The RPF Insider Newsletter # 7
Magoo
The RPF Insider Newsletter # 7
Hello out there in the real world...
I have a friend who recently "blew" or in other words was smart enough to
figure out how to get out of this rat hole! Her name is Mariette Lindstein
and I knew her for years from Gold. She was a very high executive for many
years and was assigned to the RPF for some reason. I never knew why and she
wouldn't tell me here in the RPF. She did tell me however that she had
divorced her husband Billy Lindstein, and that he is now the CO CLO EUS, in
New York. They also have a son, and I believe that he is still at INT. He
must be around 18-20 years old. When Mariette arrived here, she must have
planned to blow from the first day she arrived. She brought very few
personal belongings, and all she left behind were a few small boxes, which
contained only clothes. (Most RPFers bring all their worldly possesions with
them, handling all that mest and storing it is another story I hope I can
tell you about sometime) She must have kept her ID cards and passport, I
think maybe she told them she lost them instead of turning them in. Wish I
would have thought of that! Both Billy and Mariette are from Sweden and
maybe she went back home? When she was uplines she told me that she was from
a city called Halmstad (correctly spelled)? and if she went to Sweden she
would probably be there, maybe with her parents? She was in the Sea Org for
over 20 years, had no family in the US and I doubt that she had any
non-scientology friends.
Mariette had several high posts and was in RTC. For a while she was the AVC
I/C Int, Authorization and Verification Correction In Charge International.
This post approves new programs and a lot of other things that are then
implemented down the command channels through CMO and Int Exec Strata. She
got busted and ended up at GOLD. Got busted again and got RPFed!
When she blew the RPF here in May/June this year, it was a "flap" of
magnitude. You can't believe the search team that is put together to find a
person that blows, especially one who has such high inside information. If
she has any way of speaking up she would probably be able to tell what DM's
favorite lunch is or what he has on his desk. Put it this way - she knows
"too much"!!! The night she took off, a search team of about 10 people from
the RPF itself (the trusted ones that are "moving on the program"), the RPF
I/C himself and a bunch of PAC security guards where searching the streets
of LA in vain! The RPFers where stationed at the Metro Union station around
the clock, in hopes of seeing and catching her. (And of course to guard each
other!) By the way, the RPF people sent out on these searches had little or
no money for food, and came back starving and deprived of sleep for 24 hours
or more! People went to LAX, to the beach and other local parks, anywhere
that someone might go to hide or to "destimulate" before coming back. Well,
ladies and gentlemen, I hereby happily announce to you that I think SHE MADE
IT AND GOT AWAY!! Of course she knew that she would be "SP declared"
automatically and obviously didn't give a shit! However I never saw an SP
Declare on her posted on the notice board which is kind of odd, but I am
sure there are alot of things we never find out about in the RPF. At this
point I don't give a shit if they declare me too, I just don't want to go
through months and years of com-evs, sec checks, "baby watch" and other BS.
I don't know how the other RPFers feel because we are not allowed to talk
about it, if you said a word to anyone they would have to report you, even
if they didn't, you'd both get busted on the next sec check! And I can see
that a lot of people are really taking this seriously and truly want to get
back on post. But for some reason nearly everyone is having trouble with the
"final assessment" that I mentioned earlier in Newsletter # 4, as most guys
do have disagreements, etc., with INT Management. The way it's shoved back
in our faces is "you missed withholds on your twin earlier or you have
out-tech on your twin - that's why you can't get a clean assessment!" Gee, I
wonder why that is???? (HAHA) Anyway, I sure hope Mariette is in good
health, happy and busy creating a new life. If this message would ever reach
her, let her know that I'm still her friend and look forward to the day when
I'll be able to catch up with her.
"The RPF Insider"
Rev. Desertphile de Rothschild
>The RPF Insider Newsletter # 7
>Hello out there in the real world...
Tory, what assurance have you received that you are not passing on
bulldung (lies) from someone who is pulling your chain? Why should the
human rights activists in a.r.s. accept these "Newsletters" as
genuine?
---
RE-ELECT PRESIDENT GORE IN 2004
http://lastliberal.org
Quaoar
I support the question. If it is possible for perhaps two people that
posts to ARS to vet the messages publicly, keeping confidence on any
identity, that would go a long way towards authenticating the material.
Chuck Beattey has already done so, and that's good, but not good enough
to satisfy everyone that this is genuine and not an op.
Q
Magoo
"Quaoar" <qua...@tenthplanet.net> wrote in message
news:GPidnX7UCKi...@comcast.com...
are you thinking this is? What would be the outcome?
The worst I can possibly see...on the critic side is some critics might call
the authorities, they'd check it out..........Scientology would have moved
it, and a few people would be wrong. Do you honestly think OSA would say all
of this...for that result? I do not.
We KNOW the RPF exists. We KNOW variations of this have been said by many
before this.
I respect your questions, and I respect their right to speak out. That's all
I'll say at this time.
My best,
Tory/Magoo~
>
>
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
Rothschild <deser...@cchr.ws> wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:37:16 -0700, "Magoo" <mag...@att.net> wrote:
>
>>The RPF Insider Newsletter # 7
>>Hello out there in the real world...
>
>Tory, what assurance have you received that you are not passing on
>bulldung (lies) from someone who is pulling your chain? Why should the
>human rights activists in a.r.s. accept these "Newsletters" as
>genuine?
You should not take anything you hear or read for granted, you
should always think for yourself and evaluate the context and
the claim. This newsletter is a prime example of information
provided with no absolutes or guarantees (for obvious reasons
IMO) and will for nnow have to be considered as an anonymous
testimony. The test of time will tell if it is fully, partly or
not at all true. Compare it with your knowledge, what others
have reported and to what degree you personally trust the people
who contribute.
Thanks to Tory and the person sending it to her so we have this
to add to our huge bank of information.
Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------
Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as
well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and
honor our egos can tolerate.
-------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----
Magoo
"Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <hel...@online.no> wrote in message
news:fri9m05d7b06cfec7...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:26:37 -0700, Rev. Desertphile de
> Rothschild <deser...@cchr.ws> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:37:16 -0700, "Magoo" <mag...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>The RPF Insider Newsletter # 7
>>>Hello out there in the real world...
>>
>>Tory, what assurance have you received that you are not passing on
>>bulldung (lies) from someone who is pulling your chain? Why should the
>>human rights activists in a.r.s. accept these "Newsletters" as
>>genuine?
>
> You should not take anything you hear or read for granted, you
> should always think for yourself and evaluate the context and
> the claim. This newsletter is a prime example of information
> provided with no absolutes or guarantees (for obvious reasons
> IMO) and will for nnow have to be considered as an anonymous
> testimony. The test of time will tell if it is fully, partly or
> not at all true. Compare it with your knowledge, what others
> have reported and to what degree you personally trust the people
> who contribute.
>
> Thanks to Tory and the person sending it to her so we have this
> to add to our huge bank of information.
Ahhhhhhhh Andreas! I thought of you when I read those questions. I could
hear you saying those very words to me, when I first left.
You've always been so cool that way: Find out for yourself. True, this takes
some reading..in more than one area...but he's right in what he says. Thank
you :)
Tory/Magoo~~~
Quaoar
Please don't take this as criticism - that's not my point at all. I am
suggesting that as happened with the Dorian material, it is possible
that these are figments of someone's over-active imagination based on a
few key facts, or they could indeed be genuine. The motivation for
publishing these could be simply to disclose the conditions in the RPF
or have some broader disinformation purposes. As an example of
disinformation, suppose someone takes the whole batch to the local
police, social services, or whatever, they investigate and find
absolutely nothing amiss. That would taint any similar material in the
future and quite possibly make anyone even remotely connected with
distributing this material a complete incredulous laughingstock.
Perhaps that is what these are meant to do as a method for the COS to
discredit ARS and you as well.
I know you are just the messenger, yet in order to protect yourself I
would think some ex-members that you trust might offer their opinions,
as did Chuck Beatty, of the authenticity based on the method that you
obtain the materials, conditions placed on the distribution, and what
they know of current COS practices. No identities or any of the methods
or conditions need be disclosed to ARS. The evaluation of your trusted
evaluators would suffice. Most of us don't have the contacts or the
knowledge to do this.
Q
Magoo
Ya...I figured it wasn't meant that way, thanks for clarifying that.
I am
> suggesting that as happened with the Dorian material, it is possible that
> these are figments of someone's over-active imagination based on a few key
> facts, or they could indeed be genuine. The motivation for publishing
> these could be simply to disclose the conditions in the RPF or have some
> broader disinformation purposes. As an example of disinformation, suppose
> someone takes the whole batch to the local police, social services, or
> whatever, they investigate and find absolutely nothing amiss.
Let's just say it's being worked on.
It isn't a Dorian thing....as more than one person are involved, and Chuck
is another who has already said it is true. More have E-mailed to me, who
don't want their names exposed that yes, it is most certainly true.
That would taint any similar material in the
> future and quite possibly make anyone even remotely connected with
> distributing this material a complete incredulous laughingstock.
Asking the authorities to go check up on a slave camp, and finding these con
artists have moved it would hardly make 'anyone even remotely connected
with distributing this material a complete incredulous laughingstock". Have
you never read ANY reports on the RPF? This is a VERY real thing, man. Get a
grip here. You'd have to do a LOT more to make ~any~ critics laughingstocks.
At this point, C of S are shuffling like mad. I suggest any who can to drive
by the complex in the evening and just watch. My guess is they'll be
shuffling them out of there soon. But yes, that IS a guess.
> Perhaps that is what these are meant to do as a method for the COS to
> discredit ARS and you as well.
Baw...OSA Has been trying to discredit ARS
(and me, as well as other critics) for YEARS...and failing miserably. They
are themselves laughingstock, per their very own neighbors and community
leaders.
>
> I know you are just the messenger, yet in order to protect yourself I
> would think some ex-members that you trust might offer their opinions, as
> did Chuck Beatty, of the authenticity based on the method that you obtain
> the materials, conditions placed on the distribution, and what they know
> of current COS practices. No identities or any of the methods or
> conditions need be disclosed to ARS. The evaluation of your trusted
> evaluators would suffice. Most of us don't have the contacts or the
> knowledge to do this.
>
> Q
Exactly. Most do not. Hopefully you will do as Andreas suggested: Study up,
read up, connect the dots, make up your own mind. It's a long road out...but
we're all on it.
This is a good thing, and it's only getting better.
Tory/Magoo~~
>
>
>
roger gonnet
"Magoo" <mag...@att.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
4164...@news2.lightlink.com...
I think that's indeed dangerous for them. Though it's an anonymous thing, we
can suppose that it's genuine.
We could have an (incertain, but good enough) method of checking. I'll give
it privately to Tory.
r
RolandRB
To me, it reads like Steven Fishman. I get the same mood from reading
these Insider newsletters as I get from reading Lonesome Squirrel.
This person can obviously write to some degree and to me the styles
seem similar. All you need to write something like this are a few
insider facts and the whole lot can be put together like the person is
actually there. From what I have heard of the RPF there is no way in
hell that a person would have the leisure time to write this stuff (it
is written well and not done under any pressure) and even less
opportunity to get it out.
barb
That was my thought, too. If the whole thing was an elaborate op, the
only outcome I can imagine would be calls to the Health Dept. and police.
Perhaps it *could* be a scenario similar to the boy who cried 'wolf.'
So the authorities wouldn't come if they were really needed.
What's different about these reports from most cult nonsense is the
specific names mentioned. The guy with MS goes to a local hospital
for treatment. That, at least, could be confirmed.
--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander
Deomorto
Lindstein and the info that is given about her in this posting is 100%
correct - well I have to say that I didn;t know she and Billy were
divorced so I cannot verify that part - but she does come from
Halmstad near Malmo and no doubt she would go back.
I hope some of the critics in Sweden (bid et alai) can get in touch
with her and help her through what is going to be an awfully traumatic
period for her.
Way to go Mariette!!
Deo
"Quaoar" <qua...@tenthplanet.net> wrote in message news:<GPidnX7UCKi...@comcast.com>...
Deomorto
>
> Please don't take this as criticism - that's not my point at all. I am
> suggesting that as happened with the Dorian material, it is possible
> that these are figments of someone's over-active imagination based on a
> few key facts, or they could indeed be genuine.
You could be right - but it really doesn't matter. For example I knew
a fair amount of the names on the original list so if the person
writing this really did have a few key facts then from the internal
consistency of the list they at least got it correct.
As Tory said - if it were something dreamed up by a wannabe Dorian -
well OK we would have had some "facts" thrown at us on ARS that turned
out to not be totally right - jeez like that would be a bulletin of
some kind!
All you can do with something like this is do what Tory has done -
post it and for the rest of us to peruse it and see how it stacks up
against what we already know.
I have done the RPF and though my experience seems nowhere near as bad
as what is being written here there is nothing that he/she has written
that is outside of what I have seen and nothing inconsistent with the
CofS increasing paranoia about "security".
In this report nothing that this person wrote is inconsistent with how
Mariette would act - it would not suprise me in the least to find that
she had planned her departure from the moment she was sent there.
There is one inconsistency, though, that struck me in the write up.
The person writing says that "you couldn't talk about this in the RPF
because it would come up in the next sec check" - yet this same person
who obviously still believes that sec checks work (duh!) is busy
sending out write ups like this which they would surely feel "guilty"
enough about to cough up in a sec check that they so obviously believe
will find them out. Of course it may be that this person has finally
come to the realization that sec checks are a bunch of crap...
Something, perhaps, to bear in mind.
iTal
news:<cJqdnVIyBu0...@comcast.com>...
>
>>
>> Please don't take this as criticism - that's not my point at all. I am
>> suggesting that as happened with the Dorian material, it is possible
>> that these are figments of someone's over-active imagination based on a
>> few key facts, or they could indeed be genuine.
On 7 Oct 2004 07:23:58 -0700, deom...@my-deja.com (Deomorto) wrote:
<snip>
>There is one inconsistency, though, that struck me in the write up.
>The person writing says that "you couldn't talk about this in the RPF
>because it would come up in the next sec check" - yet this same person
>who obviously still believes that sec checks work (duh!) is busy
>sending out write ups like this which they would surely feel "guilty"
>enough about to cough up in a sec check that they so obviously believe
>will find them out. Of course it may be that this person has finally
>come to the realization that sec checks are a bunch of crap...
>
>Something, perhaps, to bear in mind.
I noticed that also. She must know how to 'fake an F/N'. I sure did.
All you had to do was get your mind/head in a certain 'zone' - turn
off all think/think, mental chatter, and just 'be there' and the
needle would always float. It's just a mattter of applying TR0 and
'being there comfortably' for crying out loud ;-)
Monica Pignotti
> You are entitled to your opinion,,,,whatever that may be. What kind of "op"
> are you thinking this is? What would be the outcome?
I think it's pretty obvious: to discredit people who have actual
experiences on the RPF to tell about. If they generated a hoax and
people fell for it, as so many here appear to be doing, then that
destroys credibility for all of us.
> The worst I can possibly see...on the critic side is some critics might call
> the authorities, they'd check it out..........Scientology would have moved
> it, and a few people would be wrong. Do you honestly think OSA would say all
> of this...for that result? I do not.
Yes. It would not surprise me in the least. The other possibilty is
that this was generated by some ex-Scientologist who (still being in
the cult mind set) thinks its okay to tell stories and lie for a good
cause (like the Dorian thing). Or it could just be some sick person
who is trying to troll us. The least likely possibility, IMO, is that
someone is actually transmitting info from the RPF.
> We KNOW the RPF exists. We KNOW variations of this have been said by many
> before this.
Yes, but that is not evidence that these particular writings are true.
I find it extremely difficult to believe that an RPFer would be able
to get access to a computer and write all this stuff.
> I respect your questions, and I respect their right to speak out. That's all
> I'll say at this time.
I'd be very surprised to learn that this were true. If it isn't, the
consequences are that those of us who do have truths to tell lose
credibility. Think about it. A very major part of critical thinking
skills is the principle of burden of proof. When someone makes a
claim, the burden of proof is on the claimant and from what I see,
this person has fallen far short of providing good evidence that he is
who he says he is.
Monica
Heffer
wrote:
>I support the question. If it is possible for perhaps two people that
>posts to ARS to vet the messages publicly, keeping confidence on any
>identity, that would go a long way towards authenticating the material.
>Chuck Beattey has already done so, and that's good, but not good enough
>to satisfy everyone that this is genuine and not an op.
An 'op' - on who? I'm seeing enough info and background buzz
for confirmation that the person is legitimate. People seem
to be quick to express the idea that the Cof$ is infallible
enough to prevent any such communications. The fact that people
escape and get hunted down by roving packs of Hubbardite
sniffer dogs is evidence enough that the mighty Cof$ is simply
full of paranoid people who are too scared not to do what some
high up asks them to do.
Certainly there are plenty of people with enough will left
to want to get the hell out and live a normal life.
---
Heffer, OSA Lackey, H-Group
#315905 on the Dorian List
Regurgitating Propagandist
Ladayla
Probably to Queen of Angels, the County hospital.
la
arnie lerma
wrote:
And seems there are folks who are taking shakespeares 2nd choice
and trying to " by opposing, end them. "
To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing, end them.
Hamlet (III.i.64-68)
>---
>Heffer, OSA Lackey, H-Group
>#315905 on the Dorian List
>Regurgitating Propagandist
If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/comedy.html
The internet is the Liberty Tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/libertyl.html
The only thing that works in Scientology are its lawyers
http://www.lermanet.com/silence.htm
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind
http://www.lermanet.com
Galileo
Pignotti) wrote:
>"Magoo" <mag...@att.net> wrote in message news:<4164...@news2.lightlink.com>...
>> >
>> > Q
>> You are entitled to your opinion,,,,whatever that may be. What kind of "op"
>> are you thinking this is? What would be the outcome?
>
>I think it's pretty obvious: to discredit people who have actual
>experiences on the RPF to tell about. If they generated a hoax and
>people fell for it, as so many here appear to be doing, then that
>destroys credibility for all of us.
>
Another motivation would be to try to cause critics to take action to
"rescue the prisoners" or to say or do something equally stupid. All
the CoS/OSA can hope for at this juncture are stupid words or actions
by critics that tend to make the REAL truth and VALID critical actions
such as pickets seem like lies and religious persecution.
Conclusion: don't say or do anything rash or stupid until more
information comes out and you understand the situation better.
That is also a good guideline for life and particularly for posting to
forums. :)
>> The worst I can possibly see...on the critic side is some critics might call
>> the authorities, they'd check it out..........Scientology would have moved
>> it, and a few people would be wrong. Do you honestly think OSA would say all
>> of this...for that result? I do not.
>
>Yes. It would not surprise me in the least. The other possibilty is
>that this was generated by some ex-Scientologist who (still being in
>the cult mind set) thinks its okay to tell stories and lie for a good
>cause (like the Dorian thing). Or it could just be some sick person
>who is trying to troll us. The least likely possibility, IMO, is that
>someone is actually transmitting info from the RPF.
>
If real, I think the most valid source would be someone not in the RPF
but someone intimately involved with or is able to observe what occurs
on the RPF. Do they have something like trustees in the RPF? Who
supervises these people? I can imagine that SOMEONE has to come
along sooner or later, involved in administering the RPF, who does not
agree with their methods or goals. RPF administrators would
probably be the most sec-checked SO members on the planet, but as we
all know the emeter can be fooled quite easily by someone who knows
how to do it.
If not real, they could have anyone behind them and a number of
motivations. I choose to not doubt that they are real this early in
the game, but I won't believe in their validity until enough evidence
is forthcoming to back up their statements.
I can easily imagine this being an OSA program. My problem with that
theory is that I know Tory and she is very good at smelling out OSA
programs. Not perfect or infallible, but very good.
Still, it could be a new OSA program for Xenu-knows what twisted
purpose. These people ain't rational so don't expect their programs
to always make sense. They are also desperate.
That so many people are questioning the RPF Insider series shows the
layers and extremes of deception we are accustomed to seeing from the
CoS and OSA.
Its healthy to be skeptical about Scientology but IMO not healthy to
discard your faith in humanity by becoming bitter about and
distrustful of everything and everyone. If not for Andreas' faith in
humanity he would not have helped Tory to escape.
Rev. Desertphile de Rothschild
<I-TalSp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>"Quaoar" <qua...@tenthplanet.net> wrote in message
>news:<cJqdnVIyBu0...@comcast.com>...
>>There is one inconsistency, though, that struck me in the write up.
>>The person writing says that "you couldn't talk about this in the RPF
>>because it would come up in the next sec check" - yet this same person
>>who obviously still believes that sec checks work (duh!) is busy
>>sending out write ups like this which they would surely feel "guilty"
>>enough about to cough up in a sec check that they so obviously believe
>>will find them out. Of course it may be that this person has finally
>>come to the realization that sec checks are a bunch of crap...
>>
>>Something, perhaps, to bear in mind.
>I noticed that also. She must know how to 'fake an F/N'. I sure did.
>All you had to do was get your mind/head in a certain 'zone' - turn
>off all think/think, mental chatter, and just 'be there' and the
>needle would always float. It's just a mattter of applying TR0 and
>'being there comfortably' for crying out loud ;-)
But that isn't how an "e-meter" works--- the needle means NOTHING. The
"auditor" is the measuring device, not the "e-meter."
Phil Scott
"RolandRB" <rolan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:52970945.04100...@posting.google.com...
The RPF insider series might be written by an RTC or OSA
person on the way out ....and gathering documents while still
in the good graces....
I think Davey will have to use thumb screws, on the remaining
staff in the areas where those who have access to computers
are.... in order to find out who the leaker is...
Lets hope Davie doesnt resort to mass murder his own people
like so many cult leaders before him.
I had talked to Jeffery Quiros (now dissapeared SF OSA) on
the subject of this eventuality ....for several years now...
I would think he is starting to get a cloooo about now. My
efforts to contact Jimbo Kalergis have failed also... Jimbo
was a tight friend with Reed Slatkin,... if he was also
shilling for that fraud he would have enough insider
information to put half of CoS management into prison as I
see it.
... I hope both of these guys took my advice and kept
documents in a dead letter file in order to discourage his
cult leader pals from murdering them.
This scienology inc thing is just a little worse than anyone
can imagine...imho... and its going to get a LOT worse fast...
it will not be long before David Miscavige holds an event (if
he dare shows up in person risking subpoenae service)...and a
huge and sudden boom of OT-7's attend... then mid way though
the mess start waiving thier rubber chickens and hooting.
It will be over for the cult and David Miscavige at that
juncture.,,following that will come full discloserr on the
stunningly massive world wide bank and real estate fraud... a
lot of people both scn's and non..and banks will get hurt or
ruined utterly by this mess.
Best Regards,
Phil Scott
(415) 927 7573
basicbasic
> It's a fair question but I can tell you this - I know Mariette
> Lindstein and the info that is given about her in this posting is 100%
> correct - well I have to say that I didn;t know she and Billy were
> divorced so I cannot verify that part - but she does come from
> Halmstad near Malmo and no doubt she would go back.
>
> I hope some of the critics in Sweden (bid et alai) can get in touch
> with her and help her through what is going to be an awfully traumatic
> period for her.
>
> Way to go Mariette!!
>
> Deo
One can look at Occams Razor here.
No one has disputed insiders data. Many have validated it.
The one thing some who should know disagree with is the time
and space to write it down. Insider may be writing in retrospect.
However, having seen movies like "The great Escape", where are
the limits of human ingenuity. :)
His data is consistent with Chuck Beattys. Chuck is a known by
one of my friends who webbed his posts. Some weeks ago I spoke
with Chuck. I see him as a straight arrow. :) Also he validated
info I have from other upline sources.
No one has yet to invalidate insiders data.
bb
Zinj
basic...@yahoo.com says...
> deom...@my-deja.com (Deomorto) wrote in message news:<cde9ed89.04100...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > It's a fair question but I can tell you this - I know Mariette
> > Lindstein and the info that is given about her in this posting is 100%
> > correct - well I have to say that I didn;t know she and Billy were
> > divorced so I cannot verify that part - but she does come from
> > Halmstad near Malmo and no doubt she would go back.
> >
> > I hope some of the critics in Sweden (bid et alai) can get in touch
> > with her and help her through what is going to be an awfully traumatic
> > period for her.
> >
> > Way to go Mariette!!
> >
> > Deo
>
> One can look at Occams Razor here.
>
> No one has disputed insiders data.
Oh, but they have. Which is a crying shame, because the data itself
seems to be very accurate *and* potentially useful. Not for a Mayettish
'raid' to free the prisoners or to 'call the cops', since neither is a
practical suggestion, and is very likely to have disasterous results,
but to get an accurate picture of 'what's going on' inside the Cult.
And, as Martha would say; 'That's a *good* thing'.
> Many have validated it.
They have. And others who have not done so here on ARS have also
'validated' the data, and I can't think of a single 'invalidation' on a
specific person or issue, and that makes the entirety of the 'reports'
valuable.
Assuming that Dave and Arnie's 'insider info' is correct (we have no
more proof there than for 'insider's' claims to being 'inside') then the
sheer stupidity of playing games with disinformation becomes obvious.
The only effective purpose of disinformation is not to get the disinfo
*believed*; it's to poison all information.
So, again assuming that Dave and Arnie's 'sources' are correct,
(wouldn't it be nice if those 'sources' identified themselves?), and
'insider' was somebody with 'real' information who was trying to be
'really clever', it's a damn shame that valuable information has been
polluted by stupidity.
I'm not sure which newsgroup Teddy was watching when he complained about
'Insider' being fawned over. From my vantage, the 'insider' reports have
been critically met since the beginning. Sometimes rationaly, sometimes
with the ARS-own double-paranoid they knew that we knew that they knew
that, we thought, that they wanted us to think that... merry-go-round
that even resulted in such silliness as *conviction* that it *must* be
an OSA OP!
Yeah. Right. Next time OSA will publish the account numbers of the Sea
Org Reserve Funds, and maybe the PIN numbers; just so we'll go try to
withdraw a couple of million or so :)
So, thanks to 'cleverness', we now have Monica saying 'that's not the
RPF *I* know!' and Teddy adding 'RPF' to his litany of 'subjects not to
object to' along with 'disconnection'.
Sigh. Pretty damn 'clever' 'insider'.
Still, the 'data' itself seems to be worth holding on to, especially the
names lists, and very probably the physical descriptions. Not so the
ARSCC Commandoes can 'raid the RPF', but because information is better
than no information; and if you take it with a grain of salt, even
disinformation may be information.
I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned what was for me the
most *glaring* 'out-point' in the 'insider' reports:
No; it's not that Scientology 'security' is effective. No, it's not that
someone imprisoned for years can't find minutes to scribble notes. No,
it's not that prisoners without computers who can't e-mail can't
scribble their notes on napkins or toilette paper and hand them off to
other people. Those are less than damning objections.
What struck me was that, after presenting his 'names' list as a list of
in-RPF, released and *blown*; 'Insider' suggested that '170 people
running around' got pretty crowded.
Since at least *some* of the people on his list were already out
(including Chuck), the suggestion that the 'population' stil in RPF was
170 is a definite 'out-point'.
Still, I suspect it's reasonable to infer that the RPF at PAC is larger
now than ever before. Even in 'List 1 Rockslammer' days, when it was
probably closer to 30 people at any one time.
But enough of that for now, since there will be people who toss the baby
out with the bath just because 'insider' was so stupid/clever as to try
to 'effect' reality by manipulating it.
I appreciate the webbing and archiving of the data itself, much as I
still appreciate the webbing/archiving of the Miss X material, which
(surprise!) wasn't really posted by a woman named Miss X!!!.
That's a hell of a lot more than I can say for Dorian of course. But
then again, while Dorian was stupid/unclever disinformation, it *never*
contained any valuable information; merely pseudo intellectual claptrap
with ludicrous and unsubstantiated claims.
Contrary to popular mythology, almost *nobody* bought into Dorian (the
actual numbers of 'dorian supporters' could easilly be counted on the
fingers of a blind band-saw operater's hand), and while there *were*
some very stupid and misguided idiots who pushed the 'who cares if it's
true if it gets people out!?' line...
Well, Dorian was a bust. Is a bust. Was always a bust. No, dear readers,
the only reason you still hear about 'Dorian' is because Anti-Bobism
needs its holocaust; and Bob is gone; Lisa is Dead; But We Want To Bash
Bob! Bob Bob Bob! You'll *never* die! 'We' are the anti-bobists; hear us
roar!'
Gaak.
Sheesh.
Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Deomorto
> "Magoo" <mag...@att.net> wrote in message news:<4164...@news2.lightlink.com>...
> > >
> > > Q
> > You are entitled to your opinion,,,,whatever that may be. What kind of "op"
> > are you thinking this is? What would be the outcome?
>
> I think it's pretty obvious: to discredit people who have actual
> experiences on the RPF to tell about. If they generated a hoax and
> people fell for it, as so many here appear to be doing, then that
> destroys credibility for all of us.
a hoax about what? That the person is not who they claim to be? To be
frank I don;t think it matters a dam. More harm is done by over
exageration than by anything else.
Maybe Janet Weiland is not actually on the RPF and we have been
suckered into a rosy picture of her doubletiming up and down some
greasy stairs and cleaning out grease traps - but so what? If the CofS
releases a glossy picture showing her smiling behind a desk it will
not cause me any heartburn whatsoever.
>
> > The worst I can possibly see...on the critic side is some critics might call
> > the authorities, they'd check it out..........Scientology would have moved
> > it, and a few people would be wrong. Do you honestly think OSA would say all
> > of this...for that result? I do not.
>
> Yes. It would not surprise me in the least. The other possibilty is
> that this was generated by some ex-Scientologist who (still being in
> the cult mind set) thinks its okay to tell stories and lie for a good
> cause (like the Dorian thing). Or it could just be some sick person
> who is trying to troll us. The least likely possibility, IMO, is that
> someone is actually transmitting info from the RPF.
Actually I agree with your last statement - any of us who have done
the RPF are going to wonder how the hell someone would have the time
and wherewithal to put this down and, indeed, to get it out. My best
guess would be that it is someone who just left the RPF but there is
no way of knowing that for sure and all of it is speculation.
>
> > We KNOW the RPF exists. We KNOW variations of this have been said by many
> > before this.
>
> Yes, but that is not evidence that these particular writings are true.
> I find it extremely difficult to believe that an RPFer would be able
> to get access to a computer and write all this stuff.
I agree with you but as with any writing on the internet -
particularly in newsgroups - I find I have to evaluate the info based
against my own experience, my own data and the internal consistency of
the writing. Looks fine to me - I don't care if it is some elaborate
plot dreamed up by some sweaty individual in OSA the rumor that
Mariette Lindstein took off and that Janet Weiland is on the RPF is
fun to read.
>
> > I respect your questions, and I respect their right to speak out. That's all
> > I'll say at this time.
>
> I'd be very surprised to learn that this were true. If it isn't, the
> consequences are that those of us who do have truths to tell lose
> credibility. Think about it. A very major part of critical thinking
> skills is the principle of burden of proof. When someone makes a
> claim, the burden of proof is on the claimant and from what I see,
> this person has fallen far short of providing good evidence that he is
> who he says he is.
>
> Monica
Could be correct though I don't think these postings have consequences
particularly. Wehn magoo arrived on this forum many considered (and
may still consider) her to be an OSA plant, part of some nefarious
plot to infiltrate the higher echelons of the ARSCC (wdne). I could
offer not one shred of 'proof' that she was or is not. I don't care. I
will take people based on what they say and look at what they have to
say. I certainly would not be about to base my actions on someone
posting on ARS.
I have enjoyed many of your postings on ARS and have found some of
your stuff to be amazingly helpful in my long road out of the cofs and
SO mindset - but I have no idea if you are *really* Monica Pignotti.
(lol)
Deo
Deomorto
as I have said elsewhere on this thread - the stuff I know about rings
true with what is written but that does not mean it is absolutely
true.
Funnily enough I was thinking about whether someone would have the
time to do this sort of writing whilst on the RPF and the answer is -
yes, there are several scenarios that would fit the bill though I
would not say that this is what is actually the case.
If you were the C/S in the RPF then you would have time and
opportunity to write something like this - not hard to do and not hard
to remain private - especially if you c/s upper level PCs.
When I was on the RPF I used to lsiten to Football games every week.
Not hard to do and totally verboten of course.
If this person was injured or on some sort of medical restriction they
could well be placed in a position of being left on their own for long
periods of time.
As for whether it could be gotten out? Well yeah - jeez drugs get
smuggled into high security prisons all the time in the real world and
the cofs are pussies compared to the real world.
Anyway my point is not that I say this person is for real - I have
absolutely no way of knowing that. Bu there is nothing in my
experience on the RPF that say that it could not be done.
But one thing does occur to me in reading this over - it is obvious
from the writing that the person has the viewpoint that the RPF is a
nightmare, the person obviously believes that this whole redemption
thing is a crock of crap . So why stay there? If I had been in that
sort of mindset when I was in the RPF I would have walked out. From
reading what they profess to be saying they no longer care about their
future in Scientology (the usual "hold") so why put up with any
inconvenience at all?
Strange
Mike Gormez
<cde9ed89.04100...@posting.google.com>:
>But one thing does occur to me in reading this over - it is obvious
>from the writing that the person has the viewpoint that the RPF is a
>nightmare, the person obviously believes that this whole redemption
>thing is a crock of crap . So why stay there? If I had been in that
>sort of mindset when I was in the RPF I would have walked out. From
>reading what they profess to be saying they no longer care about their
>future in Scientology (the usual "hold") so why put up with any
>inconvenience at all?
I asked about the same thing and Dst gave a convincing answer. Here
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&selm=41639adf%241%40news2.lightlink.com
--
Mike Gormez
- WISE is Scientology recruitment in the workplace http://stop-wise.biz/
- Scientology and health http://www.whyaretheydead.net/
- 'Religious' child abuse and neglect http://www.taxexemptchildabuse.net/
- Hubbard on psychs http://whyaretheydead.net/misc/scientology_hatred_of_psychiatry.html
Ted Mayett
these are coming from inside the rpf. This stuff is archived in
google, and somebody finding it there might just believe it is true.
And that would be totally fantastic if someone would believe this.
Can we get more lies like this to add to the bulk of information
available regarding scientology? I'll be posting a lie regarding
scientology myself. It is a stupid lie, quite stupid in fact. But
somebody might believe it, so it is certainly worth the effort.
--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
Mike Gormez
wrote in <76vem096npvbt32r7...@4ax.com>:
>Oh good, these are still coming along. It is a great idea to pretend
>these are coming from inside the rpf.
<jawn> Ted has a bug up again. My bad but I still want to know what keeps
the RPFers inside.
>This stuff is archived in
>google, and somebody finding it there might just believe it is true.
>And that would be totally fantastic if someone would believe this.
Oh boy, here comes that old line again; archived in Google so be careful
what you say, OSA says critic a is bad so you can't say any thing negative
about critic a because then you are doing 'OSA's work'. Fuck that, I have
not asked be voted the president of ARS.
And you are a bloody hypocrite sir, as I have said before. Only a moron
would publish an assault plan on the cult, and the have the nerv to
caution what I write.
Any more to complain or was that about it for tonite?
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>"On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 23:07:34 -0700, Ted Mayett <tedm...@despammed.com>
>wrote in <76vem096npvbt32r7...@4ax.com>:
>
>>Oh good, these are still coming along. It is a great idea to pretend
>>these are coming from inside the rpf.
>
><jawn> Ted has a bug up again. My bad but I still want to know what keeps
>the RPFers inside.
>
Well, just keep up with the newsletter they post.
Mike Gormez
wrote in <d5kkm0h4a4gj3lcfj...@4ax.com>:
>>>Oh good, these are still coming along. It is a great idea to pretend
>>>these are coming from inside the rpf.
>>
>><jawn> Ted has a bug up again. My bad but I still want to know what keeps
>>the RPFers inside.
>>
>
>Well, just keep up with the newsletter they post.
Do I really have to spell it out? I am not talking about RPFI but RPFers
in general! What is wrong with the answer Dst gave anyway?
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>"On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 02:59:24 -0700, Ted Mayett <tedm...@despammed.com>
>wrote in <d5kkm0h4a4gj3lcfj...@4ax.com>:
>
>>>>Oh good, these are still coming along. It is a great idea to pretend
>>>>these are coming from inside the rpf.
>>>
>>><jawn> Ted has a bug up again. My bad but I still want to know what keeps
>>>the RPFers inside.
>>>
>>
>>Well, just keep up with the newsletter they post.
>
>Do I really have to spell it out? I am not talking about RPFI but RPFers
>in general! What is wrong with the answer Dst gave anyway?
I think I understand. Finally. By way of example... if someone were
to ask me why people stay in something like the rpf, I would have to
say to that person, "I don't know." And the thing is, I really don't
know why they stay in the rpf. What I do know though, is that to
learn this would require some years of college.
I'm exceedingly critical of reports like this, life inside the rpf and
etc. But why? I don't think I'm qualified to analyze reports like
this. But it is more than that. I don't think the reports mean that
much to begin with. That they are at best a guide to an issue, and
that the real reasons why a person stays in an rpf, or even a cult, is
unknown to that person.
And yet some of us here would assign a value to reports like this, as
though they had a meaning. But what does a mental health professional
say of things like this? I have no idea myself, no schooling
whatsoever in this field.
On August 12, 1995, Church representatives conducted a raid of Arnie
Lerma's home in Arlington, Virginia. Now this is a fact here.
October something, 2004, an anonymous person wrote about life inside
the RPF. This is a 'nothing' here.
Do we have court statements about this rpf? Notarized statements,
anything like this? If so these have some value.
But unlike you and others Mike, I have no illusions of ever
understanding why people stay inside something like the rpf. No way
will I ever put in the years of study required, to be able to claim I
know something an issue like this.
It would seem the field of mental health is populated with
experts and "experts", and I am neither of these. And so I am so
cynical about it all. I notice people smarter than myself never
bother with threads like these, I shall join those people. I'll see
any possible response, and answer any questions that might come along.
And then ignore this totally.
I'm talking to this guy I know, retiring soon, I ask him what he is
going to do. He say's, "photography has always interested me, I'm
going to school to learn photography." And I realize I don't hear
this often anymore in life, someone saying they are going to school to
learn something. And yet, anybody can point a camera and take a
picture. Fascinating when you think about it all.
If reading anonymous reports, which may or may not be true, can give
you the ability to understand why people stay in the rpf. Well good
for you. That is great. Sorry to lay all this negativity on your
plate here Mike. My apologies.
Something out of that Anderson Report about how AU psychiatrists or
psychologists are required two years of college before being qualified
to analyze a persons personality. And yet scientologists with one
hours worth of training can do an OCA and analyze a personality.
It is all so very fascinating.
Mike Gormez
wrote in <sl7mm0td1ak29kphn...@4ax.com>:
>>>>>Oh good, these are still coming along. It is a great idea to pretend
>>>>>these are coming from inside the rpf.
>>>>
>>>><jawn> Ted has a bug up again. My bad but I still want to know what keeps
>>>>the RPFers inside.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well, just keep up with the newsletter they post.
>>
>>Do I really have to spell it out? I am not talking about RPFI but RPFers
>>in general! What is wrong with the answer Dst gave anyway?
>
>I think I understand. Finally. By way of example... if someone were
>to ask me why people stay in something like the rpf, I would have to
>say to that person, "I don't know." And the thing is, I really don't
>know why they stay in the rpf. What I do know though, is that to
>learn this would require some years of college.
I think you make a mockery on purpose but that's okay. Perhaps that's the
difference between us two. The motives of people have always fascinated
me ever since I can remember. Just as large buildings intrigued me, so to
does the human mind.
I'll give you a more comprehensive reply but for now I've to stop.
Mike Gormez
wrote in <sl7mm0td1ak29kphn...@4ax.com>:
>>Do I really have to spell it out? I am not talking about RPFI but RPFers
>>in general! What is wrong with the answer Dst gave anyway?
>
>I think I understand. Finally. By way of example... if someone were
>to ask me why people stay in something like the rpf, I would have to
>say to that person, "I don't know." And the thing is, I really don't
>know why they stay in the rpf. What I do know though, is that to
>learn this would require some years of college.
You gamble for a living, that would be impossible if you can't 'read' your
fellow players a bit. Right? So too with the scieno's. I don't say we
will know all the reasons but we can try to understand at least the
conditions that shape their thinking.
>I'm exceedingly critical of reports like this, life inside the rpf and
>etc. But why? I don't think I'm qualified to analyze reports like
>this. But it is more than that. I don't think the reports mean that
>much to begin with. That they are at best a guide to an issue, and
>that the real reasons why a person stays in an rpf, or even a cult, is
>unknown to that person.
For me they are also a guide, little things to pickout. Store in your mind
as 'has to prove itself' and in the time to come, see if they pan out or
not.
>And yet some of us here would assign a value to reports like this, as
>though they had a meaning. But what does a mental health professional
>say of things like this? I have no idea myself, no schooling
>whatsoever in this field.
Haha.. ask your local psych.
>On August 12, 1995, Church representatives conducted a raid of Arnie
>Lerma's home in Arlington, Virginia. Now this is a fact here.
>
>October something, 2004, an anonymous person wrote about life inside
>the RPF. This is a 'nothing' here.
>
>Do we have court statements about this rpf? Notarized statements,
>anything like this? If so these have some value.
Yes some, but they too can't be taken on face value without questioning.
>But unlike you and others Mike, I have no illusions of ever
>understanding why people stay inside something like the rpf. No way
>will I ever put in the years of study required, to be able to claim I
>know something an issue like this.
Isn't live about learning? The day I stop asking questions is the day
they can bury me.
>It would seem the field of mental health is populated with
>experts and "experts", and I am neither of these. And so I am so
>cynical about it all. I notice people smarter than myself never
>bother with threads like these, I shall join those people. I'll see
>any possible response, and answer any questions that might come along.
>And then ignore this totally.
>
>I'm talking to this guy I know, retiring soon, I ask him what he is
>going to do. He say's, "photography has always interested me, I'm
>going to school to learn photography." And I realize I don't hear
>this often anymore in life, someone saying they are going to school to
>learn something. And yet, anybody can point a camera and take a
>picture. Fascinating when you think about it all.
I think more people are going to school or following courses or learn
stuff on the sideline than you'd think. I've two courses on my schedule
in the next two months but that is not the topic here and so I don't
mention that.
>If reading anonymous reports, which may or may not be true, can give
>you the ability to understand why people stay in the rpf. Well good
>for you. That is great. Sorry to lay all this negativity on your
>plate here Mike. My apologies.
Attaching a name to a report doesn't make it true either. You have your
own mind.
>Something out of that Anderson Report about how AU psychiatrists or
>psychologists are required two years of college before being qualified
>to analyze a persons personality. And yet scientologists with one
>hours worth of training can do an OCA and analyze a personality.
Even better, dutch psychologists have to have 2 years of counseling
themselves before they can start. This way screwed up people are filtered
out and unsolved 'issues' can be dealt with. I think it is sensible
thing.
realpch
>
> Hi all,
>
> I know, I have not posted for a very long time, but everything is ok
> here.
>
> I want to back up what Deo says to 100 % - I also knows Mariette and I
> am going to try all possible means to find her if she happens to be
> back in Sweden, and if she wants any contact.
>
> Regarding the sources for the info in the newsletters - YES I can
> verify that the "Insider" is for real, I happen to KNOW that.
>
> Bid
Great Bid. Can you communicate to the "Insider" how badly the ruse of
pretending that this person was currently in the RPF flopped here, and
that it might be advisable to correct this officially?
Peach
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>>And yet some of us here would assign a value to reports like this, as
>>though they had a meaning. But what does a mental health professional
>>say of things like this? I have no idea myself, no schooling
>>whatsoever in this field.
>
>Haha.. ask your local psych.
>
Good idea.
Warrior
Zinj says...
>
<snips>
>What struck me was that, after presenting his 'names' list as a list
>of in-RPF, released and *blown*; 'Insider' suggested that '170 people
>running around' got pretty crowded.
>
>Since at least *some* of the people on his list were already out
>(including Chuck), the suggestion that the 'population' stil in
>RPF was 170 is a definite 'out-point'.
>
>Still, I suspect it's reasonable to infer that the RPF at PAC is
>larger now than ever before. Even in 'List 1 Rockslammer' days,
>when it was probably closer to 30 people at any one time.
During the "List One Era" in PAC there were over 200 Sea Org members
on the RPF. Here's a post I made seven years ago. I've corrected
my original mis-spelling of John and Wendy Bostrom's last name.
Title: SO members on RPF
Author: Warrior
Date: 4 Sep 1997
>Warrior wrote:
>>
>> Recently I have had correspondence by email with an individual in
>> which I stated that I could probably name over 100 people who were sent
>> to the RPF in PAC. Many, many close friends of mine were erroneously
>> labelled as "List One R/Sers". To those of you reading this who do not
>> know, this is the same as a "suppressive person". The price these Sea
>> Org members paid on the RPF, due to being falsely declared "SPs" is
>> enormous.
In article <5umc6b$2...@netaxs.com>, Rod Keller said:
>
>Are you thinking of posting this list? It'd be interesting for future
>reference, no?
OK. Here it is. All of the persons below were Sea Org members who were
sent to the RPF. This list is based upon my personal recollection of events
which occurred between 15-20 years ago while I was still in the Sea Org.
You will not find the names below listed on a single issue (like an Ethics
Order). The individuals listed below were Sea Org members mostly in PAC
at the time they were ordered to the RPF. A large percentage of these people
were sent to the RPF as supposed "List One R/Sers", although others were
sent because of other reasons like "out-2D" behavior, for being "low OCA
non-producers", "repeated stat crashers", etc.
I suppose I should make a disclaimer in the event I make a mistake or
two. So in this regard I will say that I could be mistaken about a few of
the individuals on this list. Anyone who feels I have erred is welcome to
make a correction, for although I am a "Clear" and my memory is pretty
good, it is not perfect.
The individuals on this list were ordered to the RPF:
1. Barbara Adams - HCO Area Sec ASHO D
2. Bella Adams - was CO Cadet Estates Org
3. Chuck Adams
4. Steve Adams - Estates Mgr ASHO D
5. Paulette Ausley - she's the one who did the false "L-1" labelling
6. Cindy Avrin - ASHO D Div 6
7. Patricia 'Patty' Azevedo aka Patty Grant
8. Rick Aznaran - now of Phoenix Investigations
9. Vicki Aznaran - was Pres RTC
10. Jamie Beardsley - ASHO F Div 1
11. Jane Bertinot - ASHO D Div 6
12. Sherry Bird - ASHO D Div 2
13. John Bostrom - was Dir Income ASHO D
14. Wendy Bostrom - Letter Reg ASHO D
15. Sissy Brown - Recruiter ASHO D
16. Kevin Bryan - HCO ASHO F
17. Stacy Bryan - ASHO F
18. David Butterworth - GO/OSA/ASHO D
19. Maggie Butterworth - CO ASHO D/LRH Comm/Case Supervisor
20. Richard Byrd - Bridge Pubs
21. James 'Jim' Neil Chapman - was Treasury Sec ASHO D
22. Teresa Cintron - AOLA
23. Frank Clark - AOLA
24. Lori Coanda - ASHO D
25. Debra Convery - ASHO D/CEO
26. Al Crivello - was AGF AOLA
27. Linda Darlington - ASHO D
28. Shelby Davis - ASHO D
29. Marilyn DeWitt - ASHO F
30. Kathy Drayton - LRH Comm ASHO D
31. Cathy Dunn - CESO
32. Bruce Duszak - AOLA
33. Ben Elkington - Treas Sec Pubs - now an IAS patron
34. Sue Elkington - Pubs US
35. James X. Ellingson - ASHO D Div 2
36. Gary Epstein - was CO AOLA
37. Leslie Epstein - CO ASHO/CO AOLA/LC NW
38. Mitch Esterman - ASHO D Word Clearer
39. Sally Esterman - CCLA - was Mitch's wife - now deceased
40. Richard Ferry - CESO
41. Doug Fiandaca - SO in PAC
42. Joyce Fiandaca - GO GLA
43. Patricia Garrett - ASHO F
44. Bobby Giles - Purchasing Agent for L Ron Hubbard
45. Claire Graef - ASHO D
46. Allen Grondin - Tech Sec/Chief Off ASHO D
47. DK Halloran - PAC SO
48. Elsa Hamilton - ASHO D HCO
49. Eddie Hansen - Cope Officer ASHO D
50. Jackie Harvey - SSO ASHO D
51. Marty Helgeson - ASHO F
52. Linda Hodge - ASHO D Div 2
53. April Huff - Bridge/GO Finance
54. Greg Huff - Bridge Publications
55. Bob Jaillet - Bridge Publications
56. Karen Jensen - Dir Inc ASHO F
57. Marty Kassowitz - PAC SO
58. Penny Keaton - ASHO F
59. Anita Klock - Bridge Publications
60. Paul Koval - CO ASHO D
61. Janet Landon - ASHO F
62. Alan Lazar - AOLA
63. Sandy Lazar - AOLA
64. Mickey Layne - ASHO D
65. Gerianne Long - Bridge Publications
66. Sam Loria - AOLA
67. David Mayo - was Snr C/S Int
68. Merrill Mayo - David's wife
69. Sherry Miljoiner - ASHO D Word Clearer
70. Doug Nagy - Tours Reg ASHO D
71. Guy Norlen - FBO NW
72. Jeanie Norlen - ASHO F
73. Renee Norton - CO ASHO F
74. Ivan Obilensky - CO AOLA
75. Paulette Otten - SO in PAC
76. Richard Otten - FBO NW
77. David Pearson - FBO Pubs US
78. Nancy Phelps aka Nancy Schwartz - ASHO F/PAC SO
79. Alan Prager - CO ASHO D
80. Dawn Prager aka Dawn Granger aka Dawn Greene - Public Off/CO ASHO D
81. Cecilia Prefontaine - AOLA
82. Kari Rask - FR NW
83. Rosan Rich - Dir Inc Pubs US
84. Sue Richeson - BSO ASHO D
85. Barbara Rubio - was ordered but refused to report; was Snr C/S ASHO D
86. Mike Rubio - ASHO D HCO/Flag/FOLO WUS
87. Don Saito - Address Off ASHO D
88. Elaine Savitsky - TTC ASHO D
89. Vic Scelza - FOLOWUS
90. Bobby Schaffner - ASHO F HCO/Address Off - now dead
91. Ken Shapiro - Body Reg/ SHSBC Sup ASHO D
92. Candace 'Candy' Sias - Pubs US
93. Paul Sias - Pubs USS
94. Michael Silverman - AOLA Registrar
95. Pat Silverman - AOLA Div 6
96. Bill Skrifvars - HCO Area Sec ASHO D
97. Karen Spencer - FBO ASHO D
98. Larry Spencer - FBO ASHO D
99. Sheila Stankey - AOLA
100. Andre Tabayoyon - AOLA
101. Mary Tabayoyon - AOLA
102. Leslie Thompson - Dissem Sec/CO ASHO D
103. Ralph Toddhunter - ASHO F - wife Susan died of cancer
104. Bob Toftness - TTC ASHO D
105. Ruthie Weissberg - PES ASHO D
106. Carol Woodruff - AOLA
107. Craig Wright - ASHO D Tech Div
108. Suzanne Wright - Pubs US
109. Stacy Young - RVY's wife
110. Anne Zanier - FOLO WUS
111. Loren Zanier - CESO
For every person I have named, there is another person whose face
I can recall but whose name I cannot, who was on the RPF. Sad...Makes
me angry.
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
http://warrior.xenu.ca
Keith Henson
Peach I don't think that's a good idea. Long as the "Insider" has
this mask on, scientology can't give him to much trouble. Soon as he
comes out Abelson will be serving him like he did Chuck Betty.
Incidentally, if anyone knows the Mariette's maiden name it would be
useful for you to send it to Bid.
Keith Henson
Zinj
says...
> In article <MPG.1bcf6db69...@news2.lightlink.com>,
> Zinj says...
> >
> <snips>
>
> >What struck me was that, after presenting his 'names' list as a list
> >of in-RPF, released and *blown*; 'Insider' suggested that '170 people
> >running around' got pretty crowded.
> >
> >Since at least *some* of the people on his list were already out
> >(including Chuck), the suggestion that the 'population' stil in
> >RPF was 170 is a definite 'out-point'.
> >
> >Still, I suspect it's reasonable to infer that the RPF at PAC is
> >larger now than ever before. Even in 'List 1 Rockslammer' days,
> >when it was probably closer to 30 people at any one time.
>
>
> During the "List One Era" in PAC there were over 200 Sea Org members
> on the RPF. Here's a post I made seven years ago. I've corrected
> my original mis-spelling of John and Wendy Bostrom's last name.
<snip important list>
I suspect that, while there may have been 200 people on RPF at the time
of the 'List One Rockslammer' period, few knew about the scope.
My objection to 'insider's' posts was that 'he' claimed 170 'current
residents 'running around', after himself saying that some of them
(Chuck for example) were already blown.
It's not that big an issue, but it is important here, since it's
probably unlikely that an RPFer would ever have a 'full' comprehension
of who was on RPF.
From the 'List One'r' person I know, the comment was that 170 sounded
insanely high for PAC, where 30 was more typical for List One, and far
fewer for normal conditions.
That's not to say that the Cult doesn't have 2,000 hidden away in
various basements or sheds in the desert. Just that few RPFers would
actually *know* who was around.
realpch
Well I wasn't suggesting that the person say who he/she is, but I guess
you have a point. Any further clarification would tend to "out" the person.
Peach
Zinj
says...
> On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:14:40 -0700, Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <7acb5afd.04100...@posting.google.com>,
> >basic...@yahoo.com says...
>
>
> >> No one has disputed insiders data.
> >
> >Oh, but they have. Which is a crying shame, because the data itself
> >seems to be very accurate *and* potentially useful. Not for a Mayettish
> >'raid' to free the prisoners or to 'call the cops', since neither is a
> >practical suggestion, and is very likely to have disasterous results,
>
> ticket. First one on the west coast.
>
> Keith Henson
Tch. The Festive Season is upon us.
How bout Santarchy 2004 at Gold?
But, to tell you the truth, and despite earlier contacts... I doubt even
*they* have the sheer balls necessary.