they would do it.
As well birds coming around and singing for me, of trees, flowers
and grass talking to me. Most importantly it was two way
communication."
He's selling insanity. Sure, it's half price, but it's still poison.
t_shuffle
"Jonnie Tyler" <Barry...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
message
news:%yG6k.126953$Uf4....@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com
> Yes - that's why I decidedly and actively refuse to join
> any moderated fore on that subject and the reason why I
> just stick with ARS, as bad as it sometimes is. It just
> is too painful for me to witness that kind of behavior,
> especially coming from people who are supposed to know
> better and who make of free speech one of their key
> arguments.
> BTW - thanks for the great links.
Just too painful?
R. Hill
Wow.
I wasn't aware. Which country(ies) is(are)(were) abusing "psychiatric
meds" to silence dissidents? I thought "totalitarian dictatorships" were
jailing/executing/rpf'ing... err 'goulaging' dissidents, not drugging
them. Sure the Church of Scientology must have made similar statements,
but I never took them seriously, given that in Scientology, there is
that silly/nonsensical idea that the 'psychs' are at the "root of all evil."
--
Ray
henri
<ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>a friend of mine, Terril Park was actually banned from
>Enturbulation.org it happened on this thread:
>http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/questions-re-freezone-1990/
Wow. What a fucking joke. They claim he isn't responding in enough
detail to questions, then when he does they ban him for "advertising"
which is a flat out lie. They could have at least been honest.
That was a completely absurd ban. Terril Park is a credit to any
forum.
Nec_V20
Nope,
never been in any form of religion or cult. If I were to categorise
myself within any kind of belief structure I would say that it was
most influenced by Utilitarianism in the sense of John Stuart Mill. In
that sense I would describe myself as a Utilitarianist.
Terril and I had some pretty major set-too's in the past, but
gradually over the years, he and I (as was also the case with Claire
and I) found some common ground which was neither Critic nor
Scientologist - just human interaction.
Anyhow, my girlfriend was coming over to visit me (I am living in the
UK at the moment and she is still at home in Germany) and we asked
Terril if he wanted to meet up in London.
He agreed, and I thought that was pretty brave of him, because both my
girlfriend (MissDorfl) and I are pretty much outspoken critics not
only of Co$ but also of Scientology in general. As you can imagine the
totalitarian precepts of Scientology are a socio-political anathema to
a German - especially one of my generation.
We all had an open and frank exchange of views, which we all enjoyed.
There was no awkwardness when we were putting forward out opposing
points of view to each other, basically because I was not there to
change him, and he had no chance of converting us.
Do I like Scientology or consider it to have any merit? No.
Do I like Terril and respect him? Yes.
I don't consider it to be a critic when one confronts Scientology by
basically sticking one's fingers in one's ear and humming very loudly.
t_shuffle
"henri" <he...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:kdfm549ir5h0is95h...@4ax.com
Yeah, he's a huge credit. There'd be nothing at all wrong with anyone buying
into his advertising.
FTSOH
In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
With the Message-ID:
<3bb68710-de04-474e...@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
And the Organization Header: http://groups.google.com.
The famous author: Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net>.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Groupthink:
No, he's in the same country that allows Scientology and other cults to
run prison camps.
Basta moron.
Skipper
<1be15165-07eb-4862...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink. It really seems to fit
> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
Here's one I think is more applicable:
Asshole (or arsehole in British English) is slang for the anus and can
be used to describe an unpleasant person.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole
Pignotti - that's Italian for asshole, no?
FTSOH
In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
With the Message-ID: <200620080017577752%skipSP...@yahoo.not>
And the Organization Header: .
The famous author: Skipper <skipSP...@yahoo.not>.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Groupthink:
>In article
><1be15165-07eb-4862...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink. It really seems to fit
>> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>
>Here's one I think is more applicable:
>
>Asshole (or arsehole in British English) is slang for the anus and can
>be used to describe an unpleasant person.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole
>
>Pignotti - that's Italian for asshole, no?
>
Pignotti Name Meaning and History
Italian: apparently a diminutive of an unrecorded family name Pigno, now
found only as a place name. .
Thinks she knows more than experienced psychs. Hell, she's just an MSW
same as she was back in 1997 btw, she just does not develop at all.
Monica Pignotti, MSW
http://psychjourney_blogs.typepad.com/monica_pignotti_/
One of my current professional missions is to bridge the
Scientist-Practitioner gap that currently exists in the mental health
field. John Riolo has written very eloquently about this problem
elsewhere on psychjourney. I became interested in this issue after having
been extensively involved with Thought Field Therapy (TFT) for seven
years. One year ago I severed my ties with TFT and its Founder because I
could no longer stand by the unwarranted claims that were being made. In
addition to debunking, I am also very interesting in understanding more
about the reasons therapists choose to use these methods in their
practices. It has been my experience that most of these therapists are
well-intentioned, but something has been missed in their training that
they did not learn about the existing empirically supported methods (or,
for some reason choose not to use them). Another question I've been
exploring lately is what, if any, differences exist between these
clinicians and those who choose to use the scientist-practitioner model.
Eldon
>
> Terril is a Scientologist and has been one for well over 40 years.
You really should not lump his life history together like this. He is
now a "Freezone Scientologist." He was into official Scientology for X
years, left the Scientology organization, and has since practiced
Scientology tech in the Freezone for X years.
He
> is also a very good friend of mine, and we have had many good and open
> discussions about Scientology (he, my girlfriend and I).
Yeah, I thought that was a real bad -- well, shitty -- call, and the
moderator has no right to say whether people can show up at a protest
with pro-Freezone picket signs. Terril's explanations were quite
candid and accurate, BTW.
>
> If you want to make up your own mind about him, here is a video that
> was made when he was protesting the Co$ San Francisco:http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1886004394909684676&q=terr...
Eldon
> "henri" <he...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:kdfm549ir5h0is95h...@4ax.com
>
> > On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:28:59 -0700 (PDT), Nec_V20
> > <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>a friend of mine, Terril Park was actually banned from
> >>Enturbulation.org it happened on this thread:
>
> > Wow. What a fucking joke. They claim he isn't
> > responding in enough detail to questions, then when he
> > does they ban him for "advertising" which is a flat out
> > lie. They could have at least been honest.
>
> > That was a completely absurd ban. Terril Park is a
> > credit to any forum.
>
> Yeah, he's a huge credit. There'd be nothing at all wrong with anyone buying
> into his advertising.
Do you think anybody there would have? I think it was pretty clear
where he was coming from.
Eldon
> On Jun 19, 7:38 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink.
>
> snip
>
> According to the backstory, Sparrow was branded a pirate by Beckett
> for refusing to transport slaves for the East India Trading Company.
> [41]
Speaking of pirates, how about these?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edelweiss_Pirates
Eldon
> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >Interesting article in Wikipedi
>
> Go take some fucking medication or something. Good fucking grief.
Oops. That remark may get you your very own "smear campaign"
thread.. ;-)
>
> ---http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=71238
Nec_V20
Eldon,
He started off with Scientology in the early 1960's when there was no
such thing as the FreeZone, which started - if I remember correctly
what he told me - somewhere around 1980.
Eldon
> Monica Pignotti wrote:
> > On Jun 19, 11:17 pm, FR...@SkepticTank.Org (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
> >> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>> Interesting article in Wikipedi
> >> Go take some fucking medication or something. Good fucking grief.
>
> > You're in the wrong country, Fred. Only totalitarian dictatorships
> > abuse psychiatric meds to silence dissidents.
>
> Wow.
>
> I wasn't aware. Which country(ies) is(are)(were) abusing "psychiatric
> meds" to silence dissidents?
I recall that there was a mini-scandal probably 20 years ago when a
woman was given a knockout injection while loudly complaining about
some injustice or other in the Soviet Union. It was captured on film
by a news photographer. But that was a looong time ago.
I know the boy soldiers in Africa were given speed to hop them up, but
of course that isn't a psych drug.
However, Fred said nothing about *silencing* Monica in his post. My
impression was that he felt some medication might improve her
cogency.
> I thought "totalitarian dictatorships" were
> jailing/executing/rpf'ing... err 'goulaging' dissidents, not drugging
> them. Sure the Church of Scientology must have made similar statements,
> but I never took them seriously, given that in Scientology, there is
> that silly/nonsensical idea that the 'psychs' are at the "root of all evil."
That's precisely the Catch-22 that prevents B.S. from getting the help
she needs. I'm beginning to think Monica still retains a bit of the
same bias against psych drugs and psychiatry.
Ted Mayett
<pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>No, your mostly semi-coherent postings are all about your true
>believer mentality and attacking anyone who dares to question it. All
>you're doing, Barb is proving my points with every response you make
>to me.
>
AGAIN. It is not ~everyone~, it is not ~everybody~.
Freudian slips Monica?
--
Ted Mayett
Critical information regarding Scientology:
http://www.solitarytrees.net
Marcolf
>Monica Pignotti wrote:
>> On Jun 19, 7:54 pm, barb <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>> Monica Pignotti wrote:
>>>> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink. It really seems to fit
>>>> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>>> 99% of the people don't want to step in dog shit.
>>> You think it's a good idea.
>>> Therefore, we're guilty of "groupthink."
>>>
>>> Jeez, do you EVAR shut up? Do you have a life? Is there some reason you
>>> keep trying to grab the mic and force everyone to Do It Your Way?
>>>
>>> I gotta tell you, aside from a couple of pieces you wrote a million
>>> years ago that were pretty decent, your current stuff smacks of the
>>> Barbera Attention Whore Syndrome.
>>>
>>> Agree to disagree, stfu, and move on. Surely you have better things to
>>> do than try to dominate a friggin newsgroup. I mean, you being the
>>> Important Academic and all. You should hook up with Pamela
>>> Lichtenwalner. I swear, you are two legumes sharing a pod!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Barb "That's Captain Barbossa to you!"
>>> Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
>>> It's Poodlin' Time!
>>>
>>> “I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist
>>> so long as we don’t step over the line. When religious worship and
>>> belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and
>>> the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
>>> appropriate.”
>>>
>>> --Robert Goff
>>> Professor Emeritus, UCSC- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>> Barbara Graham accuses me of "dominating" ARS and "NEVAR" shutting up,
>> yet when we look at the number of posts she has been making to ARS vs.
>> the number I have, she has me beat by a longshot, every single month.
>>
>> Barb's posting stats:
>> http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=BLx9DhUAAADITLvfAZe523xtvHVkkaWuv6ZVbJKGbokpZxwW7G4fAA
>>
>> My posting stats:
>> http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=ck6b0BkAAABhEE_eCJxYdj6lrj-KfWxzwe8XR10nKxLNmKM4FvuV5A
>>
>>
>>
>Quality is what counts. Your posts are All About Monica. Most of mine
>are All About Scientology.
>
>Relevant here, as this isn't alt. pompousqueens.monica.
>
>Stats...heh. And it's Thursday, too...
Google Video presents:
Idiot reconfigured subject line "Stats Rapper"
http://tinyurl.com/4n9nuj
[<arscc-wdne essential viewing notice>]
snip>
ARS posting statz rappers perform their hit Usenet single. As if posting
stats +/- mean anything ARS centric. Not."
Marcolf
//
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Eldon
Yes, it began during the Snow White debacle, and increased when
Miscavige began attacking the independent mission holders in 1982.
My only point is your semantics. Some poeple who leave call themselves
"Freezone Scientologists," but there is a definite turning point when
they get out, and these are two different classifications, or
Scientology wouldn't be trying to destroy the apostates.
Too bad the Baptist Church didn't file a trademark infringement suit
against Rev. Phelps of Topeka, KS.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iXbWsO4ik&feature=related
Nec_V20
Eldon,
Terril has always been what is known as "Public" he was never on staff
or anywhere near the Sea Org as far as I know. So going from being
involved with Co$ to being involved with the FreeZone was not such a
big break as it might be for others.
He's also a pretty independent type - so he's not really classic
"cult" material.
What was really stupid on the part of Enturbulation.org is that they
have lost an insider source of info who was actually friendly towards
them.
For instance the Channel 4 exposure of Scientology about a year or so
back, Terril had been working with Channel 4 on it, and had told me
about it months before it came out. He asked me to keep it secret and
trusted me that I could keep my mouth shut about it. But in the right
hands, if one had advance knowledge of such a thing one could plan an
"event" to coincide with the airing something like that in future.
Too bad they blew that.
barb
> Maureen Drueck wrote:
>> On Jun 19, 7:38 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink.
>>
>> According to the backstory, Sparrow was branded a pirate by Beckett
>> for refusing to transport slaves for the East India Trading Company.
>> [41]
>>
>
>
> John
Yarrr, mate, but this one ruled, because we were pirates!
And damned good-looking pirates at that! Har!
Hoist the colors!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/xenubarb/SeaAargh039.jpg
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the reply.
Monica Pignotti
The former Soviet Union, to name one. They were well known for
committing dissidents to psychiatric hospitals which, of course, would
include drugging them.
Skipper
<1fe5ad61-a6a5-457a...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Come up to present time. LOL
Monica Pignotti
Wrong, Eldon. There are a number of highly respected psychologists who
have nothing at all to do with Scientology who are speaking out on
abuses of psychiatric drugs. It sounds to me like you are the one who
is retaining your programming, in your automatized assumption that
anyone who criticizes psych drugs is a Scientologist. And you're doing
it again. You're becoming very much like Mary DeMoss used to be when
she harrassed picketers with repeated statements. If you think
repeating the nonsense about me needing psych drugs enough is going to
get people to believe it, think again. You are only exposing yourself
as someone who needs to repeat personal attacks on me -- you're
pathetic, really. No mental health professional I have ever been to
has ever advised me to go on psych drugs, even ones who had
recommended them for others, and yet you, Eldon Braun who have no
mental health credentials and a very long history of being involved
with quackery and questionable practices that you have yet to retract,
have never even met me, presume to know better.
Eldon
> In article
> <1fe5ad61-a6a5-457a-a798-ca4059802...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
I've tried to encourage that, but I get the impression there's a train
wreck on the time track, if you get my drift.
Skipper
<ff81d612-a292-418f...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
What does Monica look like, anyway? I realize there's no hope for her
soul sister Barb Schwartz, but is there any chance Monica could get
laid and cool off a little?
Monica Pignotti
> In article
> <1fe5ad61-a6a5-457a-a798-ca4059802...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
The present time, Skipper, is the behavior that is being repeated
here. The only difference is that thankfully, Eldon Braun and Fred
Rice have no political power who are such pathetic losers they can
think of no other response than to tell me to take psych drugs.
Monica Pignotti
> In article
Another crude, sexist remark that makes unwarranted assumptions.
Monica Pignotti
> In article
>
> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink. It really seems to fit
> > what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>
> Here's one I think is more applicable:
>
> Asshole (or arsehole in British English) is slang for the anus and can
> be used to describe an unpleasant person.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole
>
> Pignotti - that's Italian for asshole, no?
Sorry to disappoint you but Pignotti means "little pine tree" in
Italian and much to the surprise of juvenile teasers, the "G" is
silent in the Italian.
> > primarily devoted to fostering its own particular form of Groupthink."- Hide quoted text -
R. Hill
> On Jun 20, 5:37 am, Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 20, 6:57 am, "R. Hill" <rh...@xenu-directory.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Monica Pignotti wrote:
>>>> On Jun 19, 11:17 pm, FR...@SkepticTank.Org (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
>>>>> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Interesting article in Wikipedi
>>>>> Go take some fucking medication or something. Good fucking grief.
>>>> You're in the wrong country, Fred. Only totalitarian dictatorships
>>>> abuse psychiatric meds to silence dissidents.
<snip>
>>> I thought "totalitarian dictatorships" were
>>> jailing/executing/rpf'ing... err 'goulaging' dissidents, not drugging
>>> them. Sure the Church of Scientology must have made similar statements,
>>> but I never took them seriously, given that in Scientology, there is
>>> that silly/nonsensical idea that the 'psychs' are at the "root of all evil."
>> That's precisely the Catch-22 that prevents B.S. from getting the help
>> she needs. I'm beginning to think Monica still retains a bit of the
>> same bias against psych drugs and psychiatry.
>
> Wrong, Eldon. There are a number of highly respected psychologists who
> have nothing at all to do with Scientology who are speaking out on
> abuses of psychiatric drugs.
The problem with your statement is that I see this as supportive of the
scientologist cultic views by going along their conspiracy theories that
medication abuses is part of a plot to enslave people. You stated that
"*only* totalitarian dictatorships *abuses* psychiatric meds."
<snip>
--
Ray
Skipper
<0dc376cb-ec0c-487f...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>,
Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Thank you.
Now you know how everyone reading your anti-Anonymous stuff feels.
freedom...@hotmail.com
Oh wow have you ever misunderstood. Perhaps I wasn't clear but I never
meant to say that medication abuses were "part of a plot to enslave
people" and I certainly NEVER SAID that ONLY totalitarian
dictatorships abuse psychiatric meds -- that would be totally stupid.
I was simply pointed out cases where meds were abused in that way and
misprescribed, not that they were the only examples of abuse of
psychiatric medication.
Here's what I'm talking about, BTW. Hardly a crackpot conspiracy
theory. Im very surprised you've never heard about this. I though it
was common knowledge what was done to dissidents in the former Soviet
Union:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psikhushka
There are cults that have been alleged to have abused psychiatric meds
in that way but it is not "only" in totalitarian dictatorships and
cults. I just said I felt lucky to be living in a free country, but
that doesn't mean that I think totaliarian dictatorships are the only
places where psych drugs were abused. I didn't think I needed to get
overly wordy and say: I feel lucky to be living in a free country AND
not be in a cult that abuses psych drugs AND not be under the care of
a quack AND all the other ways psych drugs can be abused. I didn't
have to do this because the context of this discussion was a specific
way in which psych drugs can be used to abuse and silence dissidents.
Are you saying that psych drugs are never abused and that anyone who
thinks they are is a conspiracy theorist? I hope not because that is
not the case.
In fact, on the contrary, right here in the United States the
psychiatrist Bennett Braun (any relation to Eldon?) was severely
disciplined by his board and had his license suspended for several
years for (actually, IMO, he should have had it permanently revoked),
among other things abusing psychiatric meds at Rush Presbyterian
hospital. Again, these are established court cases, not conspiracy
theories.
http://www.astraeasweb.net/politics/braun.html
Sorry, Eldon, if I'm insulting some relative of yours but this guy
deserves it.
Thankfully, neither Bennett nor Eldon Braun have any kind of power
over me.
Monica - posting from a different account not as a sock but because am
having trouble with my other one.
>
> <snip>
>
> --
> Ray
Monica
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:17:57 -0700.
> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> And the Organization Header: .
> Wrote on the subject: Re:Groupthink:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article
> >Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >> Interesting article in Wikipedia onGroupthink. It really seems to fit
> >> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>
> >Here's one I think is more applicable:
>
> >Asshole (or arsehole in British English) is slang for the anus and can
> >be used to describe an unpleasant person.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole
>
> >Pignotti - that's Italian for asshole, no?
>
> Pignotti Name Meaning and History
> Italian: apparently a diminutive of an unrecorded family name Pigno, now
> found only as a place name. .
The people at that website are clueless, then. I know what my own last
name means.
> Thinks she knows more than experienced psychs. Hell, she's just an MSW
> same as she was back in 1997 btw, she just does not develop at all.
WTF? What's wrong with having a masters degree and staying at that
level. This is ridiculous. What degrees do you have? Any at all? When
was the last time you were in school? Just because someone graduated
11 years ago and didn't get any higher degrees doesn't mean they
didn't "develop at all". You are ABSURD, although in this case you're
wrong even there because I am presently working on a PhD but I would
never make such a ridiculous statement that people who stayed at the
masters level "didn't develop at all".
Monica
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Note that I said only totalitarian dictatorships use psychiatric meds
TO SILENCE DISSIDENTS. Not "only totalitarian dictatorships abuse
psychiatric meds. You left out the last three words, which were
important to my point.
FTSOH
In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
With the Message-ID:
And the Organization Header: http://groups.google.com.
The famous author: Monica <freedom...@hotmail.com>.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Groupthink:
>On Jun 20, 3:39 am, FTSOH <FT...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:17:57 -0700.
>> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
>> With the Message-ID: <200620080017577752%skipSPAMpr...@yahoo.not>
>> And the Organization Header: .
>> The famous author: Skipper <skipSPAMpr...@yahoo.not>.
>> Wrote on the subject: Re:Groupthink:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >In article
>> ><1be15165-07eb-4862-b7da-7dbfa5825...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> >Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> Interesting article in Wikipedia onGroupthink. It really seems to fit
>> >> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>>
>> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>>
>> >Here's one I think is more applicable:
>>
>> >Asshole (or arsehole in British English) is slang for the anus and can
>> >be used to describe an unpleasant person.
>>
>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole
>>
>> >Pignotti - that's Italian for asshole, no?
>>
>> Pignotti Name Meaning and History
>> Italian: apparently a diminutive of an unrecorded family name Pigno, now
>> found only as a place name. .
>
>The people at that website are clueless, then. I know what my own last
>name means.
The people at that site are Italians and speak Italians you crazy "I must
be right even when I'm wrong moron" You do NOT speak Italian, and it's
obvious that you do NOT know what your own name means. It does not in any
way mean anything at all like "pine tree" Geeze, what a FAIL you are.
FAIL PIGNOTTI. TOTAL FAIL as usual.
>
>> Thinks she knows more than experienced psychs. Hell, she's just an MSW
>> same as she was back in 1997 btw, she just does not develop at all.
>
>WTF? What's wrong with having a masters degree and staying at that
>level. This is ridiculous. What degrees do you have? Any at all? When
>was the last time you were in school? Just because someone graduated
>11 years ago and didn't get any higher degrees doesn't mean they
>didn't "develop at all". You are ABSURD, although in this case you're
>wrong even there because I am presently working on a PhD but I would
>never make such a ridiculous statement that people who stayed at the
>masters level "didn't develop at all".
>
You do NOT develop, that is clear for anyone to see. Others though goes
to school to develop usually every 2-3 years, usually paid by their
employer. You however ONLY have one poor run off the mill MSW, something
any moron can get in a few months of lazy studying.
Bwahahaha.....
FAIL PIGNOTTI. TOTAL FAIL as usual.
Stephen Durkin
> Monica Pignotti wrote:
> > Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink. It really seems to fit
> > what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>
> You think it's a good idea.
> Therefore, we're guilty of "groupthink."
>
> keep trying to grab the mic and force everyone to Do It Your Way?
"Grab the mic," I like that.
"Force"...hmm, strong word...hard to force anything via internet
message boards.
> I gotta tell you, aside from a couple of pieces you wrote a million
> years ago that were pretty decent, your current stuff smacks of the
> Barbera Attention Whore Syndrome.
>
> Agree to disagree, stfu, and move on. Surely you have better things to
> do than try to dominate a friggin newsgroup. I mean, you being the
> Important Academic and all. You should hook up with Pamela
> Lichtenwalner. I swear, you are two legumes sharing a pod!
Monica points out that CoS critics engage in some of the same
behaviors they criticize...
"Agree to disagree, stfu, and move on"...a related example...fueling
the interaction while suggesting that Monica disengage from the
interaction...
Monica
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:02:11 -0700 (PDT).
> With the Message-ID:
> Wrote on the subject: Re: Groupthink:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jun 20, 3:39 am, FTSOH <FT...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:17:57 -0700.
> >> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> >> With the Message-ID: <200620080017577752%skipSPAMpr...@yahoo.not>
> >> And the Organization Header: .
> >> The famous author: Skipper <skipSPAMpr...@yahoo.not>.
> >> Wrote on the subject: Re:Groupthink:
>
> >> >In article
> >> ><1be15165-07eb-4862-b7da-7dbfa5825...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> >> >Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> Interesting article in Wikipedia onGroupthink. It really seems to fit
> >> >> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>
> >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>
> >> >Here's one I think is more applicable:
>
> >> >Asshole (or arsehole in British English) is slang for the anus and can
> >> >be used to describe an unpleasant person.
>
> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole
>
> >> >Pignotti - that's Italian for asshole, no?
>
> >> Pignotti Name Meaning and History
> >> Italian: apparently a diminutive of an unrecorded family name Pigno, now
> >> found only as a place name. .
>
> >The people at that website are clueless, then. I know what my own last
> >name means.
>
> be right even when I'm wrong moron" You do NOT speak Italian, and it's
> obvious that you do NOT know what your own name means. It does not in any
> way mean anything at all like "pine tree" Geeze, what a FAIL you are.
My own family are Italians, speak Italian and that's what they say it
means. You are FAIL for trying to argue with me about the meaning of
my own name. This is getting to be ridiculous and that's all I'm going
to say on this topic. I'm not about to get into an argument with you
about the meaning of my name. It has nothing to do with anything we're
discussing anyway. JUST TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE. You're
trying to attack me from any angle you can. This is just getting
ridiculous. One thing's for sure, you're giving me much material and
documentation on what the ANTI CULT CULT does to attack its critics
and the ridiculous extremes some people go to.
> >> Thinks she knows more than experienced psychs. Hell, she's just an MSW
> >> same as she was back in 1997 btw, she just does not develop at all.
>
> >WTF? What's wrong with having a masters degree and staying at that
> >level. This is ridiculous. What degrees do you have? Any at all? When
> >was the last time you were in school? Just because someone graduated
> >11 years ago and didn't get any higher degrees doesn't mean they
> >didn't "develop at all". You are ABSURD, although in this case you're
> >wrong even there because I am presently working on a PhD but I would
> >never make such a ridiculous statement that people who stayed at the
> >masters level "didn't develop at all".
>
> You do NOT develop, that is clear for anyone to see.
Again, this is just a mind game your're trying to play with me and you
are FAIL because the feedback that I am constantly getting from PEOPLE
WHO ACTUALLY KNOW ME is just the opposite -- This is one of my
strengths that I am always seeking to further my education and learn
new things.
>Others though goes
> to school to develop usually every 2-3 years, usually paid by their
> employer.
This is utter hogwash. Very few adults go to school every 2-3 years to
develop, paid by their employers, at least not in the United States
they don't. You obviously have no clue about how things are here. That
said, I am CURRENTLY in school getting my PhD but you are misinformed
if you think this is is the norm here.
>You however ONLY have one poor run off the mill MSW, something
> any moron can get in a few months of lazy studying.
No, it was a two year masters level program. What degrees, if any, do
you have? You are a joke. ROFL.
>
> Bwahahaha.....
Right back at you.
>
> FAIL PIGNOTTI. TOTAL FAIL as usual.-
TOTAL FAIL. YOU HAVE NO LIFE and so have to attack me. You are the
most ridiculous example of the anti cult cult at its most absurd and
EXTREME. You are unbelieveable, but if you think you are playing with
my mind, think again. All your're doing is exposing your own ignorance
to the world.
Monica
United States people do not go back to school "to develop usually
every 2-3 years, usually paid by their employer." He's living in some
kind of fantasy world. LOL.
R. Hill
<snip>
>> The problem with your statement is that I see this as supportive of the
>> scientologist cultic views by going along their conspiracy theories that
>> medication abuses is part of a plot to enslave people. You stated that
>> "*only* totalitarian dictatorships *abuses* psychiatric meds."
>
> Oh wow have you ever misunderstood. Perhaps I wasn't clear but I never
> meant to say that medication abuses were "part of a plot to enslave
> people" and I certainly NEVER SAID that ONLY totalitarian
> dictatorships abuse psychiatric meds -- that would be totally stupid.
Alright, never mind then, I misinterpreted your statement (really).
> Im very surprised you've never heard about this. I though it
> was common knowledge what was done to dissidents in the former Soviet
> Union:
Please don't, I don't think I ever stated I was an authority on
anything. If I post some nonsense, I sure want to be corrected, rather
than be left with the impression that what I said is right and keep on
my silliness.
<snip>
But I have to say, the extra scrutiny by the people at Enturbulation is
welcomed. From the arguments you brought (masks, lingo, "groupthink"
symptoms,) I just can't convince myself that they are an unproductive
bunch of "groupthinking" people.
--
Ray
Skipper
<b9405f32-b6fd-4205...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Monica <freedom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Study this, Monica, it might solve some of your development problems -
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20060421/ai_n16151638
barb
Just because you don't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In fact, it does.
In white collar industries, people are sent back to school all the time
to keep up with new trends and technology.
Does not apply to garbage collectors and fast food servers. Or you,
evidently.
FTSOH
In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
With the Message-ID:
And the Organization Header: http://groups.google.com.
The famous author: Monica <freedom...@hotmail.com>.
>Could someone please clue Sten Arne in, and let him know that in the
>United States people do not go back to school "to develop usually
>every 2-3 years, usually paid by their employer." He's living in some
>kind of fantasy world. LOL.
>
Oh, I forgot that you live in a third world country. In a modern society
what I said is true though....
FTSOH
In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
With the Message-ID:
But it doesn't Pino is pine, Pigno is not pine, notti is night. Sorry
you're dead wrong :-)
>You are FAIL for trying to argue with me about the meaning of
>my own name.
You develop. You said FAIL :-)
>This is getting to be ridiculous and that's all I'm going
>to say on this topic. I'm not about to get into an argument with you
>about the meaning of my name.
No use, since you already lost that argument. Pino is pine.
>It has nothing to do with anything we're
>discussing anyway. JUST TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE. You're
>trying to attack me from any angle you can. This is just getting
>ridiculous. One thing's for sure, you're giving me much material and
>documentation on what the ANTI CULT CULT does to attack its critics
>and the ridiculous extremes some people go to.
Good then, you haven't written anything of value for many years, so maybe
we can all have a good laugh when you try to publish again :-)
>
>Again, this is just a mind game your're trying to play with me and you
>are FAIL because the feedback that I am constantly getting from PEOPLE
>WHO ACTUALLY KNOW ME is just the opposite -- This is one of my
>strengths that I am always seeking to further my education and learn
>new things.
Seems as if you're still stuck though on MSW or wtf it now was you got
many many years ago. Then you get into cults very often, so yeah you're
FAIL eh?
>
>>Others though goes
>> to school to develop usually every 2-3 years, usually paid by their
>> employer.
>
>This is utter hogwash. Very few adults go to school every 2-3 years to
>develop, paid by their employers, at least not in the United States
>they don't. You obviously have no clue about how things are here. That
>said, I am CURRENTLY in school getting my PhD but you are misinformed
>if you think this is is the norm here.
Third world country, I see.....
>
>No, it was a two year masters level program. What degrees, if any, do
>you have? You are a joke. ROFL.
Run of the mill school I take it. Two years dammit that isn't anything.
I've studied for 8 years after college, and my profession is unlike you
nothing I need to boast about, even though I'm way above you in knowledge
about most REAL and MEANINGFUL things in life and degree, both
professionally and personally.
Your only accomplishment seems to be the ability to join cults despite
having as you said studied to a MSW degree. Didn't you learn anything
that time either?
Haven't you noticed that nobody is impressed with your run of the mill
MSW degree. Hell 2 years is nothing, you're simply uneducated.
FAIL
>
>
>TOTAL FAIL. YOU HAVE NO LIFE and so have to attack me. You are the
>most ridiculous example of the anti cult cult at its most absurd and
>EXTREME. You are unbelieveable, but if you think you are playing with
>my mind, think again. All your're doing is exposing your own ignorance
>to the world.
I can feel and notice that you didn't learn anything of that which you
studied. Control is out, MONICA IS FAIL.
BTW: MSW two years only. Bwahahaha.....
FTSOH
In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
With the Message-ID: <QeU6k.693$%q....@newsfe24.lga>
And the Organization Header: Cox.
The famous author: barb <xenu...@netscape.net>.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Reality Check for Sten Arne:
>Monica wrote:
>> Could someone please clue Sten Arne in, and let him know that in the
>> United States people do not go back to school "to develop usually
>> every 2-3 years, usually paid by their employer." He's living in some
>> kind of fantasy world. LOL.
>>
>> He writes:
>>> You do NOT develop, that is clear for anyone to see. Others though goes
>>> to school to develop usually every 2-3 years, usually paid by their
>>> employer.
>
>Just because you don't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In fact, it does.
>In white collar industries, people are sent back to school all the time
>to keep up with new trends and technology.
>
>Does not apply to garbage collectors and fast food servers. Or you,
>evidently.
Maybe her MSW is just something she tries to boast about. Maybe she got
it from the same diploma mill Hubbard used.
Be what it may with that, but her tendencies to join new cults latest
being TFT and ACT, clearly shows some lack of education though.
She does use that simple short 2 years study to MSW alot here, but it
doesn't seem to impress anyone eh?
Tom Newton
Skipper <skipSP...@yahoo.not> wrote:
> In article
><1be15165-07eb-4862...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink. It really seems to fit
>> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>
> Here's one I think is more applicable:
>
> Asshole (or arsehole in British English) is slang for the anus and can
> be used to describe an unpleasant person.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole
>
> Pignotti - that's Italian for asshole, no?
She has made a very good observation.
And _you_ are clearly looking in a mirror.
This is the kind of person that 'Anonymous' attracts: Stupid punks
who attack anyone who refuses to believe the lame anti-Scientology
hate propaganda they parrot.
All the while claiming to be free speech activists.
This is good news for the Church of Scientology, though.
Losers like this fellow, who is probably responsible for all the posts
on this subthread (creeps like this always have many aliases that they
use to bully people with) couldn't find their own assholes with a GPS
unit. All they can do is run their punk mouths while they hide behind
the internet and fake names.
They certainly aren't going to do anything that could harm the Church
of Scientology.
Their posts have less credibility than spam.
Tom
--
The Truth will set you free:
http://www.sethcenter.com
Sam Buckland
> On 2008-06-20, in <200620080017577752%skipSP...@yahoo.not>
> Skipper <skipSP...@yahoo.not> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <1be15165-07eb-4862...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink. It really seems to fit
>>> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>> Here's one I think is more applicable:
>>
>> Asshole (or arsehole in British English) is slang for the anus and can
>> be used to describe an unpleasant person.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole
>>
>> Pignotti - that's Italian for asshole, no?
>
> She has made a very good observation.
>
> And _you_ are clearly looking in a mirror.
>
Then YOU must be standing behind him.
Skipper
FTSOH <FT...@invalid.invalid> wrote in response to Monica wannbe queen
of the newsgroup after Monica said:
> >> >> >> Interesting article in Wikipedia onGroupthink. It really seems to fit
> >> >> >> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
> >>
> >> >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
To which I propounded:
> >> >> >Here's one I think is more applicable:
> >>
> >> >> >Asshole (or arsehole in British English) is slang for the anus and can
> >> >> >be used to describe an unpleasant person.
> >>
> >> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole
> >>
> >> >> >Pignotti - that's Italian for asshole, no?
And then FTSOH(?) chimed:
> >> >> Pignotti Name Meaning and History
> >> >> Italian: apparently a diminutive of an unrecorded family name Pigno, now
> >> >> found only as a place name. .
To which Monica huffed and puffed and retorted:
> >> >The people at that website are clueless, then. I know what my own last
> >> >name means.
And if you're not confused yet, someone said:
> >> The people at that site are Italians and speak Italians you crazy "I must
> >> be right even when I'm wrong moron" You do NOT speak Italian, and it's
> >> obvious that you do NOT know what your own name means. It does not in any
> >> way mean anything at all like "pine tree" Geeze, what a FAIL you are.
> >
> >My own family are Italians, speak Italian and that's what they say it
> >means.
But absolutely, count on it, FTSOH chortled out:
> But it doesn't Pino is pine, Pigno is not pine, notti is night. Sorry
> you're dead wrong :-)
{sigh}
So since Monica might means "adviser" does this mean her name means
"adviser on Pigno at night"?
I'd be more interested in that than this b.s. or Pigno s.
Monica
> Monica wrote:
> > Could someone please clue Sten Arne in, and let him know that in the
> > United States people do not go back to school "to develop usually
> > every 2-3 years, usually paid by their employer." He's living in some
> > kind of fantasy world. LOL.
>
> > He writes:
> >> You do NOT develop, that is clear for anyone to see. Others though goes
> >> to school to develop usually every 2-3 years, usually paid by their
> >> employer.
>
> Just because you don't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In fact, it does.
> In white collar industries, people are sent back to school all the time
> to keep up with new trends and technology.
>
> Does not apply to garbage collectors and fast food servers. Or you,
> evidently.
It does apply to me. I am currently in a PhD program, but that is very
unusual for someone in their 50s as I am. Most people in the US, even
in white collar jobs do not have their employers paying for them to go
back to school every 2-3 years. That is just ridiculous. There are, of
course, a few exceptions but it isn't the norm even for professional
jobs. I say this as someone who has worked in hospital research, not
as a garbage collector or food server.
Monica
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:16:51 -0700.
> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> With the Message-ID: <QeU6k.693$%q....@newsfe24.lga>
> And the Organization Header: Cox.
> Wrote on the subject: Re: Reality Check for Sten Arne:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Monica wrote:
> >> Could someone please clue Sten Arne in, and let him know that in the
> >> United States people do not go back to school "to develop usually
> >> every 2-3 years, usually paid by their employer." He's living in some
> >> kind of fantasy world. LOL.
>
> >> He writes:
> >>> You do NOT develop, that is clear for anyone to see. Others though goes
> >>> to school to develop usually every 2-3 years, usually paid by their
> >>> employer.
>
> >Just because you don't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In fact, it does.
> >In white collar industries, people are sent back to school all the time
> >to keep up with new trends and technology.
>
> >Does not apply to garbage collectors and fast food servers. Or you,
> >evidently.
>
> Maybe her MSW is just something she tries to boast about. Maybe she got
> it from the same diploma mill Hubbard used.
It is from Fordham University, a fully-accredited legitimate school.
> Be what it may with that, but her tendencies to join new cults latest
> being TFT and ACT, clearly shows some lack of education though.
ACT is not a cult and I've never practiced ACT anyway. ACT is a
legitimately researched therapy being taught in legitimate accredited
universities.
> She does use that simple short 2 years study to MSW alot here, but it
> doesn't seem to impress anyone eh?-
You're clueless. I'm currently in a PhD program. My point was only
that in the US adults are not normally expected to go back to school
every 2-3 years.
Monica
> > Could someone please clue Sten Arne in, and let him know that in the
> > United States people do not go back to school "to develop usually
> > every 2-3 years, usually paid by their employer." He's living in some
> > kind of fantasy world. LOL.
>
> > He writes:
> >> You do NOT develop, that is clear for anyone to see. Others though goes
> >> to school to develop usually every 2-3 years, usually paid by their
> >> employer.
>
> Just because you don't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In fact, it does.
> In white collar industries, people are sent back to school all the time
> to keep up with new trends and technology.
>
> Does not apply to garbage collectors and fast food servers. Or you,
> evidently.
BTW, Barb, what degrees do you hold and when was the last time you
were in school. Or are you too busy claiming to fight Scientology?
Actually, that's not a bad thing for you to be posting here if it
keeps you from getting behind the wheel of a car so much.
Monica
> In article <ok4o5417v2hfmk5l187e9dcqtas4jlr...@news2.lightlink.com>,
This is getting completely absurd. What does the origin of my name
have to do with anything, except a furthering of your personal smear
campaign first against me and now against my family. Since all this is
on the interenet, it will be interesting for me to document how
fanatical and ridiculous the anti cult cult has become.
This sounds to me like a lame attempt as gaslighting, but really it
just has me ROFL at the absurdity of it all
Tom Newton
Skipper <skipSP...@yahoo.not> wrote:
This person, who posts under dozens of aliases, is simply attacking
Monica as he and the rest of 'Anonymous' attack all critics, while
claiming to be free speech activists.
Nothing he says about her is trustworthy and I've never seen him
post _anything_ worth reading.
<snip>
So let's take another look at Monica's original post, which is highly
relevant to the 'Anonymous' hate group:
On 2008-06-19, in
<1be15165-07eb-4862...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.co
m> Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink. It really seems to fit
> what's been going on here and in certain other groups lately.
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
>
> Here's an excerpt:
>
> "Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to
> minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing,
> analyzing, and evaluating ideas. During groupthink, members of the
> group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus
> thinking.
> [...]
> Symptoms of groupthink
>
> In order to make groupthink testable, Irving Janis devised eight
> symptoms that are indicative of groupthink (1977).
>
> 1. Illusions of invulnerability creating excessive optimism and
> encouraging risk taking.
> 2. Rationalising warnings that might challenge the group's
> assumptions.
> 3. Unquestioned belief in the morality of the group, causing
> members to ignore the consequences of their actions.
> 4. Stereotyping those who are opposed to the group as weak, evil,
> disfigured, impotent, or stupid.
> 5. Direct pressure to conform placed on any member who questions
> the group, couched in terms of "disloyalty".
> 6. Self censorship of ideas that deviate from the apparent group
> consensus.
> 7. Illusions of unanimity among group members, silence is viewed as
> agreement.
> 8. Mindguards ? self-appointed members who shield the group from
> dissenting information.
> [...]
>
><snip>
> Groupthink is not confined to cults, but can potentially occur to
> varying degrees within any society or group of people. A cult could be
> said to exhibit a significantly higher degree of Groupthink than the
> average within society. Or in other words, a cult is an organisation
> primarily devoted to fostering its own particular form of Groupthink."
>
>
Tom
Monica
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:38:28 -0700 (PDT).
> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> With the Message-ID:
Most all masters degree programs are two year programs, after 4 years
of college, so that makes 16 total years education, well above that of
the average person. But this is so off the point. I'm getting
personally attacked for having a masters degree -- you're really
having to reach here. This is absurd.
Monica
> On 2008-06-20, in <200620081546339493%skipSPAMpr...@yahoo.not>
>
> Skipper <skipSPAMpr...@yahoo.not> wrote:
>
> This person, who posts under dozens of aliases, is simply attacking
> Monica as he and the rest of 'Anonymous' attack all critics, while
> claiming to be free speech activists.
>
> Nothing he says about her is trustworthy and I've never seen him
> post _anything_ worth reading.
>
> <snip>
>
> So let's take another look at Monica's original post, which is highly
> relevant to the 'Anonymous' hate group:
>
> On 2008-06-19, in
Thank you, Tom, for bringing this discussion back on topic. My
introduction of the groupthink concept seems to have really hit a
nerve with some people here that they have found it necessary to
attack my education and even my last name. This discussion has reached
the height of absurdity. Oh well, it will make an interesting
conversation topic with some of my colleagues. Sociologists should
find this an especially interesting counter-movement to study. Anson
Shupe would be having a field day with this.
Nec_V20
Monica,
Skipper is one of those posters, about whom there is really only one
thing to say:
"You deprive me of solitude whilst affording no companionship
whatsoever".
Monica
Indeed! I seem to have really hit a nerve here when I introduced
Groupthink as a topic. The attacks on me are becoming completely
absurd. It seems they'll try to do anything to avoid the topic,
including trying to argue with me about what my family name means and
where I went to school. It certainly is a good demonstration of the
principles in the post that began this thread.
Tom Newton
<a27a622d-2ca0-4d65...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.co
m> Monica <freedom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 20, 6:57 pm, Tom Newton <t...@server.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2008-06-20, in <200620081546339493%skipSPAMpr...@yahoo.not>
>>
>> Skipper <skipSPAMpr...@yahoo.not> wrote:
>>
>> This person, who posts under dozens of aliases, is simply
>> attacking Monica as he and the rest of 'Anonymous' attack all
>> critics, while claiming to be free speech activists.
>>
>> Nothing he says about her is trustworthy and I've never seen
>> him post _anything_ worth reading.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> So let's take another look at Monica's original post, which is
>> highly relevant to the 'Anonymous' hate group:
>>
>> On 2008-06-19, in
>> <1be15165-07eb-4862-b7da-7dbfa5825...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups
You are expecting trolls to be reasonable. That's not reasonable. :-)
> Oh well, it will make an interesting conversation topic with
> some of my colleagues. Sociologists should find this an
> especially interesting counter-movement to study. Anson Shupe
> would be having a field day with this.
As near as I can tell, 'Anonymous' is much more cult-like than
the Church of Scientology, and this group-think is a part of it.
Please don't talk to me as if I am an academic colleague of
yours. I have no idea who Anson Shupe is and couldn't care less.
I don't deal with personalities but with ideas and observable
phenomena.
The fact that someone said something wise once doesn't mean what
they are saying now isn't stupid. I have met plent of people with
Doctorates who have downright mediocre intellects, despite
their impressive specialized vocabularies.
And if you want to see an extreme manifestation of groupthink,
Academia is just the place to go.
Jonnie Tyler
news:519ed220-6127-4e37...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 20, 2:26 pm, FTSOH <FT...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:02:11 -0700 (PDT).
>> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
>> With the Message-ID:
>> <b9405f32-b6fd-4205-a555-1c3c82237...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
>> And the Organization Header:http://groups.google.com.
>> The famous author: Monica <freedom_dign...@hotmail.com>.
>> Wrote on the subject: Re: Groupthink:
>> >> Pignotti Name Meaning and History
>> >> Italian: apparently a diminutive of an unrecorded family name Pigno,
>> >> now
>> >> found only as a place name. .
>>
>> >The people at that website are clueless, then. I know what my own last
>> >name means.
>>
>> The people at that site are Italians and speak Italians you crazy "I must
>> be right even when I'm wrong moron" You do NOT speak Italian, and it's
>> obvious that you do NOT know what your own name means. It does not in any
>> way mean anything at all like "pine tree" Geeze, what a FAIL you are.
>
> My own family are Italians, speak Italian and that's what they say it
> means. You are FAIL for trying to argue with me about the meaning of
> my own name. This is getting to be ridiculous and that's all I'm going
> to say on this topic. I'm not about to get into an argument with you
> about the meaning of my name. It has nothing to do with anything we're
> discussing anyway. JUST TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE. You're
> trying to attack me from any angle you can. This is just getting
> ridiculous. One thing's for sure, you're giving me much material and
> documentation on what the ANTI CULT CULT does to attack its critics
> and the ridiculous extremes some people go to.
Beware of what people tell you in a language you don't understand.
I had a friend who was to travel to France and did not know French. People
told her that if someone tries to speak French to her she ought to say
"Sorry, I don't speak French", and they translated this as "Vous parlez
Francais comme une vache espagnole" - which sentence she learned by heart..
In fact, that sentence means "you speak French like a Spanish cow". So every
time she wanted to politely tell them that she did not speak French, she was
actually insulting them.
Kind of funny, if French people have a sense of humor, something I am not
sure about.
Jonnie Tyler
Thank you, Tom, for bringing this discussion back on topic. My
introduction of the groupthink concept seems to have really hit a
nerve with some people here that they have found it necessary to
attack my education and even my last name. This discussion has reached
the height of absurdity. Oh well, it will make an interesting
conversation topic with some of my colleagues. Sociologists should
find this an especially interesting counter-movement to study. Anson
Shupe would be having a field day with this.
=========
Is Anson Shupe your friend now? I thought you rather leagued with people
like Singer and Kent.
Skipper
<f5b8ef50-7a4e-4f33...@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Monica <freedom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Indeed! I seem to have really hit a nerve here when I introduced
> Groupthink as a topic. The attacks on me are becoming completely
> absurd. It seems they'll try to do anything to avoid the topic,
> including trying to argue with me about what my family name means and
> where I went to school. It certainly is a good demonstration of the
> principles in the post that began this thread.
No, Pigsnotty, you did two things:
1. Repeatedly showed you're an obstinate asshole.
2. Ran off any number of possible friends who might have thought in the
past you had any worthwhile contributions.
Now keep doing the same psychotic thing over and over and hoping for a
different result.
Monica
wrote:
> "Monica" <freedom_dign...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
No, he is not my friend or my enemy. I don't even know him but I read
one of his books and in observing what I observe here, I can recognize
and identify some of what he is criticizing. Although I far from agree
with everything he wrote, I do see a grain of truth when I observe
some of the insane behavior of people claiming that they are fighting
cults, behaving in a very cult-like way.
Monica
> In article
>
> Monica <freedom_dign...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Indeed! I seem to have really hit a nerve here when I introduced
> > Groupthink as a topic. The attacks on me are becoming completely
> > absurd. It seems they'll try to do anything to avoid the topic,
> > including trying to argue with me about what my family name means and
> > where I went to school. It certainly is a good demonstration of the
> > principles in the post that began this thread.
>
> No, Pigsnotty, you did two things:
>
> 1. Repeatedly showed you're an obstinate asshole.
>
> 2. Ran off any number of possible friends who might have thought in the
> past you had any worthwhile contributions.
>
> Now keep doing the same psychotic thing over and over and hoping for a
> different result.
Who is this "Pigsnotty" you keep talking about? I've never heard of
such a person. What we're discussing here is groupthink. You might
want to review point #4.
realpch
>
> Maureen Drueck wrote:
> > On Jun 19, 7:38 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >> Interesting article in Wikipedia on Groupthink.
> >
> > According to the backstory, Sparrow was branded a pirate by Beckett
> > for refusing to transport slaves for the East India Trading Company.
> > [41]
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badge_of_shame
> >
> > The picket on Saturday was awesome.
>
> The Anonymous pickets have *all* been awesome.
>
> John
They've looked pretty darn reasonable to me. I make allowances for other
people doing things differently from how I do them.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Skipper
<6bab9a98-3b3f-48ca...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Monica <freedom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Take a pill.
Eat a donut.
Masturbate.
Get lost.
Nobody cares.
Tom Newton
Skipper <skipSP...@yahoo.not> wrote:
> In article
><6bab9a98-3b3f-48ca...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.co
Yes, some of us care. She is much more interesting than you are.
I have a question for you.
How do you plan to make her do anything?
Answer: You aren't. You can fart on the Usenet all day and all night
and she isn't going anywhere.
That's the way it is. Free speech exists on the Usenet.
If you don't like it you can have sex with yourself.
I'll bet she isn't even reading your posts anymore. That's what
I mostly do.
Ball of Fluff
"Tom Newton" <t...@server.invalid> wrote in message
news:68hui5x...@treeoflife.3v8l2x.net...
Glad to see you are supporting freedom of speech. I assume, then, that you
can recognize that the Anon critics also have those same rights and
privileges and maybe stop naming threads after people you don't like in an
effort to intimidate them?
C
realpch
>
> freedom...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> The problem with your statement is that I see this as supportive of the
> >> scientologist cultic views by going along their conspiracy theories that
> >> medication abuses is part of a plot to enslave people. You stated that
> >> "*only* totalitarian dictatorships *abuses* psychiatric meds."
> >
> > Oh wow have you ever misunderstood. Perhaps I wasn't clear but I never
> > meant to say that medication abuses were "part of a plot to enslave
> > people" and I certainly NEVER SAID that ONLY totalitarian
> > dictatorships abuse psychiatric meds -- that would be totally stupid.
>
> Alright, never mind then, I misinterpreted your statement (really).
>
> > Im very surprised you've never heard about this. I though it
> > was common knowledge what was done to dissidents in the former Soviet
> > Union:
>
> Please don't, I don't think I ever stated I was an authority on
> anything. If I post some nonsense, I sure want to be corrected, rather
> than be left with the impression that what I said is right and keep on
> my silliness.
>
> <snip>
>
> But I have to say, the extra scrutiny by the people at Enturbulation is
> welcomed. From the arguments you brought (masks, lingo, "groupthink"
> symptoms,) I just can't convince myself that they are an unproductive
> bunch of "groupthinking" people.
>
> --
> Ray
Well, they do think in a group. Suddenly this is a terrible thing to do,
with lists of horrible symptoms! Thinking in groups can also be self
correcting and quite interesting. Think of it as a demented chorus line,
a congo chain into the night! Bright lights, sudden explosions! Confetti!
: D
realpch
>
> On Jun 20, 4:16 pm, barb <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > Monica wrote:
> > > Could someone please clue Sten Arne in, and let him know that in the
> > > United States people do not go back to school "to develop usually
> > > every 2-3 years, usually paid by their employer." He's living in some
> > > kind of fantasy world. LOL.
> >
> > > He writes:
> > >> You do NOT develop, that is clear for anyone to see. Others though goes
> > >> to school to develop usually every 2-3 years, usually paid by their
> > >> employer.
> >
> > Just because you don't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In fact, it does.
> > In white collar industries, people are sent back to school all the time
> > to keep up with new trends and technology.
> >
> > Does not apply to garbage collectors and fast food servers. Or you,
> > evidently.
>
> BTW, Barb, what degrees do you hold and when was the last time you
> were in school. Or are you too busy claiming to fight Scientology?
> Actually, that's not a bad thing for you to be posting here if it
> keeps you from getting behind the wheel of a car so much.
>
> > --
> > Barb "That's Captain Barbossa to you!"
> > Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
> > It's Poodlin' Time!
Ouch!
Ball of Fluff
"realpch" <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:485CB742...@aol.com...
>
> Well, they do think in a group. Suddenly this is a terrible thing to do,
> with lists of horrible symptoms! Thinking in groups can also be self
> correcting and quite interesting. Think of it as a demented chorus line,
> a congo chain into the night! Bright lights, sudden explosions! Confetti!
>
Peach,
You rock!
C
realpch
Awwwww, Claire!
Nec_V20
Monica,
I have a feeling that Skipper spends his time alternating between
posting to you and - judging from the cogency of his posts - gaining
"wisdom" from the regurgitations of Faux News.
With a mouse in one hand and a loofah in the other he obviously
considers himself as invincible as his hero. (http://
www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1013043mackris1.html)
His sig-line should be, "I'm writing this post quickly 'cause my
keyboard's running out of ink".
Nec_V20
Peach,
There's a saying in Germany:
"Frau am Steuer - Ungeheuer"
Here's three examples
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2129541/Frau_am_Steuer_Ungeheuer
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/273345/frau_am_steuer_ungeheuer
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/55531/Frauen_am_Steuer
C. Reiter
> "henri" <he...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:kdfm549ir5h0is95h...@4ax.com
>> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:28:59 -0700 (PDT), Nec_V20
>> <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> a friend of mine, Terril Park was actually banned from
>>> Enturbulation.org it happened on this thread:
>>> http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/questions-re-freezone-1990/
>> Wow. What a fucking joke. They claim he isn't
>> responding in enough detail to questions, then when he
>> does they ban him for "advertising" which is a flat out
>> lie. They could have at least been honest.
>>
>> That was a completely absurd ban. Terril Park is a
>> credit to any forum.
>
> Yeah, he's a huge credit. There'd be nothing at all wrong with anyone buying
> into his advertising.
>
>
What advertising? Have you got any evidence that he's making any money
or gaining favours by his postings?
I have to correct Nec_V20 in one point. It was Terril's idea to meet up
with the two of us, knowing full well that neither Nec nor I look kindly
at Scientology in any form. So, kudos to him.
You don't have to answer this, of course, but are you of a religious
persuasion?
Tom Newton
<1be15165-07eb-4862...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.co
That _is_ a very interesting article. And very relevant to
'Anonymous'.
Clearly they know this and don't want anyone else to see the
article and think in those terms.
Isn't that just too bad?
Eldon
> On Jun 20, 12:17 pm, Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 20, 11:19 am, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 20, 9:45 am, Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 20, 6:28 am, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jun 20, 2:36 am, "Jonnie Tyler" <BarryPep...@invalid.invalid>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Tom Newton" <t...@server.invalid> wrote in message
>
>
> > > > > > > On 2008-06-20, in
> > > > > > > <c1b4509a-e103-4bf7-8e1d-b434a4065...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.co
> > > > > > > m> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >> On Jun 19, 7:54 pm, barb <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >>> Jeez, do you EVAR shut up? Do you have a life? Is there some
> > > > > > >>> reason you keep trying to grab the mic and force everyone to
> > > > > > >>> Do It Your Way?
>
> > > > > > >> One more question, Barb. Where is the "force" in simply posting
> > > > > > >> to a usenet group? There isn't any. People are free to read my
> > > > > > >> postings or not, as they see fit. OTOH, when you complain to
> > > > > > >> a university about a website as you did with Val's and try to
> > > > > > >> shut it down, that I would call an attempt at force, although
> > > > > > >> you were unsuccessful. It looks to me like you are accusing me
> > > > > > >> of what you are doing.
>
> > > > > > > The only 'force' I see being employed on this newsgroup is the
> > > > > > > harassment of critics and pro-Scientology posters by 'Anonymous'.
> > > > > > > And anyone who is promoting something that the Church of
> > > > > > > Scientology promotes, like exposing the flaws in the mainstream
> > > > > > > psychotherapy/psychopharmaceutical industry.
>
> > > > > > > The very post you are responding to is an example of them harassing
> > > > > > > a critic.
>
> > > > > > > Yet they claim to be defenders of free speech...
>
> > > > > > It may be a form of harassment but it is also part of free speech. You just
> > > > > > have to live with this form of harassment if you want to avail your right of
> > > > > > free speech. As long as nobody is being banned from posting, there is no
> > > > > > force involved.
>
> > > > > Jonnie,
>
> > > > > a friend of mine, Terril Park was actually banned from
>
> > > > > Terril is a Scientologist and has been one for well over 40 years.
>
> > > > You really should not lump his life history together like this. He is
> > > > now a "Freezone Scientologist." He was into official Scientology for X
> > > > years, left the Scientology organization, and has since practiced
> > > > Scientology tech in the Freezone for X years.
>
> > > > He
>
> > > > > is also a very good friend of mine, and we have had many good and open
> > > > > discussions about Scientology (he, my girlfriend and I).
>
> > > > Yeah, I thought that was a real bad -- well, shitty -- call, and the
> > > > moderator has no right to say whether people can show up at a protest
> > > > with pro-Freezone picket signs. Terril's explanations were quite
> > > > candid and accurate, BTW.
>
> > > > > If you want to make up your own mind about him, here is a video that
> > > > > was made when he was protesting the Co$ San Francisco:http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1886004394909684676&q=terr...
>
> > > > > How many Scientologists do you know who are willing to answer
> > > > > questions as openly as Terril has on the thread and also in the video?
>
> > > > > So much for free speech I suppose.
>
> > > Eldon,
>
> > > He started off with Scientology in the early 1960's when there was no
> > > such thing as the FreeZone, which started - if I remember correctly
> > > what he told me - somewhere around 1980.
>
> > Yes, it began during the Snow White debacle, and increased when
> > Miscavige began attacking the independent mission holders in 1982.
>
> > My only point is your semantics. Some poeple who leave call themselves
> > "Freezone Scientologists," but there is a definite turning point when
> > they get out, and these are two different classifications, or
> > Scientology wouldn't be trying to destroy the apostates.
>
> > Too bad the Baptist Church didn't file a trademark infringement suit
> > against Rev. Phelps of Topeka, KS.www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iXbWsO4ik&feature=related
>
> Eldon,
>
> Terril has always been what is known as "Public" he was never on staff
> or anywhere near the Sea Org as far as I know. So going from being
> involved with Co$ to being involved with the FreeZone was not such a
> big break as it might be for others.
>
> He's also a pretty independent type - so he's not really classic
> "cult" material.
>
> What was really stupid on the part of Enturbulation.org is that they
> have lost an insider source of info who was actually friendly towards
> them.
>
> For instance the Channel 4 exposure of Scientology about a year or so
> back, Terril had been working with Channel 4 on it, and had told me
> about it months before it came out. He asked me to keep it secret and
> trusted me that I could keep my mouth shut about it. But in the right
> hands, if one had advance knowledge of such a thing one could plan an
> "event" to coincide with the airing something like that in future.
>
> Too bad they blew that.
Yeah, I agree. I thought he was quite cordial and informative.
Anyway, here is my reasoning for making the distinction between "in"
and "former" Scientologists, whether they were on staff or true
believers or dilettantes or whatever.
If you just say he's a Scientologist (which the cult claims as a
collective membership mark) some people are likely to assume that a
card-carrying Scieno would be allowed to post in a forum like that
with impunity, which is not the case.
If a real Scientologist, other than an OSA member assigned to troll or
spam, were found reading or posting on either the the Enturbulation
forum or here, he or she would be sent straight to the Ethics Officer.
Eldon
> On Jun 20, 4:16 pm, barb <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Monica wrote:
> > > Could someone please clue Sten Arne in, and let him know that in the
> > > United States people do not go back to school "to develop usually
> > > every 2-3 years, usually paid by their employer." He's living in some
> > > kind of fantasy world. LOL.
>
> > > He writes:
> > >> You do NOT develop, that is clear for anyone to see. Others though goes
> > >> to school to develop usually every 2-3 years, usually paid by their
> > >> employer.
>
> > Just because you don't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In fact, it does.
> > In white collar industries, people are sent back to school all the time
> > to keep up with new trends and technology.
>
> > Does not apply to garbage collectors and fast food servers. Or you,
> > evidently.
>
> BTW, Barb, what degrees do you hold and when was the last time you
> were in school. Or are you too busy claiming to fight Scientology?
> Actually, that's not a bad thing for you to be posting here if it
> keeps you from getting behind the wheel of a car so much.
Wow, that's about as ad hom as it gets. But you forgot to put in the
URL for Joel Phillips' RFW site, didn't you?
>
> > --
> > Barb "That's Captain Barbossa to you!"
> > Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
> > It's Poodlin' Time!
>
> > “I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist
> > so long as we don’t step over the line. When religious worship and
> > belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and
> > the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
> > appropriate.”
>
> > --Robert Goff
> > Professor Emeritus, UCSC
Nec_V20
Eldon,
I see where you're coming from, but Terril uses the term
"Scientologist" the way that one would talk about Catholics, Lutherans
or members of other Protestant denominations as "Christians".
If I am talking about Co$ members I usually call them "Scienoborgs".
I would also suggest that Terril would contend that since the advent
of "The Golden Age of Tech", Co$ has forfeited the right to call
themselves Scientologists and should actually call themselves
Miscavigisms or Miscavigists.