to the sea org kids
barbz
--
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser
Kommari
scientology which have atleast 3 links :D
dreadpir...@aol.com
thoughtfully done....
Tony
The Cardinal
barbz
Thanks. I try to post it every weekend. It's the only time the poor kids
are "off the leash" and possibly around internet cafes and such.
Zorg
Yes Barb, well done! If you plant the seed of curiosity within just one
Sea Org kid it may blossom into a child confronting the truth and
reality. If only one child listens then you have saved one child.
To The Church of Scientology, The Sea Org, The Religious Freedom
Network and the Office Of Special Affairs (et al): Why not let your
children explore the internet and the world around them and let them
make the choice as to whether or not to stay in Scientology? Would that
not be the 'total freedom' L. Ron Hubbard spoke and wrote about so
often and is the mainline in your public relations and promotions?
Lies dissolve in the light of Truth. To continue a lie one must lie
about the Truth and call that Truth lies.
One must always be kept in the dark to re-inforce lies - and tell those
kept in the dark that the light that they see is really the darkness
and that their isolated world is the only true light for only the true
hope for those not in the darkness.
Sea Org children: When you are also brave enough to demand your rights
as a citizen of your country then maybe you can explore these
Scientology-critical sites. Read what is posted and decide for yourself
who may be right and who may be wrong. NO ONE is ever entirely right
and NO ONE is every entirely wrong. That's just part of life - nothing
is black-and-white; everything is a shade a grey.
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.lermanet.com
http://www.ahbl.org/notices/barbschwarz.php
http://www.scientomogy.info/index.html#NEW
http://tinyurl.com/lcaqv
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.xenutv.com
I am being defamed and forged here
barbz wrote:
> --
> --
Read about Barbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham here, kids:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
She thinks children of Scientologists are stupid and she (and her
supporters) wants to destroy your family. They are suppressive people.
Read FBI letters on L. Ron Hubbard being no criminal here, kids:
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
Have a good day, kids, and enjoy your lives. Don't become lawless like
the anti-religious extremists.
-
Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark (Marty) Rathbun. No
impostor, please!)
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
--
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
(I am concerned about Dave Touretzky's activities. He also has bomb
instructions on the net)
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
Victoria (Tory) Christman was on drugs and also experimented with
heroin. If not for Scientology, she might have died. She now defames L.
Ron Hubbard, Scientology and Scientologists who salvaged her from her
destructive "lifestyle".
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/_vti_bin/shtml.dll/search.html
"I made my typical, totally evaluative decision without ANY real
facts."
Tory Christman, 27 Jun 2001, Message-ID:
<3B3A9693...@worldnet.att.net
Zorg
Sea Org children:
Read everything.
Make up your own minds... you'll need to learn to do this; it is part
of adulthood.
Beware of any 'advice' by anyone who is really telling you what to
think; you can tell the difference: being told what and how to think
results in punishment if you do not do it: advice has consequences,
good and/or bad that you will discover for yourself.
rockyslammer
years old. I had to start my life anew. I had to work extra hard to
make up for 18 years of not earning. Everything people normally do
much younger. I vowed to give my kids a better start than I made for
myself.
My daughter was born into scientology. We left when she was quite
young. She did her schooling and then went to university. She studied
sound and TV production and has just graduated. She is working her
first job. She is a female DJ and obviously heavilly into music. She
teaches kids to DJ. She has travelled to many countries and has just
learnt to surf. She has been riding horses since she was 6 years old
and has had three horses/ponies. At the moment she is learning
dressage. She has boyfriends, a car, a flat of her own and she can
talk to ANYONE she wants. And she does - because she is very outgoing.
She is better at communication than me - an OT! I love her to bits as
I do her younger brother. I am a very proud dad!!
Sea Org kids - what you have isn't life. Read Barbz message again -
think about it.
You are told scientology will deliver something to you - it won't. As
I said I
came in mid 1960's as a 17 year old boy. Scientology does NOT give
what it promises - I promise you. The rest of the world thinks
scientologist are aggressive looneys. They are - but it doesn't have
to be that way for you. Good luck.
Email me if you want to swear at me or ask a question. I can talk to
anyone and if you have the courage so can you.
Zorg
God (Creator, Lord, Great Spirit, any power greater than yourself
except for L. Ron Hubbard)...
Grant me;
The serentity to accept the things I cannot change,
[you CANNOT change your past with Scientology]
The courage to accept the things I cannot change,
[you CAN change your future in Scientology]
And the wisdom to know the difference.
You do not even have to believe anyone or anything will hear this
prayer... it WILL be heard. That's something called 'Faith' rather than
'policy' or 'tech' or 'ethics orders'.
barbz
> barbz wrote:
>
>>--
>>--
>
>
> Read about Barbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham here, kids:
> http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
>
> She thinks children of Scientologists are stupid and she (and her
> supporters) wants to destroy your family. They are suppressive people.
>
> Read FBI letters on L. Ron Hubbard being no criminal here, kids:
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
>
> Have a good day, kids, and enjoy your lives. Don't become lawless like
> the anti-religious extremists.
>
> -
> Barbara Schwarz
Hey warts Schwarz...by this time of day, all the good little drones are
back in their hive doing slave stuff. They won't be online again until
next Saturday. You better get up early to reach them. Get your poop in a
bag and shuffle on down to wherever you have internet access, girlie.
Unlike you, all I have to do is get up, boot up, and start coffee, in
that order. That's why I post early in the ayem. You don't even have a
phone, do you? <mimics puzzled concern>
barbz
Awesome post, rockyslammer. A fo'real perspective. Good grief. And The
Schwarz would encourage them to continue on in servitude forever...
What great advice from a loony tune!
rockyslammer
your next post for the kids please.
thanks
barbz
I would be honored to do so. Thanks.
rockyslammer
zone!! Honoured!!
antispam-anti-scientology
The Real Chris
the church of christ.
Well Scientolgy is not a religion but the orgs are a religious order which
is organised like a ship. There is a captain and various ranks and grades.
The duties include cleaning, washing, cooking and keeping healthy with diets
and vitamins and exercises and purification means using the toilet and
showering to get rid of toxins both natural and artificial.
Food is to be natural and organic grown on organic farms I've never tasted
food so good as I buy in the little canteen for $3 or so.
I almost got better overnight they saved my life one night when collapsed
with 3 bullets in my chest (one in my heart) after being under a mini atom
bomb explosion in London when people around me just melted away and a dog
just vanished, and the stress of switching off 5 20 Mega ton bombs I sort of
found in homes near me after some terrorists shot the family in their
houses, after my emergancy operastion, some thing like a brand new heart or
just an angioplast or two and the bullets taken out, one from my heart the
others somewhere else, made me cough a bit and just collapse, well they
stuffed vitamines down my throat becaise I also have pernicious anemia.
Lifes better now.
I don't know what they believe, but it isn't xenu and stuff itis not
available unless you pay them the $6000 but if yo've got three hours to
spare you may be allowed to watch a terrible video which will fill you with
terrible fear, about people being dragged screaming to their execution and
sobbing and crying for mercy as their execution grown near. In the gulags
called hospitals for those cerified insane for stepping out of line with the
catholic church. The are executed naked bound and concious by having their
fore brains cut out.
Their unconcious robotised bodies can be picked up for sex and dancing
performances.
Their sin is usually their trivial belief in aliens or bug eyed monsters.
Well these bug eyed people, who are quite nice, come and chat nown again
(beam me up scottie) and those that see them realise how terrible is their
own mortality.
And some will testify of their time aboard the starships that call
ocasionally, and the astrobioly of the local stellar cluster we are in, and
the fact that our sun is a technetium flare star and will some day burst
into a planetary nebula. That was Hubbards message so carefuilly hidden in
his science fiction books and the poor man who wanted so much to do research
to pass on this alien knowlege to the human race was prevented by psychiatry
who are the agents of the catholic church and that the scientology movement
was set up to preserve this knowlege.
The exobiology of the solar system will be revealed and the physics of the
universe passed down. The science of knowlege and the other sciences such
as chemistry and the study of intelligence (brain science) the begining and
end of things is discussed and social systems.
That Jesus taught similar things is taught to and that attempts at contact
have gone on throughout human history.
The possiblity that the human race is the decendents of the escapees of a
breeding at culturing of early humans to be used as pets for the alien race
and that these pets were cleverer than their creators and threw them out.
The human race is not as stupid as the human race thinks it is.
The escapees built their own starships and populated planets all over the
place, but we are all freinds now.
As the ice age ended and the meltwaters destroyed the coastal civilisation
all over the planet.
And that we all live on in gods memory after we die because we are sentient
beings and god does not let us die.
This is the outer limits of the Galactic empire and we are all in it. And
there are laws.
And news that you will never see or hear on TV.
Chris.
ida...@aol.com
Barb your post to the kids was great. I will re-post it here and in the
future.
Thanks for your ability to put it all in words that the youngers can
understand
the sea org kids.txt ]
Hey there.
Have you ever looked around you while walking around Los Angeles? Do
you
ever notice other kids your age, driving cars, shopping for clothes,
enjoying a meal on a restaurant patio?
Some of them are devoted to saving the world, and dedicate some of
their
time to saving the environment, being politically active, adopting
causes. But children, these kids aren't spending 99% of their time
running on the Hamster Wheel to Toadle Freedom!
Youth is a time of discovery. Parties with friends, a day at the beach,
your first car, dating, and learning what the real world is all about.
Have you ever been to the mountains or the desert? Or, is your time
spent within the Scientology reality bubble?
So much of what Scientology is teaching you is not true. If you're
reading this, it's possible that you, yourself have nagging doubts, but
you keep them to yourself, don't you? Because you know what will happen
if you dare to share them with a confidant...kr reports, Ethics, the
RPF.
Kids, out in the real world, we have the right to speak out about
things
we feel aren't "right." Real communication means sharing your thoughts
with others, and getting their input. I have met many
ex-Scientologists.
They are, like you, often intelligent people who misplaced their trust.
One thing I think is interesting is, they all harbored these doubts.
So,
if there are things about the Sea Org that bother you, be assured that
the people around you are also harboring doubts about Scientology, yet
none of you dare to mention them for fear of reprisal.
This isn't freedom! The gate to the Auschwitz concentration camp had a
message to the prisoners on it; 'Arbeit macht frei,' work makes you
free. The Nazis twisted these words around, being in a concentration
camp doing slave labor isn't freedom!
You are at a time in your life when you should be getting your first
car
and exploring the world around you. Like the song says, 'Nobody walks
in
L.A."
You should be playing at the beach. You should have your first job, and
be earning your own money for toys like Ipods, computers, video games.
You should have a dog. You should have real friends, who like you for
who you are, friendship not dependant upon membership in a group.
Saving the world is a noble endeavor. But Scientology is a mock-up; the
organization isn't really working in that direction. Deep down inside,
you probably know this, but you don't want to know. Your youth is being
stolen. Many members, when they finally leave, are in their 20s and
30s.
You can never get the time back when you are free to explore the world.
You'll be spit out as an adult into the real world, with no skills, no
connections, no friends. It's harder as you get older.
Right now, there's still time to go to school and learn to do something
you enjoy. Making money is only part of life, but it does grease the
wheels. If you start now, you can take your life back, and still get in
on some of the youthful fun you're entitled to enjoy.
I know, you wouldn't know what to do if you packed up your small
belongings and walked out, never to return. You don't know where to go,
or who to trust. Los Angeles is a big city.
However, there is a big network of people who would be happy to help
you! Magoo, myself, Arnie, Warrior, Dr. Dave Touretzky, we can all be
contacted thru email.
If you're fed up with your life in the Sea Org and Scientology, you can
find help. Some of you, like Magoo, have invested their whole lives
inside Scientology, and you know that, if you leave, you will lose all
your friends and, some of you, your families as well.
That's no different than a drug addict who decides to clean up. They
have to give up their old friends and their old life, too. But, people
do it all the time. It's not impossible.
And here's a funny thing. Ex-members are connecting up with some of
their old, dear friends on the other side of the veil! Sometimes you
just have to wait until they "wake up" too, and leave the organization.
If you stay in, Scientology will use you up. There is no retirement
home
for elderly Scientologists. There is no pension plan. When you quit
producing, that's it! You will find yourself on a street corner,
clutching a garbage bag of possessions, with nowhere to go, no Social
Security (such as it is) and few options. You know this is true! An old
person with few skills is doomed to taking crappy jobs for minimum
wage,
living in a crappy little apartment somewhere. But, think about it.
They've got their own place, which they don't have to share. Nobody is
going to drink the last milk in their fridge, or eat the last Ho-Ho out
of the cupboard. They can have a television if they wish. They can call
their friends whenever they want. They don't need permission to go out
of town.
It's better when you're young enough to create a decent life for
yourself. Think about it! If you want to cut class, you can, although a
responsible person would realize that they're going to school for a
reason. Having your own car means you can take a drive up Mt. Wilson to
see the snow whenever you want. You don't need anyone's permission to
do
anything. That's Total Freedom, kids! Being responsible enough to pilot
your own life, not relying on somebody else telling you what to do,
being free enough to hit the beach on a sunny day when you feel like
it.
Taking up hang gliding, riding motorcycles, exploring the boundaries of
your own ability. You should, at this point in your life, be driving
your own bus. Don't you want to?
Surf's up! The fish are biting! The sun is out (well, not today) and
you
should be outside, expanding your mind, learning new things, meeting
new
friends. You should be driving your own bus. Don't you want to?
One other thing. There are people on this newsgroup whose job it is to
confuse and instill mistrust. They pose as critics of Scientology, but
it's just a Scientology op. All the off-topic posts about eevil psychs,
same thing, a Scientology op to disrupt communication here.
Odd behavior for a group that claims to be committed to communicating,
isn't it?
Road Runner, Truth Seeker, Lily Fired, Space Traveler (aka Roadrunner)
Barbara Schwarz, are all Scientologists trying to break the flow of
communication about Scientology and its abuses. Some pose as critics.
However, they will never recommend critical websites, trying to
convince
you that the critical sites are somehow Scientology related OSA ops.
Truth Seeker is known for referring readers to a series of essays,
written by OSA, which purport to be critical.
http://www.xenu.net is one site he won't recommend.
http://www.lermanet.com is another.
The creator of lermanet.com is Arnie Lerma, ex-SO member, who almost
married one of Hubbard's daughters! You can trust him. He has helped
many people get their lives back.
Beware of the sock puppets who say everyone here is OSA. I'm not. On my
hate pages at religiousfreedomwatch.com/extremists, the first thing on
that page is, "Barbara Graham has never been a Scientologist, never had
relatives who were in, etc."
Look at those pages. If a person is listed as a "religious extremist,"
it means they are on Scientology's "enemies list."
Did you ever wonder why a "church" has an enemy's list?
morgan
public board in Los Angeles in places where Sea Org kids might see it?
I haven't spent a lot of time in LA, so i don't know if this is
practical or not. It's such a great message. It would be so wonderful
if all of them could read it.
Ramona
out of the SeaOrg. Perhaps her claim to be the daughter of Hubbard,
who she also claimed was the son of Eisenhower, got her a golden ticket
out.
Ramona
barbz
No, I just post it to ARS on weekend mornings. Feel free to post it
elsewhere. No attribution is needed. I wrote it because it needed
writing. I don't need credit for it. Help yourself, spread the word
wherever you think it might reach some poor kid who is wasting their
youth on Scientology.
I am being defamed and forged here
barbz wrote:
> morgan wrote:
>
If Barbzzzzzzzzz or any other anti-religious extremist destroys
Scientology families with her vicious anti-religious poison, they can
sue her for all she got and more.
Why is Barbzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham trying to influence children
against their parents? I am sure there are laws against it.
However, I think most Sea Org kids would never fall for Barbzzzzzzzz
misunderstandings on Scientology. They know it better than she does.
barbz
> barbz wrote:
>
>>morgan wrote:
>>
>
>
> If Barbzzzzzzzzz or any other anti-religious extremist destroys
> Scientology families with her vicious anti-religious poison, they can
> sue her for all she got and more.
Let's see...Sea Org kid realizes the Scieno life sucks and quits. Who
then breaks up the family by imposing disconnection? MMM, it ain't me,
Babblie. It's your buddies at the friendly local org!
>
> Why is Barbzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham trying to influence children
> against their parents? I am sure there are laws against it.
Are you saying the Sea Org hires minor children, Babbles? I KNOW there
are laws against that!
>
> However, I think most Sea Org kids would never fall for Barbzzzzzzzz
> misunderstandings on Scientology. They know it better than she does.
Yeah, every kid in the world would MUCH rather play at 'saving the
planet' than driving around Hollywood in a convertible!
>
>
"If you want to be babbled, you have to address them for some loads of
babbles. I don't pass out any babbles or schwarzed, not for free and
not against payment."
--Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark (Marty) Rathbun. No
> impostor, please!)
--
I am being defamed and forged here
barbz wrote:
> I am being defamed and forged here wrote:
>
> > barbz wrote:
> >
> >>morgan wrote:
> >>
> >
> >
> > If Barbzzzzzzzzz or any other anti-religious extremist destroys
> > Scientology families with her vicious anti-religious poison, they can
> > sue her for all she got and more.
>
> Let's see...Sea Org kid realizes the Scieno life sucks and quits.
This is what your disturbed mind is telling you, Barbzzzzzzzzz Babbles
Graham. Kids are minors and they have to do what their parents want not
what you, the anti-religious extremist want.
> Who
> then breaks up the family by imposing disconnection? MMM, it ain't me,
> Babblie. It's your buddies at the friendly local org!
I have no friends who broke up with their families. Tory Christman and
Ida Camburn did that with their families but they are like you
anti-religious extremist. You just mentioned that you want children (!)
to quit Scientology, in other words, you want kid to run away. If a kid
would do that and gets harmed, you have to carry the legal
responsibility as you made the kids (if any should be so dumb and
listen to you) leave their parents and run off!
> >
> > Why is Barbzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham trying to influence children
> > against their parents? I am sure there are laws against it.
>
> Are you saying the Sea Org hires minor children, Babbles? I KNOW there
> are laws against that!
Can't you speak English or what? Where did I write that the SO hires
kids, Babbles Graham?
> >
> > However, I think most Sea Org kids would never fall for Barbzzzzzzzz
> > misunderstandings on Scientology. They know it better than she does.
>
> Yeah, every kid in the world would MUCH rather play at 'saving the
> planet' than driving around Hollywood in a convertible!
SO kids can play all their want. I wish I would have had study tech and
other L. Ron Hubbard tech when I was little.
--
Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark (Marty) Rathbun. No
impostor, please!)
barbz
> barbz wrote:
>
>>I am being defamed and forged here wrote:
>>
>>
>>>barbz wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>morgan wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If Barbzzzzzzzzz or any other anti-religious extremist destroys
>>>Scientology families with her vicious anti-religious poison, they can
>>>sue her for all she got and more.
>>
>>Let's see...Sea Org kid realizes the Scieno life sucks and quits.
>
>
> This is what your disturbed mind is telling you, Barbzzzzzzzzz Babbles
> Graham. Kids are minors and they have to do what their parents want not
> what you, the anti-religious extremist want.
So, what you're saying is that Scientology employs minor children?
That's illegal!
>
>
>>Who
>>then breaks up the family by imposing disconnection? MMM, it ain't me,
>>Babblie. It's your buddies at the friendly local org!
>
>
> I have no friends who broke up with their families. Tory Christman and
> Ida Camburn did that with their families but they are like you
> anti-religious extremist. You just mentioned that you want children (!)
> to quit Scientology, in other words, you want kid to run away. If a kid
> would do that and gets harmed, you have to carry the legal
> responsibility as you made the kids (if any should be so dumb and
> listen to you) leave their parents and run off!
Dear, those kids at AOLA don't live at home. If their folks are also SO,
they don't even have a home life. If they're minors, they shouldn't be
working for Scientology. If they're over 18, they're old enough to make
their own decisions. Your argument is not only spurious, it's stoopid.
>
>
>
>>>Why is Barbzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham trying to influence children
>>>against their parents? I am sure there are laws against it.
>>
>>Are you saying the Sea Org hires minor children, Babbles? I KNOW there
>>are laws against that!
>
>
> Can't you speak English or what? Where did I write that the SO hires
> kids, Babbles Graham?
Word clear 'minor,' dumb fuck!
>
>>>However, I think most Sea Org kids would never fall for Barbzzzzzzzz
>>>misunderstandings on Scientology. They know it better than she does.
>>
>>Yeah, every kid in the world would MUCH rather play at 'saving the
>>planet' than driving around Hollywood in a convertible!
>
>
> SO kids can play all their want. I wish I would have had study tech and
> other L. Ron Hubbard tech when I was little.
It's hard to imagine why you would want this. Would you be more sane, or
more crazy now? For instance, I wonder what you would have changed about
this wonderful little spurt of incomprehensibility:
"If you want to be babbled, you have to address them for some loads of
babbles. I don't pass out any babbles or schwarzed, not for free and
not against payment."
That's a hella argument against calling you Babbles, innit!
>
> --
> Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark (Marty) Rathbun. No
> impostor, please!)
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
>
> --
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
> (I am concerned about Dave Touretzky's activities. He also has bomb
> instructions on the net)
> http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
>
> Victoria (Tory) Christman was on drugs and also experimented with
> heroin. If not for Scientology, she might have died. She now defames L.
> Ron Hubbard, Scientology and Scientologists who salvaged her from her
> destructive "lifestyle".
> http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/_vti_bin/shtml.dll/search.html
>
> "I made my typical, totally evaluative decision without ANY real
> facts."
> Tory Christman, 27 Jun 2001, Message-ID:
> <3B3A9693...@worldnet.att.net
>
rockyslammer
their *parents* who will disconnect from them. I'm certain the kids
just want a real life and get along with everyone. However once they
criticize what their parents are doing or their parents become a non
existant PTS to them then the parents have no choice to disconnect.
Otherwise their *bridge* will be withdrawn from them.
I count myself extremely lucky that the sea org was invented when I
first came in. By the time it was I was a little more grown up and had
a character of my own. When I saw what went on (on occasion) in the
sea org I wondered how people could treat other people so inhumanely -
all in the name of "spiritual freedom". I excused it by saying bthat
when it "matured" they would be better. Here we are some 35 years
later and it has only got worse. Doesn't that indicate anything to
you??
Hey kids - my daughter went to Spain last weekend for a gig!! Tonight
she is doing a gig in fancy dress. To think she could very easily have
been a sea org kid!! Next week she will spend a week with her horses
on the "ranch". Just think you too could have what you *deserve* - all
it takes is getting a real life with real people. I'm serious - think
about it. Not for me but for you.
Zinj
rockys...@postmaster.co.uk says...
Congrats to your daughter (and to you).
Still, I think it's important to stress that the Sea Org, Billion Year
Contract and all, does *not* only recruit 18-year-olds, but, at least seems
to still be recruiting younger; down to 14 in some cases.
Naturally, these victims are almost universally the children of
Scientologists, but it's still happening.
As far as I know the 'theoretical' youngest age for the Sea Org is 10, and,
as far as I know, this is no longer common practice; not since the early 90s
at least. (Who knows what 'uncommon practice' is in Scientology?)
But, 18 is not now, nor has it ever been any kind of 'lower limit'.
Since Scientology is a 'secret society', they don't release any information
on the make up of the 'super sekrit' Sea Org, or, even more, the Commodore's
Messenger Organization.
Zinj
--
Scientology: The Science of Believing Anything You Like
This is the 'Tech' This is the Session.
rockyslammer
> I count myself extremely lucky that the sea org was invented when I
Bugger - this should *wasn't* invented. Sorry
Zinj
zinj...@yahoo.com says...
<snip>
> Congrats to your daughter (and to you).
> Still, I think it's important to stress that the Sea Org, Billion Year
> Contract and all, does *not* only recruit 18-year-olds, but, at least seems
> to still be recruiting younger; down to 14 in some cases.
>
> Naturally, these victims are almost universally the children of
> Scientologists, but it's still happening.
>
> As far as I know the 'theoretical' youngest age for the Sea Org is 10, and,
> as far as I know, this is no longer common practice; not since the early 90s
> at least. (Who knows what 'uncommon practice' is in Scientology?)
>
> But, 18 is not now, nor has it ever been any kind of 'lower limit'.
>
> Since Scientology is a 'secret society', they don't release any information
> on the make up of the 'super sekrit' Sea Org, or, even more, the Commodore's
> Messenger Organization.
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/AstraWoodcraftDeclaration.htm
I, Astra Woodcraft declare as follows:
1. I am over the age of 18 years.
2. The statements herein are of my own personal knowledge and if called upon
as a witness, I can testify competently thereto.
3. I was born in 1978 in London, England. At that time, my mother was a
member of the Church of Scientology.
4. When I was 5 or 6 years old, my mother took me to the Scientology
organization in England called Saint Hill, which is located in East
Grinstead, Sussex. There I received approximately 12 hours of "auditing." The
auditing I received consisted of an "auditor" telling me to "look at that
wall, thank you, walk to that wall, thank you, touch that wall, thank you,
walk away from that wall, thank you," and similar such commands. I was made
to follow these commands on a repetitive basis.
5. When I was growing up in England to the age of seven, my mother would
apply the Scientology technology for sicknesses. When I hurt myself, she
would make me do a "contact assist" which meant that if I hit my elbow, I had
to touch it back to the place where I hit it over and over until it felt
better and I wasn't allowed to stop until it felt better. If I was ill, my
mother gave me a "touch assist" where I would lie down and close my eyes and
she would touch me with her finger and ask, "feel my finger." This was also
done until I felt better. I never felt better from theses processes but would
have to pretend I did because she wouldn't stop until I said I felt good.
6. Throughout my years in scientology, in all the auditing I received I never
felt good at the end. I made up wins to get it over with and generally felt
relief that it was over and dread that I would have to have another session.
I kept this secret always because it is scientology policy that if a person
does not get gain from auditing, it means they are a suppressive person.
7. In 1986, when I was seven years old, my mother's father died. He left her
some money and she used it to go to "Flag" which is the highest-level
Scientology delivery organization in the world, located in Clearwater,
Florida. While she was there, she was recruited for the Sea Organization
which is where people dedicate their entire life, and supposedly the next
billion years of their lifetimes, for the purpose of "clearing the planet"
which means getting everyone into Scientology and processed to the level of
"Clear." She called and told us she had joined after she had already started
working there. She told us we all needed to join, that we were moving to Flag
to live in a beautiful apartment, that we kids would go to a very good
private school and this would all be paid for by Scientology. She
additionally told us that her and my dad would get bonuses, time off every
other weekend and family time every evening.
8. When we arrived in 1986 to the Sea Organization in Clearwater, myself, my
brother, my sister and mother all lived in one motel room for several weeks.
Then we were moved into the main living quarters for the Sea Organization
members who had young children called the QI (Quality INN) and at this point
my dad joined us. Again, we lived in one small motel room. All five of us
lived in this room for approximately 3 months, when my brother moved out.
From this point on, the four remaining family members lived in this room for
about a year, wherein I was moved into a dorm with 4 or 5 other girls. In
this dorm, I slept on a couch, as there was no bed for me. I lived there for
another year, which was the remainder of our time in Clearwater.
9. We were never sent to a private school as promised. We instead went to the
local public school. I only recall my mother taking 3 days off out of the two
years we were there. She almost never spent the evening family time with us
(1 ½ hr), but stayed at work across town. After being in Clearwater for about
a year, my father was sent off to help on the renovations of the Sea Org
ship, The Freewinds. As I was moved into a dorm, my father was gone and my
mother didn't take time off to spend with us, I almost never saw my parents.
10. At one point of our time in Clearwater, we went back to England to take
care of our Visas. My father, my brother and I begged my mom not to take us
back to Florida, as we disliked it so much. I spent a lot of my time crying
about it. My mother refused and insisted we return.
11. For the two years that we lived in Clearwater, I went to school until 2
p.m. and then worked at the "Cadet Org" where we did such jobs as cleaning,
etc. On weekends, we would work as well.
12. In 1988, when I was 9 years old, my mother was transferred to middle
management of the Sea Organization, which is located in Los Angeles,
California. When we arrived, my father took a leave of absence so that he
could obtain our Visas and work to pay off debts. When we arrived in Los
Angeles, we were moved into a rundown studio apartment. After living there
for about a month, my father paid for and moved us into a proper apartment.
13. For approximately a year, from the age of 9-10, I was in the Cadet Org in
Los Angeles. This is where the children of Sea Org members go. During the
day, we went to school at a building they had rented where there were two
classrooms; one for older kids and one for younger kids. The teacher was not
a trained or certified teacher, but a trained Scientology "Supervisor." We
had no class lessons, but instead worked straight out of books and were made
to make clay "demonstrations" of what we were studying. If we acted up in
class at all, the supervisor simply threw us out of the room. This happened
to me on several occasions. One time, when I was 10, there was going to be an
inspection of our school. Many of the children were made to stay until about
3 a.m. cleaning up the premises.
14. Every day after school, we were made to work. We were sent to the
basement of one of the main offices for the Sea Organization and made to do
filing, as there were mounds of it piling up. When work ended at
approximately 9-10 p.m., we went to sleep on cots or directly on the floor
with pieces of blankets to keep us warm. When my mom got off work, she picked
me up. From what I recall, this was between 11pm-12am.
15. After being in the Cadet Org for about 1 year, I refused to go back.
Several things happened that caused me to feel this way. A boy who was there
got upset and climbed to the top of a billboard and threatened to jump and
kill himself: another boy threw a cockroach at me and kicked me. My mother
continuously tried to get me to stay but I refused and moved in with my dad.
I did continue to go to their school, but after a few months, I was told that
I either had to work in the Cadet Org or discontinue attending their school.
At this point, my father enrolled me in a private school. It was a
Scientology run school at my mother's insistence.
16. At the Scientology school I attended, which was called "Ability Plus,"
there were again two classrooms, one for younger kids and one for older kids.
There was no proper curriculum and no student had ever graduated from high
school, even though they claimed that you could. There were no class lessons;
we just worked from books and "checksheets". Our "teacher" spent several
hours reading us the science fiction book from L. Ron Hubbard called
"Battlefield Earth."
17. When I was 14 years old, I started doing a Scientology course at the
Celebrity Centre in Hollywood. Soon after, two Sea Org recruiters approached
me. They were recruiting for Bridge Publications, which is a Sea Org
organization. They told me that if I joined their group, I would get paid
minimum wage {which was several hundred a week, a lot of money for a 14 year-
old); that I would not have to wear a uniform like most Sea Org members; and
that I would go to school and finish my education. They also told me that
when I was older and wanted to have children I could. They spent several
hours convincing me including telling me that the only thing stopping me from
joining was my "reactive mind." The recruiter's names were Gavin Potter and
Malcolm Chisholm. I ended up agreeing to join. One of the reasons I agreed to
join was that my mother and brother had persisted in trying to recruit me and
I knew this would make them happy.
18. Soon thereafter, I started on the "Estates Project Force" (EPF), which is
like boot camp for the Sea Org. I started in May of 1993 and was on it for
approximately two weeks. When I first arrived, I was made to fill out a "life
history" form where I had to write down any sexual experiences I had had, all
my friends' names, and dozens of other extremely personal details. I also had
to sign a contract for a billion years. I never got a work permit. My
schedule on the EPF went something like this: 6:30 a.m. wake up and get
dressed; 7:00 a.m. breakfast; 7:30 a.m. muster (meeting); 7:30-8:00 a.m. run
(not walk) around and empty all the ashtrays and trashcans outside three
different buildings; 8:00 a.m.-1:00 p.m. study Sea Org policies; 1:00 p.m.
muster and polish boots; 1:15-1:45 p.m. lunch; 1:45 p.m. muster, drilling and
marching; 2:15 p.m.-7:00 p.m. work, which included cleaning pots and pans,
cleaning out a clogged toilet, sweeping and mopping floors, etc.; 7:00-7:30
p.m. dinner; 7:30-10:00 p.m. more work; 10:00-10:30 p.m. shower; 10:30 p.m.
muster; 11:15 p.m. go to bed. This was a 7-day a week schedule.
19. After I finished the EPF in June of 1993, I started working at Bridge.
The day I started working there, they told me I was being transferred to
another organization for 2 months. I was told that I had no choice but to do
it, as I had no "staff status." I went to work in the International Justice
Chief's office doing secretarial work. I had to wear a military uniform.
After I worked there for approximately three months, I was told that I was
being transferred to another organization permanently and that I again had no
choice as I still had no staff status. The organization I was transferred to
was the International Training Organization. The staff there were on $15 a
week pay as they had no money and the food they were given was beans and
rice. I tried to refuse to go there but was told again and again I had no
choice. Once there, I felt I couldn't survive on the refried beans and rice
we had for every meal, so I took other food that wasn't supposed to be for us
because I was starving. This was considered stealing. This lasted
approximately 1 year.
20. For the first 6 months that I was in the International Training Org (ITO)
I was the Receptionist. I had trouble attending the 6 hours of school that
the minors went to on Saturdays because in order to attend I had to find
someone to replace me on my post. The school here was, again, substandard
with all the approximately 60 kids enrolled in one room with one non-
certified teacher. We had no lessons, no curriculum and no way to graduate:
you just stopped going when you turned 18 or got a GED.
21. Soon after I joined the Sea Org when I was still 14, I started having a
relationship with another Sea Org member named Jason Merrill. Jason was 21.
After two months we were heavily pushed by senior scientology managers to get
married, as in the Sea Org you are not allowed to do anything other than kiss
before you are married and if you do more, you may be sent to the
Rehabilitation Project Force, which means heavy labor for at least a year. In
December of 1993, when I had just turned 15, Jason and I went to Las Vegas
and got married.
22. Once married, the Sea Org did not have a room in which we could live
together so we were instructed to live in our separate dorms until they found
room that we could share and this would take several months. Instead of this,
we decided to stay down the road at Jason's parents house, and we did so for
about four months, knowing we would get into big trouble if we were found out
as it was against policy for sea org members to live outside of church
provided facilities.
23. After about 4 months, the Executive Director International and the
Commanding Officer of the CMO International, who were at the top of the
management of Scientology, came to inspect our organization. They asked me if
I knew anyone who was not living in the Sea Org berthing and I was compelled
to confess that my husband and I were not. We were immediately ordered back
into SO berthing and since there were still no rooms available, we stayed in
a storage closet that was 3/4 full of storage for a week. We slept on the
floor and there were no windows.
24. After a week in the closet, we were moved into a room of our own, but
after 1 week, that room was taken away and we were moved to another building.
We didn't find out we had been moved after other staff members had removed
our belongings. The room we were put into next had a missing windowpane that
was never replaced, very old carpet and peeling paint. We shared the bathroom
with 2 other couples and had no light bulb, no shower curtain and no hot
water the majority of the time. We lived in this room for 6 months.
25. After being the Receptionist at the ITO for 6 months, I was transferred
to the post of Master at Arms and then to Director of Inspections and
Reports. I was in charge of enforcing ethics and justice for the 100 staff in
ITO and the 50-100 students on training. My very first assignment was to
handle a 40 year-old man whose wife had been gone for 2 years on training. He
had been masturbating which is considered "out-ethics" and I was supposed to
make him stop. I was 15 years old.
26. On this post, I also had to handle people who wanted to leave the Sea
Organization. I had to convince them to stay and if they refused, I had to
make them do hard labor and order them to get "confessionals" which often
took up to 6 months or a year to complete before hey were allowed to leave.
One couple wanted to leave and they left without permission twice but came
back. Leaving without permission is called "blowing." I was ordered to put
them under heavy watch because there was no one else to watch them. Since
there was no one else to watch them, I had to do it. I was then ordered to
put a mattress outside their door and tie my arm to the knob while I slept so
they couldn't sneak out. The policy soon became that anyone who wanted to
leave must go under "watch" to stop them from "blowing."
27. I was ordered to do numerous watches while in the Sea Organization.
Anyone who admitted to having thoughts of suicide was immediately put under
watch. I was ordered to do these watches by executives at Religious
Technology Center, CMO and OSA. My husband at the time spent approximately
nine months watching an OT Sea Org member for reasons that were kept secret;
during this time she got pregnant and had a miscarriage. She was under watch
24 hours a day with my husband and another man watching her during the day
and another staff member watching her at night.
28. I was also in charge of investigating and finding the "Suppressive
Person" if a department wasn't producing enough. I had to make people write
up their "overts & withholds" (things they had done that were bad), receive
confessionals, do amends, etc. I had to write a "Suppressive Person" declare
on a lady who had already left with permission but then was ordered to
receive more confessionals and was having trouble getting a ride to come over
and receive them. She was then made to disconnect from family and friends who
were in the Sea Org and her husband was ordered to split up from her, but he
refused.
29. During my time in the Sea Organization I started going to the 6 hour a
week school less and less. I couldn't get anyone to cover my job and got in
trouble for leaving it. Also, the school got reduced even further to all of
us sitting all day in a room doing Spelling and Math bees. By the time I was
16, I was attending sporadically and at 17 I wasn't attending at all. I
didn't think it made any difference since I didn't learn a thing while I was
there. I didn't learn math, history, science, social studies or English. I
just did spelling bees, read a book, etc. After I turned 18, some of the kids
got to go take their GED, but because I was over 18 I didn't get to do it
since there was "no reason" as I no longer legally had to attend school. It
was well known that the legal minimum for school attendance for a minor is 20
hours a week. We were told this, but the law was blatantly ignored.
30. From the age of 14, I had an official schedule starting at 8:00 a.m. and
ending at 10:00 p.m., but regularly worked later, sometimes until 2 or 3 a.m.
We got 30 minutes for lunch and 45 minutes for dinner and no other breaks. We
regularly were ordered to work during part of our meal times. We sometimes
got into trouble if we went to the canteen when it wasn't our mealtime. The
schedule was 7 days a week, but we got Sunday morning to do our laundry and
clean our rooms. On Saturday's we did labor work, consisting of renovations,
etc. There was a period of 3 weeks or so in 1995 when I was still a minor
where there was a huge evolution to print new policies to revise all the
Scientology technology. (This is known as the "Golden Age of Tech within the
church.) During this time, all staff including minors were ordered to work
around the clock literally to produce these new polices and put them into
binders. My job was to go and wake up any staff who went to sleep and make
them get back to work. I would fall asleep while driving. I got approximately
2 hours of sleep a night during this time, but many times got no sleep for 2
or more days. I was ordered to drive around even though I was falling asleep
and incoherent due to no sleep. One time I parked my car and accidentally
fell asleep and woke up 3 hours later because a meter attendant was knocking
on my window. Once this "evolution" was complete, the staff was rewarded with
a trip to the movies.
31. In approximately 1996, when I was 16 or 17, there was a re organization
done and I became in charge of the ethics and security departments for the
entirety of middle management known as the Flag Liaison Office. One day, the
Chief of Security International, Jeff Porter, came and gave me an order to
get some staff to do security at an event. I didn't do it because I didn't
consider it my job. He then came back and screamed at me, pushed me up
against a wall and screamed at me more while holding me against the wall and
spitting in my face. I complained about this but nothing was done to handle
it.
32. When I was 18, I was transferred to another job in the Data department.
This was because someone said I was not qualified for the job I had been
doing because I had tried marijuana when I was 13 years old. I worked in the
Data department for one year. My senior, Wayne Furness, harassed me on a
regular basis. When I first started working under him, he started calling me
a lesbian and telling me and another girl that we were lesbians. I got very
upset and finally wrote a report to his senior. She told him to stop and
nothing more. He stopped calling me a lesbian, but because I had reported
him, he continued to call me other names such as "Two-ton Tesse" (I was not
in the slightest overweight being 5'6", 130 lbs), telling me I had "soft-
skin", etc. When he would say these things I got upset and then he would say
that I had withholds and to write them up or he would tell me to go to
ethics. He got his other juniors to side with him and tell me that I had
"soft-skin", etc. I reported this behavior but nothing was done because our
department, which Wayne was in charge of, produced a lot and the policy from
L. Ron Hubbard is that if someone's statistics are "up" then they can't get
in trouble no matter what they do. Someone once "looked into" the situation,
but nothing was done.
33. When I worked in the Data department, one of my jobs was to gather the
statistics from around the world on a weekly basis and compile them all and
graph them on the computer. There were approximately 300 organizations and I
had to get each one to report in between 50-200 statistics each week. Every
Thursday we had to get this done and had to stay at work until 3am. We also
only got 5-10 minutes to eat lunch and dinner if at all. Every week there
were, of course, a few organizations that were late reporting or had missing
reports and every week staff from an organization called CMO International
would write to me on a system similar to instant messaging getting
progressively angrier as the day went on and there were missing reports. They
would call us if they got really mad. I had to sit and answer their questions
about where the reports were from 8am until about 9pm at night. I was told
things like "You are fucking counter-intention," and "You are stopping these
reports coming in," and other such expressions if any reports were late. They
would also call me and my senior and scream and swear at us. Screaming and
swearing is the regular way that seniors get juniors to do things in the Sea
Organization. I was screamed and sworn at on a regular basis while I was in
the Sea Organization.
34. There were a series of policies implemented by management while I worked
in the Sea Org. When I had been there for a few months, our Commanding
Officer made a new rule that no one could leave the building without her
permission. Then I was told that I was not allowed to see my dad and have
dinner with him without a specific reason and special permission. After about
a year they told us that we were not allowed to eat anywhere but in the
building nor were we to eat any food other than that provided. We were not
allowed to go next door for pizza or anything. After about 3 years, we were
told that we could not use our Sunday morning laundry time for anything else
either, i.e., seeing our family, parents seeing their kids, or anything.
35. At around this time, another new policy was issued stating that no one
could make or receive any personal calls without someone from the ethics and
security department being with them. Personal calls were not transferred to
us and a list was made each day of all incoming personal calls. This list was
sent to the executives and the Religious Technology Center so that they could
monitor who was being "influenced."
36. My calls from my father were rarely routed to me and instead I would
receive a note 2 or 3 days later telling me he had called. I had to go and
hide in a phone booth to call him. On Christmas Day we were not allowed to go
with our family or do anything other than the planned trip unless we got
special permission, which was sometimes denied.
37. About 9 months before I left I was told that I could never see my father
again unless I was working to get him back into the Sea Organization.
38. We were also made to fill out interrogatories listing out any gifts we
received from family members, who we spoke to and anyone we knew who had left
the Sea Organization. Anyone we were talking to, family or friends, who had
either left Scientology, gave us gifts or money or tried to get us to take
time off, were called 'External Influences" and we were ordered to either
handle them or disconnect from them entirely.
39. The staff was also made to practice how they would handle family members
who inquired about how they were doing, etc. I was instructed to lie to my
father and tell him I was attending school and not working long hours.
40. If a staff member got into trouble they would be assigned "lower
conditions." This meant doing formulas and amends, etc. A new policy came out
after I had been there for a year stating that staff who were in lower
conditions had to sit in the fire escape stairwell or in the trash room to
eat their meals. They also had to do up to 40 hours of amends on their own
time, which was during their meal times or after 10:30 at night. I myself had
to eat in the stairwell and do hours of amends on my sleep or mealtime. We
also were not allowed to watch TV and anyone who had a TV and VCR had it
confiscated and only given to them if they had a day off and wanted to watch
a movie.
41. For the almost 5 years that I was in the Sea Organization, I never got
one day off with my husband other than 2 days when we got married and
Christmas Day. I myself only got approximately 10-15 days off in the 5 years
that I worked there.
42. Approximately 1½ years before I left, a new rule came out stating that if
you got pregnant, you had to either get an abortion, which was heavily
pushed, or leave. The rule had previously been that if you got pregnant, you
had to get an abortion or be sent to a small and failing lower organization
where you had to fend for yourself and your baby. I had to handle any staff
that disagreed with this new rule. I myself disagreed with it because I
wanted children and was told I would be able to have them when I was first
recruited. However, I never said anything for fear of getting into trouble. I
got to the point of being suicidal because I was so unhappy, but I never said
anything because I would have gotten into big trouble and been looked down
upon.
43. In September of 1997, my grandma in England died. I convinced my seniors
that I had to go to her funeral in England. They did not want me to go, but
finally relented and let me take an 8-day leave. When I returned I realized
that I could not take being split apart from my family any longer. I decided
to get pregnant because if I tried to just leave, I would be made to do heavy
labor and confessionals for 6 months to a year and be called a "degraded
being" by the other staff. I got pregnant in January of 1998 and on February
23rd 1998 I left without permission, got on a plane and went to stay with my
aunt and uncle in England. No one knew up until then that I was pregnant and
I was really sick and had to get away. My seniors in Scientology threatened
me that if I didn't come back and receive a confessional I would be declared
a Suppressive Person and my family would never speak to me again. My mother
who is still in the Sea Org called me on a continuous basis telling me to get
an abortion and return.
44. I returned on April 1st, 1998. Jeff Porter told me that if I left again,
I would be declared immediately. I told the security staff there that I would
stay with my father and come in every day for my confessional, explaining
that I needed proper nutrition and they couldn't provide it. They told me
that I had to stay in their berthing or I would be put under a non
enturbulation order, which means that if I caused further trouble, that is if
I still refused to stay in their berthing, I would be declared suppressive. I
then agreed that I would stay there for four days, which is how long my
confessional was supposed to take. The Security Chief wrote me a letters
stating that if I was not done with my confessional within four days, I could
stay with my father until I finished.
45. Four days later I was not done, but I was told that they had only written
the letter to get me to stay in the berthing and that it was not valid.
Therefore, I had to continue to stay in Sea Org berthing and eat micro waved
meals even though I was suffering from morning sickness. I had to sleep on
the floor in a small room while waiting for my confessionals. I was there for
1 month.
46. It took a lot less time for me to leave because they didn't want any of
the other staff to know I was pregnant, so they were trying to get me out
quick. A staff member from the Religious Technology Center (The Sea Org's
highest organization) came up to me one day while I was in the process of
routing out and asked me what I was doing. I told him that I was pregnant and
leaving and he said to me "Oh, too late for an abortion?" I personally knew
of three other girls who got pregnant and were convinced to get abortions.
One was my sister-in-law who was 16 weeks pregnant when she was convinced to
abort her child although she was strongly against it. My mother told my
sister and I that it was good that she got an abortion.
47. Another thing I had to do before being allowed to leave was sign an
affidavit stating that I thought Scientology and the Sea Org were great and
that I was leaving because I couldn't confront bad things I had done. I was
told I could not leave without signing this document and that if I did leave
before signing, I would be declared a suppressive person. I signed it knowing
that it was not legal as it was signed under duress. It was the standard
policy to make anyone who left the Sea Org sign such an affidavit and if you
didn't agree to what they wrote in it, you were sent in for more
confessionals and ethics handlings until you did.
48. For the first few months after I left, I was called to come back in
several times to answer questions for investigations. I was threatened if I
wouldn't come in.
49. When I left, I was given a bill totaling $89,000 for auditing and courses
that I had done while I was in the Sea Org. I have been called approximately
10 times by various staff members including Bob Diskin and Renee Norton
pressuring me to send them money to pay this bill. I have been sent about 20
letters on this subject.
50. When I was about 8 months pregnant, my ex-husband wrote me a letter and
told me that he had decided that he did not want to have anything to do with
our daughter when she was born. He stated that it was because he had to
dedicate all his time to the Sea Organization. When my daughter was 6 months
old, I wrote to him and told him that I needed him to figure out a way to pay
child support, as I was not able to support our daughter. He didn't reply for
6 months, but told his parents to stop seeing our daughter. They had been
seeing her every other weekend up until that point and then I stopped hearing
from them. They, too, are Scientologists. I ended up giving up trying to get
child support from my ex-husband.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of
America and the state of Florida that the foregoing is true and correct.
Executed in Clearwater, Florida this 24th day of January 2001.
Astra Woodcraft
Zinj
--
There is one eternal truth about Scientology:
It's *always* worse than you think. This is a recursive phenomenon.
It's even worse than I think; and worse than I think I think it is.
rockyslammer
I address the 18 year olds and above is that I expect that it would be
only possible for this group to leave.
Certainly it's the younger ones I fear for most, but I don't expect we
can do anything for them at this stage. If govts outlawed home
education and private schools they would have a chance but that isn't
likely.
Zinj
rockys...@postmaster.co.uk says...
How many under-18 Sea Ogres do you think 'live with their parents' ?
Ans: Nobody knows, but, I'd guess practically none.
That does raise the question: How many Sea Org married couples are living
together?
Ans: Probably more than SO parents/families living together, but still,
probably a *very* low number.
The reason I bring this up is not because I disagree with you, but to avoid
any misconception 'wogs' might have that the Sea Organization only recruits
above age 18.
That's not the case.
This thread was started with the intention of addressing the young SO slaves
who may be reading ARS or similar on their 'day off', and, I think it's a
give that, even though their parents may have *allowed* them to join, or even
*pressured* or *forced* them to join, that does not mean that they are bound
to the inherently abusive and illegal contract.
Even in the unlikely event that they *did* live with their parents, there
isn't a court in the US (or, probably the world) that would force them to
remain, regardless of what their parents' wishes were, or whether they 'lived
with them' or not.
The Sea Org is *inherently* abusive.
barbz
Well, NOW I'm envious. I always wanted horses, back then.
OTOH, you don't have to clean up after motorcycles, 2 time a year tuneup
is all. But still...horses...damn.
barbz
The SO members we saw being marched around at our last LA picket were
all pimply teens. Those poor, poor kids.
Xenu refrained from commenting on their bondage as they were hustled
past us on a Saturday afternoon.
I'm sure the cult has tapes.
rockyslammer
ones survive though if they were to leave? Granparents, other
relatives?
At least the older ones can get jobs and accomodation - probably with
some help "adjusting" to real life.
What a problem! How does a society go about really looking after its
most vulnerable?
If the parents are on "mission" or some such garbage then who does look
after these kids? In most of the places I've lived in kid minders have
to be licensed. I doubt this would happen in the sea org.
Do kids in the US have to have precise learning requirements for home
schooling? Who checks this out? What about social workers who's job
it is to monitor kids "at risk"? Do they enter sea org premises to do
their job?
rockyslammer
male horses penis sheath - as you do!!
Horse shit is the *least* of it!!!
Still it is a buzz at flat stick on a thoroughbred. Far better than a
a bike. Actually training kids to ride is FAR better than TR's. The
level of confront & intention projected required to control a horse is
far higher than taught in TR's.
I would just love to see some of these OT's start to ride - and yes
that brown stuff oozing out of their pants would be what you think it
is!
Any kid that can ride well could out TR any scientology kid. Fact.
Zinj
rockys...@postmaster.co.uk says...
> I accept everything you say - it is the truth. How would the younger
> ones survive though if they were to leave? Granparents, other
> relatives?
'Children' in the Sea Org are'nt 'children' as far as the 'Church' is
concerned. They're 'little thetans'. They have their *own* posts. Possibly
some very high ranking Scientology Sea Org members have children living with
them, but, if so, I've never heard of it.
Sea Org parents have their 'post'. Sea Org children have their 'post'.
And, ne'er the twain shall meet...
There is no longer a 'Cadet Org' as far as I know, so the children of current
Sea Org parents are farmed out to relatives or 'friends' or anyone handy as
long as they'll take them. Luckilly, the 'Church' has pretty much eliminated
childbirth in the SO through abortion and heavy ethics, so the problem isn't
quite as pressing.
> At least the older ones can get jobs and accomodation - probably with
> some help "adjusting" to real life.
The younger ones could get help too; but, the 'wog' social system isn't
particularly adequate either, and I'm afraid there's just no simple answer.
Still, at *any* age, leaving the Sea Org, even if it meant foster homes,
would be an improvement. Bear in mind that these Sea Org minors are almost
certainly *not* living with, or under the protection of their parents.
> What a problem! How does a society go about really looking after its
> most vulnerable?
Inadequately.
> If the parents are on "mission" or some such garbage then who does look
> after these kids? In most of the places I've lived in kid minders have
> to be licensed. I doubt this would happen in the sea org.
It's not about whether they're on a mission. I've never heard of Sea Org
kids being 'posted' with their parents; and, Sea Org kids are almost
certainly *not* the children of current Sea Org parents, but, far more
likely, the children of Scientology Pubics, who have offered them up to the
moloch in order to curry favor or expedite their *own* movement 'up The
Bridge'.
There's a lot of pressure on Public (not Sea Org) parents to sign their kids
up; although, few do.
> Do kids in the US have to have precise learning requirements for home
> schooling? Who checks this out? What about social workers who's job
> it is to monitor kids "at risk"? Do they enter sea org premises to do
> their job?
'Home Schooling' has rules and regulations, but, the Sea Org kids don't
*live* at home. There *are* no Sea Org homes.
There are social workers/agencies who are supposed to be monitoring these
things, but, *they don't*.
The 'Church' has been fairly successful so far in *not* coming under
scrutiny.
A picture of a happy 'Sea Org Family' sitting down to a Norman Rockwell
evening after a busy day of 'Clearing the Planet' would be as ridiculous as a
portrait of Xenu. It doesn't exist.
Larry T.
news:1148078238.3...@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I always remember my daughter at seven years old cleaning up inside a
> male horses penis sheath - as you do!!
Could this girl {your daughter} have been following an example already
set for her by someone else?
--
http://mysite.verizon.net/toomajan
Larry
(SNIP)
rockyslammer
up any horses penis parts - or any other part either!!
I started to ride after my daughter started. I took it up when my
daughter wanted to. I am not a natural - sorry to say and this
includes "cleaning bits and pieces".
Mind you my female business partner is very horsey. I often think she
enjoyed this part of horsewomanship. She is very willing to lend a
hand when the stallion services the mare!
Zinj
rockys...@postmaster.co.uk says...
> I don't know what you are saying! Certainly I have never had my hand
> up any horses penis parts - or any other part either!!
It's just Larry. Nobody knows whether he's the most outrageous OSA Op to
date or just a bizarrely pitiful example of Scientology Training.
I don't even know myself. On the one hand, he's got the OSA fragrance; but,
on the other, he's so bizarre that my woggy little mind has problems
comprehending what the hell they'd be thinking.
Still; OSA is nothing if not willing to swim in literally pathological shit,
so, I tend to see him as 'agent'.
Decide yourself, but, don't waste too much time.
rockyslammer
> 'Children' in the Sea Org are'nt 'children' as far as the 'Church' is
> concerned. They're 'little thetans'. They have their *own* posts. Possibly
> some very high ranking Scientology Sea Org members have children living with
> them, but, if so, I've never heard of it.
> Sea Org parents have their 'post'. Sea Org children have their 'post'.
> And, ne'er the twain shall meet...
Gosh that's disgusting. When I was around St Hill 25 years ago kids
and parents lived together in married quarters. Farming the kids out
would not have been tolerated. Sea org or no sea org most of the
parents loved their kids even though they would spend a load of time in
the SO nursery being supervised. I remember Morag (then Bellmain)
being one of the nursery carers. Her husband (cenior c/s) probably
wangled the job so she could spend time with her kids.
> Still, at *any* age, leaving the Sea Org, even if it meant foster homes,
> would be an improvement. Bear in mind that these Sea Org minors are almost
> certainly *not* living with, or under the protection of their parents.
Certainly if the parents have negated their responsibilities then, yes,
fostering could help - the younger the better. What bastards! I spit
on the top 10% of the top 10%!!
> It's not about whether they're on a mission. I've never heard of Sea Org
> kids being 'posted' with their parents; and, Sea Org kids are almost
> certainly *not* the children of current Sea Org parents, but, far more
> likely, the children of Scientology Pubics, who have offered them up to the
> moloch in order to curry favor or expedite their *own* movement 'up The
> Bridge'.
> There's a lot of pressure on Public (not Sea Org) parents to sign their kids
> up; although, few do.
That's like selling your kids into slavery. These people don't deserve
their kids and the kids deserve someone who will love and cherish them.
That is the right of every kid.
>
> > Do kids in the US have to have precise learning requirements for home
> > schooling? Who checks this out? What about social workers who's job
> > it is to monitor kids "at risk"? Do they enter sea org premises to do
> > their job?
>
> 'Home Schooling' has rules and regulations, but, the Sea Org kids don't
> *live* at home. There *are* no Sea Org homes.
Can kids just drop out of the system then? Very strange.
> There are social workers/agencies who are supposed to be monitoring these
> things, but, *they don't*.
>
> The 'Church' has been fairly successful so far in *not* coming under
> scrutiny.
Then this should be an avenue for some "action". Rally the troops and
get those newspapers onto the way social services are neglecting those
enslaved kids who don't get a proper education. Knowing how social
services work (another story) they don't like criticism and will do
everything they can to resolve the situation. And boy do these people
have clout! Scientology won't stop them if they have the bit between
their teeth.
>
> A picture of a happy 'Sea Org Family' sitting down to a Norman Rockwell
> evening after a busy day of 'Clearing the Planet' would be as ridiculous as a
> portrait of Xenu. It doesn't exist.
>
> Zinj
> --
> There is one eternal truth about Scientology:
> It's *always* worse than you think. This is a recursive phenomenon.
> It's even worse than I think; and worse than I think I think it is.
As you say - it is even worse than I thought it was. Damn those
bastards. Maybe this is an achillies heel?
rockyslammer
weekend.
I guess I'm a "kids" person. If anything get me all up in a sweat it's
mistreatment of kids.
Larry - settle this once & for all. Who are you??
Zinj
rockys...@postmaster.co.uk says...
<snip>
> As you say - it is even worse than I thought it was. Damn those
> bastards. Maybe this is an achillies heel?
If I'm to interpret the attempts to spam the discussion off the google first
page, I assume they would rather not hear about it.
Zinj
--
'Think For Yourself!' says Scientology; and then adds: 'Don't forget to
pick up your copy of 'What I Think' from the table by the door, before
you leave.'
morgan
news:MPG.1ed830045...@news.day.sbcglobal.net:
> It's just Larry. Nobody knows whether he's the most outrageous OSA Op
> to date or just a bizarrely pitiful example of Scientology Training.
I think he's going the way of BS.
barbz
The last time there was a state visit to child care facilities in CW,
the cult had advance notice; cleaned everything up, provided toys...
It's only an achilles heel if there are no clams in the state chowder.
barbz
> In article <1148086574.3...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> rockys...@postmaster.co.uk says...
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>As you say - it is even worse than I thought it was. Damn those
>>bastards. Maybe this is an achillies heel?
>
>
> If I'm to interpret the attempts to spam the discussion off the google first
> page, I assume they would rather not hear about it.
>
> Zinj
Yeah, well...tomorrow is Saturday...
Zinj
<snip>
> The last time there was a state visit to child care facilities in CW,
> the cult had advance notice; cleaned everything up, provided toys...
> It's only an achilles heel if there are no clams in the state chowder.
Worse. I assume such a 'required' visit would have been in the early '90s or
even earlier. Back when there was a 'Cadet Org'.
There is no longer a Cadet Org. All children of Sea Org members are
'offloaded' onto willing or unwilling family, friends or even sometimes
complete strangers, in order to *avoid* the potential 'PR Flap' inherent in
the 'Church' of Scientology taking responsibility for its own children.
The horrors of the 'Cadet Org' are known (at least some of them), but the
horrors of the offloading of the unabortable because already born children
are yet to tell.
Most end up in Scientologist families who tend to adopt them with whole heart
and care and they are truly lucky.
Because others are simply dumped onto unwilling 'foster' families.
Never. Not at any time, are the caretakers of Sea Org children offered *any*
compensation for their efforts, except, when Scientologists, the 'gratitude'
of the 'Church'.
Which usually translates to extortion and threats.
Since abortion and rejection of *all* child bearing has been de facto in the
Sea Org since the early '90s, there are few children. I don't know how many
Sea Org 'couples' actually 'live together', but, the 'Church' seems to have a
penchant for 'posting' married couples away from each other, and, I doubt
that any significant percentage of couples live together unless they have
some outside income source which makes it convenient for the 'Church' to
allow them to rent their own accomidations.
I'd love to see the 'Church' publish photo albums of Happy Sea Org families,
but... they won't.
There are none.
I fee especially sorry for the children of Scientology Publics who have sold
their children into the Sea Org.
Sure; they can now more assiduously pursue their 'Bridge', but, the actual
horror of Scientology will fall hardest on them.
Strangest of all are perhaps the poor tykes adopted into the Commodore's
Messenger Organization.
They are coddled and primped and get cool apartments and are allowed to drive
cool Cult cars....
But; nothing belongs to them. Ever.
And, they will be offloaded at the first sign of pride.
Scientology's horrors are far more horrid than anything South Park had the
time to show.
Muldoon
Whatever it's called, there would still be an
indoctrination/exploitation function that is equivalent to a "Cadet
Org."
it would seem likely that little has actually changed except for
outward appearances and names.
It was basic Hubbard "philosophy" that children, from age eight (or so)
and up, should work as adults, and, when in the Sea Org, should serve,
and service him, and/or his "Intention."
As you noted, the "Commodore Messengers' Org" still exists.
"Estates Orgs" that use children still exist.
Babies are regarded as an unwanted distraction, and always have been
(except for occasional PR), but older children are viewed as "clay to
be molded" and a resource.
Do you know if the "Cadet Org" (as a fuction) was actually "abolished,"
or just re-named, or re-organized?
Remember, L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology, first and foremost, is very
very sneaky.
Zinj
@dslextreme.com says...
<snip>
> Do you know if the "Cadet Org" (as a fuction) was actually "abolished,"
> or just re-named, or re-organized?
>
> Remember, L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology, first and foremost, is very
> very sneaky.
As far as I know there is no evolved 'Cadet Org'.
There are children in Scientology; from age 14 and up, and possibly younger,
although I have no information on that.
They are *not* considered children, but merely 'little thetans' and have
their own SO contracts, posts and berths. They are *not* assigned with their
parents.
There are numerous Sea Org children (children of Sea Ogres) who live with
relatives (scientologist and not) or even just 'acquaintances'. Anyone who
will take them. As far as I know, no caretakers receive dime one in support
from either their parents or the 'Church'.
There is no education offered to under-18 Sea Orgers, except Scientology
Education, and no oversight by state bodies allowed.
Nor are there any records available of the number of minors working under
'Billion Year Contracts' in the Sea Org, and, I suspect that there are no
public agencies that have any such records or pursue any required oversight.
barbz
Yeah, like the girl who was put into Gabriel William's care. That worked
out real nice for her.
Zinj
<snip>
> What could a person from that background do with a Scn education? Do they
> offer grade-school, jr. high, high-school certifications/diplomas that would
> actually serve them in the 'wog world'? Or is it just so much useless
> flotsam like the rest of the cult's offerings?
Yes. The latter.
rockyslammer
an emotive issue. I'm not into using kids in an exploitative manner
but this would help the kids more than it would harm. I'm away from
home right now but keep this thread going please till I get home
tomorrow!!
I am being defamed and forged here
barbz wrote:
> I am being defamed and forged here wrote:
>
> > barbz wrote:
> >
> >>I am being defamed and forged here wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>barbz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>morgan wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>If Barbzzzzzzzzz or any other anti-religious extremist destroys
> >>>Scientology families with her vicious anti-religious poison, they can
> >>>sue her for all she got and more.
> >>
> >>Let's see...Sea Org kid realizes the Scieno life sucks and quits.
> >
> >
> > This is what your disturbed mind is telling you, Barbzzzzzzzzz Babbles
> > Graham. Kids are minors and they have to do what their parents want not
> > what you, the anti-religious extremist want.
>
> So, what you're saying is that Scientology employs minor children?
> That's illegal!
I can't believe how drunk Barbzzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham posts. With no
word I ever said that SO emloys kids. I just said that parents have the
authorities over their kids and that Barbzzz want to take this
authority away, despite government and court don't. Barbzzzz is above
the law as usually.
> >
> >
> >>Who
> >>then breaks up the family by imposing disconnection? MMM, it ain't me,
> >>Babblie. It's your buddies at the friendly local org!
> >
> >
> > I have no friends who broke up with their families. Tory Christman and
> > Ida Camburn did that with their families but they are like you
> > anti-religious extremist. You just mentioned that you want children (!)
> > to quit Scientology, in other words, you want kid to run away. If a kid
> > would do that and gets harmed, you have to carry the legal
> > responsibility as you made the kids (if any should be so dumb and
> > listen to you) leave their parents and run off!
>
> Dear, those kids at AOLA don't live at home. If their folks are also SO,
> they don't even have a home life.
The SO is their home. They have food and apartments there.
>If they're minors, they shouldn't be
> working for Scientology. If they're over 18, they're old enough to make
> their own decisions. Your argument is not only spurious, it's stoopid.
Kids don't work in the SO. They live there with their parents.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>Why is Barbzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham trying to influence children
> >>>against their parents? I am sure there are laws against it.
> >>
> >>Are you saying the Sea Org hires minor children, Babbles? I KNOW there
> >>are laws against that!
> >
> >
> > Can't you speak English or what? Where did I write that the SO hires
> > kids, Babbles Graham?
>
> Word clear 'minor,' dumb fuck!
What a primitive language! Yes, they are minor and you have no
authority to alianate kids from their parents. There are laws against
that, stupid Barbzzzzzzzzzzz. You have no clue about laws.
> >
> >>>However, I think most Sea Org kids would never fall for Barbzzzzzzzz
> >>>misunderstandings on Scientology. They know it better than she does.
> >>
> >>Yeah, every kid in the world would MUCH rather play at 'saving the
> >>planet' than driving around Hollywood in a convertible!
> >
> >
> > SO kids can play all their want. I wish I would have had study tech and
> > other L. Ron Hubbard tech when I was little.
>
> It's hard to imagine why you would want this. Would you be more sane, or
> more crazy now? For instance, I wonder what you would have changed about
> this wonderful little spurt of incomprehensibility:
>
> "If you want to be babbled, you have to address them for some loads of
> babbles. I don't pass out any babbles or schwarzed, not for free and
> not against payment."
I can't find this posting. Please post it with headers.
> That's a hella argument against calling you Babbles, innit!
> >
> > --
> > Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark (Marty) Rathbun. No
> > impostor, please!)
> > http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
> >
> > --
> > http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
> > (I am concerned about Dave Touretzky's activities. He also has bomb
> > instructions on the net)
> > http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
> >
> > Victoria (Tory) Christman was on drugs and also experimented with
> > heroin. If not for Scientology, she might have died. She now defames L.
> > Ron Hubbard, Scientology and Scientologists who salvaged her from her
> > destructive "lifestyle".
> > http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/_vti_bin/shtml.dll/search.html
> >
> > "I made my typical, totally evaluative decision without ANY real
> > facts."
> > Tory Christman, 27 Jun 2001, Message-ID:
> > <3B3A9693...@worldnet.att.net
You participated in death threats, you have dreams/imaginiations in
which you kill or want to kill Scientologists, you drive drunk, you
make a prohibited weapon, you think a crime is just a crime when you
are being caught. It shows what a quack Ulf Bret$tam is by not telling
you that you are insane.
Barbara Schwarz
HOW DAVID TOURETZKY CENSORED MY WEBSITE
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/touretzky/
CMU STUDENTS' WEBSITE ON DAVID TOURETZKY
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/touretzky/alphabetagam...">
JARED L. COHON
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/touretzky/cohon.html">
TORY CHRISTMAN LYING ABOUT HER HUSBAND
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/tory/
MARK EBNER HOLLYWOOD FAILURE
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/ebner/
KOREY JEROME KRUSE
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/kruse/
TILMAN JOERG HAUSHERR
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/tilman/
BRIAN BRUNS
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/bruns/
The LRH FBI Docs page is still the same:
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
I am being defamed and forged here
rockyslammer wrote:
> Barbara S. If the 18 year olds and above do decide to leave it will be
> their *parents* who will disconnect from them.
*** You are wrong. This is off policy. You don't disconnect in such a
case. Just in case where one in the family becomes an anti-religious
extremist, a fanatical enemy who tries to destroy other family members
and their religion, Scientologists disconnect. If an EO advises to
disconnect just because of a PTS A sit, it is off policy.
> I'm certain the kids
> just want a real life and get along with everyone.
In that case, they don't have to fear anything and can go their own way
and being connected to their parents.
>However once they
> criticize what their parents are doing or their parents become a non
> existant PTS to them then the parents have no choice to disconnect.
> Otherwise their *bridge* will be withdrawn from them.
Don't tell me about Scientology. Unlike you, I was on staff and in the
SO.
Disconnection is just the last resort and when somebody becomes an
extremist.
>
> I count myself extremely lucky that the sea org was invented when I
> first came in. By the time it was I was a little more grown up and had
> a character of my own.
I always had a character, it doesn't matter how young I was.
>When I saw what went on (on occasion) in the
> sea org I wondered how people could treat other people so inhumanely -
> all in the name of "spiritual freedom". I excused it by saying bthat
> when it "matured" they would be better. Here we are some 35 years
> later and it has only got worse. Doesn't that indicate anything to
> you??
I haven't been in the SO since a while. However, there are infiltrators
in the orgs who try to make the SO to not the great place as it would
be under L. Ron Hubbard.
>
> Hey kids - my daughter went to Spain last weekend for a gig!! Tonight
> she is doing a gig in fancy dress. To think she could very easily have
> been a sea org kid!! Next week she will spend a week with her horses
> on the "ranch". Just think you too could have what you *deserve* - all
> it takes is getting a real life with real people. I'm serious - think
> about it. Not for me but for you.
Why do you think that SO parents don't enjoy time with their kids? You
are biased.
Anyway, there laws and alienation. Barbzzzzzzzzz tried to get minor
kids against their parents and tries to alienate them. Go to legal
websites and read up on it. What Barbzzzzz Graham is doing with the
campaign is illegal, could be even another felony.
As no judge ruled parents unfit, under the law, Barbzzzz commits crimes
by trying to make kids hate their parents and upbringing.
Zinj
Stilllov...@myway.com says...
>
> barbz wrote:
> > I am being defamed and forged here wrote:
<snip>
> The SO is their home. They have food and apartments there.
>
> >If they're minors, they shouldn't be
> > working for Scientology. If they're over 18, they're old enough to make
> > their own decisions. Your argument is not only spurious, it's stoopid.
>
> Kids don't work in the SO. They live there with their parents.
*Bullshit*
Keith Henson
<rockys...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote:
>
(Zinj wrote)
>> It's not about whether they're on a mission. I've never heard of Sea Org
>> kids being 'posted' with their parents; and, Sea Org kids are almost
>> certainly *not* the children of current Sea Org parents, but, far more
>> likely, the children of Scientology Pubics, who have offered them up to the
>> moloch in order to curry favor or expedite their *own* movement 'up The
>> Bridge'.
>
>> There's a lot of pressure on Public (not Sea Org) parents to sign their kids
>> up; although, few do.
>
>That's like selling your kids into slavery. These people don't deserve
>their kids and the kids deserve someone who will love and cherish them.
> That is the right of every kid.
The pressure is awful, even on the highest ranking. Kendrick Moxon,
internal lawyer for the cult had kids. Other than DM you can't get
higher. Moxon was named as a co-conspirator in the case where 11 of
them went to jail. He managed to keep his kids out of the Sea Org
till they were old enough he could no longer control them.
I think he and his GO wife (incidentally 10 years older than him) had
three kids. I think, but am not sure, there were two girls and a boy.
For a long time there were rumors about the boy being out of the cult
and very much at odds with his parents. But more recently Brian Moxon
has shown up in one of the scientology operations staffed entirely by
Sea Org.
Picture here: www.galaxypress.com/contact.html
Moxon's daughter Stacy was recruited into the CMO. I forget how it
ranks compared to the Sea Org, but she was working as a gardener at
Int.
One Sunday morning, June 2000, it was claimed she put a 6 foot
stepladder in an 8 foot deep hot transformer vault full of bare wires
and went in to rescue a ground squirrel.
I think she was sent in to inspect for squirrels by Becket Wells, who
was RPFed (according to blownforgood) for leaving the cover open.
Of course one of the people at Int swore under oath to an OSHO
investigator that the cover was on.
Assuming the story of Becket Wells telling her the previous day about
how dangerous the vault was is true, suicide is another possibility.
She had been denied a chance to visit her family (and husband she did
not live with?) that weekend.
I hope Robert K. Schwarz reads this post. Robert Schwarz prosecuting
me for trying to expose two murders out there that year reserves him a
special place in Internet hell. Robert, your kid is going to be
reading this someday and asking questions.
That also applies to Tom Gage and Grover Trask.
May the taint be with you!
Keith Henson
rockyslammer
> *** You are wrong. This is off policy. You don't disconnect in such a
> case. Just in case where one in the family becomes an anti-religious
> extremist, a fanatical enemy who tries to destroy other family members
> and their religion, Scientologists disconnect. If an EO advises to
> disconnect just because of a PTS A sit, it is off policy.
>
Barbara - I have never known any org that actually applied policy
properly. Policy was only ever a tool to misapply and to damage a
person with.
I have known SP declares on perfectly innocent people. I have seen
disconnection applied in unbelievable circumstances. You are wrong.
> In that case, they don't have to fear anything and can go their own way
> and being connected to their parents.
I wish it were that easy. Pressure is put on the kids to come back in
and this is done by disconnection.
>
> Don't tell me about Scientology. Unlike you, I was on staff and in the
> SO.
You don't know me or who I am. Certainly the sea org didn't appeal but
I have been of staff.
> Disconnection is just the last resort and when somebody becomes an
> extremist.
You are incorrect - it is used to pressure people into returning
amongst other things
>
> I always had a character, it doesn't matter how young I was.
Yes - you do have a "character"!!
I haven't been in the SO since a while. However, there are
infiltrators
> in the orgs who try to make the SO to not the great place as it would
> be under L. Ron Hubbard.
I was around whilst hubbard was alive - you are wrong - it was just as
bad then.
> Why do you think that SO parents don't enjoy time with their kids? You
> are biased.
There would seem to be some evidence that this is no longer true.
Certainly 25 years ago it was tru but maybe not now. I am not biased -
I just think kids should be given love and care.
> Anyway, there laws and alienation. Barbzzzzzzzzz tried to get minor
> kids against their parents and tries to alienate them. Go to legal
> websites and read up on it. What Barbzzzzz Graham is doing with the
> campaign is illegal, could be even another felony.
>
If kids are with theirr parents and happy I agree with you. If however
they have been abandoned then something should be done to help them.
Simple as that.
> As no judge ruled parents unfit, under the law, Barbzzzz commits crimes
> by trying to make kids hate their parents and upbringing.
If kids aren't with their parents then Barbz has a point - does she
not?
The innocent need protection Barbara. If it is true that they are in
servitude then it is wrong. If they are enslaved it is wrong. If they
are unloved it is wrong. If they are not cared for it is wrong. If
thery are given every opportunity it is wrong.
Am I wrong?
barbz
> barbz wrote:
>
>>I am being defamed and forged here wrote:
>>
>>
>>>barbz wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am being defamed and forged here wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>barbz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>morgan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>If Barbzzzzzzzzz or any other anti-religious extremist destroys
>>>>>Scientology families with her vicious anti-religious poison, they can
>>>>>sue her for all she got and more.
>>>>
>>>>Let's see...Sea Org kid realizes the Scieno life sucks and quits.
>>>
>>>
>>>This is what your disturbed mind is telling you, Barbzzzzzzzzz Babbles
>>>Graham. Kids are minors and they have to do what their parents want not
>>>what you, the anti-religious extremist want.
>>
>>So, what you're saying is that Scientology employs minor children?
>>That's illegal!
>
>
> I can't believe how drunk Barbzzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham posts. With no
> word I ever said that SO emloys kids. I just said that parents have the
> authorities over their kids and that Barbzzz want to take this
> authority away, despite government and court don't. Barbzzzz is above
> the law as usually.
No, Babbles, you didn't. What you SAID was, "Kids are minors..."
No duh, dumbass, underscore the obvious a little more. However, and try
to keep up here, the post was addressed to kids working in the Sea Org,
the kids who sneak out for a peek at the internet on weekends.
What part of 'minor children' and 'working for the Sea Org' is giving
you comprehension problems, Babbles? Don't give me this "I just said
that parents have the authorities over their kids" backpedal. No.
Uh-uh, I ain't buyin that missy. That wasn't the discussion. Sea Org.
Kids. Working as underage minors. You gettin it yet, you babbling freak?
>
>>>
>>>>Who
>>>>then breaks up the family by imposing disconnection? MMM, it ain't me,
>>>>Babblie. It's your buddies at the friendly local org!
>>>
>>>
>>>I have no friends who broke up with their families. Tory Christman and
>>>Ida Camburn did that with their families but they are like you
>>>anti-religious extremist. You just mentioned that you want children (!)
>>>to quit Scientology, in other words, you want kid to run away. If a kid
>>>would do that and gets harmed, you have to carry the legal
>>>responsibility as you made the kids (if any should be so dumb and
>>>listen to you) leave their parents and run off!
>>
>>Dear, those kids at AOLA don't live at home. If their folks are also SO,
>>they don't even have a home life.
>
>
> The SO is their home. They have food and apartments there.
Yeah. Eight to a room. Beans and rice. Sometimes a little extra money
for toilet paper. We know. We've met people who've lived through it.
>
>
>>If they're minors, they shouldn't be
>>working for Scientology. If they're over 18, they're old enough to make
>>their own decisions. Your argument is not only spurious, it's stoopid.
>
>
> Kids don't work in the SO. They live there with their parents.
Right, keep lying. The kids to whom the original post was addressed
would probably be surprised to learn they don't work in the Sea Org,
don't you think?
And they might just go, "Hey! This Scientology spokesthing is LYING!"
And they might just leave because they can see that you're lying your
withered face off. How cool is that?
HEY KIDS, DO YOU WORK IN THE SEA ORG? MORE IMPORTANTLY, DO YOU HAVE YOUR
OWN BEDROOM?
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Why is Barbzzzzzzzzzz Babbles Graham trying to influence children
>>>>>against their parents? I am sure there are laws against it.
>>>>
>>>>Are you saying the Sea Org hires minor children, Babbles? I KNOW there
>>>>are laws against that!
>>>
>>>
>>>Can't you speak English or what? Where did I write that the SO hires
>>>kids, Babbles Graham?
>>
>>Word clear 'minor,' dumb fuck!
>
>
> What a primitive language! Yes, they are minor and you have no
> authority to alianate kids from their parents. There are laws against
> that, stupid Barbzzzzzzzzzzz. You have no clue about laws.
You claim that kids don't work in the Sea Org. However, I addressed the
original post to kids who DO work in the Sea Org. Since you claim that
the Sea Org doesn't employ minor children, I MUST BE TALKING TO KIDS WHO
ARE 18 OR OLDER!
So why don't you just shut the fuck up, Babbles? Obviously I'm not
addressing minor children who DON'T work for the Sea Org, right?
So what the hell are you nattering on about?
>
>
>>>>>However, I think most Sea Org kids would never fall for Barbzzzzzzzz
>>>>>misunderstandings on Scientology. They know it better than she does.
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, every kid in the world would MUCH rather play at 'saving the
>>>>planet' than driving around Hollywood in a convertible!
>>>
>>>
>>>SO kids can play all their want. I wish I would have had study tech and
>>>other L. Ron Hubbard tech when I was little.
>>
>>It's hard to imagine why you would want this. Would you be more sane, or
>>more crazy now? For instance, I wonder what you would have changed about
>>this wonderful little spurt of incomprehensibility:
>>
>>"If you want to be babbled, you have to address them for some loads of
>>babbles. I don't pass out any babbles or schwarzed, not for free and
>>not against payment."
>
>
> I can't find this posting. Please post it with headers.
Aww, what'd you do, Babbles? Cancel this post? You know you wrote it. "I
can't find this posting..." Puh-leeze! <snort>
Lame, Babbles. Really lame. Were you posting while drunk or having a
psychotic episode, and later decided to remove it?
Heh heh...
>
>
>>That's a hella argument against calling you Babbles, innit!
>>
>>>--
>>>Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark (Marty) Rathbun. No
>>>impostor, please!)
barbz
Oh, I think Scientology is doing a good job of that without any help
from me...
barbz
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "barbz" <xenu...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:25Ybg.728$sP1.115@fed1read07...
> Babbles is REALLLY starting to crash and burn, it appears. I just
> hope that there is someone caring there to pick her up and get her
> the real help that she seems to badly need. Hopefully, she will be
> clear headed enough to accept it.
>
> I say this not to mock or deride but in a sincere and honest manner.
Nah, been reading her for years. It's just business as usual for Babblin
Babs. No better, no worse. If you really want to waste some time and
brain cells, go back through her reams of posts.
(WARNING: your grip on sanity may be dislodged by excessive Schwarz
exposure!)
>
>
>>>
>>>>That's a hella argument against calling you Babbles, innit!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark (Marty) Rathbun.
>>>>>No impostor, please!)
>>
>
> Yours in Enturbulating Entheta,
>
> Lord Xenu
> Your Friendly Galactic Overseer
> ===
> http://www.xenu.net
> http://www.whyaretheydead.net
> http://www.lermanet.com
> http://www.ahbl.org/notices/barbschwarz.php
> http://www.scientomogy.info/index.html#NEW
> http://tinyurl.com/lcaqv
> http://www.torymagoo.org
> http://www.xenutv.com
> ======================
> ¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> Lord Xenu © <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
>
> iQA/AwUBRHB8TAfIkDIChKGyEQJnggCdHqGYkFleGkHndYb5SGsW3YFi1EIAoPm0
> p/8DBsG17hTprKxc2TIZ2H0R
> =klmC
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Keith Henson
<xenu.o...@gmail.com> wrote:
>X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>"Zinj" <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:MPG.1ed868065...@news.day.sbcglobal.net...
>> In article <F1xbg.42$Fc1...@fe07.lga>, xenu.o...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> What could a person from that background do with a Scn education? Do they
>>> offer grade-school, jr. high, high-school certifications/diplomas that
>>> would
>>> actually serve them in the 'wog world'? Or is it just so much useless
>>> flotsam like the rest of the cult's offerings?
>>
>> Yes. The latter.
>>
>
>It amazes me that the government could not make a move to protect children
>from such neglect. All the Scn education seems to do is simply to prepare
>for a life of blind obediance and subserviance to the cult. It doesn't prep
>them for anything else of any objective worth. I am not saying public or
>private education are the best systems in the world but practically anything
>would be a step up from this Sea Org indoctrination. I could see being
>raised by wolves as being a better option for them, frankly.
>
>All of this information about the Sea Org and their abuses should have some
>serious 'legs' to it. If that message could be gotten out to the
>mainstream-media, I think the public outrage could be measured in both
>decibels and on the Richter Scale.
>
>Yes? No? Maybe?
It helps if you remember that scientology crushed the IRS. DM and
Marty Rathbun barged into the commissioner's office and forced the IRS
to give scientology illegal, unconstitutional even, status as the
IRS's "chosen people."
If the IRS could not stand up to such abuse, what gives you the idea
that county child protective services could do any better?
Keith Henson
rockyslammer
the press social workers will have no choice but to act. I'm not
pretending it will be the death knell of the sea org but a few kid's
lives might be made better and the resulting bad pr will help the
overall effort. Nobody likes child abusers. In my opinion this issue
is far hotter than a tax status issue.
I am being defamed and forged here
barbz wrote:
> I am being defamed and forged here wrote:
>
> > barbz wrote:
I am not wasting my time with repeating myself to a person like you,
Barbzzzz Babbles Graham who posted that she posts always drunk. Fact is
that only judges have the authority to rule if somebody is an unfit
parent or if an environment is unfit for kids. It is not up to
intoxicated yourself or other extremists.
Fact is that you try to alienate children from Scientologists against
their parents and that means that you are violating the laws once
again. Any Scientologist with a kid can sue you now.
Barbara Schwarz
The LRH FBI FOIA page
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
--
HOW DAVID TOURETZKY CENSORED MY WEBSITE
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/touretzky/
CMU STUDENTS' WEBSITE ON DAVID TOURETZKY
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/touretzky/alphabetagamma.html
JARED L. COHON
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/touretzky/cohon.html
TORY CHRISTMAN LYING ABOUT HER HUSBAND
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/tory/
MARK EBNER HOLLYWOOD FAILURE
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/ebner/
KOREY JEROME KRUSE
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/kruse/
He spams and defames with different sock puppets as Simkatu and Lord
Xenu and others
barbz
> barbz wrote:
>
>>I am being defamed and forged here wrote:
>>
>>
>>>barbz wrote:
>
>
> I am not wasting my time with repeating myself to a person like you,
> Barbzzzz Babbles Graham who posted that she posts always drunk. Fact is
> that only judges have the authority to rule if somebody is an unfit
> parent or if an environment is unfit for kids. It is not up to
> intoxicated yourself or other extremists.
You are such a liar! I never posted anything like that, except in your
sick delusional fantasies. You did, however, post this gem last week,
"If you want to be babbled, you have to address them for some loads of
babbles. I don't pass out any babbles or schwarzed, not for free and
not against payment."
>
> Fact is that you try to alienate children from Scientologists against
> their parents and that means that you are violating the laws once
> again. Any Scientologist with a kid can sue you now.
Yeah? And anyone with a boot can kick your bony ass! Doesn't mean it's
gonna happen, Babbles!
>
> Barbara Schwarz
> The LRH FBI FOIA page
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
> --
> HOW DAVID TOURETZKY CENSORED MY WEBSITE
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/touretzky/
> CMU STUDENTS' WEBSITE ON DAVID TOURETZKY
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/touretzky/alphabetagamma.html
>
> JARED L. COHON
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/touretzky/cohon.html
> TORY CHRISTMAN LYING ABOUT HER HUSBAND
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/tory/
> MARK EBNER HOLLYWOOD FAILURE
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/ebner/
> KOREY JEROME KRUSE
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/kruse/
> He spams and defames with different sock puppets as Simkatu and Lord
> Xenu and others
> TILMAN JOERG HAUSHERR
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/tilman/
> BRIAN BRUNS
> http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/extremists/bruns/
>
I am being defamed and forged here
The Marty Rathbun who I know has very fine manners. He doesn't barge in
offices and force people to illegal actions. That sounds rather like
your character, Keith Henson, fugitive of American justice. You are
still hiding in Canada despite the deportation order, aren't you?
Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark [Marty] Rathbun. No
impostor, please!)
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
--
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
(I am concerned about Dave Touretzky's activities. He also has bomb
instructions on the net.)
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
Barbzzzzz Graham, is the selfproclaimed "chaplain" of an allegedly
non-existing organization named ARSCC that doesn't pay taxes. But if
they don't exist, how come they have a Chief Financial Officer (jail
bird Korey Jerome Kruse aka Simkatu) who works and travels on behalf of
ARSCC?
Barbara Graham in her own words: "Anything's legal if you don't get
caught." More:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/graham1.html
Keith Henson
<rockys...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote:
>Taxation is nowhere near as emotive as kids are. If this is "tried" in
>the press social workers will have no choice but to act.
It is more likely to happen now that the press seems to have mostly
gotten over their fear of being lawyered to death. Behar for example
was in deposition for 56 days on the Time article. (Man would I like
to see what they asked him!)
>I'm not
>pretending it will be the death knell of the sea org but a few kid's
>lives might be made better and the resulting bad pr will help the
>overall effort. Nobody likes child abusers. In my opinion this issue
>is far hotter than a tax status issue.
Maybe. But social workers and their bosses are humans and taking the
full heat scientology can produce by such matters as framing you for
murder (what they tried on Tom Klemesrud) takes far more dedication
than you would imagine. Heck, the medical examiner and the DA in
Clearwater caved on a murder case.
And it is not like the information on abused children has not been out
there for a long time. The Woodcraft declaration was just posted
recently and there are dozens more, several on the clambake message
board.
But if you can figure a way to report what goes on in the Sea Org to
children, by all means do.
Best wishes,
Keith Henson
rockyslammer
> gotten over their fear of being lawyered to death. Behar for example
> was in deposition for 56 days on the Time article. (Man would I like
> to see what they asked him!)
>From someone who was "deposed" 25 odd years ago I know. However I feel
a change in the air now. You are right - the media are not so
frightened and I know this also from personal experience.
> Maybe. But social workers and their bosses are humans and taking the
> full heat scientology can produce by such matters as framing you for
> murder (what they tried on Tom Klemesrud) takes far more dedication
> than you would imagine. Heck, the medical examiner and the DA in
> Clearwater caved on a murder case.
Maybe they were "bought"? However the media is the area to mobilise -
the social workers would then have no choice and their powers are
awesome.
>
> And it is not like the information on abused children has not been out
> there for a long time. The Woodcraft declaration was just posted
> recently and there are dozens more, several on the clambake message
> board.
As you said earlier the media was frightened of being litigised to
death. Now they are feeling more confident. However the Woodcraft
case is now finished (if I remember) what is needed is something
current and ongoing. A bunch of kids with no parent or guardian, no
proper legal education. Poor living conditions and kids having to work
etc.
>
> But if you can figure a way to report what goes on in the Sea Org to
> children, by all means do.
If it happened here where I live I certainly would. I have done my
best from where I am though. I guess current evidence and specifics
would help - anyone??