3 pages? They ARE pissed!
Valerie
Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
'Fishman'.
Ladies and Gentlemen (sic) of the cult--I am honored to have you place my
name among such names as; Steve Hassan, Gerald Armstrong, Joe Cisar, Mark
Dallara, Ted Mayett, Dave Touretzky, etc etc--not to mention Andreas and
Tilman and Arnie Lerma.
I shall assume your recent payment of a Private Investigator to buzz my home
was in part to take pictures of me--I'm sure they aren't Glamour Shots. I'll
add a Rolaid to my aspirin.
Nevertheless, and despite the fact that I know it's beyond the capability of
your closed little minds to comprehend, I will celebrate what you mistakenly
think is ignominy today--because the more you attack me, the more good I
know I'm accomplishing, and the more people I know I'm reaching, on the
Internet and in person. And I'll say now, what countless others have said as
you have attcked them;
Bite me.
Valerie Emanuel
--
L. Ron Hubbard's reaction upon hearing of his son's death was, "That stupid
f**king kid! That stupid f**king kid! Look what he's done to me!" (Source:
"Bare Faced Messiah" by Russell Miller, Chapter 20, P. 344
http://www.scientology-kills.org
arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
wrote:
>But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
>
>Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
>religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
>'Fishman'.
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen (sic) of the cult--I am honored to have you place my
>name among such names as; Steve Hassan, Gerald Armstrong, Joe Cisar, Mark
>Dallara, Ted Mayett, Dave Touretzky, etc etc--not to mention Andreas and
>Tilman and Arnie Lerma.
>
>I shall assume your recent payment of a Private Investigator to buzz my home
>was in part to take pictures of me--I'm sure they aren't Glamour Shots. I'll
>add a Rolaid to my aspirin.
>
>Nevertheless, and despite the fact that I know it's beyond the capability of
>your closed little minds to comprehend, I will celebrate what you mistakenly
>think is ignominy today--because the more you attack me, the more good I
>know I'm accomplishing, and the more people I know I'm reaching, on the
Damn straight, you got that right, I send freinds and clients to
those pages and they come back going...
Man, what did you DO to piss THOSE Assholes off?
Caps are attempt to reflect vocal emphasis in original...
>Internet and in person. And I'll say now, what countless others have said as
>you have attcked them;
>
>Bite me.
Ditto
Arnie Lerma
>
>Valerie Emanuel
>
>--
>L. Ron Hubbard's reaction upon hearing of his son's death was, "That stupid
>f**king kid! That stupid f**king kid! Look what he's done to me!" (Source:
>"Bare Faced Messiah" by Russell Miller, Chapter 20, P. 344
>http://www.scientology-kills.org
>
>
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the new millennium
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind
Support http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
roger gonnet
"Valerie" <post...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:oqcib.23384$Eo2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
>
> Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
> religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
> 'Fishman'.
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen (sic) of the cult--I am honored to have you place my
> name among such names as; Steve Hassan, Gerald Armstrong, Joe Cisar, Mark
> Dallara, Ted Mayett, Dave Touretzky, etc etc--not to mention Andreas and
> Tilman and Arnie Lerma.
>
> I shall assume your recent payment of a Private Investigator to buzz my
home
> was in part to take pictures of me--I'm sure they aren't Glamour Shots.
I'll
> add a Rolaid to my aspirin.
>
> Nevertheless, and despite the fact that I know it's beyond the capability
of
> your closed little minds to comprehend, I will celebrate what you
mistakenly
> think is ignominy today--because the more you attack me, the more good I
> know I'm accomplishing, and the more people I know I'm reaching, on the
> Internet and in person. And I'll say now, what countless others have said
as
> you have attcked them;
>
> Bite me.
Bwhahaha! It's a long way indeed to get one's libel place in this infamous
hate page of them scientologists.
Bravo, Val, for this long run.
roger>
>
roger gonnet
hateful OSAers say:
"
"She appears to be one of those few individuals who manage to twist the
teachings of Jesus Christ to justify their hatred of other religions and
motivate vicious attacks against them. Ironically, many of the extremists
she associates with on Internet newsgroups are virulent anti-Christians who
preach the same degree of intolerance toward Christianity as Emanuel
practices against the Scientology religion."
I'd bet they can't find a lot of "anti-christian" quotes from the other some
fifty critics they are libeling here.
Unless it happens to be their good stirred-up friends o, likedangerous
pseudo-christian cults like Moonies, or best, The People's Temple (930
deaths) !
True enough, scientology has links with christian fundamentalists, extremist
islamists, ultra-politicians, antisemites, abnd various other madmen
encumbering the lives of many billions of Homo Sapiens.
roger
"Valerie" <post...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:oqcib.23384$Eo2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Kim P
Valerie wrote:
> But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
>
> Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
> religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
> 'Fishman'.
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen (sic) of the cult--I am honored to have you place my
> name among such names as; Steve Hassan, Gerald Armstrong, Joe Cisar, Mark
> Dallara, Ted Mayett, Dave Touretzky, etc etc--not to mention Andreas and
> Tilman and Arnie Lerma.
>
> I shall assume your recent payment of a Private Investigator to buzz my home
> was in part to take pictures of me--I'm sure they aren't Glamour Shots. I'll
> add a Rolaid to my aspirin.
>
> Nevertheless, and despite the fact that I know it's beyond the capability of
> your closed little minds to comprehend, I will celebrate what you mistakenly
> think is ignominy today--because the more you attack me, the more good I
> know I'm accomplishing, and the more people I know I'm reaching, on the
> Internet and in person. And I'll say now, what countless others have said as
> you have attcked them;
>
> Bite me.
>
> Valerie Emanuel
>
No pics yet Valerie ;-)
I went to the site and now they have IRC logs there as well. Hmmm
Interesting...
Kim P
Magoo
"Valerie" <post...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oqcib.23384$Eo2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
>
> Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
> religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
> 'Fishman'.
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen (sic) of the cult--I am honored to have you place my
> name among such names as; Steve Hassan, Gerald Armstrong, Joe Cisar, Mark
> Dallara, Ted Mayett, Dave Touretzky, etc etc--not to mention Andreas and
> Tilman and Arnie Lerma.
>
> I shall assume your recent payment of a Private Investigator to buzz my
home
> was in part to take pictures of me--I'm sure they aren't Glamour Shots.
I'll
> add a Rolaid to my aspirin.
>
> Nevertheless, and despite the fact that I know it's beyond the capability
of
> your closed little minds to comprehend, I will celebrate what you
mistakenly
> think is ignominy today--because the more you attack me, the more good I
> know I'm accomplishing, and the more people I know I'm reaching, on the
> Internet and in person. And I'll say now, what countless others have said
as
> you have attcked them;
>
> Bite me.
>
> Valerie Emanuel
>
Congratulations!!!
Last I looked, I am still not on it (and feel exactly as you say, if they
ever do decide to add me).
No doubt they are ~trying~ to keep as many OT 7's and OT 8's off as
possible, as that is ~such~ a "Flap"/bad example when trying to reg others
to fork out the $$$ to do it.
Such hypocrites --- and so sure they are not, ha! It's quite something to
see the show from outside, eh?
I welcome any lurkers to join. It's more than a show, it's a show you cannot
believe, until you can see it in 3-D from the outside, for real.
Once again...my Congrats :)
Tory/Magoo~in the light~
X-Scientologist after 30 YEARS 'in'
Free Speech Advocate
Magoo
"Kim P" <yduzit...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:MPdib.51$F31....@news20.bellglobal.com...
That is ~totally~ gross~ The IRC logs on there.
Since I have left I have said, "OSA is on IRC"...as I remember Bill Yaude
telling me he was on "Live ARS" and seeing this on-going chatter.
That is ~truly~ sick, Scientology!
ANY day of ANY week we could send people into your jack ass "Staff meetings"
and get quotes FAR worse than any of those. You would squeel like pigs that
was 'invasion'.....yet you find it totally OK to print those there.
And that jack ass on Operation Clambake "Umike" squeels, lying saying "Many
people are upset with you, Tory, for telling personal secrets on ARS". As I
told him, I haven't told PERSONAL sercrets, I've told him what these lying
thugs did to try and stop free speech. Did he have a problem with that? He
blew, naturally.
To those lurking, it is things like this that made me wake up. What kind of
"Church" sneaks onto a site, lying, pretending to be someone they are not,
and creating tons of false identities, only to try to STOP Free Speech?
That's not a church.................that's a mafia,
just as I've said.
Tory/Magoo~
X-Scientologist after 30 years "in"
Free Speech Advocate
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.altreligionscientology.net
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
>
Fredric L. Rice
>But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
>Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
>religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
>'Fishman'.
Hurray! Congradulations! That means you're doing good and punishing
the criminals.
---
"I spewed bodily fluids." - Shydavid http://www.skeptictank.org/
http://www.RonTheNut.ORG/ PGP: http://www.skeptictank.org/frice.pgp
-- You love drugs! You love drugs, don't you?! You better
not say anything about my mother! Don't you DARE say anything
about my mother! -- Scientology's International President (Audio
files of this nutter at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice
Joe's Garage
> But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
>
> Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
> religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
> 'Fishman'.
Uniformed people, beware! Valerie Emanual provokes "uniformed" people.
From Scientology's hate pages:
"associates. It publishes lists of names of Church members on pages with
dramatic graphics of dripping blood; an obvious attempt to provoke the
uniformed, intimidate parishioners and put their lives at risk."
I see they also printed the words "Jesus Christ" on your hate page.
Hallelujah, Sister! Now that the anonymous script writers put "Jesus
Christ" on their hate pages, Scientology can be declared a religion in
Slobbovia.
Now on to some propaganda analysis. The way to think of these pages is
like a clay demo. The cult script writers, figuratively speaking, make
little clay figures of people and post them on the Internet. They wrote
"Valerie" on a slip of paper, and stuck the paper on one of the clay
figures. But of course now it's only a lump of clay named "Valerie."
They have to make the lump of clay seem like a real person. So they take
little dribs and drabs from the life of a real person, who is also named
"Valerie", and stick it on their lump of clay. But this is still a rather
boring little lump, so they have to spice it up with Scientology-brand
labels. This lump of clay is labelled an "extremist" who is filled with
"hate". Get it? You're supposed to feel alarmed, like at any minute
this insidious little lump of clay could without warning burst through
your computer screen, grab you by the eyeballs and ... well, you get the
idea.
Now on to the bigger picture. Notice there is more than just one lump of
clay with more than one name. There are several dozen. All of them are
classified negatively, as lunatics, criminals, anti-social people and so
forth. Probably 90 percent of the people listed are rather normal and
boring. But, there actually are a few people on the list who really are
fringe lunatic, criminal and anti-social, even though we love them anyway.
So, contrary to what Scientology says, this is not a uniform club (ha ha).
This is Scientology intentionally confusing the issue. For the most part,
it does not reflect on the individuals listed.
Hey Val, what kind of uniforms do you like? Construction worker?
Policeman? Sailor?
Dear religiousfreedomwatch,
If you are going to correct Valerie's page, please add to mine that I post
Russian articles, which I've been doing for two years. Also please
include my thesis on LRH, preferably with the url in my sig file. I use
your hate page of me as a resume.
Joe Cisar http://cisar.org
The Press and Public Relations Policies of Layfayette Ronald Hubbard
http://www.xenu.net/archive/thesis/cisar-home.html
To all those on ARS who say that the wolf will alway come to the door
wearing the same disguise, I say go read some history ... Bob Minton
IDA J 007
>From: ale...@nospam.bellatlantic.net (arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com)
>Date: 10/12/2003 6:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3f89596b...@news.verizon.net>
Years ago when I went to see my lawyer re my deposition. He remarked as to what
I must have done to really pist them off. I just smiled and said everything
legal I could do to expose them.
(Actuallly the depo was just a fishing trip like so many of the cults depos. )
It is a pleasure to have your face there on the page with the rest of us.
However few of us earned THREE pages.
Ida Camburn
"You must have crossed the river before you can tell the crocodile he has bad
breath." Chinese Proverb
Michael Tilse
The Cult of Scientology put me through about 22 intensives of sec checks
False Purpose Rundown Style and False Purpose Rundown. That's about 275
hours. They charged me a goodly sum for the privilege.
This type of processing of course is designed to supposedly rid someone of
their "False" or "Evil" purposes.
So, I was very dismayed when I attended an International Association of
Scientologists event, (or it might have been a 13 March event), where Mike
Rinder, a very high Cult official and head of the Cult Office of Special
Affairs, proudly presented his statistics about putting "psychs" in jail.
You see, he accompanied this presentation with extremly EVIL INTENTIONED
images of "psychs" being hung, being thrown in the toilet with excrement
and of "psychs" going down the sewer.
It was just an EVIL display of EVIL intentions.
I could hardly believe it. Here the Cult had insisted that "I" needed "MY"
evil intentions handled and their own high officer was parading his around
for the world to see and applaud. And the public robotically stood and
applauded this display of evil.
Oh, I'm sorry, I guess it isn't bad to have evil intentions and to display
them and OPERATE ON THEM if they are toward "psychs".
It's just that I thought ANY evil intention was bad. Just my misunderstood
word I guess.
This religious freedom watch web page is an expression of evil purposes on
the part of the Cult. They want to say hateful things about their critics
and their ex-members, some like former deputy comodore Hana or OT 8
Michael. How could they, very trusted folks, have gotten so high in the
Cult if the Cult tech works?
It just exemplifies the fact that the Cult is a festering sore of
corruption spewing its vile pus in all directions in the vain hope no one
will look at it's own black heart.
Michael Leonard Tilse
> Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
> religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
> 'Fishman'.
>
--
Michael Leonard Tilse
SP 2 : scientology has acknowledged me with a truthseeker attack.
Whoo Hoo!
Say What?!
>But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
>
>Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
>religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
>'Fishman'.
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen (sic) of the cult--I am honored to have you place my
>name among such names as; Steve Hassan, Gerald Armstrong, Joe Cisar, Mark
>Dallara, Ted Mayett, Dave Touretzky, etc etc--not to mention Andreas and
>Tilman and Arnie Lerma.
>
>I shall assume your recent payment of a Private Investigator to buzz my home
>was in part to take pictures of me--I'm sure they aren't Glamour Shots. I'll
>add a Rolaid to my aspirin.
>
>Nevertheless, and despite the fact that I know it's beyond the capability of
>your closed little minds to comprehend, I will celebrate what you mistakenly
>think is ignominy today--because the more you attack me, the more good I
>know I'm accomplishing, and the more people I know I'm reaching, on the
>Internet and in person. And I'll say now, what countless others have said as
>you have attcked them;
>
>Bite me.
>
>Valerie Emanuel
You're a real trouper, Valerie. You deserve a lot of credit for what you
do. Stick around for a long time.
And thanks.
SW
Truth Seeker
wrote:
>But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
>
>Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
>religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
>'Fishman'.
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen (sic) of the cult--I am honored to have you place my
>name among such names as; Steve Hassan, Gerald Armstrong, Joe Cisar, Mark
>Dallara, Ted Mayett, Dave Touretzky, etc etc--not to mention Andreas and
>Tilman and Arnie Lerma.
>
>I shall assume your recent payment of a Private Investigator to buzz my home
>was in part to take pictures of me--I'm sure they aren't Glamour Shots. I'll
>add a Rolaid to my aspirin.
>
>Nevertheless, and despite the fact that I know it's beyond the capability of
>your closed little minds to comprehend, I will celebrate what you mistakenly
>think is ignominy today--because the more you attack me, the more good I
>know I'm accomplishing, and the more people I know I'm reaching, on the
>Internet and in person. And I'll say now, what countless others have said as
>you have attcked them;
>
>Bite me.
>
>Valerie Emanuel
>
If you were a undercover Scientologist wouldn't doing that help to
shore up your identity as a critic of Scientology?
Truth Seeker
"A man must purify himself, no man can purify another"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to tell a real critic of Scientology from a phony one"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Fredric L. Rice
>Very well said............................and
>Congratulations!!!
>Last I looked, I am still not on it (and feel exactly as you say, if they
>ever do decide to add me).
When the criminals get around to it, I'd _love_ to add your hate
pages to your web site! I wonder which criminal I need to send e-mail
to in order to get the insane bitch to get going and add it to their
hate pages so I can steal them for your web site.
Fredric L. Rice
>This web page reminds me of something:
Me, too. They engage in massive terrorist threats of genocidal murder,
operating as a domestic terrorist cult and yet the Federal government
raids peace activists for protesting against Bush's fascist war against
Iraq's children.
Like a Nazi rally Scientology shows their desires to round up and
murder anyone in the mental health industry -- and the FBI or the
euphymistically named "Office of Homeland Security" does nothing to
curb this or any other domestic terrorist cult operating among us.
>Michael Leonard Tilse
---
Valerie
"Joe's Garage" <swa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.3.96.10310...@darkstar.zippy...
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Valerie wrote:
>
> > But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
> >
> > Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
> > religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin'
and
> > 'Fishman'.
>
> Uniformed people, beware! Valerie Emanual provokes "uniformed" people.
>
>
> Policeman? Sailor?
Mail carrier uniforms, of course!
(And I'm still looking for those 'dripping blood' pages....)
V
Phil Chitester
> This web page reminds me of something:
>
> The Cult of Scientology put me through about 22 intensives of sec checks
> False Purpose Rundown Style and False Purpose Rundown. That's about 275
> hours. They charged me a goodly sum for the privilege.
It sounds like the C/S became desperate to accomplish something.
Something good.
> This type of processing of course is designed to supposedly rid someone of
> their "False" or "Evil" purposes.
No comments on what if anything did get handled or came up? Of course
not, that would imply you had something that needed to be or was
handled, which would imply the Church was good-intentioned. And the
number of hours, surely that indicates a large amount was there or was
handled.
Why wouldn't you want to imply anything like that?
> So, I was very dismayed when I attended an International Association of
> Scientologists event, (or it might have been a 13 March event), where Mike
> Rinder, a very high Cult official and head of the Cult Office of Special
> Affairs, proudly presented his statistics about putting "psychs" in jail.
> You see, he accompanied this presentation with extremly EVIL INTENTIONED
> images of "psychs" being hung, being thrown in the toilet with excrement
> and of "psychs" going down the sewer.
>
> It was just an EVIL display of EVIL intentions.
Nonsense. Sounds like good intentions. I'm sure the vast majority of
psych victims would agree. I know a few here in town who would have
loved it. And they aren't evil people. Not at all.
Psychiatry is the source of injustice and suffering and decline on the
planet. To be rid of such a thing would be relieving and
pro-survival, except perhaps to them.
> I could hardly believe it. Here the Cult had insisted that "I" needed "MY"
> evil intentions handled and their own high officer was parading his around
> for the world to see and applaud. And the public robotically stood and
> applauded this display of evil.
Nonsense again. The psychs are the evil ones. It's as simple as
that.
> Oh, I'm sorry, I guess it isn't bad to have evil intentions and to display
> them and OPERATE ON THEM if they are toward "psychs".
Those just aren't evil intentions.
> It's just that I thought ANY evil intention was bad. Just my misunderstood
> word I guess.
It just isn't at all evil to want to be rid of those who repeatedly
and consistently hurt, maim, torture, obstruct and destroy lives.
> This religious freedom watch web page is an expression of evil purposes on
> the part of the Cult.
The Church only wishes to survive. What's evil about it? The answer
is: nothing.
> They want to say hateful things about their critics
> and their ex-members, some like former deputy comodore Hana or OT 8
> Michael. How could they, very trusted folks, have gotten so high in the
> Cult if the Cult tech works?
Some people aren't bad until psyches or squirrels (or a.r.s.ians) get
ahold of them and wreak their cases and/or destroy their faith or
brainwash them with derogatory lies about the Church, its Founder or
its members -- just are you are attempting to do here. And others are
simply too stupid themselves to know they are evil and no one else
notices either, because there are no indicators of such. It doesn't
necessarily reflect on the tech in any of those cases. It's just
obliviousness -- something psyches promote and promulgate.
The copious glaring heinous crimes of psychiatry and Scientology's
critics in black PRing/lying about the Church make me feel confident
that some such 'people' no longer have any right to exist or live and
certainly no right to any freedom of speech.
Any measure to eradicate the a.r.s./psychiatry is a pro-survival one
-- there is no doubt in my mind of this now. There is no mistaking it
-- a.r.s. is suppressive, contra-survival, riddled with blatant
falsehoods, extremely destructive and uncalled for and merely serves
to defend a few utterly insane psychiatrists/squirrels or their vested
interests.
The FBI/CIA should take heed -- right here are your instigators of
9/11 -- right here are your actual terrorists, right here are the
people who are making the rest of us ill. Right here are the people
you should *immediately* arrest and incarcerate -- for the rest of
their lives. Right here are the psychiatrists -- the deserters of
mankind, the subversives, the liars, the wreckers of society and all
its hopes and dreams.
I have found nothing but copious evidence to prove this conclusion --
even when struggling to believe otherwise.
And the religiousfreedomwatch site is merely an expression of those
facts. An expression of truth.
> It just exemplifies the fact that the Cult is a festering sore of
> corruption
Describing anti-Scientology/psychiatry and calling it the Church is a
heinous crime. There is no corruption in the Church. That's why one
sees no corruption there when one looks. But if that is like an
invisibility or a reflective -- one may only be seeing the corruption
around it or of oneself and that may confuse one.
And if one associates with a.r.s. liars, one may think corruption
exists everywhere but not realize the total absence of it in the
Church and its people can be invisible to one.
> spewing its vile pus in all directions in the vain hope no one
> will look at it's own black heart.
Again... describing anti-Scientology/psychiatry and saying it is the
Church is a crime.
> Michael Leonard Tilse
I guess FPRD didn't work on this SP.
Phil
Valerie
"Phil Chitester" <dpchi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b24952a.03101...@posting.google.com...
> mti...@charter.net (Michael Tilse) wrote in message
news:<mtilse-1210...@192.168.0.2>...
> > This web page reminds me of something:
> >
> > The Cult of Scientology put me through about 22 intensives of sec checks
> > False Purpose Rundown Style and False Purpose Rundown. That's about 275
> > hours. They charged me a goodly sum for the privilege.
>
> It sounds like the C/S became desperate to accomplish something.
> Something good.
<snip loony stuff>
as I said in another, unrelated post--
> Twit.
also moron, jerk, dork, fool, putz, wanker, blockhead, ignoramus, simpleton,
imbecile, ninny, clown, buffoon, dupe, lunkhead, sap, oaf, dunce, idiot,
nitwit....
Michael Tilse
dpchi...@yahoo.com (Phil Chitester) wrote:
> It just isn't at all evil to want to be rid of those who repeatedly
> and consistently hurt, maim, torture, obstruct and destroy lives.
We agree there. That is why I am an EX-Scientologist and why I as an
individual am joining many others in exposing exactly what goes on within
the Church of Scientology/Scientology Religion. The CHURCHES OF
SCIENTOLOGY "...repeatedly and consistently hurt, maim, torture, obstruct
and destroy lives." You don't have to read a.r.s. to find this out. Just
read the publicly available documents, testimony, medical reports and
depositions in the Lisa McPherson case. Read the police interviews of the
people involved. These cannot be forged and can even be gotten directly
from the city, county and state agencies themselves.
Rinder's attitude, smirk and the images he displayed with his "stats"
showed very clearly that he wished to hurt, maim, torture, obstruct and
destroy lives. The lives of those he had named "psychs." It was nothing
but evil intention on display.
That is very different than someone who recognizes an evil and sets about
to bring it to an end without adding more hate, torture or punishment.
Rinder failed that test. YOU should spend a little more time on the
differences and similarities drills.
> I guess FPRD didn't work on this SP.
>
> Phil
Great to hear you admit that Scientology doesn't work after all. Even
though they promised me "Golden Age of Tech" auditing and case
supervision. And it was amazing how their interest in me dried up after
they had used up all my money.
Now, Phil, I hope you don't buy all the stuff the church is feeding you.
It sounds like you are into it pretty far. I was a pretty rabid apologist
myself, when I was in.
So, I would encourage you to start to look at things that cannot just be
created lies. After all, the genuine Death Certificate of Hubbard is
available to the public in San Luis Obispo. The scientologist Doctor Gene
Denk signed it. It says Hubbard had a Cerebral Vascular Accident
approximately a week before he died.
If you really are a scientologist, you also take to heart that any illness
or injury to a greater or lesser degree is caused by PTSness. So that
means that LRH was PTS and died of it. So, how OT could he have really
been to go so PTS that he had a stroke and died? So, either Denk lied or
Hubbard was PTS. But that still leaves the Vistaril psych drug that Denk
had given LRH, and that the coroner found in LRH's blood after his death.
What about that? That too is simple unforgeable evidence from a neutral,
official source. Hubbard being given psych drugs! Whoa! That is pretty
non-scientological!
Or, it is well documented that Church Staff and Members drove the dying
Lisa McPherson past at least one and perhaps several close Hospital
Emergency Rooms on the way to the distant one they took her to. That is a
crime in itself. Or you can read it this way: She was already dead, and it
didn't matter what hospital they took her to. In which case it was a
coverup of her death on site at FLAG, moving a dead person, interfering
with a possible crime scene and a number of other crimes. Which way do you
want it? All clearly shown in the unbiased official police investigation.
The Church doesn't want you to look at this factual information of course.
Another favorite thing is that if you study the data about what a person
with a missed withhold does, and look at the things that the Church
accuses others of, you begin to realize that the Church has a lot of
missed withholds. As a composite being, the organizaton acts just like a
withholdy PC, attacking right and left at those who want to get the truth.
If scientology really explains behavior, you cannot be afraid to apply the
data and the tech to the organization itself.
Do yourself a favor Phil, widen your focus. Admit that there might be
things that you are not being told the trugh about. Look. Afterall, It was
Hubbard himself who said "Look, don't listen."
I hope you live a good life Phil. Begining to post on a.r.s. is the
begining of having your eyes opened. May you never be the same.
Love,
Michael Leonard Tilse
Cerridwen
>This web page reminds me of something:
>
>The Cult of Scientology put me through about 22 intensives of sec checks
>False Purpose Rundown Style and False Purpose Rundown. That's about 275
>hours. They charged me a goodly sum for the privilege.
>
>This type of processing of course is designed to supposedly rid someone of
>their "False" or "Evil" purposes.
>
>
>So, I was very dismayed when I attended an International Association of
>Scientologists event, (or it might have been a 13 March event), where Mike
>Rinder, a very high Cult official and head of the Cult Office of Special
>Affairs, proudly presented his statistics about putting "psychs" in jail.
>You see, he accompanied this presentation with extremly EVIL INTENTIONED
>images of "psychs" being hung, being thrown in the toilet with excrement
>and of "psychs" going down the sewer.
>
>It was just an EVIL display of EVIL intentions.
It was the 2002 IAS event.
Here's what I posted about it.
Start Paste
The next speaker was none other than Heber Jentzsch.
Heber was being his usual buffoonish self. All bluster and no
content. His did what he usually does and spoke about the evil
Psychs. And it appears that Psyches are no longer just evil Psychs.
Nope, they are now PSYCH TERRORISTS!
He reported on some Highest Ever stats such as highest ever psych
hospitals closed and Highest Ever psychs sent to jail.
And they had these new graphics that go with the wins. I don't really
know what the graphics were like in previous events as I never paid
attention but these were very violent. The psychs were
cartoon type guys that looked kind of retarded and it showed CCHR
destroying them by dropping vaults on them, blowing them up and
stabbing the word Psychiatry with a knife and making it bleed. It was
really horrid and any sane non-Scientologist would think that the
Scientologists were fucking nuts and unfortunately they would be
right.
Also, appearing soon in a city near you will be the new traveling CCHR
Exhibit called....... PSYCHIARTY KILLS! This new exhibit is a replica
of the one at CCHR Int and per Heber it is quite effective in educating
people about the psych terrorists.
End paste
Anywayz, I agree with you. They really get carried away with
their insane beliefs regarding psychs. It's just looney.
Cerri
"Critical thinking demands we question the unproven, not that
we meekly accept it." Diane Richardson
For Stats on Scn go to: http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/
For News on Scientology go to: http://www.scientologywatch.org
Michael Tilse
I don't think I went to the 2002 IAS event, I had moved to Oregon by then.
I think what I saw, which was earlier than the 2002 event, probably the
2001 event, was very similar. In the one I saw the kinda blurry computer
generated "psychs" were just faceless kind of figures and were shown
hanging from a rope, going down a whirlpool like toilet and floating in a
gutter like refuse and excrement.
And I clearly remember that Rinder was the speaker. So they have been
doing this for several years. But what you saw sounds like they improved
the graphics though not the intent.
Michael Leonard Tilse
In article <R4S3WARU37907.9128587963@anonymous.poster>,
Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header (Cerridwen) wrote:
--
arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
wrote:
>Cerridwen,
>
>I don't think I went to the 2002 IAS event, I had moved to Oregon by then.
>I think what I saw, which was earlier than the 2002 event, probably the
>2001 event, was very similar. In the one I saw the kinda blurry computer
>generated "psychs" were just faceless kind of figures and were shown
>hanging from a rope, going down a whirlpool like toilet and floating in a
>gutter like refuse and excrement.
>
>And I clearly remember that Rinder was the speaker. So they have been
>doing this for several years. But what you saw sounds like they improved
>the graphics though not the intent.
>
>Michael Leonard Tilse
>
This is an amazing description Michael.
"faceless kind of figures and were shown
hanging from a rope, going down a whirlpool like toilet and floating
in a gutter like refuse and excrement."
Dead agenting psychs... why? Is it that every fascist state needs an
enemy? A villian on which to direct the The Crowd's attention?
as described by Eric Hoffer in the 1951 edition - "True Beleiver" -
Recammended by President Dwight Eisenhower
Man, they sure want to make sure that no one who has ever read
Dianetics, and been fooled into bellieving it was Hubbard's
'discovery' or "brilliance' goes on to read William Sargant's "Battle
for the Mind" -
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/scientologyandcommunism.htm
Also see the 1893 (c) by the Gustave Le Bon - "The Crowd"
about the art of manipulation of groups of people
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new?id=BonCrow&tag=public&images=images/modeng/B&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&part=0
Arnie Lerma
Citizens Against Corruption
Susan
Phil, what are you???? a.r.s.ian????
Phil, have you seen Hubbard's history with psych drugs? Check out this:
The following is a brief timeline of L. Ron Hubbard's recommendation and the
consequential use of psychotropic drugs by the Church of Scientology.
The 1940s
1.) In 1947, L. Ron Hubbard wrote to the U.S. Veterans Administration
medical division and requested psychiatric treatment for himself. A copy of
the letter he wrote is found here: http://www.ronthenut.org/beg.htm.
Begin fair use quote.
This is a request for treatment.
[....]
My last physician informed me that it might be very helpful if I were to be
examined and perhaps treated psychiatrically or even by a psycho-analyst.
End fair use quote.
The 1950s
2.) According to the URL: www.scientology.org/wis/wiseng/42/48.htm.
November 1, 1950, L. Ron Hubbard went to Kansas City, Missouri to deliver
The Kansas City Lectures. These lectures included Issues, DESPATCH 1 Nov.,
The Intensive Processing Procedure.
The red Tech Volume One, pages 39-42, first US printing in 1976 includes The
Intensive Processing Procedure.
Begin fair use quote from page 41 of the document:
Benzedrine often helps a case run. Benzedrine can be administered at the
rate of 5 mg per day given at the beginning of each six hour session with
the first dose of B1.
End fair use quote.
Benzedrine is a trademark for a brand of amphetamine.
A description of Benzedrine can be found at:
http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/amphet.htm
3.) L. Ron Hubbard Jr. in a June 1983 Penthouse magazine interview,
described how his father gave him drugs in the 1950s:
Begin fair use quote.
Penthouse: Did he encourage you to do drugs?
Hubbard: Well, he used them with me. He was a real night person. We used to
sit around all night, sit around his office or home, get loaded up, and
talk. He had a pretty liquid tongue. He loved to talk. And of course, in the
fifties, he decided that I was the heir apparent, so he wanted to teach me
everything he knew. He started me out by mixing phenobarbital into my bubble
gum, when I was ten years old. This was to induce deeper trances in order to
practice the black magic and to get an avenue to power.
End fair use quote.
4.) An additional reference to phenobarbital use is found in Bent Corydon's
book L. Ron Hubbard Messiah or Madman? Found at:
http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/rquotes.htm?FACTNet
Begin fair use quote.
It was shown in the Armstrong trial in Los Angeles in 1984 that Hubbard even
had blank prescription slips from the U.S. Navy, one of which had a
prescription for phenobarbital (a barbituate and hypnotic) written in
Hubbard's handwriting.
End fair use quote.
L. Ron Hubbard was in the Navy from 1941 to 1946. A summary of his naval
career can be viewed here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/cos/LRH-bio/usnrecrd.htm.
Phenobarbital is used as a sedative and hypnotic.
A description of phenobarbital can be found at:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/medmaster/a682007.html.
5.) L. Ron Hubbard Jr. in the 1982 Clearwater hearings referred to his
father giving him benzedrine in 1952, as part of Hubbard's research that
resulted in his book L. Ron Hubbard Scientology: A History of Man.
Benzedrine is a trademark for a brand of amphetamine.
A description of Benzedrine can be found at:
http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/amphet.htm
L. Ron Hubbard Jr. is Ron DeWolf.
The Ron DeWolf testimony during the 1982 Clearwater hearings is here:
http://www.lermanet.com/82cwcommission/ (index page)
Day 2 - pages 1 to 20 of testimony from Ron DeWolf, L. Ron Hubbard's oldest
son.
Begin fair use quote.
Then, I arrived in Phoenix, Arizona in early '52. He had just arrived
from Wichita with Mary Sue. And the very first day -- the very first
day I arrived, he wanted me audited immediately. But I had been
-driven all night and I was eighteen years old. I knew nothing about
Scientology. All I had read was Dianetics*: The Modern Science of
Mental Health, and it never really interested me very much as a book
when I was young. So, after about a couple of weeks there, we got
involved -- he asked me to sit down on the couch, and I was high on
Benzedrine, Bennies. And we started doing, quote, "research" on a book
called History of Man. So, we spent a couple, three days on that.
Here's the book here, The Scientology History of Man; here's a copy of
it. And all the incidents -- he did a few with Mary Sue, but the
majority of incidents in it were off the top of my head, as I had
upwards of twenty, thirty milligrams of Bennies in me.
[ Bennies = Speed = amphetamines ]
End fair use quote.
Benzedrine is a trademark for a brand of amphetamine.
A description of Benzedrine can be found at:
http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/amphet.htm
The L. Ron Hubbard Scientology: A History of Man was published in 1952 and
is described in this URL:
http://www.bridgepub.com/descsl22.htm.
The 1960s
6.) From the book, A Piece of Blue Sky, by John Atack found at:
http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/apobs/bs8-1.htm
Begin fair use quote:
For example, there are letters sent from North Africa in late 1966, to Mary
Sue at Saint Hill, which give details of the drugs Hubbard was taking to
"research" the most secret of Scientology's levels, OT3.
End fair use quote.
The 1970s
7.) As mentioned above, the red Tech Volume One, pages 39-42, first US
printing in 1976 includes The Intensive Processing Procedure that recommends
the use of benzedrine.
The 1980s
8.) In 1983, scientologist David Voorhies became psychotic while undergoing
scientology processing at the Church of Scientology in Los Angeles, and the
MAA asked an auditor who now posts to alt.religion.scientology as Ladayla,
to take David to her home and give him thorazine, an anti psychotic
medication, and tell David that she was giving him vitamins.
The above story was written about on alt.religion.scientology and the
pertinent part of the post is as follows. The arrows are removed and
replaced by the poster name for easier reading.
"ladayla" <ladayla...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:bak4d...@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <8G8za.423119$Si4.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, "Susan"
Ladayla:Yes. Actually, I was on my 4th time thru at AOLA when Gary Jacobs,
the
MAA, tried to recruit me to slip Thorazine to an AOHGC PC.
Susan: This is astounding to me, although after having learned so much I
probably shouldn't be so astounded. Ladayla, can you give any more
description as
to the situation that prompted the reason to drug someone? How often did
this occur that you are aware?
Ladayla: That was, for sure, the first time that I was aware of it. Like
you, I was
astounded. I knew that there was such a thing as an Introspection/Isolation
Rundown; but it never occurred to me that it was being delivered. I had
absolute certainty that I could control any PC in any condition simply with
my
voice and the raising of my hand. I had done it many times with irate
parishioners
when I was the Review auditor at ASHO. But Gary said that the guy (David
Voorhies) was totally flipped out on OT3 and too restimulative to have
around the Org.
He asked if I would take David home with me and give him this Thorazine and
tell him that it was vitamins. This is what motivated me to resign after 33
years in huborg.
End fair use quote.
A poster by the name of ACDC on alt.religion.scientology, May 23, 2003 wrote
about the David Voorhies event:
Begin fair use quote.
It's totally true everything that's being said here about David
Voorhies.
A friend of mine was sent up on a Mission to Seattle regarding David
when he was on staff at SMI. The reason that AOLA didn't just kick
David out on the street is that his father was or is a federal judge.
David had had a record store that he owned in Seattle. It was a small
operation. A friend was running it while he was in LA doing the OT
levels. When he was in LA he ran out of money. He bogged on OT 3 and
was getting some review auditing. He literally didn't have much money
to eat.
You know, probably the auditor wanted to blame it on David's drug
history, but when he arrived to do his OT levels he was OK. He was
under too much pressure -- no food, no money, no hope.
End fair use quote.
Thorazine is an anti psychotic drug and is described at the web site below.
http://www.psyweb.com/Drughtm/chlor.html
9.) In 1986 L. Ron Hubbard passed away. The coroner's report stated that
Vistaril, otherwise known as hydroxyzine was found in his blood. The report
can be found here:
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/toxicology.gif
Hydroxyzine is an anticholinergic with sedative properties and is described
at the web site below.
http://www.med.miami.edu/patients/glossary/art.asp?articlekey=9144
The 1990s
10.) In 1995, scientologist Dr. David Minkoff improperly prescribed drugs to
scientologist Lisa McPherson while she was at the Fort Harrison Hotel, under
the Church of Scientology's care receiving the Introspection Rundown. The
Saint Petersburg Times online article is found here:
http://www.sptimes.com/News/080401/TampaBay/Doctor_in_Lisa_McPher.shtml
Begin fair use quote.
This time, Minkoff prescribed chloral hydrate, a prescription sedative,
again without examining McPherson or gleaning information about her medical
situation.
End Fair use quote.
Chloral Hydrate is a hypnotic depressant and is described at the web site
below.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/chloral_hydrate.html
To summarize the above:
The above timeline is a brief history of the use of psychotropic drugs on
scientology parishioners, including L. Ron Hubbard himself and his son.
Apparently their use had begun with L. Ron Hubbard and carried through to
current practices by the Church of Scientology.
Clearly this is not in accord with what is claimed by the Church of
Scientology or of its founder L. Ron Hubbard for that matter, as they
repeatedly and through their front group CCHR, Citizens Commission on Human
Rights, proclaim their stance against psychiatric drugs and psychiatry
altogether.
Susan
Susan
All cults need an enemy to rally their followers against.
Susan
Phil Chitester
> In article <b24952a.03101...@posting.google.com>,
> dpchi...@yahoo.com (Phil Chitester) wrote:
>
>
> > It just isn't at all evil to want to be rid of those who repeatedly
> > and consistently hurt, maim, torture, obstruct and destroy lives.
>
> We agree there.
But not on the culprits?
> That is why I am an EX-Scientologist and why I as an
> individual am joining many others in exposing exactly what goes on within
> the Church of Scientology/Scientology Religion.
Your spew is so sterotypical that I believe you are just working for
OSA. Your story is just too weak a fiction.
> The CHURCHES OF
> SCIENTOLOGY "...repeatedly and consistently hurt, maim, torture, obstruct
> and destroy lives."
That is of course sheer nonsense. Put the word psychiatry in place of
the Church and then it would make total sense.
> You don't have to read a.r.s. to find this out.
If I read a.r.s. I still don't find out anything except that some
people just are insane and lie copiously and their desire to distort
the truth is legion (and they're probably paid somehow to do so).
What good does that information do me?
> Just
> read the publicly available documents, testimony, medical reports and
> depositions in the Lisa McPherson case.
I have read about this individual -- quite a bit. None of the true
information caused me to think any less of the Church, only of her.
In the end she was quite rabid -- a total goof.
> Read the police interviews of the
> people involved. These cannot be forged and can even be gotten directly
> from the city, county and state agencies themselves.
As above.
> Rinder's attitude, smirk and the images he displayed with his "stats"
> showed very clearly that he wished to hurt, maim, torture, obstruct and
> destroy lives.
That sort of consideration seems rather immaterial in the face of the
destruction they routinely cause, as with any heinous criminal whose
destruction must be eliminated.
> The lives of those he had named "psychs." It was nothing
> but evil intention on display.
Nonsense.
> That is very different than someone who recognizes an evil and sets about
> to bring it to an end without adding more hate, torture or punishment.
The point is that they are advocating thwarting the psychiatrist, not
the victim. You wish to protect the psychiatrist and say the hell
with the victims. What about the victims' lives?
They have value, don't they? Oh, I forgot, you're one of them so of
course that doesn't come into the picture.
> Rinder failed that test. YOU should spend a little more time on the
> differences and similarities drills.
I'm not the one with the problem here.
> > I guess FPRD didn't work on this SP.
> >
> > Phil
>
> Great to hear you admit that Scientology doesn't work after all.
On SPs, perhaps never -- which I suppose is how they want it anyway.
> Even
> though they promised me "Golden Age of Tech" auditing and case
> supervision. And it was amazing how their interest in me dried up after
> they had used up all my money.
I'm sure by that time they were thoroughly disgusted with you -- and
it looks here like everyone should be. Defending psychiatry -- I once
thought no one was that stupid except them. Now I am convinced
otherwise.
> Now, Phil, I hope you don't buy all the stuff the church is feeding you.
I buy all kinds of lies, none of which necessarily come from the
Church.
> It sounds like you are into it pretty far. I was a pretty rabid apologist
> myself, when I was in.
I don't apologize for anything the Church does as I find it never
needs apology. Something only dimwits overlook -- in their mad race
to undermine and destroy things. They simply must lie about it -- it
is mandatory for them.
> So, I would encourage you to start to look at things that cannot just be
> created lies.
Oh, I see. If you say it cannot be a lie, then I'm supposed to
believe you. Balderdash. Your logic and conclusions are mere
brainwash.
> After all, the genuine Death Certificate of Hubbard is
> available to the public in San Luis Obispo. The scientologist Doctor Gene
> Denk signed it. It says Hubbard had a Cerebral Vascular Accident
> approximately a week before he died.
And that proves something?
> If you really are a scientologist, you also take to heart that any illness
> or injury to a greater or lesser degree is caused by PTSness.
Feed me full of poison and I'm not likely to conclude I'm dying
because I'm PTS, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of it
being true. Nor does it necessarily disprove the validity of the
statement. One would have to look real close perhaps to see that the
body cannot handle poison due to some level or sort of PTSness,
perhaps a cellular level -- wherein little cell thetans detect a
suppressive element and react peculiarly if only on a chemical basis
-- they become disaffected due to ARC breaks.
At any rate, the body is designed vulnerable. I would say that at
this point bodies are too complex for even a full OT to modify or
preserve past their design termination date -- 16 cell replications or
something like that. It acts more like a machine and even LRH
probably did not feel like trying to modify its genetic structure.
There certainly appears to be a future in genetic modification
however, and I look forward to having one with a much longer lifespan.
> So that
> means that LRH was PTS and died of it.
I would have a hard time agreeing with that. Any man in his position
probably would be PTS but I don't think it is reasonable to say that
he definitely was or that he died of it.
Many people die of what's called natural causes -- are they PTS? I
don't think it is fair to conclude that or fair to conclude it an
impossibility. Perhaps the entire race is PTS due to its genetic
makeup, availability of proper nutrition and the elements -- but
mostly because of the presence of psychiatry.
> So, how OT could he have really
> been to go so PTS that he had a stroke and died?
He didn't die. His body parts failed. It's quite a different thing.
> So, either Denk lied or
> Hubbard was PTS.
No, neither seem false nor true. Denk may have lied, but Hubbard
probably wasn't PTS as he probably didn't maintain SP connections --
but his body may be considered to have been, as perhaps all are.
The sun puts out hazardous radiation -- its a big nuclear reactor --
aren't all bodies PTS to it?
> But that still leaves the Vistaril psych drug that Denk
> had given LRH, and that the coroner found in LRH's blood after his death.
> What about that?
I have looked at the literature and believe that he was using that for
its medical effects -- something to do with antihistamine, due to some
arterial problems that there was no surgical procedure recommended
for. I have smoked for quite a long time and I couldn't quit if you
paid me. I think that is the same sort of habit he had acquired -- it
perhaps did something to enhance the blood flow in his brain.
> That too is simple unforgeable evidence from a neutral,
> official source. Hubbard being given psych drugs! Whoa! That is pretty
> non-scientological!
Smoking is too, but many are addicted in present time.
> Or, it is well documented that Church Staff and Members drove the dying
> Lisa McPherson past at least one and perhaps several close Hospital
> Emergency Rooms on the way to the distant one they took her to.
As I read it, they had reason to suspect she would be mistreated, due
to the quantity of psych influence.
> That is a
> crime in itself. Or you can read it this way: She was already dead, and it
> didn't matter what hospital they took her to. In which case it was a
> coverup of her death on site at FLAG, moving a dead person, interfering
> with a possible crime scene and a number of other crimes.
Who was harmed? I see no harm being done by them nor intended. It is
all overblown and distorted. Life just wasn't/isn't perfect in
Clearwater. And many other places, too.
> Which way do you
> want it? All clearly shown in the unbiased official police investigation.
> The Church doesn't want you to look at this factual information of course.
I have seen most if not all of it and I am non-plussed. It is just
purely a scam on the part of its critics to make it look much worse
than it was. Really, it is a joke to criticize the Church or its
actions, after you find out how crazy she was acting and what she did.
It simply doesn't serve critics' nefarious purposes to admit that the
Church never does anything wrong.
> Another favorite thing is that if you study the data about what a person
> with a missed withhold does,
Can't really say I have.
> and look at the things that the Church
> accuses others of,
I only see them pointing out the facts -- it seems odd you would call
those accusations -- that implies the facts are in question, which is
never the case.
> you begin to realize that the Church has a lot of
> missed withholds.
I see no such thing going on. And it isn't because I am blind or not
in the know.
> As a composite being, the organizaton acts just like a
> withholdy PC, attacking right and left at those who want to get the truth.
Those people who 'want to get at the truth' actually merely wish
people to believe lies which they fabricate and concoct. Those are
two different things. The purposes are completely different and they
always lie about their actual intentions -- that being to get people
to believe lies.
> If scientology really explains behavior, you cannot be afraid to apply the
> data and the tech to the organization itself.
I see no real point in doing so -- after many years of having done so
and finding them to be non-corrupt and non-destructive. They are
always doing a fine enough job of applying the tech to their own.
> Do yourself a favor Phil, widen your focus.
If that means opening my mind to allow false data to stick in it, I'm
not so sure I'm on the wrong track to just strip it as it comes in and
discard it as then I have a leaner package to carry around.
> Admit that there might be
> things that you are not being told the trugh about.
My problem is that for the most part, the Church's goodness is too
extraordinary and its capabilities too high for myself and most others
to at first believe.
You would have me believe falsehoods when I am struggling to believe
truth. This is reverse vector and quite enturbulative, and the evil
is too obvious -- your intentions run entirely against my survival. I
have no need for anything other than the precept 'Seek to Live with
the Truth' and certainly there is no need for derogatory
misinformation such as you posit here, it only clogs the works and
slows my progress.
Why be evil when it is in your basic nature to be good? In it for the
money?
> Look. Afterall, It was
> Hubbard himself who said "Look, don't listen."
Yes, but you have indicated through your promulgations of falsehoods
and innuendo that that is not at all what you wish people to do. You
wish them to close their eyes and allow you to ruin their lives with
false information. You are just another psychiatrist, then. Evil
beyond most people's comprehension.
> I hope you live a good life Phil.
There would be scant chance of that happening if I believed anything
you said about the Church. Or anything you said about your intentions
towards others. You appear to be a total liar.
> Begining to post on a.r.s. is the
> begining of having your eyes opened.
> May you never be the same.
>
> Love,
>
> Michael Leonard Tilse
Doesn't appear to be a real person -- just an OSA-produced clone.
And ptsc -- I think OSA has cloned/taken him over too.
Thanks, but lies do not constitute a pro-survival diet, even when they
come from such a mild-seeming, but subtly dangerous, 'person.'
Phil
Susan
You are such a troll.
Susan
"Phil Chitester" <dpchi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b24952a.03101...@posting.google.com...
Zinj
enlighte...@comcast.net says...
> Phil,
>
> You are such a troll.
>
> Susan
Well, I don't think he's exactly a 'troll' per se. What he *is*
however is an amazingly candid look into the workings of a '100%
Standardly Fucked' mind.
That's his curse, but it's also his value to us, if we accept
his candor as honest.
Who but Phil would be straightforward enough to disclose that
'the psychs send hypnotists out on the street to hypnotize
people into being homosexual.'
Even the most virulent of the official spokesclams wouldn't have
the sheer gall to disclose that to the uninitiated, even if he
believes it himself as a matter of dogma.
Zinj
--
ScientologyŽ - Deliberately killing no more than 0.5 percent of
its members since 1953
Howard Edmunds
>
<major phil/michael snippage>
Dear Phil
Good to see you still about. How are things? What are you doing now?
regards
Howard
Phil Chitester
> Phil Chitester wrote:
> | mti...@charter.net (Michael Tilse) wrote in message
> | news:<mtilse-1210...@192.168.0.2>...
>
Not very interested in either Scientology or its critics anymore.
Neither of them make me any money.
I find Scientology seems to have been specifically designed so that
people Hubbard had an aversion to or prejudice with regards to fail
miserably at it -- as if their personal suffering wasn't great enough
already. He seems to have failed to leave personal vendettas and
foibles out of the philosophy.
Scientology seems to be specifically targetted at those who are
already successful and have money and encourages such people to simply
spit on the rest of the population -- and this would be fine, but it
spoils the clothes, so to speak and sours the mentality and
spirituality in the world at large -- it does not necessarily
encourage good conduct, but rather seems to encourage destructivity.
I find all the real critics disgusting and repugnant in so many myriad
ways... like the psychiatrists which their underlying persons seem to
consist of.
Not the people of Scientology -- they are usually quite enjoyable and
constructive.
Even the critics I would like to perhaps meet in person just to
relieve the boredom, but I am restricted by the Scn rules and feign to
violate them in case such people are truly dangerous deprogrammers and
I am skeptical of any benefit to anyone in that.
I enjoy the occasional kind bud I am kindly given here.
> Phil, have you seen Hubbard's history with psych drugs? Check out this:
The man hardly used drugs and when he did, he didn't do it
destructively, apparently. Yes, it is a bit of a shock. I think he
intended eventually that no one ever use any drugs and I think that is
a good intention and I agree with it.
> The following is a brief timeline of L. Ron Hubbard's recommendation and the
> consequential use of psychotropic drugs by the Church of Scientology.
These 'events' are so minor and inconsequential as to make the
critics' point look quite specious.
<snip>
> 3.) L. Ron Hubbard Jr. in a June 1983 Penthouse magazine interview,
> described how his father gave him drugs in the 1950s:
>
> Begin fair use quote.
>
> Penthouse: Did he encourage you to do drugs?
> Hubbard: Well, he used them with me. He was a real night person. We used to
> sit around all night, sit around his office or home, get loaded up, and
> talk. He had a pretty liquid tongue. He loved to talk. And of course, in the
> fifties, he decided that I was the heir apparent, so he wanted to teach me
> everything he knew. He started me out by mixing phenobarbital into my bubble
> gum, when I was ten years old. This was to induce deeper trances in order to
> practice the black magic and to get an avenue to power.
This guy seems like a notorious liar. However, even so, nothing
Hubbard, Sr. was reputed to have done sounds like he had harmful
intent, quite the contrary.
> End fair use quote.
>
<snip>
>
> The Ron DeWolf testimony during the 1982 Clearwater hearings is here:
> http://www.lermanet.com/82cwcommission/ (index page)
>
> Day 2 - pages 1 to 20 of testimony from Ron DeWolf, L. Ron Hubbard's oldest
> son.
>
> Begin fair use quote.
>
> Then, I arrived in Phoenix, Arizona in early '52. He had just arrived
> from Wichita with Mary Sue. And the very first day -- the very first
> day I arrived, he wanted me audited immediately. But I had been
> -driven all night and I was eighteen years old. I knew nothing about
> Scientology. All I had read was Dianetics*: The Modern Science of
> Mental Health, and it never really interested me very much as a book
> when I was young. So, after about a couple of weeks there, we got
> involved -- he asked me to sit down on the couch, and I was high on
> Benzedrine, Bennies. And we started doing, quote, "research" on a book
> called History of Man. So, we spent a couple, three days on that.
> Here's the book here, The Scientology History of Man; here's a copy of
> it. And all the incidents -- he did a few with Mary Sue, but the
> majority of incidents in it were off the top of my head, as I had
> upwards of twenty, thirty milligrams of Bennies in me.
So the drugs adversely affected the data obtained from the auditing is
the implication. Not from that much of that drug, I am sure. That is
such a piddling amount. Would hardly have affected him and certainly
not adversely, not like a heavy hallucinogen.
And in that research there were many more preclears, as I recall --
upwards of 40 or 50. In other words, this guy's just lying copiously.
> [ Bennies = Speed = amphetamines ]
>
> End fair use quote.
>
<snip>
>
> To summarize the above:
>
> The above timeline is a brief history of the use of psychotropic drugs on
> scientology parishioners, including L. Ron Hubbard himself and his son.
> Apparently their use had begun with L. Ron Hubbard and carried through to
> current practices by the Church of Scientology.
It's like saying someone used aspirin in their lifetime, that's the
magnitude of it all.
> Clearly this is not in accord with what is claimed by the Church of
> Scientology or of its founder L. Ron Hubbard for that matter, as they
> repeatedly and through their front group CCHR, Citizens Commission on Human
> Rights, proclaim their stance against psychiatric drugs and psychiatry
> altogether.
The accord is totally there. They get on my case for smoking pot. I
mean really.
> Susan
So, I guess what your data is really saying is that the use of drugs
in the Church is so microscopic compared to the times and lives that
were ever involved... that there's no derogatory implication to be
believed at all.
Right?
Phil
Phil Chitester
> Phil,
>
> You are such a troll.
>
> Susan
Scientologists manipulate my mind -- so there is no guarantee that
what I post won't come out so embarassingly ... well, there's really
no word(s) for it.
I guess 'junk' would be a good one. Something one finds in a garbage
bin.
Picking on a poor homeless Clear -- and justifying it with perfectly
adequate reasoning -- see they even manipulated this sentence, too.
And the above was all manipulated to exonerate them. Doesn't it sound
like they're trying to make criticism of OSA look ridiculous?
It does to me.
Phil
(They're the experts.)
I might be the most manipulated mind on the planet.
> "Phil Chitester" <dpchi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b24952a.03101...@posting.google.com...
> | mti...@charter.net (Michael Tilse) wrote in message
> news:<mtilse-1310...@192.168.0.2>...
> | > In article <b24952a.03101...@posting.google.com>,
> | > dpchi...@yahoo.com (Phil Chitester) wrote:
> | >
> | >
> | > > It just isn't at all evil to want to be rid of those who repeatedly
> | > > and consistently hurt, maim, torture, obstruct and destroy lives.
> | >
> | > We agree there.
> |
> | But not on the culprits?
> |
> | > That is why I am an EX-Scientologist and why I as an
> | > individual am joining many others in exposing exactly what goes on within
> | > the Church of Scientology/Scientology Religion.
This guy is no more Ex-Scientologist than I am. Not after all those
courses he took. And quite the mind manipulator and trickster.
(see -- those lines are manipulated too -- to make you think other
than what I want you to think -- i.e. that Milne (I mean Tilse) really
IS an Ex-Scientologist).
Confused? I am.
(No one ever has a decent answer to such a question on this forum.
It's what the psychs don't want people talking about.)
> |
> | They have value, don't they? Oh, I forgot, you're one of them so of
> | course that doesn't come into the picture.
> |
> | > Rinder failed that test. YOU should spend a little more time on the
> | > differences and similarities drills.
> |
> | I'm not the one with the problem here.
> |
> | > > I guess FPRD didn't work on this SP.
> | > >
> | > > Phil
> | >
> | > Great to hear you admit that Scientology doesn't work after all.
> |
> | On SPs, perhaps never -- which I suppose is how they want it anyway.
> |
> | > Even
> | > though they promised me "Golden Age of Tech" auditing and case
> | > supervision. And it was amazing how their interest in me dried up after
> | > they had used up all my money.
> |
> | I'm sure by that time they were thoroughly disgusted with you -- and
> | it looks here like everyone should be. Defending psychiatry -- I once
> | thought no one was that stupid except them. Now I am convinced
> | otherwise.
I really am.
By that I meant the thetan didn't die.
I really think he doesn't think so -- but I think OSA is adamant about
controlling this guy's mind.
> | Thanks, but lies do not constitute a pro-survival diet, even when they
> | come from such a mild-seeming, but subtly dangerous, 'person.'
And being that that is a manipulated line -- that would prompt you to
think that about me, also. At least that is the impression they wish
to create and of course that is backed by 100% reason as always.
> |
> | Phil
Isn't that the case?
All the lines in this post were manipulated -- to make you (if only
eventually) scoff at any criticism of the Church/OSA. See how clever
they are?
If you don't, then you lose.
Phil Chitester
> In article <0VSdnY7POYl...@comcast.com>,
> enlighte...@comcast.net says...
> > Phil,
> >
> > You are such a troll.
> >
> > Susan
>
> Well, I don't think he's exactly a 'troll' per se. What he *is*
> however is an amazingly candid look into the workings of a '100%
> Standardly Fucked' mind.
The Super-Continuously Fucked Man. The Church couldn't fuck me more
repeatedly and continuously than 24/7.
(All of course in a desperate effort to protect their repute. As if I
was any sort of reflection of that. :-)
> That's his curse, but it's also his value to us, if we accept
> his candor as honest.
Zinj thinks I've been 'indoctrinated.' But all I've done is read LRH
works. Something all could do. You too could get Zinj's '100%
Standardly Fucked' label.
> Who but Phil would be straightforward enough to disclose that
> 'the psychs send hypnotists out on the street to hypnotize
> people into being homosexual.'
I didn't say that exactly. I wasn't accusing anyone of that.
> Even the most virulent of the official spokesclams wouldn't have
> the sheer gall to disclose that to the uninitiated, even if he
> believes it himself as a matter of dogma.
>
> Zinj
As usual, it seems Zinj can never see through the haze of apostate
distortion and lies.
The Church is Good. The Psychs are Bad. Simple, huh?
Phil
Phil Chitester
I've been back in Boulder for about two months now. Prior to that I
worked in L.A. for about 8 months for my old boss (who died 25 May).
Things seemed quite suspicious on the West Coast -- my health started
going downhill again. My conclusion: Build-up of lead dust in the
shop made everyone grow hostile and gave them diabetes. My two bosses
there both deceased now.
Got here with some money ($800) but now that is gone after too much
partying and excesses. Churches still feeding me and it is sort of
like Shangri-La here. I recommend a visit if you travel.
(Wollersheim haunt tour or something.)
Will never forget you sending me those two $50US. All the way from
the U.K. Woo-woo!
Have you found out that the Church is entirely good and virtuous yet?
I suppose that would be too wishful thinking.
How's things there? Know any gay guys?
Phil
Dicktop_Stud
> >
> > Uniformed people, beware! Valerie Emanual provokes "uniformed" people.> >
> >
> > Hey Val, what kind of uniforms do you like? Construction worker?
> > Policeman? Sailor?
>
> Mail carrier uniforms, of course!
Postal workers? Yuk! Gorgeous studs in cop uniforms..particular those
bike cops in their tight pants and shiny black boots..oh, daddy..:-)
Shy David
wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Valerie wrote:
> > But let me take an aspirin before I read them.
> >
> > Somebody wrote to let me know I'd finally made the bigot's list at
> > religiousfreedomwatch.org. Well, they needed someone between 'Dvorkin' and
> > 'Fishman'.
> Uniformed people, beware! Valerie Emanual provokes "uniformed" people.
>
> From Scientology's hate pages:
> "associates. It publishes lists of names of Church[sic] members on pages with
> dramatic graphics of dripping blood; an obvious attempt to provoke the
> uniformed[sic], intimidate parishioners[sic] and put their lives at risk."
LOL! Scientology Inc. is the epitomy of producing uniformed people.
Hitler did a pretty good job of it, too.
> I see they also printed the words "Jesus Christ" on your hate page.
> Hallelujah, Sister! Now that the anonymous script writers put "Jesus
> Christ" on their hate pages, Scientology can be declared a religion in
> Slobbovia.
Scientology teaches "There was no Christ."
http://holysmoke.org/cos/christin.htm
> Now on to some propaganda analysis. The way to think of these pages is
> like a clay demo. The cult script writers, figuratively speaking, make
> little clay figures of people and post them on the Internet. They wrote
> "Valerie" on a slip of paper, and stuck the paper on one of the clay
> figures. But of course now it's only a lump of clay named "Valerie."
> They have to make the lump of clay seem like a real person. So they take
> little dribs and drabs from the life of a real person, who is also named
> "Valerie", and stick it on their lump of clay. But this is still a rather
> boring little lump, so they have to spice it up with Scientology-brand
> labels. This lump of clay is labelled an "extremist" who is filled with
> "hate". Get it? You're supposed to feel alarmed, like at any minute
> this insidious little lump of clay could without warning burst through
> your computer screen, grab you by the eyeballs and ... well, you get the
> idea.
Actually no, I do not get the idea. The crime syndicate's slander and
libel web pages bare no resemblance to reality, nor to the people they
slander and libel. Their web page pretending to be about me is so
vastly non-conforming to reality that no one could look at it and
believe (let alone think) it is about me. The first rule of propaganda
is to add at least a little truth in with the lies: Scientology Inc.
didn't even bother doing so in their page pretending to be about me.
Looking at what people have posted in a.r.s. concerning Scientology
Inc.'s web pages pretending to be about Valerie, it appears the crime
syndicate didn't even bother adding any truth to those pages either.
> Now on to the bigger picture. Notice there is more than just one lump of
> clay with more than one name. There are several dozen. All of them are
> classified negatively, as lunatics, criminals, anti-social people and so
> forth. Probably 90 percent of the people listed are rather normal and
> boring. But, there actually are a few people on the list who really are
> fringe lunatic, criminal and anti-social, even though we love them anyway.
> So, contrary to what Scientology says, this is not a uniform club (ha ha).
> This is Scientology intentionally confusing the issue. For the most part,
> it does not reflect on the individuals listed.
>
> Hey Val, what kind of uniforms do you like? Construction worker?
> Policeman? Sailor?
Baskin Robbin's icecream girl uniforms.
> Dear religiousfreedomwatch,
>
> If you are going to correct Valerie's page, please add to mine that I post
> Russian articles, which I've been doing for two years. Also please
> include my thesis on LRH, preferably with the url in my sig file. I use
> your hate page of me as a resume.
>
> Joe Cisar http://cisar.org
>
> The Press and Public Relations Policies of Layfayette Ronald Hubbard
> http://www.xenu.net/archive/thesis/cisar-home.html
>
> To all those on ARS who say that the wolf will alway come to the door
> wearing the same disguise, I say go read some history ... Bob Minton
--
"I lack sufficient capabilities to express my disdain."
Shy David
wrote:
> "Joe's Garage" <swa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.3.96.10310...@darkstar.zippy...
>> Hey Val, what kind of uniforms do you like? Construction worker?
>> Policeman? Sailor?
> Mail carrier uniforms, of course!
I hear Cliff Clavin is looking for a date.....
> (And I'm still looking for those 'dripping blood' pages....)
If you find them, perhaps Scientology Inc. would stop complaining if
you swapped the "dripping blood" with images of Lisa McPherson's
autopsy.
> V
Howard Edmunds
>
> Howard Edmunds <hedm...@macmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F8C6631...@macmail.com>...
> > Phil Chitester wrote:
> > >
> > <major phil/michael snippage>
> >
> > Dear Phil
> >
> > Good to see you still about. How are things? What are you doing now?
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Howard
>
> I've been back in Boulder for about two months now. Prior to that I
> worked in L.A. for about 8 months for my old boss (who died 25 May).
What prompted you to do that? I understood that you had left them in
high dudgeon.
>
> Things seemed quite suspicious on the West Coast -- my health started
> going downhill again. My conclusion: Build-up of lead dust in the
> shop made everyone grow hostile and gave them diabetes. My two bosses
> there both deceased now.
High lead intake during infancy and childhood has enduring
consequences - though much less later in life.
Anyhow, imho you've reached the age where you're too old to be cautious.
> Got here with some money ($800) but now that is gone after too much
> partying and excesses. Churches still feeding me and it is sort of
> like Shangri-La here. I recommend a visit if you travel.
> (Wollersheim haunt tour or something.)
Shangri-La? Boulder appears to get 10 to 15 inches of snow in
November and March. Are you still living in a tent?
>
> Will never forget you sending me those two $50US. All the way from
> the U.K. Woo-woo!
>
> Have you found out that the Church is entirely good and virtuous yet?
> I suppose that would be too wishful thinking.
'fraid so.
>
> How's things there? Know any gay guys?
Several - probably more than I realise.
As to the rest:
late Sept 2001: Unexpected acute abdominal aortic aneurysm. Ten days
in intensive care at Addenbrookes, ten more at Papworth whilst they
hummed and haah'd about further adjustments and enhancements. My
surgeon even gave me a questionnaire regarding 'near death
experiences.' :)
late Oct 2002: Pulling up Ragwort from the land - slipped disk.
Spend next three months sleeping downstairs, taking co-codomol and
learning the discipline of 'wooden stick'..
new year 2003: Surfeit of passion. Heart rate drops from 60+ to 30-.
Horizons shrink. Get in line for further surgery - pacemaker style.
september 2003: Surgeons have their wicked way with me - horizons
expand.
Go to Paris. Eat well. Walk about. Do stuff. Come safely home.
Howard
--
Balsero en el mar de vida.
Phil Chitester
> Phil Chitester wrote:
> >
> > Howard Edmunds <hedm...@macmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F8C6631...@macmail.com>...
> > > Phil Chitester wrote:
> > > >
> > > <major phil/michael snippage>
> > >
> > > Dear Phil
> > >
> > > Good to see you still about. How are things? What are you doing now?
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Howard
> >
> > I've been back in Boulder for about two months now. Prior to that I
> > worked in L.A. for about 8 months for my old boss (who died 25 May).
>
> What prompted you to do that? I understood that you had left them in
> high dudgeon.
There was the distinct desire for money. And the number of camping
tickets I was getting. Between the two and the prospect of having a
place to stay, I was quite overruled.
> > Things seemed quite suspicious on the West Coast -- my health started
> > going downhill again. My conclusion: Build-up of lead dust in the
> > shop made everyone grow hostile and gave them diabetes. My two bosses
> > there both deceased now.
>
> High lead intake during infancy and childhood has enduring
> consequences - though much less later in life.
>
> Anyhow, imho you've reached the age where you're too old to be cautious.
Heavy metals can bring on diabetes (and other things) I think.
> > Got here with some money ($800) but now that is gone after too much
> > partying and excesses. Churches still feeding me and it is sort of
> > like Shangri-La here. I recommend a visit if you travel.
> > (Wollersheim haunt tour or something.)
>
> Shangri-La? Boulder appears to get 10 to 15 inches of snow in
> November and March. Are you still living in a tent?
Never had one. Camp without it.
> > Will never forget you sending me those two $50US. All the way from
> > the U.K. Woo-woo!
> >
> > Have you found out that the Church is entirely good and virtuous yet?
> > I suppose that would be too wishful thinking.
>
> 'fraid so.
Aww!
> > How's things there? Know any gay guys?
>
> Several - probably more than I realise.
>
> As to the rest:
>
> late Sept 2001: Unexpected acute abdominal aortic aneurysm. Ten days
> in intensive care at Addenbrookes, ten more at Papworth whilst they
> hummed and haah'd about further adjustments and enhancements. My
> surgeon even gave me a questionnaire regarding 'near death
> experiences.' :)
My life seems like a series of those. My lungs are slowly ceasing to
operate.
> late Oct 2002: Pulling up Ragwort from the land - slipped disk.
> Spend next three months sleeping downstairs, taking co-codomol and
> learning the discipline of 'wooden stick'..
>
> new year 2003: Surfeit of passion. Heart rate drops from 60+ to 30-.
> Horizons shrink. Get in line for further surgery - pacemaker style.
>
> september 2003: Surgeons have their wicked way with me - horizons
> expand.
> Go to Paris. Eat well. Walk about. Do stuff. Come safely home.
>
> Howard
OK. Thanks. Sounds like you're doing a little better now.
Talk to you later.
Phil