A moral crisis
Patty Pieniadz
things I have ever had to do. Less than 12 hours
ago I made a promise that I would not write this post.
Not because I was asked not to, but because at
that time, I didn't think I should. I've changed my
mind.
I did some soul searching and realized that
the only way out of this is to tell the truth and
decided that when faced with uncertainty and doubt,
tell the truth at all costs. It's the only way I saw
out of this mess.
It's taken me some time to sort it all out. 30 years
in Scn with lying and deceit being an almost
natural thing made it a bit more difficult. But
I found myself in the same predicament I had
when I was in the cult. That is, I was keeping silent
about some very unethical activities and my
silence was nothing more than a contribution to
that unethical behavior.
So I'm blowing the doors off it. People can
forgive, they can blame, they can say I told you
so. Honestly, I don't care. What I care about
is that I can not be part of a lie that has the
potential to harm a lot of people. I say potential
as I have no evidence that any harm has
actually occurred.
This matter concerns Emma, Roan, Andreas
and myself. Andreas is included only because
he has been lied to.
Emma and I have been friends for a few years. Very
close friends. We talked quite a bit and share many
similar views on things. Having an EX as a girlfriend
was really nice as we could share in other matters
as well.
Prior to Emma starting her board, one of the things Emma
and I liked to do was share info on who we thought was
who on OCMB and ars. Meaning we wondered what the
real names of some of the anon posters were on those
boards. Not because we were going to OUT them or
anything like that. It was just gossipy stuff and it was
mainly directed at people that we would get into flame
wars with.
It was all very teenagerish and should be known that I
was as much a part of it as Emma was. It wasn't
something that was done all the time, but occasionally
we'd get into it and try to figure out who was who.
I think it's probably pretty natural to want to know
who people are so you can figure out why
they hate you so much.
Anyway, about a year and a half ago I was one of the
people that encouraged Emma to start a message
board for Ex's.
Emma and I both felt that OCMB was too hostile a
place for people just leaving Scn, and it was so bad
that it would probably chase some of the newly
leaving people back into the cult.
Anyone who had anything positive to say
about the cult was attacked and called names.
Many of the posters on OCMB were completely
clueless as to how fragile people are when
the are trying to leave the cult, especially people
like myself who were in Scn for many many years
and for people who were in the most oppressive
part of Scn, i.e., the Sea Org,
Emma created ESMB with the hope that it would be
a safe place for a newly leaving Scios to meet up
with old time EX's and get some sane feedback.
I think she succeed swimmingly. It is a wonderful
board, but there is something else that needs to
be known.
About a year and a half ago, Emma and a poster over
on OCMB, named Roan started having a relationship.
Emma originally hated Roan and thought he was a
real creep, but then over time they started pming
each other and they became quite friendly.
Emma knew I thought Roan was a total piece of shit
but she felt that Roan was misunderstood.
She explained to me that Roan managed a theater
and that he liked to live in the real world but it was
OK for him to act and be someone else when he
posted. What Emma was trying to explain to me
is that Roan is not anything like the person he posts
as. He's really a very nice guy, he just posts mean
stuff because he can. But it's not really him.
He pretends and he wanted Emma to continue
pretending that they were adversaries on OCMB
and not let anyone know that they were in fact
starting a relationship.
I remember telling Emma this was all a bad idea,
red flags, out points, the works, but that I was
going to let her make her own decisions on things.
Time went by, I didn't talk to Emma much about Roan
because she knew I thought poorly of him and I didn't
want to harp on the situation.
In Feb of 2007 there was a vicious attack on me by
a poster named Ladybird. The attack came
the same day as my sister Wendy died. Emma
went ballistic and attempted to convince Arnie to
have the hateful post removed from his board before
I got to see it. Arnie refused. It kind of surprised me
that Arnie did this as he was always posting about how
certain people didn't have any compassion, and here
he was refusing to allow the post to be removed.
Emma begged him but he refused.
Ladybird continued to slime me at every opportunity.
In mid Oct of 2007 Emma made the following post to
her board.
This post was basically letting me and a few other
friends know that she realized what Roan was up to.
This post/thread has since been deleted from the ESMB
board.
BEGIN EMMA'S POST:
It's easy to tell who your true friends are really. They
are the ones that love you anyway, even when you
are being stupid, stubborn or even mean. They are
the ones who support you even though they don't like
what you are doing or think you are making a mistake.
They are the ones who are honest with you but never
nasty. They are the ones that let you make your own
mistakes and love you after you wake up.
I have friends like these. I'm so grateful for them.
Recently I befriended someone who I initially really
disliked. It was a strange turn of events that got us
talking and I think because we had some previous
disagreement, it gave us something to talk about,
even laugh about. My first impressions of this
person weren't positive at all but after talking with
them for a while I began to see some good in them
(so I thought). My real friends warned me about this "relationship", and
that they thought I should be
very careful. None of them tried to interfere
but they did make it subtly clear that they didn't
think it was positive for me, but I was of course
free to make my own decisions.
I was able to be honest with my friends because
they are good people. I never had to pretend
or hide this new friendship. On the other hand,
this new friend had to hide our new friendship
because of what they thought their friends might think.
Lesson number 1: Never stay in a friendship
where that person has to hide your existance
or even keep up the charade that they dislike
you just because of their friends prejudice.
Very recently a number of things happened that
caused alarm bells to ring in my head. Well actually
there were warning signs from day one that I
conveniently ignored but that's beside the point.
I began to realise that my initial feeling about
this person might actually have been correct
and I had been swayed by charm, wit and a
good ear (the EASIEST way to get a chick
by the way). I began to notice discrepancies
and inconsistancies and above all, the hypocrisy.
I began to feel in my gut that uneasy feeling but
I ignored it because it meant I would have to face
up to the fact that I'd been conned (again!).
Lesson number 2: Never ignore your gut
In the last few days came the final straw.
Finally the camels back was broken and my
eyes were opened. I have had to admit to myself
that I've been a fool and wasted a lot of time,
effort and energy on this person
who doesn't really give a hoot about me.
And what do my real friends say about this? Not
"I told you so!" or "You should have listened to me!"
but more along the lines of "Are you ok?
I'm here for you if you need me. I'm glad you've
made this decision"
Lesson number 3: Cherish your real friends
So I want to devote this thread to everyone who has
been a real friend to someone else. You never
know how much it is appreciated. Even though
your buddies might screw up from time to time,
real friends will continue to love them anyway,
even when they are being ridiculously dumb.
Like me!
I love you guys..you know who you are.
END OF EMMA'S POST
I was elated. Emma had come to realize that this Roan fella
was just a player and was playing her. I really try not to be
paranoid and think everyone is OSA but this guy Roan was
a manipulative guy that got my friend Emma to lie and act
in an unethical way, that is, pretending to be hostile to a guy
she actually adored, and he had her do this, because per
Emma, Roan felt that he would lose credibility with people
like Arnie Lerma and others over on OCMB if it was
known that they (Emma and Roan) were friends.
Per Emma Roan felt that Arnie Lerma and others
on the OCMB who might cut Roan off if he knew
he was in a relationship with Emma.
In the meantime, he elevated his position at OCMB
by becoming a moderator on that board.
My gut was doing the watusi, but I trusted Emma to
handle this the best way and come to her senses
and apparently, per the above post, she had.
In late Oct 2007 a person named CJK posted a slimy
post about me on OCMB. I talked to Emma about it and
Emma told me that CJK was actually the poster named
Ladybird. Ladybird had been banned by Andreas for
her failure to follow the rules of OCMB. Andreas had given
her many chances but she couldn't stop sliming people she
didn't like, and she did it all anonymously.
How did I know that CJK was Ladybird?
Because Emma told me that Roan, who is a
moderator over on OCMB looks at IP addresses
and told Emma that Ladybird was posting as CJK
and that Ladybird had several other sock puppets
including the nickname Antidote, who had also been
banned by Andreas.
Roan, a man who pretends to be someone he is not, gets to be
moderator at OCMB and is now sharing IP information with Emma.
My understanding was that the relationship with Emma
and Roan was over and that this was something
Roan had told Emma in the past. I wrote to
Andreas and told him that Ladybird was posting
as CJK and Andreas asked me how I knew that.
I told Andreas that his moderator Roan was gossiping
about people's IP addresses. I did not tell him the
information came from Emma. I thought at the time
that I should protect her.
Andreas then confronted Roan and asked him
if this were true.
Roan, a man with no moral compass denied doing it
and Andreas chose to believe him.
I then had a bit of a moral breakdown myself.
I had broken a trust with my friend Emma,
but I was also now aware that Roan and Emma
discussed IP addresses of people. I realized
that I too had been involved in these kinds of
discussions with Emma and never told her NO,
don't do that. It should be noted that Emma
never gossiped to me about people on her board.
She kept in her security and integrity on this,
but she did go through her logs on occasion
looking for people to get clues on their ID,
especially if they were unfriendly.
I was very upset and my head was swimming with what to do.
I contacted Emma and found out that she had deleted
the post made above and that Roan had not seen it.
She told me it was all a mistake and that Roan
was a good guy and that if I could only talk to him,
I would understand because when Roan explained it,
it all made so much sense as to why it was OK
for him to lie and pretend to be someone he was not.
My moral dilemma was do I now blow this open and break
ties with my good friend Emma who has been manipulated
and duped by Roan, or do I just keep quiet and make
peace with Emma and try to get her to see what is going
on here.
I made another mistake. I went to Emma and
apologized and said I should have discussed the
matter with her first. But in doing so, I came to
realize that I was deeply involved in covering up
something that should be made known.
OCMB and ESMB are not Message boards about
potty training or growing geraniums. People should
be able to go to either board and know with certainty
that their identity is protected.
To find out that a questionable character like Roan,
who's story is that he was in Scn for 2 years,
25 years ago, who shows up out of no where, and
gets himself in a position of moderator or
OCMB and then starts a relationship with the
owner of ESMB and starts sharing IP data with
her scared the shit out of me.
The more I looked at it, the more I realized how
awful a situation it was.
I stopped talking to Emma and tried to sort out what the best thing to
do was.
I started writing Emma a long private email to tell her about
my feelings and the more I wrote, the more responsible
I felt for knowing about this, participating in it and not doing
anything to stop it.
So I'm laying it out here now.
I suppose some of you will attempt to accuse me
of trying to destroy the boards. That is really the
last thing on my mind. Both boards are truly
needed and have helped many people.
But currently the lies and obfuscation going
on needs to stop. The games need to end.
People need to be able to go to those boards anonymously
and be protected from gossip and IP mining, even the
people we dislike and disagree with.
Scn does a lot of damage to people. The last thing we need
is people like Roan fucking with them by pretending to be something he's
not and lie and manipulating people
for some game that he is playing. I'm not saying Roan
is OSA. I'm not saying he's not OSA. But this story stinks
and I no longer want to protect or cover up the lies and
deceit I know about.
If Emma or Roan(who I've never talked to) would like to
discuss some of my "overts" or anything I have done
to endanger people or betray the trust of others,
then go right ahead. Being a scientology critic does in fact
require keeping secrets, but secrets shouldn't be kept
about unethical behavior. It also requires an integrity
of not betraying people we are trying to help. It requires
not sharing private information from Message Board logs
with others, no matter how much you trust them, but especially
to a manipulative guy like Roan.
These past few months have really taken it's toll on me.
This has been a horrible experience for me. But then
again, it's good because I was able to muster up the
courage and tell the truth about a very bad situation.
I'm sure I'm going to suffer through some more pain
on this one. But hey, such is life.
Patty
Quaoar
...another KR about someone slimed by your cabal's innuendo. You really
don't get the message: you are either IN Scientology, or OUT OF Scientology.
Posting your KR on ARS is disingenuous, to say the least. If you are
all about honesty and compassion, why don't you honestly and
compassionately tell the world at large why Patricia Greenway is
considered by your core friends as the 'be all and end all of
Scientology critics'?
You are a fraud and a charlatan.
Q
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>People need to be able to go to those boards anonymously
>and be protected from gossip and IP mining, even the
>people we dislike and disagree with.
<groan>
Sounds to me like the anonymities of some of the members have
*already* been seriously compromised by the moderators on esmb and
ocmb. Of course those boards are a perfect data-mining opportunity
for a cult.
It is vaguely reminiscent of what happened to CAN. Something good can
be turned evil by betrayal and lies.
The participants of those message boards need to know that their
identities may have been disclosed to other unknown entities without
their knowledge or approval.
And it wasn't that long ago that Emma was sending IRC logs to OSA, I
just found out.
Big ol' smelly mess!
Dennis
--------------
"And time will tell just who has fell,
And who's been left behind,
When you go your way and I go mine." - B Dylan
Quaoar
>
>
One. The other four will show up shortly.
Q
Rev Dennis L Erlich
<plonk>
Quaoar <qua...@marcabfleet.net> wrote:
-----------------
"The Rock You Stood Upon
Is Broken Up And Gone
Hey Baby, Who's Your Baby Now
On The Slipway Of Your Dream
Stands Someone Else's Scheme
Hey Baby, Who's Your Baby Now" - Mark Knopfler
Out_Of_The_Dark
There you go again........ Now go and PROVE that accusation about the
Emma & the LOGS.
Dave Touretzky
Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>There you go again........ Now go and PROVE that accusation about the
>Emma & the LOGS.
You can just ask Emma. She makes no secret of it. OSA was
blackmailing her at the time.
-- Dave
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>Hey, she admitted it herself here on ARS. Go find the article.
Yah, and if I understand correctly, she even included lies in her
public confession and the "admission" she passed on logs to the cult.
Tsk. Not good.
D
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>OSA was
>blackmailing her at the time.
Or so she claimed. Maybe it still is. It will certainly take some
time to sort thru all the lies that have been told by her and her
co-conspirator.
D
Quaoar
> Jeeze, enough of your twisted paranoia.
>
Plonk at your wish. The fact is that this KR is likely just what it
appears: a tear at the heart to support the idea that Roan is a bad
actor on OCMB.
1. Where is Emma? Why did SHE not post her 'confession' herself?
2. Where is Emma? If Roan was, in fact, accessing IP addresses, what
was Emma doing with the same information, as PP admits that she and Emma
were using IP addresses to covertly discover the name of OCMB posters?
This entire confession stinks because neither of the principals, Emma
and Roan (supposedly) posted the confession.
Who is 'good' and who is 'bad' in this scenario?
Justify your thoughts, if you can.
Q
Out_Of_The_Dark
> In article <ad40df11-1fae-474d-9d02-28b28f024...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >There you go again........ Now go and PROVE that accusation about the
> >Emma & the LOGS.
>
> You can just ask Emma. She makes no secret of it. OSA was
> blackmailing her at the time.
>
> -- Dave < <
Thank you Dave. I had no idea, as I don't follow ESMB stuff. I will
go look.
Out_Of_The_Dark
You got a reaction, aren't you satified?
Quaoar
Right, Emma was being blackmailed. You tell so many stories, Dave, that
sooner or later you are going to be tripped up by those same stories.
Besides, why should we ask Emma? Where is Emma; why is she not posting
her 'moral crisis', and why did she not post about her crisis first hand?
Q
Quaoar
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:38:00 -0800.
> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> With the Message-ID: <84m0o39jhrph7gjdf...@4ax.com>
> And the Organization Header: inFormer Ministry www.informer.org <ministry
> correspondence priviliged>.
> The famous author: Rev Dennis L Erlich <info...@informer.org>.
> Wrote on the subject: Re: A moral crisis:
>
>> "Patty Pieniadz" <ppie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> People need to be able to go to those boards anonymously
>>> and be protected from gossip and IP mining, even the
>>> people we dislike and disagree with.
>> <groan>
>>
>> Sounds to me like the anonymities of some of the members have
>> *already* been seriously compromised by the moderators on esmb and
>> ocmb. Of course those boards are a perfect data-mining opportunity
>> for a cult.
>>
>> It is vaguely reminiscent of what happened to CAN. Something good can
>> be turned evil by betrayal and lies.
>>
>> The participants of those message boards need to know that their
>> identities may have been disclosed to other unknown entities without
>> their knowledge or approval.
>>
>> And it wasn't that long ago that Emma was sending IRC logs to OSA, I
>> just found out.
>>
>> Big ol' smelly mess!
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>
>
> Wasn't it exactly this that Lerma warned about when Emma/Michelle created
> her message board? Wasn't it exactly that which made the split between
> her and Lerma even bigger?
>
> And now in the most strange and fucked up of ways, she and Lerma becomes
> friendly the same very fucking day we get to learn all this?
>
> Hell, I don't have much else to say, and had I been that alcoholic
> Michelle accused me of being, I would have emptied my bottle of Cognac
> right away. However since I don't need it, and don't feel for Cognac at
> 6AM, I won't do it :-)
>
> Holy crap...
>
> SAZ
>
Right, and now we have PP first hand forwarding her KR about Emma's
second hand KR, about Roan, who at this point is third hand.
It seems to me that Roan (who I do not know) is being slandered by both
PP and Emma, thus placing the latter two in the position of making the
first accusation, and we all know how difficult it is do be in the third
hand denial position.
Q
Muldoon
(several week long, now) most recent effort to frighten people and
create confusion, noise, and distraction.
It's NOT going to work.
Tom Klemesrud
Citation please.
realpch
>
> The writing of this post is one of the most difficult
> things I have ever had to do. Less than 12 hours
> ago I made a promise that I would not write this post.
>
> Not because I was asked not to, but because at
> that time, I didn't think I should. I've changed my
> mind.
>
> I did some soul searching and realized that
> the only way out of this is to tell the truth and
> decided that when faced with uncertainty and doubt,
> tell the truth at all costs. It's the only way I saw
> out of this mess.
<snip>
> I then had a bit of a moral breakdown myself.
> I had broken a trust with my friend Emma,
> but I was also now aware that Roan and Emma
> discussed IP addresses of people. I realized
> that I too had been involved in these kinds of
> discussions with Emma and never told her NO,
> don't do that. It should be noted that Emma
> never gossiped to me about people on her board.
> She kept in her security and integrity on this,
> but she did go through her logs on occasion
> looking for people to get clues on their ID,
> especially if they were unfriendly.
<snip>
Phew! So, I'm very glad to hear that you are not a mass murderer, child
torturer, or dog kicker.
> These past few months have really taken it's toll on me.
> This has been a horrible experience for me. But then
> again, it's good because I was able to muster up the
> courage and tell the truth about a very bad situation.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to suffer through some more pain
> on this one. But hey, such is life.
>
> Patty
Let's skip the pain. Lesson learned and all that. Moving right along...
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
moontaco
> Rev Dennis L Erlich wrote:
>
> > Jeeze, enough of your twisted paranoia.
>
> Plonk at your wish. The fact is that this KR is likely just what it
> appears: a tear at the heart to support the idea that Roan is a bad
> actor on OCMB.
>
> 1. Where is Emma? Why did SHE not post her 'confession' herself?
>
> 2. Where is Emma? If Roan was, in fact, accessing IP addresses, what
> was Emma doing with the same information, as PP admits that she and Emma
> were using IP addresses to covertly discover the name of OCMB posters?
I don't see anyplace where Patty admitted that. She said that she and
Emma gossiped about who they thought was who on OCMB and ARS. If she
said they were gossiping based in information from IP addresses,
please post her exact words and I'll look again.
Beth
Out_Of_The_Dark
> On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 20:42:19 -0800 (PST).
> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> With the Message-ID:
> And the Organization Header:http://groups.google.com.
> The famous author: Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com>.
> Wrote on the subject: Re: A moral crisis:
I couldn't find it and 3 other people emailed me asking me to for
help in finding it. How about you find it and post the link?
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
I think it important that ANYONE who is being anonymous, to step back
and look at life from the views of historians and really earth
civilization tradition.
I think NO ONE is gonna be faulted for their more minor errors in
life, and in this game of exposing Scientology.
The big subject is Hubbard's setup.
Hubbard's setup and factually taking the Hubbard setup to task, that's
the big issue.
People who participate in taking Hubbard's setup to task, my hats are
off to everyone.
I accept all the smearing, the criticism, etc.
I chose to post with my name and suffer the consequences.
People who get their anonymity exposed are NOT going to lose in the
long run!
I say people ought to more be identifiable, and speak freely, openly,
with labels of who they are.
That is the simplest way to go.
I find it easier to keep track of people, and I prefer relationships
with people who are that transparent about who they are.
Chuck Beatty
roger gonnet
I trust Andreas for sure.
Since day one that Emma announced she opened that new private forum, I
protested, reminding even that I was not sharing Andreas' taste for OCMB
(even if many important things have been said there).
It's no surprise that OSA can (or tries) to infiltrate. It does the same
here as well. Miscavieg is a psychopath paranoïd like his mentor was, and
can't refrain committing lots of the stupid things which have provoked
scientology bad reputation since 1950.
So, we have to advice publicly people to contact only the most evident
critics through their websites, and keep off our hands of ECMB etc. That
would avoid such episodes.
I've myself been visited/contacted/quiestioned by scientologists annnouncing
they were no longer in, or such. What's the problem? And what was , to start
with, the interest of private discussions lists? That can even be done on
msn !
r
Emma
"Patty Pieniadz" <ppie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5uavv4F...@mid.individual.net...
> The writing of this post is one of the most difficult
> things I have ever had to do. Less than 12 hours
> ago I made a promise that I would not write this post.
>
> Not because I was asked not to, but because at
> that time, I didn't think I should. I've changed my
> mind.
>
> I did some soul searching and realized that
> the only way out of this is to tell the truth and
> decided that when faced with uncertainty and doubt,
> tell the truth at all costs. It's the only way I saw
> out of this mess.
>
LOL! After 12 hours of crisis meetings at the Buttersquash headquarters you
opted for the "heartfelt approach". Nice. That does manage to fool some of
the people some of the time. But really, I'm a little disappointed
considering the "great minds" that must of gotten together to concoct this
story, this is the best you could come up with. So the story unfolds.....
>
> It's taken me some time to sort it all out. 30 years
> in Scn with lying and deceit being an almost
> natural thing made it a bit more difficult. But
> I found myself in the same predicament I had
> when I was in the cult. That is, I was keeping silent
> about some very unethical activities and my
> silence was nothing more than a contribution to
> that unethical behavior.
>
> So I'm blowing the doors off it. People can
> forgive, they can blame, they can say I told you
> so. Honestly, I don't care. What I care about
> is that I can not be part of a lie that has the
> potential to harm a lot of people. I say potential
> as I have no evidence that any harm has
> actually occurred.
>
> This matter concerns Emma, Roan, Andreas
> and myself. Andreas is included only because
> he has been lied to.
OOhh.....so you decide to give this charade another run. Didn't you already
try this with Andreas once before? Stop & think a little bit Patty. If there
were any substance to your lie do you honestly think Andreas would still
have Roan as a moderator? I know for a fact that Andreas looked into this
and found your accusations baseless.
>
> Emma and I have been friends for a few years. Very
> close friends. We talked quite a bit and share many
> similar views on things. Having an EX as a girlfriend
> was really nice as we could share in other matters
> as well.
Well you can well & truly close that chapter.
With friends like you, who the hell needs enemies?
>
> Prior to Emma starting her board, one of the things Emma
> and I liked to do was share info on who we thought was
> who on OCMB and ars. Meaning we wondered what the
> real names of some of the anon posters were on those
> boards. Not because we were going to OUT them or
> anything like that. It was just gossipy stuff and it was
> mainly directed at people that we would get into flame
> wars with.
>
> It was all very teenagerish and should be known that I
> was as much a part of it as Emma was. It wasn't
> something that was done all the time, but occasionally
> we'd get into it and try to figure out who was who.
> I think it's probably pretty natural to want to know
> who people are so you can figure out why
> they hate you so much.
They hated us so much because we belonged to another group who was just as
insane and possibly MORE nasty than Scientology. You laugh & make jokes
about the evil gypsy, but you and I both know how close to the mark some
posters actually get when describing how she has her hand squarely up your
ass and makes your mouth move.
>
> Anyway, about a year and a half ago I was one of the
> people that encouraged Emma to start a message
> board for Ex's.
>
> Emma and I both felt that OCMB was too hostile a
> place for people just leaving Scn, and it was so bad
> that it would probably chase some of the newly
> leaving people back into the cult.
>
> Anyone who had anything positive to say
> about the cult was attacked and called names.
> Many of the posters on OCMB were completely
> clueless as to how fragile people are when
> the are trying to leave the cult, especially people
> like myself who were in Scn for many many years
> and for people who were in the most oppressive
> part of Scn, i.e., the Sea Org,
>
> Emma created ESMB with the hope that it would be
> a safe place for a newly leaving Scios to meet up
> with old time EX's and get some sane feedback.
> I think she succeed swimmingly. It is a wonderful
> board, but there is something else that needs to
> be known.
Nice one. Compliment the board to give the apparency of measured thinking
then launch right into the DA attack. That's a PASS!
>
> About a year and a half ago, Emma and a poster over
> on OCMB, named Roan started having a relationship.
> Emma originally hated Roan and thought he was a
> real creep, but then over time they started pming
> each other and they became quite friendly.
Yeah I did. I also made friends with numerous others who'd I had baseless
arguments with based SOLEY on the rumour & innuendo generated from a certain
group. I wasn't thinking for myself & I managed to completely embarrass
myself with my own stupidity. Fortunately some people were able to see the
trap I'd fallen into and were quite forgiving.
Recently I mended the same fence with Arnie. After taking a break from the
constant bombardment of anti Arnieism from the likes of you & Greenway I was
able to see for myself that Arnie isn't a bad person. It was HE who threw
out the olive branch recently after having the decency to admit he was wrong
about me and ESMB. It was with some relief that I took up that olive branch
and ended a baseless fued.
>
> Emma knew I thought Roan was a total piece of shit
> but she felt that Roan was misunderstood.
Yeah I knew you thought that BUT I SHOULD have known that my feelings and
judgements about a person mean nothing to you when they don't fit the
"groups" agenda. I know why you hate Roan. It was because he DARED to
question Patricia Greenway on that Profit messageboard. All he did was ask
some clever questions to basically debunk her ridiculous posts about that
fucking movie. She was horrified. I know this because she tried to rip me an
new asshole because I defended his right to free speech. Something both you
& PG say you believe in but quite clearly do not.
>
> She explained to me that Roan managed a theater
> and that he liked to live in the real world but it was
> OK for him to act and be someone else when he
> posted. What Emma was trying to explain to me
> is that Roan is not anything like the person he posts
> as. He's really a very nice guy, he just posts mean
> stuff because he can. But it's not really him.
You are really spinning it now. I said to you many times that a person's
posting style & who they are in real life can be completely different and
that I found Roan to fit that category. It is YOU who have to put the
consipitorial spin on things.
>
> He pretends and he wanted Emma to continue
> pretending that they were adversaries on OCMB
> and not let anyone know that they were in fact
> starting a relationship.
Bullshit. All I ever said was that what happens outside a messageboard has
nothing to do with the messageboard and that we are all entitled to our
privacy. If you care to read OCMB from February last year there is no
"pretending". Roan & I simply stopped attacking each other on OCMB except
for the odd (attempted) humerous jab.
>
> I remember telling Emma this was all a bad idea,
> red flags, out points, the works, but that I was
> going to let her make her own decisions on things.
Oh thank you very much. How grateful I am. I am a big girl now and I'm glad
you recognise it.
>
> Time went by, I didn't talk to Emma much about Roan
> because she knew I thought poorly of him and I didn't
> want to harp on the situation.
Because you could NEVER allow me to have friends that didn't meet your
approval - could you!
>
> In Feb of 2007 there was a vicious attack on me by
> a poster named Ladybird. The attack came
> the same day as my sister Wendy died. Emma
> went ballistic and attempted to convince Arnie to
> have the hateful post removed from his board before
> I got to see it. Arnie refused. It kind of surprised me
> that Arnie did this as he was always posting about how
> certain people didn't have any compassion, and here
> he was refusing to allow the post to be removed.
> Emma begged him but he refused.
>
> Ladybird continued to slime me at every opportunity.
>
> In mid Oct of 2007 Emma made the following post to
> her board.
>
> This post was basically letting me and a few other
> friends know that she realized what Roan was up to.
>
>
> This post/thread has since been deleted from the ESMB
> board.
>
> BEGIN EMMA'S POST:
>
> It's easy to tell who your true friends are really. They
> are the ones that love you anyway, even when you
> are being stupid, stubborn or even mean. They are
> the ones who support you even though they don't like
> what you are doing or think you are making a mistake.
> They are the ones who are honest with you but never
> nasty. They are the ones that let you make your own
> mistakes and love you after you wake up.
>
> I have friends like these. I'm so grateful for them.
>
>
> Recently I befriended someone who I initially really
> disliked. It was a strange turn of events that got us
> talking and I think because we had some previous
> disagreement, it gave us something to talk about,
> even laugh about. My first impressions of this
> person weren't positive at all but after talking with
> them for a while I began to see some good in them
> (so I thought). My real friends warned me about this "relationship", and
> that they thought I should be
> very careful. None of them tried to interfere
> but they did make it subtly clear that they didn't
> think it was positive for me, but I was of course
> free to make my own decisions.
>
>
> I was able to be honest with my friends because
> they are good people. I never had to pretend
> or hide this new friendship. On the other hand,
> this new friend had to hide our new friendship
> because of what they thought their friends might think.
>
> Lesson number 1: Never stay in a friendship
> where that person has to hide your existance
> or even keep up the charade that they dislike
> you just because of their friends prejudice.
>
> Very recently a number of things happened that
> caused alarm bells to ring in my head. Well actually
> there were warning signs from day one that I
> conveniently ignored but that's beside the point.
> I began to realise that my initial feeling about
> this person might actually have been correct
> and I had been swayed by charm, wit and a
> good ear (the EASIEST way to get a chick
> by the way). I began to notice discrepancies
> and inconsistancies and above all, the hypocrisy.
> I began to feel in my gut that uneasy feeling but
> I ignored it because it meant I would have to face
> up to the fact that I'd been conned (again!).
>
>
> Lesson number 2: Never ignore your gut
>
> In the last few days came the final straw.
> Finally the camels back was broken and my
> eyes were opened. I have had to admit to myself
> that I've been a fool and wasted a lot of time,
> effort and energy on this person
> who doesn't really give a hoot about me.
>
> And what do my real friends say about this? Not
> "I told you so!" or "You should have listened to me!"
> but more along the lines of "Are you ok?
> I'm here for you if you need me. I'm glad you've
> made this decision"
>
> Lesson number 3: Cherish your real friends
>
> So I want to devote this thread to everyone who has
> been a real friend to someone else. You never
> know how much it is appreciated. Even though
> your buddies might screw up from time to time,
> real friends will continue to love them anyway,
> even when they are being ridiculously dumb.
> Like me!
>
> I love you guys..you know who you are.
>
> END OF EMMA'S POST
This was a huge mistake on my part and one I never dreamed you would throw
back in my face like this. The reason I took it down (almost immediately)
was that it was too personal to be on a MB. If I thought you couldn't sink
any lower before this point I will now admit to myself that I was wrong
about you - again.
>
>
> I was elated. Emma had come to realize that this Roan fella
> was just a player and was playing her. I really try not to be
> paranoid and think everyone is OSA but this guy Roan was
> a manipulative guy that got my friend Emma to lie and act
> in an unethical way, that is, pretending to be hostile to a guy
> she actually adored, and he had her do this, because per
> Emma, Roan felt that he would lose credibility with people
> like Arnie Lerma and others over on OCMB if it was
> known that they (Emma and Roan) were friends.
> Per Emma Roan felt that Arnie Lerma and others
> on the OCMB who might cut Roan off if he knew
> he was in a relationship with Emma.
>
What rubbish. Have you ever heard of personal privacy? We are both entitled
to it. The biggest mistake I ever made was sharing my personal life with
you. You've been threatening to do this for weeks now and I knew that
eventually you just couldn't help yourself, despite your continued
assurances that we were still friends and I could trust you with my private
life.You are a liar and you betray people. The second biggest mistake I made
was to believe you when you tried to make me think Roan was an arsehole,
rather than believe Roan when he continually told me you were not to be
trusted.
> In the meantime, he elevated his position at OCMB
> by becoming a moderator on that board.
>
> My gut was doing the watusi, but I trusted Emma to
> handle this the best way and come to her senses
> and apparently, per the above post, she had.
>
> In late Oct 2007 a person named CJK posted a slimy
> post about me on OCMB. I talked to Emma about it and
> Emma told me that CJK was actually the poster named
> Ladybird. Ladybird had been banned by Andreas for
> her failure to follow the rules of OCMB. Andreas had given
> her many chances but she couldn't stop sliming people she
> didn't like, and she did it all anonymously.
>
> How did I know that CJK was Ladybird?
> Because Emma told me that Roan, who is a
> moderator over on OCMB looks at IP addresses
> and told Emma that Ladybird was posting as CJK
> and that Ladybird had several other sock puppets
> including the nickname Antidote, who had also been
> banned by Andreas.
Heh. Nice try at this DA attempt again Patty. CJK was signing her fucking
name as Ladybird for weeks. It was quite clear to everyone that they were
the same person. She didn't even try to hide it. You didn't need IP
addresses to work that one out. Umike had "outed" Antidote as Ladybird
years ago. Besides, Andreas has already checked out this rumour you started
and found it to be a pack of lies.
>
> Roan, a man who pretends to be someone he is not, gets to be
> moderator at OCMB and is now sharing IP information with Emma.
What exactly has he pretended to be?
Maybe you can answer me this. Roan has always sided with Ladybird against
you. That's one reason you hate him. So why would he be sharing HER IP
address with me KNOWING that you & I were friends. Roan is many things but
stupid isn't one of them.
>
> My understanding was that the relationship with Emma
> and Roan was over and that this was something
> Roan had told Emma in the past. I wrote to
> Andreas and told him that Ladybird was posting
> as CJK and Andreas asked me how I knew that.
>
> I told Andreas that his moderator Roan was gossiping
> about people's IP addresses. I did not tell him the
> information came from Emma. I thought at the time
> that I should protect her.
>
> Andreas then confronted Roan and asked him
> if this were true.
>
> Roan, a man with no moral compass denied doing it
> and Andreas chose to believe him.
Andreas didn't just believe him, he checked it out thoroughly and found your
information to be nothing but a lie. Roan is STILL a moderator on OCMB. Why
would Andreas allow this if Roan was doing what you say he is doing?
>
> I then had a bit of a moral breakdown myself.
> I had broken a trust with my friend Emma,
> but I was also now aware that Roan and Emma
> discussed IP addresses of people. I realized
> that I too had been involved in these kinds of
> discussions with Emma and never told her NO,
> don't do that. It should be noted that Emma
> never gossiped to me about people on her board.
> She kept in her security and integrity on this,
> but she did go through her logs on occasion
> looking for people to get clues on their ID,
> especially if they were unfriendly.
I'm the fucking MODERATOR! My God you clueless fucking twit, have you no
idea what it takes to keep & run a board troll & op free? You make it sound
like doing my job is some sort of crime.
>
> I was very upset and my head was swimming with what to do.
> I contacted Emma and found out that she had deleted
> the post made above and that Roan had not seen it.
> She told me it was all a mistake and that Roan
> was a good guy and that if I could only talk to him,
> I would understand because when Roan explained it,
> it all made so much sense as to why it was OK
> for him to lie and pretend to be someone he was not.
Again, this "something he is not" What the FUCK are you talking about? Was
he supposed to declare his undying loyalty to you and Greenway because you
were my friend? Gimme a break. Actually give yourself a break and get some
decent exit counselling.
>
> My moral dilemma was do I now blow this open and break
> ties with my good friend Emma who has been manipulated
> and duped by Roan, or do I just keep quiet and make
> peace with Emma and try to get her to see what is going
> on here.
What you have done is violated my confidences regarding my personal life,
intruded into my personal life with your personal bulldozing style, posted
about my personal life on the internet (something you promised me over &
over you would never do) and shown me what a vile piece of valueless trash
you actually are.
>
> I made another mistake. I went to Emma and
> apologized and said I should have discussed the
> matter with her first. But in doing so, I came to
> realize that I was deeply involved in covering up
> something that should be made known.
Oh FFS. Covering up what? What EXACTLY has occurred here. Where is your
proof of any of this? You are just sliming me because I dared stand up to
you earlier and wouldn't fall back into the buttersquash lockstep. Thank
fucking GOD I am clear of that now.
>
> OCMB and ESMB are not Message boards about
> potty training or growing geraniums. People should
> be able to go to either board and know with certainty
> that their identity is protected.
>
Back up your accusations. Where have I outed anyone or violated ANYONE'S
trust you filthy sliming bitch.
> To find out that a questionable character like Roan,
> who's story is that he was in Scn for 2 years,
> 25 years ago, who shows up out of no where, and
> gets himself in a position of moderator or
> OCMB and then starts a relationship with the
> owner of ESMB and starts sharing IP data with
> her scared the shit out of me.
>
> The more I looked at it, the more I realized how
> awful a situation it was.
>
> I stopped talking to Emma and tried to sort out what the best thing to do
> was.
No, What really happened is that you went back to your cabal and dicussed
what would be the best revenge against me for standing up to you and also
mending fences with the dreaded Arnie Lerma. Dissent will not be tolerated.
Did you write this post or did Patricia? Enquiring minds would like to know.
Actually I'm surprised it didn't come from an anonymous remailer like your
usual sliming does. Don't get me started on THAT little hobby of yours.
>
> I started writing Emma a long private email to tell her about
> my feelings and the more I wrote, the more responsible
> I felt for knowing about this, participating in it and not doing
> anything to stop it.
>
> So I'm laying it out here now.
Rather than deal with me personally, you and the gang have decided that I
need to be taught a lesson. What fine people you are.
>
> I suppose some of you will attempt to accuse me
> of trying to destroy the boards. That is really the
> last thing on my mind. Both boards are truly
> needed and have helped many people.
> But currently the lies and obfuscation going
> on needs to stop. The games need to end.
Yes indeed the games need to end, and they end right now. As of today
NOTHING about you remains confidential. I hope you are ready to face that.
> People need to be able to go to those boards anonymously
> and be protected from gossip and IP mining, even the
> people we dislike and disagree with.
Yes they do and they certainly don't need people like you with your personal
vendettas, starting rumous about the safety of them to get back at an old
friend. I don't know how you fucking sleep at night you malicious lying
bitch.
>
> Scn does a lot of damage to people.
You are proof positive of that.
>The last thing we need
> is people like Roan fucking with them by pretending to be something he's
> not and lie and manipulating people
> for some game that he is playing. I'm not saying Roan
> is OSA. I'm not saying he's not OSA. But this story stinks
> and I no longer want to protect or cover up the lies and
> deceit I know about.
Again you go on about the "something that he's not". WTF are you talking
about? You've said this over and over to try to make it true but never say
what you are referring to. People are smarter than this Patty. You may not
be because it's what Patricia does to you every fucking day and you refuse
to see it.
>
>
> If Emma or Roan(who I've never talked to) would like to
> discuss some of my "overts" or anything I have done
> to endanger people or betray the trust of others,
> then go right ahead. Being a scientology critic does in fact
> require keeping secrets, but secrets shouldn't be kept
> about unethical behavior. It also requires an integrity
> of not betraying people we are trying to help. It requires
> not sharing private information from Message Board logs
> with others, no matter how much you trust them, but especially
> to a manipulative guy like Roan.
First there are no "Message Board logs". There are posts and posters IP
addresses and email addresses. You were my most trusted friend so if I was
ever going to send "logs" to anyone it would have been you. Did I? Did I
ever send you a list of IP addresses or email addresses or anything from the
AWstats that would give away anyone's location? Well did I? If I did then
produce the email. Prove these allegations.
>
> These past few months have really taken it's toll on me.
> This has been a horrible experience for me. But then
> again, it's good because I was able to muster up the
> courage and tell the truth about a very bad situation.
You poor thing. It must have been so hard on you to have to live with such a
burden. You told me yourself that you had some kind of a mental breakdown a
month ago. That you needed to go back to the shrink to get your meds
checked. I think it's high time you made that appointment.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to suffer through some more pain
> on this one. But hey, such is life.
>
> Patty
>
No pain, only the truth Patty.
It is time.
- Emma
Magoo
"Patty Pieniadz" <ppie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5uavv4F...@mid.individual.net...
> The writing of this post is one of the most difficult
> things I have ever had to do. Less than 12 hours
> ago I made a promise that I would not write this post.
>
> Not because I was asked not to, but because at
> that time, I didn't think I should. I've changed my
> mind.
>
> I did some soul searching and realized that
> the only way out of this is to tell the truth and
> decided that when faced with uncertainty and doubt,
> tell the truth at all costs. It's the only way I saw
> out of this mess.
>
>
> in Scn with lying and deceit being an almost
> natural thing made it a bit more difficult. But
> I found myself in the same predicament I had
> when I was in the cult. That is, I was keeping silent
> about some very unethical activities and my
> silence was nothing more than a contribution to
> that unethical behavior.
Good plan to strip this off.
>
> So I'm blowing the doors off it. People can
> forgive, they can blame, they can say I told you
> so. Honestly, I don't care. What I care about
> is that I can not be part of a lie that has the
> potential to harm a lot of people. I say potential
> as I have no evidence that any harm has
> actually occurred.
>
> This matter concerns Emma, Roan, Andreas
> and myself. Andreas is included only because
> he has been lied to.
>
> Emma and I have been friends for a few years. Very
> close friends. We talked quite a bit and share many
> similar views on things. Having an EX as a girlfriend
> was really nice as we could share in other matters
> as well.
>
> Prior to Emma starting her board, one of the things Emma
> and I liked to do was share info on who we thought was
> who on OCMB and ars. Meaning we wondered what the
> real names of some of the anon posters were on those
> boards. Not because we were going to OUT them or
> anything like that. It was just gossipy stuff and it was
> mainly directed at people that we would get into flame
> wars with.
So this *was* the Flying Monkey Routine, I've written about,
eh? Thanks for admitting it. Did you make this post over on
OCMB? Please do---people need to know this as you're talking
about it, here.
>
> It was all very teenagerish and should be known that I
> was as much a part of it as Emma was. It wasn't
> something that was done all the time, but occasionally
> we'd get into it and try to figure out who was who.
> I think it's probably pretty natural to want to know
> who people are so you can figure out why
> they hate you so much.
>
> Anyway, about a year and a half ago I was one of the
> people that encouraged Emma to start a message
> board for Ex's.
>
> Emma and I both felt that OCMB was too hostile a
> place for people just leaving Scn, and it was so bad
> that it would probably chase some of the newly
> leaving people back into the cult.
Now it feels like you're trashing OCMB, without mentioning
that it's changed there, quite a bit. (Much of it, because the
Flying Monkeys have mostly gone over to Emmas board now).
To those here, this probably doesn't make sense, but to we ON
OCMB____Yup, it makes great sense.
>
> Anyone who had anything positive to say
> about the cult was attacked and called names.
> Many of the posters on OCMB were completely
> clueless as to how fragile people are when
> the are trying to leave the cult, especially people
> like myself who were in Scn for many many years
> and for people who were in the most oppressive
> part of Scn, i.e., the Sea Org,
Well----there's 2 sides to that coin, but I'll leave it, for now.
(Mainly, yes! People are sensative, however, you and Emma would show up, run
this attack on people, so yes, people would get pissed at you 2).
>
> Emma created ESMB with the hope that it would be
> a safe place for a newly leaving Scios to meet up
> with old time EX's and get some sane feedback.
> I think she succeed swimmingly. It is a wonderful
> board, but there is something else that needs to
> be known.
>
> About a year and a half ago, Emma and a poster over
> on OCMB, named Roan started having a relationship.
> Emma originally hated Roan and thought he was a
> real creep, but then over time they started pming
> each other and they became quite friendly.
>
> Emma knew I thought Roan was a total piece of shit
> but she felt that Roan was misunderstood.
>
> She explained to me that Roan managed a theater
> and that he liked to live in the real world but it was
> OK for him to act and be someone else when he
> posted. What Emma was trying to explain to me
> is that Roan is not anything like the person he posts
> as. He's really a very nice guy, he just posts mean
> stuff because he can. But it's not really him.
I've met Roan in person, and oddly enough, I agree with her:
HE *is* quite different in person than his posting persona.
So much so, that I often forget "Roan" Is the person he is.
>
> He pretends and he wanted Emma to continue
> pretending that they were adversaries on OCMB
> and not let anyone know that they were in fact
> starting a relationship.
That is plain weird.
>
> I remember telling Emma this was all a bad idea,
> red flags, out points, the works, but that I was
> going to let her make her own decisions on things.
>
> Time went by, I didn't talk to Emma much about Roan
> because she knew I thought poorly of him and I didn't
> want to harp on the situation.
>
?????????? Now that's just strange...sorry, but it is.
>
> Lesson number 1: Never stay in a friendship
> where that person has to hide your existance
> or even keep up the charade that they dislike
> you just because of their friends prejudice.
Agreed.
ly a number of things happened that
> caused alarm bells to ring in my head. Well actually
> there were warning signs from day one that I
> conveniently ignored but that's beside the point.
> I began to realise that my initial feeling about
> this person might actually have been correct
> and I had been swayed by charm, wit and a
> good ear (the EASIEST way to get a chick
> by the way). I began to notice discrepancies
> and inconsistancies and above all, the hypocrisy.
> I began to feel in my gut that uneasy feeling but
> I ignored it because it meant I would have to face
> up to the fact that I'd been conned (again!).
Damn!
Lesson number 2: Never ignore your gut
>
> In the last few days came the final straw.
> Finally the camels back was broken and my
> eyes were opened. I have had to admit to myself
> that I've been a fool and wasted a lot of time,
> effort and energy on this person
> who doesn't really give a hoot about me.
There's a great book called "Blink"--_Great book, read it.
I'm not sure why, but as I type, things below are erasing: DOH!
ok?
> I'm here for you if you need me. I'm glad you've
> made this decision"
>
> Lesson number 3: Cherish your real friends
>
> So I want to devote this thread to everyone who has
> been a real friend to someone else. You never
> know how much it is appreciated. Even though
> your buddies might screw up from time to time,
> real friends will continue to love them anyway,
> even when they are being ridiculously dumb.
> Like me!
d. Emma had come to realize that this Roan fella
> was just a player and was playing her. I really try not to be
> paranoid and think everyone is OSA but this guy Roan was
> a manipulative guy that got my friend Emma to lie and act
> in an unethical way, that is, pretending to be hostile to a guy
> she actually adored, and he had her do this, because per
> Emma, Roan felt that he would lose credibility with people
> like Arnie Lerma and others over on OCMB if it was
> known that they (Emma and Roan) were friends.
> Per Emma Roan felt that Arnie Lerma and others
> on the OCMB who might cut Roan off if he knew
> he was in a relationship with Emma.
>
> In the meantime, he elevated his position at OCMB
> by becoming a moderator on that board.
>
> My gut was doing the watusi, but I trusted Emma to
> handle this the best way and come to her senses
> and apparently, per the above post, she had.
>
> In late Oct 2007 a person named CJK posted a slimy
> post about me on OCMB. I talked to Emma about it and
> Emma told me that CJK was actually the poster named
> Ladybird. Ladybird had been banned by Andreas for
> her failure to follow the rules of OCMB. Andreas had given
> her many chances but she couldn't stop sliming people she
> didn't like, and she did it all anonymously.
>
> How did I know that CJK was Ladybird?
> Because Emma told me that Roan, who is a
> moderator over on OCMB looks at IP addresses
> and told Emma that Ladybird was posting as CJK
> and that Ladybird had several other sock puppets
> including the nickname Antidote, who had also been
> banned by Andreas.
>
> Roan, a man who pretends to be someone he is not, gets to be
> moderator at OCMB and is now sharing IP information with Emma.
>
> My understanding was that the relationship with Emma
> and Roan was over and that this was something
> Roan had told Emma in the past. I wrote to
> Andreas and told him that Ladybird was posting
> as CJK and Andreas asked me how I knew that.
>
> I told Andreas that his moderator Roan was gossiping
> about people's IP addresses. I did not tell him the
> information came from Emma. I thought at the time
> that I should protect her.
>
> Andreas then confronted Roan and asked him
> if this were true.
>
> Roan, a man with no moral compass denied doing it
> and Andreas chose to believe him.
>
> I then had a bit of a moral breakdown myself.
> I had broken a trust with my friend Emma,
> but I was also now aware that Roan and Emma
> discussed IP addresses of people. I realized
> that I too had been involved in these kinds of
> discussions with Emma and never told her NO,
> don't do that. It should be noted that Emma
> never gossiped to me about people on her board.
> She kept in her security and integrity on this,
> but she did go through her logs on occasion
> looking for people to get clues on their ID,
> especially if they were unfriendly.
>
> I was very upset and my head was swimming with what to do.
> I contacted Emma and found out that she had deleted
> the post made above and that Roan had not seen it.
> She told me it was all a mistake and that Roan
> was a good guy and that if I could only talk to him,
> I would understand because when Roan explained it,
> it all made so much sense as to why it was OK
> for him to lie and pretend to be someone he was not.
>
> My moral dilemma was do I now blow this open and break
> ties with my good friend Emma who has been manipulated
> and duped by Roan, or do I just keep quiet and make
> peace with Emma and try to get her to see what is going
> on here.
>
> I made another mistake. I went to Emma and
> apologized and said I should have discussed the
> matter with her first. But in doing so, I came to
> realize that I was deeply involved in covering up
> something that should be made known.
>
> OCMB and ESMB are not Message boards about
> potty training or growing geraniums. People should
> be able to go to either board and know with certainty
> that their identity is protected.
>
> To find out that a questionable character like Roan,
> who's story is that he was in Scn for 2 years,
> 25 years ago, who shows up out of no where, and
> gets himself in a position of moderator or
> OCMB and then starts a relationship with the
> owner of ESMB and starts sharing IP data with
> her scared the shit out of me.
And Emma is a person who turned in the logs of IRC to OSA---
as recently as last year. She told me this on the phone.
She was "blackmailed"? Blackmail *is* against the law. Let's get into
this, if true. Who asked her to send them? What's the E-mail?
What exactly did they say, re "blackmail"? If you don't want to
post it here, Emma, which I understand, PLEASE talk to the FBI
and let them know ALL of the specifics, as that IS against the law.
Sorry---below continues to erase, anyone know how I can stop "That"?
I think I figured it out, after---but in the meantime, any time I typed
here- things below me would erase. Sorry.
n my mind. Both boards are truly
> needed and have helped many people.
> But currently the lies and obfuscation going
> on needs to stop. The games need to end.
>
> People need to be able to go to those boards anonymously
> and be protected from gossip and IP mining, even the
> people we dislike and disagree with.
>
> Scn does a lot of damage to people. The last thing we need
> is people like Roan fucking with them by pretending to be something he's
> not and lie and manipulating people
> for some game that he is playing. I'm not saying Roan
> is OSA. I'm not saying he's not OSA. But this story stinks
> and I no longer want to protect or cover up the lies and
> deceit I know about.
>
>
> If Emma or Roan(who I've never talked to) would like to
> discuss some of my "overts" or anything I have done
> to endanger people or betray the trust of others,
> then go right ahead. Being a scientology critic does in fact
> require keeping secrets, but secrets shouldn't be kept
> about unethical behavior. It also requires an integrity
> of not betraying people we are trying to help. It requires
> not sharing private information from Message Board logs
> with others, no matter how much you trust them, but especially
> to a manipulative guy like Roan.
Or Emma---who sent the logs to OSA!
y taken it's toll on me.
> This has been a horrible experience for me. But then
> again, it's good because I was able to muster up the
> courage and tell the truth about a very bad situation.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to suffer through some more pain
> on this one. But hey, such is life.
>
> Patty
As much as I'd like to just blow this off---it's heavy, very heavy.
Like I said, I've met Roan--and he IS quite different than the person who
posts. What's that about? I don't know.
Why Emma Sent ANY IRC logs to OSA? Blackmail IS against the law:
Will someone please step up to the plate and report this?
Lastly, what about PG, the backchannel queen? Why IS it Ok for she
to slime other critics, when NONE of us get to hear what is said, and stand
up for ourselves? That is soooooooooooooo Scientology! Do you understand how
destructive *that* is? This is a good start, for sure.
I hope you truly look at this like an onion, just like when we left
Scientology, and peel it ALL off.
For me, the onion went like this:
HOLY SHIT: IT'S A CON!!!
Damn, DM is a dick!
Oh my Goodness----Hubbard was a dick too.
And on, and on, as the lies strip off.
As much as this may hurt some people--in the end,
The truth shall set you free :)
My very best,
Tory/Magoo~~
PS: And if anyone knows what key I pressed that erases the things
below ....please post it here, and thanks!
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
anonymous, and proceeding to be transparant and clear about one's
motives for criticizing Scientology.
Douglas E. Cowan, new religious movement scholar, stated:
"...none of Scientology's most trenchant Internet critics operate
anonymously; for the most part, they are very clear about who they
are
and why they do what they do."
- Douglas E Cowan, page 267, "RELIGION ONLINE: Finding Faith on the
Internet", Routledge, 2004.
I urge people post openly with their names!
Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (ex members call me anytime!)
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://tinyurl.com/295khy
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
Magoo
"chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:377e6036-3bb1-429f...@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Actually, I think it better to consider the benefits of NOT being
> anonymous, and proceeding to be transparant and clear about one's
> motives for criticizing Scientology.
Well, you know you and I (and many others) are on the same page,
re that. However, I do understand *some* people who have families
"in" and would lose too much (they feel) to come out.
I still say it's better to just be yourself----no matter what. As Andreas
said to me:"What kind of friends (or family) could they be, if they're going
to leave you because you changed your mind?"
An **excellent** point, eh?
All the best :)
Tory/Magoo~~~
Burbank, CA
(818) 588-3044
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
> "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckbeatt...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:377e6036-3bb1-429f...@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Actually, I think it better to consider the benefits of NOT being
> > anonymous, and proceeding to be transparant and clear about one's
> > motives for criticizing Scientology.
>
> Well, you know you and I (and many others) are on the same page,
> re that. However, I do understand *some* people who have families
> "in" and would lose too much (they feel) to come out.
>
> I still say it's better to just be yourself----no matter what. As Andreas
> said to me:"What kind of friends (or family) could they be, if they're going
> to leave you because you changed your mind?"
> An **excellent** point, eh?
>
> All the best :)
>
> Tory/Magoo~~~
> Burbank, CA
> (818) 588-3044
>
>
>
Agreed.
I think going public is a good thing.
For existing members and ex members alike.
People in life, who publish their ideas, and let academia bore into
their ideas, do so transparently.
People will mature when they get beyond their fears as citizens to
stand publicly by their views!
Condemning the leaking of anonymous people's identities is
overstressed when one looks at the bigger longer range picture.
Tell me WHO have been "ruined" by being "outed?"
The anonymous people outed who then are forcefully disconnected from
by their Scientology co-workers or family or friends, that is
unfortunate and life changing.
Your family with disconnect.
What's more important though?
I think being a normal citizen, and NOT fear telling your views and
being like normal citizens is the right course.
Scientology's Hubbard's rules are anti normal citizenry rights.
So why put up with the totalitarian aspects of the Scientology/Hubbard
setup?
I think honestly such people who are still connected with Scientology
family who emotionally hold the blackmail disconnection card over
their heads ought to take the higher character course in life and
realistically plan for the eventual outcome of being disconnected with
and being shunned by official Scientologists.
I think people should just make the transition to transparency.
I don't know of anyone who made that transition from anonymous forum
poster to outed forum poster who in hindsight laments that decision to
go transparent?
Do you?
Best, Chuck
Magoo
Agreed.
Your family with disconnect.
Do you?
No, I don't. It ***seems*** Like it will be a HUGE leap---just like leaving
Scientology
SEEMS like it shall be huge. However, when I did it----at the time I FELT
Like
I was standing on a mountain top about 1,000 feet up. At the bottom was a
small
sign that said:
"IF YOU LEAP_____You ***MIGHT*** MAKE IT"
I made the "huge leap"---and realized it was about as difficult as literally
walking
across a street, crossing over a line in the middle of the street. (all of
the Fear
is mental).
For speaking out---it only gave me strength, and I think that's true for all
who I've
spoken to, especially those who have fully come out.
Take back your lives: USE YOUR FREE SPEECH :) :)
My best to you, Chuck,
Tory/Magoo~~~~
Best, Chuck
Magoo
"Emma" <emm...@bonbon.net> wrote in message
news:5ubeiuF...@mid.individual.net...
Isn't it *amazing* how one person can literally change your life?
(I'm referring to Roan helping you SEE things you weren't seeing).
There's a great book called "The Power of ONE", and I cannot
suggest it enough.
I'm sorry to see this has sunk SO low---much of it seems like it should have
been done via phone---but then, I'm sure there's LOTS
more that *I* don't know. Friendships are wonderful when they're great, but
when people are running them through a 3rd party machine (PG)--who needs
friends like that?
It IS time--time for all to LOOK at why *anyone* would buy such crap about
known good critics. What is it that keeps that group of people thinking
they're so "elite"---So better than others---talking together, shunning
others, making fun of others, and NO ONE saying *a* thing?
This IS exactly what the CULT of Scientology teaches.
I wish you well---both of you: you should get some serious help.
That's not a put down, you're near that place that helps strip
off cult think: Well Spring. Ever think of going there?
I know people who have, and they got great results from it.
Either way, take care. Try not to hurt each other, any more than you have
already.....that won't help either of you.
Tory/Magoo~~~
>
>
>
Dave Touretzky
Quaoar <qua...@marcabfleet.net> wrote:
>
> Right, Emma was being blackmailed. You tell so many stories, Dave,
> that sooner or later you are going to be tripped up by those same
> stories.
Well, that was Emma's story, not mine. As you and Dennis both
correctly point out, we have no independent verification of Emma's
claim. And we probably won't have any until Mike Rinder's
deprogramming is further along.
> Besides, why should we ask Emma? Where is Emma; why is she not posting
> her 'moral crisis', and why did she not post about her crisis first hand?
I have no idea. I'm not part of her group, I don't read her board, I
knew nothing about any of this controversy until I saw Patty's post
yesterday, and I can't say I care terribly much.
-- Dave
Patty Pieniadz
> "Patty Pieniadz" <ppie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5uavv4F...@mid.individual.net...
>> The writing of this post is one of the most difficult
>> things I have ever had to do. Less than 12 hours
>> ago I made a promise that I would not write this post.
>>
>> Not because I was asked not to, but because at
>> that time, I didn't think I should. I've changed my
>> mind.
>>
>> I did some soul searching and realized that
>> the only way out of this is to tell the truth and
>> decided that when faced with uncertainty and doubt,
>> tell the truth at all costs. It's the only way I saw
>> out of this mess.
>>
>
> LOL! After 12 hours of crisis meetings at the Buttersquash
> headquarters you opted for the "heartfelt approach". Nice. That does
> manage to fool some of the people some of the time. But really, I'm a
> little disappointed considering the "great minds" that must of gotten
> together to concoct this story, this is the best you could come up
> with. So the story unfolds.....
Go ahead, you and Roan can stick to your story and
deny everything. Talk about being influenced by others.
This guy has had you bamboozled from the start.
>
>>
>> It's taken me some time to sort it all out. 30 years
>> in Scn with lying and deceit being an almost
>> natural thing made it a bit more difficult. But
>> I found myself in the same predicament I had
>> when I was in the cult. That is, I was keeping silent
>> about some very unethical activities and my
>> silence was nothing more than a contribution to
>> that unethical behavior.
>>
>> So I'm blowing the doors off it. People can
>> forgive, they can blame, they can say I told you
>> so. Honestly, I don't care. What I care about
>> is that I can not be part of a lie that has the
>> potential to harm a lot of people. I say potential
>> as I have no evidence that any harm has
>> actually occurred.
>>
>> This matter concerns Emma, Roan, Andreas
>> and myself. Andreas is included only because
>> he has been lied to.
>
> OOhh.....so you decide to give this charade another run. Didn't you
> already try this with Andreas once before? Stop & think a little bit
> Patty. If there were any substance to your lie do you honestly think
> Andreas would still have Roan as a moderator? I know for a fact that
> Andreas looked into this and found your accusations baseless.
You have become a shameless liar.
>
>>
>> Emma and I have been friends for a few years. Very
>> close friends. We talked quite a bit and share many
>> similar views on things. Having an EX as a girlfriend
>> was really nice as we could share in other matters
>> as well.
>
> Well you can well & truly close that chapter.
>
> With friends like you, who the hell needs enemies?
You and Roan both moderate a Board with very fragile
people. Both of you look and discuss IP address. My moral
dilemma came when you became blinded by
Roan's bullshit and you couldn't see your way out of it.
You were one of my best friends Emma, you betrayed
a lot of people and saw nothing wrong with it. I did
not want to be "keeping secrets" with you, just like
I did when I was in Scn. Truth about the situation was
more important to me than our friendship.
>>
>> Prior to Emma starting her board, one of the things Emma
>> and I liked to do was share info on who we thought was
>> who on OCMB and ars. Meaning we wondered what the
>> real names of some of the anon posters were on those
>> boards. Not because we were going to OUT them or
>> anything like that. It was just gossipy stuff and it was
>> mainly directed at people that we would get into flame
>> wars with.
>>
>> It was all very teenagerish and should be known that I
>> was as much a part of it as Emma was. It wasn't
>> something that was done all the time, but occasionally
>> we'd get into it and try to figure out who was who.
>> I think it's probably pretty natural to want to know
>> who people are so you can figure out why
>> they hate you so much.
>
> They hated us so much because we belonged to another group who was
> just as insane and possibly MORE nasty than Scientology. You laugh &
> make jokes about the evil gypsy, but you and I both know how close to
> the mark some posters actually get when describing how she has her
> hand squarely up your ass and makes your mouth move.
Yes, I am a puppet of the evil gypsy queen.
>
>
>>
>> Anyway, about a year and a half ago I was one of the
>> people that encouraged Emma to start a message
>> board for Ex's.
>>
>> Emma and I both felt that OCMB was too hostile a
>> place for people just leaving Scn, and it was so bad
>> that it would probably chase some of the newly
>> leaving people back into the cult.
>>
>> Anyone who had anything positive to say
>> about the cult was attacked and called names.
>> Many of the posters on OCMB were completely
>> clueless as to how fragile people are when
>> the are trying to leave the cult, especially people
>> like myself who were in Scn for many many years
>> and for people who were in the most oppressive
>> part of Scn, i.e., the Sea Org,
>>
>> Emma created ESMB with the hope that it would be
>> a safe place for a newly leaving Scios to meet up
>> with old time EX's and get some sane feedback.
>> I think she succeed swimmingly. It is a wonderful
>> board, but there is something else that needs to
>> be known.
>
> Nice one. Compliment the board to give the apparency of measured
> thinking then launch right into the DA attack. That's a PASS!
Stop pretending this information isn't true. Lies and obfuscation on
your part have to stop.
>
>
>>
>> About a year and a half ago, Emma and a poster over
>> on OCMB, named Roan started having a relationship.
>> Emma originally hated Roan and thought he was a
>> real creep, but then over time they started pming
>> each other and they became quite friendly.
>
> Yeah I did. I also made friends with numerous others who'd I had
> baseless arguments with based SOLEY on the rumour & innuendo
> generated from a certain group. I wasn't thinking for myself & I
> managed to completely embarrass myself with my own stupidity.
> Fortunately some people were able to see the trap I'd fallen into and
> were quite forgiving.
A man named Roan comes out of nowhere and starts posting to OCMB. He
becomes your lover but insists you never tell
anyone about your relationship as he does not want others to know about
it. He works in a theatre, he knows all about acting,
he tells you that both of you should pretend to hate each other
on OCMB. You go along because this con man has lied and
tricked you. He shares IP info with you on OCMB.
Don't come here and try to put this off on me. You
should have just keep your mouth shut for a few days
and then come to your senses and publicly apologized
for your lies and deceit. Instead, you act like a bratty
lying teenager and try to cover your track with more
lies and misdirection. That man Roan did a real number
on your head Emma, wake the fuck up.
>
> Recently I mended the same fence with Arnie. After taking a break
> from the constant bombardment of anti Arnieism from the likes of you
> & Greenway I was able to see for myself that Arnie isn't a bad
> person. It was HE who threw out the olive branch recently after
> having the decency to admit he was wrong about me and ESMB. It was
> with some relief that I took up that olive branch and ended a
> baseless fued.
Good for you. Now maybe you can own up to your lies
and start the new year off on a good foot.
>
>
>>
>> Emma knew I thought Roan was a total piece of shit
>> but she felt that Roan was misunderstood.
>
> Yeah I knew you thought that BUT I SHOULD have known that my feelings
> and judgements about a person mean nothing to you when they don't fit
> the "groups" agenda. I know why you hate Roan. It was because he
> DARED to question Patricia Greenway on that Profit messageboard. All
> he did was ask some clever questions to basically debunk her
> ridiculous posts about that fucking movie. She was horrified. I know
> this because she tried to rip me an new asshole because I defended
> his right to free speech. Something both you & PG say you believe in
> but quite clearly do not.
Roan is a trouble maker. He's a liar. He just posted yesterday
another lie about Ailill posting on your board.
You told me Ailill was in fact Roan himself and Roan was just being a
sock puppet. The guy is no fucking good. You can
attack me and Patricia and Rob and anyone else you'd like
to but the facts are that you are in bed with a fraud and a liar
and probably an OSA agent.
>
>>
>> She explained to me that Roan managed a theater
>> and that he liked to live in the real world but it was
>> OK for him to act and be someone else when he
>> posted. What Emma was trying to explain to me
>> is that Roan is not anything like the person he posts
>> as. He's really a very nice guy, he just posts mean
>> stuff because he can. But it's not really him.
>
> You are really spinning it now. I said to you many times that a
> person's posting style & who they are in real life can be completely
> different and that I found Roan to fit that category. It is YOU who
> have to put the consipitorial spin on things.
Nope, Roan wanted you to pretend to act like you hated
each other, he wanted to hide your relationship so that Arnie
and others on OCMB would not think less of him for being with
you. Why you allowed him to do that to you is beyond me
at this point. The closer I look at Roan the more he looks like
a well placed OSA op. He lies and he got you to agree to
those lies. He mines the OCMB message board for IP
data, as do you on ESMB.
I knew about it and kept silent and it just ate at me. Sorry
you disagree with how I chose to handle it, sorry that
you now have to try to turn this into some kind of
buttersquash conspiracy to cover your ass.
>
>>
>> He pretends and he wanted Emma to continue
>> pretending that they were adversaries on OCMB
>> and not let anyone know that they were in fact
>> starting a relationship.
>
> Bullshit. All I ever said was that what happens outside a
> messageboard has nothing to do with the messageboard and that we are
> all entitled to our privacy. If you care to read OCMB from February
> last year there is no "pretending". Roan & I simply stopped attacking
> each other on OCMB except for the odd (attempted) humerous jab.
>
Rationalize it however you want. You were involved in the betrayal of
two boards. It's too bad you can't see it.
>>
>> I remember telling Emma this was all a bad idea,
>> red flags, out points, the works, but that I was
>> going to let her make her own decisions on things.
>
> Oh thank you very much. How grateful I am. I am a big girl now and
> I'm glad you recognise it.
>
>>
>> Time went by, I didn't talk to Emma much about Roan
>> because she knew I thought poorly of him and I didn't
>> want to harp on the situation.
>
> Because you could NEVER allow me to have friends that didn't meet your
> approval - could you!
>
LOL! Don't be silly and try to project some kind of bullshit
lies like that on me. "NEVER allow you to have friends that
didn't meet your approval." You have tons of friends. I never
interfered with any of your friends. The only person that did not meet
my approval was Roan and only because he was a liar and a fake, and I
told you right from the start how I felt about him.
That's what friends do. You even admitted it in the post you
wrote to ESMB and then removed.
You posted it because you came to realize that Roan was a liar
and master manipulator. Did you unrealize this?
>
>>
>>
>> I was elated. Emma had come to realize that this Roan fella
>> was just a player and was playing her. I really try not to be
>> paranoid and think everyone is OSA but this guy Roan was
>> a manipulative guy that got my friend Emma to lie and act
>> in an unethical way, that is, pretending to be hostile to a guy
>> she actually adored, and he had her do this, because per
>> Emma, Roan felt that he would lose credibility with people
>> like Arnie Lerma and others over on OCMB if it was
>> known that they (Emma and Roan) were friends.
>> Per Emma Roan felt that Arnie Lerma and others
>> on the OCMB who might cut Roan off if he knew
>> he was in a relationship with Emma.
>>
>
> What rubbish. Have you ever heard of personal privacy?
Yes I am all for personal privacy, especially the privacy
of newly ex scio's that are going to OCMB and ESMB
and having their IP addresses discussed with a liar
like Roan.
We are both
> entitled to it. The biggest mistake I ever made was sharing my
> personal life with you. You've been threatening to do this for weeks
> now and I knew that eventually you just couldn't help yourself,
> despite your continued assurances that we were still friends and I
> could trust you with my private life.
I have not threaten it at all. You kept asking me NOT to say anything
publicly. You kept mentioning it and worrying about it.
I kept agreeing that I would not, until I realized that you had
pulled me into your lies and deception that Roan had worked
on you. I wanted no part of it.
You are a liar and you betray
> people. The second biggest mistake I made was to believe you when you
> tried to make me think Roan was an arsehole, rather than believe Roan
> when he continually told me you were not to be trusted.
Well apparently Roan's little OP worked. You have a lot
of nerve telling me I'm not the one to be trusted when
you have a history of betrayal that I have forgiven.
Congradulatons Gavino and Roan. You're little op worked
and now you have Emma working for you and she doesn't
even know it and can't see it. Good op.
How can you live with yourself telling these lies.
One day, when you come to your senses, I'll will
once again forgive you for your idiot behavior.
>>
>> Roan, a man who pretends to be someone he is not, gets to be
>> moderator at OCMB and is now sharing IP information with Emma.
>
> What exactly has he pretended to be?
>
> Maybe you can answer me this. Roan has always sided with Ladybird
> against you. That's one reason you hate him. So why would he be
> sharing HER IP address with me KNOWING that you & I were friends.
> Roan is many things but stupid isn't one of them.
More lies, more obfuscation. OSA trademark.
>
>>
>> My understanding was that the relationship with Emma
>> and Roan was over and that this was something
>> Roan had told Emma in the past. I wrote to
>> Andreas and told him that Ladybird was posting
>> as CJK and Andreas asked me how I knew that.
>>
>> I told Andreas that his moderator Roan was gossiping
>> about people's IP addresses. I did not tell him the
>> information came from Emma. I thought at the time
>> that I should protect her.
>>
>> Andreas then confronted Roan and asked him
>> if this were true.
>>
>> Roan, a man with no moral compass denied doing it
>> and Andreas chose to believe him.
>
> Andreas didn't just believe him, he checked it out thoroughly and
> found your information to be nothing but a lie. Roan is STILL a
> moderator on OCMB. Why would Andreas allow this if Roan was doing
> what you say he is doing?
If it was a lie then it was a lie to YOU that you then passed on to me.
>
>
>>
>> I then had a bit of a moral breakdown myself.
>> I had broken a trust with my friend Emma,
>> but I was also now aware that Roan and Emma
>> discussed IP addresses of people. I realized
>> that I too had been involved in these kinds of
>> discussions with Emma and never told her NO,
>> don't do that. It should be noted that Emma
>> never gossiped to me about people on her board.
>> She kept in her security and integrity on this,
>> but she did go through her logs on occasion
>> looking for people to get clues on their ID,
>> especially if they were unfriendly.
>
> I'm the fucking MODERATOR! My God you clueless fucking twit, have you
> no idea what it takes to keep & run a board troll & op free? You make
> it sound like doing my job is some sort of crime.
It's amazing how you scream and yell and carry on
to cover your ass and cover your lies. Actually,
it's not amazing, it's disgusting.
>
>
>>
>> I was very upset and my head was swimming with what to do.
>> I contacted Emma and found out that she had deleted
>> the post made above and that Roan had not seen it.
>> She told me it was all a mistake and that Roan
>> was a good guy and that if I could only talk to him,
>> I would understand because when Roan explained it,
>> it all made so much sense as to why it was OK
>> for him to lie and pretend to be someone he was not.
>
> Again, this "something he is not" What the FUCK are you talking
> about? Was he supposed to declare his undying loyalty to you and
> Greenway because you were my friend? Gimme a break. Actually give
> yourself a break and get some decent exit counselling.
Lies and misdirection. Go for it Emma!
>
>>
>> My moral dilemma was do I now blow this open and break
>> ties with my good friend Emma who has been manipulated
>> and duped by Roan, or do I just keep quiet and make
>> peace with Emma and try to get her to see what is going
>> on here.
>
> What you have done is violated my confidences regarding my personal
> life, intruded into my personal life with your personal bulldozing
> style, posted about my personal life on the internet (something you
> promised me over & over you would never do) and shown me what a vile
> piece of valueless trash you actually are.
It was not an easy decision for me. I know I had made promises
to you. But I came to realize I made promises to cover your lies
and to cover for Roan who is probably an OSA op.
When you told me that Roan told you that he looked at the IP addresses
on Andreas' Board and that Ladybird was also
CJK and Antidote, I got a huge feeling of dread and have
been dealing with that dread. I had to confront the fact that
you had been taken in by a real pro and manipulated to lie
and cover up. If this were a board about quilting, I'd let it
go, but this is about Scn, about cultic conditioning, about
OSA trying to worm their way into the critic community
and causing destruction of friendships and trust.
Your man Roan fit the bill to a tee. I'm sorry you can't
see that right now, hopefully someday you will.
>
>
>>
>> I made another mistake. I went to Emma and
>> apologized and said I should have discussed the
>> matter with her first. But in doing so, I came to
>> realize that I was deeply involved in covering up
>> something that should be made known.
>
> Oh FFS. Covering up what? What EXACTLY has occurred here. Where is
> your proof of any of this? You are just sliming me because I dared
> stand up to you earlier and wouldn't fall back into the buttersquash
> lockstep. Thank fucking GOD I am clear of that now.
Liar.
>
>>
>> OCMB and ESMB are not Message boards about
>> potty training or growing geraniums. People should
>> be able to go to either board and know with certainty
>> that their identity is protected.
>>
>
> Back up your accusations. Where have I outed anyone or violated
> ANYONE'S trust you filthy sliming bitch.
Read what I wrote.
>
>
>> To find out that a questionable character like Roan,
>> who's story is that he was in Scn for 2 years,
>> 25 years ago, who shows up out of no where, and
>> gets himself in a position of moderator or
>> OCMB and then starts a relationship with the
>> owner of ESMB and starts sharing IP data with
>> her scared the shit out of me.
>>
>> The more I looked at it, the more I realized how
>> awful a situation it was.
>>
>> I stopped talking to Emma and tried to sort out what the best thing
>> to do was.
>
> No, What really happened is that you went back to your cabal and
> dicussed what would be the best revenge against me for standing up to
> you and also mending fences with the dreaded Arnie Lerma. Dissent
> will not be tolerated.
LOL! You know that's not true. The fact that this creep Roan
has filled your head with lies that you agreed to is not surprising to
me.
>
> Did you write this post or did Patricia? Enquiring minds would like
> to know.
I wrote this post. And you know it.
>
> Actually I'm surprised it didn't come from an anonymous remailer like
> your usual sliming does. Don't get me started on THAT little hobby of
> yours.
Ok, should we now tell all the truth Emma? Should we
talk about all the lies?
I have nothing on it. You want to out me again? Go for it.
I should have known it would have turned out like this
after you betrayed me to OSA the first time. Lying,
deceiving, betraying your friends is not new to you.
Should we discuss logs to OSA and the lies that
were told to cover your ass?
I forgave you the first time, I suppose if you ever
realize what you've done this time, I'll forgive you again.
I'm ready to tell the truth about it. Are you?
>
>
>>
>> I started writing Emma a long private email to tell her about
>> my feelings and the more I wrote, the more responsible
>> I felt for knowing about this, participating in it and not doing
>> anything to stop it.
>>
>> So I'm laying it out here now.
>
> Rather than deal with me personally, you and the gang have decided
> that I need to be taught a lesson. What fine people you are.
You're dubbing in because you've been caught lying and not
taking any kind of responsibility for it.
>
>>
>> I suppose some of you will attempt to accuse me
>> of trying to destroy the boards. That is really the
>> last thing on my mind. Both boards are truly
>> needed and have helped many people.
>> But currently the lies and obfuscation going
>> on needs to stop. The games need to end.
>
> Yes indeed the games need to end, and they end right now. As of today
> NOTHING about you remains confidential. I hope you are ready to face
> that.
Give it your best shot. If you tell the truth about any of my
behavior that you feel is unethical, I will admit up to it, not
try to lie my way out of it.
>
>
>> People need to be able to go to those boards anonymously
>> and be protected from gossip and IP mining, even the
>> people we dislike and disagree with.
>
> Yes they do and they certainly don't need people like you with your
> personal vendettas, starting rumous about the safety of them to get
> back at an old friend. I don't know how you fucking sleep at night
> you malicious lying bitch.
Call me names, it's Ok, I know you've been afraid it was
all going to come out, and it has. It will all blow over after
awhile, and in the meantime, Roan will hopefully be looked at
with a lot of caution.
>
>>
>> Scn does a lot of damage to people.
>
> You are proof positive of that.
Yep, that's very true. At least I'll admit it.
>
>>The last thing we need
>> is people like Roan fucking with them by pretending to be something
>> he's not and lie and manipulating people
>> for some game that he is playing. I'm not saying Roan
>> is OSA. I'm not saying he's not OSA. But this story stinks
>> and I no longer want to protect or cover up the lies and
>> deceit I know about.
>
> Again you go on about the "something that he's not". WTF are you
> talking about? You've said this over and over to try to make it true
> but never say what you are referring to. People are smarter than this
> Patty. You may not be because it's what Patricia does to you every
> fucking day and you refuse to see it.
Lies and misdirection to cover your ass.
>
>
>>
>>
>> If Emma or Roan(who I've never talked to) would like to
>> discuss some of my "overts" or anything I have done
>> to endanger people or betray the trust of others,
>> then go right ahead. Being a scientology critic does in fact
>> require keeping secrets, but secrets shouldn't be kept
>> about unethical behavior. It also requires an integrity
>> of not betraying people we are trying to help. It requires
>> not sharing private information from Message Board logs
>> with others, no matter how much you trust them, but especially
>> to a manipulative guy like Roan.
>
> First there are no "Message Board logs". There are posts and posters
> IP addresses and email addresses. You were my most trusted friend so
> if I was ever going to send "logs" to anyone it would have been you.
> Did I? Did I ever send you a list of IP addresses or email addresses
> or anything from the AWstats that would give away anyone's location?
> Well did I? If I did then produce the email. Prove these allegations.
>
I refer to IP logs. The last conversation we had on google talk
you sat at your computer looking thru your IP logs to see if you
you figure out which one might be Ladybird. You told me
you knew what city she lived in because Roan had told you
from looking at her IP address on Clambake.
Try blaming Patricia Greenway for that.
>>
>> These past few months have really taken it's toll on me.
>> This has been a horrible experience for me. But then
>> again, it's good because I was able to muster up the
>> courage and tell the truth about a very bad situation.
>
> You poor thing. It must have been so hard on you to have to live with
> such a burden. You told me yourself that you had some kind of a
> mental breakdown a month ago. That you needed to go back to the
> shrink to get your meds checked. I think it's high time you made that
> appointment.
I understand why you attack me Emma. You are very entrenched
in the critic community and you have a reputation to uphold. You
have a place of trust and you violated it and want to cover your ass so
you attack me.
It's ok, I expect it. It would have been nice if you just owned up
to your shit and apolgized and moved on, but unfortunately,
you're not going to do that.
>>
>> I'm sure I'm going to suffer through some more pain
>> on this one. But hey, such is life.
>>
>> Patty
>>
>
> No pain, only the truth Patty.
>
> It is time.
Bring it on, girl. I'm ready. Are you?
Patty
>
> - Emma
Eldon
> "Patty Pieniadz" <ppieni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Sounds like the insert/overwrite key that toggles back and forth. Not
sure where it is on your keyboard, though.
Emma
If there was one way to stop the success of ESMB & OCMB how would someone go
about doing that?
Ops on the boards don't work well. That's been proven.
Spam doesn't work. The posts just get deleted.
Probably the only way would be to create enough doubt and enough innuendo
about the ethics of the owners or moderators that it would simply scare
people away.
Good job Patty.
I hope you earned some brownie points.
Arnie, you were dead right.
For the record: The only thing I was ever worried about being made public
was my private life. I feel I have the right to privacy outside this critic
community.
My previous posts stands and will continue to stand no matter how much
further drivel you wish to spill.
Eldon
Well, I can name one -- LRH. Posthumously, at least, he became a
laughingstock, and his org became a social pariah once his mental
illness and malice became public knowledge. Xenu's reputation was
ruined too, once it became obvious that he was a figment of LRH's drug-
addled imagination.
However, I see one possible advantage to anonymous posting.
Scientology will waste one hell of a lot of resources in trying to
figure out a person's identity. This distracts them from more harmful
activities.
Patty Pieniadz
"Magoo" <mag...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ON%fj.182$Xn2...@newsfe05.lga...
>
> As much as I'd like to just blow this off---it's heavy, very heavy.
> Like I said, I've met Roan--and he IS quite different than the person
> who > posts. What's that about? I don't know.
>
> Why Emma Sent ANY IRC logs to OSA? Blackmail IS against the law:
> Will someone please step up to the plate and report this?
It was not blackmail. That's just another of Emma's lies to cover her
ass. Emma was working for Gavino Idda while on IRC channel. She was
passing logs for him and in exchange he
was going to take care of her ethics situation and restore her
to good standing. The only problem was that Emma became
friends with me and realized that that she was betraying me
and others on IRC.
She confessed it to me after OSA put up my RFW page. She
felt completely responsible because she had outed me to
Gavino as Cerridwen. She was distraught and completely
remorseful. I forgave her as I understand how evil Scn is
and how they manipulate people. Emma was a friend, she
came to her senses and I forgave her. But then we did the
wrong thing. We concocted a lie together to cover her ass
and posted it to ars.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/eeb720b15cc29c5d
>
> Lastly, what about PG, the backchannel queen? Why IS it Ok for she
> to slime other critics, when NONE of us get to hear what is said, and
> stand up for ourselves? That is soooooooooooooo Scientology! Do you
> understand how destructive *that* is? This is a good start, for sure.
Patricia rarely goes to the IRC channel, I know you think she
is the WHO behind all this, because she disrepected you and
gave her opinion about you that you feel are lies.
Roan bad mouthed you also to Emma, who repeated it to me.
Emma has done it, I've done it. We're all guilty of talking shit
about you and others. The only difference is Patricia got logged
and posted.
I'm sure Gavino was really pissed at Emma for betraying him
and making him look bad to his seniors. It makes sense to
me, having worked in OSA Ops for 14 years that they would
send a guy like Roan in to wiggle his way into position of
moderator at OCMB and to sweet talk Emma into more
lying and deceit. OSA has Emma's folders they know all
her buttons. Roan played her like a piano.
>
>
> I hope you truly look at this like an onion, just like when we left
> Scientology, and peel it ALL off.
>
Yep. For me it's all about stop the lying. I did too much of that
while I was in Scn. If Emma wants to discuss any lies I've told
she is free to bring it up. I only hope she also takes responsiblity
for covering them up.
Happy New Year Tory.
Patty
Patty Pieniadz
>
> Isn't it *amazing* how one person can literally change your life?
> (I'm referring to Roan helping you SEE things you weren't seeing).
> There's a great book called "The Power of ONE", and I cannot
> suggest it enough.
I know you have problems with PG, tory, but don't be so quick
to buy Roan's bullshit. Read all the facts, get all the info. Roan
is more than likely an OSA op, who Gavino sent in to get back
at Emma.
Remember how OSA works. They are sneaky and have been
sending in ops to destroy critics for a long time.
PG had nothing to do with Roan and Emma's lies and deceit.
They did that themselves.
Patty
Emma
ROFLMAO!
Emma
I lied in that post to cover YOUR ASS. I wanted to come clean but you were
worried about being outed as Cerridwen. It wasn't my ass we were trying to
cover at that stage - it was yours. I was ready to tell the whole truth -
about everything, but you didn't want to hand Gavino the truth. I guess
you've gone & done it now.
I would never have lied about that unless you asked me to. You could at
LEAST tell the truth about that.
Emma
And since when is making threats to reveal your dark dirty past in the
internet *not* blackmail?
Thats what I was up against & you know it.
Why the fuck are you doing this?
Patty Pieniadz
> news:5uc1keF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> I lied in that post to cover YOUR ASS. I wanted to come clean but you
> were worried about being outed as Cerridwen. It wasn't my ass we were
> trying to cover at that stage - it was yours. I was ready to tell the
> whole truth - about everything, but you didn't want to hand Gavino the
> truth. I guess you've gone & done it now.
>
> I would never have lied about that unless you asked me to. You could
> at LEAST tell the truth about that.
Nope. Not true. It was a mutual lie that we did together. You wrote
the post
it was your words, I agreed to it. Neither of us wanted to be outed.
I didn't want to be outed as Cerridwen, but really already had been
because
of your actions, and you didn't want to be outed as the OSA dupe that
you were.
We both lied. Take some responsiblity for crying out loud and stop
blaming
everyone else.
Patty
>
>
Patty Pieniadz
That makes no sense. You had already outed me as Cerridwen. The proof
was right there on the RFW site.
It wasn't my ass we were trying to
>> cover at that stage - it was yours. I was ready to tell the whole
>> truth - about everything, but you didn't want to hand Gavino the
>> truth. I guess you've gone & done it now.
You threatened to out me again on your first reply to me. I decided
to just tell the truth, no matter how much it might hurt. You should
try
it sometimes, it causes a lot of relief.
>>
>> I would never have lied about that unless you asked me to. You could
>> at LEAST tell the truth about that.
Heh.
>>
>
> And since when is making threats to reveal your dark dirty past in the
> internet *not* blackmail?
Oh there were threats? This is a new lie for you. You never told me
that.
You told me a different story at that time. Something about getting
all those Board of Investigations cleaned up and you restored to good
standing.
>
> Thats what I was up against & you know it.
You're lying Emma.
>
> Why the fuck are you doing this?
Because I'm sick of being part of your lies. You can't even see it
right now.
Hopefully some day you will.
Drag it all out Emma, I'm willing to admit to any fuck up shit I've
done.
Are YOU?
I guess not. It's all someone's fault and now you are playing to the
crowd and trying to blame the evil gypsy queen for your fucking
behavior.
Knock it off, grow up and fucking stop lying and blaming others for
your shit.
Patty
>
>
Eldon
> "Emma" <emmm...@bonbon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:5uc295F...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > "Patty Pieniadz" <ppieni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:5uc1keF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> > I lied in that post to cover YOUR ASS. I wanted to come clean but you
> > were worried about being outed as Cerridwen. It wasn't my ass we were
> > trying to cover at that stage - it was yours. I was ready to tell the
> > whole truth - about everything, but you didn't want to hand Gavino the
> > truth. I guess you've gone & done it now.
>
> > I would never have lied about that unless you asked me to. You could
> > at LEAST tell the truth about that.
>
> Nope. Not true. It was a mutual lie that we did together. You wrote
> the post
> it was your words, I agreed to it. Neither of us wanted to be outed.
>
> I didn't want to be outed as Cerridwen, but really already had been
> because
> of your actions, and you didn't want to be outed as the OSA dupe that
> you were.
>
> We both lied. Take some responsiblity for crying out loud and stop
> blaming
> everyone else.
>
> Patty
>
May I suggest that this catfight is sounding... well, a little bit
hysterical, paranoid and redundant? Why don't you both take some nice
psych meds, magnesium and B-complex? Then have a nice cup of Chamomile
tea and get some restorative sleep.
Tomorrow is another day.
roger gonnet
news:377e6036-3bb1-429f...@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Actually, I think it better to consider the benefits of NOT being
> anonymous, and proceeding to be transparant and clear about one's
> motives for criticizing Scientology.
>
>
> Douglas E. Cowan, new religious movement scholar, stated:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yrglmc
>
>
> "...none of Scientology's most trenchant Internet critics operate
> anonymously; for the most part, they are very clear about who they
> are
> and why they do what they do."
>
>
> - Douglas E Cowan, page 267, "RELIGION ONLINE: Finding Faith on the
> Internet", Routledge, 2004.
>
>
> I urge people post openly with their names!
I agree, moreover so since I'm almost certain that it adds a lot to their
credibility AND their defense if the crime cult leader wants them attacked
etc.
r
R. Hill
> A.r.s., ESMB, and OCMB aren't going to disappear because of this
> (several week long, now) most recent effort to frighten people and
> create confusion, noise, and distraction.
>
> It's NOT going to work.
The confusion part works on me I have to say, I can make little sense
as of now of many things I've read here lately -- "little sense" in
the sense I don't know who is simply truthful and who is not.
But as you say, time pass, and no matter what, Scientology and the
corporate entities which purpose is to promote the doctrine
(stealthily or not) are more and more undressed, and more people are
looking into it, and more exes are adding their accounts to the
archives - *no matter what*.
Ray.
Emma
I refer you back to the letter I sent you 3rd March 2006 telling you
everything. I'm sure you still have it:
" He also made it clear that if I decided not to help him he "knew" all
about me and my past and could make life difficult. After all this was war
and he wasn't pulling any punches."
How convenient that you had fogotten this.
You are also lying about not wanting Gavino to have positive proof. You were
scared shitless that he would sue you for copyright violations because of
your postings as Cerridewn and you didn't want him to have any concrete
evidence.
You were the whole reason we concocted that story! Gavino was about to post
the logs and you were terrified. You wanted to somehow put a stopper in his
show. And If you recall you told everyone about this on IRC and it was only
Kady who thought it was crap to lie. Everyone else thought it was fine
because it protected you.
How can you call me a liar when you are doing this over & over?
Emma
That is utter bullshit and you knew it. I'd already told you the whole story
and knew that you'd passed it around to your friends on IRC. I had nothing
left to hide. I was basically anon and could have just crept away. I stayed
and posted that story to cover your ass.
And this is what I get for it.
Hartley Patterson
> I urge people post openly with their names!
It's not so simple as that.
No, I don't mean 'the only thing you have to fear is fear itself'. I mean
that putting any kind of pressure on people has a drawback - that they
will be accused of making up stories in order to please their new friends.
Looks to be an interesting book. Cowan is less blinkered than some
scholars, but he still makes errors due to not actually bothering to check
his assumptions by talking to the people he's writing about.
--
Hartley Patterson
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk
http://news-from-bree.blogspot.com
roger gonnet
news:5uc1r9F...@mid.individual.net...
I concur (a bit, since I don't have much of the story).
When things go real bad here, that's almost always because the crime
cultists have tried some manoeuvers behind the lines, and playes their third
party games.
It was a bad idea first to open this new forum, I said so - but I repeat.
r
roger gonnet
news:5uc203F...@mid.individual.net...
trying to play third party?
r
roger gonnet
>
> "Patty Pieniadz" <ppie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5ubsvqF...@mid.individual.net...
>> Emma wrote:
>>> "Patty Pieniadz" <ppie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:5uavv4F...@mid.individual.net...
> If there was one way to stop the success of ESMB
esmb is unuseful, whatever others could think. I don't even think that OCMB
should exist. Too much risks for everyone including Andreas.
r
Eldon
> "Patty Pieniadz" <ppieni...@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message denews:5uc1r9F...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote in message
> >news:Hf1gj.184$Xn2...@newsfe05.lga...
>
> >> Isn't it *amazing* how one person can literally change your life?
> >> (I'm referring to Roan helping you SEE things you weren't seeing).
> >> There's a great book called "The Power of ONE", and I cannot
> >> suggest it enough.
>
> > I know you have problems with PG, tory, but don't be so quick
> > to buy Roan's bullshit. Read all the facts, get all the info. Roan
> > is more than likely an OSA op, who Gavino sent in to get back
> > at Emma.
>
> > Remember how OSA works. They are sneaky and have been
> > sending in ops to destroy critics for a long time.
>
> > PG had nothing to do with Roan and Emma's lies and deceit.
>
> I concur (a bit, since I don't have much of the story).
>
> When things go real bad here, that's almost always because the crime
> cultists have tried some manoeuvers behind the lines, and playes their third
> party games.
>
> It was a bad idea first to open this new forum, I said so - but I repeat.
I think you were right, Roger. If nothing else, the dilution factor
would be a good argument. People only have so much time to read
different things, and in this case, I don't know even a small fraction
of the background. Nor do I want to research it.
>
> r
Hartley Patterson
> Let's skip the pain. Lesson learned and all that. Moving right along...
Oh noes, flamewar! Let's just ignore them for a while and chat amongst
ourselves shall we. Er, read any good books lately Peach?
--
FREEDOM is a trademark owned by
Religious Technology Center
http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
Out_Of_The_Dark
> Dave Touretzky wrote:
> > In article <ad40df11-1fae-474d-9d02-28b28f024...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> There you go again........ Now go and PROVE that accusation about the
> >> Emma & the LOGS.
>
> > You can just ask Emma. She makes no secret of it. OSA was
> > blackmailing her at the time.
>
> > -- Dave
>
> Right, Emma was being blackmailed. You tell so many stories, Dave, that
> sooner or later you are going to be tripped up by those same stories.
>
> her 'moral crisis', and why did she not post about her crisis first hand?
>
Ahh. the old Q is back. Glad to see this post of yours. I can't find
anything about that online either. Where did this come from? Did Dave
read Emma's post about it or it heresay?
Lulu Belle
> The writing of this post is one of the most difficult
> things I have ever had to do. Less than 12 hours
> ago I made a promise that I would not write this post.
>
> Not because I was asked not to, but because at
> that time, I didn't think I should. I've changed my
> mind.
>
> I did some soul searching and realized that
> the only way out of this is to tell the truth and
> decided that when faced with uncertainty and doubt,
> tell the truth at all costs. It's the only way I saw
> out of this mess.
>
> in Scn with lying and deceit being an almost
> natural thing made it a bit more difficult. But
> I found myself in the same predicament I had
> when I was in the cult. That is, I was keeping silent
> about some very unethical activities and my
> silence was nothing more than a contribution to
> that unethical behavior.
>
> So I'm blowing the doors off it. People can
> forgive, they can blame, they can say I told you
> so. Honestly, I don't care. What I care about
> is that I can not be part of a lie that has the
> potential to harm a lot of people. I say potential
> as I have no evidence that any harm has
> actually occurred.
>
> This matter concerns Emma, Roan, Andreas
> and myself. Andreas is included only because
> he has been lied to.
>
> close friends. We talked quite a bit and share many
> similar views on things. Having an EX as a girlfriend
> was really nice as we could share in other matters
> as well.
>
> and I liked to do was share info on who we thought was
> who on OCMB and ars. Meaning we wondered what the
> real names of some of the anon posters were on those
> boards. Not because we were going to OUT them or
> anything like that. It was just gossipy stuff and it was
> mainly directed at people that we would get into flame
> wars with.
>
> It was all very teenagerish and should be known that I
> was as much a part of it as Emma was. It wasn't
> something that was done all the time, but occasionally
> we'd get into it and try to figure out who was who.
> I think it's probably pretty natural to want to know
> who people are so you can figure out why
> they hate you so much.
>
> people that encouraged Emma to start a message
> board for Ex's.
>
> Emma and I both felt that OCMB was too hostile a
> place for people just leaving Scn, and it was so bad
> that it would probably chase some of the newly
> leaving people back into the cult.
>
> Anyone who had anything positive to say
> about the cult was attacked and called names.
> Many of the posters on OCMB were completely
> clueless as to how fragile people are when
> the are trying to leave the cult, especially people
> like myself who were in Scn for many many years
> and for people who were in the most oppressive
> part of Scn, i.e., the Sea Org,
>
> Emma created ESMB with the hope that it would be
> a safe place for a newly leaving Scios to meet up
> with old time EX's and get some sane feedback.
> I think she succeed swimmingly. It is a wonderful
> board, but there is something else that needs to
> be known.
>
> on OCMB, named Roan started having a relationship.
> Emma originally hated Roan and thought he was a
> real creep, but then over time they started pming
> each other and they became quite friendly.
>
> but she felt that Roan was misunderstood.
>
> and that he liked to live in the real world but it was
> OK for him to act and be someone else when he
> posted. What Emma was trying to explain to me
> is that Roan is not anything like the person he posts
> as. He's really a very nice guy, he just posts mean
> stuff because he can. But it's not really him.
>
> pretending that they were adversaries on OCMB
> and not let anyone know that they were in fact
> starting a relationship.
>
> red flags, out points, the works, but that I was
> going to let her make her own decisions on things.
>
> want to harp on the situation.
> was just a player and was playing her. I really try not to be
> paranoid and think everyone is OSA but this guy Roan was
> a manipulative guy that got my friend Emma to lie and act
> in an unethical way, that is, pretending to be hostile to a guy
> she actually adored, and he had her do this, because per
> Emma, Roan felt that he would lose credibility with people
> like Arnie Lerma and others over on OCMB if it was
> known that they (Emma and Roan) were friends.
> Per Emma Roan felt that Arnie Lerma and others
> on the OCMB who might cut Roan off if he knew
> he was in a relationship with Emma.
>
> by becoming a moderator on that board.
>
> My gut was doing the watusi, but I trusted Emma to
> handle this the best way and come to her senses
> and apparently, per the above post, she had.
>
> In late Oct 2007 a person named CJK posted a slimy
> post about me on OCMB. I talked to Emma about it and
> Emma told me that CJK was actually the poster named
> Ladybird. Ladybird had been banned by Andreas for
> her failure to follow the rules of OCMB. Andreas had given
> her many chances but she couldn't stop sliming people she
> didn't like, and she did it all anonymously.
>
> How did I know that CJK was Ladybird?
> Because Emma told me that Roan, who is a
> moderator over on OCMB looks at IP addresses
> and told Emma that Ladybird was posting as CJK
> and that Ladybird had several other sock puppets
> including the nickname Antidote, who had also been
> banned by Andreas.
>
> moderator at OCMB and is now sharing IP information with Emma.
>
> and Roan was over and that this was something
> Roan had told Emma in the past. I wrote to
> Andreas and told him that Ladybird was posting
> as CJK and Andreas asked me how I knew that.
>
> read more »
ead more »
I am a very close friend of Emma's.
I know more about her private life than most people.
She is not, and never was, "mining IP addresses".
She has never shared anyone's ESMB IP address.
I know this for a fact.
Her relationships are her personal business. The fact that she and
Roan got together is nothing to be ashamed of.
It might be a good idea if all of us got to know some of our perceived
"enemies".
The world would be a better place.
This newsgroup certainly would be.
It saddens me to see two of my friends going at each other like this.
I have told you both what I think.
So I am going to say it here.
Minton has been gone for - what - 7 years now?
The LMT is long over.
No one gives a flying fuck about The Profit.
It's been old news for years.
These stupid gang wars and fights and allegiances based on things that
are no longer important and things that were NEVER IMPORTANT TO BEGIN
WITH have to end.
END THEM.
GET OVER IT.
MOVE ON.
One of the reasons I feel that ESMB is so important is that it is
NEW.
Newly out people. New stories. New information.
Half of these people have never even heard of Bob Minton or Patricia
Greenway or any of it.
It's refreshing. None of these stupid battles that have been going on
for years.
I told this to Patty privately. I am saying it publicly.
And this is not only directed at her.
Get your own house in order before you start trying to order the house
of another.
Clean up your own messes before you worry about cleaning up anyone
elses.
If you want to "expose lies", start with your own.
Let's really make it a new year and cut out all of this crap.
All of us.
Please.
Lulu Belle
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>People who get their anonymity exposed are NOT going to lose in the
>long run!
Heh. Easy for you (or me) to say, Chuck. But for those who want to
maintain their anonymity, having someone else make the decision for
them as to whether they are outed our not might seem just a bit
intrusive.
>I say people ought to more be identifiable, and speak freely, openly,
>with labels of who they are.
>That is the simplest way to go.
For you and me, maybe.
For others still dealing with connections, the decision should be left
to them and not to some gossiping moderators, conspiring to deceive
ex's, one of whom was passing logs to the cult.
It's kinda chilling, if you really look at it.
Dennis
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>Condemning the leaking of anonymous people's identities is
>overstressed when one looks at the bigger longer range picture.
Since you have always been identified, it may not seem like a big deal
to you. To others who are still cowering in the shadows and making an
effort to come into the light, it probably seems like a huge betrayal.
>The anonymous people outed who then are forcefully disconnected from
>by their Scientology co-workers or family or friends, that is
>unfortunate and life changing.
Easy for you to say. I don't suppose you would want some lying
sliemball to make the decision to be outted for you, would you now?
>What's more important though?
To whom?
Is it yours or anyone else's decision to make for another for the sake
of amusement, their op, or to get back into good standing?
>I think being a normal citizen, and NOT fear telling your views and
>being like normal citizens is the right course.
It might take some people a while to get there. And it should be
their decision whether to post with their real name or to remain
anonymous.
Dontcha think?
Dennis
Patty Pieniadz
>>
>
> If there was one way to stop the success of ESMB & OCMB how would
> someone go about doing that?
>
> Ops on the boards don't work well. That's been proven.
>
> Spam doesn't work. The posts just get deleted.
>
> Probably the only way would be to create enough doubt and enough
> innuendo about the ethics of the owners or moderators that it would
> simply scare people away.
>
> Good job Patty.
>
> I hope you earned some brownie points.
>
> Arnie, you were dead right.
>
> For the record: The only thing I was ever worried about being made
> public was my private life. I feel I have the right to privacy
> outside this critic community.
>
> My previous posts stands and will continue to stand no matter how much
> further drivel you wish to spill.
Wow, this telling the truth stuff really doesn't work for you does it?
Patty
Out_Of_The_Dark
Lulu Belle, again, that took much courage. Thanks for posting it.
I'm sorry for coming down so hard on you when you defended Emma in
the past on the Sten threads. I was not looking further into the
issues with Sten and Emma before before I posted in those threads last
year. I've come to understand why few trust him at at all. There's
always a broader picture filled with facts behind every conflict and
it's important to look at them first.
On a side note, but related to Emma: I have questions about an
accusation made here on this thread, which many of us are trying
understand and see some proof of here. Perhaps you can answer it.
Did Emma ever post here a confession that she was blackmailed by OSA
into giving them IRC logs, as Erlich posted and Dave and others
confirm further up in this thread? No one has produced any proof
Erlich wrote:
"And it wasn't that long ago that Emma was sending IRC logs to OSA, I
just found out."
http://tinyurl.com/2ox8o9
The innuendo and rumor stuff are designed to confuse and that omitted
information is confusing people trying to follow this thread. Any idea
what this is about and if it is true or not. Some facts would be
appreciated.
Out_Of_The_Dark
ok, l see that Magoo posted some inf about it, as she and Emma
discussed it by phone once. Can you look at her post and add to what
you know about this? Can you ask Emma to, as well? I emailed her last
nte but no word back yet. She's probably sleeping :) here's the quote:
Magoo wrote:
"And Emma is a person who turned in the logs of IRC to OSA--- as
recently as last year. She told me this on the phone. She was
"blackmailed"? Blackmail *is* against the law. Let's get into this, if
true. Who asked her to send them? What's the E-mail? What exactly did
they say, re "blackmail"? If you don't want to post it here, Emma,
which I understand, PLEASE talk to the FBI and let them know ALL of
the specifics, as that IS against the law. "
http://tinyurl.com/38q85h
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/dd296b71f7cc7e18?hl=en&
What is this all about? Thanks.
Mary
buffs...@gmail.com
logs being turned over to OSA.
> the specifics, as that IS against the law. "http://tinyurl.com/38q85hhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/dd296b71f...
R. Hill
Not speaking out about the wrongs perpetrated in Scientology's name,
as per Scientology's policies contributes to perpetuate these wrongs.
That's just a fact, and there is *nothing wrong at pointing out at
this fact*. In the end yes, it's a personal choice, as everybody is
different, and everybody's situation is different.
Ray.
Zinj
says...
<snip>
> Wow, this telling the truth stuff really doesn't work for you does it?
>
>
> Patty
good thing there's no Buttersquash, or, people might think that this was
part of a coordinated attack, and, mostly about taking the heat off
Dennis. (As well as punishing the new 'enemy' of course...)
Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think
Patty Pieniadz
"Lulu Belle" <exes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:873035af-61cb-4ef8...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I am a very close friend of Emma's.
>
> I know more about her private life than most people.
>
> She is not, and never was, "mining IP addresses".
>
> She has never shared anyone's ESMB IP address.
>
> I know this for a fact.
>
No you don't. As I've said in my first post. Emma has never
been gossipy about people on her board or their
business. Never.
But less than a month ago we sat on google talk phone
together while she went through IP addresses on ESMB
to try to locate Ladybird.
She knew what town Lady bird lived in because Roan had
told her from the IP logs on Clambake, so she was looking for
IP addresses in that part of the State that LB lived in.
So you don't have all the facts. You only know what Emma
has said to you.
You have very good advice. You have always been very
level headed and you know Emma well. But you don't know
all.
There's a big difference between keeping a secret for
someone and keeping a secret that involves unethical
behavior.
That's what's supposed to be different Scn critics and the
cult.
The cult think is, don't tell on other Scientolgists because
that would Hurt the Road to Total Freedom, it would be
bad PR for the Church. So just keep quiet about it and
lie if necessary.
Another cult think is don't tell about the unethical behavior
of other critics because it would hurt the anti Scn critics and
make them look bad.
Same cultic think. Same insane point of view.
Just because Emma is doing some good for the cause does
not mean she is above being called out and told to smarten up.
She needs to stop blaming others for this and just own up
to it and move on as well.
Patty
Ed
I'm also friends with both Patty P. (a little) and Emma
(more), and I know they were pretty close. Whenever this kind of flap
erupts we would do well to expose the instigators and their motives
rather than taking sides and hurting people.
Anyone who's an ex-Scn would have to agree that the *appearance* looks
fishy--that whether or not it is actually true, it sure *looks* on the
face of it that Roan is an op planted to infiltrate the two message
boards. It looks to me like the Jolie Steckart operating as a fake
Laura Terepin which was an essential part of ruining CAN.
Emma and Roan really need to address this. I would really like to see
Roan present an explanation of his story on a.r.s., and I would expect
him to, whether or not he is an op.
I worry about Emma because she feels very vulnerable because of her
personal situation, enough so that OSA was able to turn her once (the
IRC log incident a year or two ago) even when I know that in her heart
she detests organized Scn and its abuses. Everyone there is has things
in their past that they would like kept private and secret, and anyone
in Scn under DM has had to do many writeups of their overts. There is
so much pressure to keep finding more overts that the past of least
resistance can be to make them up out of thin air. Whether real or
made up, OSA will threaten to use them.
So I worry about Emma and think she is vulnerable and it makes her
especially susceptable to being used and manipulated.
A gree with Lulu and Tory--let's all be friends and still get to the
bottom of whatever security issues there are, and let's identify and
isolate the shit-stirrers.
Ed
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>good thing there's no Buttersquash,
If you wanna know wtf Zinger is talking about, drop over to Undernet
IRC Channel #altreligionscientology and meet the (wdne) gang that
never was.
>or, people might think that this was
>part of a coordinated attack, and, mostly about taking the heat off
>Dennis.
There's heat? Have you got me cornered and cowering in fear? I
hadn't realized.
>(As well as punishing the new 'enemy' of course...)
This isn't about friends and enemies. It's about someone's moral
crisis regarding lies she's helped cover up and now wants to get off
her chest. The fact that she's pointing out some insecurity on two
boards that involve sensitive material to those participants is a
public service.
D
--------------
"And time will tell just who has fell,
And who's been left behind,
When you go your way and I go mine." - B Dylan
Patty Pieniadz
"Zinj" <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.21eadb981...@news-server.woh.rr.com...
> In article <5ucdr4F...@mid.individual.net>, ppie...@gmail.com
> says...
>
> <snip>
>
>> Wow, this telling the truth stuff really doesn't work for you does
>> it?
>>
>>
>> Patty
>
> good thing there's no Buttersquash, or, people might think that this
> was
> part of a coordinated attack, and, mostly about taking the heat off
> Dennis. (As well as punishing the new 'enemy' of course...)
Yes Zinj, it's all a buttersquash conspiracy, led by the evil gypsy
queen.
Patty
rai...@yahoo.com
What she said.
Mick
Patty Pieniadz
"Emma" <emm...@bonbon.net> wrote in message
news:5uc4s0F...@mid.individual.net...> news:5uc3l2F...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Emma" <emm...@bonbon.net> wrote in message
>> news:5uc2jrF...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Emma" <emm...@bonbon.net> wrote in message
>>> news:5uc295F...@mid.individual.net...>>>> news:5uc1keF...@mid.individual.net...>>>>> news:ON%fj.182$Xn2...@newsfe05.lga...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As much as I'd like to just blow this off---it's heavy, very
>>>>>> heavy.
>>>>>> Like I said, I've met Roan--and he IS quite different than the
>>>>>> person who > posts. What's that about? I don't know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why Emma Sent ANY IRC logs to OSA? Blackmail IS against the law:
>>>>>> Will someone please step up to the plate and report this?
>>>>>
>>>>> It was not blackmail. That's just another of Emma's lies to cover
>>>>> her ass. Emma was working for Gavino Idda while on IRC channel.
>>>>> She was passing logs for him and in exchange he
>>>>> was going to take care of her ethics situation and restore her
>>>>> to good standing. The only problem was that Emma became
>>>>> friends with me and realized that that she was betraying me
>>>>> and others on IRC.
>>>>>
>>>>> She confessed it to me after OSA put up my RFW page. She
>>>>> felt completely responsible because she had outed me to
>>>>> Gavino as Cerridwen. She was distraught and completely
>>>>> remorseful. I forgave her as I understand how evil Scn is
>>>>> and how they manipulate people. Emma was a friend, she
>>>>> came to her senses and I forgave her. But then we did the
>>>>> wrong thing. We concocted a lie together to cover her ass
>>>>> and posted it to ars.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/eeb720b15cc29c5d
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lastly, what about PG, the backchannel queen? Why IS it Ok for
>>>>>> she
>>>>>> to slime other critics, when NONE of us get to hear what is said,
>>>>>> and stand up for ourselves? That is soooooooooooooo Scientology!
>>>>>> Do you understand how destructive *that* is? This is a good
>>>>>> start, for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Patricia rarely goes to the IRC channel, I know you think she
>>>>> is the WHO behind all this, because she disrepected you and
>>>>> gave her opinion about you that you feel are lies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roan bad mouthed you also to Emma, who repeated it to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Emma has done it, I've done it. We're all guilty of talking shit
>>>>> about you and others. The only difference is Patricia got logged
>>>>> and posted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure Gavino was really pissed at Emma for betraying him
>>>>> and making him look bad to his seniors. It makes sense to
>>>>> me, having worked in OSA Ops for 14 years that they would
>>>>> send a guy like Roan in to wiggle his way into position of
>>>>> moderator at OCMB and to sweet talk Emma into more
>>>>> lying and deceit. OSA has Emma's folders they know all
>>>>> her buttons. Roan played her like a piano.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope you truly look at this like an onion, just like when we
>>>>>> left
>>>>>> Scientology, and peel it ALL off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. For me it's all about stop the lying. I did too much of
>>>>> that
>>>>> while I was in Scn. If Emma wants to discuss any lies I've told
>>>>> she is free to bring it up. I only hope she also takes
>>>>> responsiblity
>>>>> for covering them up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy New Year Tory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Patty
>>>>>
>>>>>> For me, the onion went like this:
>>>>>> HOLY SHIT: IT'S A CON!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Damn, DM is a dick!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh my Goodness----Hubbard was a dick too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And on, and on, as the lies strip off.
>>>>>> As much as this may hurt some people--in the end,
>>>>>> The truth shall set you free :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My very best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tory/Magoo~~
>>>>>> PS: And if anyone knows what key I pressed that erases the things
>>>>>> below ....please post it here, and thanks!
>>>>
>>>> I lied in that post to cover YOUR ASS. I wanted to come clean but
>>>> you were worried about being outed as Cerridwen.
>>
>> That makes no sense. You had already outed me as Cerridwen. The
>> proof
>> was right there on the RFW site.
>>
>>
>> It wasn't my ass we were trying to
>>>> cover at that stage - it was yours. I was ready to tell the whole
>>>> truth - about everything, but you didn't want to hand Gavino the
>>>> truth. I guess you've gone & done it now.
>>
>> You threatened to out me again on your first reply to me. I decided
>> to just tell the truth, no matter how much it might hurt. You should
>> try
>> it sometimes, it causes a lot of relief.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I would never have lied about that unless you asked me to. You
>>>> could at LEAST tell the truth about that.
>>
>> Heh.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And since when is making threats to reveal your dark dirty past in
>>> the internet *not* blackmail?
>>
>> Oh there were threats? This is a new lie for you. You never told me
>> that.
>> You told me a different story at that time. Something about getting
>> all those Board of Investigations cleaned up and you restored to good
>> standing.
>>
>>>
>>> Thats what I was up against & you know it.
>>
>> You're lying Emma.
>>>
>>> Why the fuck are you doing this?
>>
>> Because I'm sick of being part of your lies. You can't even see it
>> right now.
>> Hopefully some day you will.
>>
>> Drag it all out Emma, I'm willing to admit to any fuck up shit I've
>> done.
>> Are YOU?
>>
>> I guess not. It's all someone's fault and now you are playing to the
>> crowd and trying to blame the evil gypsy queen for your fucking
>> behavior.
>>
>> Knock it off, grow up and fucking stop lying and blaming others for
>> your shit.
>>
>> Patty
>>
>
> I refer you back to the letter I sent you 3rd March 2006 telling you
> everything. I'm sure you still have it:
>
> " He also made it clear that if I decided not to help him he "knew"
> all about me and my past and could make life difficult. After all this
> was war and he wasn't pulling any punches."
>
>
>
> How convenient that you had fogotten this.
I am going to believe you and say that that is something you probably
sent me.
Unlike you I don't keep all these things. I never thought I needed to.
>
>
> You are also lying about not wanting Gavino to have positive proof.
> You were scared shitless that he would sue you for copyright
> violations because of your postings as Cerridewn and you didn't want
> him to have any concrete evidence.
>
>
>
> You were the whole reason we concocted that story! Gavino was about to
> post the logs and you were terrified. You wanted to somehow put a
> stopper in his show. And If you recall you told everyone about this on
> IRC and it was only Kady who thought it was crap to lie. Everyone else
> thought it was fine because it protected you.
That's not how I remember it but you could be right on this point.
I'll tell
you what. I'll admit I was partly wrong on this point and say, ya, we
were BOTH covering our asses.
Will you take any responsibilty at all?
Patty
>
>
>
> How can you call me a liar when you are doing this over & over?
>
>
>
>
Patty Pieniadz
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/eeb720b15cc29c5d
"Out_Of_The_Dark" <xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:79bfd2f5-2860-4400...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Magoo
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dac273d2-4b47-43ee...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 6, 8:53 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
>> "Patty Pieniadz" <ppieni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:5uavv4F...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> > The writing of this post is one of the most difficult
>> > things I have ever had to do. Less than 12 hours
>> > ago I made a promise that I would not write this post.
>>
>> > Not because I was asked not to, but because at
>> > that time, I didn't think I should. I've changed my
>> > mind.
>>
>> > I did some soul searching and realized that
>> > the only way out of this is to tell the truth and
>> > decided that when faced with uncertainty and doubt,
>> > tell the truth at all costs. It's the only way I saw
>> > out of this mess.
>>
>> > It's taken me some time to sort it all out. 30 years
>> > in Scn with lying and deceit being an almost
>> > natural thing made it a bit more difficult. But
>> > I found myself in the same predicament I had
>> > when I was in the cult. That is, I was keeping silent
>> > about some very unethical activities and my
>> > silence was nothing more than a contribution to
>> > that unethical behavior.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > So I'm blowing the doors off it. People can
>> > forgive, they can blame, they can say I told you
>> > so. Honestly, I don't care. What I care about
>> > is that I can not be part of a lie that has the
>> > potential to harm a lot of people. I say potential
>> > as I have no evidence that any harm has
>> > actually occurred.
>>
>> > This matter concerns Emma, Roan, Andreas
>> > and myself. Andreas is included only because
>> > he has been lied to.
>>
>> > Emma and I have been friends for a few years. Very
>> > close friends. We talked quite a bit and share many
>> > similar views on things. Having an EX as a girlfriend
>> > was really nice as we could share in other matters
>> > as well.
>>
>> > Prior to Emma starting her board, one of the things Emma
>> > and I liked to do was share info on who we thought was
>> > who on OCMB and ars. Meaning we wondered what the
>> > real names of some of the anon posters were on those
>> > boards. Not because we were going to OUT them or
>> > anything like that. It was just gossipy stuff and it was
>> > mainly directed at people that we would get into flame
>> > wars with.
>>
>> eh? Thanks for admitting it. Did you make this post over on
>> OCMB? Please do---people need to know this as you're talking
>> about it, here.
>>
>>
>>
>> > It was all very teenagerish and should be known that I
>> > was as much a part of it as Emma was. It wasn't
>> > something that was done all the time, but occasionally
>> > we'd get into it and try to figure out who was who.
>> > I think it's probably pretty natural to want to know
>> > who people are so you can figure out why
>> > they hate you so much.
>>
>> > Anyway, about a year and a half ago I was one of the
>> > people that encouraged Emma to start a message
>> > board for Ex's.
>>
>> > Emma and I both felt that OCMB was too hostile a
>> > place for people just leaving Scn, and it was so bad
>> > that it would probably chase some of the newly
>> > leaving people back into the cult.
>>
>> that it's changed there, quite a bit. (Much of it, because the
>> Flying Monkeys have mostly gone over to Emmas board now).
>> To those here, this probably doesn't make sense, but to we ON
>> OCMB____Yup, it makes great sense.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Anyone who had anything positive to say
>> > about the cult was attacked and called names.
>> > Many of the posters on OCMB were completely
>> > clueless as to how fragile people are when
>> > the are trying to leave the cult, especially people
>> > like myself who were in Scn for many many years
>> > and for people who were in the most oppressive
>> > part of Scn, i.e., the Sea Org,
>>
>> (Mainly, yes! People are sensative, however, you and Emma would show up,
>> run
>> this attack on people, so yes, people would get pissed at you 2).
>>
>>
>>
>> > Emma created ESMB with the hope that it would be
>> > a safe place for a newly leaving Scios to meet up
>> > with old time EX's and get some sane feedback.
>> > I think she succeed swimmingly. It is a wonderful
>> > board, but there is something else that needs to
>> > be known.
>>
>> > About a year and a half ago, Emma and a poster over
>> > on OCMB, named Roan started having a relationship.
>> > Emma originally hated Roan and thought he was a
>> > real creep, but then over time they started pming
>> > each other and they became quite friendly.
>>
>> > Emma knew I thought Roan was a total piece of shit
>> > but she felt that Roan was misunderstood.
>>
>> > She explained to me that Roan managed a theater
>> > and that he liked to live in the real world but it was
>> > OK for him to act and be someone else when he
>> > posted. What Emma was trying to explain to me
>> > is that Roan is not anything like the person he posts
>> > as. He's really a very nice guy, he just posts mean
>> > stuff because he can. But it's not really him.
>>
>> HE *is* quite different in person than his posting persona.
>> So much so, that I often forget "Roan" Is the person he is.
>>
>>
>>
>> > He pretends and he wanted Emma to continue
>> > pretending that they were adversaries on OCMB
>> > and not let anyone know that they were in fact
>> > starting a relationship.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Lesson number 1: Never stay in a friendship
>> > where that person has to hide your existance
>> > or even keep up the charade that they dislike
>> > you just because of their friends prejudice.
>>
>>
>> ly a number of things happened that
>>
>> > caused alarm bells to ring in my head. Well actually
>> > there were warning signs from day one that I
>> > conveniently ignored but that's beside the point.
>> > I began to realise that my initial feeling about
>> > this person might actually have been correct
>> > and I had been swayed by charm, wit and a
>> > good ear (the EASIEST way to get a chick
>> > by the way). I began to notice discrepancies
>> > and inconsistancies and above all, the hypocrisy.
>> > I began to feel in my gut that uneasy feeling but
>> > I ignored it because it meant I would have to face
>> > up to the fact that I'd been conned (again!).
>>
>>
>> Lesson number 2: Never ignore your gut
>>
>>
>>
>> > In the last few days came the final straw.
>> > Finally the camels back was broken and my
>> > eyes were opened. I have had to admit to myself
>> > that I've been a fool and wasted a lot of time,
>> > effort and energy on this person
>> > who doesn't really give a hoot about me.
>>
>> I'm not sure why, but as I type, things below are erasing: DOH!
>>
>> ok?
>>
>> > I'm here for you if you need me. I'm glad you've
>> > made this decision"
>>
>> > Lesson number 3: Cherish your real friends
>>
>> > So I want to devote this thread to everyone who has
>> > been a real friend to someone else. You never
>> > know how much it is appreciated. Even though
>> > your buddies might screw up from time to time,
>> > real friends will continue to love them anyway,
>> > even when they are being ridiculously dumb.
>> > Like me!
>>
>> > about people's IP addresses. I did not tell him the
>> > information came from Emma. I thought at the time
>> > that I should protect her.
>>
>> > Andreas then confronted Roan and asked him
>> > if this were true.
>>
>> > Roan, a man with no moral compass denied doing it
>> > and Andreas chose to believe him.
>>
>> > I then had a bit of a moral breakdown myself.
>> > I had broken a trust with my friend Emma,
>> > but I was also now aware that Roan and Emma
>> > discussed IP addresses of people. I realized
>> > that I too had been involved in these kinds of
>> > discussions with Emma and never told her NO,
>> > don't do that. It should be noted that Emma
>> > never gossiped to me about people on her board.
>> > She kept in her security and integrity on this,
>> > but she did go through her logs on occasion
>> > looking for people to get clues on their ID,
>> > especially if they were unfriendly.
>>
>> > I was very upset and my head was swimming with what to do.
>> > I contacted Emma and found out that she had deleted
>> > the post made above and that Roan had not seen it.
>> > She told me it was all a mistake and that Roan
>> > was a good guy and that if I could only talk to him,
>> > I would understand because when Roan explained it,
>> > it all made so much sense as to why it was OK
>> > for him to lie and pretend to be someone he was not.
>>
>> > My moral dilemma was do I now blow this open and break
>> > ties with my good friend Emma who has been manipulated
>> > and duped by Roan, or do I just keep quiet and make
>> > peace with Emma and try to get her to see what is going
>> > on here.
>>
>> > I made another mistake. I went to Emma and
>> > apologized and said I should have discussed the
>> > matter with her first. But in doing so, I came to
>> > realize that I was deeply involved in covering up
>> > something that should be made known.
>>
>> > OCMB and ESMB are not Message boards about
>> > potty training or growing geraniums. People should
>> > be able to go to either board and know with certainty
>> > that their identity is protected.
>>
>> > To find out that a questionable character like Roan,
>> > who's story is that he was in Scn for 2 years,
>> > 25 years ago, who shows up out of no where, and
>> > gets himself in a position of moderator or
>> > OCMB and then starts a relationship with the
>> > owner of ESMB and starts sharing IP data with
>> > her scared the shit out of me.
>>
>> And Emma is a person who turned in the logs of IRC to OSA---
>> as recently as last year. She told me this on the phone.
>> She was "blackmailed"? Blackmail *is* against the law. Let's get into
>> this, if true. Who asked her to send them? What's the E-mail?
>> What exactly did they say, re "blackmail"? If you don't want to
>> post it here, Emma, which I understand, PLEASE talk to the FBI
>> and let them know ALL of the specifics, as that IS against the law.
>>
>>
>> I think I figured it out, after---but in the meantime, any time I typed
>> here- things below me would erase. Sorry.
>>
>> n my mind. Both boards are truly
>>
>> > needed and have helped many people.
>> > But currently the lies and obfuscation going
>> > on needs to stop. The games need to end.
>>
>> > People need to be able to go to those boards anonymously
>> > and be protected from gossip and IP mining, even the
>> > people we dislike and disagree with.
>>
>> > Scn does a lot of damage to people. The last thing we need
>> > is people like Roan fucking with them by pretending to be something
>> > he's
>> > not and lie and manipulating people
>> > for some game that he is playing. I'm not saying Roan
>> > is OSA. I'm not saying he's not OSA. But this story stinks
>> > and I no longer want to protect or cover up the lies and
>> > deceit I know about.
>>
>> > If Emma or Roan(who I've never talked to) would like to
>> > discuss some of my "overts" or anything I have done
>> > to endanger people or betray the trust of others,
>> > then go right ahead. Being a scientology critic does in fact
>> > require keeping secrets, but secrets shouldn't be kept
>> > about unethical behavior. It also requires an integrity
>> > of not betraying people we are trying to help. It requires
>> > not sharing private information from Message Board logs
>> > with others, no matter how much you trust them, but especially
>> > to a manipulative guy like Roan.
>>
>> Or Emma---who sent the logs to OSA!
>>
>> y taken it's toll on me.
>>
>> > This has been a horrible experience for me. But then
>> > again, it's good because I was able to muster up the
>> > courage and tell the truth about a very bad situation.
>>
>> > I'm sure I'm going to suffer through some more pain
>> > on this one. But hey, such is life.
>>
>> > Patty
>>
>> As much as I'd like to just blow this off---it's heavy, very heavy.
>> Like I said, I've met Roan--and he IS quite different than the person who
>> posts. What's that about? I don't know.
>>
>> Why Emma Sent ANY IRC logs to OSA? Blackmail IS against the law:
>> Will someone please step up to the plate and report this?
>>
>> to slime other critics, when NONE of us get to hear what is said, and
>> stand
>> up for ourselves? That is soooooooooooooo Scientology! Do you understand
>> how
>> destructive *that* is? This is a good start, for sure.
>>
>> Scientology, and peel it ALL off.
>>
>> HOLY SHIT: IT'S A CON!!!
>>
>> Damn, DM is a dick!
>>
>> Oh my Goodness----Hubbard was a dick too.
>>
>> And on, and on, as the lies strip off.
>> As much as this may hurt some people--in the end,
>> The truth shall set you free :)
>>
>> My very best,
>>
>> Tory/Magoo~~
>> PS: And if anyone knows what key I pressed that erases the things
>> below ....please post it here, and thanks!
>
> sure where it is on your keyboard, though.
Thanks, Eldon---I think that was it.
Best,
T
Patty Pieniadz
>
>
>>
>
> If there was one way to stop the success of ESMB & OCMB how would
> someone go about doing that?
>
> Ops on the boards don't work well. That's been proven.
>
> Spam doesn't work. The posts just get deleted.
>
> Probably the only way would be to create enough doubt and enough
> innuendo about the ethics of the owners or moderators that it would
> simply scare people away.
>
> Good job Patty.
>
> I hope you earned some brownie points.
>
> Arnie, you were dead right.
You are simply shameless. It's known that Arnie and
I don't get along at all. We view things very differently.
But for you to put on this little act and try to cuddle up
to Arnie after everything is just so very transparent on
your part.
My guess is that you sidled up to Arnie because
you suspected the shit was about to hit the fan.
I may not agree with Arnie, but he's not a fool
when it comes to this kind of stuff.
>
> For the record: The only thing I was ever worried about being made
> public was my private life. I feel I have the right to privacy outside
> this critic community.
>
> My previous posts stands and will continue to stand no matter how much
> further drivel you wish to spill.
>
Unethical behavior has no right to privacy especially when that
behavior has a great potential to effects the lives of people and
their lives could be destroyed by Scn if their identities were know.
OCMB and ESMB are not part of your private life. They are part of
your public life. If you choose to entangle the two, that's not my
fault.
Just admit you fucked up and get over it.
Patty
>
>
>
>
>
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
Patty Pieniadz wrote:
>
> In Feb of 2007 there was a vicious attack on me by
> a poster named Ladybird. The attack came
> the same day as my sister Wendy died. Emma
> went ballistic and attempted to convince Arnie to
> have the hateful post removed from his board before
> I got to see it. Arnie refused. It kind of surprised me
> that Arnie did this as he was always posting about how
> certain people didn't have any compassion, and here
> he was refusing to allow the post to be removed.
> Emma begged him but he refused.
>
ABOVE IS A COVERT STATEMENT DESIGNED TO LEAD THE
READER TO A FALSE CONCLUSION. IT WAS THE USE OF SUCH
TECHNIQUES THAT INFURIATED LADYBIRD TO SUCH A
HURTFUL DEGREE THAT SHE NO LONGER BELIEVED
A THING YOU SAY
THE TRUTH, not the dirffernece between what I did and
what was claimed and implied above
I called ladybird and asked her to temper her words.
She agreed to do this and edited her posting.
there was no need to delete it.
I detest twisters of truth
I called ladybird and asked her to temper her words.
She agreed to do this and edited her posting.
there was no need to delete it.
Ladybird detests those that twist the truth
I called ladybird and asked her to temper her words.
She agreed to do this and edited her posting.
there was no need to delete it.
Magoo
> On Jan 6, 2:24 pm, "Patty Pieniadz" <ppieni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Emma" <emmm...@bonbon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:5uc295F...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>>>> >news:5uc1keF...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> > I lied in that post to cover YOUR ASS. I wanted to come clean but you
>> > trying to cover at that stage - it was yours. I was ready to tell the
>> > whole truth - about everything, but you didn't want to hand Gavino the
>> > truth. I guess you've gone & done it now.
>>
>> > at LEAST tell the truth about that.
>>
>> the post
>> it was your words, I agreed to it. Neither of us wanted to be outed.
>>
>> I didn't want to be outed as Cerridwen, but really already had been
>> because
>> of your actions, and you didn't want to be outed as the OSA dupe that
>> you were.
>>
>> We both lied. Take some responsiblity for crying out loud and stop
>> blaming
>> everyone else.
>>
>> Patty
>>
> Patty and Emma,
>
> May I suggest that this catfight is sounding... well, a little bit
> hysterical, paranoid and redundant? Why don't you both take some nice
> psych meds, magnesium and B-complex? Then have a nice cup of Chamomile
> tea and get some restorative sleep.
>
> Tomorrow is another day.
LOL---Sorry, but that's too funny. I think it's a littttttttttle
too late for "tea and restorative sleep" eldon, but would have been
a good idea, yesterday.
The horses are out of the barn, and there are too few ranglers
to round up these puppies. We'll just have to let these girls run it off,
and hey----it's educational, ya gotta admit that.
Gavino---you NEVER cease to amaze me the depths of creepieness
you'll go through. AFTER 7 Y E A R S, don't you get you are NOT
going to "Win" at this, doing it this way?
Even with 2 major critics yapping about their personal lives, the VAST
majority of us knows *somehow* you and your creepy assed-non-religious gang
of fools is working the crowd, one way or the other.
ALL that does is make people like me, do more.
Happy New Year---and Cream Sodas for ALL :)
The TC book is soon to be out, and a few more goodies, too.
Tory/Magoo~~~
Magoo
"Out_Of_The_Dark" <xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:79bfd2f5-2860-4400...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Mary
I'd like to know, too. How Did all this come about, re you sending IRC
logs to Gavino? Patty says it's not true re the "blackmail".
Ya sure? They must have said something that scared you----
there are laws about such things, and I think you need to explain it all,
for your sake, as well as to expose C of S/OSA for their creepy actions.
Tory/Magoo~~~
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Patty Pieniadz wrote:
And if this claim is an example of the
'meat' in your thread, I am off it.
get help
Out_Of_The_Dark
She also wrote an apology in Nov 2007. I saw this recently and was
glad to see it because I thought one was needed .I never commented
about the original posts on that thread it because the timing was
inappropriate . I posted my sympathies to Patty here on ARS. But I was
glad to se that Ladybird stepped up to the plate with this:
Message
Ladybird
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 37
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject: Pity Party for
Patty P
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Added in edit 11/15/07: I apologized at the time for writing this post
further down in this thread, but left the thread here because of the
many posts Emma/Tigger and others wrote cut and pasting selected
quotes all over the net and calling me the "vilest person to ever walk
the face of the earth" among other things.
What I wrote was written in anger over viscious attacks that same
group of people had made against critics like Arnie, Tom, LMT staff
and others who got donations to fight the cult, and I felt and feel it
was not only inappropriate to solicit funds for personal expenses, it
was pretty hypocritical. I am and was sorry for writing it the way I
did, as I did not know Wendy had died that day.
I would take it back if I could, but as I told Arnie at the time, by
that time it was already cut and pasted all over, so I thought it best
to leave it intact so at least the original would not be able to be
altered.
I apologise to Patty for writing it the day her sister died, and for
writing it in such a mean way.
I am sorry.
Sincerely, Ladybird
http://tinyurl.com/2c2doe
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=1458&highlight=&sid=4848b4520ec78ae54b470d0a8f5808b0#1458
Out_Of_The_Dark
> "Out_Of_The_Dark" <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> ok, l see that Magoo posted some inf about it, as she and Emma
> discussed it by phone once. Can you look at her post and add to what
> you know about this? Can you ask Emma to, as well? I emailed her last
> nte but no word back yet. She's probably sleeping :) here's the quote:
>
> Magoo wrote:
>
> "And Emma is a person who turned in the logs of IRC to OSA--- as
> recently as last year. She told me this on the phone. She was
> "blackmailed"? Blackmail *is* against the law. Let's get into this, if
> true. Who asked her to send them? What's the E-mail? What exactly did
> they say, re "blackmail"? If you don't want to post it here, Emma,
> which I understand, PLEASE talk to the FBI and let them know ALL of
>
> What is this all about? Thanks.
>
> Mary
>
> I'd like to know, too. How Did all this come about, re you sending IRC
> logs to Gavino? Patty says it's not true re the "blackmail".
> Ya sure? They must have said something that scared you----
> there are laws about such things, and I think you need to explain it all,
> for your sake, as well as to expose C of S/OSA for their creepy actions.
>
> Tory/Magoo~~~ < <
Magoo, buffsci...@gmail.com and PattyP posted the link to Emma's story
for me, which she posted as Emmma. Not sure when it occurred last but
2004 is when they contacted her. It's a sad and not untypical
situation she was in but her remorse is evident. There is much info in
this post and comparing it to the current situation with PattyP is
quite revealing.
Here's the link:
Message from discussion Fun and Games - To Gavino Idda
Emmma View profile
More options Mar 10 2006, 9:21 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "Emmma" <ga...@moregames.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:21:18 +1100
Local: Fri, Mar 10 2006 9:21 am
Subject: Fun and Games - To Gavino Idda
http://tinyurl.com/ynqaep
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_frm/thread/ff10056a02a77163/103e659e3a99dbd5?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=irc+logs+emmma#103e659e3a99dbd5
Mary McConnell
http://free-from/scientology.blogspot.com
Rev Dennis L Erlich
arn.
Zinj
says...
<snip>
> Will you take any responsibilty at all?
>
> Patty
Care to explain why your 'crisis of conscience'/moral crisis/KR needed
to be aired *now*?
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
> "Patty Pieniadz" <ppieni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>
> And this is what I get for it.
Exactly. you got tricked just like they tricked bob!
this happens to be the same plan that was used to destroy the lisa
case.
"Bring enough pressure to bear on a matter of noconsequence that the
target is tricked into believeing that they have to lie"
This is in a couple of Evaluations on how to handle the e Goodrich
case by scientology.. it is Standard operating procedure for
scientology..
This is on Gerry s site... buried in one of those 'Evals" to handle
litigation..
Trick the person into lying
THEN they use THAT LIE or lies to hang you.
The only way to survive against the machinery of manipulation crafted
by
Gerling? Gerhling? Hitler's psychological operatins man... is to only
deal in the truth.
When ' the trick you to lie' routine worked on bob, he called me
and told me he was going to have to recant.
I told him, okay, old freind, fellow warrior, you fell for their trap
due to hubris..
Under Florida criminal statutes, he could be convicted for criminal
perjury which is a felony.
If convicted of felony he could no longer work as an investment
banker.
He had been 'retired' he now would have to back to work.
Due to his financial losses and costs dealing with scintology and
getting conned
out of his money by fast talking, slick, con men. IMO
he had no choice but to do a recant affidavit.
He had to be able to go back to work. Because of the losses
and an evil telephone call to his wife who moved everything out
of their joint account... he was crying.. as he realized he had to
announce that his improbable dream, the LMT, would have to close.
That testimony was choreographed to bring doubt on his recant
is unfortunate.. and burns my soul to this day.....
That parties taunted him in an effort to force him to suicide burns me
even deeper.
A dead man tells no tales..
At that time, I told my friend, the most honorable man I knew, that I
would stand behind
him and walk with him through the valley of evil until he made it to
the other side
as long as he told Gods Truth from now on. And he made me that
promise. And he kept it.
Robert Minton was unlike any man I know in this war.
There was one HUGE difference between him
and all who had come before.
Robert Minton had something to lose!
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
The mentally ill and entranced sometimes notice what is repeated
Tom Klemesrud
> Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>good thing there's no Buttersquash,
>
>
> If you wanna know wtf Zinger is talking about, drop over to Undernet
> IRC Channel #altreligionscientology and meet the (wdne) gang that
> never was.
>
>
>>or, people might think that this was
>>part of a coordinated attack, and, mostly about taking the heat off
>>Dennis.
>
>
> There's heat? Have you got me cornered and cowering in fear? I
> hadn't realized.
>
>
>>(As well as punishing the new 'enemy' of course...)
>
>
> This isn't about friends and enemies. It's about someone's moral
> crisis regarding lies she's helped cover up and now wants to get off
> her chest. The fact that she's pointing out some insecurity on two
> boards that involve sensitive material to those participants is a
> public service.
Or, that is what you would like to fob it off as...
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
<ale...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 6, 2:09 pm, Rev Dennis L Erlich <infor...@informer.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Oops. Something's got them ol' gears slippin again. Nappie time,
> > arn.
> The mentally ill OR entranced sometimes notice what is repeated
and = or
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 10 years!
the fone call to bobs wife was something like
"Bob and stacy slept in your bed last night"
I dont believe 'slept' is the word they actually used though...i cant
bring myself to type it
"Its bogus claims to believe in prayer and other aspects of a creed
based on a divine being, were " no more than a mockery of religion.
Scientology as practiced is in reality the antithesis of a religion"
Supreme Court Justice Crockett - Australia 1980
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/whatjudgessay.htm
Arnie Lerma
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
http://www.Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK
for our friends and family
to get them out of scientology
before they end up here:
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Magoo
"Rev Dennis L Erlich" <info...@informer.org> wrote in message
news:s102o3pn2k65i1okk...@4ax.com...
> "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckb...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>People who get their anonymity exposed are NOT going to lose in the
>>long run!
>
> Heh. Easy for you (or me) to say, Chuck. But for those who want to
> maintain their anonymity, having someone else make the decision for
> them as to whether they are outed our not might seem just a bit
> intrusive.
>
>>I say people ought to more be identifiable, and speak freely, openly,
>>with labels of who they are.
>>That is the simplest way to go.
>
> For you and me, maybe.
>
> For others still dealing with connections, the decision should be left
> to them and not to some gossiping moderators, conspiring to deceive
> ex's, one of whom was passing logs to the cult.
>
> It's kinda chilling, if you really look at it.
>
> Dennis
"kinda chilling"??? It's chilling to the bone, when people REALLY understand
how deep this shit (Scientology/OSA Ops) goes, and how
furiously they'll cut off loved ones, IF they don't go along with the
program.
Let me tell you all a little story, that just occurred this past year, as an
example. It's Sunday, and this is MY Sunday Service:
Ok, so there once was a lady from New Jersey (Location made up
to protect the innocent, from this so-called "Religion"/Scientology--the
mafia-like CULT).
She got a piece of mail saying this group could increase her and her
husband's sales of their business. It was a W.I.S.E. brochure---from some
local business out of Clearwater, Florida.
The lady talked her husband into going to a seminar there.
Once they arrived, both were asked to do "interviews",starting
Saturday morning.
In her interview, they asked her what she thought about Scientology?
She said she wasn't interested in Scientology in so many words.
At that point, they kept her away from her husband for most of the day.
He did 8 different interviews with them.
They did their seminar--but in between, he was in and out of interviews.
They had arrived on Friday night.
They'd been married for 20 years.
By Sunday night, her husband came out of his last "interview"
and gave her an ultimatum:
"Either you join Scientology, or this marriage is OVER".
She called me hysterical: "How could this happen, Tory? HOW?"
It was even shocking to me, that so quickly Scientology could flip
a marriage---and turn a man against his wife.
People have to think, before they go public. These people are VERY nasty
people. If you're willing to give up your family and/or loved ones---then do
it. If you're not, then take it slower, and see if you can't help them wake
up, too.
It's a bit like lending money. My friend once told me, years ago, her policy
re lending money (Esp. To Scientologists: Who RARELY Pay it back): IF you're
going to lend money, only do so considering you're
giving it away. That way there's no upset, if they don't pay you back."
It's similar re going public: IF You're willing to truly LOSE your husband
or wife, or children---and think about this hard, not the "It won't happen
to US", as it very well may---then yes, go public.
IF you're not---take it slower, read "Captive Hearts, Captive Minds".
Read Steve Hassan's book: "Releasing the bonds". Study up and TRY to help
get them out,too.
Then---if it's TOTALLY Hopeless, then make your choice.
Even then, if it involves kids, I'd say lay low---until they're of age.
You had them, they need you, don't let Scientology ruin your life.
It's YOUR life---make sure you do what you want with it!
Happy Sunday, one and all :)
Tory/Magoo~~
Burbank, CA
(818) 588-3044
Magoo
http://tinyurl.com/ynqaep
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_frm/thread/ff10056a02a77163/103e659e3a99dbd5?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=irc+logs+emmma#103e659e3a99dbd5
Mary McConnell
http://free-from/scientology.blogspot.com
Thanks, Mary---
NNYs
Tory/Magoo~~
Magoo
> Oops. Something's got them ol' gears slippin again. Nappie time,
> arn.
ROTFLOL! You are tooooooooooooo funny.
Actually, I think he meant it that way, but he'll confirm it one way,
or the other. Either way, your comment made me laugh:Thanks :)
T
cultxpt
Wow, that last sentence pisses me off. You've just denegrated all the
other critics because they weren't as rich as Bob. Sheesh.
How about those who had families to lose? Or jobs? Or homes? Friends?
Even freedom, as in Paulette Cooper's case? But Bob had MONEY to
lose, so he's special. Sick.
Rev Dennis L Erlich
>Tell me WHO have been "ruined" by being "outed?"
We are not going to know the full extent of the security breach's
damage or who's been hurt by it until the dust settles from Patty's
revelation.
And maybe not even then.
D
-----------------
"The Rock You Stood Upon
Is Broken Up And Gone
Hey Baby, Who's Your Baby Now
On The Slipway Of Your Dream
Stands Someone Else's Scheme
Hey Baby, Who's Your Baby Now" - Mark Knopfler
Out_Of_The_Dark
> Zinj <zinji...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >good thing there's no Buttersquash,
>
> If you wanna know wtf Zinger is talking about, drop over to Undernet
> IRC Channel #altreligionscientology and meet the (wdne) gang that
> never was.
>
> >or, people might think that this was
> >part of a coordinated attack, and, mostly about taking the heat off
> >Dennis.
>
> There's heat? Have you got me cornered and cowering in fear? I
> hadn't realized.
>
> >(As well as punishing the new 'enemy' of course...)
>
> This isn't about friends and enemies. It's about someone's moral
> crisis regarding lies she's helped cover up and now wants to get off
> her chest. The fact that she's pointing out some insecurity on two
> boards that involve sensitive material to those participants is a
> public service. < <
You know something, that is absolute baloney about "sensitive'
information.
IP addresses are not identifiers of a person so they are not as
sensitive as you are making them out to be. They show a general
location, like a county or large city, which may or may not even be
where a person lives. They do not tell anyone anything beyond that,
unless the IP address is a fake like in remailer fake.
I look at poster IP addresses all the time. I do it to know if the
person is using a remailer or just to know the general area where a
person is from.
For example, you use a highly anon remailer
http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/172.16.34.12
with the supposed originating ip 66.74.14.124 which is the supposed
Location: United States [City: Canoga Park, California]
Patty P uses one, too.
You two are who you claim to be by real names but you use remailers.
I could see a person using a remailer fake IP address so they won't
get caught by OSA posting stuff that could get them in trouble, and I
could see one who is alreadybeing persued by CoS taking the extra
precaution but usually those using the fake IP remailer addresses are
spammes or OSA goons. Corect me if I am wrong but I don't think there
are any other reasons unless they are misguided.
So, the seriousness of the accusation, theoretically, that Emma was
looking over and even sharing IP addresses with this Roan guy ( and I
don't claim to know anything about her and those allegations Patty P
made except that I doubt Andreas would have Roan as his moderator if
it was neferious) is weird at best.
I am only a novice.
IP 101: All About IP Addresses
http://www.networkcomputing.com/netdesign/ip101.html
Where is Ron Sharp when I need him? :)