I'm now also convinced about Laura
JimDBB
Terepin. I am very sorry to have to say that I very much echo Carol
Giambalvo's statement on this of Feb. 21. Those of us who knew and worked
with Laura at CAN have been through an emotional upheaval more than once on
this matter. In this statement here, I do not speak for anyone else with
CAN...just myself. I don't want to sound sappy but this whole thing has made
me physically sick. I have had to absorb the bitter truth that Laura Terepin
was all along a spy for the criminal scientology cult. This has been a very
deep and destructive betrayal.
Last fall Laura and I were working on a secret project to copy everything in
the CAN Files. The CAN Board felt that this was a priority as Agents for the
Church of Scientology were still trying to seize the confidential CAN Files as
part of CAN's assets. This project was quickly aborted when
scientologist-in-house lawyer, Kendrick Moxon found out about it and dispatched
lawyers to intimidate the warehouse owners into locking us out. At that time
Laura made a curious remark to me...she said that some people were suspecting
her of being at spy. We joked about this and discussed it and then dismissed
it. She also told me of having taken a trip to California where she had met a
number of people...this would be when she met Minton, Jesse Prince etc.. She
then began calling me everyday with no real reason to do so. And she was
repeatedly trying to contact Cynthia Kisser and was upset at getting no
response. I realize now that she was trying to find out if we had heard
anything and, of course, I now know that it was Laura who tipped off Moxon. I
didn't hear anything until shortly before Bob Minton exploded on the ARS with
his accusations and allegations about Laura Terepin. This was soon followed by
Jesse Prince's accusations and claims.
The accusations that Bob and Jesse made about things that Laura had said and
done were completely alien to the Laura that I and other CAN staff knew. These
were serious allegations which are well known now and I needn't repeat them
here. I publicly resisted and denied that Laura could have said and done these
things and a number of other people did the same. Susequently, information
came forth from a variety of sources which slowly revealed a bizarre tale of
deception and a most perverse betrayal. The truth has revealed that this woman
that we know as Laura Terepin, successfully assumed the identity of another
woman, successfully infiltrated the Cult awareness Network (CAN) as a trusted
volunteer, successfully fed CAN confidential information to the Church of
Scientology through Kendrick Moxon and his scientology operatives, and
successfully helped the Church of Scientology destroy the Cult Awareness
Network.
Much of the communication on this matter has been done off the ARS and often
through 'back channels' and this has been a frustration to many. But it could
only be this way because of the people and situations involved. Things that
Bob and Jesse claimed that Laura said to them and that I strongly denied that
she could have said were found to have been said by Laura to other persons.
But because of circumstances, who they were said to cannot be revealed at this
time. But I and others can certainly vouch for this.
The CAN staff were under constant frustration because the Church of Scientology
knew everything they were doing or going to do and seemingly everything that
was said within the office. It was assumed that the office was bugged
electronically but there was nothing we could do about it. I now know with
certainty that Laura Terepin was responsible for feeding this information to
this criminal cult. I know with certainty that Laura gave personal information
on myself to scientology operatives who tried to use it against me. I have
spent the last month putting a whole lot of puzzles together. It has been very
tough to come to grips with the depths of this betrayal. I feel like a damn
fool. Were we at CAN just stupid gullible fools? I don't think so. The CAN
staff were very trusting...we believed that she had been psychologically
wounded from a cult experience, that she had a family trust fund and wanted no
payment or expenses. She worked hard and seemed dedicated and genuine. I
believe that she must have a dual personality. After Bob Minton exploded on
the ARS with all of this she called me in tears. I believe those tears were
genuine...maybe they were for having been caught..
I owe Bob, Stacy and Jesse an apology. I will echo Carol Giambalvo and repeat
that I certainly was upset at the way in which they brought forth their
accusations. But they were right from the start. And I can understand now
their anger. They are due some serious vindication.
Last weekend I received a call from a German TV Documentary producer. He had
been in this country several years ago and produced a show on Scientology for
German TV. He had come to my home and interviewed me on my experiences with
CAN and Scientology. I had not heard much from him since then and so was
surprised to get this call from him. I thought that he must of have heard of
the Laura affair and that was why he was calling and I right off mentioned,
Laura. He said," Laura Terepin...I discovered that she was a spy for
scientology when I was there." I almost fell on the floor. I didn't know that
Laura had been with him part of the time that he was in the Chicago area. He
related how he became suspicious of her and how he tracked her and tricked her.
There is more to this which I can't relate here at this time and I am more than
upset that this information wasn't passed on at that time.
There are some remarkable contributors to the ARS who deserve a special
mention. Keith Henson and some others have done a superb job of digging up
important information and their hand in uncovering the real 'LauraTerepin' is a
story onto itself. The contributors who so rightly demanded proof to support
the accusations deserve a commendation. Karin Spaink has done something
special with her information and reports on the 'two Lauras'. Karin deserves
particular mention in the careful way that she has handled private and somewhat
confidential information. This has been a powerful saga of deception and
betrayal with tragic consequences. I believe that Laura is in danger...she
knows to much. She has not communicated with anyone for some time now. I
would like to quote a recent remark from senior CAN staffer, Marty Butz, " the
situation with Laura does open my mind to the depths of depravity and amoral
behavior some people may go to."
Jim Beebe
©Anti-Cult®
In Message-ID: <19990303031324...@ng115.aol.com>
jim...@aol.com (JimDBB).
From: AOL http://www.aol.com.
Wrote on the subject: I'm now also convinced about Laura:
Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
Minton and his gang have managed to divide the critics in a way that OSA
only could dream about. I wonder how much OSA had to pay Minton and his
gang to achieve this?
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hubbard, on the "proper instruction attitude":
"The proper instruction attitude is, 'You're here so you're a
Scientologist. Now we're going to make you into an expert auditor
no matter what happens. We'd rather have you dead than incapable.
'" (HCO PL 7 February 1965 "Keeping Scientology Working")
Apparently Flag was following Hubbard's "Source", or "Command
Intention". Lisa seemed to have become incapable as a Scientologist.
So the thetans at Flag made her dead.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
******* Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! *******
*********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
* Multimedia: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm *
**** Public PGP key: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/pgp.htm *****
******** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) ********
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Garry Scarff
> >There are some remarkable contributors to the ARS who deserve a special
> >mention.
> Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
> people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
Word has it that he and Monica Lewinsky are involved in a conspiracy against
President Clinton. He definitely doesn't work for OSA, at least I haven't seen him
around the office.
> Minton and his gang have managed to divide the critics in a way that OSA
> only could dream about.
The divisions occurred long before Minton ever came on to this NG, reinforced my
mindless loons like yourself.
> I wonder how much OSA had to pay Minton and his
> gang to achieve this?
I wonder when you when stop sitting on your brain and put it to good use?
>
>
Keith Henson
: On 3 Mar 1999 08:13:24 GMT.
snip--tragic story.
: >confidential information. This has been a powerful saga of deception and
: >betrayal with tragic consequences. I believe that Laura is in danger...she
: >knows to much. She has not communicated with anyone for some time now. I
I am torn between worrying about her safety and considering her so
dangerous that the cult would think twice about trying to hurt her.
: >would like to quote a recent remark from senior CAN staffer, Marty Butz, " the
: >situation with Laura does open my mind to the depths of depravity and amoral
: >behavior some people may go to."
: >
: >Jim Beebe
: Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
: people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
Nope.
: Minton and his gang have managed to divide the critics in a way that OSA
: only could dream about. I wonder how much OSA had to pay Minton and his
: gang to achieve this?
Bob sometimes has all the subtle character of a wolverine in a chicken coop,
but OSA's whole budget wouldn't buy him. Or me for that matter.
Keith Henson
Rod Keller
: Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
: people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
:
: Minton and his gang have managed to divide the critics in a way that OSA
: only could dream about. I wonder how much OSA had to pay Minton and his
: gang to achieve this?
You really are an asshole, Sten-Arne. Jim is here spilling his guts in a
tremendously emotional post, and this is your comment? You know what it
reads like more than anything to me?
Justin.
--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher
Black Hat #1 / Expert of the Toilet / CWPD Mouthpiece
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Vision of Destruction
Killer Rod / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully
Jay Hill
>
> ŠAnti-CultŽ (The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com) wrote:
> : Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
> : people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
> :
> : Minton and his gang have managed to divide the critics in a way that OSA
> : only could dream about. I wonder how much OSA had to pay Minton and his
> : gang to achieve this?
>
> tremendously emotional post, and this is your comment? You know what it
> reads like more than anything to me?
>
> Justin.
I'll be Deanna will post something comparable to what Anti-Cult has.
Jay Hill
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Jay Hill
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Jay Hill
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Jay Hill
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Jay Hill
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Jay Hill
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Tilman Hausherr
(JimDBB) wrote:
>Last weekend I received a call from a German TV Documentary producer. He had
>been in this country several years ago and produced a show on Scientology for
>German TV. He had come to my home and interviewed me on my experiences with
>CAN and Scientology. I had not heard much from him since then and so was
>surprised to get this call from him. I thought that he must of have heard of
>the Laura affair and that was why he was calling and I right off mentioned,
>Laura. He said," Laura Terepin...I discovered that she was a spy for
>scientology when I was there." I almost fell on the floor. I didn't know that
>Laura had been with him part of the time that he was in the Chicago area. He
>related how he became suspicious of her and how he tracked her and tricked her.
>There is more to this which I can't relate here at this time and I am more than
>upset that this information wasn't passed on at that time.
Which one? Egmont E. Koch?
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Clearwater pictures: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4497/clearwater/index.html
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Reposter
Date: 1999/03/03
Last weekend I received a call from a German TV Documentary producer. He had
been in this country several years ago and produced a show on Scientology for
German TV. He had come to my home and interviewed me on my experiences with
CAN and Scientology. I had not heard much from him since then and so was
surprised to get this call from him. I thought that he must of have heard of
the Laura affair and that was why he was calling and I right off mentioned,
Laura. He said," Laura Terepin...I discovered that she was a spy for
scientology when I was there." I almost fell on the floor. I didn't know that
Laura had been with him part of the time that he was in the Chicago area. He
related how he became suspicious of her and how he tracked her and tricked her.
There is more to this which I can't relate here at this time and I am more than
upset that this information wasn't passed on at that time.
There are some remarkable contributors to the ARS who deserve a special
mention. Keith Henson and some others have done a superb job of digging up
important information and their hand in uncovering the real 'LauraTerepin' is a
story onto itself. The contributors who so rightly demanded proof to support
the accusations deserve a commendation. Karin Spaink has done something
special with her information and reports on the 'two Lauras'. Karin deserves
particular mention in the careful way that she has handled private and somewhat
confidential information. This has been a powerful saga of deception and
betrayal with tragic consequences. I believe that Laura is in danger...she
knows to much. She has not communicated with anyone for some time now. I
Reposter
Dave Bird
Cult® <The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com> writes
>Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
>people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
are you still denying reality to this extent? what does reality
have to do to finally penetrate into your private dream-world??
jim fooled himself from believing the truth for a long time, because
he didn't want to accept that someone who knew and liked
had betrayed him to this extent.
what's your excuse?
Dina
>and
her
>gang have managed to divide the critics in a way that OSA
>only could dream about.
-- __
.,-;-;-,. /'_\ : They seek her here, they seek her there, :
_/_/_/_|_\_\) / : those critics seek her everywhere --- :
'-<_><_><_><_>=/\ : is she in LA or gone for a swim, :
jgs `/_/====/_/-'\_\ : that damned elusive Terrapin ? :
........"".....""....""..:>>>>>>>>>>> WHO IS THE MOCK TURTLE <<<<<<<<<
{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/people/turtle.html"}????{/a}
Dave Bird
>A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
>Terepin. I am very sorry to have to say that I very much echo Carol
>Giambalvo's statement on this of Feb. 21. Those of us who knew and worked
>with Laura at CAN have been through an emotional upheaval more than once on
>this matter. In this statement here, I do not speak for anyone else with
>CAN...just myself. I don't want to sound sappy but this whole thing has made
>me physically sick. I have had to absorb the bitter truth that Laura Terepin
>was all along a spy for the criminal scientology cult. This has been a very
>deep and destructive betrayal.
Thank you for facing up to this and admitting it: it can't have been
an easy thing to realise, or to say in public. It now seems that
everyone who once knew and liked the Mock Turtle now accepts that she
was falsely using the identity of another real person, Laura Terepin,
and that the reason for this is because she was in fact a spy.
There may be a few mental-game players (or mental game-players) who
still deny reality for reasons of private vanity, such as Dina / Diana,
but they are in the minority, unimportant, and wrong.
61
JimDBB wrote:
>
> A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
> Terepin.
snip here
Thanks Jim for this very interesting revelation. Hopefully "Laura" will
see the error in her ways and come forward and expose the whole matter.
I wonder if the Pope has spies working the atheist circuit? Then again,
why would a religion need spies.
John SP
Reposter
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Garry Scarff
> snip--tragic story.
>
> : >confidential information. This has been a powerful saga of deception and
> : >betrayal with tragic consequences. I believe that Laura is in danger...she
> : >knows to much. She has not communicated with anyone for some time now. I
>
> I am torn between worrying about her safety and considering her so
> dangerous that the cult would think twice about trying to hurt her.
>
> : >would like to quote a recent remark from senior CAN staffer, Marty Butz, " the
> : >situation with Laura does open my mind to the depths of depravity and amoral
> : >behavior some people may go to."
> : >
> : >Jim Beebe
>
> : Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
> : people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
>
> Nope.
>
> : Minton and his gang have managed to divide the critics in a way that OSA
> : only could dream about. I wonder how much OSA had to pay Minton and his
> : gang to achieve this?
>
> Bob sometimes has all the subtle character of a wolverine in a chicken coop,
> but OSA's whole budget wouldn't buy him. Or me for that matter.
For a million bucks and a hot piece of ass, I might consider it.
>
>
Garry Scarff
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Garry Scarff
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Jeffrey L. Bell
>...
<lots of thoughtful comments snipped>
>Last weekend I received a call from a German TV Documentary producer. He had
>been in this country several years ago and produced a show on Scientology for
>scientology when I was there."...
>...I am more than upset that this information wasn't passed on at that time.
>...
I can see where TV interviewers might see their role to be
observers, rather than as active agents in the stories they cover.
Also, suppose he had told you "LT is a spy".
Would you have belived him at the time?
-Jeff Bell
Hartley Patterson
>
> A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
> Terepin.
> was all along a spy for the criminal scientology cult. This has been a very
> deep and destructive betrayal.
It took courage to defend her here, when you knew you'd get badly flamed
for it.
It took courage to publically back down now you are convinced that your
natural instinct to defend a colleague was misplaced, especially without
the sideswipes and quibbles and qualifications that most of us would
have been tempted to include.
Thank you.
--
Hartley Patterson
http://village.vossnet.co.uk/h/hpttrsn/
An old universe and a medieval spreadsheet
Featuring JRR Tolkien, Charles Fort and L Ron Hubbard
Garry Scarff
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Boudewijn van Ingen
wrote:
>In article <19990303031324...@ng115.aol.com>,
>JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> writes:
>>A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
>>Terepin. I am very sorry to have to say that I very much echo Carol
>>Giambalvo's statement on this of Feb. 21. Those of us who knew and worked
>>with Laura at CAN have been through an emotional upheaval more than once on
>>this matter. In this statement here, I do not speak for anyone else with
>>CAN...just myself. I don't want to sound sappy but this whole thing has made
>>me physically sick. I have had to absorb the bitter truth that Laura Terepin
>>was all along a spy for the criminal scientology cult. This has been a very
>>deep and destructive betrayal.
>
> Thank you for facing up to this and admitting it: it can't have been
> an easy thing to realise, or to say in public. It now seems that
> everyone who once knew and liked the Mock Turtle now accepts that she
> was falsely using the identity of another real person, Laura Terepin,
I would like to extend my respect and thanks to everybody that has
done it, for the honesty to admit to their change of heart.
It must have been a very difficult and sensitive matter, especially
for those closely involved earlier with the person they got to know as
"Laura Terepin" at CAN and (the then) FACTnet.
> and that the reason for this is because she was in fact a spy.
I also would still like to reserve my judgement about that, until more
facts in evidence become public.
> There may be a few mental-game players (or mental game-players) who
> still deny reality for reasons of private vanity, such as Dina / Diana,
> but they are in the minority, unimportant, and wrong.
I only know of only one "mental-game player (or mental game-player)
who still denies reality for reasons of private vanity". He just made
another -quite insulting- posting to this newsgroup, I believe.
I will comment on him elsewhere, if I don't feel too disgusted.
Groeten,
Boudewijn, Kox.
"I guarantee you that isn't true," said Mike Rinder, a top official for Scientology
roger gonnet
Reposter wrote:
>
> Author: JimDBB <jim...@aol.com>
> Date: 1999/03/03
Thanks a lot for your viewpoint and story.
I did at least never doubted that , even if they could very well have
been themselves abused by manoeuvres behind the scenes, there was not
point accusing Stacy and Bob and Jesse or Factnet to lie.
The story unveils and looks more and more consistant. For myself, I'd
say that the best proof i could find is the Laura 's silence with CAN
and ARS. Would she be right, she could very well have defended herself
with proofs of her innocence.
Would any of us accept being scandalously and falsely accused of being
scieno spy, stop speaking or reacting? I don't think so.
roger
--
roger gonnet
le secticide
l'anti-scientologie
<http://home.worldnet.fr/gonnet>
suisse
<http://home.ch/~spaw1736/sciento-vs-internet>
©Anti-Cult®
In Message-ID: <7bl93m$pr4$1...@rambo.bobo.net>
bo...@xs4all.nl (Boudewijn van Ingen).
From: None, I think....
Wrote on the subject: Re: I'm now also convinced about Laura:
>On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:49:49 +0000, Dave Bird <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <19990303031324...@ng115.aol.com>,
>>JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> writes:
>>>A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
>>>Terepin. I am very sorry to have to say that I very much echo Carol
>>>Giambalvo's statement on this of Feb. 21. Those of us who knew and worked
>>>with Laura at CAN have been through an emotional upheaval more than once on
>>>this matter. In this statement here, I do not speak for anyone else with
>>>CAN...just myself. I don't want to sound sappy but this whole thing has made
>>>me physically sick. I have had to absorb the bitter truth that Laura Terepin
>>>was all along a spy for the criminal scientology cult. This has been a very
>>>deep and destructive betrayal.
>>
>> Thank you for facing up to this and admitting it: it can't have been
>> an easy thing to realise, or to say in public. It now seems that
>> everyone who once knew and liked the Mock Turtle now accepts that she
>> was falsely using the identity of another real person, Laura Terepin,
>
>I would like to extend my respect and thanks to everybody that has
>done it, for the honesty to admit to their change of heart.
>
>It must have been a very difficult and sensitive matter, especially
>for those closely involved earlier with the person they got to know as
>"Laura Terepin" at CAN and (the then) FACTnet.
>
>> and that the reason for this is because she was in fact a spy.
>
>I also would still like to reserve my judgement about that, until more
>facts in evidence become public.
>
>> There may be a few mental-game players (or mental game-players) who
>> still deny reality for reasons of private vanity, such as Dina / Diana,
>> but they are in the minority, unimportant, and wrong.
>
>I only know of only one "mental-game player (or mental game-player)
>who still denies reality for reasons of private vanity". He just made
>another -quite insulting- posting to this newsgroup, I believe.
>
>I will comment on him elsewhere, if I don't feel too disgusted.
>
>
Kyss mitt vita arsle :-)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hubbard, on the "proper instruction attitude":
"The proper instruction attitude is, 'You're here so you're a
Scientologist. Now we're going to make you into an expert auditor
no matter what happens. We'd rather have you dead than incapable.
'" (HCO PL 7 February 1965 "Keeping Scientology Working")
Apparently Flag was following Hubbard's "Source", or "Command
Intention". Lisa seemed to have become incapable as a Scientologist.
So the thetans at Flag made her dead.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
******* Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! *******
*********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
* Multimedia: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm *
**** Public PGP key: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/pgp.htm *****
******** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) ********
---------------------------------------------------------------------
©Anti-Cult®
In Message-ID: <kOd72mAK...@xemu.demon.co.uk>
Dave Bird <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk>.
From: very little.
Wrote on the subject: Re: I'm now also convinced about Minton being OSA:
>In article <36dcf776...@ARSCC.Sweden.Dep.OSA.Surveillance>, ŠAnti-
>CultŽ <The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com> writes
>>Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
>>people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
>
> are you still denying reality to this extent? what does reality
> have to do to finally penetrate into your private dream-world??
>
> jim fooled himself from believing the truth for a long time, because
> he didn't want to accept that someone who knew and liked
> had betrayed him to this extent.
> what's your excuse?
>
>Dina
>>and
>her
>>gang have managed to divide the critics in a way that OSA
>>only could dream about.
>
So Dave, you're into changing written words too? Another Hubbard on the
horizon I guess. I did not write it the way you want to show it.
You're sick Dave, but I guess you already know that.
©Anti-Cult®
In Message-ID: <36DCFF90...@postoffice.pacbell.net>
Garry Scarff <gar...@postoffice.pacbell.net>.
From: Pacific Bell Internet Services.
Wrote on the subject: Re: I'm now also convinced about Minton being OSA:
>ŠAnti-CultŽ wrote:
>
>> >There are some remarkable contributors to the ARS who deserve a special
>> >mention.
>
>> Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
>> people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
>
>Word has it that he and Monica Lewinsky are involved in a conspiracy against
>President Clinton. He definitely doesn't work for OSA, at least I haven't seen him
>around the office.
>
>> Minton and his gang have managed to divide the critics in a way that OSA
>> only could dream about.
>
>The divisions occurred long before Minton ever came on to this NG, reinforced my
>mindless loons like yourself.
>
>> I wonder how much OSA had to pay Minton and his
>> gang to achieve this?
>
>I wonder when you when stop sitting on your brain and put it to good use?
>
From: Garry Scarff <dbj...@iag.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Scarff: Thanks Y'all
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 23:45:19 -0500
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I wanted to take the opportunity to thank all those that made me feel
welcome and a party of the family this weekend. I have no desire nor
intentions to post or respond to future flames or insults on ARS, as it
became very apparent to me, despite my psychological & emotional
baggage from Scientology, that we need to stick together and battle this
prevailing evil that saturates Clearwater.
[snip]
Garry Scarff
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
The goal of the [cult's] department [of governmental affairs in
its OSA] is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or
societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of
Scientology. This is done by a high level ability to control and
in its absence by a low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such
agencies. Control such agencies.
-- L. Ron Hubbard
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fredric L. Rice
<sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>Would any of us accept being scandalously and falsely accused of being
>scieno spy, stop speaking or reacting? I don't think so.
he silence speaks volumes. Being a Scientologist is embarrassing
enough and being accused of being a criminal agent of the cult should
have elicited a public announcemnt by now.
Garry Scarff
(snip of crap from an Erlich asslicker using his computer wizardry to DA me and Bob Minton).
Sick individual, but keep on smooching. No doubt, Erlich loves your tongue.
©Anti-Cult®
In Message-ID: <36DEE96A...@postoffice.pacbell.net>
Garry Scarff <gar...@postoffice.pacbell.net>.
From: Pacific Bell Internet Services.
Wrote on the subject: Re: I'm now also convinced about Minton being OSA:
>ŠAnti-CultŽ wrote:
>
>(snip of crap from an Erlich asslicker using his computer wizardry to DA me and Bob Minton).
>
>Sick individual, but keep on smooching. No doubt, Erlich loves your tongue.
From: Garry Scarff <dbj...@iag.net>
Dave Bird
>Dave Bird:
>:@Anti-Cult@:
>:>
>:>Jesus Christ. Minton and his gang have really managed to confuse some
>:>people. Ever thought of the possibility that Minton works for OSA?
>: are you still denying reality to this extent? what does reality
>: have to do to finally penetrate into your private dream-world??
>:
>: jim fooled himself from believing the truth for a long time, because
>: he didn't want to accept that someone who knew and liked
>: had betrayed him to this extent.
>: what's your excuse?
>:
>:Dina
>:>and
>:her
>:>only could dream about.
>:>
-: \
-: Hey, brainbox: this level is you
- \
- and this level is me.
>
>
>So Dave, you're into changing written words too?
-- __
.,-;-;-,. /'_\ : They seek her here, they seek her there, :
_/_/_/_|_\_\) / : those critics seek her everywhere --- :
'-<_><_><_><_>=/\ : is she in LA or gone for a swim, :
jgs `/_/====/_/-'\_\ : that damned elusive Terrapin ? :
........"".....""....""..:>>>>>>>>>>> WHO IS THE MOCK TURTLE <<<<<<<<<
{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/people/turtle.html"}????{/a}
Xapped
> JimDBB wrote:
> >
> > A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
> > Terepin.
> > I have had to absorb the bitter truth that Laura Terepin
> > was all along a spy for the criminal scientology cult. This has been a very
> > deep and destructive betrayal.
>
> It took courage to defend her here, when you knew you'd get badly flamed
> for it.
Heroes are not triumphant all the time, Jim.
Good work on sticking to your guns, and congratulations for being able
to change your viewpoint, nonetheless.
Joe C. - reply to: ronsm...@yahoo.com <- present e-mail address
Documentation on Scientology in German-speaking countries:
- http://cisar.org
JimDBB
>> A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
>> > Terepin.
>Good work on sticking to your guns, and congratulations for being able
>to change your viewpoint, nonetheless.
>
>Joe C.
Thanks to Joe, Hartley, Karin and many others for your kind thoughts and
comments.
Jim Beebe
Boudewijn van Ingen
wrote:
>On Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:44:56 +0100, roger gonnet
><sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>
>>Would any of us accept being scandalously and falsely accused of being
>>scieno spy, stop speaking or reacting? I don't think so.
>
>he silence speaks volumes. Being a Scientologist is embarrassing
>enough and being accused of being a criminal agent of the cult should
>have elicited a public announcemnt by now.
I must still strongly object to this train-of-thought. Absence of
denial (or confession) is not by any means "evidence" of guilt.
It seems to feed your suspicions and I cannot object to that. But
unless you *don't* believe in the phrase "innocent until proven
guilty", this absence should not be used in any arguments about points
like these...
Boudewijn van Ingen
The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (?Anti-Cult?) wrote:
>On Thu, 04 Mar 1999 06:27:01 GMT.
>In Message-ID: <7bl93m$pr4$1...@rambo.bobo.net>
>bo...@xs4all.nl (Boudewijn van Ingen).
>From: None, I think....
>Wrote on the subject: Re: I'm now also convinced about Laura:
>
>>On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:49:49 +0000, Dave Bird <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <19990303031324...@ng115.aol.com>,
>>>JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> writes:
>>>>A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
>>>>Terepin. I am very sorry to have to say that I very much echo Carol
>>>>Giambalvo's statement on this of Feb. 21. Those of us who knew and worked
>>>>with Laura at CAN have been through an emotional upheaval more than once on
>>>>this matter. In this statement here, I do not speak for anyone else with
>>>>CAN...just myself. I don't want to sound sappy but this whole thing has made
>>>>me physically sick. I have had to absorb the bitter truth that Laura Terepin
>>>>was all along a spy for the criminal scientology cult. This has been a very
>>>>deep and destructive betrayal.
>>>
>>> Thank you for facing up to this and admitting it: it can't have been
>>> an easy thing to realise, or to say in public. It now seems that
>>> everyone who once knew and liked the Mock Turtle now accepts that she
>>> was falsely using the identity of another real person, Laura Terepin,
>>
>>I would like to extend my respect and thanks to everybody that has
>>done it, for the honesty to admit to their change of heart.
>>
>>It must have been a very difficult and sensitive matter, especially
>>for those closely involved earlier with the person they got to know as
>>"Laura Terepin" at CAN and (the then) FACTnet.
>>
>>> and that the reason for this is because she was in fact a spy.
>>
>>I also would still like to reserve my judgement about that, until more
>>facts in evidence become public.
>>
>>> There may be a few mental-game players (or mental game-players) who
>>> still deny reality for reasons of private vanity, such as Dina / Diana,
>>> but they are in the minority, unimportant, and wrong.
>>
>>I only know of only one "mental-game player (or mental game-player)
>>who still denies reality for reasons of private vanity". He just made
>>another -quite insulting- posting to this newsgroup, I believe.
>>
>>I will comment on him elsewhere, if I don't feel too disgusted.
>>
>>
>
>
>Kyss mitt vita arsle :-)
Hmm. My babelfish doesn't seem to support Swedish, but I think I can
guess the intent of the message... ;-)
Garry Scarff
> >> JimDBB wrote:
>
> >> A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
> >> > Terepin.
>
> >Good work on sticking to your guns, and congratulations for being able
> >to change your viewpoint, nonetheless.
And thanks to Jim Beebe for his thoughtful and well-stated summary of events of
Laura & the CAN files situation.
Garry
>
roger gonnet
Boudewijn van Ingen wrote:
>
> On Thu, 04 Mar 1999 18:25:40 GMT, fr...@linkline.com (Fredric L. Rice)
> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:44:56 +0100, roger gonnet
> ><sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
> >
> >>Would any of us accept being scandalously and falsely accused of being
> >>scieno spy, stop speaking or reacting? I don't think so.
> >
> >he silence speaks volumes. Being a Scientologist is embarrassing
> >enough and being accused of being a criminal agent of the cult should
> >have elicited a public announcemnt by now.
>
> I must still strongly object to this train-of-thought. Absence of
> denial (or confession) is not by any means "evidence" of guilt.
>
> It seems to feed your suspicions and I cannot object to that. But
> unless you *don't* believe in the phrase "innocent until proven
> guilty", this absence should not be used in any arguments about points
> like these...
This makes sense in matters of justice, though we could also object to
justice because of its many errors, for proofs can be quite wrong too.
The point here, if you'd accept to answer it, Boudewijn, is that she did
not speak; but would you speak, if such happened to you? I presume you
would, very fast anbd very precisely.
roger
Martin Hunt
jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote:
>A number of people have contacted me to ask what I now believe about Larua
>Terepin. I am very sorry to have to say that I very much echo Carol
>Giambalvo's statement on this of Feb. 21. Those of us who knew and worked
>with Laura at CAN have been through an emotional upheaval more than once on
>this matter. In this statement here, I do not speak for anyone else with
>CAN...just myself. I don't want to sound sappy but this whole thing has made
>me physically sick. I have had to absorb the bitter truth that Laura Terepin
>was all along a spy for the criminal scientology cult. This has been a very
>deep and destructive betrayal.
It just doesn't pay to trust people in this business. The more
people you trust, the more people you confide in, the more likely
you will be caught out. People tend to think they can see through
deception, and are too clever to be caught. I wonder how many of
Paulette's points about spies were fulfilled by this woman? She
certainly did do work against Scn in all her time with CAN and
FACTNet. I suppose to combat this kind of infiltration (and I
seriously doubt this woman was the only one; there are others
busy at work right now, and they are in contact with some of the
people who are reading this) you have to either have no secrets
to reveal (ie, keep everything public so that a spy simply couldn't
be of any use in divulging information), or you have to keep your
secrets to yourself, working alone and being paranoid. Unfortunately,
it's human nature to trust people you think you know, so more
people will be hurt down the road.
I guess if you're planning something of questionable legality and
high sensitivity like copying the CAN files, it's best to just
go in there with a 60 ppm photocopier with a document feeder and
go to work for 12 hours a day by yourself until the work's done.
If you need help, try using relatives; it's really bloody unlikely
that a brother or sister will rat you out. If you feel the urge
to discuss it with other people first, resist such temptations.
But who's going to do it that way?
>Last fall Laura and I were working on a secret project to copy everything in
>the CAN Files.
It's only a secret as long as you don't tell anyone; if you come
up with an idea and just carry it out yorself, then it's a secret.
The moment you tell another person, it ceases to be a secret. If
you tell a whole group of people, the likelihood that it will
remain within that group is small - they will tell the people
they trust, and the trusted people will tell others, and so on.
The information simply spreads out in a wave, unless you use a
tight cell structure and need to know information transferal. But
who does things that way?
Someone asked me for Warrior's name yesterday. This person is
asking around. Odd behaviour, possibly suspicious behaviour.
You know what I do with such requests? Ignore them completely,
or give an answer like: "if I knew, I wouldn't tell you." I
don't even reveal *if* I know the information in question. But
you know what, someone will answer the question. Hey, Warrior,
if you get outed, I think I know who's responsible. :-) PS,
this person is trying to track down the real name of Miss X
as well. If either of them are outed, I'm outing the requester;
until then, mum's the word, but Warrior and Miss X should be
alert that someone is after you. Other anons in the past have
been outed in a similar fashion by loose lips...
>The accusations that Bob and Jesse made about things that Laura had said and
>done were completely alien to the Laura that I and other CAN staff knew.
Spies don't appear like spies. You know what, someone wanted to
come over and have coffee with me the other day and talk about
Scn. They claimed to be a journalist. You think I took them at
their word, and just went off to see them? No. I looked up their
history, where they went to high school, their friends, where they
work, former addresses, relatives, I found out what they are meant
to look like, and a great deal of information about them. Why?
Because I can. It only took a couple hours of intelligent searching
around. I hope people have done this with Bob Minton. Of course they
have. Everyone here is at least a little cautious and has a few
braincells to put together.
You know what? This was not done with "LT", was it. She was just
allowed to waltz in and work for CAN and FACTNet without even
a cursory check into where her parents are, what her real name
might be, or what she looked like in high school. Huh. I probably
wouldn't have even gone to coffee with such a person...
You know, I had a good look around to see what Gerry Armstrong was
meant to look lke before I had my first meeting with him. Hey,
*anyone* could claim to be Gerry Armstrong, right? Well, you can
call me paranoid if you like, but it doesn't take up a lot of my
time just to check up on people a little. Guess what? Such checking
has indeed turned up one spy who had personal contact with me.
How about that, eh. I feel kind of special that the Church of
Scientology would even invest resources on little old me. :-)
Still, a few checks on caller ID, a few peeks at ID, a little
time spent on getting to know the family of people can maybe save
people a lot of grief down the road; if anyone has suspicions
about someone close to them, I'd be happy to offer a little
advice, maybe a few methods I haven't mentioned here that could
tip them off about someone. But just in general, you know, be
suspicious of people that ask a lot of questions. Maybe an
occasional "why do you want to know that?" wouldn't hurt. Tell
them that knowing too much isn't good for them. :-)
>Last weekend I received a call from a German TV Documentary producer. He had
>been in this country several years ago and produced a show on Scientology for
>German TV. He had come to my home and interviewed me on my experiences with
>CAN and Scientology. I had not heard much from him since then and so was
>surprised to get this call from him. I thought that he must of have heard of
>the Laura affair and that was why he was calling and I right off mentioned,
>Laura. He said," Laura Terepin...I discovered that she was a spy for
>scientology when I was there."
Nice guy; he couldn't have informed a few people of his discoveries,
could he? No, I guess he just assumed that others would do their
own checking. Still, a little note sent to FACTNet and CAN wouldn't
have done any harm, not that he would have been believed. Hope he
wasn't just claiming "I told you so" rights. Maybe he was just a
little suspicious when he was here, and he's blown it up in his own
mind since to positive ID of a spy. If he honestly discovered that
she was a spy, no bones about it, he had a moral obligation to protect
others in harm's way.
>The CAN staff were under constant frustration because the Church of
>Scientology knew everything they were doing or going to do and seemingly
>everything that was said within the office.
That means bugs or spies.
>It was assumed that the office was bugged electronically but there
>was nothing we could do about it.
Of course there is; sweeping for bugs is no special art. You can
hire someone to do it if you don't know how to do it yourself,
but a little poking around in smoke alarms, lamps, telephones,
light switches, thermostats, and wall receptacles never hurts.
>I now know with
>certainty that Laura Terepin was responsible for feeding this information to
>this criminal cult. I know with certainty that Laura gave personal information
>on myself to scientology operatives who tried to use it against me. I have
>spent the last month putting a whole lot of puzzles together. It has been very
>tough to come to grips with the depths of this betrayal. I feel like a damn
>fool. Were we at CAN just stupid gullible fools? I don't think so.
No, but you could have been more cautious. If not for yourselves,
then for others; didn't people trust you to keep things confidential?
Maybe that's the final lesson of CAN: don't trust people too much.
Someone wrote to me recently about this issue of trust, saying how
could they trust me? I told them that they couldn't - and *shouldn't*
trust me. Wtf am I to them? Some weird guy who posts on a newsgroup;
yeah, that's *really* trustworthy. Hey, I trust my family, but not
to keep from blabbing. Who can you trust? More to the point, *why*
trust people? Because it gives you the warm fuzzies? Maybe that's
not a good enough reason. Maybe, just when it comes to this one
point about Scientology, it's best to simply have a nonchalant
policy of not trusting *anyone*, *ever*. You don't have to be
absorbed in paranoia, and certainly there's other areas in your
life where trust is harmless, if not appropriate, but why trust
people in this business? I mean, what do you hope to get out of
that trust? What will that trust do for you, exactly? How will it
help people? How will it help you?
>The CAN staff were very trusting
I don't see why they should have been. I don't see how it could
help anyone. Did anyone just ask "LT" for some ID, and have a
good look over it? I think I might ask someone volunteering for
a sensitive job where they would be able to read confidential
files for a driver's licence or something. You know, not for myself
so much, but just out of consideration for the people that have
given over of themselves so much.
Kisser was rightly skeptical when it came to claims that "LT"
might be a spy; was she just as skeptical when "LT" volunteered?
Considering what's at stake in each instance, the first should
involve more skepticism, more care, more attention. One is "just"
someone's reputation; the other is many people's lives...
PS, while I'm on my high horse and being rude and obnoxious and
a gernally unpleasant person who asks hard questions even of friends,
I think I would have been more concerned about *destroying* those
CAN files than *copying* them; what *exactly* was the reason for
the drive to make copies of them? I hope it wasn't just to keep on
having a mailing list or to have to hand the donor list one more
time... In any case, it seems like confidentiality wasn't a high
priority (and security was a positively *low* priority). My advice
given five years ago on this newsgroup to not trust CAN with anything
has proven to be correct over time, although I was criticized for
it back then. Er, I gave out the same advice on FACTNet, too, but
not publicly on ars. A few people asked me if they could trust
them with confidential information; I said, point blank, "no".
Please be careful out there, people; and Jim, I'm sorry you got
burned by "LT". I hope people learn as much from this as I have,
and I hope they will be inspired to be a bit more cautious. And,
just in case anyone thinks I'm claiming to be perfect, no, I'm
not. I've fucked up seriously about security on several occasions,
and I fully expect to be paying for it soon - if I were you, I
wouldn't trust me. I've become reckless; it's just a matter of
time before this lands me in a heap of trouble. If anyone's
reading this, try not to be as uncautious as I've been!
--
Cogito, ergo sum.
"Scientology is a ruthless, destructive, and vindictive organization."
- James Randi
Steve A
Ingen) wrote:
> Hmm. My babelfish doesn't seem to support Swedish, but I think I can
> guess the intent of the message... ;-)
Heh. Another "KMA" message. The Germans, from what I understand, don't
even bother with the whole phrase: they just use "LMAA". Which, from
what I can gather (not having had it said to me very often :-)), means
"Leck mich am Arsch".
--
Address-harvester Elephant Trap: nu...@castlsys.demon.co.uk
Do NOT send email to this address
Steve A, SP4++, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12,
pitiable little Dennie (plD) #1, non-Mintonista.
Banned by Windows 1984 ScienoSitter (2e+isp)
"Where don't they want you to go today?" - http://www.xenu.net
JimDBB
>From: mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt)
>In article
>jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote:
Martin Hunt has made some good commentary here and brought up some pertinent
questions. I would like to clarify a couple of things which I said in my
posting
.>I guess if you're planning something of questionable legality and
>high sensitivity like copying the CAN files, it's best to just
>go in there with a 60 ppm photocopier with a document feeder and
>go to work for 12 hours a day by yourself until the work's done.
There was no questionable legality here. The CAN Files had been returned to
the CAN Board (the real CAN) and , in fact, CAN could copy them or do
what they wanted with the CAN Files. And , in fact, two copy machines were
to be delivered and a number of people had volunteered to help out. This was
aborted when lawyers showed up with some legal mumbojumbo and intimidated
the warehouse owners into locking us out. The lawyers represented a
scientologist named Beeny who had purchased the Jason Scott award and was
making a claim on the Files. (Someone else will have to explain this further).
>>Last fall Laura and I were working on a secret project to copy everything in
>>the CAN Files.
Secret was the wrong word choice here. It was rather confidential because of
the destructive and disruptive ac tions of scientology operatives against
everything that CAN did.
>You know what? This was not done with "LT", was it. She was just
>allowed to waltz in and work for CAN and FACTNet without even
>a cursory check into where her parents are, what her real name
>might be, or what she looked like in high school. Huh. I probably
>wouldn't have even gone to coffee with such a person...
This lapse is hard to explain but if you knew Laura it might make more sense.
She is very believeable. Plus, CAN did not have the money or resources for
elaborate security checks and by the nature of CAN's purpose, the tendency was
towards trust.
>>Last weekend I received a call from a German TV Documentary producer. He
>had
>>been in this country several years ago and produced a show on Scientology
>for
>>German TV. He had come to my home and interviewed me on my experiences with
>>CAN and Scientology. I had not heard much from him since then and so was
>>surprised to get this call from him. I thought that he must of have heard
>of
>>the Laura affair and that was why he was calling and I right off mentioned,
Laura. He said," Laura Terepin...I discovered that she was a spy for
scientology when I was there.">>
>Nice guy; he couldn't have informed a few people of his discoveries,
>could he? No, I guess he just assumed that others would do their
>own checking. Still, a little note sent to FACTNet and CAN wouldn't
>have done any harm, not that he would have been believed. Hope he
>wasn't just claiming "I told you so".
I erred here in not including the fact that the German producer had , in
fact, notified someone of his discoveries about Laura but, unfortunately, this
was never passed on. He , in fact, did not know of the discoveries and flap
here over Laura. He was calling about something else and I had just right off
assumed that he was calling about Laura.
> Were we at CAN just stupid gullible fools? I don't think so.
>No, but you could have been more cautious. If not for yourselves,
>then for others; didn't people trust you to keep things confidential?
>Maybe that's the final lesson of CAN: don't trust people too much.
Maybe, if you understood a little better the purpose of CAN and the nature of
the people who worked there and who supported CAN and who contacted CAN for
help, you might be a bit more trusting. It would be impossible to operate a
true CAN in an atmosphere of distrust and suspicion.
>I think I would have been more concerned about *destroying* those
>CAN files than *copying* them; what *exactly* was the reason for
>the drive to make copies of them? I hope it wasn't just to keep on
>having a mailing list or to have to hand the donor list one more
>time...
The CAN Files are probably the most complete archive of published articles on
destructive groups that exists in this country. Almost every newspaper and
magazine article that has been written on these groups is in these files. Plus
many books and unpublished materials. If a destructive cult like scientology
got a hold of these files, they would disappear forever.
>Please be careful out there, people; and Jim, I'm sorry you got
>burned by "LT". I hope people learn as much from this as I have,
Your thoughts and commentary are well intentioned and appreciated.
Jim Beebe
Boudewijn van Ingen
<sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>
>
>Boudewijn van Ingen wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 04 Mar 1999 18:25:40 GMT, fr...@linkline.com (Fredric L. Rice)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:44:56 +0100, roger gonnet
>> ><sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Would any of us accept being scandalously and falsely accused of being
>> >>scieno spy, stop speaking or reacting? I don't think so.
>> >
>> >he silence speaks volumes. Being a Scientologist is embarrassing
>> >enough and being accused of being a criminal agent of the cult should
>> >have elicited a public announcemnt by now.
>>
>> I must still strongly object to this train-of-thought. Absence of
>> denial (or confession) is not by any means "evidence" of guilt.
>>
>> It seems to feed your suspicions and I cannot object to that. But
>> unless you *don't* believe in the phrase "innocent until proven
>> guilty", this absence should not be used in any arguments about points
>> like these...
>
>This makes sense in matters of justice, though we could also object to
>justice because of its many errors, for proofs can be quite wrong too.
>
>The point here, if you'd accept to answer it, Boudewijn, is that she did
>not speak; but would you speak, if such happened to you? I presume you
>would, very fast anbd very precisely.
As you say, ars is not a courtroom so there is no way anyone can be
"subpeonad" (?) or otherwise obliged to make public statements.
In fact I can think of many reasons and circumstances why someone
would not be willing to "speak out". I cannot answer your question
because "if such happened to me" is not clearly enough defined. I do
not yet know what "happened" in this case.
BTW: This was already discussed somewhere on ars about a month ago.
I'm not very interested in this line of investigation, so if you don't
mind I'll drop it.
Karin Spaink
> >It was assumed that the office was bugged electronically but there
> >was nothing we could do about it.
> Of course there is; sweeping for bugs is no special art. You can
> hire someone to do it if you don't know how to do it yourself,
> but a little poking around in smoke alarms, lamps, telephones,
> light switches, thermostats, and wall receptacles never hurts.
If anybody ever wants to sec check their offices or house,
ask. I know some very proficient people. Some of them are in
the US. They are *very* good.
groet,
Karin Spaink
- I write, therefore I am:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink
Dave Bird
<bo...@xs4all.nl> writes
>>The point here, if you'd accept to answer it, Boudewijn, is that she did
>>not speak; but would you speak, if such happened to you? I presume you
>>would, very fast anbd very precisely.
>
>As you say, ars is not a courtroom so there is no way anyone can be
>"subpeonad" (?) or otherwise obliged to make public statements.
sub poena'ed
A sub-poena is document which begins with the words
"sub poena dare..." (under penalty of paying <amount>,
you will attend court on such'n'such date).
With an even further stretch, the phrase becomes a verb.
JimDBB
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JimDBB
>JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> wrote:
>>...
>>Last weekend I received a call from a German TV Documentary producer. He
>had
>>been in this country several years ago and produced a show on Scientology
>for
>>German TV.... He said," Laura Terepin...I discovered that she was a spy for
>>scientology when I was there."...
>>...I am more than upset that this information wasn't passed on at that time.
>>...
I made a mistake here in not stating that the German producer had, in fact,
passed on his suspicions and discoveries about Laura. But this person was
doubtful did not pass this information on to anyone else.
>I can see where TV interviewers might see their role to be
>observers, rather than as active agents in the stories they cover.
>
>Also, suppose he had told you "LT is a spy".
>Would you have belived him at the time?
>
>-Jeff Bell
I don't know but I certainly would have thought about it and looked into it in
some way.
Jim Beebe
JimDBB
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roger gonnet
Boudewijn van Ingen wrote:
>
> On Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:34:21 +0100, roger gonnet
> <sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Boudewijn van Ingen wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 04 Mar 1999 18:25:40 GMT, fr...@linkline.com (Fredric L. Rice)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:44:56 +0100, roger gonnet
> >> ><sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Would any of us accept being scandalously and falsely accused of being
> >> >>scieno spy, stop speaking or reacting? I don't think so.
> >> >
> >> >he silence speaks volumes. Being a Scientologist is embarrassing
> >> >enough and being accused of being a criminal agent of the cult should
> >> >have elicited a public announcemnt by now.
> >>
> >> I must still strongly object to this train-of-thought. Absence of
> >> denial (or confession) is not by any means "evidence" of guilt.
> >>
> >> It seems to feed your suspicions and I cannot object to that. But
> >> unless you *don't* believe in the phrase "innocent until proven
> >> guilty", this absence should not be used in any arguments about points
> >> like these...
> >
> >This makes sense in matters of justice, though we could also object to
> >justice because of its many errors, for proofs can be quite wrong too.
> >
> >The point here, if you'd accept to answer it, Boudewijn, is that she did
> >not speak; but would you speak, if such happened to you? I presume you
> >would, very fast anbd very precisely.
>
> As you say, ars is not a courtroom so there is no way anyone can be
> "subpeonad" (?) or otherwise obliged to make public statements.
>
> In fact I can think of many reasons and circumstances why someone
> would not be willing to "speak out". I cannot answer your question
> because "if such happened to me" is not clearly enough defined. I do
> not yet know what "happened" in this case.
>
> BTW: This was already discussed somewhere on ars about a month ago.
> I'm not very interested in this line of investigation, so if you don't
> mind I'll drop it.
Okay!
just aline to precise: I was asking if you'd accept silently to be
attacked like Can Laura without speaking loud to get things clear.
roger
>
roger gonnet
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roger gonnet
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Martin Hunt
jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote:
>There was no questionable legality here. The CAN Files had been returned to
>the CAN Board (the real CAN) and , in fact, CAN could copy them or do
>what they wanted with the CAN Files. And , in fact, two copy machines were
>to be delivered and a number of people had volunteered to help out. This was
>aborted when lawyers showed up with some legal mumbojumbo and intimidated
>the warehouse owners into locking us out. The lawyers represented a
>scientologist named Beeny who had purchased the Jason Scott award and was
>making a claim on the Files. (Someone else will have to explain this further).
If it was legal, is it still legal, is it taking place? If it was
legal, and I'm not suggesting it wasn't, how could anyone stop it
from happening? The warehouse owners should have been shown a writ
or something the next day, and the work should have proceeded?
>Secret was the wrong word choice here. It was rather confidential because of
>the destructive and disruptive ac tions of scientology operatives against
>everything that CAN did.
Right.
>This lapse is hard to explain but if you knew Laura it might make more sense.
>She is very believeable. Plus, CAN did not have the money or resources for
>elaborate security checks and by the nature of CAN's purpose, the tendency was
>towards trust.
Wouldn't have a driver's license has shown her up to be a fraud?
I agree, elaborate security can be expensive. Common sense is cheap,
however.
>I erred here in not including the fact that the German producer had , in
>fact, notified someone of his discoveries about Laura but, unfortunately, this
>was never passed on.
I see; I apologize for mischaracterizing his morals, then. Too bad
someone dropped the ball.
>Maybe, if you understood a little better the purpose of CAN and the nature of
>the people who worked there and who supported CAN and who contacted CAN for
>help, you might be a bit more trusting. It would be impossible to operate a
>true CAN in an atmosphere of distrust and suspicion.
I tried to draw a distinction between common sense precaution and
an whole atmosphere of distrust and suspicion; I apparently failed.
I wasn't suggesting that everyone be totally paranoid all the time,
spying on each other, suspecting each other's motives, etc. What
I was thinking was more like a common awareness of the risks of
infiltration (after all, you were cult experts), and a friendly
and open coverage of these risks. Would anyone be scared to just
show some ID when applying to volunteer somewhere? Would it be
too much to ask for some references? The head of CAN would do
well to actually have a visit with the volunteers; ask to meet
with their parents for coffee one afternoon, and listen. You'd be
surprised how hard it is to fake parents. :-) How many volunteers
did CAN have? If it was over 100, this may well have been
impossible, in which case formal security measures should have
been in place, such as who has access to what, if it was such
a large organization.
>The CAN Files are probably the most complete archive of published articles on
>destructive groups that exists in this country.
I was thinking of the personal files of the people who phoned in;
the lists of names, the stories of former cult members and their
families.
Published materials are not in question; of course such archives
should be preserved in multiple ways.
>Almost every newspaper and
>magazine article that has been written on these groups is in these files. Plus
>many books and unpublished materials. If a destructive cult like scientology
>got a hold of these files, they would disappear forever.
Right. Such archives should be scanned, burned onto CDs, put up
on webpages, placed with universities, and distributed around the
world.
>Your thoughts and commentary are well intentioned and appreciated.
I hope everyone can learn from this; I know I have. And I pray
that learning isn't merely in the direction of becoming more
reclusive, paranoid, and fearful.
David Gerard
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David Gerard
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David Gerard
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David Gerard
:Someone asked me for Warrior's name yesterday. This person is
:asking around. Odd behaviour, possibly suspicious behaviour.
:You know what I do with such requests? Ignore them completely,
:or give an answer like: "if I knew, I wouldn't tell you." I
:don't even reveal *if* I know the information in question. But
:you know what, someone will answer the question. Hey, Warrior,
:if you get outed, I think I know who's responsible. :-) PS,
:this person is trying to track down the real name of Miss X
:as well. If either of them are outed, I'm outing the requester;
:until then, mum's the word, but Warrior and Miss X should be
:alert that someone is after you. Other anons in the past have
:been outed in a similar fashion by loose lips...
A name for Warrior has been posted to a.r.s already. In any case, the Co$
would have to be much less skilled at investigation than we *know* they are
not to know precisely who he is from all the verifiable detail in his posts
so far.
I do like the way he refuses to confirm or deny whenever the wgert of the
day tries to out him. That seems to be the way to piss them off :-)
--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/ http://xenu.netizen.com.au/
"... and then Jack chopped down the beanstalk, adding murder and ecological
vandalism to the theft, enticement and trespass charges already mentioned, but
he got away with it and lived happily ever after without a twinge of guilt
about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about any-
thing if you're a hero, because no one asks inconvenient questions." - Susan
David Gerard
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David Gerard
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roger gonnet
David Gerard wrote:
>
> On 5 Mar 1999 04:10:51 -0800, Martin Hunt <mar...@islandnet.com> wrote:
>
> :Someone asked me for Warrior's name yesterday. This person is
> :asking around. Odd behaviour, possibly suspicious behaviour.
> :You know what I do with such requests? Ignore them completely,
> :or give an answer like: "if I knew, I wouldn't tell you." I
> :don't even reveal *if* I know the information in question. But
> :you know what, someone will answer the question. Hey, Warrior,
> :if you get outed, I think I know who's responsible. :-) PS,
> :this person is trying to track down the real name of Miss X
> :as well. If either of them are outed, I'm outing the requester;
> :until then, mum's the word, but Warrior and Miss X should be
> :alert that someone is after you. Other anons in the past have
> :been outed in a similar fashion by loose lips...
>
> A name for Warrior has been posted to a.r.s already. In any case, the Co$
> would have to be much less skilled at investigation than we *know* they are
> not to know precisely who he is from all the verifiable detail in his posts
> so far.
>
> I do like the way he refuses to confirm or deny whenever the wgert of the
> day tries to out him. That seems to be the way to piss them off :-)
>
> --
Whoever unknow on ars is querying must be supected, whatever.
If someone wishes to know , why would he not ask the person directly?
Mails are written.
roger
Fredric L. Rice
wrote:
>You know what? This was not done with "LT", was it. She was just
>allowed to waltz in and work for CAN and FACTNet without even
>a cursory check into where her parents are, what her real name
>might be, or what she looked like in high school. Huh. I probably
>wouldn't have even gone to coffee with such a person...
You know, that's actually a very interesting and important point to
discuss. Even a cursory examination into an individual's claims for
anything -- employment evaluation or joining a cult like CAN -- is an
expected and intelligent thing to do. _Was_ the fake Laura ever
even _considered_ to be lying? Nothing I have read as yet tends to
indicate that anyone ever questioned her claims critically.
>You know, I had a good look around to see what Gerry Armstrong was
>meant to look lke before I had my first meeting with him. Hey,
>*anyone* could claim to be Gerry Armstrong, right? Well, you can
>call me paranoid if you like, but it doesn't take up a lot of my
>time just to check up on people a little. Guess what? Such checking
>has indeed turned up one spy who had personal contact with me.
>How about that, eh. I feel kind of special that the Church of
>Scientology would even invest resources on little old me. :-)
It's a lesson that all of us might consider learning. I didn't know
the faces of anybody at the Clearwater protest against the cult's
abuses last December 5'th. I took it as red that the others who
knew everyone else knew everyone else.
>>Last weekend I received a call from a German TV Documentary producer. He had
>>been in this country several years ago and produced a show on Scientology for
>>German TV. He had come to my home and interviewed me on my experiences with
>>CAN and Scientology. I had not heard much from him since then and so was
>>surprised to get this call from him. I thought that he must of have heard of
>>the Laura affair and that was why he was calling and I right off mentioned,
>>Laura. He said," Laura Terepin...I discovered that she was a spy for
>>scientology when I was there."
>
>Nice guy; he couldn't have informed a few people of his discoveries,
>could he? No, I guess he just assumed that others would do their
>own checking. Still, a little note sent to FACTNet and CAN wouldn't
>have done any harm, not that he would have been believed.
He wouldn't have been believed but CAN would have checked. But that
would mean that the reporter is getting involved with the story and,
even more to the point, could be geting involved in a legal
entanglement with the story.
>>It was assumed that the office was bugged electronically but there
>>was nothing we could do about it.
>
>Of course there is; sweeping for bugs is no special art. You can
>hire someone to do it if you don't know how to do it yourself,
>but a little poking around in smoke alarms, lamps, telephones,
>light switches, thermostats, and wall receptacles never hurts.
RF sniffers are cheap and easy to build. I posted a schematic to
a.b.s several months ago before the Clearwater protest. IR sniffers
can also be done-up cheaply. Window pane eavesdroppers are not
that difficult to defeat but they're expensive enough that most people
don't have to worry about them. The Scientology cult, however, has
resources which would make window pane eavesdroppers a concern.
JimDBB
JImDBB wrote:
>>>Last weekend I received a call from a German TV Documentary producer. He
>had
>>>been in this country several years ago and produced a show on Scientology
>for
>>>German TV. He had come to my home and interviewed me on my experiences
>with
>>>CAN and Scientology. I had not heard much from him since then and so was
>>>surprised to get this call from him. I thought that he must of have heard
>of
>>>the Laura affair and that was why he was calling and I right off mentioned,
>>>Laura. He said," Laura Terepin...I discovered that she was a spy for
>>>scientology when I was there.
>>Nice guy; he couldn't have informed a few people of his discoveries,
>>could he? No, I guess he just assumed that others would do their
>>own checking. Still, a little note sent to FACTNet and CAN wouldn't
>>have done any harm, not that he would have been believed.
>
I erred in not relating that, in fact, the German producer did notify someone
of his suspicions and discoveries about Laura Terepin. Unfortunately, that
person receiving this information was doubtful and did not pass this on.
JImDBB
JimDBB
> jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote:
>> I erred in not relating that, in fact, the German producer did notify
>> someone of his suspicions and discoveries about Laura Terepin.
>> Unfortunately, that person receiving this information was doubtful and did
>> not pass this on.
>I find it remarkable that a visiting German producer could have identified a
>spy in circumstances where others did not. Did he give you any information
>whatsoever relating to how he reached his conclusions?
>Under what circumstances did he encounter CAN Laura?
Yes, The German producer came to Chicago to interview CAN's ED, Cynthia
Kisser, myself and others associated with CAN. Kisser had sued Scientology for
libel and other charges and her trial against scientology was underway. Laura,
I believe offered to help the German during his chicago area visit. At some
point he became suspicious of Laura and then set up some situations which
revealed to him that Laura had notified scientology of his whereabouts and
activities. Heber Jentzsch, Kendrick Moxon and other top scientologists were
in Chicago for Kisser's trial. It is believed that scientology's in-house
lawyer, Kendrick Moxon was directing the conspiracy to destroy CAN and that
Laura was feeding information directly to him.
As Laura was a trusted CAN volunteer, the German producer met her through
contact with CAN.
JimDBB
Martin Hunt
fr...@linkline.com (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
>RF sniffers are cheap and easy to build. I posted a schematic to
>a.b.s several months ago before the Clearwater protest. IR sniffers
>can also be done-up cheaply. Window pane eavesdroppers are not
>that difficult to defeat but they're expensive enough that most people
>don't have to worry about them. The Scientology cult, however, has
>resources which would make window pane eavesdroppers a concern.
Anyone know what a Van Eck antenna would look like? I had someone
across the way pointing a weird looking device at my place for a
few months.
--
Cogito, ergo sum.
"Scientology is a ruthless, destructive, and vindictive organization."
- James Randi
.
.
.
.
Garry Scarff
> In article <36e4a3b5...@nntp.lightlink.com>,
> fr...@linkline.com (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
>
> >RF sniffers are cheap and easy to build. I posted a schematic to
> >a.b.s several months ago before the Clearwater protest. IR sniffers
> >can also be done-up cheaply. Window pane eavesdroppers are not
> >that difficult to defeat but they're expensive enough that most people
> >don't have to worry about them. The Scientology cult, however, has
> >resources which would make window pane eavesdroppers a concern.
>
> Anyone know what a Van Eck antenna would look like? I had someone
> across the way pointing a weird looking device at my place for a
> few months.
Yeah..of course, Martin..uh-huh...anything else you'd like us to blindly
accept?
>
>