Any X-Sea Org Here?
Magoo
by www.xenu.net
There is a poster there who is posting some excellent
stories about Gold and the Scientology Executives, what
goes on there, etc.
Also, if you're just curious about some personal stories,
swing on by.
It's always amazing to read how DM beat up some of the people we knew as
"Executives" when I was in.
What a wimpy, no balls, coward of a leader.
I always knew he was creepy, but man, he's WAY
creepier than I ever dreamed.
--
Tory/Magoo~Dancing in the moonlight~
In Scientology for 30 years, out happily for 6 years!
X-Sea Org, X-Staff, X-OT 7, X-Class 4 auditor, X-OSA Volunteer after 20
years (Mostly in PR)
X-Top Secret OSA Int Internet Mafia, Until I realized what they were really
doing and soon after left C of S forever.
For thinking and speaking my mind, Scientology declared me
a "Suppressive Person" (SP 6 ^Cumulative Cluster :)
& Expelled me from The Church of $cientology (Whooo Hoooo:))
Free at LAST!
www.xenu.net (What Scientology Doesn't want you to know)
www.xenutv.com (Excellent videos)
www.torymagoo.org (My writings about Scientology from ARS)
www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm (Top Secret Int Mafia)
or Type in Scientology in Google
(Read, Look, Listen, Make up your ~own~Mind)
mag...@charter.net
Burbank, CA
(818) 841-3632
"They, who give up essential liberty
to purchase a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Magoo
"Good ol Yarns from the Base #1 and #2
by someone with the nick, BTs2Free
Good stuff!
Tory/Magoo~~
"Magoo" <mag...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:6FEGg.9$L5...@newsfe02.lga...
Povmec
For convenience, here is the link to the thread:
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=216452&highlight=#216452
Further the thread, here is an interesting post:
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=216833&highlight=#216833
Ray.
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
- on the surface this newsgroup seems to be a group critical of
scientology, but is in fact a place where phony critics, who just pose
as critics but are in fact working for scientology, work. The division
they are working for is OSA, office of special affairs of scientology,
a kind of KGB. They are trained to be able to say critical things about
their church and even about Hubbard, whom in fact they admire as their
god. Some of the phony critics are outside scientology, they are
publicly well known as being critics. This is not true in most cases.
They are in fact working for scientology, here to control the true
critics, and to prevent true critics from being heard by the public.
They are here to trap people who want to leave scientology. Therefore
they provide their contact addresses just to find out who wants to
leave. And then they work to bring them back to the "church". On this
newsgroup true critics are a very small group. Very, very small. Most
of what one reads here has been written by scientologists to create
confusion, to spread out lies, to intimidate and harass and to keep
people apart from this newsgroup, furthermore to keep them apart from
criticism of their church. Because this is what they hate the most and
fear the most: people who speak out against their "church" people above
whom they don't have control. As long as they feel that they have this
newsgroup under control, as long they feel that they have criticism
against their organization under control.
- don't contact anybody by eMail or phone, these are traps to find out
about you, so just don't
- don't follow any given link here, which leads outside of this
newsgroup to another website, because from there they will try to track
you back. To explain: my tiny-urls lead to threads of this newsgroup,
but you can find the threads as well by simply doing a google-groups
search with the title or parts of the title of the thread. Make sure to
always read the initial post. Be aware that Truth Seeker as well as me
have been forged by members of the cult.
- don't let them intimidate you into silence
- speak out against them, ask questions, participate in this newsgroup,
without fear, but do protect yourself and keep your anonymity safe.
.Lily.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
For further enlightenment, please read some of Truth Seeker's articles:
:: The Hitchhiker's Guide Through A.R.S. - Complete List Of Truth
Seeker's Articles About This Newsgroup ::
or try this link: <http://tinyurl.com/g8jm7>
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology :: (very important!) updated
version <http://tinyurl.com/8or5r>
Povmec wrote:
> Magoo wrote:<snip>
Magoo
"Povmec" <pov...@xenu-directory.net> wrote in message
news:1156260933....@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hey, thank you! Can you tell me how to do that?
((I know, 'what a stupid question'....well, I don't believe
in stupid questions: Just stupid people who think they
know it all, and have to put others down who want to learn))
If it's simple, please tell me: Right click it?
If it's longer..............skip it. :)
Thanks,
Tory/Magoo~~
Magoo
"the even harder to handle .Lily Firered." <lily_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:1156269306....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
I was trying to figure out what the Heck brought all of this on?
Then I realized it's because I asked, "Are there any X-Sea Org members
here". You are too much! BLAH BLAH BLAH...Fear, fear,fear.
Here's the truth here: You can keep your fear tactics. They don't really
work here. If they did, ARS would have fallen long ago.
Also, there are TONS Of Sea Org members who have left,
so that's not a sifting question any more, really, although you
*may* not know how many have left, nor shall I tell you.
Happiness to all who are free to speak their minds,
without fear, and no longer trapped in the Scio/Truman
show.
Tory/Magoo~~
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
Out_Of_The_Dark
Go away Lily spammer. The post says X Sea Org , not robotic OSA trolls
like you.
Readers, beware of the Lily posts. There is no truth seeker not his
Lily's Let loose in the field for the night.
Magoo
"Truthseeker" has only copied things that were written before here on the
Net, and embelleshed them with lies about many good critics. He claims and
you claim I work for OSA. Do you think people are totally insane? Watch my
CNN Interview on
www.xenutv.com or "OT 7's Speaking Freely" and tell me
I'm with OSA> If you say so, you prove either
a) You never watched either (a high priority)
or
b) You're REALLY socked into their game.
Either way, anyone else knows the truth: That statement
is totally false .............and you're both FOS.
I am happy to speak to anyone.
Can you speak to "Truthseeker" ahhhhhhhhhh NO.
I used to work with OSA and Bill Yaude, and all they did was
try to SLAM The critics, hoping IF they created enough lies,
people wouldn't read them. (which has TOTALLY failed, by the way)
Bill Yaude told me this, when I finally realized that's what they were
doing. I asked him, "Isn't it going to be obvious YOU (C of S/OSA) are
spamming ARS?"
He said: "No, because we're spamming many other newsgroups,
too, so they can't tell".
If you can't see them, or talk with them, who are they?
LOOK, READ, LISTEN< MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND>
WHY WON'T THEY EVER SAY THAT? BECAUSE THEY KNOW>>>>>>>>>>>>>IF PEOPLE READ
~~BOTH~~SIDES<
THEY'LL BE FREE FROM THE CHAINS OF SCIENTOLOGY.
Tory Christman
aka: Magoo!
(818) 841-3632
Burbank, CA
Give me a call.................or just read up on the Net.
You can't lose then :)
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
Tory,
Thanks! This is such good material from BTs2Free.
Thanks Tory for being a live person for people coming out to contact.
You and Arnie and Gerry, having your phone numbers out there, is a big
morale boost for some, it was for me!
(Your LAX escape tug of war incident that journalist Tony Ortega
brilliantly reported on, still to me shows how vital it is to get the
events we've lived to media. Good media gets the predicaments and
disgraces and irreligious immorality of Scientology.)
Thanks Tory! And thanks to everyone else who keeps the dialogue alive
and inspires new people to speak up.
Best, Chuck Beatty
ex Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
- on the surface this newsgroup seems to be a group critical of
scientology, but is in fact a place where phony critics, who just pose
as critics but are in fact working for scientology, work.
The division they are working for is OSA, office of special affairs of
scientology,
a kind of KGB. They are trained to be able to say critical things about
their church and even about Hubbard, whom in fact they admire as their
god.
Some of the phony critics are outside scientology, they are
publicly well known as being critics. This is not true in most cases.
They are in fact working for scientology, here to control the true
critics, and to prevent true critics from being heard by the public.
They are here, to trap people, who want to leave scientology. Therefore
they provide their contact addresses just to find out, who wants to
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
Scientology destroys every website, which is really critical to them.
That is the reason, why it is hard to provide any link.
My suggestion is always: if you are looking for help on behalf of cult
- matters you can find it on various places:
please ask an attorney,
contact the FBI or the next police station,
contact the mayors office,
the citizens-helpline of your government,
the consumer protection center,
contact a hospital,
a doctor,
a good friend (if you want to leave the cult a former friend of yours,
who is not in, or your family),
a (former?) teacher or your former "Seelsorger" ("carer of the soul" in
Austria we call
our priests so), the priest of your former church/temple or look at the
websites of the world religions,
if you are an atheist, you could try it here:
in Universities - join groups of philosophical matters or any other
matter which interests you (physics, maths, history, philo, economic,
law, language, in my country age for instance is absolutely no
obstacle, anyone can listen to the lectures, it is open to all at least
for listening) or in any other educational center which is recommended
or supported by government or other official offices.
They provide you with their helplines. Each of them can give further
assistance or at least direct you to the right places for your problem
or your questions.
.Lily.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered. wrote:
Dear Lily,
I've talked to media, I've talked to scholars, both are interested in
Scientology.
If you truly believe that there are deep layers of OSA operatives
operating here on ARS and Clambake, I invite you to connect to Tony
Ortega himself, who did the brilliant article on Tory, I bet would be
glad to interview you and do your story about this behind the scenes
OSA world of operatives.
Tony gets the OSA operative scene, he spent hours interviewing Tory.
You want some attention, I'll introduce you to Tony, and you can take
it from there.
There are some ex OSA staff, Patty P, Frank Oliver, Dan Garvin, who
post with their names.
They are real, I speak and email with them occassionally.
Have you spoke to Frank, Dan or Patty?
They are real people.
If you want to legitimize your claims, I suggest you take the steps
like contact media who are savy to Scn's OSA operations, and let's
start getting out the OSA operatives story all out into the real open,
like in good journalistic articles.
Look up Tory's article by Tony Ortega, which is one of the all time
best articles I've read.
Whatever you really are, I'll ask Tony if it's okay to send you his
email address, and you can email him, or look him up. He's out of West
Palm Beach in Florida, he's editor now, and still interested in
stories.
If you are a Bill Yaude buddy, call me too. Tony might be interested
to interview the next "Tory" willing to make their way out of the OSA
network of operatives.
Chuck Beatty
412-260-1170
ex lifetime staffer bureaucrat in the Scientology movement
(1975-2003)
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
I think your attempt to discredit me as being a scientologist will fail
this time, as always, for the very simple reason, that you lie and I am
honest.
You see, the first and most important lesson a liar has to learn, is to
believe his own lies.
Go ahead Chuck. Try that.
And then you can come back publishing your lies. Afterwards you at
least would probably no longer sound so ridiculous.
Nevertheless I'll take the time to answer in some details, just because
your attempt somehow shows your efforts and how hard you tried. That
deserves an answer.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com wrote:
<snip due to brevity>
>
> Dear Lily,
>
> I've talked to media, I've talked to scholars, both are interested in
> Scientology.
This sentence and its aim really makes me think about it. Why did you
say that? Do you want here to give the reader who probably would like
to follow one of my advices and go to a University or another official
education office, that they should fear to meet scientology-friendly
people there or even scientologists? Do you want to put that kind of
fear into the minds of the readers? Well, I can calm them down - they
will have the very best chances to spot those people out and then avoid
the lessons of these or avoid to contact them in any way.
BTW I do not think that very much scientologists managed to make a
career in official fields. Although I would warn the people to join
certain universities where so called "critics" who post here as well,
lecture. But there is no reason to fear that on every step they make
outside their church they will face the one or the other scientologist.
Even if so - who would care?
I trust, I really really trust in the scientologists who want to open
their minds a bit and want to look, what is going on outside their
"church" all by themselves. They have shown a lot of strength right now
already - they found their way to here. They are couraged and they are
cautious. Nothing will happen to them, not, if they do not allow the
church to control them completely furthermore, not, if they absolutely
want "A Room For Their Own", finally. If they want that, they will get
that.
No. If they want that, they already got that.
That Room In Their Own.
>
> If you truly believe that there are deep layers of OSA operatives
> operating here on ARS and Clambake, I invite you to connect to Tony
> Ortega himself, who did the brilliant article on Tory, I bet would be
> glad to interview you and do your story about this behind the scenes
> OSA world of operatives.
Tell him, he can keep dreaming.
>
> Tony gets the OSA operative scene, he spent hours interviewing Tory.
Tell him, he can keep spending years interviewing Tory.
>
> You want some attention, I'll introduce you to Tony, and you can take
> it from there.
Hu? I can take what from where?
>
> There are some ex OSA staff, Patty P, Frank Oliver, Dan Garvin, who
> post with their names.
>
> They are real, I speak and email with them occassionally.
I am real too. That is the reason, why nobody from here can speak and
email with me ever.
>
> Have you spoke to Frank, Dan or Patty?
No. Thank you. But no.
>
> They are real people.
I am real too.
>
> If you want to legitimize your claims, I suggest you take the steps
> like contact media who are savy to Scn's OSA operations, and let's
> start getting out the OSA operatives story all out into the real open,
> like in good journalistic articles.
Hu? What exactly do you mean here?
>
> Look up Tory's article by Tony Ortega, which is one of the all time
> best articles I've read.
>
> Whatever you really are, I'll ask Tony if it's okay to send you his
> email address, and you can email him, or look him up. He's out of West
> Palm Beach in Florida, he's editor now, and still interested in
> stories.
Keep dreaming.
>
> If you are a Bill Yaude buddy, call me too.
Lol! I am Truth Seeker's. No one else's.
> Tony might be interested
> to interview the next "Tory" willing to make their way out of the OSA
> network of operatives.
So, I would be in any case not interesting at all for him, since I
never was in scientology, as you know, nor did I do any course not even
the personality test.
.Lily.
>
> Chuck Beatty
<snip phone number since I warn people to call anybody who provides
his/her number/name/address on this newsgroup>
Reader, lurker, couraged scientologist reading this - this is 4 U:
MOVE.
No matter how.
No matter where.
No matter why.
No matter with whom.
LAUGH.
CRY.
SHOUT.
LIKE.
ENJOY.
All by yourself.
MOVE.
blackdove
> I am real too. That is the reason, why nobody from here can speak and
> email with me ever.
>
Darlin', that don't make a lick of sense.
-blackdove
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
blackdove wrote:
> the even harder to handle .Lily Firered. wrote:
> <snip>
> > I am real too. That is the reason, why nobody from here can speak and
> > email with me ever.
> >
That, blackdove, means:
I am a real critic, not a phony one like most of the other so called
"critics" here on this newsgroup. Therefore I have to pay attention to
keep my identity for myself. That is the reason, why I never will
contact anybody from this newsgroup.
Got it, blackdove?
.Lily.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
For further enlightenment, please read some of Truth Seeker's articles:
:: The Hitchhiker's Guide Through A.R.S. - Complete List Of Truth
Seeker's Articles About This Newsgroup ::
or try this link: <http://tinyurl.com/g8jm7>
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology :: (very important!) updated
version <http://tinyurl.com/8or5r>
>
blackdove
It also means you have zero credibility as a "critic" and can't be
trusted. Meanwhile, people leaving Scientology have called Tory to let
her know they are leaving and gotten a friendly, REAL person to talk to
who knows exactly what they went through, who's been documented on TV
as a visible critic. Or Chuck Beatty, who can network ex-Sea Org
folks. You post worthless spam or pass off abstract common sense as
highly valuable advice. Your charade is very thin, Lily, but the nice
thing is that should you ever choose to give it up, there are some nice
folks on the outside of Scientology who are happy to forgive and help
you. You could take some classes at a junior / community college, get
an associate's degree... start to learn some valuable NON-SCIENTOLOGY
skills ... find out how to really save the planet... step one would be
not shilling for this worthless cult anymore by pretending very BADLY
to be the only trustworthy critic.
-blackdove
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
I have nothing to do with scientology, except that I am a critic, as
you know very well. I have never entered a "church", done a "seminar"
or "course", not even read a whole book from Hubbard, after having read
some pages from his "Dianetics" book on amazon. I have yet read lots of
his writings here on ars because you and your fellow "church" members
post it over and over again.
Magoo is # 1 on posting Hubbard's writings.
Wait - what does that tell us?
.Lily.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered. wrote:
> Again, blackdove/Magoo, again:
>
> I have nothing to do with scientology, except that I am a critic, as
> you know very well. I have never entered a "church", done a "seminar"
> or "course", not even read a whole book from Hubbard, after having read
> some pages from his "Dianetics" book on amazon. I have yet read lots of
> his writings here on ars because you and your fellow "church" members
> post it over and over again.
>
> Magoo is # 1 on posting Hubbard's writings.
>
> Wait - what does that tell us?
>
> .Lily.
>
snip
Dear Lily,
Well, my thoughts are that you are a well intentioned man or woman
living in Austria, which might explain your repeating that you are NOT
a Scientologist nor have anything to do with Scientology, because over
there the normal middle class person's fear of being in ANY way
associated with Scientology is very intense.
I appreciate, and ex Sea Org members who have read your and
Truthseeker's posts, who commented to me, appreciate only ONE aspect of
your and Truthseeker's posts, which is where you recommend people go to
the FBI, go to police, and all the other list of regular authorities.
I thank you for reminding people of doing that simple thing! That IS
the right thing.
I myself was in the Happy Valley RPF (rehabilitation project force,
which is the Sea Org's redemption program to supposedly redeem fallen
Sea Org members from the top ranks of the Sea Org), and there were long
periods of time where daily I contemplated going to the police, and
asking for help.
So I can tell you, encouraging the Sea Org members who feel trapped,
who are physcially restrained, who feel they are being held against
their will, I agree with you completely, and I wish the message could
somehow be gotten to them.
It IS okay for them to ask for help from the police, if they feel
trapped and restrained from leaving.
It is truly one of the most uncomfortable feelings, and I felt it, for
months, I was contemplating escaping ("blowing" is the slang word in
Scientology).
But I never decided fully to blow because I felt that it was ridiculous
and dishonorable.
I felt that instead the church should revise and speed up the leaving
procedures.
I tried leaving the first time, Jan 1997 until August 1997, I failed,
and decided to stay.
I was convinced to stay, and I regret that I allowed myself to be
convinced to stay for an additional 5 and 1/2 years. (I was almost 7
years on the RPF.)
In my case, in Jan 1997 I was on the RPF, I told my fellow members on
the RPF that I wished to leave the Sea Org. That resulted in a 7 month
procedure that I saw I was NOT close to completing even after 7 months.
That of course is ridiculous and extreme.
So it was during this frustrating period of 7 months while I was going
through the procedures for leaving the church, that I then began
contemplating escaping, and pushing that idea aside, then I
contemplated simply openly walking to the security guard who attended
the RPF camp, and informing that person that I wished to leave, and
just openly leave, but I knew the results of openly leaving would
result in my physical restraints most likely, and that a physical
struggle I contemplated would then escalate into a fight and then
escalate to me requesting help from the police.
So, your encouragement for people to go to the police, for the people
who were in situations in the Sea Org (the lifetime staffer bureaucrats
who administer the upper structure of the church of Scientology) is
relevant.
Let me explain details about life for the people who would appreciate
your and Truthseeker's message, the part of the message you spread
which is valuable I feel.
It is during the frustrating predicaments and moments when Sea Org
members WISH to leave, and are prevented, are slowed down by the
bureaucratic rules, it is THERE that the people wishing to leave SHOULD
have access to police, so they can complain, and get outside help to
get OUT.
I had been in the Sea Org for 27 years, from 1975 until March 2003, and
in Feb and Mar 2003, while I was waiting for my final final
bureaucratic authorization to leave the Sea Org, I proclaimed I was
going to the public library, and I did so.
I mention going to the library, even while I was in the RPF because RPF
members are NOT allowed to do such things. I was allowed, simply
because I threatened worse things. I threatened going to the LA Times
newspaper and I threatened seeking a lawyer because I knew it was NOT
correct that the procedures for leaving the Sea Org should take that
long (I had been waiting over a years, from Dec 2001 until Dec 2002 my
second attempt and final attempt to "standardly" leave the Sea Org).
At one of the LA public library branches, where I went daily, with a
person assigned to accompany me so I didn't escape (they wouldn't have
restrained me physcially, they just were with me and would have
reported back to the RPF and back to the church security guards had I
run off, but I didn't intend to run away since I'd waited months and
months through the procedures, so planned rather to complete the
procedures), anyways at the library I looked on the internet, first for
job information.
Then I started looking at the sites on L. Ron Hubbard, "Ron the War
Hero" or something like that. Critical sites. Then I saw Arnie
Lerma's site. I dared not look too much at these sites, I thought I
will have time later to look at all these sites.
It would have been a chance in a million if I would have found the
messages you or Truthseeker post here, which is the point of me saying
all the above.
I WOULD have appreciated YOUR post above, only the part of your post
where you strongly encourage people to go to the FBI and authorities.
That part of your message truly is good.
However you promote that message, I applaud you for it.
Thank you for that part of your postings.
I believe, from your answers, that you are a well intentioned Austrian
middle class person, who like you say, has nothing to do with
Scientology, and who only wishes somehow to get the message of common
sense, telling those members, like I WAS, like I described above, and I
can tell you, if you were in Los Angeles, on a street corner, and you
politely and in a friendly helpful way carried a sign or handed me a
leaflet with a friendly easily understood leaflet of information on my
rights to seek police or other help, in escaping from the restraints of
being in the RPF, and if you looked like a decent and kind and
understanding person, and you looked like someone who understands
compassionately the predicaments of the people who are at times in the
Sea Org in these frustrating predicaments, THEN I would have gladly
stopped, taken a leaflet from you, and I would have read it, and I
might have just walked out, called the police and asked for help.
So Lily, thankyou if your intent was anything aligning with helping the
people who are in the predicaments.
ARS is an advanced critics site. Some people posting here have been
doing battle with Scn for over a decade.
The people who really need your advice, were ME! About 3 and 1/2 years
ago, like I said, had I seen looking like a deceont compassionate,
smart, understanding and cheerful face on a street corner near the RPF
facilities in Los Angeles, and you handed me a 1 page leaflet with a
simply written message saying I had a right to go to the police if I
felt I was being restrained against my will, or that gave me a phone
number for outside advice how to leave the Sea Org more quickly, THEN I
would have wished to give you a big hug.
There are a few people inside, who would appreciate that part of your
post above, the part that encourages people to seek help from society's
institutions that are set up to help people who are in abusive
situations.
Not all the Sea Org members find themselves at all times in the extreme
abusive situations. Mostly the abusive predicaments that frustrate Sea
Org members come when the Sea Org members asks to leave the Sea Org,
and the Sea Org and Scientology rules act as a restraining barrier from
letting the person leave within a reasonable amount of time. These are
the times I would have liked to have had someone like you handing me
the message you post on the internet.
Glad you respond quickly. Thanks for your efforts. The people you
wish to reach, I can tell you where they sit, at this minute. There
are always a small group of RPF members who are asking to "route out"
(route out is the name of the procedure for leaving the Sea Org,
leaving their lifetime commitment to being in the Sea Org). It is
amongst those people who are walking around the hallways which the RPF
members are allowed to walk in, in the big blue building in LA. RPFers
wishing to leave are seperated most of the time from all staff and the
rest of the RPFers. The RPFers who are wishing to leave, the ones who
might be frustrated with the procedures for leaving, like I was, would
be the ones you might want to get your message to.
If you or others want to discuss how to get your important advice to
those people who need to have the support and advice, that would be a
good thing.
Depending on the day to day treatment of the people who wish to leave,
those are the people most needing your message.
There are at all times others in the Sea Org, who suddenly "blow"
(escape without authorization, without going through the Sea Org
procedures for leaving, called "routing out"), and those people also
might benefit from your message.
I suggest you ignore the OSA people working here, and repeat the most
valuable part of your message, the part about going to authorities, and
also I think you should also connect with some of us who are public,
who are willing to network the people coming out to their old friends.
That's what I do.
There are OSA people, volunteers, working on ARS and other sites.
Sure, and us ex members know who the actual Sea Org people are, Gloria
Idda, and others like Lynn Farney, those are two Office of Special
Affairs staff right there at the HGB building, which I worked in, on
the same floor where my ex wife works today still, Gloria and Lynn will
read my and your conversation later today or this week sometime.
I being a former member, all my posts on the internet go into a file,
so if they choose to ever take action against me, they have all my
public writings, etc., etc.
Realize that the people who worked for the church, for decades, me it
was 27 years (my final 6-7 years I spent in the RPF groups), many of us
appreciate the small and large parts of the critical internet sites and
chat groups for the good information amongst all the other chatter.
The good part of your and Truthseeker's messages are buried though, and
I suggest if you want to help get the good message ("go to
authorities") across, that you simplify to it.
I coming out, was bewildered by all the layers of conversation on ARS,
when I came out.
It has taken me a year, I've met and talked on the phone with dozens of
the main critics posting.
It is only after almost 2 years now, of talking and interacting with
the dozens of people, do I understand better.
It is confusing, but if you really want to meet the people, I see your
circumstances are that you are in Austria, fine, calling me is not an
option, but I am free to hear from anyone, at anytime, by email, by
phone.
I am known by thousands of Scientologists, because I interacted with
thousands during my years working with them.
I'll talk to any of them, and give advice if they ask, or hear their
stories, or just say hello.
The people who get to this level of internet surfing, looking on ARS,
are pretty advanced.
Clambake is easier, and you will notice that the latest people going
public, go to Clambake first, simply because it is easier to get onto
ARS and post and chat there.
The people you wish to reach with your positive advice to go to
authorities, those people are behind the walls in the RPF groups, and
are the Sea Org members who won't unfortunately hear your messages.
Only exceptions, like me, where I insisted on going to the library,
only I had a small chance of hearing your message, but when I went to
the library and got on the internet I had NOT figured out how to get
onto ARS.
Helping get a leaflet listing people's rights to go to authorities for
any violations like of freedom to leave the church and freedom NOT to
be under "watch" or restraints, or freedom NOT to have to suffer
through months and months of the Sea Org leaving procedures, THAT would
be a positive good thing. It is psychologically demeaning to have to
withstand the months and months of leaving procedures. I did it twice,
and luckily I was successful my second attempt. I could have "blown",
but I wanted instead for the church to revise the procedures, and make
them shorter. Which in most cases I heard after I left, it was speeded
up, which I was happy to hear.
The best part of your message, again, is the fact that you call on
people to go to society's outside existing institutions for assistance.
I totally agree, because Scientology isolates itself from society's
institutions, and the abuses in Scientology's staff hierarchies need at
times outside intervention.
Best, Chuck Beatty
Pittsburgh, USA
412-260-1170
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
I only have 2 main questions:
1: when did you go to the FBI and charge scientology for the wrongs
they did to you and for those they did to others which you have
witnessed?
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com wrote:
> the even harder to handle .Lily Firered. wrote:
<snip>
>
> I appreciate, and ex Sea Org members who have read your and
> Truthseeker's posts, who commented to me, appreciate only ONE aspect of
> your and Truthseeker's posts, which is where you recommend people go to
> the FBI, go to police, and all the other list of regular authorities.
>
> I thank you for reminding people of doing that simple thing! That IS
> the right thing.
>
> I myself was in the Happy Valley RPF (rehabilitation project force,
> which is the Sea Org's redemption program to supposedly redeem fallen
> Sea Org members from the top ranks of the Sea Org), and there were long
> periods of time where daily I contemplated going to the police, and
> asking for help.
<snip>
And when did you finally go to the FBI, Chuck? When was that? You claim
that you have left scientology, but if that really would be true and
since you agree with me that people who have been abused by scientology
should go to the FBI - when did you go to the FBI and charge
scientology?
When did you charge scientology for that? You are a witness, a victim,
who can tell about what really is going on. But you only tell us here,
that you talk with journalists and that you are waiting for calls from
people who want to leave.
Another question, Chuck: should one of those people call you - what are
you recommending her or him? And why don't you give any other advise
here on this newsgroup, not a single one, than the people who want to
leave should call you or Tory?
<snip>
> and if you looked like a decent and kind and
> understanding person, and you looked like someone who understands
> compassionately the predicaments of the people who are at times in the
> Sea Org in these frustrating predicaments, THEN I would have gladly
> stopped, taken a leaflet from you, and I would have read it, and I
> might have just walked out, called the police and asked for help.
>
> So Lily, thankyou if your intent was anything aligning with helping the
> people who are in the predicaments.
>
> ARS is an advanced critics site. Some people posting here have been
> doing battle with Scn for over a decade.
>
> The people who really need your advice, were ME! About 3 and 1/2 years
> ago, like I said, had I seen looking like a deceont compassionate,
> smart, understanding and cheerful face on a street corner near the RPF
> facilities in Los Angeles, and you handed me a 1 page leaflet with a
> simply written message saying I had a right to go to the police if I
> felt I was being restrained against my will, or that gave me a phone
> number for outside advice how to leave the Sea Org more quickly, THEN I
> would have wished to give you a big hug.
>
1.ly: why don't you go yourself to there and give out the leaflets by
yourself?
2.ly: why do you think, that I will fall for your trap and not see that
you in fact do not want to see me giving out leaflets (to people whom I
do not know and about whom I do not know anything) but you want me to
stop posting here on ars and you want me to do this what probably is
called a picket, just to find out who I am. I guess you dream, that I
now organise a picket and post about the fact here on ars, don't you?
Well, as I said to you before: keep dreamin'.
<snip>
> Clambake is easier, and you will notice that the latest people going
> public, go to Clambake first, simply because it is easier to get onto
> ARS and post and chat there.
On Clambake they cracked me there. So Clambake in fact is easier, as
you say. But only for OSA to crack true critics like myself.
<snip>
>
> Best, Chuck Beatty
> Pittsburgh, USA
Dear people, readers, lurkers, scientologists who managed to come here:
do not let postings like those from Chuck intimidate and discourage
you. Please, hold on, hold on, hold on you are on such a good way.
I know about that kind of intimidation and fear, I felt that as well
and the scientologists on this newsgroup were responsible for it. I
overcame, but I know how hard that is.
What you feel (the fear) is very normal. Everybody in your situation
would feel it. The question is, whether you allow that feeling to
control your actions, because that is the kind of control scientology
uses against you.
Nothing will happen, if you go to the police, yet if you by yourself
decide to wait another week or so, that is ok. As well, if you decide
to stay in scientology, because you feel that is the best place on
earth for you. As long as you do nobody any harm, n o b o d y - and
that includes y o u as well - it has to be accepted. But if you stay
due to intimidation and fear, do not forget about me and my postings.
Know, that I went through a similar time, although I even am not a
scientologist and never was, but that intimidation and "fair game"
worked! So I can understand you, but I also know, that it is possible
to overcome it, to bring it under your own control, to fight it and to
win against it.
Know that as well - i t i s p o s s i b l e. And that says a person,
who is for sure not as half as strong as you are! - .Lily.
Out_Of_The_Dark
Nice Try, Lily. Perhaps Chuck was being too kind and reasoning with
you, Lily.
You remind me of a less implanted verson of Barbara Schwarz. I feel
sorry for what they did to her, but you seem to enjoy being absued by
the cult.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered. wrote:
> Nice attempt, Chuck.
>
> I only have 2 main questions:
>
> 1: when did you go to the FBI and charge scientology for the wrongs
> they did to you and for those they did to others which you have
> witnessed?
>
Because Clark Morton, the person who was my twin on the Int RPF, when
Clark was pressing a copy of the OEC green volume open to the page that
he was also chanting at me: "Stop committing suppressive acts.." this
man, Clark I also respected. And even though I entirely thought it
very likely that Clark would love to beat the shit out of me at that
moment had I gotten up and tried to walk out of that small room that I
was basically pinned into a chair with Clark and Mark Treasure being
two larger far stronger men than I, I had only the options of physical
violence to react to their efforts for bringing me into that small "MAA
office" at the Happy Valley Int RPF space, which is one of the small
buildings possibly visible in the German TV and other TV shows that
showed the RPF site form the air, I was in that little office, with two
men I'd known and respected for over a decade of working off and on
with them. Mark had audited me for probably 50 hours on my Grade 0
back in the 80's and I knew Clark from all the way back in 1983, and
knew he fundamentally is a good person.
In the Sea Organization there is a comraderie, and myself I was unable
to hold the behaior against Clark or Mark, and Mark never laid a hand
on me nor threatened me. Only Clark implied he would have like to
retaliate against me,and only Clark actually sat and effectively pinned
me in my chair and pressed the OEC volume into my chest while chanting
"Stop committing suppressive acts..." over and over for minutes, while
I sat in seething resigned bewildered silence at this atrocity of human
enforced thought that I truly wished to not agree to.
Psychologically I had already walked deep into the Scientology upper
ranks staff member mentality, I knew that landscape mentally, and I
adapted to it and could rationalize remaining in that landscape of
thought that allows one to consider that being in the RPF, trying to
redeem oneself and return to supporting all the efforts and mindset of
how people consider at the top ranks of the Sea Org they consider they
are doing good in the world.
So rather than walk out, rather than subject myself to my imagined
physcial restraints I would have faced, rather than submit to possibly
Clark physcially bullying me further or beating me up, etc, etc., I
chose the long long slow route of cooperating and slowly, slowly taking
the less upsetting route of cooperating, going on with the RPF for a
few more years, and then later, when the same doubts surfaced about the
whole activity, I then chose later, some 5 and 1/2 years later, finally
to exit completely out of the Sea Org.
When others encouraged me to go to the police or FBI, and Professor
Kent suggested it, I couldn't bring myself to do it. I asked others
who received worse than me if they would go, and they declined.
If you understand why people decline to turn in their former friends or
co-workers or family for abuse they received from their former friends
or co-workers or family, then it is the same reasons.
snip
> <snip>
>
> And when did you finally go to the FBI, Chuck? When was that? You claim
> that you have left scientology, but if that really would be true and
> since you agree with me that people who have been abused by scientology
> should go to the FBI - when did you go to the FBI and charge
> scientology?
>
You may not have read my site, read it, please, at your leisure. It
chronicles lots of my experiences, and I answer lots of the same
questions you ask.
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
You seem to wish to encourage people coming out or people inside to do
the right thing, but your method of coaxing people to go to authorities
would better have worked with me, as I detailed in my answer to you.
> When did you charge scientology for that? You are a witness, a victim,
> who can tell about what really is going on. But you only tell us here,
> that you talk with journalists and that you are waiting for calls from
> people who want to leave.
>
Read my site, surf my posts, if you wish. Inform yourself further.
> Another question, Chuck: should one of those people call you - what are
> you recommending her or him?
Last October, out of the blue, I got such a call. I immediately,
within 24 hours, called myself the Riverside County Sheriff's Dept and
told what I'd heard about David Miscavige's petty recent years
violence, and asked what the Sheriff's Dept required.
I posted last October what the Sherrif's Dept told me, which was that
the person's who wished to complain, would best come in person to the
Riverside County's Sheriff Dept to report a complaint. The
complainer's would be interviewed,
In the ARS chat regarding this, another person said that anyone freshly
battered should first go to emergency medical and get any wounds looked
at, and thus be recorded for evidence later, if charges are brought
against anyone for that alleged battery or whatever the legal correct
charge is.
I posted the content of the conversations I had with the two Riverside
County Sheriff's Dept officers that I talked to, which were two
separate ladies. I didn't speak for myself, I simply described the
incident I was told about, and the officers told me what that person
should do.
I then called the person who received the petty violence and told them
what the police requested. The person declined.
What do you suggest now?
> And why don't you give any other advise
> here on this newsgroup, not a single one, than the people who want to
> leave should call you or Tory?
>
I don't think people in the movement read this. But I have told the
OSA people who have to monitor this site, that for sure there are
people in LA and elsewhere who will help them make the transition back
to normal life, if they need help.
I've discussed all the details many times in the past.
The nature of how these chat sites are, I see your point is that each
time someone posts, or that the only purpose of anyone posting be the
most significant issue, like advice to people wanting to leave.
Well fine, I assume people who are up to this level of reading ARS, who
by the way people routinely contact me, several new people per month,
they say they've read my and other ex Sea Org member's posts and chats,
sometimes for months.
People get bored, they get on with their lives, they don't want to take
the time, etc., etc.
That is why, if you know my themes of posting, I go for the historicial
angle, and just wish people to write up their histories.
People recently battered or abused, of course, whoever has the best
tips on how to get those people to authorities to report the abuses,
for sure, I agree with any good tips on doing that!
> <snip>
> > and if you looked like a decent and kind and
> > understanding person, and you looked like someone who understands
> > compassionately the predicaments of the people who are at times in the
> > Sea Org in these frustrating predicaments, THEN I would have gladly
> > stopped, taken a leaflet from you, and I would have read it, and I
> > might have just walked out, called the police and asked for help.
> >
> > So Lily, thankyou if your intent was anything aligning with helping the
> > people who are in the predicaments.
> >
> > ARS is an advanced critics site. Some people posting here have been
> > doing battle with Scn for over a decade.
> >
> > The people who really need your advice, were ME! About 3 and 1/2 years
> > ago, like I said, had I seen looking like a deceont compassionate,
> > smart, understanding and cheerful face on a street corner near the RPF
> > facilities in Los Angeles, and you handed me a 1 page leaflet with a
> > simply written message saying I had a right to go to the police if I
> > felt I was being restrained against my will, or that gave me a phone
> > number for outside advice how to leave the Sea Org more quickly, THEN I
> > would have wished to give you a big hug.
> >
>
> 1.ly: why don't you go yourself to there and give out the leaflets by
> yourself?
I live in Pittsburgh. I moved out of LA in June 2004 after living in a
Scientology rooming house from March 29,2003 until Jun 2004, and I had
NO idea of the whole community of ex Sea Org people who were basically
in the anti Scientology movement so to speak.
I felt the need to find a "safe landing zone" from which to speak out.
I thus chose my sister, here in Pittsburgh, where I've lived for 2
years now. I work for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette newspaper, another
conscous choice on my part, since I felt working with intelligent media
people would also serve me if Scientology retaliated, like it did in
some minor ways, against me.
People wishing to go public and speak out, it is sort of human, to
discuss and talk about one's life, whatever.
Going to authorities, that seemed scary, seemed like at that point it
all turns legal and my observation is that legal muzzling legal
agreements to settle and be silent, are NOT where I want to go in life.
That's minor though, I think the real reason I didn't go to the police
or lawyers right away, is because the church backed off, in 2002,
December, when I threatened to walk out and go to the media and get a
lawyer in December 2002. They treated me with kid gloves for the next
3 months, and I finally was released in March 29, 2003.
I took advantage of the well intentioned help they offered to place me
at a job I wished to do, I worked as the sort of janitor, delivery
person, go-for, purchaser for a business run by a very nice pleasant
former Gold staff member there in LA area near the Burbank airport.
I am a good natured person, so really have no difficulty putting up
with the Sea Org stuff in general.
I've extensively written and I suppose I cannot expect you to have
looked over my hours and hours of writings at my site.
> 2.ly: why do you think, that I will fall for your trap
What trap? Read my site. Do you think I am OSA? Do you trust anyone
who is an ex member? I think if you trust few people, I mean do you
think Tory is well intentioned?
I've spoken to her, and I know ex GO and ex OSA people who are clearly
NOT siding with the church, I think if you are not up to understanding
enough about us ex members, you might have to spend a little time, so
that your judgement about who is "bad" and who is "OSA" operatives, I
mean, it is an education, and of course, like even some admit, the
people who did great critics work sometimes "turn" back and forward the
OSA tactics and strategies, unfortunately, I think when that is done,
it is important to fully discuss all the details, and get it all laid
out.
It is a matter of trust, and I guess you once you get to know the
people and know the little indicators that cause people to doubt one
another, and trust one another, in this world of "ex's", you might
trust more people who do deserve to be trusted.
>and not see that
> you in fact do not want to see me giving out leaflets (to people whom I
> do not know and about whom I do not know anything) but you want me to
> stop posting here on ars and you want me to do this what probably is
> called a picket, just to find out who I am.
No. Not at all. I see you as someone, posting from Austria, correct,
and you wish to encourage people who are under abusive conditions to do
the obvious most correct thing which is go to authorities.
Bravo, repeat that message over and over.
>I guess you dream, that I now organise a picket and post
>about the fact here on ars, don't you?
Not at all. I see you don't grasp the Scientology movement people, and
their predicaments, and I only was attempting to tell you that out of
your and Truthseeker's communications, there is only a few things I
find good.
And the most important is your saying to go to authorities!
I will leave it at that, and as you absorb more details about the lives
and predicaments and the little twists and turns in events over the
years, the psychological pressures that keep people from even posting,
their own personal limitations in accurately expressing themselves to
their own satisfaction, because I believe people's inability to even
converse or write their feelings accurately is one of life's most
unfortunate barriers, and that barrier is due to no one's fault in
particular.
Writing what one feels and describing the events in one's life that one
wishes to even discuss, it really goes back to how literate and skilled
one is or wishes to become to express one's thoughts.
Otherwise the history and thoughts of the people in the Scientology
movement lay only in people's minds.
I wish to encourage all to speak however imperfectly or in any way they
wish, in whatever way they wish.
Abused people, for sure, I reccommend going to police and outside
authorities.
> Well, as I said to you before: keep dreamin'.
>
Read my site, if you want, see how far off your imagined thoughts are
about me.
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
Or if you have tried to read some of what thoughts, then given up,
fine, I guess we have not much further to exchange.
I agree with you on the major issue I said above about 5 times now.
That's the extent of it for now.
> <snip>
>
> > Clambake is easier, and you will notice that the latest people going
> > public, go to Clambake first, simply because it is easier to get onto
> > ARS and post and chat there.
>
> On Clambake they cracked me there. So Clambake in fact is easier, as
> you say. But only for OSA to crack true critics like myself.
>
Tell people over and over what you think is important.
People will figure it out eventually.
You heard my opinion above.
> <snip>
> >
> > Best, Chuck Beatty
> > Pittsburgh, USA
>
>
> Dear people, readers, lurkers, scientologists who managed to come here:
>
> do not let postings like those from Chuck intimidate and discourage
> you. Please, hold on, hold on, hold on you are on such a good way.
>
Hmm, not sure how you group with intimidation and fear. What made you
group me such wise?
>
> I know about that kind of intimidation and fear, I felt that as well
> and the scientologists on this newsgroup were responsible for it. I
> overcame, but I know how hard that is.
>
The people recently slapped and punched by David Miscavige, anyone
should call the Riverside Country Sheriff's Dept and ask their advice.
And if you wish to hook up with old Sea Org friends, many ex Int staff,
get onto the
XSO chat site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
People with abuses to report, should report to police, and you will be
directed from there if police are not the correct persons to complain
to.
> What you feel (the fear) is very normal. Everybody in your situation
> would feel it. The question is, whether you allow that feeling to
> control your actions, because that is the kind of control scientology
> uses against you.
>
> Nothing will happen, if you go to the police, yet if you by yourself
> decide to wait another week or so, that is ok. As well, if you decide
> to stay in scientology, because you feel that is the best place on
> earth for you. As long as you do nobody any harm, n o b o d y - and
> that includes y o u as well - it has to be accepted. But if you stay
> due to intimidation and fear, do not forget about me and my postings.
> Know, that I went through a similar time, although I even am not a
> scientologist and never was, but that intimidation and "fair game"
> worked! So I can understand you, but I also know, that it is possible
> to overcome it, to bring it under your own control, to fight it and to
> win against it.
>
> Know that as well - i t i s p o s s i b l e. And that says a person,
> who is for sure not as half as strong as you are! - .Lily.
Thanks.
Chuck Beatty
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Povmec
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered. wrote:
> Dear people, readers, lurkers, scientologists who managed to come here:
>
> do not let postings like those from Chuck intimidate and discourage
> you. Please, hold on, hold on, hold on you are on such a good way.
Dear readers, Chuck Beatty in the news:
>From the outside [of Scientology], looking in:
[http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm ]
«Life away from Scientology is especially difficult for those in need
of some sort of mental health services, Beatty said. Because
Scientology teaches that psychiatry is evil, some who have broken away
are reluctant to seek such help.
He's still adjusting to his new life, saying that each day he
recognizes more and more that the church was not a healthy thing.
He's now left with a dull ache of regret -- had he stayed out of the
church, he said, he might have become involved in politics or law.
"I lived inside a religious movement for 27 years," he said. "It's a
strange jump to come back to the real world. But I feel like I'm on the
right side now."»
In reality, Lily doesn't want you to read materials offered on the
internet by people who believe that the wrongs and crimes committed by
the Church of Scientology must be exposed in order to show the real
face Scientology (these wrongs and crimes are a direct results of many
corrupt written policies by the founder L. Ron Hubbard.)
People who are *really* critical of Scientology are easy to spot: they
will never try to discourage you from reading anything, as opposed to
Lily. Think about it.
www.xenu.net is a good place to start.
Ray.
the even harder to handle .Lily Firered.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com wrote:
> the even harder to handle .Lily Firered. wrote:
> > Nice attempt, Chuck.
> >
> > I only have 2 main questions:
> >
> > 1: when did you go to the FBI and charge scientology for the wrongs
> > they did to you and for those they did to others which you have
> > witnessed?
> >
>
>
> Because Clark Morton, the person who was my twin on the Int RPF,
You fail to answer my question already with the first word.
My question was, and I would like you to answer it clearly:
"When did you, Chuck Beatty, go to the FBI and charge scientology for
their crimes?"
Oh, I see. The answer is: "Never."
<snip>
>
> > Another question, Chuck: should one of those people call you - what are
> > you recommending her or him?
>
> Last October, out of the blue, I got such a call. I immediately,
> within 24 hours, called myself the Riverside County Sheriff's Dept and
> told what I'd heard about David Miscavige's petty recent years
> violence, and asked what the Sheriff's Dept required.
You phoned to the authorities on behalf of a person who called you?
Interesting. You brought her fate under your control.
Let us see what came out of that. What did this intervention of yours
mean for the one who was looking for your advice, a person who wanted
to leave scientology (correct me if I am wrong) and called you for
help, which you offer everywhere in media and internet.
Let us see, what came out of that.
>
> I posted last October what the Sherrif's Dept told me, which was that
> the person's who wished to complain, would best come in person to the
> Riverside County's Sheriff Dept to report a complaint. The
> complainer's would be interviewed,
>
You - correct me if I am wrong - you posted then what the Sherrif's
Dept. told you about what that person in seek for help should do? -
Come to them in person, which is very obvious and which I would have
said to the person on the very first phone call btw, instead of calling
the Sherrif myself and then running to the Internet, posting on the
osa-controlled newsgroup, that there is someone wanting to leave the
church and calling the authorities.
> In the ARS chat regarding this, another person said that anyone freshly
> battered should first go to emergency medical and get any wounds looked
> at, and thus be recorded for evidence later, if charges are brought
> against anyone for that alleged battery or whatever the legal correct
> charge is.
The person under protection of the Sherrif would have been brought by
the Sherrif to a trustworthy doctor. This I can guarantee.
>
> I posted the content of the conversations I had with the two Riverside
> County Sheriff's Dept officers that I talked to, which were two
> separate ladies. I didn't speak for myself, I simply described the
> incident I was told about, and the officers told me what that person
> should do.
>
> I then called the person who received the petty violence and told them
> what the police requested. The person declined.
>
> What do you suggest now?
I suggest to everybody: please do not call Chuck Beatty EVER.
Question: where is the person (the unlucky scientologist who called you
first instead of going immediately to the Sherrif by him/herself) now?
What is she doing? No, I do not want a name or address. I just want to
know generally. Is this person in scientology now? On this RPF-called
correction-center?
Where is this person now?
<snip>
>
People, do not let yourself being intimidated by such dirty assholes as
Chuck Beatty or Magoo. Leave them behind you. They are already almost
just a shadow, something which will completely dissappear when you open
the door wide enough to see some more daylight.
> > What you feel (the fear) is very normal. Everybody in your situation
> > would feel it. The question is, whether you allow that feeling to
> > control your actions, because that is the kind of control scientology
> > uses against you.
> >
> > Nothing will happen, if you go to the police, yet if you by yourself
> > decide to wait another week or so, that is ok. As well, if you decide
> > to stay in scientology, because you feel that is the best place on
> > earth for you. As long as you do nobody any harm, n o b o d y - and
> > that includes y o u as well - it has to be accepted. But if you stay
> > due to intimidation and fear, do not forget about me and my postings.
> > Know, that I went through a similar time, although I even am not a
> > scientologist and never was, but that intimidation and "fair game"
> > worked! So I can understand you, but I also know, that it is possible
> > to overcome it, to bring it under your own control, to fight it and to
> > win against it.
> >
> > Know that as well - i t i s p o s s i b l e. And that says a person,
> > who is for sure not as half as strong as you are! - .Lily.
>
BTW: your iditotic excuse about not going to the FBI, because you
wanted to protect some Mark or Ray or whomever, is so stupid. You could
leave them out of your reports, for instance.
.Lily.
Barbara Schwarz
OOTD, ever dawn on you that you are the implanted person, implanted to
say that I am impanted?
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
Barbara Schwarz
--
Eugenics promoter Tilman Hausherr and habitual, sexual harasser, forger
and habitual offender Korey Jerome Kruse (Vivaldi, Lord Xenu and other
sockpuppets) scribbled a defamatory misleading Wikipedia article about
me. Kruse just came out of jail.
http://www.alarmgermany.org/tilman.htm
Another abuser who stalks me from thread to thread is Peat Stapleton
(Eru Avatar), alsimak_three @ yahoo.com, from Redding, California, a
dead beat with several social security numbers, self confessed pimp and
child rapist, and former inmate with a psychiatric history.
Out_Of_The_Dark
No, Barbara, I am only going by what you yourself have reported- about
what was done to you, and about the organized effort to push you out of
Scientology and your executive position and deny ever knowing you. Why
else would you post support for the very group that is the source of
oppression and suppression which took away all that you dedicated
yourself and your heart to? The Scientology you once loved is no
longer in existence. It is run by the very same source that Hitler and
his ilk were attracted to: evil.
I hope one day you will be able to step outside the box that
'scientology' stuffed you so tightly within. Only then will you see who
the real enemy is for yourself.
JustCallMeMary
realpch
Lily, you sure are full of it.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
Dear Ray,
thanks, I see from Lily's responses there is no future in communicating
to whoever the person is. They are pretty fixed and unchanging in
their conclusions. And they are unaware of the people who knew me, who
are unaffected by Lily's and Truthseeker's charges. All part of the
erasing of the ties, the longer range sort of intelligence
marginalization operation OSA volunteers pride themselves in.
Unlike a normal person or like someone whose ideas are more flexible,
the rigidity of insistence on their forgone conclusions tying in with
smearing, just all part of humankind's worst behavior. Oh well.
Not to worry, over 100 ex Scn and ex Sea Org have contacted me, and
only about 5-10 obviously still on board ex Sea Org members who were
doing OSA biddings have tried to send invalidative communications my
way, and OSA's footprints were on those 5 or 10 people's communications
I've posted on.
People who remember me from over 10-20 years still contact me, and
thank me routinely for posting.
Thanks.
Best, Chuck
Susan
"chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156488044.1...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Dear Ray,
Thanks.
Best, Chuck
-----begin post------
Chuck,
Terrific to hear that about 100 + ex-SO folks are reading ars and the web.
Susan
------end post-------
Barbara Schwarz
"Out_Of_The_Dark" <xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1156474543.5...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think hanging out on ARS and Wikipiggi makes many people confused, thanks
heaven not me. Of course, the C of S is target of infiltration and I post
that since a long time. I am not speaking as C of S press speaker. I am not
excusing any non-scientological activities within the orgs. I speak for my
religion, L. Ron Hubbard, Marty and myself. When I see injustice done to a
Scientologist, I also speak up. But that is all I am doing.
The C of S is not my enemy. They don't reveal data to me that I need to have
and would be entitled to but they are not after me. A German secret service
and their psychs and agents are my enemies. As it is my life, I know best
who is trying to get me down.
--
Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark [Marty] Rathbun. No
impostor, please!)
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
--
(I am concerned about Dave Touretzky's activities.)
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
Read the pages on terrorist-friendly Andreas Heldal-Lund (arrested for
harassment):
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund/Lund04.html
Wikipedia defamation scribbler and pro eugenics Tilman Joerg Hausherr,
linked to the fanatical German secret service OPC, enemy of the USA wants to
hurt American tourism.
http://www.parishioners.org/extremists/hauser1.html
http://www.alarmgermany.org/tilman.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/8962a9830812112f?hl=en&
Wikipedia defames and denies constitutional rights. The anti-free speech
leadership of Wikipedia banned me from correcting lies and defamation around
their article on me!
>
>
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