Scientology Webring
Tilman Hausherr
In <jHKN0Mdl...@islandnet.com>, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin
Hunt) wrote:
>The Scientology Webring now has 36 pages on it, linking into a
>http://www.teleport.com/~kewyatt/cos/
>GOON's-RooM:
>The anti-cult cult
I'd wish you would kick this troll off the ring. I would even prefer to
have an OSA page than the one of Keith "ad-hoc opinion" Wyatt.
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
NEW: Find broken links on your web site with "Xenu's Link Sleuth":
http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Martin Hunt
In article <3437bec4...@news.snafu.de>,
til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>In <jHKN0Mdl...@islandnet.com>, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin
>Hunt) wrote:
>
>>The Scientology Webring now has 36 pages on it, linking into a
>
>>http://www.teleport.com/~kewyatt/cos/
>>GOON's-RooM:
>>The anti-cult cult
>
>I'd wish you would kick this troll off the ring. I would even prefer to
>have an OSA page than the one of Keith "ad-hoc opinion" Wyatt.
>
>Tilman
Hmm; well, have you read his page? It's well-written and even weblinted.
The content is good and mainly critical (but with pro links as well).
It contains, *on-site* (not as mere links):
* Stephen A. kent's Views about Scientology
The Pilot- (Could be ex-CoS member David Mayo) Commentary on CoS
The Pilot comments some more
The Pilot comments some more
Who owns the NOTS?
A Editors experince with CoS
FLASH: VIOLENCE AT LONDON PICKET!
CoS dresses up as Nazi's in protest
Alt.Religion.Scientology-Week in Review archive
Information Warfare Article
Ford Greene OMNI interview
George Magazine report on Germany VS Scientology
Shelley Thomson's Biased Journalism archive
Cult Awareness Network Litigation
* American Lawyer article on CAN June 1997
* Illinois Supreme Court Overturns Lower court ruling on
malicious prosecution by CoS
* Cult Awareness Network-Closed down by CoS
* " Cult Awareness Network Appeal "
Gary Scarff has denied the allegations he
made against the Church of Scientology in
a TV Interview and this declartion.
Read Scarff's Denial
* Declaration of Scarff - Part I on CAN
* Declaration of Scarff - Part 2 on CAN
* Cynthia Kisser on ABC Nightline
* NYT on COS, the IRS, and CAN.
* CNN Report on CAN
* TRANSCRIPT: WYNC Fri Mar 28 1997
* CAN CIA Commentary
* Evidence: CAN Supported Ted Patrick's Work
* Anti-cult groups feed media sensationalism.
* Origins of Anti-Cult Groups: Ted Patrick
* AFF/CAN: Promoting and referring deprogrammers
* AFF/CAN Deprogramming Policy.
* AFF Strategy Letter
* Results of Cynthia Kisser VS CoS
* The Road to Heaven's Gate
Lerma Litigation
Lerma Resigns From FACTnet, INC
Armstrong Sentenced In Ward Case
ARD CoS Video Commentary
French MD's on "Cults"
Kobrin Letter on Copyright Violation- May 28,1997
Robert V. Young-CoS Expert witness for defendants.
National Law Review Article on Copyright and CoS.
Ward on RTC motion- new pre-trial and trial dates for Grady
Ward
Grady on DA Attack
Rob Clark's Apology
To Scientologist for his post encouraging terrorist acts
against Scientologist.
FTP Directory of of this web site
* Cult Concerns FAQ (Martin Poulter)
* The Observer Life Magazine A-Z Cults
* Life Mail on cults
* AFF Home Page: Information About Cults and Psychological
Manipulation
* .ex-cult Archive (link)
* Religion in Germany (GERMAN)
FREE ZONE
* International Viewpoint Magazine (link)
I don't have a problem with this page being on the webring, and
your merely calling Keith a "troll" is not sufficient for me to
unilaterally remove his page, which is better written than most
critical pages.
I'd prefer to have a wide range of opinion on the webring, as
a counter to one-sidedness and exclusion, which leads down the
entirely wrong path, IMO. Keith's page is *entirely* on-topic,
and contains much good material well laid-out and easy to access.
On what basis should it be removed?
Nevertheless, if a *majority* of people on the webring agree that
his page should be removed, I'd consider it; that means raising
19 votes against his page from current webring members.
If, also, you threatened me with removing your pages, I might
have to weigh which page is more valuable to the ring, Keith's
or yours, and yours would undoubtedly win that one, being one
of the largest and best critical pages on the net. I hope, however,
you don't place me in that position...you've already placed me in
the uncomfortable position by requesting that I censor someone's
page, when it was made explicit at the webring's creation that
all *on-topic* pages, pro, con, neutral, would be accepted without
judgment. Frankly, I'm surprised at your request; perhaps you could
review his page carefully and re-evaluate your decision that this
page should be removed from the webring or at least give me some
better reason than your opinion that the page author is a "troll"
(which, btw, I neither agree nor disagree with; I do know that
Keith has direct experience with Scientology, so that tends to
preclude the troll theory.)
sincerely,
martin. [posted/mailed]
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Use "Xenu" in Subject: line of email.
Martin Hunt
The Scientology Webring now has 36 pages on it, linking into a
more traffic for ring members. The webring page with complete
instructions (and if these don't make sense, drop me an email
and I'll help you with getting on) on how to place your page
onto the right is at:
http://www.islandnet.com/~martinh/webring.htm
Please note: if you already have one page on the ring, don't
submit other pages, just link to them from your main page.
Scott has created a nice graphic for those who want more than
a plain-vanilla text link to the webring. See it on his page
or David Gerard's page below.
Sites 1 - 36: (in no particular order)
http://members.aol.com/kwantem/sppack/index.html
The Suppressive Persons Pack:
A growing collection of materials every suppressive person
needs to spread the truth about scientology. Includes the
must-have Anti-OT device!
http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html#webring
XEMU's $cientology page:
DAVE BIRD (XEMU)'s site includes a simple FAQ, lexicon, list
of 100 critical sites, and all about drowning the judge's dog.
I have a collection of Scn SONGS, and parodies by Troutman.
Other material is on censorship, civil liberties, and ascii-art.
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/scn/
(David Gerard) Australian Critics of Scientology Resource Page:
Scientology in AustraliaPress articles, radio transcripts,
picket reports (including leaflets and how-to), personal
stories, critical books, legal and Government opinions,
Scientology humour and lots more4.5 MB total.
http://www.lermanet.com
Truth about the cult called $cientology:
Raided by the cult of Scientology in August 1995, the
quest for truth continues.....
http://www.sky.net/~sloth/sci/ref5.html
Response to 'What Misconceptions Are There About Scientology':
This page is in answer to a page located on Scientology's
official web site. Several claims by Scientology are refuted
with many links to evidence to back up the refutations.
http://www.igs.net/~michaelv
Michael Voytinsky's WWW Page:
A collection of Scientology links, OT3 extracts, Scientology
Reformer's Page (kooky but harmless), account of a visit to
an Ottawa org, some writing by the web's author unrelated to
Scn, a couple of book reviews.
http://huizen.dds.nl/~hubbard/holland/dutch.htm
Scientology en Dianetics in de Belgische en Nederlandse media:
Dutch language page about Scientology.
http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~rgonnet
le secticidel'anti-scientologue:
A complete book on the subject in French plus 300,000 words
of translations or texts in French. Articles de journaux,
tmoignages en justice, autres textes etc. Site en Franais
Lisa Mc Pherson. Trs frquentes remises jour.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~johanw/scientol.html
The Scientology sect vs. Internet:
Short description about the battle between Scientology and
the Internet community. Contains the OT levels via the
Fishman Affidavit and methods to obtain the NOTs.
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/
Not the Scientology Home Page:
My own small contribution to the cause of harassing and
annoying the criminal cult of $cientology, concentrating
on the spam attack on alt.religion.scientology, and the
mostly bogus web awards given to the $cientology Home Page.
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282
Just the FAQs:
Scientology FAQs, booklist, etc.
http://www.skylink.net/~teddy/
Inside the cult of Scientology:
Information on pickets against Scientology.
http://www.magna.com.au/~zed/remailer.html
Xenu Remailer:
This site provides instructions on how to use the Xenu
Anonymous remailer. The Xenu remailer is intended to guarantee
the right to anonymous communication in alt.religion.scientology
http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/dianetics.html
Factnet International:
Largest searchable database on Scientology; over 600 megs.
Extensive cross-linking to all other internet sites on
Scientology. Master page organized by simple subject areas
regarding Scientology's history, beliefs, and actions. Was
the first BBS on Scientology before it became a web page. Has
had 150,000 hits from January 1, 1997 to August 15, 1997
http://www.ccnet.com/~pbxtalk/clam_pg.html
The Clam Bucket:
A short dissertation with supporting links about Scientology and
the Internet.
http://www.innernet.net/joecisar/conmenu.htm
Controversiology: The Study of Scientology:
If volcanoes and people who think differently make you feel
uncomfortable then Controversiology may not be for you Xenu.
A short study of Scientology in terms of commercialism and
criminal-mindedness.
http://www.chez.com/sectinfo/darkside.htm
Le monde obscur de la Scientologie (The dark side of the Scientology):
Serveur franais d'information et de mise en garde contre l'une
des sectes les plus dangereuses : historique, tmoignages
difiants, bibliographie, articles de presse, techniques de
manipulation, dmls judiciaires, et humour.
http://www.inka.de/~gromit/clambake/index.html
Scientology-Information auf deutsch:
One of the few German sites for beginners; there's also some
advanced material here. Contains the only German page about
Lisa McPherson (at least, the only one I am aware of).
http://juergen.com
Jrgens Hausseite:
Links to other "experts" and my story plus some franzi pics
http://www.access.ch/pwidmer/SCI/SCIstart.html
Pewi's Homepage: Scientology:
Information about Scientology in the German language. Texte
von Hubbard, Aufklaerung ueber Dianetics und Scientology,
Berichte von Betroffenen, Pressemitteilungen, Strafverfahren
und Gerichtsurteile.
http://huizen.dds.nl/~rr/scilink.htm
$cientology critical links and satire:
Critical links and some satirical articles about scientology
and its secret teachings.
http://come.to/the.knight.of.xemu
HomePage of The Knight Of Xemu:
These pages are dedicated to the greatest Science-fiction
writer of all times: L. Ron Hubbard Especially his most famous
work will be looked at on these pages: Scientology Meet the
character, who inspired me to all of this: Xemu, Lord of the
Galactic Confederation
http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
The cult of greed and power: Scientology and Dianetics:
Scientology is a form of pseudo-science invented by the mediocre
late science-fiction writer Lafayette Ron Hubbard. Scientology
claims to make people more able to communicate, but after taking
their courses you'll find out that it will only help you to
communicate inside Scientology.
http://www.teleport.com/~kewyatt/cos/
GOON's-RooM:
The anti-cult cult
http://www.oakharbor.net/skyhawk/cos/
Criminal Cult of Scientology:
Archive of Media files in real audio format, video captures,
picket pictures, and books on Scientology
http://www.imaginet.fr/~jensting/muslinger/index.html
I mock up my reactive mind:
Complete text of verdict in trial of Jean-Jacques Mazier
in Lyon. Photos from protests in the UK. Hubbard biography
(side by side with $cientology version). My motivation.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/mpoulter/scum.html
Scientology Criticism UK:
Opponents of Scientology describe it as a totalitarian cult.
This page supports that claim with internal documents, first-hand
accounts and many other files. There are sections on human rights
abuses in the regime, Scientology beliefs and practices, and court
rulings on the cult from around the world. There is a section for
UK-specific information, including press articles.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xenu/xenu/corrupt.html
Scientology: corrupt, sinister, and dangerous:
Scientology: corrupt, sinister, and dangerous. An explanation of
the Cult of Scientology and their belief in a science-fiction hero.
Present-day _1984_.
http://www2.kcii.com/users/dallara/
Operation Sea Otter: Cracking the Clam:
Funnelling online information about $cientology to the Great
Unplugged Masses of Tampa Bay. Spread the word and crack the clam!
http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm
Scientology: CRITICAL SCIENTOLOGY STUFF:
Critical Scientology Site.
http://huizen.dds.nl/~goofsel/Co$/
The Co$ page (yeah, nothing original):
Just another suppressive page, nothing fancy.
http://www.servtech.com/public/cra/clams.html
What They Don't Want You To Know About The Church of Scientology:
Why the Church of Scientology is as dangerous as La Cosa Nostra
in their heyday.
http://www.entheta.net/
Scientology -- Cult of Greed and Power [Entheta.net]:
Ex-Scientologist and Media archive, with the potential to
become much more.
http://w4u.eexi.gr/~antbos/SCIENTOL.HTM
Greece uncovers Scientology:
The site describes the 1995 events in Greece that led to the
closure of the Scientology center in Greece (KEFE). It contains
documents that were seized by Prosecutor Angellis' raids, the
communications terminology of Scientology and other publicly
available material which uncovers the cult.
http://www.arscc.com
(Scott) The ARSCC Home Page:
The ARSCC does not exist. Neither does this site. Visit it anyway.
http://pharos.uwc.edu/~dcleek/cos/world2.html
Mapping Scientology:
Mapping Scientology is a geographical approach to gathering and
presenting information on the cult. Civil and criminal court
cases, pickets, suspicious deaths, suicides, org locations -- all
organized by country and state.
ttyl,
martin.
David Gerard
On 3 Oct 1997 00:56:37 -0700,
Martin Hunt <mar...@islandnet.com> wrote:
:The Scientology Webring now has 36 pages on it, linking into a
:http://www.islandnet.com/~martinh/webring.htm
:Scott has created a nice graphic for those who want more than
:a plain-vanilla text link to the webring. See it on his page
:or David Gerard's page below.
Scott's version is just the words and buttons; mine (which is
derived from his) includes a picture of an exploding volcano.
You can cut and paste the HTML for the image-map, change the
id= numbers and it'll work fine.
Mine is at http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/scn/lurid.gif
Scott's is at http://www.arscc.com/images/webring.gif
--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/scn/ http://www.suburbia.net/~fun/scn/
I hereby encourage all earthlink.net users to leave for a provider whose
email and Usenet messages are not boycotted by the rest of the net, and
for ISPs to continue to block earthlink.net email and Usenet messages from
Earthlink, until earthlink.net *stop* the flow of junk email and spam.
Tilman Hausherr
In <5oTN0Mdl...@islandnet.com>, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin
Hunt) wrote:
>>I'd wish you would kick this troll off the ring. I would even prefer to
>>have an OSA page than the one of Keith "ad-hoc opinion" Wyatt.
>>
>>Tilman
>
>Hmm; well, have you read his page? It's well-written and even weblinted.
Not in the last few months. His page is just a part of his effort to "be
a part of the team", to enhance the possibility of getting follow-ups to
usenet posts. He simply grabs up stuff from here and webs it. All he has
is also somewhere else. When I read him, I noticed that he truly doesn't
care a bit about scientology. He wants discussion for the purpose of
having a discussion. He posted threads with contents like "scientology
is a religion!", "RTC is right!", "Scientology is wrong!", "FACTNet is
wrong!", "I dance on CAN's grave!", "PGP is important", "Scientology is
wrong, sorry, but I was an alcoholic", "Germans are racist!" or
whatever, to generate follow-ups.
>I don't have a problem with this page being on the webring, and
>your merely calling Keith a "troll" is not sufficient for me to
>unilaterally remove his page, which is better written than most
>critical pages.
Yes it is impossible to prove that he is actually a troll - maybe it is
a part of a discussion that some people who would be ignored in real
life participate just to have the feeling that someone cares what they
say. That's why he changes his usenet address. I have now 8 different
killfile entry for him.
>On what basis should it be removed?
That he is a troll - his page could make a 180 degree turn next week. He
does not have an opinion about scientology. Sometimes he's pro,
sometimes he's against - his opinion depends of the opinion of others.
What happens to people who accidentally find his page in a search
engine? Depending on what opinion he currently "runs", they might get a
completely different response to calls for help
>Nevertheless, if a *majority* of people on the webring agree that
>his page should be removed, I'd consider it; that means raising
>19 votes against his page from current webring members.
Well, all should send e-mail to Martin with "Xenu" in the subject line.
>If, also, you threatened me with removing your pages, I might
>have to weigh which page is more valuable to the ring, Keith's
I don't blackmail.
>or yours, and yours would undoubtedly win that one, being one
>of the largest and best critical pages on the net. I hope, however,
>you don't place me in that position...you've already placed me in
>the uncomfortable position by requesting that I censor someone's
>page, when it was made explicit at the webring's creation that
>all *on-topic* pages, pro, con, neutral, would be accepted without
It would not be censorship. He would just not be in the pool. I wouldn't
mind having a scientology page in the index. Just not one of a
rubberneck.
>judgment. Frankly, I'm surprised at your request; perhaps you could
>review his page carefully and re-evaluate your decision that this
>page should be removed from the webring or at least give me some
>better reason than your opinion that the page author is a "troll"
>(which, btw, I neither agree nor disagree with; I do know that
>Keith has direct experience with Scientology, so that tends to
>preclude the troll theory.)
Well that's a new one. All I remember was that he once claimed that in
his initial months here, he got calls from scientologists thanking him.
Frank Copeland
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Tilman Hausherr <til...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
>>http://www.teleport.com/~kewyatt/cos/
>>GOON's-RooM:
>>The anti-cult cult
>
>I'd wish you would kick this troll off the ring. I would even prefer to
>have an OSA page than the one of Keith "ad-hoc opinion" Wyatt.
Nonono. Leave fun_bunny there. All the other pages on the ring (including
mine) are such earnest, dull and serious efforts. We need fun_bunny there to
lighten things up.
Anyway, someone at the Salem Public Library probably wrote it all, it wasn't
fun_bunny at all.
- --
Home Page: <URL:http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/>
Not the Scientology Home Page: <URL:http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/>
Keep it in Usenet. E-mail replies and 'courtesy' copies are not welcome.
If you're selling, I ain't buying.
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Jens Tingleff
In article <344d2173...@news.snafu.de>, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
Hausherr) wrote:
> In <5oTN0Mdl...@islandnet.com>, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin
> Hunt) wrote:
[..]
>
> >Nevertheless, if a *majority* of people on the webring agree that
> >his page should be removed, I'd consider it; that means raising
> >19 votes against his page from current webring members.
>
> Well, all should send e-mail to Martin with "Xenu" in the subject line.
>
FWIW, I say we keep his pages in. I can see what Tilman is saying, but I
just don't care enough about it to want to remove him.
If Keith never ads any original material, then the only "danger" is if
people should mail him for advice. That could already happen, seeing how
much he posts on a.r.s. So, the only thing which would be achieved through
removing him from the Web-ring is a form of censorship. IMHO, of course...
[Yes, I would prefer an all-out pro-$cientology page...]
Jens
[p/m to Martin]
------ No PGP signature, no authenticity. Vive La France!! ---------
http://www.imaginet.fr/~jensting/. Scientology[tm]?? Check it out at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/mpoulter/scum.html *and*
http://www.scientology.org/. Report to alt.religion.scientology ;-)
*********
And for you automated email spammers out there,
here's the email addresses of the current board of
the Federal Communications Commission:
Chairman Reed Hundt: rhu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner James Quello: jqu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Susan Ness: sn...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Rachelle Chong: rch...@fcc.gov
And let's help you send some spam to the US Postal Service, too:
GB
On 4 Oct 1997 13:23:12 -0700, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt),
<EYpN0Mdl...@islandnet.com> wrote :
>In article <344d2173...@news.snafu.de>,
>til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>
>>Not in the last few months. His page is just a part of his effort to "be
>>a part of the team", to enhance the possibility of getting follow-ups to
>>usenet posts. He simply grabs up stuff from here and webs it. All he has
>>is also somewhere else. When I read him, I noticed that he truly doesn't
>>care a bit about scientology. He wants discussion for the purpose of
>>having a discussion. He posted threads with contents like "scientology
>>is a religion!", "RTC is right!", "Scientology is wrong!", "FACTNet is
>>wrong!", "I dance on CAN's grave!", "PGP is important", "Scientology is
>>wrong, sorry, but I was an alcoholic", "Germans are racist!" or
>>whatever, to generate follow-ups.
>
>I agree; he's a self-obsessed attention-craver. But then, so are
>many people - albeit not to such an extent. Still, his posts aren't
>his webpage - these are different things.
>
>>Yes it is impossible to prove that he is actually a troll - maybe it is
>>a part of a discussion that some people who would be ignored in real
>>life participate just to have the feeling that someone cares what they
>>say. That's why he changes his usenet address. I have now 8 different
>>killfile entry for him.
>
>Yes, I'm up to 4 myself:
>
>-600 From: teleport
>-600 From: gun_bunny
>-600 From: Gunbunny
>-600 From: Wyatt
>
>I wish he'd stick to one address for killfiling; it's annoying to
>have to re-add his new addresses every so often.
>
>I still say he isn't a troll, by definition, as he has actually
>gone into Scientology and had some services from them. Trolls are
>purely self-aggrandizing satirical rants based on no more than a
>pretence...he's talked to cult members and been swayed by them,
>influenced by them, which makes it more than a troll.
>
>>That he is a troll - his page could make a 180 degree turn next week. He
>>does not have an opinion about scientology. Sometimes he's pro,
>>sometimes he's against - his opinion depends of the opinion of others.
>
>He blows in the breeze, I agree. Still, that's not sufficient reason
>to censor his page. As his page stands right now, I'd have no problem
>recommending people go to it and read what's there. Information is
>not so dangerous, even if of dubious quality (I recommend people go
>to and read Scientology's own pages, and, recall, two invitations were
>sent to the Scientology webmaster for them to join the ring). No,
>Keith's as close to an official Scientology page as we're going to
>get. Apart from a goofy title, it's mostly critical material anyway.
>
>>What happens to people who accidentally find his page in a search
>>engine? Depending on what opinion he currently "runs", they might get a
>>completely different response to calls for help
>
>A risk I'm willing to take. What other option is there, really? Is
>our cause so weak and our arguments so effete that we must stoop
>to censorship of our few and meagre critics? Surely, if we are
>right, and reason is on our side, we can withstand some criticism.
>Scientology has a problem with criticism; I don't. I welcome it and
>encourage it. All I could ask is that it was stronger and better
>reasoned (and hopefully well-motivated).
>
>>>Nevertheless, if a *majority* of people on the webring agree that
>>>his page should be removed, I'd consider it; that means raising
>>>19 votes against his page from current webring members.
>>
>>Well, all should send e-mail to Martin with "Xenu" in the subject line.
>
>So far, one vote: for.
>
>>I don't blackmail.
>
>I'm glad; I wish I could say the same for all critics, but blackmail
>has been used to persuade me to change my opinions in the past as a
>last resort in the face of someone in full posession of themselves. :-)
>
>>It would not be censorship. He would just not be in the pool. I wouldn't
>>mind having a scientology page in the index. Just not one of a
>>rubberneck.
>
>Fair enough; I'll take the vote so far as: for: 1 against: 1. And it
>is a form of censorship; his page gets increased hits by being on the
>ring, and removing it cuts down on traffic. It's like pulling a story
>and claiming it's not censorship because the writer can go and get
>published elsewhere, maybe. It's the principle of the thing.
>
>>Well that's a new one. All I remember was that he once claimed that in
>>his initial months here, he got calls from scientologists thanking him.
>
>I'm aware this is not common knowledge, but I tend to believe my
>unnamed source for this information; Keith has indeed been to visit
>the clams, who tried to recruit him and who have influenced him. He
>does, as they say, blow in the breeze; I'm not defending him or his
>page as much as a principle. If 100 whackos with 100 weird pages
>that make an effort to discredit the rationality of the critical
>movement try to jump on the ring, that may be another matter, but
>removing one based on little more than personal bias against him (and,
>to be clear, I detest Keith, all his posts, and all he stands for),
>would be less than democratic.
>
>ttyl,
>martin. [posted only]
Well Martin and Tilman I would say that your loop sided
viewpoint has clouded your thought process once again.
I remember well when Martin dropped everything about
Scientology and swore he was through with ARS. Yet he
returned. I also have read other post of his that shocked
me.
As far as who belongs on ARS, I would like to know what
Tilman's big beef with Scientology is? Also Tilman has
endorsed absurd actions against Scientology and Scientologist.
What I stand for is simply, the right of the individual
to practice their beliefs. I can honestly say that is the
real issue here for me.
To be honest I have been wishy washy on some of the issues
regarding Scientology and it's critics. I think that is because
I have mixed feelings about all of it. I don't agree with the
mocking of Scientology beliefs or the copyright infringement.
Neither do I endorse the lawsuits or some of the tactics used
by Scientology. I try to understand the issues involved from
the point of view of each side.
From where I sit I see a lot of double standards, so it is hard
for me to be one-sided about all the issues.
Keith
Gunbunny
On 4 Oct 1997 01:00:14 +1000, f...@thingy.apana.org.au (Frank Copeland),
<slrn63a23...@thingy.apana.org.au> wrote :
>Anyway, someone at the Salem Public Library probably wrote it all, it wasn't
>fun_bunny at all.
Dear Mr. Copeland,
I fully reject your allegation that I posted an article threatening myself
from the Salem Library. I do not know who wrote that or why. If you have any
information you would care to forward to me that Identifies who did this
then please do. As I said before, Open.org is open to anyone that walks in
the library. The article was posted at 12:01 pm at that day and I was at
work at that time.
Thank You,
Keith
Frank Copeland
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
OK then, I'll take your word for it. I have no proof that it was you that
posted the threatening article. The fact that it was done from a public
terminal you use all the time means nothing; anyone in Salem could have done
it. It was posted through lightlink like your other articles; mere
coincidence. Hey, you could have been using the terminal earlier and forgot
to reset it, and someone came along later and used your settings. Yeah,
that's it.
Only a complete bigot (and just about everyone posting here is one, isn't
that right Keith?) would find anything suspicious in the fact that you
change From: headers more often than your underwear. I mean, there's no way
anyone can *prove* that the gun_...@OSI.ORG and the gun_...@dust.wrd.org
and the gun_...@dust.ward.com and the gun_...@get.ward.org and the
gun_...@henson.org who all posted from the public terminals in Salem
Library are the same person as the gun_...@hotmail.com and the
kew...@teleport.com (and the other half-dozen ID's you use to keep out of
Tilman's killfile) who post from the same public terminals.
It would take a completely rabid anti-cult cultist to suspect you of posting
$cientology propaganda anonymously, just because you stuffed up trying send
a couple of them through mail...@nym.alias.net. Who hasn't done that?
No, I've seen the light. I should never have called you a lame timewasting
troll. I can only guess how hurtful that must have been to you. I humbly
apologise for ever doubting you, and I'm sure there are plenty of others
who are prepared to do the same.
Frank "Billy Goat" Copeland
- --
Home Page: <URL:http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/>
Not the Scientology Home Page: <URL:http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/>
Keep it in Usenet. E-mail replies and 'courtesy' copies are not welcome.
If you're selling, I ain't buying.
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Tilman Hausherr
In <M6+N0Mdl...@islandnet.com>, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin
Hunt) wrote:
>Let me get this straight; we hold different opinions about Keith's
>webpage, yet *both* of us are wrong?
Yes but I noticed that we hold the same opinion about Keith himself ("He
blows in the breeze")... you expressed this much better than me :-)
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site with "Xenu's Link Sleuth":
http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Ralph Hilton
On Sat, 04 Oct 1997 06:54:28 GMT, Gun-...@hotmail.com (Gunbunny)
wrote:
>Some people here on ARS are religious bigots.
Some, not very many.
>One of the things we must
>learn as a world is to TOLERATE other belief systems.
Worlds don't learn. People do. You are using over generalizations.
Some belief systems deserve tolerance. Others don't.
Religious beliefs that don't infringe upon the rights of others
deserve respect and tolerance. Those that manipulate people into
degraded situations should be controlled to the extent necessary to
stop these unethical practices.
>However, if any person
>violates man's law then let them be handed over to the court to be judged.
>People should be allowed to practice their belief without harassment or
>intimidation.
If they practice their beliefs in affiliation to an organization that
acts unethically then they inevitably place that right in jeapardy.
>It is time that the world start working on religious bigotry
>as we have on racial bigotry. We still have a long ways to go in both areas,
>but I have faith that some day religious conflict will be swept away.
Many "religious" conflicts are not religious. Many "racial" conflicts
are not racial.
>Believe it or not, you are what you think!
>
I don't believe it. It seems a silly idea to me.
--
Ralph
email: ta.tenta@hplar
(reversed to foil the latest spam bots)
(Rückwärts lesen, um die neuesten Spam-Bots auszuschalten)
"You won't always be here. But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons -
The work was free - keep it so" LRH 1957
Keith Henson
Gunbunny (Gun-...@hotmail.com) wrote:
snip
: There would be very little litigation if people had not violated the
: copyright law.
I don't believe to this day that I violated copyright law. NOTs 34, The
Sequence for Handling a Physical Condition, is a criminal instruction
manual about "healing" physical problems through the use of emeters--a
claim CoS was enjoined from making years ago, and the practice itself has
been known to lead to people (Roxanne Friend for example) dying from lack
of proper medical treatment. I don't believe that such an interpretation
of the law will hold on appeal. If it does, Clinton has a great way to
prevent those tapes from being turned over to Congress. He should even be
able to get a judge to put him under injunction not to release them
because the tapes were copyright by the DNC. After all, *I* am under an
injunction which prevents me from giving evidence of outright criminal
activity I have to the FDA, a law enforcement agency.
History is being written into the law books around the world
: because of the litigation. That is why I find ARS so intriguing.
: I have to say that reading Dianetics and being open minded about other views
: in New Age religions has helped me immensely. Maybe, if you could look for
Yer a troll, plain and simple. But I appreciate your self appointed role.
The real scientologists we see here have been so damaged by whatever they
do that they can't carry an argument in a bucket.
: the good in Scientology you would be at peace with it. If you look at the
: bible their are many examples of hideous acts by "God's" people. To me that
: doesn't make the bible bad it just shows that people can do wrong things.
Good in Scientology . . . . hideous acts . . . . Great connections.
Bonus points from the ARSCC.
: Some people here on ARS are religious bigots. One of the things we must
: learn as a world is to TOLERATE other belief systems.
There are definite limits to tolerance. Tolerance is a metameme which
allows beliefs which have in the past killed each other's members to co-
exist. It took most of a thousand years for this to arise in Europe after
the main religion split, and as we can observe in Ireland, it has a ways
to go yet. However, the metameme has strong limits on it. Beliefs which
attempt "unfair" subversion of the legal or educational system generate a
lot of opposition. Scientology fits into that category and I don't expect
many people to be tolerant of the Nazi-like aspects of its beliefs no matter
how sincere scientologists are about them.
However, if any person
: violates man's law then let them be handed over to the court to be judged.
Yep, though if CoS spends enough money to break the budget in Clearwater
they will crow about being justified in the way they treated Lisa McPherson.
: People should be allowed to practice their belief without harassment or
: intimidation.
And now we come to the question of what to do with a belief which includes
"fair game", suing to harass, suppressing news by suing like CoS did to
Time, etc. Scientology is an ugly meme set, a reflection of its founder.
It is time that the world start working on religious bigotry
: as we have on racial bigotry. We still have a long ways to go in both areas,
: but I have faith that some day religious conflict will be swept away.
Right-O. And the next time a Thuggee comes to the door invite him in for
tea.
: Believe it or not, you are what you think!
I think you are polishing your writing skills.
Keith Henson