Globe and Mail: Xenu, Pickets and Ethics, oh my!
Gregg Hagglund
pg 3, lower half.
[Headline]
Two-year battle reveals Scientologists as vigorous opponents.
- Oakville man discovers cost of taking on church as protest elicits.
picketing of his home, unsolicited 'visit' to aging parents
{Photo)
Gregg Hagglund left, has been protesting outside the Church of
Scientology's Toronto office for two years, in response,
(Photo)
his home has been the target of picketing by placard-carrying members of
the church, one of whom described Mr. Hagglund as a practising pagan.
TIMOTHY APPLEBY
The Globe and Mail
First came the pickets. Then an odd letter to a Crown attorney. But it
was the unwanted visit to his bewildered, aging parents that really
annoyed Gregg Hagglund, self proclaimed priest of "an obscure New Age
faith."
When the Church of Scientology is attacked, Mr.Hagglund's family and
neighbors have learned to their surprise and dismay, it does not turn the
other cheek.
The result is one of the more bizarre running battles the often
controversial organization has waged since being founded in the 1950s by
the late U.S. science-fiction writer L Ron Hubbard.
In one comer is a small band of critics that include Mr. Hagglund, a
48-year-old newspaper distributor from Oakville, west of Toronto.
In the other is an organization that describes itself as a religion but
which Mr. Hagglund and his friends regard as merely a business.
For two years Scientology's Yonge Street headquarters has been the
target of picketing by Mr. Hagglund and others. His protests have also
taken him to Clearwater, Fla., where Scientology's U.S. parent is facing
criminal charges in the 1995 death of a member.
On the Internet, meanwhile, a flood of and-Scientology messages and
documentsãlargely unread by Scientologists, whose access to cyberspace is
screened by leaders ã is constantly
posted and updated by Mr. Hagglund and others.
Scientology has fought back.
To the astonishment of Mr. Hagglund's neighbours, his home has been
counterpicketed several times by Scientologists who have stuffed leaflets
in mailboxes and paraded along the sidewalk
with signs accusing him of bigotry.
"I couldn't believe it," said Shelly Ferguson, who lives five doors
down. "Gregg had warned us they were going to picket and we'd been
wondering, 'Who's crazier, Gregg or these people?'"
Then the truck rolls up with the pickets, and I went, 'Oh, Gregg's not
nuts. These people are really off the deep end.' "
Then Scientology widened the battleground.
Last May, Mr. Hagglund's 19-year-old son Christopher was arrested on a
drug charge, accused of selling cannabis and hallucination-inducing
psilocybin mushrooms to high-school students.
The charge, which Christopher Hagglund denies, remains before the
courts. In October, an odd wrinkle appeared:
Veteran Toronto Scientologist Peter Ramsay wrote to Halton Crown
attorney Bob Lush, complaining about the older Mr. Hagglund's
anti-Scientology activities and suggesting that his
son's plight might be connected to the fact that his father practises a
religion akin to witchcraft.
Mr. Lush shrugs at the strange letter. "As far as I'm concerned, it's
totally immaterial. It obviously reflected a peeing match going on
between these people for some time."
Then, earlier this month, two Scientologists - Toronto church spokesman
Al Buttnor and Ottawa official Cathie Mann -paid Mr. Hagglund's parents a
visit at their Ottawa home.
Wilma Hagglund, in her 80s, did not let them in. But she was mindful of
Scientology's reputation as a vigorous opponent, and the encounter left
her unnerved.
"I told them that what my son did was his own business and I didn't
want anything to do with it, and they went away."
Why the visit?
"I think you know why," Mr. Buttnor said. "It has to do with hatred."
Ms. Mann who once tried to pay a similar visit to Mr. Hagglund's
brother, said the mission "was to just go and see if we could maybe talk
to Hagglund's parents just to see if we could get a
sense of why he is doing this and if there's some way they could help. It
wasn't to upset them at all, and I felt very bad because Mrs. Hagglund ...
was very upset."
As for the letter to Mr. Lush, Mr. Buttnor says he and the church had
nothing to do with writing it. "Mr. Ramsay is free to do what he wants as
a Canadian citizen. "
Mr. Ramsay, a Scientologist since 1972, did not return phone calls.
The letter accuses Mr. Hagglund of being "a practising pagan," and
adds: "I don't think you would disagree that when a young man is charged
with trafficking in drugs and the charges are
found to be true, that something is awfully wrong!"
Mr. Hagglund acknowledges that he holds unusual religious beliefs. He
and his wife have two businesses legally registered as the Temple At'L'An
and the Masts of White Light, which have
few members and no income. Mr. Hagglund says he had a "personal
revelation" that has become a belief in a benevolent Creator, in
spiritual immortality and in an afterlife.
He traces his dislike for Scientology to what he has heard of other
people's bad experiences with the group, especially with its practice of
"auditing"ãScientology 's central rite, wherein believers
try to purge themselves of harmful past experiences, with the aid of a
device resembling a lie detector.
"I started out [protesting] because I found out that Scientology was
hurting people -its own people - and I wanted to find out why. "
Mr. Buttnor, on the other hand, perceives Mr. Hagglund and his ilk as
mean-minded bigots targeting one of the world's new religions, whose
leaders sometimes liken their situation to that of
Jews in Nazi Germany.
That's not the view of Detective Richard Kijewski of the Toronto Police
Service's hate-crimes unit, long familiar with Scientology's running wars.
Mr. Hagglund's activities thus far involve criticism rather than
hatred, Det. Kijewski said. "According to the definition in the [Criminal]
Code, both groups have a right to demonstrate....
Whether this is going to escalate , I don't know."
{SideBar]
WHAT THEY
BELIEVE
Firm believers in reincarnation, Scientologists hold that traumas
experienced in other lives ãor on other planetsãare obstacles on the path
to enlightenment, exorcised by a therapy-like process
termed auditing.
To critics, that path is an expensive space fantasy created by a
sclence-fiction writer who lost touch with reality.
Central to Scientology belief, though largely unmentioned, is the
legend of galactic ruler Xenu, believed to have precipitated humankind's
ills by an act of mass murder 75 million years ago.
The Xenu story first surfaced publicly in the 1980s in Los Angeles
court documents. Scientology says the material has been grossly
misunderstood.
Controversy is nothing new to Scientology, which says -to the scoffing
of foes -it has millions of members worldwide.
For many years, and in many countries, it has been embroiled in legal
tussles with opponents, who include a number of high-level defectors.
Copyright violations on the Internet, where what Scientology calls its
"sacred texts" have been aired, have been a particular focus.
Scientologists' access to cyberspace is restricted, spokesman Al
Buttnor acknowledged. "There is material on the Internet that people at a
certain level are not supposed to see."
The organization can pursue its critics in other ways. When a Boston
Herald reporter wrote scathingly about Scientology last year, a private
investigator was retained to question the reporter's ex-wife.
In Canada the church was fined $250,000 in 1992 for its role in
espionage operations during the 1970s against the Ontario
Attorney-General's Ministry, the Ontario Provincial Police and the
Royal Canadian Mounted Policeãthe only church ever convicted of a criminal
offence in this country.
In 1994, the group had to pay a record $1.6-million for libeling an
Ontario Crown attorney.
-30-
Gregg Hagglund SP5
Rendered Net Invisible to Participating Victims of Co$ by Co$.
Toronto Picket Reports now at:
<http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8412/index.html>
Steve A
> > "I think you know why," Mr. Buttnor said. "It has to do with hatred."
>
> Yes. We know.
And I bet there was *quite* a scowl on _his_ face when he said it,
too.
--
Steve A, SP4++, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12,
pitiable little Dennie (plD) #1, non-Mintonista.
Banned by Windows 1984 ScienoSitter (2e+isp)
"Where don't they want you to go today?" - http://www.xenu.net
Beverly Rice
> ©The Globe and Mail, February 24, 1999.
> The result is one of the more bizarre running battles the often
> controversial organization has waged since being founded in the 1950s by
> the late U.S. science-fiction writer L Ron Hubbard.
Well, seems the church is noted as "bizarre . . . and still noted
as being found by a science-fiction writer.
> In the other is an organization that describes itself as a religion but
> which Mr. Hagglund and his friends regard as merely a business.
Yep, the more the public learns the more they will see it for
the business it is.
> "I couldn't believe it," said Shelly Ferguson, who lives five doors
> down. "Gregg had warned us they were going to picket and we'd been
> wondering, 'Who's crazier, Gregg or these people?'"
> Then the truck rolls up with the pickets, and I went, 'Oh, Gregg's not
> nuts. These people are really off the deep end.' "
Ah, yes, Co$ members making a real good impression of themselves
and the business they stand for. Right on, Al.
> As for the letter to Mr. Lush, Mr. Buttnor says he and the church had
> nothing to do with writing it. "Mr. Ramsay is free to do what he wants as
> a Canadian citizen. "
This is not true. If a Co$ member writes anything that is published
for the public to read and is not met with the approval of Co$, the
person is brought in and run on ethics.
> Mr. Buttnor, on the other hand, perceives Mr. Hagglund and his ilk as
> mean-minded bigots targeting one of the world's new religions, whose
> leaders sometimes liken their situation to that of Jews in Nazi Germany.
Oh please, Al, read some books and educate yourself. When are the
Co$ members going to realize screaching about being persecuted as
the Jews in Nazi Germany makes them look ignorant, uneducated and
disresepctful.
> WHAT THEY
> BELIEVE
> Central to Scientology belief, though largely unmentioned, is the
> legend of galactic ruler Xenu, believed to have precipitated humankind's
> ills by an act of mass murder 75 million years ago.
Wow, more Xenu, congratulations, Gregg. Once Xenu is well-known,
the NOT's materials will be the next to be discussed and disclosed.
Maybe start a whole new trend to owning dolls.
> Scientologists' access to cyberspace is restricted, spokesman Al
> Buttnor acknowledged. "There is material on the Internet that people at a
> certain level are not supposed to see."
Why not? Not one Co$ member has ever been able to give a real
answer to that question. But I can tell you the answer revolves
solely around money, and the loss of income that would be
generated if Co$ was honest.
Beverly
Brad McFarlane
elr...@cgo.wave.ca (Gregg Hagglund) wrote:
<snip>
>
> Then, earlier this month, two Scientologists - Toronto church spokesman
> Al Buttnor and Ottawa official Cathie Mann -paid Mr. Hagglund's parents a
> visit at their Ottawa home.
>
> Wilma Hagglund, in her 80s, did not let them in. But she was mindful of
> Scientology's reputation as a vigorous opponent, and the encounter left
> her unnerved.
>
> "I told them that what my son did was his own business and I didn't
> want anything to do with it, and they went away."
>
> Why the visit?
>
> "I think you know why," Mr. Buttnor said. "It has to do with hatred."
This has *got* to be the quote of the week:
Q: "Why does Scientology visit relatives of critics?"
A: "It has to do with hatred."
Does Mr. Buttnor realize how what he said could be taken? I sense a picket
placard coming on...
> Ms. Mann who once tried to pay a similar visit to Mr. Hagglund's
> brother, said the mission "was to just go and see if we could maybe talk
> to Hagglund's parents just to see if we could get a
> sense of why he is doing this and if there's some way they could help.
--------------------------------
Actually, they're probably all for helping their son, after this little
episode...
> It wasn't to upset them at all, and I felt very bad because Mrs. Hagglund ...
> was very upset."
I find this ludicrous. If they have a problem with (or questions for) Mr.
Hagglund, why don't they talk to him directly? (Have they tried? If so,
what were the details?) Invite him to an org, agree to meet in public,
whatever. If you have a problem with an individual, you start by going to
*that* individual; doing an end run around the individual to his/her
relatives is cowardly.
> Gregg Hagglund SP5
> Rendered Net Invisible to Participating Victims of Co$ by Co$.
> Toronto Picket Reports now at:
> <http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8412/index.html>
Aloha,
Brad
--
Brad McFarlane
Newbridge Networks Corp.
Kanata, Ont., CANADA
Wulfen - www.total.net/~wulfen/scn/
A spectacularly unsuccessful business, too. Remember, there used to be
three Orgs in Toronto. Now there's one decrepit, downstat Org.
> For two years Scientology's Yonge Street headquarters has been the
>target of picketing by Mr. Hagglund and others. His protests have also
>taken him to Clearwater, Fla., where Scientology's U.S. parent is facing
>criminal charges in the 1995 death of a member.
All the Toronto picket reports for 1997 and 1998 now at:
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8412/
Happy reading. :-)
The charges:
Abuse and/or Neglect of a Disabled Ault, 2nd degree *felony*,
Practicing Medicine Without a Licence, 3rd degree *felony*. Some
'church'.
> On the Internet, meanwhile, a flood of and-Scientology messages and
>documentsãlargely unread by Scientologists, whose access to cyberspace is
>screened by leaders ã is constantly
>posted and updated by Mr. Hagglund and others.
Scientologists net access censored:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/
>
> Scientology has fought back.
In its own inept way, yes. The critical community in Toronto has been
growing, slowly and steadily, thanks in part to Scientology's actions
in 'fighting back'.
> To the astonishment of Mr. Hagglund's neighbours, his home has been
>counterpicketed several times by Scientologists who have stuffed leaflets
>in mailboxes and paraded along the sidewalk
>with signs accusing him of bigotry.
They also trespassed on his lawn. I have Gregg's pictures of the
event, including the picture from the Globe and Mail. They are located
here:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/2158/gregg/
> "I couldn't believe it," said Shelly Ferguson, who lives five doors
>down. "Gregg had warned us they were going to picket and we'd been
>wondering, 'Who's crazier, Gregg or these people?'"
>Then the truck rolls up with the pickets, and I went, 'Oh, Gregg's not
>nuts. These people are really off the deep end.' "
You'd be surprised how many people come to the "Scientologists are
nuts" conclusion because of Scientology's own actions.
> Then Scientology widened the battleground.
>
> Last May, Mr. Hagglund's 19-year-old son Christopher was arrested on a
>drug charge, accused of selling cannabis and hallucination-inducing
>psilocybin mushrooms to high-school students.
>
> The charge, which Christopher Hagglund denies, remains before the
>courts. In October, an odd wrinkle appeared:
>
> Veteran Toronto Scientologist Peter Ramsay wrote to Halton Crown
>attorney Bob Lush, complaining about the older Mr. Hagglund's
>anti-Scientology activities and suggesting that his
>son's plight might be connected to the fact that his father practises a
>religion akin to witchcraft.
Note that Mr. Ramsay here decries Gregg's religion. Note that Gregg
has never decried the Scientology religion (but he has certainly
decried the practices of the Scientology organization). Where's the
Friends of Religious Liberty when you actually need them? Wonder what
they'd think of this letter of Peter Ramsay's? ;-)
Incidentally, Peter Ramsay doesn't have a spamsite. Yes, I did check.
> Mr. Lush shrugs at the strange letter. "As far as I'm concerned, it's
>totally immaterial. It obviously reflected a peeing match going on
>between these people for some time."
>
> Then, earlier this month, two Scientologists - Toronto church spokesman
>Al Buttnor and Ottawa official Cathie Mann -paid Mr. Hagglund's parents a
>visit at their Ottawa home.
Note Al Buttnor, despite the fact that Gregg has made plain in usenet
posts and on his (now defunct) website his reasons for opposing
Scientology's various fraudulent scammy activities, still goes to talk
to Gregg's parents to find out what gives. (At least officially.) Of
course, if you take this visit in the context of nearly 50 years of
intimidation of Dn/Scn critics, Al Buttnor quickly stops looking like
an utter halfwit and starts looking pretty disingenuous.
> Wilma Hagglund, in her 80s, did not let them in. But she was mindful of
>Scientology's reputation as a vigorous opponent, and the encounter left
>her unnerved.
In her '80's and in frail health. How ethical, Al.
> "I told them that what my son did was his own business and I didn't
>want anything to do with it, and they went away."
>
> Why the visit?
>
> "I think you know why," Mr. Buttnor said. "It has to do with hatred."
Note that there is always a police officer present at Toronto pickets,
and also note that hate speech and incitement to hatred is a crime in
Canada. The police officer has at no time told us that we're having
problems with these statutes when we (Toronto critics) picket. So,
again, Al Buttnor is Full Of It (to put it mildly). If there were a
hate crime going on, people would be arrested. Nobody's been arrested,
Al. So where does that leave your assertion?
> Ms. Mann who once tried to pay a similar visit to Mr. Hagglund's
>brother, said the mission "was to just go and see if we could maybe talk
>to Hagglund's parents just to see if we could get a
>sense of why he is doing this and if there's some way they could help. It
>wasn't to upset them at all, and I felt very bad because Mrs. Hagglund ...
>was very upset."
Why don't you ask Gregg "why he is doing this"? Didn't that occur? Or
doesn't the Stupendous LRH Tek include eliminating the obvious
alternatives first?
> As for the letter to Mr. Lush, Mr. Buttnor says he and the church had
>nothing to do with writing it. "Mr. Ramsay is free to do what he wants as
>a Canadian citizen. "
Will the Org Ethics Officer say that if Mr. Ramsay writes a letter
critical of Scientology management to the Globe & Mail?
> Mr. Ramsay, a Scientologist since 1972, did not return phone calls.
Wonder why? Does he perhaps know that his letter is beyond the pale?
> The letter accuses Mr. Hagglund of being "a practising pagan," and
>adds: "I don't think you would disagree that when a young man is charged
>with trafficking in drugs and the charges are
>found to be true, that something is awfully wrong!"
Liar, Ramsey. You lied in this part of your letter. The charges have
not been found to be true in a court of law, which is the only place
it matters. All your postulates won't change that.
> Mr. Hagglund acknowledges that he holds unusual religious beliefs. He
>and his wife have two businesses legally registered as the Temple At'L'An
>and the Masts of White Light, which have
>few members and no income. Mr. Hagglund says he had a "personal
>revelation" that has become a belief in a benevolent Creator, in
>spiritual immortality and in an afterlife.
This is the most I've ever found out about Gregg's religion all at
once. Just as a side point, note Gregg being honest about his beliefs.
Contrast that with the way Scientology tries to hide Xenu.
> He traces his dislike for Scientology to what he has heard of other
>people's bad experiences with the group, especially with its practice of
>"auditing"ãScientology 's central rite, wherein believers
>try to purge themselves of harmful past experiences, with the aid of a
>device resembling a lie detector.
>
> "I started out [protesting] because I found out that Scientology was
>hurting people -its own people - and I wanted to find out why. "
>
> Mr. Buttnor, on the other hand, perceives Mr. Hagglund and his ilk as
>mean-minded bigots targeting one of the world's new religions, whose
>leaders sometimes liken their situation to that of
>Jews in Nazi Germany.
Am I an ilk? Well, I'm hosting the March pickets.. So Gregg will be my
ilk. ;-)
Also, message to Al Buttnor: Pointing out that Scientology does not
tell the truth about its own practices and policies does not
constitute bigotry. Try word-clearing "bigotry" and take some
Holocaust history courses, and come back when you're informed.
> That's not the view of Detective Richard Kijewski of the Toronto Police
>Service's hate-crimes unit, long familiar with Scientology's running wars.
The man who'd be doing the arresting if we were in fact involved in a
hate crime.
> Mr. Hagglund's activities thus far involve criticism rather than
>hatred, Det. Kijewski said. "According to the definition in the [Criminal]
>Code, both groups have a right to demonstrate....
>Whether this is going to escalate , I don't know."
>
>{SideBar]
>
>WHAT THEY
>BELIEVE
>
>Firm believers in reincarnation, Scientologists hold that traumas
>experienced in other lives ãor on other planetsãare obstacles on the path
>to enlightenment, exorcised by a therapy-like process
>termed auditing.
>
> To critics, that path is an expensive space fantasy created by a
>sclence-fiction writer who lost touch with reality.
>
> Central to Scientology belief, though largely unmentioned, is the
>legend of galactic ruler Xenu, believed to have precipitated humankind's
>ills by an act of mass murder 75 million years ago.
http://www.total.net/~wulfen/scn/parody/xenu.htm
> The Xenu story first surfaced publicly in the 1980s in Los Angeles
>court documents. Scientology says the material has been grossly
>misunderstood.
>
> Controversy is nothing new to Scientology, which says -to the scoffing
>of foes -it has millions of members worldwide.
Scoff scoff:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/COS_members.html
> For many years, and in many countries, it has been embroiled in legal
>tussles with opponents, who include a number of high-level defectors.
>Copyright violations on the Internet, where what Scientology calls its
>"sacred texts" have been aired, have been a particular focus.
>
> Scientologists' access to cyberspace is restricted, spokesman Al
>Buttnor acknowledged. "There is material on the Internet that people at a
>certain level are not supposed to see."
>
> The organization can pursue its critics in other ways. When a Boston
>Herald reporter wrote scathingly about Scientology last year, a private
>investigator was retained to question the reporter's ex-wife.
>
> In Canada the church was fined $250,000 in 1992 for its role in
>espionage operations during the 1970s against the Ontario
>Attorney-General's Ministry, the Ontario Provincial Police and the
>Royal Canadian Mounted Policeãthe only church ever convicted of a criminal
>offence in this country.
>
> In 1994, the group had to pay a record $1.6-million for libeling an
>Ontario Crown attorney.
Biggest libel damages in Canada paid by the only criminally convicted
"church" in Canada. How ethical.
>-30-
> Gregg Hagglund SP5
> Rendered Net Invisible to Participating Victims of Co$ by Co$.
>Toronto Picket Reports now at:
><http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8412/index.html>
Wulfen's ANTI-Scientology Website:
http://www.total.net/~wulfen/scn/
Toronto Picket Page:
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8412/
-- Science is a method, not an ideology. --
Fredric L. Rice
Hagglund) wrote:
> For two years Scientology's Yonge Street headquarters has been the
>target of picketing by Mr. Hagglund and others. His protests have also
>taken him to Clearwater, Fla., where Scientology's U.S. parent is facing
>criminal charges in the 1995 death of a member.
Joy! Another Big Win for the crime syndicate -- once again get the
fact of Lisa's death exposed out in public for all to see. Way to go,
Gregg!
> On the Internet, meanwhile, a flood of and-Scientology messages and
>documentsãlargely unread by Scientologists, whose access to cyberspace is
>screened by leaders ã
Another Big Win! Show the public once again that the crime syndicate
isn't willing to allow their victims to think for themselves.
> Scientology has fought back.
>
> To the astonishment of Mr. Hagglund's neighbours, his home has been
>counterpicketed several times by Scientologists who have stuffed leaflets
>in mailboxes and paraded along the sidewalk
>with signs accusing him of bigotry.
And in so doing shows the world what Scientology is really like.
> "I couldn't believe it," said Shelly Ferguson, who lives five doors
>down. "Gregg had warned us they were going to picket and we'd been
>wondering, 'Who's crazier, Gregg or these people?'"
>Then the truck rolls up with the pickets, and I went, 'Oh, Gregg's not
>nuts. These people are really off the deep end.' "
Joy! The cultists can't help themselves exhibit what they're all
about.
> Veteran Toronto Scientologist Peter Ramsay wrote to Halton Crown
>attorney Bob Lush, complaining about the older Mr. Hagglund's
>anti-Scientology activities and suggesting that his
>son's plight might be connected to the fact that his father practises a
>religion akin to witchcraft.
<chuckle> Oh no! Not that! Anything but that! I guess the crime
syndicate is the only cult that's allowed to have freedom of worship.
> "I think you know why," Mr. Buttnor said. "It has to do with hatred."
<chuckle> That's actually quite true.
> Mr. Ramsay, a Scientologist since 1972, did not return phone calls.
On the instructions of his cult leaders.
> Central to Scientology belief, though largely unmentioned, is the
>legend of galactic ruler Xenu, believed to have precipitated humankind's
>ills by an act of mass murder 75 million years ago.
Joy!
> The Xenu story first surfaced publicly in the 1980s in Los Angeles
>court documents. Scientology says the material has been grossly
>misunderstood.
<laughing> Translation: Now the world knows.
> Controversy is nothing new to Scientology, which says -to the scoffing
>of foes -it has millions of members worldwide.
which can't seem to be found. Perhaps they're all burried in Hemet.
> In 1994, the group had to pay a record $1.6-million for libeling an
> Ontario Crown attorney.
We need more of that. Coming soon to a court room near you.
Fredric L. Rice
>> Why the visit?
>>
>> "I think you know why," Mr. Buttnor said. "It has to do with hatred."
>
>Yes. We know.
And the public which read the piece also know, yes. It's funny that
the cult leader couldn't think up a better excuse, one that doesn't
end up admitting he did it out of hatred.
Fredric L. Rice
wrote:
>
>> "I couldn't believe it," said Shelly Ferguson, who lives five doors
>> down. "Gregg had warned us they were going to picket and we'd been
>> wondering, 'Who's crazier, Gregg or these people?'"
>> Then the truck rolls up with the pickets, and I went, 'Oh, Gregg's not
>> nuts. These people are really off the deep end.' "
>
>and the business they stand for. Right on, Al.
Amazing, huh? If the crime syndicate were to just behave itself and
act like responsible citizens instead of Mafia goons, their troubles
would dry up and disappear entirely.
>> Central to Scientology belief, though largely unmentioned, is the
>> legend of galactic ruler Xenu, believed to have precipitated humankind'=
>s
>> ills by an act of mass murder 75 million years ago.
>
>Wow, more Xenu, congratulations, Gregg. Once Xenu is well-known,
>the NOT's materials will be the next to be discussed and disclosed.
>Maybe start a whole new trend to owning dolls.
And thousands more hit the Internet to do searches on Xenu.
>> Scientologists' access to cyberspace is restricted, spokesman Al
>> Buttnor acknowledged. "There is material on the Internet that people at=
> a
>> certain level are not supposed to see."
>
>Why not? Not one Co$ member has ever been able to give a real
>answer to that question.
You get sick and die if you're not ready. <smile>
While I'm at it, I hope that Helena gets out before Miscavage kills
her.
STROKER
it?
Fredric L. Rice wrote in message <36d5f261...@nntp.lightlink.com>...
>On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:42:28 -0500, br...@newbridge.com (Brad
>McFarlane) wrote:
>
>
>>> It wasn't to upset them at all, and I felt very bad because Mrs.
Hagglund ...
>>> was very upset."
>>
>>Hagglund, why don't they talk to him directly? (Have they tried? If so,
>>what were the details?) Invite him to an org, agree to meet in public,
>>whatever. If you have a problem with an individual, you start by going to
>>*that* individual; doing an end run around the individual to his/her
>>relatives is cowardly.
>
>themselves that very question. The kook kult exposes itself once
>again.
>
Fredric L. Rice
: I planted Perdita from a potted plant last year, because the flowers on the
: tag looked very beautiful.
It's the photo in the Arena catalog that's luring me.
:
: When it did flower (it had a very tough first year) there were lots of cream
: colored flowers, and here in Connecticut they had a very pleasant sweet
: candy scent.
:
: Why was the year so tough? The plant is an aphid magnet, and blackspot was
: more at home on Perdita, and harder to get rid of, on it then any of the
: dozens of other bushes in my garden.
Hm, HOGR describes the foliage as "healthy" and Arena as "offering good
resistance to disease." Maybe it was El Nino...
Ann M.
Fredric L. Rice
>Alan Boles wrote:
>>
>> I can see it now.
>> clerk: "may I help you?'
>> Customer: "Yes I would like some woo"
>> clerk "pardon?'
>> Customer " woo! woo! "
>> clerk "trains are sold in the toy department 5th floor".
>>
>
>
>Um...I thought they send you for trains when you say, "chew, chew"
>
><ducking>
Oh, pooh, pooh.
Harry Demidavicius
Fredric L. Rice
McFarlane) wrote:
>> Why the visit?
>>
>> "I think you know why," Mr. Buttnor said. "It has to do with hatred."
>
>This has *got* to be the quote of the week:
>
>Q: "Why does Scientology visit relatives of critics?"
>A: "It has to do with hatred."
>
>Does Mr. Buttnor realize how what he said could be taken? I sense a picket
>placard coming on...
What's needed is an audio clip of that on the Internet somewhere.
I would _love_ to put it on a loop and play it during the next
picket.
Fredric L. Rice
McFarlane) wrote:
>> It wasn't to upset them at all, and I felt very bad because Mrs. Hagglund ...
>> was very upset."
>
Tommy
>
> so what is the story here, are you guys scientologists, or very much against
> it?
Both. Critics seem to outnumber Scientologists here, for reasons that
will become obvious to you if you hang around - please do so.
Tommy
--
L.Ron Hubbard on trying to get $cientology declared a religion for tax
purposes:
"I await your reaction on the religion angle. In my opinion,
we couldn't get worse public opinion than we have had or have less
customers with what we've got to sell. A religious charter would be
necessary in Pennsylvania or NJ to make it stick. But I sure could
make it stick."
Best Regards,
Ron
Tommy
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Tommy
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Tommy
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Steve A
<stonesthro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> so what is the story here, are you guys scientologists, or very much against
> it?
We're all Scientologists. We love L Ron Hubbard, and clap frequently
whenever we think of him.
We like a.r.s., because it is a great example of L Ron Hubbard's
invention, the Internet, being used for upstat theta comm between
beautiful beings who are all that stands between you and the end of
the world.
Join us! Only $200,000 down and easy (for us) payment terms.
Steve A
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Steve A
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Tommy
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Tommy
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Fredric L. Rice
A) wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:22:52 -0500, "STROKER"
><stonesthro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> so what is the story here, are you guys scientologists, or very much against
>> it?
>
>We're all Scientologists. We love L Ron Hubbard, and clap frequently
>whenever we think of him.
That we do, yes.
>We like a.r.s., because it is a great example of L Ron Hubbard's
>invention, the Internet, being used for upstat theta comm between
>beautiful beings who are all that stands between you and the end of
>the world.
>
>Join us! Only $200,000 down and easy (for us) payment terms.
You're offering last year's prices. Don't forget that due to the
unexpected and unexplainable decline in membership, we're rather
on the short end of the carrot, so-to-speak, and needed to raise our
prices to keep our leaders well fed.
Steve A
wrote:
> You're offering last year's prices. Don't forget that due to the
> unexpected and unexplainable decline in membership, we're rather
> on the short end of the carrot, so-to-speak, and needed to raise our
> prices to keep our leaders well fed.
Ah, so you never saw Flag Order 3764, which told us never to disclose
negative growth stats in an entheta-pontentiated environmentness, did
you?
Oops, I think the Ethics Officer might want to be doing a bit of an
origami buttplug with YOU, chum!
ARC,
Dicksplasher90210
William Barwell
Gregg Hagglund <elr...@cgo.wave.ca> wrote:
*********************** DELETED *********************
>
> Mr. Hagglund acknowledges that he holds unusual religious beliefs. He
>and his wife have two businesses legally registered as the Temple At'L'An
>and the Masts of White Light, which have
>few members and no income. Mr. Hagglund says he had a "personal
>revelation" that has become a belief in a benevolent Creator, in
>spiritual immortality and in an afterlife.
>
>
>mean-minded bigots targeting one of the world's new religions, whose
>leaders sometimes liken their situation to that of
>Jews in Nazi Germany.
>
> That's not the view of Detective Richard Kijewski of the Toronto Police
>Service's hate-crimes unit, long familiar with Scientology's running wars.
>
> Mr. Hagglund's activities thus far involve criticism rather than
>hatred, Det. Kijewski said. "According to the definition in the [Criminal]
>Code, both groups have a right to demonstrate....
>Whether this is going to escalate , I don't know."
>
I suspect so. And Scientology will lose. After all they have the secrets
to hide...
>WHAT THEY
>BELIEVE
>
Whoopsie! Well, maybe not any more.
They pulled this in.
>Firm believers in reincarnation, Scientologists hold that traumas
>experienced in other lives 黍r on other planets蟻re obstacles on the path
>to enlightenment, exorcised by a therapy-like process
>termed auditing.
>
> To critics, that path is an expensive space fantasy created by a
>sclence-fiction writer who lost touch with reality.
>
> Central to Scientology belief, though largely unmentioned, is the
>legend of galactic ruler Xenu, believed to have precipitated humankind's
>ills by an act of mass murder 75 million years ago.
>
> The Xenu story first surfaced publicly in the 1980s in Los Angeles
>court documents. Scientology says the material has been grossly
>misunderstood.
>
Oh, sure. Now actually, Scientology didn't say this.
Some nameless spokes critter said this. Who? Who knows?
On who's authority? Who knows? What misunderstanding could there
possibly be? Xenu, BTs, BT exorcism and implant removal at
a steep cost.
Where is the misunderstanding? Scientology has had about 4 years to post
here to ARS and set us straight on this little misunderstanding. To
write up a full report explaining it correctly and to release it to the
press. And have not done so. Why not we wonder? Or is it simply because
there is no misunderstanding and the know that. Except that does not
prevent them from bald faced lying to the press on this point?
Too bad Scientology is too cowardly to have an official net presence here
I could pointedly ask these questions of officially like, put Scientology
as a 'church' on the spot.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope of Houston
Slack!
William Barwell
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Fredric L. Rice
A) wrote:
>> You're offering last year's prices. Don't forget that due to the
>> unexpected and unexplainable decline in membership, we're rather
>> on the short end of the carrot, so-to-speak, and needed to raise our
>> prices to keep our leaders well fed.
>Ah, so you never saw Flag Order 3764, which told us never to disclose
>negative growth stats in an entheta-pontentiated environmentness, did
>you?
Oh fuck. I'm in trouble now, huh?
>Oops, I think the Ethics Officer might want to be doing a bit of an
>origami buttplug with YOU, chum!
No! Not David Miscavage! Anything but that!
Fredric L. Rice
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Fredric L. Rice
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Fredric L. Rice
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