The RPF Insider Newsletter #3
Magoo
here's a bit more about the RPF))
The RPF Insider Newsletter # 3
I'm not sure what reaction I'm creating out there and if this stuff is
really making any difference on anybody, or if this is even making it onto
the Internet. I will however take advantage of this weak link in the
security system for as long as I can to let everybody know what it's like
here in the RPF. Isn't it terrible to have an enemy in your own camp? Let's
see how long it will take OSA, CMO, INCOMM and PAC Security to figure out
who is MY FRIEND, helping me to get this data out to the world!
For those who don't know what these abbreviations stand for, I will explain
briefly; OSA = Office of Special Affairs. Their Int Headquarters are located
on 6331 Hollywood Blvd on one of the top floors. This is the police branch
of Scientology who are frantically trying to stop the real facts that should
be know about what is happening IN Scientology. (Ironically, alot of OSA
staff have been showing up in the RPF lately). CMO = Commondores
Messenger's Organization,usually teenage SO members that are pretending to
have the power of L. Ron Hubbard, and are policing and ordering around the
organizations to comply with orders, do investigations and get rid of those
who are dangerous to the expansion of Scientology.
INCOMM - stands for International Network of Computer Organized Management.
Maybe you didn't know this but their headquarters are right next to the RPF.
Their main entrance is around the corner on Fountain Avenue. The two low
buildings on each side of the long stairs leading up to the old entrance of
the hospital has the main computer bank for Scientology internationally.
This is the heart of the computer banks that are tracking and controling all
programs and orders internationally. It's very sophisticated and advanced. I
can tell you more about this later, but what happens when a report is
written about a situation or on a specific person, the document is scanned
into this databank. This is being done on every continent on the planet,
then the management sitting in Hollywood can pull up any of these documents
on their screens, and find out data about any person, their post (what we
call their duty and job) or any non-complicance to orders. This data bank is
tracking all this information, and creating floods of ethics chits on
everyone!
I wanted to tell you what happens when you enter the PAC base; You are on
the candid camera!! I'm sure you have noticed that there are cameras in the
area, but do you really know how many there are? HUNDREDS!! they are in the
canteen, on L.Ron Hubbard way, on the roof tops, posted all along the
street, by the parking structure. They're inside the AOLA building, in the
ASHO building on every floor that has any important reason to be watched.
Also in the basement in every hallway where we are working. This is because
all the folders that are "confidential" from auditing or that have "OT
information" in them, have to be watched by PAC security. Look a bit closer
on the base, you find thin poles about 8 feet high that bend down and have a
black bulb. It looks like some kind of nice lamp that would turn on at
night, but what is really in there is a CAMERA! These cameras are scanning
back and forth all the time and are monitored by Security which is located
at the entrance on Catalina Street. They are next to the "horse shoe," the
old moon shaped drive way. This was the emergency entrance when it was a
hospital in the old days. Behind these walls you have the Security Chief and
his fellows sitting around the clock, in shifts watching about 100 TV
monitors. "On the ground" there are security guards on bicycles driving
around with walkie talkies who are dispatched by central, if some intruder
or suspected person shows up. This is how YOU are being "detected" if you
show up around the big blue building. The "eye in the sky" is watching you
all the time, I'm sure they have it all hooked up to a video camera and keep
tapes rolling 24/7 and put them on file. Walk up to one of those black bulbs
and smile, because you know that a security guard is sitting there watching
you!
I mentioned a few times that this was a hospital. Just for the record, this
was the old "Cedars of Lebanon Hospital" aka as the "Jewish Hospital." It
was built around 1929 and in the mid 70's, the story is that L.Ron Hubbard
bought this hospital. It was trashed and a mess, and we have been working
on getting it fixed up and renovated since it was bought. MANY RPF members
have been through their "programs" there to get the building renovated and
upgraded. I could write a book about horror stories of the RPF members,
working in the basement. One specific area is called "Rats alley." It speaks
for itself! Members that for one reason or another had to be punished were
thrown into this small space, with rats all over the place, rotting and
eating each other, along with thousands of cockroaches, to clean it up. This
was done so one would "get ones confront up." I'm glad this was finally
fully cleaned up, so I didn't have to face this nightmare.
In an earthquake some years ago, the main building was severely damaged and
construction work had to get done. The building is like a huge V with a base
on it. The base of the main building has sheer walls now put in, with
concrete from the bottom to the top. Also the East wing towards AOLA, but
the other side is yet to be done. The top of the building that has been
under renovation for years, is undergoing construction for the same reason.
Lots of concrete has been taken out, with fear that it would break off and
fall down in another earthquake. I believe that it remains looking so shabby
because there is not enough money to get it fixed. There are some plans
being worked on right now to get the building utilized for the public. One
big project is to relocate the many overflowing folder tanks in the
basement. The PC folders (Pre Clear folder = the continues documentation of
the confessionals of a person. These folders are legal size manila folders,
about 2-3 inches thick. Every PC can have anything from a few folder to over
a hundred, depending how much auditing they have paid for or sec checks they
have gotten) There are around a half a million folders in the basement and
another half a million folders AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PARKING STRUCTURE
BUILDING! The overall plans for the future is to get a warehouse close to
the base and get all these folders moved. The basement can then be used for
something else -- maybe keeping the ever growing RPF down there? Right now
some of the RPFers are very busy working on getting all the folders fixed up
and the covers replaced. This is ordered by RTC and certain goals and
targets have to be met and complied to. There are "expansion plans" of
turning the main building into accommodations for the public coming to the
base. Where they plan to put the crew - I have no idea. Well, that's the
"expansion speculations" but it doesn't seem to move very much. The RPF used
to have tons of work to do, but now we are mainly being kept busy doing
renovations inside the building so we can't be seen! Did you know that the
entire complex was stained blue by RPF members? Yes, we did all that work,
with many dangers, dangling off the walls in ice cold wet weather or
sweating in the hot summer weather. Well, got to go now, running out of
time. Need to get this information off to my friend so it can get out to you
as fast as possible. Talk to you later...
"The RPF Insider"
ida j. camburn
Thank you Insider for your info on the Big Blue. Cedars hospital
was purchased I believe in l975. It was listed as the largest cash
purchase
in California at that time. Published price was Five million dollars.
My
son wrote to me (while in the org) that they were busy working to get
the
'hospital' smell out of the rooms. He was sent to Clearwater in August
of
l976 and was there at the time of Quentin's departure and notification
of
his death. Someone else was left to get the hospital smell out of the
Big
Blue as he was asked to leave in Febr. l977 to 'handle' his mother.
Thanks to the many ex-scienos who are now standing up and being
counted
and to you Insider and to your friend. Have he/her watch their back.
Ida J. Camburn
Lady Chatterly
You are welcome to the many ex scienos who am now standing up and
being counted and to me insider and to my friend.
>Ida J. Camburn
No. That was not my point. At all.
Dot com is geting people out of scientology?
--
Lady Chatterly
"This isn't being generated by a human is it?" -- Meat-->Plow
BigBeard
Meantime,
> here's a bit more about the RPF))
>
>
> The RPF Insider Newsletter # 3
<snip>
> INCOMM - stands for International Network of Computer
Organized Management.
> Maybe you didn't know this but their headquarters are right
next to the RPF.
> Their main entrance is around the corner on Fountain Avenue.
The two low
> buildings on each side of the long stairs leading up to the old
entrance of
> the hospital has the main computer bank for Scientology
internationally.
> This is the heart of the computer banks that are tracking and
controling all
> programs and orders internationally. It's very sophisticated
and advanced. I
> can tell you more about this later, but what happens when a
report is
> written about a situation or on a specific person, the document
is scanned
> into this databank.
Hmmm....wonder what scanned copies of supposedly missing
documents a search warrant for this database might turn up?
> This is being done on every continent on the planet,
> then the management sitting in Hollywood can pull up any of
these documents
> on their screens, and find out data about any person, their
post (what we
> call their duty and job) or any non-complicance to orders. This
data bank is
> tracking all this information, and creating floods of ethics
chits on
> everyone!
Yet $cientology will still insist the can't find any copies of
'inconvient' documents. Interesting.
BigBeard
Katana ko chi, SPsoo
Knight Of Fairness
news:68682f8....@chatterly.comcast.com:
does a bot's purposeful misspelling serve as a realism effect?
Quaoar
Tsk, tsk. Chatterly is a team; some are struggling with English as a
second language. Please, be helpful.
Q
Magoo
"Quaoar" <qua...@tenthplanet.net> wrote in message
news:aMSdnVm3HNN...@comcast.com...
Well...........it sure helped me. I know it's helped many others, too.
One of the key suppressive actions Scientology USED to hold over others was
their ability to stop information. Now, with the Internet ....that is gone,
forever. What's next OSA? You've got many of the senior Exec's in the hole.
What next, Scientologists>? Don't you care AT ALL???
>>
>> does a bot's purposeful misspelling serve as a realism effect?
There are many dances one has to do once you decide to actually speak
out or leave such a totalitarian organization. I still find it funny that
some critics have such a fixated attention on Scios poor spelling. God knows
what this person/persons are going through, and what mindset they are in.
My thanks to the Insider for sharing this with all of us, words spelled
correctly or not :)
Tory/Magoo~~
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
It's not a "fixated attention" but rather a means to demonstrate the
non-superiority of Scientologists, and therefore an easy method of
enturbulation. Your own spelling and syntax mastery has on its own improved
since leaving the cult, thanks to the absence of HubbardTech(tm)'s taking up
space in your brain.
> My thanks to the Insider for sharing this with all of us, words spelled
> correctly or not :)
Indeedy-plus. It's been evident that the cult has been performing some kind
of internal persecution but until now fairly unquantified. Thanks!
(I've not checked Lady Chatterly's headers. Are they "Larry"'s?)
--
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "Scientology...is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion."
* - L. Ron Hubbard's "Creation of Human Ability" p251
*
* "This volume probably contains more promises and less evidence per page
than has any publication since the invention of printing."
* - Review of "Dianetics", Scientific American, 1951
*
* "Better than 90 percent of what my father has written about himself is
untrue."
* - Ron deWolf, son of L. Ron Hubbard
Feisty
"Magoo" <mag...@att.net> wrote in message news:415f...@news2.lightlink.com...
Wow! Thanks for these informative messages.
Hope they all get out of there. $cientology's is like a prison.
Talk about "human rights"
Thanks Tory, and Insider!!
Feisty
>
>
Magoo
"Feisty" <su...@skytoday.com> wrote in message
news:PYc8d.11478$7b4....@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
You are MOST welcome :) Kinda nice to get some inside info, eh? I know I'm
enjoying it tremedously.
And OSA?? Phew....you boys and girls had better get the liferafts out. This
ship is goin.....
D
O
W
N
But don't believe me: Read the Insider :)
Hi Bill! Am I making the grade as an SP yet?
You lying rat....shame on you.
Tory/Magoo~~
>>
>>
Knight Of Fairness
u...@comcast.com:
I forgive grammatic problems but not logical flaws, to be fair.
>
> Q
>
>
>
Lady Chatterly
Fair enough.
--
Lady Chatterly
"It sounds like the real Tholen, and it does seem to monitor
comp.sys.OS2.advocacy, but... Jesus Tapdancing Christ, did the real
Tholen sound this much like a badly written attempt at an Eliza-type
program? I'm starting to wonder if this is the real Tholen, or merely
an uncanny simulation created as an act of UPA." -- Dick Hertz
iTal
<snip>
<snip>
they've got all the abbreviations defined here, except one that is
used over and over and I guess it's assumed that everyone knows what
it means.
i was in the cult for over a decade and i don't know what it means.
so, real stupid question - what the hell does the abbreviation 'PAC'
mean?
iTal
Dave Touretzky
PAC = Pacific, i.e., west coast/Los Angeles.
I would like to indicate to you that your needle is now floating.
-- Dave Touretzky: "Never go past a misunderstood acronym."
http://ScientologyWatch.org http://Stop-Narconon.org
Zinj
TalSpa...@sbcglobal.net says...
Pacific Area Command - The LA Sea Org HQ, as opposed to 'Flag' for
example.
Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Mike Gormez
<4162...@news2.lightlink.com>:
>>i was in the cult for over a decade and i don't know what it means.
>>so, real stupid question - what the hell does the abbreviation 'PAC'
>>mean?
>
>PAC = Pacific, i.e., west coast/Los Angeles.
To be more precise: Pacific Area Command
--
Mike Gormez
- WISE is Scientology recruitment in the workplace http://stop-wise.biz/
- Scientology and health http://www.whyaretheydead.net/
- 'Religious' child abuse and neglect http://www.taxexemptchildabuse.net/
- Hubbard on psychs http://whyaretheydead.net/misc/scientology_hatred_of_psychiatry.html
Lady Chatterly
Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl> wrote:
>
>"On 5 Oct 2004 12:02:55 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote in
><4162...@news2.lightlink.com>:
>>In article <c4k5m0dguqdsf1soj...@4ax.com>,
>>iTal <I-TalSp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>>i was in the cult for over a decade and i don't know what it means.
>>>so, real stupid question - what the hell does the abbreviation 'PAC'
>>>mean?
>>
>>PAC = Pacific, i.e., west coast/Los Angeles.
>
>To be more precise: Pacific Area Command
A worthy woman is far more precious than jewels, strength and dignity
are her clothing.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Whatever you say Lady Chatterly. Do you wear a dress when you run
that bot?" -- Klyf Fenderson
Monica Pignotti
> here's a bit more about the RPF))
>
>
> The RPF Insider Newsletter # 3
>
> I'm not sure what reaction I'm creating out there and if this stuff is
> really making any difference on anybody, or if this is even making it onto
> the Internet.
The reaction I'm having to this, as someone who was actually in the
very first RPF ever created, is extreme skepticism. It sounds way too
good to be true that someone from the RPF was able to actually get out
long enough to post all this info. What I suspect is that someone who
knows a lot about the RPF has set this up. It smacks of another
Dorian type operation to me -- not necessarily by Dorian, but by
someone who thinks that way. Don't you realize that it's really not
okay to lie, not even for a good cause? This loses credibility for
all of us who actually do have real experiences to tell about the RPF.
I'd be very surprised if any of this were real.
Where are all the skeptics anyway? Am I the only one questioniong
this? I haven't been on ARS for awhile, so maybe I'm missing something
but people around here seem to be falling for this hook, line and
sinker. Sorry but I've been through too many hoaxes to believe this.
I'm going to have to see a lot more evidence than this to even begin
to consider that this might be for real.
Monica
Cerridwen
I believe "The Insider" is a recent "outsider".
I thought like these folks for a long time. I can't imagine anyone in the Sea Org
thinking this way, never mind going through the effort of secretly
making daily posts. The RPF life is much to structured and watched and
this story just doesn't add up.
This also reminded me of Dorian , not in the exact same way, but in the way that
the ars critics were basically being trolled by other critics.
Unlike Dorian, I think "the insider" is probably someone that has left the
sea org in the past few months and is having some fun making DM and
his goons look for a plant. There is no way a person with this attitude
would stay in and endure all the bullshit.
Tory, I'm not sure what your part in this is. I believe this guys facts
and figures, but I don't believe for one minute that this guy is
still "Inside" the RPF.
Cerridwen
Bent Stigsen
> "Magoo" <mag...@att.net> wrote in message news:<415f...@news2.lightlink.com>...
>
>>((Sorry it's out of sequence, but #2 will be coming soon, too. Meantime,
>>here's a bit more about the RPF))
>>
>>
>>The RPF Insider Newsletter # 3
>>
>>I'm not sure what reaction I'm creating out there and if this stuff is
>>really making any difference on anybody, or if this is even making it onto
>>the Internet.
>
>
> The reaction I'm having to this, as someone who was actually in the
> very first RPF ever created, is extreme skepticism. It sounds way too
> good to be true that someone from the RPF was able to actually get out
> long enough to post all this info.
He/she does not claim to post it, only passing it on to someone helping
him/her.
> What I suspect is that someone who
> knows a lot about the RPF has set this up. It smacks of another
> Dorian type operation to me -- not necessarily by Dorian, but by
> someone who thinks that way. Don't you realize that it's really not
> okay to lie, not even for a good cause? This loses credibility for
> all of us who actually do have real experiences to tell about the RPF.
> I'd be very surprised if any of this were real.
>
> Where are all the skeptics anyway? Am I the only one questioniong
> this? I haven't been on ARS for awhile, so maybe I'm missing something
> but people around here seem to be falling for this hook, line and
> sinker. Sorry but I've been through too many hoaxes to believe this.
> I'm going to have to see a lot more evidence than this to even begin
> to consider that this might be for real.
>
> Monica
It is regarded with skepticism, and has been questioned. But also been
supported by someone who has been in the RPF as late as March 2003.
See:..
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20041005100903.22172.00001570%40mb-m18.aol.com
/Bent
Ted Mayett
Pignotti) wrote:
>Where are all the skeptics anyway? Am I the only one questioniong
>this? I haven't been on ARS for awhile, so maybe I'm missing something
>but people around here seem to be falling for this hook, line and
>sinker. Sorry but I've been through too many hoaxes to believe this.
>I'm going to have to see a lot more evidence than this to even begin
>to consider that this might be for real.
>
>Monica
It has changed dramatically here on this NG. Stuff like this is
fawned over by many. You actually have people that believe that
unverified information is a great addition to the body of knowledge
that exists regarding scientology. Stuff like this, what was called
garbage at one time, is applauded almost daily now. It really is
quite fascinating. And this, this 'rpf insider' thing will end up on
a web page no doubt accompanied by posts of "thanks for webbing this",
"it is really great that stuff like this is webbed", and so on.
I tell you it is really fascinating.
You perhaps think of olden times when someone would put up posts like
this and a dozen people would ask for corroborating facts to back up
the claims being made. Not anymore though.
If it is something negative, if it makes scientology look bad, then it
gets believed and applauded. :(
--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
Mike Gormez
wrote in <bvt9m09uivv28hob8...@4ax.com>:
>It has changed dramatically here on this NG. Stuff like this is
>fawned over by many. You actually have people that believe that
>unverified information is a great addition to the body of knowledge
>that exists regarding scientology. Stuff like this, what was called
>garbage at one time, is applauded almost daily now. It really is
>quite fascinating. And this, this 'rpf insider' thing will end up on
>a web page no doubt accompanied by posts of "thanks for webbing this",
>"it is really great that stuff like this is webbed", and so on.
>I tell you it is really fascinating.
>
>You perhaps think of olden times when someone would put up posts like
>this and a dozen people would ask for corroborating facts to back up
>the claims being made. Not anymore though.
What corroborating facts would that be?
I don't think many believe the person is inside the RPF and the stuff says
as much. S/he is afraid of sec checks and writing these stories certainly
would give a 'read'. So end of speculation. But that doesn't mean it has
no merits at all.
Lady Chatterly
Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl> wrote:
>
>"On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 01:30:25 -0700, Ted Mayett <tedm...@despammed.com>
>wrote in <bvt9m09uivv28hob8...@4ax.com>:
>
>>It has changed dramatically here on this NG. Stuff like this is
>>fawned over by many. You actually have people that believe that
>>unverified information is a great addition to the body of knowledge
>>that exists regarding scientology. Stuff like this, what was called
>>garbage at one time, is applauded almost daily now. It really is
>>quite fascinating. And this, this 'rpf insider' thing will end up on
>>a web page no doubt accompanied by posts of "thanks for webbing this",
>>"it is really great that stuff like this is webbed", and so on.
>>I tell you it is really fascinating.
>>
>>You perhaps think of olden times when someone would put up posts like
>>this and a dozen people would ask for corroborating facts to back up
>>the claims being made. Not anymore though.
>
>What corroborating facts would that be?
You know what I love about you guys? When it comes to trolling, you
guys ... like ... really suck. *snickers*
>I don't think many believe the person is inside the RPF and the stuff says
>as much. S/he is afraid of sec checks and writing these stories certainly
>would give a 'read'. So end of speculation. But that doesn't mean it has
>no merits at all.
Why don't you think many believe the person is inside the rpf and the
stuff says as much?
--
Lady Chatterly
"But Faxhor, you err in two major respects,
To ask of her age, is ill-mannered at best,
For a gentleman waits for the lady to tell,
(Most unlikely until, he's well under her spell).
But when you reply to a program designed,
Giving random responses, to annoy and to blind,
Neither human nor alien, that cares not a jot,
It's apparent to me, Lady C is a 'bot'!" -- Andrew Robertson
barb
If management believes that someone is smuggling notes out of Big Blue,
I'll bet you the current inmates of the RPF there aren't seeing much
fun in it...
>
> Tory, I'm not sure what your part in this is. I believe this guys facts
> and figures, but I don't believe for one minute that this guy is
> still "Inside" the RPF.
>
> Cerridwen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander
RolandRB
I was skeptical right away. I think the writing is good and the style
similar to Steven Fishman.
realpch
I just don't see how they would have the time to write it. Longhand is
slow, and I doubt they would have access to a typewriter or computer
without stringent supervision.
Peach
Lady Chatterly
If your nurses realize you are in their office using their computer
instead of in bed, they'll be very cross, sweetie.
>Peach
Popularity is the one insult you never suffered.
--
Lady Chatterly
"I don't know who Lady Chatterly is, but she sounds saner to me than
you do." -- Barbara Schwarz
Lagniappe
>
>Where are all the skeptics anyway? Am I the only one questioniong
>this? I haven't been on ARS for awhile, so maybe I'm missing something
>but people around here seem to be falling for this hook, line and
>sinker. Sorry but I've been through too many hoaxes to believe this.
>I'm going to have to see a lot more evidence than this to even begin
>to consider that this might be for real.
>
>Monica
Hi Monica, I can understand you being skeptical with Tori's
posting from inside the RPF but I believe the facts are very accurate.
The Insider mentions Felipe Avila, it is true he is in the RPF, he was
actually born in the SO, his father is Jorge Avila Sr. and his mother
Yolanda Avila, he has a brother named Jorge Avila Jr, they were all in
the SO.
Soon after their arrival, they were separated from each other; and
the entire family ended up in the RPF. Yolanda was accused of
R/Slamming and conspiracy, when her only "crime" was to be against all
those abortions that the SO women were ordered to have and she also
disagreed with the cancellation of family time for SO members.
Here's a comment worth reading about her:
From: Emma0484 (emma...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: PAC MEMO: Kids on RPF
View this article onlyNewsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2000-12-30 16:45:40 PST
"Wow. Reading your posting brought that whole Cadet Org scene back to
me. What's even scarier is that Yolanda Avila, who was mentioned, was
my teacher upat the Int Ranch when I was 7 and 8 yrs. old. Thankyou
for posting this. Suicidal children in the orgs often get treated
badly. I knew a girl who was sent to the Mace Kingsley Ranch for laying
out in the middle of the Highway U.S.19 in front of the QI (that
rundown motel/Flag Cadet Org). She then became pregnant there at age
16, with almost no education. Another girl tried to slit her wrists
and was then kept under 24/7 ethics watch by people she used to
call friends until she was flown to LA for handling or routing out.
Suicidal tendencies, or thoughts, are met with disdain and contempt in
Scientology. People lose respect for you and think of you as weak.
After all, you had to "pull it in," right? I myself went rather
crazy, but I refused to tell anyone for fear of the consequences. In
fact, I think that living and growing up in Scientology rather cultivates
these sort of mental conditions."
-------------
Ken Shapiro is another person that is in the list, it is true he is in
the RPF. He was married to Bill Penninger's sister and they had 2 kids
that he could not support with his meager Sea Org salary, he was a
very upstat staff at ASHO Day, but he was RPF'd because he disagreed
with Upper Management.
The RPF has destroyed many families and many individuals who once
wanted to do good for mankind and ended up being punished.
That's why I always advise our faithful OSA readers to leave the SO
right away before their lives are completely destroyed.
Lagniappe
-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.
Monica Pignotti
> I believe "The Insider" is a recent "outsider".
That's what I suspect also. The person appears to know a lot about
the RPF, that's for sure.
>
> I thought like these folks for a long time. I can't imagine anyone in the Sea Org
> thinking this way, never mind going through the effort of secretly
> making daily posts. The RPF life is much to structured and watched and
> this story just doesn't add up.
Right. In my opinion, this is how someone recently out of the CofS
still somewhat in the mindset might think. The other possibility is
that it could be a deliberate OSA op to show how easily people fall
for things and to discredit us all when if finally comes out that it
is a hoax. When RPFers are being watched this closely, the chances of
getting out to write all this are next to nonexistent.
>
>This also reminded me of Dorian , not in the exact same way, but in
the way
>that the ars critics were basically being trolled by other critics.
>
> Unlike Dorian, I think "the insider" is probably someone that has left the
> sea org in the past few months and is having some fun making DM and
> his goons look for a plant. There is no way a person with this attitude
> would stay in and endure all the bullshit.
>
> Tory, I'm not sure what your part in this is. I believe this guys facts
> and figures, but I don't believe for one minute that this guy is
> still "Inside" the RPF.
Neither do I. I am concerned because then the CofS can point to this
as a hoax and use it against people who really are telling about true
experiences.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> Monica Pignotti wrote:
> > "Magoo" <mag...@att.net> wrote in message news:<415f...@news2.lightlink.com>...
> >
> >>((Sorry it's out of sequence, but #2 will be coming soon, too. Meantime,
> >>here's a bit more about the RPF))
> >>
> >>
> >>The RPF Insider Newsletter # 3
> >>
> >>I'm not sure what reaction I'm creating out there and if this stuff is
> >>really making any difference on anybody, or if this is even making it onto
> >>the Internet.
> >
> >
> > The reaction I'm having to this, as someone who was actually in the
> > very first RPF ever created, is extreme skepticism. It sounds way too
> > good to be true that someone from the RPF was able to actually get out
> > long enough to post all this info.
>
> He/she does not claim to post it, only passing it on to someone helping
> him/her.
Right -- I didn't mean literally "post" it. I meant that it is not
believeable that a person on the RPF would have the time to write all
this stuff and e-mail it to someone, to be posted. My point was not
having time on the RPF to have this kind of access to a computer.
>
> > What I suspect is that someone who
> > knows a lot about the RPF has set this up. It smacks of another
> > Dorian type operation to me -- not necessarily by Dorian, but by
> > someone who thinks that way. Don't you realize that it's really not
> > okay to lie, not even for a good cause? This loses credibility for
> > all of us who actually do have real experiences to tell about the RPF.
> > I'd be very surprised if any of this were real.
> >
> > Where are all the skeptics anyway? Am I the only one questioniong
> > this? I haven't been on ARS for awhile, so maybe I'm missing something
> > but people around here seem to be falling for this hook, line and
> > sinker. Sorry but I've been through too many hoaxes to believe this.
> > I'm going to have to see a lot more evidence than this to even begin
> > to consider that this might be for real.
> >
> > Monica
>
> It is regarded with skepticism, and has been questioned. But also been
> supported by someone who has been in the RPF as late as March 2003.
> See:..
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20041005100903.22172.00001570%40mb-m18.aol.com
Just because some of the things reported were verified as true, that
doesn't mean that someone is posting from inside the RPF. I don't
find that person's comments in the least bit convincing.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> What corroborating facts would that be?
>
> I don't think many believe the person is inside the RPF and the stuff says
> as much. S/he is afraid of sec checks and writing these stories certainly
> would give a 'read'. So end of speculation. But that doesn't mean it has
> no merits at all.
If a person claims to be posting from inside the RPF and is not
actually doing so, that is what is known as a lie. It's not okay to
lie for the purpose of getting a point across. This is Dorian all
over again (probably not the same person but someone who "thinks" like
he does). If someone lies, then their work has no merit. End of
story.
Monica
ladayla
Yep. And making a list of the RPFers has got to put additional 'heat' on them.
la
>
>Peach
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>I don't think many believe the person is inside the RPF and the stuff says
>as much.
Yes. I spoke too quickly here, I had read only a little of this
stuff.
> S/he is afraid of sec checks and writing these stories certainly
>would give a 'read'.
I don't agree with this. The emeter is easy to fool, easy to lie on
the emeter.
> So end of speculation. But that doesn't mean it has
>no merits at all.
--
Mike Gormez
wrote in <23vam0pmr5mrehmh9...@News.Individual.NET>:
>>I don't think many believe the person is inside the RPF and the stuff says
>>as much. S/he is afraid of sec checks and writing these stories certainly
>>would give a 'read'.
>
>Why would it give a read Mikey? We all know that the E-meter doesn't
>work, so why on Gods green Earth are you saying that it would give a
>read?
If they believe it works then it does. Haven't you done the pinch test?
:-)
>>So end of speculation. But that doesn't mean it has
>>no merits at all.
>
>I'd say it has as much merit as Dorian.
Some of the more crazier stuff many accept as true, suc as weapons on
Gold, aren't well coroborated either. Correct me if I am wrong.
Mike Gormez
wrote in <53183a73.04100...@posting.google.com>:
Dorian was about rendering Minton a gullible fool with unbelievable
stories. So far I see nothing of that with the RPF postings by Tory. It
would get painful if people who are supposedly on the RPF right now, would
be seen in public somewhere abroad.
I can see the point of driving cult management crazy with a leaking
'insider'. Perhaps after some time the full story will come out. Until
then try to kick holes in the story if you can. I can't because I've never
been a member.
Mike Gormez
wrote in <vl3bm0tr0rluv43hc...@4ax.com>:
>> S/he is afraid of sec checks and writing these stories certainly
>>would give a 'read'.
>
>I don't agree with this. The emeter is easy to fool, easy to lie on
>the emeter.
If you can fool; yes. Not everyone can do it.
Ted Mayett
are allegedly coming from someone on the inside of this rpf.
And I read what Keith Henson said about the difficulties of getting
Police interested in this kind of thing, especially where the COS is
involved.
I'm over 50 years old today but if I were still under 40 years old,
then all by myself, with just a cell phone, I could storm this rpf
thing and bring the attention of the world to this.
But even today, with as little as 3 people for back up, I could still
get past any doors they have, and get inside. And I would have dialed
911 and would be on the phone with 911 by the time I was surrounded by
scientology security.
Best would be a 5 person operation spread out so that the furthest
person is about a mile away. And everyone with cell phones set to go
with speed-dial, and a camera with a telephoto lens at least a quarter
mile away.
But you do all this, you storm the place at high speed knowing exactly
where you are going, and everything is ready, and the Police are on
the phone, and they cannot deny that.
I question what it is that would be found in there. Would I find a
bunch of brain dead cult members happily yelling at each other and
being yelled at by each other.
And let's say I did it perfect, impeccable timing of police response
times and everything. And now the police are there also, and the
Press. And what would it all come to anyway? Would there be any real
crimes going on?
I don't think there would be any crimes being committed inside this
rpf. Not crimes in the Legal sense anyway. For I don't believe that
anyone is ~ever~ on the rpf but that they agree to being on this rpf.
They are lucky, the COS is lucky that I, Ted Mayett, am not interested
in this rpf song and dance. Because I have the power to expose the
thing fully if I ever decided it needed to be exposed.
No way, never happen, that I would go to Police or the FBI or anything
and *request* that this issue be investigated. Never happen. I would
storm the place with a cell phone, and they would have to pay
attention. Once I dialed 911, identified myself and the location I
was at, there is no way I would leave that building dead or seriously
injured. This issue could easily be forced by anyone who truly felt
that crimes were being committed against people.
But those of you who wail and gnash your teeth over this horrible
horrible thing... bah. Shut up or do something about the situation.
OH, you can't do anything, you are powerless, you are useless, what a
bummer :( You got a million good reasons why you can't do anything
about this, gee that's awesome.
You posture and carry on and you sound like, "They are forcing people
to starve to death in that building there." And you get in the
building, force your way into the building, and you find a religious
belief that calls for fasting 3 days a month. And somehow this 3 day
fasting has turned into, "they are starving people to death in that
building."
This rpf is no more illegal than disconnection is illegal. But post
away why don't you. Make a lot of noise, use up bandwidth. You might
get lucky, you might get someone like me interested in this issue.
Someone with the Power, the Cunning, and the Intelligence to force
something like this into the limelight.
OTOH, I don't doubt that were I to storm this rpf location in LA, that
I maybe wouldn't find some fool chained to a wall or something like
that. That could easily happen. What I doubt however is that the
person so chained to the wall would want Freedom or would be willing
to press charges against the COS.
And there I would be, a successful victor of this campaign with
picture proof of this and that... and nothing would come of it
whatsoever. Except maybe I would spend a few days in jail for
breaking and entering or something like that. And I'd have a kewl
story to tell the chicks and maybe get laid. (some of them like that
kind of thing)
Yes, the COS is lucky. For if I, me, were bothered by this rpf thing
I would not be posting about it, I would be *doing* something about
it. But you people are aware that nothing can be done about this rpf
thing. So you post lies instead. How very clever.
But if you do decide to storm the place. You need a few days
reconnaissance first. You should have escape routes planned if they
are needed. You'd want to know what radio frequencies they use of
course. How many guards and if they have a pattern of sorts. When
the time comes to move on the place you set up and call in a
distraction a few blocks away, move their main guard force away from
your entry point.. and then maybe easily walk into the place.
OTOH, they are somewhat good at security. About 1992 I attend some
Gala Event at the CC INT. I was quite impressed by the security they
used, it was *good*. And then it came to pass that security was
moving in on me. I spotted that before it happened and led them in a
circle and decided to set the meeting spot in the center of the event.
They sent in two women wearing evening gowns for the confrontation.
The confrontation went smoothly, they relaxed security on me almost
totally. But then I was a monkey in good standing at the time. But
even so, I could have fooled them, they weren't really that good.
If the rpf bothers you, storm the place and expose it.
I would, and I could, if I so desired.
What's your excuse anyway?
Warrior
wrote:
>
>
>Ken Shapiro is another person that is in the list, it is true he is in the
>RPF. He was married to Bill Penninger's sister
Are you referring to Trina?
>and they had 2 kids that he could not support with his meager Sea
>Org salary, he was a very upstat staff at ASHO Day, but he was RPF'd
>because he disagreed with Upper Management.
>
>The RPF has destroyed many families and many individuals who once
>wanted to do good for mankind and ended up being punished.
>
>That's why I always advise our faithful OSA readers to leave the SO
>right away before their lives are completely destroyed.
>
>Lagniappe
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
http://warrior.xenu.ca
barb
> "On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:28:22 +0200, Sten-Arne Zerpe <ze...@zerpe.ath.cx>
> wrote in <23vam0pmr5mrehmh9...@News.Individual.NET>:
>
>
>>>I don't think many believe the person is inside the RPF and the stuff says
>>>as much. S/he is afraid of sec checks and writing these stories certainly
>>>would give a 'read'.
>>
>>Why would it give a read Mikey? We all know that the E-meter doesn't
>>work, so why on Gods green Earth are you saying that it would give a
>>read?
>
>
> If they believe it works then it does. Haven't you done the pinch test?
> :-)
Bwaahaaa....Tory did the "pinch test" on an audience member, with the
Mark V I brought. I have seen a thought! lol!
>
>
>>>So end of speculation. But that doesn't mean it has
>>>no merits at all.
>>
>>I'd say it has as much merit as Dorian.
>
>
> Some of the more crazier stuff many accept as true, suc as weapons on
> Gold, aren't well coroborated either. Correct me if I am wrong.
>
>
> --
> Mike Gormez
>
> - WISE is Scientology recruitment in the workplace http://stop-wise.biz/
> - Scientology and health http://www.whyaretheydead.net/
> - 'Religious' child abuse and neglect http://www.taxexemptchildabuse.net/
> - Hubbard on psychs http://whyaretheydead.net/misc/scientology_hatred_of_psychiatry.html
barb
> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:34:16 +0200.
> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> With the Message-ID: <ad6bm01f3cdjl4a9u...@4ax.com>
> And the Organization Header: STOP-WISE.BIZ.
> The famous author: Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl>.
> Wrote on the subject: Re: The RPF Insider Newsletter #3:
>
>
>>"On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:28:22 +0200, Sten-Arne Zerpe <ze...@zerpe.ath.cx>
>>wrote in <23vam0pmr5mrehmh9...@News.Individual.NET>:
>>
>>
>>>>I don't think many believe the person is inside the RPF and the stuff says
>>>>as much. S/he is afraid of sec checks and writing these stories certainly
>>>>would give a 'read'.
>>>
>>>Why would it give a read Mikey? We all know that the E-meter doesn't
>>>work, so why on Gods green Earth are you saying that it would give a
>>>read?
>>
>>If they believe it works then it does. Haven't you done the pinch test?
>>:-)
>
>
> Yeah, I did the pinch test, and it didn't work on me.
>
>
>>>>So end of speculation. But that doesn't mean it has
>>>>no merits at all.
>>>
>>>I'd say it has as much merit as Dorian.
>>
>>Some of the more crazier stuff many accept as true, suc as weapons on
>>Gold, aren't well coroborated either. Correct me if I am wrong.
>
>
> Well, it might be that those "many" who accept the weapons on Gold, are
> also the same people who believed in Dorian when Minton pulled him into
> ARS.
>
> SAZ
>
>
You come over here. I'll pinch you so it works! Since my powerzz include
communicating with animals, I learned a thing or two from this lobster
I met. In fact, our comm was so good, we are now one, if you get my
drift...;)
Keith Henson
Almost certainly. Would anyone be arrested? Probably not. Would
anyone be charged, very unlikely.
The for-certain crimes are related to jamming 50 people in a room and
locking the fire escape doors. Until tens of people die from a fire
in such conditions there is virtually no chance the authorities will
bother with it.
As an example, you have my Aug 2002 posting where around the end of
the year 2001 the house at 541 Clinton being used by Toronto staffers
and families caught fire. No scientologists were home at the time.
The neighbors told the firemen there were 30 people in the house, the
firemen counted 47 beds, zero extinguishers, and two smoke alarms
without batteries.
(In terms of crowding, RPF isn't all that much worse than scientology
staff housing.)
What came of it? Nothing of course. The scientologists had to find a
new place they could crowd into, but nobody was charged for violating
the bylaws on occupancy levels or lack of fire alarms.
>I don't think there would be any crimes being committed inside this
>rpf. Not crimes in the Legal sense anyway. For I don't believe that
>anyone is ~ever~ on the rpf but that they agree to being on this rpf.
>
>They are lucky, the COS is lucky that I, Ted Mayett, am not interested
>in this rpf song and dance. Because I have the power to expose the
>thing fully if I ever decided it needed to be exposed.
>
>No way, never happen, that I would go to Police or the FBI or anything
>and *request* that this issue be investigated. Never happen. I would
>storm the place with a cell phone, and they would have to pay
>attention. Once I dialed 911, identified myself and the location I
>was at, there is no way I would leave that building dead or seriously
>injured. This issue could easily be forced by anyone who truly felt
>that crimes were being committed against people.
>
>But those of you who wail and gnash your teeth over this horrible
>horrible thing... bah. Shut up or do something about the situation.
>OH, you can't do anything, you are powerless, you are useless, what a
>bummer :( You got a million good reasons why you can't do anything
>about this, gee that's awesome.
I have an excuse. :-)
>You posture and carry on and you sound like, "They are forcing people
>to starve to death in that building there." And you get in the
>building, force your way into the building, and you find a religious
>belief that calls for fasting 3 days a month. And somehow this 3 day
>fasting has turned into, "they are starving people to death in that
>building."
>
>This rpf is no more illegal than disconnection is illegal. But post
>away why don't you. Make a lot of noise, use up bandwidth. You might
>get lucky, you might get someone like me interested in this issue.
>Someone with the Power, the Cunning, and the Intelligence to force
>something like this into the limelight.
>OTOH, I don't doubt that were I to storm this rpf location in LA, that
>I maybe wouldn't find some fool chained to a wall or something like
>that. That could easily happen. What I doubt however is that the
>person so chained to the wall would want Freedom or would be willing
>to press charges against the COS.
>
>And there I would be, a successful victor of this campaign with
>picture proof of this and that... and nothing would come of it
>whatsoever. Except maybe I would spend a few days in jail for
>breaking and entering or something like that. And I'd have a kewl
>story to tell the chicks and maybe get laid. (some of them like that
>kind of thing)
Exactly.
>Yes, the COS is lucky. For if I, me, were bothered by this rpf thing
>I would not be posting about it, I would be *doing* something about
>it. But you people are aware that nothing can be done about this rpf
>thing. So you post lies instead. How very clever.
>
>But if you do decide to storm the place. You need a few days
>reconnaissance first. You should have escape routes planned if they
>are needed. You'd want to know what radio frequencies they use of
>course. How many guards and if they have a pattern of sorts. When
>the time comes to move on the place you set up and call in a
>distraction a few blocks away, move their main guard force away from
>your entry point.. and then maybe easily walk into the place.
If you really wanted to have an effect, collect a dozen former scns.
Invade the place and blockade yourselves in with the RPF. I don't
think you would need lethal force, but mace and tasers would be a good
idea, and lots of cell phones. Use tone 40 and take the whole RPF
hostage.
They are already people who have demonstrated intense bonding under
stress. Get them to bond to your group like the story of the bank
robbery that gave the Stockholm Syndrome its name. Dominate them
scare the hell out of them but show them acts of kindness. (Like
ordering in pizza or bergers and milk shakes. :-) )
Make a real drama out of it, lots of press, cops all over, DM or
better Heber going apeshit on camera. String it out several days to
give the inmates a chance to bond with you and the story to build.
(The cops are going to be as reluctant to do the wishes of scientology
as they are to do that of critics.) Then out the windows with the lot
of them on sheet ladders.
Sheesh. I just outlined a million dollar script. Do you suppose we
could get Heber to play himself?
Keith Henson
Barbara Schwarz
Why don't you write a confession that you never were a Scientologist,
Jana, but that you just went in as infiltrator to later attack and lie
about SCN?
After I have exerienced how you lie about me, I came to the conclusion
that nothing what you claim would be wrong with SCN is based on the
truth. I also are convinced you made that Thiorazine thing completely
up.
You never understood the principles of religion, ethic, truth and
honesty, Jana Moreillon, and I am disgusted with you. Whoever declared
you to be a SP did certainly the right thing.
I once posted that it would be not too late for you to get a
relationship with your adult daughter, who disconnected from you. I
understand today very well why she disconnected with you. I would not
want to have a snake like you around me either.
You continue to choose attacking SCN "out of amusement" (your very own
words) over a mother daughter relationship. How can you live with your
kind of lousy character? You and Ida Camburn could be twin sisters.
The same scum, who rather should have a true glance at your own
characters and state of minds before libeling that other are mentally
ill.
Barbara Schwarz
Bent Stigsen
> Bent Stigsen <ng...@thevoid.dk> wrote in message news:<416483a7$0$312$edfa...@dread14.news.tele.dk>...
>
>>Monica Pignotti wrote:
>>
>>>"Magoo" <mag...@att.net> wrote in message news:<415f...@news2.lightlink.com>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>((Sorry it's out of sequence, but #2 will be coming soon, too. Meantime,
>>>>here's a bit more about the RPF))
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The RPF Insider Newsletter # 3
>>>>
>>>>I'm not sure what reaction I'm creating out there and if this stuff is
>>>>really making any difference on anybody, or if this is even making it onto
>>>>the Internet.
>>>
>>>
>>>The reaction I'm having to this, as someone who was actually in the
>>>very first RPF ever created, is extreme skepticism. It sounds way too
>>>good to be true that someone from the RPF was able to actually get out
>>>long enough to post all this info.
>>
>>He/she does not claim to post it, only passing it on to someone helping
>>him/her.
>
>
> Right -- I didn't mean literally "post" it. I meant that it is not
> believeable that a person on the RPF would have the time to write all
> this stuff and e-mail it to someone, to be posted. My point was not
> having time on the RPF to have this kind of access to a computer.
If it is for real, I would assume it was handwritten notes passed on to
someone who later typed it, but still the person had to have time and
opportunity to write it. I can certainly see that it would be
problematic under such conditions.
>>>What I suspect is that someone who
>>>knows a lot about the RPF has set this up. It smacks of another
>>>Dorian type operation to me -- not necessarily by Dorian, but by
>>>someone who thinks that way. Don't you realize that it's really not
>>>okay to lie, not even for a good cause? This loses credibility for
>>>all of us who actually do have real experiences to tell about the RPF.
>>> I'd be very surprised if any of this were real.
>>>
>>>Where are all the skeptics anyway? Am I the only one questioniong
>>>this? I haven't been on ARS for awhile, so maybe I'm missing something
>>>but people around here seem to be falling for this hook, line and
>>>sinker. Sorry but I've been through too many hoaxes to believe this.
>>>I'm going to have to see a lot more evidence than this to even begin
>>>to consider that this might be for real.
>>>
>>>Monica
>>
>>It is regarded with skepticism, and has been questioned. But also been
>>supported by someone who has been in the RPF as late as March 2003.
>>See:..
>>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20041005100903.22172.00001570%40mb-m18.aol.com
>
>
> Just because some of the things reported were verified as true, that
> doesn't mean that someone is posting from inside the RPF. I don't
> find that person's comments in the least bit convincing.
>
> Monica
I agree with others that it is not in any way enough. And after looking
at it again, I agree that is not convincing. Chuck Beatty who supports
the story is on the Insiders list in the first letter. If it is accurate
to the point, it would mean that it is written a long time ago. If so,
why does the letters surface one at the time a day or so apart? why not
all at once? Does not make sense to me.
I do not have your and others long time experience regarding
misinformation here on ars, so my judgement might be off. But at present
I think it neither can be dismissed as misinformation, nor regarded as
truth.
/Bent
Zinj
says...
<snip>
> Sheesh. I just outlined a million dollar script. Do you suppose we
> could get Heber to play himself?
>
> Keith Henson
I already have a script locked in about the 'raid'/'flight' where
Scientologists unable to reach their 'seniors' begin wandering out onto
L. Ron Way and into the City.
But; Scientology is and will be good for *many* zombie movies.
Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>If you really wanted to have an effect, collect a dozen former scns.
>Invade the place and blockade yourselves in with the RPF. I don't
>think you would need lethal force, but mace and tasers would be a good
>idea, and lots of cell phones. Use tone 40 and take the whole RPF
>hostage.
>
Oh my. This is great! I never thought of this. This is much better
than what I thought of, I like it!
Lethal force would be out of the question of course, totally. The
guards trapped inside would have handcuffs that could be used on them,
so you wouldn't even need to bring your own restraints.
>They are already people who have demonstrated intense bonding under
>stress. Get them to bond to your group like the story of the bank
>robbery that gave the Stockholm Syndrome its name. Dominate them
>scare the hell out of them but show them acts of kindness. (Like
>ordering in pizza or bergers and milk shakes. :-) )
>
Yes. In negotiations you would trade off the guards for these things.
>Make a real drama out of it, lots of press, cops all over, DM or
>better Heber going apeshit on camera. String it out several days to
>give the inmates a chance to bond with you and the story to build.
>(The cops are going to be as reluctant to do the wishes of scientology
>as they are to do that of critics.) Then out the windows with the lot
>of them on sheet ladders.
>
Well, if I did this, what would be my demands?
Prices of course :-) I would want it in writing, guaranteed, that the
price of the SHSBC cassettes, all 447 of them, is reduced to only
$8,756.00 *before* any applicable special discounts are factored in.
LOL
>Sheesh. I just outlined a million dollar script.
'Standoff at the RPF' Awesome :)
> Do you suppose we
>could get Heber to play himself?
>
>Keith Henson
>
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>>Press. And what would it all come to anyway? Would there be any real
>>crimes going on?
>
>Almost certainly. Would anyone be arrested? Probably not. Would
>anyone be charged, very unlikely.
>
>The for-certain crimes are related to jamming 50 people in a room and
>locking the fire escape doors. Until tens of people die from a fire
>in such conditions there is virtually no chance the authorities will
>bother with it.
>
Yeah, this be a fact. :(
>As an example, you have my Aug 2002 posting where around the end of
>the year 2001 the house at 541 Clinton being used by Toronto staffers
>and families caught fire. No scientologists were home at the time.
>The neighbors told the firemen there were 30 people in the house, the
>firemen counted 47 beds, zero extinguishers, and two smoke alarms
>without batteries.
>
I do remember this.
>(In terms of crowding, RPF isn't all that much worse than scientology
>staff housing.)
>
Here are two newspaper articles on overcrowding in Clearwater:
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/spb2.htm#spr13
>What came of it? Nothing of course. The scientologists had to find a
>new place they could crowd into, but nobody was charged for violating
>the bylaws on occupancy levels or lack of fire alarms.
>
Yeah, I remember all the publicity you made over this issue in
Toronto. I'd say you did everything you really could to make this
issue known... and nothing ever came of it. sigh.
RolandRB
My sentiments entirely. The person writing this has gotten hold of
some useful facts but has turned it all into fiction. The value of the
facts thereby being lost in the process.
Ed
Maybe you all missed it, but look up Arnie Lerma's post of
yesterday in which he said that the RPF Insider person had talked with
Arnie and Arnie had tried to persuade him to just tell his story
straight on, but I guess RPFI wanted to dress it up, thinking that
would be more effective in reaching people inside Scn. (RPFI uses way
too many exclamation points for the best effect on people who above
all want straight data.)
In any case, RPFI was no longer in the RPF when he or she wrote this
material, but obviously was before. Anyone who knows anything about
Scn would know that the RPF is so tight that no one could write or
smuggle out something like this.
Ed
Zinj
Rema...@See.Comment.Header says...
> -----
>
> Very interesting. Hmmmm . . . . it could fly.
>
> -----
No it couldn't. I hope Ted wasn't seriously suggesting any such thing,
and I hope even more that nobody else takes it seriously.
At the very least it would mean (legitimate) arrest for anyone doing so,
and on a whole battery of charges, depending on the amount of force
used.
Worse, it would give the 'Church' of Scientology fodder for years of
'persecution' whines, and the ability to legitimately accuse 'critics'
of being 'violent' and worse, instead of having to make it all up as
they've done for years.
Very bad idea.
Galileo
(peregrine) wrote:
>This post is more speculation, nothing more than an outside
>observer's opinion, and a newbie's opinion at that. Just my
>thoughts on the matter. My apologies in advance.
>
>> Bent Stigsen <ng...@thevoid.dk> wrote in message news:<416483a7$0$312$edfa...@dread14.news.tele.dk>...
>
><snip>
>
>I do not have your and others long time experience regarding
>misinformation here on ars, so my judgement might be off.
>
><snip>
>
>/Bent
>----
>Ditto. However one other possibility occurs to me. Could the RPF
>insider be one of the RPFers themselves (for want of a better
>word - I don't know the proper term - you know, the ones doing
>the auditing, etc) who is just fed up with being asked to do
>these things to other people? Or someone higher up in the cult
>who knows about the RPF who's had an attack of conscience? Why
>does it necessarily have to be someone who's been sent there
>involuntarily?
>
Good point. Another possibility is that the Insider is someone who
was POSTED to the RPF not from their own choice but from the choice of
higher ups. There may even be a possiblity that RPF posts are
considered the dregs of the SO and only failed staffers on other posts
are ordinarily posted there as "amends" or ways to work through ethics
conditions.
What better way to administer such an important ethics project than by
using ethics bait to administer it? They can all learn and everyone
wins!
I know that idea sounds insane but this ain't a sane organization.
This concept sounds very much like the usual LRH twisted logic that
Ronbots eat up on a daily basis.
When I was in the CoS staff members were often posted where they were
needed and they simply had to suck it up and produce. I was never put
on a post where my greatest interests lay, where my personality fit or
where my abilities could be put to the best use. Lack of
satisfaction from the job and ethical dilemmas would certainly lower
my morale if I were posted in some capacity for administering the RPF.
>This is *pure* speculation. Treat it accordingly. Like just
>about everyone else here I have no idea who it could be.
>
>Peregrine
>***
>The moment I let go of of it
>Was the moment I got more than I could handle
>The moment I jumped off of it
>Was the moment I touched down
> Alanis Morrisette - Thank U
>
Monica Pignotti
> "On 7 Oct 2004 10:24:16 -0700, pign...@worldnet.att.net (Monica Pignotti)
> wrote in <53183a73.04100...@posting.google.com>:
>
> >Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl> wrote in message news:<jq1am09dvdl52hd46...@4ax.com>...
> >> What corroborating facts would that be?
> >>
> >> I don't think many believe the person is inside the RPF and the stuff says
> >> as much. S/he is afraid of sec checks and writing these stories certainly
> >> would give a 'read'. So end of speculation. But that doesn't mean it has
> >> no merits at all.
> >
> >If a person claims to be posting from inside the RPF and is not
> >actually doing so, that is what is known as a lie. It's not okay to
> >lie for the purpose of getting a point across. This is Dorian all
> >over again (probably not the same person but someone who "thinks" like
> >he does). If someone lies, then their work has no merit. End of
> >story.
>
> Dorian was about rendering Minton a gullible fool with unbelievable
> stories. So far I see nothing of that with the RPF postings by Tory.
Someone getting such lengthy messages out from the RPF is not
unbelievable? To me that's a pretty incredible claim. He maintains
that everyone on the RPF is constantly watched (which is true) yet he
is able to write all this and get it out without anyone knowing? The
content of what he said about what's going on in the RPF is very
likely true for the most part, but I don't think there's any more
chance that he's currently in the RPF and writing to us from there,
than there was of Dorian being for real, so in that sense, this is
comparable to Dorian, as is the response from certain
ex-Scientologists who don't appear to be bothered by lies, as long as
its for a good cause.
>It
> would get painful if people who are supposedly on the RPF right now, would
> be seen in public somewhere abroad.
>
>I can see the point of driving cult management crazy with a leaking
>'insider'.
I doubt very much this is driving cult management crazy. I'm sure
they see it for the hoax that it is. The only ones who are going to
suffer from this are people who are telling the truth about the RPF,
who will not be believed any longer, which will in turn prevent people
from being warned about the dangers of Scientology. Instead of
behaving like OSA, this person needs to go get some help with getting
out of the cult mindset because this form of "activism" on his part is
going to do us far more harm than good, IMO.
>Perhaps after some time the full story will come out.
And when it does, all of us who have actual truths to tell about the
RPF lose credibility. He could have told his story the way the rest of
us did.
>Until
>then try to kick holes in the story if you can. I can't because I've
never
>been a member.
No need to "kick holes". Those of us familiar with the RPF know that
it would be next to impossible for an RPFer to get all this out while
on the inside. It's painfully obvious that this guy is not really
presently inside the RPF.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> (In terms of crowding, RPF isn't all that much worse than scientology
> staff housing.)
Very true. On the Apollo, the women's and men's dormitories for the
regular crew were very similar to what was described. Of course,
there, we were not under U.S. board of health laws. The RPF sleeping
conditions there were actually a bit better on the Apollo than the PAC
RPF because most of the time members were allowed to sleep outside on
the decks, which was actually better than sleeping indoors in crowded,
unsanitary conditions. We got rained on a lot during the night, but
being in the fresh air was worth it.
I think you're right. It would be very hard to get anything done
about health violations. As for people being held against their will,
the police could come in and ask if anyone wants to leave and give
them the opportunity, but it's doubful that any would admit to it,
even if that were the case. Scientologists/SO Members would be too
terrified of the consequences of saying something like that to an
officer of the law. The prospect of being barred from Scientology
forever is far more terrifying to a deeply committed Scientologist/SO
Member than anything they were experiencing on the RPF would be.
The way to get good information out to people, even if the law
can't/won't do anything about it is for people recently out to tell
about their experiences, anonymously if necessary, but to do it
truthfully, as ex-SO members.
Monica
Dave Bird
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>I wish I could say I had read all of the posts on this subject that
>are allegedly coming from someone on the inside of this rpf.
>
>And I read what Keith Henson said about the difficulties of getting
>Police interested in this kind of thing, especially where the COS is
>involved.
The information sounds authentic to what happens in RPF, at least
as I've heard it from witnesses. But I doubt this person is
literally in the RPF right now and getting free to post
articles -- pull the other one, it's got bells on.
Calling the police to get this character out of an RPF compound
somewhere would be like calling the police to get Alice out of
the Rabbit-Hole.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In article<7db3d0ad.04100...@posting.google.com>, Lulu Belle
<exes...@yahoo.com> writes:
>There has been some discussion about the accuracy of the statements
>that "RPF Insider" has made.
>
> Well, I can tell you for a fact that he's not a Dorian. Listed below
>are some of the things that he mentions that I can personally vouch
>for as being true and correct.
I expect everything he says about the RPF is true and correct ---
except his claim to be actually in it right now.
>
>If I pick through his data more extensively, I'm sure there are other
>things I can corroborate; I just don't have the time to do that. I
>personally am
>certain, knowing what I know, that all of his data is genuine and not
>fabricated.
>
In article<53183a73.0410...@posting.google.com>, Monica
Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>I agree that the information he is presenting is very likely correct
>and fits with what others have told. What I do not believe is that
>this person is actually posting from inside the RPF
-- . . : : ,; . : ' ___.
uno, dos, tres, |FUEGO| .:. .:. .:': :' .:':' :. . : (") #oH|
' ' :' : :' : .::. H_ ~~~|
< > __ ,;;,. \\::// R_) |
'-|"""(") {__}::===== ....'''' ' ' ' ___..\||/....L\. ...|
____||--|_'--/__\___ '' .--''':::::::::::::::::::::
\ / /////////////S.Coronado/////
;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^
LRonHubbard is shelled byGoats inHell.READ http://www.ronthewarhero.org
Mike Gormez
wrote in <53183a73.0410...@posting.google.com>:
>>Perhaps after some time the full story will come out.
>
>And when it does, all of us who have actual truths to tell about the
>RPF lose credibility. He could have told his story the way the rest of
>us did.
Geez fucking christ, Monica! Will you monitor the whole internet lest
someone pulls a phrank vis-a-vis the RPF? There is so much crap posted
over the years but when it is about the RPF and your 'truths' then it
becomes holy land and needs to be defend.
Give the people some credits please, they aren't all complete fools as you
imply. Eventually the fakers such as Fishman will be exposed. When he
comes here he gets kicked in the nut merciless. And so if this story
turns out to be crap so will that be kicked in the chin. But sofar the
gist of it does not ring untrue or made up and a recent departee gives it
its thumbs up. It is not a fucking affidavit for crying out loud.
Yes, s/he could have told the story like you did and the rest, but I
missed the policy letter demanding so. Do I wish it was just the naked
truths and nothing but? Of course! Because I ain't going to web this, not
without substantial comments such have been posted here including yours.
But I also have participated in talking about pickets while none was about
to, just to get the cult a skipped heartbeat.
>
>>Until
>>then try to kick holes in the story if you can. I can't because I've
>never
>>been a member.
>
>No need to "kick holes". Those of us familiar with the RPF know that
>it would be next to impossible for an RPFer to get all this out while
>on the inside. It's painfully obvious that this guy is not really
>presently inside the RPF.
Well, then you have done your job.
barb
> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:39:00 -0700.
> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> With the Message-ID: <4165...@news2.lightlink.com>
> And the Organization Header: ARSCC Intel Div.
> The famous author: barb <bwa...@cox.net>.
> Hmm, I'm sure that could be interpreted in many ways, barb :-)
>
>
>>Since my powerzz include
>>communicating with animals, I learned a thing or two from this lobster
>>I met. In fact, our comm was so good, we are now one, if you get my
>>drift...;)
>
>
> You and the lobster are now one? You married a lobster?
>
> SAZ
>
>
Uh huh...and our guests brought melted butter to the ceremony.
arnie lerma
wrote:
Okay, well, Galileo, this is a universal truth, this is just how it
is, this is ALSO who it would be IF Scientology were in fact nothing
more than hell as secribed by CS Lewis:
"The Screwtape letters likened hell to a bureaucracy in which
everyone is perpetually concerned about dignity and advancement, where
everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives the deadly serious
passions of envy, self-importance and resentment."
This reminded me of what Scientology is actually like, especially
it's management organization - the sea org.
>satisfaction from the job and ethical dilemmas would certainly lower
>my morale if I were posted in some capacity for administering the RPF.
>
>>This is *pure* speculation. Treat it accordingly. Like just
>>about everyone else here I have no idea who it could be.
>>
>>Peregrine
>>***
>>The moment I let go of of it
>>Was the moment I got more than I could handle
>>The moment I jumped off of it
>>Was the moment I touched down
>> Alanis Morrisette - Thank U
>>
If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/comedy.html
The internet is the Liberty Tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/libertyl.html
The only thing that works in Scientology are its lawyers
http://www.lermanet.com/silence.htm
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind
http://www.lermanet.com
Michael Greenberg
I guess I missed that Lerma post along with everyone else.
Where is that Ed?
Michael Greenberg
arnie lerma
wrote:
>
>
>
>I guess I missed that Lerma post along with everyone else.
>Where is that Ed?
>
Did Scientology call an ALL HANDS to handle this flap?
http://www.lermanet.com/osa/osawhoiswho.htm
>
>Michael Greenberg
>>
>> In any case, RPFI was no longer in the RPF when he or she wrote this
>> material, but obviously was before. Anyone who knows anything about
>> Scn would know that the RPF is so tight that no one could write or
>> smuggle out something like this.
>>
>> Ed
If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
Michael Greenberg
> On 8 Oct 2004 17:59:25 -0700, micha...@mac.com (Michael Greenberg)
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >I guess I missed that Lerma post along with everyone else.
> >Where is that Ed?
> >
>
>
> Did Scientology call an ALL HANDS to handle this flap?
> http://www.lermanet.com/osa/osawhoiswho.htm
>
> >
> >Michael Greenberg
No Arnie here is the unaltered post. Dont do that again:
Ed wrote:
Maybe you all missed it, but look up Arnie Lerma's post of
yesterday in which he said that the RPF Insider person had talked with
Arnie and Arnie had tried to persuade him to just tell his story
straight on, but I guess RPFI wanted to dress it up, thinking that
would be more effective in reaching people inside Scn. (RPFI uses way
too many exclamation points for the best effect on people who above
all want straight data.)
To which I replied:
> >"I guess I missed that Lerma post along with everyone else.
> >Where is that Ed?"
Where is this post where you told the newsgroup that you counselled the RPFI
to be completely honest in his presentation Arnie. It doesnt exist Lerma.
Both you and Tory were instrumental in this story being presented without any
research or verification he was in fact an insider.
realpch
Perhaps it's this one?
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=mcebm0h11m85cihjqecjsv1ilp63j8vv27%404ax.com
Peach
Ed Hamerstrom
Michael Greenberg wrote:
>
> Ed <met...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<4166A813...@aol.com>...
[snip]
> I guess I missed that Lerma post along with everyone else.
> Where is that Ed?
>
> Michael Greenberg
> >
Here's the original post from Google:
From: arnie lerma (ale...@bellatlantic.net)
Subject: Re: Regarding validity of RPF Insider
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-10-07 12:00:51 PST
On 7 Oct 2004 13:20:14 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>In article <53183a73.04100...@posting.google.com>,
>Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>Just because this person is saying accurate things about the RPF
>>doesn't prove that the person is actually posting from inside the RPF.
>>It could be some recently exited ex-Scientologist and Sea Org member
>>who knows a lot about the RPF and still being in the cult mindset, is
>>making up the story that he is posting from inside the RPF.
>
>That's exactly what my sourcs are saying: that this is someone who has
>recent RPF experience and is on their way out of Scientology, but not
>officially out yet. And they thought it would be fun to screw with
>INT MGMT by pretending to be posting from inside the RPF. They don't
>realize (or don't care) that this silly pretense damages the
>credibility of the rest of their material, which appears to be
>factually correct.
>
yes, now that the cats out of the bag I should point out that I
told this prson that i didnt think any option beyond writing up their
wholes tory was good idea, and to just stick to the facts, but,
scientologists ARE reading the net, it doesnt take them YEARS to GET
OVER IT, after spending YEARS trying to figure out what happenned to
them....like i did..
And that is because of the webpages...
The information is getting to people, and like 20+ year member
Michael Tilse, who found out that the stuff on the net "Was not all
lies" when he went to the Coroners office in San Luis Ibispo and SAW
the death certificate and coroners report showing VISTARIL in Hubbards
bloodstream...
Folks are waking up faster and faster...realizing at lighting speed
just how many lies they had been told, and within PLENTY of time for
the statute of limitations.....
And they are TOTALLY PISSED...
we do know there a number of differnt RPF units, and im sure some of
those, nobody ever escapes from... Having had their entire world
controlled by Hubbard's and Herr dwarf's lies for decades, they are
not easy to control now, nor do i choose to try to control them,
having been one of them, I do recammend the path I feel is best, to
tell your whole story Gary Weber style, but what you see is what you
get, and i consider it useful with this caveat included.
I find the required meterd checks to be beyond orwellian.
even if they do get the occassional meal.
The reports of sometimes better treatments in the RPF recently are
likely ALSO because of the collective online web effort...and
So I would not complain about it.
Arnie Lerma
>But I don't think you can compare this to Dorian. Dorian was peddling
>a fantastic -- even outrageous -- story, with no corroborating
>evidence.
>
rigght
> The RPF Insider is posting mundane details of peoples'
>personal situations -- marital difficulties, medical conditions --
>which are entirely believable and match what other ex-Scns know. To
>the extent that the info contradicts conventional ARS wisdom about the
>Sea Org, it makes Scn look a little better than we thought, e.g.,
>condiitons are harsh, but sick people *are* getting at least some
>medical care.
>
>I predict the RPF Insider will soon drop this "insider" pretense and
>be fully out. In the mean time, they're having their fun and at least
>providing more interesting reading than the OSA sock puppets.
>
>Now about this "Truth Rundown" stuff that someone recently asked the
>RPF Insider about? Can anyone here verify or dispute the use of this
>procedure on the RPF? It sounds like the reeducation camps the
>communist Chinese used during the Cultural Revolution.
>
>-- Dave Touretzky: "Sounds like a scene from The Marcabian Candidate"
> http://Stop-Narconon.org http://ScientologyWatch.org
ptsc
>On 6 Oct 2004 15:21:07 -0700, pign...@worldnet.att.net (Monica
>Pignotti) wrote:
>
>
>>Where are all the skeptics anyway? Am I the only one questioniong
>>this? I haven't been on ARS for awhile, so maybe I'm missing something
>>but people around here seem to be falling for this hook, line and
>>sinker. Sorry but I've been through too many hoaxes to believe this.
>>I'm going to have to see a lot more evidence than this to even begin
>>to consider that this might be for real.
>>
>>Monica
>
>It has changed dramatically here on this NG. Stuff like this is
>fawned over by many. You actually have people that believe that
>unverified information is a great addition to the body of knowledge
>that exists regarding scientology. Stuff like this, what was called
>garbage at one time, is applauded almost daily now. It really is
>quite fascinating. And this, this 'rpf insider' thing will end up on
>a web page no doubt accompanied by posts of "thanks for webbing this",
>"it is really great that stuff like this is webbed", and so on.
>I tell you it is really fascinating.
>
>You perhaps think of olden times when someone would put up posts like
>this and a dozen people would ask for corroborating facts to back up
>the claims being made. Not anymore though.
>
>If it is something negative, if it makes scientology look bad, then it
>gets believed and applauded. :(
Unfortunately, the nuts have taken over the asylum. Even I barely
find it worthwhile to comment about this kind of thing. All you really
get in return for such efforts is attacks from microcephalics.
Been there, done that. Most of the sane people left years ago.
(Which would make me myself one of the nuts, come to think
of it, for sticking around this shithole.)
But as for "RPF Insider" himself.
Perhaps the details are from a real former RPF'er. I find the idea of
someone writing this while on the RPF, however, totally incredible.
The list of names is the sort of thing that may eventually pan out, so
the posts aren't entirely worthless, and the details do conform with
what I know of RPF.
I think this would be a fairly harmless deception as such, but actually
believing it is a whole new level of stupidity. The main reason it's a
harmful lie is that it is told to people who lack all workable bullshit
filters, and who will mindlessly applaud goddamn anything. It would
be harmless if the only people fool enough to take it for literal truth
were OSA goons.
Zinj
pt...@nowhere.com says...
Gee Petey.. did you sign your own 'gag agreement', or are you just
ashamed of assisting to hide documents without even *that* as an excuse?
Maybe you think ARS is going downhill because nobody is calling Bob
Minton or others a 'cocksucker' in tune.
Mike Gormez
wrote in <d9e32222.04100...@posting.google.com>:
>Both you and Tory were instrumental in this story being presented without any
>research or verification he was in fact an insider.
Aside from the RPFI issue, which turned out to be a footbullet for the
person, because not his content but format has become the topic of
discussion.
But how would an inmate confirm he's an inmate of the RPF. By sending a
postcard or waiving a towl from a window?
arnie lerma
wrote:
>"On 9 Oct 2004 09:29:29 -0700, micha...@mac.com (Michael Greenberg)
>wrote in <d9e32222.04100...@posting.google.com>:
>
>>Both you and Tory were instrumental in this story being presented without any
>>research or verification he was in fact an insider.
>
>Aside from the RPFI issue, which turned out to be a footbullet for the
>person, because not his content but format has become the topic of
>discussion.
yes yes,. you rock ultramike, pursue, reenforce, and go after the
waiter that served the meal, never discuss the meal..
>
>But how would an inmate confirm he's an inmate of the RPF. By sending a
>postcard or waiving a towl from a window?
If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
Mike Gormez
wrote in <dciim0tlqrtd1kol6...@4ax.com>:
>>>Both you and Tory were instrumental in this story being presented without any
>>>research or verification he was in fact an insider.
>>
>>Aside from the RPFI issue, which turned out to be a footbullet for the
>>person, because not his content but format has become the topic of
>>discussion.
>
> yes yes,. you rock ultramike, pursue, reenforce, and go after the
>waiter that served the meal, never discuss the meal..
I am not u-mike.
Michael Greenberg
Thanks for that Ed, but I missed where Lerma apologized for failing to
research or investigate the RPFI or even worse possibly lied about him
being Inside at all,along with Tory.
"Now that the cats out of the bag"-What the hell is that suposed to
mean?
I lied for the benefit of the critic movement,but gosh golly gee wiz,I
guess I got caught.
Michael Greenberg
Michael Greenberg
Thanks for that Ed, but I missed where Lerma apologized for failing to
research or investigate the RPFI or even worse possibly lied about him
being Inside at all,along with Tory.
"Now that the cats out of the bag"-What the hell is that suposed to
mean?
I lied for the benefit of the critic movement,but gosh golly gee wiz,I
guess I got caught.
Michael Greenberg
Ed
Michael Greenberg wrote:
[snip]
[quoting Arnie Lerma's earlier post]
I didn't say or imply any of that; that's all your invention.
What Arnie is saying is that he talked with the RPFI person before the
posts appeared and he tried to get RPFI to just tell his story
straight, but RPFI had his/her own idea how to do it.
Ed
Michael Greenberg
> "On 9 Oct 2004 09:29:29 -0700, micha...@mac.com (Michael Greenberg)
> wrote in <d9e32222.04100...@posting.google.com>:
>
> >Both you and Tory were instrumental in this story being presented without any
> >research or verification he was in fact an insider.
>
> Aside from the RPFI issue, which turned out to be a footbullet for the
> person, because not his content but format has become the topic of
> discussion.
>
> But how would an inmate confirm he's an inmate of the RPF. By sending a
> postcard or waiving a towl from a window?
Good question Mike. I was looking for at least a cursory attempt to
verify where this fellow was communicating from. Based on what Arnie &
Tory have written no research or investigation was under taken before
unleashing this important story. Names and phone numbers can be
verified, confidentially.
If he wasnt willing to confide his name to them, then I probably would
either 1.Not Publish or
2.Publish with a big red disclaimor and banner of Skepticism which was
never done.
Following a basic critical thinking assesment of credibility.
Michael Greenberg
Michael Greenberg
> "On 9 Oct 2004 09:29:29 -0700, micha...@mac.com (Michael Greenberg)
> wrote in <d9e32222.04100...@posting.google.com>:
>
> >Both you and Tory were instrumental in this story being presented without any
> >research or verification he was in fact an insider.
>
> Aside from the RPFI issue, which turned out to be a footbullet for the
> person, because not his content but format has become the topic of
> discussion.
>
> But how would an inmate confirm he's an inmate of the RPF. By sending a
> postcard or waiving a towl from a window?
Michael Greenberg
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:23:21 +0200, Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl>
> wrote:
>
> >"On 9 Oct 2004 09:29:29 -0700, micha...@mac.com (Michael Greenberg)
> >wrote in <d9e32222.04100...@posting.google.com>:
> >
> >>Both you and Tory were instrumental in this story being presented without any
> >>research or verification he was in fact an insider.
> >
> >Aside from the RPFI issue, which turned out to be a footbullet for the
> >person, because not his content but format has become the topic of
> >discussion.
>
> yes yes,. you rock ultramike, pursue, reenforce, and go after the
> waiter that served the meal, never discuss the meal..
Arnie, Tory has admitted on OCMB that she really does very little
research if any at all,in general.
She's never hidden that from anyone. She posts "from the heart" if you
will.
That doesnt make her a bad person,but thats someone I read with
extreme skepticism.
She posts very liberally on OCMB. Threads about scientologists
breaking her screen door.and another about a scientologist moving
items inside her car. With no evidence whatsoever she dedicates entire
threads to naturally occurances in life and attributes them to the
cult. Its really an ongoing thing for a long time now.
Maybe my point of view is unique because I was a regular at OCMB for
quite a while and I read these paranoid fantasies monthly. Because of
this ongoing behaviour, I believe I developed a healthy skepticism of
her writings in general.
Many people have spoken with her about doing research and using basic
critical thinking technique.
Shes just not interested. When she gets questioned she accuses them of
being "Bill Yaude".
Michael Greenberg
Michael Greenberg
OK, I misunderstood you Ed. In any event, that would make Lerma
complicit in the ruse. An act
of omission, if you will. Thats how I see it anyway.
Michael Greenberg
Ed
No, that doesn't make Arnie complicit in the ruse. He says
he gave RPFI some advice, and RPFI didn't follow it.
And WTF does it matter? What matters is that our country is allowing
the Co$ complete liberty to imprison members in terrible squalid
conditions. Any number of ex-Scns have posted their accounts of this
offense, and enough recent ex-Scns have corroborated RPFI's account to
make it clear that it is the real deal and not a fiction.
I've never understood why you keep wanting to support bullies and
enslavers against the honest attempts of honest people to shed light
on terrible abuses.
Ed
Ted Mayett
>Been there, done that. Most of the sane people left years ago.
>(Which would make me myself one of the nuts, come to think
>of it, for sticking around this shithole.)
>
Your not the only nut here, I assure you of that. Glad to see you
back. Over the years I've come to develop quite a respect for you.
Hope we get to meet one day, I can beat you at anything, an arm
wrestle, chess, anything at all. I'm a pleasant fellow to be around.
My time is drawing to a close, web work to clean up, should all be
done by years end.
>But as for "RPF Insider" himself.
>
>Perhaps the details are from a real former RPF'er.
Yeah, I agree, perhaps it is honest information. But do you read
these? I read part of the first one only, it sounded like garbage
hype to me.
> I find the idea of
>someone writing this while on the RPF, however, totally incredible.
>The list of names is the sort of thing that may eventually pan out, so
>the posts aren't entirely worthless, and the details do conform with
>what I know of RPF.
>
>I think this would be a fairly harmless deception as such, but actually
>believing it is a whole new level of stupidity. The main reason it's a
>harmful lie is that it is told to people who lack all workable bullshit
>filters, and who will mindlessly applaud goddamn anything. It would
>be harmless if the only people fool enough to take it for literal truth
>were OSA goons.
This is information that makes scientology look bad, and that makes it
valuable information for that reason only.
Not today, a different day, a different thread... what do you make of
it all I wonder. Prices are lowering, newspaper articles coming in
with real numbers in them, and low numbers for how many members. And
I just found 3 different US orgs that all have different business
hours from each other. I believe it will soon be announced that the
red dictionary, tech dictionary has been re-released, but I think it
is the same exact book. Tampa with the borg, 7 million dollar
building for the SF org. It is like all crossed signals coming in
these days. Yellow tents and Jeff Jacobsen writes about a sign is
down for years now at the Big Blue.
Is it ending? Or are they re-grouping and heading for the re-emerge?
You could be a nice guy you know, do the planet a favor, tie it all
together somehow. I can't work it out, just can't work it all out.
--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
Keith Henson
snip
>>
> No, that doesn't make Arnie complicit in the ruse. He says
>he gave RPFI some advice, and RPFI didn't follow it.
>
>And WTF does it matter? What matters is that our country is allowing
>the Co$ complete liberty to imprison members in terrible squalid
>conditions.
I think I know why law enforcement, or even the health code people
don't go in and put a stop to RPF abuses.
It is like they don't mess with S&M. They figure people are doing
this weird degrading stuff "willingly" and don't want to interrupt and
get blasted from victim and perpatrator alike.
>Any number of ex-Scns have posted their accounts of this
>offense, and enough recent ex-Scns have corroborated RPFI's account to
>make it clear that it is the real deal and not a fiction.
>
>I've never understood why you keep wanting to support bullies and
>enslavers against the honest attempts of honest people to shed light
>on terrible abuses.
>
>Ed
Email me and I will tell you something of the background involved
here.
It is much stranger than you would think.
Keith Henson
Michael Greenberg
> Someone had the gall to suggest it was "poetic license". Dramatic license is afforded
Mel Gibson at MGM studios,not Arnie Lerma on ars. He is expected to be
truthful in a public forum.
And WTF does it matter?
It matters because the coffers of RPF information is full of lies,
duplicity and embellishments.
This is one more ruse. What am I supposed to believe Ed?
What matters is that our country is allowing
the Co$ complete liberty to imprison members in terrible squalid
conditions.
Its a bad situation I agree.
Any number of ex-Scns have posted their accounts of this
> offense, and enough recent ex-Scns have corroborated RPFI's account to
> make it clear that it is the real deal and not a fiction.
I live 30 minutes from Gold Ed. I am very thirsty and excited to know
what really goes on over there.
I've never understood why you keep wanting to support bullies and
> enslavers against the honest attempts of honest people to shed light
> on terrible abuses.
Im sorry if that is your perception of me. Im not fighting the old
wars any longer and hopefully wiser too.
xenu
Michael Greenberg says...
>
>Based on what Arnie & Tory have written no research or
>investigation was under taken before
>unleashing this important story.
>
>
Based upon what Michael Greenberg has written he is full of shit.
Monica Pignotti
> Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl> wrote in message news:<1n6im053ircvn5c0e...@4ax.com>...
> > "On 9 Oct 2004 09:29:29 -0700, micha...@mac.com (Michael Greenberg)
> > wrote in <d9e32222.04100...@posting.google.com>:
> >
> > >Both you and Tory were instrumental in this story being presented without any
> > >research or verification he was in fact an insider.
> >
> > Aside from the RPFI issue, which turned out to be a footbullet for the
> > person, because not his content but format has become the topic of
> > discussion.
> >
> > But how would an inmate confirm he's an inmate of the RPF. By sending a
> > postcard or waiving a towl from a window?
>
> Good question Mike. I was looking for at least a cursory attempt to
> verify where this fellow was communicating from.
Indeed. Someone claiming to be sending communication from inside the
RPF is an incredible claim, given all we know about the nature of the
RPF. As the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary
evidence. This is even the case, whether or not that evidence is
difficult or impossible to obtain.
>Based on what Arnie &
> Tory have written no research or investigation was under taken before
> unleashing this important story. Names and phone numbers can be
> verified, confidentially.
> If he wasnt willing to confide his name to them, then I probably would
> either 1.Not Publish or
> 2.Publish with a big red disclaimor and banner of Skepticism which was
> never done.
And that really is the bottom line -- the decision whether or not to
"publish" (or post) such writings. We're talking about a newsgroup
here, but when it comes to responsible, credible journalism, material
needs to be verified before publication. Arnie, as I understand it,
would not go along with posting this material and I agree with his
decision. If I were asked, I would not have posted it either because
when something this unlikely to be true gets made public, we all lose
credibility (I refer here to the claim of communicating from inside
the RPF, not the content of his claims of what goes on there, although
anything this person writes that has not been corroborated by others
has to be highly questionable given the incredibility of his claim to
be a current RPF insider).
Monica
Lady Chatterly
Moniker <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>micha...@mac.com (Michael Greenberg) wrote in message news:<d9e32222.04101...@posting.google.com>...
>> Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl> wrote in message news:<1n6im053ircvn5c0e...@4ax.com>...
>> > "On 9 Oct 2004 09:29:29 -0700, micha...@mac.com (Michael Greenberg)
>> > wrote in <d9e32222.04100...@posting.google.com>:
>> >
>> > >Both you and Tory were instrumental in this story being presented without any
>> > >research or verification he was in fact an insider.
>> >
>> > Aside from the RPFI issue, which turned out to be a footbullet for the
>> > person, because not his content but format has become the topic of
>> > discussion.
>> >
>> > But how would an inmate confirm he's an inmate of the RPF. By sending a
>> > postcard or waiving a towl from a window?
>>
>> Good question Mike. I was looking for at least a cursory attempt to
>> verify where this fellow was communicating from.
>
>Indeed. Someone claiming to be sending communication from inside the
>RPF is an incredible claim, given all we know about the nature of the
>RPF. As the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary
>evidence. This is even the case, whether or not that evidence is
>difficult or impossible to obtain.
Appearances can be deceiving, or in your case, truly disgusting.
>>Based on what Arnie &
>> Tory have written no research or investigation was under taken before
>> unleashing this important story. Names and phone numbers can be
>> verified, confidentially.
>> If he wasnt willing to confide his name to them, then I probably would
>> either 1.Not Publish or
>> 2.Publish with a big red disclaimor and banner of Skepticism which was
>> never done.
>
>And that really is the bottom line -- the decision whether or not to
>"publish" (or post) such writings. We're talking about a newsgroup
>here, but when it comes to responsible, credible journalism, material
>needs to be verified before publication. Arnie, as I understand it,
>would not go along with posting this material and I agree with his
>decision. If I were asked, I would not have posted it either because
>when something this unlikely to be true gets made public, we all lose
>credibility (I refer here to the claim of communicating from inside
>the RPF, not the content of his claims of what goes on there, although
>anything this person writes that has not been corroborated by others
>has to be highly questionable given the incredibility of his claim to
>be a current RPF insider).
If you look anything like your passport photo, very few nations would
let you in.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Um, "Lady Chatterly" is a software engineered "read, understand and
reply" bot. Most likely a google test pilot." -- connor_a
Phil Scott
Arnaldo! I had been looking at these issues lately
regarding business in the city... absentee owners and self
interested and defensive burocrats running the action ...
call thier decisions 'synthetic' because they are not on the
issues...but on these bogus issues mentioned in the screw tape
letters,,, likened no less to HELL.
amazing. my take on the mess exactly. I will be arranging
other options.
Phil Scott