Nameless Impostor
Dave Bird
<ce...@u.washington.edu> writes
>This is just a technical observation.
>
>The woman who was a volunteer for CAN and is accused by Bob Minton,
>Stacy Brooks and Jesse Prince of spying on their activities is named
>Laura Terepin. Whether she was born with that name, married and divorced
>someone named Terepin, or simply adopted the name, it is a name she has
>used for years. She IS Laura Terepin. That IS her name.
[...................]
>In the U.S. it is completely legal to use whatever name you want, providing
>you are not using it for purposes of financial fraud.
Morally, if not in law, I don't recognise someone using a name
they have adopted simply for purposes of deception; especially
if they have deliberately adopted the name of a real person so
blame for their acts can fall on that person.
I want to know the Mock Turtle's real name.
Is there a picture of the Mock Turtle posted on a web-page?
Surely SOMEONE must recognise this impostor!
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster
<78tm5u$lt4$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>...
> In article <BGIykbBx...@xemu.demon.co.uk>,
> Dave Bird <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Morally, if not in law, I don't recognise someone using a name
> > they have adopted simply for purposes of deception
> She's had this name for years. Are you telling me you know she adopted
> this name (if she did) for purposes of deception? What deception? Be
> specific. What did she have to gain from using the name Laura Terepin
> rather than Mary Smith?
*If* she's indeed an OSA plant, presumably she adopted the name to
infiltrate the old CAN. Why that name? Perhaps because OSA had enough
details about the real Laura nee Terepin through her former friend's auditing
sessions to set up a convincing fake identity. I don't know, because Minton
runs with scissors and doesn't seem to play well with others.
> ; especially
> > if they have deliberately adopted the name of a real person so
> > blame for their acts can fall on that person.
> She's had this name for years. There is nothing to suggest she changed
> her name (if she did) for the purpose of casting blame (for what?) on
> someone else.
When she worked for the old CAN, did the $cienos learn about things
that only this "Laura Terepin" was told?
> > I want to know the Mock Turtle's real name.
<aol> Me too! </aol>
> If you're really, really good, and if you promise to eat all your cereal
> every morning for _three whole weeks_, maybe we'll tell you. :-)
I always eat all my cereal, and I've been told I'm "really, really good" on
any number of occasions. Does that mean you'll tell me? ;)
> > Is there a picture of the Mock Turtle posted on a web-page?
> > Surely SOMEONE must recognise this impostor!
<http://members.ricochet.net/~jfoster/MockTerrapin.jpeg> only 14KB
--
Joe Foster <mailto:jfo...@ricochet.net> or <mailto:j...@bftsi0.gate.net>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my BTs have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!
Bernie
>What did she have to gain from using the name Laura Terepin
>rather than Mary Smith?
I saw a speculation about that that seems to make sense. If people want to
check your identity, they may find out that a Laura Terepin exists indeed.
I guess that they probably won't go all the way to make a full
investigation about it to realize that this Laura isn't the same as the
other Laura. All they would probably do is check the records and see that
it isn't a fictive name (mind you, I don't doubt that there are quite a lot
of Mary Smith too, but somehow this name is too common to be very
convincing).
The fact that this was the *maiden* name of the OtherLaura also mitigates
in this direction, since the OtherLaura probably uses now her current name
for most of her dealings.
Pure speculation, of course, but seems logical enough.
Dave Bird
>In article <BGIykbBx...@xemu.demon.co.uk>,Dave Bird wrote:
>>In article <78t3lc$n44$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, Ceon Ramon
>>>
>>>Stacy Brooks and Jesse Prince of spying on their activities is named
>>>Laura Terepin. Whether she was born with that name,
come off it. You know that is improbable to the extent of absurdity
given the rarity of the name, the opportunity she had to maliciously
take that name from a real person, & the fake social security number
>>>married and divorced someone named Terepin,
Now we have another MALE Terepin completely unknown to the only
five closely related people in America called Terepin.
>>>or simply adopted the name,
Rubbish.
>it is a name she has
>>>used for years. She IS Laura Terepin. That IS her name.
>>[...................]
>>>In the U.S. it is completely legal to use whatever name you want, providing
>>>you are not using it for purposes of financial fraud.
>>
>> Morally, if not in law, I don't recognise someone using a name
>> they have adopted simply for purposes of deception
>
>She's had this name for years. Are you telling me you know she adopted
>this name (if she did) for purposes of deception?
Why else do you think she falsely took on the name and social
security number of another real person, apparently got for
her by officials of the Church of Scientology.
>What deception?
Ah, come on. If you had to take a wild guess, what do YOU
think I might be talking about.
> What did she have to gain from using the name Laura Terepin
>rather than Mary Smith?
If she was caught, say, stealing papers from a law office she
volunteered in, then she could simply disappear to another
part of the country and resume being Mary Smith or Myrtle Turtle
or whatever with her own Social Security Nr. The false identity
would help protect her from being pursued for any crimes
or wrongs she committed: they would not know she was Myrtle
Turtle, or where to look for her. Investigations would follow
a false trail and dead-end at a real person called Laura Terepin,
who was not her.
>
>; especially
>> if they have deliberately adopted the name of a real person so
>> blame for their acts can fall on that person.
>>
>> I want to know the Mock Turtle's real name.
In article <36cbe043....@enews.newsguy.com>, Bernie
<ma...@bernie.us-inc.com> writes
>>What did she have to gain from using the name Laura Terepin
>>rather than Mary Smith?
>
>I saw a speculation about that that seems to make sense. If people want to
>check your identity, they may find out that a Laura Terepin exists indeed.
>I guess that they probably won't go all the way to make a full
>investigation about it to realize that this Laura isn't the same as the
>other Laura. All they would probably do is check the records and see that
>it isn't a fictive name (mind you, I don't doubt that there are quite a lot
>of Mary Smith too, but somehow this name is too common to be very
>convincing).
>
>The fact that this was the *maiden* name of the OtherLaura also mitigates
>in this direction, since the OtherLaura probably uses now her current name
>for most of her dealings.
>
>Pure speculation, of course, but seems logical enough.
Thank you, Bernie.
e...@some.where
(Ceon Ramon) wrote:
> Edith Piaf. Hyacinth
> Bucket.
edith piaf! hyacynth bucket!
<swooon>
er
e...@some.where
(Ceon Ramon) wrote:
> In article <ef-3001199...@cr403509-a.crdva1.bc.wave.home.com>,
> EF: Have booked room at Sur la plage, Oregon for the weekend. Plan
> on shameless indulging of all senses 22 hours a day, with four left over
> for figuring out the tip. Bring usual assortment of sex toys and your
> lifetime coupon from Publishers Clearing House for Haagen Dazs ice cream.
> Remember the chocolate syrup and velcro and do not, repeat, DO NOT, reveal
> plans to European contingent of arscc. Allow them their fond belief that
> Americans (aka Greeks, Russians, Norwegians, Swedes, Bohemians, Rwandans,
> Germans, Belgians, Irish, Italians, South Africans, Spaniards, Argentines,
> Arabs, French, et al.) know absolutely nothing about sex and are forced to
> adopt loony religious notions of prudery at the instant they take their oath
> of allegiance. _This is _important_: repeat, do _not_ allow European
> contingent to know your secret recipe for "coffee."
>
> Wear your white bikini, and the safe word is "ouch."
>
> Ssshhh,
>
> Barbara
listen babs, i'm getting a little tired of having to bring
*everything*. whatsamatter? your arms are gonna fall off if you bring
one lousy pair of cuffs?
i do have to admit that the white tuberoses were a lovely idea the last
time. made me feel almost (but not quite, tee hee) virginal!
girlfriend, you may be well, cheap-ish, but you got taste.
the tip should be no prob if we let the concierge (and the euro-peons
call us philistines, well eat *this*, ya teutonic twits, i said
"concierge", cause, like, us canadians are *bi-cultural* dang it.) now
where was i... oh yeah, the tip should be no problem if we let the
concierge watch.
se ya soon
ef
John Ritson
<da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <78tm5u$lt4$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, Ceon Ramon writes:
>>In article <BGIykbBx...@xemu.demon.co.uk>,Dave Bird wrote:
>>>In article <78t3lc$n44$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, Ceon Ramon
>>>>
>>>>The woman who was a volunteer for CAN and is accused by Bob Minton,
>>>>Stacy Brooks and Jesse Prince of spying on their activities is named
>>>>Laura Terepin. Whether she was born with that name,
>
> come off it. You know that is improbable to the extent of absurdity
> given the rarity of the name, the opportunity she had to maliciously
> take that name from a real person, & the fake social security number
We will ignore the split infinitive, but "to maliciously take that
name"?
If somebody takes a name already in use by someone else, then unless
they do something like trying to use that identity to empty the first
person's bank account, or acting discreditably in order to discredit the
first person, then where is the malice? The only effect on the original
LT appears to have been a few calls from people seeking to confirm
whether she was the same as LT2.
'John Ritson' being a slightly uncommon name, I occasionally get calls
or e-mails from people trying to trace long-lost relatives or friends.
No big problem. If someone deliberately changes their name to 'John
Ritson' then I would regard that as imitation being the sincerest form
of flattery until and unless they tried to use that identity to damage
me or any of my namesakes, in which case it would be that action which
would be the problem, not the renaming.
I am more interested in seeing the evidence of explicit acts that LT2 is
alleged to have committed than bothering about her assumed name.
John *** ""I will smash my name into history so violently, it will take a
legendary form." - L. Ron Hubbard ***
Bernie
Ramon) wrote:
>Hyacinth Bucket
BOUQUET, Barbara, BOUQUET!
Don't you dare defame this respectable lady or she will
never invite you to her candle light supper
again! ;-)
Dave Bird
<jo...@jritson.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <cheFNCBq...@xemu.demon.co.uk>, Dave Bird
><da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <78tm5u$lt4$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, Ceon Ramon writes:
>>>In article <BGIykbBx...@xemu.demon.co.uk>,Dave Bird wrote:
>>>>In article <78t3lc$n44$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, Ceon Ramon
>>>>>
>>>>>The woman who was a volunteer for CAN and is accused by Bob Minton,
>>>>>Stacy Brooks and Jesse Prince of spying on their activities is named
>>>>>Laura Terepin. Whether she was born with that name,
>>
>> come off it. You know that is improbable to the extent of absurdity
>> given the rarity of the name, the opportunity she had to maliciously
>> take that name from a real person, & the fake social security number
>
>We will ignore the split infinitive, but "to maliciously take that
>name"?
Good. A spurious rule was invented in the 19th century that the
english infinitive is one word because the latin infinitive is
one word. But the latin 1st/2nd/3rd persons are one word as well:
if you can't say "to boldly go", you can't say "he definitely heard".
>If somebody takes a name already in use by someone else, then unless
>they do something like trying to use that identity to empty the first
>person's bank account, or acting discreditably in order to discredit the
>first person, then where is the malice?
I'm saying the name was n o t t a k e n i n g o o d f a i t h:
that she intended no good -- presumably breach of confidence with
clients' papers in a law office -- and she was using a false name and
social security number so that, if discovered, she could run away and
revert to her real name+SSN to avoid detection/liability for her acts.
To prepare to commit crimes or wrongs against others, by preparing in
advance ways of escaping detection or liability, is itself malicious
towards the people she intended to wrong. Just like buying a gun or
a getaway car as a deliberate preparation for wrongdoing.
It was also done either deliberately hoping or recklessly risking that
the person whose identity she stole would suffer a lot of blame,
inconvenience, questioning, and perhaps actual penalties from people
who sincerely thought that person was the one who carried out
the Mock Turtle's misdeeds.
Let's not lose sight of the facts.BillBarwell--and others?--have talked
to Colette and to Laura and, for all I know, to Dan Liepold or his
client. It is pretty plain that (1) the Mock Turtle had been given
the name of a real person and an SSN closely like that person's, and
(2) the only known link and most likely route of targeting that
particular person for identity theft was Carla Nelson of Chicago Org.
To make such preparations of itself suggests you think they are needed
for some purpose; so we can see that the Mock Turtle was both making
deliberate preparations to engage in dodgy activities, and it was most
likely the CofS that had her make those preparations for its purposes
[because they're the only known connection between Laura and this mess]
William Barwell
John Ritson <jo...@jritson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <cheFNCBq...@xemu.demon.co.uk>, Dave Bird
><da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <78tm5u$lt4$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, Ceon Ramon writes:
>>>In article <BGIykbBx...@xemu.demon.co.uk>,Dave Bird wrote:
>>>>In article <78t3lc$n44$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, Ceon Ramon
>>>>>
>>>>>The woman who was a volunteer for CAN and is accused by Bob Minton,
>>>>>Stacy Brooks and Jesse Prince of spying on their activities is named
>>>>>Laura Terepin. Whether she was born with that name,
>>
>> come off it. You know that is improbable to the extent of absurdity
>> given the rarity of the name, the opportunity she had to maliciously
>> take that name from a real person, & the fake social security number
>
>We will ignore the split infinitive, but "to maliciously take that
>name"?
>they do something like trying to use that identity to empty the first
>person's bank account, or acting discreditably in order to discredit the
>LT appears to have been a few calls from people seeking to confirm
>whether she was the same as LT2.
>
The original LT had a short involvement with a cult, through a boy
friend. The faux LT seems to have borrowed LT's ID because
of this. The claim gave her an excuse to get involved with
CAN and a claim to have been in a cult that would withstand
light and cursory investigation. The SS# scam was part of this, and was
probably one number off to avoid legal problems should she
be discovered.
So calculated rather than malicious might be a better word.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope of Houston
Slack!
John Ritson
<da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> writes
> I'm saying the name was n o t t a k e n i n g o o d f a i t h:
> that she intended no good -- presumably breach of confidence with
> clients' papers in a law office -- and she was using a false name and
> social security number so that, if discovered, she could run away and
> revert to her real name+SSN to avoid detection/liability for her acts.
But where is the evidence for the 'no good' as distinct from just the
false name? I could take on the name 'Larry Terapin' for nefarious
activities, and then revert to 'John Ritson' to hide, or carry on
nefarious activities as 'John Ritson' and then hide as 'Larry Terapin',
or call myself 'John Smith' and not even bother to change my name
afterwards, and with 'John Smith' I would not run the additional risk of
exposure on meeting someone who knew the genuine and unique Terapin
family.
>
>
> To prepare to commit crimes or wrongs against others, by preparing in
> advance ways of escaping detection or liability, is itself malicious
> towards the people she intended to wrong. Just like buying a gun or
> a getaway car as a deliberate preparation for wrongdoing.
Buying a car is significant when we have evidence of it being used in a
bank robbery.
>
> It was also done either deliberately hoping or recklessly risking that
> the person whose identity she stole would suffer a lot of blame,
> inconvenience, questioning, and perhaps actual penalties from people
> who sincerely thought that person was the one who carried out
> the Mock Turtle's misdeeds.
No evidence of anything more than mild inconvenience to the genuine LT.
>
> Let's not lose sight of the facts.BillBarwell--and others?--have talked
> to Colette and to Laura and, for all I know, to Dan Liepold or his
> client. It is pretty plain that (1) the Mock Turtle had been given
> the name of a real person and an SSN closely like that person's, and
> (2) the only known link and most likely route of targeting that
> particular person for identity theft was Carla Nelson of Chicago Org.
>
> To make such preparations of itself suggests you think they are needed
> for some purpose; so we can see that the Mock Turtle was both making
> deliberate preparations to engage in dodgy activities, and it was most
> likely the CofS that had her make those preparations for its purposes
> [because they're the only known connection between Laura and this mess]
'Some purpose'? Until and unless we have evidence of the actual 'crimes'
committed by LT2 we do not know the purpose.
Were the following all engaged in 'dodgy activities'?
T. E. Lawrence/ Aircraftman Ross
Eric Blair / George Orwell
Norma Jean Baker/ Marilyn Monroe
Diana Fluck / Diana Dors
Reg Dwight / Elton John
Mark Thatcher / Tony Blair (It's my theory, have they ever been seen
together?)
I understand that the performer's union 'Equity' has a rule that any new
member has to take a name different from that of any existing member,
presumably to avoid the embarrassment of the Royal Shakespeare Company
thinking they were hiring Sir John Gielgud for 'King Lear' only to find
out at rehearsal time that they were stuck with 'John Gielgud and his
performing pigeons'. Hence Paul Merton was originally Paul Martin.
LT2 could have been preparing for 'dodgy activities', have had a naff
original name, be a showbiz wannabe, be disassociating from an
unpleasant past, be on the run from the law or an ex-husband....
Let's have the evidence for the 'dodgy activities', please.
John *** "Finding out about one, even if it is just the death of a favorite dog,
return the pre-clear to it and run it from the first moment he hears the news of
it and for the ensuing few minutes of it. Then start it again. Reduce the moment
as an engram. You want an emotional discharge. Run it several times.
If you don't get a discharge, find some other moment of loss, some failure,
something, anything which will discharge: but do it all quietly as if with
sympathy. Lacking any success, start in repeater technique, never for a moment
giving any intelligence that you are anything but calmly concerned for his
welfare (even if some of his gyrations worry you). Try such phrases as 'Poor
little -- ' using his or her childhood name." L. Ron Hubbard 'Dianetics' ***
Keith Henson
snip
: I'm saying the name was n o t t a k e n i n g o o d f a i t h:
: that she intended no good -- presumably breach of confidence with
: clients' papers in a law office -- and she was using a false name and
: social security number so that, if discovered, she could run away and
: revert to her real name+SSN to avoid detection/liability for her acts.
If and I say *IF* CAN's LT took or was assigned that identity by Carla
Nelson who knew the LT of that birth name, then it was an op against CAN
from the very first time she went to a CAN conference and said she had
been in a cult which the birth name LT had dabbled in.
If this was an op, we are talking about an op which went on for close to
a decade. Keith Henson
David Gerard
> i had some time last weekend to talk to some of the perris pilots last
>weekend, so i figured i'd relay some of what i learned. i'm a pilot, and
>have flown jump planes from the right seat, but i've never flown jumpers as
>PIC.
-Same here, but to take an easy example..............
Think about an otter with only a 16 way..........Planes are not semi
trailers, they
are not built to handle huge weight differences, and on most the Centre of
gravity
area is reasonable but not to jump ship proportions. 16 people , say that
they weigh on
average 70 kgs each, and all of a sudden they are standing up and then
clustering at the door together on jump run........thats 1,120 kilos that
has just moved!!!
So please think about that next time the pilot/s talk to you about big exits
from their aircraft!!!! And also when you start to see sweat trickle from
their forehead you know it is time to GO!!
PS- Have done spins in a Cessna 172 (You aren't supposed to but my
instructor showed me one day!!!). We did an intentional stall and two anti
clockwise spins and lost 1,000 feet quicker than you could say "ooh shit!"
and that was a) intentional and b) not on jump run and with a far smaller
plane!
Something to think about.................
Mark D2636.
David Gerard
:I am more interested in seeing the evidence of explicit acts that LT2 is
:alleged to have committed than bothering about her assumed name.
Indeed.
--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/ http://suburbia.net/~fun/scn/
"My ex and I enjoyed fucking all the way through Margaret Thatcher's
resignation speech; it was most amusing." (Jennie Kermode)
David Gerard
David Gerard
Baba ROM DOS
>On 30 Jan 1999 01:10:22 GMT ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) wrote:
>
>>What did she have to gain from using the name Laura Terepin
>>rather than Mary Smith?
>
>I saw a speculation about that that seems to make sense. If people
>want to check your identity, they may find out that a Laura Terepin
>exists indeed. I guess that they probably won't go all the way to make
>a full investigation about it to realize that this Laura isn't the same as
>the other Laura. All they would probably do is check the records and
>see that it isn't a fictive name (mind you, I don't doubt that there are
>quite a lot of Mary Smith too, but somehow this name is too common
>to be very convincing).
Further, by taking the name of someone about whom a few
verifiable facts were known - where they went to school, for
example - one can give a false personal history that would
survive a quick background check.
>The fact that this was the *maiden* name of the OtherLaura also
>mitigates in this direction, since the OtherLaura probably uses now
>her current name for most of her dealings.
Or it might suggest that the information used to create the second
LT identity is fairly old information, and thus that the CAN Laura
may well have been using it for a long time.
Barbara seems to feel that if the CAN Laura has been going under
that name for "many years", it somehow disproves the theory that
she was operating under false pretences. I fail to see the logic.
She may have assumed the Laura valence many years ago, for
whatever reason. And the longer it worked, the more credible it
became, and the more valuable she would have become *if* she
were someone's operative.
It is surprising, improbable given the rarity of the name, but not
impossible, that two Lauras with some seemingly related elements
in their backgrounds exist naturally and independently.
Taking the SSN story into account, however, it just does not seem
plausible. Two Lauras with the same SSN aren't possible - one
must be an impostor. The odds against two specific people having
SSNs that differ only in one digit is, I believe, on the order of
100,000,000 to one. I don't buy such a coincidence.
That having been said, the fact that the CAN Laura was operating
under a borrowed identity does *not* prove that she was up to
no good. She may have changed her name to get away from
creditors, stalkers, family, or what have you. Or from some
previous and unrelated brush with the law, which would provide
an alternative explantion to her disappearance once she became
a focus of attention.
Nothing has been proven in any of this, which is why I still think
Bob's initial outing/flame was way out of line, but his theory,
that the CAN Laura was an operative used by the "Church",
remains one of the simplest interpretations of the known facts.
>Pure speculation, of course, but seems logical enough.
Thus on a.r.s. it's as good as true. ;-)
Bernie
<Baba_R...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Nothing has been proven in any of this, which is why I still think
>Bob's initial outing/flame was way out of line, but his theory,
>that the CAN Laura was an operative used by the "Church",
>remains one of the simplest interpretations of the known facts.
What facts??
While it seems probable that she used another identity
than her original one, I see no evidences convincing
enough to believe that she was an operative. The
testimony of those who knew her for a much longer
period than the Mintonistas points towards the fact
that she wasn't an operative, and at this stage I would
tend to think that they are right. The simplest
interpretation for me of what happened is that Minton
and his cohorts made a wrong assessment and that they
badly goofed up.
Cat O'Blivion
<Baba_R...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> She may have assumed the Laura valence many years ago, for
> whatever reason. And the longer it worked, the more credible it
> became, and the more valuable she would have become *if* she
> were someone's operative.
Right. So let's pretend for a second that, like Pope alleges,
CAN Laura got her name from the PC-folder of NWU Laura's
backsliding friend.
That would mean that the name and identity of Laura T. had
been grafted on to her at scientology's hands *before* she
was put in place at CAN, where she remained in place for
ten years. Yet somehow, after knowing her for scant *days*
Jesse Prince is convinced she's a plant, and two of his
anonymous pals are convinced within hours?
If CAN's Laura had shown the lack of subtlety as a spy
that Jesse claims to have witnessed, her cover in CAN would
have been blown almost instantly.
So which is she - a frighteningly effective deep-cover plant
who stayed in CAN for a decade without raising an eyebrow?
Or an obviously incompetent plant whose weird behaviour
gives her away almost instantaneously to nigh-total strangers?
I find it difficult to believe that the Laura who used the
obvious tactics (i.e. relentless pumping for information)
reported by Jesse would somehow manage to operate with the
level of stealth and finesse required to infiltrate CAN for
a decade.
And why hasn't Frank Oliver said anything (to my knowledge)
about being aware of her alleged implantation into CAN? If
anyone would be in a position to confirm a plant run in on
CAN, it would be he.
> Nothing has been proven in any of this, which is why I still think
> Bob's initial outing/flame was way out of line, but his theory,
> that the CAN Laura was an operative used by the "Church",
> remains one of the simplest interpretations of the known facts.
It may be one of the simplest interpretations of known
facts, but it too, has its problems. At the moment, this
whole scenario - the duelling Lauras, the transposed personal
histories, and Bob's behaviour of late - is all very much
a mystery to me.
Cat
SP4, KoX
--
Stop the Spam on alt.religion.scientology - http://www.xenu.net
"I dare you, to be real, to touch a flickering flame..."
- Bauhaus -
Keith Henson
: In article <7942mi$b...@news3.newsguy.com>, "Baba ROM DOS"
: <Baba_R...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: > She may have assumed the Laura valence many years ago, for
: > whatever reason. And the longer it worked, the more credible it
: > became, and the more valuable she would have become *if* she
: > were someone's operative.
: Right. So let's pretend for a second that, like Pope alleges,
: CAN Laura got her name from the PC-folder of NWU Laura's
: backsliding friend.
: That would mean that the name and identity of Laura T. had
: been grafted on to her at scientology's hands *before* she
: was put in place at CAN, where she remained in place for
: ten years. Yet somehow, after knowing her for scant *days*
: Jesse Prince is convinced she's a plant, and two of his
: anonymous pals are convinced within hours?
: If CAN's Laura had shown the lack of subtlety as a spy
: that Jesse claims to have witnessed, her cover in CAN would
: have been blown almost instantly.
I think her mode of operating was changed at the point she was
pointed at FACTNet and Jesse.
: So which is she - a frighteningly effective deep-cover plant
: who stayed in CAN for a decade without raising an eyebrow?
: Or an obviously incompetent plant whose weird behaviour
: gives her away almost instantaneously to nigh-total strangers?
: I find it difficult to believe that the Laura who used the
: obvious tactics (i.e. relentless pumping for information)
: reported by Jesse would somehow manage to operate with the
: level of stealth and finesse required to infiltrate CAN for
: a decade.
: And why hasn't Frank Oliver said anything (to my knowledge)
: about being aware of her alleged implantation into CAN? If
: anyone would be in a position to confirm a plant run in on
: CAN, it would be he.
From second hand sources, Frank was not directly involved, but
he did say that there were multiple ops going on at CAN.
: > Nothing has been proven in any of this, which is why I still think
: > Bob's initial outing/flame was way out of line, but his theory,
: > that the CAN Laura was an operative used by the "Church",
: > remains one of the simplest interpretations of the known facts.
: It may be one of the simplest interpretations of known
: facts, but it too, has its problems. At the moment, this
: whole scenario - the duelling Lauras, the transposed personal
: histories, and Bob's behaviour of late - is all very much
: a mystery to me.
Ha! You think it is a mystery. Get closer and start digging, and
surpasses all reasonable levels for weirdness. Keith Henson
Dave Bird
<jo...@jritson.demon.co.uk> writes
>Were the following all engaged in 'dodgy activities'?
>T. E. Lawrence/ Aircraftman Ross
>Eric Blair / George Orwell
>Norma Jean Baker/ Marilyn Monroe
>Diana Fluck / Diana Dors
>Reg Dwight / Elton John
>Mark Thatcher / Tony Blair (It's my theory, have they ever been seen
>together?)
No, but they had an obvious honest motivation for the change
of name: in most cases, a more memorable name to put on
a playbill or book-cover.
I have not heard any of them even accused of stealing confidential
information under the assumed name, with the aim of running away
under their original name.
-- __
.,-;-;-,. /'_\ : They seek her here, they seek her there, :
_/_/_/_|_\_\) / : those critics seek her everywhere --- :
'-<_><_><_><_>=/\ : is she in LA or gone for a swim, :
jgs `/_/====/_/-'\_\ : that damned elusive Terrapin ? :
........"".....""....""..:>>>>>>>>>>> WHO IS THE MOCK TURTLE <<<<<<<<<
{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/people.turtle.html"}????{/a}
Zane
wrote:
>I think her mode of operating was changed at the point she was
>pointed at FACTNet and Jesse.
Whoa there Keith, just a freaking minute. In a reply to another
thread you said that you hadn't claimed that LT was an osa spy. Wtf
are you doing there? You aren't saying "if" or "maybe". You're
making absolute statements.
>From second hand sources, Frank was not directly involved, but
>he did say that there were multiple ops going on at CAN.
Big deal. Of course there were, geesh.
>Ha! You think it is a mystery. Get closer and start digging, and
>surpasses all reasonable levels for weirdness.
Facts please. I've seen enough from FactNots, got any real
information or are you digging in a cesspool of innuendo and wild
theories?
Zane
Work like you don't need the money; Love like you've
never been hurt; and Dance like no one's watching.
e...@some.where
Harvey Johnson wrote:
>
> Adam Smith wrote in message <7914kc$hd4$1...@news1.bu.edu>...
> >And as much as I hate to be
> >benefitting from an unfortunate circumstance like this one, last
> >night's arrest of Eugene Robinson seems to put an exclamation point on
> >a week of distractions for the Falcons.
> >
> I can see it now. Thousands of reporters converging on the Falcons hotel at
> 4:00 am in the morning. Fighting to get the best position to be able to
> yell questions at the players as they try and eat breakfast. Paparazzi like
> car chases around town all day. The same scene at the stadium. I know this
> sounds partial because I favor the Broncos, but I almost think it would be
> better for Reeves to say hes not playing and send him home in the morning.
> It would take some of the heat off the situation.
>
> Has anyone contacted Shannon Sharpe for his reaction yet????????
Yeah, he said he may look like Mr. Ed, but at least he gets his
blow jobs for free.
e...@some.where
Karin Spaink
> Ceon Ramon <ce...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
[Can LT]
> > She's had this name for years. Are you telling me you know she adopted
> > this name (if she did) for purposes of deception? What deception? Be
> > specific. What did she have to gain from using the name Laura Terepin
> > rather than Mary Smith?
> *If* she's indeed an OSA plant, presumably she adopted the name to
> infiltrate the old CAN. Why that name? Perhaps because OSA had enough
> details about the real Laura nee Terepin through her former friend's auditing
> sessions to set up a convincing fake identity.
Keith estimated -- in <hkhensonF...@netcom.com> that
CAN's Laura must have started working at CAN some ten years
ago. I haven't seen anybody who _could_ refute this (e.g.
Jim Beebe) actually disagree with this, so for now I'll take
that as the beginning of the CAN LT time-line.
circa 1989: CAN Laura emerges
Laura née Terepin wrote to a.r.s. in July 1996, stating that
she'd lost a friend ("my best friend"), who we now seem to
know has Carla Nelson as her maiden name, to the cult. In
that posting Laura née T dates the beginning of Carla's
acquaintance with the cult at 1984. Laura née Terepin
writes: "Within one year, my friend began the auditing
process and it was downhill from there." Thus:
1985: Carla Nelson goes into the cult
In that same posting, Laura née Terrepin also writes: "Now,
in 1996, this woman has left her husband, has no friends
or contacts out of the org, and has not had a job in the
real world in eight years."
Subtract 8 years from 1996 and you have 1988. Thus:
1988: Carla Nelson disconnects from the wogs
In January 1999, TheOtherLaura_T posted to a.r.s. in
<787ila$mt2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>: "She [=Carla Nelson, who
has by now remarried and so probably uses a different
surname] knew me as that name (I've always hated it and had
it legally changed). Also, when she got involved with Co$,
she tried to get me to join too. I received two or three
calls from the Chicago org before they gave up on me, so I
know that that name is in a file drawer or database at the
Chicago org."
Somewhere between 1985 and 1988 -- or perhaps during all
these years -- Carla Nelson tried to get Laura née Terepin
into the cult, while simoultaneously the (ex-)husband and
Laura née Terepin tried to get Carla out.
In this period, Laura née Terepin's name is bound to have
come up during Carla Nelson's auditing sessions. And the
Chicago Org phoned Laura née Terepin a couple of times
before they gave up.
Let's put this mutual giving up at 1988 too, and locate
it in the same year in which Carla disconnected from the
world.
1988: Chicago Org gives up on Laura née Terepin
Concluding: the idea that, if CAN Laura is using a false
identity, and if the suggestion to do so come from our fave
cult, the timeline fits. Also, _if_ this is a correct
scenario, CoS has inside and intimate knowledge about Laura
née Terepin, via the woman who used to be her best friend.
Scientology had the means and the opportunity to create a
convincing faux Laura Terepin. It's just the motive that is
lacking: why take the LT identity? (But perhaps that
question is circular, and the answer should be: because they
had the means and the opportunity.)
groet,
Karin Spaink
- I write, therefore I am:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink
Cat O'Blivion
>
>
>BEGIN --- CUT HERE --- Cut Here --- cut here --- copy (11) of broncos
rule3.txt
>
>
Cat O'Blivion
Keith Henson
snip (excellent analysis)
: In this period, Laura née Terepin's name is bound to have
: come up during Carla Nelson's auditing sessions. And the
: Chicago Org phoned Laura née Terepin a couple of times
: before they gave up.
: Let's put this mutual giving up at 1988 too, and locate
: it in the same year in which Carla disconnected from the
: world.
: 1988: Chicago Org gives up on Laura née Terepin
: Concluding: the idea that, if CAN Laura is using a false
: identity, and if the suggestion to do so come from our fave
: cult, the timeline fits. Also, _if_ this is a correct
: scenario, CoS has inside and intimate knowledge about Laura
: née Terepin, via the woman who used to be her best friend.
: Scientology had the means and the opportunity to create a
: convincing faux Laura Terepin. It's just the motive that is
: lacking: why take the LT identity? (But perhaps that
: question is circular, and the answer should be: because they
: had the means and the opportunity.)
CoS always had a motive to put an operative in the CAN office. They spent
millions to take over CAN, second only to their effort on the IRS.
As to why they used this background . . . the NWU Laura wrote me that she
was slightly involved in another cult, her boyfriend of the time was
deeply involved, and that Carla Nelson knew about it. CAN's LT got
involved in CAN at a meeting about ten years ago where she claimed to have
been badly damaged by her time in this other cult, thus providing a reason
for being at a CAN gathering and becoming friends with the CAN organizers.
CAN has always been a paranoid organization (comes with the job they did).
I went to one CAN meeting (Kansas City if I remember right) along about
this time to talk about memetics in relation to cults and ran into
considerable hostility. I had never been in a cult so they figured I
might be trying to infiltrate. The converse may have been that someone
who claimed to have been damaged by being in a cult would quickly gain
sympathy and acceptance.
Also, if someone did background checking, the association of NWU Laura
with the other cult would provide possible cover. In fact, Bob did locate
former members of the other cult who remembered a Laura Terepin, but in
retrospect, they were almost certainly remembering NWU Laura.
These factors would have been known to Carla Nelson/OAS as they pondered
the problem of getting an operative into CAN.
Ignoring the SSN business, we have two women using an extremely rare name,
and claiming to be in the same small cult at the same time. I have
problems with this account. Does it work for you?
Keith Henson
PS, I can not blame CAN's staff for being taken in (if this was an op)
because who would expect spy techniques which are applied by the
superpowers on each other to be used on a tiny non-profit like CAN?
PPS, From public records I belive I know the name under which CAN's LT
holds property. I am not certain enough to post it, but the records are
open if you want to ask me for a pointer in email.
Hud Nordin
>Ignoring the SSN business, we have two women using an extremely rare name,
>and claiming to be in the same small cult at the same time. I have
>problems with this account. Does it work for you?
I am curious. If there are people who defend the CAN LT as the "real
McCoy", would they confide to her information Scientology, Inc. could
use to do more evil?
--
Hud Nordin <h...@netcom.com> Silicon Valley
David Gerard
>
>
>
>wing1: carrawell, because he's a great defender and he makes big plays.
>slokaloja is merely a solid college player...big deal.
>
Which makes him different from Okulaja how exactly? Okulaja is a great
defender and makes big plays. Carrawell, like Okie, is a solid college
player. I certainly hope you don't think Chris is gonna be a star at the
next level.
David Gerard
David Gerard
Steve A
> In article <BGIykbBx...@xemu.demon.co.uk>,
> Dave Bird <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Morally, if not in law, I don't recognise someone using a name
> > they have adopted simply for purposes of deception
>
> She's had this name for years. Are you telling me you know she adopted
> this name (if she did) for purposes of deception? What deception? Be
> specific. What did she have to gain from using the name Laura Terepin
> rather than Mary Smith?
I suppose the truth is that none of us really know, and that is why I
am bending over backwards to avoid reaching a definitive judgement on
this matter.
BUT, if we take even some of what Bob Minton et al have had to say at
face value, then we have an individual who has taken an extremely rare
name, and whose social security number is remarkably close to that of
someone else with that rare name. Furthermore, there is more than a
little doubt as to the affiliations of this (the first one)
individual. Once we see even a little supporting evidence to
substantiate Bob's claims, I cannot see how this can be explained in
terms of coincidence.
As far as what she had to gain from using such an unusual name, I
guess none of us will know until we know a little more. My suspicion
is that there is a tenuous connection (friend-of-a-friend kind of
thing) and that the LT name was taken for that reason, rather than
manufacturing an identity out of wholecloth.
> ; especially
> > if they have deliberately adopted the name of a real person so
> > blame for their acts can fall on that person.
>
> She's had this name for years. There is nothing to suggest she changed
> her name (if she did) for the purpose of casting blame (for what?) on
> someone else.
Do we know that the (allegedly) mock-Laura *has* had that name for
years? Is anything known of her history prior to her involvement with
CAN? Does any ex-Scn remember her from when she was in Scientology?
> > I want to know the Mock Turtle's real name.
>
> If you're really, really good, and if you promise to eat all your cereal
> every morning for _three whole weeks_, maybe we'll tell you. :-)
THREE WEEKS!!! But we'll be old then! :-)
> > Is there a picture of the Mock Turtle posted on a web-page?
> > Surely SOMEONE must recognise this impostor!
Be nice to think so...
--
Steve A, SP4++, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12,
pitiable little Dennie (plD) #1, non-Mintonista.
Banned by Windows 1984 ScienoSitter (2e+isp)
"Where don't they want you to go today?" - http://www.xenu.net
Steve A
Now THAT would be something of a value judgement. I'm not sure that I,
were I ever in such a position, would confide such information to
*anyone* without being very well assured of their bona fides.
But then, perhaps someone credulous (not in the insulting sense)
enough to accept that the faux LT could not possibly be a plant might
also be credulous enough to trust such a person.
Oops, a circular argument...
Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster
> In article <hkhensonF...@netcom.com> Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com>
writes:
> >Ignoring the SSN business, we have two women using an extremely rare name,
> >and claiming to be in the same small cult at the same time. I have
> >problems with this account. Does it work for you?
> I am curious. If there are people who defend the CAN LT as the "real
> McCoy", would they confide to her information Scientology, Inc. could
> use to do more evil?
I'd rather they feed the CAN LT some *dis*information too juicy for
the Cult to resist acting on should they get it...
--
Joe Foster <mailto:jfo...@ricochet.net> or <mailto:j...@bftsi0.gate.net>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my BTs have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!
Tilman Hausherr
wrote:
>Jim Beebe) actually disagree with this, so for now I'll take
>that as the beginning of the CAN LT time-line.
One addition to your excellent timeline:
1998 - Laura née Terepin reviews the "Book of the SubGenius".
(No scientology plant would ever do that !!!!!)
I did also re-real Laura's 1996 post - which I had saved on my HD. It
made me sad again.
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Clearwater pictures: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4497/clearwater/index.html
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Cat O'Blivion
ste...@castlsys.demon.co.uk (Steve A) wrote:
> Do we know that the (allegedly) mock-Laura *has* had that name for
> years?
She was with CAN for about ten years and was known to them
throughout this timespan as "Laura Terepin".
> Does any ex-Scn remember her from when she was in Scientology?
She was never with Scientology. She claims to have been
with a small new age cult with a nasty tendency towards
suicide - a cult with which NWU Laura coincidentally
claims to have had a brief and peripheral association.
If CAN Laura's account of her time with the Consciousness
Development group is true, her involvement was neither brief
nor peripheral. It would be interesting to see which
"Laura Terepin" former Consciousness Development members
recall, if either.
Cat O'Blivion
To Atlanta:
you guys had a greatseason
I have nothing but respect, but,
dan reeves has been passed up
by the west coast offenses
that he can't understand
or defend against.
Dans game plan: run, run, pass, punt. Repeat until you
get behind; then pass, pass, give up interception.
Repeat until game over.
He doesn't learn from his mistakes and will continue
to lose the big one for Atlanta like he did here.
Hells bells!! he won't get you past Minn. next year
they will adjust; DannyBoy can't.
Hey dan, Tom Landry/George Allen quit cuz they coudn't keep up
by using the same outdated style you still use
Take the hint!!!!!
"OH DannyBoy your heart is aching"
just like the heartache you gave us
and now Atlanta, too
Karma is a wonderfull thing.
dan, can you spell: RAT BASTARD?
Cat O'Blivion
Cat O'Blivion
William Barwell
Karin Spaink <ksp...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>"Joe \"Nuke Me Xemu\" Foster" <j...@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote:
>> Ceon Ramon <ce...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>
> 1988: Chicago Org gives up on Laura née Terepin
>
>Concluding: the idea that, if CAN Laura is using a false
>identity, and if the suggestion to do so come from our fave
>cult, the timeline fits. Also, _if_ this is a correct
>scenario, CoS has inside and intimate knowledge about Laura
>née Terepin, via the woman who used to be her best friend.
>
>Scientology had the means and the opportunity to create a
>convincing faux Laura Terepin. It's just the motive that is
>lacking: why take the LT identity? (But perhaps that
>question is circular, and the answer should be: because they
>had the means and the opportunity.)
It seems the real LT had a short involvement with a cult,
run by Terri Hoffman, and that gave the faux LT a borrowed reason for
getting involved in CAN. By borrowing LT's identity, this operative had
cover and a reason for involvement with CAN, which would hold up under
light scrutiny.
CAN was a main target for Scientology for years.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope of Houston
Slack!
Cat O'Blivion
>Great game, Broncos! Way to give Elway a send-off!
>
>Elliott
Thanks Elliot. Appreciate it.
Cat O'Blivion
Zane
wrote:
>She claims to have been
>with a small new age cult with a nasty tendency towards
>suicide - a cult with which NWU Laura coincidentally
>claims to have had a brief and peripheral association.
Also that's where the NWU LT (the fake one <g>) could have acquired
knowledge of the CAN LT (the real LT) and stolen her identity.
Keith Henson
: On 2 Feb 1999 23:11:24 GMT, rain...@xenu.bluecrow.com (Cat O'Blivion)
: wrote:
: >She claims to have been
: >with a small new age cult with a nasty tendency towards
: >suicide - a cult with which NWU Laura coincidentally
: >claims to have had a brief and peripheral association.
: Also that's where the NWU LT (the fake one <g>) could have acquired
: knowledge of the CAN LT (the real LT) and stolen her identity.
Can you think of a plausible motive? Keith Henson
Zane
wrote:
>: Also that's where the NWU LT (the fake one <g>) could have acquired
>: knowledge of the CAN LT (the real LT) and stolen her identity.
>
>Can you think of a plausible motive?
Sure. The NWU LT has worked for OSA all along and attended the
consciousness whatever cult as part of her regular work. Also, at
some point, she needed to have an ID to use and so she stole CAN LT's
ID. Lord only knows what awful things she has done using CAN LT's ID,
but I think we should launch an investigation immediately!
Rebecca Hartong
Zane wrote in message <36cabd96....@enews.newsguy.com>...
>On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:16:01 GMT, Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>>: Also that's where the NWU LT (the fake one <g>) could have acquired
>>: knowledge of the CAN LT (the real LT) and stolen her identity.
>>
>>Can you think of a plausible motive?
>
>Sure. The NWU LT has worked for OSA all along and attended the
>consciousness whatever cult as part of her regular work. Also, at
>some point, she needed to have an ID to use and so she stole CAN LT's
>ID. Lord only knows what awful things she has done using CAN LT's ID,
>but I think we should launch an investigation immediately!
This scenario occurred to me, as well. ;-)
After all, we can confirm that CAN LT has been known by that name for at
least 10 years. How long does NWU LT's verifiable history using that name
go back? 3 or 4 years? Hmmmm....
And have you seen (what I'm presuming is) the web page of NWU LT? This is
not a conventional person.
Dave Bird
>OH NO!!!! Another black athlete has done something wrong!!! One NIGGER
ruining
>it for his whole team!!! Not unusual today!! A nigger is a nigger!! And
the
>whole city of Atlanta is full of NIGGERS!!!
>
>Swami
Really no need to repond on this one you already showed everyone how big
an idiot you are.
Dave Bird
Nick Andrew
>On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:16:01 GMT, Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com>
>wrote:
>>: Also that's where the NWU LT (the fake one <g>) could have acquired
>>: knowledge of the CAN LT (the real LT) and stolen her identity.
>>
>>Can you think of a plausible motive?
>Sure. The NWU LT has worked for OSA all along and attended the
>consciousness whatever cult as part of her regular work.
If the CD cult were predisposed toward suicide, it might be
considered unlikely that an imposter would be discovered by chance.
Nick.
--
Zeta Internet SP4 Fax: +61-2-9233-6545 Voice: 9231-9400
G.P.O. Box 3400, Sydney NSW 1043 http://www.zeta.org.au/
Ceon Ramon
Quebec Canada zone 4b
JOE ELLIOTT wrote:
>
> Last year I ordered from a nursery called Hardy Roses for the North.
> They had a very large selection of roses all on their own roots. Since
> I live in Montana this seemed like a good option for me. Their catalog
> had good notes on all listed plants. I hoped to order from them again
> this year. I attempted to call them today and also to reach them via a
> web page address I have for them. They phone seems to be disconnected
> and I get nothing when I try to go to their web address. Since I had
> heard about them for years before ordering and since they had a very
> nice catalog I am having a hard time assuming they have simply gone out
> of business. Does anyone know if this nursery has indeed gone out of
> business? If not does anyone know how to reach them now?
>
> Thanks for any respones on this. Nancy Volle, Missoula, Montana
Cat O'Blivion
>On 28 Jan 1999, Sam4174 wrote:
>
>>
>> I think it was a great match-up...i think avery pretty much took over in
the
>> 2nd half...stopped cota's penetration (damn did he need to...i was
embarrassed
>> for him for those 1st 20 minutes) and scored at big moments, as is his
custom.
>
>Don't you think that Cota's ankle injury contributed a little? No wait, I
>forgot that Avery is the best point guard ever. Sorry.
>Speaking of, what happened to Cota's ankle? I was watching on TV and he
>seemed fine. They go to a replay, and when they come back, he's limping
>off the court.
>
Cota didn't have an ankle injury. He had leg cramps.
>>
>> DUKE FANS, BELIEVE IN YOUR TEAM!!!!
>
>
>Jeremy Chapman
>Mississippi State '92
>Wake Forest '94
>