Travolta son death comments from doctor
Skipper
***
First, seizures don't kill people generally unless it's refractory
status epilepticus (constant unrelenting seizure) where they stop
breathing. If the caregiver was there, there should have been time to
contact an emergency service before this occurred.
Second, a head injury if he fell could cause unresponsiveness but
again, the mechanism of injury should have allowed time for
intervention (unless just such a MASSIVE intercranial bleed occurred
and he herniated his brainstem, but still...) if the caregiver was
"right there" at all times....
No, autism by itself wouldn't have caused this either. I'd be
interested to know if drowning was a factor after the fall in the tub
on autopsy (2 types of drowning, "wet"-water in the lungs, and "dry"-
laryngospasm shuts the airway and very little water fills the
lungs -- won't bore you with more details.)
Monica Pignotti
For once I have to agree with Skipper that much we still don't know.
Since the autopsy results are not even in yet, we don't know if he
died of a seizure or something else. We don't even know if he has a
previous history of seizures, do we? We also have no way of knowing if
he was actually autistic. Since it is highly unlikely the Travoltas
would have taken him to a psychiatrist or other qualified mental
health professional, he would not have received a diagnosis. All we
are left with are the opinions, reported in tabloids, of "friends" who
are not qualified to assess whether he had autism, so we'll never know
and as things stand, there is no evidence that he was autistic.
Speaking of quotes from doctors, here is what a Cardiologist wrote
about people with Kawasaki disease, in response to a discussion about
Jett's death:
******begin quote
"Is there any actual evidence that Jett's death was due to a seizure?
The published reports indicate this was an unwitnessed sudden death.
Most such deaths in adolescents are due to cardiac disease. In an
adolescent with known epilepsy - I'm not sure if there are any
figures, but my guess would still be cardiac disease, unless there was
a history of status epilepticus (which was suggested in one report,
although no evidence was supplied) and/or poor seizure control.
"In an epileptic adolescent with a history of Kawasaki disease - now
we're really into blog heaven. From UpToDate: "In untreated patients
[with KD], the incidence of coronary artery aneurysms is about 20 to
25 percent with a mortality rate of approximately 2 percent. Early
detection of the disease and prompt initiation of therapy with aspirin
and intravenous immune globulin (IVIG) have reduced the death rate to
well below 1 percent and the prevalence of coronary artery aneurysms
to approximately 5 percent. …
[and] … Approximately 20 to 25 percent of patients will have coronary
artery aneurysms by day 13 if they are treated with aspirin alone. In
contrast, the prevalence of coronary artery aneurysms is reduced to 4
to 5 percent in patients treated within the first 10 days with IVIG
combined with aspirin." It's not perfectly clear, but I take it that
these mortality rates refer to the acute phase of Kawasaki disease.
"Also from UpToDate: "SUDEP [sudden unexplained death in epilepsy]
causes about 2 to 18 percent of all deaths in patients with epilepsy.
The incidence increases with severity of epilepsy, and it is about 0.5
to 1 percent a year in those with severe refractory epilepsy." "
********end quote
But again, as this doctor also noted, until autopsy results are in,
this is all speculation. It is also worth noting that according to
what was reported in the media, it is the Travoltas who requested the
autopsy.
Eldon
Travolta's brother Joey made a documentary film about autistic people,
for God's sake. Today, most general practitioners and schoolteachers
are familiar with the symptoms of autism. Anyone who has dealt with
autistic kids (including their parents) can spot autism pretty
accurately just by simple observation. It really doesn't take a
"qualified professional," though a confirmation by one would be a good
idea.
Monica Pignotti
Travolta's brother Joey is in no way qualified to pronounce a
diagnosis of autism on anyone, "for God's sake". Making a documentary
does not qualify a person to pronounce diagnosis. It is very dangerous
to believe you can just tell someone is autistic by "simple
observation". That is a recipe for quackery and over-diagnosis run
amok, similar to what happened in the 1990s witch hunt where people
thought they could "just tell" in minutes if someone had been sexually
abused. Those people were just as confident as you seem to be.
Monica
Eldon
Monica, here -- I have a model ferry boat and a doll for you. Now show
me where L. Ron Hubbard touched you, OK?
Maureen
Do they do fmri's at autopsy, or any other test to determine this from
testing?
Additionally, $cientology children are seen in the media, as on
pedestals as in Beaver Cleaver families with their parents. Like Suri
Cruise. With the notable exception of Jett. That would be anti-social?
Maureen
>
> Monica
henri
wrote:
>Travolta's brother Joey made a documentary film about autistic people,
>for God's sake. Today, most general practitioners and schoolteachers
>are familiar with the symptoms of autism. Anyone who has dealt with
>autistic kids (including their parents) can spot autism pretty
>accurately just by simple observation. It really doesn't take a
>"qualified professional," though a confirmation by one would be a good
>idea.
This is simply not true. The process for diagnosing autism is complex
and generally requires not just one professional, but often multiple
professionals. Almost all of the symptoms of autism which must be
established also occur in other, similar disorders, so all these other
possible diagnoses need to be eliminated as well. There are also many
marginal cases where something could be autism or something else, and
it isn't easy to decide even after gathering all appropriate
diagnostic information.
A diagnosis of autism is something which follows someone for life. No
competent medical professional would just look at someone and make a
snap diagnosis.
Eldon
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 05:49:49 -0800 (PST), Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Travolta's brother Joey made a documentary film about autistic people,
> >for God's sake. Today, most general practitioners and schoolteachers
> >are familiar with the symptoms of autism. Anyone who has dealt with
> >autistic kids (including their parents) can spot autism pretty
> >accurately just by simple observation. It really doesn't take a
> >"qualified professional," though a confirmation by one would be a good
> >idea.
>
> This is simply not true. The process for diagnosing autism is complex
> and generally requires not just one professional, but often multiple
> professionals. Almost all of the symptoms of autism which must be
> established also occur in other, similar disorders, so all these other
> possible diagnoses need to be eliminated as well.
I said "they can spot autism pretty accurately." As in, say, 90% of
the time. Of course it should be confirmed once they spot it. But if
perceptual deficits have been eliminated, when it looks like autism,
it is very likely to be autism.
Maureen
$cientology or any repetitive trance induction would never work on
children with autism...
That's probably the foremost reason he was never seen in public. Not
being able to duplicate
such repetition, for reasons beyond their uneducated control. This
also brings an interesting retrospective
idea to the effects of $cientology TR training, etc as to reduction of
autonomous control and lack of empathy as the tech mirrors:
Broken Mirrors
SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN
COPYRIGHT 2006 SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, INC.
Page 2
www.sciam.com
SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN
Studies of the mirror neuron system may reveal clues
to the causes of autism and help researchers develop
new ways to diagnose and treat the disorder
By Vilayanur S. Ramachandran and Lindsay M. Oberman
"Mirror neurons may also be involved in imitation,
an ability that appears to exist in rudimentary form
in the great apes but is most pronounced in hu-
mans. The propensity to imitate must be
at least partly innate: Andrew Meltzoff of
the University of Washington has shown
that if you stick your tongue out at a new-
born baby, the infant will do the same.
Because the baby cannot see its own
tongue,it cannot use visual feedback and
error correction to learn the skill.Instead
there must be a hardwired mechanism in
the child’s brain for mapping the mother’s
visual appearance whether it be a tongue sticking
out or a smile onto the motor command neurons.
To demonstrate mirror neuron dys-
function in children with autism, we
needed to find a way to monitor the ac-
tivity of their nerve cells without putting
electrodes in their brains (as Rizzolatti
and his colleagues did with their mon-
keys). We realized that we could do so
using an electroencephalogram (EEG)
measurement of the children’s brain
waves. For more than half a century, sci-
entists have known that an EEG compo-
nent called the mu wave is blocked any-
time a person makes a voluntary muscle
movement, such as opening and closing
one’s hands. Interestingly, this compo-
nent is also blocked when a person
watches someone else perform the same...
etc.
Maureen
"Rev" Norle Enturbulata, OD, DTS
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fd038000-f9f9-4a8a...@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com...
One might well wonder if Joey Travolta might be having a much more difficult
time with all this, as he knew what had to be done, and probably tried to
get Jett some proper treatment. To Joey, this isn't just a PR Flap to
traverse.
--
SP Goodman
Usually Right "Reverend" Norle Enturbulata DTS, OD KTC
*
http://www.youtube.com/Enturbulata
http://tinyurl.com/yre7c6
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
*
" You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
-- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
"...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
"Rather than give psychotics such treatment it would be far kinder to kill
them immediately and completely..."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Science of Survival", p117
*
"5. invalidation is force applied. You apply enough force to anybody and
you've invalidated him. How invalidated can he get? Dead!"
- Dianetics and Scientology Tech. Dictionary by L. Ron Hubbard
Eldon
<notearthligh...@nothotmail.com> wrote:
> "Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
Maybe Skip would like to give Joey T. another compassionate phone call
(avoidingn the phrase "I told you so") and ask how he is taking this.
I'm not kidding. It might do some good.
He is a trained professional, BTW. Not only does he know how to make
documentary films, he has studied autism firsthand. He is likely to be
better able to diagnose it than most medical doctors, and probably
many psychologists who are lacking in direct experience.
Monica and Henri are both blowing smoke about this.
>
> --
> SP Goodman
> Usually Right "Reverend" Norle Enturbulata DTS, OD KTC
Skipper
<a30a62df-044b-452e...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
Oh sure. "Sorry about your dead nephew, Joey. Now maybe J.T. will
listen up, huh?"
Eldon
> In article
> <a30a62df-044b-452e-b2c3-297b48f7f...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
Well, Skippy, I had something a bit more diplomatic in mind. But if
you're not up to it, maybe you cna give Sarah Palin his phone number.
She should be able to commiserate for one reason or another.
>
>
>
> > He is a trained professional, BTW. Not only does he know how to make
> > documentary films, he has studied autism firsthand. He is likely to be
> > better able to diagnose it than most medical doctors, and probably
> > many psychologists who are lacking in direct experience.
>
> > Monica and Henri are both blowing smoke about this.
>
> > > --
> > > SP Goodman
> > > Usually Right "Reverend" Norle Enturbulata DTS, OD KTC
>
> > > *http://www.youtube.com/Enturbulatahttp://tinyurl.com/yre7c6http://www....
> > > nethttp://www.xenutv.comhttp://www.scientology-lies.comhttp://www.whyare...
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> - Show quoted text -
Monica, Joey Travolta has a degree in Special Education and worked as
a special education teaccher besides producing the documentary
"Normal People Scare Me," for Inclusion Films, about kids with
autism. http://www.wrongplanet.net/article328.html
He teaches autistic children to act via Actors for Autism at his
acting camp in CA. Many Spec Ed teachers are familiar with autism
because the children require more individualized teaching.
http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:oY4HV_ORoS0J:www.joeytee.com/thedailynews.htm+joey+travolta+%22special+education%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us
Award-Winning Documentary, Normal People Scare Me - A Film About
Autism, Kicks Off World Tour in New York and Canada
http://www.pr.com/press-release/9257
Normal People Scare Me
A film that explores what it's like to be autistic. Directed by Talyor
Cross and Keri Bowers. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYu-s8VVCKk
Actor Joey Travolta reads at a San Jose, CA area Barnes & Noble on the
first World Autism Awareness Day, April 2nd 2008.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6xq5N9xXNlg
Riddle of John Travolta's son - could he have been saved?
mirror.co.uk EXCLUSIVE by Adrian Butler and Kate Mansey
Last night a close friend of Joey Travolta, John’s film-maker brother,
gave an insight into family divisions caused by the youngster’s
illness.
The friend said Joey and John regularly argued about what was wrong
with Jett. John did not believe it was autism, a condition not
recognised by Scientology. Joey, 58, learned about the disorder when
he interviewed 65 autistic youngsters for a documentary called Normal
People Scare Me.
The idea of the film was to teach people about the syndrome, which can
spark violent seizures. Joey also formed the group Actors for Autism
which helps sufferers make films.
The friend said: “Joey could see Jett in every one of those 65 kids he
spoke to. It was so obvious Jett was autistic just from spending five
minutes with him, but the cruel fact of their religion meant his
parents simply did not accept it.”
Scientologists believe mental illness is psychosomatic, that people
who suffer from it are defective human beings, and teach that it
should be treated through spiritual healing. They reject the use of
drugs to treat mental conditions.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/03/riddle-of-john-travolta-s-son-could-he-have-been-saved-115875-21013277/
Eldon
Monica doesn't give a shit about any of that. According to her
standards, he is NOT a "qualified professional" so that's that. Nobody
is a qualified prrofessional who doesn't meet Monica's standards, and
even then she may change her mind. So there!
[SFX: Monica stamps foot.]
You don't know about qualified professionals. Moniica does! So there!
[SFX: Monica stamps foot.]
>
> Award-Winning Documentary, Normal People Scare Me - A Film About
> Autism, Kicks Off World Tour in New York and Canadahttp://www.pr.com/press-release/9257
> drugs to treat mental conditions.http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/03/riddle-of-john-tr...
"Rev" Norle Enturbulata, OD, DTS
"Skipper" <skipSP...@yahoo.not> wrote in message
news:050120090825444804%skipSP...@yahoo.not...
>> > > [and] . Approximately 20 to 25 percent of patients will have coronary
Or perhaps, "There are a lot of people out there who care."
Monica Pignotti
90% of the time? That's yet another outrageous claim that has no
basis. Rob is correct. There are many other conditions that can mimic
the symptoms of autism. Diagnosis is a complex process, not something
lay people can tell by just observing.
Monica Pignotti
That doesn't qualify him to diagnose John Travolta's son. In fact, it
would be highly unethical for him, if he is a professional, to be
attempting any kind of diagnosis on a relative. In professional ethics
that would be known as a dual relationship. People cannot be objective
about relatives. What's more, special ed teachers are not qualified to
make this kind of diagnosis anyway.
> He teaches autistic children to act via Actors for Autism at his
> acting camp in CA. Many Spec Ed teachers are familiar with autism
> because the children require more individualized teaching.http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:oY4HV_ORoS0J:www.joeytee.com/thed...
That doesn't qualify him to diagnose.
> Award-Winning Documentary, Normal People Scare Me - A Film About
> Autism, Kicks Off World Tour in New York and Canadahttp://www.pr.com/press-release/9257
Are you serious, Maureen? That is not a credential to diagnose anyone,
much less his own relative.
> Normal People Scare Me
> A film that explores what it's like to be autistic. Directed by Talyor
> Cross and Keri Bowers. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYu-s8VVCKk
> Actor Joey Travolta reads at a San Jose, CA area Barnes & Noble on the
> first World Autism Awareness Day, April 2nd 2008.
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6xq5N9xXNlg
>
> Riddle of John Travolta's son - could he have been saved?
> mirror.co.uk EXCLUSIVE by Adrian Butler and Kate Mansey
>
> Last night a close friend of Joey Travolta, John’s film-maker brother,
> gave an insight into family divisions caused by the youngster’s
> illness.
>
> The friend said Joey and John regularly argued about what was wrong
> with Jett. John did not believe it was autism, a condition not
> recognised by Scientology. Joey, 58, learned about the disorder when
> he interviewed 65 autistic youngsters for a documentary called Normal
> People Scare Me.
This is nothing more than gossip, Maureen. I look for evidence, not
the sort of anecdotal gossip that so seems to impress you.
> The idea of the film was to teach people about the syndrome, which can
> spark violent seizures. Joey also formed the group Actors for Autism
> which helps sufferers make films.
>
> The friend said: “Joey could see Jett in every one of those 65 kids he
> spoke to. It was so obvious Jett was autistic just from spending five
> minutes with him, but the cruel fact of their religion meant his
> parents simply did not accept it.”
>
> Scientologists believe mental illness is psychosomatic, that people
> who suffer from it are defective human beings, and teach that it
> should be treated through spiritual healing. They reject the use of
> drugs to treat mental conditions.http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/03/riddle-of-john-tr...
Again, all you are doing here is repeating tabloid gossip, not
evidence. It makes me sick that people such as yourself are exploiting
this tragedy to engage in yet more psychobabbling speculation. We
don't have the facts of the case here and we will never know if he was
autistic.
Monica Pignotti
Nonsense. Asking for actual evidence is not "stamping my foot". It is
you who are stamping your feet, Eldon, and only making a complete fool
of yourself in the process. [Eldon bangs head against wall, flings
himself on the floor and throws tantrum because Monica won't fall into
lockstep with his unsubstantiated assertions]
Patrick Volk
I have to tell my Mom then that she's being highly unethical when
she's diagnosing my kids... She's only a pediatric nurse.
>
>> He teaches autistic children to act via Actors for Autism at his
>> acting camp in CA. Many Spec Ed teachers are familiar with autism
>> because the children require more individualized teaching.http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:oY4HV_ORoS0J:www.joeytee.com/thed...
>
>That doesn't qualify him to diagnose.
Consider the circumstances here... Perhaps not the best source of
information, but better than the parents would be able to provide (it
is his opinion compared to none, essentially).
>
>> Award-Winning Documentary, Normal People Scare Me - A Film About
>> Autism, Kicks Off World Tour in New York and Canadahttp://www.pr.com/press-release/9257
>
>Are you serious, Maureen? That is not a credential to diagnose anyone,
>much less his own relative.
You like to really reach in your arguments... Being a relative has
bearing, ethically or otherwise. He is in a better position than the
world at large to judge. Granted, he's not a board-certified mental
health doctor, but if you're involved in education or rehabilitation,
you do have to know a few things about the people you're helping,
right?
>
>> Normal People Scare Me
>> A film that explores what it's like to be autistic. Directed by Talyor
>> Cross and Keri Bowers. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYu-s8VVCKk
>> Actor Joey Travolta reads at a San Jose, CA area Barnes & Noble on the
>> first World Autism Awareness Day, April 2nd 2008.
>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6xq5N9xXNlg
>>
>> Riddle of John Travolta's son - could he have been saved?
>> mirror.co.uk EXCLUSIVE by Adrian Butler and Kate Mansey
>>
>> Last night a close friend of Joey Travolta, John’s film-maker brother,
>> gave an insight into family divisions caused by the youngster’s
>> illness.
>>
>> The friend said Joey and John regularly argued about what was wrong
>> with Jett. John did not believe it was autism, a condition not
>> recognised by Scientology. Joey, 58, learned about the disorder when
>> he interviewed 65 autistic youngsters for a documentary called Normal
>> People Scare Me.
>
>This is nothing more than gossip, Maureen. I look for evidence, not
>the sort of anecdotal gossip that so seems to impress you.
I seriously doubt it was Kawasaki Syndrome. Kawasaki also isn't
characterized by seizures (or is that "anecdotal gossip" as well in
your eyes?).
I feel you also are certainly aware there is no real higher standard
of proof in this case. JT would not admit it's what most of the world
would consider a behavioral disease, because Scientology doesn't
recognize such things.
Easy to say nobody's qualified when there is going to be no qualified
opinion. Autism is possible, epilepsy also.
>
>> The idea of the film was to teach people about the syndrome, which can
>> spark violent seizures. Joey also formed the group Actors for Autism
>> which helps sufferers make films.
>>
>> The friend said: “Joey could see Jett in every one of those 65 kids he
>> spoke to. It was so obvious Jett was autistic just from spending five
>> minutes with him, but the cruel fact of their religion meant his
>> parents simply did not accept it.”
>>
>> Scientologists believe mental illness is psychosomatic, that people
>> who suffer from it are defective human beings, and teach that it
>> should be treated through spiritual healing. They reject the use of
>> drugs to treat mental conditions.http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/03/riddle-of-john-tr...
>
>Again, all you are doing here is repeating tabloid gossip, not
>evidence. It makes me sick that people such as yourself are exploiting
>this tragedy to engage in yet more psychobabbling speculation. We
>don't have the facts of the case here and we will never know if he was
>autistic.
I have a case for you.
A 16-year-old girl, Jett Pignotti, died the same day, due to seizures.
Parents were Christian Scientists. The Husbands sister did a
documentary on brain cancer believes Jett had brain cancer.
But, apparently she's not qualified to make a diagnosis, and gets
accused of capitalizing on a tragedy. Doesn't matter if people wonder
if the tragedy was self-made.
The one thing I know damn well is, I don't think Kawasaki syndrome is
to blame here. Is it gossip to speculate whether or not he had a
condition that required vigilance? That's the first question.
The second was, if the condition was controllable by medication,
there's your real ethical dilemma. Do you withold the best you can do
for your child because of your beliefs?
A seizure is not in and of itself a fatal event, even a grand mal. It
can set up the conditions for a secondary event (fall would be likely
given the timeframe.... People generally don't get a shower right
after new years, so I don't think drowning is involved). That there
were supposedly hours between the event and the response is the thing
making most people scratch their heads on this one.
No doubt, it's a tragedy for the Travoltas. And actually, in this
case, if it was autism, it's very possible there were no need for
medication. They had the means to ensure he got the medical
(non-psych) attention he needed in case.
Any judgement we make pales in comparison with what they're going
through. But that certainly doesn't mean nobody can talk about it.
Maureen
The CCHR says that teachers are not qualified to suggest a child has
ADHD. They abet child abuse.
Monica Pignotti
> On Jan 5, 1:09 pm,Eldon<EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 7:59 pm, Out_Of_The_Dark <formerlyfoo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 4, 9:04 am, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > for God's sake. Today, most general practitioners and schoolteachers
> > > > > are familiar with the symptoms of autism. Anyone who has dealt with
> > > > > autistic kids (including their parents) can spot autism pretty
> > > > > accurately just by simple observation. It really doesn't take a
> > > > > "qualified professional," though a confirmation by one would be a good
> > > > > idea.
>
> > > > diagnosis of autism on anyone, "for God's sake". Making a documentary
> > > > does not qualify a person to pronounce diagnosis. It is very dangerous
> > > > to believe you can just tell someone is autistic by "simple
> > > > observation". That is a recipe for quackery and over-diagnosis run
> > > > amok, similar to what happened in the 1990s witch hunt where people
> > > > thought they could "just tell" in minutes if someone had been sexually
> > > > abused. Those people were just as confident as you seem to be.
>
> > > > Monica- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > a special education teaccher besides producing the documentary
> > > "Normal People Scare Me," for Inclusion Films, about kids with
> > > autism. http://www.wrongplanet.net/article328.html
>
> > > He teaches autistic children to act via Actors for Autism at his
> > > acting camp in CA. Many Spec Ed teachers are familiar with autism
> > > because the children require more individualized teaching.http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:oY4HV_ORoS0J:www.joeytee.com/thed...
>
> > Monica doesn't give a shit about any of that. According to her
> > standards, he is NOT a "qualified professional" so that's that. Nobody
> > is a qualified prrofessional who doesn't meet Monica's standards, and
> > even then she may change her mind. So there!
> > [SFX: Monica stamps foot.]
>
> > You don't know about qualified professionals. Moniica does! So there!
> > [SFX: Monica stamps foot.]
>
> > > Award-Winning Documentary, Normal People Scare Me - A Film About
> > > Autism, Kicks Off World Tour in New York and Canadahttp://www.pr.com/press-release/9257
>
> > > Normal People Scare Me
> > > A film that explores what it's like to be autistic. Directed by Talyor
> > > Cross and Keri Bowers. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYu-s8VVCKk
> > > first World Autism Awareness Day, April 2nd 2008.
> > > http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6xq5N9xXNlg
>
> > > mirror.co.uk EXCLUSIVE by Adrian Butler and Kate Mansey
>
> > > Last night a close friend of JoeyTravolta, John’s film-makerbrother,
> > > gave an insight into family divisions caused by the youngster’s
> > > illness.
>
> > > The friend said Joey and John regularly argued about what was wrong
> > > with Jett. John did not believe it was autism, a condition not
> > > recognised by Scientology. Joey, 58, learned about the disorder when
> > > he interviewed 65 autistic youngsters for a documentary called Normal
> > > People Scare Me.
>
> > > The idea of the film was to teach people about the syndrome, which can
> > > spark violent seizures. Joey also formed the group Actors for Autism
> > > which helps sufferers make films.
>
> > > The friend said: “Joey could see Jett in every one of those 65 kids he
> > > spoke to. It was so obvious Jett was autistic just from spending five
> > > minutes with him, but the cruel fact of their religion meant his
> > > parents simply did not accept it.”
>
> > > Scientologists believe mental illness is psychosomatic, that people
> > > who suffer from it are defective human beings, and teach that it
> > > should be treated through spiritual healing. They reject the use of
> > > drugs to treat mental conditions.http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/03/riddle-of-john-tr...
>
> The CCHR says that teachers are not qualified to suggest a child has
> ADHD. They abet child abuse.
Not only "the CCHR". The medical and mental health professions and
state licensing boards also do not include teachers among the
professionals who are allowed to diagnose ADHD or any other condition.
What planet have you been living on? All teachers can do is report
signs and suggest the child be evaluated by a doctor or psychologist
who can then perform valid and reliable assessment procedures to
determine if the person has the condition. Overburdened teachers can
often be wrong on this topic and Scientologists did not invent state
licensing procedures, Maureen.
Android Cat
You keep using that word...
You keep inserting the word diagnose even though it's quite clear that
what's been talked about is people trained to spot _possible_ signs of ADHD
so that a child can be referred to a professional who *is* allowed to
diagnose ADHD (or not).
--
Ron of that ilk.
Eldon
That's what Scientology calls a "dub-in." Maureen clearly said
"suggest," not diagnose.
Android Cat
That's what I call dishonest. (As well as painfully obvious.)
Maureen
> Eldon wrote:
> > On Jan 8, 4:26 am, "Android Cat" <androidca...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Monica Pignotti wrote:
> >>> On Jan 6, 1:22 am, Maureen <Lermanet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> The CCHR says that teachers are not qualified to suggest a child
> >>>> has ADHD. They abet child abuse.
>
> >>> Not only "the CCHR". The medical and mental health professions and
> >>> state licensing boards also do not include teachers among the
> >>> professionals who are allowed to diagnose ADHD or any other
> >>> condition.
>
> >> You keep using that word...
>
> >> You keep inserting the word diagnose even though it's quite clear
> >> that what's been talked about is people trained to spot _possible_
> >> signs of ADHD so that a child can be referred to a professional who
> >> *is* allowed to diagnose ADHD (or not).
Correct.
$cientology hopes to fool those who aren't aware of the precise terms.
eg., "The teachers are diagnosing the children and giving them
handfuls of Ritalin."
There are two errors of logic; both aim at creating fear.
In most states where the NFWL/CCHR dog and pony show arrived, most
State Depts. of Education already knew and had such regulations
regarding. Also, in the U.S. public school system, there are 1 to 2
licensed psychologists on staff. They do not even diagnose and
prescribe 'handfuls' of Ritalin.' They can only suggest. So the CCHR
does this in order TO scare people away from doctors and school
teachers in this way.
>
> > That's what Scientology calls a "dub-in." Maureen clearly said
> > "suggest," not
Yes. That's what I based my reply to Monica on, as her previous post
sounded like something the CCHR would say. (You guys are good at
catching the drift.)
I don't know what' dub-in' (kind of sounds like, " rub-a-dub-in da
tub," but more to the obvious, "dubbing in a voice," or another term
to make the comment "persuasive" Yes, the cult practices "coercive
persuasion.")
> That's what I call dishonest. (As well as painfully obvious.)
The idea is to use emotion, or authority (authoritative hypnosis,(( in
text?! On the Internet??!)), as Monica does), when substituting
persuasive terms in the desired context. George Estabrooks said so!
Dub-in the projection onto thy flock!
Maureen
Maureen
snip
>
> You don't know about qualified professionals. Moniica does! So there!
> [SFX: Monica stamps foot.]
militant, 'goose stepping for Ron'
Mary said:
>
$cientology '$-kills' killed Jett Travolta
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/confusion-technique.htm
$cientology: Guantanamo Bay, every day.
-----
Maureen
Android Cat
It sounds like a strawman argument, where you create the statement that you
do want to answer and then answer that rather what was actually said.
(Dubbing in the strawman.)
>> That's what I call dishonest. (As well as painfully obvious.)
>
> The idea is to use emotion, or authority (authoritative hypnosis,(( in
> text?! On the Internet??!)), as Monica does), when substituting
> persuasive terms in the desired context. George Estabrooks said so!
> Dub-in the projection onto thy flock!
Compare it with this attempt:
http://newsblaze.com/story/20090110151516zzzz.nb/topstory.html
Maureen
Yes. In the 60 minutes video where Martin Ruston talked about the Xenu
story, the cult woman spokesperson started using the defense about the
critics who wanted "to make fun of their beliefs." That is what the
cult wanted others to respond to. As if that's what they wanted to
answer to. Not to answer or have others talking about their bait and
switch scam or medical ramifications towards the teaching for: "all
human problems."
One wonders if this is a part and parcel of "Dear Alice." where they
are projecting the desired response to think the public will react to
anything they say. Feeding their 'wins' based on having their "TR's
dubbed-in." That would mean cult training through the media. Media
manipulation. This is where I believe that media outlets should
understand their ethical rules of passing such brainwash with their
name on it. Not attack the media or person in retrospect. That is
counterproductive as opposed to teaching. That editorial is a good
example of undoing this tactic, and hopefully the adequate information
or pinpointing of specific tactic can be made aware.
> It sounds like a strawman argument, where you create the statement that you
> do want to answer and then answer that rather what was actually said.
> (Dubbing in the strawman.)
I also noticed in the article you gave, there is an overall implied
statement made about the earlier use of "'Depakote." They used this to
reinforce the publici fear about the use of psych drugs in effect.
That is a CCHR purpose to create this unending fear. And I saw this as
an overall ploy.
I think the use of the strawman covers this larger truth in
$cientology:
One that distracts body thetans being the "cause oif all human
problems." As a reason to not tell people who have not taken OT3 the
Xenu Story. That's the ticket. John Travolta cannot speak about body
thetans. We will all get pneumonia and die. But yet they take the risk
to introduce Depakote into the story, as a way to come back and attack
it's use to cause fear/ Notice they did this in the Jeremy Perkins
story, the exposure of him being on psych drugs, to make a negative
statement about the usage. themselves. (Rather implied more than
anything.) It's putting words in someone elses mouth as if to expect
the next reaction.... and so onto set up for their next premediated
attack.. John Travolta cannot tell others that he believed his son had
another, totally different problem.
Monica's attack of professional, using a dub-in about diagnosing, and
the implication of "what happened or the fear of what could have
happed to Jett Travolta when psych drugs are used," are two
distractive measures used to stay away from "body thetans."
>
> >> That's what I call dishonest. (As well as painfully obvious.)
>
> > The idea is to use emotion, or authority (authoritative hypnosis,(( in
> > text?! On the Internet??!)), as Monica does), when substituting
> > persuasive terms in the desired context. George Estabrooks said so!
> > Dub-in the projection onto thy flock!
>
> Compare it with this attempt:http://newsblaze.com/story/20090110151516zzzz.nb/topstory.html
As above.
If they are not professional to diagnose, my words would mean the
same. Don't read or listen to teachers, doctors, or critics. The votes
would really be (not) dubbed-in..
Maureen