How Scientology compares to Nazism AKA Scio = Nazi
Nomen Nescio
The photos of the comparison are chilling.
------------------------
Roadrunn...@gmail.com
> http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/propaganda/prop1.html
>
> The photos of the comparison are chilling.
Actually this exposes the person having this website. This is a
deliberate attempt to association. You can replace the Scientology
pictures with ANY outfit that has military like uniforms. Indeed this
IS propaganda!
Roadrunner
Android Cat
Oh? What other groups does Sceientology like to dress up as for /their/
propaganda?
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/clearwatersun/sun-nazi-1279.htm
http://www.suburbia.net/~fun/scn/demo/9705-cos-nazi/
--
Ron of that ilk.
barb
military?
Let's see...
Some white supremacy groups like to dress up like Nazi Stormtroopers.
Oh yeah...so do Scientologists!
--
Barb "That's Captain Barbossa to you!"
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
It's Poodlin' Time!
“I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist
so long as we don’t step over the line. When religious worship and
belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and
the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
appropriate.”
--Robert Goff
Professor Emeritus, UCSC
Tom Newton
<xenu...@netscape.net> wrote:
> Roadrunn...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On 22 Juni, 15:30, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/propaganda/prop1.html
>>>
>>> The photos of the comparison are chilling.
>>
>> Actually this exposes the person having this website. This
>> is a deliberate attempt to association. You can replace the
>> Scientology pictures with ANY outfit that has military like
>> uniforms. Indeed this IS propaganda!
So a member of 'Anonymous', which has adapted the anti-Jewish
propaganda techniques of the Nazis for use against the Church
of Scientology, and literally does nothing else, is accusing
someone else of propagandizing?
Reminds me of a thief I once met. He was always accusing
people of trying to rip him off.
>> Roadrunner
>
> And what sort of "outfits" have military-style uniforms outside
> of the military?
>
> Let's see... Some white supremacy groups like to dress up like
> Nazi Stormtroopers. Oh yeah...so do Scientologists!
Oh yeah....so do Boy Scouts.
Tom
--
The Truth will set you free:
http://www.sethcenter.com
Gerry Armstrong
<androi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Roadrunn...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 22 Juni, 15:30, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/propaganda/prop1.html
>>>
>>> The photos of the comparison are chilling.
>>
>> Actually this exposes the person having this website. This is a
>> deliberate attempt to association. You can replace the Scientology
>> pictures with ANY outfit that has military like uniforms. Indeed this
>> IS propaganda!
>
>Oh? What other groups does Sceientology like to dress up as for /their/
>propaganda?
The wog group. LFBD F/N
Yes, in their propaganda, you see all sorts of clams dressed up
exactly like wogs. F/N
Even DM's number two dresses like a wog, and in fact pretends to be a
wog in his movies. F/N
The clams do this because they seek to subvert wog society. F/N
Pursuant to Scientology tech, wogs blow the wog group to become clams
because of their mu's and their crimes. Pursuant to their own tech,
clams only recruit criminals; that is wogs willing to blow their
group. F/N
And these clam criminals continue to dress up like hominids in the wog
group in order to recruit more criminals into the clam cult they've
joined. F/TA
>
>http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/clearwatersun/sun-nazi-1279.htm
>http://www.suburbia.net/~fun/scn/demo/9705-cos-nazi/
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
obscene dog
<ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote:
> F/N
I'm guessing this means "Floating Needle".
> F/TA
What does this mean?
--
Don't get in front of me.
What the... Oh, shi-
Gerry Armstrong
wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:22:28 GMT, Gerry Armstrong
><ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote:
>
>> F/N
>
> I'm guessing this means "Floating Needle".
>
>> F/TA
>
>What does this mean?
Floating Tone Arm.
From Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary © 1983:
FLOATING NEEDLE, 1 . the idle uninfluenced movement of the needle on
the dial without any patterns or reactions in it. It can be as small
as one inch or as large as dial wide. It does not fall or drop to the
right of the dial. It moves to the left at the same speed as it moves
to the right. It is observed on a Mark V E-meter calibrated with the
TA between 2 .0 and 3 .0 with GIs in on the pc. It can occur after a
cognition, blowdown of the TA or just moves into floating. The pc may
or may not voice the cognition. (HCOB 7 May 69 V) 2 . floating
needles, free needles are the same thing. Once you’ve seen one you’ll
never make a mistake on one again. For it floats. It ceases to
register on the pc’s bank. It just idly floats about or won’t stand up
even at low sensitivity. The TA goes to any place between 2 and 3 and
the needle floats. (HCOB 2 Aug 65) Abbr. F/N.
FLOATING TA, the pc is so released the needle can’t be gotten onto the
dial. The needle is swinging wider than the meter dial both ways from
center and appears to lay first on one side and then the other. The TA
can’t be moved fast enough to keep the extreme floating needle on the
dial. (HCOB 24 Oct 71)
[...]
TONE ARM, 1. meter control lever. (HCO PL 5 May 65) 2 . the measure of
accumulation of charge. (Class VIII No. 6) 3 . registers density of
mass (ridges, pictures, machines, circuits) in the mind of the
preclear. This is actual mass, not imaginary, and can be weighed,
measured by resistance etc. Therefore the tone arm registers state of
case at any given time in processing. The tone arm also registers
advance of case during processing by moving. (EME, p. 9) 4 . the tone
arm reads at 5000 ohms female and 12,500 ohms male for the body. It
reads the body. When a person is Clear the E-meter ceases to read.
That tells you why a dead thetan reads at 2 or 3 . (SH Spec 1,
6105C07) 5 . the instrument which measures the adequacy of
restimulation. That shows you that an adequate amount of charge is
being restimulated in the session, and that it is being adequately
dispelled on the itsa line. This shows you that the cycle of
what’s-it-itsa is in progress and the amount of restimulation is
adequate to get auditing done. (SH Spec 295, 6308C15) Abbr. TA.
HTH
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
obscene dog
Nec_V20
I invoke Godwin's Law
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
rubbish
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/confusion-technique2.htm
I know Mike Godwin.
CALLING someone a nazi to win an argument is not cool
However, there is HARD EVIDENCE when you do a side by side comparison
that Hubbard invoked most of the propogranda tricks and hypnosis
tricks of nazism... It is the same thing. Creating workers who would
would willingly shovel meat bodies into the shop..They even call the
public MEAT BODIES.... and work to get BODIES INTO THE SHOP.... And
then they PROCESS THE BODIES.....
They have cheap slave labor they call rehabiliotiation camps... thats
what Hitler called his in the beginning...they were marketed for
rehabilitation and reeducation...
Either you can not read and learn from history or you are in denial,
or you are obeying your program orders.
Calling a nazi a nazi is not godwins law, it is english.
Start here, find any errors of fact... and post them..with evidence.
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/
Knopp, an expert on World War II history, said in an interview with
Bild newspaper: "Tom Cruise's manner calls to mind Goebbels.
After scientology attacked canadian libraries with legal threats and
intimidatory tactics to remove critical books about scn, they issued a
poster with a burning nazi flag, which said "Books scared THEM"
http://www.lermanet.com/books/books-scared-them.htm
A Nazi Like Organization
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/der-spiegel-scientology-nazis.htm
Scientologists claiming to be nazis in prior lives
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/scientologists-past-life-nazis.htm
Hitler renovated old buildings because he liked to show off and had
slave labor too
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/historic-building.htm
It has always been the writers contention that Hitler is the greatest
hypnotist of our day" G. H. Estabrooks
Roadrunn...@gmail.com
> Roadrunner.eni...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On 22 Juni, 15:30, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
> >>http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/propaganda/prop1.html
>
> >> The photos of the comparison are chilling.
>
> > Actually this exposes the person having this website. This is a
> > deliberate attempt to association. You can replace the Scientology
> > pictures with ANY outfit that has military like uniforms. Indeed this
> > IS propaganda!
>
> Oh? What other groups does Sceientology like to dress up as for /their/
> propaganda?
Funny, you did not duplicate my words.
Roadrunner
Roadrunn...@gmail.com
> Roadrunner.eni...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On 22 Juni, 15:30, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
> >>http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/propaganda/prop1.html
>
> >> The photos of the comparison are chilling.
>
> > Actually this exposes the person having this website. This is a
> > deliberate attempt to association. You can replace the Scientology
> > pictures with ANY outfit that has military like uniforms. Indeed this
> > IS propaganda!
>
> > Roadrunner
>
> And what sort of "outfits" have military-style uniforms outside of the
> military?
>
> Let's see...
> Some white supremacy groups like to dress up like Nazi Stormtroopers.
> Oh yeah...so do Scientologists!
Take the military itself, anywhere. Are they all nazi's?
Roadrunner
stopsci...@hushmail.com
Normen wrote:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/propaganda/prop1.html
The photos of the comparison are chilling.
------------------------
magicus
> And what sort of "outfits" have military-style uniforms outside of the
> military?
>
> Let's see...
> Some white supremacy groups like to dress up like Nazi Stormtroopers.
> Oh yeah...so do Scientologists!
>
I can think of at least one other group not mentioned previously, the
"Salvation Army" ;-P
just sayin'...
Kat
composition, and line can have impact on those who are viewing it.
This is nothing new. Take for instance the pics of Davey Boy at the
podium on stage in 2007. The whole scene in back of him, the rays
coming up from the background, centered on the speaker, the arch
between the insignia's behind him, all of this draws the viewer's eye
to the man in the center. Attention, even at a distance, would be
drawn towards his face from the farthest part of the auditorium, even
if his face was no more than a mere spec in the visual field. The
stage to the left and right of him is decorated in such a way that
anywhere you looked, there is something drawing your attention right
back to the center. Its all arranged to create a big impact, and to
make the speaker appear larger than life (or in Davery Boy's hopes,
maybe at least a few inches taller). Look at the lines of many of
these illustrations. Render in your mind the person to a simple stick
figure, and track the major lines of motion and of the background.
Sketch it out if it helps. You will see alot of startling
similarities.
BarbaraSc...@excite.com
You are right, RR. One can replace the old Nazis with the new German
government, p$ychs or with the anti-extremists and the anonymous
crowd.
It is indeed just propaganda. Stupid people fall for it, smart people
look through it.
Barbara Schwarz
My abusers, defamers and cyber stalkers:
Tilman Hausherr and Korey Jerome Kruse
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/media-newsroom/tilman-hausherr/
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/media-newsroom/tilman-hausherr/
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/intolerance-hate/whistle-blowers/the-clearwater-letters/tilman-hausherr/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/kids.htm#Debate_with_Tilman_Hausherr
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Hausherr&btnG=Google+Search&domains=BERNIE.CNCFAMILY.COM&sitesearch=BERNIE.CNCFAMILY.COM
http://www.alarmgermany.org/tilman.htm
http://stalkerkoreykruse.wordpress.com/
http://phorums.com.au/archive/index.php/t-156307.html
Nec_V20
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jun 22, 7:28 pm, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 22, 2:30 pm, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/propaganda/prop1.html
>
> > > The photos of the comparison are chilling.
>
> > > ------------------------
>
> > I invoke Godwin's Law
>
>
> I know Mike Godwin.
>
> CALLING someone a nazi to win an argument is not cool
>
> However, there is HARD EVIDENCE when you do a side by side comparison
> that Hubbard invoked most of the propogranda tricks and hypnosis
> tricks of nazism... It is the same thing. Creating workers who would
> would willingly shovel meat bodies into the shop..They even call the
> public MEAT BODIES.... and work to get BODIES INTO THE SHOP.... And
> then they PROCESS THE BODIES.....
>
> They have cheap slave labor they call rehabiliotiation camps... thats
> what Hitler called his in the beginning...they were marketed for
> rehabilitation and reeducation...
>
> Either you can not read and learn from history or you are in denial,
> or you are obeying your program orders.
> Calling a nazi a nazi is not godwins law, it is english.
>
> Start here, find any errors of fact... and post them..with evidence.
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/
> Knopp, an expert on World War II history, said in an interview with
> Bild newspaper: "Tom Cruise's manner calls to mind Goebbels.
>
> After scientology attacked canadian libraries with legal threats and
> intimidatory tactics to remove critical books about scn, they issued a
> poster with a burning nazi flag, which said "Books scared THEM"http://www.lermanet.com/books/books-scared-them.htm
>
>
> Scientologists claiming to be nazis in prior liveshttp://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/scientologists-past-li...
>
> Hitler renovated old buildings because he liked to show off and had
>
> It has always been the writers contention that Hitler is the greatest
> hypnotist of our day" G. H. Estabrooks
Arnie,
somewhere along the line the Nazi comparison has pretty much been
flogged to death. Even the title of the thread betrays an ignorance
which is inexcusable and tragic. Although Jews have gotten the most
publicity, the majority of those persecuted and killed by my people
were not Jews.
The Sinti&Roma, homosexuals, declared Jews, "impure" babies, eastern
slave labour, Jehovah Witnesses, Communists, Socialists and the list
goes on and on. Also the number of six million is pretty conservative,
and is actually a lot higher - at some estimates twice that number.
Be that as it may, it is a superlative that - like so many others -
has basically been rendered meaningless.
I remember a few years back, when Liverpool FC won the European
Championship against all odds. The press had wasted their superlatives
on games like Bamf vs. Bumfuck so that when something really
extraordinary like this happened they just didn't have the words.
Another example would be 9/11. Take a look back at the reporting and
you will find that the reporters had no words. They had devalued the
language to the point where they quite literally had nothing with
which to express themselves.
Another aspect is that comparing something which is in comparison
trivial in the extent of its abuse such as Scientology to what
happened in my country from 1933-1945 devalues the tragedy and the
victims for which my country was responsible.
Also from a PR point of view, the comparison has been so done to
death, that it is almost as if, "oh, well we/they are being compared
to the Nazi's so we/they can't be that bad - so have <insert your
trivial comparison here>".
This is the background to "Godwin's Law".
One person who I have found has fought back against the devaluation of
language is Keith Olbermann. If you listen to his special comments, he
conveys outrage in a commensurate language.
Tom N
<ebe88135-4313-4f8b...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com
> On Jun 22, 7:28 pm, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 22, 2:30 pm, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/propaganda/prop1.html
>>
>> > The photos of the comparison are chilling.
>>
>> > ------------------------
>>
>> I invoke Godwin's Law
Won't do you any good.
>
> rubbish
> http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/confusion-technique2.htm
>
>
> I know Mike Godwin.
>
> CALLING someone a nazi to win an argument is not cool
Unless the comparison is accurate.
The only people who object to be compared to the Nazis
are people who are indeed like the Nazis.
And I don't know of a more Nazi-like group than 'Anonymous'.
Their anti-Scientology propaganda campaign is extremely similar to
the anti-Jewish propaganda campaign run by the Nazis leading up
to WWII.
Many, many people have made the same observation. Some of them
here. This is one example:
> Path: news.edisontel.com!nntp.eutelia.it!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!postnews.google.com!k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> From: "Dave M." <david.a....@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Subject: Re: Clearwater Cultist Business Owners Don't Believe in
> Constitutional Rights
> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 18:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Lines: 41
> Message-ID: <cb40be13-6d8b-418d...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
> References: <d105d3ef-55a8-4404...@q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
> <8d186728-997f-4ac9...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
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> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> X-Trace: posting.google.com 1210726832 12814 127.0.0.1 (14 May 2008 01:00:32 GMT)
> X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 01:00:32 +0000 (UTC)
> Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> Injection-Info: k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com; posting-host=72.36.247.114;
> posting-account=TFYoMwoAAAC8VMYC7KR3vrt1q1saa_YX
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> AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Safari/525.18,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
> Xref: treeoflife.3v8l2x.net alt.religion.scientology:38663
C_Van wrote:
> On May 13, 3:12=EF=BF=BDpm, redcoat1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Scary little freaks these cultists are.
> >
> > They want to take away the right to peacefully assemble.
> >
> > What a crock.
> >
> > http://forums.enturbulation.org/15-breaking-news/anonymous-stifles-cl...=
> >
> > This will backfire, and it will be sweet.
>
> What amazes me is that they put signs in their windows refusing to
> serve anons and then complain that their business suffers on the one
> day a month when the protestors are there. The cafe's and quick-stop
> stores would probably make a ton of money if they served anons. If
> these stores had signs saying "No Jews" or "we do not serve blacks",
> the law would be all over them. This could be a MAJOR footbullet for
> them.
Geesh, that may be the most massive unwitting PKB I've ever seen on
Usenet.
"Anonymous" is not a protected group as far as US hate crime laws go,
but Scientologists certainly are. Why do you think ya'll's YouTube
crap gets yanked so easily?
It's more like a "No KKK" sign than anything else. The Jewish
comparison is particularly stirring, considering that most of the
stuff Scientology is accused of today is exactly the same stuff Jews
have been accused of for centuries. You could substitute
"Scientologist" for "Jew" in many hate group articles and you'd ALL
agree with them!
BTW, I will not be reading any replies to this post and will not be
visiting this group ever again. I've done the research, and it's plain
that trying to talk reason to anyone posting here is like defending
black people or Jews at a Neo-Nazi site. They have so-called
statistics and purported facts to quote, too, and that doesn't make
their hate any less disgusting.
endquote
<snip>
I've deleted the rest. Lerma is a very Nazi-like bigot and hate
monger and nothing he says about the Church of Scientology
can be trusted.
Just ask him to prove his assertions about them and kick back
and listen to the garbage he will spew in lieu of providing that
evidence. Because it doesn't exist.
I think he's insane, frankly.
Nec_V20
> On 2008-06-23, in
> <ebe88135-4313-4f8b-94ba-5397e9ac9...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com
>
> > Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> <ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Jun 22, 7:28 pm, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Jun 22, 2:30 pm, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
>
> >> >http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/propaganda/prop1.html
>
> >> > The photos of the comparison are chilling.
>
> >> > ------------------------
>
> >> I invoke Godwin's Law
>
> Won't do you any good.
>
>
>
> > rubbish
> >http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/confusion-technique2.htm
>
> > I know Mike Godwin.
>
> > CALLING someone a nazi to win an argument is not cool
>
> Unless the comparison is accurate.
>
> The only people who object to be compared to the Nazis
> are people who are indeed like the Nazis.
>
> And I don't know of a more Nazi-like group than 'Anonymous'.
>
> Their anti-Scientology propaganda campaign is extremely similar to
> the anti-Jewish propaganda campaign run by the Nazis leading up
> to WWII.
>
> Many, many people have made the same observation. Some of them
> here. This is one example:
>
>
>
> > Path: news.edisontel.com!nntp.eutelia.it!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!postnews.google.com!k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> > Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> > Subject: Re: Clearwater Cultist Business Owners Don't Believe in
> > Constitutional Rights
> > Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 18:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
> > Organization:http://groups.google.com
> > Lines: 41
> > References: <d105d3ef-55a8-4404-8f36-88dba7802...@q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
> > <8d186728-997f-4ac9-a153-1dac8b6ab...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.36.247.114
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > X-Trace: posting.google.com 1210726832 12814 127.0.0.1 (14 May 2008 01:00:32 GMT)
> > NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 01:00:32 +0000 (UTC)
> > Injection-Info: k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com; posting-host=72.36.247.114;
> > posting-account=TFYoMwoAAAC8VMYC7KR3vrt1q1saa_YX
> > User-Agent: G2/1.0
> > X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_4_11; en)
> > AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Safari/525.18,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
> > Xref: treeoflife.3v8l2x.net alt.religion.scientology:38663
> C_Van wrote:
> > On May 13, 3:12=EF=BF=BDpm, redcoat1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Scary little freaks these cultists are.
>
> > > They want to take away the right to peacefully assemble.
>
> > > What a crock.
>
> > >http://forums.enturbulation.org/15-breaking-news/anonymous-stifles-cl...
>
Tom,
Scientology follows in the footsteps of another pseudoscience called
Eugenics
QUOTE
Eugenics ....
In the interest of reducing the proportion of the "less fit" in
society, eugenicists in the United States helped restrict immigration
from Eastern and Southern Europe. They promoted the passage of eugenic
sterilization laws that disproportionately threatened lower-income
groups. The laws and programs they fostered supplied a model for the
Nazis, who sterilized several hundred thousand people and, brandishing
their research into the genetics of individual and racial differences,
claimed scientific justifications for the Holocaust.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/darwin/nameof/page03.html
UNQUOTE
The worst thing which could happen is for Scientology to gain a
foothold in shaping political thinking. As far as I know the group
"Anonymous" does not propose with regard to those who disagree to
"dispose of quietly and without sorrow"?
There is nothing to misunderstand about this portion of the
Scientology manifesto.
Scientology does not just call for the death of millions of people, it
is out to eliminate billions.
If you replaced Eugenics with Scientology, then the holocaust would
still have occurred. Hitler could claim a similar "Scientific"
justification with regard to Scientology as he actually did with
regard to Eugenics for eliminating sectors of the population. The same
cannot be said of the members of "Anonymous".
"Anonymous" is also different inasmuch as they are calling for the
elimination of Scientology, and not of individual Scientologists. Most
Scientologists probably don't even know what they are signing up for,
and I'm pretty certain that they would reconsider their membership if
it was "clear" to them exactly what kind of potential pogrom they were
unwittingly supporting.
Astrid...@yahoo.com
> I invoke Godwin's Law
I revoke Godwin's Law. "Those who cannot remember the past, are
condemned to repeat it." (Santayana)
Scientology has enough in common with Nazism, especially before
Hitler’s rise to power, but after it too, that they need to be watched
carefully, so another catastrophe doesn't happen. Hitler would not
have risen to power, if more people inside and outside of Germany had
taken him more seriously.
After he attempted a coup of the government in the Beer Hall Putsch
(1923), and ended up in jail, there simply weren’t enough people who
considered Hitler anything other than a rabble-rouser.
After forcing President Hindenburg into appointing Hitler as
Chancellor, at a key time in Hitler’s political rise, journalists and
newspaper editors within Germany were roughed up and intimidated by
Hitler’s thugs in the SA., if they wrote any negative articles about
the Nazis.
Before 1933, when Hitler took power, too many bright people thought
Hitler was a character who couldn’t possibly ascend to power. The few
who went to hear him speak in the beer hall, sometimes thought
differently. They saw his amazing rhetorical gift and the effect he
had on an audience. They tried to warn others, but….
The comparisons are worth making, in spite of the differences. I feel
the main reason Hitler was able to seize power was that Germany was
ripe, actually yearning, for a person like Hitler, a dictator who
promised to restore Germany after economic devastation of the Great
Depression, but also restore national pride after the humiliation of
losing WWI and the harsh terms of the Versailles Treaty.
Scientology isn’t about to take over any country in the world, let
alone the U.S., at this time. They don’t even have a firm grip on the
government of Clearwater. However, Scientology has one large
advantage over the early Nazi party; considerable wealth.
Their big disadvantage is uncontrolled exposure of their scam via the
web. If Germans in the few years before Hitler came to power, had
access to Joachim Fest’s bio, HITLER (which wasn't written until
decades later), just the chapters about his youth and up until his
service in WWI, they may not have allowed that deluded loner to be dog
catcher, let alone let him lead the country. In my imagination, I keep
letting Hitler into the Art Academy in Vienna.
Word is out on Hubbard AND Scientology, via Bare-Faced Messiah and
dozens of other books, documents, personal testimonies, and articles.
It is not like people are going to make Hubbard and Scientology just
what they'd like it to be in their imagination, as they did with
Hitler.
I found the pictures chilling too, the first time I saw them a few
weeks ago. Miscavige’s gold-painted styrofoam sets take on a similar
symmetry and placement of symbols as the Nazis, but it also remind me
of Disney or Academy Award glitz.
The bottom line is both organizations have/had the ultimate goal of
world domination by taking over, or becoming the ones in charge. It’s
a bit over-the-top to even think that a pseudo-religion scam like
Scientology could take over government, but it was even more
incredible that Hitler took over a country like yer’n, and then
started doing what he did. So, we gotta watch those Scilons.
Out_Of_The_Dark
Excellent post.
Nec_V20
astrid,
America over the past eight years should be your guide. The lesson to
be learned is, "Beware the simple narrative".
I take it that you are not German, so some really enlightening facts
will escape your notice. That's not your fault, but when you
retrospectively declare, "It is obvious that ...", it might be an idea
to go beyond what makes sense to you as an outsider.
First of all, and let's be clear on this, the main driving force
behind Hitler and his agenda came from America. The means and methods
to implement this agenda came from America. End of story.
Or is it?
To this day Germans learn two languages. Their own dialect, and
"Hochdeutsch". To this day, for Germans, and I am German so I think I
can be granted a small insight into this, are from their region first,
and "Germany" is a pretty remote second.
If you got a number of Germans from around the country together and
they were to talk to each other in their own dialects then they would
not understand each other.
This is true even within the regions. I come from the Westerwald,
specifically the Oberwesterwald as opposed to the Unterwesterwald.
Even in the Oberwesterwald, if I go to a township just 10 kilometers
away, they have a different language - not a different dialect, but
literally a different language! We are only talking about six miles
here.
Now you could say that this is true of English, but as you may have
noticed, my English is not exactly "For beginners". I have more chance
of understanding an interview with a black guy from Harlem speaking in
his jive, than I do understanding a German when he/she reverts to
their own version of German.
What has this to do with the "simple narrative" I mentioned?
After WWI the monarchy was dissolved and "democracy" was implemented.
The Prussian "Iron Chancellor" Bismark had created a "Germany" that
didn't exist - had never existed. The concept of the "United States of
America" is actually a lot older than the concept of "Germany".
So you have a bunch of guys getting together in Weimar who cannot even
talk to each other except through the intermediary of a foreign
artificial language called "Hochdeutsh"
When I have listened to speeches by Hitler I must confess to having
difficulty understanding them. He tries to speak Hochdeutsch, but only
manages it in the high points and then descends into gibberish for the
rest of any recording I have ever heard. There again, he was Austrian.
In the land of the tone-deaf the one who bends the ear is king. That
explains more about Hitler than all your "Well it was" pat theories.
The reason for Hitler's success in "Germany" was because he was not
Prussian. He did not represent the "Kaiserreich" and thus was given a
vote of confidence that turned out to be fatal.
Hitler based his entire politics on the American "theory" of Eugenics.
He pointed with pride to the fact that what he was saying had been
"proven" and successfully implemented in the US since 1900. Even at
the Nürnberg trials the prosecutors sought to kill any reference to
Eugenics or the use of that in defence of the accused.
If not for the willing and active cooperation of IBM the holocaust
would never have happened.
With regard to Hitler it was quite literally "USA all the way" - and
the fact that he was not Prussian.
Astrid...@yahoo.com
> If not for the willing and active cooperation of IBM the holocaust
> would never have happened.
>
> With regard to Hitler it was quite literally "USA all the way" - and
> the fact that he was not Prussian.
So, IBM did it, eh? There is no doubt that corporate greed, including
IBM from America (including their branches in Europe), played a role
in making the Holocaust more efficient. However, the Einsatzgruppen
didn't take punch card machines along with their rifles, to slaughter
groups of Jews in Eastern Europe.
The influence corporations have in U.S. Government and world affairs
is still mind boggling.
And you want to talk about simplistic...while Hitler may have gotten
some of his racial theories from reading about eugenics, as written
about by Americans, to blame Hitler's behavior and policies on America
because of that is ridiculous. Why not blame it on Darwin? Or blame
Hitler's race policies on Wagner or Norse mythology. These were
elements, certainly, but initially he was picking up antisemitism that
was floating around at the time, from people he met. Again, the Fest
bio HITLER details that nicely.
This idea that the Holocaust never would have happened without IBM is
strictly in the mind of the author of that one book, about IBM, and
for you apparently. There are hundreds of books, with a core of maybe
100, that one needs to read to get a good overall picture of this
period. I've read many, but it was many years ago and I've forgotten a
lot of it. In University, I changed my field of graduate study away
from German history. For one thing, it was very depressing. For
another thing, I had an interest in an entirely different field.
You suggested I wrote "pat theory," which is an oxymoron. I simplified
it, agreed, not with an attempt to 'splain the Holocaust, but with the
idea that the comparison with Scientology deserves scrutiny, for the
many things that are similar, such as the harassment and attempts to
control journalists, for example. Or, Hitler's way of dealing with
critics.
You can put the blame of Scientology squarely on Hubbard and America
if you wish. I certainly do. And if you want to blame WWII and Hitler
on the USA, that's fine too, but over-the-top.
I'm very pleased with Germany standing up to Scientology, the way it
has.
Yes, your English is excellent. Congratulations.
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> On Jun 24, 11:43 pm, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> You suggested I wrote "pat theory," which is an oxymoron. I simplified
> it, agreed, not with an attempt to 'splain the Holocaust, but with the
> idea that the comparison with Scientology deserves scrutiny, for the
> many things that are similar, such as the harassment and attempts to
> control journalists, for example. Or, Hitler's way of dealing with
> critics.
>
Hitler's way of dealing with critics is explained in Joost Meerloo's
Rape of the MIND
here is ONE example that precisely paralell.s Hubbard's diseased mind
Verbocracy and Semantic Fog -- Talking the People into Submission
After the First World War, we became more conscious of our attitude
toward words. This attitude was gradually changing. Our trust in
official catchwords and cliches and in idealistic labels had
diminished. We became more and more aware of the fact that the
important questions were what groups and powers stood behind the
words, and what their secret intentions were. But in our easygoing way
we often forget to ask this question, and we are all more or less
susceptible to noisy, oft-repeated words.
The formulation of big propagandistic lies and fraudulent catchwords
has a very well-defined purpose in Totalitaria, and words themselves
have acquired a special function in the service of power, which we may
call verbocracy. The Big Lie and the phoney slogan at first confuse
and then dull the hearers, making them willing to accept every
suggested myth of happiness. The task of the totalitarian propagandist
is to build special pictures in the minds of the citizenry so that
finally they will no longer see and hear with their own eyes and ears
but will look at the world through the fog of official catchwords and
will develop the automatic responses appropriate to totalitarian
mythology.
The multiform use of words in DOUBLE TALK serves as an attack on our
logic, that is, an attack on our understanding of what monolithic
dictatorship really is. Hear, hear the nonsense: "Peace is war and war
is peace! Democracy is tyranny and freedom is slavery. Ignorance is
strength! Virtue is vice and truth is a lie." So says the Ministry of
Truth in George Orwell's grim novel, "1984." And we saw this nightmare
fantasy come true when our soldiers who had spent long years in North
Korean prison camps returned home talking of totalitarian China with
the deceiving cliche of "the people's democracy." Pavlovian
conditioning to special words forces people into an AUTOMATIC THINKING
that is tied to those words. The words we use influence our behavior
in daily life; they determine the thoughts we have.
In Totalitaria, facts are replaced by fantasy and distortion. People
are taught systematically and intentionally to lie (Winokur). History
is reconstructed, new myths are built up whose purpose is twofold: to
strengthen and flatter the totalitarian leader, and to confuse the
luckless citizens of the country. The whole vocabulary is a dictated
set of slowly hypnotizing slogans. In the semantic fog that permeates
the atmosphere, words lose their direct communicative function. They
become mrerely commanding signs, triggering off reactions of fear and
terror. They are battles cries and Pavlovian signals, and no longer
represent free thinking. THE WORD, ONCE CONSIDERED A FIRST TOKEN OF
FREE HUMAN CREATION, IS TRANSFORMED INTO A MECHANICAL TOOL. In
Totalitaria, words may have a seductive action, soothing or charming
their hearers, but they are not allowed to have intrinsic meaning.
They are conditioners, emotional triggers, serving to imprint the
desired reaction patterns on their hearers.
Man's mental laziness, his resistance to the hard labor of thinking,
makes it relatively easy for Totalitaria's dictator to bring his
subjects into acceptance of the Big Lie. At first the citizen may say
to himself, "All this is just nonsense -- pure double talk," but in
the very act of trying to shrug it off, he has become subject to the
power of the inherent suggestion. That is the trick of double talk;
once a man neglects to analyze and verify it, he becomes lost in it
and can no longer see the difference between rationale and
rationalization. In the end, he can no longer believe anything, and he
retreats into sullen dullness. Once the citizen of Totalitaria has
accepted the "logic" of his leaders, he is no longer open to
discussion or argument. Alas, in our Western world, we often meet this
evasion of semantic clarity. Let us not forget that the battle for
words is part of the ideological cold war in our world.
Something has crept into our mechanized system of communication that
has made our modes of thinking deteriorate. People too casually
acquire ideas and concepts. They no longer struggle for a clear
understanding. The popularized picture replaces the battle of the pros
and cons of concepts. Instead of aiming at true understanding, people
listen to thoughtless repetition, which gives them THE DELUSION OF
UNDERSTANDING.
Communication has an even more infantile, magic character for the
citizen of Totalitaria. Words no longer represent intelligible
meanings or ideas. They bind the citizen of Totalitaria to utter
dependence on his commander, much as the infant is bound to the word
pictures of his parents.
--------------------------------
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/mc-ch7.html
THE RAPE OF THE MIND: The Psychology of Thought Control, Menticide,
and Brainwashing, by Joost A. M. Meerloo, M.D., Instructor in
Psychiatry, Columbia University Lecturer in Social Psychology, New
School for Social Research, Former Chief, Psychological Department,
Netherlands Forces, published in 1956, World Publishing Company. (Out
of Print)
Nec_V20
Astrid,
I'm sure that you will concede that the Washington Post cannot be
accused of having an anti-US bias, so let's see what they wrote:
QUOTE
Washington Post
IBM Technology Aided Holocaust, Author Alleges
By Michael Dobbs, Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 11, 2001; Page A22
"IBM technology put the blitz into the blitzkrieg and the fantastical
numbers into the Holocaust," argued Edwin Black, a former journalist
and son of Holocaust survivors who spent three years studying IBM's
involvement in Nazi Germany for his book, "IBM and the Holocaust."
"The Holocaust would have occurred with or without IBM -- but the
Holocaust that we know of, the Holocaust of the fantastic numbers,
this is the Holocaust of IBM technology. It enabled the Nazis to
achieve scale, velocity, efficiency."
UNQUOTE
Also from the same article:
QUOTE
"In June 1937, Thomas J. Watson, founder of 'International Business
Machines Corp.', accepted an honor that would come to haunt him, a
medal created by Adolf Hitler for foreign citizens "who made
themselves deserving of the German Reich." Embedded with swastikas
and eagles, the medal was dramatic confirmation of IBM's contribution
to the automation of Nazi Germany.
At the time, Germany was second only to the United States as IBM's
best customer. Historians have since documented how IBM punch-card
technology, the precursor to the computer, did everything from helping
to make German trains run on time to facilitating Hitler's rearmament
program to tabulating the census data that were an important element
in the Nazi leader's murderous racial politics.
UNQUOTE
The entire article can be found here:
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/about/IBMholocaust.html
With regard to the American pseudoscience Eugenics and its fundamental
impact on shaping the policies which would result in the Holocaust;
QUOTE
During the '20s, Carnegie Institution eugenic scientists cultivated
deep personal and professional relationships with Germany's fascist
eugenicists. In Mein Kampf, published in 1924, Hitler quoted American
eugenic ideology and openly displayed a thorough knowledge of American
eugenics. "There is today one state," wrote Hitler, "in which at least
weak beginnings toward a better conception [of immigration] are
noticeable. Of course, it is not our model German Republic, but the
United States."
Hitler proudly told his comrades just how closely he followed the
progress of the American eugenics movement. "I have studied with great
interest," he told a fellow Nazi, "the laws of several American states
concerning prevention of reproduction by people whose progeny would,
in all probability, be of no value or be injurious to the racial
stock."
Hitler even wrote a fan letter to American eugenic leader Madison
Grant calling his race-based eugenics book, The Passing of the Great
Race his "bible."
UNQUOTE
The entire article can be found here:
http://hnn.us/articles/1796.html
Then of course we have Prescott Bush's (Dubya's grandfather) very
prominent role in bankrolling the Hitler regime.
QUOTE
George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a
director and shareholder of companies that profited from their
involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in
the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a
director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.
UNQUOTE
The entire article can be found here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
Scientology bears within it the potential for causing just as much
horror as Eugenics, if it were used by a political entity to justify
the elimination of a large portion of its population.
This is why I have always concentrated on the socio-political aspect
of Scientology,
This is why I criticise the comparison between Scientology and the
Nazi regime, but point out instead the comparison between it and
Eugenics, which was the basis for the policies of the Nazi regime.
Tom Newton
<eca9b812-6d9e-4561...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.co
m> Nec_V20 <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 25, 4:00 pm, Astrid7777...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> On Jun 24, 11:43 pm, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
<snip>
What a strange article. The German government is harassing the
hell out of the Church of Scientology. You can claim that the
Nazis are gone, but persecuting religious minorities is one of
their hallmarks, and the world still won't allow Germany to
have a real military or nuclear weaopons. And keeps very large
military bases in Germany which are really occuaptional forces.
Our leaders know the Nazis haven't disappeared.
If the Scientologists were like them, then they'd use them,
not attack them.
Eugenics finds its modern manifestation in Planned Parenthood,
not Scientology. Liberal elitists who regard Scientology with
contempt.
Nec_V20
> On 2008-06-26, in
> <eca9b812-6d9e-4561-9aa4-c0096f252...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.co
Tom,
you really want to get your facts straight.
Every single point you brought up is wrong, and it wouldn't take you
five minutes to fact-check. So you are either incredibly stupid, or
deliberately lying. There is no third alternative.
If the German government wanted to they could shut down the major
operations of Scientology immediately. Technically under German law,
auditing is illegal. So Scientology can count itself lucky. Also if
they keep on going the way they have, then their centre in Berlin will
be shut down, because according to the Stern report, Scientology is
again breaking the law with regard to not paying the minimum wage to
its workers.
Astrid...@yahoo.com
>
> This is why I criticise the comparison between Scientology and the
> Nazi regime, but point out instead the comparison between it and
> Eugenics, which was the basis for the policies of the Nazi regime.
First of all, the IBM book sounds like an interesting and important
book, and I'm going to read it. The Washington Post article merely
quotes the book! It is not endorsing all the claims and conclusions of
the author as being true. And in fact, that article is very well
balanced in quoting authorities in tempering and refuting some of this
author's claims. You are starting to get into the non sequitur
Scientological/Pignotti area of reasoning, and this is my last post in
response to you on this topic.
Hitler's interest in eugenics, reading about it as it was advanced in
the U.S., is well documented, and integral to understanding how he
formulated policies in relation to anti-Semitism. To blame WWII and
Hitler's policies, choices and behavior on the U.S., because he got
some of his ideas from one movement here, is a huge leap.
In the U.S. we have a problem with White Racist groups, most who lap
up Hitler's writings and rantings directly,and even use the symbols.
We recognize that influence, but no one is BLAMING Hitler or Germany
for this problem. Instead, we see it as totally home grown, no matter
where they get their ideas.
I do not advocate an opinion that Scientology = Nazi. They have many
similarities and many differences. They deserve comparison, to see
what we can LEARN, both from the differences and the similarities.
I realize how popular Holocaust revisionism is in Germany. Third
generation Germans are sick of carrying guilt of their grandfather's
behavior. They are sick of being associated with Hitler, what he did,
and being blamed by Americans, the French or whomever. Get over it. I
don't know anyone who is blaming today's generation in Germany for the
sins of their grandfather's.
Moreover, I'm impressed by the majority of young Germans and
Austrians, who are interested in studying this history, because for
years the policy was to ignore it and try to forget it. Parents who
served in the military during that time, didn't even discuss with
their children what they did in the war. It wasn't taught in school in
any depth. That has changed.
And then there's this huge love/hate relationship Germany, France and
other countries have with the U.S. The young people eat up the pop
culture here, sing the music, learn the language. But, they hate it
too.
Considering the actions of Bush, and all the reasons there are to
blame and hate him, I'm sure it has become more popular than ever,
finding ways to blame all bad things on the U.S.
Hitler? He was America's fault! All those "good Germans" that went
along with Hitler? America's fault! They were being manipulated and
orchestrated by IBM. This is such a shallow, narrow view, and a huge
leap to make.
Fall of the Roman Empire? It was the Americans. They went back in a
time capsule and destabilized their culture, with thought implants.
I'm simply not into the Hubbard school of reasoning. I'm into a
balanced look at things, drawing back as far as possible, to see it
from all sides. I like to get silly once in a while, because
Scientology is silly. However, there are elements of it that are very
serious, too. One of those elements is that it could gain increasing
acceptance and power, that they would start disposing of critics.
That they have billions of dollars, and envision a world with no
critics, is enough. That is only one of the dozens of things that is
bad about Scientology.
Nec_V20
Arnie,
what you are describing is the USA in the life and times of the Bush
Administration.
As you so often do, you just cut&paste something in no matter how
tangential or inappropriate. What you posted above has nothing
whatsoever to do with my post, and you are channeling Tom Newton.more
than anything else.
Tom Newton
<ce5fde85-24cb-471d...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
> Nec_V20 <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
No. It is you who are wrong.
You are a perfect example of the survival of the philosophy of
the Nazis, as is 'Anonymous' in general.
>
> If the German government wanted to they could shut down the major
> operations of Scientology immediately.
"If they wanted to" being the operative phrase here. There are obviously
different factions in their government.
> Technically under German law, auditing is illegal.
I don't believe that.
> So Scientology can count itself lucky.
Just as the surviving Jews can.
> Also if they keep on going the way they have, then their centre
> in Berlin will be shut down, because according to the Stern
> report, Scientology is again breaking the law with regard to
> not paying the minimum wage to its workers.
Do you mean failing to pay them minimum wage like the agriculural
workers of America are not paid minimum wages?
I don't know about Germany, but I'd guess that agriculural workers
there are not paid minimum wages either.
Once again we see the double standard employed by anti-Scientology
fanatics: If Scientology does it, it is a crime, if anyone else does
it, is A-OK.
I'd like to see some proof of their failure to pay minimum wages.
I don't trust you.
And you aren't going to bully me into accepting your ugly hate
propaganda.
Provide proof or shove your ugly propaganda up the orifice you
post from.
Nec_V20
Astrid,
QUOTE
Get over it. I don't know anyone who is blaming today's generation in
Germany for the sins of their grandfather's.
UNQUOTE
You obviously missed the full page adverts that Scientology put into
the major newspapers about modern day Germany. You obviously have not
followed what Scientology says about Germany to this day. They never
cease to speak about Germany today in terms of the most abominable
period of our past.
The latest lunacy that the US is trying to export to Europe in general
and Germany in particular is Creationism (aka "Intelligent design" or
"Teach the Controversy"). In Germany they will not get this shit into
the Science classroom and you can bet your ass they will also compare
the negative reaction to "the German heritage" which to most Americans
seems to consist almost entirely of 1933-45.
Eugenics, Scientology, Creationism they all have one thing in common.
They cannot stand on their own merit and their only recourse is to
ignore the scientific method and gain "recognition" through political
and legal representation. All three claim to be Scientific, and the
product of the deductive process, except when it actually comes to
applying scientific rigour to their claims.
When they are criticised and shown to be nothing but the product of
inductive a priori argumentation from false premises they then retreat
to the sledgehammer of political misrepresentation and the courtrooms
to vindicate their arguments.
Eugenics is a bit of an exception, because it was actually viewed as a
science. And the way that Sir Francis Galton (half-cousin of Charles
Darwin) originally proposed it, there was - and is - a lot of merit to
it.
For example if you want to breed for longevity, then getting a male
and a female together where not only their grandparents but also their
great grandparents on both sides of their respective families are
still alive would be a pretty good place to start. The offspring might
be as dumb as a doorpost, but their chances of living out their
stupidity to a ripe old age will probably be greater.
Under Galton's proposal the traits should be identified and then
selectively bred.
The perversion that Eugenics in America undertook was to not only
suggest but to actively politically and legislatively lobby for was
the elimination of those they had defined as unworthy of either life
or progeny.
It turned the original proposition of Galton on its head.
That pervasion was adopted as "fact" by Hitler in the 1920's and then
put into practice when he gained power. He could point to "established
findings" in the USA to bolster his arguments, and because it was
"scientific" he could inflame the exact bias he wanted to benefit from.
Nec_V20
QUOTE
You are a perfect example of the survival of the philosophy of
the Nazis
UNQUOTE
No I am here unlike all except one of the progeny of my grandfather's
two brothers - one son who survived because of blind luck and my
grandfathers sister.
I am German and we - my family - are from the house of Jacob (aka
house of Israel).
My grandfather - and thus myself by extension survived because he was
a "techie" in his own time, and they needed him alive more than they
wanted him dead. His sister survived because she had married well and
although her husband was not in the "party" he was well enough
regarded that his wife was taboo.
The other two siblings didn't have anything going for them and their
branch of the family went to Buchenwald and Sachsenhausen.
So do we really have any other narrative you wish to pursue with
regard to each other and Germany Tom?
Tom Newton
<e92f7069-2322-4022...@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com
> Nec_V20 <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> QUOTE You are a perfect example of the survival of the
> philosophy of the Nazis UNQUOTE
>
> No I am here unlike all except one of the progeny of my
> grandfather's two brothers - one son who survived because of
> blind luck and my grandfathers sister.
>
> I am German and we - my family - are from the house of Jacob
> (aka house of Israel).
Ah yes. That country in the Middle East that was started by
American and European Jews and their hired mercenaries in 1948
who drove eight hundred thousands poor Palestinians from their
homes in order to steal their land and water supplies.
Poor Palestinians who have been living in refugee camps
in southern Lebanon for the last 60 years.
Those wonderful Israelis who kill 300 Palestians for every
Jew who dies when the Palestinians try to take back the lands
that were stolen from them.
>
> My grandfather - and thus myself by extension survived because
> he was a "techie" in his own time, and they needed him alive
> more than they wanted him dead. His sister survived because
> she had married well and although her husband was not in the
> "party" he was well enough regarded that his wife was taboo.
>
> The other two siblings didn't have anything going for them
> and their branch of the family went to Buchenwald and
> Sachsenhausen.
>
> So do we really have any other narrative you wish to pursue
> with regard to each other and Germany Tom?
Nope. I can't think of anyone in the world more like the Nazis
than the Israelis are.
Thank you.
Tom
>
> Tom Newton wrote:
>
>> On 2008-06-26, in
>> <ce5fde85-24cb-471d...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.
>> com
>>
>> > Nec_V20 <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Jun 26, 10:28?am, Tom Newton <t...@server.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2008-06-26, in
>> >> <eca9b812-6d9e-4561-9aa4-c0096f252...@l42g2000hsc.googlegro
>> >> ups.co
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> m> Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Jun 25, 4:00?pm, Astrid7777...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> On Jun 24, 11:43?pm, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com>
Jonnie Tyler
news:5jhdj5x...@treeoflife.3v8l2x.net...
> On 2008-06-26, in
> Nope. I can't think of anyone in the world more like the Nazis
> than the Israelis are.
That's quite insulting, and not even directly relevant to the point Nec_20
has been making.
Tom Newton
<d8V8k.203044$Gv.8...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com> Jonnie Tyler
<Barry...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> "Tom Newton" <t...@server.invalid> wrote in message
> news:5jhdj5x...@treeoflife.3v8l2x.net...
>
>> On 2008-06-26, in
>
>> Nope. I can't think of anyone in the world more like the Nazis
>> than the Israelis are.
>
> That's quite insulting,
If the truth is insulting, it isn't the person who uttered it who
has a problem, is it?
> and not even directly relevant to the point Nec_20 has been
> making.
I know what her point is: To convince people that Church of Scientology
is Evil, when it isn't any worse than any other church of the same size.
Just like the KKK tried to conince the world that Blacks were
Evil subhumans.
I have my own points to make and no ugly, lying bigot decides what they are.
That includes you.
Jonnie Tyler
> On 2008-06-26, in
> <d8V8k.203044$Gv.8...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com> Jonnie Tyler
> <Barry...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "Tom Newton" <t...@server.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:5jhdj5x...@treeoflife.3v8l2x.net...
>>
>>> On 2008-06-26, in
>>
>>> Nope. I can't think of anyone in the world more like the Nazis
>>> than the Israelis are.
>>
>> That's quite insulting,
>
> If the truth is insulting, it isn't the person who uttered it who
> has a problem, is it?
>
>> and not even directly relevant to the point Nec_20 has been
>> making.
>
> I know what her point is:
Is Nec_20 a she? Until now I assumed it was an he.
> To convince people that Church of Scientology
> is Evil, when it isn't any worse than any other church of the same size.
That's not what I read in this post specifically. He/she merely pointed
his/her background. I thought it was an interesting aspect relevant to the
topic of this thread. Jumping from there to a remotely related topic, not
even acknowledging his/her self outing was not very nice, not speaking of
the fact that accusing Israel to be like Nazis is a pretty far-fetched and
quite provocative statement. And not speaking of the fact that not all Jews
automatically approve of Israel's sometimes heavy-handed tactics, so that's
another assumption you are making there.
> Just like the KKK tried to conince the world that Blacks were
> Evil subhumans.
>
> I have my own points to make and no ugly, lying bigot decides what they
> are.
>
> That includes you.
I am pointing to the nastiness of such a statement, and also to the fact
that it isn't directly relevant to the topic of this thread. I don't want to
decide what your points are. I merely express my opinion about what you
said. If you reflect back on your statement you may see that I may be right.
Tom Newton
<MOV8k.77738$dq6....@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com> Jonnie Tyler
<Barry...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> "Tom Newton" <t...@server.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ljkdj5x...@treeoflife.3v8l2x.net...
>> On 2008-06-26, in
>> <d8V8k.203044$Gv.8...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com> Jonnie Tyler
>> <Barry...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> "Tom Newton" <t...@server.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:5jhdj5x...@treeoflife.3v8l2x.net...
>>>
>>>> On 2008-06-26, in
>>>
>>>> Nope. I can't think of anyone in the world more like the Nazis
>>>> than the Israelis are.
>>>
>>> That's quite insulting,
>>
>> If the truth is insulting, it isn't the person who uttered it who
>> has a problem, is it?
>>
>>> and not even directly relevant to the point Nec_20 has been
>>> making.
>>
>> I know what her point is:
<snip>
>
>> To convince people that Church of Scientology
>> is Evil, when it isn't any worse than any other church of the same size.
<snip>
Not one relevant sentence in his response.
He's either stupid or is trying to change the subject.
My concern with Nec_20 is with her hate speech regarding
the Church of Scientology.
Making accusations that she has no real evidence to support, which
is the rule with 'Anonymous'.
'Anonymous' is engaged in a propaganda campaign very much like the one
the Nazis carried out against the Jews before WWII.
peters...@gmail.com
> Blablabla.
Title fix.
Nec_V20
wrote:
Jonnie,
he actually proves my point with regard to what I was saying about
comparisons to the Nazi regime having been done to death.
The very fact that you are merely annoyed and not outraged is an
indicator of this.
His post is doubly meaningless, because I was talking about my family
history and not myself and the fact that the events relating to my
family happened over a decade before the British Mandate for Palestine
became Israel.
Nec_V20
wrote:
> "Tom Newton" <t...@server.invalid> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
> > On 2008-06-26, in
> > <d8V8k.203044$Gv.80...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com> Jonnie Tyler
Jonnie,
according to Tom everything is worse than the Nazis, so one has to
ask, what is the worser of his worse than the Nazis?
And how do his list of worsers interact? Where is the hierarchy of
worseness and how is it defined?
What aspect makes one of his worsers worse than the others?
The gender ploy has also been pretty much flogged to death. Tom knows
exactly what gender I am.
Nec_V20
> On 2008-06-26, in
>
>
>
>
>
> <BarryPep...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > "Tom Newton" <t...@server.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:ljkdj5x...@treeoflife.3v8l2x.net...
> >> On 2008-06-26, in
Tom,
instead of refuting my posts you have actually proven the efficacy of
original post.
Astrid...@yahoo.com
I'm sorry. Let me amend my earlier comment to "No one in their RIGHT
MIND, is going to blame contemporary German people for the behavior of
their fathers." Those ads by Scientology must be very alarming to
German people and make them furious at the U.S. Our government needs
to pay more attention to this, because such lunacy from a group that
originated in the U.S. can erode relations between the two countries,
further.
For Scientology, such ads in German papers, are ultimately a huge foot
bullet.
May I ask, what kind of Germans are signing up for Scientology courses
at this point?
The small bright side of this is that it has created a dialog in
German society, for them to think about the aspects of this.
Scientology has THRIVED on secrecy. When it comes out with ads like
this in Germany, it is blowing its cover.
I don't think the creationists will make the leap that Scientologists
have. They will note the backlash that Scientology is experiencing in
Germany by playing that card.
Assuming Obama becomes president, there is going to be a shift in the
wind, in some of these issues. Obama talks a lot about the need for
more scientists and engineers here. Creationism and Scientology both
fall in the category of being contrary to this.
Would you say that a much higher percentage of Germans are aware of
Scientology, than Americans? I would imagine this would have to be
true. Probably ten times as much awareness there.
I've only been reading about Scientology for about 6 weeks. I read a
lengthy statement by the German government, but yes, I need to look at
more of those ads. I did a quick search and found one.
Scientology is playing the anti-religious card, which is predicated on
the idea that the majority of people know little to nothing about
Scientology, which is true here still. That they "assume" it is a
religion, which is preposterous, because there no religion to it,
except for tax purposes.
Here, only the surface of Scientology has been scratched, by Tom
Cruise saying things, and by Anonymous. In Germany, this must be a
whole different story, an issue that is ten times as big to the
average German, and I see why.
That is what we need to happen here! After what Scientology did in
Germany with the ads, there is no explaining that away, or minimizing
it. It was not a "misunderstanding."
Do you know what I mean? We need Tom Cruise to start talking about
psychiatry being the root of all evil, instead of the surface issue of
keeping children off Ritalin.
Maybe someone will do a documentary about Scientology, Cruise, the
issues in Germany about Scientology, and also tying it into Cruise's
making of Valkyrie. If well done, that could be more popular than the
film itself.
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> On Jun 26, 2:29 pm, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com>
>
> Here, only the surface of Scientology has been scratched, by Tom
> Cruise saying things, and by Anonymous. In Germany, this must be a
> whole different story, an issue that is ten times as big to the
> average German, and I see why.
>
> That is what we need to happen here! After what Scientology did in
> Germany with the ads, there is no explaining that away, or minimizing
> it. It was not a "misunderstanding."
>
> Do you know what I mean? We need Tom Cruise to start talking about
> psychiatry being the root of all evil, instead of the surface issue of
> keeping children off Ritalin.
>
> Maybe someone will do a documentary about Scientology, Cruise, the
> issues in Germany about Scientology, and also tying it into Cruise's
> making of Valkyrie. If well done, that could be more popular than the
> film itself.
Astrid..
This is Lermanet's Valkyrie page, if you need more ammo, this page and
the links will keep your bomb bays loaded...
http://lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/valkyrie-and-scientology.htm
That advertisement by Scientology was deceitful, the only yardstick I
use to determine who I let get close to me, and who I invite into my
home, is whether they lie, or use DECEIT.
It doesn't matter how they smell, or who dislikes them, or what AIPAC
said about them,
it is whether or not they lie, whether they engage in deceitful
tactics...
If you use this measure you wont go wrong.
We have page that tries to focus on these issues about Valkyrie - the
ultimate deceit... of having a man emulating Goebbels, in the present
play the part of a man who tried to assassinate hitler.
Even the son of that man, was outraged that the neo-nazis would dare
try to foist tom cruise off as his own dad..
I believe scientology pushed tom to that part to try to play the
opposite of what scientology actually was...
tis amazing what a few can accomplish if they dont let the hyenas
tear them or their friends apart.
http://lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/valkyrie-and-scientology.htm
Tom Cruise is the Goebbels, of the Scientology Third Reich
Justice Latey said that the tactics used by Hubbard and his
helpers are "grimly reminiscent of the ranting and bullying of "Hitler
and his henchmen."
The German Protestant Church compared the Hollywood film star Tom
Cruise to the Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels. Mr Gandow
added, in a reference to the favourable publicity won by Hitler's Nazi
party during the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games: "This film will have the
same propaganda advantages for Scientology as the 1936 Olympics had
for the Nazis."
Antje Blumenthal, a conservative MP and Scientology critic, said:
"Unlike the Nazi propaganda minister, Tom Cruise has the sympathy of
the public. As a Scientology ambassador he uses his popularity very
cleverly in the interests of the totalitarian sect."
"Tom Cruise is planning to make a film about the 1944 bomb plot
against Hitler, playing leading conspirator Claus von Stauffenberg.
Stauffenberg's son is not impressed, and has told Cruise to "keep his
hands off my father." Spiegel Online International, 22 June, 2007
-----------------
And in this article in Stern Magazine
http://www.lermanet.com/tom-cruise-goebbels.htm
"Respected German historian Guido Knopp has compared a speech by US
actor Tom Cruise to the Church of Scientology with a call to war by
Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels.
Knopp, an expert on World War II history, said in an interview with
Bild newspaper: "Tom Cruise's manner calls to mind Goebbels." Article
continues
--------------------
NecV20 you remind me of a line by Bob Dylan, in song called the ballad
of Hattie Carroll
"And those, whose, philosophize deceit...."
And of Joost Meerloo
"People with too many arguments should always be approached with
suspicion. Dialectic and endless reasoning are usually used as
resistance against disagreeable truths."
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/mass-delusion-meerloo.htm
Dr Joost Meerloo was detained by the Nazis and wrote about it so we
would learn his lessons without having to relive it.
Tom Newton
<d5ba91c7-70e8-4f2b...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.co
m> Nec_V20 <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Typical bullshit from an 'Anonymous' hate monger: They repeat the
same garbage, over and over, in an attempt to bully people into
seeing the world through their hate-distorted eyes.
They are incredibly inept propagandists because they are lazy
cowards who don't do anything but hide behind the internet and
masks and run their vicious punk mouths.
Nec_V20
Astrid,
QUOTE
May I ask, what kind of Germans are signing up for Scientology courses
at this point?
UNQUOTE
In all fairness I couldn't answer that. They are however few in
number.
Quite possibly for some people it is just to see what all the fuss is
about.
Germany is a very secular society and the religious hammer cannot be
wielded as it can in the US. For instance in Germany someone like Fred
Phelps would swiftly find himself in jail if he tried the antics which
he gets away with in the US.
In Germany freedom of religion means that although you are free to
pray on your knees, you are not entitled to prey on your neighbours.
If you are interested in why the German government has such a
jaundiced eye towards Scientology, do a Google search on "Operation
Snow White".
QUOTE
I don't think the creationists will make the leap that Scientologists
have. They will note the backlash that Scientology is experiencing in
Germany by playing that card.
UNQUOTE
As soon as the attempt is made to introduce Creationism (aka
"Intelligent Design" or as they now describe it "Teach the
controversy" although no controversy exists) into the science
curriculum it will be taken to court. The creationists will lose, and
when it has reached the level of ONE "Oberlandesgericht" (German State
Supreme Court) and they lose, then unlike America, that court's ruling
is binding for all of Germany.
It can be fought in the "Verfassungsgericht" which is the German
equivalent of SCOTUS and when they lose there then it is game over.
You can talk creationism anywhere you want to in Germany except in the
science class.
Nec_V20
> On 2008-06-27, in
> <d5ba91c7-70e8-4f2b-83e4-b72223f6d...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.co
Tom,
as a ploy to discredit Scientology your posts are very effective.
Someone used it a few years ago and basically hammered home the
incoherent and insane Scienoborg stance ad absurdum.
You must be doing the same thing otherwise you have no saving grace
and no redeeming vice.
Tom Newton
<1cde9806-75d1-4cf8...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.co
m> Nec_V20 <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 27, 11:08 pm, Tom Newton <t...@server.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2008-06-27, in
>> <d5ba91c7-70e8-4f2b-83e4-b72223f6d...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.co
>>
>> m> Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Tom,
>
> as a ploy to discredit Scientology your posts are very effective.
>
> Someone used it a few years ago and basically hammered home the
> incoherent and insane Scienoborg stance ad absurdum.
>
> You must be doing the same thing otherwise you have no saving grace
> and no redeeming vice.
Yet another ad hominem attack from a stinking bigot who can't
stand to have her hate propaganda and motives and credentials
questioned.
That's how these creeps operate: You can't engage them in an
intelligent conversation.
Their idea of an intelligent conversation is to hammer you
with their lies, clothed in a hundred different costumes.
And when they fail to bully you into buying their hate
propaganda, they attack your character.
As this person clearly demonstrates, 'Anonymous' is composed
of rotten children of various chronological ages.
Nazis -- Jews
'Anonymous' -- Scientologists
KKK -- Blacks
'Anonymous' is composed of pathological liars.
That's not an exaggeration. They don't even know
what honesty and morals are.
I'm here 'Nec_V20".
If you don't like it you can sit on it and rotate.
If you think you drive me away with your childish
bitch mouth, you are as dumb as you seem to be.
You are just another cowardly bigot hiding behind
the internet and trying to stab people in the back
with your vicious gossip.
Nec_V20
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jun 27, 10:11 am, Astrid7777...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 26, 2:29 pm, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com>
>
> > Here, only the surface of Scientology has been scratched, by Tom
> > Cruise saying things, and by Anonymous. In Germany, this must be a
> > whole different story, an issue that is ten times as big to the
> > average German, and I see why.
>
> > That is what we need to happen here! After what Scientology did in
> > Germany with the ads, there is no explaining that away, or minimizing
> > it. It was not a "misunderstanding."
>
> > Do you know what I mean? We need Tom Cruise to start talking about
> > psychiatry being the root of all evil, instead of the surface issue of
> > keeping children off Ritalin.
>
> > Maybe someone will do a documentary about Scientology, Cruise, the
> > issues in Germany about Scientology, and also tying it into Cruise's
> > making of Valkyrie. If well done, that could be more popular than the
> > film itself.
>
> Astrid..
> This is Lermanet's Valkyrie page, if you need more ammo, this page and
>
> "Respected German historian Guido Knopp has compared a speech by US
> actor Tom Cruise to the Church of Scientology with a call to war by
> Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels.
>
> Knopp, an expert on World War II history, said in an interview with
> Bild newspaper: "Tom Cruise's manner calls to mind Goebbels." Article
> continues
>
> --------------------
>
> NecV20 you remind me of a line by Bob Dylan, in song called the ballad
> of Hattie Carroll
> "And those, whose, philosophize deceit...."
>
> And of Joost Meerloo
> "People with too many arguments should always be approached with
> suspicion. Dialectic and endless reasoning are usually used as
>
> Dr Joost Meerloo was detained by the Nazis and wrote about it so we
> would learn his lessons without having to relive it.
Arnie,
QUOTE
NecV20 you remind me of a line by Bob Dylan, in song called the ballad
of Hattie Carroll
"And those, whose, philosophize deceit...."
And of Joost Meerloo
"People with too many arguments should always be approached with
suspicion. Dialectic and endless reasoning are usually used as
resistance against disagreeable truths."
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/mass-delusion-meerloo.htm
Dr Joost Meerloo was detained by the Nazis and wrote about it so we
would learn his lessons without having to relive it.
UNQUOTE
you really are an ungrateful, backstabbing little piece of shit.
I made myself very unpopular in the Scientology critic community when
I stood against their persecution of you because of your involvement
with Minton.
And guess what, I don't regret it. I would do the same again, even
knowing what an ethically bankrupt person you have shown yourself to
be towards me. Why? Because it was the right thing to do.
You were being found guilty by way of association with Minton.
I said back then, that given my own background, I could not say in
good conscience that I would not have raised my hand and said "Heil
Hitler" with the rest of my fellow countrymen. With regard to Bob
Minton, I could not honestly say that I would not cave to the
defamation professionally and personally - including the threats of
spurious legal action or the threats to my family - that he was
subjected to by Scientology.
With regard to my own background I could not find it within me to
demonise Bob Minton, nor by extension you.
I publicly stood by you in your time of adversity, not because I knew
you were right and they were wrong, but because I felt it was wrong
with regard to the type of brutal criticism you were subjected to.
I talked to you privately seven years ago, because I wanted to hear
your side of the story and you came across as someone who I could
trust. What you said to me over the phone confirmed the facts I had
garnered with regard to Bob Minton and yourself as opposed to the
empty rhetoric, vilification and senseless hatred towards you that I
had seen propagated on the various fora.
What changed Arnie?
Nec_V20
> On 2008-06-27, in
Tom,
keep up the good work mate.
The more you post the the better anyone else looks by comparison.
From your last post I am now certain that it really is a charade on
your part.
Nobody can be that OTT (over the top) and seriously mean it.
Patrick Volk
wrote:
>On 2008-06-27, in
><1cde9806-75d1-4cf8...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.co
>m> Nec_V20 <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 27, 11:08 pm, Tom Newton <t...@server.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2008-06-27, in
>>> <d5ba91c7-70e8-4f2b-83e4-b72223f6d...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.co
>>>
>>> m> Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
><snip>
>> Tom,
>>
>> as a ploy to discredit Scientology your posts are very effective.
>>
>> Someone used it a few years ago and basically hammered home the
>> incoherent and insane Scienoborg stance ad absurdum.
>>
>> You must be doing the same thing otherwise you have no saving grace
>> and no redeeming vice.
>
>Yet another ad hominem attack from a stinking bigot who can't
>stand to have her hate propaganda and motives and credentials
>questioned.
>
>That's how these creeps operate: You can't engage them in an
>intelligent conversation.
But *nooooo*, that's not ad hominem *rolls eyes*....
>
>Their idea of an intelligent conversation is to hammer you
>with their lies, clothed in a hundred different costumes.
Scientology hasn't been proven not to cure cancer, huh?
I'm all for Scientology opening up the 'tech' to expose it to a trial,
all volunteers however who are appraised of the situation.
Or is that 'hate speech' heh...
>
>And when they fail to bully you into buying their hate
>propaganda, they attack your character.
>
>As this person clearly demonstrates, 'Anonymous' is composed
>of rotten children of various chronological ages.
>
>
>Nazis -- Jews
>
>'Anonymous' -- Scientologists
>
>KKK -- Blacks
Keep saying that, but unless Anon starts stringing Scientologists up
on light posts, you're high.
>
>
>'Anonymous' is composed of pathological liars.
>
>That's not an exaggeration. They don't even know
>what honesty and morals are.
And you do, huh? You're just a contrarian! Can't prove or disprove
anything... The courts are the gold standard for religion, yadda yadda
yadda,
>
>I'm here 'Nec_V20".
>
>If you don't like it you can sit on it and rotate.
>
>If you think you drive me away with your childish
>bitch mouth, you are as dumb as you seem to be.
>
>You are just another cowardly bigot hiding behind
>the internet and trying to stab people in the back
>with your vicious gossip.
Fortunately, you are above ad hominems. Bitch, bigot, liar you can
say, but I'm that for calling you a contrarian troll.
Is this really what Defrene taught you? You know what a hadith is,
compared to the Quran?
>
>Tom
Tom Newton
<30e4c30d-6e3a-4ff0...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com
> Nec_V20 <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
So tell me something. If you are so smart and superior, how did
you ever get involved with a bunch of losers like 'Anonymous'?
These are the dregs of humanity, White trash with computers.
99% of them have never seen a Scientologist, never taken a
Scientology course, never read a Scientology book. Never known
anyone who was adversely affected by Scientology.
All they do is parrot stupid hate propaganda because they are
pathetic misfits who hate their lives and have found a way to
project their self-loathing on others while they are safely
hidden behind the internet.
Many of them seem to be mentally retarded, others seem to
be genuine sociopaths.
No one takes them seriously but fools.
Nec_V20
> On 2008-06-28, in
> <30e4c30d-6e3a-4ff0-b7e8-2d9d313f1...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com
Tom,
again you delve into the speculation pot and again you come up empty
handed.
You are one of the few people I know who could dive into a barrel full
of Pamela Anderson certified tits and come out sucking your thumb.
Anyone who does what they did to Terril Park, isn't anyone I am going
to endorse anytime real soon now.
I have no "guilt by association" because thre is no association.
Bad catch, but nice try though.
Tom Newton
<a3be3f90-c1d1-4dbe...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com
> Nec_V20 <ARC_Tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Who has a dozen other names she hides behind.
Nec_V20 is a typical 'Anonymous' troll. Thinks I'm going to
read her sophomoric abuse from now until forever. Time
to gag this bitch bigot and say something useful.
<snip>
Here's a repost from someone who dropped in to learn about
Scientology (the name of the group _is_ alt.religion.scientology
after all) and was so disgusted that he turned around and headed
for saner pastures:
> Path: news.edisontel.com!nntp.eutelia.it!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!postnews.google.com!k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> From: "Dave M." <david.a.n.meyers[AT]gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Subject: Re: Clearwater Cultist Business Owners Don't Believe in
> Constitutional Rights
> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 18:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Lines: 41
> Message-ID: <cb40be13-6d8b-418d-a801-5f9499bdcec0[AT]k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
> References: <d105d3ef-55a8-4404-8f36-88dba780225a[AT]q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
> <8d186728-997f-4ac9-a153-1dac8b6ab43b[AT]n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
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> Xref: treeoflife.3v8l2x.net alt.religion.scientology:38663
C_Van wrote:
> On May 13, 3:12=EF=BF=BDpm, redcoat1...[AT]gmail.com wrote:
> > Scary little freaks these cultists are.
> >
> > They want to take away the right to peacefully assemble.
> >
> > What a crock.
> >
> > http://forums.enturbulation.org/15-breaking-news/anonymous-stifles-cl...=
> >
> > This will backfire, and it will be sweet.
>
> What amazes me is that they put signs in their windows refusing to
> serve anons and then complain that their business suffers on the one
> day a month when the protestors are there. The cafe's and quick-stop
> stores would probably make a ton of money if they served anons. If
> these stores had signs saying "No Jews" or "we do not serve blacks",
> the law would be all over them. This could be a MAJOR footbullet for
> them.
Geesh, that may be the most massive unwitting PKB I've ever seen on
Usenet.
"Anonymous" is not a protected group as far as US hate crime laws go,
but Scientologists certainly are. Why do you think ya'll's YouTube
crap gets yanked so easily?
It's more like a "No KKK" sign than anything else. The Jewish
comparison is particularly stirring, considering that most of the
stuff Scientology is accused of today is exactly the same stuff Jews
have been accused of for centuries. You could substitute
"Scientologist" for "Jew" in many hate group articles and you'd ALL
agree with them!
BTW, I will not be reading any replies to this post and will not be
visiting this group ever again. I've done the research, and it's plain
that trying to talk reason to anyone posting here is like defending
black people or Jews at a Neo-Nazi site. They have so-called
statistics and purported facts to quote, too, and that doesn't make
their hate any less disgusting.
endquote
Note that "@" was changed to "[AT]" above to keep google from
trashing those parts of the post.
peters...@gmail.com
> Blablabla
Title fix.
Nec_V20
> On 2008-06-28, in
Tom,
you reply so why bitch - could the Tom be an insignificant tommisina?
A Tom with the certain "je ne sais quoi" snipped off at the vital
discovery of genitarial intent?
Did your mother want you to be a bitch and was aghast that you turned
out to be a wimp instead?
I would say that it must be hard for you, but I realise you have met
so few women in your life that you can hardly be called upon to make
any objective judgement - let alone meet the criteria.
Hephaestus
> On Jun 25, 6:04 am, Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 24, 4:51 pm, Astrid7777...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 22, 5:28 pm, Nec_V20 <ARC_Trian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I invoke Godwin's Law
>
> > > I revoke Godwin's Law. "Those who cannot remember the past, are
> > > condemned to repeat it." (Santayana)
>
> > > Scientology has enough in common with Nazism, especially before
> > > Hitler’s rise to power, but after it too, that they need to be watched
> > > carefully, so another catastrophe doesn't happen. Hitler would not
> > > have risen to power, if more people inside and outside of Germany had
> > > taken him more seriously.
>
> > > After he attempted a coup of the government in the Beer Hall Putsch
> > > (1923), and ended up in jail, there simply weren’t enough people who
> > > considered Hitler anything other than a rabble-rouser.
>
> > > After forcing President Hindenburg into appointing Hitler as
> > > Chancellor, at a key time in Hitler’s political rise, journalists and
> > > newspaper editors within Germany were roughed up and intimidated by
> > > Hitler’s thugs in the SA., if they wrote any negative articles about
> > > the Nazis.
>
> > > Before 1933, when Hitler took power, too many bright people thought
> > > Hitler was a character who couldn’t possibly ascend to power. The few
> > > who went to hear him speak in the beer hall, sometimes thought
> > > differently. They saw his amazing rhetorical gift and the effect he
> > > had on an audience. They tried to warn others, but….
>
> > > The comparisons are worth making, in spite of the differences. I feel
> > > the main reason Hitler was able to seize power was that Germany was
> > > ripe, actually yearning, for a person like Hitler, a dictator who
> > > promised to restore Germany after economic devastation of the Great
> > > Depression, but also restore national pride after the humiliation of
> > > losing WWI and the harsh terms of the Versailles Treaty.
>
> > > Scientology isn’t about to take over any country in the world, let
> > > alone the U.S., at this time. They don’t even have a firm grip on the
> > > government of Clearwater. However, Scientology has one large
> > > advantage over the early Nazi party; considerable wealth.
>
> > > Their big disadvantage is uncontrolled exposure of their scam via the
> > > web. If Germans in the few years before Hitler came to power, had
> > > access to Joachim Fest’s bio, HITLER (which wasn't written until
> > > decades later), just the chapters about his youth and up until his
> > > service in WWI, they may not have allowed that deluded loner to be dog
> > > catcher, let alone let him lead the country. In my imagination, I keep
> > > letting Hitler into the Art Academy in Vienna.
>
> > > Word is out on Hubbard AND Scientology, via Bare-Faced Messiah and
> > > dozens of other books, documents, personal testimonies, and articles.
> > > It is not like people are going to make Hubbard and Scientology just
> > > what they'd like it to be in their imagination, as they did with
> > > Hitler.
>
> > > I found the pictures chilling too, the first time I saw them a few
> > > weeks ago. Miscavige’s gold-painted styrofoam sets take on a similar
> > > symmetry and placement of symbols as the Nazis, but it also remind me
> > > of Disney or Academy Award glitz.
>
> > > The bottom line is both organizations have/had the ultimate goal of
> > > world domination by taking over, or becoming the ones in charge. It’s
> > > a bit over-the-top to even think that a pseudo-religion scam like
> > > Scientology could take over government, but it was even more
> > > incredible that Hitler took over a country like yer’n, and then
> > > started doing what he did. So, we gotta watch those Scilons.
>
> > Excellent post.
>
> astrid,
>
> America over the past eight years should be your guide. The lesson to
> be learned is, "Beware the simple narrative".
>
> I take it that you are not German, so some really enlightening facts
> will escape your notice. That's not your fault, but when you
> retrospectively declare, "It is obvious that ...", it might be an idea
> to go beyond what makes sense to you as an outsider.
>
> First of all, and let's be clear on this, the main driving force
> behind Hitler and his agenda came from America. The means and methods
> to implement this agenda came from America. End of story.
>
> Or is it?
>
> To this day Germans learn two languages. Their own dialect, and
> "Hochdeutsch". To this day, for Germans, and I am German so I think I
> can be granted a small insight into this, are from their region first,
> and "Germany" is a pretty remote second.
>
> If you got a number of Germans from around the country together and
> they were to talk to each other in their own dialects then they would
> not understand each other.
>
> This is true even within the regions. I come from the Westerwald,
> specifically the Oberwesterwald as opposed to the Unterwesterwald.
> Even in the Oberwesterwald, if I go to a township just 10 kilometers
> away, they have a different language - not a different dialect, but
> literally a different language! We are only talking about six miles
> here.
>
> Now you could say that this is true of English, but as you may have
> noticed, my English is not exactly "For beginners". I have more chance
> of understanding an interview with a black guy from Harlem speaking in
> his jive, than I do understanding a German when he/she reverts to
> their own version of German.
>
> What has this to do with the "simple narrative" I mentioned?
>
> After WWI the monarchy was dissolved and "democracy" was implemented.
> The Prussian "Iron Chancellor" Bismark had created a "Germany" that
> didn't exist - had never existed. The concept of the "United States of
> America" is actually a lot older than the concept of "Germany".
>
> So you have a bunch of guys getting together in Weimar who cannot even
> talk to each other except through the intermediary of a foreign
> artificial language called "Hochdeutsh"
>
> When I have listened to speeches by Hitler I must confess to having
> difficulty understanding them. He tries to speak Hochdeutsch, but only
> manages it in the high points and then descends into gibberish for the
> rest of any recording I have ever heard. There again, he was Austrian.
>
> In the land of the tone-deaf the one who bends the ear is king. That
> explains more about Hitler than all your "Well it was" pat theories.
>
> The reason for Hitler's success in "Germany" was because he was not
> Prussian. He did not represent the "Kaiserreich" and thus was given a
> vote of confidence that turned out to be fatal.
>
> Hitler based his entire politics on the American "theory" of Eugenics.
> He pointed with pride to the fact that what he was saying had been
> "proven" and successfully implemented in the US since 1900. Even at
> the Nürnberg trials the prosecutors sought to kill any reference to
> Eugenics or the use of that in defence of the accused.
>
> If not for the willing and active cooperation of IBM the holocaust
> would never have happened.
>
> With regard to Hitler it was quite literally "USA all the way" - and
> the fact that he was not Prussian.
I agree, somewhat. Hitler used eugenics and anything that wasn't his
vision of perfection in a persecution of himself.
dox
http://brainmind.com/Hitler.html
Evidence has been presented in the past to suggest Hitler was
ridiculed as a school child for having a Jewish godfather. The
motivation is just as important as the how, because it is the why.
The other why is the large influx of Jews and others into Germany
before and during WW1, mostly because they were being driven out of
Russia during the pogroms of the Bolshevik revolution, which brings
disturbing, but pretty irrelevant, correlations between that and the
Mexicans. Hell we could also blame his father for being a mean old
bastard. All of these things contributed, all these things my take
their place on the altar of shame. We know how, he had a lot of help,
and lot of people who did some cretinous shit got away with it.
They're probably all dead, or if they aren't they've already gotten
away with it to the point you can't touch them, I'm not lazy, just a
realist, that's the world, it can crush your soul like the pressure in
the Mariana trench can crush your form into a gelatinous sack of
flesh.
But doing this really has no purpose, I like the way Germany is now,
clean, efficient, no scientology. Very cool.
You do have a rather expanded vocabulary, you probably even know what
alluvial means, good on ya.
I have to agree with you on overusing them though. When things are
overused they lose their meaning.
http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU05/02178/EGU05-J-02178.pdf
Here we see that even though Hawaiians at Hilo had monthly tests and
instructions in every phone book about everything to do with
tsunami's, many still died because they failed to understand the
meaning of the particular siren warnings they were given, it's been
suggested that after hearing them so much that they actually started
ignoring them.
Hephaestus
wrote:
he's tom, he's almost never on point.
Hephaestus
> On 2008-06-27, in
he really got to you, didn't he?
Hephaestus
> On 2008-06-28, in
> <a3be3f90-c1d1-4dbe-a1c0-e7b5e98d8...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com
>
Wait you think Nec is an anon?
Hah, he's been around longer than me! And I was here years before
they even heard of scientology!
peters...@gmail.com
Title fix.
Nec_V20
Hephaestus
correct me if I am wrong, but the old fable of the boy who cried
"Wolf" would illustrate the point you are making.
I am making the point that the overuse of the Nazi comparison devalues
not only language in general but also trivialises the very real horror
of what my country inflicted on so many from 1933-45.
I think however a comparison of the two pseudosciences Scientology and
Eugenics is a valid one. It is indisputable that Hitler called upon
the American version of Eugenics as a legitimising agency and
inspiration for his policies.
What if another political leader decided to implement Scientology, and
used the criteria of "Non-Clearness" as a reason to implement the
doctrine of "Dispose of quietly and without sorrow" or as it was
euphemistically known in my country as the "Endloesung" (final
solution)?
Would Scientologists point in pride to such a leader?
Nec_V20
Hephaestus,
yes I do know what alluvial means, and I think that "alluvium" is a
valid description of how I concretise as opposed to "effluvium" which
characterises the misplaced concretion of Tom Newton or some others.