Laura Terepin--a whore for scientology
Bob Minton
My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
If you have months of circumstantial evidence that make you wonder about the
veracity of a persons motivations what do you do? We hired some PI's with
impecable credentials to check up on a few points about Laura.
Laura lied about living alone in Madison WI. She never mentioned that one of
her 3 house mates was a co$ chicago staff member.
Laura cell phones were billed to a Hollywood, CA private investigator who
seemingly had at least 13 other phones billed to him that were linked to co$
operatives.
Laura's boyfriend, who I went dancing with in SFO with Stacy and the whore,
works for the same PI who handled the phones.
And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
records.
Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If you believe
us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
by me about Laura Terepin--a whore who works for scientology.
It was extremely difficult for Stacy to believe that for a third time
scientology had run a plant in on her. It really hurts to be betrayed so
badly.
But Stacy has no doubt about Laura after seeing incontrovertible evidence.
Cynthia Kisser is also having a difficult time accepting the reality of having
worked in CAN with a scientology plant for so long. I regret that Cynthia
dismissed allegations about Laura that were made years ago by at least one CAN
employee. If she had listened then, maybe CAN would still be around today.
We do not intend the same fate to befall FACTNet.
Bob Minton,
FACTNet Director
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William Barwell
Kisser? Another thread claims that as of this point in time, no.
Now, IF this whore has been involved in commercial espionage on behalf of
Scientology against CAn and FACTnet, and you have proof, will you be
taking this to the courts?
Maybe it is time to demand a TRO on behalf of FACTnet board members
in regards to Scientology's methods of infiltration, harassment and
fair game tactics.
Rather than bitch about it, I, had I been target of garbage like
this would be going to a judge and asking that Scientology be forbidden
to harrass FACTnet members in this manner.
And I would be starting a suit and suing Ms Whore and her employwers
for everything a team of lawyers could come up with. And any illegalities
would have seen then sued.
I hope you all had sense to bait them with juicy stuff and left
materials around for them to steal so you could pop 'em for theft
and industrial espionage or some such opp.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
Deana Marie Holmes
Minton) wrote:
>My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
Where's your evidence, Bob? You were real good about showing it to
Cynthia Kisser. (In other words, you DIDN'T.)
That's going to be my chant, "Where's your evidence, Bob?"
I notice that Bob is accusing any of us who are asking for evidence of
being "OSA's friend."
Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod Keller)
The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
mir...@xmission.com
John M. Vreeland (Vreejack)
Bob Minton wrote:
> My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
You sound like Deana Marie Holmes. Please stop trying to sink to her level.
[heresay evidence snipped]
Okay sounds pretty damning. But she was a former christian cult member,
right? How in the world did she get into Scientology® after volunteering for
CAN? Was she always a scientologist? This kind of deep-cover work is spooky.
How can someone keep two diametricaly opposed ideas in their head like that?
So, Bob, are you going to start running Scientology®-style sec checks?
Vreejack
Tilman Hausherr
Marie Holmes) wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:53 GMT, bobm...@cultofscientology.net (Bob
>Minton) wrote:
>
>>My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
>
>Where's your evidence, Bob? You were real good about showing it to
>Cynthia Kisser. (In other words, you DIDN'T.)
Hey - what he presented should be enough for you and me. I would agree
that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP. But don't expect
Bob to post personal phone records right here. I am fully satisfied with
Bob's latest post. I hope that this will play a role in the FACTNet and
CAN trials. Ford Greene and Michael Flynn scored big after they "only"
caught someone going through garbage.
If Laura isn't a plant - why does she call OSA every day, why does she
live with a clam staffer?
>That's going to be my chant, "Where's your evidence, Bob?"
Keep chanting, if that makes you feel better. But you'll sound silly.
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Clearwater pictures: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4497/clearwater/index.html
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Keith Henson
: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
: My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
: If you have months of circumstantial evidence that make you wonder about the
: veracity of a persons motivations what do you do? We hired some PI's with
: impecable credentials to check up on a few points about Laura.
: Laura lied about living alone in Madison WI. She never mentioned that one of
: her 3 house mates was a co$ chicago staff member.
: Laura cell phones were billed to a Hollywood, CA private investigator who
: seemingly had at least 13 other phones billed to him that were linked to co$
: operatives.
: Laura's boyfriend, who I went dancing with in SFO with Stacy and the whore,
: works for the same PI who handled the phones.
: And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
: records.
: Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
: not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
: involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If you believe
: us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
: destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
: by me about Laura Terepin--a whore who works for scientology.
Well folks, there you have it. Bob, in a PGP signed msg said something
which (if untrue) would ruin the reputation of this person. This is such
an open and shut case, and Bob has so much $$$$ that I would expect a suit
to be filed in about ten minutes from now *unless* what he says is true.
Can anyone find a flaw in my logic? (I am asking for help here).
Nine . . . eight . . . seven . . . . .
Keith Henson
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
wrote:
Sounds very reasonable, and it is the same logic I use
in my fight with the cult. I've seen many on ARS claiming
a lot about clams and cult apologists without them being
looked up the sleeve like Bob Minton has been.
Best wishes, SP4 & Adm. TOXE CXI
Andreas Heldal-Lund, Normannsgaten 9, N-4013 Stavanger, Norway
Pho: +47 88 00 66 66 Fax: 90 32 35 46 E-mail: hel...@online.no
home.sol.no/~spirous www.xenu.net www.hedning.no/hedning
---------------------------------------------------------------
"The great snare of thought is uncritical acceptance of
irrational assumptions." - Will Durant
---------------------------------------------------------------
tall...@storm.ca
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>
>My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
That's right, Bob. Anyone who asks for evidence is OSA's friend. Do you divide
the world into such stark lines of 'friends' and 'enemies'? Is a 'friend'
someone who never criticizes you? Is an 'enemy' someone who asks questions, or
demands evidence?
Doesn't this remind you of something?
>If you have months of circumstantial evidence that make you wonder about the
>veracity of a persons motivations what do you do? We hired some PI's with
>impecable credentials to check up on a few points about Laura.
What was this 'circumstantial evidence' that led you to hire the PI in the
first place? And who is 'we'? Was this a FACTnet project, or your own personal
little witch --- err, spyhunt? What motivated the initial suspicion?
>
>Laura lied about living alone in Madison WI. She never mentioned that one of
>her 3 house mates was a co$ chicago staff member.
Evidence, please? The name of the staff member, plus a masked version of the
address of the house would suffice.
Also, was this person a former or a current CoS member? I can't help but note
that *you* are living in close quarters with two former CoS staffers yourself,
Bob. Is that supposed to be evidence of being an OSA agent?
>Laura cell phones were billed to a Hollywood, CA private investigator who
>seemingly had at least 13 other phones billed to him that were linked to co$
>operatives.
Evidence, please? And what do you mean by 'seemingly'? Either he did or he
didn't. And on what evidence did you know that these other 13 phones were
linked to CoS operatives?
>Laura's boyfriend, who I went dancing with in SFO with Stacy and the whore,
>works for the same PI who handled the phones.
Evidence, please? The name of the PI would be a good start.
>And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
>records.
Evidence, please? Scans of the phone records would do nicely.
>Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
>not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
>involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If you believe
>us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
>destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
>by me about Laura Terepin--a whore who works for scientology.
Alright, Bob, here's the thing: this isn't evidence. These are claims.
Details from Stacy and Jesse also aren't evidence. They're corroborating
claims. Evidence is actual material to BACK UP these claims. That would be the
stuff that we won't see.
What exactly do you have that isn't 'attorney client privileged material'?
Other than your word? Wasn't that about what you had to back up the Dorian
story? You told us that evidence would be forthcoming - but then changed your
mind. Dorian lambasted us for having the chutzpah to demand evidence at all.
It didn't cut much ice then, and it certainly hasn't improved with time.
The difference, of course, is that this is a real person who you have attacked
- slandered, possibly - on a public forum, using terms like 'Whore of
Scientology.' This isn't a fictional character like Dorian. This woman has a
right to defend herself against your claims, and she can't do that unless you
produce something other than innuendo.
Evidence can be shown to be faulty. Claims are ephemeral.
>It was extremely difficult for Stacy to believe that for a third time
>scientology had run a plant in on her. It really hurts to be betrayed so
>badly.
>But Stacy has no doubt about Laura after seeing incontrovertible evidence.
Maybe the rest of us would have 'no doubt' after seeing this incontrovertible
evidence. But at the moment, we haven't - and from what you've said in this
post, we won't.
What you're saying is, believe my word that this woman is a whore for
scientology.' That doesn't cut it in the real world outside your little cadre.
It's a lot like LRH saying 'I've done the research.'
>Cynthia Kisser is also having a difficult time accepting the reality of having
>worked in CAN with a scientology plant for so long. I regret that Cynthia
>dismissed allegations about Laura that were made years ago by at least one CAN
>employee. If she had listened then, maybe CAN would still be around today.
Maybe Cynthia Kisser is having a difficult time accepting this 'reality'
because it's not 'true for her'. Maybe she'd like to see some actual evidence.
Maybe she doesn't take 'because I said so' as proof of such an extreme claim.
You say that you can't show the rest of us this 'evidence' because of atty
client privilege, yet at the same time, Stacy claims that she gave Cynthia the
means to verify the information. Why are you able to show this evidence to
Stacy and Jesse, but not to Cynthia Kisser, who would be in the best position
to judge whether it jibes with what she experienced during her years working
with Laura?
These claims have been floating around 'back channels' for months now, yet you
waited until December to contact Cynthia Kisser, the woman with the most to
lose if Laura was, indeed, a plant. You fed bits of information to some
FACTnet hangers-on, like Arnie Lerma, who keeps mentioning that he has
'tidbits', as well as people in Clearwater - yet you didn't bother to contact
Cynthia until last month. And when you did, you didn't follow through with
your promise to provide evidence to back up these claims.
This is serious stuff, Bob. I think you're having a difficult time accepting
the reality that your word is NOT enough for some of us, at least. I want to
see specifics, and I plan on giving this woman the chance to respond to your
allegations. Until you produce something more than this, I put this claim next
to your claims of secret scientology founders and 'confirmed' cat poisonings.
K
tall...@storm.ca
>In <36a78268...@enews.newsguy.com>, mir...@newsguy.com (Deana
>Marie Holmes) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:53 GMT, bobm...@cultofscientology.net (Bob
>>Minton) wrote:
>>
>>
>>Cynthia Kisser. (In other words, you DIDN'T.)
>
>Hey - what he presented should be enough for you and me.
It's not. And *I* decide what's enough for me, not you, and not Minton.
>I would agree
>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP.
It's been a month. She's still waiting.
>But don't expect
>Bob to post personal phone records right here. I am fully satisfied with
>Bob's latest post.
I see nothing to back up his original claims. I just see more detailed claims.
Without evidence, they are nothing more than that.
>I hope that this will play a role in the FACTNet and
>CAN trials. Ford Greene and Michael Flynn scored big after they "only"
>caught someone going through garbage.
>
>If Laura isn't a plant - why does she call OSA every day, why does she
>live with a clam staffer?
Tilman, I have evidence that you call OSA LA every day too, and that you live
with a CoS staffer in Berlin. Now, disprove my evidence.
See the problem?
>>That's going to be my chant, "Where's your evidence, Bob?"
>
>Keep chanting, if that makes you feel better. But you'll sound silly.
>
Someone certainly does sound silly here, but it's not Mirele.
K
©Anti-Cult®
In Message-ID: <36a5c25...@news.snafu.de>
til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr).
From: The 1.1 Communications Company, Inc..
Wrote on the subject: Re: Laura Terepin--a whore for scientology:
>In <36a78268...@enews.newsguy.com>, mir...@newsguy.com (Deana
>Marie Holmes) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:53 GMT, bobm...@cultofscientology.net (Bob
>>Minton) wrote:
>>
>>>My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
>>
>>Where's your evidence, Bob? You were real good about showing it to
>>Cynthia Kisser. (In other words, you DIDN'T.)
>
>Hey - what he presented should be enough for you and me. I would agree
>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP. But don't expect
>Bob to post personal phone records right here. I am fully satisfied with
>Bob's latest post. I hope that this will play a role in the FACTNet and
>CAN trials. Ford Greene and Michael Flynn scored big after they "only"
>caught someone going through garbage.
>
>If Laura isn't a plant - why does she call OSA every day, why does she
>live with a clam staffer?
Where's the evidence of that? We only have Minton's word for it.
>
>>That's going to be my chant, "Where's your evidence, Bob?"
>
>Keep chanting, if that makes you feel better. But you'll sound silly.
Then I'm silly to.
>
>Tilman
Sten-Arne
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
Some people who are deaf or blind might simply have a cluster
sitting on a nerve, and it's gone on so many years the nerve
atrophies. Catatonics may be suffering from this sort of knockout.
This explains why a tactile process works - you run tactile on the
bed, etc, after an accident and the guy comes out of it.
--NED for OTs Series 22
LRH;dm:kjm
Copyright (c) 1978
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------------------
******* Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! *******
*********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
* Multimedia: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm *
**** Public PGP key: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/pgp.htm *****
******** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) ********
---------------------------------------------------------------------
©Anti-Cult®
In Message-ID: <hkhensonF...@netcom.com>
Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com>.
From: ICGNetcom.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Laura Terepin--a whore for scientology:
>Bob Minton <bobm...@cultofscientology.net> wrote:
>: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>: My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
>
>: If you have months of circumstantial evidence that make you wonder about the
>: veracity of a persons motivations what do you do? We hired some PI's with
>: impecable credentials to check up on a few points about Laura.
>
>: Laura lied about living alone in Madison WI. She never mentioned that one of
>: her 3 house mates was a co$ chicago staff member.
>
>: Laura cell phones were billed to a Hollywood, CA private investigator who
>: seemingly had at least 13 other phones billed to him that were linked to co$
>: operatives.
>
>: Laura's boyfriend, who I went dancing with in SFO with Stacy and the whore,
>: works for the same PI who handled the phones.
>
>: And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
>: records.
>
>: Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
>: not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
>: involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If you believe
>: us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
>: destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
>: by me about Laura Terepin--a whore who works for scientology.
>
>Well folks, there you have it. Bob, in a PGP signed msg said something
>which (if untrue) would ruin the reputation of this person. This is such
>an open and shut case, and Bob has so much $$$$ that I would expect a suit
>to be filed in about ten minutes from now *unless* what he says is true.
>
>Can anyone find a flaw in my logic? (I am asking for help here).
>
>Nine . . . eight . . . seven . . . . .
>
>
>Keith Henson
Does Laura have the money to file a suit? If not, she just have to live
with it. Maybe Bob counts on that....
Dave Bird
ultofscientology.net> writes
>Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
>not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
>involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If you believe
>us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
>destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
>by me about Laura Terepin--a whore who works for scientology.
[POSTED AND MAILED]
It would still be sensible for you to do what you said you were going
to do viz (1) tell your PI that you, as the client, authorise him
to show Cynthia Kisser the evidence and (2) phone Cynthia Kisser
to tell her this has been done and she can now make an appointment
with the PI to see them.
This is only what you have already said you would do. There may be
some misunderstanding -- because I don't think you deliberately
misstated the position -- that you thought one of you had authorised
the PI to release the evidence when this had not yet been done.
So do it now, and silence your detractors.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
Arbe
(tall...@storm.ca) wrote:
> In article <36a4497f...@news.newsguy.com>,
> bobm...@cultofscientology.net (Bob Minton) wrote:
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> >
> >My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
>
> That's right, Bob. Anyone who asks for evidence is OSA's friend. Do you
divide
> the world into such stark lines of 'friends' and 'enemies'? Is a 'friend'
> someone who never criticizes you? Is an 'enemy' someone who asks
questions, or
> demands evidence?
>
> Doesn't this remind you of something?
>
snip
>
> Evidence, please? The name of the PI would be a good start.
>
> >And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
> >records.
>
> Evidence, please? Scans of the phone records would do nicely.
>
snip
> The difference, of course, is that this is a real person who you have
attacked
> - slandered, possibly - on a public forum, using terms like 'Whore of
> Scientology.' This isn't a fictional character like Dorian. This woman has a
> right to defend herself against your claims, and she can't do that unless you
> produce something other than innuendo.
>
> Evidence can be shown to be faulty. Claims are ephemeral.
****Slander is of course spoken - libel is written- and they do cross over -
BUT THRUTH IS AN ABSOLUTE DEFENSE and the person libeled/slandered
generally does not have to "prove" the statements are false to win ( it
does get sort of complex ) --
So how long do we wait for Laura to file ? If Bob cannot prove his
statements beyond a reasonable doubt - Laura would win - and surely the
CO$ could afford a lawyer to help save her reputation --and that of the
"Church"
So what is left - CO$ is tring to find out What else Bob has for proof --
well they can do that easily - j,ust file suit against him ...
We are waiting
--
<* ARBE -- SP2 --
<* Spammers and Forgers Note I am a Resident of Washington State
<* Damages limited to what you paid me for my opinion
tall...@storm.ca
>
>Well folks, there you have it. Bob, in a PGP signed msg said something
>which (if untrue) would ruin the reputation of this person. This is such
>an open and shut case, and Bob has so much $$$$ that I would expect a suit
>to be filed in about ten minutes from now *unless* what he says is true.
You have never sued the CoS for alleging that you molested your daughter.
Dennis has never sued the CoS for any of the many claims they have made about
his relations with his wife, children and former scientologists.
Bob Minton has never sued the CoS for its attacks on his mental state,
fidelity and business ethics.
Does this mean that all these things are true?
>
>Can anyone find a flaw in my logic? (I am asking for help here).
>
>Nine . . . eight . . . seven . . . . .
>
Bzzzt.
K
Frank Copeland
Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Can anyone find a flaw in my logic? (I am asking for help here).
>
>Nine . . . eight . . . seven . . . . .
The same flaw as in the argument that if Bob Minton or Grady Ward didn't
deny posting the anonymous attack on Deana, it proved one or the other of
them posted it.
- --
Home Page: <URL:http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/>
Not the Scientology Home Page: <URL:http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/>
Keep it in Usenet. E-mail replies and 'courtesy' copies are not welcome.
If you're selling, I ain't buying.
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Tilman Hausherr
(tall...@storm.ca) wrote:
>>Hey - what he presented should be enough for you and me.
>
>It's not. And *I* decide what's enough for me, not you, and not Minton.
Well, of course I would like to see the evidence too. But there is no
reason that Bob would send it to me.
>>I would agree
>>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP.
>
>It's been a month. She's still waiting.
There is no evidence for this. You just say it. If you "know" so much,
why don't you have the records yourself?
>>But don't expect
>>Bob to post personal phone records right here. I am fully satisfied with
>>Bob's latest post.
>
>I see nothing to back up his original claims. I just see more detailed claims.
>Without evidence, they are nothing more than that.
Yeah, and maybe everyone who finds his pet dead on the doorstep should
also arrange the pet to be scanned. After all, by your rules of
evidence, we don't really know that Stacy is running a cat shelter.
Maybe she is actually living in Manhattan in a one room apartment.
>>I hope that this will play a role in the FACTNet and
>>CAN trials. Ford Greene and Michael Flynn scored big after they "only"
>>caught someone going through garbage.
>>
>>If Laura isn't a plant - why does she call OSA every day, why does she
>>live with a clam staffer?
>
>Tilman, I have evidence that you call OSA LA every day too, and that you live
>with a CoS staffer in Berlin. Now, disprove my evidence.
Is is the truth and the staffer is called "Xenu".
>See the problem?
No.
>>>That's going to be my chant, "Where's your evidence, Bob?"
>>
>>Keep chanting, if that makes you feel better. But you'll sound silly.
>
>Someone certainly does sound silly here, but it's not Mirele.
Yes, it was wrong not to suggest that more than just one person is
silly. You'll look real dumb when the matter will be part of the court
record, possibly helping to win the FACTNet and CAN cases, or when Laura
(or should be call her "Whaura"?) will post scurrilous affidavits here.
Tilman Hausherr
(tall...@storm.ca) wrote:
>You have never sued the CoS for alleging that you molested your daughter.
He would not win in the US. 1. Henson is a public figure. 2. Carolyn
Meinel has apparently made this claim at some time. The clams are too
busy to clearing the planet to search the court files to check whether
she retracted it later.
Tilman Hausherr
The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (©Anti-Cult®) wrote:
>Does Laura have the money to file a suit? If not, she just have to live
>with it. Maybe Bob counts on that....
Get real. Why should Bob libel a completely innocent person? Kindof "I
haven't been in the news much, so I'll take a random volunteer and claim
she is a plant"
James J. Lippard
tall...@storm.ca <tall...@storm.ca> wrote:
>In article <36a5c25...@news.snafu.de>, til...@berlin.snafu.de
>(Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>>Marie Holmes) wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:53 GMT, bobm...@cultofscientology.net (Bob
>>>Minton) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Cynthia Kisser. (In other words, you DIDN'T.)
>>
>
>It's not. And *I* decide what's enough for me, not you, and not Minton.
It would be enough, perhaps, *if* Minton's track record was flawless. But
with the Dorian stuff, his record is rather less than stellar.
>>I would agree
>>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP.
>
>It's been a month. She's still waiting.
This is particularly troubling.
But what motivation would Bob Minton or Stacy Brooks have for lying about
this? What are the possible scenarios here, and which one best fits the
evidence we do have (that evidence being that Minton and Brooks have made
particular claims)?
If the claimed evidence is never produced for the benefit of Cynthia
Kisser or anyone else, then I'd say this is another Dorian-like hit
against their credibility.
--
Jim Lippard lippard@(primenet.com discord.org ediacara.org)
Phoenix, Arizona http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/
PGP Fingerprint: B130 7BE1 18C1 AA4C 4D51 388F 6E6D 2C7A 36D3 CB4F
tall...@storm.ca
>In <782kts$1b0...@enews.newsguy.com>, tall...@storm.ca
>(tall...@storm.ca) wrote:
>
>>
>>It's not. And *I* decide what's enough for me, not you, and not Minton.
>
>reason that Bob would send it to me.
If he feels the need to make the claim in public, he can back it up in public.
>>>I would agree
>>>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP.
>>
>>It's been a month. She's still waiting.
>
>There is no evidence for this. You just say it. If you "know" so much,
>why don't you have the records yourself?
There is her word. Do you doubt that? Anyway, Stacy confirmed that she had
given Cynthia Kisser 'the means of verifying the information.' What she didn't
mention is that it was a dead end.
What records are you talking about, anyway?
>
>>>But don't expect
>>>Bob to post personal phone records right here. I am fully satisfied with
>>>Bob's latest post.
>>
>>I see nothing to back up his original claims. I just see more detailed claims.
>
>>Without evidence, they are nothing more than that.
>
>Yeah, and maybe everyone who finds his pet dead on the doorstep should
>also arrange the pet to be scanned. After all, by your rules of
>evidence, we don't really know that Stacy is running a cat shelter.
>Maybe she is actually living in Manhattan in a one room apartment.
We've seen a hell of a lot more evidence of the cat shelter. We've seen
pictures of cats. We've heard from numerous people who have been to Vashon and
seen the cats. We've seen the shelter on various news segments about Stacy and
Vaughn's harassment. I think *I*, for one, can say that I have seen enough
evidence to convince me that there are, indeed, cats, and Stacy is running a
shelter for them.
>>>I hope that this will play a role in the FACTNet and
>>>CAN trials. Ford Greene and Michael Flynn scored big after they "only"
>>>caught someone going through garbage.
>>>
>>>If Laura isn't a plant - why does she call OSA every day, why does she
>>>live with a clam staffer?
>>
>>Tilman, I have evidence that you call OSA LA every day too, and that you live
>>with a CoS staffer in Berlin. Now, disprove my evidence.
>
>Is is the truth and the staffer is called "Xenu".
>
>>See the problem?
>
>No.
None so blind ..
>>>>That's going to be my chant, "Where's your evidence, Bob?"
>>>
>>>Keep chanting, if that makes you feel better. But you'll sound silly.
>>
>>Someone certainly does sound silly here, but it's not Mirele.
>
>Yes, it was wrong not to suggest that more than just one person is
>silly. You'll look real dumb when the matter will be part of the court
>record, possibly helping to win the FACTNet and CAN cases, or when Laura
>(or should be call her "Whaura"?) will post scurrilous affidavits here.
>
When will it become part of the court record? Is this going to be brought
forward in the FACTnet case? If Bob can't show the evidence to anyone, I
really don't see how it would be much use in a court case.
K
Bernie
Minton) wrote:
>My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
As Deana pointed out, one does not need to be an OSA friend to ask
evidence for serious allegations that are being made in public and
that may have serious consequences to other people's life.
>If you have months of circumstantial evidence that make you wonder about the
>veracity of a persons motivations what do you do? We hired some PI's with
>impecable credentials to check up on a few points about Laura.
>
>Laura lied about living alone in Madison WI.
Where did she say this?
>She never mentioned that one of
>her 3 house mates was a co$ chicago staff member.
Did she knew it? What is a "house mate"? Someone who lives in the same
house (could be a neighbor) or someone with whom she lives? In the
later case, they lived together with four?
>Laura cell phones were billed to
Dunno what that means.
>a Hollywood, CA private investigator who
>seemingly
Seemingly?
>had at least 13 other phones billed to him that were linked to co$
>operatives.
Still dunno what billed to means. Did the PI pay for her phone bills
of what?
>Laura's boyfriend, who I went dancing with in SFO with Stacy and the whore,
>works for the same PI who handled the phones.
Did she know that the PI (allegedly) worked for OSA?
>And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
>records.
That may be a clincher, but so far we only have your word for it.
You also claimed that "Scientology kills 3 cats on Vashon,
Washington", and failed to apologize when this was shown to be an
outright lie. You claimed that "the 3 myterious cat deaths over the
last few days have now been confirmed to have been caused by poison",
and failed to provide any explanation on how has this "been
confirmed", since this was clearly not true. You lied again to the
press denying you had an affair with Stacy (you should be impeached
:-)
Some people may find that it would take more than just your word to
believe you.
How did the PI get hold of Laura's phone record? I thought that only
the FBI or what could do that. And how does it show the calls? (In
some countries, local and regional calls aren't detailed. Dunno about
the States).
>Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
>not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
>involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If you believe
>us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
>destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
>by me about Laura Terepin--a whore who works for scientology.
Why didn't you send evidence to CK despite the fact that she asked for
them repeatedly? To make allegations against someone close to her and
then leave her hanging isn't very charitable. Why do you prefer to
post "proofs" to ars rather than first checking them with CK? If you
can't provide your proofs because they are client privilege or were
obtained illegally, then why do you even start out with this in
public?
>It was extremely difficult for Stacy to believe that for a third time
>scientology had run a plant in on her. It really hurts to be betrayed so
>badly.
>But Stacy has no doubt about Laura after seeing incontrovertible evidence.
>
>Cynthia Kisser is also having a difficult time accepting the reality of having
>worked in CAN with a scientology plant for so long.
I have seen no trace of that in Cynthia's post at all. She obviously
is open to this possibility, provided that enough convincing evidences
are provided. You made allegations. You said you will provide her with
evidences, which you didn't, even after several weeks and several
requests. Then you have the guts to accuse Kisser of "having a
difficult time accepting the reality etc". This is stupid. Why do you
believe that whatever you say should blindly be accepted as "the
reality"?
>I regret that Cynthia
>dismissed allegations about Laura that were made years ago by at least one CAN
>employee.
If people accept this kind of allegation, half of this newsgroup would
already be done away with. This kind of allegation is done almost
routinely in anti-cult milieu and it would be crazy to accept them
without checking hard and solid evidences first.
>If she had listened then, maybe CAN would still be around today.
>We do not intend the same fate to befall FACTNet.
From the little I know, Scott escaped the forcible deprogramming and
put up an official complain. Why would the CoS need an inside plant to
learn about something that is plain and visible from the outside?
But who knows? Maybe you are right. Maybe Laura is a plant and maybe
you will provide more evidences. But even so (and this remains to be
seen), the way you went about it is quite revealing.
And, BTW, what does it all have to do with the criticism that has been
made about FACTNet and the Dorian material?
Bernie
http://welcome.to/ars
Douglas Mackall
ben...@flash.net says...
>
> Here's a question. Is this an official e-mail address for Bob? The post
> came from bobm...@cultofscientology.net. Isn't his address
> b...@minton.org? Does he post from several accounts?
>
> And can I just copy and paste his pgp signiture like this:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0.2
> Comment: Scientology's Class XII auditors Killed Lisa McPherson
>
> iQEVAwUBNqRHQ1tyvjBngdwTAQHmvAf/b3DP0IBxBTJvEjHyMcyWW99yIsn5Rqap
> k0uOSpB0YQSbegjTbHanmAaliMSdzvK5iCJk8X9Hh017rC8Ugt9ivi9bQYxB6PfY
> f9bwW73wnkPt+BAfbiM/B6w7MfPnV/CTp1HYcNbWl+Bj8Q53YfEg3u650+E4nxaF
> ChHZhCqUWJXVRmpUSy11OfSu3K2B0NJAUcqZPF9DiijG9YGWZL2WKeWGxKDVKarl
> Ha79ksW0icSwOB+Fu0frlXlJk19W8Gpt+JK8/dsIlygGZDpGzsNBEhb8UxPQvZ3P
> oHz3PADS98uO+y3oZBdXBrYhyRCUNAMj+l77/uJaS2gHEeONxbcBEg==
> =UXFt
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> Minton?
No, the signature is tied to the content of the message, and won't verify if
you just cut and paste it.
Wouldn't be much use if anyone could paste it at the end a message and have it
verify.
--
SubGenius Police, Usenet Tactical Unit (Mobile), aka S.P.U.T.U.M.
Unit C: "Thou Shalt Not Pass Light Speed!"
The Eternally Recondite Master Interdictor, Network Attack Legion(TERMINAL)
http://www.sputum.com/
Copyright 1999, Douglas E. Mackall
All Rights Reserved
G. SCARFF
> My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
I was shocked and dismayed by the revelation last December which I agreed to keep
confidential at the time. I enjoyed Laura's friendship and trusted her because
she was close to Stacy Young. She had also worked in Graham Berry's office for a
short time.
> Laura lied about living alone in Madison WI. She never mentioned that one of
> her 3 house mates was a co$ chicago staff member.
When I first met her in Graham's office, she told me that she had considered
moving to LA, but eventually decided on moving to Wisconsin from Chicago. She
also told me that she was the "appointed guardian of the confidential CAN files"
and had a working relationship with Jim Beebe in relation to the files.
> Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
> not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
> involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway.
Why is it "attorney-client privileged" if the info comes from a P.I.? Is there
the intention to sue Laura?
> If you believe
> us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
> destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
> by me about Laura Terepin--a whore who works for scientology.
This revelation has helped to realize just how much pain I have caused others as a
result of my past work with Scientology to destroy CAN and those critical to
Scientology. My heart really goes out to Stacy!!!
Garry
>
>
G. SCARFF
> >Does Laura have the money to file a suit? If not, she just have to live
> >with it. Maybe Bob counts on that....
>
> Get real. Why should Bob libel a completely innocent person? Kindof "I
> haven't been in the news much, so I'll take a random volunteer and claim
> she is a plant"
Why not ask Laura herself? During a reception for Ursula Caberta last October, Laura
commented about the "posting war" between me and Jim Beebe, saying that she has consistently
read the postings on ARS for a long time but has never posted.
Perhaps, she is reading this now! Laura?
Garry
>
>
Tilman Hausherr
(tall...@storm.ca) wrote:
>What records are you talking about, anyway?
The phone records. Maybe you should read Bob Minton's post.
>>Yeah, and maybe everyone who finds his pet dead on the doorstep should
>>also arrange the pet to be scanned. After all, by your rules of
>>evidence, we don't really know that Stacy is running a cat shelter.
>>Maybe she is actually living in Manhattan in a one room apartment.
>
>We've seen a hell of a lot more evidence of the cat shelter. We've seen
>pictures of cats. We've heard from numerous people who have been to Vashon and
>seen the cats. We've seen the shelter on various news segments about Stacy and
>Vaughn's harassment. I think *I*, for one, can say that I have seen enough
>evidence to convince me that there are, indeed, cats, and Stacy is running a
>shelter for them.
That gives me an idea. Next time FACTNet finds something that it
suspects you or Deana (and the third one - not sure who it is) won't
believe, *Stacy* will announce it and not Bob.
>When will it become part of the court record? Is this going to be brought
>forward in the FACTnet case? If Bob can't show the evidence to anyone, I
>really don't see how it would be much use in a court case.
I guess that FACTNet is withholding it from the public now so that
scientology is wondering how much his PIs got. It will of course be
public if used in the court case. We'll have to wait and see. You will
just have to accept that not every critic copies you every document. You
should admit to yourself that no critic has the obligation towards you.
Tilman
e...@some.where
ma...@bernie.us-inc.com (Bernie) wrote:
> Why didn't you send evidence to CK despite the fact that she asked for
> them repeatedly? To make allegations against someone close to her and
> then leave her hanging isn't very charitable. Why do you prefer to
> post "proofs" to ars rather than first checking them with CK? If you
> can't provide your proofs because they are client privilege or were
> obtained illegally, then why do you even start out with this in
> public?
as if you, of all people, would care about "being charitable to ck".
this whole post of yours makes me puke. stirring the shit again, are
we?
ef
Dr. Benjamin Wog
>Okay sounds pretty damning. But she was a former christian cult member,
>right? How in the world did she get into Scientology® after volunteering
for
>CAN?
Wasn't Gary Scarff pretending to be a victim of Jonestown when he
infiltrated CAN?
It doesn't seem implausible at all that she could have been undercover for
years. It took a couple years for the FBI to discover Operation Snow White
under their own noses.
I will consider Laura innocent until proven otherwise but it is not an
impossibility.
Ishmael
Hash: SHA1
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:09:51 -0500, "John M. Vreeland (Vreejack)"
<jmv...@infi.net> wrote thusly:
}
}
}Bob Minton wrote:
}
}> My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
}
}You sound like Deana Marie Holmes. Please stop trying to sink to her
level.
}
}[heresay evidence snipped]
}
}Okay sounds pretty damning. But she was a former christian cult
member,
}right? How in the world did she get into ScientologyŽ after
volunteering for
}CAN? Was she always a scientologist? This kind of deep-cover work
is spooky.
}How can someone keep two diametricaly opposed ideas in their head
like that?
Hopefully more details on Ms. Terepin's espionage can be revealed in
time. I agree, Vreejack, someone who can be such a mole is spooky. I
can't imagine trying to juggle such a diametric opposition myself.
It's my guess that Terepin is someone who was recruited to fill a
unique role and thereafter to be discarded.
There is a precedent for this tactic within the twisted workings of
OSA, to wit, Mr. Gary Scarff. If you're a horror fan then you'll
enjoy the reading to be found at
http://student.twi.tudelft.nl/~s075104/scarff.txt and if those aren't
scary enough there are more at
http://www.xenu.org/factnet/SCN/FILES/SCARFF/
This files contain portions of the 17-day deposition that took place
in the Summer of 1993. It's clear from Scarff's sworn testimony that
OSA's intention was to use him for a series of tasks, then to do away
with him when he was no longer of any use. It appears from Gary's
testimony that OSA'a "ideal scene" was to have Gary kill Cynthia
Kisser by cutting the brake lines on her car and after verifying that
she was dead he was to blow his brains out.
I know that there are those who would discredit anything that came
from Mr. Scarff, but to echo the question put by other's in this
thread: if he lied, then why didn't they sue him or see that he was
prosecuted for perjury?
The main point here is that Scarff's deposition gives an insight into
how someone gets recruited and manipulated by OSA for a deep cover and
highly complex operation.
}So, Bob, are you going to start running ScientologyŽ-style sec
checks?
It's been discussed and I've already told Bob that I would be happy to
be FACTNet's lead sec checker.
Pick up the cans please... >:^/
Ishmael
P.S. Note my new signature file ;)
}Vreejack
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=2cxo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
**************** Meet me in Clearwater, December 5th, 1999. ****************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Doubts of all things earthly, and intuitions of some things heavenly; this
combination makes neither believer nor infidel, but makes a man who regards
them both with equal eye.--Herman Melville
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.offlines.org/my_essay.html
Boudewijn van Ingen
>My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
I resent you calling anyone that critises you names. Once again I
think you demonstrate your bad judgement here, Bob.
>If you have months of circumstantial evidence that make you wonder about the
>veracity of a persons motivations what do you do?
Tell me what I should do, Bob? I haven't been in that situation, you
know? In fact, I *still* haven't seen any "evidence". So what do you
think I should do?
> We hired some PI's with
>impecable credentials to check up on a few points about Laura.
Good for you. (Who are the "We", BTW?)
>Laura lied about living alone in Madison WI. She never mentioned that one of
>her 3 house mates was a co$ chicago staff member.
Could it be that she didn't know? (Speculating about unverifyable
claims is just too easy...)
>Laura cell phones were billed to a Hollywood, CA private investigator who
>seemingly had at least 13 other phones billed to him that were linked to co$
>operatives.
I assume you have had her interrogated how that came about? You do
have the bills to prove this, have you? And you also have proof of
these people's link to $cientology, don't you?
>Laura's boyfriend, who I went dancing with in SFO with Stacy and the whore,
>works for the same PI who handled the phones.
Did you do all the investigating yourself, or just this bit? Do you
have the "paper trail" to prove this working relationship?
>And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
>records.
What phone number did she call daily?
>Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
>not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
>involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway.
In what legal case will this "evidence" show up, exactly?
If you're so sure about this "evidence" that you even find it suitable
to ventilate your accusations on a worldwide public forum, could you
please tell the world the reasons that you must have for witholding
the accompanying "evidence" that is at the basis of these accusations?
Is there any law -that I'm not aware of- in the US that prevents you
from publicizing evidence as soon as you get it? Would publicizing any
of this put any possible legal claim in jeopardy in any way? Please
explain that to me...
> If you believe
>us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
>destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
>by me about Laura Terepin--a whore who works for scientology.
I will not ever say I was not warned about the activities $cientology
engages in to undermine their critics. But on the other hand, I will
also never "believe" anything without having the evidence. I like to
practice what $cientology's publicity campaigns teach: "think for
yourself". That practice excludes "taking your word for it", I'm
sorry.
>It was extremely difficult for Stacy to believe that for a third time
>scientology had run a plant in on her. It really hurts to be betrayed so
>badly.
I'm very intrigued by this "third time" bit. Any documentation for the
other two times? (Sorry if I missed it.)
>But Stacy has no doubt about Laura after seeing incontrovertible evidence.
She must be in a "priviliged" position, to have seen that.
>Cynthia Kisser is also having a difficult time accepting the reality of having
>worked in CAN with a scientology plant for so long.
Perhaps that is at least a bit your own fault too??
> I regret that Cynthia
>dismissed allegations about Laura that were made years ago by at least one CAN
>employee.
I hate to ask this, but were these allegations just as well documented
as your allegations right now?
> If she had listened then, maybe CAN would still be around today.
Yeah, riight. If only we had been able to listen to Bob Minton,
everything would have been better...
>We do not intend the same fate to befall FACTNet.
I do not. However, I have some grave doubts about those "Dorian" pages
that (alledgedly, I haven't looked at them myself yet) seem to have
appeared at their web-site. (If only people had listened to me *now*,
in a couple of years things would've looked less bleak....)
>Bob Minton,
>FACTNet Director
Bob, allow me to give you some well-meant advice.
As you've acknowledged this is a "war". In fact it is a war that is
being fought on several "fronts". But from my vantage point, the most
important "front" is the "information" front. That part of a "war" is
often referred to as "propaganda" and if it is in the context of
regular busyness (which is also kind of a continuing war) as "PR".
Your effort in this "war" has been tremendous, apparently. However
-again from my vantage point- you have been missing some essential
opportunities in which you could have won battles on precisely *that*
"front". In stead of rallying people behind you, your efforts seem to
succeed in dividing the ranks.
Indeed I think you might need to employ some sort of "PR" professional
if you feel you can't come up with the sort of "common sense" that is
needed to deal with the mayor public campaign (and don't you dare
underestimating a.r.s.) you are trying to embark upon.
Please realize the "an eye for an eye" doesn't work here, because
$cientology "is not a turn the other cheek" "religion". Don't even
attempt to fight them with their own means. In fact, don't fight them
at all. Help them expose themselves to the public. Don't let your own
inability to face public scrutiny stand in the way of that, please?
Groeten,
Boudewijn, Kox.
"I guarantee you that isn't true," said Mike Rinder, a top official for Scientology
Boudewijn van Ingen
wrote:
>In article <782kts$1b0...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>tall...@storm.ca <tall...@storm.ca> wrote:
>>In article <36a5c25...@news.snafu.de>, til...@berlin.snafu.de
>>(Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>>>In <36a78268...@enews.newsguy.com>, mir...@newsguy.com (Deana
>>>Marie Holmes) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:53 GMT, bobm...@cultofscientology.net (Bob
>>>>Minton) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
>>>>
>>>>Where's your evidence, Bob? You were real good about showing it to
>>>>Cynthia Kisser. (In other words, you DIDN'T.)
>>>
>>>Hey - what he presented should be enough for you and me.
>>
>>It's not. And *I* decide what's enough for me, not you, and not Minton.
>
>It would be enough, perhaps, *if* Minton's track record was flawless. But
>with the Dorian stuff, his record is rather less than stellar.
>
>>>I would agree
>>>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP.
>>
>>It's been a month. She's still waiting.
>
>This is particularly troubling.
>
>But what motivation would Bob Minton or Stacy Brooks have for lying about
>this? What are the possible scenarios here, and which one best fits the
>evidence we do have (that evidence being that Minton and Brooks have made
>particular claims)?
>
>If the claimed evidence is never produced for the benefit of Cynthia
>Kisser or anyone else, then I'd say this is another Dorian-like hit
>against their credibility.
Please don't start speculations along this line. Just wait.
M. Ouimette
wrote:
>Bob Minton <bobm...@cultofscientology.net> wrote:
>: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>: Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
>: not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
>: involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If you believe
>: us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
>: destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
>: by me about L**** T******--a whore who works for scientology.
>
>Well folks, there you have it. Bob, in a PGP signed msg said something
>which (if untrue) would ruin the reputation of this person. This is such
>an open and shut case, and Bob has so much $$$$ that I would expect a suit
>to be filed in about ten minutes from now *unless* what he says is true.
>
>Can anyone find a flaw in my logic? (I am asking for help here).
No, you've got a point. Bob has definitely raised a beacon here that
will have to be answered - but I'm not even going to try tho call this
one. Things are getting just plain WEIRD.
Ermine!
Spiritual Research Workgroup
>>Where's your evidence, Bob? You were real good about showing it to
>>Cynthia Kisser. (In other words, you DIDN'T.)
>
>Hey - what he presented should be enough for you and me. I would agree
>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP. But don't expect
>Bob to post personal phone records right here. I am fully satisfied with
>Bob's latest post. I hope that this will play a role in the FACTNet and
>CAN trials. Ford Greene and Michael Flynn scored big after they "only"
>caught someone going through garbage.
>
>If Laura isn't a plant - why does she call OSA every day, why does she
>live with a clam staffer?
I think Deana's point was that Bob CLAIMED these things but
didn't prove them. If I wrote today that I saw you come out
of DM's office together with DM, both naked and in a position
which is even better than what Garry visualizes in his most
juicy fantasies, you would ask for some proof too, right?
There is a deep wish in us that what we read in people's posts
might be the truth. We hope that we can believe in their
basic goodness. We WANT to believe in their basic goodness.
But it's a fact that this basic goodness has been buried
deeply in some individuals, and they play with words, play
with the truth, play with ourselves as they please.
Heidrun Beer
Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
http://www.sgmt.at
Bernie
>In article <36bcc785....@enews.newsguy.com>,
>ma...@bernie.us-inc.com (Bernie) wrote:
>
>> Why didn't you send evidence to CK despite the fact that she asked for
>> them repeatedly? To make allegations against someone close to her and
>> then leave her hanging isn't very charitable. Why do you prefer to
>> post "proofs" to ars rather than first checking them with CK? If you
>> can't provide your proofs because they are client privilege or were
>> obtained illegally, then why do you even start out with this in
>> public?
>
>as if you, of all people, would care about "being charitable to ck".
Why not?
>this whole post of yours makes me puke.
Keep a bucket ready then.
>stirring the shit again, are we?
I wear my special ars asbestos suit especially equipped with
ars-fitted oxygen mask - so I don't smell anything.
Thanks for letting me know that it stinks :-)
Mark Styles
>>>>I would agree
>>>>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP.
>>>
>>
>>why don't you have the records yourself?
>
>There is her word. Do you doubt that? Anyway, Stacy confirmed that she had
>given Cynthia Kisser 'the means of verifying the information.' What she didn't
>mention is that it was a dead end.
Her word? So it's her word against Bob/Stacy's word.
I thought you wanted evidence?
Mark.
Religious tolerance is an oxymoron.
http://www.lambic.co.uk
roger gonnet
Bob Minton wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
I've no reasons to get doubts on your allegations, Bob; this said, you
may know that "arscc" (wdne) is not that easily convinced without any
form of proofs.
Between the good reasons to post (even individually, on mail) some
proofs, there could be the fact that the analysis of those proofs by
others could lead to cross-checking some of the facts in them, and to be
able to dismantly some 3d party OSA's op.
roger
>
> My my! OSA's friends seem pretty sensitive about Laura Terepin.
>
> If you have months of circumstantial evidence that make you wonder about the
> veracity of a persons motivations what do you do? We hired some PI's with
> impecable credentials to check up on a few points about Laura.
>
> Laura lied about living alone in Madison WI. She never mentioned that one of
> her 3 house mates was a co$ chicago staff member.
>
> Laura cell phones were billed to a Hollywood, CA private investigator who
> seemingly had at least 13 other phones billed to him that were linked to co$
> operatives.
>
> Laura's boyfriend, who I went dancing with in SFO with Stacy and the whore,
> works for the same PI who handled the phones.
>
> And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
> records.
>
> Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
> not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
> involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If you believe
> us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
> destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
> by me about Laura Terepin--a whore who works for scientology.
>
> It was extremely difficult for Stacy to believe that for a third time
> scientology had run a plant in on her. It really hurts to be betrayed so
> badly.
> But Stacy has no doubt about Laura after seeing incontrovertible evidence.
>
> Cynthia Kisser is also having a difficult time accepting the reality of having
> worked in CAN with a scientology plant for so long. I regret that Cynthia
> dismissed allegations about Laura that were made years ago by at least one CAN
> employee. If she had listened then, maybe CAN would still be around today.
>
> We do not intend the same fate to befall FACTNet.
>
> Bob Minton,
> FACTNet Director
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0.2
James J. Lippard
M. Ouimette <erm...@aimnet.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:55:18 GMT, Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>>: not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
>>: involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If
>you believe
>>: us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work
>trying to
>>: destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
>>
>>Well folks, there you have it. Bob, in a PGP signed msg said something
>>which (if untrue) would ruin the reputation of this person. This is such
>>an open and shut case, and Bob has so much $$$$ that I would expect a suit
>>to be filed in about ten minutes from now *unless* what he says is true.
>>
>>Can anyone find a flaw in my logic? (I am asking for help here).
>
>No, you've got a point. Bob has definitely raised a beacon here that
>will have to be answered - but I'm not even going to try tho call this
>one. Things are getting just plain WEIRD.
"Sue or it's true" is a pretty unreliable principle for gaining truths.
There are lots of reasons someone wouldn't want to get involved in
litigation to defend themselves (e.g., it could bring more unwanted
attention to the claims, it could violate religious principles, it could
be too expensive and time consuming, the claims could be considered too
absurd for anyone to take seriously anyway, it could be easier or more
effective to simply present counter-evidence, etc.). In most cases where
I've seen the "sue or it's true" argument made, the person using that
argument has been the one with the unfounded position. (One
example--Australian geology professor Ian Plimer charged the Creation
Science Foundation with "financial fraud", then claimed that it must be
true since they didn't sue him. For the full story, see
http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/hnta.html
http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/hntr.html
http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/plimer-book.html
Other examples are frequently published in the tabloids.)
Arguments against suing for libelous Usenet postings may also be found in
Mike Godwin's book, _Cyber Rights_.
tall...@storm.ca
>tall...@storm.ca (tall...@storm.ca) rambled:
>>>>>I would agree
>>>>>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP.
>>>>
>>>>It's been a month. She's still waiting.
>>>
>>>There is no evidence for this. You just say it. If you "know" so much,
>>>why don't you have the records yourself?
>>
>>There is her word. Do you doubt that? Anyway, Stacy confirmed that she had
>>given Cynthia Kisser 'the means of verifying the information.' What she didn't
>
>>mention is that it was a dead end.
>
>Her word? So it's her word against Bob/Stacy's word.
>I thought you wanted evidence?
>
Actually, it's her word, with Stacy's earlier confirmation in this very thread
- or possibly its sister thread - versus what actually happened.
Stacy and Cynthia agreed that the PI would be authorized to give Cynthia the
evidence she required. The trouble is that Stacy and Cynthia have a different
defintion of 'evidence'. Stacy seems to believe that a statement - from her,
from Bob, from the PI - is evidence. Words aren't evidence. Evidence would be
copies of these phone records that show the 'daily calls to OSA in LA' that
Bob has claimed was the clincher in proving this woman a "whore for
scientology."
Since then, Bob has said we will never see that evidence. Without something
more than Bob's word, I don't see how Cynthia - nor me, nor a number of other
people - can be convinced that this is anything more than another one of Bob's
wild claims, rather like Dorian.
When the CoS makes wild claims, and refuses to back them up with any sort of
evidence, critics here fall all over themselves to point that out, as well
they should. That's what being a critical thinker is all about. But it's
simply ludicrious for Bob to expect that these same standards of evidence
don't apply to him, simply because he's the self-styled Public Enemy Number
One of the CoS.
K
gerry armstrong
wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:55:18 GMT, Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Bob Minton <bobm...@cultofscientology.net> wrote:
>>: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>
>>: Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
>>: not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
>>: involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If you believe
>>: us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work trying to
>>: destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
>>: by me about L**** T******--a whore who works for scientology.
>>
>>Well folks, there you have it. Bob, in a PGP signed msg said something
>>which (if untrue) would ruin the reputation of this person. This is such
>>an open and shut case, and Bob has so much $$$$ that I would expect a suit
>>to be filed in about ten minutes from now *unless* what he says is true.
>>
>>Can anyone find a flaw in my logic?
Yes. If this is an op, and everything so far indicates it is, one
could equally expect that a suit be filed against Bob because it *is*
true. Don't forget that the stated purpose of suing is to harass. And
don't forget that the unstated, real purpose of the suit is intel.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>(I am asking for help here).
>
>No, you've got a point. Bob has definitely raised a beacon here that
>will have to be answered - but I'm not even going to try tho call this
>one. Things are getting just plain WEIRD.
>
>Ermine!
>
JimDBB
>From: "G. SCARFF" <gar...@earthlink.net>
>Date: 1/20/99 12:07 AM Central
> Get real. Why should Bob libel a completely innocent person? Kindof "I
>> haven't been in the news much, so I'll take a random volunteer and claim
>> she is a plant"
Gaarry Scarff wrote:
>Why not ask Laura herself? During a reception for Ursula Caberta last
>October, Laura
>commented about the "posting war" between me and Jim Beebe, saying that she
>has consistently
>read the postings on ARS for a long time but has never posted.
>Perhaps, she is reading this now! Laura?
I would like to comment on this and Garry's previous post. First: I did
engage in a vicious posting war with Garry Scarff. I found myself turning down
a dark path that I had not intended. I finally woke up and apologized to
Garry. He in turn apologized to me.
That experience, for me, sheds some light on what is going on with the
disturbing Laura--Bob Minton exchange. It is very easy to get suspicious and
even paranoid in this movement to expose the crimes and frauds of the
scientology cult.
I share Garry's dismay at the allegations that have been made about Laura. I
am completely turned around about this whole thing. At the same time, I feel
that Bob Minton and Stacy are sincere but been caught up in the same suspicious
and accusatory void that I got ensnared with in my flame with Garry. I
believe Bob to be very wrong in the vicious way that he presented
unsubstansiated allegations.
Laura is going to issue a statement and. I will have more to say. For now I
must say that I am impressed and thankful for the outpouring of support for
Laura from the very alert and caring people on the ARS. Laura called me
yesterday morning , crying her heart out. These were not fake tears. She said
that only the support from Cynthia Kisser and the ARSers got her through the
night.
I completely support Cynthia Kisser's staatement on this matter.
Jim Beebe
tall...@storm.ca
James J. Lippard
In article <36b07f46...@news.ncal.verio.com>,
M. Ouimette <erm...@aimnet.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:55:18 GMT, Keith Henson <hkhe...@netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Bob Minton <bobm...@cultofscientology.net> wrote:
>>: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>
>>: Jesse and Stacy will provide more details of Laura's activities but you will
>>: not see copies of phone records, names, ss#, DOB, etc for all the people
>>: involved--it is all attorney client privileged material anyway. If
>you believe
>>: us just take it as a warning that scientology is always hard at work
>trying to
>>: destroy their enemies. If you don't believe us, don't say you were not warned
>>: by me about L**** T******--a whore who works for scientology.
>>
>>Well folks, there you have it. Bob, in a PGP signed msg said something
>>which (if untrue) would ruin the reputation of this person. This is such
>>an open and shut case, and Bob has so much $$$$ that I would expect a suit
>>to be filed in about ten minutes from now *unless* what he says is true.
>>
>>Can anyone find a flaw in my logic? (I am asking for help here).
>
>No, you've got a point. Bob has definitely raised a beacon here that
>will have to be answered - but I'm not even going to try tho call this
>one. Things are getting just plain WEIRD.
"Sue or it's true" is a pretty unreliable principle for gaining truths.
Tilman Hausherr
Research Workgroup) wrote:
>I think Deana's point was that Bob CLAIMED these things but
>didn't prove them. If I wrote today that I saw you come out
rather, he didn't prove them to *Deana*. It is simply a "why didn't they
invite me to their party" attitude.
Ishmael
Hash: SHA1
On 20 Jan 1999 18:46:28 GMT, jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote thusly:
The first question on my mind is why isn't Ms. Terepin talking to Bob
or Stacy or someone at FACTNet? She calls Jim crying (ostensibly)
about the horrible allegations which Jim had no part in making nor was
he involved in Terepin's alledged espionage. It doesn't make much
sense to me.
And why her delay in making a statement in her defence? The sooner
the better, no?
Ishmael
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0.2
iQA/AwUBNqZKhtm0/DmxG7WVEQI9QwCeJHllcyW0/ufmGfLlDSkvy1BeavoAn28W
DPxzcWxShdE/5JZ+s2c7uOiD
=a6AM
Karin Spaink
> If Laura isn't a plant - why does she call OSA every day, why does she
> live with a clam staffer?
Perhaps CoS has been running a plant on _her_. Perhaps it
was the alleged staffer she shared an appartment with who
phoned OSA, not she. Sometimes the truth is friendlier than
you fear it might be.
Also, I must say that 'm _very_ relieved to read something
more than just unexplained allegations. If you accuse
somebody personally and disclose their identity, saying:
'explanations will follow later', it won't do. Not at all.
groet,
Karin Spaink
- I write, therefore I am:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink
Enzo Piccone
>
> On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:13:29 GMT <e...@some.where> wrote:
>
> >In article <36bcc785....@enews.newsguy.com>,
> >ma...@bernie.us-inc.com (Bernie) wrote:
> >
> >> them repeatedly? To make allegations against someone close to her and
> >> then leave her hanging isn't very charitable. Why do you prefer to
> >> post "proofs" to ars rather than first checking them with CK? If you
> >> can't provide your proofs because they are client privilege or were
> >> obtained illegally, then why do you even start out with this in
> >> public?
> >
>
> Why not?
>
> >this whole post of yours makes me puke.
>
> Keep a bucket ready then.
>
> >stirring the shit again, are we?
>
> I wear my special ars asbestos suit especially equipped with
> ars-fitted oxygen mask - so I don't smell anything.
>
> Thanks for letting me know that it stinks :-)
ROFL. Good one, Bernie!
E
--
Note: Correct e-mail address is en...@ermes.it.
"My Aunt Prissy said I could choose anything I liked, because I had
grown to be such a fine strong boy. I chose the two china dogs on the
mantelpiece. They are on my mantelpiece at this moment, listening with
their long ears to every word I am writing down. I like my two china
dogs. When I write down anything wicked, one of them look very serious;
but the other one, he wink." From the novel, ~The Book of Ebenezer Le
Page~, by G. B. Edwards.
James J. Lippard
>styles...@lambic.co.uk (Mark Styles) wrote:
>>tall...@storm.ca (tall...@storm.ca) rambled:
>>>>>>I would agree
>>>>>>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's been a month. She's still waiting.
>>>>
>>>>There is no evidence for this. You just say it. If you "know" so much,
>>>>why don't you have the records yourself?
>>>
>>>There is her word. Do you doubt that? Anyway, Stacy confirmed that she had
>>>given Cynthia Kisser 'the means of verifying the information.' What she didn't
>>
>>>mention is that it was a dead end.
>>
>>Her word? So it's her word against Bob/Stacy's word.
>>I thought you wanted evidence?
>>
>
>Actually, it's her word, with Stacy's earlier confirmation in this very thread
>- or possibly its sister thread - versus what actually happened.
>
>Stacy and Cynthia agreed that the PI would be authorized to give Cynthia the
>evidence she required. The trouble is that Stacy and Cynthia have a different
>defintion of 'evidence'. Stacy seems to believe that a statement - from her,
>from Bob, from the PI - is evidence. Words aren't evidence. Evidence would be
>copies of these phone records that show the 'daily calls to OSA in LA' that
>Bob has claimed was the clincher in proving this woman a "whore for
>scientology."
Testimonial evidence is evidence. It's of a different kind than phone
records, but it is evidence nonetheless. Even a document is a form of
testimony, by the way. It can often be faked more easily and convincingly
than testimony, since it can't be asked questions.
James J. Lippard
JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> wrote:
>Laura is going to issue a statement and. I will have more to say. For now I
>must say that I am impressed and thankful for the outpouring of support for
>Laura from the very alert and caring people on the ARS. Laura called me
>yesterday morning , crying her heart out. These were not fake tears. She said
>that only the support from Cynthia Kisser and the ARSers got her through the
>night.
This is evidence (testimonial evidence again, and evidence that I accept)
that Laura has clearly not "flown the coop" as some have claimed.
JimDBB
>From: lip...@primenet.com (James J. Lippard)
>JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Laura is going to issue a statement and. I will have more to say. For now
>I
>>must say that I am impressed and thankful for the outpouring of support for
>>Laura from the very alert and caring people on the ARS. Laura called me
>>yesterday morning , crying her heart out. These were not fake tears. She
>said
>>that only the support from Cynthia Kisser and the ARSers got her through the
>>night.
>
>This is evidence (testimonial evidence again, and evidence that I accept)
>that Laura has clearly not "flown the coop" as some have claimed.
>--
>Jim Lippard lippard@(primenet.com discord.org ediacara.org)
>Phoenix, Arizona
In fact I have read Laura's statement and it is a very good one. But it was
written before the sick and degraded post from Jessie Prince. I have urged her
to put it out but she may be too devastated now to do anything.
JimDBB
Rob Clark
>til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>> If Laura isn't a plant - why does she call OSA every day, why does she
>> live with a clam staffer?
DOES she though? and DID she? i have seen not a SPECK of evidence, much less
convincing evidence. i have seen a lot of CLAIMS of forthcoming evidence,
followed by "neener neener you can't have it" games. i have also seen a couple
wild blow-job stories which also fail to be entirely convincing, comments about
catfish-pussies and the like.
somehow i fail to be convinced by this wild hand-waving and sleaze-mongering.
>Perhaps CoS has been running a plant on _her_. Perhaps it
>was the alleged staffer she shared an appartment with who
>phoned OSA, not she. Sometimes the truth is friendlier than
>you fear it might be.
>Also, I must say that 'm _very_ relieved to read something
>more than just unexplained allegations. If you accuse
>somebody personally and disclose their identity, saying:
>'explanations will follow later', it won't do. Not at all.
i agree, too. this business of denunciations is beginning to remind me of
mccarthy waving about his supposed list of "a zillion communist spies in the
government." mccarthy dissolved and drifted off to drink himself to death
shortly after being called on his evidence.
so far, without EVIDENCE, none of these claims are even worth the electrons
wasted in making the claims on the global internet. without EVIDENCE, this is
all faith-healing bullshit.
and in a situation FAR WORSE than the dorian crap, this stuff is (if false)
hurting an innocent person, who has been so devastated by these accusations that
she has called jim beebe to weep inconsolately as her life is ruined.
i think ruining someone's life in the noisy investigation manner of scientology
requires SERIOUS EVIDENCE. and i don't think that JACK SHIT cuts it.
>groet,
> Karin Spaink
rob
Deana Marie Holmes
Hausherr) wrote:
>In <36ad8793...@newsact.lightlink.com>, in...@sgmt.at (Spiritual
>Research Workgroup) wrote:
>
>>I think Deana's point was that Bob CLAIMED these things but
>>didn't prove them. If I wrote today that I saw you come out
>
>rather, he didn't prove them to *Deana*. It is simply a "why didn't they
>invite me to their party" attitude.
Tilman,
Not hardly.
If you were DAed by Scn, I'd be all over wgert asking for the
evidence.
Why aren't you all over Bob Minton asking for the evidence that Laura
Terepin is an OSA spy?
Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod Keller)
The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
mir...@xmission.com
Deana Marie Holmes
wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On 20 Jan 1999 18:46:28 GMT, jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote thusly:
>
>The first question on my mind is why isn't Ms. Terepin talking to Bob
>or Stacy or someone at FACTNet? She calls Jim crying (ostensibly)
>about the horrible allegations which Jim had no part in making nor was
>he involved in Terepin's alledged espionage. It doesn't make much
>sense to me.
Makes a lot of sense to me. Why would you call up someone who just
destroyed your reputation online?
Zane
wrote:
>Can anyone find a flaw in my logic? (I am asking for help here).
I have trouble finding fault with that. If Minton posted those sorts
of things about me and they weren't true I would go after him with
everything I could muster (uh, that would be three outraged posts and
one nasty email or something like that ... nah, I could do better than
that so don't press your luck! <g>)
Zane - KoX, SP4, Club Nine
Free meme innoculations!
Zane
Minton) wrote:
>And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
>records.
Ouch!
I'll read the rest of the responses and see how the wind's blowing
<g>, but my immediate reaction is "holy fuck batman!".
tall...@storm.ca
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On 20 Jan 1999 18:46:28 GMT, jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote thusly:
>
>The first question on my mind is why isn't Ms. Terepin talking to Bob
>or Stacy or someone at FACTNet? She calls Jim crying (ostensibly)
>about the horrible allegations which Jim had no part in making nor was
>he involved in Terepin's alledged espionage. It doesn't make much
>sense to me.
If I were Ms. T, and I had been innocently attacked, I would stay the HELL
away from Bob Minton, Stacy Young, Jesse Prince and the rest of the Flying
Circus. They've done enough damage. Why give them more ammunition? And given
the positive glee with which they've gone about this attack, I wouldn't want
to give them the satisfaction of carrying on it person. I would do exactly
what this woman appears to be doing: I would seek out my friends within the
group who could corroborate my actions, my agenda and my 'loyalty' first and
foremost.
>And why her delay in making a statement in her defence? The sooner
>the better, no?
Why the delay in making the evidence that backs up these allegations
available? The sooner the better, no?
K
Zane
>Laura is going to issue a statement and. I will have more to say. For now I
>must say that I am impressed and thankful for the outpouring of support for
>Laura from the very alert and caring people on the ARS. Laura called me
>yesterday morning , crying her heart out. These were not fake tears. She said
>that only the support from Cynthia Kisser and the ARSers got her through the
>night.
This is getting stranger and fucking stranger with nearly each post.
At this time I admit to being totally confused and without opinion.
But when it's all sorted out, and it will get sorted out one of these
days, someone needs to get the flamethrower from hell jammed up their
ass.
James J. Lippard
Zane <z_thomas#ars#@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:53 GMT, bobm...@cultofscientology.net (Bob
>Minton) wrote:
>
>>And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
>>records.
>
>Ouch!
>
>I'll read the rest of the responses and see how the wind's blowing
><g>, but my immediate reaction is "holy fuck batman!".
Since Laura is contributing here now, at least indirectly, we have means
here of verifying/refuting this with her cooperation, if she can supply
copies of phone records to someone to examine.
The Minton camp should provide the examiner with some dates, times, and
telephone numbers that they allege are on the bills in question, as well
as the telephone number being billed.
If both sides refuse to cooperate, then we won't get anywhere.
If both sides cooperate, we will.
If one side cooperates and the other side refuses to, well, that will be
somewhat instructive in and of itself.
--
Jim Lippard lippard@(primenet.com discord.org ediacara.org)
gerry armstrong
>In article <36a5a444...@news.intra.bt.com>, styles...@lambic.co.uk (Mark Styles) wrote:
>>tall...@storm.ca (tall...@storm.ca) rambled:
>>>>>>I would agree
>>>>>>that it should be shown to CK or CAN's attorneys ASAP.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's been a month. She's still waiting.
>>>>
>>>>There is no evidence for this. You just say it. If you "know" so much,
>>>>why don't you have the records yourself?
>>>
>>>There is her word. Do you doubt that? Anyway, Stacy confirmed that she had
>>>given Cynthia Kisser 'the means of verifying the information.' What she didn't
>>
>>>mention is that it was a dead end.
>>
>>Her word? So it's her word against Bob/Stacy's word.
>>I thought you wanted evidence?
>>
>
>Actually, it's her word, with Stacy's earlier confirmation in this very thread
>- or possibly its sister thread - versus what actually happened.
>
>Stacy and Cynthia agreed that the PI would be authorized to give Cynthia the
>evidence she required. The trouble is that Stacy and Cynthia have a different
>defintion of 'evidence'. Stacy seems to believe that a statement - from her,
>from Bob, from the PI - is evidence. Words aren't evidence. Evidence would be
>copies of these phone records that show the 'daily calls to OSA in LA' that
>Bob has claimed was the clincher in proving this woman a "whore for
>scientology."
Well let's see. Evidence: "Testimony, writings, material objects, or
other things presented to the senses that are offered to prove the
existence or nonexistence of a fact." Cal. Evid. Code cited in Black's
Law Dictionary.
Often you will see the term "parol evidence."
Stacy's statements, although perhaps not everything one would hope for
in the way of evidence are, nevertheless, evidence.
>
>Since then, Bob has said we will never see that evidence. Without something
>more than Bob's word, I don't see how Cynthia - nor me, nor a number of other
>people - can be convinced that this is anything more than another one of Bob's
>wild claims, rather like Dorian.
No, this is completely unlike, for evidentiary and most other
purposes, the Dorian materials.
>
>When the CoS makes wild claims, and refuses to back them up with any sort of
>evidence, critics here fall all over themselves to point that out, as well
>they should. That's what being a critical thinker is all about. But it's
>simply ludicrious for Bob to expect that these same standards of evidence
>don't apply to him, simply because he's the self-styled Public Enemy Number
>One of the CoS.
I doubt that Bob thinks that. And we have all sorts of standards of
evidence for all sorts of situations, even here on ars. Noisy
investigations are part of the "scriptures" of the $cientology cult
because Hubbard found them effective.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
>K
>
Cat O'Blivion
> The first question on my mind is why isn't Ms. Terepin talking to Bob
> or Stacy or someone at FACTNet?
Is this really so hard to understand?
If someone posted my picture to the internet, referred to me repeatedly
as a whore, and made sleazy insinuations about me, I doubt I would
consider myself on speaking terms with them.
Obviously, your mileage varies.
Cat
SP4, KoX
--
Stop the Spam on alt.religion.scientology - http://www.xenu.net
"I dare you, to be real, to touch a flickering flame..."
- Bauhaus -
Tilman Hausherr
Marie Holmes) wrote:
>>rather, he didn't prove them to *Deana*. It is simply a "why didn't they
>>invite me to their party" attitude.
>
>Tilman,
>
>Not hardly.
Oh yes. That is what your posts all say.
>If you were DAed by Scn, I'd be all over wgert asking for the
>evidence.
I should look in dejanews to see whether you asked wgert for evidence
about his scurrilous story that I arranged my ex-girlfriend to be
expelled to Korea. (or something similar, I don't remember the exact
details)
>Why aren't you all over Bob Minton asking for the evidence that Laura
>Terepin is an OSA spy?
Because I do understand that he doesn't show to actual documents to
people as unimportant as me (or you). I do however criticize Bob for not
showing them to Cynthia Kisser. Check your irc logs.
There is the difference. You don't care about this - you care whether
YOU got the papers, and you are angry because he didn't give you a job.
Expecting so was really silly. Especially considering your weak attitude
against scientology bogus threats.
Tilman
Douglas Mackall
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Juergen Hubert wrote:
> Boris Pribich wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> > "NEVER AGAIN" DOES NOT APPLY TO THEM
> >
> > Jews Use Poison Gas Against Palestinian Children
>
> Even if that's true (and I have no reason to believe anything I read on
> Usenet, and even less anything from you), this is about as precise as
> "Christians are bombing Iraquis"...
>
> - Juergen Hubert
"Christians are bombing Iraqis" - basically what it amounts to, isn't it?
Sad, the things done in Jesus' name.
Karin Spaink
> >>And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
> >>records.
> >Ouch!
> >I'll read the rest of the responses and see how the wind's blowing
> ><g>, but my immediate reaction is "holy fuck batman!".
> Since Laura is contributing here now, at least indirectly, we have means
> here of verifying/refuting this with her cooperation, if she can supply
> copies of phone records to someone to examine.
I've looked all over the place but can't find anything that
resembles a statement or contribution by Laura, not even
directly. I may have missed it.
Would you be so kind to repost it?
(posted, and mailed to Jim)
Keith Henson
snip
: i think ruining someone's life in the noisy investigation manner of scientology
: requires SERIOUS EVIDENCE. and i don't think that JACK SHIT cuts it.
Wait a sec Rob. The woman's claimed livelyhood is payments from her
mafia uncle, so whatever happens she isn't going to starve. Now, what is
is that she can't do today which she could do before Bob posted. Why,
work as an *unpaid* volunteer in various lawyer's offices. Hmm. There
may be people around who would pay for that limitation on their lives.
Keith Henson
G. SCARFF
And your hair is so thick , oh so nice,
O'er your back it hangs down,
Such a fine golden brown,
'Tis a shame that it's riddled with lice.
Oh Babs how I longed for your smile,
I waited for such a long while,
But those teeth, brown and green!
And halitosis obscene!
I found my mouth filling with bile.
You had all the visual charms,
But you never washed under your arms,
Never heard of deo-
dorant, had you? Ohn no.
The aroma was doing me harm.
But the final straw, my dear Babs,
Was your pussy, infested with crabs,
There was but one solution,
To this source of pollution...
Now she's buried 'neath those concrete slabs.
Tiddy. [Back to my usual style.]
Martin Hunt
"G. SCARFF" <gar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>When I first met her in Graham's office
If there's been any leaks from Berry's office, Scarff is the
one who's behind it, most likely.
Who found this PI, and who's paying him? Who's he actually working
for? Has he ever worked for Scientology? I'd hire a PI to investigate
this PI; the whole thing sounds like a set-up for Scarff as an OSA
agent, pulling a good person down with some double-curved crapola.
>Why is it "attorney-client privileged" if the info comes from a P.I.? Is there
>the intention to sue Laura?
Wouldn't you be happy? Oh, nice little revelation about her being
a lesbian, Scarff bag; I'm sure she'll appreciate your little leaking
of this to the internet, for fuck's sake.
>This revelation has helped to realize just how much pain I have caused others >as a result of my past work with Scientology to destroy CAN and those critical >to Scientology. My heart really goes out to Stacy!!!
Yeah, I bet - if you had a heart, you cockroach.
You were saying just a few weeks ago how happy you were to see
CAN die, and how content you were with your role in the good
organization's demise. Don't tell me: a change of "heart".
You're selling a lot these days, but some of us will just never
buy from the scarffshop.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Just the FAQs: http://scientologysucks.lron.com
"...you are replying to an off-topic forged message that was posted
by a 'bot. The person whose name appears in the From: header of that
message almost certainly did not post it. Many regulars on a.r.s.,
including me, have been victims of these forgeries.
This appears to be a CoS plot to discredit critics by associating us
with racist and pro-Nazi statements that we did not in fact make."
- Ron Newman
Xapped
> On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:46:15 GMT, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
> Hausherr) wrote:
>
> >In <36ad8793...@newsact.lightlink.com>, in...@sgmt.at (Spiritual
> >Research Workgroup) wrote:
> >
> >>I think Deana's point was that Bob CLAIMED these things but
> >>didn't prove them. If I wrote today that I saw you come out
> >
> >rather, he didn't prove them to *Deana*. It is simply a "why didn't they
> >invite me to their party" attitude.
>
> Tilman,
>
> Not hardly.
>
> If you were DAed by Scn, I'd be all over wgert asking for the
> evidence.
Yeah? When wgert or Ronsamigo calls someone a neo-Nazi, you'll be all
over them asking for evidence? Please consider some self-restraint.
>
> Why aren't you all over Bob Minton asking for the evidence that Laura
> Terepin is an OSA spy?
Bob Minton, arch-enemy of the "church" is on Factnet, arch-enemy of the
"church". He apparently found an OSA spy. Congratulations are in order.
Whether he's right or not, the "church" will be DA'ing him soon enough
with or without any help from critics.
Joe C.
My response to the Scientology attack on Germany is contained in the
documentation on Scientology in German-speaking countries at website:
http://cisar.org
William Barwell
James J. Lippard <lip...@primenet.com> wrote:
>In article <36a988c2...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>Zane <z_thomas#ars#@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>Minton) wrote:
>>
>>>And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
>>>records.
>>
>>Ouch!
>>
>>I'll read the rest of the responses and see how the wind's blowing
>><g>, but my immediate reaction is "holy fuck batman!".
>
>Since Laura is contributing here now, at least indirectly, we have means
>here of verifying/refuting this with her cooperation, if she can supply
>copies of phone records to someone to examine.
>
>telephone numbers that they allege are on the bills in question, as well
>as the telephone number being billed.
>
>If both sides refuse to cooperate, then we won't get anywhere.
>
>If both sides cooperate, we will.
>
>If one side cooperates and the other side refuses to, well, that will be
>somewhat instructive in and of itself.
>
This would work. But may not happen IF legal steps are being considered.
I understand Laura is in contact with some critics and will be posting to
ARS. Well, the question to ask her is, Does she have any thing she wants
to tell us? Note the records, ect. will be showing up in court most
likely.
She will be deposed multiple times most likely and will be heavily
questions about hard evidence that will be waved under her nose.
It will be interesting to see what she can say about all of this, now that
she has caught on that she might very well be very vulnerable legally.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
Boudewijn van Ingen
>>>had
>>>>> done
>>>>> >over the years ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> He did at least one issue each of-
>>>>>
>>>>> Avengers v.1
>>>>> FF v.1
>>>>> Inhumans v.1
>>>>> Creatures on the Loose
>>>>> Marvel Fanfare
>>>>> Marvel Premiere
>>>>> Marvel Two-In-One
>>>>> Power Man
>>>>> Monsters Unleashed
>>>>> Logans Run
>>>>> X-Men Ann 3
>>>>> What If?v.1
>>>>>
>>>>> Perez also did *a bunch* of covers inc.X-Men,Iron
>>>Man,Cap,Nova,Defenders
>>>>> & Ms Marvel.
>>>And Hulk:Future Imperfect.
>>>>
>>>And don't forget his b&w Deadly Hands of Kung Fu issues.
>>>
Perez also did quite a few issues of Fantastic Four v1, and three or
four issues of Marvel Fanfare featuring the black widow.
..
"Now is all we have."
Delenn, "Babylon 5"
**************************************************************
To reply in E-Mail, remove SPAMSUCKS from my address.
Rod Keller
: Rob Clark <xe...@mindspring.com> wrote:
: : i think ruining someone's life in the noisy investigation manner of scientology
She told me she makes her money mowing lawns.
--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher
Black Hat #1 / Expert of the Toilet / CWPD Mouthpiece
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Vision of Destruction
Killer Rod / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully
Rob Clark
>Rob Clark <xe...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>snip
>: i think ruining someone's life in the noisy investigation manner of scientology
>: requires SERIOUS EVIDENCE. and i don't think that JACK SHIT cuts it.
>Wait a sec Rob. The woman's claimed livelyhood is payments from her
>mafia uncle, so whatever happens she isn't going to starve. Now, what is
rather, there are *claims* and *hearsay* that she has claimed such things, all
of which fail the same test as the OSA allegations--ie ZERO evidence.
further one does not need to starve to death to be made utterly miserable.
>is that she can't do today which she could do before Bob posted. Why,
>work as an *unpaid* volunteer in various lawyer's offices. Hmm. There
>may be people around who would pay for that limitation on their lives.
if she is truly dedicated, then such an accusation must cut to the core of what
she sees as important in her life. luckily, it appears cynthia kisser has not
been swayed by these accusations without any foundation of evidence supporting
them.
if this woman IS an OSA plant, then bob is denying kisser important information.
i have heard claims kisser was supposed to be contacted last night and if i hear
nothing about it i assume that is another deadline past and ignored.
>Keith Henson
rob
Rob Clark
>On 20 Jan 1999 18:46:28 GMT, jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote thusly:
>The first question on my mind is why isn't Ms. Terepin talking to Bob
>or Stacy or someone at FACTNet?
if this had been done to me, and it were false, nobody involved would be talking
to *me*. they might, however, be talking to my lawyers.
rob
Deana Marie Holmes
wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Deana Marie Holmes wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:46:15 GMT, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>> Hausherr) wrote:
>>
>> >In <36ad8793...@newsact.lightlink.com>, in...@sgmt.at (Spiritual
>> >Research Workgroup) wrote:
>> >
>> >>I think Deana's point was that Bob CLAIMED these things but
>> >>didn't prove them. If I wrote today that I saw you come out
>> >
>> >rather, he didn't prove them to *Deana*. It is simply a "why didn't they
>> >invite me to their party" attitude.
>>
>> Tilman,
>>
>> Not hardly.
>>
>> If you were DAed by Scn, I'd be all over wgert asking for the
>> evidence.
>
>Yeah? When wgert or Ronsamigo calls someone a neo-Nazi, you'll be all
>over them asking for evidence? Please consider some self-restraint.
>
>>
>> Why aren't you all over Bob Minton asking for the evidence that Laura
>> Terepin is an OSA spy?
>
>Bob Minton, arch-enemy of the "church" is on Factnet, arch-enemy of the
>"church". He apparently found an OSA spy. Congratulations are in order.
"Apparently." No evidence has been shown, unless you count the
"spectral evidence" that has been bandied about on IRC, or the
obscenity-laden "evidence" of Jesse Prince.
>Whether he's right or not, the "church" will be DA'ing him soon enough
>with or without any help from critics.
Frankly, I think the cult is snickering at the flaming demise of any
good sense on the part of Bob Minton.
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
<snip> The B'nai Noach movement is growing by leaps and
>bounds
>everyday, >
What is this?
DC
NYC
('scuse me, I am isolated, living in New York)
James J. Lippard
Karin Spaink <ksp...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>lip...@primenet.com (James J. Lippard) wrote:
>> Zane <z_thomas#ars#@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> >>And the clincher is that daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
>> >>records.
>
>> >Ouch!
>> >I'll read the rest of the responses and see how the wind's blowing
>> ><g>, but my immediate reaction is "holy fuck batman!".
>
>> Since Laura is contributing here now, at least indirectly, we have means
>> here of verifying/refuting this with her cooperation, if she can supply
>> copies of phone records to someone to examine.
>
>resembles a statement or contribution by Laura, not even
>directly. I may have missed it.
>
>Would you be so kind to repost it?
Jim Beebe has been in communication with her by telephone.
fly...@hom.net
>
>
> The first question on my mind is why isn't Ms. Terepin talking to Bob
> about the horrible allegations which Jim had no part in making nor was
> he involved in Terepin's alledged espionage. It doesn't make much
> sense to me.
If you yourself were so horribly attacked wouldn't you also seek out
those that you trust and avoid those delivering the attack?
>
> And why her delay in making a statement in her defence? The sooner
> the better, no?
for it".
>
> Ishmael
FB
--
I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
-Booker T. Washington
fly...@hom.net
>
> On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:56:03 GMT, tall...@storm.ca
> (tall...@storm.ca) wrote:
> >
> >Stacy and Cynthia agreed that the PI would be authorized to give Cynthia the
> >evidence she required. The trouble is that Stacy and Cynthia have a different
> >defintion of 'evidence'. Stacy seems to believe that a statement - from her,
> >from Bob, from the PI - is evidence. Words aren't evidence.
Minton won't cut it.
> >Evidence would be
> >copies of these phone records that show the 'daily calls to OSA in LA' that
> >Bob has claimed was the clincher in proving this woman a "whore for
> >scientology."
>
> Well let's see. Evidence: "Testimony, writings, material objects, or
> other things presented to the senses that are offered to prove the
> existence or nonexistence of a fact." Cal. Evid. Code cited in Black's
> Law Dictionary.
Evidence:
"Any species of proof, or probative matter, legally presented at the
trial of an issue, by the act of witnesses, records, documents,
exhibits, concrete objects, etc., for the purpose of inducing belief in
the minds of the court or jury as to their contention." Taylor v.
Howard, 111 R.I. 527, 304, A.2d. 891, 893
"Testimony, writtings, or material objects offered as proof of an
alleged fact or proplsition. That probative material, legally received,
by which the tribunal may be lawfully persuaded of the truth or falsity
of a fact in issue." People v. Leonard, 207 C.A.2d. 409, 24, Cal. Rptr.
597, 600.
Black's law 6th edition
>
> Often you will see the term "parol evidence."
"Oral or verbal evidence; that which is given by word of mouth; the
ordinary kind of evidence given by witnesses in court. In a particular
sence, and with reference to contracts, deeds, wills, and other
writtings, parole evidence is the same as extraneous evidence or
evidence aliunde."
Ibid.
Statements such as:
"FACTNet, discovered an OSA operative who had been run in on Stacy back
in May 1998 for the express purpose of gathering intelligence on my
activities and Stacy's. OSA was successful. They had unfettered access
to information about me and my whereabouts, Stacy's inner circle of
friends, FACTNet records, Dan Leipold's office, Graham Berry's office
and other juicy bits of info. Not only that, this plant had worked for
the Cult Awareness Network for years and was an intimate friend of
Cynthia Kisser, Craig Branch and a number of others active in the
counter-cult movement."
"Her name is Laura Terepin. She is a whore who works for the devil named
Scientology. Jesse Prince will post details of how we came to discover
her activities and her daily reports to OSA in LA when he leaves
Wellspring in a couple of days."
and other such statements offered as proven and factual should be
substanciated with the same concrete proof for which the statement is
issued.
> >
> >Since then, Bob has said we will never see that evidence. Without something
> >more than Bob's word, I don't see how Cynthia - nor me, nor a number of other
> >people - can be convinced that this is anything more than another one of Bob's
> >wild claims, rather like Dorian.
>
> No, this is completely unlike, for evidentiary and most other purposes, the Dorian
> materials.
This is similar to Dorian in that we have been given nothing more than
"take my word for it" when we ask questions.
> >
> >When the CoS makes wild claims, and refuses to back them up with any sort of
> >evidence, critics here fall all over themselves to point that out, as well
> >they should. That's what being a critical thinker is all about. But it's
> >simply ludicrious for Bob to expect that these same standards of evidence
> >don't apply to him, simply because he's the self-styled Public Enemy Number
> >One of the CoS.
> Noisy investigations are part of the "scriptures" of the $cientology cult
> because Hubbard found them effective.
Hubbard embraced this yes, because it is effective in destroying
innocent people. Haven't we all seen enough of that and seen exactly how
destructive it is? Knowing what we do about this effect, *why*
perpetuate the same and become that which we seek to stop?
FB
>
> (c) Gerry Armstrong
> >
> >K
Ron Newman
Clark) wrote:
> i have heard claims kisser was supposed to be contacted last night and if
i hear
> nothing about it i assume that is another deadline past and ignored.
As of 9:30 pm EST last night, Cynthia Kisser still had not been presented
with any evidence, despite having made three phone calls to Dan Leipold's
office. (Twice she left a recorded message, once she talked to one of
Dan's partners.)
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Bernie
>On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:44:42 GMT, laha...@prairienet.org (Lisa A.
>Hadler) wrote:
>
>>I'm Christian, but having some doubts. More and more, Judaism seems
>>like, well, the faith I'm drawn to. It's hard to explain what I'm
>>feeling, but the Jewish tradition's emphasis on clear ethical systemic
>>thought, and other things, make Judaism attractive to me. It feels like
>>less a human construct than other faiths.
>
>We'd say that's because it's not. <smile> But you should know that
>there are things in Judaism that are less "nice" than others. One of
>the fundamental things involved in Judaism, and certainly in
>converting, is recognition of the fact that the Torah really is from
>God. And that this being the case, we should form our morals and
>ethics on the basis of what God told us in His Torah, rather than the
>other way around.
>
>Religions and religious forms have tried "making God in their own
>image" for millenia. If what appeals to you in Judaism is that it
>seems to conform to your own feelings of morality and ethics, you're
>liable to get very disillusioned when you eventually run across things
>in Judaism that don't.
>
>Only you can really know whether you're open to revising your values
>and ethics if they turn out to be in conflict with Jewish ones, but if
>you're considering converting, honesty demands that you give this
>question serious consideration.
>
>>The thing about Christianity that keeps me from converting thus far is
>>the pacifism in the teachings of Jesus. I do think that if a pacifist
>>world view were lived consistently, the world could be transformed.
>
>Okay. But are you willing to modify that view if you find out that
>God doesn't share it? If not, converting to Judaism isn't something
>you should do. Judaism is a God-centered religion. It's based on the
>basic idea of letting God dictate your actions in a great many areas.
>My partner, for example, is a vegetarian. >>
Hello? You've got a lesbian partner, and you're telling the rest of us that
Judaism is a religion in which God "dictate(s) your actions in a great many
areas"?
What is going on here, Lisa?
If you can shack up with another woman and call yourself "Orthodox", then
why can't the rest of us make our own rules and call ourselves good Jews?
DC
NYC
Zane
>The first question on my mind is why isn't Ms. Terepin talking to Bob
>or Stacy or someone at FACTNet? She calls Jim crying (ostensibly)
>about the horrible allegations which Jim had no part in making nor was
>he involved in Terepin's alledged espionage. It doesn't make much
>sense to me.
What? Are you kidding?
With the kind of crap Minton et al are flinging around there is
obviously no point in her talking to them. That you would think she
should is the thing that makes no sense.
Bernie
wrote:
>Bernie wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:13:29 GMT <e...@some.where> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <36bcc785....@enews.newsguy.com>,
>> >ma...@bernie.us-inc.com (Bernie) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Why didn't you send evidence to CK despite the fact that she asked for
>> >> them repeatedly? To make allegations against someone close to her and
>> >> then leave her hanging isn't very charitable. Why do you prefer to
>> >> post "proofs" to ars rather than first checking them with CK? If you
>> >> can't provide your proofs because they are client privilege or were
>> >> obtained illegally, then why do you even start out with this in
>> >> public?
>> >
>> >as if you, of all people, would care about "being charitable to ck".
>>
>> Why not?
>>
>> >this whole post of yours makes me puke.
>>
>> Keep a bucket ready then.
And if you can't stand the sight of critical questioning, you can
always put the bucket on your head :-)
>> >stirring the shit again, are we?
>>
>> I wear my special ars asbestos suit especially equipped with
>> ars-fitted oxygen mask - so I don't smell anything.
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know that it stinks :-)
>
>ROFL. Good one, Bernie!
At least it amused someone else than just me. I didn't live in vain,
then :-)
Keith Henson
: : : requires SERIOUS EVIDENCE. and i don't think that JACK SHIT cuts it.
: :
: : Wait a sec Rob. The woman's claimed livelyhood is payments from her
: : mafia uncle, so whatever happens she isn't going to starve. Now, what is
: : may be people around who would pay for that limitation on their lives.
: She told me she makes her money mowing lawns.
And she flys around the country to help lawyers fight the cult?
TWACK!! That was the sound of my bogosity meter wrapping the needle
around the stop pin. Keith Henson
Deana Marie Holmes
t r i l l i u m wrote:
my Mandarin speaking S'porean Chinese partner
Dear trillium, would this be your MSSCP?
> ~> home cooking classic is turnip, hum choy and pork or beef soup.
> ~
> ~Recipe?
This looks quite nice. A question though. I am not sure if I know
what you mean by mild Asian type turnips.
Charlie
>
> Umm, a nice clear broth of some sort, chicken or beef depending on what you
> have. If the turnips are the nice mild Asian type, then you can cut them in
> wedges and put directly in the broth. If they're the stronger type, I like to
> steam them separately. Usually I use an equal amount of meat to turnip. I
> leave the meat in big, but thin, slices. Hum choy to taste, I like quite a
> bit. It's not really seasoned because you fish out the pieces of turnip or
> meat and eat them with a dipping sauce and drink the broth. I think this is a
> dish that is more Northern in its origins, but the dipping sauces we use are
> sambals done S'porean style. I don't need to tell you to eat it with steamed
> rice.
>
> regards,
> trillium
--
*****************************************************************
Charles Liam Gifford 32:44:58N
<>< 117:06:33W
USS PORTERFIELD DD682
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/8893
Ishmael
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:04:23 GMT, in article
<36b56bfa...@enews.newsguy.com>, z_thomas#ars#@ix.netcom.com
wrote thusly...
>
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:28:51 GMT, ishma...@yahoo.com (Ishmael)
>wrote:
>
>>The first question on my mind is why isn't Ms. Terepin talking to
Bob
>>or Stacy or someone at FACTNet? She calls Jim crying (ostensibly)
>>about the horrible allegations which Jim had no part in making nor
was
>>he involved in Terepin's alledged espionage. It doesn't make much
>>sense to me.
>
>What? Are you kidding?
Not in the least, it's not even sardonic humor.
>With the kind of crap Minton et al are flinging around there is
>obviously no point in her talking to them. That you would think she
>should is the thing that makes no sense.
I'm basing my statement on what _I_ would do if I knew I had been
falsely accused. If I had _any_ explanations that I believed had the
remotest chance of being accepted by my accusers I would at least try
to give them my side of the story. The last thing that I would do is
disappear and subsequently route my communication through a
sympathetic third party.
What no one has so far considered is that if Laura T. is indeed an OSA
mole than her handlers will do all in their power to turn her blown
cover to their advantage. So far there's a strong case to consider
that OSA is attacking the attackers with a vengeance and enjoying the
division of loyalties that its creating.
Ishmael
>Zane - KoX, SP4, Club Nine
>
>Free meme innoculations!
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Doubts of all things earthly, and intuitions of some things heavenly; this
combination makes neither believer nor infidel, but makes a man who regards
them both with equal eye.--Herman Melville
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
kEvin
JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> wrote:
>In fact I have read Laura's statement and it is a very good one. But it was
>written before the sick and degraded post from Jessie Prince. I have urged her
>to put it out but she may be too devastated now to do anything.
Have you established that the Laura Terepin you know is the same one
whom Jesse accused?
kEvin
waiting for LaVenda
m...@primenet.com
Zane
<19990114074811...@ng113.aol.com>...
><< It's all about this dislike in America to grunge and alternative and
stuff.
>Right
>now, it's RAP GEE ! And when other bands are f*cking way better than the
>rap ones get nominated they try to downplay it. It's not news, I guess
they
>just went over board when grunge was popular, and from one extremity (sp?)
>they went into another.
><<
>
>So....this Inhumans book is pretty good heh?...
Yeah.....
F
Zane
>So far there's a strong case to consider
>that OSA is attacking the attackers with a vengeance and enjoying the
>division of loyalties that its creating.
What a pile of crap! Where's the "strong case"?
fly...@hom.net
>On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:18:07 -0500, Ralf Haring <ra...@duke.edu> wrote:
>
>>Nick Blas wrote:
>>>
>>
>>Tsk tsk tsk. You're forgetting marvel's rules about time travel. You
>>can never ever change your past. Ever. If you go back in time, you
>>create a different reality from your own. The GotG stopped the
>>Martians in another reality, not in their own.
>
>Marvel's "rule" has been altered on their own. When the West Coast
>Avengers went back in time, we saw Hawkeye design the weapons that
>would eventually become Moon Knight's. I think there were other
>instances during that same storyline, but that's the only one the
>springs to mind. Also, there's Age of Apocalypse, which has Legion
>altering time to create the AoA universe. According to Marvel,
>history was actually changed and AoA was not an alternate universe.
>So, at best, Marvel is inconsistent with the time travel policy.
>
Actually, Marvel does have a policy for this kind of thing (though I'm not
sure that it's actually applied consistently), which was (I believe) first
applied in Avengers (first series) # 56. In this story Cap & the Avengers
travel back in time to witness Bucky's death. Despite knowing that he should
not tamper with time, modern Cap is overcome with emotion and attempts to
save Bucky's life. While he fails to awaken Bucky and himself (unconsious on
Zemo's drone plane), he does manage to break their bonds. Bucky and GA Cap
then awaken naturally, and attempt to difuse the bomb.
This story establishes that all of the mainstream MU post - 1945, happens as
a direct result of Cap tampering with time, and hypothesises that after
altering the past, the Avengers travelled forwards in time to an alternate
present where everything was exactly the same except for this one altered
event (which is theroetically possible if you believe that there are an
infinite number of alternate realities- though I would guess extremely
unlikely).
The Guardians (and also the WCA) presumably did exactly the same thing.
Easton Brown.
fly...@hom.net
fly...@hom.net
fly...@hom.net
Bernie
wrote:
>Since Laura is contributing here now, at least indirectly, we have means
>here of verifying/refuting this with her cooperation, if she can supply
>copies of phone records to someone to examine.
>
>The Minton camp should provide the examiner with some dates, times, and
>telephone numbers that they allege are on the bills in question, as well
>as the telephone number being billed.
>
>If both sides refuse to cooperate, then we won't get anywhere.
>
>If both sides cooperate, we will.
>
>If one side cooperates and the other side refuses to, well, that will be
>somewhat instructive in and of itself.
Yes - except that it isn't for Laura to prove her innocence. The ball
is entirely on Minton's camp. As long as he doesn't disclose his
material evidences, he can always claim that they are "under my hand",
and try to unearth some unrelated dirt through "noisy investigation".
Martin Hunt
Some pretty heavy accusations before any evidence is offered,
pictures even posted to abs.
So, let's see a scan of these hypothetically damning phone records
posted to abs; should make up for all the BS and obfuscation and
sensationalism to date about this hypothetical OSA agent, whore,
or whatever she is.
Next time, just give us the facts, OK? Save making a complete ass
of yourself in public, Bob.
Senario #1:
"This whore's an OSA agent, blah blah, and maybe I'll post
something more about it in a couple days if you're nice to me."
Senario #2:
"A PI working for me found that a woman has been calling OSA
every day..."
Guess you're just stupid not to see how #1 would cause people to
react and think, an excusable genetic flaw, perhaps.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Just the FAQs: http://scientologysucks.lron.com
"...you are replying to an off-topic forged message that was posted
by a 'bot. The person whose name appears in the From: header of that
message almost certainly did not post it. Many regulars on a.r.s.,
including me, have been victims of these forgeries.
This appears to be a CoS plot to discredit critics by associating us
with racist and pro-Nazi statements that we did not in fact make."
- Ron Newman
Martin Hunt
bo...@xs4all.nl (Boudewijn van Ingen) wrote:
>Please don't start speculations along this line. Just wait.
Tell it to Bob; next time, he should wait instead of jumping the
gun with the accusations before any evidence is offered up.
Too easy now to just speculate he's covering his ass with a lie,
but I'll try not to think of that.
Cart before the horse.
Martin Hunt
in...@sgmt.at (Spiritual Research Workgroup) wrote:
>There is a deep wish in us that what we read in people's posts
>might be the truth. We hope that we can believe in their
>basic goodness. We WANT to believe in their basic goodness.
>But it's a fact that this basic goodness has been buried
>deeply in some individuals, and they play with words, play
>with the truth, play with ourselves as they please.
Yes, such as by posting long articles under their name and accepting
all credit for them, then stating months later that someone else
wrote them instead.
I hate people who play shitgames like that with me. Hard to trust
them, but I'll try.
Martin Hunt
til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>rather, he didn't prove them to *Deana*. It is simply a "why didn't they
>invite me to their party" attitude.
No, Bob was ass-backwards: he should have posted the evidence first,
and then the heavy accusations against the woman. I suppose he's just
a moron. If I didn't believe he's stupid, I'd have to assume he's an
evil manipulating son-of-a-bitch trying to run some game on us like
"spot the loyalists". Nah; he's just dumb. He fucked up, big time.
If he were to apologize to me or to the critics in general, I'd
forgive him his dumb mistake and we could all move on.
Martin Hunt
til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>>Why aren't you all over Bob Minton asking for the evidence that Laura
>>Terepin is an OSA spy?
>
>Because I do understand that he doesn't show to actual documents to
>people as unimportant as me (or you).
Bob is no more important than anyone else here, Tilman.
Martin Hunt
jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote:
>Laura is going to issue a statement
This should be interesting. I, for one, will give her all the
benefit of the doubt, and tend to believe what she says about
herself over and above whatever Minton and crew have to say
about it, all else being equal.
She's been the target of some heavy accusations by a rich,
powerful, egomaniacal, paranoid, and influential person. She
deserves the benefit of the doubt.
>and. I will have more to say. For now I
>must say that I am impressed and thankful for the outpouring of support for
>Laura from the very alert and caring people on the ARS. Laura called me
>yesterday morning , crying her heart out. These were not fake tears. She said
>that only the support from Cynthia Kisser and the ARSers got her through the
>night.
Bob had better put up or shut up: this sounds little like the
behaviour of an OSA agent to me. Laura, if you're reading this
and you want to talk, my number's 250-380-2025.
I cannot promise to be on your side, but I'm interested in hearing
your defence to these scurrilous and, as yet, unfounded accusations.
>I completely support Cynthia Kisser's staatement on this matter.
So do I; hers was the most sensible thing said yet on this topic.
From someone who has every reason to be paranoid we find - sympathy
and compassion and a reasoned call for evidence.
Bob will go down in flames if he doesn't put up his ante in this;
he will always be remembered as an idiot for posting the heavy
accusations first before offering up even a hint of evidence,
but he'll be remember as more than an idiot if his accusations
don't pan out, and may well end up in a well-deserved defamation
suit. It's not like Laura has had any contact with ars to speak
of until this point in time.
Let's see those scans, Bob.
Martin Hunt
ishma...@yahoo.com (Ishmael) wrote:
>On 20 Jan 1999 18:46:28 GMT, jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote thusly:
>
>The first question on my mind is why isn't Ms. Terepin talking to Bob
>or Stacy or someone at FACTNet? She calls Jim crying (ostensibly)
>about the horrible allegations which Jim had no part in making nor was
>he involved in Terepin's alledged espionage. It doesn't make much
>sense to me.
Yes; when people level vile public accusations against you, the
first thing you do is talk sensibly to them and find out why
they're so upset. You don't phone a friend for some comfort and
support in a moment of anguish. That's perfectly rational.
Stick to your whale, Ishmael; human beings will always remain a
mystery to you.
Deana Marie Holmes
>level Marvel employee has told Newsarama that the crisis the
>freelancers are facing can be solved with one phone call to
>Marvel.
Let me point out that Mike's story is based on reporting by ME for CBG.
>
>YES! Now THAT is exactly what I've been saying, isn't it? THIS is
>what Marvel needed to do, and by god they DID IT! GOOD SHOW!
>Problem Solved. Now, if Gerber can keep them from getting their
>fifty bucks back, everything will be perfect!
Let me also point out that Marvel has been doing this from the beginning of the
alleged "crisis" which was never a crisis in the first place. Let me further
point out that if anyone at the Splash website had bothered to actually CALL
Marvel and ask about this--and apparently they didn't--they would have
discovered there was no "cherry-picking" of the complaint list and no A-list or
B-list of creators. The freelancers who DID get the complaints sent to them
(and BTW, I was able to specifically identify only two of them, the same two
Splash did, Badger and Neary) apparently fell through the cracks when Marvel
requested that the avoidance litigation trustee's counsel remove any
freelancers from the list.
Best, Pat
The words and opinions expressed are those of Patrick Daniel O'Neill and do not
represent the opinions or policies of WIZARD: THE GUIDE TO COMICS.
Warrior
>and then the heavy accusations against the woman. I suppose he's just
>a moron. If I didn't believe he's stupid, I'd have to assume he's an
>evil manipulating son-of-a-bitch trying to run some game on us like
>"spot the loyalists". Nah; he's just dumb. He fucked up, big time.
>If he were to apologize to me or to the critics in general, I'd
>forgive him his dumb mistake and we could all move on.
Bob certainly doesn't owe me (one of "the critics") any apology.
I don't feel that he did anything "ass-backwards".
He posted his evidence.
I don't think he is stupid.
I don't think he's an "evil manipulating sob trying to run
some game on us".
And I don't think that Bob "fucked up, big time".
Warrior (putting on his flame-resistant suit now)
See http://www.entheta.net/entheta/1stpersn/warrior/
Steve A
wrote:
> In article <375fe304....@news.snafu.de>,
> til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>
> >>Why aren't you all over Bob Minton asking for the evidence that Laura
> >>Terepin is an OSA spy?
> >
> >Because I do understand that he doesn't show to actual documents to
> >people as unimportant as me (or you).
>
> Bob is no more important than anyone else here, Tilman.
Ah, but does *he* see it that way? :-)
Seriously, though, I wonder what the reaction would be if Bob had sat
on this information for 6 months, and then told us he knew about it
ages ago. I can see plenty of reasons why he might not want to produce
his source material, but if I were in a position where I might be
vulnerable to "ops" of this nature, I'd be glad to at least have had a
"heads up" on it.
My jury's still out on this.
Steve (just trying to counter some of the more rabid rhetoric that has
reinfested this newsgroup).
--
Steve A, SP4++, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12,
pitiable little Dennie (plD) #1, non-Mintonista.
Banned by Windows 1984 ScienoSitter (2e+isp)
"Where don't they want you to go today?" - http://www.xenu.net