Who or What is Laura Terepin?
Jesse Prince
Who or What is Laura Terepin?
As many of you well know, last July, Stacy Young and I got together as old
friends from Scientology and started working together to expose the abuse and
deception one is likely to experience in the cult of Scientology.
I flew to LA to meet with attorney Dan Leipold to see if there was anything I
could do to help FACTNet with a copyright suit filed by Scientology against
FACTNet. During this time Stacy introduced me to many people, but this is
about a special person she introduced me to. A woman by the name of Laura
Terepin.
Stacy told me that Laura had worked in the Cult Awareness Network with Cynthia
Kisser. At this time CAN was now defunct, having been sued into the ground by
Scientology and individual Scientologists. Of all the people I had met, Laura
seemed very odd and out of place. Specifically, she told me she was not
employed, nor had she ever been. Laura seemed to come and go as she pleased,
flying here and there just to be with Stacy and others who were involved in
legal cases against Scientology. Laura worked on organizing files for CAN and
offered her services to Dan Leipold to help me with an affidavit for the
FACTNet case. Laura refused any money for her work and made it clear she did
not want to be seen in any court case or in any pictures.
She explained this away by saying her uncle would not approve. According to
Laura, her uncle was extremely wealthy and gave her all the financial support
she needed. Laura said her uncle was heavily into the Mafia and organized
crime. She also implied this same uncle physically and sexually abused her.
She told me she was an adopted child and her parents ignored her most of the
time, sending her off to camp and private school. She told me a pitiful story
about how her same sex French teacher sexually abused her, which is why she
was a lesbian now. However, in the same breath she said she had met a man
named Kryle, whom she recently had sex with and she was now not so sure she
wanted to remain a lesbian.
Laura was quite obsessed with following me and knowing where I was and what my
plans were during the entire time I was in LA. She came off like she really
cared about me and was so worried about me all the time, yet I hardly knew her
at all. This went on and on and I talked to Stacy about it. I told Stacy that I
thought Laura was a plant and that she was very weird. Laura loved to smoke
pot and we smoked some together a couple of times during my trip to LA. Now I
will give you the specific instances that made me suspect her.
After hearing the history of Laura we became somewhat intimate. This in itself
was a bit of a shock as when I touched her in intimate places it was like
reaching into a deep freezer and grabbing a frozen cat fish. But to hear her
moans and groans you would had thought she was seriously hot and bothered.
Looking deep into her dark pretty eyes betrayed the hidden frozen cat fish,
i.e. there was no emotion there, it was all an act. I began to lose interest
in her as a sexual partner, although we still carried on a bit.
Stacy and I took Laura with us to visit a mutual friend whom I am keeping
anonymous out of respect.
This friend and I became friends while in the cult and our friendship survived
the cult. Well, Laura
just loves to smoke pot and had to have some so there we were. My friend
immediately suspected her as a plant because the friend didn't know her and had
neverheard of her before. Again the history she gave of herself just didn't seem
to add up. She told my friend of her involvement with CAN and she added that she
found it difficult to work at CAN at times because she felt her boss Cynthia
Kisser was trying to have a sexual relationship with her and this confused
her. She also said she was ordered to go to Wellspring because of her odd
behavior with meditation and such, but she didn't like it and never finished
the program. She is a seductive woman and got right down to flirting with
my friend, telling the friend what a great person the friend was, etc., etc. Now
she had my friend going and my friend offered to let her spend the night at my
friends place. She declined but said she wanted to stay in contact with my
friend. Later on that night my friend came to me and said there was something
odd about her and my friend was concerned that Stacy and I had just brought her
to the house without first letting my friend know she was coming.
All the while, private investigators seem to have a magical way of predicting
our every move at any given moment.
Stacy and I then stayed at the house of another mutual friend and Laura stayed
there as well. I am not mentioning who the mutual friend was by request of the
friend. The friend spoke to me later after spending some time with Laura and
told me something was very odd about Laura. Laura had told the friend (whom
she had just met that day) the sexual abuse story, the criminal uncle … on and
on. A person that was at the friend's house told the friend they thought Laura
was a plant as her behavior was just too odd.
The next day I met with Dan for the first time, and yes, Laura was there. She
told Dan she would help him organize the files for the FACTNet case and she
would also type an affidavit for me. The next day Dan's office is swarming
with private investigator and OSA drones trying to deliver a letter to me. I
posted one of the letters just recently. It was from Elliot Abelson. I don't
have the letter to hand but paraphrased it said he understood I was meeting
with lawyers who were involved in litigation against Scientology. How in the
hell did he know this? At this point I had not written any affidavits or given
any testimony against Scientology in any way. There were so many private
investigators following me that when I drove down the street it seemed like I
was the grand master of a car parade! The whole time I'm with my lover bunny
Laura Terepin. Stacy and I have both written about the antics of the private
investigators and OSA drones in LA earlier, so excuse me for not going into
all the details again, but I will say this. Laura was supposed to meet me at
my hotel for some hot sex late one night but she never showed up. Who did show
up were two private investigators with another threatening letter from
Scientology stating how they were going to sue me into the ground if I didn't
stop associating with hostile attorneys. Can you imagine? Here I am, busy
thinking I'm about to get laid on a hot steamy LA night and these goons show
up. To say I was frustrated is an understatement, and I ended up kicking in
the car door of the private investigator's SUV. He said he was going to blow
my black nigger head off and I chased his dumb ass to the highway in my car.
My little lover bunny Laura had disappeared and was out of touch. I left LA
and flew to Minneapolis.
After I had been in Minneapolis for a few days Laura called me. I was still
upset with her and wanted nothing to do with her. As a matter of fact I told
her she could listen in to me having sex with another woman if she wanted to
but I had no time for her. I called Stacy and told her I was sure this girl
was a plant but Stacy defended her. I was in the middle of moving from
Minneapolis to Boulder and I didn't want anything to do with Laura. She called
3-4 times a day to ask me what I was doing and who I was talking to and to
tell me how worried she was about me. I did everything I could to blow her
off. I told her the next time I wanted to see her face was with me looking
down at her with my balls swinging from the tip of
her lips. She acted like this excited her beyond belief and I must admit I
then doubted how I felt about her.
I finally arrived in Denver last August to give a deposition in the FACTNet
copyright case and guess who shows up. Ol' lover bunny herself, Laura Terepin.
The last thing on my mind at that time was sex as I had been being mentally
abused for 10 hours a day by Sandy Rosen, Scientology's Earl Cooley
replacement and El Ron look alike. On the way to my hotel room this gorgeous
blonde woman with all the right stuff is trying to get into the room across
the hall from my room. She starts a conversation and we decide to meet later
at the bar. Well, that sure made me feel better! Later I go down to the bar
and the blonde was not there but Laura sure was. I was still pissed off at her
and I told her to her face that I thought she was a scientology plant. Oh boy,
now she goes into how hurt she is that I would think such a thing, she cried
and said she loved me, on and on. Then the blonde shows up so I don't have
time to get into it that much with Laura as I was experiencing an extreme
deficit of attention for her. Anyway, to make a long story short, me, the
blond and Laura all end up going to my room after a few drinks.
I've told this story before as well. Suffice to say, my "Danger, Jesse!
Danger!" antenna would not be denied. I ended up getting rid of both Laura and
the blonde that night and just went to sleep, as I had
to be in court for a hearing and deposition early the next morning. As it
turned out, the blonde was a hired whore Scientology tried to run in on me.
She was there with her "brother," who happens to be the same private
investigator that calls my family and friends representing himself as the
Denver police. Lover bunny Laura was there as well, of course.
During the course of the deposition I was asked who was present when I did my
affidavit for FACTNet and Sandy Rosen would not give it a rest until he got me
to admit Laura Terepin was there as well. I can only imagine he was testing me
to see if I would lie under oath as he already knew Laura was there. This is a
key point to understand the significance of what that means. Laura Terepin
is/was a Scientology plant and I'll get into the details of that later. One of
many mistakes Sandy Rosen made was to force me to admit Laura was present at
Dan Leipold's office during my activities for the FACTnet case. Hey! Guess
what! That is illegal and no one in the world could pay Laura to sue anyone for
saying She is/was a plant as Scientology can't bear the scrutiny of the
discovery process. Judge Kane won't have it.
Again, Stacy and I were in disagreement about her being a plant but other
people were starting to be convinced she was. Laura now wants to come to
Vashon to visit Stacy. She said she was involved in copying CAN files because
it looked like Scientology would gain possession of the files. Laura offered
to help get the files copied at a secret location, but we all know what
happened. Scientology lawyers somehow found out where the secret location was
and brought a marshal in with a court order. Right after this disaster Laura
comes to Vashon and she has to have her pot so I go running off to see if I
can help her out. Well, I did manage to get a little bit which she enjoyed.
The next day I had to leave for the east coast and was met by DEA agents who
had apparently gotten a hot tip. Well, of course, they found nothing because
there was nothing for them to find. Laura knew my destination and called to
see if I arrived. I had told her I would bring whatever was left over from the
pot I had with me. Can you imagine her despair when she found out I had
arrived safely without incident? Wonder why Scientology puts out DA packs
about me being a drug abuser? Remember the Scientology sacrament -- if there
is no evidence, manufacture it.
After this little incident a private investigator was employed and I gave him
as much information as I could about Laura. He came back with confirmation
that not only did Laura live with a current Scientology staff member, she was
making regular phone calls to a private investigator who works for David Lee
who works for Gene Ingram.
I myself have run plants in on groups and people critical of Scientology and
I've posted about this before. I apologize if the above information proved to
be more reality than some can handle.
Fighting Scientology is serious business. People like Dennis Erlich, Lawrence
Wollershim and Paulette Cooper know all to well the depth of criminality to
which the cult will sink to prevent exposure.
You want to talk to Laura about it? Here are her last known phone numbers:
The last time I actually talked to Laura she was telling me there are things
about Scientology that she agreed with and thought were good and sound
principles. Specifically she mention the concept of "the greatest good for the
greatest number". I listened to what she had to say and pointed out another view
of this idea. The concept of the greatest good for the greatest number seems to
make sense and even in some cases may be appropriate but it sure is contrary to
our American constitution and the constitution of the majority of civilized
countries. In America we believe and practice that each and every person has
inalienable rights to freedom of speech, the right to privacy …on and on. If a
person of a different faith or culture happens to be in a place where the
majority of the people disagree, if the majority then decides to do away with a
person because he is different the majority runs to risk of being prosecuted to
the full extent of the law. In some cases more does not automatically mean
better. A rational analysis of the concept "the greatest good" in fact shows
the concept itself has very limited use. However in Scientology it is touted as
a basic wonderful discovery of Ron Hubbard. Laura was speechless when I gave
her this argument and this was the last time we really talked.
Looking back on why Laura seemed so odd in light of other information that came
up about her it is clearer to me why and what was happening. Despite working
under cover, Laura is still human. When you associate with people that you may
dislike for an extended period of time a person develops feelings anyway. The
business of being a spy or a plant is somewhat different than what Hollywood or
TV portrays. I think Laura was/is being paid to provide information to an
investigator who in turn reports to the Jerky Boys in OSA because that is the
nature of the business. She was not reporting to Jerky boy Miscavage or Jerky
boy Rinder because they have to keep distance between themselves and their
criminal activities. Laura has feelings and I'm sure was confused about what she
was doing and what the results of her actions were because that is how she would
act. Another point is this, maybe Laura's cover story of what she was about was
mostly true because it is hard to remember lies over and over but the truth
comes natural. I am sure t she is disturbed and needs help. Laura will not be of
much use to Scientology at this point and maybe this would be a good opportunity
to get honest and straight with herself and those she associates with. If Laura
wants to be honest and tell the truth I would be one of the first to applaud her
for her courage and accept her as a friend. By her actions she was not able to
do any real damage to me or my friends. The fact of the matter is she was having
more fun in her association with critics of cults than not.
I don't hate Laura, I don't hate anyone.
Respectfully Submitted,
Jesse Prince
Roland
obvious that they had a plant hanging around you and Bob all the time.
You lot should have suspected and investigated it ages ago.
Roland
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
I must admit I'm a bit puzzled, and when the feeling of
embarrasment after Jesses post was mostly gone I do have
a little bad taste in my mouth. I got no doubt the cult
has tried at least stunts like this on Stacy, Bob and
Jesse, but I'm also wondering if they wouldn't have
arranged it better.
I have no personal experience on the subject, I'm not
privileged to any other information than what is available
here on ARS. I still would like to hear what those involved
have to say about the possibility that Laura Terepin was
the one originally duped? Ok, maybe she is different and
suspicious by character, but must she have known that who
she lived with was CoS staff, and is it certain that she
made those phone calls?
I suspect further information will clear this.
Best wishes, SP4 & Adm. TOXE CXI
Andreas Heldal-Lund, Normannsgaten 9, N-4013 Stavanger, Norway
Pho: +47 88 00 66 66 Fax: 90 32 35 46 E-mail: hel...@online.no
home.sol.no/~spirous www.xenu.net www.hedning.no/hedning
---------------------------------------------------------------
"The great snare of thought is uncritical acceptance of
irrational assumptions." - Will Durant
---------------------------------------------------------------
Bernie
>Who or What is Laura Terepin?
[Big snip]
Not a *SINGLE* evidence but a load of *TRULY* disgusting invasion of privacy,
conjectures, and paranoid assumptions.
Is *that* the stupendous "revelations" you expect critical people to swallow and
all of a sudden be in awe on how you Mintonians right were?
This really reveals *MUCH* more about *YOU* than it does about Laura.
Go away.
Rod Keller
: I must admit I'm a bit puzzled, and when the feeling of
: embarrasment after Jesses post was mostly gone I do have
: a little bad taste in my mouth. I got no doubt the cult
: has tried at least stunts like this on Stacy, Bob and
: Jesse, but I'm also wondering if they wouldn't have
: arranged it better.
Yes, embarrassment is about right. I can only explain it to myself that
Jesse feels a tremendous amount of anger and pain at having been tricked,
and is dumping everything that Scientology knows about him to us all.
--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher
Black Hat #1 / Expert of the Toilet / CWPD Mouthpiece
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Vision of Destruction
Killer Rod / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully
Bernie
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:25:21 +0000, Roland
><roland.rash...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>>I don't need much convincing. The Clams knew your every move. It was
>>obvious that they had a plant hanging around you and Bob all the time.
>>You lot should have suspected and investigated it ages ago.
>
>I must admit I'm a bit puzzled, and when the feeling of
>embarrasment after Jesses post was mostly gone I do have
>a little bad taste in my mouth. I got no doubt the cult
>has tried at least stunts like this on Stacy, Bob and
>Jesse, but I'm also wondering if they wouldn't have
>arranged it better.
The cult doesn't need a plant to know of Jesse whereabous and follow
his every move. This is silly.
>I have no personal experience on the subject, I'm not
>privileged to any other information than what is available
>here on ARS. I still would like to hear what those involved
>have to say about the possibility that Laura Terepin was
>the one originally duped? Ok, maybe she is different and
>suspicious by character, but must she have known that who
>she lived with was CoS staff, and is it certain that she
>made those phone calls?
We only heard one side of the story so far.
>I suspect further information will clear this.
It better be something substantial. In which way the revelation of
personal and private details about someone else does anything to
further the hypothesis that Laura was a plant?
Roland
>
> >Subject: Who or What is Laura Terepin?
> >From: jes...@gte.net (Jesse Prince)
>
> >Who or What is Laura Terepin?
>
> speechless but I feel that I must make a few comments. I commented in another
> thread that Laura called me yesterday morning, crying her heart out. These
Oh dear. <smirk>
> were not fake tears.
Course not. Not like fake orgasms when jesse was shagging her.
> She told me that only messages of support on the ARS from
> caring and alert people and a message of support from Cynthia Kisser got her
> through the night. God knows what she will go though when she reads this
> sickness from Jesse Prince.
<simper>
> I know Laura Terepin quite well. In fact she is one of the most sincere,
> caring, giving, hard working persons that I know I worked with her in the CAN
> office. She was one of several volunteers who came in to help out. I can't
> imagine a scientology 'plant' working as hard as she did. She was there 2-5
> days a week and I mean she worked with complete sincerity and dedication. At
> the time she was quite reclusive as a result of a serious psychological
> wounding from her experience in a cult. Cynthia Kisser went out of her way to
> make her feel wanted and useful there.
So at last somebody checks out the story she has told about her life
and finds it is totally false. And that she was living in the same
house as a Scientologist staff member !!!
> The CAN office was a closed office and was under a constant harassment siege
> from Scientology. A plot to murder Cynthia Kisser had surfaced. It was easy
> to get suspicious and paranoid about everything. For a period I was suspicious
> of Laura. I was suspicious of the guy in the car behind me, of the guy
> standing across from the CAN office, of the truck parked outside of my home.
> And on and on.
<giggle>
> Laura and I were this, past fall, involved in an archival project to copy
> everything in the CAN Files as scientology was again making legal moves to
> seize them. This project was scuttled with scientology legal machinations.
> Laura then told me that there were some who suspected her of being a
> scientology agent. We laughed it off.
Did she suck your dick?
> Recently, Bob Minton called me and told me of his allegation regarding Laura.
> This is the only time that I have spoken with Bob. He seemed very sincere and
> ernest about this. He was convincing and I leaned in his direction. It would
> be very convenient to have Laura as a scientology agent It would easily
> explain a lot of things. How did scientology know everything that CAN did?
> How did scientologist lawyer, Kendrick Moxon know about the project to copy CAN
> Files? How did scientology agent, Ian Mann, know of Cynthia Kisser's every
> Court appearance? How did scientology know of Bob Minton's every move? The
> answer is so simple, Laura Terepin knew or found about all of these things and
> passed them on to her scientology handlers by her cell phone with special
> numbers. I went for this solution, briefly, myself. And I am more than
> ashamed of it.
>
> I would like to just make a few comments on some of the garbage that Jesse
> Prince has posted.
>
> < Laura refused any money for her work and made it clear she did not want to be
> seen in any court case or in any pictures. She explained this away by saying
> her uncle would not approve. According to Laura, her uncle was extremely
> wealthy and gave her all the financial support she needed. Laura said her uncle
> was heavily into the Mafia and organized crime. >
>
> It's funny that none of us at CAN every heard of the wealthy Mafia uncle.
> Prince knows her for 10 minutes and has all of this weird history from her.
>
> Prince's next and very sick statement about sex with him is beyond comment.
> Of all the people I knew in scientology and the former members that I know, I
> can't think of one who would descend to making such lewd and vicious
> commments.
>
> >She told my friend of her involvement with CAN and she added that she
> >found it difficult to work at CAN at times because she felt her boss Cynthia
> >Kisser was trying to have a sexual relationship with her and this confused
> >her.
>
> This is totall bullshit. A vicious and sick lie from Mr. Prince. I hope that
> both Cynthia Kisser and Laura will sue this guy. Much of the rest of Prince's
> post is beyond comment except to say that this guy has a vivid sexual fantasy
> life which includes every women in the world lusting after him.
>
> >Another point is this, maybe Laura's cover story of what she was about was
> mostly true because it is hard to remember lies over and over but the truth
> comes natural. I am sure t she is disturbed and needs help.>
>
> She is definetly disturbed and will need help after this vicious onslaught from
> Prince and Minton. In fact, many of us are quite disturbed over this.
>
> >I don't hate Laura, I don't hate anyone.
>
> >Respectfully Submitted,
> >
> >Jesse Prince
>
> Beneath contempt. Very, very sick.
>
> Jim Beebe
What a fucking hoot !!!!!!!!!
Roland
JimDBB
>From: jes...@gte.net (Jesse Prince)
>Who or What is Laura Terepin?
I am truly appalled at this sick and shocking post from Jesse Prince. I am
speechless but I feel that I must make a few comments. I commented in another
thread that Laura called me yesterday morning, crying her heart out. These
were not fake tears. She told me that only messages of support on the ARS from
caring and alert people and a message of support from Cynthia Kisser got her
through the night. God knows what she will go though when she reads this
sickness from Jesse Prince.
I know Laura Terepin quite well. In fact she is one of the most sincere,
caring, giving, hard working persons that I know I worked with her in the CAN
office. She was one of several volunteers who came in to help out. I can't
imagine a scientology 'plant' working as hard as she did. She was there 2-5
days a week and I mean she worked with complete sincerity and dedication. At
the time she was quite reclusive as a result of a serious psychological
wounding from her experience in a cult. Cynthia Kisser went out of her way to
make her feel wanted and useful there.
The CAN office was a closed office and was under a constant harassment siege
from Scientology. A plot to murder Cynthia Kisser had surfaced. It was easy
to get suspicious and paranoid about everything. For a period I was suspicious
of Laura. I was suspicious of the guy in the car behind me, of the guy
standing across from the CAN office, of the truck parked outside of my home.
And on and on.
Laura and I were this, past fall, involved in an archival project to copy
everything in the CAN Files as scientology was again making legal moves to
seize them. This project was scuttled with scientology legal machinations.
Laura then told me that there were some who suspected her of being a
scientology agent. We laughed it off.
Recently, Bob Minton called me and told me of his allegation regarding Laura.
This is the only time that I have spoken with Bob. He seemed very sincere and
ernest about this. He was convincing and I leaned in his direction. It would
be very convenient to have Laura as a scientology agent It would easily
explain a lot of things. How did scientology know everything that CAN did?
How did scientologist lawyer, Kendrick Moxon know about the project to copy CAN
Files? How did scientology agent, Ian Mann, know of Cynthia Kisser's every
Court appearance? How did scientology know of Bob Minton's every move? The
answer is so simple, Laura Terepin knew or found about all of these things and
passed them on to her scientology handlers by her cell phone with special
numbers. I went for this solution, briefly, myself. And I am more than
ashamed of it.
I would like to just make a few comments on some of the garbage that Jesse
Prince has posted.
< Laura refused any money for her work and made it clear she did not want to be
seen in any court case or in any pictures. She explained this away by saying
her uncle would not approve. According to Laura, her uncle was extremely
wealthy and gave her all the financial support she needed. Laura said her uncle
was heavily into the Mafia and organized crime. >
It's funny that none of us at CAN every heard of the wealthy Mafia uncle.
Prince knows her for 10 minutes and has all of this weird history from her.
Prince's next and very sick statement about sex with him is beyond comment.
Of all the people I knew in scientology and the former members that I know, I
can't think of one who would descend to making such lewd and vicious
commments.
>She told my friend of her involvement with CAN and she added that she
>found it difficult to work at CAN at times because she felt her boss Cynthia
>Kisser was trying to have a sexual relationship with her and this confused
>her.
This is totall bullshit. A vicious and sick lie from Mr. Prince. I hope that
both Cynthia Kisser and Laura will sue this guy. Much of the rest of Prince's
post is beyond comment except to say that this guy has a vivid sexual fantasy
life which includes every women in the world lusting after him.
>Another point is this, maybe Laura's cover story of what she was about was
mostly true because it is hard to remember lies over and over but the truth
comes natural. I am sure t she is disturbed and needs help.>
She is definetly disturbed and will need help after this vicious onslaught from
Prince and Minton. In fact, many of us are quite disturbed over this.
>I don't hate Laura, I don't hate anyone.
>Respectfully Submitted,
>
>Jesse Prince
Beneath contempt. Very, very sick.
Jim Beebe
Rebecca Hartong
Jesse Prince wrote in message <785bih$ku$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
>Respectfully Submitted,
Ha! I don't think you know the meaning of the word. For whom, precisely,
were you supposedly showing respect? Certainly not for Laura Terepin. You
took every opportunity to insult her in this post. And certainly not for
the critics on a.r.s., most of whom are quite capable of seeing through your
ad hominem, circular arguments, and self-aggrandizement.
Tilman Hausherr
(JimDBB) wrote:
> >She told my friend of her involvement with CAN and she added that she
>>found it difficult to work at CAN at times because she felt her boss Cynthia
>>Kisser was trying to have a sexual relationship with her and this confused
>>her.
>
>This is totall bullshit. A vicious and sick lie from Mr. Prince. I hope that
>both Cynthia Kisser and Laura will sue this guy.
If I understand correctly, it isn't Prince who is telling this, it was
Laura.
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Clearwater pictures: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4497/clearwater/index.html
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Xapped
>
>
> Who or What is Laura Terepin?
I am really happy you were able follow up on what you knew was right and
that everything turned out as well as it did.
Congratulations on a job well done to a great team!
Joe C.
My response to the Scientology attack on Germany is contained in the
documentation on Scientology in German-speaking countries at website:
http://cisar.org
James J. Lippard
Tilman Hausherr <til...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
>In <19990120183728...@ng-fb1.aol.com>, jim...@aol.com
>(JimDBB) wrote:
>
>>>found it difficult to work at CAN at times because she felt her boss Cynthia
>>>Kisser was trying to have a sexual relationship with her and this confused
>>>her.
>>
>>both Cynthia Kisser and Laura will sue this guy.
>
>If I understand correctly, it isn't Prince who is telling this, it was
>Laura.
Jesse Prince says that Laura Terepin said this.
The possibilities are:
1. Jesse was telling the truth and so was Laura--Laura said this, and it
was true.
2. Jesse was telling the truth--Laura said this, but it wasn't true.
3. Jesse was not telling the truth, Laura didn't say this.
All that Jim Beebe has refuted is #1. He hasn't provided any evidence to
distinguish between #2 and #3.
--
Jim Lippard lippard@(primenet.com discord.org ediacara.org)
Phoenix, Arizona http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/
PGP Fingerprint: B130 7BE1 18C1 AA4C 4D51 388F 6E6D 2C7A 36D3 CB4F
James J. Lippard
Bernie <ma...@bernie.us-inc.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:49:09 GMT jes...@gte.net (Jesse Prince) wrote:
>
>
>
>Not a *SINGLE* evidence but a load of *TRULY* disgusting invasion of privacy,
>conjectures, and paranoid assumptions.
No, it's evidence. He is testifying to first-person experience. That is,
indeed, evidence. Some of it is clearly verifiable or refutable with
third parties, some of it not. But it's still evidence either way.
James J. Lippard
>Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net (hel...@online.no) wrote:
>: embarrasment after Jesses post was mostly gone I do have
>: a little bad taste in my mouth. I got no doubt the cult
>: has tried at least stunts like this on Stacy, Bob and
>: Jesse, but I'm also wondering if they wouldn't have
>: arranged it better.
>
>Jesse feels a tremendous amount of anger and pain at having been tricked,
>and is dumping everything that Scientology knows about him to us all.
That's a good move, in my opinion.
If you don't have secrets, then their revelation can't be used as a weapon
against you.
Lance S. Buckley
wrote:
<snipped fantasies of a disturbed mind>
Jesse, if you really -have- been to Wellspring recently, I
seriously suggest you return and get a refund. They haven't done
their job. You are a complete mess.
Respectfully submitted,
Lance.
Bob Minton
<roland.rash...@virgin.net> wrote:
>I don't need much convincing. The Clams knew your every move. It was
>obvious that they had a plant hanging around you and Bob all the time.
>You lot should have suspected and investigated it ages ago.
>
We "were sure" by October.
Bob
tall...@storm.ca
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Jesse Prince wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Who or What is Laura Terepin?
>
>that everything turned out as well as it did.
>
>Congratulations on a job well done to a great team!
>
>Joe C.
Ummm.
This *is* sarcasm, right?
K
faith in human nature hanging in the balance
Zenon Panoussis
Bernie skrev:
>
> We only heard one side of the story so far.
True. But then again, a.r.s. is open to everyone. Laura,
please, what's your side of the story?
Z
--
oracle@everywhere: The ephemeral source of the eternal truth...
Bob Minton
snip
>Recently, Bob Minton called me and told me of his allegation regarding Laura.
>This is the only time that I have spoken with Bob. He seemed very sincere and
>ernest about this. He was convincing and I leaned in his direction. It would
>be very convenient to have Laura as a scientology agent It would easily
>explain a lot of things. How did scientology know everything that CAN did?
>How did scientologist lawyer, Kendrick Moxon know about the project to copy CAN
>Files? How did scientology agent, Ian Mann, know of Cynthia Kisser's every
>Court appearance? How did scientology know of Bob Minton's every move? The
>answer is so simple, Laura Terepin knew or found about all of these things and
>passed them on to her scientology handlers by her cell phone with special
>numbers. I went for this solution, briefly, myself. And I am more than
>ashamed of it.
>
So why did you tell me ten or so days ago with stacy present that you jim
beebe told cynthia kisser that you thought laura was a plant for scientology
several years ago. Then precede to tell me how cynthia blew you off and
belittled you to the point of you being afaid to ever raise the issue again?
Bob Minton
Bob Minton
JimDBB
>From: bobm...@cultofscientology.net
>Bob Minton
Bob, you may notice in my post that I referred to being suspicious of Laura
at one time while working in the CAN office. I didn't feel it necessary to go
into further detail. What I said to you was that I went to Cynthia Kisser
with my suspsicions and she soundly discounted them. And I actually felt
foolish for bringing my suspicions up and I hoped that she wouldn't mention
this to Laura. I didn't say that "she belittled me to the point". Perhaps
this is a semantics quibble. Frankly, I didn't want Laura to know that I was
ever suspecting of her. In point of fact, I think that they were probably all
(CAN staff) quite suspicious of me as a former scientologist coming to work
in the CAN office.
I am having a great deal of trouble with all of this , Bob. You seem to be
privy to information that I know nothing of. You and the others seem to know a
different person than I know.
It may be the best thing if I just withdraw from all of this.
Jim Beebe
Jim Beebe
Deana Marie Holmes
Still no evidence.
So where's your evidence, Bob?
Or is it the "spectral evidence" that the young girls of Salem used to
convict their enemies of witchcraft?
Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod Keller)
The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
mir...@xmission.com
Zane
wrote:
>a load of *TRULY* disgusting
I'm embarassed to find that I have to agree with Bernie. Good work
Jesse.
Zane - KoX, SP4, Club Nine
Free meme innoculations!
Jesse Prince
I have a few additional comments to make in retrospect to the information I
posted earlier. This is mostly in response to valid criticism I have received
concerning the information I provided.
Anger? Maybe Jesse was very angry when he wrote this post.
This part is very very true. I was angry and blew off some steam.
Since I have decided to make known damaging information to myself and other
people in Scientology about Scientology my life has turned into an open book.
Scientology has waged a continual attack not only on me but my family and
friends who never have and never will have anything to do with Scientology one
way or the other. Because I have chosen to expose the criminal nature of
Scientology I have placed innocent people in harms way. One would think that
since I abandoned my family and friends for many years (16) and have gone
through very humbling experiences to regain the trust and kinship with my
children, other family members and friends why do I now expose them to a new
threat of constant harassment from Scientology and its paid thugs?
Another question. Why after creating a life for myself divorced of Scientology
in any way would I now choose to fight them when I was starting to do well as a
normal person again? The price I pay is to live under a microscope devoid of any
real social life spending most of my time alone and by myself?
My inner most secrets divulged in Scientology are being bandied around to
family, friends and neighbors I don't even know?
Do you who know me or criticize me find these tough questions to answer
rationally. I mean come on, wouldn't most just walk away and forget about it?
These are questions that have plagued me for the last 3 months and the fact of
the matter is I had no answers that satisfied me, my family or my children. I
found myself becoming paralyzed to the point of inaction. I found I was
becoming unable to do anything anymore. I needed some help but didn't know where
to find it.
Finally, after months of internal suffering I was convinced to go to
Wellsprings.
I discovered that I had a lot of pent up anger and resentment for getting
involved with the anti scientology movement because contrary to popular belief
there was little to nothing I receive in return for my efforts.
Something has changed now. I have gotten excellent therapy and have looked
deeply into areas I thought were better left closed. One positive aspect of all
of this is I can feel emotions again, I feel my humanity coming back to me.
I also know the simple reason why I do this, why I fight. The reason is because
I CAN do it. I CAN make a difference. I Can spare others the fate of ruined and
destroyed lives in a unique way and there are not many like me that can do it
the way I can due to the experiences I have with being in the Cult of
Scientology.
While I stand behind the raw information I release about Laura Terepin I am also
deeply ashamed of the way I presented it and for this I apologize. The anger I
was feeling about another betrayal came out wrong and clouded the real issue at
hand. The fact of the matter is this is what Scientology does and how it acts. I
have/am trying to disassociate myself from practicing Scientology in anyway.
I gave you an angry look at what has been happening in my life and it was
anything but pleasant or the right thing to do. Just because Scientology holds
my personal life up as a spectacle for all to see is no reason for me to
accommodate them by doing the same to myself and others.
Fair warning! I may get angry again and find a way to separate the anger from me
but I promise you I will never do it on ARS.
Again, I apologize for the way out of character way I presented the information
about Laura Terepin. In future, if I report again I will report as I have in the
past. Just the facts.
Sincerely,
Jesse Prince
Dave Glue
<snip>
I was quite hesitant to add my opinion to the pile, mainly because I haven't
been in the group for a few weeks and more importantly, since I haven't
experienced what Jesse has and it probably isn't my place to judge. But
then again, my thought process haven't been muddied by the Co$ either. With
that in mind...
While this string of coincidences does at least lend itself to the
proposition that you do have a plant, I believe to post such private
information about someone, you had better have absolute _proof_ that their
background was false. If Laura's past is true, that would certainly go a
long way towards explaining her rather odd behaviour - and make your public
display of what she likely considered very private information rather
shameful. Posting her phone numbers is not advisable under any
circumstances, unless you yourself have been the victim of such tactics.
And do we really need all the details of your steamy sex life? If this post
was truly made by the "real" Jesse Prince, I think you still need some time
to get over your Co$ experience. This does little but supply ammunition to
those who claim the critics are just as irrational as the ones they
criticise.
Boudewijn van Ingen
wrote:
Hello Jesse,
I've been expecting this message from you. I was even able to predict,
or to put it more accurate, anticipate some of its content. I guess
that must be due to my long exposure to this newsgroup.
I feel very uncomfortable myself, having to post this message. Please
understand that I respect you very much. Not because you are "rich",
or because you have been a "high-ranking" member of the cult. I simply
tend to respect people I don't know very well (and who have a story to
tell), because I always expect to learn something from them.
Therefore I'm sorry to have to do this, but I'll have to ask some
questions that might arouse a certain "uncomfortable" feeling. But
please answer them, even just by the comment "no comment"? ;-)
I'll also add my comments to this, so as to allow everyone to realize
what we're talking about here...
My language may seem "blunt" at times, unfortunately that is the way
Usenet works. I beg your forgiveness...
>Who or What is Laura Terepin?
AFAIK, she was employed by the "old CAN" for a substantial amount of
time...
>As many of you well know, last July, Stacy Young and I got together as old
>friends from Scientology and started working together to expose the abuse and
>deception one is likely to experience in the cult of Scientology.
>
>I flew to LA to meet with attorney Dan Leipold to see if there was anything I
>could do to help FACTNet with a copyright suit filed by Scientology against
>FACTNet. During this time Stacy introduced me to many people, but this is
>about a special person she introduced me to. A woman by the name of Laura
>Terepin.
>
>Stacy told me that Laura had worked in the Cult Awareness Network with Cynthia
>Kisser. At this time CAN was now defunct, having been sued into the ground by
>Scientology and individual Scientologists. Of all the people I had met, Laura
>seemed very odd and out of place. Specifically, she told me she was not
>employed, nor had she ever been. Laura seemed to come and go as she pleased,
>flying here and there just to be with Stacy and others who were involved in
>legal cases against Scientology. Laura worked on organizing files for CAN and
>offered her services to Dan Leipold to help me with an affidavit for the
>FACTNet case. Laura refused any money for her work and made it clear she did
>not want to be seen in any court case or in any pictures.
Did she ever indicate such feelings in writing, either to you, to Dan,
or to the "old CAN"?
>She explained this away by saying her uncle would not approve. According to
>Laura, her uncle was extremely wealthy and gave her all the financial support
>she needed. Laura said her uncle was heavily into the Mafia and organized
>crime. She also implied this same uncle physically and sexually abused her.
Any name or location or any other details about the uncle?
This seems to be your friend #1. Let me get back to that a bit later.
>All the while, private investigators seem to have a magical way of predicting
>our every move at any given moment.
Yes, and there are many ways to find out about your "every move". You
know, that's supposed to be the "trade" of a PI...
>Stacy and I then stayed at the house of another mutual friend and Laura stayed
>there as well. I am not mentioning who the mutual friend was by request of the
>friend. The friend spoke to me later after spending some time with Laura and
>told me something was very odd about Laura. Laura had told the friend (whom
>she had just met that day) the sexual abuse story, the criminal uncle ? on and
>on. A person that was at the friend's house told the friend they thought Laura
>was a plant as her behavior was just too odd.
Friend #2. What do you think these third party character assesments
add to your story, in the way of "evidence"? Do you realize that these
"stories" do as much to underpin your tale as your entire posting does
for the claims Bob made earlier on this newsgroup?
>The next day I met with Dan for the first time, and yes, Laura was there. She
>told Dan she would help him organize the files for the FACTNet case and she
>would also type an affidavit for me. The next day Dan's office is swarming
>with private investigator and OSA drones trying to deliver a letter to me. I
>posted one of the letters just recently. It was from Elliot Abelson. I don't
>have the letter to hand but paraphrased it said he understood I was meeting
>with lawyers who were involved in litigation against Scientology. How in the
>hell did he know this?
He had you followed, no doubt. More PI's doing "busyness as usual"?
> At this point I had not written any affidavits or given
>any testimony against Scientology in any way. There were so many private
>investigators following me that when I drove down the street it seemed like I
>was the grand master of a car parade! The whole time I'm with my lover bunny
>Laura Terepin.
Tell me why they would have you followed by a whole army of PI's if
they knew that their own "agent" was sitting on your lap all the time?
> Stacy and I have both written about the antics of the private
>investigators and OSA drones in LA earlier, so excuse me for not going into
>all the details again, but I will say this. Laura was supposed to meet me at
>my hotel for some hot sex late one night but she never showed up. Who did show
>up were two private investigators with another threatening letter from
>Scientology stating how they were going to sue me into the ground if I didn't
>stop associating with hostile attorneys. Can you imagine? Here I am, busy
>thinking I'm about to get laid on a hot steamy LA night and these goons show
>up. To say I was frustrated is an understatement, and I ended up kicking in
>the car door of the private investigator's SUV. He said he was going to blow
>my black nigger head off and I chased his dumb ass to the highway in my car.
>My little lover bunny Laura had disappeared and was out of touch. I left LA
>and flew to Minneapolis.
So you were "stood up", "let down", or whatever it's called in your
part of the world.
>After I had been in Minneapolis for a few days Laura called me. I was still
>upset with her and wanted nothing to do with her. As a matter of fact I told
>her she could listen in to me having sex with another woman if she wanted to
>but I had no time for her. I called Stacy and told her I was sure this girl
>was a plant but Stacy defended her. I was in the middle of moving from
>Minneapolis to Boulder and I didn't want anything to do with Laura. She called
>3-4 times a day to ask me what I was doing and who I was talking to and to
>tell me how worried she was about me. I did everything I could to blow her
>off. I told her the next time I wanted to see her face was with me looking
>down at her with my balls swinging from the tip of
>her lips. She acted like this excited her beyond belief and I must admit I
>then doubted how I felt about her.
You seem to have a "button" in common with Stephen Fishman.
>I finally arrived in Denver last August to give a deposition in the FACTNet
>copyright case and guess who shows up. Ol' lover bunny herself, Laura Terepin.
>The last thing on my mind at that time was sex as I had been being mentally
>abused for 10 hours a day by Sandy Rosen, Scientology's Earl Cooley
>replacement and El Ron look alike. On the way to my hotel room this gorgeous
>blonde woman with all the right stuff is trying to get into the room across
>the hall from my room. She starts a conversation and we decide to meet later
>at the bar. Well, that sure made me feel better! Later I go down to the bar
>and the blonde was not there but Laura sure was. I was still pissed off at her
>and I told her to her face that I thought she was a scientology plant. Oh boy,
>now she goes into how hurt she is that I would think such a thing, she cried
>and said she loved me, on and on. Then the blonde shows up so I don't have
>time to get into it that much with Laura as I was experiencing an extreme
>deficit of attention for her. Anyway, to make a long story short, me, the
>blond and Laura all end up going to my room after a few drinks.
>
>I've told this story before as well. Suffice to say, my "Danger, Jesse!
>Danger!" antenna would not be denied. I ended up getting rid of both Laura and
>the blonde that night and just went to sleep, as I had
>to be in court for a hearing and deposition early the next morning. As it
>turned out, the blonde was a hired whore Scientology tried to run in on me.
>he was there with her "brother," who happens to be the same private
>investigator that calls my family and friends representing himself as the
>Denver police. Lover bunny Laura was there as well, of course.
Please, *PLEASE* provide all the evidence you've got for this. I am
verry sorry, but I am not willing to take your personal "beliefs" for
granted. (And of course I will need the name and address of the hooker
they used...) ;-)
>During the course of the deposition I was asked who was present when I did my
>affidavit for FACTNet and Sandy Rosen would not give it a rest until he got me
>to admit Laura Terepin was there as well. I can only imagine he was testing me
>to see if I would lie under oath as he already knew Laura was there. This is a
>key point to understand the significance of what that means. Laura Terepin
>is/was a Scientology plant and I'll get into the details of that later. One of
>many mistakes Sandy Rosen made was to force me to admit Laura was present at
>Dan Leipold's office during my activities for the FACTnet case. Hey! Guess
>what! That is illegal and no one in the world could pay Laura to sue anyone for
>saying She is/was a plant as Scientology can't bear the scrutiny of the
>discovery process. Judge Kane won't have it.
I don't understand this. It is my understanding that someone is
present at your deposition, being either a "plant" or not. That same
someone is being denied the right to sue you for claiming she is a
"plant"? What exactly is "illegal" here?? And why???
>Again, Stacy and I were in disagreement about her being a plant but other
>people were starting to be convinced she was. Laura now wants to come to
>Vashon to visit Stacy. She said she was involved in copying CAN files because
>it looked like Scientology would gain possession of the files. Laura offered
>to help get the files copied at a secret location, but we all know what
>happened. Scientology lawyers somehow found out where the secret location was
>and brought a marshal in with a court order. Right after this disaster Laura
>comes to Vashon and she has to have her pot so I go running off to see if I
>can help her out. Well, I did manage to get a little bit which she enjoyed.
>The next day I had to leave for the east coast and was met by DEA agents who
>had apparently gotten a hot tip. Well, of course, they found nothing because
>there was nothing for them to find. Laura knew my destination and called to
>see if I arrived. I had told her I would bring whatever was left over from the
>pot I had with me. Can you imagine her despair when she found out I had
>arrived safely without incident? Wonder why Scientology puts out DA packs
>about me being a drug abuser? Remember the Scientology sacrament -- if there
>is no evidence, manufacture it.
We here in Holland tend to forget sometimes about the vigurous frenzy
of the DEA. But we are indeed glad to see inventive citizens of the US
avoid the hurdles. ;-) (And, No, I don't do no more "drugs", since
almost twelve -I think- years)
>After this little incident a private investigator was employed and I gave him
>as much information as I could about Laura. He came back with confirmation
>that not only did Laura live with a current Scientology staff member, she was
>making regular phone calls to a private investigator who works for David Lee
>who works for Gene Ingram.
NOW, we seem to be getting to the real beef. Here come some of my
questions:
- What confirmation did the PI give you?
- In what form? Was it on paper?
- Do you still have a copy?
- What exact reason is there to NOT publish this information?
Please note that in case that evidence would have been "illegally
obtained", I would be satisfied by your -or Bob's- "word for it". But
also note that I would be very annoyed if I would hear another word
about this, on that basis...
>I myself have run plants in on groups and people critical of Scientology and
>I've posted about this before. I apologize if the above information proved to
>be more reality than some can handle.
I can handle "reality". I can't handle "speculations". I can handle
"evidence". I'll decide for myself what I'll call "proof". Now there's
some "implicit communication" for ya.
>Fighting Scientology is serious business. People like Dennis Erlich, Lawrence
>Wollershim and Paulette Cooper know all to well the depth of criminality to
>which the cult will sink to prevent exposure.
Yep. And what you guys (is this a "factnet" "operation"?) are doing to
Laura seems similar to me.
>You want to talk to Laura about it? Here are her last known phone numbers:
>
>909-204-6040
>323-376-0506
Somebody will. (Not me, I've struggled long enough for my low
phonebill.)
>The last time I actually talked to Laura she was telling me there are things
>about Scientology that she agreed with and thought were good and sound
>principles. Specifically she mention the concept of "the greatest good for the
>greatest number". I listened to what she had to say and pointed out another view
>of this idea. The concept of the greatest good for the greatest number seems to
>make sense and even in some cases may be appropriate but it sure is contrary to
>our American constitution and the constitution of the majority of civilized
>countries. In America we believe and practice that each and every person has
>inalienable rights to freedom of speech, the right to privacy ?on and on. If a
>person of a different faith or culture happens to be in a place where the
>majority of the people disagree, if the majority then decides to do away with a
>person because he is different the majority runs to risk of being prosecuted to
>the full extent of the law. In some cases more does not automatically mean
>better. A rational analysis of the concept "the greatest good" in fact shows
>the concept itself has very limited use. However in Scientology it is touted as
>a basic wonderful discovery of Ron Hubbard. Laura was speechless when I gave
>her this argument and this was the last time we really talked.
This Laura should meet up with "Snorri". They might understand each
other.
>Looking back on why Laura seemed so odd in light of other information that came
>up about her it is clearer to me why and what was happening. Despite working
>under cover, Laura is still human. When you associate with people that you may
>dislike for an extended period of time a person develops feelings anyway. The
>business of being a spy or a plant is somewhat different than what Hollywood or
>TV portrays. I think Laura was/is being paid to provide information to an
>investigator who in turn reports to the Jerky Boys in OSA because that is the
>nature of the business. She was not reporting to Jerky boy Miscavage or Jerky
>boy Rinder because they have to keep distance between themselves and their
>criminal activities.
Are you suggesting that Laura may not even be aware about how she has
been (ab)used by OSA?
> Laura has feelings and I'm sure was confused about what she
>was doing and what the results of her actions were because that is how she would
>act. Another point is this, maybe Laura's cover story of what she was about was
>mostly true because it is hard to remember lies over and over but the truth
>comes natural. I am sure t she is disturbed and needs help. Laura will not be of
>much use to Scientology at this point and maybe this would be a good opportunity
>to get honest and straight with herself and those she associates with. If Laura
>wants to be honest and tell the truth I would be one of the first to applaud her
>for her courage and accept her as a friend. By her actions she was not able to
>do any real damage to me or my friends. The fact of the matter is she was having
>more fun in her association with critics of cults than not.
>
>I don't hate Laura, I don't hate anyone.
Of course nobody *hates* anyone. I don't anyway. But I do resent
people who don't tell the whole story. I don't mind people "spinning"
stories around their real life, even. As long as these stories keep
verifyable - to a certain degree.
What bothers me about this whole story is, that you (or "FACTnet" as
Bob said it so eloquently) seem to have uncovered this "plant". And
although Laura had worked for the "old CAN" for years, apparently,
nobody else had "spotted" her as a "plant". And you guys still haven't
convinced Cynthia, apparently.
You do realize what it means, if your claims turn out to be right,
don't you?
>Respectfully Submitted,
Respectfully or not: Submit your "evidence" to Cynthia Kisser
immediately. Do it NOW!!!
>Jesse Prince
Groeten,
Boudewijn, Kox.
"I guarantee you that isn't true," said Mike Rinder, a top official for Scientology
Cat O'Blivion
> Jesse,
> You should submit this to the Penthouse Forum letters, where it belongs.
*blink*
Dear gods, I actually agree with Gunbunny. Well, this certainly
is a turning point in my history on this newsgroup. It's also
the first time I've been absolutely revulsed by the behaviour
of critics towards those they perceive as their "enemies".
Jesse, for someone who "doesn't hate" Laura, you gave a very
convincing impression of it in that post.
I simply don't have the words to express the disappointment I
feel that Bob, and by association everyone at FACTNet, has
chosen to pursue this line of attack. These are the kinds
of tactics I've come to expect from our "pals" at OSA.
Which side are you guys on, anyway?
Cat
SP4, KoX
--
Stop the Spam on alt.religion.scientology - http://www.xenu.net
"I dare you, to be real, to touch a flickering flame..."
- Bauhaus -
Nancy Law
First, I am an ex-$cieno, who left the Toronto org before it burned down
and before any court cases....okay I've been away from the whole scene and
only have been on the net for about a year.
Observation: I don't know Laura....but one thing I do know as an ex-G.O.
member who didn't have much to do with the org...$cienos believe in the art
of 3rd party to the point of extremely evil character assassination,
especially OSA ops.
Each weekend for these past 4 weeks, there has been a person who has been
attacked in this group.
I want to read this group, I want to get familiar with who people are in
ars and I want to learn what's currently going on to stop $cientology and
Mscavige.
Yet, each weekend, I am looking at in-fighting in the group...and a
progressive build-up to it from about the previous Wednesday of each week.
It looks like a classic black PR strategy by Cof$.
Hey, I know I'm new here and I have been away from anything to do with
$cientology and didn't even know about ars until I was a contributor to the
AOL ars about a year or a year and a half ago (as a result of this, I
recently saw my name on a list of persons and organizations who are blocked
by $cien's net nanny).
If I'm out of line, there is no intention to be.....BUT, doesn't it make
you pause and think of where you first heard accusations about an ars
person's integrity?
It's just that it appears to look like classic old G.O. (OSA) tactical
crap.
If there's any chance I'm right, I know they're very, very happy.
Rap my knuckles(sp?) if I'm out of line.
Here ends my first post to ars.
JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990120233017...@ng98.aol.com>...
Tilman Hausherr
(tall...@storm.ca) wrote:
>This *is* sarcasm, right?
See it this way: if Laura is really hired by OSA, then Jesse did the
juiciest exposure of a plant in "church history". That will teach them a
lesson.
Tilman Hausherr
wrote:
>True. But then again, a.r.s. is open to everyone. Laura,
>please, what's your side of the story?
maybe "I was just following orders".
Keith Henson
snip
: Again, I apologize for the way out of character way I presented the
: information about Laura Terepin. In future, if I report again I will
: report as I have in the past. Just the facts.
Jesse, it turned out that Bob's original post on "Laura Terepin" caused
some interesting information to flow my way from someone whoes maiden name
was Laura Terepin. It turns out that she reads ars because she lost a
very dear friend to the cult many years ago. This person says the name
with this spelling is unusual to the point that she can account for all of
those who show up on listings in the US as relatives.
Now, it is *possible* that there is another with the same first and last
names, heck, there is a gay porn star with *my* name. (There are some
dozens of K Hensons.)
But there is a scientology connection which made my corespondent wonder
if the "Laura Terepin" Bob had investigated was using her name.
It seems that her ex-friend, the one she lost to Co$ way back when, is
pretty high up in the Chicago org these days.
It seemed to her just too much of a coincidence that someone picked this
name, and its unusual spelling, out of thin air. She wondered if her
ex-friend--Carla Nelson was her maiden name--is either using this name
herself, or whether she has given it out for someone else to use...
Carla, with her open connection to scn, seems unlikely to have worked for
CAN. But in any case, the former Laura Terepin (whoes phone number shows
up on the search engines) is not the "Laura Terepin" (?) you experienced.
Keith Henson
Keith Henson
snip
: I am having a great deal of trouble with all of this , Bob. You seem to
: be privy to information that I know nothing of. You and the others seem
: to know a different person than I know.
I know the kind of shock you must be feeling in a *tiny* degree. I got
scamed by someone (most likely from OSA) claiming to be a Southwest
Airline agent on the phone over a year ago. I can't scale what you will
feel if the reports turn out to be substantially true.
: It may be the best thing if I just withdraw from all of this.
: Jim Beebe
Not too far Jim, you are a highly respected person. It is watch and wait
time, though if anyone wants, there are many things we could do to
investigate. Keith Henson
Bernie
wrote:
>In article <36c7efc5...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>Bernie <ma...@bernie.us-inc.com> wrote:
>>Not a *SINGLE* evidence but a load of *TRULY* disgusting invasion of privacy,
>>conjectures, and paranoid assumptions.
>
>No, it's evidence. He is testifying to first-person experience. That is,
>indeed, evidence. Some of it is clearly verifiable or refutable with
>third parties, some of it not. But it's still evidence either way.
Hmm... You may have a point here (I always thought "evidence" was
synonymous of "proof"). However his evidences are in no way
convincing. I see nothing in there that proves that Laura was a plant.
I should have written "not a single proof".
Zenon Panoussis
Keith Henson skrev:
>
> But there is a scientology connection which made my corespondent wonder
> if the "Laura Terepin" Bob had investigated was using her name.
>
> It seems that her ex-friend, the one she lost to Co$ way back when, is
> pretty high up in the Chicago org these days.
>
> It seemed to her just too much of a coincidence that someone picked this
> name, and its unusual spelling, out of thin air. She wondered if her
> ex-friend--Carla Nelson was her maiden name--is either using this name
> herself, or whether she has given it out for someone else to use...
If Bob posted a picture of "his" Laura Terepin in abs
(propagation is disastrously slow here) this should be
easy to clear.
EldonB123
it? In actuality, the various web sites are a great place to look for actual
news and information. They can provide you with weeks of revelation.
However, on ARS, you have take just about everything with a grain of salt and
a sense of humor. That, in my opinion, is part of its charm.
> It's just that it appears to look like classic old G.O. (OSA) tactical
>crap.
>
>If there's any chance I'm right, I know they're very, very happy.
>
>Rap my knuckles(sp?) if I'm out of line.
>
William Barwell
>
>
>Not a *SINGLE* evidence but a load of *TRULY* disgusting invasion of privacy,
>conjectures, and paranoid assumptions.
All evidence. The woman was a plant and was always there when
plans were discussed, after which the PIs swarmed. So who did tip 'em
off, Bernie?
If it wasn't da whore, who was.
Hot sex, and she got paid for it.
Yes, a whore.
>
>Is *that* the stupendous "revelations" you expect critical people to swallow and
>all of a sudden be in awe on how you Mintonians right were?
>
And who is going to swallow Bernie the clown's ignorant, braying
assertions?
>This really reveals *MUCH* more about *YOU* than it does about Laura.
>
>Go away.
Har! What a clueless git.
Well, back into my kill file with Koos and Rob.cypher and other time
wasters, clueless-boy.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
William Barwell
James J. Lippard <lip...@primenet.com> wrote:
>In article <785mas$l...@netaxs.com>, Rod Keller <rke...@netaxs.com> wrote:
>>Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net (hel...@online.no) wrote:
>>: I must admit I'm a bit puzzled, and when the feeling of
>>: embarrasment after Jesses post was mostly gone I do have
>>: a little bad taste in my mouth. I got no doubt the cult
>>: has tried at least stunts like this on Stacy, Bob and
>>: Jesse, but I'm also wondering if they wouldn't have
>>: arranged it better.
>>
>>Yes, embarrassment is about right. I can only explain it to myself that
>>Jesse feels a tremendous amount of anger and pain at having been tricked,
>>and is dumping everything that Scientology knows about him to us all.
>
>That's a good move, in my opinion.
>
>If you don't have secrets, then their revelation can't be used as a weapon
>against you.
I would be VERY pissed if a bitch like this had set me up for
a drug bust, like Terepin tried to do to Jesse.
William Barwell
Deana Marie Holmes <mir...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:04:30 GMT, b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
>
>
>So where's your evidence, Bob?
>
>Or is it the "spectral evidence" that the young girls of Salem used to
>convict their enemies of witchcraft?
*Plonk!*
William Barwell
Rebecca Hartong <har...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>Jesse Prince wrote in message <785bih$ku$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
>
>
>
>Ha! I don't think you know the meaning of the word. For whom, precisely,
>were you supposedly showing respect? Certainly not for Laura Terepin. You
>took every opportunity to insult her in this post. And certainly not for
>the critics on a.r.s., most of whom are quite capable of seeing through your
>ad hominem, circular arguments, and self-aggrandizement.
Read his second post. This bitch tried to set him up for a drug bust.
I'd be pissed too. I'd be very insulting, myself and worse.
While teh bitch was begging Jesse to find her some weed, she was
yelling OSA who was tipping off the cops who stopped Jesse, who lucked out
and happened to not have any.
Sic her, Jesse. You could have been sitting in a jail cell because of
this 'friend' of yours.
I'd be pissed too.
Tommy
>
> Hi, I'm a newbie to the group. I've been reading it for about 4 weeks.
>
Welcome, Nancy!
> First, I am an ex-$cieno, who left the Toronto org before it burned down
> and before any court cases....okay I've been away from the whole scene and
> only have been on the net for about a year.
>
> Observation: I don't know Laura....but one thing I do know as an ex-G.O.
> member who didn't have much to do with the org...$cienos believe in the art
> of 3rd party to the point of extremely evil character assassination,
> especially OSA ops.
Ex GO? The stories you could tell about the old days (and hopefully
will).....
>
> Each weekend for these past 4 weeks, there has been a person who has been
> attacked in this group.
>
> I want to read this group, I want to get familiar with who people are in
> ars and I want to learn what's currently going on to stop $cientology and
> Mscavige.
You'll be all too familiar with the group before too long. :-)
>
> Yet, each weekend, I am looking at in-fighting in the group...and a
> progressive build-up to it from about the previous Wednesday of each week.
True enough - this has been a bad month so far. People are on edge.
Many are irritated by the continuing spamstorm. Not because it
inconveniences regulars, but because it renders the group almost
unreadable to the new reader. And the good thing about this NG, IMHO, is
that it disseminates info about the cult of greed and power to people
who otherwise would buy the Shore Story and consider $cn a eccentric,
but harmless religion. It's nice to have regulars to talk with and
bounce tactical ideas off, but new readers/posters are the lifeblood of
the group.
>
> It looks like a classic black PR strategy by Cof$.
Doesn't it just?
>
> Hey, I know I'm new here and I have been away from anything to do with
> $cientology and didn't even know about ars until I was a contributor to the
> AOL ars about a year or a year and a half ago (as a result of this, I
> recently saw my name on a list of persons and organizations who are blocked
> by $cien's net nanny).
>
> If I'm out of line, there is no intention to be.....BUT, doesn't it make
> you pause and think of where you first heard accusations about an ars
> person's integrity?
There is no out of line on a USENET newsgroup - just differing shades of
tolerance.
>
> It's just that it appears to look like classic old G.O. (OSA) tactical
> crap.
>
> If there's any chance I'm right, I know they're very, very happy.
I'm afraid you are right. There seem to be two basic factions here
lately. I personally belong to neither. Bob Minton made a flamboyant
entrance to the group, and has resources many critics do not. By showing
$cientology that he is prepared to take the fight to them, he has
willingly made himself a target. That being said, his postings to this
group have been seen as condenscending and self-serving by some, who
have been resisting the cult for a long time. I won't even bring up the
"Dorian" thing. :-) They regard him as an upstart, and some may even
envy his monetarily-fueled ability to beat DM at the PR game. I
personally try to stay out of such squabbles, as they aid and abet the
OSA.
>
> Rap my knuckles(sp?) if I'm out of line.
>
> Here ends my first post to ars.
>
Hopefully not the last. Thanks for providing a fresh veiwpoint.
Tommy
--
'I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys.'
Hubbard, 1967 letter to his wife submitted to the court in the
Armstrong
case, authenticity unchallenged by LRH/CoS lawyers
Rob Clark
>While I stand behind the raw information I release about Laura Terepin I am also
>deeply ashamed of the way I presented it and for this I apologize. The anger I
>was feeling about another betrayal came out wrong and clouded the real issue at
>hand. The fact of the matter is this is what Scientology does and how it acts. I
>have/am trying to disassociate myself from practicing Scientology in anyway.
thank you. i still disagree with these conclusions fiercely, but i respect your
apology. (this is a problem a lot of ex-scientologists have had, but they are
few who have been so quick to apologize.)
rob
Rob Clark
>In article <36a6bba1...@192.108.254.003>, ?@?.com wrote:
>> Jesse,
>> You should submit this to the Penthouse Forum letters, where it belongs.
>I simply don't have the words to express the disappointment I
>feel that Bob, and by association everyone at FACTNet, has
>chosen to pursue this line of attack. These are the kinds
>of tactics I've come to expect from our "pals" at OSA.
>Which side are you guys on, anyway?
it may have gotten lost in the spam, but in this thread jesse has apologized
sincerely for the manner he wrote that post in, claiming extreme anger at the
time he wrote it, and apologized for using OSA-like tactics, which he does not
want to slip into again.
rob
Deana Marie Holmes
Barwell) wrote:
>In article <36a6a92a...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>Deana Marie Holmes <mir...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:04:30 GMT, b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
>>
>>
>>So where's your evidence, Bob?
>>
>>Or is it the "spectral evidence" that the young girls of Salem used to
>>convict their enemies of witchcraft?
>
>
>
>*Plonk!*
Why do you hate me for telling the truth? All I've seen is "spectral
evidence."
Deana Marie Holmes
Hausherr) wrote:
>In <36A6B8B8...@xs4all.nl>, Zenon Panoussis <ora...@xs4all.nl>
>wrote:
>
>>True. But then again, a.r.s. is open to everyone. Laura,
>>please, what's your side of the story?
>
>maybe "I was just following orders".
Will you JUST STOP IT, Tilman?
This woman has been beaten up enough, FACTNet's now sponsoring Jesse
Prince's pornography cum "evidence", and you expect her to talk?
Rebecca Hartong
William Barwell wrote in message <787661$k58$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>...
>In article <785loa$5...@enews3.newsguy.com>,
>Rebecca Hartong <har...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>Jesse Prince wrote in message <785bih$ku$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
>>
>>>Respectfully Submitted,
>>
>>Ha! I don't think you know the meaning of the word. For whom, precisely,
>>were you supposedly showing respect? Certainly not for Laura Terepin.
You
>>took every opportunity to insult her in this post. And certainly not for
>>the critics on a.r.s., most of whom are quite capable of seeing through
your
>>ad hominem, circular arguments, and self-aggrandizement.
>
>Read his second post. This bitch tried to set him up for a drug bust.
I have read it. The only evidence he supplies for any of this is his word.
Jesse Prince's word is worth nothing to me. You may feel you know him well
enough to simply take his word on this, but I do not. For that matter--
even if all of Jesse Prince's accusations regarding Laura Terepin were true,
there would still be no justification for the tone of his post, as far as
I'm concerned. The sort of personal attack Prince waged on Laura Terepin is
precisely one of the things I dislike about some Scientologists who post on
a.r.s.
>I'd be pissed too. I'd be very insulting, myself and worse.
I wouldn't be surprised. Of course, all the insults in the world don't
prove that what he's saying is true. In fact, they rather serve to obscure
his message-- assuming, that is, that his intended message was simply to
tell us that he thinks Laura Terepin works for the church of Scientology.
>While teh bitch was begging Jesse to find her some weed, she was
>yelling OSA who was tipping off the cops who stopped Jesse, who lucked out
>and happened to not have any.
The only evidence Prince has supplied that ANY of this actually occured is
his word. That's not good enough for me. If it's good enough for you--
fine.
(Say... I've got some beautiful vacation property for sale in
Florida--cheap! But you have to send me your payment for it RIGHT NOW. You
won't have time to check it out first. Now, you're probably not stupid
enough to fall for that kind of scam, are you? Then why would you be so
willing to hand over your belief in this story from Prince without first
checking it out?)
>Sic her, Jesse. You could have been sitting in a jail cell because of
>this 'friend' of yours.
So he says.
>I'd be pissed too.
If it ever happens to you, I hope you provide evidence that's a bit more
concrete than just a sad story and a bunch of ad hominem. Stories like this
one from Prince only serve to reduce my confidence in his reliability as a
critic of Scientology. Now, he may doesn't care about that, but he probably
should. There are a whole lot of people who read a.r.s. who aren't all that
different from me and many of them would be useful allies. Oh sure, he
apologized..sorta..kinda... but I have to wonder whether he would made his
second post if so many a.r.s. regulars hadn't expressed their dismay with
his first post.
Mike O'Connor
[...]
> All I've seen is "spectral evidence."
[...]
What, to you, would be satisfying evidence?
--
Mike O'Connor - lep...@panix.com
<http://www.panix.com/~lepton/>
James J. Lippard
Bernie <ma...@bernie.us-inc.com> wrote:
>On 21 Jan 1999 01:13:03 GMT lip...@primenet.com (James J. Lippard)
>wrote:
>
>>Bernie <ma...@bernie.us-inc.com> wrote:
>
>>>Not a *SINGLE* evidence but a load of *TRULY* disgusting invasion of privacy,
>>>conjectures, and paranoid assumptions.
>>
>>indeed, evidence. Some of it is clearly verifiable or refutable with
>>third parties, some of it not. But it's still evidence either way.
>
>Hmm... You may have a point here (I always thought "evidence" was
>synonymous of "proof"). However his evidences are in no way
No, "evidence" is weaker than "proof." "Proof" entails that the thing
being proved is true, while you can have mere "evidence" of something that
isn't true.
>convincing. I see nothing in there that proves that Laura was a plant.
>I should have written "not a single proof".
That I'd agree with.
--
Jim Lippard lippard@(primenet.com discord.org ediacara.org)
Phoenix, Arizona http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/
PGP Fingerprint: B130 7BE1 18C1 AA4C 4D51 388F 6E6D 2C7A 36D3 CB4F
Ishmael
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:49:09 GMT, jes...@gte.net (Jesse Prince) wrote
thusly:
[posted & mailed]
}
}
}Who or What is Laura Terepin?
[...]
I am amazed anew at the variety of reactions to Jesse's story. Many
elements of his account struck me as sardonically humorous. I even
sent him email thanking him for the post and congratulating him on
maintaining his sense of humor.
After reading his follow-up to this thread I'm thinking that perhaps
my interpretation was simplistic--I haven't lived it, so maybe I
didn't get it. If so then I apologize to you, Jesse.
For those who have condemned Jesse for his candor consider this: This
was not a story that he wanted to tell for a lot of obvious reasons,
but (and for lack of a better phrase) the shit has hit the fan.
Consider his situation and all the ramifications that are incumbent
therein.
Perhaps we should all try to see the humor here, however bitter and
sardonic. I see this unfolding saga as an object lesson. I see the
information as more important than the style in which it's presented.
If innocent people have been hurt in some way I doubt that it's been
intentional. I have no reason to believe that Bob or Jesse have lied.
It sounds to me like truth that is often far stranger than fiction.
<philosophy>
There will always be those who wail and lament when others misbehave.
They beat their chests in anguish over the wrongs perpetrated by those
less holy, less devout, less chaste, less deserving. Many are gripped
by such misery because they have forgotten that we are all of us
travelling a continuum toward some largely unknown destination. What
we see now is a mere twitch of the cosmic eyelash, not even a blink;
and this too shall pass.
</philosophy>
Ishmael
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**************** Meet me in Clearwater, December 5th, 1999. ****************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Doubts of all things earthly, and intuitions of some things heavenly; this
combination makes neither believer nor infidel, but makes a man who regards
them both with equal eye.--Herman Melville
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.offlines.org/my_essay.html
Rob Clark
>In article <36a92e54...@enews.newsguy.com>, mir...@newsguy.com wrote:
>[...]
>> All I've seen is "spectral evidence."
>[...]
>What, to you, would be satisfying evidence?
to decide whether or not evidence is satisfying, i'd have to see a SINGLE speck
of material evidence first.
rob
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
wrote:
>For those who have condemned Jesse for his candor consider this: This
>was not a story that he wanted to tell for a lot of obvious reasons,
>but (and for lack of a better phrase) the shit has hit the fan.
>Consider his situation and all the ramifications that are incumbent
>therein.
It is sad it is so, but if the cult knows all this already
it was tactically right by Jesse to tell it first. The sad
part is that ones personal life will very likely become
public knowledge if you become an outspoken critic of CoS.
Let's do what we can to outsmart the cult by keep having
better tactics and methods.
Best wishes, SP4 & Adm. TOXE CXI
Andreas Heldal-Lund, Normannsgaten 9, N-4013 Stavanger, Norway
Pho: +47 88 00 66 66 Fax: 90 32 35 46 E-mail: hel...@online.no
home.sol.no/~spirous www.xenu.net www.hedning.no/hedning
---------------------------------------------------------------
"The great snare of thought is uncritical acceptance of
irrational assumptions." - Will Durant
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Glue
Ummm...thanks for your responses. I think.
the lisa who is neither lesbian nor Orthodox
--
Our lives begin to end the day we are silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Valerie Emanuel
>
> In <36A6B8B8...@xs4all.nl>, Zenon Panoussis <ora...@xs4all.nl>
> wrote:
>
> >True. But then again, a.r.s. is open to everyone. Laura,
> >please, what's your side of the story?
>
> maybe "I was just following orders".
Well, that worked for Ollie North!
Valerie
Cat O'Blivion
Clark) wrote:
> it may have gotten lost in the spam, but in this thread jesse has apologized
> sincerely for the manner he wrote that post in, claiming extreme anger at the
> time he wrote it, and apologized for using OSA-like tactics, which he does not
> want to slip into again.
Then I sincerely hope he cancels it. At any rate, the damage
is done - he may want to consider thinking before he hits the
'send' key in the future.
Y'know, I'm really bothered by the rising tide of misogyny in this
and all the other LT threads. Minton calls her a 'whore. Barwell
calls her a 'bitch'. Jesse Prince puts her sex life on lurid
display in an apparent fit of pique.
And still, we have seen nothing other than allegations by
Minton and his inner circle that LT has done anything to deserve
the hatred being flung her way.
If Minton chooses not to share the evidence with the group at
large that's his issue, but the least he could do is share it
with Cynthia Kisser, a credible third party who also seems to
have a stake in this. If he could convince Cynthia, I would
be content to let the matter rest, and only harangue people
about the sexist/sexual slurs, which IMHO, are not called for.
Cat
SP4, KoX
--
Stop the Spam on alt.religion.scientology - http://www.xenu.net
"I dare you, to be real, to touch a flickering flame..."
- Bauhaus -
Tilman Hausherr
Marie Holmes) wrote:
>>>True. But then again, a.r.s. is open to everyone. Laura,
>>>please, what's your side of the story?
>>
>>maybe "I was just following orders".
>
>Will you JUST STOP IT, Tilman?
Why? Last time I looked, you were not the ruler of the universe.
>This woman has been beaten up enough, FACTNet's now sponsoring Jesse
>Prince's pornography cum "evidence", and you expect her to talk?
If she is innocent she would have all reason to do so, and it would be
easy. It would even put the pressure on Bob.
Tilman
mom...@my-dejanews.com
jes...@gte.net wrote:
>
>
> I have a few additional comments to make in retrospect to the information I
> posted earlier. This is mostly in response to valid criticism I have received
> concerning the information I provided.
Some of us find that writing a message and letting it sit for a few hours
while our perspective returns is a prudent thing to do. I, for one, have
learned this the hard way on ARS, and admit that when it comes to a really
hot subject, like my daughter d/a ing me, I lose it. So, I understand what
happened here. Your apology is nicely done and I am very willing to accept it
and put the matter of your extremely distasteful post behind me. I feel that
it serves no purpose other than exercising a desire to make you wrong to
continue to worry it.
jana
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Steve Zadarnowski
>Who or What is Laura Terepin?
>Stacy told me that Laura had worked in the Cult Awareness Network with Cynthia
>Kisser. At this time CAN was now defunct, having been sued into the ground by
>Scientology and individual Scientologists. Of all the people I had met, Laura
>seemed very odd and out of place. Specifically, she told me she was not
>employed, nor had she ever been. Laura seemed to come and go as she pleased,
>flying here and there just to be with Stacy and others who were involved in
>legal cases against Scientology. Laura worked on organizing files for CAN and
>offered her services to Dan Leipold to help me with an affidavit for the
>FACTNet case. Laura refused any money for her work and made it clear she did
>not want to be seen in any court case or in any pictures.
That won't save her from being subpoena'd - if you can find her again.
S
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
>On 18 Jan 1999 09:35:37 PST, cog...@pop3.concentric.net wrote:
>
>> What an insane message. Why fix something that isn't
>>broken?
>
>In the case of male circumcision (as opposed to so-called female
>circumcision) there may possibly be a reason to "fix something
>that isn't broken."
>
>Do you do routine maintenance on your car before it needs it, or
>do you wait until it breaks down? Do you go to the dentist for
>routine prophylaxis, or do you wait until you have an abscess to
>get dental work done? Do you go to the doctor for physicals, or
>do you only go when you are sick? Would you have your children
>immunized, or would you wait until they are ill, and then have
>them treated?
If we're going to use such analogies, let's try to agree upon a few minimal
standards for defining what is analogous to circumcision. You've left out
two of the most important issues to those who oppose routine infant
circumcision. Do you know of any other *surgery* that is routinely performed
on *someone else's* body when that person's body is free from disease - ie.
no remedial rather than potential prophlactic benefit from the surgery? I
can't think of a single surgery that is performed on minors in the absence
of any medical complaint.
Your questions above are not relevant to the specific complaints many people
have about circumcision. For many people who oppose RIC, it is not a
question of whether preventative medicine and forward thinking are good
ideas (most agree that they are), but where to draw the line regarding a
doctor's or parent's right to perform surgery. The AAP concludes that there
is no absolute medical indication for neonatal circumcision, but gives tacit
approval to perforrming the surgery for "social" considerations. Many people
find this ethically repugnant. If you do not, that's your business, but you
might at least refrain from watering down other people's reasonable
objections by drawing analogies with procedures that are not *surgical*
procedures performed on children.
JimDBB
>From: ishma...@yahoo.com (Ishmael)
>I am amazed anew at the variety of reactions to Jesse's story. Many
>elements of his account struck me as sardonically humorous. I even
>sent him email thanking him for the post and congratulating him on
>maintaining his sense of humor.
>
Somehow , I missed the humor in Prince's attack.
>For those who have condemned Jesse for his candor consider this: This
>was not a story that he wanted to tell for a lot of obvious reasons,
>but (and for lack of a better phrase) the shit has hit the fan.
>Consider his situation and all the ramifications that are incumbent
>therein.
This is really sad. There is not one gram of consideration in Ishmael's post
for this person who has been so savegely attacked.
JImDBB
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
Barb
You took us farther into Laura than I wanted to go.
I see a distinct parallel with the off-putting reference by Sceinos to
you as having a large sexual organ.
Piffle.
If indeed you DID post this and it's not a plant, why do you think this
woman's sexual experience/core temperature has aught to do with
anything? Silly git! (if it was you)
barb
Jesse Prince wrote:
>
> Who or What is Laura Terepin?
>
> As many of you well know, last July, Stacy Young and I got together as old
> friends from Scientology and started working together to expose the abuse and
> deception one is likely to experience in the cult of Scientology.
>
> I flew to LA to meet with attorney Dan Leipold to see if there was anything I
> could do to help FACTNet with a copyright suit filed by Scientology against
> FACTNet. During this time Stacy introduced me to many people, but this is
> about a special person she introduced me to. A woman by the name of Laura
> Terepin.
>
> Stacy told me that Laura had worked in the Cult Awareness Network with Cynthia
> Kisser. At this time CAN was now defunct, having been sued into the ground by
> Scientology and individual Scientologists. Of all the people I had met, Laura
> seemed very odd and out of place. Specifically, she told me she was not
> employed, nor had she ever been. Laura seemed to come and go as she pleased,
> flying here and there just to be with Stacy and others who were involved in
> legal cases against Scientology. Laura worked on organizing files for CAN and
> offered her services to Dan Leipold to help me with an affidavit for the
> FACTNet case. Laura refused any money for her work and made it clear she did
> not want to be seen in any court case or in any pictures.
>
> She explained this away by saying her uncle would not approve. According to
> Laura, her uncle was extremely wealthy and gave her all the financial support
> she needed. Laura said her uncle was heavily into the Mafia and organized
> crime. She also implied this same uncle physically and sexually abused her.
> She told me she was an adopted child and her parents ignored her most of the
> time, sending her off to camp and private school. She told me a pitiful story
> about how her same sex French teacher sexually abused her, which is why she
> was a lesbian now. However, in the same breath she said she had met a man
> named Kryle, whom she recently had sex with and she was now not so sure she
> wanted to remain a lesbian.
>
> Laura was quite obsessed with following me and knowing where I was and what my
> plans were during the entire time I was in LA. She came off like she really
> cared about me and was so worried about me all the time, yet I hardly knew her
> at all. This went on and on and I talked to Stacy about it. I told Stacy that I
> thought Laura was a plant and that she was very weird. Laura loved to smoke
> pot and we smoked some together a couple of times during my trip to LA. Now I
> will give you the specific instances that made me suspect her.
>
> After hearing the history of Laura we became somewhat intimate. This in itself
> was a bit of a shock as when I touched her in intimate places it was like
> reaching into a deep freezer and grabbing a frozen cat fish. But to hear her
> moans and groans you would had thought she was seriously hot and bothered.
> Looking deep into her dark pretty eyes betrayed the hidden frozen cat fish,
> i.e. there was no emotion there, it was all an act. I began to lose interest
> in her as a sexual partner, although we still carried on a bit.
>
> Stacy and I took Laura with us to visit a mutual friend whom I am keeping
> anonymous out of respect.
> This friend and I became friends while in the cult and our friendship survived
> the cult. Well, Laura
> just loves to smoke pot and had to have some so there we were. My friend
> immediately suspected her as a plant because the friend didn't know her and had
> neverheard of her before. Again the history she gave of herself just didn't seem
> to add up. She told my friend of her involvement with CAN and she added that she
> found it difficult to work at CAN at times because she felt her boss Cynthia
> Kisser was trying to have a sexual relationship with her and this confused
> her. She also said she was ordered to go to Wellspring because of her odd
> behavior with meditation and such, but she didn't like it and never finished
> the program. She is a seductive woman and got right down to flirting with
> my friend, telling the friend what a great person the friend was, etc., etc. Now
> she had my friend going and my friend offered to let her spend the night at my
> friends place. She declined but said she wanted to stay in contact with my
> friend. Later on that night my friend came to me and said there was something
> odd about her and my friend was concerned that Stacy and I had just brought her
> to the house without first letting my friend know she was coming.
>
> All the while, private investigators seem to have a magical way of predicting
> our every move at any given moment.
>
> Stacy and I then stayed at the house of another mutual friend and Laura stayed
> there as well. I am not mentioning who the mutual friend was by request of the
> friend. The friend spoke to me later after spending some time with Laura and
> told me something was very odd about Laura. Laura had told the friend (whom
> she had just met that day) the sexual abuse story, the criminal uncle … on and
> on. A person that was at the friend's house told the friend they thought Laura
> was a plant as her behavior was just too odd.
>
> The next day I met with Dan for the first time, and yes, Laura was there. She
> told Dan she would help him organize the files for the FACTNet case and she
> would also type an affidavit for me. The next day Dan's office is swarming
> with private investigator and OSA drones trying to deliver a letter to me. I
> posted one of the letters just recently. It was from Elliot Abelson. I don't
> have the letter to hand but paraphrased it said he understood I was meeting
> with lawyers who were involved in litigation against Scientology. How in the
> hell did he know this? At this point I had not written any affidavits or given
> any testimony against Scientology in any way. There were so many private
> investigators following me that when I drove down the street it seemed like I
> was the grand master of a car parade! The whole time I'm with my lover bunny
> Laura Terepin. Stacy and I have both written about the antics of the private
> investigators and OSA drones in LA earlier, so excuse me for not going into
> all the details again, but I will say this. Laura was supposed to meet me at
> my hotel for some hot sex late one night but she never showed up. Who did show
> up were two private investigators with another threatening letter from
> Scientology stating how they were going to sue me into the ground if I didn't
> stop associating with hostile attorneys. Can you imagine? Here I am, busy
> thinking I'm about to get laid on a hot steamy LA night and these goons show
> up. To say I was frustrated is an understatement, and I ended up kicking in
> the car door of the private investigator's SUV. He said he was going to blow
> my black nigger head off and I chased his dumb ass to the highway in my car.
> My little lover bunny Laura had disappeared and was out of touch. I left LA
> and flew to Minneapolis.
>
> After I had been in Minneapolis for a few days Laura called me. I was still
> upset with her and wanted nothing to do with her. As a matter of fact I told
> her she could listen in to me having sex with another woman if she wanted to
> but I had no time for her. I called Stacy and told her I was sure this girl
> was a plant but Stacy defended her. I was in the middle of moving from
> Minneapolis to Boulder and I didn't want anything to do with Laura. She called
> 3-4 times a day to ask me what I was doing and who I was talking to and to
> tell me how worried she was about me. I did everything I could to blow her
> off. I told her the next time I wanted to see her face was with me looking
> down at her with my balls swinging from the tip of
> her lips. She acted like this excited her beyond belief and I must admit I
> then doubted how I felt about her.
>
> I finally arrived in Denver last August to give a deposition in the FACTNet
> copyright case and guess who shows up. Ol' lover bunny herself, Laura Terepin.
> The last thing on my mind at that time was sex as I had been being mentally
> abused for 10 hours a day by Sandy Rosen, Scientology's Earl Cooley
> replacement and El Ron look alike. On the way to my hotel room this gorgeous
> blonde woman with all the right stuff is trying to get into the room across
> the hall from my room. She starts a conversation and we decide to meet later
> at the bar. Well, that sure made me feel better! Later I go down to the bar
> and the blonde was not there but Laura sure was. I was still pissed off at her
> and I told her to her face that I thought she was a scientology plant. Oh boy,
> now she goes into how hurt she is that I would think such a thing, she cried
> and said she loved me, on and on. Then the blonde shows up so I don't have
> time to get into it that much with Laura as I was experiencing an extreme
> deficit of attention for her. Anyway, to make a long story short, me, the
> blond and Laura all end up going to my room after a few drinks.
>
> I've told this story before as well. Suffice to say, my "Danger, Jesse!
> Danger!" antenna would not be denied. I ended up getting rid of both Laura and
> the blonde that night and just went to sleep, as I had
> to be in court for a hearing and deposition early the next morning. As it
> turned out, the blonde was a hired whore Scientology tried to run in on me.
> She was there with her "brother," who happens to be the same private
> investigator that calls my family and friends representing himself as the
> Denver police. Lover bunny Laura was there as well, of course.
>
> During the course of the deposition I was asked who was present when I did my
> affidavit for FACTNet and Sandy Rosen would not give it a rest until he got me
> to admit Laura Terepin was there as well. I can only imagine he was testing me
> to see if I would lie under oath as he already knew Laura was there. This is a
> key point to understand the significance of what that means. Laura Terepin
> is/was a Scientology plant and I'll get into the details of that later. One of
> many mistakes Sandy Rosen made was to force me to admit Laura was present at
> Dan Leipold's office during my activities for the FACTnet case. Hey! Guess
> what! That is illegal and no one in the world could pay Laura to sue anyone for
> saying She is/was a plant as Scientology can't bear the scrutiny of the
> discovery process. Judge Kane won't have it.
>
> Again, Stacy and I were in disagreement about her being a plant but other
> people were starting to be convinced she was. Laura now wants to come to
> Vashon to visit Stacy. She said she was involved in copying CAN files because
> it looked like Scientology would gain possession of the files. Laura offered
> to help get the files copied at a secret location, but we all know what
> happened. Scientology lawyers somehow found out where the secret location was
> and brought a marshal in with a court order. Right after this disaster Laura
> comes to Vashon and she has to have her pot so I go running off to see if I
> can help her out. Well, I did manage to get a little bit which she enjoyed.
> The next day I had to leave for the east coast and was met by DEA agents who
> had apparently gotten a hot tip. Well, of course, they found nothing because
> there was nothing for them to find. Laura knew my destination and called to
> see if I arrived. I had told her I would bring whatever was left over from the
> pot I had with me. Can you imagine her despair when she found out I had
> arrived safely without incident? Wonder why Scientology puts out DA packs
> about me being a drug abuser? Remember the Scientology sacrament -- if there
> is no evidence, manufacture it.
>
> After this little incident a private investigator was employed and I gave him
> as much information as I could about Laura. He came back with confirmation
> that not only did Laura live with a current Scientology staff member, she was
> making regular phone calls to a private investigator who works for David Lee
> who works for Gene Ingram.
>
> I myself have run plants in on groups and people critical of Scientology and
> I've posted about this before. I apologize if the above information proved to
> be more reality than some can handle.
>
> Fighting Scientology is serious business. People like Dennis Erlich, Lawrence
> Wollershim and Paulette Cooper know all to well the depth of criminality to
> which the cult will sink to prevent exposure.
>
> You want to talk to Laura about it? Here are her last known phone numbers:
>
> 909-204-6040
> 323-376-0506
>
> The last time I actually talked to Laura she was telling me there are things
> about Scientology that she agreed with and thought were good and sound
> principles. Specifically she mention the concept of "the greatest good for the
> greatest number". I listened to what she had to say and pointed out another view
> of this idea. The concept of the greatest good for the greatest number seems to
> make sense and even in some cases may be appropriate but it sure is contrary to
> our American constitution and the constitution of the majority of civilized
> countries. In America we believe and practice that each and every person has
> inalienable rights to freedom of speech, the right to privacy …on and on. If a
> person of a different faith or culture happens to be in a place where the
> majority of the people disagree, if the majority then decides to do away with a
> person because he is different the majority runs to risk of being prosecuted to
> the full extent of the law. In some cases more does not automatically mean
> better. A rational analysis of the concept "the greatest good" in fact shows
> the concept itself has very limited use. However in Scientology it is touted as
> a basic wonderful discovery of Ron Hubbard. Laura was speechless when I gave
> her this argument and this was the last time we really talked.
>
> Looking back on why Laura seemed so odd in light of other information that came
> up about her it is clearer to me why and what was happening. Despite working
> under cover, Laura is still human. When you associate with people that you may
> dislike for an extended period of time a person develops feelings anyway. The
> business of being a spy or a plant is somewhat different than what Hollywood or
> TV portrays. I think Laura was/is being paid to provide information to an
> investigator who in turn reports to the Jerky Boys in OSA because that is the
> nature of the business. She was not reporting to Jerky boy Miscavage or Jerky
> boy Rinder because they have to keep distance between themselves and their
> criminal activities. Laura has feelings and I'm sure was confused about what she
> was doing and what the results of her actions were because that is how she would
> act. Another point is this, maybe Laura's cover story of what she was about was
> mostly true because it is hard to remember lies over and over but the truth
> comes natural. I am sure t she is disturbed and needs help. Laura will not be of
> much use to Scientology at this point and maybe this would be a good opportunity
> to get honest and straight with herself and those she associates with. If Laura
> wants to be honest and tell the truth I would be one of the first to applaud her
> for her courage and accept her as a friend. By her actions she was not able to
> do any real damage to me or my friends. The fact of the matter is she was having
> more fun in her association with critics of cults than not.
>
> I don't hate Laura, I don't hate anyone.
>
> Respectfully Submitted,
>
> Jesse Prince
Keith Henson
snip
: Read his second post. This bitch tried to set him up for a drug bust.
: I'd be pissed too. I'd be very insulting, myself and worse.
: While teh bitch was begging Jesse to find her some weed, she was
: yelling OSA who was tipping off the cops who stopped Jesse, who lucked out
: and happened to not have any.
: Sic her, Jesse. You could have been sitting in a jail cell because of
: this 'friend' of yours.
: I'd be pissed too.
I am *strongly* leaning toward this "Laura Terepin" being an op. If she
is I feel nothing but sadness for her, and consider her one of the many
many victims of the cult. Can you *imagine* the pressure they put on
someone who was doing a light duty clarical penetration of CAN and then
FactNet to come on to Jesse? To set him up?
But not unprecidented! Consider Ms Bloodybutt, or consider what pressure
they must have used on Lisa Marie.
But when you think about it, the downside Jesse represents may be higher
than the upside of Michael Jackson.
Keith Henson
Lance S. Buckley
rain...@xenu.bluecrow.com says...
...
>If Minton chooses not to share the evidence with the group at
>large that's his issue, but the least he could do is share it
>with Cynthia Kisser, a credible third party who also seems to
>have a stake in this. If he could convince Cynthia, I would
>be content to let the matter rest, and only harangue people
>about the sexist/sexual slurs, which IMHO, are not called for.
Couldn't agree more.
If -anyone- needs to have access to a CAN infiltrator's identity, wouldn't that
person be Cynthia and other members of the real CAN? That being the case,
wouldn't it make sense (if Minton's motives were above board) that she would
have been the first to be informed, and the first to see the proof. As it is,
Minton has catagorically stated that he will never allow Kisser to see the
"proof" he uses as an excuse to trash someone's reputation. What on Earth is his
motivation? If he genuinely wants to fight the cult, then a close relationship
with those who have been at it -far- longer than he (and many of us) would only
be to his advantage. These people have so much to teach Minton about dealing
with the cult, yet he deliberately alienates them. I can only conclude from his
irrational behaviour that his primary motivation is no longer opposing the Cult
of $cientology.
His directorship of F*ckedNet, and an almost cloistered association with many of
those associated with it...
The whole sorry "Dorian" episode and it's subsequent appearence on the F*kedNet
site...
An almost OSA-like operation run by F*ckedNet on an ex-member of a well
respected Cult recovery resource...
His statement on IRC that "no other organisation [apart from F*ckedNet] has
stood up to the cult...
His callous refusal to furnish "evidence" of an alledged infiltration to those
who need the information most...
I could go on. Suffice to say, the humorous parallels drawn between F*ckedNet's
denizens, and wgert's associates, are becoming less humorous and more parallel
by the day.
It seems to me that currently, Minton's prime motivation as regards the anti-scn
movement is simply ego gratification. He wants publicity and he wants respect.
Well the only respect you can buy, is that which is for sale, and I ain't
selling.
Lance.
Zane
>The last time I actually talked to Laura she was telling me there are things
>about Scientology that she agreed with and thought were good and sound
>principles.
There's some damning evidence. Ooops, I seem to recall Stacy having
posted the same sort of stuff not too many months ago.
Zane - KoX, SP4, Club Nine
Free meme innoculations!
Dave Bird
>>Subject: Who or What is Laura Terepin?
>>From: jes...@gte.net (Jesse Prince)
>
>>Who or What is Laura Terepin?
>
clueless
>but I feel that I must make a few comments. I commented in another
>thread that Laura called me yesterday morning,
>>>>>>>>>>> SUCKER <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
This is not a cute little kitten, Jim,
but the life-form from "Alien".
I get a good picture of Laura, albeit through the hostile
eyes of Jesse Prince. Makes me think of Fishman, or Scarff;
a deniable, illegal PC I'll bet. (Only Fish, at least to
males, is a forgivable sort of flake who knows his own limits).
I like Roland's article. People should read it -- all --
right through to the end.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
Dave Bird
>friends from Scientology and started working together to expose the abuse and
>deception one is likely to experience in the cult of Scientology.
>I flew to LA to meet with attorney Dan Leipold to see if there was anything I
>could do to help FACTNet with a copyright suit filed by Scientology against
>FACTNet. During this time Stacy introduced me to many people, but this is
>about a special person she introduced me to. A woman by the name of Laura
>Terepin.
I find this testimony completely convincing: here is a sincere
person being completely open with us. More I cannot say. No,
I haven't had the detailed evidence in my hand and checked it.
But I believe Jesse is telling the truth, grounded in the experience
to accurately judge what was happening.
How could I even have bothered listening to the usual bunch
of tormented, self- deluded arse-clenchers and swiss-admirals
who are always screaming that the sky is falling?
>The last time I actually talked to Laura she was telling me there are things
>about Scientology that she agreed with and thought were good and sound
|~/ |~/
Roland
>POSSIBLE SPOILERS
>So the Masters have a ton of members, huh? Verrry interesting. I
>recognize some of them, from New Warriors issues (Aqueduct, Cardinal),
>past issues of other comics (Slyde, Dominus, Quicksand (?), Constrictor,
>Man-Ape, Boomerang, Dragonfly) and a few I don't recognize at all.
>
>Comments from the peanut gallery?
25 villians! 25 VILLIANS!!!!! And Slyde to!!!!!!!!!!!
Face it folks... it's time to break out the Old Milwaukees "cause it just
don't get any better than this!"
That last page was incredible!!!! Any true comic nerd has to love Mr.'s
Busiek, Bagley, and Brevoort.
Mike Crampton.
p.s. Was anyone elses issue missing the bottom staple?
Roland
Roland
Roland
Dave Bird
<mir...@newsguy.com> writes
>On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:04:30 GMT, b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:25:21 +0000, Roland
>><roland.rash...@virgin.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I don't need much convincing. The Clams knew your every move. It was
>>>obvious that they had a plant hanging around you and Bob all the time.
>>>You lot should have suspected and investigated it ages ago.
>>>
>>We "were sure" by October.
>
>Still no evidence.
>
>So where's your evidence, Bob?
When you get it, will you fuck off and yap at someone else,
away from serious issues, for at least twelve months?
/; ;\
-- Regards, __ \\____//
XEMoo.Moo.Moo /{_\_/ \`'\_/__ (cow by P.Kistner
<da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> \___ (o\ /o } <up...@sunyit.edu>)
_____________________________/ :--' ____________________
http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/ \_ `__\ ---[ now you've made me ]
\___(o'o) [_really MAAAaadd!___]
`===='
"So many idiots, so few comets" ..OldTimer on ARS
Dave Bird
>Observation: I don't know Laura....but one thing I do know as an ex-G.O.
>member who didn't have much to do with the org...$cienos believe in the art
>of 3rd party to the point of extremely evil character assassination,
>especially OSA ops.
>
> Each weekend for these past 4 weeks, there has been a person who has
>been
>attacked in this group.
>
>I want to read this group, I want to get familiar with who people are in
>ars and I want to learn what's currently going on to stop $cientology and
>Mscavige.
>
>Yet, each weekend, I am looking at in-fighting in the group...and a
>progressive build-up to it from about the previous Wednesday of each week.
>
>It looks like a classic black PR strategy by Cof$.
Sure: OSA are out to get Bob Minton, Jesse Prince, FACTNET, and
everyone connected with them. Barnie, Diane/cca, and Sten-Arne
Zerpe are fuckwits who -- each for their own reasons -- take
pleasure in attacking the strongest current opponent of CoS.
Dave Bird
>In article <rainbird-210...@dun-092.bluecrow.com>,
>rain...@xenu.bluecrow.com says...
>...
>>If Minton chooses not to share the evidence with the group at
>>large that's his issue, but the least he could do is share it
>>with Cynthia Kisser, a credible third party who also seems to
>>have a stake in this. If he could convince Cynthia, I would
>>be content to let the matter rest, and only harangue people
>>about the sexist/sexual slurs, which IMHO, are not called for.
>
>Couldn't agree more.
>
>If -anyone- needs to have access to a CAN infiltrator's identity, wouldn't that
>person be Cynthia and other members of the real CAN? That being the case,
>wouldn't it make sense (if Minton's motives were above board) that she would
>have been the first to be informed, and the first to see the proof. As it is,
>Minton has catagorically stated that he will never allow Kisser to see the
***********************************************************************
>"proof"
*******
Can you cite your source for saying this? [POSTED AND MAILED]
Zinj
general chaotic bickering you see here is normal for ARS :)
Somehow the group (fanciful word) continues despite it.. or possibly because
the lack of 'solidarity' (which I tend to define as 'willingness to lie for the
cause') keeps it what it has always been: A lot of people who for probably as
many reasons as critics have decided to fight the Cult of Scientology.
The lack of agreement or leadership isn't a bug... it's a feature, and also a
basic strength.
It may cause us to be less effective than some might wish.. but it also draws a
hugely diverse group who by no means would ever 'join' a united effort.
In any case I'm glad to see you here and while you may get your knuckles
rapped.. it's par for the course here.
Hope to see more posts from you.
Zinj
William Barwell
The "Bumper Fun" funeral servish,
Now won't you come in, don't be nervish.
When you're time is done,
Go out with real fun (anagram)
Whether gay, lesbo, straight or just pervish.
We have a pink polka-dot hearse,
With a driver who'll swear and he'll curse.
You can test drive a coffin,
Big 'nough to voff in,
We'll supply you a buxom nude nurse.
Then off to the graveyard we'll go,
Topless dancers leading the pro-
cession, then here
We'll all drink some beer,
With the coffin the empties will go.
And no-one will shed any tears,
We'll all stand and offer three cheers,
Your partner's now free
To go on a spree,
They've not been so happy for years.
--Tiddy.
William Barwell
Deana Marie Holmes <mir...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:12:54 GMT, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
>Hausherr) wrote:
>
>>In <36A6B8B8...@xs4all.nl>, Zenon Panoussis <ora...@xs4all.nl>
>>
>>>True. But then again, a.r.s. is open to everyone. Laura,
>>>please, what's your side of the story?
>>
>>maybe "I was just following orders".
>
>Will you JUST STOP IT, Tilman?
>
>Prince's pornography cum "evidence", and you expect her to talk?
>
>
would you try talk with those you KNOW have hard evidence you
were in the pay of the cult's hired agents?
And if you suddenly realized you could get yer ass sued off good,
wouldn't you try to think of something to do? Like playing innocenta nd
tyry to start weaving an alibi starting with anybody who will listen to
you babble and put on your act?
You need an alibi so you start making one up and trying it out so you can
have one for that has been around awhile for when the lawsuit hits.
And no use going back and trying it out on Bob, Stacy, and Jesse.
Laura Terepin knows that.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
William Barwell
Rebecca Hartong <har...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>William Barwell wrote in message <787661$k58$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>...
>>In article <785loa$5...@enews3.newsguy.com>,
>>Rebecca Hartong <har...@erols.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Jesse Prince wrote in message <785bih$ku$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
>>>
>>>>Respectfully Submitted,
>>>
>>>Ha! I don't think you know the meaning of the word. For whom, precisely,
>>>were you supposedly showing respect? Certainly not for Laura Terepin.
>You
>>>took every opportunity to insult her in this post. And certainly not for
>>>the critics on a.r.s., most of whom are quite capable of seeing through
>your
>>>ad hominem, circular arguments, and self-aggrandizement.
>>
>>Read his second post. This bitch tried to set him up for a drug bust.
>
>Jesse Prince's word is worth nothing to me.
Good, and your posts on this issue from here on out mean nothing to me.
One can set the bar so high nothing is provable.
We saw over teh months that no mater where Bob went, they were there to
harrass him in a well organized campaign. And Stacy, and Jesse.
Where were they learning their movements.
Well, now we know. The PI their hired gave 'em the evidence.
I look at the months of harassment and ask you, how DID they know the
movements of these people?
Will you feebly wave your hands and mumble?
I believe they caught on and that a PI quickly enough confirmed
that the culprit theu suspected was an OSA agent.
I am disgusted that the allowed her to scam 'em, but hey,
it's over now.
You can play supersceptic all you want. I will simply have to killfile
you along with Koos and Bernie. I don't have time for people who
aren't thinking back a few months ago to things happening. Who naysay
automatically almost everything another critic says when these things
happen. I am just not interested.
YMMV.
*Plonk!*
William Barwell
Pressure? Probably not. Psychopathic and semipsychopathic game players
are a dime a dozen out there. They get thrills, chills and money for
a movie-plot lifestyle when OSA hires 'em on. Probably takes little
pressure to keep clowns like this going.
I have met a few of these freaks, and give 'em good money and
you probably would have more of a problem reigning them in than pressuring
them to act.
William Barwell
Alan Barclay <gor...@elaine.drink.com> wrote:
>In article <Ge4zirAl...@xemu.demon.co.uk>,
>Dave Bird <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>Minton has catagorically stated that he will never allow Kisser to see the
>> ***********************************************************************
>>>"proof"
>> *******
>>
>> Can you cite your source for saying this? [POSTED AND MAILED]
>
>
Stacy just e-mailed me in regards to a reply to a post to her last night.
I was told that the problem was that a lawyer that was supposed to contact
the PI to give permission for the PI to talk to Cynthia Kisser failed to
do so.
We shall see what happens. If Kisser is still left twisting
in the wind by Friday, I will be a very unhappy man.
I will call for Bob Minton, and Stacy to resign from FACTnet.
Why is it that everthing that has to do with FACTnet turns to shit?
Dave Bird
<23409-36...@newsd-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
What exactly defines the Italian-American cuisine? I understand that its
very distant from the cuisine in Italy.
I'm not sure if it is possible to really define Italian American cuisine.
My impression is as follows. As with any ethnic cuisine brought over by
immigrants to another country the cuisine begins to evolve rapidly to
accommodate regional and/or local ingredients, eating habits and general
culture. However, it is my impression that the growth of Italian cuisine in
America is/was predominantly southern Italian e.g.. tomato based sauces. The
dishes you mentioned in your post I believe are modifications of regional
cooking from southern Italy as well as Sicily. It then becomes important to
understand and follow the immigrant timing and flow into this country as you
can not separate one from the other.
Having said all that I would have to say Italian American is closest to
Southern Italian common food.
Just an opinion.
Dimitri
Dave Bird
Alan Barclay
Lance S. Buckley
Just a pertinent segment. I'd love to post it to ARS but....
enough flames around already for me.
--- snip ---
[My apologies. I'm not posting the log extract to ARS]
Stacy Brooks
[snip]
>Observation: I don't know Laura....but one thing I do know as an ex-G.O.
>member who didn't have much to do with the org...$cienos believe in the art
>of 3rd party to the point of extremely evil character assassination,
>especially OSA ops.
>
[snip]
>It looks like a classic black PR strategy by Cof$.
[snip]
> It's just that it appears to look like classic old G.O. (OSA) tactical
>crap.
>
Nancy, bless you.
Stacy Brooks
Lance S. Buckley
"Looks like" ain't "is". You are associating with quite a few
people who know only too well how a black PR campaign should be
run, Downhome Scieno Style. One of them at least has made it
known he finds no problem "fighting fire with fire". Do you agree
it is ethical to become that which you fight in order to overcome
it? Has your Scn programming stuck so well that you still believe
the end justifies the means?
Yeah it looks like a classic $cn Op, but is it actually an op
-run- by the OSA? Time will tell. Whichever way this turns out,
you've been fooled again. Yet again you've squandered your trust,
now all we wait to see is who actually betrayed it. I have my
suspicions, and the suspect's initials aren't LT.
Lance.
Spiritual Research Workgroup
>If indeed you DID post this and it's not a plant, why do you think this
>woman's sexual experience/core temperature has aught to do with
>anything? Silly git! (if it was you)
In the context of showing that her love and affection was a fake
it certainly has significance.
Heidrun Beer
Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
http://www.sgmt.at
roger gonnet
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>
> In <7862h3$16k...@enews.newsguy.com>, tall...@storm.ca
> (tall...@storm.ca) wrote:
>
> >This *is* sarcasm, right?
>
> See it this way: if Laura is really hired by OSA, then Jesse did the
> juiciest exposure of a plant in "church history". That will teach them a
> lesson.
>
Reminds me plants in the show "Fu fer dans les épinards" some months
ago; no clams had been invited to the show, but they got three of them;
in fact, for those kn,woing their methods and behaviours, they are
mostly transparent: they can't refrain, while in such debates, to launch
the OSA old-receipts about religion freedom and martyrdom, they can't
refrain neither to look so "serene" with their eyes red of no-blinking,
they cant' refrain from "looking present" applying their old TR0 tricks.
Pity, they don't look much human, by the way.
As those trying to spy who was my publisher before the book got out:
they could not refrain to tell me their old story of "my boyfriend is
yet in the staff..."
roger
Rob Clark
>I have a Jewish friend who is a Messianic Jew. A rabbi friend of mine
>said she is not Jewish. But she was born Jewish, so I guess that
>makes her Jewish no matter what she believes. Is that true?
Putting the issue of "what are her children considered" aside,
this person is treated as a non-Jew by Jewish law. That is to say,
as long as she holds her Xian beliefs, actions which require a Jew to
perform do not count if she does them.
Karin Spaink
> Jesse Prince's pornography cum "evidence"
Don't be such a prude.
Jesse said that they fucked and that the two of them
_liked_ it. Nothing more, nothing less. His saying so served
a purpose, too: it explained how the two of them got close
and why. In other words: his descriptions were fully
functional.
Stating that you've fucked somebody and stating that you
looked forward to fuck with them again, does not amount to
pornography.
You think Jesse's story was porn? Wait until I start posting
details about my sex life.
groet,
Karin Spaink
- I write, therefore I am:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
wrote:
>mir...@newsguy.com (Deana Marie Holmes) wrote:
>
>> Jesse Prince's pornography cum "evidence"
>
>Don't be such a prude.
> Jesse said that they fucked and that the two of them
>_liked_ it. Nothing more, nothing less. His saying so served
>a purpose, too: it explained how the two of them got close
>and why. In other words: his descriptions were fully
>functional.
> Stating that you've fucked somebody and stating that you
>looked forward to fuck with them again, does not amount to
>pornography.
Ok, at first I couldn't believe the post from Jesse. Not
because I'm sensitive when it comes to sex (I hold classes
for 14-15 year old kids where one of the debate subjects is
youth love and sex and I'm not known to be one they can make
ashamed, and they love to try), but because I was unprepared
and didn't at first understand his anger.
Now I have to agree with you Karin. Thanks for the perspective.
>You think Jesse's story was porn? Wait until I start posting
>details about my sex life.
This is getting interesting! 8-],,,,,
Best wishes, SP4 & Adm. TOXE CXI
Andreas Heldal-Lund, Normannsgaten 9, N-4013 Stavanger, Norway
Pho: +47 88 00 66 66 Fax: 90 32 35 46 E-mail: hel...@online.no
home.sol.no/~spirous www.xenu.net www.hedning.no/hedning
---------------------------------------------------------------
"The great snare of thought is uncritical acceptance of
irrational assumptions." - Will Durant
---------------------------------------------------------------
William Barwell
(eg. ??tsp ADY - ??oz Fresh Yeast)
TIA.
--
Alessio Tiramani
Replace "d66ABd-65465215" With "Alessio" (If you don't, I won't get it!)
OBFOOD: To make Chips: Peel & Chip Potatoes, Soak for 30 mins, Fry.
Dave Bird
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Zane
Given the fervor with which some well-known critics have latched on to
the Laura Is A Plant hypothesis I decided to review Jessie's post.
I'll make comments as I go. I invite PopeC and others who seem so
convinced about Laura to rebutt my remarks.
>During this time Stacy introduced me to many people, but this is
>about a special person she introduced me to. A woman by the name of Laura
>Terepin.
Unnecessary prelude, dramatic appeal, non-factual, irrelevant.
>Stacy told me that Laura had worked in the Cult Awareness Network with Cynthia
>Kisser. At this time CAN was now defunct, having been sued into the ground by
>Scientology and individual Scientologists. Of all the people I had met, Laura
>seemed very odd and out of place.
By juxtaposition Jessie begins to smear Laura. There are no grounds
for this, no evidence that Laura had anything to do with CAN's demise.
Now Scarff we already know about.
Jessie goes on to describe that Laura never wants to get paid, has
money, etc.
>She explained this away by saying her uncle would not approve. According to
>Laura, her uncle was extremely wealthy and gave her all the financial support
>she needed. Laura said her uncle was heavily into the Mafia and organized
>crime.
Uhm, ok. We have Jessie's version of what Laura did to "explain away"
her financial status. Again, his tone is prejudicial and he offers no
evidence that she is not telling the truth.
>She also implied this same uncle physically and sexually abused her.
Implied? Later on you will notice that Jessie says that she "told"
someone else about the uncle and sexual abuse. Why is it "implied"
here and "told" there? One possibility is that when Jesse got
together and chatted up his buddy they reinforced each other and
heightened their pre-existing paranoia. We'll see that possibility
show up again later too.
>She told me she was an adopted child and her parents ignored her most of the
>time, sending her off to camp and private school. She told me a pitiful story
>about how her same sex French teacher sexually abused her, which is why she
>was a lesbian now. However, in the same breath she said she had met a man
>named Kryle, whom she recently had sex with and she was now not so sure she
>wanted to remain a lesbian.
Of course none of that has any bearing. More innuendo and use of
loaded language (pitiful story) to paint a picture of Laura. No
evidence, more word games.
>Laura was quite obsessed with following me and knowing where I was and what my
>plans were during the entire time I was in LA.
Excuse me? Where is the evidence that she was obsessed?
>She came off like she really
>cared about me and was so worried about me all the time, yet I hardly knew her
>at all.
Maybe she really did care? So far we haven't seen any evidence to the
contrary. According to Jessie Laura is acting like a friend,
revealing personal details, and worrying about Jessie.
>This went on and on and I talked to Stacy about it. I told Stacy that I
>thought Laura was a plant and that she was very weird. Laura loved to smoke
>pot and we smoked some together a couple of times during my trip to LA.
Uh ok. People who smoke pot are more likely to be plants then people
who don't? That doesn't make much sense to me, I would have assumed
it would be the exact opposite.
>Now I will give you the specific instances that made me suspect her.
Ah, ok now the fun begins.
>After hearing the history of Laura we became somewhat intimate. This in itself
>was a bit of a shock as when I touched her in intimate places it was like
>reaching into a deep freezer and grabbing a frozen cat fish. But to hear her
>moans and groans you would had thought she was seriously hot and bothered.
>Looking deep into her dark pretty eyes betrayed the hidden frozen cat fish,
>i.e. there was no emotion there, it was all an act. I began to lose interest
>in her as a sexual partner, although we still carried on a bit.
I'm sorry Pope et al, but that was a nasty bit of work. But don't be
distracted trying to explain that. It's more important to note that
although Jessie said he was going to give us some "specific instances"
he went on to provide _nothing_ to support his suspicions. Nothing.
There was not one damned bit of relevant information in that
paragraph. I would really like someone to explain how Laura's sexual
behaviour (assuming Jessie's characterization is true, which I have no
reason to do) automatically makes her a plant? Where's the causal
connection? There is none. In fact, the most obvious reading is that
she was abused in the past as Jessie has previously asserted.
But that doesn't bother Jessie, he still carrys on for a bit. (see
how nasty innuendo works Jessie?)
>Stacy and I took Laura with us to visit a mutual friend whom I am keeping
>anonymous out of respect.
> This friend and I became friends while in the cult and our friendship survived
>the cult.
Ok. Irrelevant and uninteresting.
>Well, Laura just loves to smoke pot and had to have some so there we were.
Had to have some? As in she was saying "I gotta have some pot, you
guys got any pot? Get me some pot, I gotta have it!"? I think not.
More creative writing from Jessie.
>My friend
>immediately suspected her as a plant because the friend didn't know her and had
>neverheard of her before.
ROFLMAO! Sorry, couldn't help myself. Here's the "logic" in Jessie's
statement (hey, at least it's capable of being described as logic - a
refreshing change):
1. Friend doesn't know Laura; and
2. Friend never heard of her before; therefore
3. Friend suspects Laura of being a plant; and
4. Jessie finds that compelling.
It's not easy to find a weaker argument.
>Again the history she gave of herself just didn't seem
>to add up.
It didn't add up? So far all I've seen is Jessie's, most likely
embelished, version of what her history is. What I haven't seen is
that any of her alleged history has been refuted.
>She told my friend of her involvement with CAN and she added that she
>found it difficult to work at CAN at times because she felt her boss Cynthia
>Kisser was trying to have a sexual relationship with her and this confused
>her.
This is second-hand heresay, for a start. Second, even if she did say
that I gotta say "so what?". If Laura felt that there was some sexual
stuff going on that's hardly a reason to say Laura is an osa spy.
>She also said she was ordered to go to Wellspring because of her odd
>behavior with meditation and such, but she didn't like it and never finished
>the program.
Ditto previous remarks. So what? No causal connection, and in fact
not even a coincidence. Hmmm, that's not part of any evidentiary
exposition at all, just more mud-slining.
>She is a seductive woman and got right down to flirting with
>my friend, telling the friend what a great person the friend was, etc., etc.
Oh let's see. Laura is a friendly person and Jessie's friend, like a
number of maturation-challenged males, believes she's "flirting" with
him. Or maybe Jessie's just embellishing. Who knows, and what
difference does it make since once again as plain mud-slinging it
accomplishes nothing.
>Now
>she had my friend going and my friend offered to let her spend the night at my
>friends place. She declined but said she wanted to stay in contact with my
>friend.
ROFL! The guy hit on her and she politely declined. That's solid
evidence of a plant. Geesh Pope, get a grip.
>Later on that night my friend came to me and said there was something
>odd about her and my friend was concerned that Stacy and I had just brought her
>to the house without first letting my friend know she was coming.
Let me guess, your friend has drugs around all the time and he's
usually fucked up and paranoid. I can see why you aren't using his
name here.
By the way, are we supposed to be impressed because your stoned friend
tries to get a woman to sleep over at his house even though he was
"concerned" that you had brought her there?
Hello? Is anyone else seeing 2+2=5 here?
>All the while, private investigators seem to have a magical way of predicting
>our every move at any given moment.
Yeah, well they're probably following you around, bugging your house
and phone, etc.
>Stacy and I then stayed at the house of another mutual friend and Laura stayed
>there as well. I am not mentioning who the mutual friend was by request of the
>friend.
More anonymous "witnesses".
>The friend spoke to me later after spending some time with Laura and
>told me something was very odd about Laura. Laura had told the friend (whom
>she had just met that day) the sexual abuse story, the criminal uncle … on and
>on. A person that was at the friend's house told the friend they thought Laura
>was a plant as her behavior was just too odd.
Just like that, out of the blue, everyone is up and saying "Hey,
there's something odd about Laura"? Two anonymous "witnesses"
independently deciding that odd means plant?
Jessie is leaving out a whole lot of other conversation that was going
on between him, his friends, and god knows who else. It's real
obvious that Jessie and perhaps others are chatting it up about Laura
behind her back. Nice work gang. And once again, zero points scored
in the evidence column.
>The next day I met with Dan for the first time, and yes, Laura was there. She
>told Dan she would help him organize the files for the FACTNet case and she
>would also type an affidavit for me. The next day Dan's office is swarming
>with private investigator and OSA drones trying to deliver a letter to me. I
>posted one of the letters just recently. It was from Elliot Abelson. I don't
>have the letter to hand but paraphrased it said he understood I was meeting
>with lawyers who were involved in litigation against Scientology. How in the
>hell did he know this?
Good question Jessie. How in the hell do you know it was Laura. So
far you haven't presented one single shred of evidence. And your
story is obviously biased and missing key information as is abundantly
evidenced by your "two friends" story above.
>Laura was supposed to meet me at
>my hotel for some hot sex late one night but she never showed up. Who did show
>up were two private investigators with another threatening letter from
>Scientology stating how they were going to sue me into the ground if I didn't
>stop associating with hostile attorneys.
And? Where was Laura? Why didn't she show up? Did you even ask? I
doubt it, at this point you have already decided she's "suspicious"
and you've engaged in reinforcing exchanges with your friends, so
anything out the ordinary is now pinned on Laura without a single
shred of evidence.
>After I had been in Minneapolis for a few days Laura called me. I was still
>upset with her and wanted nothing to do with her. As a matter of fact I told
>her she could listen in to me having sex with another woman if she wanted to
>but I had no time for her.
Why did you share that "interesting" detail with us Jessie? I'm
curious, it cetainly has nothing to do with whether Laura is an osa
spy or not. Hmmm ... ah, I get it. You're still trying to impress us
with what a stud you are and how you can get laid all the time. Now
there's proof positive that Laura is an osa spy.
>I called Stacy and told her I was sure this girl
>was a plant but Stacy defended her.
As well she should have, since you haven't got one fucking bit of
evidence so far.
>I was in the middle of moving from
>Minneapolis to Boulder and I didn't want anything to do with Laura. She called
>3-4 times a day to ask me what I was doing and who I was talking to and to
>tell me how worried she was about me. I did everything I could to blow her
>off. I told her the next time I wanted to see her face was with me looking
>down at her with my balls swinging from the tip of
>her lips.
Translation: Laura continued to try to be understanding and deal with
Jessie's paranoia, but he continues posturing like a macho punk and
says lameass things about his balls.
>She acted like this excited her beyond belief and I must admit I
>then doubted how I felt about her.
Oh really? And how was she acting Jessie? Was she panting, saying
things, what? Please include any details which demonstrate that Laura
is an osa spy.
>I was still pissed off at her
>and I told her to her face that I thought she was a scientology plant. Oh boy,
>now she goes into how hurt she is that I would think such a thing, she cried
>and said she loved me, on and on.
And that somehow makes her an osa spy? Please explain the connection
for me.
>She was there with her "brother," who happens to be the same private
>investigator that calls my family and friends representing himself as the
>Denver police. Lover bunny Laura was there as well, of course.
So what? You haven't demonstrated any conspiracy at all.
>During the course of the deposition I was asked who was present when I did my
>affidavit for FACTNet and Sandy Rosen would not give it a rest until he got me
>to admit Laura Terepin was there as well. I can only imagine he was testing me
>to see if I would lie under oath as he already knew Laura was there.
Yes, you're right, you "can only imagine" because that's all you have.
Imagination and no facts.
>This is a
>key point to understand the significance of what that means. Laura Terepin
>is/was a Scientology plant and I'll get into the details of that later. One of
>many mistakes Sandy Rosen made was to force me to admit Laura was present at
>Dan Leipold's office during my activities for the FACTnet case. Hey! Guess
>what! That is illegal and no one in the world could pay Laura to sue anyone for
>saying She is/was a plant as Scientology can't bear the scrutiny of the
>discovery process. Judge Kane won't have it.
Another fanciful and unsubstantiate theory.
>Again, Stacy and I were in disagreement about her being a plant
Stacy is clinging to her good senses. Good for you Stacy!
>but other
>people were starting to be convinced she was.
Care to be more specific? I don't suppose they have any real evidence
either.
>Scientology lawyers somehow found out where the secret location was
>and brought a marshal in with a court order.
And? Listen gang, this is Spy v. Spy 101 - if you're an evil criminal
cult you bug people and listen in on them all the time. Sure there
could be a plant, but we have no fucking evidence that Laura is it.
So far the "evidence" could just as easily support the proposition
that Jesse is the OSA plant running an op on Minton and Laura is the
handy fall-gal.
>The next day I had to leave for the east coast and was met by DEA agents who
>had apparently gotten a hot tip. Well, of course, they found nothing because
>there was nothing for them to find.
Let's see, the DEA shows up for a little bit of pot? I don't think
so. A more reasonable scenario is that the cult's scummy PIs see
Jesse visiting someone, they find out that that someone has a drug
history, and they (the criminal cult's PIs) call the DEA and make up
some big drug-deal story. That's far more likely than Jesse's
version.
>I had told her I would bring whatever was left over from the
>pot I had with me. Can you imagine her despair when she found out I had
>arrived safely without incident?
No, because you haven't demonstrated that she wanted to see you
busted. So far she has been showing a lot of concern for your welfare
and has cried with the hurt you've caused with your accusations.
>Wonder why Scientology puts out DA packs
>about me being a drug abuser?
Yeah, because you're too dense to avoid messing around with drugs even
though you know they're on you with PIs and shit. Damn, get a clue
dude!
>After this little incident a private investigator was employed and I gave him
>as much information as I could about Laura. He came back with confirmation
>that not only did Laura live with a current Scientology staff member, she was
>making regular phone calls to a private investigator who works for David Lee
>who works for Gene Ingram.
I'll believe it when I see the proof in black-and-white. So far this
post has consisted of innuendo, obvious exagerations, and transparent
bullshit. At this point I have no reason to believe your
characterization of the alleged actual evidence.
>I myself have run plants in on groups and people critical of Scientology and
>I've posted about this before. I apologize if the above information proved to
>be more reality than some can handle.
More than some can handle. Sounds like dorian-speak.
>You want to talk to Laura about it? Here are her last known phone numbers:
>
>909-204-6040
>323-376-0506
That was a fucked up thing to do.
>The last time I actually talked to Laura she was telling me there are things
>about Scientology that she agreed with and thought were good and sound
>principles.
Gee, I remember seeing Stacy post words to that effect not very long
ago. She must be a plant too, go get her Jesse!
>In America we believe and practice that each and every person has
>inalienable rights to freedom of speech, the right to privacy …on and on.
Yeah, but if Jesse's getting wigged out you better be careful what you
say or he's going to smear your sex-life, childhood, and phone numbers
all over the fucking net.
>Laura was speechless when I gave
>her this argument and this was the last time we really talked.
Yeah, I was kind of stunned too. It always amazes me to see someone
so utterly failing to practice what they preach.
>Looking back on why Laura seemed so odd in light of other information that came
>up about her it is clearer to me why and what was happening.
What "other information"?
>Another point is this, maybe Laura's cover story of what she was about was
>mostly true because it is hard to remember lies over and over but the truth
>comes natural. I am sure t she is disturbed and needs help.
You'd better get some help for yourself Jesse, paranoia is a nasty
disease.
>Respectfully Submitted,
There was certainly no respect for Laura there, or for those of us who
like to see a little evidence when someone is being called an OSA spy.
Now I'll be the first to admit that it is possible that Laura is an
OSA spy. But there is not one bit of evidence to support that
accusation in the post. The only alleged actual evidence (phone logs)
has not been produced, and may have some reasonable alternate
explanation. Until the exact evidence, all of it, is produced then I
have to suppose that it's bullshit like the rest of the "evidence" in
Jesse's post.
A theory equally-well supported by the "facts" presented herein is
that Jesse is the OSA operative who is taking Minton down and using
Laura as fall-gal, bait, and grounds for later civil action against
Minton.
Of course since Jesse's "facts" are in reality nothing but
speculation, innuendo, exagertion, and fabrication there's no reason
to accept my theory either. :-)
Zane - KoX, SP4, Club Nine
Free meme innoculations!
Deana Marie Holmes
wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:10:27 GMT, "Nancy Law" <nl...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>Observation: I don't know Laura....but one thing I do know as an ex-G.O.
>>member who didn't have much to do with the org...$cienos believe in the art
>>of 3rd party to the point of extremely evil character assassination,
>>especially OSA ops.
>>
>[snip]
>
>>It looks like a classic black PR strategy by Cof$.
>
>[snip]
>
>> It's just that it appears to look like classic old G.O. (OSA) tactical
>>crap.
>>
>
>Nancy, bless you.
>
"Looks like"--still no evidence, Stacy.
Btw, Stacy, as a woman, how do you feel about another woman being
called a "whore" and other nasty female sexual slurs?
Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod Keller)
The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
mir...@xmission.com
Deana Marie Holmes
Workgroup) wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:49:40 -0800, Barb <anon...@nyx.net> wrote:
>
>
>>If indeed you DID post this and it's not a plant, why do you think this
>>woman's sexual experience/core temperature has aught to do with
>>anything? Silly git! (if it was you)
>
>
>In the context of showing that her love and affection was a fake
>it certainly has significance.
Heidrun,
I will give you the benefit of the doubt, because you're not an
American, and I doubt your trips here have given you any extended look
at the nuances of American English.
Use of words like "whore" and "bitch" are considered to be very
degrading. One thing that the feminist movement has tried to do is
enlighten people as to the consequences of the words they use. One of
the things that appalls me about this whole LT affair is that even
after 30 years, there are still quite a number of people who seem to
find absolutely nothing wrong in describing a female enemy in sexual
terms. Dammit, she's not an object, she's a human being!
Another thing that really hit me while I was trying to read that Jesse
Prince pornography is that Prince's post seemed to get into the most
gratuitous sexual stereotypes. There was no attempt at all to
understand LT as a human being, she was just the enemy. The enemy
doesn't have a face, doesn't have a soul, is just a cardboard cutout
that can be shot at, at will. It was sickmaking.
I really think that Bob should not have posted the first time; he
should have presented his evidence to Cynthia Kisser, who, as far as I
can tell, would be even more interested in this than Bob....but as
with other BobWhoppers [TM], the evidence is said to be forthcoming...
Rebecca Hartong
William Barwell wrote in message <788mns$5nd$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>...
>>I have read it. The only evidence he supplies for any of this is his
word.
>>Jesse Prince's word is worth nothing to me.
>
>Good, and your posts on this issue from here on out mean nothing to me.
Yet, you continued your reply! That's good, Barwell.
>One can set the bar so high nothing is provable.
Certainly. But I don't think asking for something more concrete than simply
Minton's or Prince's word is setting the bar too high.
>We saw over teh months that no mater where Bob went, they were there to
>harrass him in a well organized campaign. And Stacy, and Jesse.
>Where were they learning their movements.
As Bob, Stacy, and Jesse have *all* indicated in previous posts, the CoS has
had their own PIs following them around for months! Gee, do you think maybe
it's possible that Scientology's PIs actually know how to do their jobs as
well as Minton's PI does?
>Well, now we know. The PI their hired gave 'em the evidence.
>I look at the months of harassment and ask you, how DID they know the
>movements of these people?
See above. Minton and company have themselves confirmed on several
occasions that Scientology PIs have been following them around.
>Will you feebly wave your hands and mumble?
I don't need to, Barwell.
>I believe they caught on and that a PI quickly enough confirmed
>that the culprit theu suspected was an OSA agent.
So they say. How about something more concrete than just their word on it?
>I am disgusted that the allowed her to scam 'em, but hey,
>it's over now.
>
>You can play supersceptic all you want.
Asking for concrete evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Laura Terepin is
not being a "supersceptic." You'll be pleased to know that if someone were
to come on a.r.s. and make similar accusations about YOU, I'd maintain the
same kind of skepticism.
>I will simply have to killfile
>you along with Koos and Bernie.
I CAN'T HEAR YOU! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
That's pretty pathetic, Pope.
>I don't have time for people who
>aren't thinking back a few months ago to things happening.
What the hell are you talking about here? It's actually *because* I'm
thinking back to things that happened a few months ago that I'm not willing
to simply take Bob Minton's word on things.
>Who naysay
>automatically almost everything another critic says when these things
>happen.
"These things" haven't been proven to have happened at all, Barwell. That's
the problem.
>I am just not interested.
>
>YMMV.
>
>*Plonk!*
You big baby. Can't handle a little disagreement, eh?
Zenon Panoussis
Karin Spaink skrev:
>
> You think Jesse's story was porn? Wait until I start posting
> details about my sex life.
YOU WILL NOT!
Z
--
oracle@everywhere: The ephemeral source of the eternal truth...
David Gerard
:>*Plonk!*
:Why do you hate me for telling the truth?
What working meaning/definition of 'hate' are you using here? I see nothing
I would call 'hate'. I ask because you've used this sentence a few times
in these threads.
--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/ http://suburbia.net/~fun/scn/
"So self-published that he has callouses." - Lionel Lauer on Edmond Wollman
William Barwell
Karin Spaink <ksp...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>mir...@newsguy.com (Deana Marie Holmes) wrote:
>
>> Jesse Prince's pornography cum "evidence"
>
>Don't be such a prude.
> Jesse said that they fucked and that the two of them
>_liked_ it. Nothing more, nothing less. His saying so served
>a purpose, too: it explained how the two of them got close
>and why. In other words: his descriptions were fully
>functional.
> Stating that you've fucked somebody and stating that you
>looked forward to fuck with them again, does not amount to
>pornography.
actively got deeply involved with Jesse sexually while being paid by a PI
to collect damaging information on Jesse, Bob, Stacy, FACTnet and anybody
involved with them.
That is pretty low.
Whore is a proper word for the sort of woman that would do this
sort of crap.
Jesse was quite proper to show the depths to which Scientology's pet PIs
will sink to destroy people. If the prudes, weinies, supersceptics
and bluenoses don't like it, maybe they should try another newsgroup,
where such horrible things don't have to be read by those who find reality
a disturbing place to live.
William Barwell
David Gerard <f...@thingy.apana.org.au> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:41:02 GMT, Deana Marie Holmes <mir...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>:>*Plonk!*
>
>:Why do you hate me for telling the truth?
>
>
>What working meaning/definition of 'hate' are you using here? I see nothing
>I would call 'hate'. I ask because you've used this sentence a few times
>in these threads.
>
It is exactly her overemotional, even hysterical approach to all of this
that makes me tired of reading her posts. This sort of crap using teh
word hate like this is just the sort of excess that I no longer wish to
have to wade through. it gets tiresome....
William Barwell
In article <01be4515$f462d4a0$031667d1@default>,
Nancy Law <nl...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>Hi, I'm a newbie to the group. I've been reading it for about 4 weeks.
>
>First, I am an ex-$cieno, who left the Toronto org before it burned down
>and before any court cases....okay I've been away from the whole scene and
>only have been on the net for about a year.
Welcome to ARS, our own little piece of heaven.
>Observation: I don't know Laura....but one thing I do know as an ex-G.O.
>member who didn't have much to do with the org...$cienos believe in the art
>of 3rd party to the point of extremely evil character assassination,
>especially OSA ops.
When were you in the G.O.?
>
> Each weekend for these past 4 weeks, there has been a person who has been
>attacked in this group.
>
Try 4 years. They love to do this. Usually from anonymous accounts.
Belive it or not, it has been worse in the past. But the CoS doesn't
really need to try, some critics here threat critiics worse than
the cult. Woe to those who are not politically correct enough for the
supersceptics.
Oddly enough, though a regular on ARS since August 1995, I have rarely
been attacked by the Scientologists. Downstat! Come on Scientology,
you have to do better.
>I want to read this group, I want to get familiar with who people are in
>ars and I want to learn what's currently going on to stop $cientology and
>Mscavige.
>
>Yet, each weekend, I am looking at in-fighting in the group...and a
>progressive build-up to it from about the previous Wednesday of each week.
>
>It looks like a classic black PR strategy by Cof$.
>
Much of it has nothing really to do with CoS, their obvious black PR
usually gets short shrift here. It is our own ring of pet naysayers,
supersceptics, clowns who don't want to believe anything, pompous
people who think they are smarter than everybody else.
You quickly learn, that on the net, every newsgroup seems to have it's
equivalent time wasters. It isn't really Scientology, it is a small
handful of people who everytime something happens, sit there going " I
don't believe it, there isn't enough evidence for ME, but there never is,
is there? Now, let's stir the shit." Kill file them, ignore them and any
thread they pop up in. They have nothing to do with Scientology, they are
just habitual pests. There to waste your time. Dev-T, not Black PR.
This has been going on for years.
Hartong, Ceon, Bernie, Koos, killfile 'em and then you will have time
for the anonymous hit and run black PR raids from CoS.
>Hey, I know I'm new here and I have been away from anything to do with
>$cientology and didn't even know about ars until I was a contributor to the
>AOL ars about a year or a year and a half ago (as a result of this, I
>recently saw my name on a list of persons and organizations who are blocked
>by $cien's net nanny).
>
Yes, indeedy, them Scientologists sure do teach you how to communicate,
right.
>If I'm out of line, there is no intention to be.....BUT, doesn't it make
>you pause and think of where you first heard accusations about an ars
>person's integrity?
>
Stick around on the net long enough, and you will learn that such behavior
is typical net behavior. You can get far worse in the political
newsgroups. Some of the most vicious crud on the net now involves
astrology. Actually, ARS is hardly the worst newsgroup on the net
for this sort of behavior, not by a long shot.
> It's just that it appears to look like classic old G.O. (OSA) tactical
>crap.
>
>
>If there's any chance I'm right, I know they're very, very happy.
>
>Rap my knuckles(sp?) if I'm out of line.
Hang around here long enough and you will see, most of the obvious
CoS black PR is obvious and gets poor reception. There are a few
automatic naysayers here that manage to get stuff stirred up
mainly from their own overinflated sense of skepticism. It's a
small circle.