Jonathon: How to be an independent Scientologist
Yarnosh
has explicitly claimed to be an "independent" Scientologist.
I know he's suggested that we should all buy the basic books. Fine,
whatever. Lets say you got the books available from the store. Read
them. Love them. Live them. Whatever. What next?
1) How does one, independent of the Church, get audited?
3) Who declares him or her to be "clear?"
2) Once clear, how does an independent Scientologist progress through
the OT levels without (legal) access to the materials?
4) Where do you get your E-Meter?
5) Who trains you to read it?
In short, how can you separate the Religion of Scientology from the
Church of Scientology when the Church insists on keeping so much of
the religion secret? It just doesn't make sense. I will grant that it
may be theoretically possible to differentiate the two, but in
practice, they seem to be one and the same (religion and church).
Jonathon Barbera
wrote:
>This question is mainly for Jonathon as he's the only one I know who
>has explicitly claimed to be an "independent" Scientologist.
>
>I know he's suggested that we should all buy the basic books. Fine,
>whatever. Lets say you got the books available from the store. Read
>them. Love them. Live them. Whatever. What next?
>
I'm very glad you asked me this. I am the only one who is both willing
and able to answer this question. As you may or may not know, I came
back to ars last year to revel in my latest wins from Scientology
auditing.
>1) How does one, independent of the Church, get audited?
There are two choices. One is to find another independent
Scientologist and then co-audit. The second is considered more in
lines of "cope", but is simply the solo-auditing of the same materials
exactly as though another person was being audited.
>3) Who declares him or her to be "clear?"
There are specific phenomena related to the state of Clear that are
described in the technical references. Ultimately, however, it is the
pc who knows when it happens. Trying to tell someone he or she is
Clear is suppressive.
>2) Once clear, how does an independent Scientologist progress through
>the OT levels without (legal) access to the materials?
Do they care to do so?
There's a lot of non-confidential OT material available in the basic
books and the lectures. The technical references contain even more.
The fact is, there is enough non-confidental material to keep a pre-OT
solo-auditing for years if they so wished.
>4) Where do you get your E-Meter?
The one I used for my expanded grades is called a Clarity Meter by
Hank Levin. They only cost around a thousand. Be sure to order a solo
electrode if you plan to solo-audit. A gold-plated version is also
available.
>5) Who trains you to read it?
>
There are four E-Meter books by L. Ron Hubbard plus lectures and
numerous technical references. Yes, there's a lot of study, but if I
can do it, then can't anyone?
>In short, how can you separate the Religion of Scientology from the
>Church of Scientology when the Church insists on keeping so much of
>the religion secret? It just doesn't make sense. I will grant that it
>may be theoretically possible to differentiate the two, but in
>practice, they seem to be one and the same (religion and church).
>
I do rely on the church to publish the books and lectures, but if
Golden Era Productions and Bridge Publications were removed from the
church and made into a separate non-profit organization, that would
work for me, too.
As I told the locals here on ars some nine months ago, I am an example
of the new hybrid Scientologist. I can have my case gain and wins
while being happy with the results! And the same can be true for you.
SODDI the FluffyWuffkins
Next time you feel the need to spend $1000 on two cans and some wire, send
the money to me.
I'll wipe my ass with it and it will be put to better use.
Yarnosh
wrote:
> >1) How does one, independent of the Church, get audited?
>
> There are two choices. One is to find another independent
> Scientologist and then co-audit. The second is considered more in
> lines of "cope", but is simply the solo-auditing of the same materials
> exactly as though another person was being audited.
Don't you normally have to be in the upper OT levels to solo audit?
How do you justify this break from doctrine?
> >3) Who declares him or her to be "clear?"
>
> There are specific phenomena related to the state of Clear that are
> described in the technical references. Ultimately, however, it is the
> pc who knows when it happens. Trying to tell someone he or she is
> Clear is suppressive.
> >2) Once clear, how does an independent Scientologist progress through
> >the OT levels without (legal) access to the materials?
>
> Do they care to do so?
Why not? I might if I really thought it was more than science fiction.
> There's a lot of non-confidential OT material available in the basic
> books and the lectures. The technical references contain even more.
But don't you feel deprived by the Church? Doesn't it seem strange
that they would try to keep such valuable information from teh public?
> The fact is, there is enough non-confidental material to keep a pre-OT
> solo-auditing for years if they so wished.
Is a pre-OT qualified to solo-audit? What do you think LRH would think
of independent Scientology?
> >4) Where do you get your E-Meter?
>
> The one I used for my expanded grades is called a Clarity Meter by
> Hank Levin. They only cost around a thousand. Be sure to order a solo
> electrode if you plan to solo-audit. A gold-plated version is also
> available.
I've seen the schematics, I could probably build one in my basement
for $25. :P
> >5) Who trains you to read it?
>
> There are four E-Meter books by L. Ron Hubbard plus lectures and
> numerous technical references. Yes, there's a lot of study, but if I
> can do it, then can't anyone?
I don't know.
> >In short, how can you separate the Religion of Scientology from the
> >Church of Scientology when the Church insists on keeping so much of
> >the religion secret? It just doesn't make sense. I will grant that it
> >may be theoretically possible to differentiate the two, but in
> >practice, they seem to be one and the same (religion and church).
>
> I do rely on the church to publish the books and lectures, but if
> Golden Era Productions and Bridge Publications were removed from the
> church and made into a separate non-profit organization, that would
> work for me, too.
But it doesn't bother you at all that the Church is as LRH intended it
to be? I mean, it isn't like LRH is long dead and Scientology has had
time to really degrade into something that it wasn't meant to be. How
can you trust a man that created such a terrible organization?
> As I told the locals here on ars some nine months ago, I am an example
> of the new hybrid Scientologist. I can have my case gain and wins
> while being happy with the results! And the same can be true for you.
You don't strike me as a happy person. In fact, you seem rather
dependent on the negative attention drawn by your association with
Scientology. WHile at the same time being particularly sensitive to
it. I really feel sorry for you, quite frankly.
Anonology
wrote:
> >4) Where do you get your E-Meter?
>
> The one I used for my expanded grades is called a Clarity Meter by
> Hank Levin. They only cost around a thousand. Be sure to order a solo
> electrode if you plan to solo-audit. A gold-plated version is also
> available.
>
A thousand bucks for an Ohmmeter? Dayum, there really is a sucker
born every minute... how much do they get for the gold plated one?
capricious
Ummmm Anonology, are you thinking what I'm thinking?
(No, not THAT! We'll take over the world later, sigh)
Let's start making eMeters, yaa?!?!?!?
peters...@gmail.com
The CULT demands 4000 for it. And all it is is a modified Ohm-meter
that is available in your local tool store for about 10 dollars!
Production of the E-meter is a mere 25 dollars!
CULT of greed? Oh YES it is!
Peter
Terry McGool
i loved el ron when i was jack parsons, we made made butt sex... with
marjorie cameron too, and Uncle Al's ife, yes it was a regular bucket
of fuck monkeys.
I'm not saying I was jack parsons all the time, oh by no means, but
one occasions I popped into mr. belarions head as I felt like it,
amongst other places.
I am Xenu hear me take your money!!!
Anonology
shit yeah... we can sell em on ebay for like 500 and make a fortune :)
Jonathon Barbera
wrote:
>On Apr 7, 6:45 pm, Jonathon Barbera <jonathonbarb...@ispname.net>
>wrote:
>
>> >1) How does one, independent of the Church, get audited?
>>
>> There are two choices. One is to find another independent
>> Scientologist and then co-audit. The second is considered more in
>> lines of "cope", but is simply the solo-auditing of the same materials
>> exactly as though another person was being audited.
>
>Don't you normally have to be in the upper OT levels to solo audit?
>How do you justify this break from doctrine?
>
As I said, that falls under the category of "cope". Some consider it
sub-optimum, so a co-audit would be preferable for them.
>> >3) Who declares him or her to be "clear?"
>>
>> There are specific phenomena related to the state of Clear that are
>> described in the technical references. Ultimately, however, it is the
>> pc who knows when it happens. Trying to tell someone he or she is
>> Clear is suppressive.
>
>> >2) Once clear, how does an independent Scientologist progress through
>> >the OT levels without (legal) access to the materials?
>>
>> Do they care to do so?
>
>Why not? I might if I really thought it was more than science fiction.
>
Then read the instructions from the internet.
>> There's a lot of non-confidential OT material available in the basic
>> books and the lectures. The technical references contain even more.
>
>But don't you feel deprived by the Church? Doesn't it seem strange
>that they would try to keep such valuable information from teh public?
>
Did they?
>> The fact is, there is enough non-confidental material to keep a pre-OT
>> solo-auditing for years if they so wished.
>
>Is a pre-OT qualified to solo-audit? What do you think LRH would think
>of independent Scientology?
>
If you aren't up to it, then go to the church and pay their auditor to
audit you.
>> >4) Where do you get your E-Meter?
>>
>> The one I used for my expanded grades is called a Clarity Meter by
>> Hank Levin. They only cost around a thousand. Be sure to order a solo
>> electrode if you plan to solo-audit. A gold-plated version is also
>> available.
>
>I've seen the schematics, I could probably build one in my basement
>for $25. :P
>
To me $25 and $1000 are roughly the same. I paid extra for the fancy
box. That's my preference. You can try to build one if that's the only
way to get your case handled.
>> >5) Who trains you to read it?
>>
>> There are four E-Meter books by L. Ron Hubbard plus lectures and
>> numerous technical references. Yes, there's a lot of study, but if I
>> can do it, then can't anyone?
>
>I don't know.
>
If you aren't up to it, then go to the church and let them train you.
That's probably best for the majority of people out there.
>> >In short, how can you separate the Religion of Scientology from the
>> >Church of Scientology when the Church insists on keeping so much of
>> >the religion secret? It just doesn't make sense. I will grant that it
>> >may be theoretically possible to differentiate the two, but in
>> >practice, they seem to be one and the same (religion and church).
>>
>> I do rely on the church to publish the books and lectures, but if
>> Golden Era Productions and Bridge Publications were removed from the
>> church and made into a separate non-profit organization, that would
>> work for me, too.
>
>But it doesn't bother you at all that the Church is as LRH intended it
>to be? I mean, it isn't like LRH is long dead and Scientology has had
>time to really degrade into something that it wasn't meant to be. How
>can you trust a man that created such a terrible organization?
>
He didn't create a terrible organization. I was actually staff and in
the Sea Org. I was there. It's not what you falsely believe it to be.
>> As I told the locals here on ars some nine months ago, I am an example
>> of the new hybrid Scientologist. I can have my case gain and wins
>> while being happy with the results! And the same can be true for you.
>
>You don't strike me as a happy person. In fact, you seem rather
>dependent on the negative attention drawn by your association with
>Scientology. WHile at the same time being particularly sensitive to
>it. I really feel sorry for you, quite frankly.
>
Trust me, kiddo, the image I project on this newsgroup or on my
youtube account do not accurately represent me!
As I've posted several times already, I have to alter my posting style
to REACH the audience. A person who is crazy, for example, cannot
receive sane communication. Therefore, by injecting a little craziness
into some of my posts, I can REACH the level on which many of the
regulars are stuck.
I've been studying my audience long enough to know how they will react
to my messages. I've found that a sensible, rational article which
clearly and succinctly sums up my viewpoint will not communicate here.
By adjusting my posting style to REACH the audience, I can
communicate.
You seem more interested in the "negative attention" than I am. I'm
not interested in your sympathy. In fact, I am quite happy to say that
I do not need it. The hate mail doesn't bother me whatsoever. I only
mention it as objective evidence that some members of Anonymous are
actually targeting the religion of Scientology and not merely the
church as previously claimed.
Jonathon Barbera
If the meters actually worked correctly, then you could sell them to
all of the Anonymous members who previously pirated the materials.
After all, they can't use the materials they have without a working
meter.
Anonology
wrote:
>
> To me $25 and $1000 are roughly the same.
>
Then how come you didn't go for the much classier hardcover
editions...
of those books you had published...
that got such crappy reviews...
?
Junior Mints
> wrote:
>
> >This question is mainly for Jonathon as he's the only one I know who
> >has explicitly claimed to be an "independent" Scientologist.
>
> >I know he's suggested that we should all buy the basic books. Fine,
> >whatever. Lets say you got the books available from the store. Read
> >them. Love them. Live them. Whatever. What next?
>
> I'm very glad you asked me this. I am the only one who is both willing
> and able to answer this question. As you may or may not know, I came
> back to ars last year to revel in my latest wins from Scientology
> auditing.
>
> >1) How does one, independent of the Church, get audited?
>
> There are two choices. One is to find another independent
> Scientologist and then co-audit. The second is considered more in
> lines of "cope", but is simply the solo-auditing of the same materials
> exactly as though another person was being audited.
>
your nearest liquor store) and you'll have two advantages, you'll
actually have something occurring with you and you'll actually have
some fun. You'll never get that from the "Church" and getting audited
so a big fat nothing. Nothing in, nothing out except the money you
paid.
Get it through your thick, mindless skull, there is no there there.
None. Auditing doesn't work. The E-meter is a sham. And your a
drooling idiot so I'll make fun of you.
Rev. Dr. Junior Mints
Neurosis is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over
Don Stockbauer
There too much in usenet.
Too much.
itz goig off-scale high,infinite.
I jsut acnt take Hlep! help! hel[ !jhmejh!hsd,djvvb
theyre here
the ginat slime creature from beta lyrae 7!!!!!
mkajs
,sjkshs
msjshmlanguage its infinute shsgsmsd
help help smksjsjhsmns
some body put mensagsgshnsmsdk,djdhsnmsdm,djhs
,ssi love you all it was nice rmshsgsmdm,no pain no pnio no pain
those statetments were false
epi ripides pants, epimenides pants.
Bud McDermot
All I want to know is, how do you make a living from the
stockmarket?
Yarnosh
wrote:
> >Don't you normally have to be in the upper OT levels to solo audit?
> >How do you justify this break from doctrine?
>
> As I said, that falls under the category of "cope". Some consider it
> sub-optimum, so a co-audit would be preferable for them.
Seems like a pretty signifant break from teh Tech to me. One can only
assume there are reasons why only high OT's are normally alowed to
self audit.
> >> >2) Once clear, how does an independent Scientologist progress through
> >> >the OT levels without (legal) access to the materials?
>
> >> Do they care to do so?
>
> >Why not? I might if I really thought it was more than science fiction.
>
> Then read the instructions from the internet.
You mean the leaked materials?
>
> >> There's a lot of non-confidential OT material available in the basic
> >> books and the lectures. The technical references contain even more.
>
> >But don't you feel deprived by the Church? Doesn't it seem strange
> >that they would try to keep such valuable information from teh public?
>
> Did they?
Sure, they sue people who leak top secret information and they
intentionally try to keep certain information out of the hands of
PC's. You're basically eating their crumbs and relying on information
leaked by anti-scientologists.
> >Is a pre-OT qualified to solo-audit? What do you think LRH would think
> >of independent Scientology?
>
> If you aren't up to it, then go to the church and pay their auditor to
> audit you.
You didn't answer the question(s). Is a pre-OT person qualified,
according to LRH, to solo-audit? What do you think LRH would think of
independent scientology?
> >I've seen the schematics, I could probably build one in my basement
> >for $25. :P
>
> To me $25 and $1000 are roughly the same. I paid extra for the fancy
> box. That's my preference. You can try to build one if that's the only
> way to get your case handled.
Are you independently wealthy or something? Trust fund kid?
> >> There are four E-Meter books by L. Ron Hubbard plus lectures and
> >> numerous technical references. Yes, there's a lot of study, but if I
> >> can do it, then can't anyone?
>
> >I don't know.
>
> If you aren't up to it, then go to the church and let them train you.
> That's probably best for the majority of people out there.
Why would you encourage me to join a cult that you yourself blew
from?
> >But it doesn't bother you at all that the Church is as LRH intended it
> >to be? I mean, it isn't like LRH is long dead and Scientology has had
> >time to really degrade into something that it wasn't meant to be. How
> >can you trust a man that created such a terrible organization?
>
> He didn't create a terrible organization. I was actually staff and in
> the Sea Org. I was there. It's not what you falsely believe it to be.
I've read plenty of stories from former Sea Org members and they all
seem to have the same general story, which makes the Church sound
pretty horrible and cult-like. You're still suckered into paying $1000
for a $25 dollar device, so I think I'll just continue to believe the
other former Sea Org and staff members over you. Sounds like you're
still under their influence despite blowing.
> >You don't strike me as a happy person. In fact, you seem rather
> >dependent on the negative attention drawn by your association with
> >Scientology. WHile at the same time being particularly sensitive to
> >it. I really feel sorry for you, quite frankly.
>
> Trust me, kiddo, the image I project on this newsgroup or on my
> youtube account do not accurately represent me!
Kiddo?? Please. You're like 3 years older than me.
Do you think giving Scientologists a reputation for being whiney,
emotional children advances your religion?
> As I've posted several times already, I have to alter my posting style
> to REACH the audience. A person who is crazy, for example, cannot
> receive sane communication. Therefore, by injecting a little craziness
> into some of my posts, I can REACH the level on which many of the
> regulars are stuck.
That's stupid. If you are purposefully misrepresenting yourself, I
think you're doing it because you enjoy the attention it gets you.
> I've been studying my audience long enough to know how they will react
> to my messages. I've found that a sensible, rational article which
> clearly and succinctly sums up my viewpoint will not communicate here.
> By adjusting my posting style to REACH the audience, I can
> communicate.
Just who do you think you're reaching? Have you read the responses to
your posts? Everyone is laughing at you. Same with your YouTube
videos. You're a joke, Jonathon.
> You seem more interested in the "negative attention" than I am.
I'm not the one posting YouTube videos complaining about bad book
reviews.
> I'm not interested in your sympathy.
Of course you're not. You're more interested in the negative attention
I give you because it validates you.
> In fact, I am quite happy to say that I do not need it. The hate mail doesn't bother me whatsoever.
I know! In fact, I think you may even like it. I think you thrive on
the negative attention. You go out of your way to seem "crazy" to draw
the mockery of others.
> I only
> mention it as objective evidence that some members of Anonymous are
> actually targeting the religion of Scientology and not merely the
> church as previously claimed.
To what aim, Jonathon? Nobody cares.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:39:03 -0700 (PDT), Yarnosh <yarn...@gmail.com>
Dear Jonathan,
You might also do some reading, so as to put yourself in historical
context, just so when you DO get interviewed by this or that new
religious movement researcher/scholar/student that you know where they
are coming from, and so you can see the wider context that even LRH
never saw due to LRH's blindspots.
I highly highly recommend you stay up on the "cult" and new religious
movement groups, and since you ARE willing to be a free speaking
person about Scientology and Hubbard, that you connect with the people
who study Scientology from an academic viewpoint.
There was an ex OT, ex Sea Org member named Roger Straus, his little
article from a book is here: http://tinyurl.com/3yapa6
Roy Wallis' all time great book "The Road to Total Freedom" I think is
important to read, so you see the high level of scholarship that has
yet to be done on the history of the Scientology movement since 1977,
with the exceptions, I feel, of the Wikipedia articles which are all
excellent in my opinion.
You can reach out and make all these connections yourself, the
researchers are out there, doing their own feeble low level research
that of course doesn't amount to much, but eventually I hope since you
are so freely communicating, that you widen your connections to the
new generation of new researchers out there, who are just now learning
and starting to get interested in the Scientology phenomenon.
INFORM (UK cult watch group)
Suzanne Newcombe
Inform @ lse.ac.uk (remove the spaces when emailing)
Assistant Research Officer Inform
www.lse.ac.uk/collections/INFORM/
Best, Chuck
Sky Scout Jack Slutmuffin, Devangel
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
the whole world is full of whiney emotional children because....
mwhahhahahahaha wouldn't you like to know...
saint bubba, pastor of muppets
<jonatho...@ispname.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:39:03 -0700 (PDT), Yarnosh <yar...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>1) How does one, independent of the Church, get audited?
>
>There are two choices. One is to find another independent
>Scientologist and then co-audit.
are there personal lubricants, whipped cream, or dark chocolate
truffle sauces involved in a co-auditing? howzabout ELECTRODES?
big red straps????
i dunno. i always get the impression that scientologists are the types
that think wearing paisley socks underneath pinstripe pantses is bein
daring.
im betting that any auditing by a member of the church of the
subgenius is gonna be a whole lot more entertaining that anything your
crutch could pull off...even with tom cruise jumpin up and down on a
couch.
now, if he was making a helicopter noise and shakin the bed FOR ME
like one of those magic fingers beds you used to find in the cheap ass
middle o nowhere roadside motels in the seventies, you might just
convince me. but not if he gets to WATCH. thatd just be CREEPY.
someone should buy tom cruise a subgenius ministership. that way we
can stick all the thetans we manage to scrape up come xday and stick
em BACK ON HIM. fuck, id pay an extra thirty bucks to be ensured i
could watch him scratching himself raw trying to stop feeling so
UNCLEAN. im not saving his little wife though, that girl scares me.
st bubba
Don Stockbauer
> All I want to know is, how do you make a living from the
> stockmarket?
You can't. It's an artificially contrived worthless creation. Raise
cattle instead.