Dave Bird, R.I.P.
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
Hi There!
Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/images/EGrinstead9903/DaveB1_l.jpg
http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/
Dave had been active in the NCCL and in the fight against miscarriages of
justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
While Dave was a great debater - and a lot of fun - on a.r.s. he also had
many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/wood3.htm
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/sp861.htm
Dave brought a welcome street theatre side to our pickets, including many
props, some of which worked, some of which didn't and the largest one of
which was Carrie the Giant Clamshell.
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/muslinger/poole980314_a.html#mar28th
Dave worked hard at his activism, organising, doing practical things,
designing props (the balloons were always a favourite of mine) and writing
songs. He was a firm believer in the will of good people to show up at a
demo that someone else had to do the hard work organising and he was happy
to put in the work. He did ask a lot, but he gave more.
The criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology didn't
like him one little bit, as evinced by the multi-page entry on their hate
site RFW
www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/david-bird/
Dave would have gotten a kick out of the day he passed away being the day of
the largest worldwide protest against the criminal organisation known as
the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
I'll miss him
Best Regards
Jens
- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985
"..the London Underground is *not* a political movement" 'A Fish Called
Wanda'
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Android Cat
:-(
Patty Pieniadz
"Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:80c11$47b2acec$d1b71594$15...@PRIMUS.CA...
How very sad. Dave and I corresponded when he was active on ars.
He was very helpful to me and seemed to be lots of fun.
Thanks for your help Dave!
Patty
To You
insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
That he died, unfortunately does not change that. (And the same applies
by the way to the suicide murderers of Islam: Their death does not change
the fact, THAT they are murderers, no matter WHAT Mohammed said about it.)
That he was a "Critic" of Scientology, does not honor the "Critics" of
course,
he has possibly done MORE HARM TO THE CAUSE of stopping Scientology,
than any other of the "Critics" here, who PRETEND so hard to
"fight for freedom and truth and justice,"
and it shows the vile insanity of those "Critics" who support(ed) and
sanction(ed) the evil of Dave Bird - obviously including the two current
condolents.
While for many "critics," like Fred Rice or Roger Gonnet or Tilman
Hausherr or Barb Graham, "being critics" seems to act like a good cover to
hide their nature,
their nature has not and will not change, by "being a Critic" of the evil
called l.ron hubbard's Scientology.
Shame on you indeed.
Now there are those Demonic creatures, who will take the customs,
the social evils and blindness that they already have put in place
regarding death and souls, to "lament" once again about TRUTH.
KNT hrp&p
Copyright 2008 by KNT
Copyright conditions as usual (a type of free use as published elsewhere)
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:08:14 +0000, Jens Tingleff wrote:
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:08:14 +0000
> Followup-To: alt.religion.scientology
> From: Jens Tingleff <jens...@tingleff.org>
> Lines: 65
> Message-ID: <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: p87a3f8c6ff000000e954a1dfe8014828c89d1c1575590b13.newsdawg.com
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,uk.politics.misc
> Organization: ARSCC (tinarscc)
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> Subject: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
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Xenu The Enturbulator
> Dave Bird was and is a most repulsive, viciously Demonic, and violently
> insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
I think the best way to remember Dave is the message he had in his sig
for so long :
"Woof woof (glug glug) .. who drowned the judge's dog ?"
Well, go on. Answer the question!
peters...@gmail.com
> Dave Bird was and is a most repulsive, viciously Demonic, and violently
> insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
You are a mean hearted and vicious person, Koos.
Peter
peters...@gmail.com
wrote:
It is a CULT that goes by the name "Church (GAK!) of $cientology".
Peter
Howard
Jens, thank you for passing on this news. He was a great contributor
to ars AND a person unafraid to 'put his money where his mouth was'
in RL.
Here's a favourite sig. of his:
FUCK THE SKULL OF HUBBARD, AND BUGGER THE DWARF HE RODE IN ON!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8====3 (O 0) GROETEN --- PRINTZ XEMU EXTRAWL no real OT has
|n| (COMMANDER, FIFTH INVADER FORCE) ever existed
.................................................................
A society without a religion is like a maniac without a chainsaw.
The implant station won't know what hit them...
I'm sad never to have met him in person and I'd be grateful if you'd
pass on any details of the funeral if you have them.
Howard
--
hedmundoatmacmaildotcom
To You
'Ethics Condition?'
Listen to Joseph Goebbels' - excuse me, switch to this life time - David
Miscavige's 2004 speech, that 'Scientology must be used in any life
situation, even by the janitor?'
(No insult meant to janitors, by the way).
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:21:46 +0000, Xenu The Enturbulator wrote:
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:21:46 +0000
> From: Xenu The Enturbulator <xe...@galacticfederation.org>
> In-Reply-To: <pan.2008.02.13....@local.host>
> Lines: 10
> Message-Id: <120289450...@demeter.uk.clara.net>
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:21:49 +0000
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Path: news.wanadoo.nl!xref.euro.net!beastiality.euro.net!news2.euro.net!feeder.news-service.com!newsfeed.freenet.de!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!newsfeed.esat.net!news.clara.net!mephistopheles.news.clara.net!demeter.uk.clara.net
> References: <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com> <pan.2008.02.13....@local.host>
> Subject: Re: Dave Bird was - and is - a most repulsive, viciously Demonic creature - Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031)
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"Rev" Norle Enturbulata, DTS, COD
"Jens Tingleff" <jens...@tingleff.org> wrote in message
news:fou8...@news3.newsguy.com...
Dave was the first and only person to call me on telephone to invite me to a
picket, back in 2002. My reasons for not picketing until this past glorious
Sunday will be explained before long; and while Dave and I went at it tooth
and nail in the tense period following Sept 11, we still respected each
others' right to have and express their opinions. I could not connect at
the Nearby Pub but instead went to another.. and will easily say that while
Dave Bird had his physical ailments this did not dampen his enthusiasm for
the defense of personal freedoms. I agree with Jens - he'd have had a good,
warm laugh about Sunday, and perhaps knows now how things will progress as
well, in the hands/minds of more than the brave few who pioneered the fight
against the Scientology cult in the UK.
To You
opportunity to do so, in the hope of having AT LEAST OTHER Demonic
creatures consent,
is in order to make very evil individuals seem "good," and very good
individuals seem "very evil."
This is of course, to the Demonic creature, entirely created out of the
fear, and born from a "compulsive self-defense," of having himself, Peter
Schilte - hopefully at least by one besides himself - not seen, or if seen
as he is, then not treated as a severely Demonic (sociopath) individual.
He does not even know his rights as a Criminal Mind.
So the severely Demonic creature "peterschilte-83.116.76.201" wrote, in
the hope of some success for him to be sucked (by him) out of other
Demonic creatures, wrote:
> On 13 feb, 10:01, To You <r...@local.host> wrote:
>> Dave Bird was and is a most repulsive, viciously Demonic, and violently
>> insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
>
>
> You are a mean hearted and vicious person, Koos.
>
> Peter
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:53:33 -0800, peterschilte wrote:
> Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:53:33 -0800 (PST)
> From: peters...@gmail.com
> Injection-Info: d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com; posting-host=83.116.76.201; posting-account=yp7WigoAAABDR0swurZLRm15I8SpxP6t
> Lines: 11
> Message-ID: <b12c2494-91bc-4832...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:53:34 +0000 (UTC)
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.116.76.201
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Path: news.wanadoo.nl!xref.euro.net!beastiality.euro.net!news2.euro.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> References: <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com> <pan.2008.02.13....@local.host>
> Subject: Re: Dave Bird was - and is - a most repulsive, viciously Demonic creature - Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
> User-Agent: G2/1.0
> X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; nl; rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20080201 Firefox/2.0.0.12,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
> X-Trace: posting.google.com 1202896414 9934 127.0.0.1 (13 Feb 2008 09:53:34 GMT)
> Xref: news.wanadoo.nl alt.religion.scientology:1910059
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Eldon
> Top post:
>
> Jens, thank you for passing on this news. He was a great contributor
> to ars AND a person unafraid to 'put his money where his mouth was'
> in RL.
Yeah, I second that. I will miss his sense of humo(u)r. But as Jens
remarked, the day was at least significant. If there is any truth to
Scientology (though I doubt it), I hope he enjoys kicking Hubbard's
thetan butt in a galaxy far, far away.
> Here's a favourite sig. of his:
>
> FUCK THE SKULL OF HUBBARD, AND BUGGER THE DWARF HE RODE IN ON!!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 8====3 (O 0) GROETEN --- PRINTZ XEMU EXTRAWL no real OT has
> |n| (COMMANDER, FIFTH INVADER FORCE) ever existed
> .................................................................
> A society without a religion is like a maniac without a chainsaw.
>
> The implant station won't know what hit them...
>
> I'm sad never to have met him in person and I'd be grateful if you'd
> pass on any details of the funeral if you have them.
>
> Howard
> --
> hedmundoatmacmaildotcom
>
> Jens Tingleff wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
>
> > Hi There!
>
> > Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
> > from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
> >http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/images/EGrinstead9903/Dave...
> >http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/
>
> > Dave had been active in the NCCL and in the fight against miscarriages of
> > justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
> > as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> > While Dave was a great debater - and a lot of fun - on a.r.s. he also had
> > many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
> > legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
> > history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
>
> >http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/wood3.htm
> >http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/sp861.htm
>
> > Dave brought a welcome street theatre side to our pickets, including many
> > props, some of which worked, some of which didn't and the largest one of
> > which was Carrie the Giant Clamshell.
>
> >http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/muslinger/poole980314_a.ht...
>
> > Dave worked hard at his activism, organising, doing practical things,
> > designing props (the balloons were always a favourite of mine) and writing
> > songs. He was a firm believer in the will of good people to show up at a
> > demo that someone else had to do the hard work organising and he was happy
> > to put in the work. He did ask a lot, but he gave more.
>
> > The criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology didn't
> > like him one little bit, as evinced by the multi-page entry on their hate
> > site RFW
>
> >www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/david-bird/
>
> > Dave would have gotten a kick out of the day he passed away being the day of
> > the largest worldwide protest against the criminal organisation known as
> > the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> > I'll miss him
>
> > Best Regards
>
> > Jens
>
> > - --
> > Key ID 0x09723C12, jenst...@tingleff.org
banchukita
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi There!
>
> Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
> from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
>
> Dave had been active in the NCCL and in the fight against miscarriages of
> justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
> as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> While Dave was a great debater - and a lot of fun - on a.r.s. he also had
> many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
> legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
> history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
>
>
> Dave brought a welcome street theatre side to our pickets, including many
> props, some of which worked, some of which didn't and the largest one of
> which was Carrie the Giant Clamshell.
>
>
> Dave worked hard at his activism, organising, doing practical things,
> designing props (the balloons were always a favourite of mine) and writing
> songs. He was a firm believer in the will of good people to show up at a
> demo that someone else had to do the hard work organising and he was happy
> to put in the work. He did ask a lot, but he gave more.
>
> The criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology didn't
> like him one little bit, as evinced by the multi-page entry on their hate
> site RFW
>
> www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/david-bird/
>
> Dave would have gotten a kick out of the day he passed away being the day of
> the largest worldwide protest against the criminal organisation known as
> the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> I'll miss him
>
> Best Regards
>
> Jens
>
> - --
> Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985
> "..the London Underground is *not* a political movement" 'A Fish Called
> Wanda'
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> =5L1T
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Jens, thanks for letting us know.
I never got to meet Dave IRL, but his posts always had an element that
would keep me going,
whether it was humor or his innate ability to cut through a bunch of
BS in one or two sentences.
You're right, he'd be laughing and making all kinds of jokes about
choosing to 'drop his body'
on that day and stuff. I responded to a recent post asking about him
with a tongue-in-cheek response
I thought he would appreciate - that he'd been out in the Van Allen
belt and had spent some time piloting a train on Venus.
I will light a candle to St Hippo of Augustine today.
-maggie, human being
Hartley Patterson
> Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
> from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
All time posters to ARS, as archived by Google:
32094 da...@xemu.demon.co.uk
20061 The.Galactic.Federat...@ThePentagon.com
19506 zinji...@yahoo.com
18761 I...@ars.com
16002 til...@berlin.snafu.de
15000 mart...@islandnet.com
14229 bw...@pacbell.net
12126 Barbara Schwarz
11795 cleit...@bc.cc.ca.us
11460 sectic...@worldnet.fr
Dave was never short of good advice, and whenever we in ARSCC(UK) were
flagging the phone would ring with a cheery "Helllo H, hows it going?" and
he'd be fixing up another picket.
After his feet gave out on him and he couldn't join us we kept going
knowing he'd expect it, and I don't suppose he'll regard his departure as
any excuse to stop either. Yes Dave, let me get my diary out...
--
alt.religion.scientology FAQ
Please read before posting
http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/faq.htm
peters...@gmail.com
> What all Demonic creatures say, especiallly if they get or see some social
> opportunity to do so, in the hope of having AT LEAST OTHER Demonic
> creatures consent,
>
> is in order to make very evil individuals seem "good," and very good
> individuals seem "very evil."
>
> This is of course, to the Demonic creature, entirely created out of the
> fear, and born from a "compulsive self-defense," of having himself, Peter
> Schilte - hopefully at least by one besides himself - not seen, or if seen
> as he is, then not treated as a severely Demonic (sociopath) individual.
>
> He does not even know his rights as a Criminal Mind.
>
> So the severely Demonic creature "peterschilte-83.116.76.201" wrote, in
> the hope of some success for him to be sucked (by him) out of other
>
> Demonic creatures, wrote:
> > On 13 feb, 10:01, To You <r...@local.host> wrote:
> >> Dave Bird was and is a most repulsive, viciously Demonic, and violently
> >> insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
>
> > You are a mean hearted and vicious person, Koos.
>
> > Peter
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:53:33 -0800, peterschilte wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:53:33 -0800 (PST)
> > Injection-Info: d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com; posting-host=83.116.76.201; posting-account=yp7WigoAAABDR0swurZLRm15I8SpxP6t
> > Lines: 11
> > NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:53:34 +0000 (UTC)
> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.116.76.201
> > Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> > Organization: http://groups.google.com
> > Path: news.wanadoo.nl!xref.euro.net!beastiality.euro.net!news2.euro.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> > Subject: Re: Dave Bird was - and is - a most repulsive, viciously Demonic creature - Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
> > User-Agent: G2/1.0
> > X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; nl; rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20080201 Firefox/2.0.0.12,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
> > X-Trace: posting.google.com 1202896414 9934 127.0.0.1 (13 Feb 2008 09:53:34 GMT)
> > Xref: news.wanadoo.nl alt.religion.scientology:1910059
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> > On 13 feb, 10:01, To You <r...@local.host> wrote:
> >> Dave Bird was and is a most repulsive, viciously Demonic, and violently
> >> insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
>
> > You are a mean hearted and vicious person, Koos.
>
> > Peter
>
> >http://www.scamofscientology.nl
Koos, keep on vomiting your insane messages. It doesn't change the
fact you are a vicious and mean hearted hypocrite. You are no good.
You are possessed with a demonic nature. And you show it, with every
post you make here, and for everyone to see.
No matter what, you are an evil minded person. Not worth to be
addressed by me.
Peter
Kim P
My condolences to all his family and friends. He will be missed :-(
Kim P
realpch
Ohhhh. Thank you Jens.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
To You
"peters...@gmail.com-84.29.200.250" is NO exception,
and he obliges by continuing to show it in public,
for our educational purposes.
Also, Demonic creatures have no desire for truth at all, but are sucking
in and pitting out - indeed the meanest and most hateful lies about
themselves (that they are "normal," etc.) and about others - always
seeking ways and means to REVERSE truth, to substitute truth with lies, to
substitute good with evil, to substitute beauty with ugliness.
Quite a lot of work for you to repair their continuous outpouring
of repulsiveness, of their lies, and to counter their meanness,
of which On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:34:46 -0800, Peter Schilte wrote:
> Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:34:46 -0800 (PST)
> From: peters...@gmail.com
> Injection-Info: l16g2000hsh.googlegroups.com; posting-host=84.29.200.250; posting-account=yp7WigoAAABDR0swurZLRm15I8SpxP6t
> Lines: 69
> Message-ID: <3d24ca84-0d80-4b23...@l16g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:34:47 +0000 (UTC)
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 84.29.200.250
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Path: news.wanadoo.nl!xref.euro.net!beastiality.euro.net!news2.euro.net!nntpserver.com!zeus.nntpserver.com!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!l16g2000hsh.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> References: <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com> <pan.2008.02.13....@local.host> <b12c2494-91bc-4832...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <pan.2008.02.13....@local.host>
> Subject: Re: Dave Bird was - and is - a most repulsive, viciously Demonic creature - Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
> User-Agent: G2/1.0
> X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; nl; rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20080201 Firefox/2.0.0.12,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
> X-Trace: posting.google.com 1202902487 23021 127.0.0.1 (13 Feb 2008 11:34:47 GMT)
> Xref: news.wanadoo.nl alt.religion.scientology:1910105
To You
funeral of a seriously Demonic creature, and listen.
Thanks for the written proof, guys (and girls)!
Demonic creatures are not capable of friendship, but only of admiration.
"Friendship" means TO THEM, to not look at each other, and to hide each
other's ugliness and evil, and to do as if it is "beauty" and "good."
(Not a joke.)
They do not even know the concept of friendship, of love, etc..
KNT hrp&p
Copyright 2008 by KNT
Copyright conditions as usual (a type of free use as published elsewhere)
________________
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:08:14 +0000, Jens Tingleff - a "friend" of Dave
Bird - wrote:
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:08:14 +0000
> Followup-To: alt.religion.scientology
> From: Jens Tingleff <jens...@tingleff.org>
> Lines: 65
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> Reply-To: jens...@tingleff.org
> Subject: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
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Alexia Death
I didn't know him... But he seems to have mattered to you...
---,--'-----(@
Out_Of_The_Dark
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi There!
>
> Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
> from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
>
> Dave had been active in the NCCL and in the fight against miscarriages of
> justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
> as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> While Dave was a great debater - and a lot of fun - on a.r.s. he also had
> many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
> legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
> history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
>
>
> Dave brought a welcome street theatre side to our pickets, including many
> props, some of which worked, some of which didn't and the largest one of
> which was Carrie the Giant Clamshell.
>
>
> Dave worked hard at his activism, organising, doing practical things,
> designing props (the balloons were always a favourite of mine) and writing
> songs. He was a firm believer in the will of good people to show up at a
> demo that someone else had to do the hard work organising and he was happy
> to put in the work. He did ask a lot, but he gave more.
>
> The criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology didn't
> like him one little bit, as evinced by the multi-page entry on their hate
> site RFW
>
> www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/david-bird/
>
> Dave would have gotten a kick out of the day he passed away being the day of
> the largest worldwide protest against the criminal organisation known as
> the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> I'll miss him
>
> Best Regards
>
> Jens
>
> - --
> Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985
> "..the London Underground is *not* a political movement" 'A Fish Called
> Wanda'
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Condolences to his friends and loved ones. May he rest in peace.
Mary
John Dorsay
<snip>
> Dave would have gotten a kick out of the day he passed away being the day of
> the largest worldwide protest against the criminal organisation known as
> the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
It *was* a pretty good send-off. I can't think of anyone more
deserving.
> I'll miss him
As will many others.
Sad news. :(
John
JAFAW
Oh my!
What a guy!.
There's no words right now.
:(
The Badger
He will never STFU... and he needs help so badly it hurts to read him.
-_-
The Badger
One of the first posts on a.r.s. I ever read was by Dave Bird.
-_-
Ted Mayett
Farewell Dave.
His sig I liked so much:
__
.' '. "OUR GRAND DAY OUT"
: :
| _ _ | cracking clams, grommit!
.-.|(o)(o)|.-. _._ _._
-- -------( ( | .--. | ) )-----.',_ '.------.' _,'.-----------
'-/ ( ) \-' / /' `\ \ __ / /' `\ \
/ '--' \ /.' \.' './ '.\
\ `"===="` / ` : _ _ : `
`\ /' |(o)(o)|
`\ /' | | http://www.
/`-.-`\_ / \ xemu.demon.co.uk
_..:;\._/V\_./:;.._ / .--. \
.'/;:;:;\ /^\ /:;:;:\'. | ( ) |
/ /;:;:;:;\| |/:;:;:;:\ \ _\ '--' /__
_____/ /;:;:;:;:;\_/:;:;:;:;:\ \_.' '-.__.-' `-.__art_by_jgs.
MartinPoulter
science, computer programming, the law, music, Scientology... well,
everything! He was an amazing polymath.
Dave could be stubborn and belligerent: some of us got into very
heated debates with him, but it was that spirit that made him an
effective campaigner for civil liberties of many kinds, and against
miscarriages of justice. He was in some ways a pivotal person in UK
civil liberties, bringing a unique network of people together.
It's a supreme irony that the day of his death was the day of the
biggest anti-Scientology protests ever in the country, and that those
protests were very much in the spirit he wanted, with humour, costumes
and lots of singing.
A terrible loss of a unique person.
On Feb 13, 3:08 am, Jens Tingleff <jenst...@tingleff.org> wrote:
> Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
> from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
--
Dr Martin Poulter, Bristol, UK
Scientology in the UK Media: http://cosmedia.freewinds.cx/media/
Bias and Belief Blog: http://biasandbelief.wordpress.com/
Home Page: http://www.weird.co.uk/martin/
Gerry Armstrong
<jens...@tingleff.org> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Hi There!
>
>Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
>from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
Holy Crowley! Vaya con Dios, Big Dave Byrd.
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
Gerry Armstrong
To You
and revealing truth," reversing good and evil, as expected of such,
"responded" to (but refused to quote):
Dave Bird was and is a most repulsive, viciously Demonic, and violently
insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
That he died, unfortunately does not change that. (And the same applies by
the way to the suicide murderers of Islam: Their death does not change the
fact, THAT they are murderers, no matter WHAT Mohammed said about it.)
That he was a "Critic" of Scientology, does not honor the "Critics" of
course,
he has possibly done MORE HARM TO THE CAUSE of stopping Scientology,
than any other of the "Critics" here, who PRETEND so hard to "fight
for freedom and truth and justice,"
and it shows the vile insanity of those "Critics" who support(ed) and
sanction(ed) the evil of Dave Bird - obviously including the two current
condolents.
While for many "critics," like Fred Rice or Roger Gonnet or Tilman
Hausherr or Barb Graham, "being critics" seems to act like a good cover to
hide their nature,
their nature has not and will not change, by "being a Critic" of the evil
called l.ron hubbard's Scientology.
Shame on you indeed.
Now there are those Demonic creatures, who will take the customs, the
social evils and blindness that they already have put in place regarding
death and souls, to "lament" once again about TRUTH.
KNT hrp&p
Copyright 2008 by KNT
Copyright conditions as usual (a type of free use as published elsewhere)
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:42:51 -0500, The Badger <stealt...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:42:51 -0500
> From: The Badger <stealt...@gmail.com>
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> Subject: Re: David Bird -R.I.P
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To You
"enforce their 'Mafia Code' ",
"responded" to (but refused to quote):
Dave Bird was and is a most repulsive, viciously Demonic, and violently
insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
That he died, unfortunately does not change that. (And the same applies by
the way to the suicide murderers of Islam: Their death does not change the
fact, THAT they are murderers, no matter WHAT Mohammed said about it.)
That he was a "Critic" of Scientology, does not honor the "Critics" of
course,
he has possibly done MORE HARM TO THE CAUSE of stopping Scientology,
than any other of the "Critics" here, who PRETEND so hard to "fight
for freedom and truth and justice,"
and it shows the vile insanity of those "Critics" who support(ed) and
sanction(ed) the evil of Dave Bird - obviously including the two current
condolents.
While for many "critics," like Fred Rice or Roger Gonnet or Tilman
Hausherr or Barb Graham, "being critics" seems to act like a good cover to
hide their nature,
their nature has not and will not change, by "being a Critic" of the evil
called l.ron hubbard's Scientology.
Shame on you indeed.
Now there are those Demonic creatures, who will take the customs, the
social evils and blindness that they already have put in place regarding
death and souls, to "lament" once again about TRUTH.
KNT hrp&p
Copyright 2008 by KNT
Copyright conditions as usual (a type of free use as published elsewhere)
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:45:27 -0800, Alexia Death wrote:
> Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:45:27 -0800 (PST)
> From: Alexia Death <alexi...@gmail.com>
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> Subject: David Bird -R.I.P
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peters...@gmail.com
You're a sick vulture, Koos, preying on someone else's death.
You expose yourself to be a disgusting, evil minded person.
Or are the demons of your daughter's death back in your head? That
would explain a lot.
Get help.
Peter
http://www.scamofscientology.nl
Alexia Death
> > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:45:27 -0800 (PST)
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> > Koos, STFU. Somebody died, your antics are inappropriate..
>
> > I didn't know him... But he seems to have mattered to you...
>
> > ---,--'-----(@
CRAP. My proxy is more talkative than I like:P
henri
He had a heart like an ox, was afraid of nothing and nobody, and will be greatly
missed.
Few people have put as much into defending freedom of speech, not just against
Scientology, but governments and other entities. The victory of Richard and
Bonnie Woods basically gelded the cult libel litigation machine in the UK.
I'm glad he knew his torch has been taken up by many, many others.
A sig appropriate for February 10.
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Alexia Death
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>He had a heart like an ox, was afraid of nothing and nobody, and will be greatly
>missed.
Heh, yah. That describes him. He was one of the most colorful
characters in the development of this newsgroup.
>Few people have put as much into defending freedom of speech, not just against
>Scientology, but governments and other entities. The victory of Richard and
>Bonnie Woods basically gelded the cult libel litigation machine in the UK.
>
>I'm glad he knew his torch has been taken up by many, many others.
Godspeed, Dave.
D
Bruce Scott TOK
--
ciao,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
anothers...@hotmail.com
over the world came together to protest organized scientology. :)
I did not know him, but it is apparent he made a huge difference in
many people's lives.
Namaster, Dave Bird.
Another Surfer
barb
> Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
> Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985
> "..the London Underground is *not* a political movement" 'A Fish Called
> Wanda'
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Oh, dear Dave!
I hope you felt the shift in the force before you passed away. It was
something Dave worked hard to move forward, this awareness of CO$.
It was a startling privilege to meet him, as he looked like a red-headed
Hagrid and could trumpet his booming tones over the sound of traffic
without a megaphone. He was an original character, with a sharp mind and
good heart. I am happy to have had the opportunity to picket with him in
Brighton.
I'll miss him too!
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
I can haz Legion?
barb
> "Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:80c11$47b2acec$d1b71594$15...@PRIMUS.CA...
>>
>
> How very sad. Dave and I corresponded when he was active on ars.
> He was very helpful to me and seemed to be lots of fun.
>
> Thanks for your help Dave!
>
> Patty
>
>
>
I hope someone will move to preserve his websites. Lots of good (and
entertaining) material there.
barb
>> insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
>
>
back. Koos, isn't it?
Skipper
<xenu...@netscape.net> wrote:
He sounds like such a great guy it makes me want to travel and meet
other critics. Shame I didn't get to meet him.
Android Cat
web server isn't answering me.
Is it up for anyone else? (In case CoS's Apoplexy shield is blocking me.)
As I recall, they yanked Jim Beebe's page before anyone knew. (A creepy
indication of how closely they were keeping tabs on him.)
--
Ron of that ilk.
John Dorsay
> I keep checking RFW to see if they've yanked their hate page on him, but the
> web server isn't answering me.
>
> Is it up for anyone else? (In case CoS's Apoplexy shield is blocking me.)
>
> www.religiousfreedomwatch.org
I was able to connect. You have mail.
John
barb
By his words shall you know him:
http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/
Dave was great, and hysterically funny in that odd British way they have...
The Badger
BTW: running a Usenet client as root is Bad.
The Badger
So is Koos. -_-
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:08:14 +0000, Jens Tingleff
>
>
> One of the first posts on a.r.s. I ever read was by Dave Bird.
>
> -_-
He lived to see the pickets of Feb 10th, I bet he is smiling right
now
RIP
arnie
Ron
<x...@galacticfederation.org> wrote:
> To You wrote:
> > Dave Bird was and is a most repulsive, viciously Demonic, and violently
> > insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
>
> for so long :
>
> "Woof woof (glug glug) .. who drowned the judge's dog ?"
>
> Well, go on. Answer the question!
Its been years since I was previously active here, but I definitely
remember that sig!
John Dorsay
I fixed your subject line for you, psychokiller.
John
Feisty
"Skipper" <dadw...@gmail.not> wrote in message
news:130220080843152026%dadw...@gmail.not...
Dave,
Thank you for all the times you shared such highly stimulating
conversations. One does not forget the smile the Xenu balloons brought as a
cheery disposition to the message you passed along.. And, interesting
conversations with much intellectual insight provided more than awareness,
it stimulated growth. Which is sorely missed against the bureaucratic
control machine that will do everything to rob our voices or peaceful
collective. You invited conversations with interesting thoughts (with
respect and patience) on any normal day, and you taught me things for which
I reflect upon today.
Peace Dave,
Maureen
> He sounds like such a great guy it makes me want to travel and meet
> other critics. Shame I didn't get to meet him.
Scientology, terrorism, same control mechanism
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_thread/thread
/13f017c9f223d68d/dfa8f7733791ce9d?hl=en&#dfa8f7733791ce9d
>>>> But I'm concerned with the narrow question of what succeeded
>>>> in Weimar germany.
>>>A question of neither more nor less importance than what succeeded in
>>>Afghanistan, though I suspect there is so much chaos involved that the
>>>answer may never be known. (I.e., when we get to rerunning the 20th
>>>century in simulations it may turn out that tiny variations have huge
>>>effects)
>> Agreed.
>>>>>I think that social and economic disruptions set
>>>>>up the conditions for particularly nasty meme driven social movements
>>>>>to emerge. Perhaps this is because in miserable conditions people are
>>>>>not getting the endorphin rewards they need but my thoughts on this
>>>>>subject are not well developed.
>>>> I'll second that :) also there is a whole lot of neurochemical
>>>> and behavioural factors other than the constant repetition of
>>>> endorphin. For reference, PLEASURE is mediated by dopmanine
>>>> and also general ability to originate and vary behaviour,
>>>> ENERGY and excitement by norepinephrine; CONTENTMENT after
>>>> pleasure by endorphins; ROUTINISATION by serotonin which,
>>>> though it is not actually contentment, has a calming effect
>>>> because it says "carry on doing exactly the same actions
>>>> because they obviously succeeded in getting reward".
>>>And every one of these neurochemical and related behavioral pathways
>>>was shaped by long term evolution. A lot of the we share with all
>>>mammals. Most have obvious functions, we eat when hungry and drink
>>>when thirsty. The ones inducing subtle social behavior are not as
>>>easy to figure out.
>> Probably because they weren't designed by a person who had
>> intentions and foresaw consequences to do this or that, they
>> sort of grew and accreted when it emerged that a system which
>> did one thing could be varied to do another thing as well.
>> Think of it like a pentium II instruction set: it's complicated
>> shite, because it kept being remade to be compatible and
>> compatible and compatible and nobody dared say "for f@@@'s
>> sake we need a complete new instruction set conceived to
>> do the present task not be half-compatible with 1970s 8bit chips"
>Evolution is just like that. Nature of the beast.
"Bodged solutions"
>>>In fact, evolution may have shaped us to be blind
>>>to certain facts about social interactions.
>> Arguable. Present society depends on a great deal of hypocritical
>> mystification about the real nature of what is going on because
>> basically a lot of it is group insanity built by insane individuals,
>> with all the paranoid defences against genuine debate which you
>> find in a clam defending his chrutch <spit>, or a hypnotised
>> subject defending his posthypnotic suggestion. I can't hear
>> you I can't HEAR you. I've explained that already you weren't
>> listening. You've just done <whatever it is I've just done>.
>> I'm far too busy to answer. Etc.
>There is a lot related to this topic in Michael Gazzaniga's works. I
>have cited some of it, particularly the Social Brain. There are
>sections of the brain which do an amazing job of building a consistent
>picture of the world and they work well even when making pure BS.
Interesting.
>>>>>> But in my mind the 'virus', so to speak, doesn't really have any
>>>>>> life outside the individual minds enacting it: I am interested
>>>>>> in their abnormal psychology, in what they are doing with the
>>>>>> belief system and why, than in the belief system itself.
>>>>>Of course you are right on your first point. There is a philosophical
>>>>>argument some people use that a meme can only exist in a mind. But
>>>> That is sort of the point I am making, but more that there is "choice
>>>> of axioms" here, and analysing the nature of the persons rather than
>>>> the beliefs has better explanatory power... and, more than that, this
>>>> verifies that behaviours really are the more fundamental underlying
>>>> phenomena. Just as there really are electrons which explain magnetism,
>>>> rather than magnetons which explain electricity.
>>>I don't believe this is an either/or situation. I don't think you can
>>>explain virus infections without considering both the environment of
>>>the cell nucleus and the mechanisms the virus uses to get into the
>>>cell. With memes, you have to consider how well the meme (directly or
>>>through links) rewards people, and now well it "fits" into the
>>>existing memes. As a specific example, consider phrenology. As a
>>>meme set in the scientific world it failed because if did not pass the
>>>tests needed by a meme to be acceptable in that world. Astrology is
>>>just as silly, but it makes no attempt to fit into a scientific set of
>>>memes.
>> I beginning to see it has some use though, as I say, individual / group
>> psychology is often the best way to discover what is going on, and
>> evolutionary methods mostly help validate what you've learned.
>I see it more that evolutionary psychology is to psychology as
>evolution is to the rest of biology. Evolution is *the* underlying
>foundation for understanding all of biology. In a similar way, people
>have to understand elements before they can makes sense out chemistry.
Yes, and pretty much we use evolution to validate or explain
patterns we came across by other means.
>>>I should also point out that the vast majority of memes are helpful or
>>>at least harmless.
>>>There is also a vast difference in how susceptible people are. I once
>>>met a guy who as near as my probing could detect had no filter on
>>>inbound information at all. He believed in every urban legend I knew
>>>about.
>> I've met the type.
>>>> My complaint against EP is along the same pragmatic lines.
>>>> It is undoubtedly true most of these things were created
>>>> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>>>> by social evolution. The problem is that, in practice,
>>>> ::::::::::::::::::::'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
>>>> it has very little predictive power in forming hypotheses
>>>> of how behaviour might work. Rather, you find the mechanisms
>>>> from observation then after-the-fact VALIDATE them ("ah, yes,
>>>> and now I know what's happening I can also see how it evolved").
>>>Predicting results in contrived experiments is only a part of how
>>>science works. Building models is a major part and tying a lot of
>>>different observations into a coherent whole is another.
>> Well, for example, to actually work out what is happening
>> in collapse and conversion we need to analyse individual
>> behaviour: nothing else is much use to induce hypotheses
>> we might test or deduce patterns from observation. From
>> there we go to group behaviour. By the time we know what
>> we have, we start to say "ah, I can see how this was adaptive
>> for individuals and that was adaptive for groups." By the
>> time we've got that far we can start using fancy epidemiological
>> analogies of the crazes themselves, "that came to a halt here
>> because it was well suited to the culture and assumptions of
>> the first group but, when it needed to cross a boundary, it found
>> it wasn't at all suited to the culture and assumptions of
>> another group."
>Two things here. You are talking about a higher level than I have
>tried to reach. And second, dig into the literature on evolution as
>it relates to groups and see where this leads into serious problems
>with logic.
Well, give me some sources and I might read up on it.
>>>If you
>>>tentatively assume an evolved social reorientation response to
>>>capture, a lot of seeming unrelated psychological observation suddenly
>>>fit in one bin. Brainwashing of the Patty Hearst type, battered
>>>spouse syndrome, Stockholm syndrome, army basic training, fraternity
>>>hazing, cult deprogramming and the effect of the RPF in scientology
>>>all fit into the same box. Predictions: males, especially older
>>>males will be less likely to socially reorient on capture since in
>>>times long gone by they were usually killed.
>> Right. We've (almost?) got evolution making a prediction which
>> we can then validate with behavioural analysis rather than
>> vice versa. Remembering what I said about maleness and 'making'?
>> females tend more to socialise, so they tend more to re-socialise;
>> of course this would fit in with an evolutionary capture model,
>> where captured females are a valuable asset to your population
>> growth, but who needs a spare prick at the wedding i.e. they
>> can be impregnated by the existing males without troublesome
>> assertive captured males. Older people would have 'rooted' in
>> making or belonging of course, while adolescents have no place yet
>> in the tribe so are open to change. They'll make a place for
>> themselves with whatever materials come to hand, whether copying
>> from their elders or figuring out new opportunities.
>A good part of the reason wars are fought between tribes is for
>reproductive advantage by the males. It is rare that the whole
>population is slaughtered, but often the children are. This is what
>happens when a new set of male lions takes over or in some monkeys.
Great minds think alike, it does look like what happens
when a new cousin-band of males take over the females of a pride.
>>>Hmm. I could use the phrase "social approval" or "expressed social
>>>approval" in place of "attention,"
>> No, not the point. There is both "approving attention" and
>>"disapproving attention" like the naughty child seeks;
>I think the mental craving for attention is so strong that in a lot of
>cases people fail to distinguish between approving and disapproving
>attention.
Erm... they always start out preferring approval. If they can't
get it then they become distorted, and even disapproval is better
than indifference.
>And you can have different groups approving and disapproving and have
>to make a choice as to which one you want. For example, most of the
>civilized world thinks the suicide pilots were evil but they get high
>praise from some in their culture whose opinion has a lot more
>importance to them.
Now, there is a different orientation between being a boy scout
where you like it because (a) comrades approve of you and (b)
outsiders approve of you, or being a hell's angel where you like
it because (a) comrades approve of you and (b) outsiders fear you.
>> but there is also feedback attention of self-reward and self-censure.
>>"patting YOURSELF on the back" (or "kicking YOURSELF in the ankle")
>> for doing what you have learned to believe others (dis-)approve of.
>I noted this. The example is a hunter getting pleasure out of
>bringing down a large animal when he knows he will get high praise for
>doing so later.
Indeed. But I think it is a very important factor that people can
reward themselves with approval for doing what they have learned
others approve of. If you think about it, having "self-worth"
"self-love" "self-regard" "self-esteem" are ways of saying that
you know (and are able to do) what others will approve of.
When you don't know (or are unable to do) what others will
approve of, you lose direction and impetus... your guidance
system no longer tells you which way to go... you are on the
downslide to a breakdown of present habits.
Using this mechanism to derive mechanisms as apparently different
as conscience and self-esteem is something which has only just
occurred to me as I write. Certainly I'm working this out on
the fly, I haven't seen it expressed elsewhere.
>>>> First making and doing. ON AVERAGE males are less empathic and
>>>> probably have smaller amygdala per brain weight; it orients them
>>>> less to socialisation and more to physical things, more to
>>>> pursuing their own ideas resolutely or even ruthlessly though
>>>> to completion, while females contributes more to social cohesion.
>>>Maybe so, but read the book Chimpanzee Politics--Power and Sex Among
>>>Apes by Frans De Waal. Males in a chimpanzee tribe are forced to
>>>maintain good relations because of the constant threat from outside.
>>>They can get in awful fights, but they have to forgive, make up and
>>>stay on good terms to present a united front. Females are not so
>>>restricted. In my experience human sisters are more likely to be on
>>>non speaking terms than brothers, but this is not a scientific study,
>>>though perhaps it should be done.
>> Yes, I see where you're going and it's good to have another
>> viewpoint. There is the cliched picture of the cave-men
>> being the ones who go out and hunt, the cavewomen being
>> the ones who stay home and form the network of communal
>> relations; particularly, the older women being the ones
>> who accumulate the culture and wisdom, and pass it to the young.
>> I wasn't meaning so much that "the females are always on
>> good terms", but rather "they spend more time interacting
>> with others in the group -- whether friendly or squabbling."
>> The cliche picture, and it is an AVERAGE that you can't
>> force-fit onto every individuals, is that the males spend
>> more time on things and plans (correspondingly they have
>> more spatial and less verbal intelligence).
>There is no question that females are more verbal. Perhaps it is due
>to males who talked on the hunt not bringing back as much meat.
Seriously, talking is what you do for interactions among your
own kind, planning and manoeuvring is what you do to hunt.
>> Again, when you talk about force and conflict... don't assume
>> that springs are only compressed when you see them spring open.
>> By which I mean, "FORCE" consists of forcing another to do
>> what you want them to do and they don't want to do: it only
>> comes to blows when they refuse and say "make me". Consequently
>> males can be figuratively "pushing" others around and living
>> lives based more on dominance -- indeed, you have identified
>> that they are -- without seeing an arm fly out and literally
>> push or punch another individual. Males are less likely
>> to OPENLY express anger and lash out, because they blows
>> will be for real and the consequences quite serious. Hence
>> status clashes among males are much more contained into
>> posturing or established dominance, so they are not wasted
>> by constantly injuring each other.
>Even with chimps, rising in the dominance hierarchy is more due to
>cooperative politics than it is to raw fighting. I.e., two average
>individuals can defeat a strong one.
I thought you were going to say "is more by posturing and negotiating
than actual blows." No, I quite see that the factors towards power
have changed in groups where non-kin can make alliances. Suddenly
it is cunning not muscles that wins; hence cunning is favoured
for breeding. Have you read Nick Humphries, who reckons in essence
that this "you scratch my back & I'll scratch yours" (or "let's
you and me go steal his bananas") is precisely what lead to
intelligence involving: that the empathic use for making alliances
is prior to observing and prodding at things as if they can perhaps
become our allies too.
>Most leadership is of the
>willing rather than the coerced. Take a read at Matt Ridley's works,
>The Red Queen and Origin of Virtue. (British author).
>>>> So, yin and yang, "making" is on average more often a male
>>>> orientation and "belonging" a female orientation. "Making"
>>>> is doing things with things and plans which you see now
>>>> (pr have learned will) get you favourable attention, and
>>>> "belonging" is social interactions which likewise; one gets
>>>> approval for helping the community jointly as a whole, the
>>>> other for helping the community severally thru' needy members.
>>>It could be, but I think the case could be made that is about as
>>>strong for it being the other way. Social clubs tend to be much more
>>>male oriented, for example. It would be an interesting point to count
>>>the number of male oriented vs female oriented clubs in a town.
>> Erm, yes.... presumably the assumption is that traditionally
>> women socialise more through the immediate and extended family,
>> over the garden wall, etc, while males go out and meet the
>> next tribe and pow-wow. Which is what social clubs are for :0)
>>>> But in terms of attention, you have overlooked the feedback
>>>> mechanism. In deciding what to do. we learn what gets approving
>>>> attention now, and continue doing it on the basis it is likely
>>>> to get more in future.
>>>I don't thing you have a case about overlooking.
>>>From my 1996 paper, A Memetic/Evolutionary Psychology Connection
>>>Between Drugs and Cults
>> OK, I'll have a look....
>>>"It follows that humans would have evolved to be exquisitely
>>>sensitive to changes in status, which (no surprise) is the observed
>>>situation. Activities which lead to feelings of increasing status
>>>are highly rewarding: that is, they cause the release of chemicals
>>>which induce highly pleasurable states in the brain. This reward
>>>system is fundamental to human motivation, and in the ancestral
>>>environment it worked to enhance reproductive success most of the
>>>time. It makes sense for hunters who brought in the first meat the
>>>tribe has seen in six weeks to get a lot of attention (a mark of
>>>status) from the other tribe members and to experience rewarding
>>>feelings about what they had done as a (real) increase in social
>>>status. Of course, people tend to repeat behavior which led to
>>>flooding their brains with pleasurable chemicals. In our hunter
>>>example, more hunting leads to more protein for the hunter's
>>>mate(s) and children which in turn leads to improved reproductive
>>>success--and thus to another generation of status-seeking hunters
>>>who are rewarded individually with brain chemicals and in the
>>>evolutionary sense by more children. There are two causal loops
>>>involved here. The short term one acts over hours to years, and
>>>the long term one over generations. The long term loop sets up
>>>susceptibility to the short term loop.
>>>"In short, an action (such as hunting) leads to attention (an
>>>indicator of status) which in the short term releases rewarding
>>>brain chemicals and in the long term improves reproductive success.
>>>"Simple conditioning of the Pavlovian type will move some of the
>>>reward release "upstream" so that the acts which later result in
>>>reward chemical releases will themselves become rewarding."
>>>I didn't use the word, but you can see I am describing multiple
>>>feedback mechanisms here.
>> Kind of. I don't think we're talking the same thing here.
>> You see, you said: "every time OTHERS APPROVE AN ACTION that
>> gives you a reward of pleasure chemicals, and you tend to
>> do the same action again." Which is fair enough.
>> But I said: "every time you do an action WHICH YOU HAVE COME
>> TO BELIEVE OTHERS APPROVE OF (EVEN WITH NO OTHERS WATCHING) then
>> then you induce in yourself a further surge of pleasure chemicals."
>> And keep on rewarding YOURSELF for the action, until such time
>> as others show you it is no longer approved of.
>> See the difference?
>Not really. You can spend many hours hunting or stacking up the
>winter's wood all alone getting some rewards from knowing people will
>approve if it when you are done. I think I said essentially what you
>did here 4 paragraphs up where it starts with "Simple conditioning . .
>. "
I think perhaps you did, and I missed it in my haste :-).
>> It is like the difference between your literal "obedience" of the
>> immediate order, versus a wider "co-operation" where you yourself
>> carry out what you anticipate the other intends of you without
>> having to be told. If we only obeyed immediate orders and did
>> not volunteer cooperation, hierarchy would not work: the child
>> who "has to be told every time" is a great big pain in the ass.
>> In other words you give yourself a pat on the back when you
>> do what you have learned did, and anticipate will, get approval,
>> without need of explicit approval of good action (or reproval
>> of bad action) every time. You cooperate: it is one and the same thing.
>> Do you see what I mean here?
>Actually, I fully agree.
Right: that installing of self-correction explains things as
diverse as conscience and self-esteem, it is a key idea.
>>>> I don't deny its power for explaining and validating, I just don't
>>>> think it's the best tool for predicting or suggesting hypotheses.
>>>If you have better tools, be happy to hear about them.
>> Behavioural and neurochemical ones.
>Ok, but where did behavior and neurochemistry come from? And why this
>particular behavior and this particular neurochemistry? Point being
>that these particular ones came about because the particular behavior
>and neurochemistry resulting from certain genes were better at getting
>copies of those very genes into the next generation than alternate
>behaviors and neurochemistries.
>>I flat out disagree with you on this point. Fanatic memes very seldom
>>"best meets the underlying needs." Generally they result in massive
>>misery. I can't think of a counter example and the world abounds with
>>examples to support my contention. Can anyone say the nazi memes were
>>good for Germany? That Communism was good for the USSR? That the
>>Taliban is good for Afghanistan?
> Here we are disagreeing on the definition of a term: I meant that
> the fanatical belief meets the unacknowledged EMOTIONAL NEEDS of the
> person who has gone fanatical.... just as perhaps picking up a fire-axe
> and chopping his neighbours into small bloody chunks might satisfy the
> emotional need to vent his rage on someone.
> I did not mean that it was objectively beneficial to him or others.
Ok, we have a lot less disagreement than it seemed. I would still
argue that the particular details of the a fanatic meme are less
important than the intense human interaction it causes because EST,
scientology, TM, the moonies, COG, communism, and the Taliban all are
using the same human reward system.
"Rev" Norle Enturbulata, DTS, COD
"Ron" <nmfir...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:80799748-9d99-4bca...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
In particular before I heard about Dave I was thinking about another sig of
his that usually followed a picket, coining the term A Grand Day Out, and
"cracking clams, Gromit!" I think Dave's overtaxed heart would have warmed
considerably upon seeing the mass effect.
--
"Rev" Norle Enturbulata DDT, DTS
*
http://tinyurl.com/yre7c6
http://xenutv.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/panorama-scientology-and-me/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
Android Cat
Judge Swearinger and Duke:
25 Years Later, a High-Profile Superior Court Case Is Still on the Active
List October 28, 2005, Roger M. Grace, Metropolitan News-Enterprise
http://www.metnews.com/articles/2005/perspectives102805.htm
An Ultra-Aggressive Use of Investigators and the Courts March 9, 1997,
Douglas Frantz, New York Times
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F01E3D71639F93AA35750C0A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
Earle Cooley is chairman of BU's board of trustees. He's also made a career
out of keeping L. Ron Hubbard's secrets. April 19, 1996, Dan Kennedy, BU's
Scientology Connection, Boston Phoenix
http://bostonphoenix.com/alt1/archive/specials/scientology/SCIENTOLOGY_1.html
Hardball: When Scientology goes to court, it likes to play rough -- very
rough. January 28, 1998, Lucy Morgan, Special Report, St. Petersburg Times
http://www.sptimes.com/News/32899/TampaBay/Hardball.html
Dave in print:
At home: Critics public and private keep pressure on Scientology March 29,
1999, Lucy Morgan, St. Petersburg Times
http://www.sptimes.com/News/32999/Worldandnation/At_home__Critics_publ.html
In England pickets travel with a toy dog that wears water wings. They carry
signs suggesting that Duke, the dog of Los Angeles Judge Ronald Swearinger,
drowned at the hands of Scientology. The church has vehemently denied any
responsibility for Duke's death.
Scientology Critic Convicted April 27, 2001, Declan McCullagh, Wired
http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/04/43420
"A dodgy District Attorney, with cult lawyers sitting at the prosecutor's
table, set him up for absurd charges of threatening the cult with cruise
missiles," says Dave Bird, another Scientology critic. "Virtually all the
defense evidence was excluded.... Even when Henson quoted L. Ron Hubbard's
violent words, it was presented as his own speech without quotation marks."
--
' ' ' .:::. ' :: ' ' 'what do Scientologists say when ' http://www.
' (o\ /o) .::. ' you ask why their money-grubbing ' xemu.demon.
' \ " / XEMU ' killed a woman by starvation? ' co.uk '
' '-' :::: ' - - - -http://www.lisatrust.net - ' ' ' ' ' ' '
' :v: \'''| ' BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT '
' ;;\:::/;;\/ / ' OO / / \ ? '
' ;;;;;;;;;BEER ' (~~) .00 @@-._ \ '
' WithAKick\/ ' ( ) ( =) (O ) ( ") (" )
' 'LikeAnHBomb ' ' ' ' ^^^^ ' ' ^^ ^^ ' ' ' ' ^^ ^^ ' ' "" ' ""
"Rev" Norle Enturbulata, DTS, COD
"Ted Mayett" <ars.to.t...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:8mt5r3tjt9aqv3061...@4ax.com...
>
> Farewell Dave.
> His sig I liked so much:
>
> __
> .' '. "OUR GRAND DAY OUT"
> : :
> | _ _ | cracking clams, grommit!
> .-.|(o)(o)|.-. _._ _._
> -- -------( ( | .--. | ) )-----.',_ '.------.' _,'.-----------
> '-/ ( ) \-' / /' `\ \ __ / /' `\ \
> / '--' \ /.' \.' './ '.\
> \ `"===="` / ` : _ _ : `
> `\ /' |(o)(o)|
> `\ /' | | http://www.
> /`-.-`\_ / \ xemu.demon.co.uk
> _..:;\._/V\_./:;.._ / .--. \
> .'/;:;:;\ /^\ /:;:;:\'. | ( ) |
> / /;:;:;:;\| |/:;:;:;:\ \ _\ '--' /__
> _____/ /;:;:;:;:;\_/:;:;:;:;:\ \_.' '-.__.-' `-.__art_by_jgs.
>
>
That's the one I was thinking about. :)
"Rev" Norle Enturbulata, DTS, COD
Poor cult! Cult's widdle DA hate page doesn't even respond to a ping!
Awww!
Out_Of_The_Dark
> This was very sad news. I was impressed by Dave's knowledge of
> science, computer programming, the law, music, Scientology... well,
> everything! He was an amazing polymath.
>
> Dave could be stubborn and belligerent: some of us got into very
> heated debates with him, but it was that spirit that made him an
> effective campaigner for civil liberties of many kinds, and against
> miscarriages of justice. He was in some ways a pivotal person in UK
> civil liberties, bringing a unique network of people together.
>
> It's a supreme irony that the day of his death was the day of the
> biggest anti-Scientology protests ever in the country, and that those
> protests were very much in the spirit he wanted, with humour, costumes
> and lots of singing.
>
> A terrible loss of a unique person.
>
> On Feb 13, 3:08 am, Jens Tingleff <jenst...@tingleff.org> wrote:> Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
> > from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
> Dr Martin Poulter, Bristol, UK
>
> Scientology in the UK Media: http://cosmedia.freewinds.cx/media/
> Bias and Belief Blog: http://biasandbelief.wordpress.com/
> Home Page: http://www.weird.co.uk/martin/
Thanks for posting this. It's good to know these things.
Mary
To You
physically and spiritually,
while he was, of course, most viciously opposing any understanding and
love and beauty. This is however liked by similar "critics."
He was the laughing stock of Scientologists and the local police, when he
"picketed" - which is not hard to imagine.
He continuously drove people insane, and issued repeatedly the most
violent death threats - in writing, mind you, for all "critics" to read
on this newsgroup.
'Android Cat' via primus.ca, goes out of his way to deny the actual
condition and actual activities and intention of this potential murderer
who was very active to DESTROY any organized opposition against
Scientology, and to oppose and fight AGAINST any understanding of what is
going on in Scientology.
But what else can you expect of a severely Demonic creature like Dave Bird.
This is further proof how UTTERLY INSANE the "old guard" of "Critics" was,
and is, and desires to remain.
Quite the every opposite: understanding and care and justice and beauty in
person I am, to anyone of even a rudimentary level of sanity.
Or in other words:
Quite their opposite, Koos Nolst Trenite ('Cause Trinity') is
arguably the most intelligent, beautiful, caring and loving,
and the most truthful philosopher known.
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:01:06 -0500, Android Cat wrote:
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:01:06 -0500
> From: "Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com>
> Lines: 66
> Message-ID: <2a885$47b33e4a$cf70599e$23...@PRIMUS.CA>
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Organization: Sandor Arbitration Intelligence at the Zoo
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> Subject: Re: Dave Bird was - and is - a most repulsive, viciously Demonic creature - Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
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Michael Pattinson
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi There!
>
> from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
>
> Dave had been active in the NCCL and in the fight against miscarriages of
> justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
> as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> While Dave was a great debater - and a lot of fun - on a.r.s. he also had
> many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
> legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
> history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
>
>
> Dave brought a welcome street theatre side to our pickets, including many
> props, some of which worked, some of which didn't and the largest one of
> which was Carrie the Giant Clamshell.
>
>
> Dave worked hard at his activism, organising, doing practical things,
> designing props (the balloons were always a favourite of mine) and writing
> songs. He was a firm believer in the will of good people to show up at a
> demo that someone else had to do the hard work organising and he was happy
> to put in the work. He did ask a lot, but he gave more.
>
> The criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology didn't
> like him one little bit, as evinced by the multi-page entry on their hate
> site RFW
>
> www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/david-bird/
>
> Dave would have gotten a kick out of the day he passed away being the day of
> the largest worldwide protest against the criminal organisation known as
> the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> I'll miss him
>
> Best Regards
>
> Jens
>
> - --
> Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985
> "..the London Underground is *not* a political movement" 'A Fish Called
> Wanda'
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R.I P and
Thanks Dave very much for all the good things you contributed!
:-))
Michael.
To You
Demonic creature, spewed his untamed HATE onto Re: Dave Bird was - and is
- a most repulsive, viciously Demonic creature.
Give my very best wishes to Homer Wilson Smith, the Demon of lightlink.com
You should be able to convince each other of mutual "friendship."
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:45 -0500, John Dorsay wrote:
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:45 -0500
> From: John Dorsay <restim...@gmail.com>
> In-Reply-To: <pan.2008.02.13....@local.host>
> Lines: 4
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> References: <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com> <pan.2008.02.13....@local.host>
> Subject: Re: Dave Bird was - and is - a most remarkable and entertaining critic - Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
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The Badger
John Dorsay
I fixed your subject line *again*, psychokiller. Please try to be
more careful.
To You
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:35:37 -0800, 'barb' the wholy Demonic
creature Barbara Graham, Psycho-68.8.227.55, did write to that effect.
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:35:37 -0800
> From: barb <xenu...@netscape.net>
> In-Reply-To: <b12c2494-91bc-4832...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
> Lines: 19
> Message-ID: <h%Esj.850$tz2...@newsfe19.lga>
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:35:25 MST
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.8.227.55
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Organization: Cox
> Path: news.wanadoo.nl!xref.euro.net!beastiality.euro.net!news2.euro.net!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!130.81.64.211.MISMATCH!cycny01.gnilink.net!hwmnpeer01.lga!news.highwinds-media.com!hw-filter.lga!newsfe19.lga.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
> References: <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com> <pan.2008.02.13....@local.host> <b12c2494-91bc-4832...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Dave Bird was - and is - a most repulsive, viciously Demonic creature - Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031)
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>
The Badger
>Quite their opposite, Koos Nolst Trenite ('Cause Trinity') is
>arguably the most intelligent, beautiful, caring and loving,
>and the most truthful philosopher known.
ITT: Koos faps to pictures of himself.
(sorry, it had to be said - since I'm already a Demonic Creature, and
all.)
jerald
<ars.to.tedmay...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote:
> Farewell Dave.
> His sig I liked so much:
>
> __
> .' '. "OUR GRAND DAY OUT"
> : :
> | _ _ | cracking clams, grommit!
> .-.|(o)(o)|.-. _._ _._
> -- -------( ( | .--. | ) )-----.',_ '.------.' _,'.-----------
> '-/ ( ) \-' / /' `\ \ __ / /' `\ \
> / '--' \ /.' \.' './ '.\
> \ `"===="` / ` : _ _ : `
> `\ /' |(o)(o)|
> `\ /' | | http://www.
> /`-.-`\_ / \ xemu.demon.co.uk
> _..:;\._/V\_./:;.._ / .--. \
> .'/;:;:;\ /^\ /:;:;:\'. | ( ) |
> / /;:;:;:;\| |/:;:;:;:\ \ _\ '--' /__
> _____/ /;:;:;:;:;\_/:;:;:;:;:\ \_.' '-.__.-' `-.__art_by_jgs.
I went back and read some of this writing. I wish I could have known
him.
jerald
jackson.vane
you a hint, it's not that you were as you put it "most intelligent,
beautiful, caring and loving,
and the most truthful philosopher known." No Koos, you will be known
as a hateful person who goes about persecuting others who don't
believe in what you do.
A man died Koos, do you understand that. He died. Instead of going
about making fun of him or calling him a demon, how about you say
something nice like rest in peace or nothing at all.
I'm not going to make a stab about your personal life or anything like
that, but don't insult myself and everyone else here by posting your
"articles" and making your accusations and let him rest in peace. You
of all people should know how tough loss can be and persecuting others
after they have passed on just showed how you are the opposite of
everything you have said you were.
/end rant
banchukita
I can still see Dave's page on there, as of 3:40 EST. My guess is
they've got a few other priorities to deal with after last Sunday. :D
That's creepy about JBB. I didn't know that.
-maggie, human being
John Dorsay
Please pay more attention to your subject lines, psychokiller. I
don't plan on fixing them for you forever, you know?
henri
>On 13 feb, 10:01, To You <r...@local.host> wrote:
>> Dave Bird was and is a most repulsive, viciously Demonic, and violently
>> insane, highly destructive, murderous creature.
>You are a mean hearted and vicious person, Koos.
You expect better from a murderer?
Jommy Cross
wrote in msg <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com>:
<snip>
>
>I'll miss him
Farewell then St Hippo of Augustine. I've been missing him since he stopped
posting.
There's going to be some heavy action at the Implant Station handling Dave.
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
Black Mamba
news:fc28062ca2a461fc...@pseudo.borked.net...
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:08:14 +0000, Jens Tingleff <jens...@tingleff.org>
> wrote in msg <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com>:
> <snip>
>>
>>I'll miss him
>
> Farewell then St Hippo of Augustine. I've been missing him since he
> stopped
> posting.
>
> There's going to be some heavy action at the Implant Station handling
> Dave.
>
> Ever yours in fandom,
> Jommy Cross
The religous freedom watch is still very out of present time and has not
yet removed him from their list of arch villains. As if he still might be
living.
That is surprising because others have been removed such as Jim Bebe on
the THE DAY that they died not days or weeks later.
Larry
Gregg Hagglund
Goodbye Dave.
You were always unbeatable.
And what you did for Bonnie ultimately helped protect
my family too.
I remember the last joke you ever sent me.
Why does Lucifer welcome Scientologists to his table?
He is found of heated Clams.....
Woof Woof!
We'll all be seeing you some day.
Gregg Hagglund
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:08:14 +0000, Jens Tingleff
<jens...@tingleff.org> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Hi There!
>
>Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
>from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
>http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/images/EGrinstead9903/DaveB1_l.jpg
>http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/
>
>Dave had been active in the NCCL and in the fight against miscarriages of
>justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
>as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
>While Dave was a great debater - and a lot of fun - on a.r.s. he also had
>many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
>legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
>history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
>
>http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/wood3.htm
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/sp861.htm
>
>Dave brought a welcome street theatre side to our pickets, including many
>props, some of which worked, some of which didn't and the largest one of
>which was Carrie the Giant Clamshell.
>
>http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/muslinger/poole980314_a.html#mar28th
To You
R.I.P.
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:51:38 -0500, Gregg Hagglund wrote:
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:51:38 -0500
> From: Gregg Hagglund <elr...@cogeco.ca>
> Lines: 72
> Message-ID: <fuh7r350ngmkvb5sb...@4ax.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:51:46 EST
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.39.65.130
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Organization: Cogeco Cable
> Path: news.wanadoo.nl!xref.euro.net!beastiality.euro.net!news2.euro.net!news.glorb.com!feed.cgocable.net!read2.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
> References: <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com>
> Subject: Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
> X-Complaints-To: ne...@cogeco.net
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Alexia Death
Dave, may the forces of beyond welcome you.
Hud Nordin
To You
awareness and connection to life - Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
Strange Internet fellows indeed!
But of course, "nobody should know about that," "everybody should be
falsely informed."
Maybe the poster would feel more at ease in China or in another
dictatorship, in Cuba, where good and evil are REVERSED.
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:56:06 +0000, Hud Nordin wrote:
> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:56:06 +0000 (UTC)
> From: h...@panix.com (Hud Nordin)
> Lines: 5
> Message-ID: <fp0om6$bbb$1...@reader2.panix.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:56:06 +0000 (UTC)
> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Organization: 01101001.com
> Path: news.wanadoo.nl!xref.euro.net!beastiality.euro.net!news2.euro.net!news-out2.kabelfoon.nl!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!bandi.nntp.kabelfoon.nl!newsfeed.freenet.de!feeder.news-service.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news-out.readnews.com!transit3.readnews.com!panix!not-for-mail
> References: <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com> <47b2ef6b$1...@news2.lightlink.com>
> Reply-To: h...@panix.com
> Subject: Re: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@panix.com
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Alexia Death
To You
see them. Not that they would know what perception IS.
They are vile Criminals actually, potential murderers, we should not
forget their death threats.
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 01:06:49 -0800, Alexia Death wrote:
> Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 01:06:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: Alexia Death <alexi...@gmail.com>
> Injection-Info: e30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.159.185.202; posting-account=OxceLwoAAAC94z5Nne-erV9aH5ojC3Lw
> Lines: 1
> Message-ID: <33bf5434-3144-4a62...@e30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:06:49 +0000 (UTC)
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.159.185.202
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Path: news.wanadoo.nl!xref.euro.net!beastiality.euro.net!news2.euro.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!e30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> References: <fou8...@news3.newsguy.com> <47b2ef6b$1...@news2.lightlink.com> <fp0om6$bbb$1...@reader2.panix.com> <pan.2008.02.14....@local.host>
> Subject: Dave Bird, R.I.P.
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> ---,----'--(@
Alexia Death
...Perhaps a rose for each time Koos tramples on your memory, Dave,
will make up for it...
Roger Larsson
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi There!
>
> Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
> from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
>
> Dave had been active in the NCCL and in the fight against miscarriages of
> justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
> as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> While Dave was a great debater - and a lot of fun - on a.r.s. he also had
> many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
> legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
> history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
>
>
> Dave brought a welcome street theatre side to our pickets, including many
> props, some of which worked, some of which didn't and the largest one of
> which was Carrie the Giant Clamshell.
>
>
> Dave worked hard at his activism, organising, doing practical things,
> designing props (the balloons were always a favourite of mine) and writing
> songs. He was a firm believer in the will of good people to show up at a
> demo that someone else had to do the hard work organising and he was happy
> to put in the work. He did ask a lot, but he gave more.
>
> The criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology didn't
> like him one little bit, as evinced by the multi-page entry on their hate
> site RFW
>
> www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/david-bird/
>
> Dave would have gotten a kick out of the day he passed away being the day of
> the largest worldwide protest against the criminal organisation known as
> the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> I'll miss him
>
> Best Regards
>
> Jens
>
> Key ID 0x09723C12, jenst...@tingleff.org
> Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985
> "..the London Underground is *not* a political movement" 'A Fish Called
> Wanda'
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We have everyone arrived to the world naked and we leaves it naked,,,,
WHY not live our lives NAKED?
Roger Larsson
OldRookie
<info...@gmail.com> wrote:
>This was very sad news. I was impressed by Dave's knowledge of
>science, computer programming, the law, music, Scientology... well,
>everything! He was an amazing polymath.
That's so true. It would have been so easy to dismiss the guy as the
loud-mouth buffoon that the OSA guys tried to do at the time (Dave's
Time, that is) but if you bothered to read some of his argumentation,
it was *really* impressive.
>
>Dave could be stubborn and belligerent: some of us got into very
>heated debates with him, but it was that spirit that made him an
>effective campaigner for civil liberties of many kinds, and against
>miscarriages of justice.
I will never forget some of his classic clashes with
Bernie/Barmie/Purple something. Just great stuff, totally cracked me
up many a time.
>A terrible loss of a unique person.
Amen to that.
RolandRB
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi There!
>
> from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/images/EGrinstead9903/Dave...http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/
>
> justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
> as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
> legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
> history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
>
> http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/wood3.htmhttp://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/sp861.htm
>
> props, some of which worked, some of which didn't and the largest one of
> which was Carrie the Giant Clamshell.
>
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/muslinger/poole980314_a.ht...
>
> designing props (the balloons were always a favourite of mine) and writing
> songs. He was a firm believer in the will of good people to show up at a
> demo that someone else had to do the hard work organising and he was happy
> to put in the work. He did ask a lot, but he gave more.
>
> The criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology didn't
> like him one little bit, as evinced by the multi-page entry on their hate
> site RFW
>
> www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/david-bird/
>
> the largest worldwide protest against the criminal organisation known as
> the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> I'll miss him
>
> Best Regards
>
> Jens
>
> - --
> Key ID 0x09723C12, jenst...@tingleff.org
> Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985
> "..the London Underground is *not* a political movement" 'A Fish Called
> Wanda'
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I was very sorry to hear this news. I'll remember him best for his
rendition of "There was a man called Hubbard who was nutty as can
be...".
John Dorsay
> ---,----'--(@
>
>
> ....Perhaps a rose for each time Koos tramples on your memory, Dave,
> will make up for it...
What a lovely thought.
Thank you.
Friendly Xenu
>Hi There!
>Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
>from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
Ah hell.
---
"Every time Tory waves to OSA, David Miscaviage gets shorter."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865,00.html?imw=Y
barb
Because it is cold and we have no fur.
barb
da do Ron Ron Ron
da do Ron Ron...
Good times...fond memories.
John Ritson
Hash: SHA1
In message <sH%sj.1343$f8....@newsfe23.lga>, barb
<xenu...@netscape.net> writes
And there was his "Xenu loves me - this I know - high above the
volcano".
- --
John Ritson *** "Sympathy is a two-edged sword. It is a weapon used by the
overtly vicious to kill. And it is used also by individuals upon the almost
dead to get them up enough so they'll live. It depends where a preclear is
whether you really can give him any sympathy at all or not.
But I have never found sympathy to pay off." - L Ron Hubbard 'Methods of
Research - The Thetan as an Energy Unit' ***
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Sue M.
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Hi There!
>
>Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
>from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
>http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/images/EGrinstead9903/DaveB1_l.jpg
>http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/
>
>Dave had been active in the NCCL and in the fight against miscarriages of
>justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
>as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
>While Dave was a great debater - and a lot of fun - on a.r.s. he also had
>many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
>legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
>history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
>
>http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/wood3.htm
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/sp861.htm
>
>Dave brought a welcome street theatre side to our pickets, including many
>props, some of which worked, some of which didn't and the largest one of
>which was Carrie the Giant Clamshell.
>
>http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/muslinger/poole980314_a.html#mar28th
>
>Dave worked hard at his activism, organising, doing practical things,
>designing props (the balloons were always a favourite of mine) and writing
>songs. He was a firm believer in the will of good people to show up at a
>demo that someone else had to do the hard work organising and he was happy
>to put in the work. He did ask a lot, but he gave more.
>
>The criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology didn't
>like him one little bit, as evinced by the multi-page entry on their hate
>site RFW
>
>www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/david-bird/
>
>Dave would have gotten a kick out of the day he passed away being the day of
>the largest worldwide protest against the criminal organisation known as
>the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
>I'll miss him
>
>Best Regards
>
> Jens
I'm very sorry to hear the bad news! I remember when I first started
lurking on ARS, I always enjoyed reading his posts! I did get to meet
him once, way back in March 1999 (man, I can't believe so much time
has passed!) when I went on vacation in London and met with him and
some of the other UK critics to celebrate LRH's birthday by picketing
St. Hill, and I had a great time! Pretty awesome that Co$'s Mecca was
invaded by Duke the Dog and the boom box blasting Hubbard's nutty
quotes! And I know other people have already mentioned his help with
the Bonnie Woods libel case; he did have an impact on the fight
against this UFO cult, and he'll definitely be missed!
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
John Ritson wrote:
> In message <sH%sj.1343$f8....@newsfe23.lga>, barb
> <xenu...@netscape.net> writes
>>RolandRB wrote:
[............]
>>> I was very sorry to hear this news. I'll remember him best for his
>>> rendition of "There was a man called Hubbard who was nutty as can
>>> be...".
>>
>>da do Ron Ron Ron
>>da do Ron Ron...
>>
>>Good times...fond memories.
>>
> And there was his "Xenu loves me - this I know - high above the
> volcano".
"Do the Xenu raap!
the Xenu rap!
All the little clams go snappity snappity snap!"
Best Regards
Jens
- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985
"Dear hood... What brings you to this neck of the woods?" 'The Soft Wolf'
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Roger Larsson
> On 13 Feb, 09:08, Jens Tingleff <jenst...@tingleff.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
>
> > Hi There!
>
> > Dave Bird died the morning of Sunday Feb 10th from complications arising
> > from diabetes. He had been in hospital for six days.
>
> >http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/images/EGrinstead9903/Dave...
>
> > justice before he came to activism against the criminal organisation known
> > as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> > While Dave was a great debater - and a lot of fun - on a.r.s. he also had
> > many effective moments in Real Life, notably initiating getting proper
> > legal representation for Bonnie and Richard Woods (and the rest is
> > history - I don't think the clams have sued anyone in the UK since then).
>
A correction.
We arrives to the world naked and we leaves it naked - WHY waste time
on getting dressed?
Roger Larsson