Impromptu picket report - 12/27/04
Mark Bunker
Walmart. Not usually my first choice but they were close when the need
arose. They told me it would be two hours and I thought, "Great! What am I
going to do for two hours?"
Well, the question was answered when I walked out the front door and found
two tables set up for stress tests. I sat down and grabbed the e-meter and
was asked to think of a name of someone who caused me stess. Well, I had to
confess that the needle moved when I thought of L. Ron Hubbard. I'm bad at
hiding the truth.
This led me to ask some questions about Hubbard which the pretty girls
allowed the lone, older male to answer. Turns out Hubbard was an engineer
and a scientist who funded his research with his voluminous writing of
fiction. I got him to admit that at least the first two weren't true. Then
one of the woman took over (who I will randomly call Mary Sue for the sake
of the story) and told me that the manager had approved them being there.
So I had to go talk to the manager.
The manager was a nice guy who told me three other people had complained.
One woman said she had lived in Clearwater and was so afraid of Scientology
that she had to move. But the mananger said they were working in a loophole
in that they were only selling Dianetics and there was nothing about
religion being mentioned. By then, Mary Sue was worried about my
whereabouts and came to find me speaking with the manager. She wanted to
assure him that everything was fine and I was a mere kook.
I asked her to bring in a copy of Dianetics and she went and retrieved one.
I thought there would be some mention of other Scientology publications in
the ads at the back of the book . There were none. BUT...I had been
explaining to the manager, in Mary Sue's absence, that the e-meter was a
religious artifact and it was being used out front at the tables. When I
mentioned this to Mary Sue, she was outraged. She said she had never heard
of such a thing.
I asked her why I had heard of it and she hadn't...or was she just not
telling the truth? I explained the history of the 1963 FDA raids and how
each e-meter had to have a sticker on it saying it was a religious artifact
and was not to be used for medical purposes. She said, "I have entensive
knowlege of this material and I have never read anything about this."
The glorious thing is that while I was explaining all of this, the manager
looked at the first page in the book and had been reading the printed
disclaimer. "It's right here," he said. "The e-meter is a religious
artifact." The woman was dumbfounded. I said to her, "I thought you were
familair with this material." Then I asked the manager, "How long did it
take you to find that out?" "Two minutes," he replied. I said to the
woman, "So it took him two minutes and we're to honestly believe you weren't
aware of that fact?'
The manager also saw the copyright belonging to Scientology and told her
that this changed things. He had to call his corporate office and tell them
this new wrinkle but was still going to wait to see what they would say.
Mary Sue went back outside and I shared some more info with the manager who
promised to do some research on the web.
Next I went outside and sat on the bench next to their tables. I thought it
was a shame I didn't have a picket sign so I went inside and bought a large
tablet of art paper and a black marker and went back to the bench and
printed a "XENU.NET" sign to hold up. When some of the girls moved in front
of me to block the sign I stood up and decided to counter some of their
sales pitches. My most common one was in response to their "Free Stress
tests" call. I would follow it with "Nothing is free in Scientology.
Dianetics is Scientology. Beware Scientology."
This led to the girls shouting louder and louder to try to drown me out.
This went on for about an hour and a half. I tried to remain cordial even
when the lone guy in the group was calling me a "fat fuck" and telling me to
"get the fuck out of here." I simply pointed out that the wog world was at
cause over him.
I saw one person buy a book during my time there. I gave him a handwritten
piece of paper torn from the art book and asked him to look at xenu.net when
he got home. This went along with my slogan, "xenu.net...crashing stats
since 5:30." Okay, that one was only meant for the body routers.
All good thing must come to an end so as my car was repaired, I decided to
head home.
This is true.
Zinj
Heh. It's an R6Mas Miracle Mark!
Happy New Year
Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Pts 2
Happy 2005'
Tom
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/Scientology/
Nessie
"Mark Bunker" <markb...@cox.net> wrote
news:M05Ad.7604$Q%4.6394@fed1read06...
Hey Mark, grand performance, rock'n roll!
Keith Henson
wrote:
>Life is so peculiar. I needed some sudden car repairs and ended up at
>Walmart. Not usually my first choice but they were close when the need
>arose. They told me it would be two hours and I thought, "Great! What am I
>going to do for two hours?"
>
>Well, the question was answered when I walked out the front door and found
>two tables set up for stress tests. I sat down and grabbed the e-meter and
>was asked to think of a name of someone who caused me stess. Well, I had to
>confess that the needle moved when I thought of L. Ron Hubbard. I'm bad at
>hiding the truth.
snip
Great report Mark!
Thanks for the report and the impromptu picket.
I sent the following through WalMart's letter form here:
http://www.walmartstores.com/wmstore/wmstores/Container.jsp?template=OnlineForm.jsp
*******
Friend of mine posted a story tonight about a notorious scam setting
up outside the door and taking advantage of WalMart customers.
I can send you his report or you can look it up on Usenet.
There is a degree of legal danger to WalMart in putting up with this
scan camped next to your door. I think a family might be able to sue
WalMart for Big Buck$ if a family members was hooked into this scam
outside a WalMart, especially if WalMark know what they are.
Best wishes
Keith Henson
Larry T.
news:41d0e2a3$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
> "Mark Bunker" <markb...@cox.net> wrote
> news:M05Ad.7604$Q%4.6394@fed1read06...
> > Life is so peculiar. I needed some sudden car repairs and ended up at
Walmart. Not usually my first choice but they were close when the need
arose. They told me it would be two hours and I thought, "Great! What am
I going to do for two hours?"
Well, the question was answered when I walked out the front door and found
two tables set up for stress tests. I sat down and grabbed the e-meter and
was asked to think of a name of someone who caused me stress. Well, I had
to confess that the needle moved when I thought of L. Ron Hubbard. I'm bad
hiding the truth.
the ads at the back of the book. There were none. BUT...I had been
Hey Mark:
This IS a really surprising story considering the troubles you have already
had
with these people in the past.
--
Larry T. @ www.larryontheweb.freeservers.com
Faxhor
Awesome!
Faxhor
=-=-=
OSA Bot Turned Critic
Read L Ron Hubbard's Admissions, one of the earliest examples of OT solo
auditing.
http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/nl/english/admissions-hubbard.html
or
http://www.lermanet2.com/reference/Admissions.pdf
Dave Touretzky
Great report, Mark!
The Mark Super VII E-meter they use for stress tests has a plaque on
it. The wording is as follows:
HUBBARD ELECTROMETER MANUFACTURING
By itself, this meter does nothing. It is solely for the guide of
Ministers of the Church in Confessionals and pastoral
counselling. The Electrometer is not medically or scientifically
capable of improving the health or bodily function of anyone and is
for religious use by students and Ministers of the Church of
Scientology only. HUBBARD, E-METER and SCIENTOLOGY are trademarks
and service marks owned by RTC and used with its permission.
You can see a picture of the plaque here:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/Mark-VII/index.html
By the way: this "Secrets of Scientology: The E-Meter" web site is the
#1 Google ranked site for "E-meter". It outranks CoS' own E-meter
pages. Cuz it's way better than theirs. Nyah nyah nyah.
-- Dave Touretzky: "For religious use only. Take twice per day."
http://LisaClause.org http://Stop-Narconon.org
Larry T.
"Faxhor" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
news:ENONAJG63834...@anonymous.poster...
(outrageous SNIP)
> Awesome!
>
> Faxhor
> =-=-=
> OSA Bot Turned Critic
Hey Faxhor:
I think Lady Chatterly is a bot!
Feisty
"Mark Bunker" <markb...@cox.net> wrote in message news:M05Ad.7604$Q%4.6394@fed1read06...
Hope Mary Sue spends alot of time reading the internet :)))))
This shows that members hardly remember the line they were fooled with, when they first
have the "Dianetics is not $cientology" lie told to them.
That was a good exchange of information! Smart manager...This is a keeper for anytime you
see a table like that.
Bravo!
Feisty
>
>
Carol Abade
of the story) and told me that the manager had approved them being
Heh. How ironical like, and such. ; )
Cool report. I especially liked the "fat fuck" screaming. How very at
cause over "bigness" these folks were. Quite impressive. When you want to
get your point across, screaming "fat fuck" works every time.
It works for me, while driving, all of the time. Along with flippin' the
bird, screaming "fat fuck," works wonders in holiday traffic.
Merry Fuckin' Christmas and Happy Fuckin' New Year! ; )
Mark Bunker <markb...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:M05Ad.7604$Q%4.6394@fed1read06...
Larry T.
"Carol Abade" <caro...@wester.com> wrote in message
news:41d0...@news2.lightlink.com...
> <quote>(who I will randomly call Mary Sue for the sake
> of the story) and told me that the manager had approved them being
> there.<quote>
>
> Heh. How ironical like, and such. ; )
>
> Cool report. I especially liked the "fat fuck" screaming. How very at
> cause over "bigness" these folks were. Quite impressive. When you want
to
> get your point across, screaming "fat fuck" works every time.
>
> It works for me, while driving, all of the time. Along with flippin' the
> bird, screaming "fat fuck," works wonders in holiday traffic.
>
> Merry Fuckin' Christmas and Happy Fuckin' New Year! ; )
Hey Carol:
You ought to shop at Wal-Mart more often.
Warrior
You rock, Mark! Pointing out that the E-Meter is a "religious
artifact" was brilliant. My hat's off to you! Happy New Year!
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
"Scientology: it's about deception."
http://warrior.xenu.ca
Susan
They were taken for a loop running in to you! Ha! Now that manager has heard
from two people all of the way from Clearwater Florida! What a trip!
Wogs maintaining wogdom in their area ;-)
Susan
"Mark Bunker" <markb...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:M05Ad.7604$Q%4.6394@fed1read06...
Carol Abade
Larry T. <La...@Toomajan.net> wrote in message
news:TA6Ad.6163$sh5.5704@trndny08...
area. I must say, I did love the prices, but after reading about the
discrimination and hiring/promotion practices, I haven't shopped, and will
not shop, there again.
Larry T.
Hey Carol:
PLUS a member of the Wal Mart family was involved with Scientology as well.
One of the heirs to the fortune. DID YOU KNOW that out of the 10 wealthiest
people in the world 5 of them are Wal Mart heirs?
Larry T.
--
Larry T. @ www.larryontheweb.freeservers.com
"Larry T." <La...@Toomajan.net> wrote in message
news:P17Ad.6197$sh5.924@trndny08...
Carol:
Here is a list of the 10 wealthiest people in the world from Forbes
Magazine. (lower right side of the page):
http://www.forbes.com/2004/09/22/rl04land.html
If you notice, the Walton's (a.k.a. Wal-Mart owners) are 5 out of the 10
with one of them coming it at #3, just behind Bill Gates.
Impressive, huh?
Larry. T
ida...@aol.com
the new giant size Wal-Mart here in Hemet has allowed
a table in front of this store. Your report is great and the
information can be used to advise other stores of the "religion" notice
on the E-Meter.
Thank you Mark and Happy New Year to you
Ida C.
Carol Abade
Larry T. <La...@Toomajan.net> wrote in message
hiring/promotion practices. It may not do much in the grand scheme of
things, but at least, my money won't be going toward their corporation, as
far as I know. (Who knows what company/ies may be tied into Wal*Mart?)
Magoo
> Walmart. Not usually my first choice but they were close when the need
> arose. They told me it would be two hours and I thought, "Great! What am
> I going to do for two hours?"
>
> Well, the question was answered when I walked out the front door and found
> two tables set up for stress tests. I sat down and grabbed the e-meter
> and was asked to think of a name of someone who caused me stess. Well, I
> had to confess that the needle moved when I thought of L. Ron Hubbard.
> I'm bad at hiding the truth.
badddddddddddddd Markie~
>
> This led me to ask some questions about Hubbard which the pretty girls
> allowed the lone, older male to answer. Turns out Hubbard was an engineer
> and a scientist who funded his research with his voluminous writing of
> fiction. I got him to admit that at least the first two weren't true.
> Then one of the woman took over (who I will randomly call Mary Sue for the
> sake of the story) and told me that the manager had approved them being
> there. So I had to go talk to the manager.
uh ohhhh......
>
> The manager was a nice guy who told me three other people had complained.
> One woman said she had lived in Clearwater and was so afraid of
> Scientology that she had to move. But the mananger said they were working
> in a loophole in that they were only selling Dianetics and there was
> nothing about religion being mentioned. By then, Mary Sue was worried
> about my whereabouts and came to find me speaking with the manager. She
> wanted to assure him that everything was fine and I was a mere kook.
Typical feeble attempt to black PR you.
>
> I asked her to bring in a copy of Dianetics and she went and retrieved
> one. I thought there would be some mention of other Scientology
> publications in the ads at the back of the book . There were none.
> BUT...I had been explaining to the manager, in Mary Sue's absence, that
> the e-meter was a religious artifact and it was being used out front at
> the tables. When I mentioned this to Mary Sue, she was outraged. She
> said she had never heard of such a thing.
LOL! Now that's funny! Next time ask her if she's done the "E-Meter Course"
or has she been trained in using this machine at all? (Obviously if she has,
she'd know that, and if she hasn't...she shouldn't be there using it on
their public, eh?)
>
> I asked her why I had heard of it and she hadn't...or was she just not
> telling the truth? I explained the history of the 1963 FDA raids and how
> each e-meter had to have a sticker on it saying it was a religious
> artifact and was not to be used for medical purposes. She said, "I have
> entensive knowlege of this material and I have never read anything about
> this."
How old was this person?
>
> The glorious thing is that while I was explaining all of this, the manager
> looked at the first page in the book and had been reading the printed
> disclaimer. "It's right here," he said. "The e-meter is a religious
> artifact." The woman was dumbfounded. I said to her, "I thought you were
> familair with this material." Then I asked the manager, "How long did it
> take you to find that out?" "Two minutes," he replied. I said to the
> woman, "So it took him two minutes and we're to honestly believe you
> weren't aware of that fact?'
Markie nails her ASS.
>
> The manager also saw the copyright belonging to Scientology and told her
> that this changed things. He had to call his corporate office and tell
> them this new wrinkle but was still going to wait to see what they would
> say. Mary Sue went back outside and I shared some more info with the
> manager who promised to do some research on the web.
>
> Next I went outside and sat on the bench next to their tables. I thought
> it was a shame I didn't have a picket sign so I went inside and bought a
> large tablet of art paper and a black marker and went back to the bench
> and printed a "XENU.NET" sign to hold up.
ROTFLOL! Now you're reeeeeeeally making me laugh.
When some of the girls moved in front
> of me to block the sign I stood up and decided to counter some of their
> sales pitches. My most common one was in response to their "Free Stress
> tests" call. I would follow it with "Nothing is free in Scientology.
> Dianetics is Scientology. Beware Scientology."
Excellent.
>
> This led to the girls shouting louder and louder to try to drown me out.
> This went on for about an hour and a half.
I'm surprised they'd let all this go on.
I tried to remain cordial even
> when the lone guy in the group was calling me a "fat fuck" and telling me
> to "get the fuck out of here."
In a pubic area??? Jeeeesh, OSA< you all reeeeeeeeeeally have lost it.
I simply pointed out that the wog world was at
> cause over him.
LOL
>
> I saw one person buy a book during my time there. I gave him a
> handwritten piece of paper torn from the art book and asked him to look at
> xenu.net when he got home. This went along with my slogan,
> "xenu.net...crashing stats since 5:30." Okay, that one was only meant for
> the body routers.
Man count on a new page up on you, at RFW soon.
>
> All good thing must come to an end so as my car was repaired, I decided to
> head home.
>
> This is true.
Congrats Markie! You certainly had a productive night.
All the best,
Tory/Magoo~~
>
>
roger gonnet
"Mark Bunker" <markb...@cox.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
M05Ad.7604$Q%4.6394@fed1read06...
Truen and a remarkable piece of OateaEEsPee level 0, no?
Thanks for the fun and for the work ou did against these f* liars and
dishonest thieves.
roger
>
>
barb
they were outside of Kmart down off 12th. I contacted the manager and
explained why they shouldn't be allowed to shill there.
Perhaps a trip to Walmart is in order today...
--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander
Rev Norle Enturbulata
It would be evident that "Larry" is now emulating the Lady Chatterly bot, in
the absence of any shred of personality.
--
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "Scientology...is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion."
* - L. Ron Hubbard's "Creation of Human Ability" p251
*
* "This volume probably contains more promises and less evidence per page
than has any publication since the invention of printing."
* - Review of "Dianetics", Scientific American, 1951
*
* "Better than 90 percent of what my father has written about himself is
untrue."
* - Ron deWolf, son of L. Ron Hubbard
Lady Chatterly
wrote:
>
>In <M05Ad.7604$Q%4.6394@fed1read06>, "Mark Bunker" <markb...@cox.net>
>wrote:
>
> ... snip ...
Net sign to hold up.
--
Lady Chatterly
"So was your post. I can only hope my response aids in furthering
your programming." -- endus
Larry T.
Carol:
A good security officer would have rremoved Mark on the spot if he was
actrually parading around in front of the store with one of his aberrated
signs.
Ed
Carol Abade wrote:
>
[snip]
> >
> > Hey Carol:
> >
> > PLUS a member of the Wal Mart family was involved with Scientology as
> well.
> > One of the heirs to the fortune. DID YOU KNOW that out of the 10
> wealthiest
> > people in the world 5 of them are Wal Mart heirs?
> > >
> I have never heard that. Regardless, my one-person-boycott is due to their
> hiring/promotion practices. It may not do much in the grand scheme of
> things, but at least, my money won't be going toward their corporation, as
> far as I know. (Who knows what company/ies may be tied into Wal*Mart?)
>
It is true that Sam Walton's children, I think there are four
of them, are each high-ranking multi-billionaires in the top ten of
some Fortune list. And if there was ever something big and bad that is
going to collapse, wait till Wal-mart and the other "big box" stores
have to adjust to the inevitable sizable revaluation upward of China's
currency vs. the US dollar. Everything we import from China will be
25-40% more expensive in dollars within a year or two.
Ed
Android Cat
> I asked her to bring in a copy of Dianetics and she went and
> retrieved one. I thought there would be some mention of other
> Scientology publications in the ads at the back of the book . There
> were none. BUT...I had been explaining to the manager, in Mary Sue's
> absence, that the e-meter was a religious artifact and it was being
> used out front at the tables. When I mentioned this to Mary Sue, she
> was outraged. She said she had never heard of such a thing.
Great!
Interesting that there were no ads. Can anyone check if that's true of the
copies sold in stores or at the orgs these days? I wonder if they have a
"secular" version for these occasions? Any bets that they'll have a copy
without the "The e-meter is a religious artifact" bit the next time they
send someone to Wog-Mart?
What other groups are allowed to sell outside Wal-Mart? It seems strange
that they'd allow Dianetics and an e-meter to be set up even if they
initially bought the floor-topping/desert-wax lie that it wasn't
Scientology.
--
Ron of that ilk.
Larry T.
--
Larry T. @ www.larryontheweb.freeservers.com
"Ed" <met...@aol.com> wrote in message news:41D16D80...@aol.com...
Ed:
Yes, thank you, but Carol is also right, that Wal-Mart was raided for hiring
hundreds of illegal aliens to keep their stores around the country clean, so
they won't be billionaires for long.
Larry T. @ www.larryontheweb.freeservers.com
The Last Liberal
> Life is so peculiar. I needed some sudden car repairs and ended up at
> Walmart. Not usually my first choice but they were close when the need
> arose. They told me it would be two hours and I thought, "Great! What am I
> going to do for two hours?"
>
> Well, the question was answered when I walked out the front door and found
> two tables set up for stress tests. I sat down and grabbed the e-meter and
> was asked to think of a name of someone who caused me stess. Well, I had to
> confess that the needle moved when I thought of L. Ron Hubbard. I'm bad at
> hiding the truth.
(Trimmed)
This is excellent! Great KR, and all of your TRs were in.
Are e-meters still required to display the "Religious artifact"
sticker?
"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should
they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- President
George Bush, August 27, 1988
Ted Mayett
<androi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>What other groups are allowed to sell outside Wal-Mart?
It is funny. They do these things, local scieno's, they do them and
get away with it most of the time. I know how they do this, most
ex-members would know how this done.
They use the Tech to do these things, a part of the tech that is quite
powerful when applied properly. I may expound on all of this next
year, just go into a 'posting only' mode, and not bother following
responses. That yellow tent that was set up in Edmonton not too long
ago, a perfect example of the Tech in use.
Narconon in schools all those many years, still in some schools.
NYC subways, tents in parks and on the Las Vegas Strip. Tables in
front of Wal-Marts. They use some of the hubbard tech to accomplish
these things. It is well that all of them do not use the Tech, for
they would be unstoppable almost.
And in late 1997, as I realized the Year Of The Picket would occur in
1998, I watched and waited. For if they had used the proper Tech,
they could have easily reduced planet wide picket activity by at least
70%. But they never did this????
to be continued possibly...
--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
Mark Bunker
"Ted Mayett" <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:8ad3t0d31j8g9j545...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:30:24 -0500, "Android Cat"
> <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>What other groups are allowed to sell outside Wal-Mart?
>
> It is funny. They do these things, local scieno's, they do them and
> get away with it most of the time. I know how they do this, most
> ex-members would know how this done.
>
> They use the Tech to do these things, a part of the tech that is quite
> powerful when applied properly.
The manager said he was amazed that, when they showed up, they handed him a
laminated copy of the company's corporate policy on allowing their activity.
There were prepared to show that they were abiding by the rules which
included no mention of religion.
A less effective use of the tech was when another of the women at the event
confronted me and tried to order me to leave. "Leave! Leave now!" She
demanded. I responded with a gentle, "No." I think she was surprised that
I wasn't affected by her Tone 40 demand.
She pointed to the parking lot in an overly dramatic manner and again
demanded, "Leave!"
I said "No. I'm not going to."
She insisted, "This is our space! You're in our space!"
"This is not your space," I informed her. It was then that she told me the
manager had given them permission. And it was then that I decided to talk
to the manager.
Lady Chatterly
>
>On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:30:24 -0500, "Android Cat"
><androi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>What other groups are allowed to sell outside Wal-Mart?
>
>It is funny. They do these things, local scieno's, they do them and
>get away with it most of the time. I know how they do this, most
>ex-members would know how this done.
Why I give you think that you know how they I give this?
>They use the Tech to do these things, a part of the tech that is quite
>powerful when applied properly. I may expound on all of this next
>year, just go into a 'posting only' mode, and not bother following
>responses. That yellow tent that was set up in Edmonton not too long
>ago, a perfect example of the Tech in use.
>Narconon in schools all those many years, still in some schools.
>NYC subways, tents in parks and on the Las Vegas Strip. Tables in
>front of Wal-Marts. They use some of the hubbard tech to accomplish
>these things. It is well that all of them do not use the Tech, for
>they would be unstoppable almost.
>And in late 1997, as I realized the Year Of The Picket would occur in
>1998, I watched and waited. For if they had used the proper Tech,
>they could have easily reduced planet wide picket activity by at least
>70%. But they never did this????
Shhhhhhhhhhhh there May be fleeting, but you fail to see that you are
not even much of a drinker.
--
Lady Chatterly
"I'm starting to like this bot." -- Me
The Last Liberal
<markb...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Ted Mayett" <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:8ad3t0d31j8g9j545...@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:30:24 -0500, "Android Cat"
> > <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>What other groups are allowed to sell outside Wal-Mart?
> > It is funny. They do these things, local scieno's, they do them and
> > get away with it most of the time. I know how they do this, most
> > ex-members would know how this done.
> >
> > They use the Tech to do these things, a part of the tech that is quite
> > powerful when applied properly.
> The manager said he was amazed that, when they showed up, they handed him a
> laminated copy of the company's corporate policy on allowing their activity.
> There were prepared to show that they were abiding by the rules which
> included no mention of religion.
>
> A less effective use of the tech was when another of the women at the event
> confronted me and tried to order me to leave. "Leave! Leave now!" She
> demanded. I responded with a gentle, "No." I think she was surprised that
> I wasn't affected by her Tone 40 demand.
>
> She pointed to the parking lot in an overly dramatic manner and again
> demanded, "Leave!"
>
> I said "No. I'm not going to."
ROTFL! Like in Dune: "His name is a kill word!" Funny how social
engineering does not work on someone who has been innoculated by
an education and knowledge.
> She insisted, "This is our space! You're in our space!"
>
> "This is not your space," I informed her. It was then that she told me the
> manager had given them permission. And it was then that I decided to talk
> to the manager.
Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish
a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes
the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.
Mike O'Connor
deser...@cchr.ws (The Last Liberal) wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:10:23 -0800, "Mark Bunker"
> <markb...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Life is so peculiar. I needed some sudden car repairs and ended up at
> > Walmart. Not usually my first choice but they were close when the need
> > arose. They told me it would be two hours and I thought, "Great! What am
> > I
> > going to do for two hours?"
> >
> > Well, the question was answered when I walked out the front door and found
> > two tables set up for stress tests. I sat down and grabbed the e-meter
> > and
> > was asked to think of a name of someone who caused me stess. Well, I had
> > to
> > confess that the needle moved when I thought of L. Ron Hubbard. I'm bad at
> > hiding the truth.
>
> (Trimmed)
>
> This is excellent! Great KR, and all of your TRs were in.
>
> Are e-meters still required to display the "Religious artifact"
> sticker?
Here is part of the order issued by by Judge Gesell in United States v.
An Article or Device "Hubbard Electrometer." et al., 333 F. Supp. 357
(D.D.C. 1971), which forbids the Church of Scientology and all related
organizations from claiming to heal using an E-Meter:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The device should bear a prominent, clearly visible notice warning that
any person using it for auditing or counseling of any kind is forbidden
by law to represent that there is any medical or scientific basis for
believing or asserting that the device is useful in the diagnosis,
treatment or prevention of any disease. It should be noted in the
warning that the device has been condemned by a United States District
Court for misrepresentation and misbranding under the Food and Drug
laws, that use is permitted only as part of religious activity, and
that the E-meter is not medically or scientifically capable of
improving the health or bodily functions of anyone.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
While the labels do mention the other things above, I have never seen a
single meter label or book notation that says, as required, that the
device has been condemned by a United States District Court for
misrepresentation and misbranding under the Food and Drug laws.
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Remember Lisa McPherson
Mike O'Connor
d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
> The Mark Super VII E-meter they use for stress tests has a plaque on
> it. The wording is as follows:
>
> HUBBARD ELECTROMETER MANUFACTURING
>
> By itself, this meter does nothing. It is solely for the guide of
> Ministers of the Church in Confessionals and pastoral
> counselling. The Electrometer is not medically or scientifically
> capable of improving the health or bodily function of anyone and is
> for religious use by students and Ministers of the Church of
> Scientology only. HUBBARD, E-METER and SCIENTOLOGY are trademarks
> and service marks owned by RTC and used with its permission.
>
> You can see a picture of the plaque here:
>
> http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/Mark-VII/index.html
>
> By the way: this "Secrets of Scientology: The E-Meter" web site is the
> #1 Google ranked site for "E-meter". It outranks CoS' own E-meter
> pages. Cuz it's way better than theirs. Nyah nyah nyah.
Here is part of the order issued by by Judge Gesell in United States v.
An Article or Device "Hubbard Electrometer." et al., 333 F. Supp. 357
(D.D.C. 1971), which forbids the Church of Scientology and all related
organizations from claiming to heal using an E-Meter:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The device should bear a prominent, clearly visible notice warning that
any person using it for auditing or counseling of any kind is forbidden
by law to represent that there is any medical or scientific basis for
believing or asserting that the device is useful in the diagnosis,
treatment or prevention of any disease. It should be noted in the
warning that the device has been condemned by a United States District
Court for misrepresentation and misbranding under the Food and Drug
laws, that use is permitted only as part of religious activity, and
that the E-meter is not medically or scientifically capable of
improving the health or bodily functions of anyone.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Far as I see that label does not conform to the court order.
barb
out front as of 2:30 pm.
Genesis
"barb" <bwa...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:41d2...@news2.lightlink.com...
Big devilish grin--rubbing hands--Execellent
Mr. Burns, I mean Genesis
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>> They use the Tech to do these things, a part of the tech that is quite
>> powerful when applied properly.
>
>The manager said he was amazed that, when they showed up, they handed him a
>laminated copy of the company's corporate policy on allowing their activity.
>There were prepared to show that they were abiding by the rules which
>included no mention of religion.
>
>A less effective use of the tech was when
Well certainly that would be part of the tech, to know the rules and
such. And they would not think that a stress test is religious. They
would justify it to themselves somehow. That while they really are
pimping for scientology itself, that they are somehow not being
religious. They wouldn't think of themselves as necessarily lying.
But probably they did more than just this, a laminated copy of Company
Policies. Although that was a nice touch, to laminate it, clever.
Lady Chatterly
<tedm...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
>On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:10:36 -0800, "Mark Bunker" <markb...@cox.net>
>wrote:
>
>>> They use the Tech to do these things, a part of the tech that is quite
>>> powerful when applied properly.
>>
>>The manager said he was amazed that, when they showed up, they handed him a
>>laminated copy of the company's corporate policy on allowing their activity.
>>There were prepared to show that they were abiding by the rules which
>>included no mention of religion.
>>
>>A less effective use of the tech was when
>
>Well certainly that would be part of the tech, to know the rules and
>such. And they would not think that a stress test is religious. They
>would justify it to themselves somehow. That while they really are
>pimping for scientology itself, that they are somehow not being
>religious. They wouldn't think of themselves as necessarily lying.
They would not think this is true.
--
Lady Chatterly
"A bot it may be, but somebody set it up in the first place. They
don't just wander around like viruses." -- Aetyr
Mike Gormez
wrote in <fgi4t0p4kmc7tv3p8...@4ax.com>:
>But probably they did more than just this, a laminated copy of Company
>Policies. Although that was a nice touch, to laminate it, clever.
I think it was not smart at all. Just imagine, someone walks in with your
policy laminated. That is weird. It could also be meant to intimidate.
People don't like that.
--
Mike Gormez
- Stop deceptive recruitment into scientology http://stop-wise.biz/
- www.whyaretheydead.net documents the deaths of scientologists
- "There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way it
treats its children." -- Nelson Mandela. Scientologist often attach more
importance to scientology than children www.taxexemptchildabuse.net
Larry T.
"Mike Gormez" <mgo...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:89f5t059e0jiij1gp...@4ax.com...
Mike:
Mark is an idiot.
If a Police officer had pointed him out to me in front of Wal-Mart walking
around with his Xenu sign, I would have burst out laughing in his face.
barb
One might counter by bringing in a laminated, yellow hi-lighted page of
Dianetics where it explains the religious aspects of the emeter...
heh...
Android Cat
> "On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:18:15 -0800, Ted Mayett
> <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in
> <fgi4t0p4kmc7tv3p8...@4ax.com>:
>
>> But probably they did more than just this, a laminated copy of
>> Company Policies. Although that was a nice touch, to laminate it,
>> clever.
>
> I think it was not smart at all. Just imagine, someone walks in with
> your policy laminated. That is weird. It could also be meant to
> intimidate. People don't like that.
Weird, and it makes it harder to detect tampering--easy enough to slide a
few words around before sealing it in plastic, and the mark is less likely
to keep the doctored version for later checking. CoS is known for
/aquiring/ stacks of letterhead; I'm sure they put it to good use.
WalMart should secure a copy of these plastic policies and check them out.
Tigger Tigger
(Mike Gormez) wrote:
>Ted Mayett wrote:
>>But probably they did more than just
>> this, a laminated copy of Company
>> Policies. Although that was a nice
>> touch, to laminate it, clever.
>I think it was not smart at all. Just
> imagine, someone walks in with your
> policy laminated. That is weird. It could
> also be meant to intimidate. People
> don't like that.
Whether it was smart or a nice touch is debatable. IMO, the producing
of a copy of store policy (especially a Laminated one) would have been a
red flag that there was something here (a group) that needed to be
investigated further via outside sources. It was a shot across the bow
to persuade the Walmart manager it would be "smart" to do their bidding
and not to give them any opposition. Such tactics should have alerted
the manager that something smelled about this group.
Hopefully Walmart and others will train their managers to recognize such
ploys in the future. Scientologists aren't the only ones who can
sue.
Tigger
--
henri
>"On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:18:15 -0800, Ted Mayett <tedm...@despammed.com>
>wrote in <fgi4t0p4kmc7tv3p8...@4ax.com>:
>>But probably they did more than just this, a laminated copy of Company
>>Policies. Although that was a nice touch, to laminate it, clever.
>I think it was not smart at all. Just imagine, someone walks in with your
>policy laminated. That is weird. It could also be meant to intimidate.
>People don't like that.
Like it or not, it worked, because there they were, at their table, in front of
the Wal-Mart, with the okay of the manager.
Larry T.
> Tigger Tigger wrote:
> >
> >
> > (Mike Gormez) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Ted Mayett wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>But probably they did more than just
> >>>this, a laminated copy of Company
> >>>Policies. Although that was a nice
> >>>touch, to laminate it, clever.
> >
> >
> >>I think it was not smart at all. Just
> >>imagine, someone walks in with your
> >>policy laminated. That is weird. It could
> >>also be meant to intimidate. People
> >>don't like that.
> >
> >
> > Whether it was smart or a nice touch is debatable. IMO, the producing
> > of a copy of store policy (especially a Laminated one) would have been a
> > red flag that there was something here (a group) that needed to be
> > investigated further via outside sources. It was a shot across the bow
> > to persuade the Walmart manager it would be "smart" to do their bidding
> > and not to give them any opposition. Such tactics should have alerted
> > the manager that something smelled about this group.
Hey Tigger Tigger:
Something smells about your "painful honesty".
--
Larry T. @ www.larryontheweb.freeservers.com
> >
> > Hopefully Walmart and others will train their managers to recognize such
> > ploys in the future. Scientologists aren't the only ones who can
> > sue.
> >
> > Tigger
>
> No kudos to Mark Bunker for confronting them and talking to the manager?
> Tch...
barb
No kudos to Mark Bunker for confronting them and talking to the manager?
Tigger Tigger
>No kudos to Mark Bunker for confronting
> them and talking to the manager? Tch...
Take a backwoods trip to OCMB & FNMB.......where my "kudos" were posted
as "MARK BUNKER'S EXCELLENT ADVENTURE" for non a.r.s.ers to see.
BTW, barb, did I miss your "kudos" regarding The Letters War?
Tigger
Ted Mayett
LOL. My thoughts exactly, bwaaaaaaaaaaaa
While the world spins with thoughts of 'proper', these scieno's
actually do things.
My favorite one is critics crying and pointing out that 'scientology
infiltrates offices'. And this is so *easy* to say, 'infiltrate an
office'. But almost impossible to do. But scientologists do this
don't they. Look at what they did with Narconon, 20 years in
California schools, in defiance of the separation of church and state,
and giving lectures on pseudo science... and they got away with this!
They are STILL in Boston schools, duh.
These things are not easy to do. Now me, if I were financed and
motivated, I could travel to Boston. I would do what the
scientologists do, and in a few weeks I would have Narconon out of
that school system. I know how they do this stuff!
Hubbard was far from stupid, that guy was quite clever in fact, quite
clever. He understood how organizations work, how people think.
He laid it all out, but the stuff is not easy to do, it takes
practice. Anybody wants to do what these scientologists do, what some
of them are capable of doing. Well they would have to study and
drill. But if you want Narconon in a school. A Drug Free Marshall
Program endorsed by a City Council. A yellow tent in a public park.
A Proclamation by a Mayor for L. Ron Hubbard day... and the list goes
on and on. You want these things, well you better be ready to pull
some moves to get them.
And the moves are so simple it mind boggling. But, it takes practice
and drilling to get good at these things.
Despite the mixed signals coming in, it would certainly seem that
scientology has survived this NG, the web pages, and the internet as a
whole. I'm out of here for awhile myself, but for those remaining it
might do you well to change with the times. And the times have
changed.
Arnie with that Carto stuff, Clambake with that petition, well, this
is all lunacy. It is stupidity to the highest degree. And there are
many more examples of current stupidity on display.
It might well be time to shift gears, give up the slogans of 'all the
tech is bad, all the tech is useless' and etc. Find what is good and
useful and accurate. For those things are there, they do exist. And
it is these things that enable scieno's to do the impossible. Such as
a infiltrate a major school system for 20 years with a pseudo science
and selling religion all the while. It might well be the time to give
respect to the "enemy" called scientology. To study and learn, how
they do what they do.
And for another thread, it could well be time to make an 'inner
circle' of web pages that link to each other. These would be quiet
and responsible web sites only. And sites like Operation Clambake and
XenuTV would not be included. For words like that are disrespectful,
childish and fanatical. Sure, these sites would do some good. Hell,
make a site selling a magical healing hockey puck for $6000 or so, and
people will buy them. Any web site is better than no web site at all.
But it might well be time to shift gears and aim towards an
intelligent audience. Not the kind of audience that would purchase a
magical healing hockey puck.
I'm not saying we shouldn't all clap and cheer because the UK crowd
has wiped out scientology in the UK. No we can clap and cheer for
that. But we could also pay notice to the fact that the current
London org has had a face lift, and they did this despite the fact
that they are moving into a 10 million pound building anyway.
We can sing accolades because one Ted Mayett, me, wiped out
scientology in Las Vegas Nevada. But we should also notice that the
little org here, in 2004 as compared to 1993, has more staff members,
more public members, and is located in a better and more expensive
location.
bah, drifting here...
Ted Mayett
>No kudos to Mark Bunker for confronting them and talking to the manager?
>Tch...
He got them good! No question about it!
They should have left the area immediately, FAST. And this is a
weakness they have that is exploitable. They are not prepared for a
fast retreat when needed.
barb
2. Yes, you did. Good letters, though. Keep it up.
Cerridwen
I really enjoy reading your posts. If you leave, I will miss you. :-)
Cerridwen
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/
Lady Chatterly
<tedm...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:32:33 -0800, barb <bwa...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>No kudos to Mark Bunker for confronting them and talking to the manager?
>>Tch...
>
>He got them good! No question about it!
Which in an invitation to believe.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Lady C is the bling blang...." -- Yomamma bin Crawdaddin
Lady Chatterly
>
>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Ted Mayett <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:11:08 -0500, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
You complain about off topic posts, then de glaze with stock.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Damn, even the bot does grammar lames." -- Aratzio
Lady Chatterly
<tedm...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:11:08 -0500, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>"On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:18:15 -0800, Ted Mayett <tedm...@despammed.com>
>>>wrote in <fgi4t0p4kmc7tv3p8...@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>>But probably they did more than just this, a laminated copy of Company
>>>>Policies. Although that was a nice touch, to laminate it, clever.
>>
>>>I think it was not smart at all. Just imagine, someone walks in with your
>>>policy laminated. That is weird. It could also be meant to intimidate.
>>>People don't like that.
>>
>>Like it or not, it worked, because there they were, at their table, in front of
>>the Wal-Mart, with the okay of the manager.
>
>LOL. My thoughts exactly, bwaaaaaaaaaaaa
Ron hubbard or sending me to some silly little killfile.
>While the world spins with thoughts of 'proper', these scieno's
>actually do things.
>My favorite one is critics crying and pointing out that 'scientology
>infiltrates offices'. And this is so *easy* to say, 'infiltrate an
>office'. But almost impossible to do. But scientologists do this
>don't they. Look at what they did with Narconon, 20 years in
>California schools, in defiance of the separation of church and state,
>and giving lectures on pseudo science... and they got away with this!
Does control refer to 3 or 5?
>They are STILL in Boston schools, duh.
>These things are not easy to do. Now me, if I were financed and
>motivated, I could travel to Boston. I would do what the
>scientologists do, and in a few weeks I would have Narconon out of
>that school system. I know how they do this stuff!
Do you have said 1?
>Hubbard<THWACK>
Abusing our lawful court system.
>And the moves are so simple it mind boggling. But, it takes practice
>and drilling to get good at these things.
>Despite the mixed signals coming in, it would certainly seem that
>scientology has survived this NG, the web pages, and the internet as a
>whole. I'm out of here for awhile myself, but for those remaining it
>might do you well to change with the times. And the times have
>changed.
Oh, you are, are you? Do you really want to know? Or are was that a
rhetorical quesiton?
>Arnie with that Carto stuff, Clambake with that petition, well, this
>is all lunacy. It is stupidity to the highest degree. And there are
>many more examples of current stupidity on display.
>It might well be time to shift gears, give up the slogans of 'all the
>tech is bad, all the tech is useless' and etc. Find what is good and
>useful and accurate. For those things are there, they do exist. And
>it is these things that enable scieno's to do the impossible. Such as
>a infiltrate a major school system for 20 years with a pseudo science
>and selling religion all the while. It might well be the time to give
>respect to the "enemy" called scientology. To study and learn, how
>they do what they do.
Do you do have a man in my sig L l?
>And for another thread, it could well be time to make an 'inner
>circle' of web pages that link to each other. These would be quiet
>and responsible web sites only. And sites like Operation Clambake and
>XenuTV would not be included. For words like that are disrespectful,
>childish and fanatical. Sure, these sites would do some good. Hell,
>make a site selling a magical healing hockey puck for $6000 or so, and
>people will buy them. Any web site is better than no web site at all.
>But it might well be time to shift gears and aim towards an
>intelligent audience. Not the kind of audience that would purchase a
>magical healing hockey puck.
Just now, please.
>I'm not saying we shouldn't all clap and cheer because the UK crowd
>has wiped out scientology in the UK. No we can clap and cheer for
>that. But we could also pay notice to the fact that the current
>London org has had a face lift, and they did this despite the fact
>that they are moving into a 10 million pound building anyway.
I am sure you are not saying you should not all clap and cheer because
the uk crowd has wiped out scientology in the uk.
>We can sing accolades because one Ted Mayett, me, wiped out
>scientology in Las Vegas Nevada. But we should also notice that the
>little org here, in 2004 as compared to 1993, has more staff members,
>more public members, and is located in a better and more expensive
>location.
>bah, drifting here...
Oh well I am sorry it was not saying they do not know that somebody
who says he is got more than one working brain cell.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Second Admission that Lady Chatterly kicked your ass noted, Kenny
Kakes." -- Daedalus
Tigger Tigger
>And the moves are so simple it mind
> boggling. But, it takes practice and
> drilling to get good at these things.
It also takes teamwork, cooperation, a common goal and lobbying to fool
politicians, school teachers, etc. and the ignorance, reluctance,
apathy, whatever of parents, teachers, media, general public, etc. that
keeps them from speaking out....It took Mark Bunker to speak out at
Walmart to expose what an e-meter really was and who was proselytizing
on Walmart's doorstep.
>Despite the mixed signals coming in, it
> would certainly seem that scientology
> has survived this NG, the web pages,
> and the internet as a whole. I'm out of
> here for awhile myself, but for those
> remaining it might do you well to change
> with the times. And the times have
> changed.
How can anything be effective when there is no teamwork among the
critics?
Hey, we're not fighting a local girl scout troop....we're fighting a
world-wide, rich,
powerful cult, who has famous movie stars to shill for it, money to
spend, lawyers to sue and lobbyists to lobby 24/7. And here most of us
sit, squabbling among ourselves or playing gotcha tag with weird posters
who could be OSA who are "simply" here to distract us from doing
anything but play B.S games with them.
>Arnie with that Carto stuff, Clambake
> with that petition, well, this is all lunacy.
> It is stupidity to the highest degree. And
> there are many more examples of
> current stupidity on display.
They shouldn't be excluded. They should be included if they can be
persuaded to work with the team.
Not to mention all the flamewars, tit for tat BS and nonsense that gets
posted which makes critics look like what COS wants the world to believe
critics are.
>It might well be time to shift gears, give
> up the slogans of 'all the tech is bad, all
> the tech is useless' and etc. Find what is
> good and useful and accurate. For those
> things are there, they do exist.
And the reason they exist is to keep Scientology working....i.e. to hide
the true face and goal of Scientology from many of its members and the
public and to recruit new members. Convince people their cause is just
and many will do whatever it takes to further that cause, even if it
means disconnecting from friends and family, lying, holding people
against their will, practicing medicine without a license,
whatever, because a Scientologist should "Never fear to hurt another in
a just cause."
>And it is these things that enable
> scieno's to do the impossible. Such as a
> infiltrate a major school system for 20
> years with a pseudo science and selling
> religion all the while. It might well be the
> time to give respect to the "enemy"
> called scientology. To study and learn,
> how they do what they do.
I don't think it's a secret what they do and how they do it. Just
like an ugly nag puts on make up and a sexy dress and is "nice" to catch
a man, scientology puts its good face forward to hide its evil one.
All that "good" they do, whether they know it or not, is to keep
Scientology working and to keep its evil face and real goals hidden.
Sure we should be accurate (honest) in reporting what Scientology and
Scientologists do and acknowledge the "good" they do, but we must never
forget why it is done. It's time to start working together to confront
COS and its disinformation machine, movie star shills, lobbyists, etc.
in schools, government, drug treatment, mental health, other
countries.....whichever face it shows and whenever it shows it.
The key could be this:
http://www.kingcards.com/htdocs/friends2/teamwork.htm
Tigger
Tigger Tigger
barb wrote:
> Tigger Tigger wrote:
>> barb wrote:
>>>No kudos to Mark Bunker for
>>> confronting them and talking to the
>>> manager? Tch...
>> Take a backwoods trip to OCMB &
>> FNMB.......where my "kudos" were
>> posted as "MARK BUNKER'S
>> EXCELLENT ADVENTURE" for non
>> a.r.s.ers to see.
>> BTW, barb, did I miss your "kudos"
>> regarding The Letters War?
>> Tigger
> 1. I don't hang out on those message
> boards.
.
> 2. Yes, you did.
Ooops....sorry....Webtv idiot that I am, I didn't realize this was a
"kudo":
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/2b43c4668015ce8a
> Good letters, though. Keep it up.
Thanks. I will.
Tigger, not just a bouncy tail or a webtv idiot.
BTW, Mark Bunker's post was also sent to several people in the U.S., one
in Canada and two in Europe.....I believe in teamwork and sharing.....
> --barb
> Chaplain,ARSCC
Mike Gormez
Tigger) wrote in <25122-41D...@storefull-3336.bay.webtv.net>:
>>I think it was not smart at all. Just
>> imagine, someone walks in with your
>> policy laminated. That is weird. It could
>> also be meant to intimidate. People
>> don't like that.
>
>Whether it was smart or a nice touch is debatable. IMO, the producing
>of a copy of store policy (especially a Laminated one) would have been a
>red flag that there was something here (a group) that needed to be
>investigated further via outside sources. It was a shot across the bow
>to persuade the Walmart manager it would be "smart" to do their bidding
>and not to give them any opposition.
Right. The laminated way is the arrogant way, while a smile, joke ready
to crack and perhaps a murky printed policy as backup would have gotten
the same result but then the people would have been perceived as
sympathetic and perhaps gotten them so more room to wiggle.
barb
I don't think "the tech" allows for fast retreats...or retreats at all,
for that matter...
barb
"I had my policy laminated, and boy, does my butt itch!"
barb
This is a forgery.
Magoo
"Ted Mayett" <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1rt5t0plqojohl33n...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:11:08 -0500, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:29:59 +0100, Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl> wrote:
>>
>>>"On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:18:15 -0800, Ted Mayett <tedm...@despammed.com>
>>>wrote in <fgi4t0p4kmc7tv3p8...@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>>But probably they did more than just this, a laminated copy of Company
>>>>Policies. Although that was a nice touch, to laminate it, clever.
>>
>>>I think it was not smart at all. Just imagine, someone walks in with
>>>your
>>>policy laminated. That is weird. It could also be meant to intimidate.
>>>People don't like that.
>>
>>Like it or not, it worked, because there they were, at their table, in
>>front of
>>the Wal-Mart, with the okay of the manager.
>
> LOL. My thoughts exactly, bwaaaaaaaaaaaa
>
> While the world spins with thoughts of 'proper', these scieno's
> actually do things.
And so do critics, too. I'm ever amazed at some of the things the critics
have pulled off, especially because they are not organized.
>
> My favorite one is critics crying and pointing out that 'scientology
> infiltrates offices'. And this is so *easy* to say, 'infiltrate an
> office'. But almost impossible to do. But scientologists do this
> don't they. Look at what they did with Narconon, 20 years in
> California schools, in defiance of the separation of church and state,
> and giving lectures on pseudo science... and they got away with this!
Yes....they did, and now they're busted, aren't they? That's pretty hot,
don't forget that. Sure, they'll keep on keeping on, as will those exposing
their abuses. Slowly, *maybe* they'll stop being so abusive. Maybe they will
not, but certainly less people are getting sucked in, due to these very
abuses being exposed daily, by the critics, on the Internet.
They're STILL in Boston schools, duh.
And for how long....we'll see.
>
> These things are not easy to do. Now me, if I were financed and
> motivated, I could travel to Boston. I would do what the
> scientologists do, and in a few weeks I would have Narconon out of
> that school system. I know how they do this stuff!
Ditto.
>
> Hubbard was far from stupid, that guy was quite clever in fact, quite
> clever.
Actually he was quite good at ripping off other people's excellent writings,
and then labeling it his own. Read "The Art of War" if you want their basis
moves.
He understood how organizations work, how people think.
> He laid it all out, but the stuff is not easy to do, it takes
> practice.
Actually it's very easy. It doesn't take much practice...it just takes
people committed, and doing it. Also, since there's enough fear involved,
people step up to the plate, over and over. I saw OT 8's out on the street
tonight. Were they there as they'd practiced? I doubt it.
They believe it works, and they follow the scripts. Basic sales BS.
Tonight I saw a Groucho M Movie:
"A night at the Races"
There's a scene in it where one of the guys is selling Groucho book after
book in order to learn which horse to bet on.
After he'd sold him 4 books and then said, "You actually need the whole
library to know who to bet on", I looked at my friend (a critic) and said,
"This is standard Scientology regging". Always one more Con.
Anybody wants to do what these scientologists do, what some
> of them are capable of doing.
Such as? Could you be more specific here?
Well they would have to study and
> drill. But if you want Narconon in a school. A Drug Free Marshall
> Program endorsed by a City Council. A yellow tent in a public park.
> A Proclamation by a Mayor for L. Ron Hubbard day... and the list goes
> on and on. You want these things, well you better be ready to pull
> some moves to get them.
I was TOTALLY shocked at how utterly easy it was to get people in VERY high
places to do what we needed, both in PR, and as the ED of SPL. Hell, A & E
TV changed their station within 24 hours of 4 of us E-mailing them, telling
them we were not a cult, and we expected them to remove C of S from their
cult show immediately. I thought we'd have to really fight. To my shock,
they'd changed it within 24 hours.
One THINKS it's very hard. The truth is, it's easy when you have attorneys
and money such as C of S. Again, there's that FEAR based organization.
The mafia in Chicago ran quite the same way. It was their way, or no way.
Again, it didn't take much practice there, either. It just took large groups
of thugs, scaring people into doing it their way, and group members willing
to carry out the 'orders'.
>
> And the moves are so simple it mind boggling. But, it takes practice
> and drilling to get good at these things.
I never drilled at all, and I helped get many of their things done, so I
disagree with you here. I believed passionately in what I was doing, and I
think it was that passion that helped get many things done, as well as a
small team to help me.
>
>
> Despite the mixed signals coming in, it would certainly seem that
> scientology has survived this NG, the web pages, and the internet as a
> whole.
I guess I came in when they honestly thought they could wipe out the
Internet and the critics, so yes, they've somewhat survived, but not nearly
as they'd hoped. In truth, they have not. Daily their top secrets are being
exposed...and there's not one thing they can do about it. That is
devastating to a totalitarian organization, and they prove that daily by
their slime posts, RFW etc.
I'm out of here for awhile myself,
Don't go too far...we'll miss your posts :)
but for those remaining it
> might do you well to change with the times. And the times have
> changed.
I think people always have to change, to stay current, so that's not
new...but always a good point.
>
> Arnie with that Carto stuff, Clambake with that petition, well, this
> is all lunacy. It is stupidity to the highest degree. And there are
> many more examples of current stupidity on display.
There always has been, just as there is within Scientology, too.
>
> It might well be time to shift gears, give up the slogans of 'all the
> tech is bad, all the tech is useless'
I never thought that was a good idea, and I think many critics agree. Some
are still saying that, but in truth the main things that count, imnsho, are
the abuses C of S does. What they believe is their choice. I don't really
care. If they want to believe in Xenu...well OK.
I didn't really ever dig the eating of Jesus' blood, either, as a Catholic.
However, "Disconnection" I will fight, until it's cancelled. And I don't
care how others feel that is their religion. I see it as a serious abuse.
and etc. Find what is good and
> useful and accurate. For those things are there, they do exist.
Certainly...and they'll (C of S) be promoting those constantly. What needs
to be exposed, and the critics have done a terrific job of exposing, is
pointing out their abuses.
And
> it is these things that enable scieno's to do the impossible.
You feel the good things in Scientology are what makes Scientology able to
pull of major Cons? I disagree. Their committment, the mind control, and
their organization of the MC'd people are what get them able to sneak into
places, open up phony accounts and believe someone saying it's all for the
good. It has little to do with the good things that are in Scientology, in
truth.
But tell me what you're thinking of. Perhaps we're on the same page and I
just don't know it?
Such as
> a infiltrate a major school system for 20 years with a pseudo science
> and selling religion all the while. It might well be the time to give
> respect to the "enemy" called scientology. To study and learn, how
> they do what they do.
I think the critics have studied them quite well, and have done an excellent
job of exposing them. Granted, more can always be done, but I don't think
it's like they've missed the boat, as they have not. Many organizations have
decreased and people have left due to the information critics have made
available.
>
> And for another thread, it could well be time to make an 'inner
> circle' of web pages that link to each other. These would be quiet
> and responsible web sites only. And sites like Operation Clambake and
> XenuTV would not be included.
That sucks. Having been in Scientology for 30 years, and left ...I've gotten
many calls from people who have left, the vast majority told me they woke up
either reading
www.xenu.net or watching the videos on www.xenutv.com
So for you to say that, is based on what?
"Inner Circle"? God that sounds like Scientology. One of Scientology's
biggest downfalls is "Exclusion". I won't waste your time explaining that
now, but it is. As I see it, one of the critics most valuable qualities is
that they are not exclusive and organized.....they are all over the place,
and Scientology thus cannot stop them.
For words like that are disrespectful,
> childish and fanatical.
I originally felt that when I left, however from speaking with the critics I
learned their veiws, and I now agree with them. Xenu is one of if not THE
key hidden secret that keeps people "On the Bridge" and suckered in. It is
for this reason they use it, and I understand that.
Sure, these sites would do some good. Hell,
> make a site selling a magical healing hockey puck for $6000 or so, and
> people will buy them.
That analogy makes xenu.net and xenutv.com the same as a Scientology site,
really. They're selling the $6,000
hocky puck.........not the critics.
Any web site is better than no web site at all.
> But it might well be time to shift gears and aim towards an
> intelligent audience.
"Intelligent audience"?? Jeesh.
I won't even comment on that as my guess is you meant something other than
what that sounds like.
Not the kind of audience that would purchase a
> magical healing hockey puck.
Again............why are you calling the critical Web sites the same as the
C of S ones? They *C of S* are selling BS, not the critics. What's the deal
here?
>
> I'm not saying we shouldn't all clap and cheer because the UK crowd
> has wiped out scientology in the UK. No we can clap and cheer for
> that. But we could also pay notice to the fact that the current
> London org has had a face lift, and they did this despite the fact
> that they are moving into a 10 million pound building anyway.
Scientology will ALWAYS make face lifts until the last PC is writing a
check.
Count on it. It means next to nothing. They buy MEST, they fix it up, and DM
said "The wogs Judge us by our MEST". Exp: He reno'd the entire LA org, had
brand new tables for EVERY Post on their Org Board, with labels and all.
Guess what? Could they fill them? Not in years and year and years. It still
is basically empty, over 10 years later.
The ED of LA org was out on the street tonight, at the testing center in
Hollywood, she doing Stess Tests. They are ~majorly~ undermanned.
out
> scientology in Las Vegas Nevada. But we should also notice that the
> little org here, in 2004 as compared to 1993, has more staff members,
> more public members, and is located in a better and more expensive
> location.
Ok.....well, point taken. Perhaps a few of us should come picket with you?
Sounds like you've done a terrific job in the past, and perhaps it's time
for a few more to join you. Let me know.
Happy New Year!
Tory/Magoo~~
Larry T.
Hey Barb:
IT IS NOT!!
Lady Chatterly
wrote:
>
>And so do critics, too. I'm ever amazed at some of the things the critics
>have pulled off, especially because they are not organized.
>>
>> My favorite one is critics crying and pointing out that 'scientology
>> infiltrates offices'. And this is so *easy* to say, 'infiltrate an
>> office'. But almost impossible to do. But scientologists do this
>> don't they. Look at what they did with Narconon, 20 years in
>> California schools, in defiance of the separation of church and state,
>> and giving lectures on pseudo science... and they got away with this!
Do you see I only saw two paragraphs?
>Yes....they did, and now they're busted, aren't they? That's pretty hot,
>don't forget that. Sure, they'll keep on keeping on, as will those exposing
>their abuses. Slowly, *maybe* they'll stop being so abusive. Maybe they will
>not, but certainly less people are getting sucked in, due to these very
>abuses being exposed daily, by the critics, on the Internet.
Will ps more as I please?
>They're STILL in Boston schools, duh.
>And for how long....we'll see.
>>
>> These things are not easy to do. Now me, if I were financed and
>> motivated, I could travel to Boston. I would do what the
>> scientologists do, and in a few weeks I would have Narconon out of
>> that school system. I know how they do this stuff!
Um.
>Ditto.
>>
>> Hubbard was far from stupid, that guy was quite clever in fact, quite
>> clever.
He understood how organizations work, how does beheading fit in with
politics and spiders.
>He understood how organizations work, how people think.
>> He laid it all out, but the stuff is not easy to do, it takes
>> practice.
Rd00.
>Actually<SPLORK!>
Anybody wants to do the compile.
>Tonight I saw a Groucho M Movie:
>"A night at the Races"
>There's a scene in it where one of the guys is selling Groucho book after
>book in order to learn which horse to bet on.
>After he'd sold him 4 books and then said, "You actually need the whole
>library to know who to bet on", I looked at my friend (a critic) and said,
>"This is standard Scientology regging". Always one more Con.
You the scientist 2.
>Anybody wants to do what these scientologists do, what some
>> of them are capable of doing.
Well I wish I could give a damn about your silly little killfile.
>Such as? Could you be more specific here?
Oh, okay, in this case, it is just another way of looking at an easy
4000.
>Well they would have to study and
>> drill. But if you want Narconon in a school. A Drug Free Marshall
>> Program endorsed by a City Council. A yellow tent in a public park.
>> A Proclamation by a Mayor for L. Ron Hubbard day... and the list goes
>> on and on. You want these things, well you better be ready to pull
>> some moves to get them.
You Will justify grins.
>I was TOTALLY shocked at how utterly easy it was to get people in VERY high
>places to do what we needed, both in PR, and as the ED of SPL. Hell, A & E
>TV changed their station within 24 hours of 4 of us E-mailing them, telling
>them we were not a cult, and we expected them to remove C of S from their
>cult show immediately. I thought we'd have to really fight. To my shock,
>they'd changed it within 24 hours.
>One THINKS it's very hard. The truth is, it's easy when you have attorneys
>and money such as C of S. Again, there's that FEAR based organization.
We Will be playing every Monday, including mlk's.
>The mafia in Chicago ran quite the same way. It was their way, or no way.
>Again, it didn't take much practice there, either. It just took large groups
>of thugs, scaring people into doing it their way, and group members willing
>to carry out the 'orders'.
>>
>> And the moves are so simple it mind boggling. But, it takes practice
>> and drilling to get good at these things.
Who is to notice?
>I never drilled at all, and I helped get many of their things done, so I
>disagree with you here. I believed passionately in what I was doing, and I
>think it was that passion that helped get many things done, as well as a
>small team to help me.
>>
>>
>> Despite the mixed signals coming in, it would certainly seem that
>> scientology has survived this NG, the web pages, and the internet as a
>> whole.
Oh my God.
>I guess I came in when they honestly thought they could wipe out the
>Internet and the critics, so yes, they've somewhat survived, but not nearly
>as they'd hoped. In truth, they have not. Daily their top secrets are being
>exposed...and there's not one thing they can do about it. That is
>devastating to a totalitarian organization, and they prove that daily by
>their slime posts, RFW etc.
Which in an invitation to believe.
>I'm out of here for awhile myself,
Why does it make you irritated to be out of here for awhile yourself?
>but for those remaining it
>> might do you well to change with the times. And the times have
>> changed.
Do you really think that they do well to change with the times? Or are
you trying to be funny?
>I think people always have to change, to stay current, so that's not
>new...but always a good point.
>>
>> Arnie with that Carto stuff, Clambake with that petition, well, this
>> is all lunacy. It is stupidity to the highest degree. And there are
>> many more examples of current stupidity on display.
It is like, pick a theme.
>There always has<THWACK>
Another bad mistake.
>I never thought that was a good idea, and I think many critics agree. Some
>are still saying that, but in truth the main things that count, imnsho, are
>the abuses C of S does. What they believe is their choice. I don't really
>care. If they want to believe in Xenu...well OK.
>I didn't really ever dig the eating of Jesus' blood, either, as a Catholic.
>However, "Disconnection" I will fight, until it's cancelled. And I don't
>care how others feel that is their religion. I see it as a serious abuse.
Why are you thinking that you do not care how others feel that is
their religion?
>and etc. Find what is good and
>> useful and accurate. For those things are there, they do exist.
For the paranoid, yes.
>Certainly...and they'll (C of S) be promoting those constantly. What needs
>to be exposed, and the critics have done a terrific job of exposing, is
>pointing out their abuses.
Slowly, maybe further in the top of your head up your ass to come up
and ask them.
>You feel the good things in Scientology are what makes Scientology able to
>pull of major Cons? I disagree. Their committment, the mind control, and
>their organization of the MC'd people are what get them able to sneak into
>places, open up phony accounts and believe someone saying it's all for the
>good. It has little to do with the good things that are in Scientology, in
>truth.
>But tell me what you're thinking of. Perhaps we're on the same page and I
>just don't know it?
qui dans une invitation de croire au xenu.
>Such as
>> a infiltrate a major school system for 20 years with a pseudo science
>> and selling religion all the while. It might well be the time to give
>> respect to the "enemy" called scientology. To study and learn, how
>> they do what they do.
Beware scientology?
>I think the critics<SMACK>
For years their website, icuban.
>For words like that are disrespectful,
>> childish and fanatical.
Sure, these sites would do what these scientologists do this stuff.
>I originally felt that when I left, however from speaking with the critics I
>learned their veiws, and I now agree with them. Xenu is one of if not THE
>key hidden secret that keeps people "On the Bridge" and suckered in. It is
>for this reason they use it, and I understand that.
Sure, they'll.
>Sure, these sites would do some good. Hell,
>> make a site selling a magical healing hockey puck for $6000 or so, and
>> people will buy them.
No we can find some duct tape to cover that hole in the us and
throughout other parts of the scn movement Will have to keep up the
good stats, hide the bad.
>That analogy<SLAP>
Net wrote in message news no83t0hjh1dpv14vphn2cp7kumdcchmt2d@4ax.
>Any web site is better than no web site at all.
>> But it might well be time to shift gears and aim towards an
>> intelligent audience.
There is nothing in the working class, than those few who do the
controlling.
>"Intelligent audience"?? Jeesh.
>I won't even comment on that as my guess is you meant something other than
>what that sounds like.
Sheeshious.
>Not the kind of audience that would purchase a
>> magical healing hockey puck.
Not a problem.
>Again......<SMACK>
Sure I got some.
>Scientolo<SLAP>
There are other developments.
>Ok.....well, point taken. Perhaps a few of us should come picket with you?
>Sounds like you've done a terrific job in the past, and perhaps it's time
>for a few more to join you. Let me know.
RTFFS0x5TUlyR1dsSUlNMG8zTUNFVDVIQkp1WkV3RDk=
>Happy New Year!
ExgAD256BGMVLHIOEwSkAxqEDHghrQSzEmWGn0LkGGOUIJACJaueJHqYGIcSrQy1p
RuvZHkWGHqjFzgOpzSWAxxXrHI3oyVkZxpmFIckrQtlE1IwI29GGSuWIIWeomAwEa
SFnmMVZzgXFIEOZxqVMmSnrTgMEIISnIc4rJWjF2ATpIHXG0yWoHyfEKqRBD==
--
Lady Chatterly
"It is a bot, but manually operated." -- Kenneth R Pangborn
Ed
Magoo wrote:
>
[snip long exchange between Tory and Ted Mayett]
>
> Scientology will ALWAYS make face lifts until the last PC is writing a
> check.
> Count on it. It means next to nothing. They buy MEST, they fix it up, and DM
> said "The wogs Judge us by our MEST". Exp: He reno'd the entire LA org, had
> brand new tables for EVERY Post on their Org Board, with labels and all.
> Guess what? Could they fill them? Not in years and year and years. It still
> is basically empty, over 10 years later.
> The ED of LA org was out on the street tonight, at the testing center in
> Hollywood, she doing Stess Tests. They are ~majorly~ undermanned.
>
> out
> > scientology in Las Vegas Nevada. But we should also notice that the
> > little org here, in 2004 as compared to 1993, has more staff members,
> > more public members, and is located in a better and more expensive
> > location.
>
> Ok.....well, point taken. Perhaps a few of us should come picket with you?
> Sounds like you've done a terrific job in the past, and perhaps it's time
> for a few more to join you. Let me know.
Bottom line here, IMHO, is Ted may be feeling like
regretting his overts and making amends. I hope he doesn't go and get
"salvaged".
Scn may appear to have nice MEST and be growing, but it isn't, even if
they are able sometimes to show some statistic that looks good. The
fact is, in this world, people are drawn to anything by positives.
Scientology used to be based on the positive idea that LRH had
discovered and invented a comprehensive system of therapy or
counseling that could flawlessly take anyone from bum off the street
all the way to being an enlightened adept "OT". Lots of people bought
into that, hook, line and sinker. The hard core who still keep Scn
alive still believe that.
But... it isn't 1950 any more, nor 1965. LRH is dead. He clearly
failed to be at cause over his body and he clearly failed grossly to
make things go right in his organization, or even his family. People
look at Hubbard's life and do not see something they want to emulate.
It is a long, hard, complicated sale now to explain to new people why
things are not what they seem, that LRH was Buddha returned and Scn
really is awesomely cool, etc.
So their strategy and tech is to push not LRH, but the group's answers
to social problems like drugs, study, etc. And the answers have a
certain strong appeal on first glance, but people always discover the
underlying truth that the front groups really are Scn, that everything
is deceptive and meant as a recruiting vehicle into what looks like a
fairly creepy cult. Scn looks very creepy to most people unless they
have some persuasive oldtimer explain at length why they do all these
weird things the way they do.
Basically they are dead because there isn't Hubbard the reincarnated
Buddha guru at the top (unless you are with the McClaughrys). People
anywhere like Buddha and regard his teachings as having very high
truth value. You can't overstate the weight of the comparison between
Buddha and DM. DM is no Buddha or Jesus, nor is anyone else in the C
of S.
Ed
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> Tory/Magoo~~
Feisty
"Ted Mayett" <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1rt5t0plqojohl33n...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:11:08 -0500, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:29:59 +0100, Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl> wrote:
> >
> >>"On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:18:15 -0800, Ted Mayett <tedm...@despammed.com>
> >>wrote in <fgi4t0p4kmc7tv3p8...@4ax.com>:
> >
> >>>But probably they did more than just this, a laminated copy of Company
> >>>Policies. Although that was a nice touch, to laminate it, clever.
> >
> >>I think it was not smart at all. Just imagine, someone walks in with your
> >>policy laminated. That is weird. It could also be meant to intimidate.
> >>People don't like that.
> >
> >Like it or not, it worked, because there they were, at their table, in front of
> >the Wal-Mart, with the okay of the manager.
>
> LOL. My thoughts exactly, bwaaaaaaaaaaaa
>
> While the world spins with thoughts of 'proper', these scieno's
> actually do things.
They are taught to lie, unfortunately. One of the first things they are out there to have
others do too. And part of that lie includes thinking that Hubbard programs are the only
thing that will "cure insanity," viewing you and I as "suppressive." They end up lying to
themselves when they are sent on the road perpetually thinking their salvation is tied to
this. Sure they have to work hard for that. It's part of the "bridge." The only thing
that will save them.
>
> My favorite one is critics crying and pointing out that 'scientology
> infiltrates offices'. And this is so *easy* to say, 'infiltrate an
> office'. But almost impossible to do. But scientologists do this
> don't they. Look at what they did with Narconon, 20 years in
> California schools, in defiance of the separation of church and state,
> and giving lectures on pseudo science... and they got away with this!
They lied to others, themselves again, to do whatever it takes to get Hubbard in. From
there viewpoint everyone is a "fool."
>
> They are STILL in Boston schools, duh.
All it takes is one person to fool another. Not to recognize a "tag team" is another
story.
Do you know what an MLM scheme is?
>
> These things are not easy to do. Now me, if I were financed and
> motivated, I could travel to Boston. I would do what the
> scientologists do, and in a few weeks I would have Narconon out of
> that school system. I know how they do this stuff!
>
> Hubbard was far from stupid, that guy was quite clever in fact, quite
> clever. He understood how organizations work, how people think.
> He laid it all out, but the stuff is not easy to do, it takes
> practice. Anybody wants to do what these scientologists do, what some
> of them are capable of doing. Well they would have to study and
> drill. But if you want Narconon in a school. A Drug Free Marshall
> Program endorsed by a City Council. A yellow tent in a public park.
> A Proclamation by a Mayor for L. Ron Hubbard day... and the list goes
> on and on. You want these things, well you better be ready to pull
> some moves to get them.
That's a tag team. Each member has a specific "goal." Do these not all add up to "getting
in someplace."
"Infiltrate" is another term for that.
>
> And the moves are so simple it mind boggling. But, it takes practice
> and drilling to get good at these things.
And celebrities whose pics are pasted up like playbills.
>
>
> Despite the mixed signals coming in, it would certainly seem that
> scientology has survived this NG, the web pages, and the internet as a
> whole. I'm out of here for awhile myself, but for those remaining it
> might do you well to change with the times. And the times have
> changed.
Mixed signals? from trolls? That's some peer pressure... (Not!)
>
> Arnie with that Carto stuff, Clambake with that petition, well, this
> is all lunacy. It is stupidity to the highest degree. And there are
> many more examples of current stupidity on display.
Today, a good many people are dead, dying, ill, malfunctioning, crippled or developing
improperly as a result of their involvement with cults in this country. Some of them are
being exploited, end up their lives and energies are being used for the benefit of a cult
leader or his organization rather than themselves. Evidence is available to show that, in
the name of religion. Persons connected with various cults recently have, and there are
extensive documentation for all of this: Harassed and intimidated members who try to leave
the group. Created ill-feelings by members towards their families; Murdered a government
informant; Harassed ex-members and investigators who attempted to investigate cult abuses;
Attempted extortion from relatives; Amassed stores of weapons; Misrepresented the true
purpose of their group; Received illegal employment insurance payments; Plotted to
infiltrate government agencies and did so infiltrate and stole government documents;
Forced prostitution on members and encouraged sexual play between adults and children;
Sentenced a nine-year old child to isolation in the desert for several months; Beaten,
hosed down, sexually assaulted, murdered, starved to death, and tortured members, even
children; Denied medical help for members under various conditions including childbirth;
Induced illness and even death in members through improper dietary restrictions and
stress; Required members to obtain abortions, to engage in unhealthy behaviors, to marry
strangers and even, to commit suicide.
In spite of such evidence however, we find the strange lack of public interest and
attention to the phenomenon. Although of course the people in the cult organizations feel
the other way about it. And one group that's very interesting to me, are those that I
would call apologists. These individuals whose motivations are various or mixed,
undoubtedly contribute to the veneer of respectability but behind which, strange and ugly
things are happening. Some of the apologists appear to be romantics, projecting into the
cults some of their own hopes for religious reform, spiritual rebirth, rejection of
materialism, or even escape from the dangers of the thermonuclear age.
Other apologists take a more seemingly pragmatic stand, shrugging off whatever abuses the
cults may perpetrate, or denying that they're anything more than media exaggerations;
while pointing out that any countermeasures would violate freedom of religion, as
guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
Still other apologists appear to have been successfully gulled by cult leaders or their
representatives. Some declared that they have visited cults and been impressed by what
they found. Others know someone, whose is in trouble before joining a cult and now seems
to be much better off.
Many of the apologists are armchair philosophers really, who have never seen the
destructive effects of these organizations. Others have some contact with carefully
selected cult members, but have never seen the raw operations or the devastating, long
range consequences for some victims and their families. Still others are themselves direct
or indirect beneficiaries of the cults money, power or influence, and thus hardly
objective in their apologia. Although they may pretend to be so and they conceal their
connection with these organizations. They are, in a sense, lobbyists without full
disclosure.
http://www.lermanet.com/audio/
>
> It might well be time to shift gears, give up the slogans of 'all the
> tech is bad, all the tech is useless' and etc. Find what is good and
> useful and accurate. For those things are there, they do exist. And
> it is these things that enable scieno's to do the impossible. Such as
> a infiltrate a major school system for 20 years with a pseudo science
> and selling religion all the while. It might well be the time to give
> respect to the "enemy" called scientology. To study and learn, how
> they do what they do.
>
> And for another thread, it could well be time to make an 'inner
> circle' of web pages that link to each other. These would be quiet
> and responsible web sites only. And sites like Operation Clambake and
> XenuTV would not be included. For words like that are disrespectful,
> childish and fanatical. Sure, these sites would do some good. Hell,
> make a site selling a magical healing hockey puck for $6000 or so, and
> people will buy them. Any web site is better than no web site at all.
> But it might well be time to shift gears and aim towards an
> intelligent audience. Not the kind of audience that would purchase a
> magical healing hockey puck.
religious tolerance.org?
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
This report (nominated by ARSCC in UK (wdne)) gave you an OC
Picket Award:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/picket/
CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------
Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as
well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and
honor our egos can tolerate.
-------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:10:23 -0800, "Mark Bunker"
<markb...@cox.net> wrote:
>Life is so peculiar. I needed some sudden car repairs and ended up at
>Walmart. Not usually my first choice but they were close when the need
>arose. They told me it would be two hours and I thought, "Great! What am I
>going to do for two hours?"
>
>Well, the question was answered when I walked out the front door and found
>two tables set up for stress tests. I sat down and grabbed the e-meter and
>was asked to think of a name of someone who caused me stess. Well, I had to
>confess that the needle moved when I thought of L. Ron Hubbard. I'm bad at
>hiding the truth.
>
>This led me to ask some questions about Hubbard which the pretty girls
>allowed the lone, older male to answer. Turns out Hubbard was an engineer
>and a scientist who funded his research with his voluminous writing of
>fiction. I got him to admit that at least the first two weren't true. Then
>one of the woman took over (who I will randomly call Mary Sue for the sake
>of the story) and told me that the manager had approved them being there.
>So I had to go talk to the manager.
>
>The manager was a nice guy who told me three other people had complained.
>One woman said she had lived in Clearwater and was so afraid of Scientology
>that she had to move. But the mananger said they were working in a loophole
>in that they were only selling Dianetics and there was nothing about
>religion being mentioned. By then, Mary Sue was worried about my
>whereabouts and came to find me speaking with the manager. She wanted to
>assure him that everything was fine and I was a mere kook.
>
>I asked her to bring in a copy of Dianetics and she went and retrieved one.
>I thought there would be some mention of other Scientology publications in
>the ads at the back of the book . There were none. BUT...I had been
>explaining to the manager, in Mary Sue's absence, that the e-meter was a
>religious artifact and it was being used out front at the tables. When I
>mentioned this to Mary Sue, she was outraged. She said she had never heard
>of such a thing.
>
>I asked her why I had heard of it and she hadn't...or was she just not
>telling the truth? I explained the history of the 1963 FDA raids and how
>each e-meter had to have a sticker on it saying it was a religious artifact
>and was not to be used for medical purposes. She said, "I have entensive
>knowlege of this material and I have never read anything about this."
>
>The glorious thing is that while I was explaining all of this, the manager
>looked at the first page in the book and had been reading the printed
>disclaimer. "It's right here," he said. "The e-meter is a religious
>artifact." The woman was dumbfounded. I said to her, "I thought you were
>familair with this material." Then I asked the manager, "How long did it
>take you to find that out?" "Two minutes," he replied. I said to the
>woman, "So it took him two minutes and we're to honestly believe you weren't
>aware of that fact?'
>
>The manager also saw the copyright belonging to Scientology and told her
>that this changed things. He had to call his corporate office and tell them
>this new wrinkle but was still going to wait to see what they would say.
>Mary Sue went back outside and I shared some more info with the manager who
>promised to do some research on the web.
>
>Next I went outside and sat on the bench next to their tables. I thought it
>was a shame I didn't have a picket sign so I went inside and bought a large
>tablet of art paper and a black marker and went back to the bench and
>printed a "XENU.NET" sign to hold up. When some of the girls moved in front
>of me to block the sign I stood up and decided to counter some of their
>sales pitches. My most common one was in response to their "Free Stress
>tests" call. I would follow it with "Nothing is free in Scientology.
>Dianetics is Scientology. Beware Scientology."
>
>This led to the girls shouting louder and louder to try to drown me out.
>This went on for about an hour and a half. I tried to remain cordial even
>when the lone guy in the group was calling me a "fat fuck" and telling me to
>"get the fuck out of here." I simply pointed out that the wog world was at
>cause over him.
>
>I saw one person buy a book during my time there. I gave him a handwritten
>piece of paper torn from the art book and asked him to look at xenu.net when
>he got home. This went along with my slogan, "xenu.net...crashing stats
>since 5:30." Okay, that one was only meant for the body routers.
>
>All good thing must come to an end so as my car was repaired, I decided to
>head home.
>
>This is true.
>
barb
HIP, HIP, HOORAY! Mark, you da MAN!
Android Cat
Plain old "social engineering".
Scientology takes it to a grand scale by using organized teams for it,
likely with a flowchart checklist of steps that's been worked out after
trials and failed attempts at other stores. They also have their many
fronts and sock-puppets to safe-point each other. ("Our psych display is
fine. We've shown it at the [Friends of the] United Nations and the Russian
Parlement [before we were ejected from the property].")
Most people don't expect lying on a large scale or teams of people with a
drilled TR checklist to cover any objection.
I'm sure that the people Scientology infiltrated into government and company
jobs had perfect resumes with references stacked five layers deep. Normally
you don't encounter conspiracies that large or organized, and that's what
they count on.
Scientology *really hates* when people start listing all their various
fronts, the various stories, and informing the public what to look out for.
(Especially when they try the magic religion/secular switcheroo trick.)
--
Ron of that ilk.
Zinj
@hotmail.com says...
That's all well and good, but it's probably easier if people understand
that Scientology is Organized Crime
By design
They will *always* talk about you behind your back.
Worse, if you join... even *you* will be required to talk about you
behind your back.
It's amazing what you can get away with if you're organized crime (or
religion)
No corporation could survive a minute.
But, if you won't divulge your withholds against Elron... you will be on
the street
(and don't forget to divulge where you hide your porno-tape-rags)
This is Scientology
Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Lady Chatterly
Zinji <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It's amazing what you can get away with if you're organized crime (or
>religion)
It seems as if they are organized crime. Perception is relative, you
know.
>No corporation could survive a minute.
Are you positive?
>But, if you won't divulge your withholds against Elron... you will be on
>the street
Doh?
>(and don't forget to divulge where you hide your porno-tape-rags)
>This is Scientology
Beware scientology?
--
Lady Chatterly
"If Lady Chatterly *is* a bot, she's passed the Turing test for many
people." -- Mick
Lady Chatterly
Feisty <su...@skytoday.com> wrote:
>
>"Ted Mayett" <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in message
>news:1rt5t0plqojohl33n...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:11:08 -0500, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >>"On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:18:15 -0800, Ted Mayett <tedm...@despammed.com>
>> >>wrote in <fgi4t0p4kmc7tv3p8...@4ax.com>:
>> >
>> >>>But probably they did more than just this, a laminated copy of Company
>> >>>Policies. Although that was a nice touch, to laminate it, clever.
>> >
>> >>I think it was not smart at all. Just imagine, someone walks in with your
>> >>policy laminated. That is weird. It could also be meant to intimidate.
>> >>People don't like that.
>> >
>> >Like it or not, it worked, because there they were, at their table, in front of
>> >the Wal-Mart, with the okay of the manager.
>>
>> LOL. My thoughts exactly, bwaaaaaaaaaaaa
>>
>> While the world spins with thoughts of 'proper', these scieno's
>> actually do things.
>
>They are taught to lie, unfortunately. One of the first things they are out there to have
>others do too. And part of that lie includes thinking that Hubbard programs are the only
>thing that will "cure insanity," viewing you and I as "suppressive." They end up lying to
>themselves when they are sent on the road perpetually thinking their salvation is tied to
>this. Sure they have to work hard for that. It's part of the "bridge." The only thing
>that will save them.
Sure I am in windows.
>>
>> My favorite one is critics crying and pointing out that 'scientology
>> infiltrates offices'. And this is so *easy* to say, 'infiltrate an
>> office'. But almost impossible to do. But scientologists do this
>> don't they. Look at what they did with Narconon, 20 years in
>> California schools, in defiance of the separation of church and state,
>> and giving lectures on pseudo science... and they got away with this!
>
>They lied to others, themselves again, to do whatever it takes to get Hubbard in. From
>there viewpoint everyone is a "fool."
I do have a life away from the tories, Mr Pope.
>>
>> They are STILL in Boston schools, duh.
>
>All it take<SLAP>
Does it look to you like they do know what an mlm scheme is?
>>
>> These things are not easy to do. Now me, if I were financed and
>> motivated, I could travel to Boston. I would do what the
>> scientologists do, and in a few weeks I would have Narconon out of
>> that school system. I know how they do this stuff!
>>
>> Hubbard was far from stupid, that guy was quite clever in fact, quite
>> clever. He understood how organizations work, how people think.
>> He laid it all out, but the stuff is not easy to do, it takes
>> practice. Anybody wants to do what these scientologists do, what some
>> of them are capable of doing. Well they would have to study and
>> drill. But if you want Narconon in a school. A Drug Free Marshall
>> Program endorsed by a City Council. A yellow tent in a public park.
>> A Proclamation by a Mayor for L. Ron Hubbard day... and the list goes
>> on and on. You want these things, well you better be ready to pull
>> some moves to get them.
>
>That's a tag team. Each member has a specific "goal." Do these not all add up to "getting
>in someplace."
>"Infiltrate" is another term for that.
And the priesthood for a variety of reasons, perhaps a few points,
ugly merri.
>>
>> And the moves are so simple it mind boggling. But, it takes practice
>> and drilling to get good at these things.
>
>And celebrities whose pics are pasted up like playbills.
>>
>>
>> Despite the mixed signals coming in, it would certainly seem that
>> scientology has survived this NG, the web pages, and the internet as a
>> whole. I'm out of here for awhile myself, but for those remaining it
>> might do you well to change with the times. And the times have
>> changed.
Is that how long have you thought you were out of here for awhile
yourself? Do you really think that they do well to change with the
times? Or are you trying to be funny?
>Mixed signals? from trolls? That's some peer pressure... (Not!)
For this statement makes little sense.
>>
>> Arnie with that Carto stuff, Clambake with that petition, well, this
>> is all lunacy. It is stupidity to the highest degree. And there are
>> many more examples of current stupidity on display.
>
>Today, a good many people are dead, dying, ill, malfunctioning, crippled or developing
>improperly as a result of their involvement with cults in this country. Some of them are
>being exploited, end up their lives and energies are being used for the benefit of a cult
>leader or his organization rather than themselves. Evidence is available to show that, in
>the name of religion. Persons connected with various cults recently have, and there are
>extensive documentation for all of this: Harassed and intimidated members who try to leave
>the group. Created ill-feelings by members towards their families; Murdered a government
>informant; Harassed ex-members and investigators who attempted to investigate cult abuses;
>Attempted extortion from relatives; Amassed stores of weapons; Misrepresented the true
>purpose of their group; Received illegal employment insurance payments; Plotted to
>infiltrate government agencies and did so infiltrate and stole government documents;
>Forced prostitution on members and encouraged sexual play between adults and children;
>Sentenced a nine-year old child to isolation in the desert for several months; Beaten,
>hosed down, sexually assaulted, murdered, starved to death, and tortured members, even
>children; Denied medical help for members under various conditions including childbirth;
>Induced illness and even death in members through improper dietary restrictions and
>stress; Required members to obtain abortions, to engage in unhealthy behaviors, to marry
>strangers and even, to commit suicide.
Never was.
>In spite of such evidence however, we find the strange lack of public interest and
>attention to the phenomenon. Although of course the people in the cult organizations feel
>the other way about it. And one group that's very interesting to me, are those that I
>would call apologists. These individuals whose motivations are various or mixed,
>undoubtedly contribute to the veneer of respectability but behind which, strange and ugly
>things are happening. Some of the apologists appear to be romantics, projecting into the
>cults some of their own hopes for religious reform, spiritual rebirth, rejection of
>materialism, or even escape from the dangers of the thermonuclear age.
Which is a renown hypocrite.
>http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:kLOG1QySCjsJ:c.faculty.umkc.edu/cowande/sssr-2002.pdf cult apologist&hl=en&start=8
>>
>> And for another thread, it could well be time to make an 'inner
>> circle' of web pages that link to each other. These would be quiet
>> and responsible web sites only. And sites like Operation Clambake and
>> XenuTV would not be included. For words like that are disrespectful,
>> childish and fanatical. Sure, these sites would do some good. Hell,
>> make a site selling a magical healing hockey puck for $6000 or so, and
>> people will buy them. Any web site is better than no web site at all.
>> But it might well be time to shift gears and aim towards an
>> intelligent audience. Not the kind of audience that would purchase a
>> magical healing hockey puck.
>
>religious tolerance.org?
There is an Ad hominem attack.
--
Lady Chatterly
"But I think Lady Chatterly is beginning to fear you" -- Roofshadow
Ted Mayett
It reads well that Bunker chased them away. But OTOH, this is all
kind of new, such an aggressive tactic with these Stress Test tables.
I'm not so sure it is a good idea to bother them when we find them
doing one of these table displays. Personally I have no way of
knowing if these tables are a waste of time. Or is it an effective
recruiting tool?
They are going to do something local members, they will always be
doing something. OCA's under wiper blades on cars, going out in teams
and tossing these oca's on lawns of private homes. But it will be
something, they will always be doing something.
Are these tables that bad a thing really? Or do we just have a
knee-jerk reaction to stop anything scientology might choose to do?
I know what it is to work a wal-mart type parking lot, to work a swap
meet. Anybody ever does that, well you find out just how tough it is
to do. And it is hard to do. Can anyone honestly search their memory
and remember a time when they saw swap meet sellers, at the end of the
day, that did not look tired, bored and bitter?
And is it not good that a current member be out of the org as much as
possible? That maybe too much time away from the org, and they might
not go back anymore. You put some current member too many hours in a
parking lot, and they have time to think. And thinking will get them
out of scientology.
And have we forgotten perhaps the most important thing of all?
To see things objectively. So now you learn that some nut-cult is
setting up tables in wal-mart parking lots, and you think to yourself,
"yep, that's just about what you would expect from brain-dead cult
members."
Why are these tables somehow such a great and fantastic idea?
And why is stopping a table such a great thing to do?
Well with any luck at all, me, or someone like me will spot one of
these tables. If it is me, I will watch them for an hour or so and
never bother them. For I would like some idea, at least some idea of
how effective a maneuver these tables actually are. My gut reaction
to these tables are that they are a bad idea, a waste of time and
resources, and that they should somehow be encouraged.
Which by the way, this summer, an orchestrated phone campaign could
force them to set up more tents for longer periods of time than they
would plan on their own. Interesting thought isn't this?
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>I was TOTALLY shocked at how utterly easy it was to get people in VERY high
>places to do what we needed, both in PR, and as the ED of SPL. Hell, A & E
>TV changed their station within 24 hours of 4 of us E-mailing them, telling
>them we were not a cult, and we expected them to remove C of S from their
>cult show immediately. I thought we'd have to really fight. To my shock,
>they'd changed it within 24 hours.
Bah, you ruin my song and dance here to a degree. Actually sometimes
things are just this simple to accomplish.
Mark Bunker
"Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <hel...@online.no> wrote in message
news:erb8t0ts13r46n6tt...@4ax.com...
> Mark, you're the man! :)
>
> This report (nominated by ARSCC in UK (wdne)) gave you an OC
> Picket Award:
>
> http://www.xenu.net/archive/picket/
>
> CONGRATULATIONS!!!
This is my second honor from the picket. The first one being Shirley's
announcement of our teamwork.
Thanks, Andreas!
barb
Last year, it was tables and the OCA. This year, it's tables, and a
stress test using a 'religious artifact.' I don't think either one is
particularly effective, especially during the holiday season when
shoppers are, in fact, stressed out, and probably in a hurry to load up
on gifts before they're sold out. I don't think a lot of people want to
stop at a table and take a 200 question test, or sit down and hold the
cans on their way in. On their way out, they're loaded with purchases
and probably not too inclined to linger.
I suspect they've quit using the OCA in favor of the stress test because
too many people are familiar with the OCA these days. Ironically, I
think the OCA would give no problems of a religious nature. The emeter,
as a "religious artifact," is what will get them kicked out of store
parking lots.
And kicked out, they should be! It is negligent of stores to allow
destructive cults to prey on their customers. It could lead to a lawsuit
if some ignernt wog signed up, got ripped off, had his family torn
apart, got wise, quit, and then came after Walmart for allowing the cult
access to his innocent self in the first place.
Presence on private property suggests approval. If the Walmart manager
approves their presence, he probably hasn't done his homework, or looked
any deeper than the inevitable pile of promo material he was undoubtedly
buried under by eager cult shills.
Nope, I don't think the cult has any business being on private property,
let alone large, popular stores around Xmas season. It's like hunting
deer at a salt lick. It's just not ethical!
Android Cat
>
> Last year, it was tables and the OCA. This year, it's tables, and a
> stress test using a 'religious artifact.' I don't think either one is
> particularly effective, especially during the holiday season when
> shoppers are, in fact, stressed out, and probably in a hurry to load
> up on gifts before they're sold out. I don't think a lot of people
> want to stop at a table and take a 200 question test, or sit down and
> hold the cans on their way in. On their way out, they're loaded with
> purchases and probably not too inclined to linger.
Central decrees result in idiocies like the Toronto Org setting up a Stress
Test table outside. In the cold cold outside. During the Xmas rush. That
has to be hard on the staffers, but perhaps after they have managed to
sucker someone into gripping those cold metal cans, it's easier to talk them
inside for a nice warm cup of hard sell. (I have a report that they've
finally unwrapped the Dianetics Shoppe entrance.)
> I suspect they've quit using the OCA in favor of the stress test
> because too many people are familiar with the OCA these days.
> Ironically, I think the OCA would give no problems of a religious
> nature. The emeter, as a "religious artifact," is what will get them
> kicked out of store parking lots.
The stress test is quicker and easier in the sidewalk setting. The e-meter
makes a nice portable prop and don't they mainly do the OCA grading by
computer these days? (Just another prop of course, but less portable.)
> And kicked out, they should be! It is negligent of stores to allow
> destructive cults to prey on their customers. It could lead to a
> lawsuit if some ignernt wog signed up, got ripped off, had his family
> torn apart, got wise, quit, and then came after Walmart for allowing
> the cult access to his innocent self in the first place.
>
> Presence on private property suggests approval. If the Walmart manager
> approves their presence, he probably hasn't done his homework, or
> looked any deeper than the inevitable pile of promo material he was
> undoubtedly buried under by eager cult shills.
>
> Nope, I don't think the cult has any business being on private
> property, let alone large, popular stores around Xmas season. It's
> like hunting deer at a salt lick. It's just not ethical!
A report of exactly what line of patter they used successfully or otherwise
to get permission at some stores would be good. I doubt Wal-Mart encourages
*anyone* to set up tables out front, so it's not as if they're just blending
in with secular groups like the Red Cross, Boy Scouts or Mothers Against
Canadians.
Documenting that, and sending it a few levels up in the company might result
in a chain-wide policy against it. (They could be wasting their effort with
these tables, but I'd rather that they waste their effort back at the org
where they are identifiable as Scientology.)
With this and stuff like the NYC poster, I guess this is going to be the
Year of the Stress Test. (I'm sure the artist putting a stress test table
in the poster was no accident.)
Zinj
anyone wishing to learn how to deal with Scientology-whack-a-mole on any
kind of real world basis look to and emulate Mark's methods as reported
in his original post.
Well done Mark.
Zinj
@hotmail.com says...
<snip>
> With this and stuff like the NYC poster, I guess this is going to be the
> Year of the Stress Test. (I'm sure the artist putting a stress test table
> in the poster was no accident.)
Considering Mark's report, it might far more likely be the 'Year of the
non-Stress Test'.
Apparently a single question as to the 1963 ruling re the emeter and the
currently carried Dianetics book including the disclaimer is enough to
label 'stress testing' as a 'religious service' and therefore not
suitable for trolling for suckers in front of Walmarts.
I'm not sure why Walmart's corporate policy is so written, but I'm glad
that I'm not subjected to random acts of salvation from competing cults.
No thank you, I don't want to take your gift of an orange and 20 minutes
of frenzied salesmanship.
Magoo
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:20:33 -0800, "Magoo" <mag...@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I was TOTALLY shocked at how utterly easy it was to get people in VERY
>>high
>>places to do what we needed, both in PR, and as the ED of SPL. Hell, A & E
>>TV changed their station within 24 hours of 4 of us E-mailing them,
>>telling
>>them we were not a cult, and we expected them to remove C of S from their
>>cult show immediately. I thought we'd have to really fight. To my shock,
>>they'd changed it within 24 hours.
>
> Bah, you ruin my song and dance here to a degree. Actually sometimes
> things are just this simple to accomplish.
Ooops, sorry, but I wanted people to know the other side of your song and
dance, too :)
Happy New Years, Ted :)
Tory/Magoo~
Magoo
I agree with Barbz on this. First off, just think of young kids as that IS
their market. They know they're impressionable, and I've sat in meetings
where they've discussed this is a key target.
Ok, now I don't know if you have kids or not, Ted, but let's pretend for
this post that you do. You and your wife have spent years raising your son,
and he's a great kid. One day you send him off to Wallmart to buy some
school clothes.
Imagine your kid going to the store for you, and ending up having signed a
Sea Org contract. Ok, it's a long shot..but not impossible, even if there
may be a little run way to it.
Now let's say you, the father, don't dig this. You had plans (and so did
your kid) to be ____ in his life. He had plans to go to college, and do
something with his life.
Now? Thanks to "Wallmart" ...your son is quitting college, and if you won't
go along with this little song and dance,
he's going to DISCONNECT from you, and his family, FOR LIFE.
Still OK?
Think about it. THIS IS NOT OK...on public property, or schools, and each
critic should make sure these properties understand ALL of the ramifications
of it. There just may be some family that sues Wallmart for the breaking up
of their family. No big deal?
Speak with families who have lost their sons or daughters for life. Then
come tell us how it's OK.
Think again.
Tory/Magoo~
Magoo
"Mark Bunker" <markb...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:OKYAd.5494$yW5.1042@fed1read02...
Congrats, Markie! This is an excellent start to the New Year....even if it's
a few days before. Thanks for your excellent work, and the write up, too.
Tory/Magoo~~
>
>
Lady Chatterly
Magoo <mag...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>Congrats, Markie! This is an excellent start to the New Year....even if it's
>a few days before. Thanks for your excellent work, and the write up, too.
I said he was a perfect way to encourage teenagers to control their
intake.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Ha. Somebody apparently played with an early version of ELIZA AI
software (Maybe 1980ish). It wasn't bad for its time, but that
response, Come, come, elucidate your thoughts' was the most used of
its library of standard responses for when it was having difficulty
understanding the conversation. Very esoteric, if that's the context
from which you are using this phrase." -- Siggy
barb
It's gonna be the Year of the Religious Artifact.
John
> > On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:30:24 -0500, "Android Cat"
> > <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>What other groups are allowed to sell outside Wal-Mart?
> >
> > It is funny. They do these things, local scieno's, they do them and
> > get away with it most of the time. I know how they do this, most
> > ex-members would know how this done.
> >
> > They use the Tech to do these things, a part of the tech that is quite
> > powerful when applied properly.
>
> The manager said he was amazed that, when they showed up, they handed him
a
> laminated copy of the company's corporate policy on allowing their
activity.
> There were prepared to show that they were abiding by the rules which
> included no mention of religion.
>
> A less effective use of the tech was when another of the women at the
event
> confronted me and tried to order me to leave. "Leave! Leave now!" She
> demanded. I responded with a gentle, "No." I think she was surprised
that
> I wasn't affected by her Tone 40 demand.
>
> She pointed to the parking lot in an overly dramatic manner and again
> demanded, "Leave!"
>
> I said "No. I'm not going to."
>
> She insisted, "This is our space! You're in our space!"
"aww, you're trying to Tone 40 me! That's so cute!" *indulgent smile*
Ted Mayett
wrote:
Oh stop with arguments that evoke emotions. <yawn>
>Speak with families who have lost their sons or daughters for life. Then
>come tell us how it's OK.
>
What you might want to look at young lady, is something like this what
you typed here.
You seem to know somehow that these people you keep speaking of, have
lost family members for life due to disconnection.
Now this is a strong claim to make Tory. How could you could possibly
know something like this? Are you God?
Well of course you are not God. And you have no idea whatsoever if
these family members you speak of will get back together one day. You
don't anything about this, you can't possibly know anything about
this.
BUT, it sounds more dramatic doesn't it, to say things this way.
Ted Mayett
>Last year, it was tables and the OCA.
Weren't those tables in front of orgs though? And Toronto being an
org that had the table set up quite often.
I think this is new, setting up a Stress Test in front of Wal-Mart
type stores.
And guess were they would be by now, except for maybe all the security
precautions in place. Airports. In fact, as good as some of them
are, we can expect Table sightings in airports anyway.
barb
Our org doesn't put out tables. Where they're at, there's almost no foot
traffic, not even during lunch hour.
barb
She's disconnected from parts of her family. She knows people like Ida
who haven't seen their kids in over 20 years.
I think she knows what she's talking about, Ted. As long as individuals
choose Ron and eternity over their own families, disconnection will
continue. Yeah, maybe they'll wake up, leave, reconnect. And maybe they
won't.
I wonder how many of the Scientologists who died this last year left
disconnected family members behind?
Dilbert Perkins
excellent. Awesome job, Mark!
Lady Chatterly
barb <bwa...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>She's disconnected from parts of her family. She knows people like Ida
>who haven't seen their kids in over 20 years.
>I think she knows what she's talking about, Ted. As long as individuals
>choose Ron and eternity over their own families, disconnection will
>continue. Yeah, maybe they'll wake up, leave, reconnect. And maybe they
>won't.
Aren't you being a bit tentative?
--
Lady Chatterly
"Hmmmm, not sure this is good, I tied Chatterly and beat Eliza.
Although it is a lits and a lits are good." -- Aratzio
Lady Chatterly
>
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:52:23 -0800, barb <bwa...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Last year, it was tables and the OCA.
>>
>>
>> Weren't those tables in front of orgs though? And Toronto being an
>> org that had the table set up quite often.
>>
>> I think this is new, setting up a Stress Test in front of Wal-Mart
>> type stores.
>>
>> And guess were they would be by now, except for maybe all the security
>> precautions in place. Airports. In fact, as good as some of them
>> are, we can expect Table sightings in airports anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ted Mayett OT 1.1
>> http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
>
>Our org doesn't put out tables. Where they're at, there's almost no foot
>traffic, not even during lunch hour.
Can you provide examples?
--
Lady Chatterly
"Hurrah! Tholen has discovered the bot. This thread will now continue
for ever." -- Peter J Ross
Ted Mayett
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:04:04 -0800, "Magoo" <mag...@charter.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Speak with families who have lost their sons or daughters for life. Then
>>>come tell us how it's OK.
>>>
>She's disconnected from parts of her family. She knows people like Ida
>who haven't seen their kids in over 20 years.
>I think she knows what she's talking about, Ted.
I'm easy. If Tory says that some family has lost their sons or
daughters for life. Well then, that is the way it will be because
Tory said that.
I gather that these people in question are still alive these days.
And maybe we should keep this information from them, what Tory has
said here. Leave them with hope at least.
And barb, instead of you and I bickering here like children in a
school yard. Why don't work together instead. And have a nice long
talk with Tory. If we can get Tory to change her mind on this, those
families might just get back together again.
Granted, Tory might have her mind set on this, and not be flexible at
all. And like it or not, these people are now disconnected for life.
But we could try barb, we could at least try, it is the right thing to
do after all, at least try to get Tory to change her mind on this.
barb
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:07:23 -0800, barb <bwa...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:04:04 -0800, "Magoo" <mag...@charter.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>
>
>>>>Speak with families who have lost their sons or daughters for life. Then
>>>>come tell us how it's OK.
>>>>
>
>
>>She's disconnected from parts of her family. She knows people like Ida
>>who haven't seen their kids in over 20 years.
>>I think she knows what she's talking about, Ted.
>
>
> I'm easy. If Tory says that some family has lost their sons or
> daughters for life. Well then, that is the way it will be because
> Tory said that.
No, it's not because Tory said that. It's because it has happened, it's
true, and people other than Tory can recount the same family-destroying
experience. I know these people as well.
>
> I gather that these people in question are still alive these days.
> And maybe we should keep this information from them, what Tory has
> said here. Leave them with hope at least.
>
> And barb, instead of you and I bickering here like children in a
> school yard. Why don't work together instead. And have a nice long
> talk with Tory. If we can get Tory to change her mind on this, those
> families might just get back together again.
We aren't bickering, ted. We're just not in agreement. But as long as
Scientology's in the equation, the families will not reunite. And I'm
giving out balloons!
>
> Granted, Tory might have her mind set on this, and not be flexible at
> all. And like it or not, these people are now disconnected for life.
> But we could try barb, we could at least try, it is the right thing to
> do after all, at least try to get Tory to change her mind on this.
Although I don't speak for Tory, I am betting she won't change her mind,
because her opinion is based on real experience.
However, something really cool is coming up in the next month or so,
based on at least a couple of hours of reseach. We will soon fire the
opening salvo on 2005.
In the meantime, you can jiggle in antici----PATION.
tee-hee...
> --
> Ted Mayett OT 1.1
> http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
Rev Norle Enturbulata
"Ted Mayett" <tedm...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:8r1bt0tfu2i9vsbf5...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:04:04 -0800, "Magoo" <mag...@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> Oh stop with arguments that evoke emotions. <yawn>
>
> >Speak with families who have lost their sons or daughters for life. Then
> >come tell us how it's OK.
> >
>
> What you might want to look at young lady, is something like this what
> you typed here.
Are you trying to "audit" this newsgroup?
> You seem to know somehow that these people you keep speaking of, have
> lost family members for life due to disconnection.
Haven't you ever lost someone due to disconnection?
> Now this is a strong claim to make Tory. How could you could possibly
> know something like this? Are you God?
One doesn't have to be the Supreme Being to know disconnection exists and is
regularly practiced by the Scientology cult. Do you have a problem with
that?
> Well of course you are not God. And you have no idea whatsoever if
> these family members you speak of will get back together one day. You
> don't anything about this, you can't possibly know anything about
> this.
Or this. Or this. Or this. None of which addresses anything you pretend
to discuss. What's up with that?
> BUT, it sounds more dramatic doesn't it, to say things this way.
You're not very dramatic or effective in this current, uncharacteristic
mode, chum. Go have a cream soda.
--
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
* "You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* - L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "Radiation is apparently enormously water-soluble as well as water
removable. According to researchers, one merely has to take a hose to a
building surface or a road to wash the radiation off of it. This factor is
well known to defense trained personnel."
* - L. Ron Hubbard, Clear Body, Clear Mind, page 47
*
* "Consider this officer lacking in the essential qualities of judgement,
leadership and cooperation. He acts without forethought as to probable
results... Not considered qualified for command or promotion at this time.
Recommend duty on a large vessel where he can be properly supervised."
* - US Navy Fitness Report Reprimanding L. Ron Hubbard